Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #612 Single and Catholic: Finding Meaning In Your State of Life, with Author Judy Keane

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#612 Single and Catholic: Finding Meaning In Your State of Life, with Author Judy Keane · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:10
  Speaker 2: I'm excited to be with Judy Keene and I just asked her.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I said, is it Kane or Keene?
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I have a.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: The reason is I used to own a lot of restaurants and there was a gentleman that would come in there.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: He owned a big car dealership, judy, and his name was spelt the way K-E-A-N-E and it was Kane.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: I always wanted to call him Keane.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: He would always say something to me.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: So a great, great guy.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Hey, listen, it's great to have you on the show.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you, I'm very, very happy to be here.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: You wrote a book some time ago.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: A friend of mine came across it again and he said, jack, you know you should have Judy on.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: You know the book resonated with me.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: He knew you already, I think somehow.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: But anyways, you wrote it a little while ago, but I thought I'd reach out to you.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting thing.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: We give a lot of talks in churches, of course, with the John Paul II Renewal Center, and as I'm giving parish missions, I noticed years ago, judy, that I would be talking about theology of the body and there's a part in there in Matthew 19, where Jesus would talk about divorce.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: And as I looked around the audience when I brought that up and he said you shouldn't divorce your wives, I looked around and people had that disappointing look and I realized there's a lot of people in that audience that are either single, divorced you had brought up right before we came on the show widowed.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: And tell us that statistic of the amount of Catholics today that are over 18, that are single.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: So when I was doing research for my book, I really wanted to track down that statistic of how many Catholic singles, what percentage of Catholic singles, are in the church today.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And the name of my book is Single and Catholic finding meaning in your state of life.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So finding your meaning in serving God's will as a single individual or living in the single state.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: And what I found out through the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, which is based out of Georgetown University in the Washington DC area, is that about 47% of the church today in the United States over the age of 18 are single or either single, never married, or when you add in the widowed and those who are widowed, it brings the number higher, and then those who are divorced and I would also add in who are separated.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So that is 46% of the church today in the United States over the age of 18.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's divorced and not remarried right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's a big number.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: So that's getting back to my parish mission story.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I learned that you have to be very careful when you bring up these kinds of issues because it can reach a real sore spot for people.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: People have gotten look at this sexual revolution from the 60s.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I grew up in that, I was, I was, I was a little boy and that was live and well.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: And growing up through the 60s and the 70s with that there's a lot of dysfunction came into relationships and to families that started not that there weren't, you know, going all the way back to Adam and Eve.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: We've had some issues, you know, but I realized you have to be very sensitive to these things.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: This can be a hard journey.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about your journey and how you ended up writing the book Single and Catholic.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: So I had.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I started out in life, like with many of the people I spoke with when I wrote the book Single and Catholic Well, thank you.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: So I started out in life, like with many of the people I spoke with when I wrote the book.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: I spoke with single Catholics from across the United States, those who were single and always wanted to marry, which I would put myself in that group.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: And then I wanted to reach though a broader swath, so I did want to speak to people who were living their Catholic faith as somebody who's been divorced and then living their Catholic faith as someone who has lost a spouse, whether that had been that they were married for a short time and they lost a spouse, or they had been married many, many years who had lost a spouse.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: But for my particular journey, I Now, in your case, Judy, you were never married, right?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Correct I have never been married.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I would have liked to have been married and I would have loved to have had children, but it just didn't happen that way.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I think God has chosen to bring me on a different path, and through prayer.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I certainly did date I was engaged at one point but through prayer I really feel that I am called to live in a single state during my life when you were dating the right guy just never came across because you said you were looking right, you would have liked to.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: You were even engaged once.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: What would you say at the end?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, these are hard things to sometimes discern, right?
