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The Only Thing Causing Chaos in the Markets Right Now · Suze Orman's Women & Money (And Everyone Smart Enough To Listen)

0:19
Suze: March 29, 2026. Welcome everybody to the Women and Money podcast,
0:24
Suze: and everybody smart enough to listen, especially today cause Fitz
0:29
Suze: is with us, so I'm going to get right to it.
0:33
Suze: Hey Fitz, how are you?
0:35
Keith: I'm doing great, thanks as always for having me.
0:37
Suze: All right, so can we just talk? I need to talk
0:39
Suze: to somebody because I'm just like so frustrated I can't
0:43
Suze: even tell you. So let me tell you why, and
0:46
Suze: I'm sure everybody listening, and they're probably feeling the same way.
0:51
Suze: The fundamentals of the stocks that are on the stock exchange,
0:56
Suze: meaning their earnings, how they're doing, their profitability, have been solid.
1:03
Suze: So the fundamentals behind this entire market were so strong
1:09
Suze: until somebody decided, let's change that, and they went after Iran,
1:16
Suze: and now we have oil.
1:19
Suze: And now we're watching oil go up and up and up,
1:23
Suze: and sometimes it comes back down, and when it comes
1:26
Suze: back down, that's when we see the markets go up.
1:30
Suze: Is that correct?
1:31
Keith: That's absolutely correct, and it's correct because of all the
1:33
Keith: leverage between the oil and everything else in the market, Suze.
1:37
Suze: All right, so here we are. Oil is at its
1:42
Suze: like high since July of 2022, right? Everything now seems
1:48
Suze: to be simply dependent on one thing and one thing only,
1:52
Suze: and that is oil in my opinion. And when we
1:55
Suze: have a market
1:57
Suze: that is absolutely being destroyed in so many ways based
2:02
Suze: on one thing known as oil. What do you tell
2:05
Suze: people to do now, Keith? What do we do?
2:08
Keith: Well, there's two things. Stay in if you can. Number two,
2:11
Keith: remember that psychology is driving all this. The businesses are great.
2:14
Keith: In fact, the business case for owning many of these
2:16
Keith: companies is getting stronger. So what you gotta do now
2:19
Keith: is imagine you're on a boat out the ocean. The
2:21
Keith: waves have picked up. If you jump off, you're gonna
2:23
Keith: have a problem. You just gotta wait this one out.
2:25
Suze: But you know, it's so easy to say that. I
2:28
Suze: know it's like I'm gonna wait it out, but here
2:30
Suze: I am. Many of my tech stocks are down 20,
2:34
Suze: 30, 50%. Some of them you have some stocks that
2:39
Suze: are down 5%, 10%. You now have the NASDAQ, the
2:44
Suze: Standard and Poor's, all essentially pretty much in correction territory.
2:48
Suze: You have gold that has absolutely lost at least $1,000
2:52
Suze: an ounce. You have Bitcoin that has no ability to
2:56
Suze: do anything but go down, especially in the case of war.
3:00
Suze: So where do people run or hide, cause it kind
3:03
Suze: of feels like to me, there's no place to go,
3:07
Suze: there's nothing to do, so what should they do?
3:10
Suze: Besides just keep what they have?
3:12
Keith: Well, respectfully, I push back on that a little bit,
3:14
Keith: and here's why is a company like Chevron, which we
3:17
Keith: of course talked about for months and months and months
3:19
Keith: leading into this, is a global producer with dinosaur juice
3:23
Keith: that we're gonna need for a very, very long time.
3:25
Keith: It's got a great dividend and it's very stable. So
3:28
Keith: if you're freaked out because all of your tech has
3:30
Keith: gone one direction, you can balance that like a little
3:32
Keith: kid's teeter totter on the playground with a
3:34
Keith: stock like Chevron, or you can go into something like S-Gov,
3:38
Keith: which is short term US Treasuries, super safe, great yield,
3:41
Keith: not going to go anywhere you can sleep at night.
3:43
Keith: So there are still choices, even though the ocean's getting
3:47
Keith: a little bumpy or a little spicy.
3:49
Suze: So I just have to go back to the Chevron
3:51
Suze: because that was your number one energy pick. And the
3:54
Suze: last time that you were on, you said it is
3:57
Suze: my number one...
