Latest / Podcast on the Brink / POTB 522: The Darian DeVries era is underway with Tony Adragna

Transcript

POTB 522: The Darian DeVries era is underway with Tony Adragna · Podcast on the Brink

0:17
Speaker 1: Welcome back to a new episode of Podcasts on the
0:20
Speaker 1: Brink Friday, March twenty eight, ten days now into the
0:25
Speaker 1: Darren Devrees era in Bloomington. Not a whole lot of
0:29
Speaker 1: news in terms of roster editions out there yet, but
0:33
Speaker 1: we're going to dig into some of the just the
0:37
Speaker 1: topics that people are most interested in right now as
0:40
Speaker 1: it pertains tou basketball with our guests today, Tony Dronia.
0:43
Speaker 1: Before we get to Tony, I wanted to take a
0:46
Speaker 1: moment and remind you that Podcasts on the Brink brought
0:49
Speaker 1: to you by our good friends at Visit Bloomington. Visit
0:51
Speaker 1: Bloomington as a proud partner of Podcasts on the Brink
0:54
Speaker 1: and any university athletics. March Madness is officially kicked off.
0:59
Speaker 1: In spring is about to begin. Catch the NCAA Men's
1:03
Speaker 1: and women's tournaments while enjoying some award winning wings at Buffalois,
1:07
Speaker 1: go paddleboarding on Lake Lemon, or experience one of the
1:10
Speaker 1: mini spring festivals in Bloomington, like the Cosmic Songwriter Festival
1:15
Speaker 1: and Grand Faaloon. Order your freeki visitor guide and plan
1:19
Speaker 1: your Spring getaway at visit Bloomington dot com. Was actually
1:24
Speaker 1: in Bloomington last week for the press conference. Quieter than
1:28
Speaker 1: usual with spring break. I was alarming how little traffic
1:33
Speaker 1: there is when the students are away for break. But
1:37
Speaker 1: it's actually nice, and I know now why I chronic.
1:41
Speaker 1: Kuser loves his his b town summers on Kirkwood, low
1:45
Speaker 1: crowds and a chance to get out and enjoy the city.
1:48
Speaker 1: But Tony, welcome back to podcast on the Brink. It's
1:51
Speaker 1: been a while since we talked. Obviously a lot has
1:55
Speaker 1: changed with the Indiana program. It was a longer than
2:00
Speaker 1: usual coaching search, just based on the circumstances of everything
2:04
Speaker 1: that went down. I think there was a time where
2:09
Speaker 1: people started to get a little bit antsy in terms
2:12
Speaker 1: of news, and obviously the search itself was kept pretty
2:17
Speaker 1: buttoned up. Just what were your immediate reaction when Indiana
2:21
Speaker 1: arrived where it did with coach Derees and that higher.
2:26
Speaker 1: Obviously there were some twists and turns, different names that
2:28
Speaker 1: were thrown about. But I think the one thing that
2:31
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to is that really nobody knew
2:34
Speaker 1: anything the whole time. I mean, obviously there was some speculation.
2:36
Speaker 1: I know, there was agents and things getting information out
2:39
Speaker 1: to certain people, and a lot of chatter in the background,
2:41
Speaker 1: but Indiana ran a pretty buttoned up process. So I'm
2:44
Speaker 1: just kind of curious how you received the news obviously
2:48
Speaker 1: that there was a new coach and who they landed on.
2:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think first of all, love love coming on
2:55
Speaker 2: the podcast, appreciate you having me on again. Now it's
2:57
Speaker 2: you know, the one thing that I I've talked to people
3:00
Speaker 2: about is that it is very apparent that Scott Dolson
3:04
Speaker 2: will run very buttoned up searches because you know, you
3:08
Speaker 2: look at the football search with Sig as well, like
3:12
Speaker 2: Sig wasn't really on the radar until the day that
3:14
Speaker 2: he was hired or his at least announced hiring. Same
3:19
Speaker 2: with Devrees, you know, really was kind of one of
3:21
Speaker 2: those candidates that was seemingly in the background, like he
3:24
Speaker 2: was on some hot boards and things, but never really
3:26
Speaker 2: was the guy that people thought was going to take
3:31
Speaker 2: over the Indiana program. So, you know, hats off to
3:34
Speaker 2: Scott Dolson of really keeping these things buttoned up. And
3:38
Speaker 2: you know that's hard to do. Uh, Like you said,
3:41
Speaker 2: there's agents talking, there's people talking, there's seemingly a lot
3:44
Speaker 2: of people involved in these types of hires, and to
3:48
Speaker 2: keep everything so quiet essentially until they started leaking out
3:52
Speaker 2: the night before. But you know, even then it was
3:56
Speaker 2: like is this real or is it not? Because you
3:58
Speaker 2: just didn't know what was real in this search. So
4:01
Speaker 2: you know, I got to tip my cap to to
4:03
Speaker 2: Scott Dolson and the seemingly very few people that were
4:06
Speaker 2: actually involved in this thing and and really keeping keeping
4:09
Speaker 2: things buttoned up, and to me as a coach, like
4:14
Speaker 2: that gives you a lot of confidence in your bosses, right,
4:18
Speaker 2: Like you know, you're trying to keep those things under
4:20
Speaker 2: wraps as best you can, and by not getting those
4:24
Speaker 2: things leaked out there like to me that that would
4:26
Speaker 2: make me feel good as a coach coming into a
4:29
Speaker 2: new situation about the administration and the people that I'll
4:32
Speaker 2: be reporting to. So that was kind of my first
4:35
Speaker 2: reaction to things was like, dang, another job well done
4:38
Speaker 2: by Dolson and crew. And then it was really all right,
4:42
Speaker 2: let me dive into Devrez a little bit more because
4:45
Speaker 2: because he wasn't really on the radar a ton I
4:48
Speaker 2: didn't I didn't really see him being the eye you coach,
4:51
Speaker 2: not because he wasn't qualified, not because I didn't think
4:53
Speaker 2: he was a good coach. It was more so you know,
4:55
Speaker 2: there was a lot of other names that were kind
4:57
Speaker 2: of floating out there that that I was diving into.
4:59
Speaker 2: So my first reaction was like interesting, higher, you know,
5:02
Speaker 2: let's let's dive into the nuts and bolts of it
5:06
Speaker 2: and kind of figure out why. And so then I,
5:09
Speaker 2: you know, I dove into things pretty deeply.
5:11
Speaker 1: You know.
5:11
Speaker 2: I released my video kind of on on Darren Devrees
5:15
Speaker 2: and unfortunately I called him Darren DeVries in the video,
5:19
Speaker 2: which to you know people, let me know, I missed,
5:23
Speaker 2: to be.
5:23
Speaker 1: Fair, I didn't know how to say it either. I
5:25
Speaker 1: had to do some research as well.
5:27
Speaker 2: Then it was announced when the how I did my
5:30
Speaker 2: research was I went to his press conference of last
5:32
Speaker 2: year when he was announced as West Virginia's coach, and
5:34
Speaker 2: they announced him as Darren de Vriese. So that was
5:37
Speaker 2: that was where I had my my Uh.