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: You just say no.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Nobody really hit my heart the way I was expecting that I think so.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I mean there were a few heartbreaks along the line, that I think I could have been married to some individuals.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: It just didn't happen to work out.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: I was always praying to God.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: I think which is so important when you are dating is to ask God to show you whether this individual is going to be for you.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Looking back now, though, in hindsight, I realized those would not have been the best decisions for me.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Those would not have been the best spouses.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: In fact, one of them would have called me completely away from my faith because I was very young and I wasn't strong enough yet in my faith, and I really truly feel like I might have walked away from my faith in order to marry into a very non-denominational situation.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: So I can see how God guided me.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important when you are dating to pray.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: I do see how I really feel because I've always sought to do God's will, how God has led me down some very interesting paths in my life to serve others.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: And I think, no matter what state of life you're in married, single, divorced, widowed, religious you know, being called into the priesthood or religious life that the most important thing we can do is to seek to fulfill God's will and I've been brought into some very interesting positions.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: As we were talking before, I spent time overseas, just outside of Medjugorje, which is a Catholic pilgrimage spot.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I went over there during the Bosnian War for a couple of Catholic pilgrimages.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: I went over about three times, but because the Bosnian War was going on, we also turned those into humanitarian aid missions as well, and then I, on the fourth time I went over.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I went with the intention of only staying three months.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I had gotten a leave of absence from my job at that time and it turned into me being there two and a half years because I felt I needed to be there more than in the job I was in at the time, which I was a news producer at the time, broadcast news producer for what was then the ABC or CNN affiliate here in Arizona, and I wound up staying in Ursa, govina instead.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: I felt that I just there were opportunities there that I thought were just very unique.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: One of them was teaching English in a high school outside of Medjugorje, about 13 miles outside of Medjugorje, and that allowed me to continue to work in the refugee camps at the tail end of the war and then post-war, because the refugee camps don't immediately clear out after a war.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So I was able to continue on and stay and serve in that capacity there and then through other you know careers, coming back to the United States.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: After that I did not go back into broadcast news, I went into public relations and communications field and media relations field.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I kind of parlayed that knowledge.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And when do you think, judy, like when you know, when do you think it's, as far as you know, getting back, as far as getting back to the single and Catholic?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: When do you think that, or did it ever happen?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, if the right guy came across, would you still get married today?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Or when did you say, maybe this is going to be something that is going to be my life?
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Any kind of idea with that?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was around the time I was writing my book.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I had been engaged, just ironically, just prior to that and I did break off the engagement.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I just felt that it was not going to be the best situation for me going forward.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because a week to the day later I got a call from the publisher at Sophia Institute Press.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: I had been writing freelance articles for them about being single and Catholic on their website, Catholic Exchange.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I write for Catholic Exchange, so I'd written and they said you know the articles that you have written when you're talking about being single and Catholic.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: We really see a spike in readership on those.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So we feel that there's a real interest in those and we want to have you ask you if you could write a book specifically about being single and Catholic, and so they asked me to put together an outline.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I got them an outline in three days because it was all so up here.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I got them a book outline in three days and they said great, we like the outline, go ahead, you've got 10 months to write a book on being single and Catholic.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And that's when I started to think about that.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I wanted to interview the broader swath of people who are single and Catholic or living in, you know, in the single state.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: We know that if you've been married and not annulled, that in the eyes of the church you are, you are still married and that you would need to go through that annulment process and then, you know, through the tribunal they will determine whether it was a valid marriage or not.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: But I did want to speak to people who were living the Catholic faith from all walks of life.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: For that book I interviewed everybody, from a cattle rancher in South Dakota to a former Miss Universe contestant who was, like second runner up in the Miss Universe pageant, living their Catholic faith in wherever they, wherever God has placed them.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I interviewed people who had been recently divorced and those who had been divorced for a while.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I interviewed couples who were even engaged a few couples that were engaged.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: I spoke with priests and bishops about, you know, advice for single people or people living in various states.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: So that's all included in my book.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: So I wanted to get a broad variety and, again, to really write a book for that 46% of the church, because we don't really.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I'll be honest, homilies tend to talk about families, right, and there's an assumption, and it's very rare that you hear things specifically addressed from the pulpit for those who are divorced, who are widowed or who are single, or even among the prayers of the faithful that we hear during the masses.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've heard every now and then prayers for single people, which I always think is great, or those who are divorced or widowed, which I think is great.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: But I think we could, you know, as far as I have a book in my chapter called Forgotten Catholics, so would you?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: yeah, would you say that you know of the people that were never married?
