Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / The Search and the Silence | Besalynn James, Lummi Nation / Bellingham, WA

Transcript

The Search and the Silence | Besalynn James, Lummi Nation / Bellingham, WA · PNW Haunts & Homicides

0:00
Speaker 1: Bess left behind everything that mattered to her daily life.
0:04
Speaker 1: Her three dogs, her belongings, and most strikingly, items that
0:09
Speaker 1: contradicted Bowman's own account of the night she went missing.
0:14
Speaker 1: Bowman described her as wearing a black jacket and white
0:17
Speaker 1: tennis shoes. When her sister went to the trailer to
0:21
Speaker 1: feed the dogs, she found those exact clothing items still inside.
0:26
Speaker 1: What is the explanation for that? Surely you're not going
0:29
Speaker 1: to tell me She left without those things, so what,
0:32
Speaker 1: she's walking around without shoes or a jacket? In 20-degree weather? Yeah.
0:36
Speaker 1: At 2 a.m.? Hi, Cassie. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, creepy people. Hello!
0:47
Speaker 1: I like how we just both kind of trailed there
0:50
Speaker 1: at the end. That was fun. We like to make
0:52
Speaker 1: it different, change it up for you guys. This is
0:54
Speaker 1: P & W Haunts and Homicides. Where we chat about
0:58
Speaker 1: true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky, creepy, and
1:05
Speaker 1: whatever else we want, because we can. Maybe slightly murdery. Yes. Well,
1:10
Speaker 1: I feel like that's covered in the true crime, but
1:12
Speaker 1: you know.
1:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:13
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the Pacific Northwest.
1:17
Speaker 1: Or the PNW. If you're nasty. If thou art nasty.
1:23
Speaker 1: If thou art nasty. I like it. I like it.
1:26
Speaker 1: I don't know, it just came to me. Yeah. We
1:29
Speaker 1: also do a little tarot reading at the end of
1:31
Speaker 1: every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into
1:34
Speaker 1: our topic.
1:36
Speaker 2: And Caitlin set up a beautiful altar with her new
1:40
Speaker 2: blood crystal.
1:41
Speaker 1: What's it called? It's a carnelian. Oh, yes. It's beautiful.
1:47
Speaker 1: It's a carnelian agate and it has like exposed drussy.
1:52
Speaker 1: In there, and it is so pretty. So pretty.
1:56
Speaker 2: And you got it on the Blood Moon Day, right?
1:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the eclipse with the red moon.
2:01
Speaker 2: Right.
2:02
Speaker 1: So pretty. And now I have a, I can still
2:05
Speaker 1: smell that candle. It smells so good. Oh, what is it?
2:11
Speaker 1: It's a Midnight Margarita's Ocean Rose and Margarita candle. Fuck.
2:20
Speaker 1: It's coming soon. It's time. That's how I feel. Honestly.
2:28
Speaker 1: All right.
2:29
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like that's about the happiest this episode
2:32
Speaker 2: is going to be because it's Caitlin's.
2:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I love it. Yeah. Thanks for leading with that.
2:40
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Perfect. And I don't have a lot of
2:44
Speaker 1: them in this case, but I'm feeling, as I look
2:47
Speaker 1: at my first paragraph, I'm feeling the weight of the
2:51
Speaker 1: couple of pronunciations that I have to do here. Oh, okay.
2:54
Speaker 1: So just, you know, send me good vibes if you would.
2:57
Speaker 1: The Lummi Nation is a federally recognized, self-governing tribe whose
3:02
Speaker 1: reservation sits on the shores of the Salish Sea in
3:08
Speaker 1: Whatcom County, Washington, just south of Bellingham, and a short
3:12
Speaker 1: drive from the Canadian border. I cannot believe I said
3:17
Speaker 1: sits on the shores of the Salish Sea in one take.
3:22
Speaker 1: Sally sells she-shells. I couldn't do it. I wasn't even
3:28
Speaker 1: looking at that. That was an unintentional tongue twister on
3:34
Speaker 1: top of the pronunciations. So, uh, Before I break my
3:39
Speaker 1: arm patting myself on the back, I guess I'll continue,
3:42
Speaker 1: but I'm so proud. Keep the vibe going. Yeah. The
3:47
Speaker 1: tribe's traditional territory spans Washington's northern coast, the San Juan Islands,
3:54
Speaker 1: as well as southern British Columbia. The Lummi people, pronounced,
3:59
Speaker 1: hopefully the phonetic key in the YouTube videos that I watched,
4:04
Speaker 1: don't fail me now, it's Lakshmish. And there's sort of
4:09
Speaker 1: like a back of your throat kind of a click.
4:12
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
4:13
Speaker 1: That's hard. It is. And that's as good as it's
4:16
Speaker 1: going to get for me. I think pretty fly for
4:19
Speaker 1: a white guy, you know? Yeah. It means people of
4:24
Speaker 1: the sea. So the Lummi people, people of the sea,
4:29
Speaker 1: have lived in this region for thousands of years. And
4:33
Speaker 1: the reservation today is a tight-knit community of farms, modest homes,
4:38
Speaker 1: fishing operations, tribal institutions, all bordered by Bellingham Bay and
4:44
Speaker 1: the rural roads of South Whatcom County. The Lummi Reservation
4:49
Speaker 1: was established in 1855 through the Treaty of Point Elliott,
4:55
Speaker 1: which was signed with the U.S. government. Boo. Boo. Are
5:01
Speaker 1: we booing the U.S. government or the treaty?
5:03
Speaker 2: Okay.
5:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, a little bit of both, but mostly
5:06
Speaker 1: the government. What's the treaty like? It's, as treaties with
5:11
Speaker 1: Native tribes have historically, well, we'll, I will get to that. Okay. Yeah.
5:16
Speaker 1: The reservation itself is well over 20,000 acres between the
5:21
Speaker 1: combined upland, landmass, and marine tideland territories, though in truth,
5:27
Speaker 1: of course, it's sadly a very small fraction of the
5:31
Speaker 1: tribe's original territory. Yeah. Yeah. So now you see why
5:35
Speaker 1: I would boo the treaty. Right, that's right. Just in principle,
5:39
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know? You know, they really, the
5:42
Speaker 1: name treaty, it sounds like it should be a treat.
5:45
Speaker 1: You want a treat, yeah.
5:46
Speaker 2: Right?
5:47
Speaker 1: Guess who knows that word now? Whoopsie. Over time, due
5:52
Speaker 1: to various factors such as land loss through treaties, colonization,
6:00
Speaker 1: and economic development pressures, more colonization, the Lummi have lost
6:08
Speaker 1: access to many of their traditional lands. The home of
6:12
Speaker 1: Bezalyn James on Balch Road runs through a quiet residential
6:17
Speaker 1: stretch of the reservation. The kind of place where neighbors
6:21
Speaker 1: know and look out for each other. It's a community
6:25
Speaker 1: that has carried profound and disproportionate loss. Just for like
6:31
Speaker 1: casually the last... I would say three, four hundred years
6:35
Speaker 1: or so. Aww. Since we treated them. Yeah, since we
6:39
Speaker 1: treated them. Since we trickied them. Yeah. Trick or treat. Yikes.
6:44
Speaker 1: A roadside memorial not far from Bezalyn's home honors dozens
6:49
Speaker 1: of Lummi women and men who have disappeared or been
6:52
Speaker 1: lost to violence in the community, with names dating back
6:56
Speaker 1: to the 1950s. Wow. In January 2025... That list grew
7:03
Speaker 1: by one. It might have grown by more, but we're
7:06
Speaker 1: talking about the one today, just to be fair. According
7:10
Speaker 1: to the Lummi Victims of Crime Program, approximately five tribal
7:15
Speaker 1: members are reported missing every year. That's like... A lot.
7:20
Speaker 1: It's a lot. In a small community. Yes.
7:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:23
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, in like the city of Portland, I don't,
7:26
Speaker 1: I'm sure we have five people go missing every year.
7:29
Speaker 1: But think about when it's like in a smaller community
7:33
Speaker 1: that just feels so concentrated. It really does. Yeah. It's, oh,
7:38
Speaker 1: I just think about like five. Five.
7:41
Speaker 2: Like imagine five people from like your neighborhood disappearing every year.
7:46
Speaker 1: Just that's what it feels like. Bye. Oh. The LVOC
7:50
Speaker 1: provides confidential crisis intervention, emergency shelter, and advocates for victims
7:57
Speaker 1: of numerous types of abuse that may impact tribal members
8:01
Speaker 1: at any and every stage of life. Bessalyn Mary James
8:06
Speaker 1: was born October 7, 1962, and grew up in and
8:12
Speaker 1: around the Lummi Nation Reservation. She was one of 11
8:16
Speaker 1: children raised on a farm along the Red River. surrounded
8:20
Speaker 1: by horses roaming the beautiful landscape. And that is my
8:25
Speaker 1: actual childhood dream. Aw, ponies! Yeah. Her sisters Madeline and
8:31
Speaker 1: Rosalyn remember a childhood defined by that land and those animals.
8:37
Speaker 1: Bess would get up every morning before me. Every morning,
8:41
Speaker 1: she'd get up before me and get on the horse.
8:44
Speaker 1: Dad would say, whoever's up first can have the horse.
