Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Terror of the Vervoids (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Terror of the Vervoids (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 1:10
  Good evening and welcome back to A Hamster with a Blood and Pet
• 1:13
  Knife, the Doctor Who Commentaries podcast.
• 1:16
  In a change to the schedule, this opening will no longer be
• 1:20
  sung. This is due to the listener
• 1:22
  feedback from the last time I tried singing a song from Rocky
• 1:25
  Horror Show. So we won't be doing it again.
• 1:28
  So instead of tonight's recital of Damn It Janet, we will just
• 1:32
  have me talking. Good evening and welcome to the
• 1:35
  end the terror of the Vervoy. Hello Fraz, what would be a good
• 1:39
  song for Terror the Vervoy? Is there any sort of plant
• 1:42
  themed songs? Well, we'd have to have
• 1:44
  something from Little Shop of Horrors, I think.
• 1:47
  Oh, go on. Which Which bizarrely, was being
• 1:49
  made around the same time as as this this film as this is so
• 1:55
  yeah, main. In the hierarchy.
• 1:59
  In the hierarchy of evil plants, I mean, where does Vervois fall?
• 2:04
  Yeah, well, it's got sea to doom, the evil Ivy from the Keys
• 2:08
  of Marinus. Are these the most effective
• 2:12
  sinister plants? I think it's probably the
• 2:15
  crinoid really. And even then they make the
• 2:18
  mistake of letting it talk. So yeah.
• 2:23
  What are the plants? Have we got any other ones?
• 2:27
  Has there really aggressive foliage in the new series?
• 2:31
  Oh, Meg loss. Oh, definitely.
• 2:34
  Well, yeah, of course. Yeah.
• 2:36
  Yes, General Crocker, I am the plant.
• 2:41
  An enormous rubber cactus. Has anyone tried to do a musical
• 2:47
  Agatha Christie? I'm not sure there's been a
• 2:50
  musical. I think the the estate of Agatha
• 2:53
  Christie are quite litigious and they would not allow that and
• 2:57
  they're quite possessive of their their IP.
• 2:59
  So I'm not sure that that's happened.
• 3:03
  Well, that answers my second question then is why has no one
• 3:06
  tried to do a musical? Version of Agatha the state of
• 3:10
  Agatha Christie would not allow. It why has no one ever done a
• 3:14
  musical of terror of the Vervoise?
• 3:16
  I mean, imagine God, the end of episode 1 speaker an operator of
• 3:21
  her going, all the sparks going everywhere, first thing out
• 3:25
  plants. It'd be great.
• 3:29
  That's what the world's missing. I'm sure you could do rap
• 3:32
  versions of Pip and Jane dialogue it.
• 3:37
  Has a rhythm all of its own. It's true.
• 3:41
  And in my book, that's murder, that's.
• 3:44
  Right, you can have Yeah, the whole the the.
• 3:47
  May have an intrigue song that goes into the back story of the
• 3:51
  Doctor and Tonka Travers. I wonder no one's ever done
• 3:55
  their ever adventure. Let's Get it by Michael Craig is
• 3:58
  still alive. No, you're wrong.
• 4:01
  It was alluded to in Instruments of Darkness, a 6th Doctor book
• 4:05
  by Gary Russell, of course, where Evelyn Smythe was had a
• 4:11
  romance with him and that's why he hates the Doctor because he
• 4:14
  took Evelyn away from him. No, yeah.
• 4:17
  Well, there we go. I've completely blanked that
• 4:21
  from my. Mind cry for me, Evelyn, Smile.
• 4:25
  You know. Well, look, fellas, right?
• 4:30
  There's lots happening in the story.
• 4:31
  There's we're heading towards enormous holes.
• 4:36
  There's creatures on the move. Somewhere on the ship is a
• 4:39
  murderer. Well, just the one.
• 4:42
  Surely we cannot shove in any more.
• 4:46
  Plots. In this story, Oh no, wait, I
• 4:49
  believe we're about to have a hijack.
• 4:53
  I bet we nothing we better crack on with it then, hadn't we?
• 4:56
  We had to, yes. So I shall count us in then in
• 5:00
  54321 and go for the whole. I've been waiting for you to
• 5:11
  sign up for years. That was the wrong time to take
• 5:18
  a man full of water. I'd never laugh more though when
• 5:21
  I was doing these with you so. We didn't laugh this much at
• 5:25
  Mind Warp. We laughed quite a bit at Mind.
• 5:28
  Warp we did. Oh yeah, sorry, I'm not a
• 5:31
  patriot so I haven't heard it back.
• 5:32
  So just go how? How did you find that scene was
• 5:40
  set in that episode, Fraser? Oh yes.
• 5:45
  Yes, it's set to seem very well. Thank you.
• 5:48
  I'll give you that. High art critique in the hamster
• 5:53
  in the trees. That coming from a man who's a
• 5:57
  contribution was yeah, why still got nipples.
• 6:03
  Oh God, nipples fannies, I mean. Trial of a Tyler's got it.
• 6:07
  All it's true. Someone off the set there's just
• 6:12
  throwing that crockery about in the bathroom, aren't they?
• 6:15
  It's. Gary.
• 6:16
  Downey You think you're better than Doctor Who body?
• 6:21
  He's throwing it straight out. Oh, excellent turbulence acting
• 6:26
  going on here. Even the Wicker chairs are
• 6:29
  overturned. Things aren't serious.
• 6:33
  Cornetals are. So fancy a cornet so looking at
• 6:36
  that hole. You know.
• 6:39
  How do kids imitate the Vervoids?
• 6:42
  They sort of pretend. Whisper and and it's the hand.
• 6:45
  I think it's the hand when blowing the dart out.
• 6:48
  That's the. Yeah.
• 6:51
  Oh, you could have a cigarette, couldn't you?
• 6:53
  Blow out the smoke. No kids would be doing that.
• 6:57
  That's not a good thing. They didn't crawl it I.
• 7:02
  Actually, they're pretty much did Bracknell as well, so.
