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Legendary Artist Jimmy Abegg on Creative Habits · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is another good example of why I love podcasting.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's because it gives me the opportunity to have conversations with amazing people.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get to share those conversations with you.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Back in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, I listened to a lot of contemporary Christian music, otherwise known as CCM.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if you remember back in the days before streaming took over the world, we had these little things called liner notes, which contained the song lyrics, musicians lists, and other kinds of info involved in the making of an album.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, when you got that CD or that cassette tape, if you remember cassette tapes about a thousand years ago, you could pull out those liner notes and you could see, oh, this here were the songwriters, here were the musicians, here's the photographer for the the artist uh photograph on the cover of the album.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: All those really cool things.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, all those things are lost nowadays because we it's really hard to find that information for albums because of streaming.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But back in the day, that was really, really fun.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the names that I regularly saw on CCM albums was Jimmy A.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Begg, also known as Jimmy A.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was not only active as a musician on mini albums, but also as a photographer who took many photos for contemporary Christian music album covers over the years.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: For those of you familiar with CCM, you might recognize Jimmy from his days as the guitar player in the Charlie Peacock trio, as well as one of the players in Rich Mullins' Ragamuffins.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, today I get to bring you a conversation with Mr.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Ebeg, and I hope that it's going to inspire you just like it did me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Here's a snippet of Jimmy's bio from his website.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: He says, In 1989, a career in music led me and my young family to Nashville, Tennessee.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Today we still call Nashville home, and I'm proud to say that the years have been generous and full.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: I've been given so many opportunities to provide for my family and care for others while creating things I love.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Be it playing music on the road, recording in the studio, making fine art, showing in galleries, designing record packaging, photographing musicians, writing music, or mentoring others on all of the above.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: My life of creativity has explored many mediums.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Whether abstract or figurative, my painting continues the tendency toward curiosity, whimsy, and simple beauty with a healthy dose of train-hopping, carefree adventure.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Man, that is one of the best bios I have seen in a really long time.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now I do want to let you know that Jimmy suffers from macular degeneration, which has taken away the majority of his sight, but he still loves art and music and makes both of those very, very well.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Interestingly, he says that some of his favorite pieces of art have been created during this period of his life, which I find really compelling.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, in this conversation that you're about to hear, Jimmy and I talk about songwriting, collaboration, artwork, and creative habits among other topics.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: And one of my favorite quotes from this conversation, in fact, this is one of my favorite quotes from any conversation I've ever had on this podcast, happened when Jimmy gave some advice for people trying to figure out their path in life.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And he said this Try to quit what you're doing.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't stop, maybe you should be doing that.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let me say that again because that's really profound.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Try to quit what you're doing.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't stop, maybe you should be doing that.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: When he said that, as well as lots of other things that you'll hear in this conversation, it was really, really mind-blowing.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Jimmy is fun, he's compassionate, he's creative, and above all, he's really, really wise.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I really loved connecting with him.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: You can connect with Jimmy at his website, which is Jimmyabeg.com.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's Jimmy A-B-E-G-G dot com.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now before I get to the interview, I do want to let you know that Cindy Morgan is the one who connected me with Jimmy, and Cindy was so kind and thoughtful to do that.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had Cindy here on the podcast a few months ago, and we'll talk about another person who is wise and talented and such a great interview guest.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been so blessed by the people that Cindy has introduced me to, as well as uh having her on the show here myself.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, here is one of the really cool people Cindy has introduced me to, Jimmy Abeg.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hope you enjoyed this conversation.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Jimmy, it's so good to have you on the Daily Rider podcast.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have been looking forward to this ever since Cindy Morgan connected us, which, if you would have asked me years ago, would I even know anybody in your world, people of your and Cindy's caliber as well as some others she's introduced me to?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I've been blown away.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks for being on the show.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: I consider this a privilege.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm knocked out.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is a great, great, fun time.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love to talk.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I knew of your work a long, long time ago.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess that makes both of us maybe feel a little bit old, which is not what I mean to do.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I know I'm old.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: But as I mentioned to you, I think in a call or a text or something, I think my first introduction to your work was way back when I don't even know what year it was, but Sparrow Records was doing, they did a series of videos called Front Row.