Latest / Arizona Unscripted / Episode 14: 🌵 Arizona Unscripted - Let's explore Route 66 with Author Jim Hinckley!
Transcript
- Arizona Unscripted: Welcome to Arizona Inscripted. I'm your host, Bart, alongside my wonderful co-hosts Diane and Jim today. And from time to time, we'll be joined by special pop-in guests from communities all across the Grand Canyon State. Arizona Inscript is all about Arizona, its people, its places, its events, and local issues that shape our everyday lives. From small towns to big cities, from hidden gems, and of course, great local food, history and culture. And we also discuss the challenges facing our communities. We're here to have real conversation with real Arizonas. So our goal is simple celebrate what makes Arizona the best place on the planet. So grab a cup of coffee or something cool. Sit back and join us as we explore the people, places, and stories make Arizona that's what it is. The most fascinating state in America. So welcome to Arizona Inscripted. And with that, I'm going to pass it over to Diane. Hi, Diane. Hi, Bart. Good morning. Super excited to be here today. Yeah. And I will tell you, I have been looking forward to this episode for so long with our special guests today. And we will have Jim tell us a little bit about himself. ⁓ before we get there, we have our own Jim. Welcome, Jim, ⁓ from Mojave County. Thank you for being here as well. And I know that Catherine is listening in as she is on her own road trip today. We also have Daniel and Rebecca here. So, Jim Price, tell us a little bit about this morning and I know we've talked a little bit about our guests and we're really excited for today's episode. I can't wait to listen to all the different things on Route Sixty Six. I I grew up in the Chicago area, so I know all the one end of it, but not so much of the other end. And Jim, author, thank you for being here with us. Tell us about yourself and your journey. See the books you have written just have us hungry for more. So welcome and tell us a little bit about your adventures. Well, ⁓ I just finished my twenty-third book. I'm working on becoming a I'm working on becoming a writer when I grow up. I'm working on becoming a writer and ⁓ and I'm working on growing up. ⁓ You could probably cue the Twilight Zone music at just about any time. Everything in my life has been pretty much tied to Route 66 since 1959. And ⁓ yes, I am that old. ⁓ we made our first trip west from Norfolk, Virginia in the summer of fifty nine, out of Arizona. And then my pa was ⁓ and I'm not imaginative enough to make this up. My pa was a World War II Navy veteran in the Pacific. And then he was on the in the Coast Guard on the Great Lakes. And in the summer of 1966, he mustered out of the service. And like a lot of fellas in his generation, he was enamored with the romanticism of the Southwest. And he wanted a piece of that. And he didn't want anything else to do with water. So he literally folded a map of the western United States and threw a dart. And that's that's how that's how I ended up out here in Arizona. And Being a kid from back east, ⁓ North Carolina, Tennessee, Michigan, Virginia, ⁓ when I first moved to Kingman, I thought this was the place they warned me about in Sunday school. It just wasn't a pretty picture. And e even worse, my my pod got caught up in a land boondoggle, and it turns out the property he bought sight unseen was along the pre nineteen fifty two alignment of Route sixty six, Oatman Road, between Kingman and Oatman. We built a homestead out there along the road. I learned to drive on that road. I learned to ride a bicycle on that road. Wow. And for those familiar with ⁓ St. Greaves Pass going up to Oatman, my first paying job was for Ed Edgerton up at Ed's camp. And then pretty much every year we would have this epic Odyssey that was worthy of the grapes of wrath. ⁓ my my dad called it a vacation. other people other people probably would think of it as purgatory, but he'd get off at the mine from Duvall, and in two weeks we would drive ⁓ from Kingman to see family in Alabama, Tennessee, and his his family in Michigan, and then come back to Arizona. And that usually involved all or part of Route 66. Wow. Then I had my John Wayne period that I never outgrew. And started working a lot of ranches. I even tried rodeo for a while. figured out that was God's way of eliminating stupid people. And but I a lot of the ranches I worked on were ⁓ along Route 66, like the old X-Bar One ⁓ Crozier Canyon Ranch was actually a resort back in the teens, twenties and thirties. And ⁓ then I tried truck driving for a bit, ran ⁓ Navajo and a couple others. And ⁓ I came in at the tail end of Route 66 when it was Route 66 and I-40 was transitioning. My my run was from Kingman to Oklahoma City or Wichita. Wow. And that run, that's pretty much all sixty-six. If I was going to Wichita, I would run ⁓ Route sixty six to Tucum Carrie and then fifty-four into Wichita. Otherwise it was a straight run to Oklahoma City. then I I I've always been blue collar mining, ranching, truck driving, repossessing cars. ⁓ but I love books. I I still read two to three books a month. No, and I always wanted to be a writer. Well, how do you choose how do you choose the books, Jim? How do you choose your books? So that's a that's what I find difficult, right? No, not really. I'm interested in anything. Right now on my desk, I have ⁓ this month's reading. I have a book about from David McCullough about Harry Truman. I have the ⁓ biography