5:42
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why I left after one year.
5:45
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, so I released that video and
5:47
Speaker 2: and that really convinced me. Okay, here's here's the why
5:51
Speaker 2: of what Scott Dolson saw. Obviously, he saw it at
5:54
Speaker 2: a much grander level because he was, you know, had
5:56
Speaker 2: a lot of people doing a lot of analysis for him.
5:58
Speaker 2: But you know, I dove into probably seven eight hours
6:01
Speaker 2: of clips on West Virginia, looking at numbers, things like that,
6:06
Speaker 2: and then when Scott Dolson got up there and talked
6:08
Speaker 2: later that day, he kind of reaffirmed some of those things,
6:11
Speaker 2: you know, cutting edge offensively, team really plays hard. This
6:15
Speaker 2: coach is just the ball coach like he you know,
6:17
Speaker 2: he just wants to grind. You know, they call him grinder,
6:20
Speaker 2: said of a different times. So to me, that was
6:22
Speaker 2: kind of my like twenty four hour reaction period of
6:27
Speaker 2: getting the news to like letting it soak in and
6:30
Speaker 2: figuring out, you know, the x's and o's of this
6:34
Speaker 2: and why Scott Dolson went this direction.
6:37
Speaker 1: So when you dug into the film and I've watched
6:39
Speaker 1: your breakdown and for those who haven't seen it, I
6:42
Speaker 1: think it's it's still pretty far up on your Twitter feed.
6:45
Speaker 1: If you go, I think you have to search back
6:47
Speaker 1: a little bit, but it's in there. What I mean,
6:50
Speaker 1: you look at this stuff pretty regularly from a just
6:53
Speaker 1: a film perspective, with what the stuff that you do
6:55
Speaker 1: with IU film room. What stood out just in terms
6:59
Speaker 1: of the stuff that he runs and what is maybe
7:03
Speaker 1: gonna be a big departure from what we've seen from
7:07
Speaker 1: Mike Woodson and Archie Miller.
7:09
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, I mean the biggest thing to me is
7:12
Speaker 2: how he spaces the floor like that's that's been one
7:14
Speaker 2: thing that's been lacking in the Indiana program to me
7:17
Speaker 2: is opening the floor up a little bit, opening up
7:20
Speaker 2: driving lanes, moving the ball side to side, you know
7:24
Speaker 2: a lot of ball movement, making the defense move and
7:26
Speaker 2: shift screens off the ball a lot. You know, that's
7:30
Speaker 2: that's not a lot something that we saw a lot
7:32
Speaker 2: with Archie and Mike Woodson. So to me, it's how
7:36
Speaker 2: he spaces the floor, opens the floor up, gives his
7:39
Speaker 2: people concepts. You know, they'll run sets and things like that,
7:42
Speaker 2: but a lot of it is just conceptual motion offense,
7:46
Speaker 2: teaching them, you know, where there's driving lanes, how to
7:49
Speaker 2: open up gaps in space for guys, and really just
7:52
Speaker 2: moving without the basketball and understanding how can I help
7:55
Speaker 2: the guy with the basketball with my gravity on the floor. So,
7:58
Speaker 2: to me, that'll be the biggest thing is you know
8:02
Speaker 2: a lot of five out or even four out, you know,
8:05
Speaker 2: four out, one in and using that big that's kind
8:08
Speaker 2: of the one in still like screening away not near
8:12
Speaker 2: the basket, you know, Indiana since Archie Miller has been
8:16
Speaker 2: in the ninetieth percentile or higher in terms of the
8:18
Speaker 2: percentage of post ups for eight straight years. Like it,
8:21
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's been post up basketball. That is
8:26
Speaker 2: not gonna be what we see with their in devrie Or.
8:27
Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if that's what we see with Daron
8:29
Speaker 2: Devreez West Virginia this past season. They're in the fifth
8:33
Speaker 2: percentile and percentage of post ups. And so that is
8:36
Speaker 2: going to be a start contrast for Indiana fans offensively,
8:40
Speaker 2: because you know, for eight years, it's been kind of
8:43
Speaker 2: inside of Juwan Morgan, kind of inside of Tracey Jackson
8:45
Speaker 2: Davis getting inside the Koloa ware and Malik Renew and
8:49
Speaker 2: Umar Balo, like you know, you go down the line,
8:52
Speaker 2: and that's been the focal point of Indiana's offense. And
8:55
Speaker 2: you know, I think as you watch these games in March,
8:58
Speaker 2: you see that guards are typically gonna win you games
9:01
Speaker 2: in March. In Indiana really hasn't had a team built
9:04
Speaker 2: for that, and that's the proofs in the putting in
9:06
Speaker 2: their results. So I think that is going to be
9:08
Speaker 2: a stark contrast from what we've seen in almost the
9:12
Speaker 2: last decade of Indiana basketball.
9:14
Speaker 1: I know we're very early in the process in terms
9:16
Speaker 1: of the portal, and people are I don't want to
9:20
Speaker 1: say impatient, but there's you know, I've heard from a
9:23
Speaker 1: lot of fans like when her name is gonna start
9:25
Speaker 1: popping up? But without that right now, we're kind of
9:29
Speaker 1: left to speculate. But I'm curious, from watching the amount
9:32
Speaker 1: of film that you have, what are the traits and
9:35
Speaker 1: a big man that would that Derees would want to
9:40
Speaker 1: bring into a program because we know it's not going
9:41
Speaker 1: to be a guy that they're going to throw the
9:43
Speaker 1: ball down into the post and like let him go
9:45
Speaker 1: to work. Is that like the five guys you mentioned?
9:47
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe not to the same extent Juwan Morgan
9:49
Speaker 1: because he was able to step out a little bit.
9:51
Speaker 1: But the other other names that you mentioned were all
9:53
Speaker 1: really back to the basket players what And I think
9:57
Speaker 1: there were some people who maybe thought, well, fresh start,
10:00
Speaker 1: maybe Malik Renew comes back, or you would like to
10:03
Speaker 1: have him back, And based on what you've described, it
10:07
Speaker 1: doesn't make doesn't make a ton of sense for him
10:09
Speaker 1: to come back based on this offense, because he's going
10:13
Speaker 1: to be a guy obviously that needs the ball and
10:14
Speaker 1: wants the ball on the post. And he's a great
10:17
Speaker 1: talented post scorer, but maybe not the best fit for
10:19
Speaker 1: this new system. But what what what is it that
10:22
Speaker 1: he's going to be looking for based on what you've
10:25
Speaker 1: seen from his team at West Virginia And I'm not
10:28
Speaker 1: sure how much you went back and looked at Drake,
10:29
Speaker 1: But what are the what are the key factors to
10:33
Speaker 1: look for when they do add a big man.
10:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's gonna be somebody with versatility. You know, they
10:38
Speaker 2: can they can move without the basketball, they can go
10:42
Speaker 2: set screens, and they're a good solid screener. I mean
10:44
Speaker 2: a lot of what he does on offense is predicated
10:47
Speaker 2: on setting good screens. And so when I say that,
10:50
Speaker 2: I mean both on the ball and off the ball.
10:52
Speaker 2: You know, he's gonna run a lot of off ball
10:54
Speaker 2: actions for for Tucker devrees, and so you've got to
10:57
Speaker 2: be able to set good screens. But then you also
10:59
Speaker 2: have to be able to operate eight and dribble handoffs.
11:01
Speaker 2: You know, that's a big part of his offense is
11:04
Speaker 2: getting that ball kind of in the high post, letting
11:06
Speaker 2: that guy make decisions from there, that guy being the
11:09
Speaker 2: big man, and so somebody with versatility there and then
11:12
Speaker 2: can catch lobs on the offensive end, like you know,
11:15
Speaker 2: he's gonna roll that guy to the rim a lot,
11:17
Speaker 2: but he's also gonna slip them or he's going to
11:22
Speaker 2: pop them and kind of create space that way as well.
11:25
Speaker 2: So it's somebody with versatility. But as you mentioned with
11:29
Speaker 2: Malik Renew, it's somebody that doesn't need the ball in
11:32
Speaker 2: their hands or a high usage. It's somebody that kind
11:35
Speaker 2: of understands their role in the team is, you know,
11:38
Speaker 2: make shots around the rim when it's thrown to me
11:41
Speaker 2: and create things for other people with your gravity on
11:43
Speaker 2: the floor. So those are gonna be kind of the
11:47
Speaker 2: traits he looks for offensively. Defensively, I think he's gonna
11:50
Speaker 2: want somebody that can protect the rim. You know, he's
11:53
Speaker 2: he's I know this is a cuss word for people,
11:55
Speaker 2: but he does employ the pack line defense, and you know,
12:00
Speaker 2: in the pack line, you're gonna want somebody that can
12:01
Speaker 2: protect the the rim, somebody that's got good solid post defense,
12:06
Speaker 2: because you're gonna double the post a lot in the
12:10
Speaker 2: pack line, and then you're gonna have to sprint out
12:11
Speaker 2: next out, so you're gonna need to be firstile on
12:14
Speaker 2: that end as well. You know, last year at West
12:16
Speaker 2: Virginia they didn't have a great big man presence. They
12:20
Speaker 2: they lacked size, I thought in the Big twelve, especially,
12:24
Speaker 2: but they still fought tremendously hard on the defensive end.
12:27
Speaker 2: And you know, the big man's always your anchor of
12:30
Speaker 2: your defense, right It's it's why you know, I know,
12:34
Speaker 2: pack line kind of gets like to be the cuss
12:36
Speaker 2: word with Indiana fans because Archie Miller employed it. But
12:38
Speaker 2: like defense wasn't really Archie Miller's shortcoming, you know, that
12:43
Speaker 2: was more so on the offensive end and getting guys
12:46
Speaker 2: that were dynamic on the recruiting trail that could actually
12:49
Speaker 2: win basketball games. So you know, Brad Stevens employed the
12:54
Speaker 2: pack line defense. So it's it's not this horrible system.
12:59
Speaker 2: And so I want people to be cognizant of that
13:01
Speaker 2: as well when they hear about pack line defense and
13:03
Speaker 2: not just freak out immediately that you know, I do
13:07
Speaker 2: think going back to your your big man trait, though,
13:10
Speaker 2: you're gonna want somebody that can guard multiple positions, perhaps
13:13
Speaker 2: especially in the Big ten, Like you know, you're gonna
13:15
Speaker 2: have to be a grinder a little bit, and you
13:18
Speaker 2: got more of a big man play in the Big
13:21
Speaker 2: Ten than you are maybe nationally. But you also don't
13:24
Speaker 2: want to build your roster to win the Big Ten necessarily.
13:27
Speaker 2: You want to build your roster to be able to
13:29
Speaker 2: compete in March. And so you know, getting these big
13:33
Speaker 2: plotting guys may not be the best recipe to win
13:36
Speaker 2: the Big Ten each and every year, but it might
13:38
Speaker 2: be your best recipe to make some noise at March.
13:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. The name that just kind of looking back at
13:45
Speaker 1: the portal for last year, the name that kind of
13:47
Speaker 1: popped in my head immediately when you you kind of
13:49
Speaker 1: mentioned some of the things you just did, was Amari Williams,
13:51
Speaker 1: who ended up in Kentucky. That that to be would
13:54
Speaker 1: be more of the prototypical big man that the Reeves
13:58
Speaker 1: would look for as opposed to an Umar Bam or
14:01
Speaker 1: the leak Renew And that's nothing against those guys.
14:03
Speaker 2: It's just.
14:05
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, Bala before he came to Indiana wasn't
14:08
Speaker 1: necessarily your back to the basket player, but obviously in
14:11
Speaker 1: terms of just his mobility wasn't the greatest. But you
14:15
Speaker 1: watch a guy like Amari Williams, he can just do
14:17
Speaker 1: so many things. His versatility with the ball. That's the
14:20
Speaker 1: kind of player that I think basically fits the description
14:23
Speaker 1: of what you're describing. I want to go back a
14:26
Speaker 1: little bit into Devrees's history, and obviously some people looked
14:32
Speaker 1: at his season last year at West Virginia and said, well,
14:35
Speaker 1: he was nineteen and thirteen. He was the first team
14:37
Speaker 1: out of the tournament. What's so impressive about this? He
14:39
Speaker 1: was just one spot ahead of Indiana. But a thing
14:42
Speaker 1: that a lot of people brought up was just how
14:44
Speaker 1: he elevated the Drake program because it was really a
14:49
Speaker 1: long time between their twenty one seasons, but you know,
14:53
Speaker 1: looking back in their history and what he was able
14:55
Speaker 1: to do just in terms of stacking those twenty one seasons,
15:00
Speaker 1: How important is that? Do you think when evaluating a coach?
15:03
Speaker 1: Just to go back and I know this is something
15:05
Speaker 1: that Mike talked a lot about on the X's and
15:06
Speaker 1: Joe's podcast, but just being able to elevate a program
15:09
Speaker 1: to maybe a hype that it wasn't at before, How
15:11
Speaker 1: how how how pivotal I guess is that when when
15:14
Speaker 1: evaluating candidates.
15:16
Speaker 2: I think it's important, you know, it's it kind of
15:19
Speaker 2: goes back to the Sigmold right, he showed that he
15:22
Speaker 2: had could build a program and turning around in short
15:27
Speaker 2: order as well. And to me, that's that's your role
15:30
Speaker 2: as the head coach, right, You're the CEO, Like you're
15:33
Speaker 2: making all of the things happen for your program to
15:36
Speaker 2: take steps forward. And that's not just knowing x's and o's, like,
15:40
Speaker 2: that's understanding relationships and how to raise money. You know,
15:45
Speaker 2: especially at programs like Drake and stuff like that, to
15:48
Speaker 2: elevate your facilities would help elevate you and recruiting and
15:51
Speaker 2: all of those things goes into being a head coach.
