Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 752: How to Make People Laugh & Cry with Your Screenwriting with Eduardo Cisneros

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IFH 752: How to Make People Laugh & Cry with Your Screenwriting with Eduardo Cisneros · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Indie Film Huscle
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Podcast, Episode number seven fifty two. Writers aren't exactly people. They are
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a whole bunch of people trying to be one person. F Scott Fitzgerald broadcasting
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from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where
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we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles
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of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,
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Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble
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host Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Film Entrepreneur.
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How to turn your independent film into a profitable business. It's harder today than
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ebook, and of course audiobook. If you want to order it, just
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head over to www. Dot filmbiz book dot com. That's film bizbook dot
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com. Well, guys, today on the show we have screenwriter and producer
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Eduardo Cisnettos and he is one of the creators of the massive crossover hit Instructions
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not included. And Eduardo has this amazing perspective of his point of view as
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a screenwriter because he started off his career in Mexico and rose the ranks in
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the Mexican television and filmmaking market when he worked for big Television networks down there,
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as well as working on SNL Mexico Edition, which I didn't even know
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there existed such a thing, but there is, and we talk about that
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in the episode as well. But he also teamed up with the biggest comedy
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star in the Latin world even to this day, is Ohano de Bres And
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with that time that he spent with Ohano, he learned a tremendous amount about
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storytelling and they worked well together and they brought again instructions not guaranteed, and
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he also helped them with Overboard with Anna Faris and how to be a Latin
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Lover and w are those again. Perspective on comedy and how to tell stories
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has a deeper meaning than just making you laugh. He is trying to help
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change the stereotypes of Latinos and LATINX people inside of the American culture, and
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his new movie Half Brothers, which he co wrote with Jason Schuman, does
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that and much much more. It's an extremely entertaining film that you can watch
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regardless of your background and how you were raised. And that's what I love
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about what Eduardo and Jason are doing with their films. So without any further
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ado, please enjoy my conversation with Eduardo Cetos. I'd like to welcome the
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show. Eduardo Cetos. How you doing, my friend? I'm pretty good.
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How are you doing? I'm as good as I can be in this
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upside down world that we live in today. Yeah, isn't it wonderful?
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It is? It's something, it's something, it's something like like I like
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I said, the mole people haven't risen up and Atlantis hasn't hasn't risen either
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to take over the world just yet. But that's the only thing missing from
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twenty twenty honestly, Aliens, aliens, meteor Yeah, what else is there?
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Well, they found this big sculpture of like a Buddha and then has
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had like a dead person inside. Did you see that? And I'm like,
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have not leave that? Leave that alone. This is not the year,
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Like, please put it back in the ground, like bury that stuff,
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Like I don't think I can handle anymore of that stuff. Don't open
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that today, just so that like just let just let Indiana Jones just close
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the door and walk away slowly, slowly, let close it and then wow
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a Brendan Razier Brendan Fraser reference. I appreciate that. Yeah, I got
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an old school mummy, all sorts of stuff I learned my sleep Man.
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Well, listen, thanks so much for being on the show Man. I'm
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so excited to have a screenwriter, but also a Latino screenwriter, because we
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don't get many of those on the show, and as a Latino filmmaker.
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When I found out about you, I was like, yes, yes,
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I'd love to have him on the show. And let's let's talk screenwriting from
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your perspective, sir. So before we get started, how did you get
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into this ridiculous business? Good question, you know, I was born and
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raised in Mexico, and in Mexico and I would say in the Spanish language
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world radio is a big thing. So I always wanted to be a filmmaker,
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but we have less avenues, you know, to get to that goal.
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So my first opportunity was as a radio DJ, and specifically because a
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lot of the radio there is very driven towards like comedy and humor wouldnot so
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I would write sketches for radio. That's basically what you would call it.
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So when I moved to Mexico City, which is a bigger hub of entertainment
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in Latin America, and the springboard, and I first started going around the
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radio stations who produced a lot of content, but it was all comedy.
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So I started writing, you know, I took my tapes in my scripts,
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and people liked what I did and they hired me. And I happen
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to cross spats with one of henny other business staff writers, and Heeno was
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already at the top of his career of the and he hasn't climmed down since
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then. But it was, I would say, the first peak on the
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series of peaks. So I was fortunate enough that because of those funny stuff
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that I'd written for radio, then I was then brought on to write TV.
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I'm summarized. It was a little bit of a track from very very
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baby junior level writer to a full time staff writer for Henya. But that's
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that's that's how it happened. And yeah, generally it's not the overnight like,
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yeah, just one day I got this and the next day I'm a
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staff writer. It just kind of worked out that one. Yeah, Now,
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what is it like being a staff writer for at Heno and and also
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and just a staff writer because you're a staff writer basically for anything he does
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or was a specific show. How does that work now? When you're it's
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a weird system and I rarely I mean, I don't think that I will
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experience anything in my life like that as a writer. And I also think
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it's a very different experience for any writers. I don't know how many people
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in the world would have a situation like this, but because he is,
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but even more so, at the time, he was a big commodity for
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Televisa, which is the biggest network and the only game in town for decades,
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and he was their biggest star, so they let him hire two or
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three writers full time whose job was only to write for anything that he did.
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So he was always surrounded by a team of two or three writers,
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which meant if he had a TV show, then you would write for a
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TV show. If he was dubbing a movie, then you would add some
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jokes. If he was going to do some kind of public experience appearance he
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would have a speech, then you would have to help him write like you
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were, you'd be at his best twenty four to seven full year round,
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didn't matter if he was shooting a show or not. So But the reason
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why I think it's also unique it was because he he basically, I was
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an artist who shaped pop culture in Mexico. So it was a very very
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bizarre experience with you were right a sketch and sometimes it was like a one
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off thing where his show was on hiatus, but he wanted to make fun
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of something that happened, so we would write a sketch, shoot it and
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put it in some morning show or something, and it would be water cooler
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conversation. This was pre Twitter kids, this was pre social media days.