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Stephen Curtis Chapman did one, and I think Margaret Becker did one, and Michael Card and Charlie Peacock did as well.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I had no idea that you were the guitar player for that.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's me.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my gosh, I suddenly made that connection as to the work.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually just a couple weeks ago, I went back and looked at that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: I watched rewatched part of that, and I was like, oh my gosh, you carried that whole set with just acoustic guitar.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that was phenomenal.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I was uh, I think that was something I was uh lowercase famous for.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: That was a fun chapter.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I loved, I loved the Charlie Peacock trio, and we we we had a a nice uh run there a few years together.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: That was really a blessing.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You've been involved in a lot of cool things over the years.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're part of Rich Mullins' Ragn Muffin band.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you've made countless uh you did photography for a long time, have been involved in countless uh artwork for albums, and you've done a lot of things.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to dive into this topic of how do you think about your career as a creative person being involved in different things?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think especially today, a lot of creative types and a lot of writers for that matter feel like you kind of have to specialize in this one really specific niche.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: But you've had a career doing a lot of different things, and I'm curious how how you have thought about your career over the years, because you've you've done a variety of things, and how do all those things blend together and how do you think about your portfolio of creative work that you've built?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I blame that on time because I I never really had a plan.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I knew um when an opportunity came my way, which were many, um I had a good sense about yes and no, I think.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so maybe part of curating a life like that, uh, it it was all on me and my wife because we, you know, I've never really had uh any kind of professional directional, you know, no management, no, you know, none of that stuff really played a role in my life and my decisions, but my talent and my gifts have.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, very early, some of my earliest work as an illustrator really came through a relationship with a friend, you know, on multiple projects, you know, someone would find out that I did this, that, or the other, and they would ask me and I would do it.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And often what I did was at a at a higher caliber than average, let's say.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I don't blame me for that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I blame circumstance for that.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So uh case in point, the trio, you know, with Charlie Peacock, it was Charlie and I and a guy named Vince Ebo that was the the Charlie Peacock trio.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: But prior to the trios being born, we also had the Charlie Peacock group, which there were about eight of us, you know, sacks, bass, drums, keyboards, um, horns, and a second background singer.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we had to, since we were based in Sacramento, a lot of the gigs that we were offered were would not support uh six or eight people.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I had this idea to to just figure out there was a band or a duo at the time in the Bay Area called Tuck and Patty.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: And Tuck, I think his name is Tuck Andrus, and his wife was Patty, and they had a run of successful guitar vocal albums, just the two of them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I saw him in the had to be in the late 70s, I was just kind of smitten with the idea that you could do it all on an acoustic guitar and just have that be the simplicity of it and let the let the vocals carry the weight and just being a uh an exceptional accompaniment.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Accompanyum, accompany him, whatever, accompanyist.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, um, that's how the trio was born, and much to our surprise, I mean, we man, we toured all over the world with that and even did the first run when Amy did the Heart in Motion tour.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we did the first uh few weeks until Charlie realized he was he couldn't be on the road full time anymore.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: He was getting sick every day, and uh he had work at home as a producer, so he could easily resign that that role as an opening act for the Amy Grant show.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was a disappointment to me, but what's funny about that, it's a pattern in my life when when the Charlie Peacock trio thing kind of fell to the sidelines.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Vince got a deal as a solo artist, I got a deal as a solo artist.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Chuck was busy making records for other people, in addition to doing maybe a record a year himself, but he was no longer touring like we used to.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so literally within months, I was full-time playing with Rich Mullins.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: So in my book, I kind of went from Lillipad to Lillipad.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so the next few years were with Rich, wherein I met, you know, thousands of people and many fantastic colleagues.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And through those years, I was also a session musician, so I played on a lot of records uh uh in the early 90s um as an uh you know anonymous guitar player, and so um all of those things came together over time to create a fair amount of experience and excellence, and obviously keeping in mind, Kent, that the bar for me is quite high.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I think about records, I'm thinking Daniel Lenoir level, you know, uh U2.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many great uh ways to record and make music, but my expectations for my own work are rather high.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think as a result of that pressure that I put on myself, my work does tend to be better than average, let's say.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it does uh in some ways spark interest because often it's it's not sophisticated, you know, it it is an untrained eye, it is an untrained hand.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: And like I was telling you in a conversation we had off the podcast, you know, my new writing um agenda, which, you know, the fact that I discovered that I can write at all is a big surprise.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I my expectations in that category, you know, are also quite high.