Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / R. Kelly victim reveals her life behind mansion walls with R. Kelly as his lawyer fights back

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R. Kelly victim reveals her life behind mansion walls with R. Kelly as his lawyer fights back · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: go to crime stops here dot com Crime stories with
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  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges.
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  Speaker 1: The charges they filed against him were not statutory rape charges.
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  Speaker 1: They filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but
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  Speaker 1: is easier to prove if you cannot hint it down
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  Speaker 1: to a specific date. There was no date on the table.
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  Speaker 1: What about the child? He ultimately has to face the
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  Speaker 1: charges in the Chicago courtroom. He pleads not guilty and
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: post his bail and he's released after R Kelly please
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  Speaker 1: not guilty. He goes straight to a South Side church.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: He goes straight to an event where he is admired
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  Speaker 1: by young children. Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly
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  Speaker 1: having sexual underage girl, and ministers, civil rights leaders in
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  Speaker 1: the city Chicago wanted to play up the side of
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  Speaker 1: him that did the I believe I can fuck, and
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  Speaker 1: not the side of him with the ronte lyrics that
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  Speaker 1: kind of went along with possibly having sex with the
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  Speaker 1: underage girl. And it really speaks to the duplicity of
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  Speaker 1: R Kelly. Kelly posted bail and was allowed to continue
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  Speaker 1: to you know, travel during the legal fight that he
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  Speaker 1: was facing. There's no surprise that he continued business as usual.
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  Speaker 1: That is from the hit documentary on Lifetime, Surviving R. Kelly.
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  Speaker 1: But it's not just a TV movie. This is for real.
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  Speaker 1: But why isn't R. Kelly the Musical Superstar behind bars?
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: being with us. And yes, I know he is presumed
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  Speaker 1: in a son until proven guilty, but this is overwhelming
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  Speaker 1: and with me right now is a very special guest,
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  Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen and her recounting her time with R.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly the Musical Superstar nearly broke my heart and I'm
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  Speaker 1: not quite sure why cops and prosecutors aren't making a
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: move on R. Kelly. Listen. Tracy Sampson tells Dateline she
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: was a sixteen year old Internet epic records when she
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: met Kelly and they had a sexual relationship. I was
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  Speaker 1: extremely uncomfortable. I wasn't sexually active. It just didn't feel right.
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  Speaker 1: Kelly denied having sex with Samson, but settled out of
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: court for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. How did
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: you get his DNA after he had a spit on me?
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  Speaker 1: I wiped it off, so you collected thee with my
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: T shirt. Gironda says. The shirts also has Kelly's semen
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  Speaker 1: on it. This almost sounds like Montica Lewinsky. It's like
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: the blue dress, but it's the white T shirt. Oh,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: it was a blue T shirt. Listen to Lisa Van
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  Speaker 1: Allen as she explains how she got involved with R. Kelly.
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  Speaker 1: I met him in nineteen ninety eight at the Home
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  Speaker 1: Alone video shoot. I actually went with a friend of
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: mine's girlfriend. She was an extra and I went with
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  Speaker 1: her and I was an extra as well, and he
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  Speaker 1: actually had his cousin come up to me and that
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  Speaker 1: he wanted to meet me. I wasn't sure who he
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  Speaker 1: was when he told me. He said, Rob wants to
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  Speaker 1: meet you. And I was asking who Rob was, and
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: he said R Kelly. So I went over to him.