• 7:05
  Marsh gas. I believe that's a methane
• 7:07
  derivative. Oh, it is.
• 7:09
  Yeah, if I'd farts. Marsh gas is highly toxic, isn't
• 7:13
  it? Yes, and and highly flammable.
• 7:16
  That's. Going to melt your skin off
• 7:17
  though like. No, that's mustard gas.
• 7:21
  Oh, sorry. It would go up with like a light
• 7:25
  when they turn that torch on it like.
• 7:28
  Yeah. There's no need for a heroic.
• 7:32
  In Carnival of Monsters. Now it is a bit odd because
• 7:36
  look, that ship is totally going straight.
• 7:38
  Into the middle of that. Hole.
• 7:40
  And then when we cut away in a second, it's sort of just silly
• 7:44
  fears off, yeah. What we need is Jason Thompson
• 7:48
  here to explain how that's impossible.
• 7:54
  Possible as the case. Craig Craig on the commentary
• 7:57
  and he's excellent value. He's like, oh, he goes.
• 8:00
  I remember doing this scene and they were like, right, you gotta
• 8:03
  rock about, you know, Star Trek style, as if he goes, but don't
• 8:06
  touch the. Walls.
• 8:07
  They're very delicate. And he also says as well, this
• 8:14
  is so funny. He had the gun, right?
• 8:16
  And he kept going. Stop making the noise, we'll do
• 8:23
  it in post. Oh look, he's Mr. Raj behind it
• 8:29
  all. He's the murderer.
• 8:33
  Yeah, and it's the Megarians. Rushing the Megarians.
• 8:38
  That's my band name. They do look like the brain,
• 8:41
  don't they? They've got them all.
• 8:47
  My. Design, though I like the masks.
• 8:51
  All my life you pair have been patronising me, treating me with
• 8:54
  contempt. Well, I'd like a chance to
• 8:57
  settle the stakes. Yeah, take us to the passenger
• 9:00
  lounge. Go on.
• 9:01
  That's right, a fate worse than death.
• 9:03
  Sitting in those Wicker chairs. Charlie is very pretty, isn't
• 9:10
  she? She must have been rude now.
• 9:13
  No, she she did. Eventually handsome lady.
• 9:16
  Yeah, she did. Episode of Blake 7.
• 9:18
  She was so quite young. Yeah, she did not.
• 9:22
  Not long after this. I don't think so.
• 9:26
  But you say she's got a really naturalistic acting style.
• 9:30
  She should have, yeah, could have been big.
• 9:34
  Wobbly 7 machine. She was in pressure point.
• 9:36
  She is Kasabi's child. Oh, she like a rebel.
• 9:41
  Yeah. Yeah, I remember.
• 9:45
  What on earth is that? Lie there at the back of the
• 9:48
  set? What is that supposed to be?
• 9:50
  Do you see it? That's stylish.
• 9:52
  Stylish. Yes.
• 9:54
  Well, yes, it's the old Barry let's thing.
• 9:58
  If you chop someone at the back of the head, they fall
• 10:01
  unconscious. Yeah, everyone has very delicate
• 10:04
  necks and shoulders in the future.
• 10:06
  I actually think this is a great performance from the guy playing
• 10:08
  Rd. because he does. He's holding a gun but he looks
• 10:11
  scared and pathetic. Doesn't.
• 10:13
  He, yeah, he's got a great line in being pathetic.
• 10:16
  It's really good. A primord guy though, where's he
• 10:20
  come from? Primord.
• 10:24
  Oh, it's big hairy guy. Oh, he's the pilot have.
• 10:28
  We seen him before. We've seen him, yeah.
• 10:30
  He's been at the bridge all the way through.
• 10:32
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:33
  He does. Look like a prime.
• 10:35
  Oh my God. Is he cleared to speak?
• 10:37
  Have you heard? No, no, it's.
• 10:40
  That 1 then. No, I think every time you hear
• 10:43
  someone on the con, it's the same man who played Edwards
• 10:45
  because he had lines. There is a great scene in the
• 10:50
  minute between the doctor and the Commodore where they're sort
• 10:53
  of figuring it out and, yeah, discussing why Raj isn't the one
• 10:58
  behind it all. And someone needed to say that
• 11:00
  out loud because I think at this point we all think more this is
• 11:03
  what's been happening. Yeah, and the one person we're
• 11:06
  not suspecting is the person who's actually done it, which is
• 11:10
  exactly what you should have in a whodunnit.
• 11:13
  I remember being quite surprised when it was revealed that it was
• 11:16
  stolen. I wasn't.
• 11:17
  Didn't see that coming at all. But you're right, because very
• 11:20
  slowly he gets more and more scenes as the story goes.
• 11:23
  Yeah, he is hiding in plain sight.
• 11:25
  Yeah, that's that's the best 2 Donuts.
• 11:28
  The ones where. Yeah, but there are enough
• 11:32
  clues. Imagine if him and Janet had
• 11:35
  been lovers and they were sort of murdering everyone together.
• 11:39
  But they don't know that they are.
• 11:40
  Now they take Mel in that room and sort of cut her throat.
• 11:44
  But it does, it does Nick a few beats from Nightmare of Eden.
• 11:48
  I think this story, it is very similar.
• 11:53
  It just it needs a bit more Art Deco, doesn't it needs a bit
• 11:56
  more. I think you have a Mordred.
• 11:58
  It's strangely, yeah, because the outside of the shift is very
• 12:02
  kind of Art Deco design. Then inside, it's kind of 1980s,
• 12:07
  yeah. Garden center.
• 12:10
  Garden center glamour. Garden center chic.
• 12:15
  There's on a Blackman thinking, what have I done?
• 12:16
  End up here, laying there. I used to be an Avenger, you
• 12:22
  know. Diana Rig wouldn't be doing
• 12:25
  this. But you know what, right, You
• 12:28
  get none of that barrel Reed attitude from Earth shock.
• 12:31
  No, you see, she's having a great time behind the.