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I I won't know if I've met them or not for uh a while because I I can't actually read what I write, and I can't certainly assemble it in a sequence that is, you know, makes sense yet.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: But um I know that the storytelling comes from a space of truth and a space of honesty, and I think the authenticity of a wife of a life like mine um is recognizable to others, you know.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's why I enjoy uh the friendships that I enjoy, you know, the the without dropping names, it it just feels funny because I know a lot of really famous people and they come around regularly to visit, which I'm very grateful for because I'm I am stranded, but uh it it's just funny the way God works because to answer your question, I did not have a plan, but God gave me some gifts that I have uh worked at and added to, and uh out of that comes opportunity, and the opportunities that come my way are um I treat them as a one-off.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so stylistically, or or what you were referring to as being uh you know dedicated to one thing, what did you call that?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um your kind of one basically one type of career path where I have one specific.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I should have just been a painter.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't I be, if that's all I did, wouldn't I have gotten a lot further?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: If I was just a guitar player, wouldn't I have gotten a lot further?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all of those questions come up in in a in a mind that is not mine because I I think they're all the same thing.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they come out of the same spot.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they're all different expressions of the same creative impulse.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: They are, and so that and and you know, I think it's a magnificent ballet that God orchestrated on my behalf and that of my family and my children, that I somehow raise my kids on a guitar for one thing, and paint.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that that's unique because I I don't think there's a lot of folks out there that would say that they were, you know, what I was able to uh an accomplishment is a word that I don't like to use, but I have to hear because it feels like staying married for 45 years to the same person and still being deeply in love and having raised three ch three kids now that are you know 43, 38 or 39 and uh 36.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's an accomplishment.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, my kids are great, you know.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a couple of grandkids, all the all the girls are married.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: I had three girls, they're all married and happy and doing well and thriving.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, to me, that's a success story.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like, you know, I do meet people all the time that ask me, what should I do?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I say, well, for me, the thing that worked most often is to try to quit what you're doing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you can't stop, then maybe you should keep doing that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, if you're a a guy that plays guitar and wants to be in the in the band and you get ready, and the first gig you do is misery, then you have a choice.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: You either go, well, maybe this isn't me and I was wrong, or I just gotta work harder.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's up to everybody.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a writer who writes a manuscript and gets rejected by 15 agents, let alone all the way to the publisher.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, who is the person that says, let me try this again?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: That is that displays a certain stick tuativeness and a certain commitment to the beat of the drum you're hearing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exceptional.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, I think it's pretty easy uh to see it, but it's not easy to execute because there's a lot of people frustrated out there.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I meet frustrated musicians more than other types.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: I meet frustrated artists who can't get their foot in the door, I meet uh writers who can't get published, um, etc.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I don't know the answer to that except to say that with me, uh my opportunities seem to be a out uh growth of the work that I'm doing anyway.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so in in other words, if I if I were to write a song uh this afternoon and reach out to Cindy Morgan, one of your recent podcaster uh people, um she would know me well enough to know that she would probably want to hear that song because of my history.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if I'm Joe Blow and I reach out to Cindy to hear a song, she's gonna be like, ah, you can send it to me, but I don't know when I'll have time to listen to it.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that my experience in some ways and my personality have created a garden that I can bloom in, you know, with God's hand, certainly going before all that is, you know, I was not born a nothing.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: God gave me a personality and talent and gifts and certain this, that, and the other.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in my book, God knew me when I was five, and I could see with my eyes all the way until I was about 60, and then I started not being able to see, and now I'm 68 and I'm almost completely blind, and I can't not think that the God who took care of me at 5, 10, 18, 25, 45, and 55 is not the same guy or same embodiment or same spirit that is now caring for me without my eyes.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I just don't worry about it.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we'll get back to the conversation here in just a second, but I want to stop and give a shout out to today's podcast sponsor, which is Vellum.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll get back to Vellum here in about 19 seconds, but I want to let you know I've been reading this really cool book called Confessions of an Advertising Man by David Ogilvie.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: He is one of the most brilliant business minds of the last hundred years.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: He is known as one of the world's top copywriters ever.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And in this book, he gives some advice to people who would go into the business of advertising.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the pieces of advice he gives them is to use your clients' products.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's pretty cool because he says, Why would you not use your clients' products?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to represent the best people in the world, you need to use their products, which, according to you, are the best.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that is exactly the way that I feel about Vellum.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love having Vellum as a podcast sponsor, not just because they're a sponsor, but because I truly love their product.