3:58
Suze: It was about 189, 190, maybe the next Monday, whenever
4:03
Suze: it came on, it went down to 187 and all
4:05
Suze: these people, not all of them, but if it's one,
4:10
Suze: it was too many. They said, no way are we
4:13
Suze: listening to the two of you. How can you be
4:16
Suze: buying something at its high? You don't buy it at
4:20
Suze: its high. You wait till it comes down.
4:22
Suze: And now here we are. And where is it at
4:25
Suze: the close of Friday?
4:27
Keith: Oh, it's up in the 200s.
4:28
Suze: Yeah. So last I looked at it was like 206, 207, 208.
4:32
Suze: It's trading right in there still with a decent sized dividend.
4:36
Suze: So when people look at their stocks and they go,
4:40
Suze: Oh my God, it's so high, it's so high. I
4:43
Suze: have to wait until it goes down.
4:47
Suze: Can you just tell them what a big mistake that
4:49
Suze: is and why?
4:51
Keith: Sure, take a look at a chart. Pick any stock
4:53
Keith: you want, just any of the household names that we've
4:55
Keith: talked about, any of the stocks you own. Zoom out
4:58
Keith: to 20 years and tell me that that chart doesn't
5:00
Keith: go high to low, low to high over that time period.
5:03
Keith: So it feels bad at moments in time, but when
5:06
Keith: in doubt, you zoom out and you take a much
5:08
Keith: bigger picture because a quality company is gonna be there
5:11
Keith: when you need it.
5:12
Keith: Regardless of the short term noise, and that's the perspective
5:15
Keith: that so many people miss. You've gotta just simply relax,
5:19
Keith: look at that bigger picture, because many times, for example,
5:23
Keith: in early 2000, Amazon lost 97% of its value. That's
5:27
Keith: incomprehensible to people today. They simply forget their history. We're
5:30
Keith: gonna get through this and stocks like Chevron, which people
5:33
Keith: argue about with me till they're blue in the face,
5:36
Keith: continue to go up over time.
5:38
Suze: So I hear you.
5:40
Suze: Maybe a few people that have time on their side
5:42
Suze: and everything and they understand all this hear you.
5:46
Suze: But the majority of the people are like, stop telling
5:49
Suze: me to zoom out. Stop telling me just to be patient.
5:52
Suze: I'm totally freaked out. So you know how at the
5:57
Suze: end of last year, Keith, we had a thing where
6:00
Suze: we were telling everybody, you know, in 2025, we think
6:05
Suze: that the Standard and Poor's is going to end up
6:07
Suze: at like 7,000, 7,400. We were so optimistic.
6:12
Suze: I'm having a hard time being optimistic right now. I
6:16
Suze: understand holding on to everything we have. I also understand
6:21
Suze: that this whole market is based on oil, and it
6:25
Suze: was just announced on Friday that chances are we're still
6:28
Suze: gonna be there two or four more weeks. We have
6:30
Suze: thousands of soldiers going there, all right, so...
6:36
Suze: If you look at the markets right now.
6:39
Suze: And they continue like this, and you see oil at 120, 125.
6:43
Suze: Where do you think the downside could be at this
6:46
Suze: point in time? I personally think it's really easy to
6:49
Suze: see the Standard and Poor's down at about 6,000 when
6:53
Suze: it's at 6,300 right now. What do you think?
6:56
Keith: Well, I think that's not impossible either, you know, and
6:58
Keith: the trick is the selling is going to continue until
7:00
Keith: all the leverage exhausts itself. That's the unknown here. It's
7:03
Keith: not the politics. It's not the individual in the White House.
7:06
Keith: It's not the conflict, it's the fact that Wall Street
7:09
Keith: is doing what's called resetting risk, Suze. They're simply looking
7:12
Keith: around the globe and going, where's the certainty, and it
7:14
Keith: doesn't exist right now. But the certainty, if you and
7:17
Keith: I look at it as investors, is the individual companies,
7:20
Keith: the Chevrons of the world with the great earnings, the dividend,
7:23
Keith: the S-Govs of the world where we can park our cash,
7:25
Keith: stash it for safety. That's stuff we can control rather
7:28
Keith: than worrying about the stuff we can't, and it's hard,
7:31
Suze: You know, you just said the word certainty.
