Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / CEO Entrepreneur lands in wrong prison- Aaron Duncan

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CEO Entrepreneur lands in wrong prison- Aaron Duncan · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi. I'm Brent Cassidy.
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  Welcome to the nightmare success.
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  And Now podcast where we explore a, how to overcome your fears
• 0:11
  and Nightmares is set yourself free.
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  We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
• 0:15
  Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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  These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
• 0:24
  humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
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  that will help you knock down some of the prisons.
• 0:29
  You Built up in your own mind. All right.
• 0:37
  Nightmare success in and out. Listeners, we're back.
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  And are you guys up for a interesting interview?
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  All right, I got one Aaron. Duncan is with me today is
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  background. He had a real estate investment
• 0:51
  company. He went in for the fight of his
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  life eventually getting indicted convicted mail fraud money
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  laundering is as the battle went on.
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  And the interesting thing about Aaron is is We talk about what
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  happens when your worst fear becomes your reality, how do you
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  adapt? How do you survive?
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  How do you overcome? And one of the main ingredients
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  of this is, how do you use your experience to help others?
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  Well Aaron, does that Aaron has a company.
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  It's called Elevate media and he's using his inexperience.
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  He's using his experience to help others when they're in a
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  crisis. And and he's an expert
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  Communications guy, he's in the reputation management.
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  Ment works with celebrities entertainers, people who are
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  getting it going through an indictment, all the things that
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  go on in crisis world. So, it's a very interesting
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  story and Aaron, I just been chatting here before we got
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  started. I think this will be a story
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  that has a lot of different angles to I think you'll enjoy
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  it. Aaron Duncan welcome.
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  Thanks. Brent Cassidy.
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  I appreciate the opportunity to be a part of this podcast,
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  obviously. You know, I'm sure you've out of
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  all the people you've interviewed.
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  He said, I am such a huge fan and I genuinely mean I
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  appreciate that your stories incredible.
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  I've read your book, I've watched your podcast on YouTube.
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  I listen to it, I believe on Apple and some of the other
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  platforms that you're on. So congratulations to you you
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  great success and where you're at today.
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  It's interesting because some of the people you have interviewed
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  in the past are actually friends of My on social media.
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  And I had no idea that they had small world, isn't it?
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  Yeah. Small World stuff.
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  Small world, small world. Aaron, are you, are you from st.
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  Louis, born and raised. Okay, born and raised.
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  I've got two brothers. Yeah, and I'm the oldest of
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  three. My mom and dad are doing great.
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  My dad just retired last year and so we all live in st.
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  Louis were very tight-knit cools family.
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  Very cool. So born and In st.
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  Louis, you can answer the high school question that everybody
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  asks in st. Louis, only in St.
• 3:12
  Louis, you could have gone to Harvard, but they want to know
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  where you went to ice. Of course.
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  Well, on my way here, I passed Lafayette.
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  And I asked the, the person that was with me.
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  I said that's where all the rich kids went, isn't it?
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  He said, yeah, back in the day and so I said, well, I wasn't
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  one of those. I we grew up middle class was
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  born kind of grew up earlier. I went to grade school and then
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  halfway through Junior High in Ferguson.
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  Yeah, I went to Ferguson middle. Wow.
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  And that's kind of where I learned a lot about the streets
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  and street life. It's where I learned how to
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  fight. Yeah, a lot of a lot of those
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  kids growing up, picking on the little white guy, it's where I
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  learned a lot of a lot of lessons and my dad got a raise
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  at, he's working in McDonnell, Douglas.
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  I'm and so we transferred over to fluorescent, which was not
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  too far away. But so, to answer your question,
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  I finished out Junior High at Cross Keys, middle school and
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  graduated high school, McClure North?
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  Yeah. Yeah.
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  Northstar Northstar Northstar proud of it.
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  Cool. Did you, did you know having,
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  you know that world that you were in being in and Florissant?
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  Ferguson did you play sports? Did you what was your high
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  school life like it did? So my dad was he's one of those
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  guys that He kept us involved in sports because he said, you
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  know, as long as you're playing sports, you're gonna stay out of
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  trouble. Mmm, plus I think Sports is a
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  great equalizer. It is a great equalizer, you're
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  good to play? Yeah, we're on a team.
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  Yeah, but he's trying to win, everybody's trying to win.
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  It is it's a great equalizer so and high school, you know, I had
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  reached, you know, I've got four more years in my mind is what I
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  had thought. And and so growing up from the
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  Just five all the way up as a freshman in high school,
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  everything was centered around. Baseball, my Summers were
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  baseball clinics, baseball camps, baseball, this baseball
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  that. And so, by the time I made it to
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  my freshman year, I played varsity baseball, I played
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  baseball football, and I wrestled, all four years, three
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  Sports, not very common, by the way to play.
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  It's not words in high school, everybody.
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  Buddy, you know, nowadays they have everybody just focus on one
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  thing which I think is not the best thing.
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  I think it's great especially as an athlete to be able to
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  transition from one sport to their.
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  I think it helps the other sport but it does.
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  I and I completely agree with that.
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  I, you know, I'm sure we can all look back at those days and say,
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  man, that was when I was in the best shape of my life.
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  Oh yeah there. Sure, three sports for four
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  years. Two days playing football was no
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  joke, but the hardest practice of I was wrestling but you know,
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  then I was a senior in high school and then came along the
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  decisions of where to go to college.
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  Dad was big on education, huge on education and he told us
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  that, you know, he in fact he had earned his degrees while he
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  had started his career earlier on, but came on a McDonnell
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  Douglas and then just worked his way up the ladder.
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  I'm the corporate ladder, like most people do live in that
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  American dream and and so, it took him 10 years, but he got
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  his master's degree, while he was coaching her little league
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  teams and and working full-time and and going to night school.
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  And now I look at it and I'm thinking and I don't know that I
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  would even have the time. Yeah I had to do all that right,
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  you do all that. So medication goes to my dad, if
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  he listens will make him listen. Into this.
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  Yeah, definitely. So I had a couple of baseball.
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  Scholarship offers, what did you play baseball?
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  My position was shorts. Oh, the shortstop position?
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  Yeah. Shortstop.
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  And right. Have a good glove for that.
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  Had to have a good glove. Good range.
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  My bat was decent around. My junior years.
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  Coaches. Wanted to see me Pitch to
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  strengthen my arm and So I had several Scouts looking at me,
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  over my Junior and Senior year and so I didn't know where I
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  wanted to go. All I knew is that my senior
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  year. I had to find a way to tell my
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  dad. I'm done with baseball.
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  Hmm. Which meant I'm done with
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  school. Hmm.
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  And so that was that was a very difficult thing was probably one
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  of the hardest things that I Diana's, a kid is tell my dad
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  that I've decided not to pursue baseball and not go to college
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  and I think he disowned me that was it.
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  Yeah, I think you just hold me pretty much for he had three
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  sons and then there were two. So but I got.
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  Did you have something in your head, though?
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  Aaron at that time. Like, you know, if I'm not all
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  the reason I ask that is because when, when you're in that time,
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  I'm period of your life. You know the natural progression
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  is, is okay. I finished high school.
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  I'm going to go to college. So was there something else that
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  was rolling around in your mind? There was.
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  And that's a great question. This is something you and I have
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  not talked about. So I was dating a girl all
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  through high school. She went to patent Ville is
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  here, we are in St. Louis, talking about high
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  schools, sheeple and Cayman Islands.
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  Have no idea. Yeah.
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  They have no idea. And my friends out in the UK,
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  they have no idea. But anyway, so she she was a
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  patent evil pirate. And so, we got married young and
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  right out of high school, I started working for Southwest
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  Airlines, one of my cousin's was a manager here in St.
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  Louis, and so, you know, life is all about who, you know.
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  So I gave him a call and said, hey, I would love to come work
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  for Southwest Airlines 19 years old.
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  I got my first job as a I was just out on the ramp loading
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  luggage on aircraft well, hot in the summer cold, because it's
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  not an easy job. Brutal brutal.
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  I just turned 46 in October of this year and there are guys
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  that started with me back during that time that just retired last
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  year, from Southwest Airlines. So I look back at that and think
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  man, how different life would have been, yeah, if I would have
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  just stayed on at South, right. But but I didn't so work there
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  for a couple of years and had established you know, building a
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  401k and doing the things that, you know, you do working for a
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  corporation, Southwest was a great company but it just wasn't
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  for me. I really enjoyed helping people
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  and so my wife and I we decided to get into the ministry.
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  And so we were youth ministers for seven years.
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  Well and so we helped young people how to avoid getting in
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  trouble. How to avoid the pitfalls of
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  Life. Yeah.
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  And I didn't even know how to avoid the pitfalls of life.
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  I've never even been in them. Yeah but I just knew what I had
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  been told and so I was just relaying held with these kids
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  has been that you were working with anywhere from the age of
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  30. 13 to probably 19. Okay, yeah, yeah.
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  And so had to be pretty rewarding though, to be in that
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  environment, which doesn't lie, and they're so impressionable.
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  Extremely yeah. Just just to see a lot of them
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  go through those, you know, that decade or those years of their
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  lives and not as we know today, and it's unfortunate, but we see
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  so many kids in that in that bracket and Age bracket that are
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  addicted to drugs, and alcohol and various things.
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  And so it was rewarding for me to see those kids not get on any
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  of that stuff. And so I had started, I left
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  Southwest Airlines and the ministry was was very rewarding
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  but it was a weekend gig, right? You know, so I enjoyed helping
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  helping young people and so I saw a job description in the st.
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  Louis Post-Dispatch in the 90s for and it was when the internet
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  was brand-new. You guys remember AOL?
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  You remember that tone? Oh yeah, I know everybody has
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  their own, everybody. Is that tone in the back of your
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  mind as I'm telling this, but that dial-up tone that AOL had.
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  So, the internet was brand-new, I started working at TWA and
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  they hired me on and said, we want Be the first airline to
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  sell tickets through our website and I kind of lied my way
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  through the interview and I said, you have got experience.
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  I had airline experience because it is where the Southwest right
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  little. Do they know I was loading,
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  luggage, wasn't a technology. No, not at all.
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  In fact. No, very low-tech.
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  So they stuck me in a closet and gave me a little bit of a
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  budget. I was able to hire a team and to
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  this this day, I still remember every member of that team.
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  And so, we were there for four years.
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  The last four years of TWA trans World Airlines.
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  Well, as people might or might not know, TWA was one of the
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  hubs. And, you know, there's a lot of
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  people that came to St. Louis, that were from all over
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  the place. That exact.
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  Here, I lived here in St. Louis is right there.
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  And so I worked at their headquarters in downtown St.
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  Louis, yeah, one city centre and That's when those were the days
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  when st. Louis was thriving.
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  Yeah. And so we built a team and we
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  did we did amazing things. We were the first airline to be
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  able to accomplish that and then the executive team came to us
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  and said, we love what you're doing, but we want you to double
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  the revenue. We want you to come up with
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  something different and so we sat down and took a week and,
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  you know, get away and said, we can I do this?
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  We're 22, 23 year old kids, we 300 million dollars.
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  We'd never even thought. We'd even entertain that, right?
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  So, so how do you make three hundred million dollars as a 20,
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  something year old kid, and you've never done it.
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  So we thought, let's let's, let's partner with some of the
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  top hotel chains. Let's partner with some of the
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  the top rental car companies. Let's partner with some of the
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  top travel-related Smarties. And so we created this He's
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  travel packages and some will remember that are listening.
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  This, some will remember, it was called.com deals.
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  Kind of cheesy nowadays back in. You know, now, here we are in
• 14:56
  2022 going in at 22, 23, but that's what we call those.com
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  deals. So, every week, we would put out
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  new.com deals where you could fly.
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  For example, from st. Louis to Los Angeles and once
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  you arrive your rental cars, Ready.
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  Hotel is in your name, everything's taken care of.
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  It's all. It's all part of the package
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  deal. Yeah, and so we nailed it for
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  four years, we hit our goal, we crushed it and there's a
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  business gentlemen out there that that some listening to this
• 15:33
  podcast will know who it is but his name's Carl Icahn.
