Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK Assassination - Ep. 274 - Cuban Prisons & Right Wing Villains

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JFK Assassination - Ep. 274 - Cuban Prisons & Right Wing Villains · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

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Damn Movie and Joey, Joe and Tom and Joey Hello, Drama Day and
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Joby Joey and Joy and Joey Rama, dramm Comen Sinking po Jam in the
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No Domment Podcast any week ago. Hey there, this is Mark Gruber along
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with my girlfriend Derek Huntley from America's Really Old Stories. You are about to
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hear the most listened to exclusively JFK Assassination Podcast and one of my favorites,
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the Lone Gunman Podcast. Now here's Rob and Joe. You're muted dork and
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here we go and here we go. What's up, everybody? Welcome to
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episode number two hundred and seventy four Cuban Prisons and right Wing Villains. I'm
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one of your hosts, Big Bad Bob otherwise known as Rob Clark. Along
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with me today is the always handsome and debonair dapper Joe Borelli. How you
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doing, Joe good? How are you, mister Rob? I'm fantastic.
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It's been a bit of a week, seems like it flew by, and
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here we are again, diving back into the assassination my friend. Yeah,
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it was a very fast week and unfortunately getting over a little cold so if
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my voice is a little horse, excuse me for that. But excited for
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the episode. I'm happy to see some of the regulars here, Hi,
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Colleen, Ashley, catch out e, Steve and Scott Scott who was ready
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to that deserves to be put up there? Yes, yes, I agree,
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Scott. It's time for some hot sauce, my friend, and we
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are going to mention d a ge o tonight as well. He kind of
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ties into what I'm gonna be talking about in a weird way. Tangent hiw
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and uh, what's up? South to west? All of our people's are
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here, and I'm sure more will be a coming here. There's Jack,
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Hey, Jack, Just give everybody a little time to get in and get
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settled. So what I'm going to talk about today, Joe is Warren Reynolds
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a little bit. Okay, everybody should be familiar with his story, but
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if they're not, I'll do a slight recap for folks. Sure he was
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not a witness to the Tippet shooting, but he was a witness to supposedly
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Oswald running away from the tip of shooting and him and his buddy's there at
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the Johnny Reynolds car lot that his brother owned actually gave chase to Oswald or
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whoever the person was that was fleeing from the scene of the tipp and murr
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They actually chased him up Patton Street all the way to Jefferson and about a
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block down Jefferson where they supposedly saw this person trying to break into a secondhand
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furniture store down on Jefferson. This store was besides something called Dean's Dairy Bar,
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which I guess was like an old ice cream joint back in the day.
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And in front or right beside that was a mechanic shop or a Texico
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station. And of course this is where supposedly, you know, the white
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or gray or whatever color jacket was supposedly found thrown underneath a vehicle there that
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was parked on the lot. And then Warren Reynolds was famously shot in the
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head in January of nineteen sixty four as he was closing the dealership up one
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night. He had to go in the basement to turn the lights off,
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and somebody jumped out of the shadows with a twenty two rifle and shot him
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right in the temple, and the bullet traversed his temple and then came to
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rest right in front of his ear. Since he was a twenty two,
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it didn't really do much damage. He was able to, you know,
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find a child to put on it and walk up the stairs and called nine
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one one and all that good stuff, and you know, he was he
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was fine. Luckily, it didn't penetrated skull or damage his eye or anything
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major like that. But this was the first that the police actually interviewed him,
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was after he was shot. So, Warren Reynolds had a peculiar friend
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named General Edwin Walker. Okay, now when uh huh, oh very family.
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Yes, yes, so when you're General Walker's friend, Joe, there's
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likely to be some fukery going on, you know what I'm saying, almost
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guaranteed. Yeah. So when General Walker was testified before the Warren Commission,
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he said, the testimony of Warren Reynolds, victim of an attempted assassination by
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a shot in the temple, cannot be ignored in a complete investigation. I
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respectfully request his appearance before your commission. Now. You see, Warren Reynolds
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had went to meet with General Walker at his house on June twenty fourth,
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or sixty four and discussed the above with him, which is the fact that
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he said he had witnessed Lee Oswald running with a gun from the scene of
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the shooting of Dallas police officer J. D. Tippett. Reynolds said he
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wanted General Walker's advice as to what he should do. Now, how Dago
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comes into the picture. Now, he was accused relatively quickly of being the
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one that shot Warren Reynolds in the head, because apparently he had been there
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a couple of days before that and tried to sell him a car with no
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title, and they told him to get lost, and apparently they figured,
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well, he was probably very mad and upset from that and figured he'd shoot
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Warren Reynolds in the head for whatever reason. But Warren Reynolds quickly dispelled this
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notion by describing his assailant as five foot four and either Mexican or black,
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but definitely dark complexed, which Dego was not so. But they still the
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police still invested, investigated Dego very heavily, gave him a lie detector test
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and all that stuff, and finally it was determined that he was telling the
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truth. He wasn't the one that shot Warren Reynolds in the head, but
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it's just odd. I mean, you know, just like out of nowhere.
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And Warren Reynolds said that the guy had to have been waiting down there
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for at least three and a half hours for him to come down there.
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So this was definitely a, like General Walker said, an assassination attempt,
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you know, a planned murder attempt. But what's interesting is, I guess
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it was about ten years ago or so. I mentioned the Dean's dairy bar
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that was down on Jefferson Street, and about ten years or so ago,
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Doris Dean's daughter, Delilah No, Doris Dean's daughter contacted researcher Dale Myers,
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who was who's who wrote the book Without Malice about JB. Tippett's murder,
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And of course he's excuse me, a loan nutter and believes that Oswald is
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definitely the one that did all this. But it doesn't change the fact that
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we have a new witness coming forward, uh to you know, an investigator.
