Latest / What Tha Group Chat Say / The Clancy Trial: Mental Health, Motherhood & Who Gets Grace

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The Clancy Trial: Mental Health, Motherhood & Who Gets Grace · What Tha Group Chat Say

• 0:00
  Vonnie: Welcome to What The Group Chat Say, the podcast where the group chat finally got a mic.
• 0:05
  We're three friends in our 40s talking about life, friendships, relationships, and everything we didn't see coming in this decade.
• 0:13
  I'm Vonnie, here with Keya and Drea, and on today's episode Keya, let's kick off the case of the year, I would say so far
• 0:23
  drea: can I just say something really fast before she breaks it in?
• 0:27
  I have not followed this.
• 0:30
  I don't watch the news, so I never really know what's going on in the world unless I see links or posts or someone brings it to me and I decide to research it.
• 0:39
  and I was recently asked about this on Sunday.
• 0:42
  So go ahead, Keya.
• 0:44
  I just had to put that little disclaimer out there.
• 0:47
  Vonnie: So before we jump in, just a quick note.
• 0:50
  We're talking about an ongoing court case in this episode.
• 0:53
  We're sharing our personal opinions based on what we knew at the time we recorded, and obviously the facts and legal proceedings can continue to evolve.
• 1:02
  We're not lawyers, doctors, or reporting the news.
• 1:05
  We're doing what we always do: talk about what's being talked about in the group chat.
• 1:10
  And this case opened up a much bigger conversation for us about mental health, motherhood, accountability, race, and who gets grace.
• 1:19
  So with that said, let's get into the chat
• 1:22
  keya: Hey, y'all.
• 1:23
  Hey, so up next what we have, on the menu today is this case that is on everybody's lips, the Nancy Clancy case.
• 1:36
  knows, ugh, this case got everybody in a chokehold.
• 1:41
  So if you don't know, it's the case of a woman who killed three of her children.
• 1:49
  they s- are claiming she had postpartum psychosis.
• 1:55
  Now, it is, one to note that she is a white woman, is why it's in the news like it is, in my opinion.
• 2:07
  but of yesterday or maybe Friday, the jury was deadlocked.
• 2:14
  It was declared, a mistrial 'cause they could not come to, um,
• 2:22
  an agreement on if this woman was actually in postpartum psychosis or if she needed to go to jail for the rest of her life for killing her children.
• 2:32
  Now, my take on this, I going to err on the side of postpartum, y'all, is real.
• 2:44
  real, so real.
• 2:47
  went through postpartum.
• 2:48
  I think everybody that I
• 2:50
  drea: I did.
• 2:51
  keya: yeah,
• 2:52
  drea: I did
• 2:53
  keya: went through postpartum.
• 2:55
  They said postpartum psychosis so rare.
• 3:02
  it's also an, a note to add that she get help for her, quote-unquote, "postpartum psychosis" but she said it didn't help, but she said she did it.
• 3:16
  She said, she re- remembers telling her kids some crazy, some crazy stuff So she had to wear a thong to speak to her kids crazy and she remembers doing it.
• 3:35
  She remembers what she did after.
• 3:37
  postpartum psychosis, mm-mm, I don't know.
• 3:42
  Postpartum, I can, I can see that, but killing your three kids is, like, wow.
• 3:50
  so I'm on the side of do I believe her?
• 3:53
  Not really, but I am also staunchly on the side of if this was a Black or Mexican woman, it would be case open, case closed.
• 4:08
  Throw her under the jail.
• 4:10
  She wasn't postpartum or psychosed.
• 4:13
  Throw her under the jail.
• 4:15
  I think that this white woman is getting so much grace because she's white.
• 4:22
  What are y'all thoughts?
• 4:24
  drea: So I feel like there's a lot to this, and like I said, I haven't really been, following the case.
• 4:29
  so I don't know what color the jurors were.
• 4:32
  I don't even know what state this was in.