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  He took over TWA and let's just say I was not a fan.
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  I was our entire team was let go.
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  And we were told that he was bankrupting TWA.
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  And that American Airlines would soon be taken over.
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  And so, well, as some of those people who have they read
• 16:01
  through garlic and he was famous for buying something and taking
• 16:07
  apart and selling it pieces, kind of, you know, kind of the
• 16:09
  Gordon Gekko days of Wall Street, or in gecko Wall Street.
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  That's All right. He was a very much hated
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  individual and he didn't care. And if there's anything that I
• 16:25
  could say that, I like about Carl Icahn, it is the I don't
• 16:29
  care component because now I'm to the point in my life where I,
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  I do care what people think of me.
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  Yeah. But I don't care about what the
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  - right the people that have something negative to say.
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  So I learned some lessons Or a lesson from Carl Icahn, but he
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  led our entire team go. No severance package.
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  I go home. Tell my my wife and I we had a
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  two month old baby daughter. Gosh, I hate to tell you this,
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  but we have no health insurance. We have no income that last
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  check that we got two weeks ago. There was a not getting one
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  today or tomorrow that was it. And so it was, you know, here, a
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  young married couple Well, we had bought our first house at
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  21, 22 years old. And so we didn't have much of a
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  nest egg. And so I went for a drive that
• 17:25
  day and I came back a couple hours later and told her I'm
• 17:29
  going to be an entrepreneur. Mmm, she's like what the hell is
• 17:32
  an entrepreneur and back in the 90s?
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  Nobody you know that wasn't a name that you just tossed around
• 17:38
  right all the time. It's obviously become a lot more
• 17:42
  popular but I said I'm going to be a business owner.
• 17:44
  I'm going to start my own marketing agency.
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  And she said, well what do you know about marketing?
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  And so she didn't know about the things that I had write all the
• 17:55
  different things you've been working on your debut a and so I
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  thought well I'll reach out to those those hotel chains and
• 18:02
  those rental car companies and because I was able to get them
• 18:05
  contracts with TWA, maybe they can.
• 18:09
  All right, it's good training favorite field resolutely and so
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  some of them did some of them became my clients early on But
• 18:18
  you know to be honest it was it was a struggle we struggled,
• 18:23
  meaning me my wife and my newborn daughter, we struggled
• 18:29
  for for three or four years and I wanted something better for my
• 18:34
  family. And so I had long story short, I
• 18:41
  had invested a little bit of money in some of my team members
• 18:45
  that worked at TWA during Time I'd invest a little bit of money
• 18:50
  and some some no-name companies and back in early 2000s, I got a
• 18:58
  phone call from one of them that said, hey, I just took our
• 19:01
  company public and you guys could do the research or
• 19:05
  whatever but Travelocity or Expedia and those companies that
• 19:12
  now do the same thing that we did it team, exactly?
• 19:15
  Yeah. Those companies are Thriving and
• 19:17
  doing very well today. And, and, and now there's new
• 19:20
  ones popping up all over the place.
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  So I got a little bit of seed money from from those
• 19:27
  Investments and put it into my marketing company.
• 19:30
  And just a few years later, I sold it.
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  And, and then 2008 came. Hmm.
• 19:38
  And I, I partnered with a childhood friend of mine, he was
• 19:42
  a real estate Guru. I was a marketing guy, right?
• 19:45
  It's good combination. Yes.
• 19:47
  We thought we would create a parent company he would handle
• 19:51
  the real estate, I would handle the marketing.
• 19:53
  Hmm. And over time, I found out that
• 19:59
  there were some bezel and going on and I found out that he was
• 20:04
  the one embezzling money. And so how'd you find that out?
• 20:09
  Like what did you what did you just run across something?
• 20:12
  And it's like, oh yeah, in fact, one of the red flags Eggs was he
• 20:18
  wanted to move a female from where he had just come from,
• 20:25
  which was, and I'll say this. And people will know who it is,
• 20:29
  but I still won't mention his name.
• 20:31
  But he had come from Columbus, Ohio, and he hired a female,
• 20:39
  and, and he was married and had two, I think maybe three
• 20:42
  daughters at the time and it was just a red flag to me because I
• 20:46
  had Prove that yet. And I to be honest with you
• 20:50
  didn't really like her. She she was all about him and
• 20:54
  not a didn't add a lot to the the equation.
• 20:58
  Not at all, not at all. And so that was a red flag and
• 21:03
  so I started asking for financial statements up until
• 21:06
  this point. I don't think I had even ever
• 21:09
  read a financial statement. Yeah, didn't even know
• 21:11
  marketing. People don't like Financial
• 21:13
  Services. Not at all.
• 21:16
  We tried. Let me create this, you add it
• 21:18
  up, we try to avoid those at all costs.
• 21:24
  So reading the financial statement I took it to my
• 21:29
  accountant at the time and I said, can you can you explain
• 21:32
  this in English? And I interpret it for me and so
• 21:36
  he said you're missing some money and so he said you need to
• 21:41
  figure out where and so just threw a couple of months of
• 21:45
  research With his help we found we found out.
• 21:52
  And so what I decided to do was instead of prosecute my
• 21:56
  childhood friend. Yeah.
• 21:59
  Who was already going through some marital issues and instead
• 22:04
  of suing him or any of that, I just thought I would take my
• 22:08
  company back and and just focus on what I do best.
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  Right. And so we did that, it was Was,
• 22:17
  it was difficult, there's for about three months.
• 22:23
  Surprise there weren't fish thrown back and forth, but it
• 22:26
  was, it was, it was tough because you've got two childhood
• 22:29
  friends, who the last person you think would take money from you
• 22:34
  as a childhood friend. So like when you went to him,
• 22:39
  did you say, hey, I know that there's something going on here
• 22:45
  ever. Did you have that face-to-face?
• 22:47
  Like I did, I did. In fact, when I went there, I
• 22:51
  was so angry. I was not going to knock on any
• 22:54
  door that was closed this particular day.
• 22:58
  I wish I had knocked on the door that was closed.
• 23:01
  Because when I opened it it was him and his secretary.
• 23:05
  Oh, okay. And so that answer that
• 23:10
  question, right? And so After that was excused,
• 23:17
  we sat down and and I ask some tough questions and we both had
• 23:25
  some things that we had to figure out, but I wasn't going
• 23:28
  to let any more time go by and let my company suffer and and
• 23:35
  had his pocket, mmm, if you will.
• 23:38
  And so, we completely separated that day and wasn't the last
• 23:44
  that we had heard from each other, but we had separated.
• 23:47
  And so, I focused 100% of my marketing company and developed
• 23:53
  a team again, me loving to, you know, I love to help people.
• 23:57
  I had an internship program where I had a team from Bangkok
• 24:02
  Thailand that was finishing their degrees at Washington
• 24:06
  University, cool. And they did some internships,
• 24:11
  we were able to patent and trademark some things.
• 24:14
  That they came up with. And so in return, I invested in
• 24:19
  one of their restaurant Ventures, which if you guys are
• 24:23
  ever in University City, if you like sushi, stop by Blue Ocean.
• 24:27
  Super yeah, very well. This is, you know, he's had that
• 24:31
  that he's in Bangkok Thailand. Now, that's where he lives full
• 24:35
  time, but that was the location. They did that.
• 24:38
  He had started and he just needed a chance.
• 24:40
  He needed someone to believe in them opportunity, and that's
• 24:44
  what he said. Guarded.
• 24:44
  So 2008 was the year that I went through a divorce and I sold.
• 24:55
  I sold my marketing company. Could you have the time to to
• 24:59
  had to at the time and have to now?
• 25:02
  Okay. Now my oldest daughter is 24 and
• 25:06
  my youngest is 19, okay? And so That was tough.
• 25:14
  Yeah that was tough going through.
• 25:15
  Divorce was extremely tough. I found out that my national
• 25:20
  sales director at the time who also was a friend of mine was
• 25:27
  also embezzling money from my marketing company.
• 25:30
  Well I got hit twice. Yeah, I got hit twice and with
• 25:32
  in just less than a year of each other.
• 25:36
  And so here I am money being taken from me and Feeling that
• 25:42
  that felt yes just the the feeling of betrayal.
• 25:46
  Yeah you got trust and everything else is rolled into
• 25:49
  that? It's terrible.
• 25:50
  So again without Prosecuting without, you know, bashing his
• 26:00
  name, or any of that, because there were some Family Ties
• 26:04
  their his family was associated with my then wife's family and
• 26:10
  so I didn't Want there to be, you know, anything there.
• 26:15
  I just wanted him to be able to tell the story and then I found
• 26:19
  out that that I was the bad guy later on.
• 26:23
  So Missouri's, a 50/50 State. I was able to retain half of my
• 26:31
  net worth, then my ex-wife got the rest, she got the house, the
• 26:36
  cars and then the state of Missouri you know, they Hit you
• 26:41
  over the head with child support and I was paying a lot at that
• 26:46
  time and so I remembered my very first friend who invent, who
• 26:52
  embezzled from me. I remember the real estate
• 26:55
  strategy that he had developed and I liked it so much, I
• 27:00
  adopted it and so I started my own real estate company and I
• 27:06
  called it, I named it after myself the Duncan group And so
• 27:13
  that's important to know and I'll tell you here in a few
• 27:16
  minutes, why that's important. So I obviously wanted my family
• 27:20
  to feel, you know, I feel good about about that and I just knew
• 27:28
  that we were going to be successful.
• 27:29
  I just had that feeling real estate at the time and from 2005
• 27:34
  2006 and 7 which was doing really well.
• 27:39
  And so I had taken, I would say probably 98% of my money.
• 27:45
  I had left and put it in that company.
• 27:48
  Yeah and I hired an assistant I hired an executive team II built
• 27:55
  the company up and we had two law firms that we were we were
• 28:00
  Outsourcing a lot of legal work to and I saw how much we were
• 28:05
  spending on an annual basis laufey's are Not.
• 28:09
  Oh yeah, especially when you have two different firms that
• 28:13
  you're dealing with. So I thought, you know, there's
• 28:17
  there's a friend of mine that that I'm partying with, on the
• 28:22
  weekend. We're going to clubs here in St.
• 28:25
  Louis. And we're partying together and
• 28:28
  he's a licensed attorney worked for a buddy of yours that, you
• 28:33
  know, well, and so I talked him into coming on board and being
• 28:39
  My in-house counsel and so he did and so we did not have, you
• 28:47
  know, like Bernie Madoff where you have this huge looking
• 28:52
  company in only have three people, right?
• 28:55
  Right working it that wasn't us at all.
• 28:58
  We had, we had built a very large company and so we had
• 29:02
  subdivisions we had I was not a real estate broker but what we
• 29:07
  were doing is we were flipping properties.
• 29:09
  He's buying properties for cheap, putting some money in
• 29:12
  them, so on, and then sell them made sense.
• 29:15
  We were doing that all day. Long st.
• 29:17
  Louis. Dallas, Phoenix.
• 29:20
  All over, we had partnered with some, some other companies that
• 29:24
  had foreclosures, they needed to dump those.
• 29:29
  And and so we wrote up contracts where we could take those
• 29:32
  properties rehab them, sell them, and then they would get a
• 29:35
  piece of it and the model just made sense.
• 29:39
  It just it was working out perfect and so sounds like a
• 29:43
  group pretty quickly. It did it grew very quickly and
• 29:47
  so some somebody came to me and said, why don't, you know you
• 29:53
  love helping people in her. Why don't you, why don't you
• 29:58
  bring in some outside? Investors?
• 30:00
  Mmm. And because we're making, you
• 30:02
  know, you're making so much money.
• 30:04
  Let's let's help some other people.
• 30:06
  Mmm, I thought was a great idea. So I did It.
• 30:09
  And so, working with our outside legal counsel and that means I'm
• 30:15
  thinking. While you're talking to you at
• 30:16
  that time, you had a track record.
