Latest / Speak In Flow / How to Conquer Your Fear Of Public Speaking and Thrive With Lynn Kirkham

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How to Conquer Your Fear Of Public Speaking and Thrive With Lynn Kirkham · Speak In Flow

0:04
Melinda Lee: Hello, welcome to the speak in flow Podcast. Today
0:09
I have the complete honour and pleasure of introducing my
0:14
mentor, someone who I own. I owe the world's who she's the queen
0:20
in my world. She has transformed me. Her name is Lynn Kirkham.
0:25
She's the founder of yes, you can speak for over 14 years,
0:29
helped 1000s of leaders, executives, entrepreneurs to
0:34
help them overcome their fear of public speaking, and really
0:39
catapults their truth potential. She is a TEDx, Berkeley speaker
0:45
coach, she in 2017, inducted to the Hall of happiness, which I
0:51
think is so cool. She's so much to me. And I brought her on
0:56
because I know that she is at the forefront of what public
0:59
speaking means. And there's so much that we can all learn from
1:03
her and her experiences, and what she's done for her clients,
1:08
and so many people in our community. Welcome, Lynne to the
1:11
podcast. Good to see you.
1:14
Lynn Kirkham: Oh, my gosh, Melinda, thank you. It's great
1:16
to see you. I'm so excited for this conversation.
1:19
Melinda Lee: I am to, you've helped 1000s of leaders, so many
1:24
achieve so much success and true results. When asked you
1:30
something just specific one client, if you could just be
1:33
able to think of one client that just comes up for you, because I
1:36
liked for the club, the audience to hear the the real
1:40
transformation that you can achieve, just to one client that
1:44
has really struggled with public speaking, and what you have done
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to help this
1:49
Lynn Kirkham: person? Oh, sure. Sure. Sure, sure. Gosh, this
1:54
brings to mind, someone by the name of Ed. And he's he went
2:00
through my programme, four years ago, four years ago. And he
2:07
actually called me last week to work with him on on something
2:12
other than speaking. And what he told me is that the word changed
2:19
his life so much because he was an engineer. And he used to
2:23
speak, looking at his shoes. He's like, I was a typical
2:27
engineer, or, you know, when I had to stand up and speak, I
2:31
looked at my shoes.
2:33
Melinda Lee: There it safer there than these eyes.
2:37
Lynn Kirkham: Exactly. And I would, I would kind of like
2:39
shuffle my feet. And, and, and he hated being in the spotlight.
2:44
He just hated it. Yeah. And. And he knew that he needed to rise.
2:50
And so it was either do or die. Right, you know, his career was
2:54
at stake. And he needed he needed to shift it up. And what
3:00
we realised after talking is that, you know, he grew up in an
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environment that was difficult, right, he had a parent that was
3:11
really difficult and not as loving or compassionate as he
3:15
needed. And because of that, it created some trauma on the
3:20
inside. And it made him doubt himself. And, and the doubts
3:26
would come up when the stakes were the highest, right? When he
3:29
was in front of his boss or his boss's boss, or in front of
3:32
customers, or, you know, if you had to present, God forbid, he
3:38
had to present at a conference, you know, that's when all the
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doubts would come up. And so he came to me, and he just said,
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Oh, my gosh, we got to do something about this. And so we
3:47
did. And fast forward four years later, he founded his own
3:52
company. He left the corporate world, he founded his own
3:55
company. And no, not only did he found a great company, but he
4:01
has raised over $300 million in funding, which you cannot do if
4:07
you're looking at your shoes. No way so so he basically changed
4:13
his whole life, which is so cool. And there is nothing more
4:16
exciting to me. And I know the same for you will end up because
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we've worked together so much is that when that light turns on
4:24
inside of somebody, it it's like magic and magic, right? And we
4:31
just get goosebumps because it's it's like that pure potential
4:35
that somebody is that they've, you know, just kept in a little
4:39
box is now released. And it's the most beautiful thing. Yeah.