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: you know that you interviewed that were, say, looking for a spouse, how do they, how do they reconcile that, you know, with?
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: You know, because I mean I speak on theology of the body a lot, and theology of the body is about love.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: You know we actually don't address the single.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: You know we're addressing priests and religious all the time, people that have given up this earthly marriage right, and kind of step into the saints and the mystics and everything, the tradition, through the church.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: We have the married people, or at least people that are seeking to be married.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: But I'm just thinking myself.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: I personally don't address that enough.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think you know the people that are, you know, seeking to be married, maybe, or wanted to be married, and either haven't found the right person for whatever reason, and time is maybe ticking down, right, I mean the, you know a woman especially feels that that kind of pressure.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: You know, when I'm speaking to them, right, I mean you get to to to say, you know, approaching 30 and then, and then mid 30s, and you realize, wow, you know, if this is going to happen, if I'm going to have children, a family, whatever, I mean, hi, that could be a sensitive thing.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I I like to talk to you a little bit about that.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: You know, what can we do better?
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: You know, in the church and our presentations, if I'm presenting to a whole parish, say, and you know there's singles in there right that would love to be married, you know how do you bridge that gap, or how would you, you know, or any advice to someone like me that's speaking about these things, and just say, hey, be sensitive to those people.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And this is what I'd say to them.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would be great if there was greater guidance around how one can approach life as a single person who would like to be married and it just doesn't seem to be happening for them, despite the fact that they may be trying.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: You know they may be on Catholic dating websites, but I think it's going back to the I you know, to prayer and to seeking God's will for your life.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I believe if God wants you to be married, that spouse will come at some point.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think God wants to you to stop looking or being open to it, but we have so many avenues that we can pray to God for his will to be done.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: You know we can.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: We can pray to, I've heard, you know, pray to St Joseph for a spouse.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: You know pray to Mary, the mother of God, for a spouse.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: We have so many rich aspects of our faith that we can tap into as single people.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: But I think the key thing and we don't really, you're right single Catholics are not addressed very much in the church.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest, not that I've seen on a personal level, and I also did work for the Bishop's Conference as their Director of Communications and I still felt that there could have been much more done as far as communications and reaching out to our Catholic single population, which is a big chunk of the church.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: But I think it's prayer, it's seeking to do God's will in your daily life and being open to what God wishes for you to do.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I think it took me a while to get to the point where I truly feel God wishes me to be single.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: So am I looking for somebody?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: No, but if someone happens to come into my life where it is so obvious that this individual has been brought into my life by the hand of God, then I would look at that because I'm still open to God's will every day.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: You never want to go down a strict path and have tunnel vision.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You've got to be open to God's will.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: It may not be God's will that you meet your spouse today, tomorrow, next week, this year, it could be a couple of years down the road, but if we're seeking to do God's will every day, then that's the most important thing, and that's true for any state of life, whether you're married, whether you're religious.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: It's seeking to do God's will and then being okay with what God wants you to do, In fact, embracing what God wants you to do.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Do most of the.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking you know women that you either interviewed or from your experience in life praying for discernment, right, and as they're praying for discernment, how much of the cultural effect, would you say?
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: And this may be difficult to answer, but, in other words, if I'm a young woman and, look, we're speaking to young women all the time, right?
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of selfishly asking this question too, because we talk about these things with them.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: They're discerning.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, they really don't want to get married today, right?
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So let's say, I'm 22, 23, 24.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I haven't started my career really yet.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: I want to explore, maybe getting a master's degree in business I just went through this with a young lady or go on to get my PhD in counseling or whatever, and so it's not the right time for me to get married.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: I met this guy, but I don't really know.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: So these are difficult things, right?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I wonder how much of that cultural effect has on them where they're delaying it and do they miss opportunities.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Judy, do you think or I mean again, maybe this is impossible to answer?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Do you know where I'm going with this?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, in some of my research I did look into that for the book and yes, there are women as a fact across the board, whether they're Catholic or not, are waiting longer to get married.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: There's economic realities in the fact that if you haven't met a spouse like let's, say right out's say, right out of college, you know, so get married, and then you've got the income of the husband supporting you.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: That's, that's great If you're ready, you know, to be married and you feel that is that works.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: However, if that doesn't happen, you may have, you know.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Let's look at the realities.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: You may have student loans you have to pay off.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: You are probably in an apartment by that age and you've got to pay the rent.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I think there's realities.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: The family structure as we knew it many decades ago has changed.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: So what would those women have done?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Women have to work to support themselves.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: That's just the reality of the times in which we live.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: When you say the family structure has changed.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: What are you thinking about with that?
