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HBR Deboonked? Someone Responded To Us! Is Patriarchy Fake News? | Rantzerker 231 · Honey Badger Radio

• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Give me a thank you, Give me a thank you
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: for feminist for getting you are right to vote, olthwise.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Stop voting and go make my ham sandwich.
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: All right, Hello everybody, and welcome to Honey Badger Radio.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: This is the ransircer, but Alison's not here to do
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: her usual spiel, so we let Jank do the intro
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: and he kind of flubbed it. But whatever. This is
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: RAN Cirker number two thirty one HBr deboot. Someone responded
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: to us, is patriarchy fake news? We are about to
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: get four four twenty no scoped by this guy named
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the ex Patriarch who made a video responding to a
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: video that Allison and I did. I don't even remember
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: what we were talking about, but the topic of patriarchy
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: came up, and Alison essentially made the case that the
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: patriarchy of feminist imagining is not real and this guy
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: ex Patriarch is debunking that. And we are actually dead.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: We're talking you from the afterlife, but we are crawling
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: back to the surface with our own counter counterclaims. So anyway,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: I am here with Hannah and Karen and Alison will
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: be a long later, but she is running late because
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: she is the only person that gets to sleep in.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: I guess, all right, so oh, she said, oh, she's ready,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Allison's gonna be here, So she's she's gonna come now,
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: she's probably gonna come in doing the the intro. Hold on,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I think Anaks Baron wants to say something.
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: Am I saying that I'm better than you?
• 3:09
  Speaker 5: I guess I'm going a little further than you are. Yeah,
• 3:11
  Speaker 5: I'm fucking better than you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: Okay, much better than you. You are garbage.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: You are garbage. Okay, So I have to admit, though,
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Anna Kasparian is starting to not idiot, not be such
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: an idiot. She's she's not anywhere near there yet, but
• 3:37
  Speaker 5: she's she's at least moving in the right direction.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she just had to have like some like homeless
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: vagrant nearly assault her, and some friends her and some
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: neighborly maga guy help her out. And then she's like, Wow.
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: I thought all these mega guys were terrorists, and I thought.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: All these vagrant drug addicts were like just you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: the product of economic socioeconomic factors. I didn't think.
• 4:10
  Speaker 5: It's like, honestly, honestly, you look at you look at
• 4:13
  Speaker 5: something like mental illness, It's like, my husband has a
• 4:19
  Speaker 5: cousin he's got schizophrenia, and every time we get the
• 4:23
  Speaker 5: call that the cops have picked him up again, right,
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: we're just glad it was a suicide attempt and not
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: something involving other people. And it's like, yeah, well, you know,
• 4:38
  Speaker 5: this happened in Canada and it happened in the US,
• 4:41
  Speaker 5: and I think it was in the nineteen nineties or something.
• 4:43
  Speaker 5: They basically decided the Western world basically collectively decided that
• 4:49
  Speaker 5: it was inhumane to involuntarily commit uh people who were
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: mentally ill for long periods of extended periods of time,
• 5:00
  Speaker 5: for like, you know, potentially the rest of their lives.
• 5:04
  Speaker 5: And it was also a violation of their rights to
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: make them take medication. And so where did they go?
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: They closed down all the mental hospitals, the long term facilities.
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: So where did they go out on the streets And
• 5:20
  Speaker 5: what did they start do? They stopped taking their medication.
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: And here's where we are.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: And Allison just joined us. So Allison, hey, did you run? Hey?
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: Can you guys hear me now?
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: Yes? Yes? Yes?
• 5:35
  Speaker 6: Oh good, because you couldn't hear me before. Also, I've
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: lost the video now when I went through and did
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: the changes I needed to do so you guys could
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: hear me. It either it closed the window or it
• 5:48
  Speaker 6: hit it. But I can't. I can't find it now
• 5:50
  Speaker 6: like I've got I can't see the tab. It's like
• 5:59
  Speaker 6: completely vanished. This is bizarre. There it is. It's it's
• 6:05
  Speaker 6: because I have enough tabs open that my window doesn't
• 6:07
  Speaker 6: show all to me. So it just But before we
• 6:10
  Speaker 6: get started on this guy's video, there's two things I
• 6:12
  Speaker 6: want to mention. And the first one is maybe a
• 6:14
  Speaker 6: bit petty, but the name ex Patriarch, in my opinion,
• 6:19
  Speaker 6: is very one good man. Our listeners will know what
• 6:22
  Speaker 6: I'm talking about. I mean, it's it's kind of a
• 6:25
  Speaker 6: it's a way of saying in shorthand, I'm better than
• 6:29
  Speaker 6: all the other men because I recognize this original sin
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: of men that against women that we're all guilty of,
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: and I have to make up for by, you know,
• 6:41
  Speaker 6: lecturing the rest of you guys on how you're supposed
• 6:44
  Speaker 6: to be. It's it's very condescending, it's very arrogant, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 6: it says a lot about the perspective that this is
• 6:53
  Speaker 6: coming from. And that's the first thing. The second thing
• 6:55
  Speaker 6: is I want people to understand what a gish gallop is,
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: because this guy through out a bunch of claims, and
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: he cited sources for his claims, but he did what
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: some of his sources did. He told part of the
• 7:10
  Speaker 6: story as if it was all of the story and
• 7:14
  Speaker 6: left it to indicate that that part of the story
• 7:17
  Speaker 6: debunked the argument that that part of the story was
• 7:22
  Speaker 6: not the whole story. Kind of like saying, you know,
• 7:26
  Speaker 6: I can't go to the store because there's something wrong
• 7:29
  Speaker 6: with my car, and somebody says, well, your car's engine
• 7:31
  Speaker 6: is working just fine, but you have a flat tire
• 7:35
  Speaker 6: tires right, and so their argument that your car's engine
• 7:40
  Speaker 6: is working just fine doesn't debunk the claim that you
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: can't go to the store thirty miles away because there's
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: something wrong with your car. Or if they claim, well,
• 7:52
  Speaker 6: the store that's six blocks from your house is open,
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: but if you've been trespassed out of there and you
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: can't go, you still need your car, you know. And
• 8:01
  Speaker 6: and this is the kind of thing that I'm seeing
• 8:03
  Speaker 6: with this video. He did a very excellent job of
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: isolating parts of the story and putting them together in
• 8:11
  Speaker 6: a gish gallop, which is saying a whole bunch of
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: arguments at once, without any any chance to respond in between.
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: So I imagine we're probably gonna hear you know, why
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: did it take you guys such a long video to
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: argue against everything that I said in this lousy ten
• 8:30
  Speaker 6: minute video? And the answer is because your ten minute
• 8:33
  Speaker 6: video is a gish gallop. I had to deal with
• 8:37
  Speaker 6: that with Kurzoner, I can't remember her first name, put
• 8:42
  Speaker 6: out a fifteen minute finistyet the good feminist put out
• 8:46
  Speaker 6: a fifteen minute gish gallop against the men's rights movement,
• 8:50
  Speaker 6: and it took me forty five minutes worth of video
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: to step by step address everything she got wrong in
• 8:56
  Speaker 6: that video.
• 8:57
  Speaker 5: So yeah, well, it's it's like it's like Goodfella used
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: to say. You know, it's the fire hose style argument.
• 9:04
  Speaker 5: You get a truck of full of liquid manure, you
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: spray it all over everything, right, It takes you like
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: a minute to cover everything in manure. It takes a
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: little bit longer to clean that shit up.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, all right, Well, Allison, you said you wrote something.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Did you want to just like do that or should
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: we watch some of the video. Maybe you should also
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: do the things we literally just started. So, oh, oh,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Allison's muted or something. It's that that's why she's been
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: so quiet.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: H yeah, yes, all right, all right, So for some
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: reason occasionally video Ninja likes to just drop my mic
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: and I have to switch it around. But anyway, that's sorted. Okay,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: So did you do the intro? Have we done the intro?
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: We did an intro?
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, an intro? Okay, well, you know, maybe maybe I'll
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: go through and just do the and start there and
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: then we'll go into the things and we can consider
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: this all bonus content behind the scenes.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: Setting it all up.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: All right, So, coming to you live from deep within
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: a radioactive and strangely timed wasteland. We are the survivors
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: of the Altright Apocalypse, the few, the brave, the bitchy,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: wading into battle against the lazy citation hordes with rant
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Zurker number helped me out HBr do boomed or is
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: it debunked?
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah? We boomed, we got we got wrecked. With logic
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: and facts. We are you know.
• 10:47
  Speaker 5: We are.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: We are.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: We are broadcasting from our own death, from their own
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: afterlife of having been so seriously wrecked by this individual
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: called ex patriots not just.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Wrecked, we got shreked, we got.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: This does not feel wow.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I also died recently. You know, I've been dying on
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: this hill for twenty years. So but anyway, I want
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: to remind everyone. If you would like to send us
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: a tip and with that tip send a comment, you
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: can do so it feed the Badger dot com slash
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: just the tip. We do have our monthly fundraiser open
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: it feed the Badger dot com slash support. So if
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: you want to support this content, which is you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: it's pretty unique content, I would say you can do
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: so I feed the Badger dot com slash support. All right.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: So Brian sent this to me yesterday at about noon,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: and I went into the comments and I started commenting,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: shall we say? And I had watched a bit of
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the video and I actually read the sources, or I
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: looked at the sources. I already read Blackwell's commentaries on
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the Law of England, but he also had another source
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: called Laws concerning Women. Get let me see h a
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: brief summary and plain language of the most important laws
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: concerning women. And so I took a look at that.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I think it's something that both Karen and Hannah are
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: probably familiar with it.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: Is maybe not, maybe not, maybe not.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: May I'll send you a link, but I'll give you
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: an overview.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: I'll give you an overview.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: It's essentially a feminist or proto feminist document about the
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: laws of the time. It rehashes Blackwell's commentaries on the
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: laws of England and then adds a bit of commentary
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: about how, uh, everything is is is men's fault. They're
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: harming women, and they're evil, and also they're they're less
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: morally morally capable than women, they're lower than women on
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the moral landscape, which always I find hilarious when I
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: read these feminist documents from the time because they contrast
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: so interestingly with For example, at the time they would
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: have called themselves like the Negro lead, but that's not
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: appropriate today. So the Black League of like black voters,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: and they would create documents talking about the franchise, and
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: they would talk about their service, and they never said
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: things like because we are morally superior to the white
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: r yea never, never, never, always talked about the service
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: that they've performed for this, for their society and warfare
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: and that kind of stuff, and then laid out their
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: argument for having the vote as a result of that
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: completely different tone. When you listen to feminist or proto
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: feminist writings, it's always as the morally superior gender, we
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: are going to pontificate upon the failings of the men
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: in providing for us.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: And I'm reading this.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: And I'm thinking about the whole context of what she's
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: writing it. So there were a lot of social changes
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: happening in the nineteenth century, one of which was the
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: creation of a workplace that was safe, secure, and comfortable
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: enough for women to go into.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So now we're starting to see women bringing their own
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: income into marriage, which is a completely new situation. In
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: the past, women work from the home, not because they
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: were restricted by law, but because they were restricted by biology,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Like they didn't have the physical strength to do a
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: lot of the jobs that were outside the home. The
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: jobs outside of the home were uncomfortable and difficult. They
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: didn't have accommodations like washrooms, right, and so it was
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: and in many cases they were extremely dangerous, Like the
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: tunnel under the Thames probably has a death toll in
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: the dozens and men were doing that. They were tunneling
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: under the Thame. So that was the kind of jobs
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that were availab at the time. Then we see the
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: rise of this sort of clerk class. So jobs you
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: can do at a desk, you can do mentally, and
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: there was less barriers to entry, and those barriers were
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: biological and physical. So you see women taking more jobs. Now,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the laws regarding marriage weren't, you know, they they by
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: definition laws tend to come from the past, so they
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: didn't accommodate this new circumstance. But it wasn't because men
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: hated women. Actually, can I just ask Hannah, if you're
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: not speaking, could you just mute? Because there's just this
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: little and it's like it's it's triggering.