• 30:18
  You know, you're you're at the point where you've grown e of
• 30:22
  track record wouldn't be that difficult for somebody.
• 30:24
  You don't have to twist their arm too bad, not at all to to
• 30:27
  bring in an Investor's. Say I'll do that not at all.
• 30:30
  In fact, the the, my mentality was so that everybody gets a
• 30:37
  piece of it. If you Bring an investor to us.
• 30:42
  We'll give you a commission. Sure is what it is.
• 30:47
  So our outside law firms. We told them, we were hiring an
• 30:51
  inside counsel. And so, they taught me that the
• 30:56
  difference between an accredited investor versus a non-accredited
• 31:00
  and they told us make sure that you know, the difference.
• 31:04
  Make sure that whoever you bring on board is an accredited
• 31:07
  investor, not anonymous. And credited.
• 31:10
  Here's how you vet them, and here's how you go through that.
• 31:12
  And so, there was a lot to learn.
• 31:15
  There's a marketing guy, but here I am learning real estate.
• 31:19
  And so my, my in-house counsel said he picked up on it.
• 31:25
  He knew he knew about it so much, so that his mom invested
• 31:30
  in in our company and the deal was, when you invest with the
• 31:37
  Duncan group, your name, It's tied to the deed, okay?
• 31:41
  Of those properties. All right, kind of
• 31:43
  collateralizing their investment correct.
• 31:46
  There were some sloppy paperwork happened in some investors, did
• 31:50
  not have that collateral. Yeah, they just had money
• 31:55
  invested in the company. And so, so our in-house attorney
• 32:04
  got got paid a commission to bring his mom.
• 32:07
  I'm bored. And so 2008 happened and the
• 32:13
  market. I mean, overnight just crashed I
• 32:15
  literally say overnight because it's looking back at it, it
• 32:18
  seemed like, I had a nightmare. Yeah, one day, it was a
• 32:22
  nightmare and the next day I wake up and it's, I'm going to
• 32:26
  work and everybody's like, what do we do?
• 32:27
  Hmm, the properties that we had bought.
• 32:31
  Let's for an example. Easy number sake, we bought for
• 32:34
  100 grand are now worth 50, right over, Overnight and we had
• 32:40
  promised those investors you're going to you're going to make
• 32:42
  something off of your investment and so we had promissory notes
• 32:47
  and so the thing that I knew best to do was to be honest and
• 32:54
  to to tell these investors that we're going to be going through
• 33:00
  some hard times. And so we had I believe at the
• 33:05
  time, if I can remember correctly was weekly conference
• 33:08
  calls When every investor and I believe there's a total of 70
• 33:12
  plus, okay, investors from all over the country who could call
• 33:16
  in and listen to us and even I believe that answer questions at
• 33:21
  that time and so there were what we called short-term investors.
• 33:27
  Long-term investors long-term investors were 10 20 30 years.
• 33:32
  They wanted to see the company successful.
• 33:35
  The short-term investors were like our attorneys mom.
• 33:39
  Who had a promissory note that in 120 days, those properties
• 33:45
  would be fixed up flipped and she would she get her money
• 33:48
  back? Yeah, profit whatever wasn't the
• 33:50
  case. And so as we are communicating
• 33:56
  this to these investors the you know we had a brokerage
• 34:04
  Division. I was not a real estate broker
• 34:08
  but we were spending So much money in selling these
• 34:11
  properties by paying that seven percent commission.
• 34:14
  To Realtors, we brought that in house and we had our own team.
• 34:20
  And so I had a broker that ran that team.
• 34:23
  And so most everybody at the table our executives are
• 34:30
  employees. Some of their family.
• 34:32
  My parents, my brother, my grandparents all invested.
• 34:36
  Yeah. They're in in the company.
• 34:37
  Yeah. And so we didn't know what to
• 34:41
  do. I just thought that we could
• 34:43
  crawl out of the hole, eventually, it's a bubble.
• 34:47
  It burst. Some people saw it coming.
• 34:50
  Some didn't, I was surprised by that quickly.
• 34:54
  And so what I wanted to do bankruptcy was was brought up
• 35:00
  and I really didn't want to file bankruptcy, but as soon as
• 35:03
  bankruptcy was brought up some red flags started, Coming up.
• 35:09
  And so my, my goal was to ask the long-term investors.
• 35:13
  Can we use your Capital to pay some of these short-term
• 35:18
  investors off to fend off any lawsuits that can be coming and
• 35:23
  then we restructure the company and and get back into this.
• 35:28
  That was the the entire goal. Sounds simple.
• 35:31
  Mmm. And you get the people that are
• 35:34
  short-term out, correct, your long term.
• 35:36
  We're going to restructure, we're going to weather the
• 35:38
  Storm. Get the sales right.
• 35:39
  Go. Yes.
• 35:40
  Okay correct. That was the that was the
• 35:42
  strategy. Bankruptcy was not even a part
• 35:45
  of my equation. I didn't did not want that for
• 35:50
  the Duncan group. And so my in-house attorney went
• 35:56
  to the feds and so we have a Ponzi scheme, we have a guy who
• 36:01
  is taking long term investors money and paying short-term
• 36:05
  investors and paying them off. and he started this company as,
• 36:12
  as such And those were his words.
• 36:17
  And so I came back from a trip, my secretary told me that he was
• 36:23
  in your office, he was copying every document, he could copy.
• 36:28
  And then, when I looked at his, his mom, and I'll be glad when
• 36:33
  they hear this podcast, but when his, when his mom, when I looked
• 36:37
  at his mom's folder, the original documents were not
• 36:41
  there and It's so, so 2008. I was indicted by the federal
• 36:48
  government. Well, tell me a little bit about
• 36:50
  that because, I mean, that's that nightmare as that happens.
• 36:55
  I mean you got a little bit of a foreshadow and because I think
• 36:59
  one of the things that's interesting about Hearing a
• 37:02
  white-collar story is that when you're an entrepreneur and
• 37:06
  you're a business owner, the thing that you said that, you
• 37:10
  know, it caught my attention because a business owner, if
• 37:14
  you're creating a company and you become part of that company
• 37:18
  bankruptcies feels funny, like that's that's like you giving up
• 37:24
  quitting. So I understand that and the
• 37:27
  other thing is that I think that when you're running a company,
• 37:31
  you think you can fix it. Right.
• 37:33
  Okay, what do we need to do? What's?
• 37:34
  Okay, what's the problem? Then, what's our solution?
• 37:37
  And how do we Implement that? So I think for a lot of people
• 37:40
  listening you think, okay, how do you keep the company alive,
• 37:43
  right? And you because I mean at that
• 37:47
  time everybody probably certain age remembers their Lehman
• 37:52
  Brothers, went to everybody was going under, I mean, the whole
• 37:54
  world was going under you know. So it wasn't it wasn't just a
• 37:57
  small, they were gigantic billion dollar companies that
• 38:01
  overnight of the Operated and, you know, a lot of people look
• 38:06
  back on that and it was a time when everything flipped and
• 38:11
  people had to figure out how to survive.
• 38:13
  What do you do next? That's exactly right.
• 38:16
  Yeah. Well I just you brought back
• 38:18
  some memories when you talked about Lehman Brothers, and this
• 38:22
  was right around the time that Bernie Madoff had.
• 38:26
  That's when Ponzi scheme. The the term Ponzi scheme is
• 38:29
  really big, right? And You know, to be able to say
• 38:33
  that I created a Ponzi scheme when I named the company after
• 38:38
  my own last name. Yeah, and we had several
• 38:41
  divisions, I had family working for me.
• 38:43
  I had an in-house counsel to say that that was a Ponzi scheme is
• 38:48
  is so wrong in every way. Well, there's I think there's
• 38:55
  The Ponzi scheme thing, it gets spread out and defined so many
• 38:58
  ways that people can justify it. Like, you know, one Ponzi scheme
• 39:04
  that's very well known as a social security system.
• 39:06
  Very much sir, you know, new money goes into pay for old, and
• 39:10
  this system is not sustainable by itself without the new money
• 39:14
  coming in to pay for the. So it's a, you know, it's okay
• 39:19
  for the federal government to run that Ponzi scheme because
• 39:21
  they're saying, well, this is so security system, we have to do
• 39:23
  it that way. But, you know, that's the
• 39:25
  interesting thing about that particular, you know, and I
• 39:29
  think it's named after a person, isn't it in the 30s or
• 39:32
  something? Oh, you're Ponzi, Okay,
• 39:44
  thousands of people have gone to prison.
• 39:54
  From the time period that your attorney starts copying stuff
• 39:59
  and, you know, that this is bad, how much time is between that,
• 40:03
  and you being indicted. So, I first received
• 40:06
  documentation from the state of Missouri, okay?
• 40:09
  In the very first document, they sent me was a cease and desist,
• 40:13
  okay? Which meant I don't would not do
• 40:16
  nothing, right? There's a property out there.
• 40:19
  I could see Yeah, to keep paying payroll.
• 40:23
  Yeah, there was nothing I could do and so I I was my hands.
• 40:31
  You know he was going on what was going through your mind.
• 40:33
  I mean when you get that cease and assist, you know, that that
• 40:35
  that is that's a death Neal. Oh yeah.
• 40:38
  When I got that, I thought, well, maybe this will just be
• 40:40
  temporary. I'll talk to who some attorneys
• 40:44
  and figure out how to get around this.
• 40:48
  Let them know that we've got some Properties that are out
• 40:51
  there on the market. At least let us get through this
• 40:55
  and pay down some of this and figure some things out the state
• 41:00
  of Missouri would not have it. They were, they were, you know,
• 41:04
  they were done and the SEC. Once I heard the Securities
• 41:09
  Exchange Commission, brought up, I was like, and then I received
• 41:16
  a notice with the Seal of the federal government on it.
• 41:26
  It said we need these amount of documents we need this this and
• 41:31
  this copied and also burn to a disc.
• 41:37
  We need it. We need it by.
• 41:39
  I mean like three or four days and there's no way you don't
• 41:43
  have these people working for you.
• 41:44
  And, you know, buddy, I was by myself, right?
• 41:46
  Yeah. Nobody was going to donate time.
• 41:48
  They were out there looking for Jobs and so, like you said
• 41:54
  earlier, I was in the fight of my life and so it was tough.
• 41:59
  I was, I was thinking about me and how did this happen, is
• 42:03
  there a way to fix it? And so I stopped thinking about
• 42:07
  how to fix it and how do I start defending myself?
• 42:13
  Because I knew that this is where it's going.
• 42:16
  And so I reached out to several friends of mine, who knew I'm
• 42:21
  thinking right now that you're you at that time, you didn't
• 42:23
  have a wife that you were talking to because you were not.
• 42:26
  That's correct. You were divorced, which that
• 42:29
  would be tougher. Also, it was it was I had I had
• 42:35
  fallen into a dark depression and like so many do when they're
• 42:42
  in this situation and it was tough.
• 42:46
  A lot of people describe that is I heard somebody describe the
• 42:49
  other day that I was talking to. This is when you get into the
• 42:52
  one of these things, it's like you're getting into a dark hole
• 42:56
  that first you feel like you can grab the sides.
• 42:58
  And each time you grab that to grab the size that it gets wider
• 43:02
  and then you try to stretch further and he still and then we
• 43:05
  realize that your there's no grabbing the size anymore you're
• 43:07
  just in a spent and it's dark. I love that analogy because you
• 43:10
  don't have any that each time you lose until the more control.
• 43:13
  Sure, that's how it felt. So you're at the bottom Item.
• 43:16
  You're at the bottom of this battery bottom.
• 43:18
  Yeah. And that's how I felt everyone.
• 43:21
  Once they see that you're indicted by the federal
• 43:24
  government. They turn your back on.
• 43:29
  Yeah. And it's like the only, you're
• 43:32
  like the only person that has covid and you're going to give
• 43:34
  it to everybody. That's right.
• 43:35
  Exactly, right. That's an analogy we can now
• 43:39
  use. That's correct.