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  Speaker 1: I was, you know, surprised, because I was only seventeen
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  Speaker 1: years old, so I didn't expect to meet him. There
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  Speaker 1: were tons of grown women, bear strippers and other you
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  Speaker 1: know things like that that he could have been interested
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  Speaker 1: in meeting. But he picked out the youngest girl in
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  Speaker 1: the crowd and I went to remit him, and he
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  Speaker 1: asked me how old I was, and I told him
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  Speaker 1: I was seventeen. His first question what his second question was,
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  Speaker 1: will your mother let you come to Chicago? Lisa? Was
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  Speaker 1: this before or after he was tried on that video
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  Speaker 1: with the fourteen year old girl? Before listen when we
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  Speaker 1: first started having sex. Rob was behind the camera and
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  Speaker 1: I started popping the tapes in to see what was
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: on them. But I came across the one with meet
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  Speaker 1: him and the fourteen year old bootleg cop is the
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  Speaker 1: tape start showing up around the country. This is the
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  Speaker 1: one that makes it almost impossible for people to pretend
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  Speaker 1: that they did not know that this person had a
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  Speaker 1: thing for little girls. Chicago sometimes contacted me to view
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  Speaker 1: tapes that possibly had girls on it that I may
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  Speaker 1: have known. That was her, my niece for sure, and
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: that was him. Police are investigating a video allegedly showing
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  Speaker 1: the R and B singer having sex with a fourteen
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  Speaker 1: year old girl. Chicago Police Department is currently seeking to
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  Speaker 1: arrest mister Kelly. So, Lisa Van Allen, R. Kelly comes
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  Speaker 1: up to you, amongst all the strippers and the women
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  Speaker 1: ground women, he picks out a skinny little girl and
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  Speaker 1: then what happens says how old are you? Then what happens?
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  Speaker 1: And will your mom will let you come to my town? Right?
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  Speaker 1: And then I mean, of course he knows I'm not
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  Speaker 1: going to ask my mother at a video shoot, and
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  Speaker 1: there's no we didn't have cell phones, you know that.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm like, now, so I'm assuming he asked that
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  Speaker 1: question just to see if I would agree to come
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  Speaker 1: pretty much, you know what I mean? So, um, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: So after that, then, um, so what did you What
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  Speaker 1: did you say? But yeah, I said, yess, my mother
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  Speaker 1: would allow me to come, but of course I didn't
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  Speaker 1: ask her, you get what I mean? And that started it. Listen.
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  Speaker 1: R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. The charges
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. They
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but is
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: easier to prove if you cannot hint it down to
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: a specific date. There was no date on the table.
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  Speaker 1: What about the He ultimately had to face the charges
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  Speaker 1: in a Chicago courtroom. He please not guilty and post
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  Speaker 1: his bail and he's released. After R Kelly please not guilty,
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  Speaker 1: he goes straight to a South Side church. He goes
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  Speaker 1: straight to an event where he is admired by young children.
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  Speaker 1: Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly having sexual underage
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  Speaker 1: girl and ministers, civil rights leaders in the City Chicago
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  Speaker 1: wanted to play up the side of him that did
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  Speaker 1: the I believe I can fuck, and not the side
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  Speaker 1: of him with the runty lyrics that kind of went
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: along with possibly having sex with the underage girl. You
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: are hearing from Surviving R Kelly on Lifetime. As we
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  Speaker 1: all know, the supers musical superstar R Kelly was arrested
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  Speaker 1: on child porn charges for making that grainy video with
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  Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl in a sex act. And
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: in the video you can clearly see a mole on
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  Speaker 1: the back of R Kelly's back, which is the mall
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  Speaker 1: on his back. But the girl would refuse to admit
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  Speaker 1: that it was her, so the state ran up against
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  Speaker 1: rock in a hard spot because they couldn't definitely prove
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  Speaker 1: it was her. But Lisa Van Allen is with me
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  Speaker 1: who lived with R Kelly, who I believe is one
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  Speaker 1: of his victims. Lisa van Allen, do you believe the
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  Speaker 1: girl was fourteen years old and that porn type? I
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  Speaker 1: know she was fourteen because we actually had a you know,
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  Speaker 1: a threesome with her, and at the time he told
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  Speaker 1: me she was sixteen years old. I later found out
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  Speaker 1: that she was two years younger than that. So because
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  Speaker 1: we were headed to one of his video shoots. On
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  Speaker 1: the way there, she told me that she was going
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  Speaker 1: to beginning a PC cruiser for her sixteenth birthday. By
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  Speaker 1: me doing the math, you know of how long ago
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  Speaker 1: the first encounter was, it was two years prior to that.
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  Speaker 1: So if you're just about the term sixteen in a
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  Speaker 1: few weeks, then that would have made you fourteen when
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  Speaker 1: we effect you want to encounter. About a year later,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: after R. Kelly was arrested on the twenty one counts,
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  Speaker 1: he was arrested again. He was in Miami and it
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  Speaker 1: was on additional porn charges. We seized at that time
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  Speaker 1: camera equipment and twelve digital photos which we believed to
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  Speaker 1: the child pornography. You understand that anything you say, Jenna,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: maybe us again. I remember being at my brother and
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  Speaker 1: sister in law's house and the detectives showing us steals.