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: In other words, what would those women have done a little bit previously?
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Would they stay at home until then?
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: What are you thinking when you say that the family structure has changed?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I think that the idea that you know the family structure, when we look back at like, let's just say, the sitcoms of the fifties, we know things started to change in the in the sixties quite a bit, but you had, you know, you had women getting married younger.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: That was a fact.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: If you were 25, 26, 27, back in the fifties you were kind of getting considered to be, you know, a little up there and kind of becoming a maid status, if you will, you know, spinster, but that's you know, when the husbands would be working and the women would be at home being homemakers.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Now what we're seeing interestingly, the other thing.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: let me ask you this, judy, I'm sorry.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I think the other thing is that when you said that I was thinking more, you know relationships among neighbors and communities and stuff were tighter.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I know that.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: You know, in the 50s I was born in the late 50s In the 50s and the early 60s were my neighborhood in Chicago.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, everybody knew, everybody knew everybody.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: So if a young man, if I was out looking for someone, some neighbor or somebody in this circle, would say, hey, jack, you know, have you ever met Judy?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Or whatever, right.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: And so the same thing would happen for women.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: You know, this is a really nice family, you know, what do you think about this guy?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Or you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and today you know.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and today we don't have that.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: If a woman goes off to say college at 18 years old, first of all that family structure is not as tight.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Now she goes off to college.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: That's a whole different circle again.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And it's amazing to me and this is the last thing I'll say to you my son went away to college and when he went away to college he roomed with five guys from Iowa.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: So he was from Chicago but he went to the University of Iowa.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: He ended up rooming with five guys from Iowa, these little towns in Iowa, for the whole four years and they loved being together.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: They became great friends and four of those five guys went back home to their little you know their towns small towns, not, not little, but you know fairly small uh towns in iowa to to to marry their high school sweetheart because they knew the family.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: They were uncomfortable, you know what I mean.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So these, these dynamics are not easy on people, are they they when they lose that kind of community structure?
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: I think you gave a great example and so many kids you know are going off to college and I'm going to throw in there too as well, because I did, you know, quite a bit of research on just social media and like the online dating.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: And this is, you know, just a quick example of when I worked for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, I took the Metro into work every day and I thought, great, this is going to be a great opportunity to really meet a lot of interesting people.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: We're riding in on the Metro pretty much going to do that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: It's going to be.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to get to chat with a lot of people and when I got on that metro everyone's doing this, yes, their phone and they're doing this.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: So there's this whole communication breakdown, because I don't you want to just say hey, hey, hey, I'm here.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Somebody say hi, right, you know, yeah, or a newspaper reading a newspaper, but I think really this, the, this has changed, so much because we're we're.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: There was a statistics that I came across that people are actually feeling, since these were ushered in and social media and all the social media platforms are actually feeling more disconnected than ever uh, amazing culture.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: We just don't have that, that sense of community Now.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: I was just a few days ago visiting the deep South.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I was in Jackson Mississippi a few days ago and there was a greater sense of community there.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: I just felt it, you just felt it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Now I'm in a large city, in Phoenix.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I do have a lot of friends here.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I've got you know, I think I've established a very strong network here, but it's still not the same.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: It's not the same as when I lived in that small town in Bosnia-Herzegovina, where you would see somebody on the street and they'd say, hey, let's go get a cup of coffee, and I'd say, sure, you know that's-.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: And then they'd say, hey, did you ever meet?
