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When Your Teen “Stops Caring”… Why That’s Actually a Win · IMPACT: Parenting with Perspective

• 0:00
  Ben: I'm Ben Pugh and you're listening to IMPACT! Parenting with Perspective.
• 0:06
  Ben: This podcast is all about helping parents manage the mental and emotional drama that comes with parenting teens so they can focus on what's most important.
• 0:17
  Ben: Building rock solid relationships and having a powerful impact on their teen's life.
• 0:23
  Ben: Join me each week as I dive into real tools to help you and your teen turn struggles into strengths.
• 0:32
  Cortni: ​Hello.
• 0:33
  Cortni: Welcome to the podcast.
• 0:34
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 0:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Welcome back guys.
• 0:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm back with Cortni, the dynamic duo.
• 0:43
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 0:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Used to be Batman and Robin.
• 0:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Not anymore.
• 0:46
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It's Ben and Cortni.
• 0:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So, and we are here to ease all of your parenting woes.
• 0:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Maybe not all of'em.
• 0:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Maybe we'll make some of'em a little bit worse.
• 0:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But here's the thing, guys.
• 0:59
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Sometimes when you're struggling and parenting like.
• 1:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You've got to rip the bandaid off and you got to do some hard things that initially might look like things have gotten worse.
• 1:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Funny that I bring that up.
• 1:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So this has been an interesting week.
• 1:18
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni.
• 1:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Can I just share with you my interesting week?
• 1:22
  Cortni: I had love to hear it.
• 1:23
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: This is like you're my life coach.
• 1:26
  Cortni: Hmm.
• 1:27
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I was working with a young man.
• 1:30
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I will now be.
• 1:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Working with his parents and this young man, we had some really good conversations.
• 1:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I taught him about the self-coaching model.
• 1:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I taught him about emotional intelligence, well, emotional health, then emotional intelligence, then emotional intentionality, and he kind of.
• 1:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: In kind of his mom's words fell off the wagon and she's like, is it normal for kids to get worse when after they start coaching with you?
• 2:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm like, well, not necessarily, but like tell me more about what's going on.
• 2:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And she's like, it's like he's not even pretending to care anymore.
• 2:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm like, well that's a good thing.
• 2:18
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like do we really want our kids to.
• 2:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Pretend to care about what we're teaching'em or pretend that school's important or pre, like I don't see the problem here anyways, it was awesome.
• 2:34
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm talking to Moham and dad and I'm like, well, if he's been pretending for a long time, she's like, but if he's been pretending to like this sport forever, he needs to stick with a sport.
• 2:47
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm like.
• 2:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Well, how long, like if he hates it, how long does he need to pretend to like it and stick with it so that you can go to his games and enjoy it?
• 2:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And just so yes, teaching our children to think for themselves.
• 3:06
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Can have some negative side effects on you as a parent, but if that's the case, that means that you have been relying on your teenager to manage your model for you, and that is a very disempowered place to be.
• 3:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And so, no, I don't think my coaching made this young man any worse, and I seriously looking at the way I positioned this mom.
• 3:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I did not do her.
• 3:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Justice.
• 3:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm sorry if you're listening to this, like you are a fantastic mom, but we all fall into that same trap of wanting our kids to do what we want them to, so that we'll be happy.
• 3:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, you have experience with that, as do I?
• 3:51
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 3:51
  Cortni: Yes.
• 3:53
  Cortni: Yeah, it's hard,
• 3:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Do you want to give us an example of your experience with that?
• 3:59
  Cortni: I mean, are we talking sports here?
• 4:01
  Cortni: I mean, I'm sure there's plenty, but the first one that came to my mind was when my son decided to not do basketball anymore.
• 4:09
  Cortni: Like it broke my heart it still, it still sucks.
• 4:14
  Cortni: chose to focus on volleyball, but I don't want him to play basketball just because I want him to.
• 4:19
  Cortni: At the end of the day, it's his choice.
• 4:21
  Cortni: and that's a lot on his body.
• 4:23
  Cortni: I don't, know.