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So the daughters tell Dale Myers a story about their mom. Now,
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Missus Dean's account supported what Reynolds has told the FAA cameraman Ron Reeland on the
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afternoon of the Tippet shooting, that he had seen Tippet's killer go into this
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second secondhand used furniture store, but Reynolds did not remain on East Jefferson after
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he saw Oswald duck behind the second hand and furniture store, and instead Reynolds
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went to the Tippet shooting scene, where he gave a detailed description of the
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gunman to Dallas patrolman Roy Walker, and informed the television cameraman and reporter Ron
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Reeland and presumably policed the scene that Oswald was hiding in an old building down
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the street. Now, of course, when we're talking about all this as
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Oswald's a or whoever it was, fleeing from the scene, they dumped their
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jacket right well. Missus Dean states that she saw this person running behind her
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store and then coming around the side where this Texico station was, and there
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was a tire rack on the side of the building, and she claimed that
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that person threw the jacket on the tire rack and that she went out and
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retrieved it, which is totally different than the conventional. Hey, we found
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the jacket under a car, you know, at the Texico station. So
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Reynolds never mentioned the second hand Furniture store in any of his sixty four statements
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to the Warrant Commission or the FBI, despite the fact that he told police
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and reporters this one November twenty second, that he saw Tippet's killer enter the
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building and later led police to search it. But what's interesting is that he,
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after chasing this person, went back to the scene of the shooting to
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give a description of the suspect. So you know, if ozwalt to toss
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his jacket onto the tire rack, as allegedly claimed by missus Dean, and
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then she retrieved it and took it to her store, where she later turned
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it over to police. Why would the Texaico mechanic Robert Brock tell NBC's Robert
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McNeil the very next day that the jacket was found by police in the parking
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lot behind the service station. Wouldn't Brock have known that his statement could easily
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be disproven by missus Dean. Furthermore, with the purpose its claiming the jacket
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to be found in the parking lot behind the service station and not on the
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tire rack alongside the station, what does that even matter? According to her
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daughters, Missus Dean knew many Dallas policemen because they had come into her store
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in the past and they knew her well. She did not get She never
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did given out a David because she figured that if the police wanted to know
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any information, that they knew where to find her. Despite the insistence of
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her daughters, My sister and I clearly remember her saying that she picked it
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up since we kidded her about it for years. There is nothing in the
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contemporary record that he were remotely hints that missus Dean recovered the discarded jacket.
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On the other hand, Robert Brock's on camera statement to Robert McNeil is supported
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by his own subsequent statements, those of other police officers on the scene,
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and the recorded Dallas Police radio transmissions broadcast that day. So is miss Dean
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telling the truth or is she phibbin? Is she phibbin? Because there's a
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couple other people who claim to have found this jacket as well. A lot
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yeah yeah, three wheel motorcycle Officer Thomas Hudson testified to the Warrant Commission in
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sixty four that we were searching the rear of the house and the four hundred
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block of East Jefferson Boulevard at the rear of the Texico station, behind cars
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parked on a lot. On this location, a white jacket was picked up
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by another officer. I observed him as he picked it up, and it
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was stated that this was probably the suspect jacket. The original description was that
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he was wearing a white jacket and it looked like a white jacket to me.
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I didn't see it that close. I was about twenty five yards away
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from the officer who had picked it up. Captain Westbrook was there behind the
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house with us, and he was there at the time this was picked up
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by the man, But I don't know who had it in their hands first.
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The only time I saw it was when the officer had it. And
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In Gary Savage's nineteen ninety three book First Day Evidence, and an officer identified
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only as K told the story of finding the jacket. He says, we
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pulled up on Jefferson and started checking some cars behind the service station to see
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if the suspect was hiding in or under one of the cars. That's when
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we found this jacket. I saw Captain Westbrook in his car on Jefferson,
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so I turned the jacket over to him. It isn't easy to handle a
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motorcycle and hang on to a jacket. Officer K was described as another three
14:13
wheel motorcycle officer who was assigned to work traffic and the crowd along the Stemens
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Freeway and Industrial. A list of Dallas Police Motivate assignment shows three officers assigned
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to Stemmens Service Road at Industrial three wheel motorcycle officers John Mackie and W.
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E. Wilson, and Accident Prevention Bureau officer RJ. Coson with a K.
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So this might be our mysterious person who was designated as Officer K,
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who they didn't identify. So, according to this new information, here's what
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more than likely happened after JD. Tippat was shot. In light of this
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new information, so at one's sixteen okay and twenty seconds, Reynolds and his
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buddy Patterson trail Oswald and watch him duck behind his second hand furniture store at
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four one three East Jefferson. After a few minutes, they are convinced that
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he's gone inside. At one eighteen and thirty eight seconds, Reynolds leaves the
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area, crossing in front of the ambulance dispatched to the shooting scene. Reynolds
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follows them on foot, and Patterson remains behind on Jefferson to make sure Oswald
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doesn't leave the area. At one nineteen missus Doty Dean, Dotty Dean,
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whatever her name is, of Dean's Dairy Way, four nine East Jefferson.
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Here's the commotion next door, the sounds of someone trying to break in,
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then sees Oswald walk past her store heading west on Jefferson as he starts to
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take off his jacket and throw it on the tire rack, according to her.
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One nineteen thirty person leaves Jefferson Boulevard and heads towards tenth and Patten to
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report that Oswald has fled the area and discarded his jacket in the process.
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At one twenty and twenty nine seconds, an unidentified person telephones police to inform
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them that the suspect just passed Blues Texaco service Station at four to one East
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Jefferson Boulevard. At one twenty one in twenty nine seconds, Channel one police
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radio dispatcher informs officers that the suspect just passed four to oh one East Jefferson
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the address of Blues Texaco service station. Excuse me. At one twenty two
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and thirty eight seconds, tenthon Patten. Reynolds provides Officer Walker with the first
16:45
broadcast description of the Tippet gunman at one twenty two and thirty eight seconds.
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Oh, I've just said that one. At one twenty three PM, Officers
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Owens, Gerald Hill, and Assistant DA Bill Alexander arrives the shooting scene.