• 4:35
  but having postpartum depression, it, it did take me down.
• 4:40
  and being in the mental health field, I see where people get, they get psychosis from deep depression, or you can be bipolar with psychosis.
• 4:48
  Like, you can get to such a, a mental state that you can start hallucinating, seeing things.
• 4:56
  And when you ha- or if you're suffering from insomnia, lack of sleep can cause you to be delusional even if, you know, and cause you to get, you know, psychosis at times from lack of sleep, and your behaviors get crazy and stuff like that.
• 5:10
  So then I think about what you just said about her being a white woman, and I do agree that if this was a Brown, Black, Native, anyone other than white, this would be hands down closed case.
• 5:27
  I don't feel they would've given her the opportunity or, you know, even thought twice that, that they didn't do it out of ma- malice or did they really have psychosis, right?
• 5:39
  So I do feel like that is a big factor, which unfortunately is a lot in a lotta cases.
• 5:45
  So I'll see what Shavonne says before I, I kinda say more, but 'cause I've been asked about this.
• 5:52
  Vonnie: and I haven't like, every second of the case either, um, for all of those but I was along the same lines as Keya because w- when I first, you know, heard a little bit about the case, I was like, "Eh." I didn't think it was gonna blow up to be this whole thing.
• 6:05
  And that is the part, the grace really, the sympathy, the…
• 6:10
  And that's the difference because, like we said, postpartum is real, I know tons of people who had it.
• 6:18
  I remember Keya talking about w- your first, you know, when you had Ray Ray, when you were like, "Man, I just remember holding him," and it was just so, it was like the whole moment bigger than me, right?
• 6:29
  It was just like, "I'm responsible for little thing."
• 6:32
  And I think that plus as you guys go through it and the lack of sleep.
• 6:38
  But I just feel like a, a white person goes through these things, fact of the people watching, the whole parasocial thing, they pretend that they know her, but they see themselves.
• 6:51
  "Oh, my gosh, I remember when I was going through this, that," and that's where that grace comes from.
• 6:56
  But they don't see themselves in minority women, so then you're a monster, then you have too many kids, then, um, you shouldn't you can't take care of.
• 7:07
  Because there are other, there were Black women who, you know, had psychosis or had a psychotic moment and, you know, harmed their children and, like, to Keya's point, book thrown.
• 7:19
  No sympathy.
• 7:21
  In public we were all in a l- and I still f- I feel the same way.
• 7:24
  You know, it is unfortunate that they're going through that and there's… But you're still guilty.
• 7:32
  Like, to me, I, you're guilty, and I can't imagine any mom that I know killing their children but then not wanting to face the consequences.
• 7:44
  Like, I don't even understand the standing there on anything and saying, "I'm not guilty," for whatever reason.
• 7:50
  Like, even if it was because I was out of my mind, I killed my children or my children are gone, throw the book at me.
• 7:58
  I would feel like that's how I'd feel.
• 8:00
  You, you know?
• 8:01
  I, so I just don't even understand the, you're like, "Oh, I'm not guilty because I was insane."
• 8:07
  leaving.
• 8:07
  You'd
• 8:07
  drea: So
• 8:08
  Vonnie: I don't know.
• 8:11
  drea: So when,
• 8:12
  keya: I
• 8:12
  drea: when I was, when I was doing mental health, at one point I had a job where I was picking people up from the state hospital who were in the transitional housing, which I don't even know if they have that transitional housing anymore, 'cause it's been so long.
• 8:25
  But this was probably about 17 years ago, and I had to pick up a lady and help her try to re-acclimate into society, and it was like picking her up and taking her to an appointment and see how she acts.
• 8:41
  But, literally the woman was found with a butcher knife in her hand with a baby in her hand walking down Las Vegas Strip With a butcher knife gonna kill this baby, and doesn't recall it, right?
• 8:56
  So that was, like, one of the first things she did, and then she comes to Arizona, and she has her psychosis, and I believe she was schizophrenic with something else.