8:48
Speaker 1: And I'd say, but Bess gets it every time. Get
8:53
Speaker 1: up earlier. Yeah, get up earlier, girl. Early bird gets
8:56
Speaker 1: the horse. Yeah, and or the worm. You don't want
9:01
Speaker 1: the worm. Nah, probably not. That love of horses never
9:04
Speaker 1: left her, according to reporting on the case in the
9:07
Speaker 1: Cascadia Daily. As an adult, Bessalyn, known to family and
9:12
Speaker 1: community as Bessie or Bess, continued to ride, sometimes along
9:18
Speaker 1: the river. sometimes into town, stopping to visit her grandchildren
9:23
Speaker 1: when her son, Ron, was out fishing. Lummi Indian Business
9:27
Speaker 1: Council member Rosalie Revy Jacobs remembered her vividly. She just
9:34
Speaker 1: marched to her own drum. She rode a horse down
9:38
Speaker 1: Haxton Way, and you would just see her with a
9:40
Speaker 1: big smile on her face. Aww. I love that.
9:44
Speaker 2: That you just like pop on your horse and go
9:46
Speaker 2: to town and everyone knows you.
9:48
Speaker 1: Saddle up my horse and I ride into the city.
9:52
Speaker 1: Make a lot of noise because the girls, they are
9:54
Speaker 1: so pretty. Anyways. Riding up and down. Wait, what? Did
10:00
Speaker 1: they say the street name? Haxton Way. Riding up and
10:04
Speaker 1: down Haxton Way. By January 2025, Bessalyn was 62 years old,
10:13
Speaker 1: a mother, grandmother, sister, and respected elder within the Lummi Nation.
10:18
Speaker 1: a status that carries particular weight in the community. There's
10:22
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for elders. Yes, definitely. It's a
10:26
Speaker 1: pretty big hit when it's an elder in the community,
10:30
Speaker 1: Lummi police officer Jay Martin said after her disappearance. She
10:35
Speaker 1: lived on Balch Road with her boyfriend. It doesn't sound
10:40
Speaker 1: like that was actually technically maybe his primary residence. I
10:44
Speaker 1: don't know that he was getting his mail there, but
10:46
Speaker 1: he was there enough that a lot of source material
10:50
Speaker 1: said like their house or it. So it was a
10:53
Speaker 1: little bit muddy on that. But my boyfriends be like that. Yeah.
10:58
Speaker 1: Boyfriends be like that sometimes. If you like it, put
11:01
Speaker 1: a ring on it, you know? Seriously. Yeah. I mean,
11:04
Speaker 1: no pressure to live your best life unless she didn't
11:07
Speaker 1: want that. Right. That's totally exactly. Yeah. She didn't drive.
11:12
Speaker 1: And by every account from those who knew her, she
11:15
Speaker 1: never went anywhere without her three dogs. Oh, did she
11:19
Speaker 1: take them on the horse with her though? That's what
11:22
Speaker 1: I wondered. Immediately, I was like, how do you horseback
11:26
Speaker 1: ride with a dog asking for a friend? She got
11:30
Speaker 1: one on the backpack, one on the front pack. And
11:34
Speaker 1: the other just trots beside. He's got a good dog.
11:37
Speaker 1: He's got his own saddle. Yeah. Her sisters describe her
11:41
Speaker 1: as a homebody whose house typically showed it. Dog hair, dust,
11:46
Speaker 1: belongings left out on end tables and the couch. To
11:51
Speaker 1: which I say, same, girl. Same. Literally, this is my
11:56
Speaker 1: dream life. I don't. Drive a car. I ride a horse.
12:01
Speaker 1: I have three dogs. And you're a homebody. Yeah. Yeah.
12:06
Speaker 1: I was like, end of sentence. But then that last
12:08
Speaker 1: part was pretty important.
12:09
Speaker 2: Minus the boyfriend not putting a ring on it part
12:13
Speaker 2: because your boyfriend put a ring on it and now
12:15
Speaker 2: he's your husband.
12:16
Speaker 1: Right. I was like, now I have to call him
12:18
Speaker 1: something different. Sometimes I still call him boyfriend. It's cute. Yeah.
12:22
Speaker 1: It's a term of endearment. The last confirmed sighting of Bess,
12:28
Speaker 1: by anyone other than Terry Bowman, was at 1.16 p.m.
12:32
Speaker 1: on January 20th of 2025 at her home on the reservation.
12:39
Speaker 1: According to Bowman, Bess left the residence at approximately 2 a.m.
12:45
Speaker 1: on January 21st to go for a walk in temperatures
12:49
Speaker 1: in the 20 degrees range. Okay, that doesn't seem like
12:55
Speaker 1: maybe something... At 2 a.m. One would do. Okay, I'm
13:00
Speaker 1: glad you're having that reaction because literally everyone forever has
13:04
Speaker 1: and always will have that reaction to that particular detail. Yeah,
13:09
Speaker 1: that's not right. Some may write about that. She never returned.
13:14
Speaker 1: Council member Rosalie Revy Jacobs said plainly, It's suspicious. I
13:20
Speaker 1: don't know anybody who would leave at 2 a.m. on
13:22
Speaker 1: a walk. It just doesn't make any sense.
13:26
Speaker 2: I could see if like she was known for that,
13:28
Speaker 2: you know, like going on night walks or something. But
13:30
Speaker 2: it sounds like people know her pretty well and kind
13:32
Speaker 2: of like what she's up to.
13:34
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also, very cold. Yeah. Cold, an odd hour. It's
13:40
Speaker 1: not like an established behavior. And she wasn't on her horse.
13:44
Speaker 1: I know. Why would you ever walk anywhere again? I
13:49
Speaker 1: know I wouldn't. Bowman called Bess's sister, Rosalind, on January 25th,
13:56
Speaker 1: first to ask her to feed Bess's dogs. And only
14:00
Speaker 1: afterward did she later receive a separate call from the
14:05
Speaker 1: Lummi Nation Police Department informing her that her sister was
14:09
Speaker 1: officially missing. Who asked her to feed the dogs? The boyfriend. Huh. Huh. Yeah.
14:16
Speaker 2: So he like knew that she was going to be
14:19
Speaker 2: gone forever. For a minute or had been gone for
14:22
Speaker 2: a minute and was worried about the dogs and he
14:24
Speaker 2: couldn't feed them himself.
14:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a lot of questions. Okay. You involve
14:30
Speaker 1: horses and dogs and I am so invested. I want
14:34
Speaker 1: to interrogate this guy because honestly, I feel like you
14:39
Speaker 1: got a lot to answer for there personally. Sir. I
14:42
Speaker 1: thought you were going to say bub. I almost said bub.
14:45
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I was like, my brain stopped.
14:48
Speaker 1: Like I had a stroke and I just was rage.
14:51
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't even know what word
14:53
Speaker 1: is about to come out. A Lummi Police Daily Activity
14:58
Speaker 1: Log entry documents a missing person report at the 3200
15:04
Speaker 1: block of Balch Road on January 21st, 2025 at 6 p.m.
15:10
Speaker 1: Case number 25I00487. I'm giving the case number because that
15:19
Speaker 1: is very helpful to find it on the page if
15:22
Speaker 1: you care to go and see it. The date and
15:24
Speaker 1: time in the log don't match when Bess was last
15:27
Speaker 1: confirmed seen, 1.16pm the previous day, January 20th. And neither
15:34
Speaker 1: matches Bowman's own claim that she left the residence at
15:38
Speaker 1: 2 a.m. on January 21st. Nor do they match when
15:42
Speaker 1: Bowman actually filed the missing person report four days later
15:48
Speaker 1: on January 25th. So this really bothered me. And the
15:53
Speaker 1: amount of time that I spent trying to figure out
15:56
Speaker 1: why this log entry doesn't actually correlate with anything that
16:00
Speaker 1: made sense to me with the case... I could have
16:03
Speaker 1: had this done a whole day early. I'm in no
16:08
Speaker 1: way joking. Damn. And unfortunately now when you Google, the
16:13
Speaker 1: AI overview can sometimes be helpful and sometimes, as I found,
16:18
Speaker 1: it propagates problematic theories that while they could be true,
16:24
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's any factual basis for and
16:28
Speaker 1: some of them... I feel like I'm dancing around it,
16:32
Speaker 1: but some of the stuff that it spit out, I
16:34
Speaker 1: was like, that sounds a little... I don't want to
16:37
Speaker 1: sound dramatic here, but does that feel racist? I mean, probably. Yeah, probably.
16:43
Speaker 1: Probably a little bit. It just knows what it's been fed. Yeah.
16:46
Speaker 1: And it turns out people on the internet are racist.
16:49
Speaker 2: Weird.
16:50
Speaker 1: And I can't expound on that any further. Not all
16:53
Speaker 1: of them. Not you guys. Yeah. But... enough to where
16:57
Speaker 1: I feel like AI picks up on that. It sure does.
17:00
Speaker 1: It turns out. And here's the thing is some of
17:03
Speaker 1: them make a lot of sense, but I'm not going
17:06
Speaker 1: to really go into it fully because I just don't
17:10
Speaker 1: have enough information to know. Sounds plausible, but whatever the
17:16
Speaker 1: 6 p.m. January 21st timestamp reflects, it doesn't line up
17:21
Speaker 1: with anything else in the public record. And I As
17:25
Speaker 1: I said, I tried looking into a number of possible explanations,
17:28
Speaker 1: but wasn't able to find anything definitive. There are plausible interpretations.
17:35
Speaker 1: The log field, that specific date-time field, could reflect when
17:40
Speaker 1: Bess was believed to have gone missing based on information
17:43
Speaker 1: that the Lummi Police Department has, rather than what the
17:48
Speaker 1: report states, like when that was filed. Or it could
17:53
Speaker 1: be an internal administrative timestamp. Don't know what that would be.
17:58
Speaker 1: Could be a clerical error. There was a lot of
18:02
Speaker 1: different information that I just, it really made me mad
18:08
Speaker 1: because I just could see where some of it, I
18:11
Speaker 1: thought that makes sense. And then I was like, but
18:13
Speaker 1: I can't state that as fact. And I like to
18:17
Speaker 1: state facts. Yeah. I don't envy your job at all. Yeah.