• 4:24
  Cortni: I want him to make choices that are best for him, things that he wants to do, because when he's grown and out of my house, I want him to continue to make choices that are best for him and do things that he wants to do regardless of any outside influence from anyone else.
• 4:40
  Cortni: Like
• 4:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 4:41
  Cortni: him to think for himself.
• 4:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 4:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You don't want him still worried like, is mom gonna be okay with this decision?
• 4:47
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Is mom gonna be happy?
• 4:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's
• 4:49
  Cortni: All right.
• 4:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: not your job.
• 4:50
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like that's mom's job to figure out whether or not she's happy.
• 4:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now this, granted, like this is hard for parents.
• 4:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I get it.
• 4:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It is hard on me when I have to deal with this, but if your child stops pretending.
• 5:06
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: To care about church.
• 5:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That is a win for your teenager.
• 5:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm not saying like your kids shouldn't care about church or shouldn't go to church.
• 5:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm just saying if they're going to go to church, I would rather that they go to church because they love church and they wanna be there and they wanna love it, not because they're pretending to love church so that mom and dad aren't upset.
• 5:31
  Cortni: I feel like if you force them, they will become more resentful.
• 5:34
  Cortni: They're certainly not gonna listen to anything.
• 5:36
  Cortni: Do you think that they're gonna absorb anything that they hear at church?
• 5:40
  Cortni: I feel like it would create more of a divide.
• 5:43
  Cortni: Like it would be harder to get them to embrace that if you force them.
• 5:47
  Cortni: But
• 5:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah, and I'm maybe slightly different, like I'm okay with parents forcing their kids to go to church.
• 5:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like if you come out with your 10 word vision statement and you're like, I will be the enforcer and I will do, like, if that feels good for you, be the parent you want to be.
• 6:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, I'm not here to tell you how to be a parent, but if you come down to it and you're like, oh dang, you know what?
• 6:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That doesn't.
• 6:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Feel like that's who I want to be, and I kind of just want to be that way because I was programmed by my grandma or my mom or like whatever.
• 6:20
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like you can start questioning that and intentionally be the parent you want to be.
• 6:24
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But like if you're listening to this podcast and you're like, no, we have a strict rule in our home that if you want certain privileges, you go to church.
• 6:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah, I'm totally okay with that.
• 6:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like if that's who you wanna be, and I feel like everything has like.
• 6:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Rules like that.
• 6:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like back when I used to have a job and I worked for someone else, like their rule was, man, you come to work if you want a paycheck.
• 6:48
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 6:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: As much as I hated going to work, I still went because I enjoyed the paycheck.
• 6:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The thing is, we need to be okay with our children learning to think for themselves and we need to stop being afraid.
• 7:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Of our kids thinking for themselves,
• 7:06
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 7:06
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: when it comes to religion or faith, number one, I probably am, I don't know if you have that weird guy in your church that thinks a little bit too much and talks too much and has weird ideas, that's probably me, but.
• 7:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I don't want my kids to feel obligated to come to church to make dad happy.
• 7:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I can trust that the real world is going to give my kids challenges and things that they're going to question and be like, oh dang.
• 7:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I want to go to church or I came back to church because of the peace that it offers or the direction that it offers.
• 7:52
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And so often when we force our kids to do what we want'em to, whether it be church or football, that was one.
• 8:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I forced one of my kids to play football for way too long, and he is like, dad, I hate it.
• 8:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm like, fine, you can start playing.
• 8:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But when you get out of the way and stop forcing, your kids now have the autonomy to make choices for themselves and they begin to trust themselves a little bit more.
• 8:22
  Cortni: Yeah,
• 8:23
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I should have given you a warning before this episode.
• 8:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm a little spicy today.
• 8:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni knows that she's gonna try and hold me back a little.
• 8:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Go ahead Cortni.
• 8:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I know you were about to.
• 8:33
  Cortni: you back.
• 8:33
  Cortni: Not with those early morning workouts.
• 8:35
  Cortni: Nothing's stopping you.
• 8:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm down like 20 plus pounds
• 8:41
  Cortni: What?