• 43:40
  So, I was dating a girl at the time and her parents had also
• 43:48
  invested into our company. And so, I was, I was basically
• 43:54
  interviewing attorneys because I wanted to In the best.
• 43:57
  And then I realized that, you know, when you're in this
• 44:01
  situation, they're not cheap, they're not cheap.
• 44:05
  And if you don't have the capital or the means which to,
• 44:10
  to hire the best of the best you're going to have to find
• 44:15
  someone in your range. And so I reach out to several
• 44:21
  friends. They were willing to cut me a
• 44:23
  deal, but then they found out. There was a conflict of interest
• 44:26
  reached out to Out to which happens a lot by the way that
• 44:29
  conflict of interest can get in the way of a lot of good
• 44:31
  situations that you think this will work and then it comes back
• 44:34
  around, can't do that. It does and I really firmly
• 44:37
  believe that if one of these attorneys the one that I'm
• 44:40
  thinking of would have taken on the case that would not have
• 44:43
  been that conflict of interest. I probably would not be sitting
• 44:47
  here today telling you the story.
• 44:49
  Yeah, but it did it. And so They started reaching out
• 44:56
  to other friends and then their friends are reaching out to
• 44:59
  other friends who are all lawyers.
• 45:00
  And then I get a phone call one day from a lawyer in St.
• 45:03
  Louis who by trade was a forensic accountant.
• 45:11
  I thought was perfect. Yeah, because I need somebody
• 45:15
  like, right peel all the numbers by absolutely and so he was a
• 45:19
  criminal defense attorney forensic accountant.
• 45:23
  Perfect. So, I go meet with them, and he
• 45:30
  tells me that he can represent me and then he found out who
• 45:36
  again. This is after I had been
• 45:37
  indicted there were, I think 17 counts against me wire fraud,
• 45:44
  mail fraud, you know, they just stack them.
• 45:46
  Well, that's one thing. I, you know, we talked about
• 45:49
  this from time to time you when you get one charge that, that
• 45:53
  means that they can. Tack those charges.
• 45:55
  So if you if you get charged with mail fraud you get charged
• 45:59
  with mail fraud and then they can just assume how many times
• 46:01
  you put that in the mail and each one of those carry 10 to 20
• 46:05
  years. So there there's a stacking and
• 46:08
  a intimidation factor to do. I just got mail for oh no.
• 46:13
  That's like 600 years. Exactly.
• 46:16
  Yeah. When you when you add it up with
• 46:18
  that calculator you're exactly right there.
• 46:20
  Was thousand plus years when you really look Look at it and thank
• 46:25
  God for the sentencing guidelines and, you know, good
• 46:32
  and bad in certain ways, I guess.
• 46:35
  It depends on who you are but and I can get into that here in
• 46:39
  just a second. But so so I found my attorney
• 46:45
  and we had agreed. We knew that the the process is,
• 46:49
  you know, once you're indicted and you know, you have to go
• 46:53
  before a judge. Judge, you're going to have to
• 46:55
  plead guilty or not guilty. We had agreed that I could turn
• 47:01
  myself in and that was much better than them.
• 47:06
  Breaking down your door and he's getting huge surrounded by a
• 47:10
  SWAT team and all those used. Yeah.
• 47:11
  And so because I had lost everything, I was the only one
• 47:16
  working on this with no income. I moved in with my parents and
• 47:23
  there was a knock on the door one day.
• 47:25
  And it was super early one morning.
• 47:27
  I think it was a Thursday or Friday morning about 6:30 in the
• 47:31
  morning. My dad answers the door and my
• 47:35
  mom comes downstairs. And she said, Aaron, there's
• 47:37
  somebody here to see you. So I come upstairs and my dad
• 47:41
  has this white? I mean, is, why does this table
• 47:46
  white look on his face like, oh my God.
• 47:51
  And so, I see on the front porch that Is a female FBI agent,
• 47:59
  bulletproof vest weapons drawn. And I go to the door.
• 48:04
  She said, are you wearing dunk? And I said, yes, I am.
• 48:07
  She said, can you step outside? Do you know why we're here?
• 48:11
  And I said, no, I don't know why you're here and she said, well,
• 48:15
  we're taking you in, and that was a shock because I thought we
• 48:20
  were, you thought you're doing the other thing, right?
• 48:22
  So I step outside they had surrounded, my, my parents home.
• 48:27
  I think there were, I've got it written down, but I think there
• 48:30
  were nine ten or eleven. FBI agents.
• 48:34
  I mean, fully decked out, and you know, weapons drawn because
• 48:39
  I guess, you know, they don't know what they're going to log
• 48:43
  into. So I understand that but is very
• 48:45
  intimidating. Oh, my gosh, see that?
• 48:47
  And and so for my parents to see that it just devastated.
• 48:52
  Sure. And so they handcuffed me.
• 48:54
  Put me in the back of a car. Take me down to the federal.
• 48:59
  The Federal Building get put into a holding cell For three
• 49:03
  hours and then they call me upstairs.
• 49:06
  I go before a Magistrate Judge. And he asked if, if I have
• 49:12
  representation, I said, yes, I do your honor and he said, well,
• 49:16
  I don't have that on my record. Who is it?
• 49:20
  And, or is he here? And I pointed at him and I said,
• 49:24
  yeah, that's, that's him. And so the the judge asked him,
• 49:29
  he said, well, is are you his attorney?
• 49:32
  Ernie and he said, well, he hasn't fully paid his retainer
• 49:36
  yet. Oh man.
• 49:39
  And I was just stunned. I've got leg shackles arm
• 49:43
  shackles, you know, kind of in the, in the Chain Gang because
• 49:47
  he's writing you up like, six or seven at a time.
• 49:50
  And so the judge basically called me a liar.
• 49:55
  He said, you just told me you had an attorney, you don't have
• 49:58
  an attorney. And it shows that you've de
• 50:02
  frauded 70-something people out of millions of dollars.
• 50:08
  He said, do you understand how serious that is?
• 50:11
  I said yes your honor he said and he asked another question
• 50:15
  and I felt like he was asking about me stealing it and I said
• 50:19
  no I didn't steal it. He didn't like my answer.
• 50:24
  So he said, I'll tell you what. I'm going to I'm going to put
• 50:26
  you in County Jail. Well, with no bond and you're
• 50:30
  going to sit there until I get back from vacation.
• 50:34
  And every day that I'm on vacation and you're in County
• 50:36
  Jail. I want you to think about how
• 50:39
  you answer my questions and so they sent me off to County Jail.
• 50:45
  Wow, and I was in Rolla, there's no, no, no place close to St.
• 50:51
  Louis those who know it's about an hour hour and a half hour,
• 50:55
  hour-and-a-half drive. So even For my attorney to come
• 50:58
  see me. I was an out.
• 51:00
  It was a three hour round trip. So he did not make it easy on
• 51:04
  you at all. Well for those who have never
• 51:08
  been to jail, jail is worse than prison very much.
• 51:13
  So yeah in this case it was I learned some valuable lessons
• 51:17
  while I was at Rolla. In fact, I was there for five or
• 51:22
  six weeks. What's your thoughts being in
• 51:24
  that county jail? Because I mean that's that's Can
• 51:27
  happen. I saw a lot of things happen, a
• 51:31
  lot of fights in place guards that really, you know, they're,
• 51:39
  you know, obviously County Jail setup, much different than
• 51:42
  prison. And I just, you see this
• 51:46
  mirrored wall and then your cells are facing the mirrored
• 51:52
  wall. And on the other side of that,
• 51:55
  mirrored wall the the CEO's that Correction officers can see
• 51:58
  everything, they're watching everyone, right?
• 52:00
  But you can't see them. All you can see is yourself,
• 52:03
  right? And so I'm looking in the mirror
• 52:06
  and I, you know, see different cell, cell, doors, get, as we
• 52:11
  call popped, right? Which means a corrections
• 52:15
  officer had to of clicked a button in order for that door to
• 52:20
  get unlocked and as soon as that door popped two or three guys
• 52:24
  would go in there, have their way with Ever beef.
• 52:29
  They had with that inmate and step out, and so then they would
• 52:34
  close the door behind them. Nobody would know about it.
• 52:38
  And so I saw a lot of that in county jail and out in Rolla.
• 52:43
  It's a lot different in St. Louis St.
• 52:46
  Louis. And I've Got Friends that live
• 52:48
  out in Rolla. So I can't really say what I
• 52:50
  want to thank rahl is not like st.
• 52:53
  Louis, I have done some time. In St.
• 52:58
  Louis County Jail. And I will say it's a lot
• 53:01
  rougher and st. Louis County.
• 53:03
  Then it is out in Rolla. But County Jail to me is County
• 53:06
  jail and you see a lot of shenanigans you don't see in
• 53:10
  federal prison. So I was finally able to get a
• 53:15
  hold of my attorney. While I was in county jail and
• 53:20
  my parents were able to make sure that the check that he had
• 53:26
  cleared. Which I thought that, that that
• 53:29
  would take care of it and apparently it didn't.
• 53:32
  So. So now I'm being represented and
• 53:37
  I make a phone call from County Jail to my girlfriend, not even
• 53:42
  thinking that her parents were investors in my company, they
• 53:47
  are with the what the federal government calls victims.
• 53:52
  And so when the judge gets back from out of town, he calls me.
• 53:57
  Back. So hour-and-a-half.
• 54:00
  Uncomfortable, ride back to st. Louis.
• 54:04
  My parents, are there my attorneys there?
• 54:09
  And I'm ready to post bond. And so, he calls me up and the
• 54:14
  prosecuting attorney says your honor.
• 54:18
  I don't think he should post bond and the attorney are the
• 54:22
  the judge said, why is that? He said, well, he made a phone
• 54:25
  call to this phone. Number.
• 54:28
  And this phone number is registered to mr.
• 54:32
  And mrs. Victim.
• 54:35
  And he said, Mr. Duncan Did you not learn your lesson over the
• 54:39
  last five or six weeks? And so I said your honor if I
• 54:44
  can just explain to you please, and I explained that and nobody
• 54:50
  knew it until I explained it. Thank goodness.
• 54:52
  He allowed me just the that there no seconds to explain it.
• 54:56
  Otherwise he would have sent me back revoked any bond that I
• 55:00
  would have had and I would have stayed in there for the three
• 55:02
  years that I fought the case. So that allowed me to To my
• 55:08
  parents posted bond for me, got me out.
• 55:12
  I was on house arrest and I was on house arrest for 18 months.
• 55:17
  Well, I fought the case with my attorney, hmm.
• 55:21
  And during this 18 months, my attorney spent more time
• 55:25
  politicking for a position in the city of St.
• 55:30
  Louis, then he did spending working my case and in doing so.
• 55:37
  It taught me that not every attorney is like this
• 55:42
  individual, of course, but it taught me that I also have to do
• 55:47
  some work. Yeah, right.
• 55:49
  Right. Because nobody's going to
• 55:51
  understand and represent you like, you.
• 55:52
  Exactly. Nobody's going to.
• 55:54
  And so I would, I would write notes and I would write pages
• 55:59
  and pages of notes and then I would meet with my attorney and
• 56:03
  he would just say, okay, okay, just leave it on the corner and
• 56:07
  Remember one instance, we had set up a meeting with the Postal
• 56:12
  Inspector and the lead FBI agent to go down to the Federal
• 56:16
  Building him. My attorney and myself went down
• 56:21
  there and we were going to go through all the bankers boxes of
• 56:25
  documents that we had supplied them because we were looking for
• 56:29
  some key documents. We get down there.
• 56:33
  I'm the only one looking in the boxes, he's back there,
• 56:37
  politicking with the Postal Inspector, the FBI agent, and
• 56:43
  anybody else who's in the room. And so, I couldn't find what I
• 56:47
  was looking for. And at that time, I realized I
• 56:51
  may be in a lot of trouble because I'm not being
• 56:53
  represented properly, right? This could turn out really bad,
• 56:56
  correct. And it's not been good to this
• 56:58
  point, not good at all. And so We go through the various
• 57:04
  stages of and I'm sure you've talked about those on your
• 57:09
  podcast but we go through the various stages of what happens
• 57:14
  when you're waiting for either trial or a plea deal.