4:43
Melinda Lee: I mean, because I was a speaker coach. I was
4:45
actually marketing myself as a speaker coach, and I was like,
4:49
Oh, I'm pretty good. I'm confident. But then once I met
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you, you really you took it, you took it so much deeper. You're
4:58
able to help me out eliminate my own negative thoughts. My own
5:03
inner critic, which was still so high, it was like, You're not
5:06
good enough? Who are you to speak? You're not smart enough
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that was running for many, many years, because my dad always
5:13
told me you're not smart enough. And I believe that. And so if I
5:16
had that belief inside me how, who am I to stand up in front of
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an audience and really shine. But when you worked with me to
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eliminate to let go of that old belief, I remember the day I
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felt it, I felt my whole body light up. I was like, Oh, my
5:34
gosh, I'm here with my audience. And I feel free. I feel like I
5:40
could just communicate and talk and be with them. It's a
5:44
completely different experience, to speak, and just communicate
5:48
and say the words and still have an inner critic, versus Hey, not
5:53
have that inner critic anymore, and just communicate and just
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be, I'm here. And so I'm sure I mean, can you tell me a little
6:02
bit and then you it sounds like with this with the guy with the
6:04
engineer, he had the same a lot of trauma from family, a lot of
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beliefs or beliefs, because of the mom. And then once we've
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helped them identify and let them go, he was, yeah,
6:20
Lynn Kirkham: yeah. But just to get back to you for one second,
6:22
okay. You know, once you let go of all that stuff, and you're
6:27
able to just be, as you said, in front of people, yeah. You, you
6:34
were able to tap into a flow state. Yes. And tapping into a
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flow state is one of the most beautiful things, you know, it's
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like, it's like, you're just sailing, it's just you've caught
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the wind. And it's, you know, it's just the perfect breeze.
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It's not too fast, it's not too slow. It's just perfect. And
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you're gliding, and you're connected, you're connected
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with, you know, if you were literally out on a sailboat,
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you'd be connected to the elements, right, you connected
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to the water connected to the air, connected just to
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everything around you. And, and what's really cool is that when
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you're now in front of people, Melinda, I've seen it happen so
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many times with you, where you do step into a flow state and
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you stay connected, no matter what you stay connected to your
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heart, you stay connected to the audience, and then you just
7:28
trust, which is not what you were able to do before because
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of all the trauma because of what your dad told you. You
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weren't able to trust that you could step into a flow state
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because that's scary like to. Because for a lot of us, it
7:45
feels like we're giving up control.
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Melinda Lee: Mm hmm. If we're just letting go, we're giving up
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control of what is known.
7:56
Lynn Kirkham: If you don't try really hard, yeah, then the
7:59
words aren't going to come out. Right? And then you're again,
8:03
not going to be smart enough.
8:05
Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah. Because when we let go, we don't know
8:09
what's gonna happen. And then and then they might see us, they
8:12
might see that we're not smart enough. And then it's done. So
8:17
it's like almost almost like training wheels. It feels like
8:20
training wheels to be in a box where when we write out our
8:23
script, or we practice and practice and practice, and we're
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just really not letting go to trust our words, because we're
8:29
so used to practising our content. And then we just stay
8:35
there. Yeah, I
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Lynn Kirkham: remember, I used to practice like crazy. I know.
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You know, every word had to be perfectly scripted. And my
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problem is that I've got a pretty poor memory. You know, I
8:52
would try to memorise and, and that just didn't work. I
8:57
remember I remember going to toastmasters one day, I was in a
9:01
club and and when I went to toastmasters like I don't know,
9:06
20 years ago or something. We didn't have to memorise you
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know, we could have notes up there and we could just, you
9:13
know, we couldn't read it. But we could do, we didn't have to
9:16
memorise every single word and and in recent time, they really
9:22
want you to memorise and I remember going to memorise every
9:26
word and just go up. Hey, yeah, read right now. Yeah, I know. I
9:33
know. So anyway, it was just oh my gosh, this lovely guy. He was
9:41
just he was just a lovely young man. And he was giving his
9:46
speech. And you could tell us that he wouldn't speak this way.
9:53
You could tell he wouldn't naturally, you know if he was
9:56
having a conversation with you. Same story. He wouldn't say
9:59
that. words that he wrote in that speech. And I'm like, Oh,
10:04
wow, it's pretty perfectly. Right. It didn't feel authentic
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to me then. But I was quite impressed with how he was able
10:15
to perform because it really was performance. Okay, but then he
10:20
was three quarters of the way through it.
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And he forgot a word. Oh, gosh, he forgot a word. And he stood
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there. Yeah.