18:22
Speaker 1: I just, like, so many things, like, potentially made sense,
18:26
Speaker 1: but I'm talking about the potential explanations so much more
18:29
Speaker 1: broad strokes than what I was finding because I just,
18:33
Speaker 1: I don't feel comfortable aligning myself with a particular theory.
18:38
Speaker 1: None of them fully account for the mismatch with every
18:41
Speaker 1: other date and time in the public record, and none
18:44
Speaker 1: of them have been confirmed by the Lummi Police Department.
18:48
Speaker 1: I would be really interested to see if anybody ever
18:53
Speaker 1: followed up and asked like what their official response would be.
18:57
Speaker 1: I don't know. I could literally talk about this for
18:59
Speaker 1: the rest of the day. Go for it. I know.
19:03
Speaker 1: She's like, okay, we can have another two-parter. Bess left
19:10
Speaker 1: behind everything that mattered to her daily life. Her three dogs,
19:15
Speaker 1: her belongings, and most strikingly, Items that contradicted Bowman's own
19:21
Speaker 1: account of the night she went missing, like specifically what
19:26
Speaker 1: she was wearing. Oh, okay. Bowman described her as wearing
19:30
Speaker 1: a black jacket and white tennis shoes. When her sister
19:34
Speaker 1: went to the trailer to feed the dogs, she found
19:37
Speaker 1: those exact clothing items still inside. Rosalind told reporters she
19:43
Speaker 1: believes Bess was actually wearing a different native style jacket
19:48
Speaker 1: that she had just purchased at Costco. Not the items
19:52
Speaker 1: Bowman described to police. And clearly because they were literally
19:58
Speaker 1: still there. So what is the explanation for that? Surely
20:01
Speaker 1: you're not going to tell me that she left without
20:05
Speaker 1: those things. So what, she's walking around without shoes or
20:07
Speaker 1: a jacket? In 20 degree weather? Yeah.
20:10
Speaker 2: At 2 a.m.? I don't know if it's like a
20:14
Speaker 2: man thing or like, like, I don't know what she
20:16
Speaker 2: was wearing. I guess it was probably this. Like, he
20:19
Speaker 2: can't see that they're still right there or I don't know.
20:22
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very like that to me is
20:26
Speaker 1: I don't like it. It's weird. It's weird. The trailer
20:29
Speaker 1: itself was another problem. It was unusually clean. Oh, because
20:34
Speaker 1: you said she was kind of like, oh, it's like
20:37
Speaker 1: a lived-in. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. But it's
20:42
Speaker 1: like lived-in. A very lived-in.
20:44
Speaker 2: Yeah.
20:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's a good way to put it, honestly. Rosalind
20:48
Speaker 1: described her sister as a homebody whose home normally had dust,
20:52
Speaker 1: dog hair, and things scattered on the tables. And, you know,
20:56
Speaker 1: when she walked in that Saturday, she said it was
20:59
Speaker 1: definitely cleaned up. Like in a way that didn't really
21:02
Speaker 1: make sense. for her sister, like, not being there. It just,
21:08
Speaker 1: something about that. I feel like it's never a good
21:11
Speaker 1: sign if you go to check out somebody's car or
21:14
Speaker 1: their house and you can tell it was freshly vacuumed.
21:16
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:17
Speaker 1: Like they were expecting company, but they're not there. Yeah,
21:21
Speaker 1: that is kind of eerie in a way. In the
21:24
Speaker 1: weeks following her disappearance, family, friends, volunteers, and law enforcement
21:29
Speaker 1: searched the reservation and surrounding area extensively. but no trace
21:34
Speaker 1: of Bess was found. Then on January 29th, just over
21:38
Speaker 1: a week after she vanished, Lummi victims of crime posted
21:42
Speaker 1: an unusual notice. Due to updates in the active investigation
21:48
Speaker 1: of Bessel and James, search efforts have been postponed until
21:52
Speaker 1: future notice. Please continue to avoid any areas under investigation.
21:59
Speaker 1: You can help preserve the Balch Road radius by keeping
22:04
Speaker 1: pet dogs on a leash and by reporting any suspicious
22:08
Speaker 1: activity or tips to 911. So forensically, there was something
22:14
Speaker 1: presumably that they were hoping to preserve that they called off,
22:18
Speaker 1: you know, essentially volunteer search efforts. Huh. And there's been
22:23
Speaker 1: a lot of speculation around that. Like, yeah, that doesn't
22:27
Speaker 1: make sense to me at all. Well, I have my
22:32
Speaker 1: theories and sometimes I don't like to say kind of
22:36
Speaker 1: what I think based on what, you know, I'm reading
22:40
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I don't know if this is true.
22:42
Speaker 1: And I hate to just like kind of extrapolate on something.
22:46
Speaker 1: And I, you know, I don't have insider info. But
22:50
Speaker 1: to me... that kind of seems like forensically they had
22:55
Speaker 1: to have found something already that led them to believe
22:59
Speaker 1: that there was greater value in preserving the scene than
23:05
Speaker 1: continuing to search for her. Yeah, it would have to
23:08
Speaker 1: be something like pretty big, I would think. That's just
23:13
Speaker 1: my thought. But they didn't say what it was. Nope.
23:17
Speaker 1: Or if it was anything. Exactly. Okay. The notice asked
23:21
Speaker 1: the public to preserve a specific radius around Balch Road,
23:25
Speaker 1: basically her home in the surrounding area. The request that
23:29
Speaker 1: residents keep their dogs leashed points toward concern about the
23:33
Speaker 1: disturbance of physical evidence in the outdoor area, though this
23:38
Speaker 1: is important. No source has publicly stated that specifically. They've
23:44
Speaker 1: never confirmed that. But no source, like I said, they've
23:48
Speaker 1: never publicly confirmed what, if anything, was being preserved. So
23:52
Speaker 1: they don't specify what, they don't actually confirm that that
23:55
Speaker 1: is what they're doing, but connect the dots. Yeah. What
24:00
Speaker 1: specifically prompted the pause or what investigators found, if anything,
24:05
Speaker 1: has never been publicly explained. In the year and a
24:08
Speaker 1: half since, no outlet has ever returned to that question.
24:12
Speaker 1: Not that I could find.
24:14
Speaker 2: Huh.
24:15
Speaker 1: That silence isn't the exception. Not for cases like this one.
24:19
Speaker 1: It's the rule. I don't like that. No. And I
24:23
Speaker 1: will say that of a lot of cases that I
24:26
Speaker 1: have looked at to talk about, there's a lot more
24:31
Speaker 1: about Bess's case than I anticipated. I started looking at
24:36
Speaker 1: this thinking, I just don't know if this is like
24:40
Speaker 1: one that I have to kind of talk about as serious.
24:44
Speaker 1: Kind of of disappearances maybe in the area, but there's
24:47
Speaker 1: a lot more information than I thought there would be,
24:51
Speaker 1: which is really sad to say. Yeah. To anticipate that
24:55
Speaker 1: there won't be enough information for me to talk about
24:57
Speaker 1: this person, you know, for an hour. Right. They're missing. Like,
25:03
Speaker 1: there should be. There should be like a whole three-hour,
25:06
Speaker 1: you know, Odyssey-level documentary of information available. That's how it
25:13
Speaker 1: should be. And I mean, thankfully, there definitely was a
25:17
Speaker 1: lot of information, but... Just not on this part of it. Right. Yeah,
25:21
Speaker 1: definitely some key parts of the case that are... And again,
25:28
Speaker 1: you know, we say this a lot, but sometimes that's intentional.
25:31
Speaker 1: Investigators have to hold certain things back because that's going
25:35
Speaker 1: to be their only leverage in proving, oh, this person
25:40
Speaker 1: knows this, so they are the perp. Right. Things like that.
25:44
Speaker 1: I don't know. I do get that. It just makes
25:47
Speaker 1: things more. It's frustrating. That's sort of a separate issue
25:51
Speaker 1: from when there's a case that there's just not information about, period.
25:56
Speaker 1: Those are kind of separate issues in my mind. Sometimes
25:59
Speaker 1: you can have both where there's like almost no information
26:03
Speaker 1: and where they're saying we're holding information because it's an
26:08
Speaker 1: active investigation. I wish they would just say that. Like,
26:12
Speaker 1: why can't you just say that? And a lot of
26:13
Speaker 1: times they do. And that is kind of the thing.
26:15
Speaker 1: And it's implied with certain things where they're not specifying.
26:21
Speaker 1: It's like, well, it's an active investigation. This is all
26:24
Speaker 1: we can say. Yeah.
26:25
Speaker 2: But I think it's just hard for like us who aren't,
26:29
Speaker 2: we're not like her family or friends.
26:30
Speaker 1: We didn't know her. Yeah. And it's not like we,
26:34
Speaker 1: we need to know for like, selfish reasons.
26:38
Speaker 2: I just feel like because we want there to be
26:43
Speaker 2: like information on a missing woman. No, I mean, that's
26:46
Speaker 2: exactly what it is. And you want there to be
26:48
Speaker 2: enough information.
26:49
Speaker 1: Out there that hopefully like it jogs someone's memory or
26:54
Speaker 1: like it's enough that people connect with the case and
26:58
Speaker 1: it generates tips somehow, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah.
27:03
Speaker 2: It's not like we're just itching to know, like, oh,
27:05
Speaker 2: did they find, like, a bloody knife in the grass?
27:08
Speaker 1: No, I would actually prefer that that's not what they
27:11
Speaker 1: found and that's not the reason. If I'm being honest, like,
27:15
Speaker 1: it is about that, like, I hope that there's enough
27:18
Speaker 1: out there that it advances the case. Yeah, a thousand percent.