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Vellum is what I use to format all the books that I do myself.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that includes my own books, sometimes it's books for others or for friends or things like that.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Many times, to be honest with you, I when I'm working on a ghostwriting client book, I prepare a sample of a chapter.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, like when we get an intro or a chapter or two of the book drafted, most of the time I will go into Vellum and I will just do kind of a mock-up of what the book will look like when a professional designs it.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for most of my client books, I actually have professional designers take care of those things.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh most of the time it's Christy Griffith who you've heard me talk about uh as another one of my sponsors.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I love Vellum because it gives me the chance to do a real quick mock-up and it looks great, and the clients really, really love it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking for a great solution for very fun, very easy to use, and very great looking book formatting software.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're an indie publisher and you want to do it yourself, then I highly, highly recommend you check out Vellum.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: To do so, you can go to trivellum.com slash daily.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Give it a shot.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know what you think.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: You could shoot me an email at Kent at dailyriderlife.com.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Truly, I love Vellum, and you're gonna love it too.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: All right, back to the conversation with Jimmy Abeg.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to circle back to something that you that you mentioned a minute ago about about knowing a lot of famous people.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm curious for you and for other people that you've known, because you've known a lot of uh creative people, performers, celebrities, those kinds of things.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you balance the need as an artist?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm asking this because a lot of writers deal with this as well.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think anybody who puts their work out publicly deals with this.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance the need for let's say commercial success?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you've got to present a certain kind of image, you've got to uphold some kind of stand public standard, et cetera, et cetera.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: How do you balance that with also the need to be authentic and to express yourself, which by definition includes the painful things that you go through, uh hard things, things that you want to say that might not be popular.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: How do you reconcile those two things as a person who's in the limelight or who has a public kind of a platform?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that's a great question because I I actually think that that it is a it is a one-by-one thing.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, in other words, each I don't have a policy about that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just have a I have a discernment um heart that will will notice um maybe the because I I I totally get what you're saying about thing writers and musicians and artists and that that are compelled to make the kind of work that they do and um then follow that with uh either critical uh criticism that sometimes veers into toxicity or nothing.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean in some ways it's even worse to not hear anything, you know, up or down, and then contrast that with being rejected.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um the the the self-security part about that piece, I think is essential.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I I would not say I'm an egotist or even all that self-absorbed, but I do have uh my mind on the idea that if I make a painting and I don't like it, that that's okay.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: That the failure quotient uh is is probably would be surprisingly high if I were to really sit down and document it.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right now I I've just stretched about 16 canvases and they're all pretty big because I have a pretty strong interior decorator client base and they they go for the big stuff.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm creating a new crop of bigger paintings.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and at the same time, I'm writing most mornings and I'm sitting across the studio from the work that I'm working on, and it gives me an opportunity to be uh curating what my work is from a distance, both when I'm writing and watching my art, or when I'm painting and remembering what I wrote this morning.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like it's a it's a luxury for me, but I think that the that what you're getting at is the uh how do you put up with rejection or how do you put up with um I don't know, uh the self-doubt that comes with being a creative is omnipresent.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've got it, I'm building a uh patio and some stuff out the front door of my studio, and uh one of the first things I'm doing is I've got a pat uh a fire pit area with a stone uh floor and these concrete uh borders, and I'm spelling my thoughts, you know, things I think on these short, you know, they're about 30 inch long and about eight inches, and I just write things on them like say I love you again.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's on one of the stones.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the other ones, uh, one of the stones says, pretend you can, because that's a good disposition for an artist.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or a writer.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have one that says art, it's huge, and then the next stone next to it says transcends self-doubt.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so as creatives, you yourself know that there's writer's block, there's you know, lack of inspiration, there's, you know, I don't know, some people uh need to be inspired to work, some people uh for everybody it's a little bit different.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, you know, I've I've been able to stick to my guns and do what I do.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Even the thing that you mentioned, the peacock trio, you know, when we first started doing that, people are like, you can't do that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's like that's not, I mean, though it was really cool and it was obviously really cool, we were still met with, well, where's the beef, you know, or whatever.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's always going to be a grievance out there.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I learned at a pretty early age to ignore that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And even to the point where I'm certain that I could ignore that to my own demise if I were trying to make, for example, a good business plan for a financial development company, I would scratch around in the sand for months and come up with nothing because I don't have any vocabulary in that world.