• 8:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: about two and a half months,
• 8:44
  Cortni: Nice work.
• 8:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: and I feel fantastic.
• 8:48
  Cortni: That's awesome.
• 8:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And here's the cool thing.
• 8:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I still eat a lot of the foods that I enjoy.
• 8:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I do intermittent fasting.
• 8:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I love intermittent fasting.
• 9:00
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I did like a.
• 9:00
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It is either a 30 or a 40 hour fast.
• 9:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I can't remember.
• 9:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm not a big details person.
• 9:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I felt great.
• 9:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I loved it.
• 9:11
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 9:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I can fast and like I eat a lot of steak, I eat a lot of protein, protein shakes anyways, I'm loving it.
• 9:20
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I went to basketball today.
• 9:22
  Cortni: you have that will burn fat just by sitting there looking cute, like
• 9:27
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 9:28
  Cortni: keep building muscle that's just gonna burn fat for you.
• 9:30
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Exactly, and I went to basketball today, like I was running around like 10 years ago.
• 9:38
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I felt so energized and then I left basketball early so I could go lift weights and I just feel fantastic.
• 9:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So
• 9:45
  Cortni: Nice.
• 9:46
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I.
• 9:46
  Cortni: to say, you said the word autonomy.
• 9:48
  Cortni: That, that was a huge word for me and a big learning curve when we first started coaching years ago, was learning to give my oldest autonomy and letting him be who he is.
• 10:00
  Cortni: it's so important.
• 10:02
  Cortni: That is so important.
• 10:03
  Cortni: I'm glad you said that word.
• 10:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah, let's talk about programming for a minute, because recently I did a call with a.
• 10:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Mom and her teen and I brought up programming and this idea that I told the teenager, look dude, you have been programmed by school, religion, your parents, friends, you're getting programmed all over the place and this.
• 10:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Mom, like I, I totally get it.
• 10:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like she's a little bit concerned, like, Ben, what do you mean about programming?
• 10:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: What do you mean?
• 10:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That like, church has programmed my kid or that I have programmed my kid and here's how I like to think about programming.
• 10:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, Cortni, we'll just use you for my example.
• 10:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Have you ever driven somewhere, gotten to the location that you had driven to, and then you're like.
• 11:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: How did I even get here?
• 11:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like which route did I take?
• 11:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I don't even remember driving here.
• 11:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Has that ever happened to you?
• 11:09
  Cortni: I mean, I can't say I'm that perplexed, but yes, I'm on autopilot every day.
• 11:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah,
• 11:15
  Cortni: Hmm.
• 11:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: and here's the cool thing.
• 11:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Somehow your programming is sophisticated enough that you obeyed all the traffic laws and signals and you drove.
• 11:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: This vehicle, like cars are one of the, they're responsible for so many deaths in the US and yet on autopilot, you safely managed to take you and your whole family clear across town, safely and legally.
• 11:50
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 11:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: impressive.
• 11:52
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 11:53
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That is programming at its best.
• 11:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: oftentimes I also talk about programming in terms of like a layup.
• 12:02
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I like doing sports.
• 12:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I understand sports.
• 12:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: there are, there's this concept and, layups are a good example of this, but there's.
• 12:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: First you have, gosh, Jonah, how is it leaving my mind?
• 12:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You have unconscious incompetence.
• 12:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That means that you don't know that you suck at something.
• 12:23
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I had foster kids, it could have been the poster child for that.
• 12:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They would watch basketball and they'd see this dude do a layup and they'd be like.
• 12:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's so easy.
• 12:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I could do a layup and then we'd go to the gym and we'd be playing basketball and I'm like, bro, you suck at doing layups.
• 12:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: He went from unconscious incompetence.
• 12:41
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: He didn't know that he sucked at it.
• 12:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: To now conscious incompetence like, dang, layups are harder than I thought.
• 12:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like this morning I missed stupid shots and my team lost by two.
• 12:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I was pissed at myself.
• 12:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's part of the reason I went.
• 12:57
  Cortni: job Ben.
• 12:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I know seriously anyways, you go from unconscious incompetence to conscious incompetence.