7:34
Suze: And the reason that these markets don't go up and
7:38
Suze: stay up is people are buying because of what we
7:42
Suze: both call FOMO. They are afraid of missing out. And
7:46
Suze: so they see it go down a little, and then
7:48
Suze: they go, they've got to get it, and then it
7:49
Suze: goes up and they go, I caught it, and then
7:51
Suze: it goes right back down. The trick, everybody, and tell
7:55
Suze: me if you agree with me, Keith, is that once
7:59
Suze: things are certain.
8:01
Suze: And people really feel like, oh, oil's calmed down, this
8:05
Suze: has happened, whatever it is, and they're buying because it's
8:09
Suze: a good investment. They know what's happening out there. Don't
8:14
Suze: you think when that eventually happens that we probably will
8:18
Suze: see these markets skyrocket again?
8:21
Keith: Oh, there's no doubt. I agree with you
8:22
Keith: 100% when certainty returns we're gonna get a rip your
8:25
Keith: face off rally and everybody who thinks they're being smart
8:28
Keith: by stepping out right now is gonna get left behind.
8:31
Keith: So that's the, that's really the trade-off you gotta make
8:33
Keith: today is how much do you want to risk that
8:35
Keith: FOMO versus a logical controlled investing process over time even
8:41
Keith: if it scares the snot out of you.
8:43
Suze: And you know it's not just oil. Look at what
8:46
Suze: happened to bonds. You have a 10 year treasury now
8:52
Suze: at 4.4%, 4.5%. You have almost a 30 year at 5% again.
8:58
Suze: What does that indicate to you and what would you
9:01
Suze: be telling people to do when interest rates are getting
9:04
Suze: higher like they are right now?
9:06
Keith: Well, the logical trade-off is that's when you start looking
9:08
Keith: at do I wanna stash my cash or do I
9:10
Keith: wanna continue to take risk. What it really is is
9:13
Keith: not just yield on your money, it's a reflection of
9:15
Keith: global risk. And right now global traders, not investors, traders,
9:19
Keith: and there's a distinction, are saying, oh, it's risky, but
9:22
Keith: investors are saying, OK, I can do something with that 4%.
9:25
Keith: That's good to me. I can get a return on
9:27
Keith: my money as opposed to
9:29
Keith: the return of my money, which is what traders are
9:31
Keith: concerned about.
9:32
Suze: We talk about stocks a lot, but we also have
9:35
Suze: to talk about something that almost everybody has, which is
9:38
Suze: real estate. Do they sell? Do they buy? And the
9:42
Suze: truth of the matter is, everybody, oil affects everything, and
9:47
Suze: you have really got to get that. And it also affects...
9:52
Suze: The lumber, everything that you're using to build homes, to renovate,
9:56
Suze: and all of those things, when you combine that along
9:59
Suze: with interest rates being higher because when the 10 year
10:04
Suze: goes up, guess what else goes up, everybody? Your mortgage interest.
10:09
Suze: So if you're looking for a new mortgage right now,
10:11
Suze: remember how just a little bit ago, Keith, we were like,
10:13
Suze: oh 5.55%, we went in there for a 30 year.
10:17
Suze: Now we're back at almost 6.5 and it's going to
10:20
Suze: go higher. So would you be an investor in real
10:23
Suze: estate right now? And if so, how would you be
10:26
Suze: investing in it?
10:27
Keith: Oh, that's a great question. It actually is going to
10:29
Keith: bring me right back to a favorite choice of yours
10:31
Keith: and mine, Care Trust. It's a real estate investment trust.
10:34
Keith: kicks off great income, but specifically it's a specialized trust
10:38
Keith: that cares for medicine, recovery care after surgery. So as
10:42
Keith: we
10:42
Keith: get older as we all need medical care. This is
10:44
Keith: one of the few areas of real estate where you
10:46
Keith: have a very dynamic yet calm, placid, dependable approach going forward.
10:51
Keith: It's much better than individual real estate, in my opinion,
10:53
Keith: at this moment.
10:54
Suze: You still love Chevron. You're still buying Chevron, right?
10:58
Keith: Oh yeah, bought some more today, as a matter of fact.