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have no intellectual understanding of how that works.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: But when it comes to art and making and creating and executing and finishing, I have a really good uh sense about that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that helps me, Kent, is that I have a list in the morning that I go after.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not every day, I screw that up too, a lot of the times.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the first thing on the list is my physical therapy.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I spend 20 or 30 minutes taking care of my body, and then I do some breakfast, but then I do a watercolor every day because it really makes me stop and slow down.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those watercolors I wouldn't show to anyone, but a lot of them are really quite amazing.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so then it's time to go over to the easel and work on a canvas, and I force myself to paint sometimes because I'm not in the mood or I don't feel right or whatever.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens is that by by painting a little bit, I get excited about what's what what I'm screwing up usually, and I'm trying to either fix that or get to a place of safety so I can leave that and go do what I was supposed to do outside in the in the yard.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, it like I said, I have an extraordinarily unusual predicament in that I'm homebound, trapped, because I can't drive and I can't really see much.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I'm kind of stranded, but I use that to my advantage by by playing the the different cards out and and also the expectation of failure.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I expect my work to suck.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it doesn't, I'm really surprised.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I live without expectation, and that creates really good fruit because even something I'm working on right now, I had a group in here yesterday.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Friends from Salem, Oregon were in town, and a partner of his from Portland.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're both in the uh, I don't know what you call that, life coaching business.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: And they just love me.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: They think I'd be a great life coach, but I, you know, my career choices have already been made.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I can't do that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it's just funny because they left here going, man, this is one of the best afternoons of recent memory.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that there's an active pulse in me that that both uh motivates and inspires.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it I can use that on myself.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if you sit down and start writing, despite your uh angst about it, I think you would confess, and most writers would, that if you just push through, you know, the work begets the work, the work creates the work that you're thinking of.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: So by making the wrong work when you start out because you're frustrated, you can throw those pages away because what came after that is mind-blowing.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the way it works for me.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that sort of answered a little bit of that question.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm actually taking notes uh on this.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do think you would make a great life coach.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: If the uh painting and music thing doesn't work out, yeah, then uh I think it could be a good direction.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: My father, bless his heart, he passed away in January of this year and he almost made it to 96.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: He was determined to his grandmother made it to 99 and he wanted to get there.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, my dad was uh really good and fine, and he he watched my life, and I spent a lot of time with him in the last few years, especially, which I'm very grateful for.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he had what I have.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I got my blindness from my dad, it's a hereditary condition, and so he's been severely hard of seeing for more than 30 years, so he probably came down with it around the same time, 65 or so.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so um all the years that I was in Nashville, my father knew that I was a guitar player, but he was very concerned.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is a really bad career choice, and so and he would let me know that, you know, and I I just humored him and went back to work.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, it was only maybe 15 years ago, so he would have been maybe a right around 80 when he one of his visits to Nashville and he saw how many pots my hands were in.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, Okay, I think I get it now.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it took him almost 20 years of me being here in Nashville for him to understand what I was doing.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, the cumulative effect of uh being uh active, you know, doing the work, I can tell you that as if you're a writer, if you don't do the writing, uh your book is not gonna be complete.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't finish the book, it's not gonna get published by you or anyone else.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so beginning, middling, and finishing, those three things have to happen.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people that can begin really well.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be a really good begin a song well, and then I could never finish them.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in the last few years, that's something now that I'm really good at is finishing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, now I'm concentrating on finishing things.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's a good good piece of advice for people that that it's also uh really available to me as a habit to cut and run.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm working on a song or a painting or a story and I think I've screwed up, I am not afraid to destroy it and start over.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is a uh a wildly uh crazy concept to some people who think you should just stick after it until you get it where you want it.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of have a sense that I can tell right out of the gate that it sucks.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like meeting people.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell within a few minutes whether I'm gonna get along with somebody.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that same quality uh occupies most people.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think they have an intuitive sense about who they are and what they're doing.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So take that as a uh as a good piece of advice.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Work to get the work.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now let me ask you.