10:33
Yeah. And he, his face went red and purple. And oh, my gosh. And
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he literally had to start over could not start, like partway
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through. He didn't memorise it that way. So it completely
10:55
derailed him. So moral of the story is don't remember.
11:01
Melinda Lee: What do you think is happening at that moment when
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He completely forgot? What what do you think is getting
11:07
triggered in the body at that moment?
11:13
Lynn Kirkham: What I think it is. Now what it might have been,
11:17
is this need to be perfect? Yeah, totally. So I know I had
11:23
that perfection. Gene. I know you had the perfection, right?
11:26
Oh, yes. Right. And and most of the people that come to both you
11:30
and I, you know, they have the perfection gene so to speak.
11:35
Melinda Lee: Because we they care, like we care. Right?
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That's the worst part like we care, and then we want to be
11:41
perfect because we care so much.
11:43
Lynn Kirkham: Right? But then we also care so much about being
11:48
judged. Yes. Right. So it's not just caring for the audience.
11:52
Right? I mean, sorry about that. Yeah, we're just we're not
11:56
judged, right? We, when we boil it down, down to like, what's at
12:02
the core of it? It's don't judge me. Like, you know, you know,
12:06
that, that that thing that everybody who comes to you? And
12:09
I says, which is, oh, my gosh, when I up in front of a group,
12:15
all I can think of is what are they thinking of me? Right?
12:20
Don't you get that? Oh, total? Yes. Right. And that's
12:24
Melinda Lee: judgement from Yeah, where do you think those
12:26
thoughts come from?
12:27
Lynn Kirkham: Those thoughts come from not being good enough,
12:32
being told that you're not smart enough or good enough or being
12:35
compared to an older sibling, or, you know, not getting the
12:44
top grades, and then that not being okay. So we have been
12:49
conditioned into needing to be perfect in order to be accepted.
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It's really sad. A lot of us had parents that wanted the best for
13:02
us the absolute best for us, and they put very high expectations
13:07
on us, hoping that with those high expectations would would
13:13
get us the results that they were looking for, right, so that
13:21
it would help us as kids Excel, right? If we can excel and
13:26
exceed expectations, then you know, we're going to get an A or
13:29
we're going to get 100% on a test. And then that's going to
13:33
enable us to have opportunities that people that get lower
13:37
grades wouldn't have. And then that would enable us to get a
13:42
good job and make a lot of money and or enough money to sustain
13:48
ourselves. Right. So they just wanted the best for us. But in
13:54
their desperation, of wanting the best for us, sometimes they
13:59
came across harshly. And and then they weren't there to pick
14:05
up, pick us up off the floor when we failed. Because you
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know, when we're young, we mess up, it's good to be being a kid.
14:15
We just mess up and we're learning and sometimes we have
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to mess up doing the same thing several times before we get it.
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And, and when we don't have our parents or a caretaker that is
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there to pick us up and have compassion for us and love us.
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Even though we totally messed up. What happens is we get, you
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know, unprocessed emotion and trauma in our nervous system,
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which actually goes into the cells of our body. Which is
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really interesting. I didn't realise this for the longest
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time that trauma or unprocessed emotion is actually somewhere In
15:00
our body, it's not just in our head, you know, we can't think
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away these things we, we try, we tend to like, reminisce about
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something that happened. And we have the same thought, like 2000
15:13
times, right. And all that does is ingredient deeper and deeper.
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So what needs to happen is that, in order for us not to have that
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perfection gene, in order for us not to step out of a flow state,
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we need to figure out, like what happened and where we've stored
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this stuff in our in our body, and then give it voice so it can
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be released.
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Melinda Lee: I mean, because I've worked with so many clients
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is just you and with, with through the work that you've
15:44
taught us through is called the core repatterning process.
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Through this process, I've worked with many clients and
15:52
like they're 4050 years old. And they can remember when they were
15:57
five years old, and the mother got mad, because they didn't
16:02
clean everything up, you know, clean everything perfectly. Even
16:05
though the little boy a little girl felt like they tried to
16:08
clean everything up. And then the mom would just come into
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their dad would come in, you didn't do this, right. And they
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end the person at 40 or 50 years old can still have that visceral
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feeling in the body, just like what you're saying. The cells
16:20
remember it, it's stored in there. And so the person at 50
16:24
is about to cry, because they're thinking about that moment of
16:29
when they got yelled at. Or when they got ignored. And so it's a
16:34
visceral feeling. And, and that is why we try so hard in the
16:39
present moment when we're speaking or presenting to be
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perfect.