27:23
Speaker 1: Bess's disappearance is being investigated jointly by the Lummi Nation
27:27
Speaker 1: Police Department, the FBI's Seattle Field Office... the Whatcom County
27:32
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office, the Bellingham Police Department, along with other law
27:37
Speaker 1: enforcement partners. It reflects a genuinely complicated jurisdictional reality that
27:44
Speaker 1: affects nearly every case involving a missing or murdered person
27:48
Speaker 1: on tribal land in the United States. Washington is one
27:52
Speaker 1: of several states that assumed criminal jurisdiction over tribal lands
27:56
Speaker 1: under Public Law 280. a 1953 federal law passed without
28:03
Speaker 1: tribal consent. So I think you can guess how I feel.
28:07
Speaker 2: Right.
28:08
Speaker 1: In general, just checking the vibe.
28:11
Speaker 2: So they like give them their own land and space
28:14
Speaker 2: to have like their own laws and things, but then
28:17
Speaker 2: they're like, but wait a minute. Yeah.
28:20
Speaker 1: We don't want to get carried away. But the Lummi
28:24
Speaker 1: Nation's reservation falls under what's known as a partial PL
28:29
Speaker 1: 280 jurisdiction. So state authority there is restricted to eight
28:34
Speaker 1: specific subject areas. Compulsory school attendance, public assistance, domestic relations,
28:41
Speaker 1: mental illness, juvenile delinquency, adoption proceedings, dependent children, and the
28:47
Speaker 1: operation of motor vehicles on public roads. Wow. Okay. So
28:53
Speaker 1: most aspects of your day-to-day life, I would say. Yeah,
28:59
Speaker 1: I see the wheels turning. Okay. I see you trying
29:05
Speaker 1: to puzzle it out. I don't understand that. It is confusing. Okay.
29:19
Speaker 1: jurisdiction for major crimes like homicide was never handed off
29:23
Speaker 1: to the state of Washington, which is why the FBI
29:27
Speaker 1: is the lead investigating agency rather than Whatcom County or
29:31
Speaker 1: Washington state alone. So the state has jurisdiction over almost anything,
29:37
Speaker 1: but not this. And in a way, I don't think
29:41
Speaker 1: this is what they intended, but it kind of... I'm
29:45
Speaker 1: trying to see a silver lining in that the FBI
29:48
Speaker 1: is involved.
29:50
Speaker 2: It could be a good thing because, like, they have
29:52
Speaker 2: more resources and... In theory.
29:55
Speaker 1: Things to help, but, like, are they?
29:56
Speaker 2: Are they?
29:58
Speaker 1: Are they? This jurisdictional patchwork, patchwork is hardly ever what
30:04
Speaker 1: you want to hear. No. Tribal, federal, and state authority
30:08
Speaker 1: overlapping and sometimes leaving gaps depending on the nature of
30:12
Speaker 1: the crime, the tribal status of the victim, and the
30:15
Speaker 1: tribal status of any suspect is itself a documented contributing
30:20
Speaker 1: factor in the broader missing and murdered indigenous people crisis.
30:26
Speaker 1: Because nobody knows what the fuck is going on sometimes.
30:31
Speaker 1: cases can stall not from lack of effort by any
30:35
Speaker 1: single agency but sometimes from confusion about which agency has
30:40
Speaker 1: the authority to act which is super fucking frustrating that's
30:45
Speaker 1: a nightmare because like things just like follow through the
30:48
Speaker 1: cracks exactly made worse by under-resourced tribal police departments and
30:54
Speaker 1: the FBI's broad caseload across an enormous service territory all
31:01
Speaker 1: of our nation yeah so the fbi being involved can
31:07
Speaker 1: be good but also not they've got a little bit
31:11
Speaker 1: of a divided focus if you will yeah so what
31:16
Speaker 1: happened to bess investigators haven't publicly committed to a an
31:23
Speaker 1: answer not not a specific one Her family has. The
31:26
Speaker 1: Lummi Nation has. What no one can offer them yet
31:30
Speaker 1: is the resolution, a body to bury, a case to close,
31:34
Speaker 1: a person to hold accountable. So there are some theories
31:39
Speaker 1: about what's the party line, what's the official answer, what
31:43
Speaker 1: actually happened. The first one is, well, I mean, it's
31:48
Speaker 1: a very prominent issue on reservation territory, domestic violence and
31:54
Speaker 1: or the idea that there was direct involvement, some sort
31:58
Speaker 1: of foul play specifically by Bowman. I could see that
32:02
Speaker 1: as being like the very obvious theory. The most prominently
32:05
Speaker 1: aired theory in coverage of this case centers on Bowman himself,
32:10
Speaker 1: the contradictions in his account, the implausible 2 a.m. walk
32:15
Speaker 1: in freezing temperatures, the discrepancy in the clothing, the unusual
32:21
Speaker 1: cleanliness of the residence, which feels like a fucking slap
32:26
Speaker 1: in the face, but it's just that it looked so
32:30
Speaker 1: freshly cleaned compared to day to day. I'm not trying
32:33
Speaker 1: to say, I'm not actually calling her messy Bessie. The
32:38
Speaker 1: four day delay before finally reporting her missing. Yeah. All
32:43
Speaker 1: of that has led both family members and at least
32:46
Speaker 1: one tribal official to question his version of events publicly.
32:51
Speaker 1: He's getting some serious, like, T-Swift-level shade thrown his way.
32:56
Speaker 1: It makes sense. Yeah.
32:57
Speaker 2: Because I'm thinking about, like, if you decided to go
33:01
Speaker 2: on a walk at 2 a.m.
33:02
Speaker 1: In the freezing cold. For one, your husband wouldn't let you. But... Yeah.
33:07
Speaker 1: At least not alone. But, like, if you didn't come
33:10
Speaker 1: back after... Can you imagine Chris just, like, not reporting
33:14
Speaker 1: me missing for four days? For four days? No. I
33:18
Speaker 1: love how we said that in perfect unison. He has
33:21
Speaker 1: been interviewed both by tribal and federal investigators. And while
33:26
Speaker 1: he has not been cleared, he also hasn't been charged. Additionally,
33:31
Speaker 1: no public source has disclosed what physical evidence, if any,
33:36
Speaker 1: investigators have connecting him directly to her disappearance. The next
33:41
Speaker 1: theory is a third party. So basically just anyone other
33:45
Speaker 1: than Bowman. Beyond Bowman, no specific alternative suspect has been named,
33:52
Speaker 1: probably because Bess was the fucking boss and she was
33:57
Speaker 1: an awesome lady and they can't think of anybody else
34:00
Speaker 1: that would mean to do her harm. Right.
34:04
Speaker 2: It sounded like she was just so well-loved and known
34:08
Speaker 2: in their community.
34:09
Speaker 1: And just living her best life. So, I don't know.
34:12
Speaker 1: Could have been someone rolling through, but I don't know. However,
34:17
Speaker 1: the theory that Bess came to harm at the hands
34:19
Speaker 1: of a third party, it can't be ruled out entirely,
34:23
Speaker 1: but it does run against the pattern of data that
34:27
Speaker 1: shapes these types of cases nationally. Intimate partner violence is
34:32
Speaker 1: a major driver of homicide against Indigenous women. Indigenous women particularly,
34:38
Speaker 1: but like all women.
34:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.
34:41
Speaker 1: Nationally, spouses and acquaintances are the two largest categories of
34:46
Speaker 1: identified perpetrators in solved cases involving Indigenous women. We say
34:53
Speaker 1: it all the time, jokingly, but it's always the husband. Right.
34:58
Speaker 1: And in this case, Specifically, the person who was with
35:01
Speaker 1: Bess in the hours before she disappeared, who waited four
35:05
Speaker 1: days to report her missing, and whose account of what
35:09
Speaker 1: she was wearing didn't match what her sister later found
35:11
Speaker 1: in the trailer. is her boyfriend. And I'm never letting
35:14
Speaker 1: that go. No, I don't think you should. I feel
35:18
Speaker 1: like I've really harped on certain aspects of like the
35:22
Speaker 1: discrepancies and what he has said and like what the
35:26
Speaker 1: evidence that we factually know is confirmed. I'm like, sorry,
35:30
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it again. Say it again, man.
35:34
Speaker 2: I could see like if she really did go out
35:37
Speaker 2: at 2 a.m.
35:39
Speaker 1: And ran into someone shady, but like... It's just so unlikely. Like,
35:43
Speaker 1: you have to believe that she did that in the
35:45
Speaker 1: first place. Yeah. And I don't. Like, unless.
35:50
Speaker 2: The only thing I could think of is if, like,
35:52
Speaker 2: they got into a fight. And then maybe you would
35:57
Speaker 2: need to get away at 2 a.m.
35:58
Speaker 1: Technically, there was only one source of... that mentioned something
36:04
Speaker 1: about there potentially having been a fight between the two
36:08
Speaker 1: of them. But it was like such a throwaway comment
36:12
Speaker 1: and it wasn't backed up by any other agency or
36:17
Speaker 1: reporting that I was like, And.
36:20
Speaker 2: If you were the boyfriend and you had gotten in
36:22
Speaker 2: a fight and she left.
36:23
Speaker 1: Then you get the fuck out. It's my house. Yes, that.
36:28
Speaker 2: But like, wouldn't that be something you would make sure
36:31
Speaker 2: is no, like, hey, we got into a fight.
36:33
Speaker 1: She wanted space. So I waited.
36:37
Speaker 2: I thought she just had left me.
36:39
Speaker 1: And she's going to cool off. Literally.