• 12:33
  Scenes. It's absolutely adoring being in
• 12:35
  this store. I think the whole cast really
• 12:38
  enjoyed this one. They tell the story don't they,
• 12:40
  of the after party where Malcolm Tierney that stolen drags it up
• 12:44
  and does like a one man show and Pip and Jay Baker said they
• 12:48
  honestly she was almost pissed in her knickers she was laughing
• 12:50
  so on. I'm paraphrasing.
• 12:54
  Yeah, what would, how would and it goes, how would you pip G in
• 12:59
  three is that? She said we had to leave the
• 13:02
  room. I think that's how she says it.
• 13:04
  She was laughing so. Hard.
• 13:06
  Looking for the little. Lady, I nearly mitigated my
• 13:08
  underwear. Ask you about the now I'm
• 13:12
  talking in story now, not as ABBC production, the design of
• 13:16
  the Hyperion 3, where the air ducts are five times the size of
• 13:20
  the cabins. I mean, this is, these are the
• 13:23
  biggest ventilation shops in the whole world.
• 13:27
  I mean, we've seen some outrageously huge.
• 13:30
  Don't go there. Don't talk about.
• 13:32
  I'm not having that look from Fraser.
• 13:34
  Well, when we did Impossible Planet, do you remember?
• 13:36
  Oh, there was a sexy vents. I mean, these vents have got
• 13:41
  gorgeous sort of tubes coiling along.
• 13:44
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 13:47
  Look at the vent on that give you.
• 13:48
  The code for the macarons I just had a bit of.
• 13:50
  The Munch. In their face.
• 13:52
  Yeah, because they're allergic to water.
• 13:55
  It was acid it. Was acid, isn't it?
• 13:57
  Oh, and look at their faces. That's rubbish design of their
• 14:00
  faces. But then all because, yes,
• 14:02
  because they sit in the chair and they spin around and go what
• 14:04
  are you doing here? We didn't order any refreshments
• 14:06
  from you, Janet. And then get wet, acid thrown in
• 14:10
  their face and it melts the visor and obviously they can't
• 14:12
  breathe so they die. Oh, Ruth Baxter.
• 14:14
  I mean she's being attacked by pricks left, right and centre
• 14:18
  industry. She's got pricks in the lab now.
• 14:19
  She's just been pricked to death.
• 14:22
  By a prick. Giant brick.
• 14:27
  Oh, let's Mr. Raj Panic hold the keys and run.
• 14:34
  You know the bit what he. Threw down there.
• 14:36
  I thought it was the key. Helmets.
• 14:39
  Oh yeah. It looks like he's trying to
• 14:41
  throw his his vial of smoke. He's so rubbish.
• 14:51
  Did. You think I wouldn't have an
• 14:56
  escape plan? Oh no, that's the case.
• 15:00
  I mean, I've got to try and get in the car with the smoke.
• 15:05
  You see this? She goes.
• 15:06
  You a gun? Because we should have seen me
• 15:09
  last season. I picked up every gun, every
• 15:11
  weapon. It's not a gun, it's a feaser.
• 15:16
  It is. It's very Star Trek this week.
• 15:18
  It's nice design as well. It's a bit different.
• 15:21
  After everything, Star Trek's pinched from this.
• 15:24
  But just make sure you don't go but you when you use it.
• 15:28
  You know fellas, I entered this affair as a Judas goat.
• 15:31
  I intend to readopt the role. Oh, and there's Rudgecon.
• 15:36
  Yeah, I mean, do you, do you know the way sort of stiffened
• 15:39
  there and died. I always hoped to go stiff,
• 15:41
  didn't you? If only you could all see
• 15:51
  phrases that you can actually you know what phrases faced.
• 15:54
  So why do you hang out with us? Seriously, He does.
• 16:00
  He does go on Sensible reasonable podcasts as well.
• 16:06
  Oh. Dear, you know I'm never
• 16:09
  frivolous about murder, fellas. No, Poor David.
• 16:13
  So this tape, it's important then he's he's so brilliant at
• 16:17
  playing this. I know that I'm innocent.
• 16:21
  And so it must be the professor. Because he goes, I can't believe
• 16:24
  the professors guilty. Yeah.
• 16:26
  And I know that I'm innocent. Or must be Janet then and.
• 16:30
  He's got a really good motive as well, hasn't he?
• 16:32
  No, he. Just wants to exploit his body
• 16:35
  admiring the design. If you finished with my
• 16:38
  tracksuit. Don't bother to lie, you're not
• 16:43
  very good at it. We find the tape.
• 16:48
  We find who done it. This is a glorious scene for
• 16:52
  Colin, the fact that he set the whole thing up before he even
• 16:56
  walked in. And he's got his little gadget.
• 17:01
  And the fact that the Dachshund knows that he set it up before
• 17:05
  he goes in and has set it up even more than is set up by by
• 17:10
  Dolan is brilliant. I think you like the way they
• 17:13
  made those cassettes sort of space age as well, yeah.
• 17:16
  You know, I always like that. To make it all deep.
• 17:21
  It's lovely because the he's, he's still underplaying it
• 17:25
  despite this being the classic villain reveal and the murderer
• 17:29
  reveal, you know, so. I like how I've had it wasn't
• 17:32
  difficult to pinpoint you, you know, and then goes through all
• 17:35
  the murders. It's just sort of his pyro
• 17:37
  moment, isn't it? Yeah, except he's not doing it
• 17:41
  in front of the audience. He's just doing it to the one
• 17:43
  he's. Doing it in front of this
• 17:45
  audience. Yes.
• 17:47
  Well, yeah, it needs to gather everyone in the the, what do you
• 17:52
  call it, the lounge to do it properly.
• 17:55
  I love the fact that they even use this scene to get one last
• 17:58
  bit of education. And, you know, a very
• 17:59
  spectacular empire, Rome, was built.
• 18:01
  On slave labour. Came to a pretty nasty end
• 18:06
  though, didn't it? Let the verb avoid doing a male
• 18:11
  and listening in. Oh, what?