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An individual, possibly Patterson, informs Owens and Hill that the suspect discarded his
17:04
jacket in the parking lot at four hundred block of East Jefferson at WFAATV cameraman
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Ron Reeland and radio reporter Vick Robertson and Dallas Morning News reporter Hugh Anisworth arrive
17:18
at the shooting scene. Reynolds tells Reeland that the suspect ran into an old
17:22
building down the street, and at one twenty four and thirty seconds, Officers
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Owens, Hill and Assistant DA Alexander converge on the two secondhand furniture stores at
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four one three and four one seven East Jefferson and began searching them. Reeland
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begins filming, and Reynolds and Patterson approached the brox at the Texaco service station
17:44
and asked if they saw a white man past them. When the Brocks tell
17:48
them that he was seen going into the parking lot behind the station. Reynolds
17:52
and Patterson informed the Bronx that the white male probably shot a police officer two
17:56
blocks away. Captain Westbrook, who is just arrived from the schoolook Depository,
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leaves a cabal of police into the parking lot behind the service station. Reynolds,
18:07
Patterson, and Brock joined them. A discarded jacket is discovered by police
18:11
leaning under the car in the parking lot behind the Texaco service station. At
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one and forty two seconds, Officer J. T. Griffin radio is the
18:21
discovery of a jacket in the parking lot behind the Texico station. Reynolds is
18:25
convinced that the gunman is still in the area. Police intensify their search of
18:30
the two secondhand stores, but turn up nothing. Thanks Warren Reynolds for wasting
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a whole lot of everybody's time. So interesting thing about mister Warren Reynolds is
18:45
that, of course, after all this hullabaloo and his warrent commissioned testimony,
18:51
he just kind of fades into obscurity, you know, he kind of distances
18:56
himself from the far right. But he was tracked down by our old friends
19:02
at the House Select Committee on Assassinations in nineteen and seventy seven November twenty second,
19:08
to be exact. He is living now in Dallas, Texas, on
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Lancaster Road. Summary of contact report Joe on November the eleventh, nineteen and
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seventy seven, at about sixteen forty hours. That's four forty for you,
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maybe mathing at home. The undersigned investigators contacted the subject via telephone, which
19:41
had been necessated. If that's a word, I'm merely reading it only after
19:48
a personal visit to his quote used car lot met with negative results. After
19:55
identifying ourselves, mister Reynolds persisted and ascertaining why we wanted to talk to him,
20:00
stating maybe I can save you a trip. He was informed that we
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wanted to talk to him concerning the occurrences in connection with President Kennedy's assassination.
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Mister Reynolds then stated, I'm not interested. I don't want to talk to
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you. I have nothing to say. He then terminated the conversation that means
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he hung up on them. Joe Yes recommended follow up of any further contact
20:30
in person to allay any fears that he might have concerning this investigation. Signature
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you'll love this one. Joe Martin, Jay Daily, Ah, another Martin.
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Huh, there's another j Martin. We missed it an HNCA investigator.
20:52
Oh wow, darn it, well, gosh, darn it. That's why
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we pay attention to these things. And the list is growing right, Yeah,
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and I got I got one more fun thing to do, but we'll
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save that for after your little segment. My friend. It's just gonna be
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a nice little fun exercise for us and the listeners to go through and kind
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of poke fun at their low nutters a little bit. You know. Okay,
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that sounds pretty fun. So now let's go to Cuba to the Tray
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Corners prison, to the Tricornia Detention Center in Cuba, in Cuban. That
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means three corners, folks, for y'all keeping track at home. I think
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yes. And it was a very popular spot for a lot of the characters
21:55
that we study, and a lot of this has been covered in Thank You
22:02
Scott in previous episodes. But I'm just gonna do a little run through because
22:07
we've had a little we've had a lot of new subscribers, so let me
22:12
do this. So this is the picture of the doc at Tris Cornea,
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which was the prison that held Santo Trafficante Junior, Lauren Hall, John Martino,
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Bernardo de Torres, Jake Lanski who is Meyer Lanski's brother, Dino Selini,
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and a long other list of characters. That's gotta be the shittiest prison
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I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, I think I think that was
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the point, and this little lax here wise I'm just saying, well,
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yeah, it'll I'll talk about some of that, But it was for some
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people, it wasn't for other someone like John Martino who was in a Cuban
23:03
prisons for forty months compared to someone like Santo Trafficante Junior who was in Cuban
23:12
prisons for two months. And Louis McWillie, one of our Martins, was
23:22
working in nineteen fifty nine in the Tropicana casino, which was pretty much the
23:32
last kind of operating casino that Castro didn't take over. So when I was
23:38
thinking about this, I was like, why are people like Santo Trafficante and
23:45
Meyer Lanski's brother and other major players being detained. Most of this happened in
23:56
July of nineteen fifty nine, and that is when Jack Ruby came to Havana
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to help out some of his friends. And I was doing a lot of
24:17
reading on this and apparently the Jewish mafia had a lot more money invested in
24:26
Cuba and the casinos than the Italians did. Meyer Lanski and maybe holding his
24:34
brother was some type of leverage negotiating point. But hey, you me some
24:45
money, we'll let him out, exactly right. And of course you have
24:51
the Santo Trafficante allegations that although he was involved in this CIA cashtro assassination plots,
25:03
was he really trying to do that or was something worked out? As
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Lauren Hall famously said, there's only two people left in this me and Santo,
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And as far as we're concerned, we're not gonna say shit, and
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that's why we're gonna stay alive. And Central Traficanti Jr. Did live a
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long life, died of a heart attack and early to mid seventies. I
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believe Lauren Hall got a lot of good treatment post I'd say in the decades
25:47
after was treated nicely. And I'm gonna read some of his HSCA testimony,
25:55
which is just funny and it's been covered before on this podcast and on the
26:00
Dallas Action, but some parts I just found so funny. So before you
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do, Joe, you got a question here, Bud Okay, sorry,
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I'm not looking at the on the screen. Okay, was Hemming's there?
26:18
Do you think? Was he there in Cuba? No? I do not
26:26
believe so. No, was he in the prison? No, I don't
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believe so. Am I wrong wrong? No? Uh? He said so
26:37
much shit over the years. I don't know, but I know I know
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he wasn't there at the same time as any of these guys I did.