11:00
Suze: So you know what's funny is a few days ago
11:02
Suze: on my Women and Money Community app, I posted a
11:05
Suze: chart of Chevron.
11:08
Suze: And I posted it just without any reason why, and
11:12
Suze: everybody's like, is she telling us to buy more? Is
11:14
Suze: she telling us to sell? What should she be telling
11:17
Suze: us to do? Why?
11:18
Suze: The reason I posted it was to say to all
11:21
Suze: of you that were doubters, it's not over, everybody, that
11:25
Suze: no matter where oil goes, this is still a solid stock.
11:30
Suze: So let's just get that out of the way. Even
11:33
Suze: right here, Keith would be buying more. When it comes
11:37
Suze: to a dividend paying stock to have some diversification within there.
11:42
Suze: Both of us really still like Care Trust. I think
11:46
Suze: the symbol is.
11:46
Suze: Is it CTRE or C R T E? What is it?
11:50
Suze: Something like that.
11:51
Keith: CTRE, I believe.
11:52
Keith: All right, and it's paying a really nice dividend, like
11:55
Keith: about 3.5, 3.7%. Still. We're all getting older. Is that true, Keith?
12:02
Keith: No, we're just, we're, we're just getting younger, but we're
12:05
Keith: celebrating more frequent birthdays.
12:06
Suze: Oh, is that what's happening here? You have to look
12:09
Suze: at everybody. What's happening in the United States as we are,
12:12
Suze: we're getting older and older and older.
12:15
Suze: So if you're gonna go into an REIT.
12:19
Suze: And you want a good dividend, do it in an
12:22
Suze: area that's not gonna become obsolete, that is going to
12:25
Suze: be able to help everybody that's getting older so it's
12:29
Suze: safe there when it comes to individual real estate, Keith,
12:32
Suze: buying a home right now, selling a home right now,
12:36
Suze: what would you tell everybody?
12:38
Keith: Well, I think that if you can pay off your
12:40
Keith: home right now and you own it and you're comfortable
12:43
Keith: in it, then stay put because you don't know what
12:45
Keith: the real estate market's gonna do if your pockets of
12:48
Keith: places that are
12:49
Keith: growing great. Maybe you'll get lucky, but you know we're
12:51
Keith: seeing a lot of sellers walk away. So, so I
12:53
Keith: would just, you know, just tread lightly, tread carefully, tread intelligently.
12:57
Keith: But meanwhile continue to invest in something like Care Trust.
13:00
Suze: Yeah, but you know, here's the truth, not many people
13:02
Suze: have the ability to just pay off their homes. I know.
13:05
Suze: So just think about where the future is going and
13:09
Suze: what you can do to protect your tomorrow's today. All right,
13:14
Suze: so now we've given them two more stocks. Now, obviously.
13:19
Suze: the technology has absolutely been obliterated, not just 5%, but 30-40%.
13:26
Suze: If you had a number one technology pick right now,
13:31
Suze: what would you be picking?
13:33
Keith: No question about it: Microsoft.
13:35
Suze: All right, now, Microsoft's been obliterated just again on Friday.
13:39
Suze: It's been obliterated every day. Tell everybody why that would
13:43
Suze: be your number one technology pick.
13:46
Keith: Because this is a stock that is on the cusp
13:48
Keith: of transforming our planet. It's a stock that billions of
13:52
Keith: people depend on to bring them together. It's not just
13:54
Keith: about the software anymore. It's about the AI. It's about
13:56
Keith: the working together. It's about the data transmission, the data reception,
14:00
Keith: how you can process stuff, the co-pilots it's rolling out.
14:03
Keith: This company has its fingers in so many different pies,
14:06
Keith: all of which are essential to our world. It's got
14:09
Keith: a global footprint.
14:10
Keith: You know, it's being thrown out with the bathwater right now,
14:12
Keith: and that's a function of the large traders because Microsoft
14:16
Keith: itself is financially very, very sound and very, very capable
14:20
Keith: and growing rapidly.
14:21
Suze: If you're going to be buying Microsoft right now, you
14:23
Suze: don't own any of it. How would you stage into it?