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm kind of waiting to say something as soon
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: as you get done, because.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I'll give you I'll give you a head all right.
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: It's just and I don't know that this is going
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: to change, Like I switched everything that I could, and
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: this this is just just just Actually, the problem is
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: if I don't stay and muted, I don't get to
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: talk a lot of the time. So I was, well, I.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Mean, I'm just gonna I'm complete my skeeep spiel and
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: then I'm going to let both of you just go
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: for it. I'm just going to release the hounds on
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: this guy. But what I was trying to get it
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: is that the circumstances, the social circumstances of the time
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: had changed. Laws didn't keep up with it. So what
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: simply happened is there was a new circumstance that had
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to be dealt with in law when it came to matrimony,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: which is women bringing in their own income. Before that
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: just didn't happen. Women's contribution to the family was material,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't in terms of bringing in currency, bringing
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: in money, right, So as soon as they realized, oh hey, wow,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: this is something that's going to harm married women, they
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: started to change the law. It has nothing to do
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: with men being cruel or evil, which is sort of
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the implication of this sort of misunderous screed. It had
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: everything to do with a delay in the law recognizing
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: and dealing with current circumstance.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: And you see this overture.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like if you see this over and over again,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: it takes time for the law to catch up with
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: current circumstance. And then in the lag you find the
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: feminists yelling about how men hate us and they're evil
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: and they want to oppress us no, and then you
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: find that yes, the law gets changed, and interestingly enough,
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the law gets changed in such a way that women
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: are benefited's in other words, so it's changed that they
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: are the ones who no longer face the problems that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: they did, but new problems are created for men. So,
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: for example, women can keep their income and control their
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: income because they're earning it. But now we have the
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: problem that men are responsible for debts and they have
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: no ability to have oversight because you have an anecdote
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: about that, Karen.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: So it's like it.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Creates a problem. This change between this differential between the
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: law and the circumstances that married people find themselves in
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: creates a problem for women. The legal process solves that
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: problem for women and then creates a gigantic problem for
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: men because their responsibilities remain right and it's always lagging.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: The problem is solved first for women, then egregious crap
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: happens because nobody thought about the situation for men. Because
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of biased advocates like this person who wrote this treatisy,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: nobody thinks about the situation for men. It takes a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: decade or longer to fix the problems that are created
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: for men, which they have really serious consequences like jail,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you know. And it's so interesting that they frame all
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: of this circumstances changing the law not keeping up because
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: the law doesn't keep up right, the law being changed
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: to benefit women. Nobody keep thinking about the situation for men.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: The situation for men only be in addressed decades after
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: the situation for women is being addressed. They look at
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: all that and say oppression of women, bitch please.
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: So there's also the factor of class that people do
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: not think about when they're discussing this. Like the idea
• 19:20
  Speaker 6: that women didn't work before a certain time and then
• 19:23
  Speaker 6: after that time women worked does not apply when you
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: get below what we would today think of as the
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: middle class, which was almost nonexistent and at certain times,
• 19:32
  Speaker 6: because class was based on landownership, and landownership made you wealthy.
• 19:40
  Speaker 6: You didn't have middle status, you know, unless you were
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: living in an urban area and you owned a small
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: section of land on which one building could stand and
• 19:49
  Speaker 6: other people will rent it from you. So this idea
• 19:53
  Speaker 6: that women were forbidden to work is just not the case.
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: Women were not forbidden to work because poor women had jobs,
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: and it wasn't just cleaning people's houses, it was working
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: in coal mines, it was all kinds of stuff. They
• 20:10
  Speaker 6: worked in factories, they worked in dangerous conditions. They were
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: still shielded from the more dangerous conditions in the workplaces
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: that they were in. So if there was an area
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: in a coal mine that was more dangerous, the men
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: were the one doing that, the ones doing that, whereas
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: women did jobs that you had to be maybe a
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: little smaller to be able to do. And it was
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: upper class women whose objections led to women being taken
• 20:41
  Speaker 6: out of coal mines, to poor women being taken out
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: of coal mines, and then they ended up having to
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: do slightly lower paying jobs outside of the mines for
• 20:51
  Speaker 6: the coal companies instead, and the conditions weren't necessarily significantly
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: better because now they were working outside in the cold
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: in the winter time and outside in the heat in
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: the summertime, whereas down in the minds the temperature was
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: pretty much a constant. So you did have a very
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: stark difference between how the law affected women who married
• 21:20
  Speaker 6: wealthy men and property owners versus women who married men
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: who didn't have much of anything. And feminists never.
• 21:30
  Speaker 5: Talk about who didn't marry at all, yeah.
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: Or who didn't marry at all. Women who didn't marry
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: at all had to be self supporting. They didn't have
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: somebody that was obligated to support them, and they had
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: to face all of the things that women who were
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: married didn't have to face because their husband was legally
• 21:45
  Speaker 6: designated as a shield between them and the state. And
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: so you also saw women working in dangerous conditions and
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: in legally risky conditions, business owners and so on. And
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: there were women that became wealthy as business owners right
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: on back into medieval times. There were landladies and such.
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: This is information about This is information. Yeah, a lot
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: of this is information we came across when we were
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: doing the HBr talk series debunking the idea that there's
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: no relationship between military service and voting rights. Voting rights
• 22:26
  Speaker 6: literally evolved out of men's military obligations and their obligations
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: to participate in a pseudo parliamentary system prior to the
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: existence of the British parliamentary systems. It's literally one and
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: the same thing, and women got voting rights along the
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: way multiple times, in multiple ways. They weren't. There was
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: no stark line where before this time all men could
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: vote and no women could vote, and after you know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: it was equalized, there was always this long slow evolution
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: of men's voting right rights in association with actions men
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: took for remedy that men needed for their ability to
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: provide for their families and keep their community safe and
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: not have to pay the king to do stupid things. Yeah, warfare,
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: the story of King John basically and his contribution to
• 23:23
  Speaker 6: that everybody should know. So, I mean, we've been going
• 23:27
  Speaker 6: over that at HBr talk for months and we're doing
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: something else right now because there's some stuff that's very
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: relevant to right now that needs to be covered right now.
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: So we've gotten up to after the American Revolution and
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: we will be going back to this at a later
• 23:45
  Speaker 6: date and continuing on with the formation of Canada, the
• 23:48
  Speaker 6: formation of Australia and how voting rights evolved in in
• 23:54
  Speaker 6: all of the territories that were ones English common English
• 23:59
  Speaker 6: colonies and other English Terranoise. Yeah, under English common law, right,
• 24:03
  Speaker 6: because that's basically what affected the formation of voting rights
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: in all those countries. And there were differences, significant differences
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: in how that occurred because the American Revolution changed the
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: entire world's attitude about how that should work. But in
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: all of that, what this goes back to is a
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: lot of what this guy has said is over generalization,
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: and he omits a lot of important facts, and it's
• 24:35
  Speaker 6: very important to not do the same thing where we say, well,
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: this was the way things were for women up until
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: this point, and that's the way things were for women afterwards,
• 24:43
  Speaker 6: Because which women are we talking about? Are we talking
• 24:47
  Speaker 6: about the women and from wealthy families or are we
• 24:50
  Speaker 6: talking about the women who came from poor families.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: We're also talking about rural versus urban women, because when
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: Blackwell does his commentaries on the law of England, he
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: means different loss systems, Like there's certain areas that might
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: have a saxon inheritance laws which were strict like progenitor
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: I think like the first male heir. There would be
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: ones that were more based on Roman law that has
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: much more like Roman law has much more latitude for
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: female inheritance. I think women are equally considered in terms
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: of inheritance as sons. And a lot of English common
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: law comes from Roman common law and Roman law.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: So he's talking about but you also have to yeah,
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: but you also have to you also have to look
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: at you know, those Saxon laws, the eldest the eldest
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: son gets everything. He gets everything, and then the second
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: son goes to the military, and the third son goes right.
• 25:51
  Speaker 6: And there were reasons for that. There were very solid
• 25:53
  Speaker 6: reasons for that. The inheritance law was intended to keep
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: properties in wealth intact. So if you had several children
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: and you let each of them take a piece of
• 26:04
  Speaker 6: your land, that land then went off into different families
• 26:08
  Speaker 6: and it became smaller sections and it was less valuable,
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: and especially if it went off into the control of
• 26:17
  Speaker 6: another family. Because you left it to a woman didn't
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: shield it from her coviture rights. And so since she
• 26:27
  Speaker 6: could exercise her right to not be responsible for it,
• 26:31
  Speaker 6: her husband then had a right to exercise his responsibility
• 26:35
  Speaker 6: for it as he saw necessary. It wasn't subject to whims,
• 26:41
  Speaker 6: but it was definitely subject to his judgment. And so
• 26:45
  Speaker 6: that would mean that the original family that owned that land,
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: he was the administrator. That meant that the other family
• 26:52
  Speaker 6: just lost control over it. The father's family just lost
• 26:55
  Speaker 6: control over it. So it wasn't about the individuals who
• 27:02
  Speaker 6: were inheriting the land. It was about the preservation of
• 27:05
  Speaker 6: wealth and the preservation of a system. Yeah, that's royalty.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But my overall point is that Blackwell's commentaries is
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: dealing with a bunch of different legal systems.
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, they're evolving unto.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Each other, and so you have you have certain courts
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: that would decide based on different principles, you know. And
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: so there's this the old English common law new law
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: where the cviture is coming in and he's he's he's
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: explaining all of this, and the the inclination I've seen
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: is to treat all of it as one thing, and
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: it isn't. So women in different jurisdictions would be under
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: different types of law. They might be under the old
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: English law, which gave them more freedom but also gave
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: their husbands more authority over punishing them for misdemeanors. Or
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: they might be in the new law, which is more coviture,
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: where they had less I don't want to say freedom,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: they didn't. They had less or men had more responsibilities
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: to essentially manage their wives property. But on the other hand,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: men didn't have the same like authority to engage in
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: any kind of correction. And when we talk about correction,
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: men weren't allowed to engage in just violence. It had
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: to be in the context of a woman's misbehavior misdemeanors, right,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: so she had to actually be a problem for other
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: people before this became his issue. But the other thing
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: is that there is absolutely no controls on women's violence.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: This is what I've said, Yeah, if if, if feminists
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: want to assert, men could hit their wives with a
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: stick no bigger than their thumb. Their wives had every
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: legal right to hit the whole baseball bat.
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: The thumb has been for a long time. I know.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: That's that's really important.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: Men were But if I'm saying what I'm saying, we know, Okay, Brian,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: what is it? What is it you need?
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: Okay, both of you.
• 29:09
  Speaker 6: That's just a we should depend give them that. It
• 29:12
  Speaker 6: didn't depend you mean by beat.
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: It depends on what you mean by beat.
• 29:19
  Speaker 6: Laws against you mean.
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: Because a corporal punishment, corporal punishment, corporal punishment was permissible
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: by men against anyone whom they were legally responsible for.
• 29:35
  Speaker 5: That means you got your backside what that's what that means.
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: And these days we consider that, yes, you got spanked,
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: you got caned, whatever. Right Like this happened in schools
• 29:50
  Speaker 5: when I was When I was a kid, the principal
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: would give students the strap when they were misbehaving. They
• 29:56
  Speaker 5: would always offer do you want it? Do you want
• 29:58
  Speaker 5: the strap or do you want me to call your
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: parents will tell them what you did. And the boys
• 30:02
  Speaker 5: who were in trouble always took the strap. They always
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: opted for the strap, right, okay, which is a leather
• 30:09
  Speaker 5: strap whacked against their palm. Okay, this is okay. Because
• 30:13
  Speaker 5: parents were allowed to spank their kids. Parents were allowed
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: to do a lot of things to their kids. No TV, right,
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: no playing outside, no bike, you know, take your bike away,
• 30:25
  Speaker 5: put it in the shed, lock it in there, right you.
• 30:29
  Speaker 5: These kids generally knew in the nineteen seventies that they
• 30:33
  Speaker 5: would get it worse at home than one single leather
• 30:38
  Speaker 5: strap against their hand. Okay. So we consider that violence today,
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: we consider that beating today, we consider that abuse today.