• 57:18
  And so my first plea deal was I think 10 to 12 years and I've
• 57:25
  had two little girls and I just couldn't see myself doing an
• 57:31
  entire decade. A Decker in a federal prison and
• 57:35
  watching them grow up from a distance, through photographs
• 57:39
  and letters. It's a lot to take in.
• 57:41
  It's a lot to take in and my attorney thought it was a good
• 57:44
  one and I told him I'm taking this to trial.
• 57:48
  Mmm, he goes. What are you stupid?
• 57:50
  If they get you on one, just one, you're going to get 30
• 57:54
  years. And so, we found out who, who
• 57:59
  the the trial judge was going to be and She was appointed by
• 58:04
  George w-- Bush. In my attorney was extremely
• 58:09
  intimidated by her. I'll never forget that.
• 58:12
  He said, this is not good. She doesn't like white-collar,
• 58:16
  guys. She's talking like you, she's
• 58:18
  not gonna like your story. In fact, she doesn't even like
• 58:21
  me. He says, oh great.
• 58:23
  Yeah, I can deal with the others but the not like you part
• 58:26
  checked off all the boxes here. So anyway, We get down to a plea
• 58:35
  deal of 63 months and in on half of what you're about half.
• 58:41
  And so I think it through, I think it through, I talk to my
• 58:44
  family, that could have been the last plea deal her, plea offer
• 58:50
  that they had given me before trial.
• 58:53
  So I took a Gamble and I went with and so mind you, I'm on
• 58:58
  house, arrest with an ankle monitor, I can only go to church
• 59:02
  and Work for 18 months and that in itself was difficult.
• 59:06
  I tried to get that as time served, and of course they won't
• 59:10
  do that. So, you know, I agreed to the 63
• 59:18
  months and so we go before the judge and the, it's completely
• 59:23
  up to the judge, whether they can go above, the guidelines are
• 59:27
  below the guidelines, and have you talked about the sentencing
• 59:30
  guidelines on know, but It's interesting because and the
• 59:34
  other thing I think is interesting, is that people
• 59:36
  who've been on here before, as they.
• 59:39
  So six, they everything's in months.
• 59:42
  And so, like, I remember one of the guys talking on here that
• 59:46
  was I think it was like, was it 300 some odd cents on?
• 59:51
  Well, that doesn't sound that bad.
• 59:53
  Well, then you think, okay, 120 months is 10 years, 60 months is
• 59:58
  five years, you know, that's exactly right.
• 1:00:01
  You started. You know, why don't you know how
• 1:00:03
  to add that up and months? You know, like you learn to ya,
• 1:00:07
  figure it out real fast. We talking about how many times
• 1:00:09
  how many years are going to be in prison.
• 1:00:12
  That's right. I can't remember what year they,
• 1:00:15
  the federal government adopted, the federal sentencing
• 1:00:18
  guidelines, but basically what it did was it allowed judges to
• 1:00:23
  not give extreme sentences to people, that maybe necessarily
• 1:00:29
  didn't deserve it, right? So while they're going, I'm
• 1:00:32
  through your pretrial, they're looking at your your history.
• 1:00:36
  What type of History are you? Well, you actually have a
• 1:00:39
  pre-sentencing report, you have a priest and so you they
• 1:00:41
  actually interview you with someone who's for the the
• 1:00:46
  government and you there's a long report that's made of your
• 1:00:50
  life and that serves as what do we think of him?
• 1:00:54
  That's right. And that and that follows you
• 1:00:57
  mmm that follows you even through the federal prison.
• 1:01:00
  Oh yeah. No it Right on the, the case
• 1:01:04
  managers deaths in prison and they make a decision how they
• 1:01:08
  feel about. Yeah.
• 1:01:10
  So every every stop is a new judge.
• 1:01:13
  Someone you know, who may not be an actual judge but they're
• 1:01:17
  judging you based upon. Yeah, that pre-sentence report
• 1:01:21
  and so they go by points, you know if you're if you're the the
• 1:01:25
  head of the Enterprise. It's so many points and I don't
• 1:01:29
  have one in front of me but Encourage people to look it up.
• 1:01:34
  If you're going through something like this, you're
• 1:01:36
  going through a Federal indictment.
• 1:01:38
  Look at the pretty sentencing guidelines and look at that
• 1:01:42
  point system because it'll show you kind of the range of how
• 1:01:46
  many months. Yeah, because they can decide
• 1:01:49
  your culpability within the group of people, you know, you
• 1:01:53
  know that he's the most culpable, but he's the least
• 1:01:55
  culpable. So that also was points.
• 1:01:57
  Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right.
• 1:01:59
  So, Day of Reckoning day. Day of sentencing my attorney.
• 1:02:07
  I'll never forget this, we're getting ready to go upstairs, to
• 1:02:11
  hear my fate. Even though we knew it was sixty
• 1:02:15
  three months with three years probation, which is pretty
• 1:02:19
  typical in the federal system. And so my parents, you know,
• 1:02:26
  asked if I was ready and of course, my attorney made a start
• 1:02:29
  comment. I hope you guys haven't drink
• 1:02:31
  the Kool-Aid. Ed to which basically meant.
• 1:02:35
  I hope you haven't believed his story.
• 1:02:38
  Wow, this whole process. Your attorney says, oh yeah.
• 1:02:41
  Wow, I'll never forget that. And so he told me exactly what
• 1:02:46
  to say when I stood before the judge to apologize.
• 1:02:54
  And that's what you want to do. You want to apologize?
• 1:02:56
  Listen, I'm sorry this happened. I didn't want anybody to see
• 1:03:00
  that there were hurt now maker. Dance ability and so I put it in
• 1:03:06
  my own words. Hmm.
• 1:03:07
  And my attorney did not like it. And so, when I put it in my own
• 1:03:12
  words, the I'll never forget the the the judge, the federal judge
• 1:03:18
  poured. Some water to take a drink and
• 1:03:20
  she started coughing. She started it went down the
• 1:03:23
  wrong pipe and she said, excuse me.
• 1:03:27
  I've got to go back to my Chambers.
• 1:03:29
  Oh my God. Stop talking and I'm Almost
• 1:03:32
  finished with my speech, you know?
• 1:03:35
  And so she goes in the back and my attorney slams his fist on
• 1:03:40
  the table and he's like, what are you doing?
• 1:03:44
  You're supposed to tell them. You did this on purpose, you're
• 1:03:47
  supposed to tell him that you did.
• 1:03:49
  This knowing that people would know right now, what happened?
• 1:03:54
  Right? It's not what happened.
• 1:03:55
  So she comes out. I don't know. 52, it seemed like
• 1:04:00
  an eternity. Your honor comes back out all
• 1:04:04
  rise so we rise and she sits down and she said mr.
• 1:04:08
  Duncan I apologize to you that has never happened.
• 1:04:11
  All the years had been a federal judge, I apologize.
• 1:04:14
  She said, but while I was in my Chambers, I saw two stacks of
• 1:04:19
  paper on my desk. She said, I quickly glanced at
• 1:04:22
  them. One of them is a stack like this
• 1:04:26
  and I'm showing Brent, it's probably about four inches
• 1:04:29
  thick. I think she says in this hand
• 1:04:31
  I've Got letters from people pouring in from all over the
• 1:04:36
  country saying that you're a man of character, you helped them,
• 1:04:40
  you've helped their kids, you've helped their families, she said
• 1:04:43
  in this hand I just have a few letters from people that don't
• 1:04:48
  like you. Mmm.
• 1:04:50
  She said, based upon the fact that she said, I hate the fact
• 1:04:56
  that you accepted the plea deal but you had to do what you had
• 1:05:00
  to do. Hmm.
• 1:05:01
  I Believe you did this on purpose. she said, but what I'm
• 1:05:06
  going to do is because you did a 63 month, plea deal.
• 1:05:13
  I'm not going to go above it. Now.
• 1:05:14
  Can I go below it? I'm good.
• 1:05:16
  Just going to give you sixty three months.
• 1:05:18
  She said, but this stack of letters that I have and I still
• 1:05:22
  have those today because they give you these and and the bad
• 1:05:26
  ones. And so I know the people that
• 1:05:28
  yes talked bad about me but the the letter with the the are the
• 1:05:33
  stack of letters. She said these people talk
• 1:05:36
  highly about you and they know you better than I do and So,
• 1:05:39
  with that being said, sixty, three months gaveled on the
• 1:05:43
  table, my attorney walks out and he was mad.
• 1:05:51
  I don't know what kind of an agreement he had with the
• 1:05:54
  prosecutors and the prosecution or why I was supposed to say
• 1:06:00
  what I was supposed to say, but I didn't say it, right?
• 1:06:03
  And so they let you go home. If you're, if you're on Bond and
• 1:06:08
  they have your And you're not a Flight Risk.
• 1:06:11
  They let you go home with family and it takes about 30 days.
• 1:06:16
  You get a letter in the mail, which is weird, which is weird,
• 1:06:19
  and it says Mr. Duncan such, and such this is the Bureau of
• 1:06:24
  Prisons. You have been appointed to and
• 1:06:29
  where I was appointed to was Springfield Springfield.
• 1:06:32
  Missouri, Field. Missouri, which is really weird
• 1:06:35
  because I used to ride my bike around because I grew up in
• 1:06:38
  Springfield move. And say, listen, I was 14.
• 1:06:40
  So we would ride across town because I lived on the east
• 1:06:43
  side, we would we would ride our bikes and that was kind of like
• 1:06:46
  the scary place out, you know, will you, I dare you to drink
• 1:06:49
  ride your bike up to that front door, but it is kind of a scary
• 1:06:54
  place because it's a hospital, it's a medium security, I
• 1:06:58
  believe. Is that correct?
• 1:06:59
  So Anna and it's got a camp. Yes.
• 1:07:01
  So they call it administrative so they have adjacent to the
• 1:07:05
  main facility is a camp and Inside the main facility is what
• 1:07:12
  the Bureau of Prisons calls administrative which is a
• 1:07:15
  combination of low medium and high.
• 1:07:20
  Okay, so it's also you've got you've got guys in there that
• 1:07:23
  are in there for Life. Yeah, for whatever reason you
• 1:07:27
  got, you've got, you know, there are people in there from
• 1:07:30
  Honduras who were drug smugglers, you meet all kinds of
• 1:07:35
  characters in federal prison and so I'll never Forget my day of
• 1:07:41
  self surrendering, my wife, and a female friend of mine, drive
• 1:07:46
  me to Springfield, Missouri, and I'm ready.
• 1:07:50
  I'm going to do 63 months in a camp, you know, I'm being
• 1:07:57
  possibly given an opportunity to participate in a program called
• 1:08:02
  our data. Yeah, you know, all about our
• 1:08:04
  tap and when you do good there, then that could possibly take.
• 1:08:09
  You're off your sentence. So in the federal system, you
• 1:08:13
  serve 85% of your time as long as you don't lose your good
• 1:08:17
  time, right? And where I was at was not easy
• 1:08:21
  to keep good time, not because I'm a bad person, but because
• 1:08:26
  there are people always trying sure.
• 1:08:28
  You gotta be regarding. Yeah.
• 1:08:30
  Did you think you were going to the camp?
• 1:08:32
  Is that? Because I remember that there
• 1:08:35
  was kind of legend in the federal system, the Springfield
• 1:08:39
  campus Up. Because what what Legend was at
• 1:08:42
  Leavenworth was, is that you only there was only like 25
• 1:08:46
  people there and you had it was like in a smaller lake house and
• 1:08:51
  it was totally different than like where I was living.
• 1:08:55
  You know, we had a fence and barbed wire and the whole thing
• 1:08:57
  and he was real prison. But Then when the guys would
• 1:09:03
  come from there and they said well it's not but you thought
• 1:09:05
  you were going there. I did to that.