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I didn't overlap with Martino at some point. Yeah, I think Cuba periodically,
26:51
but I don't know about this prison in particular. Yes, I came
26:56
across nothing that I mean, that's aw him in the Cuban detention camp camp
27:06
we are discussing. But he was obviously anybody named him who's got to be
27:11
CIA or an asshole who never heard of him, never heard of him,
27:22
never heard of him. And I do think he stayed out of that mess.
27:27
And but that made me think, why would someone like Lewis mcwilliye be
27:37
able to not get rounded up in the you know, July and Summer of
27:45
fifty nine roundup of mobsters who are running casinos including a huge mafia boss,
27:53
obviously for leverage, but why was someone like mcwilley allowed to continue to work
28:00
there as he testified to the HCA throughout nineteen fifty nine. And I then
28:08
thought back to something I read about how the Jewish mafia was very was the
28:15
most invested in the Cuban casinos, more than the Italians. And maybe that's
28:25
one of the reasons why shortly why after mclouie McWillie, that's one invited Ruby
28:36
to Cuba traffic Conte was released within ten days after his arrival. And I'm
28:45
actually going to read a little bit from Larry Hancocks. Someone would have taught
28:53
a very small paragraph. Good old Larry, one of the best, if
29:00
not the best. Martina, who had been making a series of trips back
29:07
and forth between Miami and Havana, had been arrested in July and was in
29:12
prison in August. The year nineteen fifty nine was not the best of times
29:18
for someone in the casino associations making his first care free visit to Cuba.
29:25
Not sure if that was his first trip to Cuba, but there was a
29:29
good reason to look for something else behind Ruby's trip. Perhaps it was not
29:33
as simple as mcwilly throwing some tickets in the mail to Dallas. Well,
29:41
it seems to me, Joe that you know, Lewis mcwilly is kind of
29:44
like the Jewish version of what's his name for the Italians mafia, handsome Johnny
29:53
Versilli. Okay, like he's the Jewish version of Johnny Versilli. He's a
29:59
fixer, things done. He kind of works both sides of the fence,
30:03
you know, helping Castro out probably and helping himself out making things happen.
30:07
You know, that's probably how he evades a lot of this stuff. You
30:12
know, he's working both sides of the defense probably, be my guest.
30:15
Yeah, And a lot of people were working both sides of the fence the
30:19
obviously the CIA was a lot of the mercenaries were gun runners, you know,
30:27
they they support mcwilly was doing, of course, yes, one of
30:33
his top trades. And he goes on to say, to talk about a
30:47
lane. Here we go number two. Minere Miniere, who worked at a
30:53
car rental agency in Dallas Airport, which he had often seen Ruby McWillie travel
30:59
together before mcwilly moved to Havana. She told the FBI that in May of
31:04
fifty nine, she visited McWillie in Havana and carried a short coded message from
31:11
Ruby to mcwilly. Her story was found very credible by the HCA, which
31:17
concluded that Ruby was most likely serving as a courier to the gambling interests.
31:22
Do you know what his secret coded message was, Joe, I don't.
31:29
It was eat them. That was it. I'll eat all them Cuban girls
31:37
and stuff. That's I think Oswalt should have probably just said that at the
31:42
embassy if he was there. And uh, I probably like kosher hot dogs,
31:48
if you know what I'm saying. And the HCA also concluded that while
31:56
in Havana, Ruby had met with crime figures detained by the Cuban government.
32:02
Mcwilly himself had visited Santau trafficante jailed in Triscornia and testified, without prompting,
32:12
that Jack Ruby could have been out there with me or not. So when
32:16
the HCA asked him about this, he goes, ah, he could have
32:21
been with me. I'm not sure. Maybe maybe I think so, I'm
32:25
not sure, and just completely you know, leaves it open ended. And
32:31
that was the point. You know. The HSCA was obviously very mafia focused
32:38
right, and mcwilly just was able to somehow get himself not thrown in a
32:50
Cuban prison one of the few very good at dodging ring drops show yes,
32:57
and I'm not sure exactly why. So that's something to think about and for
33:00
me to kind of look into more. I'm going to continue here. I
33:05
have just one more short paragraph. Interestingly enough, Ruby's travel records show that
33:12
he entered Cuba from New Orleans on August eighth, nineteen fifty nine, left
33:19
Cuba on September eleventh, That would be a month in two days. Ish
33:25
re entered Cuba from Miami on September twelfth, and then left for New Orleans
33:30
on September thirteenth. Two trips to Cuba, not one. However, Dallas
33:37
Police bank records and FBI records show Ruby in Dallas on August tenth, twenty
33:44
first, thirty first, and September fourth, all in the middle of his
33:49
supposed Cuban vacation. In air quotes, was Ruby going out of Cuba illegally
33:57
as well as legally? Would say that, based on Hancock's description there of
34:06
his travel records, I would say probably yes. The HSCA concluded that if
34:12
all known records were reviewed, Ruby would have had to have made at least
34:16
three trips to Cuba, not one, as he claimed. How we accomplished
34:22
these extra trips is an open question, and again that's from someone would have
34:28
talked by the great author Larry Hancock. So in a very underrated superhero movie.
34:37
Yes, so I'm sorry, I got to be a black Manhattan man.
34:45
Well's it got to be a black one? Can't enjoy a white Manhattan?
34:51
Yeah, that's a callback to the last show right over your head,
34:57
over Joe's last time. Yes, completely, but that's awesome. I hope
35:01
you enjoy your black Manhattan, my friend, whatever that is. Yes,
35:07
that is too fancy for your boy. And I'm from Seattle. Is in
35:13
the house with the super chat Superwinter sticker or whatever it is? Thank you,
35:19
John, I always appreciated my friend. Yes, and now you're talking
35:30
Mexican to us? Averno? Is that? Is that? Is that Spanish
35:34
Joe for something? Or is it Italian? I'm not sure. Is it
35:43
a driver moved or a little white wine. I don't know, Scott,
35:50
what's in a black Manhattan and dumb it down for us like children's English?
36:04
Now, But Joe, I think you bring up a lot of good points
36:05
there with the with the prison and these cats that were staying in there.