15:55
Speaker 2: And when you can do that at a program that
15:57
Speaker 2: historically was not good and I think they had what
16:02
Speaker 2: nine twenty win seasons in their history of their school,
16:05
Speaker 2: and six of them were with Devrees or something along
16:07
Speaker 2: those lines, hadn't made the NCAA attorney in several decades,
16:12
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, he's got them in
16:14
Speaker 2: the NCAA tournament regularly. Like those things are important, And
16:18
Speaker 2: you know what, I kind of got frustrated by when
16:21
Speaker 2: Devrees it is all of a sudden. Most people probably
16:25
Speaker 2: didn't watch a lot of Drake and West Virginia that
16:28
Speaker 2: are Indiana fans like that that makes a lot of sense.
16:30
Speaker 2: You know, I don't either, And so what people immediately
16:34
Speaker 2: go to is they look at Kein Pom and Bart
16:36
Speaker 2: Torvik and go, well, you know, his offense has never
16:39
Speaker 2: been top twenty offense, or you know his defense wasn't
16:44
Speaker 2: great any given year or something like that. But those
16:47
Speaker 2: need to be contextualized, especially when you're looking at a
16:49
Speaker 2: mid major program like There's there's so much more that
16:53
Speaker 2: goes into it than just adjusted offensive efficiency, you know,
16:56
Speaker 2: just the defensi efficiency. Those are important numbers, absolutely, and
17:00
Speaker 2: when you're at a Power five or Power four program,
17:03
Speaker 2: those do mean a little bit more just based on
17:06
Speaker 2: who your opponents are and things like that. But you
17:10
Speaker 2: know what, I've noted this in my video, like Dan
17:12
Speaker 2: Hurley didn't have a top fifty offense ever at Rhode Island.
17:15
Speaker 2: Now he's seen as one of the best offensive mines
17:17
Speaker 2: in the games, won back to back national championships. Like
17:22
Speaker 2: those numbers just need contextualize a little bit. And so
17:25
Speaker 2: that was kind of my biggest like kind of annoyance
17:30
Speaker 2: with some fans when this hire was made, is they
17:33
Speaker 2: immediately just jumped to, all right, here were three numbers
17:36
Speaker 2: that weren't necessarily great on paper, but then when you
17:40
Speaker 2: dive into it and you look at film and you're like,
17:42
Speaker 2: my goodness, Like these guys are running awesome stuff. They're
17:44
Speaker 2: getting wide up with shots, they're not hitting them. Like
17:46
Speaker 2: sometimes your talent, you know, is what it is. And
17:50
Speaker 2: Mike you mentioned he elevated even a West Virginia program
17:53
Speaker 2: that the prior year was dead in the water, right
17:56
Speaker 2: and immediately comes in, develops a staff, gets guys that
18:01
Speaker 2: can fit together. Unfortunately, he loses two of his top
18:04
Speaker 2: three scores and still it has a like I said,
18:07
Speaker 2: a fourteenth RAE rated defense and should unless you know,
18:12
Speaker 2: if their president was the head of the NCAA selection committee,
18:15
Speaker 2: that probably in the NCAA tournament. And so you know
18:19
Speaker 2: those things are are important. And so you know, I
18:22
Speaker 2: had some predud fans jabbing me like I wouldn't you
18:24
Speaker 2: You have the opportunity to fire a guy that didn't
18:27
Speaker 2: make the tournament, to hire a guy that didn't make
18:28
Speaker 2: the tournament. You got to make that higher. And you know,
18:30
Speaker 2: it's like there's so much to be contextualized in that
18:32
Speaker 2: higher And that's why I love diving into the film
18:35
Speaker 2: side of things, because then you can kind of make
18:37
Speaker 2: nuts and bolts of it and like, Okay, I understand why,
18:40
Speaker 2: the why and the how kind of of what these
18:43
Speaker 2: numbers are.
18:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go back and look at a lot
18:46
Speaker 1: of different coaches that have kind of moved up at
18:49
Speaker 1: level and probably look at their Ken Palm profile or
18:52
Speaker 1: the numbers on bart Torpick and say, this wasn't all
18:54
Speaker 1: that impressive. But it kind of goes into maybe the
18:57
Speaker 1: next idea thing that I wanted to to talk to
19:00
Speaker 1: you about is just there's not many proven coaches that
19:05
Speaker 1: are gonna move jobs, and so you have to kind
19:08
Speaker 1: of look under the radar. I'm not saying that Derees
19:10
Speaker 1: was completely under the radar, but before he went to
19:12
Speaker 1: West Virginia, he was obviously just a mid major coach
19:15
Speaker 1: and looking at just raw numbers of offensive and defensive
19:22
Speaker 1: efficiency without any context. As you mentioned, it doesn't really
19:25
Speaker 1: tell the whole story because when you're out of Drake,
19:28
Speaker 1: you're ceiling for how high you can likely even get
19:31
Speaker 1: in those computer numbers. It's pretty limited because of the
19:33
Speaker 1: schedule that you're playing, unless you go out in the
19:35
Speaker 1: non conference and are just ultra aggressive and say you
19:38
Speaker 1: play eight or nine games against top fifty teams, which
19:40
Speaker 1: would be pretty stupid to do because if you especially
19:43
Speaker 1: if you're trying to make the tournament, you only have
19:47
Speaker 1: a probably you know, you could maybe get the top forty,
19:52
Speaker 1: top thirty. I think some of Dusty May's later teams
19:54
Speaker 1: at Ford Atlantic and they may have scheduled more agressively.
19:57
Speaker 1: I haven't looked at it closely, but they made their
20:00
Speaker 1: way up. But obviously the one year he made a
20:02
Speaker 1: final four, in the following year they were really a
20:05
Speaker 1: ranked team all season. And so this idea that you
20:09
Speaker 1: have to hire a proven coach, I think Dan Hurley
20:13
Speaker 1: is a great example of this. No one was knocking
20:17
Speaker 1: down doors to hire Dan Hurley based on what he
20:20
Speaker 1: did at Rhode Island. He started out there really slowly
20:22
Speaker 1: and he gradually built over time. And another example of
20:25
Speaker 1: this based in this year's tournament, Grant McCaslin. I mean,
20:28
Speaker 1: he was at North Texas and I don't think before
20:32
Speaker 1: Texas Tech hired him he would have even been a
20:35
Speaker 1: name that people looked at for moving up a level.
20:38
Speaker 1: And he's proven himself to be successful. So the everyone
20:43
Speaker 1: I think gravitates towards the idea of a t J Olzelberger,
20:48
Speaker 1: or they gravitate towards the Brad Stevens or the Scott Drew,
20:52
Speaker 1: the Tommy all these names that are but look at
20:55
Speaker 1: where most of them came from. They were in the
20:58
Speaker 1: kind of the same position that Darren rees is coming
21:00
Speaker 1: to Indiana. They had relatively little to no experience at
21:05
Speaker 1: the high major level, and they went into a program
21:08
Speaker 1: that committed to them, gave them the opportunity to move up,
21:11
Speaker 1: and eventually, if you're a good enough coach, you elevate
21:14
Speaker 1: the program with you.