• 18:14
  Oh, is that the plot? Oh, that's what he's up to.
• 18:16
  Oh, OK. Factories, he goes.
• 18:19
  Bad. Like the sound of that?
• 18:20
  You've never guess what I've just heard.
• 18:22
  All right, Kill everybody. Oh, my consortium with a vision.
• 18:29
  Oh, I love the. Consortium.
• 18:30
  That might be the boss from the new series.
• 18:33
  Maybe. We'll never get it explained.
• 18:35
  Oh. Shit, I best tell my boss about
• 18:37
  this, off I go. Which brings us meatly.
• 18:40
  To you and he was going to shoot him.
• 18:42
  Yeah. Zero, dear.
• 18:46
  I took the precaution of disarming it.
• 18:47
  Oh, and I told the Commodore we were coming.
• 18:50
  In as well. There's Tonka.
• 18:54
  Oh, in a minute. You know the solution that he
• 18:57
  comes up with? The vine.
• 18:58
  Did you ever see Michael Craig do that line in his garden?
• 19:03
  Age 19. Seasons design made long.
• 19:07
  He is just. Howling with laughter, isn't he?
• 19:15
  Dolan, you've signed your death warrant.
• 19:20
  Oh no, he's got to wait. Oh no.
• 19:23
  That was very clever because there's clearly just one set.
• 19:26
  Yeah, it's not your enemy. I'm your friend, I'll take your
• 19:31
  hand full of. I love them taking the hand and
• 19:34
  forgetting. Why did they decide them with
• 19:37
  poison darts? Well, really.
• 19:40
  Pip and Jane wanted poisonous vines that they would whip
• 19:44
  people with. J&T went sorry, we can give you
• 19:47
  spikes. That's it.
• 19:49
  Fair enough. I do love that the I do find the
• 19:56
  conclusion really satisfying though.
• 19:58
  Their plants so just accelerate their life cycle.
• 20:06
  Maybe we'd lack your divine insight, Fraser.
• 20:10
  It's logic. OK.
• 20:14
  You know Si Yeah. In, where are you from
• 20:17
  originally? Somerset.
• 20:20
  In Somerset, you know, in your garden, yeah, you had a load of
• 20:22
  plants. What did you do with them?
• 20:24
  Put them on the. Compost.
• 20:28
  You were obeying instinct. Si do.
• 20:31
  You have a big compost heap at work.
• 20:33
  We do that. We have a massive compost heap.
• 20:35
  I would imagine big steaming compost heap.
• 20:42
  Oh, we were all. Thinking of somebody?
• 20:43
  Then I'll just say AI here. Finally, we need your undivided
• 20:54
  commitment. Did I ever say that to you?
• 20:57
  Too Abbott. We started on this endeavour of
• 21:00
  doing all these commentaries, so I'll say yeah, I need your
• 21:02
  undivided commitment. You didn't.
• 21:06
  You forgot that, Yeah. Sorry.
• 21:10
  Just pulled you along on a string.
• 21:12
  I just didn't take much to convince us.
• 21:14
  It's pretty much here. Do you guys fancy doing all of
• 21:17
  trail of a time launch? And we went Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 21:20
  fine. That's.
• 21:20
  Right. Well, I can't believe we're 2/3
• 21:22
  through now. No more.
• 21:24
  Than 2/3 we're. Going to have to go somewhere.
• 21:27
  Quarters. Even more exciting next,
• 21:32
  actually, we've got Summer Series 2 to.
• 21:36
  Do. Perhaps in some ways, guys, the
• 21:42
  Ham fam are all our children. I think I'm going to vomit.
• 21:53
  My God, there's a load of attacking army of Fanny plants.
• 21:57
  Don't worry honor, Black men will see them off.
• 22:01
  Are you sure? Doesn't she get a prick in the
• 22:04
  hand? Oh no, in the neck.
• 22:09
  Doctor, let's get out of here. Leave her to it it.
• 22:13
  Was a wonderful I met her. Professor Lasky, we know who you
• 22:18
  are. You created us.
• 22:23
  Woman of evil, we are free. What on a black man you met?
• 22:30
  Yeah, on a black man. Gorgeous lady.
• 22:32
  Really, really smart. Really good.
• 22:37
  No as well. Now we're doing that Earth shock
• 22:39
  thing. We're cutting back to scenes of
• 22:41
  action. All of a sudden it's like scene,
• 22:43
  scene, scene, scene. So there's real.
• 22:45
  Pace is good at good at the pacing of his script, yeah.
• 22:49
  I love it when they pick up the Wicker chairs and there's Janet
• 22:52
  going, my God, they're never going to give up.
• 22:55
  They're everywhere. That is a genuinely alarming
• 23:00
  image. All those bodies, they're just
• 23:02
  piled up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:07
  And although we we've taken the Mick out of this, it is a really
• 23:10
  good way of talking to the younger members of the audience
• 23:14
  and explaining what's going on and what they're doing.
• 23:17
  It's also that thing that Colin wanted to do, which was give the
• 23:20
  Doctor an alien sense of morality.
• 23:22
  Yeah. Different perspectives,
• 23:24
  differently. Yeah.
• 23:25
  And I really like as well that they they just allow some time
• 23:30
  once they've all become mulch, just to show that Colin is upset
• 23:36
  and comforting now as well. Oh, Janet, man, you better.
• 23:40
  You can't shut those. Doors.
• 23:44
  The scripting in this scene is something else.
• 23:49
  Word for King's ransom? Seasons I made long, but how's
• 23:54
  the blazes by Anesium A? Rare metal found on the airless
• 23:59
  planet of Mogar, which we mentioned when we opened the
• 24:01
  story. Oh, I mentioned again when we
• 24:04
  were talking about who are you? Another prospector.
• 24:07
  It's always been there. It's similar to magnesium, a bit
• 24:13
  more education. Yeah, in spring, summer, autumn,
• 24:17
  all condensed into a few moments.