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  Speaker 1: It wasn't pretty sight. They showed my niece, Robert and
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  Speaker 1: another young lady intertwined and I screamed at the top
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  Speaker 1: of my lins. What is going on? What is going on?
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  Speaker 1: What is wrong with this person? You were hearing it
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  Speaker 1: from Surviving R Kelly on Lifetime. I Nancy Grace, this
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  Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us, with
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  Speaker 1: us right now? Is an alleged victim of the musical
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  Speaker 1: superstar R Kelly joining us now? It's R Kelly's defense
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  Speaker 1: lawyer Steve Greenberg. Mister Greenberg, thank you for being with us. Well,
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  Speaker 1: I'm angry, I'm concerned, a little sick to my stomach
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  Speaker 1: as No, actually I'm not. I would not be angry
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  Speaker 1: if your client R. Kelly, Robert Kelly, went ahead and
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  Speaker 1: turn himself in that then I'd be happy for what
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  Speaker 1: Because it's hard for me to believe, mister Greenberg, that
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  Speaker 1: all of these women are I assume you've seen the
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  Speaker 1: Lifetime special Surviving R Kelly, that they're all lying and
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  Speaker 1: your client is the only one telling the truth. Sparkle.
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  Speaker 1: Sparkle told her story back when mister Kelly was arrested
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  Speaker 1: and charged Karon Illinois more than a decade ago, and
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: the jury didn't believe her. Then she's just retelling the
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: same story that no one believed. The young lady who
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  Speaker 1: she claimed was in the video, said it wasn't her.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: The young lady's mother said it wasn't her. The young
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  Speaker 1: lady's father said it wasn't her. So, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: don't know why everyone wants to believe Sparkle when the
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  Speaker 1: people who are supposedly closer to the situation all say
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: she's not correct. Well, okay, you know what, Let's move
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: from Sparkle. Who Guy Sparkle is the aunt of the
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  Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl in the video. According to the indictment,
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  Speaker 1: the jury said they cannot determine that she was fourteen
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  Speaker 1: or who she was with me today is Lisa Van Allen,
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  Speaker 1: who lived with R. Kelly, who says she was picked
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  Speaker 1: out of a group of women on a video shoot
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  Speaker 1: Strippers grow Women come straight over to a skinny teen
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: girl and says, how old are you? Will your mom
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: will let you come to Chicago. She gets there and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: he immediately enlists her for sex and a threesome. Now,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: forget about Sparkling, the incident of the fourteen year old
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: girl in the video who was having sex with R.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Kelly and got urinated on. Now I'm talking about Lisa
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Van Allen. He's with me right now you were there, Lisa,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened when he asked you to have a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: threesome with an underage girl? According to you, all right,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: when he would ask me to have strengthome, you know,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: I cry, I get upset and he would say, I
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: mean in one with the young lady that we're speaking
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: of from trial. When I cried about that one, he
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: got upset and said, what am I going to do
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: with this tape? What can I do with this? How
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: can I watch this with you on here crying? You know?
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I mean he really got upset that he couldn't watch
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: that tape later year old on it hit me. I
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: mean he called this uf the pipee Can his lawyer
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: explain that you know what the pie piper is? The
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: pipe piper is a man who lorris children away from
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  Speaker 1: their family. Do you do you, Steve Greenberg, know what
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  Speaker 1: the pie piper is? I do? Okay, what if you
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: know what the pie piper is? What? I cannot explain
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: people's nicknames? And that's not really you don't have to.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: He doesn't have to explain it. I mean, the evidence
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: is there. I mean, go to Cook County court House.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: How many women have you paid off that were underage.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Do you pay off people when you're not guilty? I
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: think twelve you do that when you're not guilty. Is
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that the right number, Steve? Steve? Is that the right number?