21:17
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I want to caveat this by saying, like,
21:19
Speaker 2: I understand where a lot of Indiana fans are coming.
21:23
Speaker 1: I get I get it too. Yeah, it's fun to
21:26
Speaker 1: dream about the home run higher, but realistically, how often
21:30
Speaker 1: does that happen? I mean, look at last year with
21:32
Speaker 1: Pat Kelsey and Mark Pope were I mean, those guys
21:34
Speaker 1: had to combine zero n CAA tournament wins when they
21:37
Speaker 1: were hired. That's unthinkable for programs like that to hire
21:40
Speaker 1: coaches like that.
21:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's funny too, is I gotten a little
21:44
Speaker 2: bit of a back and forth, which I should honestly
21:46
Speaker 2: do less of on Twitter, But sometimes I can't help
21:48
Speaker 2: myself with somebody that was like I kind of mentioned
21:52
Speaker 2: the Hurley mold and because they were mad that we
21:55
Speaker 2: hired Devrees. When I say we, I mean Indiana, and
22:00
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, well, you know he was like
22:04
Speaker 2: Dan Hurley had a much better winning percentage than Devrez
22:07
Speaker 2: did before he got the Yukon job. It's like, that's
22:09
Speaker 2: absolutely false. Verrez has a over a seventy percent win percentage.
22:13
Speaker 2: Hurley had fifty seven percent prior to going to Yukon.
22:16
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying Devrez is going to be Dan Hurley,
22:19
Speaker 2: but that's part of Scott Dolson's job, right, is projecting
22:23
Speaker 2: where can this guy take the program? How has he
22:26
Speaker 2: done things elsewhere? You know, what makes him special? Does
22:30
Speaker 2: he need something to make him special? Maybe you don't,
22:32
Speaker 2: Like maybe at Indiana, all you need is just somebody
22:35
Speaker 2: that coaches basketball, can get along with the donors, understands
22:39
Speaker 2: how to use the fan base to your advantage, and
22:41
Speaker 2: you don't have to be special. Like there is that
22:44
Speaker 2: possibility as well. You know, there's there's been guys that
22:47
Speaker 2: have gone far that aren't these crazy you know, personalities
22:52
Speaker 2: or great just the best x's and those guys, but
22:54
Speaker 2: they understand just how to elevate people, and they're good leaders.
22:58
Speaker 2: And you know, for me, my biggest thing here with
23:01
Speaker 2: Darren Devreez is everything I've heard about him is the
23:03
Speaker 2: dude loves basketball. He's going to go out and grind
23:07
Speaker 2: on the recruiting trail. He's going to understand what it
23:10
Speaker 2: takes to make Indiana tick. I mean, a lot of
23:13
Speaker 2: people have talked to that have had meetings with him
23:16
Speaker 2: already are important people in the state, and like it
23:20
Speaker 2: or not, like you got to get along with those people,
23:23
Speaker 2: and you got to be able to talk to the
23:25
Speaker 2: top donors, and you got to be able to talk
23:27
Speaker 2: to the common fan. Not that the fans are this
23:30
Speaker 2: end all be all and you have to be best
23:32
Speaker 2: friends with all of them, but as he noted in
23:34
Speaker 2: his press conference, like having a passionate fan base can
23:37
Speaker 2: certainly be used to your advantage. And just understanding that
23:41
Speaker 2: from the outset to me is why I'm confident this
23:45
Speaker 2: is a good hire. And then also having a guy
23:49
Speaker 2: that was at a great job in West Virginia, like
23:52
Speaker 2: West Virginia is a really good job. They've got great support,
23:55
Speaker 2: They're like the professional team of the state. Everybody rallies
23:58
Speaker 2: around them. That's a good job job, and the fact
24:01
Speaker 2: he was willing to leave that after one year to
24:04
Speaker 2: go take the Indiana job because he thinks he can
24:06
Speaker 2: do great things with Indiana. To me, you've got to
24:09
Speaker 2: have a little bit of like, for lack of a
24:11
Speaker 2: better terms, dog in you like to leave a good
24:15
Speaker 2: job after one year to go take a better one,
24:17
Speaker 2: And to me, like that mentality in that mindset is
24:21
Speaker 2: why I think this is not an Archie Miller higher
24:23
Speaker 2: Like I don't think Archie Miller really ever wanted the
24:25
Speaker 2: Indiana job, but he just thought how could you say
24:28
Speaker 2: no to Indiana? Whereas Darren Devrees, I think this is
24:31
Speaker 2: something like, Hey, I want this. I think I can
24:33
Speaker 2: go do big things here at Indiana, and I'm going
24:36
Speaker 2: to leave this great job and these great people to
24:39
Speaker 2: go elevate a program that has a lot of history
24:43
Speaker 2: and I think I can get it back to that.
24:44
Speaker 2: So that's what gives me a lot of confidence here
24:46
Speaker 2: in this higher.
24:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, everyone talks about Indiana being a fish
24:50
Speaker 1: bowl and the fans and the negativity, but if you
24:55
Speaker 1: don't have the passion from the fan base, what do
24:57
Speaker 1: you really have as a program you have really nothing.
25:00
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what's really kept Indiana basketball relative are
25:05
Speaker 1: relevant all these years is they've not won, but the
25:10
Speaker 1: fans continue to show up and support the program and
25:12
Speaker 1: all this. You know, we talk about this every coaching
25:15
Speaker 1: hire Indiana. I wouldn't call it a sleeping giant because
25:19
Speaker 1: obviously there's there's a lot of support anyway, But imagine
25:24
Speaker 1: what it would look like if you are the person
25:27
Speaker 1: that comes back to Indiana or comes to Indiana and
25:30
Speaker 1: gets it back to contending regularly in the Big Ten.
25:33
Speaker 1: And I don't even want to hear about national championship
25:35
Speaker 1: stuff because to me, like the number one thing for
25:38
Speaker 1: Indiana is just try to get in the you know,
25:41
Speaker 1: top three or four in the Big ten regularly and
25:43
Speaker 1: then worry about the other stuff. I mean, that was
25:46
Speaker 1: one of the things that Mike Woodson talked about from
25:48
Speaker 1: the beginning. It drove me nuts. It's like, did you
25:50
Speaker 1: not see the standings the last four years? Shouldn't even
25:53
Speaker 1: be talking about national championships. Just get back in the
25:55
Speaker 1: hunt in the Big ten. But I agree with you
25:57
Speaker 1: the idea that he is embracing the challenge and going
26:03
Speaker 1: back to Archie looking back on it, he never really
26:08
Speaker 1: seemed comfortable with the idea of like being the India coach.