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: So-and-so and so-and-so.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how your circle yeah, I mean, it is that.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: And we have lost in so many respects that sense of community.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: That's a great point, so I do think it's harder, but still, I think you know people are meeting each other, you know.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I do think you know it's still happening because clearly people are still getting married.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: I do think it's Are these apps any good?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Are the Catholic?
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: You know there's Catholic dating apps and stuff, because here's what I hear.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: And look, I'm not an expert on Catholic dating apps or any dating apps, right, but I hear from young men and young women that these expectations for sex are always there, you know.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, are Catholic dating apps, judy, different than, say, some?
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: I don't even know the names of them, but I know the expectations are hey, if a young man takes you out for dinner, there's payback at the end, and it's very sad actually the way it is.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And are there any sites you can go on and say, well, at least I can meet somebody really that has my values?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: You know that has, because you say something about that.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: You said in your, at least you know, part of the book is explore the temptations and struggles that are unique to Catholic singles, right, temptations and struggles that are unique to Catholic singles, right, temptations and struggles that are unique to Catholic singles.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: And I was wondering, I wonder, what temptations and struggles are unique to single Catholics you were thinking about versus any single?
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: Are there any difference between any single person that has a moral?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: You know some kind of moral values that says that?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: You know, I just I don't date and go to bed in the first night.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: You know which sounds crude, but that's exactly what the expectations are sometimes.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I do think there's some good Catholic dating apps out there.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I tried one for a while.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: It was a really busy point in my life and I was working on the book, so I was on these apps too to kind of do a little well, but I do think there are good apps out there.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I are dating websites and you know that you can sign up and then connect with our fellow Catholics, particularly in in your area, where you you live, and I have had friends that have met their now spouses on those websites.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: But I think it's again I go back to it's really important to ask really important questions up front so that you're not wasting their time and they're not wasting your time.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: So give us a couple of those questions.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: So I'm a person right here, let's say I'm a young lady, right, and I don't person.
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: Right here let's say I'm a young lady, right, and I'm I don't know, judy, I'm definitely dating age, maybe mid-20s or so, and I'm discerning.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: You know what kind of questions are you going to tell them?
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Hey, ask these questions, you know.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I had one priest tell me to see how well they're living with the seven fruits of the Holy Spirit.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So you could construct some questions around that.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: How faithful are they?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: You know how committed to their faith Do they?
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: You know simple questions like do you, you know what parish do you tend?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, you know.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: Do you go regularly to the parish?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: You know what do you like about being Catholic?
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think you have to ask the real hard, hard questions in the first date, but maybe second or the third date.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Ask them their thoughts on I'm sorry, I'm older, I get to the point what are your thoughts on premarital sex?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And then listen to them and then say, well, here's what I feel.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I'm a practicing Catholic, I believe in remaining chaste until marriage.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: And then, if you find that that's not where they are and they still call you.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: If they still call you back, you know you got somebody that has traditional Catholic values, I would imagine right.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's important and I'll be very frank.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I've met guys coming out of church after they had attended a mass and come to find out.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: You know two to three dates in.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: They're not really practicing the faith.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: They're kind of like every other guy out there.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: They go.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: That's great, it's very commendable, but I hadn't, I didn't continue to waste that time because I'm not going to be put under that pressure and it's not something I'm going to do to be put under that pressure and it's not something I'm going to do.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: So therefore, you know we best, we part ways before any further time is invested.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: So you do have to be very discerning.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: And again I say it's so important to pray.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I believe God hears those prayers.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: He will answer them in the time that he deems is right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Or if you're being called to the single life or maybe religious life, you have to listen to those inspirations.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: It also may be very beneficial to have a spiritual director to discuss this with, whether it's a parish priest or a certified spiritual director within your diocese.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: They're not easy.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, agree with you.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: They're not as easy to find as you think nowadays, though, especially, you know, if you try to find a spiritual director, especially if you're trying to find a priest, you know they're so stretched judy, they're so stretched, so thin.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: So if I'm, if I'm single and you know I'm feeling some frustration, you know I remember this, even my in my own life, and and you, you know, before I got married, before I met my wife, you know it can really get you down right, like you can say I'm never going to find anybody.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And it's not really true, right?