• 13:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I didn't know I sucked.
• 13:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now I do know.
• 13:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Thank you very much.
• 13:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The next stage is conscious competence.
• 13:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So in terms of the layup, you thought you could do it.
• 13:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Then you found out, oh, layups are harder than I thought.
• 13:20
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I suck at this.
• 13:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now you're consciously like, okay, I gotta jump off the left foot, raise my right arm.
• 13:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like you have to consciously perform every step and you become competent.
• 13:34
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You're consciously competent.
• 13:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I can do it, but I have to think about it.
• 13:38
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The next step, and this is programming, the next step is when you can become.
• 13:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Unconsciously competent like this is like Steph Curry or LeBron James.
• 13:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They do not consciously think about how to do a layup.
• 13:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Every time they do it, it comes naturally.
• 13:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They don't even think about it.
• 13:59
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That is programming.
• 14:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now, here's the thing.
• 14:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I know programming can be a tough topic.
• 14:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But like Cortni, have you ever heard of the story?
• 14:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: There's like this mom who like cuts the ends off of her roast that she cooks on Sunday and puts it into the oven.
• 14:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And the husband's like, why do you do that?
• 14:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And she's like, I don't know.
• 14:22
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You got to, it just makes it taste better.
• 14:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: She's like, no, seriously.
• 14:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, why do you do that?
• 14:27
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And she's like.
• 14:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I don't know.
• 14:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's how my mom taught me.
• 14:29
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Let's call her and ask her, and they call the mom and they're like, mom, why do we cut the ends off of the roast?
• 14:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And she's like, I don't know.
• 14:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Maybe it makes it more tender.
• 14:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I don't know.
• 14:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's just what I learned from my mom.
• 14:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So then they called grandma and they're like, grandma, why do we cut the ends off of our roasts?
• 14:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And she's like, I don't know why you guys do it, but.
• 14:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: When I was doing it, we had a little pan that fit into our little oven and the whole roast didn't fit into the pan, so we had to cut the hands off.
• 14:58
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 14:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Oh, like programming is generational.
• 15:02
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like we have evidence to support this.
• 15:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you are religious, your children are more likely to be religious.
• 15:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you're a Republican or Democrat, your children are more likely to be Republican or Democrat.
• 15:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you like football and sports, your children are more likely to like football and sports.
• 15:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you, I feel like I had a really good example.
• 15:24
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Oh, if you're poor, like this is one of the most obvious ones.
• 15:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you are poor.
• 15:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Your parents were probably poor and your kids will probably be poor.
• 15:34
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like this is generational programming, and most people have no idea that they are currently being programmed, that they were programmed at a very young age, and that if they would only become aware of their programming, they would then have the power to choose new programming.
• 15:58
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 15:58
  Cortni: Do you think it was the word programming that that mom didn't like?
• 16:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And
• 16:03
  Cortni: does sound a little ugh.
• 16:05
  Cortni: But I mean, influenced is one, but influenced isn't, convey the message of like repeated over time like programming
• 16:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: yeah.
• 16:14
  Cortni: but wonder if it was the word programming.
• 16:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It totally could have been the word.
• 16:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I, I may, sometimes I use programming and brainwashed interchangeably.
• 16:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I could see how brainwashed it could rub someone the wrong way.
• 16:29
  Cortni: Probably
• 16:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Okay.
• 16:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Okay.
• 16:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Let's, let's talk about programming though.
• 16:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, do you know what this is?
• 16:38
  Cortni: it's an iPhone.
• 16:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: iPhone.
• 16:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 16:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: For all you people listening to the podcast, not watching our YouTube video, this is an iPhone.
• 16:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The cool thing about the iPhone, I'm actually checking mine right now.
• 16:52
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It periodically has updates.
• 16:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, why do iPhones have software updates?
• 17:02
  Cortni: for security measures, bugs fixes, and because things are always evolving.
• 17:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 17:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah, I'm really good.
• 17:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: My phone is currently up today, but the other day it was running a little sluggish.
• 17:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: A couple of my apps wouldn't work like my weather app.