26:10
Speaker 1: He just wanted to coach the team. There's a lot
26:12
Speaker 1: of other things that go into it. That's the one
26:14
Speaker 1: thing we'll see with Debes how when time progress, as
26:18
Speaker 1: time goes along here, how he embraces the other responsibilities
26:22
Speaker 1: of being the coach. I mean, he obviously handled the
26:25
Speaker 1: press conference really well. He didn't. It wasn't any like
26:28
Speaker 1: crazy charisma that he's shown or anything like that. But
26:31
Speaker 1: he obviously met every question had on But the things
26:34
Speaker 1: that he said just in terms about his process and
26:37
Speaker 1: how he wants to build a program, build a culture,
26:40
Speaker 1: these are not really things that we definitely didn't hear
26:43
Speaker 1: from Mike Woodson, and we may have heard them early
26:45
Speaker 1: on from Archie Miller, but then we just heard less
26:48
Speaker 1: and less from him over time. So I think from
26:49
Speaker 1: a communications standpoint, he's off to a much better start
26:52
Speaker 1: as well.
26:53
Speaker 2: Totally agree. And you know, I got some people that
26:57
Speaker 2: are like he seemed pretty dry, you know, is that
27:00
Speaker 2: the personality that can win at Indiana? And yes, absolutely,
27:05
Speaker 2: you know, And what I'd think too, is like he
27:07
Speaker 2: was dry in his prepared statement, like he obviously wasn't
27:10
Speaker 2: very comfortable in giving that as soon as the questions
27:13
Speaker 2: came and he was talking off the cuff just about
27:15
Speaker 2: basketball and how he wants to lead a program, and
27:17
Speaker 2: that weren't things that were prepared like those were. To me,
27:20
Speaker 2: that was his better side of the press conference when
27:23
Speaker 2: he didn't have to, you know, thank all the right
27:25
Speaker 2: people and just try to say all the right things
27:27
Speaker 2: to get people going. It was when he got the
27:29
Speaker 2: questions from you guys in the media and he could
27:32
Speaker 2: just talk shop and how he wants to build a
27:34
Speaker 2: program and how he's gonna run his offense and his defense,
27:36
Speaker 2: and like, to me, that was that's like the charisma
27:39
Speaker 2: side of it and how you can sell, cause that's
27:42
Speaker 2: when you're in the room with parents and kids and
27:45
Speaker 2: agents and all those things, Like how do you sell
27:47
Speaker 2: your vision in your team to get them to buy
27:49
Speaker 2: in what you're doing to what you're doing. And he
27:52
Speaker 2: did that extremely well at the press conference, Like here's
27:54
Speaker 2: what I'm going to do. He laid out a very clear,
27:56
Speaker 2: coherent plan and then you know, when he's in that
27:59
Speaker 2: room with the kids, he's going to obviously do that
28:01
Speaker 2: at a deeper level, and like that's what people want.
28:04
Speaker 2: They want to see your vision and then you get
28:07
Speaker 2: them to buy into that vision. And I think he's
28:09
Speaker 2: going to have that. It reminds me a lot of
28:11
Speaker 2: sig mean kind of how he talks about building culture,
28:15
Speaker 2: staying process oriented, not worrying about the results, you know,
28:19
Speaker 2: being very cognizant of culture, and not letting the wrong
28:22
Speaker 2: people in, you know, to me, that's the like people
28:26
Speaker 2: have been. Like, Indiana does not attached to anybody in
28:28
Speaker 2: the portal, and it's like, well, if you want desperation
28:31
Speaker 2: and to just continually just have your name attached to
28:34
Speaker 2: every guy in the portal, then like, let's go flashback
28:37
Speaker 2: to last year, because the last couple of years, like
28:39
Speaker 2: that's that's not necessarily what you want. You know. He
28:42
Speaker 2: talked about I'm going to build a team where the
28:44
Speaker 2: pieces fit together, whereas under Mike Woodson it was accumulating
28:49
Speaker 2: talent and then let's figure it out. And as we
28:52
Speaker 2: could have seen the last couple of years in Indiana,
28:55
Speaker 2: they couldn't really ever mesh and figure it out because
28:57
Speaker 2: the pieces just didn't fit. And so the fact that
29:00
Speaker 2: Indiana's not attached to every guy in the portal and
29:02
Speaker 2: they're being very kind of cognizant of here's the pieces
29:07
Speaker 2: we want, and we're not going to deviate from that
29:08
Speaker 2: process in that plan, and the fact that all the
29:12
Speaker 2: best players are still playing as well, so it's like,
29:15
Speaker 2: you know, everybody available right now are all the guys
29:18
Speaker 2: that lost, Not that you can't get guys that have
29:20
Speaker 2: lost or mid major guys or whatever. But I do
29:24
Speaker 2: think that there's a very clear plan and it's very
29:27
Speaker 2: similar to what kind of Sig did with the football
29:31
Speaker 2: program of like we're not going to sacrifice things in
29:34
Speaker 2: year one to kind of go away from our standards,
29:39
Speaker 2: like we're gonna have these standards and if if we
29:41
Speaker 2: don't win a national championship in year one, but it's
29:44
Speaker 2: giving us a solid foundation to build upon, Like that's
29:47
Speaker 2: what you want as a program. And so that's what
29:49
Speaker 2: I'm kind of excited to see, is like what's this
29:51
Speaker 2: foundation gonna be and and how are they going to
29:54
Speaker 2: build it and how are these pieces going to fit together?
29:57
Speaker 2: And then what I'm also excited about is it seems
29:59
Speaker 2: is they're going to go do a euro trip this summer,
30:03
Speaker 2: so we'll kind of get a glimpse of what those
30:06
Speaker 2: pieces look like a little bit earlier than some previous seasons.
30:11
Speaker 1: I hope we can get some television coverage for that
30:14
Speaker 1: if it does happen, because I know the last couple
30:16
Speaker 1: of times I know when Kentucky takes these trips, it's
30:20
Speaker 1: like a big deal, Like the SEC networks, they're covering
30:22
Speaker 1: the games, which is I think a great way to
30:24
Speaker 1: showcase your program. And I know the Montreal trip because
30:27
Speaker 1: I went on that trip back in twenty fourteen. It
30:31
Speaker 1: was I went to it was five exhibition games. We
30:33
Speaker 1: were allowed to show two minutes of video from all
30:35
Speaker 1: the games and it's like, what are we hiding here
30:40
Speaker 1: in August? And I know the last time they went
30:42
Speaker 1: it was I think twenty twenty one the Bahamas. It
30:44
Speaker 1: was the same thing because I had I got somebody
30:45
Speaker 1: down there to take videos, like we can show two minutes.
30:47
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is these are exhibition games. Like do
30:50
Speaker 1: everything you can to promote your program and try to
30:53
Speaker 1: get as much out there. I mean, it's a way
30:54
Speaker 1: to build excitement for the program. So I hope that's
30:56
Speaker 1: something that changes for that. I want to go back
30:58
Speaker 1: to the portal though for one second, it last year.