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I actually wrote that down.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great quote.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard that before, by the way.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I've never heard the work begass the work.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's totally new to me.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a good one.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really it works, man.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's severely effective.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, and and there's there's no way to know the answer to this question, because this is totally hypothetical.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, you were very close with Rich Mullins, known as a creative genius.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: I loved his music, as did many people.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, as a fellow artist, if he would not have died back in 1997, um, knowing how he was wired and who he was, do you think he would have had a similar thing in his life where maybe he would have taken a at some point his career would have gone a totally different trajectory rather than staying with music?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, very definitely.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Rich had a lot of aspirational ideas.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: He he had um, he thought big though, because he was also given a big heart, you know, and it and it's sad that he left early.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I can only believe that God had that uh plan in place, and so I don't argue with God about that early departure, but I can tell you that even in the short seven years that I was with him, which in the rear view mirror, I always think it's like 10 or 15 because we got we did so much and played year round.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was full, full on pretty much the whole time.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: We were either making a record or uh touring or writing.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um Rich didn't need any help writing.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I I learned a lot from him from watching him uh write, and he he did help me uh from time to time.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have a few lyrics that we worked on together that I have never finished, and I feel like I have to leave them alone because they are what they are, you know, out of respect for the time that those emerged from, I've I've been careful to not pronounce too much about that.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, he he was, and I think that's why he was drawn to me.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he found me.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know who he was when I met him.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, six or eight weeks after I met him, I was in his band.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew he liked me, and I knew he liked me not only for my talent as a guitarist, and at the time with him, I was also playing mandolin, banjo, and bass a little bit and singing, of course.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And um he loved the fact that I painted every day.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for all those years, I traveled with uh sketchbooks and I did a watercolor every day.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing it for more than 40 years now, and he admired that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: He admired my children and my wife because he was not married, longed to be married, longed to have a family.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so it was it was a bit of uh creative envy and a little bit of jealousy because he couldn't paint, he couldn't draw, and you know, honestly, in truth, in in a real world term, I could not write a song uh or sing like he uh Rich is uh remarkably unique.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like he he was not really self-confessed a singer, he would say he's a terrible singer, but he sings in key and he yells it out, and you get the idea, and it's amazing to me.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the same with his songwriting, man.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: He just he just tosses them off like they're nothing, and you know, hard to get, which is a rich collar song off of the Jesus record, um, which unfortunately we only have his demo version of that.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, that song is pretty much bulletproof, and there are many, many others, and I'm not the only one to to to announce that fact.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think that for Rich, I was in with him when the wheels were turning.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he really, really wanted to to uh plan and build and execute a uh elementary school in the Navajo Nation for the uh um indigenous tribes in the southwest.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: He had aspirational goals for uh doing a uh more of a uh Broadway show kind of thing.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with Wayne Kirkpatrick?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, he I've actually I've never talked to Wayne, but maybe someday I'll have him on the podcast.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm extremely adhesive with his work.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: I could hook you up with Wayne.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Wayne is obviously a number one, repeatedly number one hit songwriter.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, agree.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to being a great uh writer, you know, uh narrative or or whatever you call that memoir.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, um he no one would know, but he he is a board game, he turns uh antique board games into clocks.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen his stuff on Twitter, actually.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So he's got his feet in a in a few things, but uh uh the way that came up is that um the uh this idea that there's room for not only your main livelihood career, but your all of your sidelines, you know, what whatever those might be.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in Wayne's case, he now has something rotten in play and on tour.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is like maybe six years ago that premiered with his brother.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: He wrote a a stage play.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, my point is that's Rich saw himself doing that, and I think he could have done it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he wrote several treatments when he was still alive.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: One was called The Kid Brothers of St.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Frank, about a Saint St.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: Francis character that lived in the Old West and all biblical themes.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really interesting, uh interesting treatment.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: We we tried to put a little bit of it on screen, and and it was premature, but he always had something in the back of his mind that he was cooking up, and he was absolutely over his Christian music life.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: He he he was it was just a uh a necessary component for him in a way.