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, keep your, like you said, keep your eyes open, keep your heart open.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: But these can be very productive from the standpoint of you have to go deeper into your faith, and what happens is the relationship between me and God got stronger, because you almost have to just fall on your knees and say, hey, god, do you have a plan?
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: And let's talk about it.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: When we start to think about the relationship God wants with us, he wants intimacy with us, he doesn't want to just be on the peripheral, and so, when you're starting to talk about prayer, I think, no matter what, you brought up prayer a number of times I think it's so important for all of us, not just singles or married or whatever, because even if you're married, you know you're going to, in order to stay married, you're going to need the same thing You're going to have to have a relationship with God.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: So I think, really, what I hear you say a few times already is, no matter where you're at in this, you know again, you could be divorced, widowed, single.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: This relationship with God is so important.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: That's where we're going, judy, at the end, isn't it?
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know this is a temporal life, no matter what happens and my heart goes out to people because I know how hard it could be right I have these dreams of how my future is going to unveil and it doesn't open up the way I thought it was going to be.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: We all have to carry crosses.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: These are not easy things, are they?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, if you really feel like you're called to marriage and called to have a family, I would just encourage you to continue to pray, but live in the now.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Tomorrow is guaranteed to no one.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: What is God seeking of you today?
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: And to fulfill his will?
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: For today, he gave you unique gifts that no one else has.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: You only have that set of gifts that you have.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: How can you utilize them to help further his kingdom?
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: How can you utilize them to help further his church?
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I always encourage single people to look to be to consider public service, because we so need strong catholic voices in the public square yes, we do.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: It may be running for office.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It could be you're single, but you want run for the local school board.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: You know, because your voice is important as a single person what you're saying is very important.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: We're on the front lines as women, particularly single women, where we're inundated with all this messaging from Planned Parenthood.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: We're on the front lines every day of this and our culture encourages us to act the opposite of what our faith calls us to.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: So I would say get involved in things you know within your community that you feel God may be calling you to.
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: We need strong voices in the pro-life movement from males and females.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: You know there's so many things we can get involved with.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: And you know, when you said you know school boards, you know local offices, sometimes people don't think that that's a calling as part of our Catholic faith, but it is.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: You know, when you can bring some faithful Christians and Catholics on school boards, you can really change what happens to hundreds and maybe thousands of children.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: And I think that people really have to realize that I speak on this a lot, judy, because you see what's happening in the public school system.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So what you're saying is very important.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be, you know, just in the church.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: You know You're right, it's better to go out to bring this gospel message out.
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: And who knows?
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: You know you're going to meet a lot of people, some good, some bad, when you, when you start to do those types of things and maybe, maybe, maybe, that's where you find your opportunities for relationships, and I'm not talking about just dating but but enriching relationships with, with people that will journey with you right by just staying open and doing good things in the world Right.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think so.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And even going back to what we were talking about a little bit earlier about, you know, maybe, the need to find a spiritual director or speak with your parish priest for support, but also really a strong network of friends who are like-minded.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: That could be males, females, you know, that are really like-minded where you can support each other and also family members too.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I do talk about family members in the book, who are good at discerning if you're dating somebody you know to kind of seek their opinions too about.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think, hey, we've been dating a couple months now.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: You know, what are your thoughts about our relationship?
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Because I think family members know you better than anybody else other than our followers.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: You know what?
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: You just said.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: It's so important for young people when they're, when they're dating.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Because, you know, we, we put these rose-colored lenses on when we see somebody.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: We're and our and I see this especially for women, but it happens to men too, that you have these rose-colored glasses right and I see this person in a light.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And other people family will say what do you see in that guy?
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: That guy is an idiot.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Jack, you know this guy right, and what you're saying is so important.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: I would say, Judy, what do you think about that girl Seriously?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: And you would tell me, Jack, she's not for you.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: And I say you're kidding why?