• 17:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm like, well, the crap, why doesn't this work?
• 17:21
  Cortni: The crap.
• 17:22
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I updated my phone and it worked.
• 17:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Guys, I'm telling you, we all have programming that is not benefiting us anymore.
• 17:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And if you don't change that programming, that programming is going to continue to run in the background, creating the same old results that you don't like.
• 17:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I promise you, like me saying that you have been programmed from a young age.
• 17:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's not a knock on you, is not a knock on your religion.
• 17:59
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It is not a knock on your parents.
• 18:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It just is a part of being a human being.
• 18:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, I'm gonna take a guess.
• 18:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I know Cortni and I have the exact same programming when it comes to what language we speak.
• 18:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We can do it without any thought, like we're unconsciously competent in speaking English.
• 18:22
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you're listening to this PO podcast, chances are high that you've been programmed to speak English as well.
• 18:29
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And here's the thing, if you move to freaking China.
• 18:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: English is not gonna serve you as well.
• 18:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That programming is no longer as relevant as it was before.
• 18:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I served a two year mission in Argentina.
• 18:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: All my programming in English didn't help me.
• 18:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I had to update my programming.
• 18:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I had to add another language to my programming, which unfortunately I never did very well.
• 18:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I wasn't.
• 18:59
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I wasn't the type of missionary that people would be like, wow, you sound like a native.
• 19:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Nope, not me.
• 19:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They're like, man, you're from America.
• 19:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But still, I had to update my programming and one of the things that I see a lot is this fear that our kids are going to choose to update their programming without the gospel or without football.
• 19:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Or without basketball.
• 19:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And the truth is we are not responsible for our kids programming.
• 19:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like Sure.
• 19:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like from the time they're born till about six, seven, six, seven.
• 19:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Oh.
• 19:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Anyway, so annoying.
• 19:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And now I guys, I can't help myself.
• 19:47
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I coach teenagers all day long, but like six to like nine years old.
• 19:53
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like that's when this programming is being really instilled.
• 19:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If your teenager is older than like a 9-year-old, a lot of that programming is already set.
• 20:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You no longer have the power to really deeply program your kid.
• 20:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: That's now up to them and it's time for them to identify.
• 20:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like if your teenager is constantly picking on their little siblings, that's programming.
• 20:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And if we can help you,
• 20:24
  Cortni: him?
• 20:24
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: what's that?
• 20:25
  Cortni: How can I deprogram him from picking on his siblings?
• 20:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You can't.
• 20:29
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: He has to, but here's how I do it like this.
• 20:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Mom also asked about like some of the values that I teach guys when I teach about values.
• 20:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I don't know anyone who teaches values like I do.
• 20:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Some of the things that are different about how I teach it, the first step is you gotta learn how to identify your own values.
• 20:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Be aware of the values that are driving you, because most people have no idea.
• 20:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They have values.
• 20:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Speaking of programming, they have values that were programmed very early on, like maybe you value the newest tech and you gotta have the newest iPhone and the newest Tesla vehicle and a smart home, and all this stuff.
• 21:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But you can't really afford to pay for all of that.
• 21:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And so that old programming is causing you to be in debt.
• 21:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And at some point you might question like, do I want that old programming?
• 21:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, do I need all the new stuff, even if that makes me go in debt, or could I have like last year's model?
• 21:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And you're just aware of your programming and now you have the power to choose.
• 21:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The thing about values, we, most of us were programmed to have specific values.
• 21:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We all grew up in a similar environment, like we're all in the us.
• 21:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like being patriotic is a big value.
• 21:46
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: America's the best country in the whole wide universe.
• 21:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And like these are programming and when you can understand, oh.
• 21:55
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: These are the values that drive me, and this is why are those the values that I want to have or not?
• 22:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And now you have the power to choose and you can start changing your values.
• 22:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And when you understand your own values, that helps you then be able to understand your teenager's values and when you can understand your teenager's values.
• 22:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, this comes back to your question of how do I
• 22:18
  Cortni: Hmm.
• 22:18
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: unprogram my child for the picking on younger siblings problem.