36:41
Speaker 2: And then, OK, 20 degrees out for days. And she
36:44
Speaker 2: hasn't like that would make more sense to me.
36:47
Speaker 1: Yes. It sure would. But it doesn't sound like he
36:50
Speaker 1: has said this. Not that I could find. Not to
36:55
Speaker 1: give anyone tips, but. Right. No, but it's like, I mean,
37:00
Speaker 1: make it make sense is all we're saying. And it doesn't.
37:03
Speaker 1: So now you get the side eye. Yeah. Bombastic side eye.
37:09
Speaker 1: Substantiating this theory more fully would require public evidence that
37:14
Speaker 1: doesn't currently exist. I'm not saying this is definitively the
37:20
Speaker 1: last and only other theory, but it's the only other
37:22
Speaker 1: one that I'm going to really talk about. Voluntary disappearance.
37:27
Speaker 1: I feel like that obviously comes up a lot. You know,
37:30
Speaker 1: if she were a child, they'd say run away. Right.
37:34
Speaker 1: This theory is very difficult to sustain given what is known.
37:39
Speaker 1: Bess did not drive. Makes it a lot harder to disappear,
37:44
Speaker 1: especially in the middle of the night. She was described
37:48
Speaker 1: by family as a homebody. And in this instance, her
37:54
Speaker 1: three dogs were left behind, which her family members adamantly
37:58
Speaker 1: state she would never willingly do. I believe that. A
38:02
Speaker 1: thousand percent. If I ever leave my dogs behind, never
38:09
Speaker 1: stop looking for me because I didn't go willingly. Seriously. Listen,
38:14
Speaker 1: if she was just some shitty bitch who had a
38:16
Speaker 1: bunch of dogs that she didn't give a fuck about,
38:19
Speaker 1: that's not her. No. And even if she was a
38:23
Speaker 1: shitty dog owner, like, we still have to look for her. Yeah.
38:28
Speaker 1: I guess. In the roughly year and a half since
38:33
Speaker 1: her disappearance, she has had no confirmed contact with anyone
38:37
Speaker 1: in her life. Of her three dogs, two are now
38:41
Speaker 1: with family and friends. The third disappeared when she did. Oh.
38:48
Speaker 1: And I think there are a number of ways that
38:52
Speaker 1: you can extrapolate on that. I can't dwell on that
38:57
Speaker 1: because I will be ugly crying in 30 seconds or less. Oh.
39:04
Speaker 1: I'm going to ugly cry. I know. I'm just, yeah,
39:07
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it. Like something really wrong happened here.
39:13
Speaker 1: And like either the dog is hurt or it like
39:16
Speaker 1: went looking for her.
39:18
Speaker 2: I don't know.
39:19
Speaker 1: I don't, like none of the possible, none of the
39:24
Speaker 1: possibilities are great in my mind. Her family and the
39:29
Speaker 1: Lummi Nation. itself have publicly stated their belief that she
39:34
Speaker 1: is the victim of homicide. What's left is the theory
39:38
Speaker 1: the family, the community, and the tribal government have publicly
39:43
Speaker 1: landed on. That someone she knew, presumably intimately... caused her disappearance,
39:51
Speaker 1: and that person has never been charged. In late June 2025,
39:56
Speaker 1: the Lummi Nation actually posted a notice on Facebook stating
40:03
Speaker 1: very plainly that Bess is believed to be a victim
40:07
Speaker 1: of homicide. and asked the public to report any knowledge
40:12
Speaker 1: of human remains, or did somebody make what you thought
40:16
Speaker 1: might have been an off-color joke at a bar type
40:19
Speaker 1: of a thing? Like, you know, one of those crazy
40:22
Speaker 1: drunken confessions? While this notice wasn't an official announcement made
40:29
Speaker 1: by law enforcement specifically... The family believes that the investigators
40:36
Speaker 1: are no longer anticipating recovering Bess alive and that recovering
40:42
Speaker 1: her remains is now the primary goal. And I think
40:47
Speaker 1: the fact that they paused the search early on, that
40:51
Speaker 1: is what I kind of immediately thought. Yeah. They needed
40:56
Speaker 1: to preserve evidence because that is going to be what
40:59
Speaker 1: they used to nail someone to the wall for the crime.
41:03
Speaker 1: And they were like, it's not a ticking clock trying
41:06
Speaker 1: to save her life. It's about trying to preserve any
41:11
Speaker 1: chance that we have of justice. Bess's son, Ron Nolan, said,
41:17
Speaker 1: You have to read between the lines. They told me
41:20
Speaker 1: things after the search, and I could piece it together.
41:23
Speaker 1: They're looking for her body. It's a recovery. It's not
41:26
Speaker 1: a find. They're not going to find her alive. Her sister, Rosalyn,
41:32
Speaker 1: began keeping a desk calendar, the kind one might expect
41:36
Speaker 1: to find on a detective's desk. Logging her sister's last
41:41
Speaker 1: text messages, her last Facebook posts, her last known whereabouts,
41:46
Speaker 1: the days since she was reported missing, the meals delivered
41:51
Speaker 1: by well-wishers, the tips that came in. This calendar has
41:56
Speaker 1: it all. And in her words, it literally just became
42:01
Speaker 1: an outlet for the anger that she felt every day
42:04
Speaker 1: her sister remained missing. And I get it. On July 16th, 2025,
42:11
Speaker 1: the Lummi Nation Police Department publicly named Terry Bowman, Bess's
42:18
Speaker 1: boyfriend at the time of her disappearance, as a person
42:21
Speaker 1: of interest. Police Chief Jay Martin told King 5 that
42:26
Speaker 1: Bowman had been interviewed by both tribal police and the
42:30
Speaker 1: FBI and said investigators, quote, know where Bowman is and are, quote,
42:37
Speaker 1: putting pieces of the puzzle together. At the time, he
42:41
Speaker 1: was believed to be in Idaho. From what I understand,
42:45
Speaker 1: that is not a state that he specifically has ties to. Apparently,
42:50
Speaker 1: Bess did. Okay. I don't know if that means anything. Yeah.
42:54
Speaker 1: It's hard to say. But he left is the point,
42:58
Speaker 1: kind of. Kind of, that's the more important thing.
43:01
Speaker 2: Which I would understand if you were a person of
43:04
Speaker 2: interest and the town is looking at you a certain way.
43:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. You'd probably leave. It doesn't mean you're guilty, but.
43:11
Speaker 1: You can make an argument either way, right? Bess's sister, Rosalyn,
43:16
Speaker 1: learned Bowman had been publicly named while watching the news. Yes.
43:21
Speaker 1: Law enforcement had not contacted her directly about the development.
43:25
Speaker 1: And I know that sometimes this happens, but it feels
43:28
Speaker 1: really shitty. She said it was a total surprise. What
43:32
Speaker 1: if she hadn't been watching the news? How would she
43:34
Speaker 1: ever know?
43:35
Speaker 2: Yep.
43:35
Speaker 1: And this is someone that has been a part of
43:37
Speaker 1: their community, interacted with their family. I feel like for
43:41
Speaker 1: their own personal safety, they should maybe have an awareness
43:44
Speaker 1: about this. Yeah. Her sister, Madeline... Frustrated by the lack
43:49
Speaker 1: of action, told reporters, he's out living his life. I
43:53
Speaker 1: want him in jail so they can turn him upside
43:56
Speaker 1: down and talk to him and get some answers. As
43:59
Speaker 1: of the most recent reporting reviewed from January 2026, Bowman
44:04
Speaker 1: has never been charged in connection with her disappearance. Rosalyn
44:08
Speaker 1: has said she heard rumors that Bowman has actually been
44:12
Speaker 1: seen at the Silver Reef Casino, located... on the Lummi Reservation.
44:18
Speaker 1: That was in early January 2026, despite earlier reporting placing
44:23
Speaker 1: him in Idaho. So he's either like back or back
44:26
Speaker 1: and forth? Yeah, begs a lot of questions. I will
44:32
Speaker 1: let everyone noodle on that independently. Marking the first anniversary
44:39
Speaker 1: of her disappearance, on January 22nd, 2026, The FBI's Seattle
44:47
Speaker 1: field office released an updated missing person poster and announced
44:52
Speaker 1: a reward of up to $ 10, 000 for information leading to
44:56
Speaker 1: the arrest and conviction of those involved. Assistant Special Agent
45:00
Speaker 1: in Charge Gerald Birkin said, In Ms. James' case, Over
45:05
Speaker 1: the past year, law enforcement has conducted multiple investigative actions
45:11
Speaker 1: across several states to try to discover what happened and
45:15
Speaker 1: her whereabouts. We will continue to diligently investigate this case
45:20
Speaker 1: no matter how long it takes. On January 21st, 2026,
45:26
Speaker 1: the actual anniversary, approximately 50 people gathered on the Lemme
45:31
Speaker 1: Reservation in and marched along, I want to say, Quina Road.
45:36
Speaker 1: I might be wrong. That's not important. They were chanting,
45:40
Speaker 1: say her name. Oh. Bess's son, Ron, walked carrying a
45:46
Speaker 1: flag representing missing and murdered Indigenous women and people. And
45:51
Speaker 1: Bess's sister carried a flag bearing her sister's photo. Madeline did. Rosalyn...
45:58
Speaker 1: now 67, sat at a sign-in table surrounded by poster
46:02
Speaker 1: boards of her sister riding horses and with her grandchildren.
46:07
Speaker 1: We're basically flying by on a wing and a prayer,
46:10
Speaker 1: she said. Bessalyn James is one of at least 110
46:15
Speaker 1: missing Indigenous people in Washington state as of early 2026.