• 9:04
  I can't remember exactly what all her diagnoses were, but that was, like, my first time, encountering where I was like, "Oh my gosh," like, she can snap.
• 9:14
  And then I had another lady where I'd p- when I'd pick her up, she wasn't in that housing, but she just had mental health services and was getting released from a psych unit, and back then we had to drive people in our cars home at times or take them somewhere.
• 9:29
  And this woman, I went to pick her up one day, and I was like, she had glitter all over her face, but it- 'cause she thought it w- she said it was her lotion, and then she kept showing me her children in the magazine.
• 9:44
  So I'm like, "Okay." So then I put her in my car, and the radio station had to stay on 104.3 because if it went to any other station, somebody was gonna try to get us.
• 9:55
  And so I have been around people who are delusional and psychotic and having auditory and visual hallucinations.
• 10:05
  it happens.
• 10:07
  Now, when it comes to this lady, I, I don't… Like I said, I haven't been following it.
• 10:13
  Do I feel like it could have possibly really occurred that way?
• 10:16
  Yeah.
• 10:17
  But I don't feel that she should get off because my thing is, like, she needs help.
• 10:23
  And I think what a lot of people don't realize or even know is that I've seen this in, so many times where someone could literally, let's say, they've been depressed and sleeping for years, and they can't get out of their depression, and then all of a sudden they have a kid, and then all of a sudden they have the kid, their hormones change, and now they're not taking as many meds for their depression.
• 10:50
  Their anxiety's better because their hormones and their chemical balance changed.
• 10:54
  Then there's people who have had children, and they never suffered from being bipolar or depressed, and they have a child, chemical balance, hormones, and now they are now on medications for whatever the case may be.
• 11:10
  And so I think sometimes people forget that- Or don't know that when a woman does have a child, whether they have mental health or they don't, but especially those who are, do have some type of mental health illness, having a child can change you, after having that kid, even during, but especially after, and it could be for good or bad.
• 11:31
  And so when you do have mental health, it's really important to have the right doctors that understand being pregnant with hormones, chemicals changing, and, you know, being able to manage that so that when that woman does have that child, they don't get worse off than they might have been prior to, or they stay balanced, or maybe they get a little better 'cause things change.
• 11:53
  So I've seen that as well.
• 11:56
  but I still don't feel that someone who can get to that point of psychosis should not be recommended and/or observed in some type of lockdown facility for a long time because you just gonna let somebody out on the street.
• 12:12
  How you know she's… How you know this ain't gonna happen again?
• 12:15
  How you know she's, stabilized?
• 12:17
  And so that's what makes me worried about the courts, 'cause I don't know how this goes.
• 12:20
  So if they let her off, does she just go back home like nothing happened?
• 12:24
  Because, like, who's monitoring her?
• 12:27
  Like, what if this psychosis wasn't just about kids?
• 12:30
  Like, what if now something happens and something triggers and she snaps again?
• 12:34
  Like, that, that's where I'm thinking about stuff.
• 12:37
  And like Shavonne said, as a mother, if I, even if I was in a psychosis and I killed my child, I would not want to live.
• 12:46
  I would not want to… Like, leave me where I need to be.
• 12:51
  You know what I'm saying?
• 12:52
  Just, that's my thoughts
• 12:54
  keya: I was gonna say, like, like Vonnie said, like if I actually snapped and kill my kids and I come out of the psychosis like she seemingly has, nah, I'ma, I'ma go ahead and sit here 'cause the next thing is y'all gonna find my body.
• 13:12
  Like, 'cause what do you mean?
• 13:15
  Like, in my moment of, "Oh my God, I killed my kids," then there's, like, no reason for me to be here 'cause
• 13:24
  drea: Right, put me on suicide watch, like right now
• 13:27
  keya: right now.
• 13:28
  Vonnie: let's
• 13:29
  keya: you the
• 13:30
  gonna find is my body.