• 22:23
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The thing is, if you can understand their values, you can start to teach based on their values.
• 22:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And the mistake that most parents make is they try and teach our kids based on their own values.
• 22:35
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 22:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like, look, it's important for me to look good for the neighbors.
• 22:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So quit picking on the kids in the backyard like all the neighbors can hear and like go to the basement to pick on them.
• 22:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But if you can teach your child that same concept through their values.
• 22:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now you can start to have influence as to their programming and their values.
• 22:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So I would ask something like, yo dude, what would happen?
• 23:02
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Wait, does he have a girlfriend?
• 23:04
  Cortni: Oh yeah.
• 23:05
  Cortni: They've been together for almost a year and a half.
• 23:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Is she one of his top values?
• 23:09
  Cortni: Oh, for, oh, for sure.
• 23:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: What?
• 23:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: What's his higher volleyball?
• 23:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Or the girlfriend?
• 23:14
  Cortni: I don't know.
• 23:14
  Cortni: I can ask him.
• 23:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Well, just, you'll, he won't know either.
• 23:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You can just watch and you can figure it out.
• 23:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So my second oldest, right now, his highest value is his girlfriend.
• 23:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Probably number two is basketball, which is unfortunate because I, I always broke up with my girlfriends and time for football season because football was my top value.
• 23:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But whatever.
• 23:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you could like teach your son, like, look dude, would you ever treat your girlfriend the way that you're treating your little siblings?
• 23:48
  Cortni: And I ask that all the time.
• 23:49
  Cortni: I ask him, I'm like, do you talk to your girlfriend the way you talk to me?
• 23:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 23:54
  Cortni: hope not.
• 23:55
  Cortni: Like I, no.
• 23:56
  Cortni: I ask him those questions.
• 23:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 23:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And
• 23:57
  Cortni: a
• 23:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: here's the thing, what does he say when you're like, do you talk to her the way you talk to me?
• 24:02
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 24:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now ask him the next question.
• 24:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Why not?
• 24:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: What would happen if you treated your girlfriend the way that you're treating me right now?
• 24:11
  Cortni: I
• 24:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You're just
• 24:12
  Cortni: that question.
• 24:13
  Cortni: I should.
• 24:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: planting little seeds
• 24:16
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 24:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: and notice we can't control his programming anymore, like it's done.
• 24:22
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We already programmed him.
• 24:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now it's up to him to choose whether or not he wants to update the programming.
• 24:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And the thing that I always teach my kids like how you do one thing is how you do everything.
• 24:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If you are willing to treat your siblings this way, when you're pissed off, at some point you will treat your spouse and your children that way when you're pissed off, because that's the programming.
• 24:46
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And so I'm just teaching, making my kids aware of their programming and I'm using their own values to reinforce a new or a different way.
• 24:59
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: This is the power of understanding values, programming, all of this.
• 25:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It helps us as parents be able to support our kids.
• 25:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Go ahead, Cortni.
• 25:08
  Cortni: I, I feel like this could be tied into.
• 25:12
  Cortni: Being the change you want to see.
• 25:13
  Cortni: I mean, kids don't necessarily, no, not necessarily.
• 25:17
  Cortni: They don't do what we tell them to do.
• 25:19
  Cortni: They will do more what they see.
• 25:21
  Cortni: So if we can be that example for our kids, you know, if I make more of an effort and pay attention to how I talk to my teenager.
• 25:28
  Cortni: 'cause I'm sure I catch myself every once in a while being snippy like he is and I'm like, oh, I wonder where he gets it.
• 25:33
  Cortni: I think if we can be that example that.
• 25:37
  Cortni: I mean, listen, it's not about me today.
• 25:40
  Cortni: we can be that example, I feel like that's huge.
• 25:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 25:43
  Cortni: in changing our programming.
• 25:45
  Cortni: Our kids will learn from us.
• 25:47
  Cortni: Maybe not right away, but you know, it's a good examples, hopefully.
• 25:52
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: the, if you look at what's like, I'm not political, I don't really care about politics one side or the other, but one of the things I do notice is that where.