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: That is not how things were considered back then. So
• 30:52
  Speaker 5: when you say men were not allowed to beat their wives, yet, no,
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: they were allowed to physically correct to use corporal punishment
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: on their wives, on their apprentices, on their children, on
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: anybody who they could be held criminally responsible for.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: Physical physical punishments at the time that were allowed to
• 31:17
  Speaker 6: be used by the state at the time that you're
• 31:21
  Speaker 6: saying that men could use a strap on their wives.
• 31:24
  Speaker 6: Were things like cutting people's limbs off, or putting someone
• 31:30
  Speaker 6: in a mechanism where they essentially were stuck in a
• 31:34
  Speaker 6: giant staremaster until they died. They used hanging, they used
• 31:41
  Speaker 6: this memberment, they used all kinds of torture and some
• 31:44
  Speaker 6: so we're essentially trying to equate. Yeah, the things that
• 31:51
  Speaker 6: were normal in the past that would be considered much
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: much more lenient than your normal punishment with today's. So no,
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: men were still not allowed to beat their wives. So
• 32:03
  Speaker 6: it's not really and there's more to this. Let him
• 32:08
  Speaker 6: even before the year one thousand. This is from let
• 32:12
  Speaker 6: me make sure I MJ. George and his report Skimmington
• 32:16
  Speaker 6: Revisited pointed out even before the year one thousand, Anglin
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: Anglo Saxon, men who were found guilty of assaulting a
• 32:23
  Speaker 6: woman had to pay her recompense according to their crime,
• 32:27
  Speaker 6: and he has a source for that. Lacy and Danzinger
• 32:30
  Speaker 6: nineteen ninety nine and the Elizabethan period, court records became
• 32:34
  Speaker 6: more systematic and many have survived, allowing later historical analysis.
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: Such records show that domestic disputes and violence were a
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: considerable considerable portion of indictments for violence brought to the courts,
• 32:46
  Speaker 6: and that was Cockburn nineteen seventy seven. Although they contained
• 32:50
  Speaker 6: cases between all manner of domestic relations. Certainly examples of
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: the prosecution of men for violence against their wives can
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: be found over the entire period since then, and he
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: has three sources for that. So women, if they felt
• 33:05
  Speaker 6: that what their husband did was unjust or was over
• 33:09
  Speaker 6: turned violence, and there was any like say he left
• 33:14
  Speaker 6: a bruise, a welt, anything like that, she could still
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: go to court and force him to pay compensation and
• 33:21
  Speaker 6: a lot of remedies for stuff that was a dispute
• 33:25
  Speaker 6: between people. If there was violence between people at a pub,
• 33:30
  Speaker 6: instead of a criminal remedy where you got a punishment
• 33:33
  Speaker 6: from the state, because punishment mints from the state were
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: so harsh, those were civil remedies. So this was pretty normal.
• 33:41
  Speaker 6: A woman could go after her husband for exercising his
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: right to discipline her too harshly. Meanwhile, if a man
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: was subjected to violence by his wife, the entire town
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: would turn up to punish him for it. Yeah, and
• 33:59
  Speaker 6: would Yeah, she Skimmington. They shamed him and they actually
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: would would beat him for getting beaten by his wife. Yeah,
• 34:09
  Speaker 6: so it was not equal at all.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: No, it wasn't equal, and the protection was granted towards
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: the women. Where there was protection, it was granted towards
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the women. And like i've you said when I went
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: through Blackwell's commentaries, and also I want to point out
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: this is what I was trying to point out. Blackwell
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: points to the old English law as having the giving
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: men the right of correction, and that is in the
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: context that they can they can say they can prove
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: that she is engaging in behavior that is probably a
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: danger to people around her, like, so that she's engaging
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: in behavior that people would agree is egregious and deserves
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: correction instead of going to the courts and getting one
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: of these sort of draconian punishments. He is responsible for
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: punishing her. Right, that's the situation.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: Ye.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: But Blackwell points out that after the reign of Charles
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: the Second that started to evolve away from men being
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: able to do anything, so under coverture, men aren't actually
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: allowed to physically chastise their loves. They have more responsibility
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: and less authority under cuverture, which is astounding that they
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: look at that and say, oh, women are oppressed by this. Okay,
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: but here's here's and you read black.
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: Oh and you want and you want, you want to
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: you want to do the no one good men thing too.
• 35:31
  Speaker 5: It's like he's he's like, oh, those horrible savage men
• 35:34
  Speaker 5: back then rely did this, but we in the age, yeah,
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: black you know, we're more enlightened.
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, even Blackwell is doing the whole I am the
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: ex patriot, ex patriarch thing that ex patriarch is doing
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: because every every generation of men thinks it's the only
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: generation of men that's ever treated women right like, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: then the next generation of men says to it's fathers,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: you don't treat women right like. That's it's this continuous
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: so called revolution. But yeah, but what my overall point
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: is that bat Blackwell wasn't just talking about the old
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: English common laws. He's also talking about the additions and
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: changes to it. And you need to make these distinctions.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: But there is one thing that I will give ex patriot,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: ex patriarch. I'm going to keep saying ex patriot because
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: that's what I'm thinking when I you know, because I
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: lived in an ex patriot. But anyway, the one thing
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: that I will give ex patriarch is that he at
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: least restricts it. Because I've dealt with people who have
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: come out and said women were oppressed throughout all of
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: European history. I'm like, okay, so you don't think they
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: were oppressed in ancient Oh yeah, they were also pressed?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: How about Schumer? Yes, so that women were oppressed in
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: every legal system that's ever existed. Like, can we narrow
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: it down?
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: Can we talk?
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Because there's different different situations that each of these legal
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: codes are dealing with. Are we dealing with like the
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: North Germanic laws, the the you know, like the Scandinavian
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Middle Middle Ages? Are we dealing with Saxon? Are we
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: dealing with Roman? Are we dealing with English common law?
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: Are we dealing with later English common law?
• 37:19
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: What are we dealing with?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: But at very least he talks about coverture, which is
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: sort of a specific legal It's not even just a
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: specific legal sitution like a law system, it's also a
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: specific legal scenario. What would you term that like a
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: specific legal.
• 37:36
  Speaker 5: Well there's a time frame there, and yeah, yeah, it's
• 37:41
  Speaker 5: specific time frame and a specific set of laws.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: So he narrowed it down at least we've narrowed it
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: down to something. We're not just talking about the entirety
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: of European existence.
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: Although he does seem heavily on Blackwell. And I mean
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: there's there's been critiques of Blackwell and Mary Beard, for
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: instance in nineteen forty six kind of ripped Blackwell a
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: new asshole in regard to this. So and give us
• 38:09
  Speaker 6: a review of that. Oh gosh, So we're talking about
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: an entire book here, but I can respond with bits
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: and pieces of it as we go through the video.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: Maybe we should watch the video that we're here to
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: respond to. Yeah, maybe it's only been forty five minutes
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: almost okay, So, and I'd like to go home today
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: or like go pick Lindsay up at some point.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So, oh god, we knew that we were in for
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: it when we're talking about law though with Karen.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, No, it's okay. I know, I fully
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: expect it. I only have like a couple of It's
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: a nine minute video, but it really only breaks down
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: into three sections. There's an intro, there's a bit about
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: the bit about coviture, and then the evolution of women's rights,
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: in law.
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: Well, everyone, why don't we just sit through the intro
• 39:03
  Speaker 5: with minimal interruptions.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we'll just play the bit where he sort
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: of like sets it up, and then I'm gonna jump ahead. Okay,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: So let's all not say anything because if you talk,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: it changes scenes. So try not to make any noise
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: or anything while I play the intro.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Feminists characterized as men oppressing women. No, look at the
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: historical norms. There was always an expectation that men serve
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: women's comfort and make sure women are protected and provided
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: for to the expense of men themselves. This patriarchy is
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: feminist patriarchy has never been proven.
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: It's another round of these are not facts, the just
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: things you made up to justify your feelings.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's basically the intro. Did you guys know that
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: all of the books and all of the studying and
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: all of the stuff that you've done is just your
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: feelings and that's what you're doing like the.
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: Hard Okay, it would be it would be something that
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: a feminist man would do that he would assume that
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: something a woman said, an opinion that a woman holds,
• 40:07
  Speaker 6: was just because that's her feelings.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, No, she's just being overly emotional as a hysterical woman.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: Maybe she needs a hysterectomy and some of that good
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: vibrator freaking therapy that they were dishing out to women
• 40:23
  Speaker 5: mentally ill women back in the late eighteen hundreds early
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: nineteen hundreds. Who knew that orgasm female orgasm was a
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: cure for female mental illness? All the hallucinations a certainly
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: sounds more fun than.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, let's a.
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: Lot of a lot of the therapies, like the electro
• 40:46
  Speaker 5: shock and shit like that.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: So yeah, let's let's play the bit where he talks
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: about coverture and then you guys, I'll pause it, and
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: when I do, you guys could talk, but don't say
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: anything for now. Okay, here we go.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Women were not allowed to own property. Any property she
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: owned as a single woman now became her husband's. Any
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: wages or income she now owned as a married woman
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: were similarly no longer hers, but owned by her husband.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: A married woman could not be sued. Any dabs she
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: could would be passed to her husband, but she was
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: also not allowed to enter into any contracts nor make
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: any purchases without her husband's approval and consent. If a
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: married woman was injured, she could not suit, but her
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: husband could on her behalf. Any damages he received were
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: his alone.
• 41:29
  Speaker 6: Barbara Lee smiss, Okay, everything he just said there is
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: an oversimplif oversimplification in a way that makes it not true.
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: He has stated fractions of truths as if they are
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: the entire story. So, yeah, women, if they opted to
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: not make any arrangements when they were getting married to
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: protect their property from becoming completely controlled by their husband,
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: they were agreeing to that, and that would be the situation.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: But there were legal arrangements that could be made where
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: the woman retained control of the property herself, where the
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: woman had a trustee in control of the property who
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: was not part of her family, or where the woman
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: actually left it in the control of her father or
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: part of her family. So this idea that patriarchy just
• 42:24
  Speaker 6: kept women from having control over any of their property
• 42:27
  Speaker 6: after they got married, that was boloney. And this is
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: this is one of the things that you guys have
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: to understand. I actually have about eighty tabs open here,
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: so I want to make sure I'm looking at the
• 42:39
  Speaker 6: right one. Yeah, so what what then I'm going to
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: read this what Mary Beard said, was did a woman,
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: after all, cease to exist in law and respect to
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: her property rights when she married? Story answered, And she's
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: citing another author here. Courts of equity, which Blackwell kind
• 42:58
  Speaker 6: of ignored, Yes, for many purposes, treat the husband and
• 43:02
  Speaker 6: wife as the civil law of Rome treats them as
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: distinct persons, capable in a limited sense of contracting with
• 43:10
  Speaker 6: each other, of suing each other, and of having separate estates, debts,
• 43:15
  Speaker 6: and interests. A wife may, in a court of equity
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: sue her husband and be sued by him in cases
• 43:22
  Speaker 6: respecting her separate estate. She may also be sued without him,
• 43:26
  Speaker 6: although he is ordinarily required to be joined for the
• 43:29
  Speaker 6: sake of conformity to the rule of law as a
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: normal party, whenever he is within the jurisdiction of the
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: court and can be made a party. Do contracts made
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: between a man and a woman before their marriage become
• 43:40
  Speaker 6: utterly extinguished after they are married. It depends upon the
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: nature of the contracts. Courts of equity will, in special cases,
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: and further into of the manifest intentions and objects of
• 43:53
  Speaker 6: the parties, carry into effect such a contract made before
• 43:57
  Speaker 6: marriage between a husband and wife. So basically what they
• 44:00
  Speaker 6: wrote in the contract could determine that the contract would
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: survive the marriage agreement. And even though there was the
• 44:10
  Speaker 6: legal fiction of coverture and anything that was addressed by
• 44:13
  Speaker 6: that particular contract was exempted and excluded from it. And
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: it goes on. Let's see, sorry, I am using two
• 44:23
  Speaker 6: screens to an agreement therefore entered into by the husband
• 44:30
  Speaker 6: wife before the marriage for the mutual settlement of their
• 44:33
  Speaker 6: estates or the estate of either upon the marriage, even
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: without intervention of trustees, will be enforced in equity through
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: void or though void at law for equity will not
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: suffer the intention of the parties to be defeated by
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: the very act which is designed to give effect to
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: such contract, meaning that, based on the intentions of that contract,
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: them getting married, which is intended to act as another contract,
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: doesn't eliminate the original contract in equity. It is a
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: constant experience that the husband may sue the wife or
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: the wife the husband. Where a husband covenated before marriage
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: with his intended wife that she should have the power
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: to dispose of her estate, he was afterwards held bound
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: significantly to perform it. He wasn't allowed to go back
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: on his word. The same rule in equity was applied
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: in cases where the woman bound herself to her intended
• 45:32
  Speaker 6: husband any portion of her estate. So she gave up
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: the estate. She couldn't come back later and say I
• 45:37
  Speaker 6: changed my mind and there's more. But no, Blackwell pretty
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: much ignored that in his writing.