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: There have been twelve young women with whom he has
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: reached civil settlements where he paid money to make their
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: claim go away in civil court Nat beyond saying that
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: people subtle civil cases for all sorts of reasons, including
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: the cost of litigation. Any settlement which I have never
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: scene are my understanding when people explain them are supposed
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: to be confidential. And therefore I believe that if I
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: were I was not involved in those cases, if they exist,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a lawyer on it, and if I say
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: anything about it, I would be subject to discipline from
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the courts here. So I'm not going to let in
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: that situation since Rob is not Since since he believed
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: that Robert didn't do any of these things, why don't
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: they have Rob and all of us young ladies do
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: lie detective tests, Little roue who's telling the truth and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: who's not. I'm not saying in the court of law,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: just carry you just recording. Well, would he agree to
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a lie detector? Steve Greenberg. I'll ask him. Okay, everybody
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: hold with me? Is Lisa Van Allen, unless victim of
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: musical superstar R Kelly, who created I Believe I Can
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Fly and Steve Greenberg, R Kelly's defense attorney, along with
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Nicol Debord, doctor Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Alexis Terres Chuck. Now,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: alexis correct me if I'm wrong. But you've got Tiffany Hawkins.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: They filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against Robert Kelly.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: She says their relationship started when she was fifteen years
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: old and Kelly was twenty four. They settled four quarter
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: million dollars. Then you've got et epic records entering Tracy
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Sampson in decent sex relationship when she was seventeen. That
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: was a settlement. Patricia Jones sued for impregnating her when
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: she was seventeen, and she says forcing her to get
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: an abortion. They settled out of court. Mantina Woods seeking
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: fifty grand over sex encounter in his recording studio out
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: of court, unknown settlement. Then there was the fourteen counts
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: of child porn. He was found not guilty on that.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Then there was detailed allegations from parents claiming their daughter
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: being held in a cold Okay, then you've got I'm
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: losing my voice. Your Honda Pace says she met Kelly
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: outside of his trial when she was fifteen, and he
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: started inviting her over and they started a sex relationship
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: that he would film the encounters that ended, and there
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: was apparently a settlement. Kitty Jones, was thatte Martinez? Well,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to run out of time naming
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: all these women. So none of those names ring a bell.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Steve Greenberg, Oh, they all ring a bell. But for example,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: one of them you rattled off settled, you know, Sue,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: because she was supposedly sexually assault in his studio and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: she settled for fifty grand, And fifty grand is a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: nuisance pain. The cost of someone like like mister Kelly
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: going to litigationigation is extremely expensive. Well, that's the one
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: where the number. I'm not a part of those agreements.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: If they exist, I would know. I could tell you
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that that if anyone's talking about them, and they do exist,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: and they're breaching the agreements. So you've got people who
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: you know, stay. This is not about the women breaching
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: an agreement. This is about the fact that R. Kelly
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: has settled with we believe twelve women at least for
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: claims of underage sex or sex harassment. But hold on,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to something Lisa Van Allen said.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Does he call himself the pie Piper or do other
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: people call him that? He called himself the pie piper
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: on songs, He'll say it's the pie Piper, Okay, Just
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to clarify for Steve Greenberg, who is R. Kelly's defense
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: attorney of renowned defense attorney, his jurisdiction. The pie Piper
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of Hamlin as a story came out of Germany and
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: it was about a rat catcher that would play music.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: He would play music and a pipe and it would
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: lure rats away. But then when no one would pay
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: him for what he did, he used his instruments magical
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: power and led the children away and they never came back.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Doesn't sound familiar that according to Lisa, it's what Kelly
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: calls himself. With me is Lisa Van Allen, ledged victim
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of musical superstar R. Kelly who created I Believe I
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Can Fly, and Steve Greenberg, r Kelly's defense attorney, along
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: with Nicole Debord, doctor Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Alexis
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Terrez Chuck Lisa. If you could speak to R. Kelly
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: right now, what would you say? I would say, stop
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: hurting people. Stop hurting people. Why does he feel the need?