of Barry Goldwater and Becoming by Michelle Obama, and also on the list is D Day by Stephen Ambrose and Appetite for America. about the ⁓ Harvey houses. Wow. So I ⁓ I I read on any any subject at all. Any subject at all. So the famous Jim Hanckley is an avid reader, not just an avid writer. Yeah, I love books. Well how else do you get your mentoring as well, right? You get influences and stuff like listening to music. How do you get that? You you read books and helps you with your own writing. I mean gosh. Yeah, books are an important part. ⁓ as far as the as far as the writing and the Jim Hinckley's American Network, ⁓ for years people told me I seemed to have a gift for telling people where to go. And I I mean direction wise, you mean or I'll I'll let you fill in the blanks on that. And I ⁓ I was also told I couldn't tell stories tell stories for hours, even if I was the only one in the room and still enjoy myself. And ⁓ My my dearest friend, my wife, in ⁓ about almost forty five years now. ⁓ She sh she gently encouraged me to to start writing back in nineteen ninety. And I I started writing and that evolved into the Jim Hinckley's American Network and books, magazine articles, presentations, ⁓ community development programs, ⁓ I ⁓ work with development of educational programs, those kind of things. But your resume is really broad. Thank you. Well, and I know, you know, we've loved talking about the little dive places along roads when we're road tripping and those special places that you want to go see and the mysteries that are out there. You've had a full adventure with those things. Yeah, ⁓ I'm not myopic. ⁓ some people, especially when it comes to Route 66, they they get so narrow-minded they can look down a beer bottle with both eyes. Yeah, is is all they'll they see is Route 66. But I love I just my whole idea behind Jim Hinckley's America is to encourage people to discover America with road trips. Period. And the best road trip is Route 66, but any road trip will do US six, US fifty, US twelve, take a road trip, take time to talk to the people. That's the way you discover this country. And Route 66. Because of what it's evolved into, it's ⁓ pretty spectacular. It's a really special kind of route sixty six, it is a special kind of road trip. And this is a really special year, right? The hundred-year anniversary, and you've been really busy with groups wanting to know more about it. ⁓ groups, ⁓ media. I've been working with CNN, Fox, Christian Science Monitor, New York Times, Chicago Tribune. ⁓ and it's not just You know, of course, the hundredth anniversary of Route 66, but in 1927, Route 66 was ⁓ marketed as the main street of America. And since it's the 250th anniversary of the United States, what better place does discover and learn about America than on the main street of America? It's a it's a perfect fit in my book. It really is. I mean, think about like one long Main Street in some ways, right? With sections in between. Well, Route sixty six is it's it's fascinating because first of all, it's a road for God's sakes. Yes, it's a road, yeah. And it's officially officially it doesn't even exist. And yet you have Route Sixty Six associations all over the world organizing tours and events. and Route sixty six is like America's longest small town. It is the entire American experience manifest in this road. We have Are prehistory. You have villages in New Mexico along Route 66, like ⁓ Laguna Pueblo. The chapel there was built in 1699, and the village is two or three hundred years older. Wow. And yet on the other end, you have the world's first electric vehicle museum being developed along Route 66. So, yeah, I I don't think people really understand that. Right. They they kind of think I think every when I think I've read 66, I think of this road, this beautiful with all these just quote, you know, ⁓ towns to go through. It's kind of neat, but I had no clue about what you just said was there. My gosh. I mean, we have a lot to explore for sure. Well, yeah, you know, in it's well here in Arizona, for example, ⁓ really it's got a real interesting history and some great polit political problems, ⁓ fascinating political stuff. But when you think about Most of Route 66 here in Arizona is an example. ⁓ there was a there's a turquoise mine near Kingman, ⁓ the smithsonian back hole eighty years ago did an archaeological survey and figured that people have been pearling turquoise out of that hole for a thousand years. ⁓ my gosh. That turquoise has showed up in New Mexico and Gran Quivera down in the Yucatan Peninsula. But there was a Native American trade route across northern Arizona from the Zuni Pueblos. The Colorado River, the Mojave villages, and then across the Mojave Desert to the tribes on the coast of California. Father Garcis was the first European to chronicle, ⁓ he's chronicled a Spanish expedition along that trade route here in northern Arizona. And then you had ⁓ Francois Javier Aubrey, Set Greaves, and of course Lieutenant Beale and his care camel caravan. They f they followed that trade route, that trade route. That became the Beale Wagon Road, the first federally funded road in the Southwest. And that that was followed by the Atlantic and Pacific Railroad, which became Atchison Topeke and Santa Fe. And then that was followed by the National Trails Road, then Route 66, I-40, I-11, US 93, US 466. It's all right there, just layers and layers of our history in one road. Well, you know, when I'm in Kingman, every time when I come