• 24:18
  That is a nice line. Seasons which I may be a long
• 24:21
  time enjoying again if I go robbing my own vault.
• 24:24
  Seasons you can forget. Sigh.
• 24:26
  If you don't, you. Have no choice, Sir, You're.
• 24:33
  Cut off. That is well greatest line.
• 24:37
  The Doctor's the only hope you've got.
• 24:43
  You know, that's a pretty thankless line to have to
• 24:47
  deliver, isn't it? You know.
• 24:49
  Or every single line she has all attentions and crew.
• 24:56
  The crew at this point is Janet and the Primord.
• 24:59
  Yeah. Oh, this, this here with this
• 25:04
  bleached red lighting. I think this is my very first
• 25:07
  glimpse of Doctor Who. I remember coming into the
• 25:10
  living room, I swear it was Mum was watching Doctor Who on the
• 25:14
  telly. I was very, very young at this
• 25:17
  point. What would I have been, 4-5?
• 25:20
  86. And I just remember seeing like
• 25:24
  monsters going and a red light and being terrified of mum
• 25:28
  saying bed and just to get out. Oh, Mel, the Firemesia, Mel.
• 25:37
  Oh, don't you love a negative effect as well?
• 25:40
  Oh, obviously. Oh, it's very funny, one of
• 25:43
  these verb boys goes. Clutch my head.
• 25:48
  Oh no, I don't like it. And that's it.
• 25:51
  It's a really nice negative effect.
• 25:53
  It's. Really good, isn't it?
• 25:54
  Yeah, Because it's sort of phase in and out as well.
• 25:56
  Yeah, Yeah, It's a great ending, I think.
• 26:01
  And because it's sort of built, we've unveiled the killer, we've
• 26:04
  had loads of action with the Vervoids fighting people.
• 26:07
  And then they go all autumnal. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:10
  That's nice. There's just a moment for a
• 26:13
  moment of tragedy. These cuts are hemmed.
• 26:16
  Holding Janet. That's really.
• 26:17
  That's lovely, isn't it? That's.
• 26:19
  Yeah. Who's he?
• 26:20
  Utterly unnecessary. Janet flirts with anyone she's
• 26:24
  having off wait half the ship. I'm telling you, you know.
• 26:27
  What I mean, it's just. Coffee, Janet.
• 26:29
  There's only about half a dozen crew on the ship so.
• 26:32
  Sorry, you don't think that's a euphabism to you?
• 26:35
  I think it might be. Oh my God.
• 26:37
  I mean, Edwards, he's a terrible flirt and this is like he just
• 26:41
  holds her in a way that he really hold Perry.
• 26:47
  I just kind of done with another season.
• 26:50
  I don't want any of Doctor Who to change after this.
• 26:53
  So I still want Cartmel but. Yeah, someone's throwing in the
• 26:57
  leads quick. More leads, More leads.
• 27:01
  Apparently that's not Colin's hand, though.
• 27:03
  No, it's a, it's a special effects hand.
• 27:06
  Oh. Is it?
• 27:08
  Yes. Oh, this is a cute goodbye scene
• 27:15
  as well. That's his way of complimenting
• 27:20
  comparing me to an elephant, she goes.
• 27:26
  Oh, where they're going next, I wonder.
• 27:28
  The Juggernauts. The One Doctor.
• 27:30
  Yeah, catch 1872. Oh yeah, I like that one.
• 27:35
  Yeah. Have you ever heard?
• 27:39
  This rendering of on with little motley.
• 27:41
  Count your. Blessings, your blessings.
• 27:43
  Sigh. Look there, Janet's got a knife
• 27:48
  in her hand. I'm telling you.
• 27:51
  He's not getting out of that hold alive.
• 27:53
  It's not the Ronnie that Scott Buzz the 6th Doctor, it's Mel
• 27:56
  when he starts singing. And tell me if I'm wrong.
• 27:59
  I think this is a good rug pull in the.
• 28:01
  Trial brilliant. Yeah, absolutely brilliant.
• 28:04
  And the Valiard gets the upper hand.
• 28:06
  He. Knows.
• 28:08
  The doctor doesn't even realise where the Valiard.
• 28:11
  'S going for a second, does he? He gives him enough rope to hang
• 28:14
  himself, Yeah. And the last line, Jason nails
• 28:19
  it. That charm must now be here.
• 28:22
  Go on genocide. It's great.
• 28:28
  It is great. And it's the second time we've
• 28:31
  ended a story where they've really kicked you into the next
• 28:34
  story. I think that one should count
• 28:40
  double, yeah. It suddenly has double power.
• 28:45
  I think they took a run at Colin as well.
• 28:47
  We just cut away before he smacked him in the face.
• 28:49
  That's. That 10/2.
• 28:53
  That's Oh no, is it? What are?
• 28:58
  We 9:00 to 11:00 here. No 9:00 to 12:00.
• 29:01
  Yeah. So yeah, 10/2. 10/2.
• 29:07
  That's a lot of put in place. Yeah, there's only been 2,
• 29:10
  hasn't it so far that have been, haven't finished on Conor
• 29:13
  Baker's face so. Well, wasn't that good.
• 29:18
  So much fun, even more enjoyable experience with other people.
• 29:24
  It's a proper like Saturday night.
• 29:25
  Get your mates over, get popcorn in watch.
• 29:28
  That's a that's a good Doctor Who group watch story, yes.
• 29:32
  It's I can imagine that one, if we went to the BFI, that would
• 29:35
  just be. People would be screaming with
• 29:38
  laughter, wouldn't they? All the way.
• 29:39
  Through. Well, I mean, you know what
• 29:42
  we've got to do now. We need to find our three
• 29:47
  suspects for the potential. No, no, our three fabulous
• 29:50
  reasons to reckon. I mean, this is 1.
• 29:54
  I could go on for 56 reasons, Fraser, but why don't we start
• 29:58
  with you and then sigh and then I'll come in at the rear?
• 30:02
  Stop it. OK, What should I pick first?