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So you would go out on the street, you would go to the supermarket,
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you would go to the gym, and everybody was talking about this thing.
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It was like Game of Throats or sign or Seinfeldt back in the day.
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I always tell people that it was the most imortant thing was Sinfield,
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Becausehenya was not only very commercially successful, but he was also admired because his
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brand of humor was very different, very observational and smart compared to other comedians
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in Mexico. So that was very bizarre, and we had another taste of
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it when instructions that included came out and we'd get to that in a minute.
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But I was in Mexico City work in another project with Rheno when instructuring
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that include came out of Mexico. We'll be right back after a word from
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our sponsor, and now back to the show. And I decided to live
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a more New York style way of life. I ditched my car and I
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would take public transit to the office every day and from my almost like from
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my door, like my house, public transit, going to the gym,
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then go to the office. Everybody was talking about the movie, so it
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is. It's a very weird, and it's also very gratifying as a writer
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that you create something and you put something on the Sketch Show where he shows
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up at an award ceremony and he does a funny thing and everybody's talking about
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it the next day. It's also big responsibility, but it was. It
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was a great experience. So so for people who don't know who Hanne is,
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he's He's and Annie. He he's like, like you said, a
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cultural icon in Mexico, and then he has crossed over. He's done movies
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like Instructions not included like Overboard, who was with what's her name? Annas?
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Thank you Anna Pharis Yes, which is also which was a remake of
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an old Kurt Russell Goldiehn film back in the eighties, and he's actually done,
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He's been in a bunch of American movies, so he has definitely crossed
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over. So the equivalent, so for everyone listening, it's the equivalent of
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you getting a staff position with Seinfeld in the height of his powers in the
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nineties, basically where he anything you wrote people saw and we're talking about and
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you were just there in that that hurricane, in the center of the storm,
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and it was it was weird experience because the truth is I was I
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was barely out of college. I was very young, as in my early
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twenties. I did go I mean I did get the what to call a
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media degree in Mexico for my Matcheter's degree, So I I studied everything.
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Then I took a specific production workshop and I went to New yorkilm Academy in
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New York A shot a bunch of short films. So I was always geared
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toward filmmaking and writing. But to have a job like that within a year
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or two of graduating college, it's insane. And it's only so much that
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I thought, Oh, this is what life is going to be like.
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This is the life of a writer. It's going to be amazing. This
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is the first two or three years of my career. Wait until you see.
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Uh. But you know it didn't it didn't work out that Yeah.
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Yeah, generally, when when when I had a small amount of success,
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when I came into the business and I was making crazy money as an editor,
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and I'm like, oh, this is just the way it is,
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right, You just you just roll hard like this until it's one day the
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gravy train stops. Yeah, and you have no control. You're you're waiting
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there for the phone to ring and uh and it's not ringing. Uh,
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and you're like, oh, I guess I have to find a way to
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pay the bills. So it's yeah, it's a very eye opening, humbling
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humbling. It's a humbling. It's very humbling. This business, this business
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will with this business will definitely bring you to your knees. Uh. Every
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and I don't care who you are, Everybody that it happens to every megastar
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in the world, every success story, they all get humbled to their knees
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at one point or another in their career. Right. You know, it's
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not only never too big, you're never too big to to follow in your
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house. You're never too big, too to eat humble bipe so and by
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the way, the first person told me that was Henny on me. He
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wanted to warn me. He was saying he would always say, there's always
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going to be someone around the corner who's funnier than you, who is more
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charismatic than you. So don't past don't you know, don't don't take these
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things for granted, like, always make sure that you're always putting out the
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best version of the work. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
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you know. He's like, you're like a kid, and you're like,
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yes, dad, you know, Like, but he it worked for
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him. So I was like, oh, I guess I should start paying
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attention to what the successful man is saying. Oh to be young, to
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be you I know, Oh my god, I learned my lesson. So
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so you you were, you were Tell me how you were involved with Instructions
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not included, which was uh, I think Oheno's first big hit here in
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the States, and you know, it was released by I think Lionsgate at
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the time, so it was a it was a big release. It was
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a big release for the film. So how did you get involved with it.
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Well, I was. It was we started writing the movie at that
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point, precisely in the early odds where we were writing this show and we
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were writing about I was writing a bunch of stuff for Hennu. But within
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that team of two or three writers, I just happened to be the person
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who had studied more, you know, in regards to screenwriter, who's more
15:13
interested in film. So when he said, you know, he called us
15:18
to his office and he said, you know, I'm the most successful comedian
15:24
on TV. But at the time, there was no real commercial film business
15:30
in Mexico. It was all our house amores we made. They made like
15:37
four or five movies a year. And he said, like, all those
15:39
directors don't take me seriously, so I'm going to have to come up with
15:43
my own script of the movie. And he talked about his idea, and
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I was one of the one of the only people who was like, yeah,
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I really would like to do that. It was it was at the
15:54
time, it was kind of like a vanity project. He might as well
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have said I want to record an album, you know, Like it was
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one of those things where you're like, all right, sounds like why Ancher?
16:03
And then we talked about, So him and I got a little more
16:07
time to talk about the movies we liked and at the time were very We're
16:11
very inspired by all the movies that came from Italy right in Ginama, Paradiso,
16:18
Life Is Beautiful and Ill Postino, like all these movies that were very
16:26
unabashedly emotional and cheesy and corny, but there were also had like they had
16:32
papers and depth, and they also had a streak of comedy and that kind
16:38
of jive very well with the Latino sensibility. So he wanted to do that.
16:45
He wanted to show that he could do he uses comedic chops but also
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make people cry. So we started watching all those movies, and then he
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partnered up with Gonzalez compagn who produced on his Perros, and he brought on
17:02
like a more seasoned screenwriter to kind of so we can break the story together.