• 26:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Close to a breaking point and people are worried about that, and I'm like, bring it on.
• 26:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like we got to address this stuff.
• 26:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We gotta get through the ugly and the thing people like, oh, so I listen to leadership and self-deception again.
• 26:30
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I then was like, you know what?
• 26:32
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I gotta listen to the Anatomy of peace, which I apparently hadn't listened to.
• 26:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: The one I had listened to is the other one by the ar Arbinger Institute that is more like formulaic and is like, well, here's how you do it anyways, the anatomy of peace is fantastic.
• 26:51
  Cortni: Is it.
• 26:52
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It like goes back in time to when I struggle remembering the character's names.
• 27:00
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Lou Herbert, I think is the boss of,
• 27:04
  Cortni: yeah.
• 27:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: so it goes back in time and talks about when he dropped his child off at that wilderness camp.
• 27:13
  Cortni: Okay.
• 27:14
  Cortni: Okay.
• 27:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Anyways, fantastic.
• 27:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I loved it.
• 27:18
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Anyways, the reason I, I don't even remember why I brought that up now, but.
• 27:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I think it had to do with Cortni's like be the change.
• 27:29
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Often guys, we are so worried about changing our children and we don't have the power to change our children.
• 27:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I guess maybe I misspoke right now because I think if I were to ask parents if they were trying to change our children, I think most parents would be like, no, I don't wanna change'em.
• 27:48
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Because they want to keep'em the same as what they were when they were like seven or eight and just did everything.
• 27:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: But like, if you are worried about your team, like leaving the church or, let's just talk about leaving the church right now because I know several parents that are like mortified by that.
• 28:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Here's the thing.
• 28:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Keeping your child in the church against their will is not going to benefit them as much as letting, like go read the Prodigal son story, like the kid had to go out into the world like eat slop with the pigs and realize, oh, that's not who I want to be.
• 28:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm gonna go back to my roots.
• 28:33
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm gonna try something different.
• 28:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I think we live in a time and in a world where we have been.
• 28:41
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Lied to.
• 28:42
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We've been programmed to think that there's a right and that there's a wrong,
• 28:46
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 28:47
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: and that I'm right and that you are wrong.
• 28:49
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like honestly, that's why Republicans and Democrats hate each other because they're so convinced that they're right and the other person's wrong.
• 28:57
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: They can't even fathom that maybe we're both right and we're both wrong.
• 29:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like I don't know.
• 29:02
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: How could that be anyways, if you can give your teenager the autonomy.
• 29:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: To go explore.
• 29:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Go figure out who am I, who do I want to be?
• 29:15
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like teens have no idea.
• 29:16
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I've got a 19-year-old that I just sent off to college and he's learning pretty quick that, oh, it's different as an adult.
• 29:25
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Anyways, I hope I didn't come off too harsh.
• 29:28
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, have I been too brutal today?
• 29:31
  Cortni: Not at all.
• 29:32
  Cortni: I, I was expecting more of a blaze when you said you were fiery,
• 29:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: No.
• 29:36
  Cortni: good.
• 29:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 29:38
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Even when I am fiery, I, one of the best compliments I got from one of my football players this year, so we lost a few games that we shouldn't have lost and I get heated and I yell, and one time we had, I called the time out just like I could yell at my players.
• 29:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And while the other team was walking away, I'm like, they're not even that good.
• 30:00
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We're just beating ourselves.
• 30:01
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I made sure that they could hear.
• 30:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Anyways, the compliment this player gave me, he is like, even when we're losing, even when you're yelling at us, like you're still like, not that bad.
• 30:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: You're not calling us names, you're not throwing stuff at us.
• 30:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm like, have you had coaches that throw stuff at you?
• 30:19
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: He is like, yeah.
• 30:20
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Last year one of our coaches threw a water, water bottle at one of the players.
• 30:24
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And I'm like.
• 30:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah, I do a pretty good job.
• 30:27
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Like even when I'm fired up, like this is who I try to be and I don't know.
• 30:34
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: This is,
• 30:34
  Cortni: of the box, you, they can feel the regard.