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that the fame and fortune that came with that was a nuisance to him.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: He had better things to do than you know count his money.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, he turned all his money over to a board of trustees and he took a$24,000 a year salary.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: So he was credible, he's the real McCoy.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I saw checks for$85,000 on his dash, you know, in his truck.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'd never seen a check that big in my life.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it it's just funny how God uh had burdened him with um serving his people.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was Rich's gig.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he wanted to to create congregational music, he wanted to create congregational getting together, he wanted to create uh environments where people could get together.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was a very forceful creative guy.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, one of our tours, we we always sponsored uh compassion actually sponsored us, is is probably the way it really went.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: But we did a compassion uh appeal every night for you know years, six or eight years.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I was only there for seven, so it had to be seven.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: But that was a big piece of it.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And one year, the whole year's tour, I think it was the Brothers Keeper tour, we set aside uh a certain bit of whatever gate profit that we could throw in the pot with the compassion sign-up totals, and we raised about$75,000 to build a elementary school in Columbia, in rural uh Columbia.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I know his mind, he was not uh not a dummy.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he knew what that money could achieve, and he was gonna execute that.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that's why I say it's kind of a sad thing that he had an early departure because I feel like his his music would have changed uh to the rep to the rest of us.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: It would have, I think what he was working on would have seemed very different.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Though he still was a singer-songwriter, but he wrote a lot of what I would call show tunes.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he lot, he wrote a lot of uh songs that fit into a theme.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: So he would take, for example, there's one that's on you know, public access, I'm sure.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Beth Lutz has a Rich Mullins early music archive on YouTube, and in that archive is a series of maybe 10 or 12 songs on the crucifixion.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they're really hard to hear because they're on the crucifixion.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we need we want to avoid death in our life.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: So uh he had thematic goals in his life.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um And I think he had every intention to execute them.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even the Jesus record, he was in a hurry to get that thing done because in his head, we were, he had already done it.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like the the uh the the tragic uh reality is that once you write the songs, then you have to record them, then you have to mix them, then you have to get your photograph made, then you have to tour them, then you have to go through the promotion and marketing bandwagon.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: He hated everything after writing.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I think it would have been interesting because I saw him, especially towards the end of his life, as a 10 pen alley guy.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he I said, Rich, I'm doing a book on prayer.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: Would you be willing to uh write a song and contribute a piece?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he did.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's uncanny what he delivered.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, in fact, it was almost unpublishable because it was uh it was a a piece of writing about prayer, all right, but it was a piece of writing about the prayer that didn't get answered.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a very frustrating piece of writing, which my publisher was like, we can't print this.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't know any better, but I I can tell you that, you know, when it comes to Rich, um, I don't have near the angst that he had.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's why my art is is never gonna be as good, you know, the songwriting side.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that kind of pissed off, grievance, angsty disposition.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: My life, I'm an optimist, man.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love my life.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: I love my wife.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: I am happy.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there it's hard for me to find, uh, other than my physical maladies, it's hard for me to find uh a place of sadness to write these, you know, this art that comes from hardship, you know, though my life has been a hard scrabble life.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we barely make ends meet.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, creatively, I feel virile as a 20-year-old.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just every day.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, do you know the name Brown Bannister?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do, I do.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Brown is a producer, and he's a dear friend of mine.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he was here on Saturday, and I haven't seen him in years, and he's got some physical ailments and and he that he's dealing with.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: And but when he was in here, he was like, dude, where do you get this?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I played him a bunch of songs, I showed him my art.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, we just kind of had a great exchange, friendly visit, and he's like, dude, keep it up, you know, how does that faucet stay on?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's interesting.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think most people don't think about the the idea that once a song is created and recorded and all that, that that an artist might actually get sick of that.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about particularly like the legacy acts, you know, if you think like okay, the Eagles or Springsteen or Elton John, you know, these acts that have been around from like the 70s and 80s are journey where they are world famous, and no matter what you do, you can never escape like those core dozens of dogs.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they have to that's it.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think from the outside you think, oh, they've got all this wealth and fame and all this stuff, but isn't there an element to that where you're it's kind of like a prison that you can never escape?