• 30:07
  And I'm going to pick Bonnie Langford because you know what?
• 30:11
  I didn't say many nice things about Mel to start with.
• 30:14
  But what I did say was Bonnie Langford is is just brilliant.
• 30:20
  You know, she is consumer professional and obviously very
• 30:25
  talented performer and she gives everything to the rule of Mel.
• 30:29
  The issues that I have with Mel are absolutely nothing to do
• 30:31
  with Bonnie Langford and she needs recognition.
• 30:36
  She didn't get the recognition at the time.
• 30:38
  If nothing else, she needs recognition for getting the Ian,
• 30:41
  the being the fuck out the office.
• 30:45
  Bonnie Langford girlfriend, Yeah.
• 30:49
  I'm gonna say Hip and Jane Baker because they come in at the last
• 30:56
  minute when we're in crisis. I need a script yesterday.
• 31:00
  It's going to be Murder on the Orange Express in space and
• 31:06
  without any problem. They come up with the goods.
• 31:10
  They come up with a decently plotted, easy to follow,
• 31:14
  sophisticated enough for the adults, but not to put off the
• 31:19
  enough clues for the children. Got really great characters,
• 31:24
  astonishing in a lot of cases dialogue.
• 31:27
  But throughout it all you've got a really clear plot progression.
• 31:32
  It's all explained, it all hangs together.
• 31:35
  It is very tightly done. And they don't get enough
• 31:39
  credit. They really don't.
• 31:41
  And the way we have laughed, we've laughed at some of this,
• 31:44
  but it's affectionate. It's we can see what they've
• 31:48
  done. They've they're really competent
• 31:51
  writers and that's exactly what the show needs at this moment.
• 31:55
  And Eric Saywood, you were wrong.
• 31:57
  They this is what the show needed.
• 32:00
  I don't give you any time to get bored.
• 32:02
  There's always something happening in this.
• 32:04
  Story, even in the third part of the story where we said
• 32:07
  naturally this is where it usually falls down.
• 32:11
  There's a lot of momentum and a lot of incident to keep it
• 32:14
  moving, and the plot is moving all the time, and you're getting
• 32:17
  more and more clues about who's done it.
• 32:19
  So yeah, really, really good. Why do they've got some weird
• 32:22
  friends, You know, they talk about their friend in the
• 32:25
  scientific community. They've got many of them.
• 32:28
  They get all their techno battle from and this one does
• 32:31
  experiments on plants to prove that plants could feel pain.
• 32:36
  That's what I'm saying. And and then they tell the story
• 32:40
  about the neighbor who had sort of, you know, heavy hanging
• 32:43
  fruit trees all their life. And then she dies and then the
• 32:47
  trees never fruited again after that.
• 32:49
  But I'm like. Where do you live?
• 32:52
  It's a. Good story like my first one is
• 32:58
  going to be a hugely underrated director.
• 33:01
  Chris Clough doesn't get anywhere near the praise that he
• 33:05
  deserves. I think he directs 6 distinctly
• 33:09
  different Doctor Who stories and he gives them all a unique
• 33:13
  flavour. He aces the Bass under siege
• 33:16
  here. He does that sapphire and steel
• 33:19
  atmosphere in the next story really well.
• 33:22
  The period atmosphere in Delta and the Bannermen, that sort of
• 33:26
  space fairy tale atmosphere. The budget's working against
• 33:28
  him, but he gives it a good crack in Dragon Fire, Happiness
• 33:31
  Patrol, Fraser and possibly is laziest in Silver Nemesis, but
• 33:37
  he still gives you dynamic action and some very, very
• 33:41
  pretty locations. But I think this might be one of
• 33:43
  his strongest. It's certainly one of his best
• 33:47
  casts, and he does cast extremely well.
• 33:51
  I think he's in line with where John Nathan Turner wants to take
• 33:55
  Doctor Who. And as a result, this just feels
• 33:59
  like a really confident production when the set pieces
• 34:03
  need to hit in this. He knows exactly how to edit the
• 34:06
  scenes. He gets great shots.
• 34:08
  That camera coming up at the end of Episode 1, you know, he knows
• 34:12
  when to zoom in on Ruth Bacter's face.
• 34:14
  He really does pull this off. And I I think there is genuine
• 34:18
  momentum in episode 4 where it feels like the ship has gone to
• 34:22
  fucking hell and no one's going to get out of it alive.
• 34:25
  I think he's great. Yeah, I would agree.
• 34:29
  My second thing then is going to be the Vervoids themselves.
• 34:34
  And obviously we've talked at length about what they resemble.
• 34:38
  Leg Fraser. Length.
• 34:40
  Yes. Depth as well.
• 34:43
  So I think the I mean they're obviously supposed to be like an
• 34:47
  orchid or something and it's just unfortunate that they have
• 34:49
  come out looking a little bit more than that.
• 34:53
  But regardless of that, they are just a fantastic monster.
• 34:57
  And this is what, you know, the this series needs is just a
• 35:02
  really definable monster indeed. Look, iconic, the ACT iconic.
• 35:09
  I remember watching this and just thinking, yeah, this is
• 35:11
  monster. This is a monster story.
• 35:13
  This you know, we had the mad robot, we've had God knows what
• 35:16
  this middle one was about really the psychodrama and everything.
• 35:19
  But we've just got, like you say, this meat and potatoes,
• 35:22
  really fundamental monster story.
• 35:28
  And the Vervoids really fill that that rule, the way they're
• 35:32
  written, the way that their story unfolds, the way that we
• 35:35
  just see bit by bit by bit of them until we get like a big
• 35:38
  full on reveal and the movement that the dancers give them.
• 35:42
  Everything just really works. These are the sort of things
• 35:45
  that you could see coming back, you know, if we had, if we did
• 35:48
  have, you know, a season 23 B under pip.