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And then eventually, after a couple of drafts where there was a bit
17:14
of a story, then Henny and I and another of his writers with Pepe,
17:19
we worked on the script for another four years after that, again because
17:25
of Henney is a perfectionist, and we would do draft after draft until we
17:29
would get every scene to his liking, and even then after five six years,
17:37
if you could believe this, still we couldn't find people to who would
17:41
think that o'henno was a movie star. And I laughed because there's really nobody
17:48
bigger than him at the moment in the Spanish language world. But at the
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time we're like, nah, who wants to put money on the handle the
17:55
bit movie in. But the thing is like I would spend so much time
17:59
with him that I would see firsthand how people responded to him and how the
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effect. So it was like I think that I think there's a little bit
18:08
of snobbery going on back then, sou. But long story short, we
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got to make the movie and it came out and it was a great experience.
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At the time, I had already moved to La, I had learned
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my lesson, I had. I just I think that I decided to cross
18:26
over before the movie came out, So by the time it came out,
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I already had an agent, and also it was in a position to kind
18:33
of like capitalize the success of the movie. But you know, I'm thankful
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that it came out when it did and it did the way it did.
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Yeah, it was it was a huge success, especially in the in the
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Spanish speaking world here in the States, but also found a bigger audience.
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It's not just the Latinos who went out to see it. I mean a
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lot of other cultures have seeing it because it's just such a beautiful film.
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It really really is a beautiful film. Uh. And I my wife and
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I just loved it when we saw it. Now, you you also worked
19:07
with SNL, but Mexico's SNL. Right, I've never spoken to anyone who's
19:12
worked with any an SNL outside of here in the state. So what's it
19:17
like? Like? Is it just another sketch comedy show, but with obviously
19:21
with a Mexican twist to it. How is that? How's the whole thing
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work? Well? Uh so at the time, and I was telling you
19:29
that I was in Mexico City at the time. The reason why I was
19:32
there because I was already in La But you called me and said we're doing
19:36
SNL, and I was all right, I'll be there. So I you
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know, he relocated me to Mexico City, uh to work on this project.
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And he got the rights, he had the rights to do the SNL
19:48
franchise, which I didn't know existed, by the way, I didn't know
19:51
that SNL had turned into this thing where they had an SNL in Korea,
19:56
Brazil and one in Spain. We'll be right back after a word from our
20:03
sponsor. And now back to the show, which, funny enough, it's
20:11
on Thursday nights. But hey, each one's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah,
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But so they because they've done this a few times now, Broadway Video
20:27
has a whole weight, whole system to kind of train you to do this,
20:33
and they explain the process to you and then you sit down and watch
20:36
this video of like behind the scenes of step by step holp to put the
20:41
show together. And then when we turned around and tried to put it together,
20:47
they sent Horatios Sands to work with us along the way. They also
20:52
sent somebody from Second City to make sure that we were kind of building upon
21:00
all these tenets of improv comedy there the core of s and now. And
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it also happened that so when I moved to the US and I try to
21:11
cross over, I was hoping for things to go as as quickly and as
21:15
well as they did when I moved to Mexico City. That was not the
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case. So I said, you know what, I have to prepare as
21:23
much as possible. And I went to n y U and took a bunch
21:29
of screenwriting classes. I took every class that I could. There was a
21:33
pink called Media this stro I don't know if it still exists, but I
21:34
would like. I went through those like simulations of writers room that they did
21:40
with like real writers from like the Simpsons and whatnot. But one of the
21:42
most important things that that I did was taken improv and I went I joined
21:48
UCB, I completed the program. I joined a couple of teams. So
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I was one of those annoying people that would go like, Hey, you
21:56
gotta come watch my improv show. I was me. I was I was
22:00
that. I was that l A guy. At least it wasn't a one
22:03
man show. I mean, this is an improption because there's there's the improv
22:06
show, and then there's like, hey, what can you come see my
22:07
one man show? And I have and I have been to an l a
22:11
one man show or one woman show, and it is it's it's it's kind
22:18
of like a right, a passage of rights here and rights. Yeah,
22:23
I think I would still I think if I have to choose. I would
22:26
rather do the band because at least you're like, what's it's music? They
22:32
can always play a cover or something. But yeah, there was one man
22:37
show. It's like the one man on stage, another just another one man
22:40
in the audience, and that's it's a show for one man. That's exactly
22:45
exactly. No, it was not no woman show. So so because I
22:51
had that training, I was also able to transmit some of that too,
22:56
because there is very little improv comedy in Latin America and in Mexico it's growing
23:03
more, but at the time, this was a few years ago, there
23:07
are very few improv uh companies there. So I had improv training and I
23:14
used that. So that was a great experience and and it was a lot
23:18
of it was being truthful to to the brand, which is being topical,
23:22
which is being political, uh, you know, knowing how to you know,
23:29
capitalize on whatever's happening at the moment. So it was a great experience.
23:33
Yes, that sounds awesome. Now you've you've written a lot of different
23:38
you know, comedy and characters. What is, especially in the future world
23:44
or even in script to television, what is how do you create a memorable
23:48
leading character for comedy. I think that the one of the things that was
23:59
I heard that was more helpful or was more often than not, a script
24:07
problem is a character problem, right, And I realized that it was a
24:12
very helpful thing to learn in general, but specifically for comedy, because when
24:18
you have a character in comedy that has a strong point of view and that
24:25
you know what they think about the world and you know what they do in
24:29
a moment of crisis, then it's it becomes easier all of a sudden to
24:37
write. And then I used to, you know, because when I was
24:40
in Mexico after I been part of my what I call it the It was
24:48
kind of like my karate kid training, which I was kind of training without
24:52
really knowing what I was training. But I was working as a consultant for
24:56
Sony Television in Latin America, and part of my job was, uh to
25:00
do something like you see like the Everybody Loves Raymond documentary with Phil Roussell Bill
25:04
Ye to Russia. Yeah was so great, so great. So I was
25:08
working exactly with that with that company, doing exactly that. But for Latin
25:12
America, I would take the nanny or what you know, what have you?