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: And this happens a lot, it's very important, you know.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, they may say to you but I know somebody right that that you may want to talk to.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: So that's really important.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: You know our, our, our lens, when we start getting attracted to somebody, can be off kilter a little bit, can it?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Right, it's, it's very true, and I've had friends that we've discussed for both me and family members too.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: I have two sisters who have given me very honest feedback about I'm dating, but I've always appreciated it and you know what They've been right.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I had a gentleman who was a friend of mine.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: He was a very well-known physician, very established, with a top tier medical facility.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: He was an old and just kind of getting back out there years later, starting to seek to date and he, you know, kind of ran some situations by me and I gave him my honest opinion and then he didn't continue to date these individuals.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: And then he came to me one day with a woman that he had met, who was actually originally from Australia, and said I really like her.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: We talked for a while as he was dating her and I said you know what this one sounds like, this one sounds like this one could be a real good one for you.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: And sure enough, they got married.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: They're married to this day.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: So it's important, I think, to be able to have that network and that feedback, that trusted network who really knows you, who truly has your best interest at heart and who are, you know, practicing the faith like you are, they're really trying to to find the right person, the right spouse.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I think that, and then again, combined with the prayer to ask God for discernment, you know, to even maybe help give you know confirmations, is this the right thing, lord, you know, and it's really that ultimate, I think that that sense of peace and that sort of inner certainty that you're doing the right thing, that you would have a great sense of peace about it, and then lots of green lights rather than red lights Be aware of the red lights flashing, you know, green light after green light after green light, and you really feel that they are going to help you grow in your faith.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: I had one priest tell me while I was writing the book it is in my book, it's just a such a simple phrase is are they going to bring you closer to God?
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Because that's really ultimately what marriage is too.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It's just, and even in the single state, are we growing closer to God every day?
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Because, you're right, we, we don't know when our lives are going to end, when you so, so why worry about something that you know may or may not happen down the road?
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, really, what is god calling you to do today to serve him and to further his kingdom in a culture that is really hurting and thirsty for god's word they really are thirsty for god's word and in and that we we have a lot of healing we need to do in our culture.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: We sure do.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: And if you do meet the right person you think is the right person, you better be the right person, because relationships are not easy.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Marriages are not easy, you know, and there's tragedies that happen.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: I know a young couple that were so excited they got married blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: And then the health of the woman she got diagnosed with cancer, very serious and all of a sudden boom, you know, I mean it could be over before you know it.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: So, you know, walk with the Lord.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: You know, as we're winding down here, judy, you know you and I were talking I was, you know.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: We got the picture of the divine mercy right behind me.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: Divine mercy is coming up.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: It's the Sunday after Easter.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: It's such a powerful.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Sister Faustina, you know John Paul II canonized her and John Paul II actually was very, you know, very important in getting this message out Without getting into the history too much.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: It got buried.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: So Sister Faustina is asked to paint this for anybody that don't know.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I think people that listen to our show know what Divine Mercy is, but it paints this image and John Paul would call mercy the second word for love.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: This is the.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: You know, if you can see the rays behind me.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: They're the water and the blood right.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: The water is that nuptial bath, baptism, confession, washing me getting ready for the.
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: Really, you know the nuptials.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: And then the red, of course, references the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: You know the Eucharist actually being poured out on us, but at the end of the day, this got buried, and John Paul, you know, coming from Poland, just like Sister Faustina, brought this back up again.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: It's a beautiful story but if you don't mind, judy, tell people a little bit about.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: So what am I going to do to receive this mercy?
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Because Jesus just wants to pour this out on us, doesn't he?
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's pleading with Sister Fa, sister Foster, you get out there.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: I want this to happen.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: I want people to know my mercy right.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: So what do I need to know in order to receive this mercy?