31:02
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us, myself included other people
31:04
Speaker 1: in the media, got caught up in the portal rankings
31:08
Speaker 1: where guys were ranked. You know, Miles Rice was the whatever,
31:11
Speaker 1: top five point guard in the portal. Canaan Carlisle was
31:14
Speaker 1: a top fifty player in the portal. Umar Bolla was
31:17
Speaker 1: the center everybody wanted, and we talked a lot of
31:20
Speaker 1: us tucked ourselves into just grabbing all these players are talented,
31:24
Speaker 1: figuring out later. But Indian is gonna have talent. So
31:26
Speaker 1: we heard all season right, Indiana's got talent. They can
31:29
Speaker 1: make a run. But the pieces didn't necessarily fit together.
31:33
Speaker 1: So you mentioned kind of the lack of information right
31:37
Speaker 1: now in terms of being connected to Portal guys, and
31:40
Speaker 1: I think some of that is the fact that there's
31:44
Speaker 1: not a full staff in place yet, and also that
31:47
Speaker 1: this for those that don't follow me on social media.
31:51
Speaker 1: I put out a timeline yesterday that I talked to
31:54
Speaker 1: my friend Dylan Burkehart of um Hoops of Dusty May
31:57
Speaker 1: was hired kind of a similar timeframe last spring, and
32:00
Speaker 1: when they started getting commitments wasn't until the back half
32:03
Speaker 1: of April. So even though it may feel like things
32:06
Speaker 1: are a little behind schedule or moving slowly. It's really
32:10
Speaker 1: still early. I mean, it's what they five of the portal,
32:15
Speaker 1: and it's a thirty day window, and guys don't have
32:17
Speaker 1: to be committed by the time the portal closes. They
32:20
Speaker 1: just have to be in the portal. And I think
32:22
Speaker 1: you made a great point. The guys that are in
32:24
Speaker 1: the portal right now unless you've left a team that's
32:26
Speaker 1: still playing, which I think there's a couple. Yeah, right,
32:31
Speaker 1: there's a couple examples of that. But sure, there's gonna
32:35
Speaker 1: be great players out there, but there's probably a couple
32:38
Speaker 1: of players maybe that are still playing right now, that
32:40
Speaker 1: Indiana wants to get for next season that are going
32:42
Speaker 1: to go in the portal. What do you think, just
32:47
Speaker 1: from a fan perspective, when you when you follow this
32:49
Speaker 1: whole process, what are you going to be looking for
32:51
Speaker 1: just in terms of fit and style of play when
32:54
Speaker 1: you evaluate these portal guys.
32:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's going to be huge and it'll
32:59
Speaker 2: be fun to see kind of you know. Obviously Derees
33:03
Speaker 2: has been a little bit hamstrung everywhere he's been thus far,
33:07
Speaker 2: Like at Drake obviously you're not going to get five star,
33:10
Speaker 2: four star talent. Then at West Virginia last year. You know,
33:13
Speaker 2: you're building a new roster. You know, it's not like
33:16
Speaker 2: it's they have good in al, but it's not like
33:18
Speaker 2: you have great in il. So to me, it'll be
33:20
Speaker 2: really interesting to see, like this would be the first
33:22
Speaker 2: time Derese to probably go out and build a roster
33:27
Speaker 2: very cool. I don't want to say the perfect roster
33:29
Speaker 2: for what he wants, but pretty close to like his
33:32
Speaker 2: ideal scenario of how you build a team, And so
33:37
Speaker 2: to me, it'll kind of be really interesting to see
33:39
Speaker 2: what that means and how and how that projects moving
33:43
Speaker 2: forward for his tenure. Now, it's going to be a
33:45
Speaker 2: little bit more difficult because he's trying to get twelve
33:47
Speaker 2: thirteen guys rostered right. So it may not be his
33:51
Speaker 2: perfect ideal team in year one, but I think he's
33:54
Speaker 2: going to be able to get the prototypes he won
33:57
Speaker 2: at each position, Like point guard. I'm guessing he's gonna
34:00
Speaker 2: want somebody like the Javon Small was at West Virginia.
34:04
Speaker 2: You know, somebody that can play two ways, very dynamic
34:07
Speaker 2: with the basketball in their hands, makes great decisions, can
34:09
Speaker 2: put the ball in the bucket, and then it's kind
34:11
Speaker 2: of the head of the snake of the defense, applies
34:13
Speaker 2: great ball pressure and just takes the offense out of
34:16
Speaker 2: what they want to do. So point guard wise, that's
34:18
Speaker 2: what I'm guessing he's gonna try to go get, especially
34:21
Speaker 2: since he has some much success with small then he's
34:24
Speaker 2: gonna want dynamic wings. You know, guys that can play
34:27
Speaker 2: multiple positions, probably two through four can guard multiple positions
34:32
Speaker 2: and put the ball in the bucket, right, you know, duh,
34:35
Speaker 2: But it's it sounds like common sense, but that's that's
34:40
Speaker 2: likely what he's want to go want to go get.
34:41
Speaker 2: His son's gonna be more of that stretch for Mold,
34:44
Speaker 2: so he might go get try to get somebody that's
34:48
Speaker 2: more dynamic at the four that he can plug in
34:53
Speaker 2: off the bench. You know, somebody kind of like a
34:56
Speaker 2: Caleb Bakes prototype, you know, long, athletic, like I said,
35:01
Speaker 2: it can guard multiple positions and things like that. And
35:03
Speaker 2: then we talked about the big man, you know, kind
35:05
Speaker 2: of having some length and athleticism to him. But maybe
35:10
Speaker 2: off the bench, he'll try to get somebody that's a
35:11
Speaker 2: little bit more like your typical five of just kind
35:15
Speaker 2: of big, strong to play in the post, because you
35:18
Speaker 2: know you're gonna be grinding through the Big ten against
35:21
Speaker 2: a lot of really good post players, and you might
35:23
Speaker 2: want to go get somebody off the bench that can
35:26
Speaker 2: kind of compliment what your other big is doing. So
35:30
Speaker 2: to me, it'll be really fascinating to see what he
35:32
Speaker 2: goes and gets. And then I think what you're gonna
35:34
Speaker 2: see more than anything is he's not going to sacrifice
35:38
Speaker 2: the team to go get a five star talent or
35:41
Speaker 2: something like that. Like his teams play extremely hard, like
35:44
Speaker 2: they just do. I went and watched a lot of
35:45
Speaker 2: West Virginia film, like didn't have a ton of talent,
35:48
Speaker 2: especially as the year wore down and they lost guys
35:51
Speaker 2: the injury, but they just played so hard. His Drake
35:54
Speaker 2: team played extremely hard, So he's gonna go get guys
35:58
Speaker 2: I think that are going to give it everything they've
36:01
Speaker 2: got on the floor when they're out there. They're guys
36:04
Speaker 2: that aren't afraid to kind of sink their teeth in
36:07
Speaker 2: on the defensive end and get stops and things like that.