25:17
Right? So a lot of I went through a lot of character Bible,
25:19
serious Bibles, and I was exposed in a short amount of time to
25:26
a lot of the engines of very different shows. And in the process I
25:32
had to train writers. And some of the exercises that I would give them,
25:37
one of them was and you can ask a question and then now write
25:45
the answer according to each one of the characters from the Simpsons, Right,
25:49
So the characters on the Simpsons are so well defined that you know what the
25:53
answer is going to be, Like, you know what Homer's going to be,
25:56
you know what this is going to say, you know what Bar's going
25:57
to say. So that's a great sample of what you want to do in
26:00
comedy. You want to make sure that every one of your characters has such
26:04
a specific point of view that the audience knows what that point of view is.
26:11
But also they will be surprised and kind of looking forward to see how
26:15
they're going to express their point. So it's more about what how Karen unwilling
26:21
Grace is, you know, expressing what they have to say? How you
26:26
know it's a ray, like how each person on TV, you know what
26:32
they think. You're just waiting to see how they're going to express that point
26:34
of view that you know. So as a writer, I think creating a
26:41
TV show or creating a feature comedy where the character has a strong point of
26:48
view is essential. You really need to know that before you start doing any
26:55
more writing. And I would say in TV is even more important because characters
27:02
are even more important than story on TV, Like, people will forgive a
27:07
bad story, but if if it's a character they love, they will watch
27:11
them do anything. They will watch them make coffee if it's an interesting character.
27:17
So from a comedic point of view, think that's that's that's very helpful.
27:21
Did you ever watch Breaking Bad? I watched the pilot? You watch
27:26
the pilot? Okay, yes, sorry, there is there isn't the reason
27:30
why we can't we have to end the interview now, obviously. No.
27:37
So there was an episode in that series, a very famous episode where they
27:41
basically sat around and follow the fly the entire episode and they like talked a
27:48
bunch and they just and it was it was honestly the worst. It's like
27:51
a legendarily worst episode of the entire series. Other than that and maybe a
27:55
couple of other episodes, it's almost a flawless series. But the reason why
28:00
you stick with something like that is because you love the characters. Because if
28:03
that was a new show, you're like, oh, hell no, I'm
28:06
out of here. But you you know, but I never thought of it
28:10
that way that with comedy specifically. You know, you go through all of
28:14
television, especially comedy and television not as much in because in features, the
28:18
character can change. They have a point of view, like Axel Foley has
28:21
a point of view, but he changes. You know, you want them
28:25
to change. It's a transformation machine, right right, So a movie that's
28:29
the distinction by television. But Seinfeld is Seinfeld, and Kramer is Kramer,
28:36
and uh, you know Monica from Friends is and and they don't change.
28:41
They might change a little bit, but overall, that point of view of
28:45
who that character is never leave. So if you are writing for television,
28:48
especially comedy, you definitely have to hold on to that point of view.
28:53
Yeah, without question. Now with comedy too, you know, I don't
28:57
know if it's as much. I'd love to hear thoughts about it. The
29:00
villain or the antagonist. You know, a lot of times comedy the antagonist
29:04
is not a Darth Vader style figure. It could be the situation. It
29:08
could be you know, odds or things like that, but like airplane,
29:15
you know which, all I have to say is the word airplane, and
29:18
everyone just laughs because if you see that, it's just such a brilliant film.
29:22
But there is no villain. There is the plane's going to crash.
29:26
That is the antagonist. The plane almost as becomes the antagonist. So when
29:32
you're writing comedy, either for television or or features, what's the key to
29:37
a good antagonist, whether that be a situation or actual character. Well,
29:41
uh, there's two things. I think the key to any antagonist in any
29:48
particular format is you just have to be able to see the story from their
29:55
point of view, because everybody's the hero of their own story. Right,
30:00
we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to
30:07
the show. So you have to understand why this person. Nobody just thinks
30:15
to be evil, right, unless you're really writing a cut show or writing
30:18
that cartoon. If tonally that's what it is, all right, But for
30:23
the most part, for a TV show, you would probably want something that
30:26
is a more granded I'm like, what is what is the why is this
30:30
character doing what they do? What? What? Why do they see themselves
30:33
as the hero of the story. But even going further than that, I
30:38
think that in comedy, the main antagonist is always that the main character.
30:48
They usually in comedy, the reason why we laugh is because we see that
30:53
this person is undermined by their own character flaws. Right. So if you
31:02
think about the comedic version of to your point, like the you know,
31:06
the airplane, it's not the airplane's fault that all these people are idiots,
31:07
right. So it's the same thing that if you're in a car with for
31:12
comedic character with strong point of view and they get a flat tire, you
31:17
know that because they're incompetent or because they have such character flaws that this thing
31:22
is just going to snowball into anybody walking three hours in the de you know,
31:26
like if they didn't they if they didn't have these character flaws that were
31:33
undermining them at every step, they would it would be Jack Bauer, right,
31:37
it would be like twenty four be people who are like fixing. I
31:40
think usually in comedy is a way for us to highlight how in life we
31:45
are the first person to step on toes. Right. So yeah, so
31:52
that's I mean, it's the road Runner story like he's he's in the end
31:59
is like, yeah, the road Runners can be smart, but this guy's
32:01
thanks so stubborn in in such an idiot so and just we laugh at that,
32:09
right exactly. And I always thought I always thought the Roadrunner was the
32:13
villain personally in that film, in those shorts, because I feel I feel
32:15
for wildly, so badly. Actually, on the other day on Facebook,
32:20
I actually saw a meme where there was a coyote who actually had a Roadrunner
32:22
in their mouth, Like, my god, he finally did it. It
32:27
was just so brilliant. Thanks God, finally did it. But that's really
32:31
that's interesting because I never really kind of thought about the point of view.