• 30:36
  Cortni: So regardless of the behavior, well they can feel, you can do both actions in or outta the box,
• 30:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: yeah.
• 30:44
  Cortni: So you are, they can feel the regard and they know that it's coming from a good place, even though it might be louder than normal
• 30:51
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Cortni: and you might be a little redder in the face than normal.
• 30:54
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: No, I do get red in the face.
• 30:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I'm already red.
• 30:57
  Cortni: I can see
• 30:58
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And then you add anger to that and I get like two shades deeper.
• 31:03
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: this has been a long podcast.
• 31:05
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I apologize for that.
• 31:06
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Let me just leave you with this guys.
• 31:09
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So.
• 31:10
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I have coached a lot of parents and I have coached a lot of teenagers, and I would say that quite often one of the biggest fears that parents come to me with is that my teen is making the wrong choice.
• 31:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Now, whether that wrong choice is leaving the church, dating the wrong boy or girl, choosing the wrong gender.
• 31:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Choosing the wrong political party.
• 31:39
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I've had that one doing the wrong drugs.
• 31:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Okay.
• 31:44
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I typically think all drugs are wrong, but whatever the thing is, that will have a profoundly harmful.
• 31:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: On your relationship with your team, the whole concept of right or wrong, especially if it gets to the point of I'm right and you are wrong, that will be very detrimental to your child's relationship with you and your relationship with them.
• 32:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: So the invitation that I would give you.
• 32:21
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Do not be afraid when your teenager thinks differently than you.
• 32:26
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 32:26
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Do not be afraid when your teenager questions the programming that you worked very hard to program your child with.
• 32:36
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I want you to just be able to take a step back and understand.
• 32:41
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: This is not only healthy, this is exactly what your teen needs to better know who they want to be and more intentionally choose to be that way.
• 32:53
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: And if we have to go the prodigal sun route and your child is doing things that you completely disagree with, the thing that's gonna bring him back.
• 33:04
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Is not who's right and who's wrong.
• 33:07
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: It will be your relationship with your child.
• 33:11
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 33:11
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: be your child knowing that you love them even though they're wrong.
• 33:15
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 33:17
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 33:17
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: and no one wants to come back to you if they're gonna get the CI told you so I was right and you were wrong.
• 33:23
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 33:24
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 33:26
  Cortni: I love that.
• 33:28
  Cortni: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Cortni: Great.
• 33:31
  Cortni: We can end there.
• 33:32
  Cortni: I think that was like Mitra.
• 33:33
  Cortni: I love that.
• 33:34
  Cortni: I,
• 33:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Let's go ahead and end there guys.
• 33:38
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I love y'all.
• 33:40
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I hope I didn't come across as too harsh.
• 33:43
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I just this week has like, this has been one of those weeks and I just want to know you got someone who is here ready to support you and whether it's me, whether it's Cortni.
• 33:56
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni, one of these days, I'm just gonna train you how to be one of my coaches and then people can sign up with you because they'll be like, gotta take Ben's temperature first.
• 34:06
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: If he's too spicy, I'll choose.
• 34:08
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Cortni,
• 34:09
  Cortni: Oh, I'm just so sweet and innocent?
• 34:12
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I,
• 34:12
  Cortni: I get fiery.
• 34:13
  Cortni: Trust me.
• 34:14
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: I can see a halo just floating above your head.
• 34:17
  Cortni: there.
• 34:18
  Cortni: It's, it is always there, but I turn red in the face too.
• 34:22
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Oh,
• 34:23
  Cortni: Mm-hmm.
• 34:23
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: we're basically twins, so.
• 34:27
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Identical, but not the same gender.
• 34:29
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: No, that doesn't.
• 34:30
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Okay.
• 34:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Okay.
• 34:31
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Let's let the people go before this PO Podcast devolves.
• 34:35
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Guys, come back next week.
• 34:37
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: We love having you here, and we'll be ready to talk to you about whatever else is on our mind and how to apply it to parenting.
• 34:45
  ben_7_10-24-2025_082231: Talk to you soon.