16:45
Lynn Kirkham: It's so true. It's so true. And unfortunately, when
16:50
we feel like we need to be perfect. What happens for most
16:54
of us is our heart closes, and our guard goes up. And the more
16:59
perfect we think we need to be in that moment. Which, which
17:03
naturally means opposite of who we are. Yeah. Like being perfect
17:07
is not who we are is not our natural state. Right. Our
17:10
natural state is imperfection.
17:13
Melinda Lee: But real and freedom and real. Yes,
17:16
authenticity. Yeah, imperfection. And I'm okay with
17:19
that.
17:20
But then right, but
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Lynn Kirkham: most people you know, when they're when they're
17:23
needing to be perfect. So not okay with being real, because,
17:27
you know, yeah, they're afraid they're gonna be judged, right?
17:32
Melinda Lee: We're afraid we're gonna be judged.
17:36
Lynn Kirkham: Yeah, and, and the key to becoming a really
17:39
captivating speaker is to not be perfect not to be as real as
17:46
real as you can be, like, the kind of realism that you are
17:51
with your friends. Yes, that's the whole goal is like, just
17:56
open and quirky. Quirky is because he is okay. It is okay,
18:03
we
18:03
Melinda Lee: needed we want it and being, you know, and then
18:07
imagine being able to be free, your quirkiness, your own
18:11
uniqueness in the spotlight.
18:14
You deserve that.
18:17
Lynn Kirkham: It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing.
18:19
Because here's the deal. The deal is, is that as much as we
18:23
think that we need to be perfect for people to respect us, right?
18:27
It's the opposite. When we are in the spotlight, and we're
18:31
perfect, right? We are not being ourselves, we're not being
18:36
ourselves, we are being some other version, we are being an
18:39
imposter, essentially. And putting a different
18:44
Melinda Lee: list of the listeners have probably felt
18:46
that before where you're like, How come when you talk in on
18:49
stage or in on the mic, you're somebody different. I'm there
18:54
like, they're, this is why so what Lynn and I are talking
18:57
about this is what is happening and this is why the deeper
19:00
meaning of what is going on, when you get out to the stage or
19:03
when you're presenting you're becoming somebody different
19:06
because you are trying so hard to be perfect. You're trying so
19:10
hard to get it right, every single word or all the content
19:14
or pretend that you know at all, we just want you to be okay to
19:20
be you.
19:22
Lynn Kirkham: In the end that's that's
19:24
why you were put on the planet put on the planet to be
19:27
ourselves. There's something that happens you know, we call
19:31
it the spotlight effect where we get into the spotlight and then
19:34
some weird takes over our whole body mind spirit, you know, it's
19:39
just like what just happened? You know, needing to feel
19:41
perfect and and do it right. But when we are that way, we
19:46
completely disconnect from ourselves. We disconnect from
19:49
our audience, we disconnect from being in service to them, which
19:53
if you want to move them you've got to be in service to them. So
19:57
the ah so for me anybody listening to this? My biggest
20:04
prayer for you is if you have the same types of responses,
20:11
right? If you feel like you need to be perfect. If you could
20:14
figure out what what is it that happened to you? What is it that
20:19
happened to you that gets triggered in your nervous system
20:23
today? Is it because your mom didn't listen to you is because
20:27
your dad was hard on you? Is it because you were bullied in
20:30
school? Oh, my gosh, Melinda, I don't know how many people you
20:35
have worked with, that have been bullied. Yeah. But it's, it's
20:39
huge. And, you know, when you're bullied as a, as a child, it
20:46
makes you really feel like you don't belong. And when you don't
20:50
belong, you don't fit in you, you can't connect, and you're an
20:56
M belonging, oh my gosh, it's our deepest need. Our deepest
21:01
need is to belong. And when we don't belong, it sends up just
21:08
panic in our in our system. And so, especially for anybody
21:14
listening to this that has been bullied is released the trauma
21:19
of it. Yeah, because there's a part of your nervous system that
21:23
will never trust people, right? Because your friends, your
21:27
peers, your peers. They were not to be trusted when you were
21:33
young. And so something that happened when you were eight
21:36
years old on the playground can literally get triggered in your
21:39
nervous system today, when you're on stage, as crazy as
21:42
that sounds, it can get triggered. And when it does,
21:45
then all of your energy goes to your head, you completely
21:49
abandon your your heart, you abandon your presence, and that
21:54
is gone. It's gone.