32:37
I mean the flaws. You know, if you look at a movie like
32:38
Hangover, which is a classic now, you know, each of them have
32:44
a very distinct point of view. Each of them have a belief system and
32:47
what Zach Zach galfan Akis's belief system is just brilliant. But the combination of
32:55
those those points of views is when you get thrown into those point of views,
33:01
they kind of change a bit, but they they they stay, they
33:05
are who they are at the end. They definitely have changed a bit,
33:08
but those point of views have stayed pretty solid, but that point, but
33:12
those point of views is like you said that the flat the flat tire,
33:16
Like, Okay, that's where the comedy comes in. If I'm trying to
33:21
dissect the comedy a bit more, and I just want to kind of dig
33:24
into your brain a little bit, but you're you're you're bringing it up in
33:28
my head now that it it is, uh, it's coming clearer to me.
33:31
I hope the audience is getting clear as well, or at least picking
33:35
up a couple of nuggets along the way about what makes what's funny? Because
33:39
you know, a dude stepping on a banana peel and falling, well,
33:43
that's funny. But when you but when you actually get that point of view
33:47
of who that guy is and a backstory, then it becomes even funnier.
33:52
And then that's you know, when it comes to movie, I mean,
33:55
think about the best comedies out there, what I considers and if you are
34:02
of those people who believe like I am, that you know after the midpoint
34:08
in the second act, and I'm glad I can take talking to the specific
34:12
terms for all the notes out there, but like after your midpoint is specific
34:16
the second act, you want to obviously raise your stakes, right, and
34:22
if you are writing a superhero movie, that's what they call the bad guys
34:24
close in, Like this is more like an external villain coming in and you
34:30
know, coming closer to where you are. In a comedy, it's more
34:35
about like how can I put this schmuck or how can you bring this all
34:40
the all the character flaws in this character that they're gonna just you have to
34:45
face them with those shortcomings to the point that you're going to push them to
34:50
that turn. So one of the best examples out there is groundhout Day right,
34:55
which I think is one of the best screenplays when it comes to a
35:00
comedy, and he is really leaning into almost like the worst of him in
35:06
the second act is really coming out, and it just gets to a point
35:09
that but what happens, like it pushes him so hard that he can't over
35:15
It's not until he is able to see those shortcomings that he's a jerk and
35:19
selfish and uses everybody to his to his own agenda, and that he's able
35:25
to change as a character. But before that, he's blind and he's going
35:30
he's repeating the save behavior literally in the definition of insanity, right, like
35:34
repeating the saved havebor and and you know he wants to kill himself, he
35:37
can't, right, So that's that to me, Like, look at every
35:43
comedy with with that has a strong, committed point of view, and you
35:46
will find that that's the part where you're really challenging your main character because the
35:52
comedy, the first half, we're going to have all the laughs, but
35:57
then the second half is just gonna be a little more challenging because this person's
36:02
gonna make everything very difficult for themselves. Yeah, what I love, And
36:07
then that's that's only when there will change, right, Yeah, I mean
36:09
what I love about Groundhog's Day it is It is, by the way,
36:13
top five comedy scripts ever written. I mean, it's and performed and that
36:16
movie is an absolute masterpiece. But put yourself in that's an error, which
36:21
I know everybody in the world whoever watches that movie puts themselves in that scenario,
36:23
like what would I do if I had to do everything again? And
36:28
a lot of us would probably just do that, Like we would go down
36:30
those kind of those places, especially I mean especially the younger. You are,
36:35
absolutely but you just go to he gets to a point where He's like,
36:38
I've I've eaten everything I can eat. I've enjoyed every spoil I can
36:43
enjoy. I've I've slept with every woman that's in this town that I want
36:46
to sleep with. I've stolen all the money, I've had all the experiences,
36:51
and it's not fulfilling me. Until he finally gets to a wall where
36:53
he actually just gives up and he goes, I got it. I gotta
36:58
change. I gotta do something else because this thing is not letting me get
37:01
off the hook. I can't kill myself, I can't go anywhere. That's
37:05
the brilliance of that script and that story, that character, and to at
37:08
the end he does finally Beca's like, maybe I should do something better myself,
37:12
So I'll learn how to play piano. I you know, I learned
37:14
how to I sculpt. It starts and then starts helping people all the way.
37:16
It is such a wonderful, wonderful I'm sorry, I'm geeking ou about
37:22
Groundhoks Day with you. I'm so no obsolutely. I mean, I can
37:23
talk about GROUNDHOWK Day well, Groundhoks Day all day, but as I think,
37:29
I don't know if it applies to every genre because I've had the opportunity
37:31
now to do. But I think when it comes to just a straight comedy,
37:36
pure comedy, you I like the idea. And in Mexico we have
37:40
a saying ah means like I don't want more cheese. I just want to
37:47
get out of this mouse trap. Right, So to me, that's the
37:51
moment where the character is like, I don't want the cheese anymore, just
37:54
get me out of the mouse trap. And I think Groundhogs Day is an
37:58
example. And when you watch Everybody goes and watch to watch Half Brothers,
38:04
you will see uh, you know you, and even the trailer, you
38:07
get an idea. This, this character that we set out of the place
38:12
is very judgmental. He thinks he's like on a higher level than everybody else,
38:16
and we found a very external manifestation of that. He's an Aviasian engineer,
38:22
right, he's literally flying about everybody else. So when you without spoiling
38:27
much, but I think and that after the midpoint, you will find him
38:30
really trapped in this place where he just he doesn't want anything else but to
38:35
get out of the mouse trap. And his biggest enemy is not even going
38:38
to be this half brother is just going to be his own shortcomings as a
38:43
character. Right, So I'm hoping that you get to watch it soon and
38:50
then well then I'm really happy to geek out and the mechanics of the script.