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I mean they say hurt people, hurt people, but that
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be true. I'd been hurt on multiple occasions,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to hurt people. I'm here to
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: help people. I would tell him, get help and stop
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: hurting people. Send those girls home if they're not being
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: held against their will, let them don't see their family,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Let them go, and then they'll come back if they're
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: not being held against their will. You know, I always said,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I say it was me before me too, because I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: came out before any of these movements were out, you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: and nobody was listening back in two thousand and eight.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: But now we have a second chance to come back around.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: He calls itself the pie Piper of R and D
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: for a reason. He tells us all of these names
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: in his songs. For a reason. He came up with
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: a J eight nothing but a number for a reason.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: My book is called Surviving the Pie Piper. If you
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: want to get more in depth with my story. That's
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: where you can get you can get that on my website.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I'm Lucia van Allen. Hold On hold On Surviving the
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Pied Piper by Lisa Van Allen to visit Hill Private
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: Investigator way in. So, I want to go back to
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: something Steve Greenberg said about he doesn't know why his
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: client is called the pie Piper. Listen said saying there's
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: truth in fiction. I mean, there's a reason there's a
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: line in one of our Kelly songs that says, I
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: could have sworn you were ready to go all the way.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: He's talking to his young victims. And also he mentioned, oh,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: he doesn't know why Lisa waited years to come forward
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: with her story. Well, me being a survivor of sexual
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: assault when I was seven years old, Nancy, I didn't
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: come out and tell anyone about that until a month
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: ago when I was on live TV. So sometimes it
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: does take years because it's not just physical, it's actually psychological,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and that's the bigger piece to get over Nancy, the
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: psychological piece. To Alexis to Reschuck, investigative journalist writer online
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: dot com, alexis, is there any chance he's going to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: be prosecuted. So there's an open case right now in Chicago.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: It is not exactly about any of the victims. What
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the authorities are looking into is he has a recording
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: studio in Chicago, and they are saying that he used
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: this recording studio not for recording but as a personal home.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: The implication being that perhaps women have been attacked in
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: this home. And so the city of Chicago has been
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: releasing photos from inside this recording studio and the only
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: musical thing in the photos that they have released is
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: one keyboard which is in a room next to a
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: massage table. All right, now, wait wait wait wait wait,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I've I've been in that studio is recently, is two
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: nights ago, And I actually think they're being respectful because
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: there is a full recording studio in that premise, is
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: with a large soundboard and place you know, instruments and all.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: That's a soundproof room there. There's definitely the only time
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: in my life I was ever in a musical recording studio.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: But there is a large room that looks like you
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: know what I've seen pictures over the years of a
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: recording studio. There's definitely a recording stureal and in fact,
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: he didn't build the recording studio. There was a gospel
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: singer who released that premisses before he did, who actually
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: was the one who built out. Okay, you know what,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you, Steve Greenberg having all the details of
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: what's in his studio and no details about all the
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: women living in his home. But I'm not falling for
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: look here, not there to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst way in, well,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I think we're free. We're out Roman society. We're on
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: your radio show, Nancy, and we can speak our mind.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: As we're talking. There are frightened women living in that
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: house who feel that they cannot go against r. Kelly.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Their food is being controlled, their clothing is being controlled.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: They're being forced to have sex with each other, and
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: he is right now alienating them from their families. He has.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: He initially, I am sure, lured them in by making
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: them feel that they were special. That was step one,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: making them feel that they were the only ones that
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: they and they alone could free him from his sexual captivity.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: He had never had a threesome before. At Lisa's talking
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: about and then when they protest, he begins to brainwash
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: them that they have a special mission. I'm sure they
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: want to reach out to their families. He is not
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: allowing them to do so. And at this point they
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: feel that because they have allowed themselves to go along
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: with him, that they are at fault. They are unable
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to blame him, and thus the captivity is going to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: go on and on until the courts really do what
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: they need to do. And Nicole Devoord, former felony prosecutor
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: now defense attorney, what can the courts do now? Oh,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: the prosecutors can accept the charge and see what a
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: jury will do. And mister Greinberg will have an excellent
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: opportunity to relay all of the defense that he's relayed
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to us today. He has some excellent points, and this
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: is a case that needs some critical thinking and I
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: expect that at some point some of these cases will
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: turn into charges. So, Steve Greenberg, I will personally go
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: before the Atlanta Fulton County Superior Court and ask that
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you come in pro hot vich to represent Kelly. I'd