• 45:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, And you also you also have to look
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: too at the fact that like probably eighty five percent
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: of women came into the marriage with their personal effects.
• 46:00
  Speaker 5: Their personal effects, their clothing, right, their toiletries, their hair brush, right,
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: maybe some linens, like a little trousseau that contained some
• 46:15
  Speaker 5: household items that they hoped to bring into the marriage, right,
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: So bed linens and washing linens and things like that.
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: Maybe you know, like some appliances, small appliances and all
• 46:31
  Speaker 5: of the rest. Like, they did not come into the marriage.
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: Eighty five percent of women probably did not come into
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: the marriage with any property worth going to court over right.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: They didn't come in with thirty head of cattle. They
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: didn't come in with a cottage, you know, out at
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: Gretna Green or something like that. They weren't coming into
• 46:55
  Speaker 5: the marriage with any real property or substantive chattel property.
• 47:01
  Speaker 5: They were coming into the marriage basically with their skill
• 47:05
  Speaker 5: set as as a as a domestic laborer, and and
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: their personal effects, and maybe a handful of household goods, right, housewares,
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: and that's that's it. That's it.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like, like Karen ar Hannah said, this
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: is like a lot of this doesn't even consider class
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: like this, Uh the what what Karen? What I'm getting
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: from Karen is that a lot of what he's calling
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: out wouldn't even apply to women who are not rich.
• 47:39
  Speaker 4: So it once again feminists are.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Looking at the situation of rich women and distorting it. Well,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: what a surprise that feminists are looking at the situation
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: of rich women, because that's what they are, I.
• 47:54
  Speaker 5: Know, I know. And it's like, who is it a faucet?
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: What was her first name? Melicent?
• 48:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, definitely not pharaplacet, Melicent Flaucet, I think is she? Yeah?
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: She was. She was the wife of a wealthy man.
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: She was wealthy in her own right, and she was
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: going about her life having her career right, earning her
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: money that she spent, you know, like however she pleased
• 48:28
  Speaker 5: right because her husband was perfectly happy for her to
• 48:32
  Speaker 5: do that, right. Uh. And then she she's walking down
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: the street and somebody snatches her purse, and and they
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: go to court when the guy is charged and and
• 48:46
  Speaker 5: the bailiff reads out that, you know, twenty pounds of
• 48:50
  Speaker 5: her husband's money was stolen from her purse and that
• 48:57
  Speaker 5: was her inspiration right to spearhead. The law changes that
• 49:06
  Speaker 5: basically made every wife's money right, every wife's income, every
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: wife's property to be theirs held femsol as if they
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: had never married. Right, every wife now right in Britain
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: would own their own property that they brought into the marriage.
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: It was theirs, their's alone. He couldn't touch it. He
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: wasn't even allowed to because it's her private finances. To
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: know how much money she had, to know how much
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: property she had, because that's her personal private financial information
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: held as if she was still a single woman, right,
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: and he had no right to know about it. But
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: he still owed the tax burden, He still owed the
• 49:58
  Speaker 5: taxes on her property and income that was paid, and
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: he still had he still had the freaking burden of
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: supporting the entire family, including her right to the best
• 50:16
  Speaker 5: of his ability. So if he was wearing Hugo Boss suits,
• 50:20
  Speaker 5: she was wearing Dulce and Gabbana okay, at his expense.
• 50:26
  Speaker 5: She didn't have to pay for it. Right, and if
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: if she ever had to, maybe he I don't know,
• 50:32
  Speaker 5: lost in a business venture or lost some money or
• 50:34
  Speaker 5: whatever got got swindled. Right, and she ever had to
• 50:37
  Speaker 5: support the family, write him and the kids for any
• 50:41
  Speaker 5: length of time, He owed her that money back. Right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 5: she could keep track of every dime of her money
• 50:49
  Speaker 5: that she spent supporting her husband and her kids and
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: then sue him and get all of it back okay
• 50:56
  Speaker 5: from him? Right? And Mark Wilkes was a school teacher.
• 51:03
  Speaker 5: This is nineteen ten, I believe in Britain. Elizabeth Wilkes,
• 51:07
  Speaker 5: his wife was a physician back when women weren't allowed
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: to work or have careers, mind you, or even get educations. Okay,
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: she was a physician, he was a school teacher. She
• 51:19
  Speaker 5: was also a suffragette, right, so, which basically means she
• 51:25
  Speaker 5: was a cunt. She was an absolute, fucking, voracious, self centered,
• 51:30
  Speaker 5: self serving cunt who did not care about how her
• 51:37
  Speaker 5: actions affected other people.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 51:39
  Speaker 5: All she wanted was what she wanted, and what she
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: wanted was the vote for women. So what she oh
• 51:45
  Speaker 5: wait ten pound suffrage for women? You can't let those clubs.
• 51:50
  Speaker 5: Rite the poors. You can't let the poors vote, right, No,
• 51:54
  Speaker 5: we want ten pound suffrage for women. Write ten pound
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: poll tax so that only US wealthy, propertied women are
• 52:02
  Speaker 5: able to vote equally with the men. Okay. So she
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: decided that she was going to join a tax resistance
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: society okay, and start a tax resistance movement where married
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: women would refuse to pay their taxes okay, and out
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: of their incomes, out of their property right, would refuse
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: to pay the taxes and refuse to give their husband
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: the documentation necessary for their husbands to calculate the taxes
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: owing right. And maybe maybe, like in the case of
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: Elizabeth and Mark Wilkes, right, she's richer than him and
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: he can't afford to pay it even if he knew
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: how much he had to pay.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Let me just ask them to get this strength, can
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: just ask a question to get this straight?
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: All right?
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: So she earns a tremendous amount of money she owes
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: she or she supposedly has to pay taxes, but she
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: doesn't have to pay them because her debts are her
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: husband's responsibility and he has to pay them.
• 53:08
  Speaker 7: M hm.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: So this is a pression of women.
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: Okay, he went to jail. And this is after Melicent
• 53:20
  Speaker 5: or whatever her freaking name was, Faucet, right, had the
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: laws changed to solely benefit women without considering the the
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: position and responsibilities of the husband. Okay, so this is
• 53:34
  Speaker 5: this is fallout from this law law changed that feminists
• 53:38
  Speaker 5: push for.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: So Mark Wilkes is called up in court on tax
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: evasion charges and he pleads that number one, he's in Pecunius.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: He cannot afford to pay the taxes, whatever they are,
• 53:53
  Speaker 5: because he's a mere school teacher, right, And his wife
• 53:57
  Speaker 5: has all this property and all of this income. Okay,
• 54:01
  Speaker 5: he can't afford to pay it. And up until recently,
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: she's always happily paid it herself because that was the
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: deal that they came to between between each other.
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: But not only was she refusing to pay it, she
• 54:15
  Speaker 5: wouldn't even show him the documentation of what she owned
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: and how much she earned, so he couldn't even figure
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: out how much even if he could pay it. So
• 54:29
  Speaker 5: they put him in prison. They put him in prison.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: What point was she trying to make with all this?
• 54:35
  Speaker 5: Oh, no tax, no vote, no vote, no tax for women.
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: If we don't get the vote, you don't get the taxes. Okay.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: So this entire little this entire little escapade is no
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: vote for Well, then you should be financial, you should
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: be legally obligated to pay your own taxes if it's
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: your vote and your taxes, because this isn't these are
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: his taxes, your taxes. And she's okay, so this is.
• 55:03
  Speaker 5: Just a yes no, and then okay and then okay.
• 55:05
  Speaker 5: This is why I called her the sea word, right,
• 55:08
  Speaker 5: the seedior next Tuesday word is because she happily let
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: him sit in prison. Right. She knew his health was
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: bad already, Right, she let him sit in prison for months,
• 55:21
  Speaker 5: right while she was out on the streets talking to
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: reporters and everything and holding protests and stuff, and encouraging
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: all other propertied women, because suffragettes are generally women of property,
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: she said, encouraging them to do the same, to follow suit.
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: And any any husband worth his salt would happily go
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: to prison for this just cause for his wife and
• 55:49
  Speaker 5: all of her rich friends. Okay. And eventually there was
• 55:56
  Speaker 5: such a freaking stir in the media over her, her
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: talking about this, her promoting this right, and you know,
• 56:05
  Speaker 5: like it was. It was such an outrage such a
• 56:07
  Speaker 5: controversy that this man was sitting in prison, right, rotting
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: away in poor health, right, that the court gave him
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: reprieve based on humanitarian grounds and let him out of prison,
• 56:21
  Speaker 5: and then he died a few months later.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: So let me get this all people, Yeah, let me
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: summarize this. So this woman, this suffragette, was doing a
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: protest saying no tax, no vote, no tax, but she
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: wasn't legally obligated to pay her own tax. So when
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: she didn't pay her tax, her husband went to jail
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: and apparently it destroyed his health and he died later.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: And this and this is and this is oppression of women.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: This is what you call oppression of women? Like answer
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: for this, X pay paid triarch answer to this, tell
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: us how this is oppression of women, because it doesn't
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: look like oppression of women from where I'm standing. If
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: men are constantly obligated to women's debts and women's comfort
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: and provided and providing for women, and to the point
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: where a woman can pull off a stunt like this
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: send her husband to jail, you explain how this is oppression.
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: Of Smugly talk to reporters about how all women, all
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: propertied women should be doing the exact same thing.
• 57:31
  Speaker 6: Thank god they And of course it was limited to
• 57:33
  Speaker 6: property women because the women who were not propertied did
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: not agree with her. They didn't want they didn't have
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: to pay either, they didn't want to vote. When when
• 57:45
  Speaker 6: the Suffragettes began campaigning, the anti Suffragette movement outnumbered them immensely.
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: Okay, we did.
• 57:56
  Speaker 6: We did a couple of episodes at least maybe three
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: or four just on the anti Suffragette movement and the
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: fight between the Suffragettes and the anti Suffragettes, because it
• 58:09
  Speaker 6: took years for the Suffragettes to pressure the anti Suffragettes
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: into basically just shutting up and going along with what
• 58:18
  Speaker 6: they wanted. And during that time period, all of the
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: stunts that the Suffragettes pulled, they claimed that they spoke
• 58:28
  Speaker 6: for all women, but they fought very hard to keep
• 58:32
  Speaker 6: other women's opinions from being heard, much less considered. So
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: there were pushes for women to vote, for instance, on
• 58:39
  Speaker 6: whether or not women wanted voting rights, and the Suffragettes
• 58:42
  Speaker 6: opposed that because they didn't think that women would vote
• 58:46
  Speaker 6: the way they wanted them to.
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: Yep, yep, no, there was a lot of that.
• 58:51
  Speaker 5: Oh God, and in the UK, right, you know, like
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: there's a book called the Suffragette Bombers, and like they
• 58:57
  Speaker 5: were bombing monuments and government buildings. They were mailboxes, lacing
• 59:06
  Speaker 5: mailboxes with.