36:09
Yeah, you know, I didn't mention David christ at all. Cia Asset,
36:16
Yeah he was. You know a lot of these characters that come into
36:22
the narrative of the Kennedy assassination, you know, they weave in, they
36:28
weave out, and you know, yeah, I just put up a slide
36:36
on the left as John Martino. To the right of him is Santa traffic
36:42
Conte Junior in his older age. Uh. Here is Lauren Hall, which
36:46
might not be a mobster but more of a mercenary. And to the right
36:52
is Jake Lanski, the brother of Meyer Lanski. So you can both Joe
37:00
balls now because apparently Aver is an Italian liquor Joe and you didn't know that.
37:05
Oh well, send us a bottle, and I have some more stuff
37:14
on Ruby and mcwilly in Cuba. I kind of touched on already. I
37:19
just wanted to Uncle Dave. Hi, Uncle Dave. He says. Lanski
37:30
stayed in Cuba to avoid the DOJ stateside and keep away from the inter seen
37:36
Mafia family squabbles in New York. Selini ran Lanski's casino interests in Cuba,
37:43
So there you go. That could be very possible. So essentially, Santoo
37:50
Traffic Conte is arrested in prison in Cuba around juneath. Disregard sixty two and
37:58
put fifty nine in there, so I'm sorry about that. John Martina was
38:04
arrested shortly after and was jailed for forty months as opposed to two months for
38:09
Santa Traffic. Conte Ruby enters Cuba on August eighth, nineteen fifty nine,
38:15
not sixty two, and his tickets and expenses were paid by McWillie on August
38:24
eighteenth, So you're talking ten days after Santo Traffic Conti is released from Triscorneia
38:30
to attend his daughter's wedding. Very nice, huh. I wonder if some
38:35
type of deal was worked out August tenth, twenty first, and thirty first
38:39
and September fourth. I didn't add on here. Dpd have files, bank
38:44
records, other things of him being in Dallas implicates that he had gone back
38:50
and forth, especially this last part where he leaves Cuba on September eleventh,
38:57
comes back the next day on September twelfth, and then leaves for Cuba again,
39:01
so it seems like he had some type of mission or operation that he
39:07
was taking part in. You know, we all know about the Hoover memo
39:15
about jeeps and Cuba and and using Oswalt's name, so and castro personal gun
39:29
runner McCown who Ruby allegedly went and visited, Yeah, try to get a
39:35
letter from Yeah, and then uh who os walmasa tried to go buy guns
39:42
from from like for like one hundred dollars in that and yeah in today's how
39:49
about four rifles for you from ten thousand dollars apiece? Yeah, it was.
39:53
It was that much when he could have gone into a local store and
39:59
or set in the garage and ordered his own and it's it's it's very fascinating.
40:08
But I think a lot of the character characters that were imprisoned by a
40:15
castro had a huge vested interest after they realized, oh shit, this castro
40:25
wasn't good for us to overthrow him. And it's my personal belief that the
40:36
goal of the plotters was to prompt an invasion of Cuba. My working theory,
40:44
I'm not set on available to any new information and open minded. I
40:52
don't pretend to know what happened in this case. But that's the way I'm
40:59
leaning. Scott asked, why did we even come back the next day?
41:01
I'll tell you, Scott, it's either for women, money or drugs or
41:08
guns. Get some more and take them back. I take money and probably
41:16
or it could be more than one of your It could be like B and
41:22
C. Right, it could be money and girls. So yep. I
41:25
believe Phillips wasn't in Cuba at that time as well. Yeah, yep,
41:30
but there were no shortage of Q girls in Cuba at that time. So
41:35
yes, Scotty might have needed some hot sauce. Unfortunately, so said,
41:38
he was not around in nineteen fifty nine, so it would have had to
41:45
be you know, Santo's Secret sauce or something Sicilians Secret super sexy sauce nineteen
41:54
fifty all right, you want to bust some loan nutters balls? Yes,
42:02
I would love to. All right. I have here some things from Dale
42:08
Myers, who I talked about earlier, but that I found on his website
42:15
and I'm reading through Him'm like, are you kidding me? So? This
42:17
is what he says proves Oswald's consciousness of guilt. Okay, are you ready
42:25
for this. Yes, sir number one that Oswald lied repeatedly during his interrogation,
42:35
which betrayed his consciousness of guilt. Now, I don't think that's really
42:42
off statement. I mean, he did lie a little bit, but he
42:46
also told a lot of the truth about his past and going to Russia and
42:52
this, that and the other. You know, yeah, I I you
42:58
know, you uploaded some thing earlier on the Longama channel the body language experts
43:07
talking about Oswald. Yes, interesting stuff, very interesting, and they talked
43:14
about his smugness and it's almost like his request for legal assistance was a veiled
43:29
type of code say I need to be you know, bailed out of this,
43:37
and he repeated it a couple of times, and it's just very interesting.
43:45
I wasn't one hundred percent on with their reaction to him when they said
43:52
that he had been charged with the president, and I mean I saw his
43:55
face and I could envision it right now, and it was disbelief and oh,
44:02
you know, yeah, like this is I'm not going to get help
44:07
here. Like I don't see his actions in his state of emotion why he's
44:13
in custody as any kind of smugness or defiance. I think it's more.
44:19
I mean, you gotta put yourself in his shoes if he if he is
44:22
innocent of killing the president and J. D. Tippett, you know,
44:29
he definitely has to realize at that point that he has been set up by
44:35
somebody to take the fall for this, and it looks like it is going
44:38
to happen. I mean, it's him against the world at that point,
44:43
him against the entire police department. What can you say? I mean,
44:46
at that point, what can you say? I mean, you can scream
44:50
your innocent to the you know, the roof flies off the building. But
44:54
you know, he doesn't seem to type to h unnecessarily waste energy like that.
45:04
You know. Yeah, he gets fired up at some points, you
45:06
know, when they're shuffling through the halls and stuff like that. But that's
45:10
desperation, you know. I don't know. So another point he makes here
45:16
and after after probably like eight or ten hours of interrogation, right, yeah,
45:23
probably more than that. Right, what was it at midnight press conference?