• 1:09:07
  Yes. Yes in fact what you should have
• 1:09:10
  been the way. Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Which I mean based upon those yes, sentencing guidelines,
• 1:09:15
  right, fit, right in there. I was Camp eligible yelling and
• 1:09:19
  so I get there and there, you know, guards and it's in the
• 1:09:24
  main facility. Yeah.
• 1:09:25
  The can't write a facility and I tell them hey I'm Aaron Duncan
• 1:09:29
  I'm here for the camp. Yeah.
• 1:09:33
  And I had called a couple of weeks before to see what I could
• 1:09:36
  bring with me and they said, oh, where you going?
• 1:09:39
  I said will spur the the camp at Springfield they're like okay
• 1:09:42
  you can wear a brand-new pair of white tennis shoes as long as
• 1:09:45
  they're all white and you carry in your Bible.
• 1:09:47
  It's okay perfect. So I get there and I tell them,
• 1:09:50
  okay, I'm going to the camp they're looking at their their
• 1:09:54
  roster and they're like, what's your name again?
• 1:09:58
  How do you spell it one person checks that they look in the
• 1:10:01
  computer system. Mr. Duncan we're sorry but you
• 1:10:05
  are not on the list to go to the camp.
• 1:10:07
  That's a hot sweat right there. I, that is, that is not good.
• 1:10:13
  I didn't I didn't know what it meant I'm like.
• 1:10:15
  Well well I tell you what. It's so weird when you I
• 1:10:19
  voluntarily surrendered Leavenworth.
• 1:10:21
  They process everybody and they big ugly building that looks
• 1:10:24
  like Shawshank and that's for a lot of different reasons.
• 1:10:26
  They prison eyes you but also scare the crap out of you that
• 1:10:30
  in your first thought is when they put you in that cell for a
• 1:10:32
  I'll mu H Click by is huh. Wonder if they know the, I'm not
• 1:10:40
  the one that's supposed to be in this prison.
• 1:10:43
  And you, you know, then you think well, well who would I
• 1:10:45
  tell like who would I talk to what rights do I have?
• 1:10:49
  I'm a, I'm just surrendered myself into this building.
• 1:10:53
  So you actually had that happen, though.
• 1:10:56
  Exactly. My nightmare became your real
• 1:10:58
  nightmare. It happened, it happened.
• 1:11:02
  In fact, Act. They dress you out.
• 1:11:04
  Yeah. As you know, the prison eyes you
• 1:11:06
  and they tell my mom and my friend.
• 1:11:09
  Wait, because we're going to bring his clothes out so you can
• 1:11:12
  take those with you, right? And I need those for the next.
• 1:11:14
  Now, he won't need me. He won't be needing those in
• 1:11:16
  here, so they, they, they stripped me out.
• 1:11:20
  They put me in an orange jumpsuit and they said where
• 1:11:23
  you're going. You're not going to need this
• 1:11:25
  Bible, you can't take it in anyway because I later found
• 1:11:29
  out, you can carve. Yeah, that's what they do in the
• 1:11:32
  But yeah, it's exactly what they do.
• 1:11:34
  And so they took my Bible, my jeans everything out, except for
• 1:11:42
  My white pair of tennis shoes. Okay.
• 1:11:44
  And so they, they took me up through this, this various
• 1:11:52
  hallways. And by this time, I have no idea
• 1:11:55
  where I'm at. And just within a blink of an
• 1:11:59
  eye, I am at the front door or gate, if you will, of one of the
• 1:12:06
  loudest 18 man, sells, I've Were heard and I did time in County.
• 1:12:13
  Sure. I, you know, I know these guys
• 1:12:15
  are, it's a jungle and so they open the door.
• 1:12:19
  I'm in a white jumpsuit with some fresh white sneakers on.
• 1:12:24
  I've got my bedroll and all that stuff and they say, okay, Betty
• 1:12:29
  18 and bet 18 was a top bunk. Yeah, I know new guys get in the
• 1:12:35
  bottom bunk. No new guy here.
• 1:12:36
  You know all about that. No, you're not getting the
• 1:12:39
  bottom bunk that long while and so Federal federal prison is
• 1:12:43
  very, very segregated, right? You know, I didn't know that
• 1:12:49
  there was nobody that I really talk to going in because I
• 1:12:51
  thought I was going to a camp where everybody is is friends
• 1:12:55
  you guys all work together but we're I was at blacks on one
• 1:13:00
  side whites on the other Mexicans very primitive.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah, very much. So and so I walked in and I had
• 1:13:08
  I had seen people that Could be on movies and I'm sure their
• 1:13:15
  stories could be a scary place and you're in a medium prison,
• 1:13:21
  right? Yeah.
• 1:13:22
  At this point where they released me, too.
• 1:13:25
  I was in, I was in the low medium and Max.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah, so, so the max there were, there were several maximum
• 1:13:34
  security people in there that were lifers for various murders
• 1:13:40
  or You know what have you and so I don't know who's who.
• 1:13:46
  There's, there's no name tag. Everything's a number.
• 1:13:50
  All I knew is I remembered my my federal number and that's that's
• 1:13:55
  what you're called by and and out of respect the CEOs will
• 1:13:58
  eventually call you by your last name?
• 1:14:01
  Never your first but by your last name, right?
• 1:14:03
  And so I had a nickname. My nickname was was my last name
• 1:14:08
  shortened, which is dunk. So, Dunk was my last name or was
• 1:14:14
  my nickname and so I go in and I have I'm afraid to walk around
• 1:14:18
  at each Bonk because everybody's staring me down.
• 1:14:21
  When you're in an orange jumpsuit in everybody else's and
• 1:14:24
  grey sweats and in khakis and everything else.
• 1:14:28
  You do they know you're the new guy?
• 1:14:30
  Yeah and they're checking it out there checking me out.
• 1:14:34
  That is one thing that's very very right on point to movies.
• 1:14:38
  Is they all those guys really did new guy does It checked out
• 1:14:42
  because they're coming in you're coming into their world to live
• 1:14:45
  with them. That's right.
• 1:14:46
  So you yeah. That's right.
• 1:14:48
  And I did not know it at the time but part of my bedroll
• 1:14:53
  inside, there was of course, my bedding and my pillow and there
• 1:14:58
  was a folder. Okay.
• 1:15:00
  Did not know yet what that folder was for until.
• 1:15:05
  But first, I had to meet the very first person that I had
• 1:15:08
  even spoken words to and in a Durrell prison, and it was the
• 1:15:13
  biggest black guy I'd ever seen in my life and he came up to me
• 1:15:17
  and he wanted my one of my tennis shoes.
• 1:15:20
  He said, those are mine. Take them off in front of
• 1:15:24
  everybody. Am I knew everybody's grabbing a
• 1:15:26
  seat if there is popcorn machine?
• 1:15:29
  They would rather have her to watch this.
• 1:15:31
  Yeah. So he said, I am not going away.
• 1:15:35
  Those are my shoes either. Give them to me, or I'm taking
• 1:15:38
  them off. So again, this is this is a
• 1:15:41
  test, you know, to see how you react, how you react because all
• 1:15:46
  I know is I'm going to be here, 63 months and I'm not going to
• 1:15:50
  be that that guy that guy. So growing up in Ferguson
• 1:15:56
  growing up with Brothers growing up in an environment where
• 1:16:00
  sometimes I had to fight my way out of situations.
• 1:16:06
  I didn't want to do that, so I thought I could use my Words.
• 1:16:09
  Yeah, the older I've gotten in life.
• 1:16:13
  I realized words can sometimes deescalate things a lot quicker.
• 1:16:17
  Yeah. Not in the federal prison system
• 1:16:20
  and so I took my left shoe off right handed, right footed?
• 1:16:27
  I, I wasn't a kicker in football and I wasn't very good at soccer
• 1:16:32
  but I took my left shoe off and I threw it down in his
• 1:16:36
  Direction. And as soon as he bent down to
• 1:16:40
  pick up that left shoe as hard as I could, I kicked him with my
• 1:16:44
  right shoe. Hmm.
• 1:16:46
  And I knocked him backwards. Split his head open.
• 1:16:49
  His forehead was bleeding everywhere and everybody's eyes
• 1:16:55
  were wide open. Their jaws were hitting the
• 1:16:57
  ground like oh my God this little white guy just did that.
• 1:17:02
  Yeah, and I didn't knock him out.
• 1:17:06
  I should have finished. Hushed it off, if I could have.
• 1:17:10
  But I thought maybe he'll just leave me alone because I just
• 1:17:13
  kicked him as hard as I could. If I was two years into my
• 1:17:20
  sentence, I would have known better.
• 1:17:22
  I didn't know better, he got up and it was the worst
• 1:17:26
  butt-kicking. If I'm allowed to say that on
• 1:17:29
  your pod, can you say, whatever you want on here?
• 1:17:30
  It was the worst crisis under explicit.
• 1:17:33
  So you can say whatever you ask kick.
• 1:17:35
  Yeah. I had ever received in my life
• 1:17:39
  and there were no guards. It was like I said, I think I
• 1:17:45
  believe around 18 people, 16. Yeah.
• 1:17:48
  Hmm. Seventeen myself 18.
• 1:17:50
  So we were the only ones that seen it.
• 1:17:52
  Yeah. And crazy thing about that is is
• 1:17:55
  prison. There are really aren't a lot of
• 1:17:58
  calm CEOs, but there's not a lot of guards, you know.
• 1:18:02
  They come around to do the count but as far as once an hour yeah
• 1:18:06
  there's far. As you see you, I mean I'm not
• 1:18:09
  really no, not at all. They came around, did the count?
• 1:18:12
  And that's when they realized the new guys in.
• 1:18:17
  He might need some stitches. My eyes were nearly swollen
• 1:18:21
  shut, I couldn't hardly see through them.
• 1:18:23
  What an intron, he had a gash in his forehead and there's blood
• 1:18:31
  all over the place, but they didn't see it happen.
• 1:18:34
  So, there were no cameras. Nobody saw anything.
• 1:18:36
  So they took him to the hole and they took me to the hole also
• 1:18:41
  called the shoe, which is especially special housing unit
• 1:18:46
  and so I'm still in the water. I won't say that I gave her a
• 1:18:52
  bottle of water, and now, I'm going to drink his water, by all
• 1:18:55
  means. Go ahead.
• 1:18:57
  So they take us to the shoe to the hole.
• 1:19:00
  And there are no clocks. The windows are so tiny.
• 1:19:04
  You can't tell if it's dark or our daytime.
• 1:19:07
  You just it's it's a mental. I think the incredible thing
• 1:19:10
  about this story is this is your first my first.
• 1:19:13
  Yeah. First encounter.
• 1:19:14
  Yeah, first first first. Yeah.
• 1:19:16
  There's a few hours and it was all because of Tennis shoes,
• 1:19:19
  right? And so, I About three or four
• 1:19:25
  days later a nurse comes by she checks.
• 1:19:27
  And she's like you doing. Okay, so it's ma'am.
• 1:19:30
  I'm fine. And she, you know, I had to get
• 1:19:33
  three or four stitches and my left eye and a couple stitches
• 1:19:38
  and one of my cheeks and the swelling started to go down over
• 1:19:42
  time. And all I could do is just sit
• 1:19:45
  there and think I didn't have a writing utensil.
• 1:19:47
  They wouldn't give me paper and every day, they wield power.
• 1:19:53
  Past or at least to my door. And the corrections officer
• 1:19:57
  said, listen, if you tell us that all he had to do our, all
• 1:20:02
  he did was try to steal your shoes will let you out of here
• 1:20:08
  or at least give you a book to read or writing utensil and
• 1:20:11
  something to write on. I said nope.
• 1:20:16
  I've now I didn't know how long I was in there until afterwards
• 1:20:19
  90 days. I'm going to tell you.
• 1:20:21
  Wow. Seems like an eternity.
• 1:20:24
  Wow, that is a long time in a long time.
• 1:20:27
  Yeah. People come out looking
• 1:20:28
  different after 90 days. Oh yeah.
• 1:20:30
  I was I was Skin and Bones. Yeah.