• 59:07
  Speaker 6: They tried to murder a massive parliament.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they tried to push him off a cliff, and
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: out of his sense of chivalry, he did not report
• 59:18
  Speaker 5: them to police. But women were oppressed.
• 59:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yep. So this this fiction that like the women
• 59:29
  Speaker 6: were kept out of any legal recourse and women were
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: kept out of property ownership. Like there's another bit that
• 59:37
  Speaker 6: I should read you from this book is Blackstone's statement
• 59:42
  Speaker 6: to her false? What is its real nature? For the moment,
• 59:47
  Speaker 6: it may be said that there are some truths in it,
• 59:50
  Speaker 6: that it contains a great deal of misleading, misleading verbalism,
• 59:54
  Speaker 6: and that in upshot it is false. We must remember, moreover,
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: very distinctly, that he was at this point in his
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 6: commentaries dealing solely with the rights or rightlessness of married women,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 6: only with her position, as he said in law quote
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: in law. Now the words in law actually meant in
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 6: common law. Blackstone so understood it and understood it as
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 6: a qualification in all of the passage. So does his reader.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 6: So did his readers who were trained in law, and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: the common law was, however, only one branch of English law,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 6: one of the laws of England or bodies of law.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 6: Other bodies of law were acts of Parliament, often drastically
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: modifying the common law and old customs. Left undisturbed by
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 6: the common and statutory laws, And as Blackstone remarked casually
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 6: over and above these laws, was equity frequently called in
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 6: to assist, to moderate, and to explain the other laws.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 6: Was equity administrated or administered by a special court having
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 6: no jury, that provided, in the name of justice, remedies
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: for wrongs for which the common law afforded no remedies.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: And it goes on later to just another paragraph here. Besides,
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 6: there were the private practices and agreements of men and
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 6: women in the ordinary affairs of daily living, which as
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 6: a rule prevailed undisturbed, unless per chance they became involved
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: in actions before the courts and were declared illegal, contrary
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 6: to law or good morals. Only when such practices and
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: agreements were notoriously contrary to law or good morals, or
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: the man or women who were parties of such practices
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: and agreements were entangled in litigation, was there any kind
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 6: of law applied to them, so it wasn't really necessarily
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 6: part of their Okay, it looks like Brian's back.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: All right, hold your thought and continue as long as
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: we are. We are, we back, Brian. I can't hear you.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: I can't hear you.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: Uh yeah, yeah, I never we never. I never left
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 3: you guys did and then you came back.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 6: Okay, Okay, so that was weird.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 6: So so basically all this complaint, right, that the law
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 6: somehow restricted women's women in ways that affected their everyday
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 6: lives on on the profound level that he's describing was
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: was just utter bullshit. Most of the time, unless a
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: husband actually exercised the force of using the court system
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 6: or a business decided to get you know, act against
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 6: their own economic interests and start denying women access this
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 6: this really did nothing. She could walk in there and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 6: as long as her husband was paying his bills, she
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: could say I'm I'm buying in his name and they
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 6: didn't question it.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, was the law of agency. And he actually had
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 5: to like because it was it was actually I forget
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: coverture oppression or privileged paper right that said that, you know,
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 5: it wasn't enough for a man to like post a
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: notice you know, in the middle of town.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 6: Or no, he had to go to every single store,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 6: to go.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: To every store and say, my wife's extend and don't
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: give her my credit.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Now my wife is living with her with her lover. Yea,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: I have a divorce from room and board. Stop extending
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: her credit.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah no, And like women, and this paper actually noted
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: that women who were legally separated from their husbands used
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: to leverage the law of agency to rack up enormous
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: debts in their husband's names in order to strong arm
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: them into cushier settlements in terms of alimony. Right, So
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: you're looking at like women using the privilege that the
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 5: laws gave them, the coverture laws at the time gave
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 5: them in order to strong arm their husbands into settling
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: for more, to pay more alimony so that they could
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: you know, live a cushier lifestyle post separation. Because divorce
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: was needed an act of Parliament at the time, and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 5: so there were very few that were actually granted. But
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: you know, like and you see you see it like
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 5: in certain Muslim countries, right, you know, women they they
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 5: are able to divorce for on a number of grounds
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 5: if they don't have grounds they give up right there,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 5: their bride gift, right there, mar or Maria. Right, they
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 5: have to give it up at least the portion of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: it that wasn't paid up front, right, because usually it's
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: a small portion paid up front and the rest is
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 5: a paper debt, right payable on divorce if he divorces
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: her without cause or she divorces him with cause. But
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 5: the list of causes for her to divorce is like
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: if he has a job that I find personally embarrassing, right,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 5: is like legal cause to divorce in certain Muslim countries. Right,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: if she feel elected sexually, if he hasn't given if
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: he hasn't impregnated her within the first five years of
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: the marriage, if he can't perform sexually.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, that was in the Middle Ages too.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: But I think the older here that being made because
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: we probably should get back to the video, were relying
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: on Blackstone, and that's not a good idea.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: There's more discrediting of Blackstone that I should point out here,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 6: because this is something This pretty much repeats what I
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 6: said before, but it it it solidifies it a little bit,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 6: and we've we've actually got this chick in our vertical
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: chat who either didn't show up till later in the
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 6: show or didn't listen because she's repeating things that we've
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: already discredited, so that it goes on. Yet, when Blackstone
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 6: spoke of a husband's rights over the real and personal
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: property of his wife and her disabilities quote in law,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 6: he was technically correct within fixed limits. On its face,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: the statement meant that in case of litigation, the husband
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 6: asserts certain rights over the real and property of his wife,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 6: and if the wife can test them or the said
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 6: rights or otherwise drawn in question to common law, the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: common law courts will enforce the husband's common law rights
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 6: unless unless the husband and wife have made agreements to
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 6: the contrary before and after the marriage, or the father
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: or other friend or relative of the wife. So there's
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 6: a whole set of people, not just not just you know,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: she passes this property from father to husband, So the
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: father can do this, she can do it, another relative
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 6: can do it, a friend of the family can do it.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: Has safeguarded the wife's rights by the creation of a
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: trust or otherwise which agreements and trust made and due
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: form are valid and equity and will be enforced by
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 6: courts of equity, which as we just pointed out supersede
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 6: common law. So, in other words, in the absence of
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 6: valid agreements and actions to the contrary, the default basically
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 6: if the couple isn't doing something else, or if the
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 6: wife hasn't made under other arrangements, if he so desires,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 6: his or his creditors or other litigants may assert a
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 6: husband's wife or the wife over the wife's property, a
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 6: husband's right over the wife's property within the limits set
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 6: by specific rules of common law, and common law courts
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: will enforce them in case of litigation. So only if
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 6: she leaves this completely open for him to do that, Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, And even like courts of equity would actually
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: they would they they would make exceptions when exceptions were relevant, right, Like,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 5: so I read about this one case where this the
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 5: the husband booted the wife out Okay, she was pregnant
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 5: and booted her out right, and he wanted to keep
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: all the property, and the included in the property was
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: the layette right, which is all of the linens and
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 5: supplies that you would need uh to take care of
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: an infant right, and he wanted to keep those, and
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: the court said no, no, right, it doesn't even matter
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: that you had just cause to boot her out because
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 5: I think she cheated on him or something, right, and
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: so he had he had cause to separate, cause to
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: boot her out of the house, right, and and not
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: take responsibility for her. But like, what use do you
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: have for these linens?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: She's having the milkman's child, right, she can take him,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: and when baby doesn't need them anymore, she'll return them.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: So you want to listen to more the video?
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not really, but yes, yeah, But anyway, So that's
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: the long discussion on why we can't trust Blackwell, although
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 2: I will add that he's misrepresenting Blackwell, so not only Blackstone. Yes,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: there's a Maxwell in all of this. That's why I
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: keep making that mistake Blackstone. He's miss He's actually misrepresenting Blackstone,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: which himself misrepresented the law. So we're several misrepresentations deep
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: into this.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: OK you no? All right, So we're going to talk
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 3: about laws concerning women, which I guess he is showing
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: as itself being an absurd thing, like, how look at
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: this is already sexist? How could there be laws concerning women?
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: It's almost like they're a special class of person. All right,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: let's play it.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: A feminist women's rights activist of the night teenth century
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: wrote a brief summary in plain language of the laws
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: of England concerning women in eighteen fifty six, describing the
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: impact of coverture in great detail. A man and wife
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: are one person in law. The wife loses all her
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: rights as a single woman, and her existence is entirely
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: absorbed into that of her husband. He is civilly responsible
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: for her acts, and she lives under his protection or cover,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: and her condition is called coverture. What was her personal
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: property before marriage, such as money in hand, money at
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: the bank, jewelry, household goods, clothes, becomes absolutely her husband's,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: and he may assign or dispose of them at his pleasure,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: whether he and his wife live together or not. Money
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: earned by a married woman belongs absolutely to her husband.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: A married woman cannot sue or be sued for contracts.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: Now can she enter into contracts except as the agent
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: of her husband if she okay?
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 6: So everything there, Yeah, all the stuff that we just
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 6: pointed out kind of discredits everything you just said there.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 6: We just pointed out that not only could women make
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 6: arrangements within their marriage that made that untrue that a
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 6: woman has to agree to that when getting married if
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 6: her husband, she and her husband have decided that that
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: should be the case. But also, you know, it's possible
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 6: for her family members, especially with things with regard to
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 6: property that she's bringing from her father's family, you know,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 6: like an inheritance or a dowry that she's bringing. It's
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 6: something that can be protected. And she may not even
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 6: have to make that stipulation. He might. So it's already
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 6: we've already kind of addressed all of that, and it's
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 6: all he's all. He's wrong on all of it. He's
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 6: stating partial truths and leaving out parts of the story
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 6: that determine that that is not actually something that women
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 6: couldn't avoid.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: All right, I'm gonna play some more here we go.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: Unites herself to a man. The law immediately steps in,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: and she finds herself legislated for and her condition of
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: life suddenly and entirely changed. Whatever age she may be of,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: she is again considered as an infant. Is again all.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: Those marriage ambushes, you know, just coming out of nowhere,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: just jumping on a woman, Like, first.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: Of all, she's not considered an infant, right, She's considered
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 5: the assistant to the CEO of the business, uh operation,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: her lifestyle. Yeah, like that, that's that's what she is.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 5: And you know, like, okay, you know there there were
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 5: probably a lot of unhappy marriages, right, like when when
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: you look at sort of the exchange that's going on here,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: which is like, okay, he's he's responsible financially to manage
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: the entire financial operation the corporation. That is, the marriage
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 5: right and the family right. He's responsible for that, and
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: she's responsible for giving him kids, right. And I suppose
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: there are a lot of people who got the shaft right,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 5: you know, like the men whose wives turned out to
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 5: be barren and the women whose husband's turned out to
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 5: be fiscally irresponsible and wastrels.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, and that's sail because of it, Like that's the problem.