36:11
Speaker 2: So to me, it'll be really interesting to see kind
36:13
Speaker 2: of like the prototypes at each position that he's targeting,
36:18
Speaker 2: because I do think it's going to be pretty dissimilar
36:21
Speaker 2: to what we've seen in Indiana for quite some time.
36:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, the other thing I'm potentially excited to see is
36:28
Speaker 1: there maybe a couple of freshmen that you could go
36:30
Speaker 1: out and get to kind of because you're you're filling
36:33
Speaker 1: so many spots. I don't know that you want to
36:35
Speaker 1: go completely with all. I mean, let's say right now
36:40
Speaker 1: the reezes on the roster. Who knows what happens with
36:42
Speaker 1: Luke Goodie, but Trent Sisley, so there's one freshman. But
36:47
Speaker 1: if you're gonna fill and again people are well, there's
36:50
Speaker 1: fifteen spots, I don't know that you're going to fill
36:53
Speaker 1: that many spots. I mean, that's a good way to
36:56
Speaker 1: not have a great locker room if you're going to
36:57
Speaker 1: bring in fifteen scholarship players. I don't necessarily I think
37:00
Speaker 1: that's the way to do it, although it maybe you
37:05
Speaker 1: bring in a couple of freshmen that are long, longer
37:08
Speaker 1: term development guys. Again, you got to get the right
37:13
Speaker 1: player with the right mindset, because the problem there is
37:15
Speaker 1: you bring a guy in don't play very much and
37:17
Speaker 1: then they just hit the portal, so it's like a
37:19
Speaker 1: wasted year. But I think one thing you can learn
37:21
Speaker 1: from Matt Painter and his program at Purdue. He's been
37:24
Speaker 1: able to sell that vision on a longer term timeline
37:28
Speaker 1: for a lot of these guys, and it works right
37:30
Speaker 1: because you bring a guy in and you develop them
37:32
Speaker 1: over course of a couple of years, and all of
37:34
Speaker 1: a sudden, like a Trey Kaufman Wrin, most programs would
37:38
Speaker 1: have lost him after a year or two because he's
37:41
Speaker 1: red shirting, he's not playing, and all of a sudden, he's,
37:44
Speaker 1: you know, still alive in the NCAA tournament and scoring
37:48
Speaker 1: what fifteen seventeen eighteen points a game regularly. So that
37:51
Speaker 1: would be another thing that's kind of interesting to me,
37:53
Speaker 1: because I don't think you want to get yourself in
37:57
Speaker 1: a situation where you have just all portal guys that
38:00
Speaker 1: are gonna be but you know a lot of them
38:03
Speaker 1: will be seniors, and you want to have some guys
38:05
Speaker 1: at least you can build some continuity year over year.
38:07
Speaker 1: That was one thing that stood out from what he
38:09
Speaker 1: said in the program in the press conference, is just
38:12
Speaker 1: basically trying to make the experience so that you're not
38:16
Speaker 1: losing a ton of guys every year, because I don't
38:18
Speaker 1: think any coach wants to go through what this will
38:22
Speaker 1: be the second straight year for him of building from
38:24
Speaker 1: the ground up. I don't think that's a sustainable system
38:27
Speaker 1: for the long term.
38:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. It's just it's hard. It makes your
38:32
Speaker 2: life extremely hard, especially when you're in the spring, like
38:35
Speaker 2: that's a big time for development, but when you're having
38:38
Speaker 2: to focus all of your energy on building a roster
38:41
Speaker 2: each year, you kind of lose out on that. And
38:43
Speaker 2: then like for him, it's really weird, like they're not
38:47
Speaker 2: running spring workouts right now because they don't have a team,
38:51
Speaker 2: and it's not like those guys can just show up
38:53
Speaker 2: in March like they're at their previous universities until summer hits.
38:57
Speaker 2: So you know, he got nothing more to do right
39:00
Speaker 2: now than obviously dive into the portal and getting his
39:04
Speaker 2: staff aligned and things like that. But it's just such
39:07
Speaker 2: a different time where you don't have a literally a
39:11
Speaker 2: single guy possibly returning, and so like you don't have
39:16
Speaker 2: any anybody to work out, like you know, I mean
39:19
Speaker 2: his son, that's it, right, Yeah, And I've heard that
39:23
Speaker 2: like the guys that are in the portal are still
39:25
Speaker 2: allowed to use the facilities and things like that to
39:27
Speaker 2: work out themselves and things like that. But yeah, just
39:32
Speaker 2: a very weird, Like I can't imagine any coach ever
39:35
Speaker 2: thought they would ever have to do that once even
39:37
Speaker 2: a decade ago, and now that you know, now he's
39:38
Speaker 2: on a second straight year of having to do something
39:41
Speaker 2: similar to this, and so very interesting. I don't know
39:47
Speaker 2: that it's it's it's great for college basketball that so
39:50
Speaker 2: many teams are turning over their entire rosters year in
39:54
Speaker 2: and year out. But I do think as Indiana fans,
39:58
Speaker 2: it's kind of a nice cleanse, a bit of just
40:01
Speaker 2: like putting the past in the past and kind of
40:05
Speaker 2: a renewed future of just all new you know, seemingly
40:09
Speaker 2: all new staff, seemingly all new players, like everything's different,
40:13
Speaker 2: and I think just a program reset is probably healthy
40:17
Speaker 2: for everybody involved. And so I think it just there
40:21
Speaker 2: should be a lot of like optimism around the program
40:24
Speaker 2: right now. I think with just everything kind of being
40:26
Speaker 2: fresh and new, you know, you're not thinking like how
40:29
Speaker 2: well this guy worked out, like he wasn't very good
40:31
Speaker 2: last year and things like that. It's like, nope, all new,
40:34
Speaker 2: everything's looking forward to the future. I don't think that's
40:37
Speaker 2: necessarily a bad thing for where Indian is at right now.
40:41
Speaker 1: Yep, Well, Tony, thanks for carving out the time for
40:44
Speaker 1: us on this Friday morning. Always good to uh talk
40:46
Speaker 1: to you. As I said earlier in the show, everyone
40:49
Speaker 1: that hasn't watched your video breakdown on Darren Devrees over
40:54
Speaker 1: on is the best place to do that.
40:56
Speaker 2: You can do it X or you. It's on YouTube
40:58
Speaker 2: as well if you just type in Darren Devrees it's
41:00
Speaker 2: on there as well.
41:02
Speaker 1: Okay, make sure to check that out if you haven't.
41:04
Speaker 1: Tony again, thanks for coming on the show. Thanks everybody
41:07
Speaker 1: as always for listening to Podcasts on the Brink. If
41:09
Speaker 1: you enjoy the show, please leave us a rating and
41:11
Speaker 1: review over on Apple Podcasts, leave us a five star
41:14
Speaker 1: rating on Spotify, and we'll be back soon with another
41:16
Speaker 1: episode of podcast on the Brink.