• 13:33
  Vonnie: even like, wasn't like she put some carbon monoxide, turned that on, and everybody just went to sleep and she just got out of it.
• 13:40
  Like, they were, like, killed, you know what I mean?
• 13:43
  So it's, if…
• 13:46
  still deserves it, right.
• 13:47
  She deserves to pay for what she did, period.
• 13:51
  Period.
• 13:51
  I mean, those kids suffered, and the fact that she's their mother versus a stranger, they don't deserve justice?
• 13:58
  So everybody's, like, seeing themselves in her and, "Oh, I w- I feel sorry for her," and, "Oh, the doctor shoulda da, da, da." The children did not choose who had them, so it's just such a crazy… Because these same people that see themselves in her and want them off are the same people who don't believe women should have abortions because life starts at conception.
• 14:20
  So is life precious at conception or is it not?
• 14:25
  And so how are you rallying at somebody who has what you would consider a late-term abortion, but you can have psychosis afterwards and kill the baby and I feel sorry for you?
• 14:35
  is the, the, I'm just so disconnected with all of that, and not to get even into the fact that, fact that we're Americans and the healthcare system sucks, and you have to, like, you can't even just go in a regular basis because
• 14:57
  drea: funny you say, not funny, but how you bring up, like, those people who voted whatever because I'm pr- there's probably gonna be a lot of men out there who are now gonna believe that women cannot lead because we have emotional imbalance and a period or a pregnancy or something can knock us off the rockers, right?
• 15:18
  'Cause just think about when your period comes, especially when you're young, you don't understand your emotions and what you're feeling and going through.
• 15:26
  And, you know, like I sh- right before my period used to come, I would sit there.
• 15:30
  You could tell me my hair looked ugly, and my ass might sit there and cry.
• 15:34
  But any other time, you ain't gonna see me cry, right?
• 15:37
  So just think about people who may now look at women as can we lead?
• 15:42
  'Cause I've heard some people say that, and I think that's some bullshit, but something like this could cause some of those Americans to now really think that we are incompetent at any moment
• 15:54
  keya: they're going to use this.
• 15:56
  But they're only gonna use it towards white America again, which large in part walk, lockstep in whatever their misogynist husband says anyway.
• 16:10
  Because I don't think Black women nor Black men are buying homegirl's story.
• 16:15
  Like, and, and, and to note and not saying that professionals cannot snap.
• 16:24
  She was, I think, a labor and delivery nurse.
• 16:28
  Like, she's a nurse.
• 16:31
  yes,
• 16:34
  drea: Wait, what?
• 16:36
  So I wonder, like, was one of the kids crying or yelling, or were they fighting and she just fucking lost it 'cause of all the noise?
• 16:43
  Like, what the fuck?
• 16:46
  Wow.
• 16:46
  But I mean, you know, a lot of people don't real- Like, and, well, and then I think about you said she was on meds, right?
• 16:52
  Somebody was already seeing her, so imagine that counselor or therapist that she had or, um, psychiatrist, like, how they even are feeling,
• 17:04
  you know?
• 17:04
  But I didn't know she was a… worked.
• 17:07
  keya: No, married.
• 17:09
  drea: she had double stress from work, stress from kids.
• 17:12
  keya: their
• 17:12
  drea: she… And she was a single parent?
• 17:16
  Oh
• 17:16
  Vonnie: to kill
• 17:16
  herself.
• 17:18
  he got on the stand too, and she's just
• 17:20
  drea: Ooh, I wonder how he feels
• 17:21
  Vonnie: don't know.
• 17:21
  For me, I'm like, uh, under the jail.
• 17:24
  say under the jail if that was a Black woman, a poor Black woman
• 17:28
  keya: They definitely jail if it was Black baby.
• 17:31
  She wouldn't have… It would've never garnered the positive attention that homegirl is getting.
• 17:40
  Never.