45:28
So he what he came in and around what tush? Yeah, so
45:34
he's ten hours in at that point. Yeah, and you know they didn't
45:37
let him sleep much. If he could sleep, maybe they were blasting the
45:43
uh, the hard rock, like they would do to make sure the terrorists
45:49
don't sleep when they were interrogating them. I don't think there was much hard
45:52
rock around back in nineteen sixty three. But uh, that's a good point.
45:55
Yeah, yeah. Oswald did not purchasing or even owning the Manli car
46:01
Carcano rifle found on the sixth floor. Documents in Oswald's own handwriting prove he
46:07
ordered the rifle and had it mailed to his Dallas Post office box. Uh,
46:15
you know that's not a lie. I mean it was ordered in a
46:17
high deel's name, and I don't know, I can't remember if it was
46:22
the rifle or the handgun that was supposedly printed by Marina not him. And
46:30
there's a lot of problems with his Dallas Post office box and somebody picking it
46:37
up in that a high del name without any identification or proof that it was
46:43
ever picked up by anybody. So yeah, there's problems there. Oswald denied
46:47
that the backyard photograph of him ordering the rifle was in fact him. He
46:52
claimed it was his face superimposed on another man's body. Scientific examination later proved
46:57
the photographs were genuine and unaltered. I don't know about that. There's a
47:04
lot of scuttle butt, you know, about the fact that Oswald knew how
47:12
to do this from working, you know, with a lot of photography from
47:15
when he's working at Jagger's child stoveall. And there are problems with the photo.
47:22
No matter what experts you want to put up there and say it's authentic,
47:27
it hasn't been altered. Okay, go study shadows and you know,
47:32
I mean people have even looked at like when when the bushes were blooming,
47:37
you know what I mean. So there's problem. Yeah, Rob, we
47:42
have a comment I want to address. Well, put it up on the
47:45
screen. Joe Phillips was in Cuba then, I think I'm not sure when,
47:52
but David Attlee Phillips's cover was blown in Cuba at some point and he
48:00
was taken out of there. He was not part of the Stay Behind team
48:07
like you know, Tony Spza or other real hardcore people. And in terms
48:15
of nineteen fifty nine, I'm not one hundred percent sure. But Scott says
48:22
apparently he couldn't buy a gun in Texas. That is not true, Scott.
48:25
Uh, you definitely buy guns in Texas, you know, Yeah,
48:30
definitely like they sold him at like the local bodega, probably like the Walmart
48:37
of the day, you know what I mean, Like you didn't have to
48:39
do the fancy sporting goods guns, the Dick's sporting goods of the day.
48:45
He could definitely get him at a pawn shops back then. You know.
48:47
I remember that guy Warren Caster, he had just bought two rifles from some
48:52
sports shop down there and brought him into the school book depository the day before
48:57
the assassination to show Roy truly and showing them everybody else. So yeah,
49:01
you can definitely buy guns back then in Texas for sure. And one more
49:09
before you continue, Who's saying Ruby was in Dallas when he was in Cuba
49:15
and why? And I source that from someone would have talked that is Larry
49:22
Hancock's book and that was a small section. There are travel records that confirm
49:30
that he was going back and forth. And I think in the last episode,
49:37
Rob and I talked about reading books is different than research. But if
49:42
you read books from certain researchers that you know only primary do primary source documents
49:50
that go off that you can get a pretty good idea and of that,
49:58
and I don't doubt it for a minute, and there are documents that I
50:02
found that correlated with that. Why buy it through mail to make a trail,
50:15
to make a paper trail, you're muted, rob, Oh my dumb
50:27
ass is immuted. Now it's okay, yes, thank you, But yeah,
50:32
why buy it through the mail paper trail? Yep, for sure got
50:37
to have that paper trail. We're gonna set somebody up for this stuff.
50:43
Next is Oswald denied telling Buell Frasier that he went to Irving the night of
50:49
twenty first to get curtain rized. He denied putting a long package in the
50:53
back of Fraser's car, and he denied carrying a long package into the depository.
50:59
No curtain rods were found in the depository. Actually, there were curtain
51:06
rods found in the depository. They are in evidence at the Texas Portal of
51:10
the History you can see them. But he denied putting a long package in
51:17
the back of Fraser's car, and denied carrying a long package in the depository.
51:22
Well, Fraser himself pretty much backs this up by saying it wasn't a
51:24
long package. It was basically two feet long to twenty eight inches, so
51:30
twenty four to twenty eight inch package is not that long, and it's definitely
51:34
not a rifle, not even broken down. A broken down concado is at
51:39
least what thirty four or thirty six inches, even if you take take it
51:45
apart. And his sister also back them up in that fact as well,
51:52
saying that she didn't see anything him carrying anything. No, she said she
51:55
saw him carry a package and put in the back of Bule's car, but
52:00
she didn't say she couldn't really estimate how long it was, but Buell got
52:05
a better look at the package. But again, there's problems with all of
52:10
this stuff and what Buell says and everything else. So who knows. Yeah,
52:15
he's not a reliable witness, as evidenced by his last book. And
52:22
I know you are an expert on him, and you've done a lot of
52:24
work on him, and you can go back and look into the liar.
52:30
You could go back and look into the long episodes that Rob has addressed Buell,
52:37
Wesley Frasier, and it's pretty conclusive. Oswald claimed he was having lunch
52:45
with James Junior Jarman on the first floor at the time of the shots.