into town, there's that ⁓ big display where people can have their cars underneath it, right? And they can be in there and get a picture taken of themselves and their vehicle going through the big Route Sixty Six thing. And it's people are always smiling. It's so much great energy there. It's right by the museum and it's it's a destination place for people. I mean, Route Sixty Six means something to so many people. And I love that you've written these books about it's it's really fascinating. And it's hard for me. My folks used to tease me at the most inopportune times telling stories that I was potty trained along this road. But so it's so so it's really hard for me to fathom the popularity of this road. but from its inception What has made Route 66 unique, besides its layers and layers of history, is it's always had the best press and publicity. And as a result, it has become the American story made manifest. Immigrants, our dark chapters, ⁓ the Green Book for the Negro Motorists. Yeah. The the international interest in the road. This this will really get you. ⁓ I was speaking in 2018 at the second European Route 66 Festival in Zlyn, Chechia. And I had a gentleman come up to me in his broken English and tell me that growing beh up behind the Iron Curtain, listening to that song, Get Your Kicks on Route 66 on Radio Free America, watching bootleg copies of Easy Rider. He said he said Route 66 and the Great American Road Trip came to symbolize freedom for his generation, like the Statue of Liberty had for a previous generation. Wow. You know, I keep thinking about how Route 66 was connecting rural areas, right? It was providing a thoroughfare to other areas. And that as it was being built, I mean, we didn't have social media back then, right? So each of those segments were being built, trusting that the others were being built as well, and they were going to connect together. And I just love that image of people working toward a vision and this hope for a better future and that hunger for connection. And to know now that it's all complete and people can just hop on there and go and experience some of these things. I'm really looking forward to some of your stories. I mean, is it true that you've come into ghost towns? Yeah, as far as far as the hauntings, you know, I leave that to people in their own imagination. ⁓ I'm I I'm smart enough to realize the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. And so I don't totally dismiss things, but generally when I hear tales of hauntings and ghosts and things, it usually ha I find out that people have been imbibing in Moscow or some other ⁓ great substance to To kind of help these stories along. But some of these places as well, as might be expected on the main street, there's some very, very dark, dark chapters on Route 66. Yes. When I wr when I wrote the book Murder in Mayhem on the Main Street of America, Tales from Bloody 66, I tried to be careful because Route 66 today is viewed as ⁓ America's longest theme park. And and you don't want to find out that Goofy was an axe murderer. So I tried to be somewhat careful. I didn't get too dark, but it's amazing the stories of serial killers, unsolved murders, just the most horrible things that you can. It shows you how timeless things are. Today we we hear about these things and we're shocked. They were happening then. You know, it's just just part of life, but ⁓ you just don't associate that. We think neon and tail fence. We don't think about serial killers on sixty six. But I feel like that's really important. It's such an important part of our history and ⁓ the connection and bringing people from multiple states, multiple multiple communities together and watching people head out on this for their own experiences. It's pretty pretty interesting. ⁓ Yeah, when I what I try to do, my I I Jim Hinckley's America, our slogan is ⁓ telling people where to go and sharing America's story. And I am not a proponent at all of sugarcoating. If you don't like the Green Book and the Green Book sites, and you so you won't include those in the story in the history, it's like putting together a jigsaw puzzle and tossing all the blue pieces because blue upsets you. You're not gonna have a clear picture. You're not gonna have the entire story. So I I try to tell all the history from the evolution of the auto industry. It doesn't matter what subject I'm writing or talking on. ⁓ I'm going to tell the story and in its entirety, warts and all. We love that. Yeah. More modern twist of Route sixty six. We just had the Route sixty six Chicagoland NASCAR race yesterday. And ⁓ that's in Joliet, Illinois. Yeah. Where I grew up, yeah. Joliet, ⁓ the the intersection of US six and US sixty six. Yeah. Julian go ahead. I used to drag race my car on route six. No, you didn't drag racing. You always stayed under the speed limit, right, Jim? Yeah, fifty-five in the highway and thirty-five through residential zone. Sure, sure we did. I I did the same thing out here by Stuckies. ⁓ yeah, yeah the Route 66 today is ⁓ It's a it's a linear community and it is America's longest small town. But but it's it's really the entire American story. The immigrants, the role that they played yeah, in the origins of this road, and they're still continuing to play, not just as travelers, but we've got businesses opening all up and down Route Sixty Six by passionate people, with Route Sixty Six. ⁓ the owners the owners of the Aztec motel in ⁓ Seligman, Arizona. They restored this 1930s motel. And