• 35:52
  And you can fully expect somebody like the Vervoids to
• 35:55
  come back. Fraser Even a leaf should fall
• 35:59
  on fertile soil. Clues there Janet will be Janet
• 36:05
  will be exploiting that. I'm going to pick up really
• 36:12
  where where I left off with Pip and Jade and just say the fact
• 36:17
  that all the characters are so well defined that we're still
• 36:22
  here discussing that the fact that Janet could have been the
• 36:25
  murderer, you know any it's so well set up that any of the
• 36:31
  characters could have been the one behind it and then it turns
• 36:35
  out they're all behind it. But that's brilliant because
• 36:38
  they've played with all the archetypes.
• 36:40
  And so you've we've got a really well defined set of supporting
• 36:44
  characters here. We've got three scientists with
• 36:47
  three different perspectives. We've got members of the crew
• 36:50
  who could be behind it. We've got disgruntled aliens
• 36:55
  whose planet has been mined to death.
• 36:58
  We've got a harmless old man. You know, we've got all the
• 37:01
  archetypes that you need and you see them killed off 1 by 1 until
• 37:05
  you're left with the only two possibilities that it might be.
• 37:10
  And Janet still survives. So the fact that we're still
• 37:12
  talking about Janet all these years later and still think she
• 37:16
  could have done it because there's enough wriggle room
• 37:20
  within the story to suggest that maybe she was behind it.
• 37:24
  I think that's that's excellent plotting.
• 37:26
  And they're also well played as well and beautifully cast.
• 37:31
  So they've become really distinct and they look distinct
• 37:34
  as well. So yeah, I think just the cast,
• 37:38
  the wider cast of characters is so good in this story.
• 37:42
  I really like that. My second one, I think a Doctor
• 37:48
  Who story can make or break with how it looks.
• 37:53
  You know, if you are not, if you're not convinced by the
• 37:58
  setting, you can have a bit of a hard job getting into the story.
• 38:02
  I know some people have that issue with like the Sun Makers
• 38:04
  and stories like that, and we've laughed at the, you know, the
• 38:09
  golden centre furniture and the enormous air ducts and things
• 38:14
  like that. But I am convinced that they're
• 38:16
  on a spaceship. You know, I like the big sort of
• 38:19
  cavernous hold set and the hydroponic centre, the cramped
• 38:24
  corridors and quarters that sort of luxurious.
• 38:28
  It's supposed to be luxurious, spacious, you know, what's the
• 38:32
  set called? The Lounge.
• 38:34
  Yeah. I don't know.
• 38:35
  I just think this is down to Chris Clough again and the
• 38:38
  designer that they, they create a genuinely convincing space
• 38:43
  within those BBC studios for the story to play out in.
• 38:47
  And it does feel it's like murder ship, isn't it?
• 38:52
  You know, between the Vervoids killing everybody and and Dolan
• 38:56
  going around murdering the rest, you know it is.
• 38:59
  It is a genuinely compelling setting.
• 39:05
  My next thing is going to be Don Babbage, the lighting director,
• 39:10
  because as Simon points out, you know, no one turns the lights
• 39:14
  down in the 80s except on Babbage, who realizes, you know,
• 39:18
  this story is going to be work so much better when it's, it's
• 39:23
  not pitch black, but it's, it's orange and red and yellow in,
• 39:29
  you know, in the hydroponic sphere.
• 39:31
  But then when you get into the the lounge that is brightly lit
• 39:36
  so you can see the whites and the pinks.
• 39:38
  And then you've got the bridge itself, which is all black and
• 39:41
  white and grey and that is lit superbly as well.
• 39:44
  So like I say, this is a guy that goes on and does a lot of
• 39:48
  Red Dwarf, which is also, you know, really atmospheric and has
• 39:52
  that same sort of, you know, rundown feel to it in in those
• 39:58
  bits. So I think this is a great bit
• 40:01
  of work for Don Babbage. OK, I'm going to say Colin
• 40:07
  Baker. Oh shit, that was going to be
• 40:10
  my. Story, Joe.
• 40:11
  Actually, no. Maybe I will leave you to that
• 40:14
  Colin Baker, because I know how important he is to you.
• 40:16
  So spoilers there, we can. So I'll come up.
• 40:22
  I'm going to say, actually, I'm going to say Malcolm Clark
• 40:25
  because I know I highlighted him in the but I just want to sort
• 40:29
  of say that this is the end of the radiophonic workshop era of
• 40:35
  music for Doctor Who. And it goes out on a on a little
• 40:39
  bit of a high. I think it's a nice, a really
• 40:41
  nice score. He he punctuates the action
• 40:44
  nicely. He's got those little fanfares
• 40:46
  that show you where you are through the story.
• 40:49
  He's got little comedy fanfares for when Colin's pulling a face
• 40:52
  and things like that. But there's always a sense he he
• 40:56
  also underscores the jeopardy. There's that weird sort of not
• 41:01
  quite music, but not quite, but also quite music for the
• 41:07
  Vervoids, which is kind of eerie and weird and sort of knocking
• 41:10
  sounds and, and things like that.
• 41:13
  So he's not lost his inventive streak, but he's learnt finally,
• 41:17
  finally learnt to rein it in and give you something that's
• 41:20
  actually listenable, which you can't say he always did.
• 41:24
  So I think the sort of radiophonic workshop music era
• 41:27
  goes out on a bit of a high here.
• 41:29
  It's the last one, it's the only one they do this year.
• 41:32
  And then we're into the the independent composers coming in
• 41:36
  after this. So yeah, it's the last time I
• 41:40
  think we get the BBC Radiophonic workshop thing in the titles as
• 41:44
  well, sort of under Dick Mills's name.
• 41:46
  So it's yeah, it's just a nice, nice little coda and something
• 41:50
  that's worth worth remarking on. They've.
• 41:54
  You know since the leisure high if they truly have delivered
• 41:57
  some of the most distinctive Doctor Who music.
• 42:00
  Not always perfect, but. No.
• 42:02
  Most memorable? Yeah.
• 42:05
  And there are lots of things you could hum, and you have.
• 42:12
  Surprise, surprise, it's Colin here.