46:21
Speaker 1: According to the Washington State Patrol's Missing Indigenous Persons List,
46:27
Speaker 1: statewide Washington's homicide investigation tracking system reflects 115 unsolved homicides
46:35
Speaker 1: involving Indigenous victims. Advocates widely believe the true number of
46:41
Speaker 1: missing and murdered Indigenous people in Washington, as well as nationally,
46:47
Speaker 1: is undercounted due to systemic underreporting and racial misclassification in
46:53
Speaker 1: how cases are logged. Washington has actually become a national
46:58
Speaker 1: leader in responding to this crisis, even as cases like
47:02
Speaker 1: Bess's remain unsolved. In 2021, they joined several other states
47:07
Speaker 1: in establishing an MMIWP task force. That task force's recommendations
47:15
Speaker 1: led directly to two concrete tools— explicitly empowering investigations into
47:21
Speaker 1: missing persons and homicide cases involving Indigenous victims. First, the
47:27
Speaker 1: statewide Missing Indigenous Person Alert System launched in 2022. It's
47:34
Speaker 1: a dedicated emergency alert system basically modeled on Amber Alerts.
47:39
Speaker 1: And an alert was issued for Bess's own case in
47:43
Speaker 1: February of 2025. As of April 2026, The Missing Indigenous
47:50
Speaker 1: Persons Alert System has issued 220 alerts with 203 people recovered,
47:58
Speaker 1: 12 still missing, and five found deceased. Wow. But they
48:04
Speaker 1: found that many people? That's crazy. Yeah. We actually are
48:11
Speaker 1: set up. on our pod email to receive the alerts.
48:14
Speaker 1: And so they have an activate and a cancel. And
48:17
Speaker 1: we get flooded with them. There's so many that I
48:22
Speaker 1: used to sort them into a folder immediately so that
48:26
Speaker 1: I could come back to them. And now I let
48:29
Speaker 1: them kind of sit in there for a day or
48:32
Speaker 1: two at least to see if the cancel will come through.
48:37
Speaker 1: Because that happens a lot. I do like it. Like
48:40
Speaker 1: I like, That it's helping. Yeah. It's sad that it
48:45
Speaker 1: has to come through so often, but like... Yeah. Well,
48:49
Speaker 1: and it's sad that that is kind of... It feels
48:52
Speaker 1: like that's the only way that anything happens. Yeah. If
48:56
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Like, we have to have their own
48:58
Speaker 1: special alert system because otherwise, who knows what'll fucking happen. Yeah.
49:04
Speaker 1: And in 2023... Washington became the first state to establish
49:11
Speaker 1: an MMIWP cold case unit, a dedicated cold case unit.
49:17
Speaker 1: Washington State Representative Deborah Lankanoff, who sponsored the legislation creating
49:24
Speaker 1: the unit, put the human stakes plainly. Oh, God, I'm
49:27
Speaker 1: going to ugly cry. No, you're going to make me.
49:31
Speaker 1: I know. We have witnessed women who look like me, aunties,
49:37
Speaker 1: girls who look like me, grandmothers, go missing one after
49:41
Speaker 1: another with unresolved cases, unresolved detention from governing bodies. According
49:48
Speaker 1: to Lankanoff, the cold case unit has helped resolve dormant
49:52
Speaker 1: cases dating back 30 or 40 years. That's so great.
49:58
Speaker 1: It's so emotional, but like, so good. And we talked
50:03
Speaker 1: about a case that actually is cited that's more recent,
50:07
Speaker 1: and that's George David. His was like a 20, it
50:12
Speaker 1: was a 2016 case. He was found dead from blunt
50:15
Speaker 1: force trauma to the head inside a friend's apartment in
50:18
Speaker 1: Port Angeles. He had traveled there from Nia Bay before
50:24
Speaker 1: going on to visit family in British Columbia. That state
50:30
Speaker 1: level leadership sits within a broader federal framework as well.
50:35
Speaker 1: In 2020, Congress passed two significant pieces of legislation aimed
50:40
Speaker 1: at addressing the literal crisis. Savannah's Act and the Not
50:46
Speaker 1: Invisible Act. Together, they were intended to improve coordination among federal, state, tribal,
50:54
Speaker 1: and local law enforcement on Indigenous cases. And to increase
51:00
Speaker 1: data accuracy, because that's really important.
51:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
51:03
Speaker 1: Involving the cases, like we have to have accurate information.
51:07
Speaker 1: And that's why I really fell down the rabbit hole
51:09
Speaker 1: with that Lummi Police Department activity. log entry that didn't
51:16
Speaker 1: match anything. And there were so many different explanations. One
51:21
Speaker 1: thing that I read, and I couldn't find that there
51:23
Speaker 1: was actual, like, confirmation of this, was that, oh, tribal systems,
51:28
Speaker 1: they log things based on, you know, X, Y, Z,
51:33
Speaker 1: you know, or they, you know, sometimes they backdate or da-da-da-da-da.
51:38
Speaker 1: The FBI always goes off of X, Y, Z. I mean...
51:44
Speaker 1: It basically made it sound like, oh, tribal systems do
51:48
Speaker 1: this inferior thing. And the FBI and all of the
51:52
Speaker 1: other police, law enforcement, all of the other departments. They
51:56
Speaker 1: do this other far superior thing, the more betterer. And
52:01
Speaker 1: so that explains it because they're inadequate and they're inferior.
52:05
Speaker 1: And I was like, I could believe that they might
52:08
Speaker 1: have different systems. I could believe that they might not
52:13
Speaker 1: be identical in all of their practices. I don't like
52:16
Speaker 1: the way that this is framed.
52:18
Speaker 2: Yeah.
52:18
Speaker 1: And that's where it started to feel like, wait a second.
52:23
Speaker 1: Is this just like an AI overview? Because I was
52:27
Speaker 1: like not finding journalistic sources that explain this. And I'm like, wait.
52:36
Speaker 1: That's where it started to really feel racist. Seriously, though. Yeah.
52:42
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so number one, you can't prove
52:45
Speaker 1: that this is actually what happened or what the source
52:49
Speaker 1: of the discrepancy is. Number two, it really does sound like,
52:55
Speaker 1: you bad, me good. Yeah. Like, yuck.
53:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then it, like, it doesn't mean that it's
53:03
Speaker 2: wrong or a bad way if they do it a
53:05
Speaker 2: different way. Yeah.
53:07
Speaker 1: I still want it explained, like, how it's. I really
53:11
Speaker 1: do want an explanation. Yeah. Different doesn't mean bad, but
53:14
Speaker 1: I still want to know like how. No, I would
53:17
Speaker 1: like to understand the process, the systems, the reasoning, and
53:22
Speaker 1: maybe that would totally like take that off the table
53:26
Speaker 1: and wouldn't be this like interesting detail of the case
53:30
Speaker 1: at all. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Despite
53:35
Speaker 1: all of this institutional progress, Bess's case illustrates a persistent
53:40
Speaker 1: and well-documented failure point. As of spring 2025, her case
53:46
Speaker 1: had not been entered into NAMIS, the National Missing and
53:51
Speaker 1: Unidentified Person System, the federal government's centralized clearinghouse intended to
53:57
Speaker 1: help connect missing person cases with unidentified remains across jurisdictions nationwide.
54:06
Speaker 1: I feel like that's something pretty important. Pretty fucking important.
54:09
Speaker 2: Yeah.
54:10
Speaker 1: You know what? Cookie for you. Thank you.
54:12
Speaker 2: Yeah.
54:14
Speaker 1: She was, however, listed in the Washington State Patrol's own
54:18
Speaker 1: missing persons database, which is something. It's not enough for
54:23
Speaker 1: me personally, but a national public radio analysis cited in
54:28
Speaker 1: Cascadia Daily News found that 65% of Washington State's missing
54:35
Speaker 1: people were not listed in NamUs at all. 65%? 65%.
54:41
Speaker 1: Oh my God. And I'm given to understand that that
54:45
Speaker 1: is of the overall, like across racial divide, all of
54:51
Speaker 1: the missing people. Wow. And fewer than half of the
54:55
Speaker 1: missing indigenous people listed in the Washington State Patrol's own
54:59
Speaker 1: database as of January 2025 appeared in the federal system.
55:04
Speaker 1: I don't understand why they're not just listed. They're missing.
55:07
Speaker 1: They need to be matched with remains, possibly. I'm sure
55:14
Speaker 1: that someone would like to tell us that it's about
55:17
Speaker 1: under-resourced police departments. And maybe that's true in some cases.
55:24
Speaker 1: I don't care. Do better. Be better. I'm going to say, obviously,
55:30
Speaker 1: defunding the police wouldn't help with entering more of this
55:36
Speaker 1: data into these systems right but you understand that that's
55:41
Speaker 1: why people want to do that right oh they want
55:45
Speaker 1: to defund the police because they are not serving their
55:51
Speaker 1: communities in the way that we would perhaps like right
55:55
Speaker 1: in some cases you know And that's just a minor
56:00
Speaker 1: concern compared to, you know, just killing people in the streets.
56:04
Speaker 1: So as of today, she's now in NamUs. MP number 155641.
56:10
Speaker 1: The page states she has dark brown hair, brown eyes,
56:18
Speaker 1: as well as a scar on her right arm and
56:20
Speaker 1: a tattoo that reads, best. Oh, she got her own
56:25
Speaker 1: name tattooed. I don't know why. I don't know why.
56:27
Speaker 1: I just love that so much. She loved herself. And
56:32
Speaker 1: it's just B-E-S. Oh. What it doesn't quite capture is
56:37
Speaker 1: who she was. An accomplished beater who was nearly done
56:41
Speaker 1: making necklaces for each of her grandchildren. I hate you.
56:46
Speaker 1: I know. I was like, she beads too? She is me.