52:50
Jarman testified later that he ate that he had ate alone. Again, I
52:57
wouldn't put much faith and trust in to what the black workers at the Schoolook
53:02
Depository had to say about things that they were very hesitant and reluctant to say
53:09
anything that would let alone tie them anywhere near this guy. Okay, there's
53:17
a lot of problems with all of their stories. Yeah, so you have
53:22
you have to think of of how African Americans were treated, especially in the
53:29
Deep South in Texas in the sixties and very easily could have been leveraged and
53:40
intimidated and threatened, and in almost every way it would have been cake for
53:49
an intelligence service to do that to a factory worker, a black factory worker
53:58
in the sixties. Yeah, wanted nothing to do with it. And one
54:04
last thing here, Joe Oswald denied having any knowledge of the name A Hidel,
54:08
the name used to order the weapons used to murder President Kennedy and Dallas
54:13
patrolman JD. Tibbett, despite the fact that when he was arrested, his
54:16
wallet contained a false selective service and the identification card in the name of Alec
54:22
James Hidel, which featured Oswald's photograph on it, when it wasn't even supposed
54:27
to have a photograph on it. US postal records showed that Oswald had authorized
54:31
to Ajhidel to receive mail in his post office box in New Orleans, but
54:37
not Dallas, filling in the Hodel name in his own handwriting. When confronted
54:43
with the form on Sunday, November twenty fourth, Oswald denied any knowledge of
54:47
the contents of the form or any explanation of why he would put the name
54:51
aji Hidel, which he claimed to have no knowledge about, on the post
54:55
office form. So did Oswald lie about that? Maybe unless he was totally
55:07
being set up using this false name aj Hidel. You know, if you're
55:14
going to set somebody up take the fall for an assassination on the president,
55:19
you're going to have to tie that person somehow to a rifle or like I've
55:24
always said, Joe, you know, if Oswald was part of the plot,
55:34
and I don't mean that he was on the sixth floor shooting, okay,
55:37
but if his part of the plot was to get this rifle in that
55:42
building on the sixth floor that day, and that's it, and he was
55:47
told, look, this rifle is registered to some Cuban guy named at aj
55:54
Hidel, it can't ever be tied back to you don't worry about a thing.
56:00
You know, it'll be blamed on Cuba off. You know, we've
56:04
got this whole thing. You know, he's a pro Castro guy, he's
56:07
you know, a Communist, Marxist, whatever, and it'll look like he
56:13
was trying to kill Kennedy or did kill Kennedy, and then we'll finally be
56:17
able to attack Castro and put Cuba down for good, once and for all.
56:24
And he could be motivated in that way to be a part of the
56:29
plot. That's definitely plausible. And you know, the whole aspect of him
56:37
having that ID on him in his wallet allegedly literally links him to the murder
56:47
weapon. So that's not operationally smart. Nor is it operationally smart to not
56:54
bring your handgun and to go back and get it if you believe that official
57:00
story and none of it makes sense. Nor would you bring the gun in
57:07
the morning of It would seem like the worst time to bring a gun into
57:15
the building. At least bring it in earlier in the week or I remember
57:20
one of my favorite episodes, Rob, that you had with the guests,
57:22
and I forget his name, I'm sorry, it was of Acme Building Management
57:28
and the guests went into a deep dive. And how this management company had
57:31
full access to the TSPD all night. They were the cleaning crews. So
57:38
yeah, but look, this is building, Okay, it was old,
57:43
big, you know, I highly doubt it was that secure. You know
57:51
what I mean. You could easily climb up on the catwalk, you know,
57:54
the fire escape. Jack Doherty had keys and Jimmy and probably Jimmy a
58:01
window open, you know what I mean to get into this building. I
58:06
mean you got to remember this is nineteen sixty three, folks, when security
58:09
is very lax. People didn't lock their doors, they didn't lock their cars,
58:14
no cameras, no CCTV. You know, and this place was not
58:20
locked down like Fort Knox. I mean they had books in it. Okay.
58:22
You know how many criminals are gonna break into a building and steal books?
58:27
Not many, you know, So you know, I highly doubt the
58:31
security of this building was was very was very important. Too many people and
58:37
like you said, Joe, you know a lot of people had keys of
58:39
this building. The ACME cleaning company, the elevator company, Jack Doherty,
58:46
yeah, the Dullard and I don't see like you know, a big cleaning
58:52
crew coming into the school book depository every night to clean it. I mean
58:55
this shithole had plywood floors. Yeah, I mean probably you know, probably
59:01
once a week. Yeah, I mean this wasn't happening every day, no,
59:07
no way, right, But there were a lot of people that had
59:10
access to your point and was not the most secure building. The Secret Service
59:15
didn't secure that building the windows. And yeah, it's uh, it's something
59:29
we might not ever know. But fair Church weasel when he was a kid,
59:36
was the weasel that has the wheeze that says I think he says a
59:42
lot about him. Yeah, I did not know that. Uh. And
59:45
Fraser wore moccasins. I think that means a lot about a person too.
59:52
I mean he was only what like nineteen twenty during that time, Like he
59:58
was young, right, And obviously a lot of people familiar with the case
1:00:05
will know about how he was picked up in the middle of the night,
1:00:10
re picked up interview twice. You're you're the expert on that, but they
1:00:15
definitely intimidated him as well to get Yeah, social outcast. I was thinking,
1:00:22
you said two, I was thinking, and Scott comment in three wallets.
1:00:25
Yeah, I thought he had one in his pocket. One was found
1:00:30
at the tipp And murder scene, and he's supposedly left with wallet, you
1:00:32
know, at at Marina's pad or Payne's pad with Marina. Yeah, so
1:00:38
yeah, most people don't have two wallets, let alone three wallets, especially
1:00:45
somebody with no f and money. Ever, I mean, unless you had
1:00:52
three different you know, you had one wallet with a high Dell identity,
1:00:55
and you had one wallet with a Lee Harvey Oswalt identity, and you had
1:01:00
another wallet with a Harvey Leo's Wild identity, you know, whatever the case
1:01:06
may be. Yeah, which is possible. Yeah, but things did not
1:01:10
go right. They did not go according to plan. And that's maybe hung
1:01:19
about the window. Butt first, bungled and botched butt hoole first, right
1:01:24
out the window. So rob, let's let's wrap this up. Let's why
1:01:32
don't you give a little tease about quick Hits this weekend and then I'll talk
1:01:37
about next week. Yes, folks, once again, thanks for joining us.