38:54
So so that's a wonderful segue, sir, into your new It was
39:00
very subtle. No, no, actually, but no. Half Brothers is
39:04
your new film? Which can you tell everybody a little bit about what the
39:07
movie is about. I saw the trailer of it. It looks it looks
39:12
fantastic. I'm dying to see it, I really am. It's definitely a
39:15
Friday night, Saturday night, you know, movie night with your with your
39:19
spouse kind of film, at least for us. But it's funny, it
39:22
looks great. So tell a little bit of everybody about what it is Half
39:25
Brothers. I'm I'm very proud of this movie. I'm very happy with with
39:30
with the work that everybody did in a movie. Obviously not only myself,
39:36
but like I think we got a brilliant team and this movie was a chat
39:46
right because Rob and I feel like the road movie is often seen as low
39:52
hanging through right, like, oh, put two peple on a car,
39:54
get them from me to be how hard can that be right, We'll be
40:00
right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
40:09
And it's precisely the simplicity of it that makes it super challenging. So
40:17
I approached this the way I started approaching everything since Ohane's were resonating in my
40:25
head. I just prepared along with my writing partner. We just prepared even
40:30
before we wrote the first scene, to be as familiar with this genre as
40:37
possible, and we watched every version as from the most biggest commercial comedy to
40:45
the smallest, more esoteric in deep worn like. We watched everything to see
40:52
what worked, what didn't work, So that went behind the and I think
40:58
it was worth it. The other circumstance that was very special about this movie
41:04
was that in a world where you know, we know that the studios are
41:09
more and more inclined to buy IP and superhero movies and this, and that
41:15
this was an original pitch that we presented to Focus Features, who don't get
41:22
into producing that movie that easily right. They're very very picky about what they
41:28
produced in house. It's normally either co production or just an acquisition. So
41:36
we were very lucky that they believed believed in the pitch. They bought the
41:42
pitch and they developed it with us, and that was also extremely helpful because
41:47
these are people who have excellent taste in movies, who very experienced, and
41:54
who were again because I was kind of coming off the actually literal really started
42:00
flushing out this idea right after around the time Instruction that included came out.
42:05
So it was in this wave again of thinking about all those nineties movies from
42:08
Merrimax that inspired me, and I was like, well, we don't really
42:13
see those movies anymore, and part of it is because you know the people,
42:19
yeah, exactly, But leaving that aside, I think that you know,
42:23
there was there was something not cynical at all about those movies, and
42:30
I think that the pendulum right now is still in a very darker cynical side
42:36
of the spectrum. But I think because of the times we're living in,
42:37
I'm like, I think it's time for a movie that where's it's feelings on
42:43
its sleeve. So well, long story short, we developed the script and
42:49
we were aiming for a similar thing. If you watch Destructions, there are
42:53
difficult tonal shifts that might look seem less because we were great hard but they're
43:00
very tough too, and everybody, the people who love enjoy the movie,
43:05
and luckily it's been the majority of people who watched it, even in script
43:09
form, they said, I just love that and one minute I'm laughing my
43:15
ass off, and then next one or two minutes later, I'm crying with
43:19
this character genuinely going from and I'm like, well, that's life, right,
43:23
isn't that where we live? Like we started out storytelling with tragedy and
43:29
comedy, and I think it's become more and more and more and more complex.
43:31
I think we start need to start make me mixing the suite with the
43:35
savory. You know, we need to start mixing one thing with the other
43:37
and see what comes out of it. So this is all to say that
43:40
that was a way of trying to do that, and apparently we did something
43:45
good because people are responding very positively to the movie. And how was it
43:51
working with your writing partner Jason, Because Jason was on my show Indie Film
43:54
Hustle with his film, his son Dance Film back in I think two three
44:00
years ago now, Catchuring the Rye, and I had a pleasure of talking
44:05
to him and he was when I was speaking to him, he was starting
44:07
to take writing seriously. He's been a producer for a long time and he
44:12
wanted to start writing. He's like, you know what, I'm going to
44:15
start writing and this is what I'm gonna do. So how did you guys
44:17
get together? And then what is the process? Because I've only written.
44:22
I've written with partners before, but I generally they didn't work out because I
44:25
have I have I realized that I write well by myself. I can,
44:31
I can what you McCall it. I could collaborate, but like the actual
44:37
writing part process, how did that work out with you? Well, again,
44:42
this happened right around the time that Instructions That Included came out, and
44:45
luckily, uh Samfrapanache who ran Fox International at the time, the international production
44:52
division of Fox. He I said, luckily, he knew what my role
45:02
had been shepherding instructure done Included creatively even before the movie came out. He
45:09
was familiar with the process, and so when the movie came out it was
45:14
a hit. He offered me a two picture deal. So I wrote my
45:19
first movie for them, and then when it came the time to write my
45:24
second movie out of my two picture deal, he said, you have to
45:30
meet this guy, Jason Schumann. He's a producer, he wants to be
45:35
a writer, et cetera. So I think you guys have a similar sensibility.
45:38
And I was like, all right, why not? So we I
45:44
you know, when you're in Hollywood, you have like a hundred meetings like
45:45
this. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, there's one of those general
45:51
meetings where you liked sitting there awkwardly. It's almost like one of those blind
45:55
date. It's a blind date. Actually it's a blind date, but to
46:00
me, it's almost like a playdate where you're like, your mom and this
46:04
other woman are really good friends with you. Now you have to play with
46:07
this kid. You might not even like them. You're like, I'm stuck
46:10
here with the sucker. All right, where do you get? Right?
46:14
So, but in this case, it just we started talking and he came.
46:20
He came very well prepared. He came with like ten log lines that
46:23
he had and it was going one of it and you know, after the
46:25
other end of my no, no, and then at the end he's just
46:31
started telling me this story that happened to him once. And I'm like,
46:36
oh, that that could be that's a good you know, jumping up point
46:39
for a story, and we started flushing it out and we sold it and
46:44
we wrote it for Fox, and that script has changed hands and now it's
46:50
now it searts light. But I don't know what's going to happen to that
46:52
story. But you know, regardless of what happens to to that script,
46:58
we found that we just had so, you know, good chemistry writing.