56:50
Speaker 1: And she has like unfinished... She had crafting to do, people.
56:59
Speaker 1: According to her daughter-in-law, Miranda Noland, she had almost all
57:04
Speaker 1: of them done, she said, and she was so excited
57:07
Speaker 1: because she was going to give them to them. I
57:09
Speaker 1: don't know why that makes me like so emotional. I mean,
57:14
Speaker 1: it's like the un.
57:17
Speaker 1: It's like this unfinished thing and that's like, I just
57:20
Speaker 1: feel like that's Kind of the theme, really, like with
57:24
Speaker 1: this case. The roadside memorial near Bessalyn's home on the
57:30
Speaker 1: reservation still honors dozens of Lummi women and men lost
57:35
Speaker 1: to violence and disappearance. Her name is now among them.
57:40
Speaker 1: Her daughter-in-law also said, we want justice for her because
57:44
Speaker 1: she is the one that is missing. She is the
57:47
Speaker 1: one who was cold. she is the one that's afraid.
57:52
Speaker 1: She is the one that doesn't know where she is.
57:56
Speaker 1: And that last part, she's the one that doesn't know
57:59
Speaker 1: where she is. Because I feel like, and I don't know, like,
58:04
Speaker 1: she didn't really expand on this, but like, assuming that
58:08
Speaker 1: she were just still missing and she were being held somewhere,
58:11
Speaker 1: like that, that last part of the statement would certainly
58:16
Speaker 1: make sense, right? Like, she doesn't know where she is. Like,
58:19
Speaker 1: she's being held. But if her fate is what her
58:25
Speaker 1: family and the tribal nation believes, I feel like that
58:30
Speaker 1: speaks to kind of like a spiritual confusion of like,
58:35
Speaker 1: she doesn't know where she is because this isn't how...
58:40
Speaker 1: this isn't how you're meant to go to the other side.
58:43
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm making more
58:45
Speaker 1: of that than what she meant.
58:46
Speaker 2: But I could see how it's like they lay people
58:50
Speaker 2: to rest and probably is, you know, very like ceremonial way.
58:55
Speaker 1: Burial traditions are very important amongst a lot of indigenous tribes.
59:00
Speaker 1: And I just like, I don't know. That just struck
59:02
Speaker 1: me as like, she doesn't know where she is because
59:05
Speaker 1: she's not buried in the place. You know what I mean?
59:08
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm making more
59:11
Speaker 1: of that than what, like I said, than what she intended.
59:13
Speaker 1: But that just immediately struck me. And I just was like,
59:17
Speaker 1: and she is the one who is cold. She literally
59:20
Speaker 1: went missing on a cold night. I just, it just
59:23
Speaker 1: got me in the feels. I'm going to use the
59:27
Speaker 1: dog tarot. Okay. Because she loved dogs. She loved dogs. Oh, God.
59:35
Speaker 1: I think she would like that. I think she would approve.
59:38
Speaker 2: I don't want to put words in Bess's mouth, but
59:40
Speaker 2: I really think, like, I'm confident she would approve of that.
59:43
Speaker 1: I think she would be on board. Yeah. I still
59:47
Speaker 1: will for always.
59:48
Speaker 2: I will for always love that she has her own
59:52
Speaker 2: name tattooed.
59:54
Speaker 1: I don't know why. It's like independent. I don't know.
59:58
Speaker 1: I am me. I love myself. This is who I am.
1:00:04
Speaker 1: You have to see the photos of her. She is just...
1:00:07
Speaker 1: She's so pretty. And it wouldn't matter. She could be
1:00:12
Speaker 1: the ugliest lady that ever lived. Right. But... It's heartbreaking
1:00:17
Speaker 1: when you see somebody that just like really does. I mean,
1:00:20
Speaker 1: it's so fucking stupid. But like when you see them
1:00:24
Speaker 1: in a photo and you can just feel like the
1:00:27
Speaker 1: radiating warmth, it's like she lit up every room. But
1:00:34
Speaker 1: like for real, though. But like for real, though. Some
1:00:37
Speaker 1: people actually do. Yeah. I'm just going to set it aside.
1:00:44
Speaker 1: It was literally the only card that didn't shuffle back in. Interesting.
1:00:48
Speaker 1: I'm going to just set it aside so that I...
1:00:50
Speaker 1: Just in case. Where do we feel like in the
1:00:55
Speaker 1: spread here? I mean, I'm feeling like B. Keyboard B, but... Okay.
1:01:02
Speaker 1: Are you feeling it? That's like in the direction of
1:01:05
Speaker 1: where I was thinking. I was definitely on like the
1:01:07
Speaker 1: left-hand side. I was like, even like a little further
1:01:11
Speaker 1: over because B is like right here. Do what you feel. Well,
1:01:14
Speaker 1: maybe we split the difference. I feel like the answer
1:01:18
Speaker 1: is a lot of times to split the difference. Okay,
1:01:22
Speaker 1: we drew this in reverse. Okay. Okay, I'm going to
1:01:25
Speaker 1: let you describe it.
1:01:26
Speaker 2: Okay, it is two of ones and it has a
1:01:29
Speaker 2: dog with like one of the inflatable dog collars around
1:01:33
Speaker 2: its neck.
1:01:34
Speaker 1: It's like a cone, but it's literally, it almost looks
1:01:38
Speaker 1: like they're wearing like one of those like Lifeguard rings.
1:01:41
Speaker 1: Like a life preserver ring. Could be. Yeah. They're not.
1:01:45
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not. They make those for dogs so
1:01:47
Speaker 1: that they don't have to wear cones. Yeah. Because we
1:01:49
Speaker 1: have one. So they don't itch themselves. Yeah.
1:01:52
Speaker 2: But it's got a stick in its mouth and then
1:01:54
Speaker 2: the owner is like holding out another stick to the dog.
1:01:58
Speaker 1: Because one stick is never enough. Two. Did you want
1:02:04
Speaker 1: me to read this? Two. I was thinking that like
1:02:06
Speaker 1: there was two dogs left. Yeah, I want you to
1:02:10
Speaker 1: read that. Okay.
1:02:12
Speaker 2: Two sticks are seemingly better than one, but you only
1:02:15
Speaker 2: have one set of jaws. This card is all about
1:02:18
Speaker 2: making difficult decisions. It's the fork in the road, or
1:02:22
Speaker 2: rather the fork in the stick. And the stick the
1:02:25
Speaker 2: owner is holding out does have a fork in it.
1:02:28
Speaker 1: Reversed. You have a.
1:02:30
Speaker 2: Stick firmly in your teeth. Why gamble on that other stick?
1:02:34
Speaker 2: It could be a better stick or not. You're stricken
1:02:37
Speaker 2: with choice paralysis. Decide what you want to do and
1:02:42
Speaker 2: make peace with it.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting. While you were reading that, I was
1:02:48
Speaker 1: listening and also skimming the reverse interpretation and I've already
1:02:55
Speaker 1: glommed on to some things.
1:02:57
Speaker 2: Okay, because yeah, this will be like the bigger book,
1:03:00
Speaker 2: the more expanded interpretation.
1:03:03
Speaker 1: Keywords are developing goals, involvement in a creative project, Taking
1:03:09
Speaker 1: Action and Choices. This card shows you taking action to
1:03:14
Speaker 1: accomplish something you feel passionately about, a creative project, a business,
1:03:19
Speaker 1: or an adventure. Finding missing people. Yeah, God willing. You
1:03:25
Speaker 1: may have to make a choice between two options or
1:03:28
Speaker 1: bring two factors together to achieve success. Okay. And I
1:03:36
Speaker 1: feel like I've used this word a hundred times today.
1:03:38
Speaker 1: I'm extrapolating, but I'm like this max of they're going
1:03:43
Speaker 1: to have to make a deal to get the information. Yeah,
1:03:47
Speaker 1: I could see that.
1:03:48
Speaker 2: It was reminding me of when they were searching and
1:03:50
Speaker 2: they had to make the choice of kind of shutting
1:03:53
Speaker 2: down the search in this area or to keep looking.
1:03:55
Speaker 1: Yeah that's such a good connection thank you look at
1:03:59
Speaker 1: you i love that i try like i feel like
1:04:02
Speaker 1: sometimes i feel like a real dum-dum when we read
1:04:06
Speaker 1: the tarot because i feel like i come up with
1:04:08
Speaker 1: very obvious connections what seems obvious to me and then
1:04:13
Speaker 1: you come up with something that i'm like oh i
1:04:15
Speaker 1: never would have thought of that i could have like
1:04:17
Speaker 1: read this a hundred times and never would have thought
1:04:20
Speaker 1: of that yeah.
1:04:23
Speaker 2: I just had a thought, too, about the dog, like,
1:04:25
Speaker 2: having the anti, you know, scratch collar on its neck.
1:04:29
Speaker 2: It's kind of like, it reminds me of how all
1:04:32
Speaker 2: of the, like, jurisdictions, like, you kind of have this
1:04:35
Speaker 2: thing that's, like.
1:04:36
Speaker 1: Around your neck. It's like a barrier. Like a barrier, yeah.
1:04:38
Speaker 1: That's the word I was thinking of. Oh, wow. She
1:04:43
Speaker 1: is next level today. I brought my A game, guys. Sick.
1:04:48
Speaker 1: My tea game, my tarot game. I was like, my
1:04:51
Speaker 1: tea game. When the Two of Wands is reversed, it
1:04:57
Speaker 1: can indicate a delay or difficulty. I would say. Yeah.
1:05:01
Speaker 1: You may be in for a surprise that requires you
1:05:04
Speaker 1: to make changes. This one makes me want to cry. No.
1:05:11
Speaker 1: Perhaps someone you relied on or believed in disappoints you. Oh.