• 1:20:32
  II was not the same person and they let you know, in their 23
• 1:20:38
  and a half 23 hours and your let out for rec time, And or shower
• 1:20:44
  time, which and 45 minutes to an hour, depends on what kind of
• 1:20:48
  mood, they're in. You get to pick or choose and
• 1:20:51
  there were days, I would much rather go outside and get some
• 1:20:54
  fresh air and take a shower. Sure.
• 1:20:56
  And then other days, I'd rather take a shower then go outside.
• 1:21:00
  So I had to pick and choose and so I didn't know anything about
• 1:21:06
  the other guy. Didn't know, I didn't know his
• 1:21:08
  name didn't even know if he was still in the hole.
• 1:21:12
  Mmm. Find out later 90 days.
• 1:21:15
  Let's fast-forward ninety three months, three months.
• 1:21:17
  They let us out and they put us both back into this same cell 18
• 1:21:24
  people. There's some fresh faces in
• 1:21:26
  there. Yeah there's some new guys but
• 1:21:28
  there's some other guys that said, hey man, come here, I've
• 1:21:32
  got some shoes for you. I've got some I've got some
• 1:21:35
  trying to bury some soup, some different things to give you.
• 1:21:40
  I earned some respect. And although he and I eyed each
• 1:21:45
  other over the next three years. I saw him out on the yard many
• 1:21:50
  times in the chow hall. One side is white, all white,
• 1:21:55
  sit on one side. All blacks on the other.
• 1:21:58
  That's just how the federal system is.
• 1:22:00
  And there were many many times. We would just look at each other
• 1:22:04
  and I didn't know it until later, but he had also served 90
• 1:22:09
  days in the hole and they were doing the same thing to him.
• 1:22:12
  They Doing to me all you have to do, well, let you is say that he
• 1:22:16
  kicked you in the forehead and we'll let you out.
• 1:22:21
  So the reason why 90 days is because that's the maximum
• 1:22:24
  amount of time that you can stay in the hole.
• 1:22:28
  Otherwise I mean, I'm telling you you start seeing things sure
• 1:22:31
  after around the yeah the 30th day.
• 1:22:35
  So it was a nightmare that is a nightmare, it was a night and
• 1:22:38
  that is that was your entry into prison, which is Unbelievable.
• 1:22:44
  That was my entry and mind you. I am all I can think about.
• 1:22:49
  Is that phone call to home? Yeah.
• 1:22:51
  My parents don't even know. No, they're like, as soon as you
• 1:22:55
  get in and get settled, give us a call right there, thinking a
• 1:22:58
  couple days. It was a 90 days and I'm sitting
• 1:23:02
  there worried about them. What do they think?
• 1:23:04
  Sure. They think I'm going to Camp.
• 1:23:07
  They don't even know. They don't even know that you're
• 1:23:09
  a big house that I just got out of the Shoo after spending 90
• 1:23:14
  days. So when you so when you got past
• 1:23:17
  all that How did you handle your time?
• 1:23:21
  So I worked out a lot. Yeah, I worked out a lot.
• 1:23:24
  I surrounded myself with, you know, in federal prison if
• 1:23:28
  you're not affiliated with a gang, you become Affiliated or
• 1:23:33
  you surround yourself with what's called a car.
• 1:23:36
  Right. And so I found four people you
• 1:23:39
  hang out with. Yeah that's right.
• 1:23:40
  And so I found I found my car and thankfully being in
• 1:23:46
  Springfield Missouri. There were probably A about 20
• 1:23:49
  of us in one car, which is pretty unusual.
• 1:23:53
  Because like you said, most cars are position three or four
• 1:23:55
  people that there were a lot of us.
• 1:23:58
  And so we worked out together. We played Sports together and on
• 1:24:05
  our compound. There were aluminum bats.
• 1:24:10
  Wood bats. We played flag football.
• 1:24:13
  Yeah, we played just about every spot, a lot of handball of
• 1:24:17
  course and balls. Of course, Morale is a prison
• 1:24:19
  sport. Yeah, absolutely that's one
• 1:24:22
  sport. If you do know how to play, you
• 1:24:24
  have to learn how to play handball.
• 1:24:25
  Yeah. Because they'll size you up by
• 1:24:28
  your hand ball game. So I played a lot of sports.
• 1:24:33
  I worked out and my when you get to prison Jason.
• 1:24:36
  Yeah. So when you get to federal
• 1:24:38
  prison, you get a job. And my, after I got out of the
• 1:24:43
  hole, after that whole incident, I clean.
• 1:24:46
  Toilets 04. Or I think 30 days.
• 1:24:50
  Well and I'm like I've had enough of this.
• 1:24:52
  Yeah. So I went down to my the, the
• 1:24:58
  lady who handles all your paperwork.
• 1:25:00
  Yeah. The case manager.
• 1:25:02
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 1:25:02
  The case manager. She hated me.
• 1:25:05
  Hmm. She said you're going to be
• 1:25:07
  cleaning toilets for the next sixty.
• 1:25:09
  Three months. If it's up to me and she said,
• 1:25:14
  I've read your entire case, I know why you're in here.
• 1:25:17
  You get into a fight, your Today.
• 1:25:21
  Yeah, you know she said but there was nothing they could do
• 1:25:24
  because there was no evidence, nobody told, right?
• 1:25:27
  And so, here we are 15 years later.
• 1:25:31
  I can tell this story. Not worried about, you know,
• 1:25:35
  tacking on charges or whatever. But so I went to another case
• 1:25:43
  manager and and it was it was a gentleman who really liked me.
• 1:25:48
  Said, you know what? We have a law library clerk
• 1:25:52
  position, open. You typically have to be here,
• 1:25:55
  20 years to get that job. He said, but I'm going to give
• 1:25:58
  it to you, so he gave it to me. Well and so I worked in the law
• 1:26:01
  library. I helped a lot of people with
• 1:26:03
  their cases and I think that's what really drew me to what
• 1:26:08
  you're doing. Now, is that, that is so cool
• 1:26:10
  though. So you started helping, guys
• 1:26:13
  because you started reading and knowing and, and getting really
• 1:26:17
  probably, More familiar with with what was going on than the
• 1:26:21
  attorneys that put you there. That's so And then, you know,
• 1:26:26
  the other thing is interesting about that prisons of an odd
• 1:26:30
  place but you gain respect in different ways you do.
• 1:26:33
  And by you being that guy, you created your own Avenue of your
• 1:26:38
  own respect which in prison kind of.
• 1:26:42
  That's the fuel that everything runs on it is, you know, if you
• 1:26:45
  don't have respect in prison you have a hard hard road to hoe.
• 1:26:49
  I can't even imagine and I've seen those guys.
• 1:26:51
  Yeah. You're right.
• 1:26:53
  Yeah. And they've done.
• 1:26:54
  On 5 10 15, 20 years our gear. I can't imagine.
• 1:26:59
  So you and I want to go back to. So when you were finally able to
• 1:27:03
  get a hold of your parents after three months, I mean, they had
• 1:27:07
  to have been. I don't even know.
• 1:27:10
  I mean you finally were able to make a phone call.
• 1:27:13
  Yeah yeah I can't even imagine what they would have been
• 1:27:16
  thinking on their than line. They dropped you off.
• 1:27:18
  Thought you were at the camp. You're in Gladiator school and
• 1:27:22
  and you're making a phone call. Any days later, right?
• 1:27:26
  90 days later. I'm very crazy about what I tell
• 1:27:29
  them. Yeah, because everything's I
• 1:27:30
  record my things recorded and so I just basically told them the
• 1:27:34
  phone systems have been down and some other BS stuff that just so
• 1:27:43
  they wouldn't they wouldn't be too afraid.
• 1:27:46
  So not to have them worried more than what, what you would have,
• 1:27:49
  normally. Exactly, right.
• 1:27:51
  So Aaron tell me this. So you I know things kind of get
• 1:27:54
  Get strange, once you get in for a while.
• 1:27:56
  Did you do the our debt program? I did do the art.
• 1:27:59
  Okay, so, yeah, so that, that's, that's a whole society to itself
• 1:28:03
  in prison, which is it is, but it does give you your off.
• 1:28:08
  And that's one of the only programs in the whole federal
• 1:28:10
  system that will actually give you a time off like that.
• 1:28:14
  Absolutely. And I, you know, I think there's
• 1:28:16
  some good things to it. I think it's depends on who runs
• 1:28:18
  it. Yeah.
• 1:28:19
  And who the people are that are doing it.
• 1:28:21
  But I think the intent is to try to Reduced recidivism and do
• 1:28:26
  rational thinking and all those things which is probably a good
• 1:28:29
  thing. Correct.
• 1:28:30
  It's done and implemented. Right?
• 1:28:32
  Right. Yeah.
• 1:28:34
  Yeah I did it. It's a nine-month program and
• 1:28:38
  it's intense. It is intense.
• 1:28:40
  You live there. You know you pretty much are in
• 1:28:45
  that environment for nine years but it's worth the year off.
• 1:28:49
  I was able to build an amazing relationship with the rdap I
• 1:28:54
  call them CEOs. But to me, they weren't CEOs.
• 1:28:58
  They were, they were, they were people right on the streets,
• 1:29:02
  right? Like they were right like you
• 1:29:03
  and I they were they were genuine people who cared.
• 1:29:06
  Yeah. And and they showed that.
• 1:29:09
  And so, you know, if I could with their permission, I wish I
• 1:29:14
  could say their names, but they to this very day are amazing.
• 1:29:20
  I would love to go back to Springfield and talk to an rdap.
• 1:29:24
  Good group. I would love to.
• 1:29:26
  Yeah, well, I was going to ask you like when you started
• 1:29:30
  because you're kind of established yourself into that
• 1:29:33
  Library. When you started getting five,
• 1:29:36
  six months to the door knowing that you're going to get out.
• 1:29:41
  I know a lot of things that go through your mind.
• 1:29:43
  You're like, what am I going to do?
• 1:29:44
  How am I going to live as an ex-convict?
• 1:29:45
  You know what? You know, how will I, who's
• 1:29:48
  gonna hire me? What am I get it?
• 1:29:50
  How do I get back into society and still make a difference?
• 1:29:54
  What? What's going through your mind?
• 1:29:56
  First thing that was going through.
• 1:29:57
  My mind is, how do you overcome the fact that people are just
• 1:30:02
  going to judge you? Hmm.
• 1:30:04
  And even walking through the grocery store, you feel like
• 1:30:08
  people you don't even know are just looking at you.
• 1:30:11
  Yeah. Like, you've got it written on
• 1:30:12
  your face. Tattooed on your forehead.
• 1:30:14
  Yeah. Convicted felon.
• 1:30:16
  Which is not the case. And so I quickly overcame that
• 1:30:20
  the institution I came from because of the type of 30 levels
• 1:30:25
  that were there. I would find myself sitting with
• 1:30:28
  my door with my back to the wall, and not the door, and
• 1:30:32
  certain things and certain things.
• 1:30:34
  But so I developed a it's a it's a four-phase process, basically,
• 1:30:43
  okay? For anybody that's going through
• 1:30:45
  what we've been through, and it's called The Road to
• 1:30:49
  Redemption, okay? And number one is publicly
• 1:30:51
  acknowledge your wrongdoing, okay?
• 1:30:54
  Which Is typically what you do. When you sit down with your
• 1:30:56
  family, you give your speech to the judge.
• 1:31:01
  So the whole Court can hear you, right?
• 1:31:03
  So you're not saying I mean if you really did something wrong.
• 1:31:08
  Yeah, honest right. Tell them.
• 1:31:10
  Hey, I apologize. I'm sorry.
• 1:31:12
  So public publicly acknowledge your wrongdoing number to pay
• 1:31:15
  the price. Yeah, restitution.
• 1:31:19
  Yeah. Is a price.
• 1:31:20
  Yeah. Federal time is a surprise.
• 1:31:23
  Yeah. Many prices that go along with
• 1:31:26
  that. And number three is vanish.