47:01
And it's also so great after years of being on my own with the laptop
47:07
and inside my head to have somebody to expeditt the process where you're like going
47:14
back and forth and ping pong, you know, mentally, and then something
47:19
great comes out. I've been paired up with writers before, especially you know,
47:22
working for Henry or this, and that you're always like, all right,
47:24
you too have to work on this, and you do your best,
47:28
but you're like, I'm not enjoying this at all. Like I have to
47:31
have ideas that are very clear in my head. Now, how to explain
47:35
this to this person. I don't understand what they're saying. I'm definitely not
47:39
laughing at their jokes. So this was it just all I don't know it
47:46
was And and he's a really nice person. And I also think that I
47:54
again, I keep mentioning Henny because he's such a formative person in my life
48:00
and as an artist and professionally. But Henny is such a nice person to
48:02
everybody, and he's the biggest start out there, and I'm like, if
48:07
he can be the biggest came in town and in the biggest person in that
48:09
market and be remember your name and say hi to you and each person in
48:15
the room and treat them with dignity, like, I want to be that
48:19
person too, you know, absolutely, So I think Jason shares that value.
48:22
So we're like, I want to work with them. I want to
48:24
work with h somebody who's who shares those values as well, not only creatively
48:30
on the page, but also how to behave as a human being. So
48:32
that's important. So so this is essentially a buddy a buddy comedy essentially correct?
48:37
Yes, So what what is what makes a good buddy comedy a good
48:46
buddy buddy buddy comedy comedy? It's I think what makes the the comedy work.
48:54
It's again it goes back to to POV. You go back to point
49:00
of view. What I find useful when it comes to writing any story,
49:07
but also comedy is just to know what you're talking about, right, to
49:13
know what your movie is about, and to know what is the subject matter.
49:20
And for a comedy, what you want is two people who have different
49:25
ways to approach this same subject matter, whether it's fame or love or sex.
49:34
What you want a posting points of view. But at the same time
49:37
they have to have complementary abilities so they kind of meet each other. So
49:47
again you have to decide what your tone is. But there is a Filamina
49:54
one of the movies that I watched and that it was very glenchitt also and
50:00
right and half Brothers will be right back after a word from our sponsor.
50:08
And now back to the show. Steve Coogan is I think a comedic genius.
50:15
I love the whole Trip series. That's a roadue movie series on its
50:20
own. And but what makes the movie even more than whatever their mystery they're
50:25
trying to unveil, as uh, Judy Dench and her point of view,
50:32
and she's this very quote unquote simple woman who's very earnest, and she's has
50:39
all this faith and she's superstitious and this and that, and this super skeptical,
50:46
cynical, snarky British guy who's Steve Coogan, and so the interaction of
50:52
the two of them, whatever they do, they can follow the fly,
50:55
right. I think that the sparks that are flying from the conflicting point of
51:00
view, I think that I think that's what what makes the comedy work.
51:07
So something like so something like forty eight hours. You know, you have
51:10
very two different point of views with Eddie Murphy and Nicknolty's characters and Lethal Weapon
51:15
and and obviously half brothers as well. Their point of views is very very
51:22
distinct. And you and you actually like the main character. When you see
51:28
him, you can tell he's uptight, he's an up tight he's an uptight
51:31
dude, and then you just put the complete mirror image of him. The
51:36
other dude's like what uh, it's like very very so you just want to
51:39
see the uptight dude get poked constantly. And it's even funnier when and the
51:45
other guy. I think it's funnier too when the other guy doesn't even realize
51:50
he's poking them. And look, I'm just doing it. I'm just doing
51:52
me, man, I didn't mean to What do you mean? Is it's
51:55
wrong to run with a goat? Yeah? Just having the goat does not
52:00
make the goat. That was beautiful, by the way, I love that,
52:02
like having a goat as part of like walking around with the coat is
52:07
amazing, great image. But again I think, you know, you're giving
52:12
me a good opportunity to talk as an example of what is your subject matter?
52:19
Right, But we're really we were really trying to keep always and always
52:25
in her sight that this was a movie about empathy and about the ability to
52:31
put yourself in somebody else's shoes, which run out. The main character completely
52:40
lacks right. He's very uptight. He thinks he's the smartest person in the
52:44
room all the time. He thinks he's very hard working, self made,
52:49
and obviously what life is going to give him is the chance to meet is
52:53
half brother who's completely opposite or what he thinks. He is completely opposite,
52:58
right, because Ronato uh was born in Mexico, his father left, never
53:05
came back. Him and his mom had to fend for themselves, and he
53:07
was he's himself. He's himself, like a self made man, and everything
53:12
that he has like because he busted his ass and so he has no patience
53:16
for excuses, he has no patience for people, no drive, and then
53:20
lo and behold, he has this what he perceived was his green go brother.
53:24
You know, this millennial kid who's like wants to be an influencer and
53:29
you know, make money really quick. And he's also a person with a
53:32
lot of empathy. He's a little bleeding hard person who's like, loves animals
53:37
and the planet and culturally sensitive like all those things. So it's the right
53:44
kind of person that will test his patience. And he would not be anywhere
53:49
near a person like that if it were not for the circumstances of the movie.
53:52
So that was that was a lot of fun to write. And when
53:57
when is the movie coming up? December forth? In Peters and whatever is
54:02
safe to go to the move Peters and I'm I mean there's also driving in
54:09
Peters, et cetera. I again, this is the movie. It came
54:13
out of watching all those movies that we talked about, all the films from
54:19
the nineties, and a lot of it is a collective experience, right,
54:22
like a movie that's a little democratic that we can all enjoy together and share
54:27
the laugh and you know, the laughter, the emotion, the tears.
54:32
So I'm hoping that people get to do that whenever it's prudent to do so,
54:40
and that do they find a way to enjoy it and as a collective
54:45
experience. And I'm gonna ask a few questions, ask all my guests,
54:49
what are three screenplays every screenwriter should read? I mean, it won't be
54:59
a your grapesell so just off the top of your off the top of your
55:01
head, there's a few that I love. I love twenty eight Days.