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it really is.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I could personalize that slightly with Rich because he's he's one of maybe three artists that I played with who are quite notorious and and and remarkably famous.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Rich wrote a song called Awesome God early in his career um that he absolutely hated having a lot of time.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Many times I would have never guessed that he'd hated it.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: We had to do it every night, and he would turn out he would turn around and tell me what he thought.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I won't repeat what he thought, but I'm telling you, he he was both thankful and regretful because he felt like that one squeaked through and it wasn't good enough.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it was also the song that provided him the freedom that he enjoyed because it created wealth uh inadvertently in his life and the and the people around him.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, like Sing Your Praise to the Lord, a song that he did like and was surprised when Amy cut it.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I wasn't around, I didn't know either one of those people at that time, but I know from personal recount accounts from both of them that it was uh a surprise.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Rich had no idea that she would record it, and she had no idea that it would be a smash over decades.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, Rich uh he he also taught me something about not letting your left hand know what your right hand is doing.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you know what I mean by that.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, even though awesome God and sing your praise to the Lord, and there are probably others that I'm I'm not sure what those those would be, maybe step-by-step, uh co-write with Beaker.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe there are others that that are in the the litany of songs that we sing in church.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um he had no aspiration to write those to make money.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so the money in a in a funny way, and the success and notoriety, like I told you earlier, were really a thorn that he had to carry, a burden that now I've never heard that point of view from Amy.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Amy was glad to find it, and you know, Amy just she's a little bit more like me, uh, optimistic, and she just loves people.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the fact that it it did what it did and continues to do what it does is just, you know, a privilege to be uh be in the in the place that you know, she would never take um responsibility for its success, is what I'm saying.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: She just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and God used her.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I I guess I aspire to that that kind of thing too, which is where I I get the don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing, because the the fact is that maybe if we just keep going, I mean that's the I think I told you earlier, but I get up every day and I make work, I write, I paint, and I make music, and I don't really look back.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna let somebody else help me curate that.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: When it's time to do a show, I have the curator of the art gallery come over.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: I let them pick the 15 pieces that they want.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And no questions.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to sell them the one that I'm favorite of.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, same with music, you know.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just I just finished a record with some friends, and you know, we wrote 17 songs and only cut 10.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, two of them were kind of favorites of mine, but I I recognize that in this setting, five of us were trying to decide what to do with it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, that's my story.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we got to do a two-part show because you probably got some questions.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm up for that.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually going to I am frequently uh I'm in St.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: Louis, but I'm frequently in Nashville.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, come see me.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would I would love to.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's the best way to set something up, something like that up?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be there actually.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Text me.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just text me and give me some options time-wise.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: We can find a window.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see you.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love to see your artwork in person.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're more than welcome to come by.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: That would be an absolute blast.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'll look forward to seeing you.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: All right, sounds great.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Have a great rest of the day with the grandkids.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: See you, Kim.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thanks so much.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, wasn't that a fantastic conversation with Jimmy?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of those conversations where you kind of need to go back and listen to it again because he's just dropping these little, he's giving you these little droplets of wisdom, just like a rain shower.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like this constant uh stream of wisdom coming through his mind uh as we're talking.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really enjoyed this conversation.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to thank Jimmy for taking the time out to have this chat with me.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to thank Cindy Morgan for the intro to Jimmy.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want to encourage everybody listening to go to Jimmy's website.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's really, really cool.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's Jimmyabeg.com.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's Jimmy A-B-E-G-G dot com.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure and check out his art and music and all the cool stuff.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, my friend, I appreciate you listening to this podcast.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's lots of other shows you could be listening to, but it means the world to me that you're taking time out of your day and your life to listen to the Daily Rider podcast.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: So as always, I appreciate you so much.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I will see you next time.