• 1:31:28
  And for me, Vanishing was 63 months away, we have gave people
• 1:31:34
  time to forget about who I was, which was good.
• 1:31:41
  And so the fourth and final one, which is one of the most
• 1:31:44
  important ones is come back with a new Focus, love it.
• 1:31:48
  So instead of that drunken coming back and selling real
• 1:31:52
  estate and getting back into the market to provide Prove myself,
• 1:31:57
  it's come back with a new focus and that's what I think you've
• 1:32:01
  done as well. And well I think I think what it
• 1:32:04
  does to Z when you find that new focus, it gives you a new
• 1:32:07
  passion to burn from. And you know, in reading your
• 1:32:12
  backstory and you're helping so many people and whatever that
• 1:32:17
  is. It's kind of one of those
• 1:32:19
  intangible things but knowing that you're helping those people
• 1:32:22
  that gives you fuel to move. Forward using your experience.
• 1:32:26
  I mean, you have a unique experience to share, sir, and
• 1:32:30
  you have knowledge that you wouldn't have had.
• 1:32:33
  That's correct. Except for the fact that you
• 1:32:35
  went into this whole thing so that you sit down and you talk
• 1:32:37
  to somebody who's scared to death, they're either their
• 1:32:40
  companies folding or their indicted and they are they're
• 1:32:44
  convicted. And they know they're going to
• 1:32:45
  you can help that through so many different layers to talk
• 1:32:50
  somebody off the ledge. That's exactly right.
• 1:32:52
  And and and I do that on a regular Allure basis and I it's
• 1:32:56
  my passion. Yeah it's what I enjoy doing
• 1:32:59
  things. Very cool.
• 1:33:00
  I appreciate that. I really do.
• 1:33:02
  It's in fact a lot of those people.
• 1:33:05
  I would love to just send your way and so your listeners can
• 1:33:08
  hear their story. Yeah but just talk about
• 1:33:11
  incredible stories but you know I love helping people.
• 1:33:16
  Yeah well in the in your story is that all the way through.
• 1:33:20
  So you have you have repositioned yourself. now, with
• 1:33:26
  all those things that you step through, which I can't imagine,
• 1:33:31
  I mean, in fact that you actually went to somewhere that
• 1:33:34
  you at to a medium maximum low place when you thought you were
• 1:33:42
  going to catch that whole Readjustment and realignment
• 1:33:44
  was, I mean, how you got through that is just fascinating because
• 1:33:48
  that's every guys Nightmare if they're thinking they're going
• 1:33:53
  somewhere else. Definitely?
• 1:33:55
  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I've got to say this when
• 1:33:59
  I, when I got out, you know, obviously you go to a federal
• 1:34:05
  halfway house? Yeah.
• 1:34:06
  And in st. Louis.
• 1:34:07
  It's not in the best part of town.
• 1:34:09
  No. It's in the place where
• 1:34:10
  everybody shoots each other. And yes, prostitutes.
• 1:34:13
  And there's drugs and it's all happening right outside the
• 1:34:15
  door. And so, I remember, One day I
• 1:34:21
  was waiting on the bus at the bus stop.
• 1:34:23
  I was wearing a suit because I was a busboy at a restaurant.
• 1:34:27
  You know, the halfway house gets you ready to get back into
• 1:34:30
  society. So I'm wearing a suit, I'm
• 1:34:33
  waiting for the bus so I can take the bus to my job which is
• 1:34:36
  at a restaurant as a busboy. And so this one particular time
• 1:34:43
  I'll never forget I was about six or seven.
• 1:34:46
  Guys come up to me and they say that tie you're wearing It
• 1:34:51
  doesn't belong in this neighborhood.
• 1:34:53
  Take it off, you don't understand.
• 1:34:57
  I need this because I'm going to work, I've got to have this tie
• 1:35:00
  on. You don't understand and I
• 1:35:05
  didn't know what was going to happen.
• 1:35:07
  These guys, I know they had they had pieces on them.
• 1:35:11
  I two of them, lifted up their shirts and I seen him.
• 1:35:14
  I thought, should I take the tie off?
• 1:35:16
  Should I not? And then literally seconds
• 1:35:19
  later, I hear this. Under his voice from behind me.
• 1:35:23
  Say, leave him alone. If you ever mess with this guy,
• 1:35:27
  again, you're going to deal with me who was in, they scattered
• 1:35:32
  and I turned around and it was the guy who asked me for my
• 1:35:37
  shoes. Wow.
• 1:35:39
  First day in prison from st. Louis is name is Moe.
• 1:35:44
  It's not his real name since street name is Mo and then, as
• 1:35:48
  he pulled off, that kind of brought chills Is on my skin
• 1:35:52
  that holds story right there crazy.
• 1:35:54
  It is crazy, how things happen and and as he pulled off he
• 1:35:58
  looked down at my brand-new dress shoes and kind of gave me
• 1:36:02
  a nod and said nice shoes. Wow and took off that is such a
• 1:36:05
  cool story. I want to ask you something
• 1:36:08
  because just saying that you're going to start something.
• 1:36:12
  It's not that easy. What?
• 1:36:14
  Was because it's a very humbling experience.
• 1:36:16
  Like you said, you're going doing the busboy deal, and you
• 1:36:19
  do gets extremely humbled, when you go to prison, and when you
• 1:36:23
  come out, How do you start taking your steps to get and
• 1:36:27
  rebuild and get to those people to help?
• 1:36:33
  That's a good question through connections, just through people
• 1:36:38
  that, you know, a lot of family really helped me.
• 1:36:42
  It's fantastic. I-i've got a great Core group of
• 1:36:48
  family which is an interesting thing and I'll go back, I won't
• 1:36:52
  bore you too much with this, but this was interesting while I was
• 1:36:55
  going through my investigation, the feds interviewed my
• 1:37:00
  grandparents and my Aunts Uncles.
• 1:37:03
  Cousins people that had some sort of a part in this
• 1:37:07
  connection and I didn't know it but I couldn't even talk to
• 1:37:10
  Grandma and Grandpa. Yeah, I couldn't talk to my
• 1:37:13
  cousins because they were potential Witnesses against me
• 1:37:18
  and so that was hard but throughout that entire ordeal
• 1:37:23
  our entire family stayed strong. Yeah.
• 1:37:28
  And to this day my family knows the truth.
• 1:37:30
  Yeah, they know what happened. And so through the family, you
• 1:37:35
  know, the thing about that is to is it when you know, when a
• 1:37:39
  person goes to prison, the family goes to prison because
• 1:37:41
  they have to figure out how to deal with it.
• 1:37:42
  I do the fact that your family stayed together and you're still
• 1:37:46
  that core unit says a lot about all of you and how you survived.
• 1:37:50
  Because there's a difference, you know, you survived that they
• 1:37:53
  survived that, and it makes you stronger, it does.
• 1:37:56
  It does what doesn't kill you? Make sure it's, but they say,
• 1:38:00
  well, let me ask you this are because I always ask everybody.
• 1:38:03
  See, this is it going through everything you've gone through
• 1:38:06
  because you've gone through a hell of a lot.
• 1:38:09
  What, what do you think? Your biggest takeaway after
• 1:38:11
  walking through all this mess? And now being in a position to
• 1:38:15
  be doing what you're doing? You know, I when I saw earlier
• 1:38:22
  on when I said I started out as a as a youth Minister because I
• 1:38:26
  loved helping young people, I didn't have the experiences, I
• 1:38:32
  didn't have the lessons. I didn't have the stories of
• 1:38:36
  what's really happened to Aaron. Duncan I can only tell other
• 1:38:40
  people's stories right now. I have a catalog of my own
• 1:38:43
  still, get your own Foundation starts.
• 1:38:45
  Yeah. And and I'm able to share that
• 1:38:48
  too. Again, to the people that I'm
• 1:38:50
  able to help and getting ready to launch a brand new brand
• 1:38:54
  called built for battle. It's sorry about that.
• 1:38:57
  Yeah, so the the slogan is I was built for this and the cool
• 1:39:03
  thing about it is so we're putting together some merch and
• 1:39:07
  when you see somebody in the grocery store or wherever and
• 1:39:10
  they're wearing a hoodie and it says I was built for this on the
• 1:39:13
  front of it. It makes you stop and wonder
• 1:39:16
  what is that? So We did it as a test about a
• 1:39:21
  year ago and it was a young lady who was battling cancer and the
• 1:39:27
  doctors had given her less than six months to live and so long
• 1:39:33
  story short she beat, mmm, the doctors still to this day.
• 1:39:37
  Cannot figure out how she beat it. 99.999 whatever that
• 1:39:43
  percentage is and I could be off, but there's a high
• 1:39:46
  percentage of people that do not sure.
• 1:39:49
  Survive that type of cancer. And so wearing that hoodie, I
• 1:39:54
  was built for this. She was stopped in the grocery
• 1:39:56
  store by two people. And one of the people stopped
• 1:40:01
  and asked, can I ask, what others, what is it?
• 1:40:04
  I was built for this me and she told them the story.
• 1:40:08
  Well, just two years ago I was diagnosed with an incurable.
• 1:40:12
  Cancer. And the doctors had only given
• 1:40:15
  me six months to live and she said, I'm here talking to you
• 1:40:20
  today, two years later. She said I was built for this
• 1:40:24
  hmm. And so that person said, can I
• 1:40:27
  use that slogan to be able to tell my testimony to other
• 1:40:31
  people? And so the goal is to get that
• 1:40:34
  out there so that we can all tell our stories about the
• 1:40:38
  battles. We've gone through battles of
• 1:40:40
  depression addiction. Prison whatever it maybe we've
• 1:40:44
  all gone through battles but there's lessons to be learned
• 1:40:48
  from them. Always.
• 1:40:49
  Yeah. And so that's in a nutshell,
• 1:40:51
  what bill for Batman, and I love that.
• 1:40:53
  That's a good way to end that. I mean, Aaron, that is good
• 1:40:57
  stuff. I'm built for this.
• 1:40:59
  I love that. Thank you.
• 1:41:00
  I appreciate that good stuff and you're doing good stuff and I
• 1:41:03
  just keep doing it for those out there.
• 1:41:07
  We talked about book, I wrote a book and I measure success.
• 1:41:11
  Well it's a betrayal. Behind Bars.
• 1:41:12
  Adapting. Finally Breaking Free.
• 1:41:14
  A memoir. Definitely do the reviews.
• 1:41:18
  I'm loving these reviews on Apple for those using your
• 1:41:22
  phone. It's just a little three dots.
• 1:41:24
  It drops down. Follow the show to it gives you
• 1:41:26
  that option to follow the show, followed the show, share it.
• 1:41:29
  You want to leave me a message broadcast e.com, love that I
• 1:41:34
  just want to share with you the guys that are starting next
• 1:41:39
  week, the guys behind the The the walls that were talking
• 1:41:43
  about, I just got in, he do, oh gosh, I'm not saying it right.
• 1:41:52
  It's the company that had. We're in 200 prisons jails
• 1:41:55
  across the country. To listen for you guys that are
• 1:41:59
  Behind. The Walls is the Discovery
• 1:42:00
  section type in Nightmare success in and out.
• 1:42:03
  And you'll start seeing the episode.
• 1:42:06
  I'm really excited about that. There's some good stuff in here
• 1:42:08
  and I'm going to be excited to hear the feedback.
• 1:42:14
  For everybody. When I used to be on my computer
• 1:42:18
  type an email back and forth, as I would say stay strong and I'll
• 1:42:22
  do the same Aaron. Duncan, thank you for today.
• 1:42:25
  I appreciate it, I appreciate it.
• 1:42:27
  And I'm glad to be able to call you friend.
• 1:42:29
  It's nice to finally right back at you, Aaron.
• 1:42:31
  Yeah, you're doing great. Thanks man.
• 1:42:33
  Not only in the same city, but I appreciate you.
• 1:42:36
  You've reached a lot of lives. You've touched a lot of lives.
• 1:42:39
  I appreciate that. You're doing the same thing.
• 1:42:43
  I'm more success in and out. So, you guys,