• 42:17
  Can you zoom into Joe's face? I don't think this is the the
• 42:23
  best sick Doctor story. I think it's my favorite Colin
• 42:28
  Baker story, though, by a country mile.
• 42:31
  And like I said at the start, pointing forward, this should
• 42:35
  have been like the the if he'd started here, just imagine how
• 42:40
  different this era would be. He just gets to be front and
• 42:44
  centre and heroic and charming and funny and witty and
• 42:48
  intelligent and alien. You know, empathetic, a great
• 42:54
  relationship with his companion, genuine history with the guest
• 42:58
  characters and ingenious way of defeating the villains.
• 43:02
  Like, they just call him Nick Pip and Jane Baker just know how
• 43:08
  to make Colin look good because they love him.
• 43:12
  They. They just want him to look
• 43:13
  great. And yeah, he just shines in
• 43:16
  this. Yeah, I could just watch this.
• 43:18
  There are 1,000,000 reasons I love this story.
• 43:20
  I could just watch it for Colin, I think.
• 43:23
  Yeah, this is the material he deserved.
• 43:26
  And I'm going to add to that Colin in the trial as well,
• 43:29
  which we'll have talked about. But, yeah, just to re highlight,
• 43:33
  you know, how different he is, not just in terms of swagger or
• 43:38
  anything, but, you know, he is playing, you know, essentially
• 43:41
  the past and future versions of himself.
• 43:43
  But, you know, he's also playing that downbeat, that battered Dr.
• 43:49
  grieving Dr. Yeah, Yeah. But the one that's really up
• 43:53
  against the ropes of things, you know, this is this is my trump
• 43:56
  card. This is going to be my, you
• 43:58
  know, way out of this trial, which actually turns out not to
• 44:03
  be. But, you know, it's all those
• 44:05
  trial scenes, him against Jason. It's again really dialed down
• 44:10
  and you know you agree with everything you see.
• 44:13
  I just need it right a bit more. Appropriately, I think his best
• 44:17
  trial scenes come in the climax. Yeah, absolutely.
• 44:21
  We've got some, we've got some amazing stuff to come.
• 44:25
  Oh yes. If trial of a Time Lord is Colin
• 44:31
  Baker on trial as the Doctor? They got the verdict so wrong
• 44:38
  because he they did himself this year in so many varied and
• 44:42
  spectacular ways. But we will get there in in the
• 44:45
  ultimate. Fest.
• 44:47
  Wow. So yeah, we're three courses of
• 44:50
  the way through. We're off to the ultimate foe
• 44:53
  next. Outrageous in saying that Terror
• 44:57
  of the Vervoids is one of the most entertaining stories in,
• 45:02
  I'd say in light the last in the 80s.
• 45:07
  It is one that really sticks out to me as just being spectacular
• 45:11
  entertainment. It's it's weird, isn't it?
• 45:14
  It comes at such an interesting time in Doctor Who and, you
• 45:19
  know, suddenly the series is beginning to find its sense of
• 45:24
  fun again, which has often been missing.
• 45:28
  And it's not that it's not taking itself seriously, it's
• 45:31
  taking itself absolutely seriously.
• 45:33
  But it's also remembering that the viewers want to watch
• 45:36
  something that's that's fun and entertaining.
• 45:40
  And yeah, it is colourful and bright and.
• 45:45
  Worth coming back forth? Yeah, exactly.
• 45:48
  And it's not dour and it's not soldiers running around.
• 45:52
  I've, I've said this when we did time in the Rani Jo, that it was
• 45:55
  time in the rally where the colour bursts back into Doctor
• 45:58
  Who. But this is the first
• 45:59
  glimmerings where the, where the sun's just coming out from
• 46:02
  behind the clouds a bit and they're relaxing.
• 46:05
  So it really is sort of pointing to where we're going next.
• 46:09
  It's always like a giant finger up at Eric.
• 46:12
  Yeah, see, you can have a pile of bodies and it can be really
• 46:15
  fun. Exactly.
• 46:17
  And this is the tone that Doctor Who has been missing, that it's
• 46:20
  gone too far in One Direction and now it needs to swing back a
• 46:25
  little bit and find its sense of what Doctor Who is.
• 46:30
  And you know me, Doctor Who, being fun and and witty and and
• 46:37
  interesting, all of those things, and funny, but also
• 46:41
  exciting and difficult and things like that.
• 46:45
  We've got all of that here. The tone is that is is all is
• 46:49
  actually sort of well matched with the with the writing, but
• 46:54
  the some of the images on the screen are quite disturbing.
• 46:57
  So the half half creature makeup, the the compost heap is
• 47:02
  actually quite disturbing, but it's done in a gentle kind of
• 47:05
  way. So it's just scary enough for
• 47:08
  the children, but it's not faces melting.
• 47:11
  I can never forget that kids are watching.
• 47:13
  No, never, never, never. I will say one very last thing.
• 47:17
  That is, you know, we talk a lot of Doctor Who, the three of us,
• 47:21
  and our opinions evolve and change on things all the time.
• 47:26
  This is one of those very rare occasions where my opinion has
• 47:29
  never, ever changed. I loved it when I first saw it
• 47:33
  and every subsequent watch of it.
• 47:36
  I love it. Well, maybe just a little bit
• 47:38
  more, you know, But I thought, I can't imagine it ever changing.
• 47:41
  It was always the bit of the trial that I went back to, so
• 47:46
  right from 1986 onwards I bought if I want to watch Colin what
• 47:50
  was attacking Cybermen. But I'd actually really prefer
• 47:53
  to watch Terror of the Vervoids and maybe Part 13.
• 47:58
  Well, boys, I mean, who do you imagine the ultimate foe is
• 48:02
  going to be? Oh.
• 48:06
  You are goodnight. Imagine who it might be.
• 48:09
  I've been watching this and I've been enjoying myself in bed.
• 48:14
  Sleep. Oh, it's Janet, isn't it?
• 48:19
  I'll cut it in the head. Turned up on the screen.