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: Like if your husband was incapable of paying your debts,
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: he went to jail. So it seems like a problem
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: that solved itself in some ways.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but you know, like if you're incapable of giving
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: him children, I mean like unless you're married to Henry
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 5: the eighth, you probably don't have a whole lot of
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 5: worries there.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: No, no, and you don't like honestly, this he's citing
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: a This is a political opinion piece that he's citing.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, this is somebody's a highly biased reading of
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: the law.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: Might be a Guardian article.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's basically citing a Guardian article.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 7: From Yeah, he's citing basically the equivalent of the Guardian
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 7: article whose headline was.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 5: The anguish of being a fifty to fifty mom. Oh,
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 5: so you have to share custody fifty to fifty and
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: that's anguish and we should feel sorry for you that
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: you didn't get the whole fucking thing. Yeah, you have to.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 5: You have to let the kids be with dad forty
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 5: to fifty percent of the time, and we're supposed to
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 5: feel sorry for you, not sorry for all the dads
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 5: who get the case it's zero percent of the time
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 5: or every other weekend. No, no, we have to feel
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 5: sorry for you because you're shafted by this unfair law
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: of equal parenting.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, if you read through this, this is
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: the part where they just they turn on the opinion piece.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 2: This is what she's he's citing. This is remarks. You
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: know what remarks means? I have an opinion. Okay, he's
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: citing someone's opinion and that opinion is an extremely biased
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: screed about how the law harms women. And you know,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: maybe there's some truth to it. However, the assumption that
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: men did this intentionally is wrong.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: Well they did it intentionally, yeah, but not intentionally to
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 5: harm women.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: But it's like this, I've read the remarks, Okay, I
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: don't know if you guys read it. She's upset that
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: the law isn't accommodating something that is completely a new circumstance,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: which is women earning their own money in the outside world.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, which is women, upper class women earning their
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 6: own because lower class women did do that, but they
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: did it because their families would starve if they didn't.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, So she's talking about, you know, women who are
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: earning money over and above their immediate needs, right, and
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: she's and men in these families have control over that money,
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: right supposedly except for the guy who ended up in
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: jail because he couldn't pay his wife's taxes, right, that's
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: the that's the allegation that Okay, So she's saying that
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: women need to be able to control their income, right, Okay,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: fair enough, But this only became an issue once they
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: were able to go out into the workplace because the
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: public life was safe enough, comfortable enough, hadn't tear indoor plumbing,
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: which is a huge issue. Like everybody listening to this,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: women were restricted to the home because they had nowhere
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: to piss, like this was a huge issue. Once they
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: had into indoor plumbing, you know it, lighting, the public
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: life was comfortable. Women could have jobs because they could
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: go to the bathroom at their jobs. Right then the
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: issue became that women were bringing in their own money,
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: but the old laws said that men had control over
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: that because men were responsible for the necessities. Under the
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: assumption is that the men were the brunds bringing in
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: the money. So the old laws didn't apply properly. So
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: she's saying men did this too. No, the law just
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: didn't keep up with current circumstance, right it, so it
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: needed to be changed, and it was, except when it
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: was changed, it was changed in a way that was
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 2: completely oblivious to the situation for men, leading to that
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: very that guy dying after going to jail because he
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: couldn't pay for taxes. Like all right, and this dude
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 2: right here sitting and looking at me with the most
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: contemptuously patronizing face I've ever seen could you forehead wrinkle
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 2: with any more concerned concerned wrinkles?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 5: There?
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Ugh, it has no willingness to look at the entire
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: picture of this. He is basically citing an opinion piece
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: by someone who literally manifestly did not look at the
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: situation for men, because everything led to a guy dying
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: in a debt or dying after getting out of a
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: debtor's prison, no doubt didn't have to do it, and
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: do it and wonders for his health. Right, So her
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: advocacy this document literally leads to the situation being so
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: bad for men because nobody thought stopped and said, hey, wait,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: what about the situation for men?
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: No, they just listen if we if we over here,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 5: what's going to happen over there?
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 6: Yeah?
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they just listened to this opinion piece by a
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: feminist who framed the entire thing as oppression of women.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: They were we got to change the law to protect
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 4: the women.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: They changed it, and they constructed a situation where this
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: Elizabeth I think it was, could send her husband to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: jail for not paying her taxes.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 5: No, it's it's like the argument from feminists is that
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 5: this was all completely arbitrary and malicious. Yes, it wasn't
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: necessary right, therefore it had to be malicious. Right, it
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 5: didn't benefit women in any way whatsoever. Therefore it had
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: it only privileged men. Therefore it had to have been
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 5: malicious right on the part of the men who made
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 5: the laws. Right, And no, that's never been the case.
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 5: That is, that has never been the case in any
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: society on the planet.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: That was the framing the law. Man makers went into
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 2: this based on these women's advocacy. They went into the law.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: They did not consider the situation for men. They changed
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: it to benefit women without considering the responsibilities placed on men,
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: and they constructed a situation where a very ill man
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: had to go to jail for his wife's debt and
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: subsequently died. That's what happened. So he is citing a
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: document which is actually in the context, the entire context,
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: proving the exact opposite of what he's saying. This issue
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: was not made by men. Men didn't go out and
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: say we want to punish, we want to restrict women,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: we want to take their money. The arbitrarily, the getting them,
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: We don't know. This was a situation where the law
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: didn't apply to current circumstance. Because current circumstance had changed,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: feminists said, oh, that's actually men's cruelty to women. Lawmakers
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: went in under that impression change the law without considering
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: its effect on men. Right, So this entire thing, including
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: the document he's citing in its context, proves exactly the
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: opposite of what he's saying. Congratulations, X pay ex patriot,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: X patriar, you have just disproven yourself. You've debunked yourself
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: by citing this document without understanding the historical or legal
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: context of it.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 6: He actually is a patriarchal patriarchy love and wominist. I
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 6: get a song about this a few years ago when
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 6: I could sing better, not well, but better than I
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 6: can sing now, and I still stand by it. Like feminist,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 6: men who do this love the concept of patriarchy because
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 6: it gives them a reason to browbeat other men if
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 6: it's really and true. It gives them something to beat
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 6: other men over the head with and feel special, to
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 6: feel special, and also feel like women owe them some
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 6: sort of gratitude for what they're doing because they're somehow
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 6: helping to rescue women from the evil patriarchy. Because that's
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 6: your patriarchal patriarchy, love and womenist.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: Could you imagine people in like twenty three twenty five
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: three looking back at Guardian articles and thinking, oh, they
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: oppressed their women so badly. Yeah, could you believe that
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: they allowed them to do gang bangs? Oh my god,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: that was such oppression of women, such oppression of women.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: They didn't even let them have They didn't even let
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: them have I don't know what they didn't have. What
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: are those things called bank accounts? They didn't look them
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: up bank accounts in twenty twenty five. Didn't you know
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: that Karen were living in the age of horrible women's oppression. Literally,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: if you looked at in a century, if they look
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: back at Guardian articles, they'll think that we whip our
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: women and and grape.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: Them in the streets. Yeah, this is what he's doing.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: He's looking back at a Guardian article written by a
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 2: feminist lawyer who not only got what she wanted but
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: basically made it, made a gigantic hole in the law
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: that hit men really hard.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: Feminist lawyer in the late eighteen hundreds, How is it
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 3: possible that men allowed that?
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: She might not have been a lawyer. I might might
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 2: be exaggerating it.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: Well, there were lawyers at that time, there were female lawyers, doctors, journalists,
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: like they existed.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 4: Did you know.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: I went to Rome and I found out that thirty
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: percent of the brick foundries in Rome were owned by women.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: And like brick foundries were like the one of the
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: biggest industries, and that was that was a male like
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 2: that brick foundry was generally considered a male industry. So
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: thirty percent of the brick foundries being owned by women,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: you have to wonder how many of the breweries, the butchers,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: the tailories, the the tanners, the bakeries were owned by women.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 7: Yeah, no, no, it's it's it's like you you well,
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 7: you look at you look at There were two ways
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 7: for at least in England, for women to become master tradesmen, right,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 7: and one was to learn the trade from their husband
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 7: and then he dies and then she just takes over
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 7: the business.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 5: There were a lot of butchers and blacksmiths and stuff
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 5: like that, women who they didn't maybe do it themselves right,
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 5: but they were able to take on journeymen and apprentices
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 5: right and and run the business that way and have
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: be solely owned right. Same with butchers and stuff like that. Right,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 5: But most of the women who got into the trades
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 5: because webster, Baxter and brewster stir is the female suffix
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 5: of a surname, right, weaver, these are the female counterparts
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 5: of weaver, baker and brewer, okay, And they dominated those
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 5: trades because they were generally a lot less hot and
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 5: sweaty and all of the rest. And they were a
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 5: way to apply a skill, like a learned skill, right.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 5: And those women were predominantly orphans, you know, who came
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 5: out of orphanages at age twelve or thirteen and wanted
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 5: an opportunity because they didn't have marriage prospects at all.
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 5: They wanted an opportunity to learn how to do a
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 5: skilled trade and support themselves throughout their lives. And brewing, baking,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 5: and weaving are things that you don't have to travel for. Like,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 5: there's a reason it's called journeymen, right, is because they
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 5: would go from town to town right on not always
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 5: safe roads, right for years before they managed to acquire
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 5: master status and then set up shop somewhere, put down
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 5: routes some very roads, right, very unsafe roads.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: But the brewing and weaving and baking industries right. Those
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: were things that were a lot more settled in one place,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: and and you didn't have to travel, right, You didn't
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 5: have traveling bakers going from town to town or traveling
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 5: weavers going from town to town. Right, So you'd make
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: your product in one spot and then you would send
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 5: the men out to take it from town to town
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 5: to sell it or whatever. Right, and yeah, no, and
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 5: they they dominated those trades, which were fairly uh. Same
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 5: with things like goldsmiths and silversmiths and things like that.
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 5: There were there were women all over the trades. You know,
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 5: being a goldsmith or a silversmith didn't involve a lot
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 5: of like banging a giant hammer on an anvil all day, right,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: and uh.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 2: And over again, those trades that women could reasonably do
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 2: with their physical abilities, they did. You also see it
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: in lace making and something that was incredibly lucrative, which
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: was silk spinning.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 5: Yes, and and you know, like you look at you
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 5: look at being a oh what are they called far eers? Right, Yeah,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 5: you're gonna get kicked in the head by a horse,
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 5: yeah right, Yeah, No, So women didn't really do that, coopers,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 5: women didn't really do that because you're using these big,
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 5: long frickin' knives, you know, and you're banging the metal
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 5: rings to make the big barrels and stuff right, and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 5: to shape the staves and make the barrels right. They
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 5: weren't really involved in that so much, right, and those
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 5: kinds of trades very much, right. But you know you
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 5: had female apothecaries and you know, like all kinds of yes,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 5: of those things from the fourteen hundreds and earlier in
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 5: the UK, right.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: There were women who were physicians in like the eleventh
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: eleventh century.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 5: Yes, or they're earlier, right, like earlier, like you're talking,
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 5: you know, you're talking about female physicians, you know, in
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 5: ancient Rome, ancient grins.
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: I sense that Brian wishes to move on.
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm sorry that I even made that joke.
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: But let's play some more of his video here. This
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 3: is still talking about coverture laws, and I think that
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: a lot of it has been addressed, but we'll listen
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: to a little bit more coverture and its implications. And
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: then there's the evolution of women's rights.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: Which is a little bit Let's hear this opinion on
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: the Guardian piece from eighteen fifty yea that.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: Is brought up as evidence she loses her separate existence
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: and has merged into that of her husband.
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 3: She is no, I was gonna say, it goes both ways.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: Like literally, two bodies, one flesh. That's the purpose of
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 3: marriage as a as a religious sacrament. But I mean,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: I mean we're not I know, we're not here to
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 3: talk about that, but that is an aspect that you
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: have to understand. Like, in these years, almost everyone that
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 3: was making these laws were Christians, so that was like
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: everyone was on the same page basically like women too.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: This wasn't like a thing where actually, yeah, go ahead.
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 2: About Blackstone cites pagan law, which was not fun.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 3: It was.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 2: It was very draconian in some ways for women. But yeah,
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: everybody like you're, like Brian was saying, everybody's on the
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: page that marriage put makes men and women into one flesh.
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and so it's not just women that lose
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 3: their per their their personhood. Men do too in a way.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, back how you're going to frame it.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: I just want to remind everyone this is this is
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: the eighteen fifties equivalent of a Guardian article.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: She might be a feminist lawyer, she might have a
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 2: legal uh, a legal you know, status background, but she's
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: still this is still her opinion on the law. Right,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: this is her opinion on the law. That's what we
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: are reading right now. Okay, so, and this is his
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: opinion on a feminist lawyer's opinion in eighteen fifty on
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: the law or suffragette's lawyer suffrages.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: Okay, continue, Yeah, I got a rumble rant. So Nova
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 3: fan twenty one gave us a rumble rant, thank you,
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: and for a dollar and says, honestly, the more and
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: more about how women were treated in what they call patriarchy,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: I end up liking it more and more. Can vertical
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 3: chat tell me more about how to create that society?