55:09
Yeah, Sandra Bullock the movie. You know she didn't write it. This
55:16
is Santa Grant. I think it's the writer, if I'm not mistaken.
55:20
That's a great dynamic character that I feel in this script form they do a
55:25
great job of earning every step of her turn without hitting you in the head
55:32
with anything. By using all these tools from AA and recovery, it's a
55:38
great it's a very smart way to show you how this character is evolving in
55:44
a in a in a way that they need to evolve. Well, it
55:49
turns sunshine of the spot this mind. It is another one. Well,
55:53
I mean, Charlie Kaffin is a general statement anything Charlie Coffin, I feel
55:59
like should I say that? And Groundhogs Day obviously we spoke about Groundhog's Day
56:04
yeah, I'm almos deliberately trying to not mention movies reference so I can get
56:08
a little bit more room. But uh, I mean Casablanca probably. And
56:20
in the comedy I no, no, I always tell people like, if
56:24
you want, if you want good comedy to Blazing Saddles, you can't go
56:28
wrong with Blazing Saddles. Yes, I have almost anything, Mail Brooks,
56:32
Spaceballs, even robinhood menon tits good stuff. Man. Well I think,
56:39
you know, I think the South Park movie has a what an amazing what
56:45
Anything they do is amazing and they're amazing, amazing writers. And here's the
56:52
other thing with comedy, it's it's it's so personal to that. And we
56:59
live in a world and is becoming more and more personal because you can cater
57:02
so specifically the comedy that you consume to your taste, and because the content
57:08
content exists right before. You're like, well there's there's there's one studio movie
57:13
and this so we there's five comedies. That's it. There's five comedies this
57:16
year. Yeah, exactly, what for TV networks and that's whatever. Now
57:22
there's like all these other avenues and all these other platforms, and you can
57:27
if you're like a queer, brown Latino, blah blah, bilingual. There's
57:30
something for you. So there's a platform for you, sir, for you
57:37
exactly exactly with a seventh day free trial. So that's why studio comedies are
57:45
suffering a little bit, because now comedy has become so such an individual experience,
57:50
right, But again then again, like if you can at some point
57:54
hit gold when you find the right comedy and people do like being a room
57:59
with other people when when it's normal to do so. Again, but you
58:02
have that experience again, I say comedy and horror when you do get a
58:07
good one and you're in a room with other people in screaming and you're laughing
58:13
out loud. That's such a great catharsis that when you find it and it's
58:16
good and smart and well made. I think it's good and there will be
58:21
more of us, yes, hopefully soon, hopefully soon. Now, what
58:25
is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film
58:29
business or in life? How to keep interviews short? How to get to
58:38
with my answer? So I don't think I've learned that lesson. And we
58:43
love you for that, sir, We love you for that. And if
58:46
and what do you have anything else coming out soon? Or are you working
58:50
on anything else? I'm more getting in a short circuit. I think we're
58:54
talking another hour about it. Are you working on Short Circuit? The reboot?
59:00
Yes? And I want to say this because I've read this when when
59:05
the Move, when the news came out. This is a movie that I
59:08
loved as a kid, and it's been offered a lot of remakes after instruction
59:13
included, a lot of things came my way. I've turned down many remakes
59:16
because because it's just tough to write a remake. It's really it really is.
59:23
And it's not that I'm like this great amount of dignity, which I
59:29
want to think I do, but it's more like I want to do a
59:30
great job. I want to do a great job writing the script. It's
59:32
just really tough. But when I learned that the rights were available, and
59:39
a light bulb when you know, off in my hand and I'm like,
59:44
oh, I got it, I know what it is. And on top
59:49
of that, because I am I'm a brown guy, Latino man, I'm
59:53
always going to tell stories from that perspective. So it wasn't like, oh,
59:58
I'm going to brown stuff stamp this story, and I'm gonna like just
1:00:00
take this old story and put it which happens a lot. We'll be right
1:00:07
back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
1:00:15
In this case, I'm very passionate. I think Jason and I have found
1:00:19
a very special new take on the story, and even more so to see
1:00:27
when the context of LATINX characters, which we rarely ever get to claim anything
1:00:32
that is fantasy or comedy, So if I can call DIBs in that sense,
1:00:38
it's really amazing. So this is where we're working. We're writing a
1:00:45
remake. Well, I've spoken to John on the show, John Baham,
1:00:49
the original director of the original Short Circuit, many times, and John's just
1:00:53
a treasure and a wealth of knowledge and and I've told them so many times.
1:00:58
Short Circuits like one of my favorite eighties movie, Like when I saw
1:01:00
when I saw that when I was I was what fifth grade? I think
1:01:05
when I was when I saw that, So it was like Johnny five,
1:01:07
Johnny, Oh my god, it was amazing. So I'm looking forward to
1:01:09
seeing your your you and Jason's new take on it. It could it could
1:01:14
definitely use with an update. It didn't didn't Age definitely a movie of it's
1:01:19
time, so I'm really curious to see what you do with it. But
1:01:22
thank you so much about it for being on the show. I appreciate what
1:01:24
you're doing. I can't wait to see Half Brothers and I hope everybody goes
1:01:29
out and sees it. My friend, thank you so much, Thank you.
1:01:32
I want to thank you Weather so much for being on the show and
1:01:36
sharing his screenwriting journey with the tribe today. Thank you so much, Eduardo.
1:01:40
If you want to get links to anything we talked about in this episode,
1:01:44
please head over to the show notes at any film also dot com forward
1:01:46
slash seven fifty two, and if you have it already, please head over
1:01:50
to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe and leave a good review for the show.
1:01:55
It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so
1:01:59
much for listening. Guys, as always, keep that hustle going, keep
1:02:01
that dream alive, Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
1:02:06
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