21:57
Melinda Lee: Yeah, go ahead. And or you could send in like,
22:00
they're not going to like me, they're not going to like me,
22:02
you go into the situation thinking they're not gonna like
22:06
me. If you just you, you're automatically putting up a wall
22:11
without even knowing it. So it's a subconscious thing.
22:14
Lynn Kirkham: Right? It's so true. So for those who think
22:20
that way, what I would love for you all to do is just saying
22:25
they're gonna love me. Yeah. are gonna love me, honestly, that's
22:30
what I do. I know, Melinda, that's what you do. We go in, we
22:35
go in. So let's just say we're doing a training, you know,
22:38
Melinda and I do trainings together. And we always have
22:42
such a blast. And before we we begin, we have a lot. And we're
22:47
like, this is going to be the best day ever, ever, ever, ever,
22:52
we affirm that it is going to be the best training that we have
22:55
ever done in our entire lives. We don't know why we don't care
22:59
why, all we know is that that's what's going to happen. And we
23:03
anchor that into ourselves. And then we're like, we don't even
23:08
know what we're going to say. But we are going to be so
23:10
connected with our people, we are going to be in such service
23:14
to them, that the words are going to come through in exactly
23:18
the way that they need to hear them. And we trust and and from
23:22
that place where we're able to step into that flow state and
23:27
just have a blast. And the transformation happens like
23:30
that. Yes.
23:33
Melinda Lee: Oh, gosh. I love that. I love that. It's so true.
23:39
That's the magic. That's the beauty. That is the potential.
23:44
Right? That's the opportunity to have,
23:47
I can sit here for a long time and talk to you about this. We
23:52
could keep going and going. How like what do you have going on?
23:56
You have an interview like a pro programme, tell me more? How can
24:00
people get a hold of you? Oh,
24:04
Lynn Kirkham: gosh, yeah, we've got a programme called interview
24:08
like a pro. And that's four sessions for 90 minute sessions
24:12
group programme, where where if interviewing is is one of those
24:18
situations where you think you need to be perfect. And you've
24:22
erect that wall, we will help you to take the wall down, open
24:27
your heart and really connect to your interviewer and lead the
24:31
conversation and and do it in a way where they can actually see
24:36
you in the position. So they go to bat for you. Yeah,
24:42
Melinda Lee: earlier about the affirmation, right calling it in
24:45
calling the affirmation and then allowing also your interviewer
24:49
to even see you in it.
24:51
Lynn Kirkham: Yes, yes and help paint the picture for them. To
24:55
see it and based on your past experience or just based on your
24:59
accent. Ain't meant for the role. Are you painting that
25:02
picture so that they can see it and imagine it themselves? Is
25:07
really it's really, really powerful. Most people what's so
25:10
interesting is most people will just answer the questions.
25:13
Right? Willing to ask me a question, right? And then I'll
25:16
answer the question. Okay, what's the next question? And
25:20
then I'll answer that question. And, and most people, they don't
25:25
have a smile on their face. They're so stressed about
25:27
answering the questions perfectly, that they kind of
25:31
mess up. And they forget about the human to human connection,
25:36
whether it's on the phone or on Zoom or in person, it does not
25:39
matter. They need to feel your heart. They have to like you.
25:43
Like, seriously, they have to like you in order to go to bat
25:47
for you to hire you. Wow, that's smart.
25:52
Melinda Lee: I think then people forget about that. Because like
25:55
you said, there's so busy trying to answer the question, the
25:59
person in front of you has to like you first. So you got to
26:03
open up, open it up.
26:07
Lynn Kirkham: And let your quirkiness come through and let
26:09
your personality come through. Really, because they are hiring
26:12
you as a person of personality. Not a robot to do a job. Right.