1:01:45
Links to join our locals community are down in the description. We are
1:01:50
halfway to our goal of fifty over there, so we can actually start doing
1:01:53
some things over there. So if you haven't already signed up. You can
1:01:58
it's free, or you can choose to be motherly supporters. Totally up to
1:02:00
you and we love you either way. Yest me stop you there, I'm
1:02:06
sorry, Yes, Uh, Jack Taylor, Scott Edwards and whoever else gave
1:02:15
us. John gave us a super chat. Send your email to the Lone
1:02:21
Gunman Podcast at gmail dot com. I bought supporter John's already supporter. Okay,
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I have bought a few coins and og supporter. I appreciate that,
1:02:34
and uh and Colonel reb as well, who who who isn't here? Send
1:02:40
an email to the Lone Gunman Podcast. I will gift you guys some memberships.
1:02:45
I bought some coins studied by everybody some memberships. They're doing this well.
1:02:50
I said, the best comment of the night gets a free membership of
1:02:54
every show. So I'll let you decide what was the best comment of the
1:03:02
show and who deserves the free membership. I think I know who you're gonna
1:03:07
pick. It might start with the Sea, Oh Joseph of Joseph Joseph.
1:03:16
I don't know. I'm gonna have to go back and check because there was
1:03:21
a lot of good ones. Yes, actually, I'm gonna say Scott Edwards
1:03:27
and his Black man hat I did. I did his enjoyment out of the
1:03:30
Black Manhattan comment. I mean, what's better than knowing that he's sitting there,
1:03:35
chilling, watching the show, sipping on a drink, you know,
1:03:39
just loving life, hanging out with the boys for an evening. Yes,
1:03:46
and and he has signed Curtain Rise from Buell Frasier. What's cooler than that?
1:03:52
Yes? And he helped clear up the Verano being an Italian liquor,
1:03:58
which I probably should have known, but I've only been there once. Well,
1:04:01
I'm gonna have to pick a different one because Scott said he joined last
1:04:04
week. He said he thought it was like OnlyFans, which thankfully was not
1:04:10
WI is true, very true. You would have been very disappointed, Scott,
1:04:15
fans would be that successful. But yes, I you can go watch
1:04:21
Being Joe sixty nine each other for a small fee of five dollars a month.
1:04:30
Don't worry, Joe. We're like three states away from each other.
1:04:32
No comment, but we do have some interesting things coming up in the next
1:04:39
week. This is going to be quick hits weekend and hold on, Joe,
1:04:45
I'm not done with the comments. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry,
1:04:47
sorry, you jump in a head, sir, Sorry, so again,
1:04:50
the link for locals is in the description. If you would like some
1:04:54
cops, some cool merch like this hat here that your boy is wearing and
1:04:58
the sweatshirt that Joe wearing, the link is in the description as well.
1:05:03
And if you love yourself some hot sauce like we love our hot sauce,
1:05:12
go get yourself some damn Silk City baby, Silk City hot sauce. Folks.
1:05:19
It is delicious, It is very reasonable, and you can enter the
1:05:24
code Gunman at checkout for twenty percent off your entire order. Hell of a
1:05:29
deal. Hell of a deal. And on Valentine's Day, Joe, did
1:05:36
you know that next week, on Valentine's Day, everything in our merch store
1:05:43
is twenty two percent off. I did not know that. Twenty two Yeah,
1:05:50
and then the weekend after that is everything is free shipping. So yeah,
1:05:57
if you've been putting it off and waiting for a good time to buy
1:06:00
next Valentine's Day, treat yourself to some sweet merch and hot sauce. Baby,
1:06:10
Yes, and I'll go ahead, Joe, feel free to plug away
1:06:14
because we got some big things coming up this weekend. Uh. Yes,
1:06:20
I'll be recording. I'll be recording quick Hits tomorrow with Doug and it will
1:06:25
probably drop Sunday morning more than likely, So be looking out for that.
1:06:31
And I believe Joe has his first ever appearance coming up soon. Tell everybody
1:06:39
about that Joe Well non lone gunman appearance and that will be on the Olly
1:06:45
Effect. I am letting them off the plantation for a couple of minutes on
1:06:51
their JFK Myth series with mister Mike. Sweet've done that before, you have,
1:07:00
sir, which is actually signed up for their for their daily emails and
1:07:11
as the finance guy, I love it. And uh who was one of
1:07:16
my early We love car and hope to have him. Yes, people I
1:07:27
looked up to just because his his no bullshit, straight document based approach and
1:07:35
the early episodes I listened to on the Loan Gunmen with Rob and Carmine were
1:07:44
some of my favorite. And I'm very excited to be there. And it's
1:07:49
fitting because you know we're going to talk about dumb and dumber and as you
1:07:59
might touch on quickets and as we might touch on again on the o'celly effect,
1:08:08
and we will expose the frauds for who they for what they are?
1:08:15
Hang on, Joe, hang on, hang on, I gotta hear this
1:08:16
one more time. Hold on, I've got to hear this one. I
1:08:20
know, just one more time. I know where you're going. Huh,
1:08:25
love it? Play it? Hey there, this is Mark Ruber along with
1:08:29
my girlfriend Derek Kuntley from America's Really Old Stories. You are about to hear
1:08:33
the most listened to exclusively jfk Assassination podcast and one of my favorites, the
1:08:39
Lone Gunman podcast. Now Here's Rob and Joe. That is classic. I
1:08:45
love that. Yeah, and they were really kind to do that sound bye
1:08:50
for us. We really appreciate it. Yes, they they they are stand
1:08:58
up, stand up guys, as as the Mafia says, stand up guy,
1:09:02
one, stands up one needls. It's all good baby. Ye.
1:09:09
All right, folks, that's it for this week. Tune in again next
1:09:13
week for another exciting show for episode number two hundred and seventy five, which
1:09:16
we don't know what the hell we're gonna talk about yet, but we'll let
1:09:18
you know when we do so that you can get notified when we go live
1:09:25
next week. So we're handsome. Joe Brelli, Joey Scars joby up in
1:09:32
canetti, hunt and rob Your boy here in Virginia, Virginia, he says,
1:09:42
your boy, Big Bad Bob and Joey b Scars Berelli until next time
1:09:54
see letter. Guys. It's like the red hot Chili pepper things back in
1:10:36
ninety two video all Right, Peax people,