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: love to see yeah, yeah, because I really want to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: see this go to court and that would enable you
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: to put all of your defenses in front of a
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: jury of twelve twelve Atlanta citizens who really would be
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: interested in finding out what's going on behind the closed
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: doors at R. Kelly's Mansions, one of the six properties
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: he owns Lisa Van Allen. Did he control what you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: ate and wore? Well, what I wore, Yeah, but what
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: I ate not so much. It was one time where
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: I actually didn't wasn't able to eat, and I did
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: confront him about it and he actually made it where
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it was, you know, like pay cash and stuff at
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: the studio for me. So that's why I say, I
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: feel like he's getting worse, because yes, he would control
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: what I wore. Like if I tried to wear something
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: that fit me cute and I wanted to go maybe
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: to the mall or something, then he'd had to see
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: what I had on, and if it wasn't something he
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: felt was appropriate, he'd have me put on some of
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: his clothing. So yeah, he did. Oh what do you
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: mean by something that wasn't appropriate? Like if that's form fitting,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: maybe jeans that fit me cute and nice shirt, you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: something like that. If it wasn't baggy, put it that way,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So then he'll just have me throw on something pit Okay, Now,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: let me understand he would want you to wear baggy clothes. Yeah,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: uh huh if it was anything form for Why why
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: would he want you to wear baggy clothes? I guess
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: because he wouldn't want it to be form fitting to
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: show my figure. You know, he'd asked if I wanted
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to leave out the building, he'd want to see what
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I had on, and if it was something that fit
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: me cute, he'd ask me to he'd have me put
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: on like some sweatpants or a pair of his clothing.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: He wears two eggs and at that time I was
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: like a bote too, so he'd have me put on
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: his big So he would have you wearing is double
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: ex clothing as opposed to your siss. Okay, another question,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: what do you make of these ladies claims that he
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: beats them? I believe it because he did. He's actually
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: hit me before. He does didn't beat me on the regular,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: but he did. He smacked me before when I spoke
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: to someone that I wasn't that he felt like I
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have spoke to he um spanked me before and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: until I cried before and then afterwards he told me
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: he loved me, and he just wants to teach me
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: and like as if I was a child, you know,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, at the end of the day, I
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: just want to help abuse victims like that. You know.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That's part that's wh wh White White Wall White. He
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: spank to you till you cried to teach you what
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that's what I was he teaching you. Yeah, it's like
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: he's sick. He it's like he thinks he's your father something,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: you know, because I mean, that's what you go back,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Why did he say that he was Why did he
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: say he was hitting you? Because I got because I
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: didn't listen. I was talking to someone I wasn't supposed
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to be speaking to. So he was upset about that.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Who were you talking too? Who were you talking to?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: His entourage? I don't really know exactly who it was,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: but we were all on the tour bus and I
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: spoke to someone and he got upset about it. And
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: then he pulled me in the bathroom and pulled my
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: pants down and he spanked me. And at first I
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: wasn't crying, because you know, a spank game is a spanking,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: but he kept doing it harder and harder until I cried.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Classic signs of an abuser Nancy classic. When was it,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Lisa that he hit you? And when he smacked you,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: it was pretty much the same situation. We were all
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: chilling or whatever. And see the thing is he doesn't
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: want you to speak to any male period. No, one
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: don't speak to him. And it's for a really normal
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: reaction if someone says high team to speak back. You know,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I'm a friendly person. So I spoke back and he
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: pulled me into the tour bus in the in the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: bathroom and he smacked me for speaking to rooms. So,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen, I hope we meet again. Who sheriff
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and a new push to solve who murdered seventeen year
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: old Maggie Long and why people are upset about it.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: You know, it's a young, beautiful woman and I agree completely.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: You know, it's something that we need to go after.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: It sad to be greatly to tell you that Maggie
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: was purposely set on fire and burned alive. Cheff Tom
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: mccross has hundreds of tips that poured in crucial witnesses
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: coming forward months after the crime. People are curious. We're
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: also getting our first look inside the crime scene. Snapshots
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: of the chart home also knew more money for information
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: leading to an arrest. The reward has now doubled to
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. A seventeen year old little girl, Maggie Long,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: burned alive. I, Nancy Grace, this as Crime Stories, thank
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. With me an all star panel,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute CSI, expert,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: renowned criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor Daryl Cohen joining me
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: now from LA psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall. But to Robert
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Olinsky Crime online dot Com investigative report order Robin, a
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl burned alive? Who in the world
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: would do such a horrendous thing. The original reporting from
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen December when this situation went down,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: is that the police believe that there were three men