26:18
So yeah, yeah. So you've got to be you like the you who you
26:23
would be if you're really comfortable. And so anyway, we
26:27
can get you there. It's for short weeks, it's really fun.
26:30
Melinda Lee: super fun, super cool. Because when you're you,
26:32
you, you end up talking about your skills and all your
26:35
capabilities so nicely, so fluidly. Anyways, like, it's
26:39
about you just showing up and being able to be confident about
26:43
you and your your skills. And so that's the beautiful part about
26:47
it, so that you don't just feel like your need to be perfect.
26:51
Lynn Kirkham: Yeah, and just how you would fit into the
26:53
organisation and asking them questions. You know, what do you
26:57
love about this place? What don't you love? Come on, be real
26:59
with me what's not so good? Because I want to know what's
27:03
underneath the covers now rather than later. Right? So you just,
27:07
but ask it in a way that that is really approachable, you know,
27:13
not intimidating, but it's like, Hey, I know the dirt. Because I
27:18
know you got it. Right. Yeah. So so we do that. And yeah, a bunch
27:24
of other stuff. But it's it's all around just
27:28
Unknown:
27:32
Lynn Kirkham: bringing you home, right? Because
27:36
Melinda Lee: totally, because I think we're in this corporate
27:38
environment or environments that does not allow that does not
27:42
allow that it shuts us down. With through the feedback, that
27:46
criticism, people overpowering each other, and how do we be us
27:52
and win in this type of environment
27:55
that we need, it's time we need more heart centred leaders to
28:00
feel good to do that. And feel confident to do that. You're
28:06
Lynn Kirkham: Yeah, it's it's like, well, corporate more than
28:09
ever needs card. Like it's missing heart. And it takes
28:15
courage. And it takes vulnerability to share your
28:19
heart. And it requires for most people it requires a letting go
28:26
of all the reasons why you have decided it's not safe to share
28:33
your heart that's not safe to be vulnerable. So yeah, so what
28:38
wherever you do it, whether it's with Melinda whether it's with
28:44
the gal down the street or you know some trauma release
28:48
therapist, just handle that part. handle that part, you
28:53
know, Melinda can do do the core repatterning in four sessions in
28:58
four sessions, she's able to help you release 20 or 25 events
29:05
in your life that are continuing to run you so there's nothing
29:11
that I've seen in my entire life and I've been studying this
29:14
stuff for probably 30 years now. There's nothing that I've seen
29:21
that can release trauma like the core repatterning technique and
29:26
you know Melinda you're expert at this, you're just you're so
29:30
intuitive and you're so spot on with why people hang on. Right
29:37
and you're really great at coming up with the exact words
29:42
that will help them to release it all.
29:47
Melinda Lee: It was all through your coaching and mentoring. I
29:49
wouldn't be here without you. Like I said earlier I feel free.
29:54
I feel myself I'm more in tune with my intuition and my body I
29:59
was so disc connected to my body because I was always in my head,
30:03
thinking about what to say over our spacing. And now I'm I feel
30:08
alignment. I feel embodied I can feel myself being in here and,
30:13
and experiencing around what is around me.
30:17
Lynn Kirkham: That's so beautiful.
30:18
That's so beautiful. That's why we're put on the earth right, is
30:21
to have that full sensory experience. And one more just in
30:26
our head. We miss most of what's happening. Totally.
30:31
Melinda Lee: I love you so much. I
30:33
love you. Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
30:36
Lynn Kirkham: Oh, I love you too. Oh my goodness. Oh my
30:40
goodness.
30:42
Melinda Lee: A lot of people know. I mean, I know so many
30:45
people that owe their worlds to Lynne currycomb, who was just
30:49
dedicated her life to helping all of us unlock the potential
30:53
in her voice and speak freely and unlock her own potential. So
30:58
reach out to Lynn or myself Lynne is you can do I give them
31:03
your website or?
31:04
Lynn Kirkham: Oh, sure, it's yesyoucanspeaknow.com
31:08
Melinda Lee: Yeah, yesyoucanspeaknow.com Check out
31:11
some of her programmes are amazing. I might even see you on
31:16
those programmes too. I'm one of our facilitators and teachers.
31:22
So thank you so much for sharing. We're free. We're free.
31:27
Thank you so much, one. Take care. Bye, everyone. Thanks for
31:32
listening. Bye everyone. Bye.