very fascinating story. His wife is from Arizona. He is from the Netherlands. And they met while they were both working in Australia. And the connection was they were both fascinated by Route 66. I love that. That's great. So I'm thinking about I'm I'm guessing there is. No stopping to writing books. So my guess is you've got another book in the works. Is that true? If I can find a publisher, yeah. It it that writing, there's no money to be made in writing. Absolutely none. But I am it opens doors for me to do other things. And I'm a f I'm a firm believer that we're all blessed with gifts and talents. And we have a responsibility to develop those to be a blessing unto others. The rest will take care of itself. The next book I want to do is I want to write about the automotive pioneers that we never hear of. ⁓ Florence Lawrence, ⁓ Effie Hotchkiss, ⁓ Ralph Teeter, ⁓ people who transformed this auto industry that you never hear of. And I want to write about the ancestral relationship of the early automotive industry, Henry Ford's role in the establishment of a Cadillac. John and Horace Dodge's contributions to the establishment of Oldsmobile in Ford. That's probably the next I'd like to do that one next. ⁓ Sounds fascinating. We need some inspiration. So ⁓ we've talked a lot about road tripping and barbecue, and we've got our other gym gonna be talking about homebrewing. coming up on a future podcast. And I'm so certain that you have seen the whole realm of lived experiences in your journeys. Yeah, I just got back from Tulsa. ⁓ I was at the Triple A Route 66 Roadfest. I was very privileged to share the stage and talk about Route 66 with Michael Wallace, a Pulitzer Prize winning author, who's also the voice of the sheriff in the animated film Cars. I was very very honored to be a part of him. Made some great new discoveries. And every time when people ask me how long does it take to see and do Route 66, my answer is I don't know because I've only been doing it since 1959. ⁓ it changes constantly. ⁓ I was I went down the road last year and this year in Stroud, Oklahoma, there's a wonderful new little motel, an old one restored. ⁓ this the ⁓ Skyliner Motel in Stroud. The neon's done. What makes that one particularly exciting is the owners. He's 27 years old, works at Tinker Air Force Base full time, and she's a registered nurse, and she's 24 years old. Wow. So there's inspiration there. And then right around the corner, one of the best Mexican restaurants I have found in years, Uncle Pepe's just opened two weeks ago. And I I ended I enjoyed it so much I ended up eating there twice on this trip. We love our food and we have been taking notes and asking all of our guests about where are the food places that we have to go. ⁓ the no miss places, right? ⁓ so there's gotta be a bunch of those, right? There's gotta be a I mean it's it's like eating a huge enchilada. I mean, whatever. It's like too much here to So Tim, like is there a place to start? Like if you're driving if if you you know, you don't get in this kind of shape and not like good pie. ⁓ I love goodbye. One of the places I found last year, and we went back and ate there twice while we were in Tulsa, and it's the damnedest place. Sweetie Pies Amish Kitchen and Bakery. And it's in a strip mall next to ⁓ a dispensary, a tattoo parlor, and a bale bondsman. ⁓ all it's on Route 66 in Tulsa. And absolutely wonderful food. Now they've added a little store with jams and jellies and I filled the filled the car with that stuff on the way home. But anything you want in Pasadena, there's Hyder Baba, an absolutely wonderful, authentic Persian cafe right on Route 66. You can find places like in Venita, Oklahoma, ⁓ Clanton's Cafe, one family owned since the 1920s. here in Kingman, Mr. D's Route 66 Diner has a whole bunch of links to fascinating history. It looks like the caricature of a 1950s diner, but it actually opened January of 1940 on Route 66. It was a shell station and a cafe. The D is for Dunton, Roy Dunton, okay and the Dunton family, Dunton Motors. That family is celebrating 100 years of doing business on Route 66. Wow. And there's more to the story because ⁓ the f the people who put ⁓ the cafe together. There's a great all-American story. A fellow named Osterman was a Swedish immigrant that got caught up in the Mexican Revolution, ended up in Arizona working for the railroad, ⁓ and then got his brothers over here. And they built the Osterman station in Peach Springs. They built a garage and gas station in Kingman. They opened the Kingman Cafe. One of the brothers opened a motel on Route 66 in Newberry Springs. And They also opened the Dodge and Plymouth dealership here in Kingman. Their grand his grandson just retired from the Kingman Fire Department. And Mr. Osterman's wife, that was running the Kingman Cafe, she came here as one of the Harvey girls. ⁓ in one location, you have the entire American store right there. Wow. Well, Jim, we have to wrap up for this one. Would you come back and join us? For another one. We would love to hear some more of these stories and I really need to know I love road tripping about the places the that we can maybe more than one, Diane. Yeah, right. Maybe more than one. We have a lot to explore with you. We have so much to explore and our people are loving our conversations about road trips and the places that you don't want to miss. So ⁓ yes, thank you for being here today. We will have you back again for another episode. Very good. Thank you, Jim. You bet guys.