1:05:18
Speaker 1: I think so. I mean, I feel like a lot
1:05:20
Speaker 1: of people think so. Yeah, yeah.
1:05:22
Speaker 2: Or that could be to like the community, like you
1:05:25
Speaker 2: kind of are relying on your government to help out.
1:05:28
Speaker 1: And it's not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that can cut
1:05:31
Speaker 1: several different ways, I think. If you asked about money,
1:05:36
Speaker 1: this card may mean financing for a project gets delayed
1:05:39
Speaker 1: or an investment doesn't produce the return you'd hoped for.
1:05:43
Speaker 1: Use caution in financial partnerships or contracts. Well, they weren't married.
1:05:49
Speaker 1: Brings me back to the very beginning with like the treaties. Yeah.
1:05:53
Speaker 1: Oh my God. The trickies. The trickies. In a reading
1:05:57
Speaker 1: about work, the reverse too can mean you'll have to
1:06:00
Speaker 1: work harder than you'd expect to bring your dream to fruition.
1:06:04
Speaker 1: Sometimes it indicates you've gotten off track and need to
1:06:07
Speaker 1: take action to control a situation. You may have to
1:06:11
Speaker 1: rein in a colleague or contractor or another person may
1:06:14
Speaker 1: not hold up his or her end. I feel like,
1:06:18
Speaker 1: does that just speak to like the jurisdictional and like
1:06:21
Speaker 1: multi-agency like cluster? Yeah, I think so. In a reading
1:06:28
Speaker 1: about love, this card advises being upfront and honest with
1:06:33
Speaker 1: your partner. If the relationship is rocky, you may have
1:06:37
Speaker 1: to make adjustments, especially if you've been too dependent or
1:06:41
Speaker 1: detached in the past. Okay. Okay. Let's see what this
1:06:45
Speaker 1: other one was. It was kind of our— The one
1:06:47
Speaker 1: that didn't shuffle. Okay, you might have to look at
1:06:50
Speaker 1: this one for me. It was also in reverse, and
1:06:53
Speaker 1: it's a two, and it literally has two dogs on it. Oh,
1:06:56
Speaker 1: my gosh. And so now we have three dogs total
1:07:00
Speaker 1: in our tarot cards. That's wild. Yeah. What are the leashes?
1:07:05
Speaker 1: What's the suit for that? I don't know yet. I'm
1:07:08
Speaker 1: going to— Get there. Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. I'm rushing you.
1:07:13
Speaker 2: No, I was just like looking at these two cards
1:07:16
Speaker 2: together and it's like maybe the two dogs who are
1:07:19
Speaker 2: left behind, they're like still together. They're calmer with their
1:07:22
Speaker 2: family because that's what's on the card. It's like two
1:07:25
Speaker 2: dogs snuggling.
1:07:25
Speaker 1: Those leashes kind of wrapped around them almost look like
1:07:28
Speaker 1: a little figure eight.
1:07:29
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then this dog has like a choice to make.
1:07:34
Speaker 2: Like it could be maybe protective or.
1:07:38
Speaker 1: And what's crazy about it is I do remember I
1:07:41
Speaker 1: came across a picture of at least, I don't know
1:07:43
Speaker 1: if it, I can't remember 100% for sure if it
1:07:47
Speaker 1: had all three of the dogs in it, but they
1:07:49
Speaker 1: looked very similar. And I'm reminded of that because all
1:07:54
Speaker 1: three of these dogs in the two tarot cards look
1:07:56
Speaker 1: very similar. And it's all different sizes, shapes, colors of
1:08:01
Speaker 1: dogs in this deck. Yes. Okay. So it is two
1:08:05
Speaker 1: of cups. Yes. Shut the fuck up. Two of cups
1:08:09
Speaker 1: and it's two, two. Interesting. Yeah. Two of cups. Okay.
1:08:14
Speaker 1: I'm going to, I will prepare. I'll read the, from
1:08:18
Speaker 1: the little doggy book. Okay. What's the only thing better
1:08:23
Speaker 1: than one dog? Two. Caitlin would say that. I feel
1:08:27
Speaker 1: like Bess would agree. Like three, four, five. Honestly, I
1:08:32
Speaker 1: would lobby for three. Yeah. I think that would end in,
1:08:38
Speaker 1: I think that would end my marriage.
1:08:42
Speaker 2: This card signifies a union, a romantic connection, friendship, or
1:08:46
Speaker 2: business partnership. And then, so reversed, things are off kilter.
1:08:52
Speaker 2: Maybe one dog is kept on a shorter leash. Maybe
1:08:55
Speaker 2: one dog regularly runs off and leaves the other one behind.
1:08:58
Speaker 1: Okay. interesting. Yeah.
1:09:02
Speaker 2: When a dog gives more affection than she gets, it
1:09:05
Speaker 2: creates resentment and jeopardizes any chance for genuine connection. Take
1:09:10
Speaker 2: a step back, make sure your own cup is full,
1:09:13
Speaker 2: then start seeking balance in your relationships.
1:09:16
Speaker 1: Oh my God. It just makes me think of like
1:09:19
Speaker 1: their relationship. It really does almost make me feel like
1:09:22
Speaker 1: there was a fight. Yeah. But I don't think it
1:09:26
Speaker 1: explains the walk. I don't think that was real. I
1:09:29
Speaker 1: don't think so either. The walk was also at 2 a.m. Oh.
1:09:35
Speaker 1: And we got two twos. Yeah. That's weird. You know
1:09:40
Speaker 1: where else there's two twos? On a ballerina. Get it?
1:09:45
Speaker 1: Two twos. This part. Marking the first anniversary of her disappearance.
1:09:51
Speaker 1: So it was one year and one day. January 22nd, 2026.
1:09:57
Speaker 1: The FBI's Seattle field office released an updated missing person
1:10:04
Speaker 1: poster and announced the $ 10, 000 reward. Wow. Alrighty. When the
1:10:11
Speaker 1: two of cups appears reversed, it suggests disharmony, and a
1:10:16
Speaker 1: lack of cooperation. It may mean a partnership takes a
1:10:20
Speaker 1: while to get going or that you run into obstacles.
1:10:24
Speaker 1: In some cases, it indicates dwindling affection, inequality, or a
1:10:29
Speaker 1: lack of supportiveness in a relationship. Picking up a vibe.
1:10:33
Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like a vibe. Not one
1:10:37
Speaker 1: I like, but... In a reading about money, the reverse, too,
1:10:42
Speaker 1: can signify an uneven investment of resources. It can also
1:10:48
Speaker 1: represent complications or a delay in receiving money, especially from
1:10:53
Speaker 1: a joint venture, trust, divorce settlement, or legacy. That's interesting.
1:10:59
Speaker 1: They weren't married, but the fact that it names, like
1:11:02
Speaker 1: it specifically says divorce settlement, I was like, hmm, well.
1:11:08
Speaker 1: If the reading is about your job, this card may
1:11:10
Speaker 1: mean you don't feel a business partner is pulling his
1:11:13
Speaker 1: or her weight or you don't get the support you desire.
1:11:18
Speaker 1: It can also point to a lack of cooperation in
1:11:20
Speaker 1: your workplace. This is... I mean, it's more of the
1:11:26
Speaker 1: same on the relationship front with like the two cards,
1:11:29
Speaker 1: I feel like. In a reading about love, the reverse
1:11:33
Speaker 1: 2 sometimes represents a secret liaison... Or it may point
1:11:38
Speaker 1: to a period of disharmony or cooling affection. Yeah. Cooling. Oh,
1:11:45
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Perhaps there's a lack of balance or equality
1:11:51
Speaker 1: in a relationship. Interesting.
1:11:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like he, no, like this is totally
1:11:56
Speaker 2: just speculation just based on what I, the information I
1:12:01
Speaker 2: have about Bess. It's probably like she probably didn't take
1:12:05
Speaker 2: no shit. You know, I have to imagine.
1:12:08
Speaker 1: I can imagine. And you know what? If a man
1:12:11
Speaker 1: didn't like that, what may happen. And sometimes, even the
1:12:16
Speaker 1: best of us ladies, we take some shit that we
1:12:19
Speaker 1: really shouldn't. And that's unfortunate. But I don't judge. At
1:12:25
Speaker 1: least I endeavor not to judge the ladies for that.
1:12:29
Speaker 1: That is, you know, that should be laying down. Squarely
1:12:33
Speaker 1: at the feet of the shitty, shitty partner. The shit layer.
1:12:37
Speaker 1: The shit layer. Aw, look at that. He laid another shit.
1:12:43
Speaker 1: That felt good to me. All right. Should we say
1:12:47
Speaker 1: the thing? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Have a creepy
1:12:50
Speaker 1: ass day. We'll see you next Thursday. Not you, Bowman.
1:12:56
Speaker 1: I mean, I really don't have anything all that funny
1:12:59
Speaker 1: to say. Just not you.
1:13:01
Speaker 2: Just if you know anything, if you happen to come
1:13:04
Speaker 2: across this and you know this area and what's going on,
1:13:10
Speaker 2: just let somebody know.
1:13:12
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's still a reward, right? There is. Yeah. The
1:13:16
Speaker 1: reward is actually like, I mean, this case is not
1:13:19
Speaker 1: very old, but the reward is pretty new.
1:13:21
Speaker 2: So.
1:13:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. Still up for grabs. It shouldn't take that. But,
1:13:26
Speaker 1: you know, if that's what gets you, if that's what
1:13:28
Speaker 1: gets you there.
1:13:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:13:30
Speaker 1: See something, say something. I was literally sitting here like
1:13:33
Speaker 1: it's running in a loop in my brain. See something,
1:13:37
Speaker 1: say something.