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Nova Fan twenty one. If you're not on Rumble,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: you should follow us on Rumble. It is fast growing fast,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 3: it's a great platform. But anyway, all right, so let
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: us continue this video.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Nothing of herself. She has no legal right to any property.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: Not even her clothes, books, or household goods are her own,
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: and any money she earns can be rubbed from her
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: legally by her husband. This covering also extended to children
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: in the marriage. The legal custody children belongs again.
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: This is this the thrust of this article is the
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: change from women not earning income to women earning income,
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: although women did earn income. Actually, probably the real thrust
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: is that rich women are now earning income in jobs
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: that they.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: Enjoy substantial income.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 4: Substantial income.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: Okay, So the whole issue for this article, and it's
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: an article, it's not law. He's not citing a first source.
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 2: He's citing someone's opinion, is that rich women are now
• 1:33:27
  Speaker 2: can earn income. And this individual is upset that men
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 2: control it, right, even though she still has a husband
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: who's obligated to her upkeep and her debts. Now that
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: the circumstances has changed and rich women earn income, now
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: we ought to deal with it right, and we have
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: to deal with it in the most bad faith way possible.
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: Not a recognition that the law is the way it
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: is because of a circumstance that's no longer in play. No,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: it has to be because men deliberately went out and
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: harmed women.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, well, and again he is ignoring the fact that
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 6: women could choose to not the husbands to control their property. Yes, well,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 6: and women could earn money. Middle or upper class women
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 6: could earn money before that. It's just that it became
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 6: a more common choice. Yes, over time.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: That that's what this article is about. That's what this
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: article is addressing. And the thing is that when they're
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: in the marriage and they're earning money, apparently the man
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: could steal it all from them. Although that's interesting because even.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 5: Though he's legally obligated to use it to support.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: Her, yeah, yeah, and pay for her taxes. Right. So
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: again we're we're this is an opinion piece on the
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: law and that, and it's an opinion piece about something
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: that's changing. Right, So this is like, if we step
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: back a generation back, women aren't writing these opinion pieces
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: because the situation is not a problem for them. They're
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: not They don't have their own they don't have significant
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: income that they're rich women. Sorry, rich women don't have
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: significant income that they're bringing into the family. Right that they.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 5: Want if they do. Their fathers when cart did a
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 5: carve out in, you know, in the marriage contract to
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 5: protect that and keep it.
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 2: For her or anybody else in their family, did that, right,
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: But he's completely misrepresenting the situation. It only applies to
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: women's income, doesn't apply to the property. As we have
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: discussed at length, there were plenty of ways for women
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: to control their property. And even in Blackstone, which he
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 2: cites but then never seems to reference women had control
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: over property because and I know they did, because Blackstone
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: explicitly says that women couldn't give men their husbands their
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: property that they had control over without a third party
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: making sure that they didn't do it under duress. Yeah,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: so why would you have that in law if women
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: couldn't couldn't control their own property. Right they had their
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: own property, they would separate it out legally prior to marriage,
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: and then if the husband was like, I want that property,
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: they would have to go to the wife, take her
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: away from her husband, and discuss it with her without.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 4: His input, to make sure she was doing.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: Under her own violation. So, even though you know he's
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: citing Blackstone, who himself there's plenty of criticism of he
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 2: isn't even freaking honestly citing Blackstone.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, ignoring humongous parts of Blackstone.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: I gave Brian a document that's Blackstone's commentaries on the
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: Laws of England. We could go to that passage and
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 2: show everyone that women had the ability to control their
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: own property and marriage. They just didn't have the ability
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: to control the marital property.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 6: Well, and they didn't have the ability to agree that
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 6: their husbands can have control over their property and then
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 6: take get back later without cause.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 6: Okay, so basically women had to keep their word.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 3: Let's uh, let's jump ahead to the bit of a wait, but.
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 5: I want to do what's on the screen. The legal
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 5: custody of children belongs to the father, Yeah, because he
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 5: paid for them, because he was the sole person legally bound,
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 5: legally obligated to pay for them. Right. The mother unless
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: she was single, if she was married, right, and she
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 5: had been in the family, she fucked off, right, Uh,
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 5: she didn't get to take the kids because she wasn't
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 5: obligated to pay for them. Right. So if she took
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 5: the kids, then all of a sudden, if she gets
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 5: custody legal custody of the kids, and all of a sudden,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 5: her children's have the children of the marriage, that children
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 5: of the marriage household is now her household and her
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 5: ex has to pay for everything. So she can just
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 5: leave on a whim, right, take the kids with her,
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 5: and he's still on the fucking hook for the entire bill.
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 5: And for some strange reason, people back then didn't think
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 5: that was fair, so the person who paid for the
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 5: kids was the person who whose household the kids were
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 5: raised in.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 6: It also helped to prevent women with children.
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 5: Trumpid and county and leaving their husbands.
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 6: From becoming burdens on the state.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: Language.
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it also helped to prevent women from from making
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 6: themselves and their children burdens on the state. After the
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 6: dissolution of the monasteries, when the church became less responsible
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 6: for what we would today call welfare and the state
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 6: pretty much became the only place to get what we
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 6: would today call welfare, the state created a bunch of laws.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 6: The king, like the crown. I shouldn't say the king,
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 6: because the poor laws were from Queen Elizabeth, But the
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 6: crown had to deal with the fact that people would
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 6: if they had the opportunity, and women in particular, simply
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 6: rely on state coffers rather than their own ingenuity and
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 6: their own capability to work and so on and so married. Yeah,
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 6: or get married. So there were a bunch of laws
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 6: that had to be passed during that time period. And
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 6: if you actually go back and you connect the dots
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 6: between those laws, the poor laws, and the way that
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 6: custody was handled, Yeah, you realize that everybody that's familiar
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 6: with welfare reform from the year two thousand should be
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 6: also familiar with the English poor laws, and you should
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 6: get a sense of day javu when you compare the two.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 6: All of that stuff was tried before and failed. And
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 6: the only real way to prevent women and children or
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 6: women with children from making themselves and their children wards
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 6: of the state is to hold them accountable for breaking
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 6: their agreements with their husbands when they abandon marriage, and
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 6: to prefer paternal custody as opposed to maternal custody or
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 6: equally shared parenting, such that women are responsible and they
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 6: are as responsible as the man for supporting the children,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 6: or they are responsible for maintaining the marriage.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to play the next bit. I mean,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 3: because he was just gonna talk about the children, but
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 3: you guys just addressed that, so let's just jump ahead,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: uh about here, I think okay.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: Speaking the wife's personal property, the wife argued that since
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: Texas was still covered by cuverture law and she was
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: prevented from entering into legal contracts as her own legal entity,
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: the government had no right to seize her personal property
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: to cover her husband's debts, and the Supreme Court agreed,
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: though in his descent, Justice Black wrote the Texas Law
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: of Coverture, which was adopted by its judges and the
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: state legislature has now largely abandoned, rests on the old
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: common law fiction that the husband and wife are one.
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: This rule has worked out in reality to mean, though
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: the husband and wife are one, the one is the husband.
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: This fiction rested on what I had supposed is today
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: a completely discredited notion that a married woman, being a female,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: is without the capacity to make her own contracts and
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: do her own business. And Yet, while claiming that coviture
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: was largely abandoned, the Court also recognized that ten states Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Nevada,
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: North Carolina, and Texas all had coverture laws that limited
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: the capacity of married women to conduct legal contracts to
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: some degree.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: It's also, yeah, they limited the capacity of married women
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 2: to conduct legal contracts in which they were deposing of
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 2: their property with their husbands.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: Like, isn't it Isn't it funny how he gets very
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: specific when he's trying to like make arguments in favor
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: of his bias. But when he clearly like when things
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: are a little bit muddier, he just says to some degree,
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 3: he uses equivocation, equivocative statements right that are kind of vague,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 3: because then nobody's going to look into it. It's be like, oh,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: women's they're limited to some degree. That basically means completely
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 3: without looking into it, which most people are not going
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: to do well.
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 6: And a half of what he said here is that
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 6: we've just credited. YEA half the stuff that we've said
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 6: he's said here is stuff that we've already discredited. But
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 6: it's interesting that he points out that at that point
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 6: there were only ten states that still had any kind
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 6: of coviture laws, and there were only some limitations in
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 6: regard to those coviture laws. And what he is citing
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 6: is essentially, a woman cannot run up debt in her
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 6: husband's name without her husband's consent. That remained for years,
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 6: and feminists thought to get rid of that, so that
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 6: a woman could run up debt in her husband's name
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 6: without her husband's consent. And a woman today can do that.
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 6: And I have seen men financially devastated by that condition,
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 6: where women have run up debt in their name, and
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 6: it goes both ways. A man can can in a
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 6: marriage run up debt in both of their names, and
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 6: then the wife goes to leave and she discovers that
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 6: there's all this debt she didn't know about. And so
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 6: it's a bad thing.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 5: For a fifteen fifty, it's fifty to fifty. It's like
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 5: it's the marital property and the marital debt, you know.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 5: And here here in Alberta. And I don't know whether
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 5: they got rid of it yet. But when we were
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 5: buying this house, right, we were buying it from my
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 5: mother in law, and well, we had all the paperwork,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 5: mortgage was approved and everything was like ready to go,
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 5: and and she went to her lawyer and he was like,
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 5: wait a minute, you mean I thought John was dead.
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 5: I thought he was deceased. This changes everything, changes everything. Right, Well,
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 5: John was in a long term care facility for people
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 5: with dimension and Alzheimer's and he was not mentally he
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 5: was non compost mentis but he was still alive. And
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 5: at some point in the nineteen fifties or something in Alberta,
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 5: our coverture law regarding dour rights okay had been updated
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 5: to be gender neutral. Right. So it used to be
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 5: that a man couldn't sell his solely owned property if
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 5: the war had a life interest in it, if she
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 5: had an interest in living there, right, he could not
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 5: sell it without her signing off on it, right. And
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 5: then they made it gender neutral. No spouse can sell
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 5: their solely held property without the other spouse's consent. Right,
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 5: And so my mother in law was like, what the hell,
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 5: so I can't I can't sell my own house. This
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 5: is my own house. I bought this house. It's in
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 5: my name only, right, and I can't sell it. You're
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 5: telling me I can't sell it without his signature. But
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 5: he's non compost He's been declared non compost mentis right.
• 1:45:43
  Speaker 5: I have power of attorney over him. I should be
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 5: able to sign off on it. And he's like, no,
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 5: that's not good enough. You have to actually go to
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 5: court and apply for guardianship over him in order to
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 5: be able to sign off on his behalf.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 5: So it was like a big fucking fiasco, right, all
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 5: based on laws that were designed to protect women from
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 5: selling their their homes out from under them, Like I'm
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 5: sconding with the secretary. Really interesting selling the house out
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 5: from under, because there are comments.
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: Under this video that say that their their mother, their
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 2: grandmother had her house sold out from under her. And
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: I was like, wait, what about dour laws?
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah, right, different different rights occurred in different countries, and
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 6: there were states, and that took time in the United States, but.
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 5: I don't, you know, but have existed. Dour rights have
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 5: existed for as long as coverture has right right, you know,
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 5: and and.
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 6: There I don't think that was an easy thing to
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 6: do in the United States, even though it was a possibility,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 6: it was something that you would have to take. There'd
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 6: have to be a bunch of legally maneuvering or legal
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 6: maneuvering taking place. Now in my family history.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 5: And it was, it was it was still a gendered
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 5: law right until.
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 6: My family has some of that. My on my my
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 6: dad's side of the family, his parents were divorced and
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 6: his father came from a divorce before marrying his mother,
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 6: So it was there were there were property things that
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 6: I learned about in regard to that that over time,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 6: women did gain more control over property because of the
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 6: issues of divorce. But those circumstances were actually much more
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 6: rare than feminists make them out. To be, and it would.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 6: It did take a lot of clever maneuvering on a
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 6: man's part. It wasn't just some straightforward well, you know,
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 6: he can sell the house out from under her and
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 6: there's nothing she can do about it. Women still had
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 6: recourse in divorce cases. There was alimony, there was child support,
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 6: and it was based on income and based on expenses,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 6: and there was there was fault divorce. It wasn't called that,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 6: but basically, if the husband cheated and then left, the
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 6: court punished him for it financially.