• 17:42
  would've, like you
• 17:45
  it would've been every horrible stereotype they could
• 17:49
  drea: not.
• 17:50
  It sure wouldn't have
• 17:52
  keya: they don't know Although, since they kidnapped us and brought us over here, we've been taking care of their kids.
• 18:01
  But it would've been, "They're not mothers." Like, it- the whole race would've been indicted and not just doing this one woman, "Oh, so, so fragile." Girl, bye
• 18:19
  Vonnie: I mean, I just feel like, and then when I see all of the armchair and Instagram or, or Twitter people who are, they're getting their Nancy Grace on, like watching every little news clip and refuting doctors and all kinds of things,
• 18:37
  reminds me, it's just hilarious to me 'cause I'm like, "I, y'all got, y'all experts at everything, but, you know, how to get your lives together."
• 18:46
  Like, how is this possible?
• 18:50
  keya: I think I seen a clip, of course it was conservative so it was always gonna be slanted, but, it was another white woman asking a white woman, like, "So how do you feel about this case?" And she was like, the person being interviewed said, "She's innocent." And the lady was like, "What do you mean she's innocent?
• 19:14
  She said she did it.
• 19:15
  She's guilty." I think that was talked into believing that she was guilty and that she did it.
• 19:26
  And they were like, "But the wea- um, the weapons or whatever that she used, like the evidence showed all of her actions that day." No, um, I feel like her husband hand in it and they just didn't, um, they didn't, wanna present that.
• 19:45
  And lady asked her, "Well, why isn't her defense using, uh, you know, that her husband did it or, or helped her do it, or she's not, um, not using, um, some sort of defense," she said and she like, "Well, I don't, um, I don't know all the particulars about part, but I just know that she didn't do that and she needs to not go to jail for life."
• 20:17
  Girl, what?
• 20:18
  Like I didn't even know her own defense wasn't, um, using the lane that armchair detectives, like you just said, Vonnie, are doing.
• 20:28
  Her defense didn't even go that route.
• 20:31
  But baby, they are giving her every benefit to get this woman off of being charged
• 20:43
  Vonnie: point earlier too, like she really-- It's kinda funny now she's sitting there, she's not, um, you know, she's able control herself and do all of these things and we wanna just release her into society not knowing what the trigger really was.
• 21:00
  I mean, nobody was home but them and them babies.
• 21:02
  It just reminds me of that lady who killed Selena.
• 21:04
  Like she's like, "Only person knows what happened are me and Selena." Well, she's dead so you're in jail and that should be that lady.
• 21:11
  Like your kids are dead so we don't even know.
• 21:13
  We don't know if it was, oh she reached some sort of breaking point or the children did anything.
• 21:18
  She could have been just a horrible mom this whole time and who knows?
• 21:23
  Those babies were all young.
• 21:24
  So just, it's crazy that I just feel like they deserve justice for their lives being cut short and by the person who was supposed to protect them over everybody else, so
• 21:36
  keya: Me too.
• 21:37
  Vonnie: that.
• 21:37
  keya: Absolutely.
• 21:40
  Absolutely in there
• 21:46
  Vonnie: All right, people.
• 21:47
  Well, thank you for staying with us.
• 21:48
  We know we have taken a few breaks, but we are back and, uh, we will consistent episodes.
• 21:56
  So we thank you.
• 21:57
  With that, we'll turn it over to Keya
• 21:58
  keya: chatties.
• 21:59
  Yes, chatties.
• 22:00
  Thank y'all for being on this ride with us.
• 22:04
  We are back, but as always, please share, like, subscribe, us your questions, email us, d- um, put your n- questions on our Facebook page.
• 22:20
  Get in contact with us.
• 22:23
  hang with us, and chatties, thanks for being with us
• 22:30
  drea: So we- we've been booked and busy in our own personal lives, so getting together has not been that easy.
• 22:36
  But we are committed, so welcome us back.
• 22:40
  We welcome you back, and let's have fun