14:28
Keith: Well, I would buy a little bit at first and
14:30
Keith: then I would very carefully, deliberately take, you know, whatever
14:33
Keith: amount of money it is. I'd look out 12 months,
14:35
Keith: I'd divide it by 12 and I would invest that
14:37
Keith: amount per month religiously, up or down, doesn't matter, grit
14:41
Keith: your teeth if you have to, smile if you want to,
14:43
Keith: but consistently over the next
14:45
Keith: 12 months just split it up, slow down your buying,
14:47
Keith: but continue the dollar cost average in. Because that is
14:50
Keith: how you make this kind of volatility that's scary and
14:53
Keith: nasty actually work for you. So Suze, I have a
14:56
Keith: question for you. What would you say to somebody who says,
14:58
Keith: I've got to invest in Europe right now? That's a
15:00
Keith: very popular line of thinking.
15:02
Suze: Well, I would tell them probably to think about it.
15:05
Suze: Japan has done very well this year. The European dividend
15:09
Suze: paying ETFs are up like 55% this year. So I
15:14
Suze: think that it doesn't hurt to have some diversification, but truthfully, Keith...
15:20
Suze: I'm a United States kind of gal. I like investing
15:24
Suze: right here, knowing what I'm investing in, and this isn't
15:28
Suze: the time to be, I'm not going to invest anymore.
15:31
Suze: I'm not going to do anything.
15:32
Keith: So, on days where this stuff really hits the fan,
15:35
Keith: you're terrified, you're uncertain, I will often buy a single
15:39
Keith: share of something.
15:41
Keith: Just one share because either that's the money I had
15:44
Keith: available to me when I was young or even today
15:46
Keith: because it helps me stay in the game because I
15:50
Keith: know I'm playing to win and so even one share
15:53
Keith: psychologically is more valuable than any of the nonsense or
15:56
Keith: any of the news or maybe even the stock itself.
15:59
Suze: I'm still an investor, but I'm still watching.
16:03
Suze: But there are so many people really that are just
16:06
Suze: so frozen right now, and what I really wanted everybody
16:09
Suze: to understand is this really isn't about the stock market.
16:13
Keith: No.
16:14
Suze: This really has almost nothing to do with the stock market. Everybody,
16:20
Suze: before Iran, and we'll let Keith reiterate this, how great
16:26
Suze: were the earnings, the fundamentals, everything, just looking at the
16:31
Suze: stocks and the companies themselves, almost all of them.
16:36
Suze: How great were they?
16:38
Keith: Well, 92% of them reported earnings and and EPS surprises
16:41
Keith: of 70 some odd percent of the above expectations. We had
16:45
Keith: a blended growth rate of 14% for the S&P 500.
16:48
Keith: We had growth rates that were averaging upward trajectory in
16:51
Keith: terms of the ratings that analysts were assigning to them.
16:55
Keith: The CEOs were very positive. So if you look at
16:58
Keith: what that fabric looks like, it was growth. It was positive.
17:01
Keith: It was things that you want to hear.
17:03
Keith: So, it's all the headlines and the social media and
17:05
Keith: the angst that has really clouded things and, and I
17:09
Keith: think it's, it's a very tough spot to be in.
17:11
Keith: It's scary. I mean, I'm a parent, I'm a husband,
17:12
Keith: I'm a father. I, I, I feel all this angst too,
17:15
Keith: but that shows you're human and you're paying attention. So,
17:18
Keith: one of the things I've learned over the years, strange
17:20
Keith: as it sounds, is whenever I get to feel like
17:22
Keith: this way, it means I got to lean in because
17:24
Keith: it means there's opportunity. And again, I, I've learned that
17:26
Keith: lesson the hard way. I've, I thought I was being smart.
17:29
Keith: I bailed out, I made mistakes, I lost money.
17:31
Keith: But if you continue to lean in when you feel
17:33
Keith: that way and you get uncomfortable, I've learned that that's
17:35
Keith: a heck of a lot more profitable if you can
17:37
Keith: do it.
17:38
Suze: So if you just heard all those numbers that can
17:41
Suze: drive you crazy that you've just said, all right.
17:44
Suze: And you could understand that the companies themselves, we'll see
17:48
Suze: what happens next earnings season, but the companies themselves fundamentally
17:54
Suze: are strong right now and really the culprit that has
18:00
Suze: pulled out the rug underneath every one of these stocks,
18:04
Suze: the stock market...