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: in three cars that came to that house, that targeted
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: that house Nancy to steal. There was a burglary, but
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think they counted on this seventeen year old
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: senior high school senior, Maggie Long, being there. And there
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: was a fire in the home and neighbors were calling
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: nine to one one to report a fire, and then
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: when the investigators went there, she was set on fire
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: and was found dead. Oh my stars, we are learning
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: this seventeen year old girl, Maggie, She's got this big,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: beautiful smile. Burned alive. Investigators with Park County have just
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: announced a major reward fifty thousand dollars and a new
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: website they hope will lead straight to her killers. Maggie
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: was purposely set on fire and burned alive. To Cold
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Case Research Institute Director of Cheryl McCollum man, that must
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: have been a heart breaking crime scene. I mean even
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the photographs are difficult to look at. Now. We all
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: know in this business and a lot of times the
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: fire is set to cover up other crimes, whether it's
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: a sexual assault or something that was poured on her.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: They're trying to get rid of something. It does look
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: like she possibly interrupted a bird. Learning that appears to
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: be their motives, things that they've spent a lot of
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: time in the house. They weren't in a hurry to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: get out. Kindle reminds me of the all day murders,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: where you know these three people or five in that
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: situation decides, Hey, we're gonna murder these people in such
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: a whole horrific manner, But it does look like she
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: fought back and perhaps one of them was injured as well.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: But we were learning from Sheriff McGraw at least one
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of the men involved in the murder may have sustained
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: an injury in the fire they set to kill seventeen
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: year old Maggie. We've got a sketch of that guy
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: and you can see it at crime online dot com
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: with this and all other breaking crime news. We also
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: know that same day, Maggie was to go to a
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: concert at her high school and she was in charge
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of the VIP section. She went home to get cookies
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and water for the audience, telling all of her friends,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I'll be right back. She was never seen alive again.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Now the sheriff says one of the suspects again may
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: have sustained an injury in the fire that sketch on
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. We know that the home likely
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: was being burglarized. But since the fire, to Robin Willinski,
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: I want to find out what if any developments have
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: been made in finding the people that burned this teen girl.
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: Hold On, Doctor Bethany Marshall wants in la psychoanalyst, Doctor
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: bethany Way in the fact that they actually burned a
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl, tells me that she actually might
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: have known the perpetrators. This is a very small community.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: She came home on a break to get cookies and
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: water for the drama community, and she came upon a crime.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: So she was a victim of somebody who was perpetrated
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: against as a part of the commission of another crime.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: But what if she knew these boys? These were young men,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: So the fact is she may have recognized them, and
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: they panicked, they did something to her, and then hastily
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: they tried to destroy the evidence. This little girl's body
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: was found inside of her own burned home. She had
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: just come home to get cookies and waters for a
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: concert to give to VIP guests at the high school concert.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, Daryl, we
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: know the father kept guns in the home, and apparently
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: that was the target of the burglary. But who would
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: know those guns were there. It had to be someone
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: who was familiar with her. It had to be people
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that knew that she had a family that had guns.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: So this Brakes reeks to me of someone who was
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: going after those guns, and they were stunned and surprised.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And I agree that they knew who she was, and
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: worse than that, she knew who they were. So when
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: she was home, they had to do something to make
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: sure that she kept her mouth shut. And the worst
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: thing they could have done is what they did. They
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: not only killed her, but they tortured her by burning,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: and that is just outrageous and unbelievable to me. You know,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: you're right, because what we're learning, Sheryl McCollum, is that
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: she was burned alive. And I guarantee you this was
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: somebody that knew that family, no question about it. And again,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: the level of just any humanity, when you're talking about
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: burning somebody alive, it's beyond torture. So again, the evidence
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: there in the home. Hopefully, and this sounds horrible, but
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: with the soot and whatnot, where they touched other things
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: might have preserved the finger prints perfectly. Hopefully the gun,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: one of the guns might show up, because there's an
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: AK forty seven, a nine millimeter Baretta and over two
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: hundred rounds of ammunition. So again, these folks, you know,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: law Off wasn't like to say, well, they probably got
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: rid of those weapons fast. They didn't ditch them. They
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: might have sold them or something to another person. But
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: I think they'll show up in another crime. Who burned
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: seventeen year old Maggie Long Alive? Tipline three zero three
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: two three nine four two four three pete three zero
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: three two three nine four two four three. There is
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollar reward. We wait as justice unfalls.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace conn Story is signing off Goodbye friend,