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: On Divine Mercy, sunday.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, so thank you for bringing that up.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: It's a really important reminder as we approach the Easter Triduum is that on Friday, good Friday, you can begin the Divine Mercy Novena.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: It is a nine day Novena that will extend from Good Friday through to Divine Mercy Sunday, and you are bringing different in each day of the Novena and you can find these online everywhere it's.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: You're bringing different groups of people, so like, let's say, souls in purgatory one day, priests and religious another day, those who have separated themselves from church another day.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: So each day, you're bringing these intentions before the Lord and you're imploring his mercy.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: However, there's amazing graces attached to this novena, so I would encourage anyone listening to this podcast to take part in it, but part of the stipulations for this is that you would need to go to church.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you need to have a really thorough confession.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: So you go to priests for a really thorough confession and the sacrament of confession, and then, on Divine Mercy Sunday itself, you receive, in the state of grace, holy Communion, so that can be a mass held on you know, of course, on Divine Mercy Sunday, and some parishes even have specialized Divine Mercy mass, yeah, they do.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: So you can look for those as well too.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: But Sunday Mass, fulfilling your Sunday Mass obligation, works as well.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: So the nine-day novena make a good, thorough confession and then, in a state of grace, receive communion on Divine Mercy Sunday.
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: And what God has applied to this, or our Lord Jesus has applied to this, is that through His mercy, he will forgive all of your sins and the punishment due to them if you fulfill these obligations.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: That is massive.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: I wish the church would proclaim this from the rooftops.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: Pope Francis did have the year of divine mercy, which was wonderful.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: It was a beautiful tribute and acknowledgement of God's mercy upon mankind.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: But you know, consider this, because if you are overburdened I think so many people are burdened with sins or thinking God could never possibly forgive me there is no sin, Jesus said.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Even if your sins be, as scarlet you will have you will.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: You will be forgiven through my mercy.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: He told St Faustina that I would also encourage people that there's some really good movies about St Faustina online that you could download and watch or just stream, and then also to pick up, if you can, a copy of her, the six volumes that she wrote that include the revelations from Christ, including this novena and that is called Divine Mercy in my Soul, and it's the Diary of St Faustina that's also available readily online.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: But I would highly encourage people to seek God's mercy in their life.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: Unburden yourself from the sin this Easter season by taking part in this novena.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: It's so rare, but it will cleanse you like a newborn babe, just like right after baptism, and then you start fresh in life again.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: You seek to do God's will and you seek to do his will every day, and he will take you places and bring about plans in your life that you can never imagine.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much for that.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah, so I'm with you, judy.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: This is a very important day.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Again I'm with the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: It was important for John Paul Get the diary of my father is blind and for a year him and I read from that diary.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I travel a bit with the John Paul II Renewal Center, but whenever I was home, judy, we would read.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: And at first he didn't like it.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: He said I'm tired of listening to that sister or whatever.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: So here's Sister Faustina writing and speaking back and forth to Jesus.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: But by the time we were in about a month or so, it changed.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: He got to know Sister Faustine, he got to kind of know the way she was speaking to Jesus and the way her heart was.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: And then he could not wait.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: And then when we got toward the end of the diary and it's quite thick right, when we got toward the end of the diary.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: He made me slow down.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: He says don't read too much today because he wanted to continue it.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: You know it was so beautiful, so it's really a blessing.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: So the reason I bring that up is if you start to read the diary and it seems a little, you got to kind of get a little rhythm to it, but it'll be a huge blessing in your life.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: And it ends actually with with a little seven pages on holy communion and her experiences with the holy communion.
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: It it's really powerful.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: When I do parish missions, present parish missions, I like to have at least one day of adoration and I read from those last seven pages of the diary.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: It's just really, really beautiful.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: So thank you for bringing that up.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: It gives you an idea of the endless mercy of God.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, judy, you're such a treasure.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for being on the show.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: You know your book was published a little while ago.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Can people still get that book and, if so, how?
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, they can go to Sophia Institute Press website.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: So Sophia Institute Press and order it directly from their website.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: The book is called Single and Catholic Finding Meaning in your State of Life, and then I believe you can also still get it on Amazon as well too.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, good, and I work with Sophia a lot, so I'll make sure I look up that link and I get it in the show notes.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Hey, god bless you.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much and keep up the good work.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Are you going to write another book or are you done with those books?
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: They're not easy.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Have an idea, are they?
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: No, but I have an idea.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: I want to write a fictional work, so I'm I'm thinking of how I'm going to do it in my mind, but I I hope to start on that yeah, well, keep us posted.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, hey, thanks everyone.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us today.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: We'll talk to you again soon thank you so much.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Bye, thank you.