18:05
Suze: The treasury, everything is oil. It all, in my opinion,
18:11
Suze: boils down to oil and do not be surprised if
18:16
Suze: you don't see oil continue to go up and up
18:20
Suze: and up, and it will not be until this is solved.
18:24
Suze: You'll have to tell me if you agree, Keith, until
18:26
Suze: this problem is solved that you're going to see a
18:30
Suze: stock market that has a clue of what it wants
18:32
Suze: to do. What do you think?
18:35
Keith: Agreed, agreed, and agreed, and when that happens, the prices
18:39
Keith: are gonna crater so fast people's heads are gonna spin,
18:41
Keith: which of course means the stock market is gonna go
18:43
Keith: the other direction, so we'll all get to smile and
18:46
Keith: relax a little bit when that happens.
18:47
Suze: So in just recapping the rules of the game again
18:52
Suze: are you only invest with money.
18:55
Suze: That you have at least five, 10, 15 years that
18:59
Suze: you will need, all right, you don't invest with money
19:02
Suze: that you're going to need next month or a down
19:05
Suze: payment on a home or whatever. Talk about diversification, Keith.
19:09
Keith: Well, diversification as it used to work, it doesn't work
19:12
Keith: any longer. So what you want to do is think
19:14
Keith: intelligently about diversifying in the right
19:16
Keith: companies and themes, that's the stuff that's gonna make you
19:20
Keith: a fortune over time. So diversification, the new way to
19:23
Keith: do it is to follow things like the AI, like
19:26
Keith: the oil, like the politics we're talking about, because that's
19:29
Keith: where the money concentrates and it crosses all the different industries.
19:32
Keith: So stick to quality, buy the best, ignore the rest.
19:35
Keith: As trite as that sounds, it's a path to profits.
19:38
Suze: Alright, so hopefully everybody subscribes to your 5 with Fitz.
19:43
Suze: Tell them what 5 with Fitz is, Keith.
19:45
Keith: Oh boy, you are very kind. So I began the
19:47
Keith: 5 with Fits personally and I've written it for myself
19:50
Keith: for decades because it helps me clarify my thinking. It's free.
19:53
Keith: It will always be free, but it's literally my stream
19:56
Keith: of consciousness as to how I prepare to invest every
19:59
Keith: single day. And somebody said share it during COVID, and
20:02
Keith: I thought nobody's
20:03
Keith: gonna be interested and today there's tens of thousands of
20:05
Keith: people around the world who read it and it's really
20:07
Keith: humbling and frankly, I'd love it. You know, I know
20:10
Keith: you read it, Suze, and you've told me you enjoy it,
20:11
Keith: so thank you.
20:12
Suze: I look for my name in it, Keith. Yes, you do.
20:15
Suze: I'm like, come on, mention me. But everybody, I wanted
20:19
Suze: Keith to tell you all about that because we have
20:21
Suze: a lot of new people all the time and especially
20:24
Suze: on YouTube. And so
20:27
Suze: just every day check in because what I really think
20:32
Suze: all of you need at times like this is a
20:35
Suze: voice of reason, a voice of knowledge, a voice of knowing,
20:40
Suze: and while I'm also that voice, I don't come to
20:44
Suze: you every single day. I come to you on Tuesdays
20:47
Suze: or Thursdays or whenever you happen to tune into the
20:49
Suze: podcast or we decide to do a YouTube posting.
20:53
Suze: So get that little hit every day to keep yourself grounded.
20:58
Suze: All right, Keith, anything else you wanna say?
21:01
Keith: No, just hang in there, everybody. This is tough, but
21:03
Keith: you know what, we are gonna get through this. There's
21:04
Keith: no doubt. History shows that very clearly with Suze's guidance
21:08
Keith: because I read Suze's stuff every week, uh, you know,
21:11
Keith: we're all gonna be there in this together.
21:12
Suze: Yeah, but it could take time. So just be patient, everybody.
21:17
Suze: This is a market that's gonna take time to settle down.
21:22
Suze: So until next time, there's only one thing we want
21:25
Suze: them to remember, right, Keith?
21:27
Keith: Absolutely.
21:28
Suze: Well, to say it. You know how to say it.
21:30
Keith: People first. Money second, then things.
21:34
Suze: You got it. All right, bye bye, everybody. See you soon.