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 5: If the wife cheated.
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 6: If the wife cheated and left, the court didn't always
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 6: punish her financially. They might they might punish her in
• 1:48:19
  Speaker 6: terms of deeming her as a mother.
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 5: And so she couldn't get custody awarding her not awarding
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 5: her alimony, Yeah, not a warning her as much alimony.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 6: Of course, if she remarried after the marriage was over,
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 6: alimony would end, right, And so there were things It
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 6: kind of there was more accountability in terms of getting
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 6: divorced during that time period. So I have my doubts
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 6: that a woman was in a situation where a man
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 6: was just able to sell the house out from under
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 6: her during a divorce or especially especially if she'd lived
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 6: in it for any period of time. It just seems
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 6: like there had to be some other factors going on
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 6: aren't being mentioned here.
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: Can I just point something out? The way that he
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: discusses the states that still had coviture laws suggests that
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 2: there's some kind of horrible conspiracy, when in fact, it's
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: just like, as I said, the persistence of law. They
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: a lot like British common law. A lot of the
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: states adopted a lot of British common law. So it
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: probably was a situation where you had a blank slate,
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 2: you grabbed some law from somewhere, right, and then if
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: it didn't apply, then you worked with it to make
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 2: it work with your situation. Right, So they just grab
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: British law and saw if it applied for their situation
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: and then changed things, which is what they did. They
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: blow didn't work for American women, they changed it. And
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 2: he's constructing this narrative like the fact that they didn't
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: just invent law whole cloth out of women's needs from
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: day one is oppression of women.
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 6: It isn't, And it's it's funny because an institution, the
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 6: evolution of how law was created all ran along lines
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 6: of male obligation right from back back in the King
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 6: John days, where the barons actually had to go to
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 6: war with the king in order to enforce the right
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 6: of at least the people who were financing the King's wars,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 6: to have us say in the King's lawmaking. And and
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 6: then this had to be done again when it's done.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 2: Financing and prosecuting.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 6: Because they were financing and prosecuting, they all had to fight,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 6: or they had to send their own mercenaries, their own subjects.
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 6: And so that the the whole parliamentary system evolved out
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 6: of common council. I think it was called common Council.
• 1:50:54
  Speaker 6: I always want to call it Great Council, but I
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 6: believe it was common council. Uh And and that right
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 6: was established long before him, and he disrespected it. He
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 6: chose to ignore it. And that's that's what the first
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 6: Baron war came out of, what the original iteration of
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 6: the Magna Carta came out of, what the entire parliamentary
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 6: system came out of, and what all of English common
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 6: law after that evolved out of. Then then there had
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 6: to be a second barons were against his son for
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 6: the same reasons pretty much that the king was ignoring
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 6: the council and basically saying, no, I'm going to spend
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 6: your money and I'm not going to talk to you
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 6: about how I'm doing it.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 4: Get you know, get.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 6: Me your fighters. We're going to do these these violent
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 6: conflicts after I've made all these bad decisions, and the
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 6: people finally turned around and said fuck you know, yeah,
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 6: the men you know, this was this was one of
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 6: those moments. So when women say, you know, we didn't
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 6: get get primary consideration in this is because women were
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 6: not involved. Women didn't have to fund the king's wars,
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 6: Women didn't have to fight in a king's wars. Women
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 6: still had voting rights, Women still had had some determination
• 1:52:09
  Speaker 6: as to who got onto that council, and when it
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 6: evolved into Parliament with a House of Commons and a
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 6: House of Lords, as long as women met the economic
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 6: conditions to vote, they had voting rights.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: Wow, which is really funny because that whole system evolved
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: out of the system of defending orders in order to
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: you know, stop wholesale invasion and destruction of the civilians.
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 6: Right now, voting rights have never not been for men,
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 6: tied to the condition that men defend the.
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 2: Country, protect the state that gives them those rights right,
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 2: and that there's absolutely no getting around that. And it
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 2: really hit home when I was researching an argument that
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: feminists made about black men's suffrage, and they they were
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: because I was pointing out that suffrage has been tied
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: to to service in wartime, and they said they would
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: they you know, they pointed out the whole situation. And
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: I actually looked up the arguments made by black men
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: for their suffrage, and right in like the first paragraph,
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: it's like, we fought a war to defend and preserve
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: the state, so we have done our duty and now we,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: you know, humbly present the case to be given suffrage.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 4: And that's that's another difference.
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 5: You can you can find it. You can find it
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 5: all over you know, the universal suffrage in the UK, right,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 5: you know, all over the debates. Hanswered, I believe it
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 5: is the archive, you know, all of the parliamentary debates.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 5: That the thing that really came out was if he's
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 5: fit to fight, he's fit to be, is fit to vote,
• 1:54:02
  Speaker 5: and that there are no classes in a foxhole. You
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 5: know that this is that all men earned this right.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 5: And then you look at how they implemented suffrage they
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 5: implemented it for all men twenty one and over and
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 5: all women thirty five and over right, and that was
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 5: because they did not so many men had died in
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 5: World War One that they did not want to create
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 5: a supermajority voting block made up solely of women. So
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 5: the twenty one year old women had to wait for
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 5: a while before they got their vote right, until the
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 5: population of males had somewhat recovered. In Canada. You look
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 5: at the first women who to be given suffrage right.
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 5: The first women were something like two thousand military nurses
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 5: in World War One who were at the simultaneously with
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 5: men who served, given the vote at age eighteen, which
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 5: is the age at which you are legally allowed or
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 5: required to serve, and in conjunction with their conscription legislation
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 5: that called eighteen year olds to serve, they gave eighteen
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 5: year old men and male conscripts and service members all
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 5: of them and any female service members who were currently
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 5: serving right gave them the vote at age eighteen. Good job, Canada, right,
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 5: because if you're fit to serve, then you're fit to vote.
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 6: Even the taxation standards and property ownership standards that affected
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 6: who could vote prior to universal suffrage, were tied into
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 6: military service. The prototype for taxation was barons funding the
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 6: king's ability to get mercenaries from his area if they
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 6: were a distance away and couldn't get knights to him
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 6: in order to fight his battles.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 4: From what from mart.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 5: And you look at you look at the evolution evolution
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 5: of suffrage in the UK too. I think it was
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 5: after eighteen sixty. There were a lot of men who
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 5: were on the voter rules who did not qualify to vote, right,
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 5: I think at that point it was about sixty percent
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 5: of men were allowed to vote who didn't technically qualify. Well,
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 5: why didn't they technically qualify because they didn't own land.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 5: They didn't own property like real property, non movable property,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 5: but they rented and their landlord said, well, if you
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 5: want to, you can pay my property tax in your
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 5: name and cheat the system and get the vote.
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 6: Hmm.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 2: But from my reading, just to get back to the
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 2: system like that led to the met magna carta. Prior
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: to being able to buy their way out of service,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: barons or I think they were like jarles at the
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: time or something, but they would have to yarls, they
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: would have to actually serve.
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 4: So they It.
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: Started where you'd have a king, they and they his
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 2: bondsman would be obligated to serve in his wars. And
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 2: then it evolved to if they could pay there, they
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 2: could pay their way out of that. Then they could
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 2: they could not do this, So that's where the taxes
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: come in, is paying your way out of having to
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: serve in war. But this is the this is the thing,
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: like the whole edifice, like all of the state that
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 2: we understand it to be. In the past could be
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: seen more as a simple utility of defending the borders.
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: And that's it. That's just it. And that the thing
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: is that we look at the past and we say, well,
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 2: women didn't have a say in it, Well, women don't
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: really have a say in water like the the the
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: sewer system utility.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 6: They they they did have a say in it. But
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 6: people don't realize from the moment.
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: For the sake of argument, for the sake of argument,
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 2: even if women had absolutely no say in it. If
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: you look at utilities today that are majority built, maintained
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: and run by men, women don't have much say in
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: the operation of those either. Right if and you're right,
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 2: women did have a say in it, they had to
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: say absolutely disproportionate to their actual maintenance of the system
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 2: and sacrifice in the system, because it was always on men.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 2: But even if they didn't, the fact is that men
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 2: were the ones running the utility, the ones building the utility,
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: the ones manning the utility, the one sacrificing for the utility.
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 2: Of course they had the greatest say in it. Like
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 2: it's just like men are the ones doing the work
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: building the sewers. They have the best, the most saying
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 2: where the sewers go, how they're operated, how they're manned.
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 2: It's just it's exactly the same. And that that fabled
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: twenty three twenty five will look back and say, well,
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 2: women didn't have equal vote in the running of the
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 2: sewers and the electrical companies and the and it's like, well, yes,
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 2: of course they didn't. They weren't doing the work.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 5: Of course, women.
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: Don't have the vote when it when the state was
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 2: simply a utility defending the borders.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 4: They didn't do that.
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 6: They think they did. They did have the vote, they
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 6: just had to mean the same conditions as the men.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 6: And then on top of that, in addition to being
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 6: able to vote, if they made the same financial conditions
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 6: as the men. You didn't go into a little booth
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 6: with a little shield that kept everybody from seeing how
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 6: you voted when voting started in medieval times. And this
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 6: continued right up until I think we talked about this,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 6: like I keep saying, we talked about this on HBr Talk.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 6: I did a whole long series bringing this in to
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 6: my co hosts on HBr Talk and letting them see
• 2:00:13
  Speaker 6: it and talking about it. I'm in the process of
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 6: creating a timeline that I'll make public when I get
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 6: it done. I have to pay to make it public,
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 6: so I don't want to keep paying for it over
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 6: and over again. But in any case, as voting evolved,
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 6: it went through several iterations of you vote in public,
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 6: and everybody men, women, children, people from other communities. If
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 6: they come on voting day, they can see how you
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 6: vote and they can respond later to how you voted.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 6: So if you vote for something, if you vote to
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 6: send a particular person to Parliament or to Great Council,
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 6: to air Common Council, and that person's actions turn out
• 2:00:57
  Speaker 6: to be not beneficial to the community, or just the
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 6: women don't like it, you know, they come back to
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 6: you later, Well, you voted for this, and we're going
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 6: to hold it against you. And here's the ways that
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 6: we're going to hold it against you. There's there's no privacy,
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 6: there's no uh secret vote, there's no none of that
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 6: until after the United States is formed and after it
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 6: changes in the United States.
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and the way was left okay, just no, no, no, no,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: Like this is really funny. The way that it might be,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: you might find it insulting. The way I've described it
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: to people on the left is imagine, imagine a American
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: like the the the the running between Kamala Harris and Trump,
• 2:01:42
  Speaker 2: and everybody had to vote for Trump publicly. Imagine what
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 2: how that would have distorted everything?
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 5: Oh? Yeah, no, and and if you if you look
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 5: at it, like that was one of the arguments against
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 5: women's suffrage because uh and you look at they're still
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 5: playing the same card now, right, if you give women
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 5: the vote, you'll only be giving husbands to votes. Okay.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 5: And then Kamala Harris comes out with a campaign ad
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 5: where reassuring women that your husband doesn't need to know
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 5: who you voted for in the privacy of the voting booth.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 5: You can lie to him and say you voted for
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 5: Trump when you really voted for Kamala Harris. And the
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 5: two women look over the voting box thing right, and
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 5: they their eyes meet and they wink at each other,
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 5: and they both mark their ex for Kamala Harris because
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 5: their husbands don't need to know. Right.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 6: Okay, such a color, I know, I know.
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 5: But we're literally, we're literally using the same kind of arguments, right,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 5: that were used against giving women the suffrage in the
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 5: late eighteen hundreds or early early nineteen hundreds. Well, there's
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 5: no secret ballot, so the husband will know how the
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 5: wife votes, so she'll vote according to what her husband wants,
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 5: otherwise he'll beat her when they get home. Okay, so
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 5: we're still using the same fucked up psychology.
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 4: Are you kidding me?
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, women will vote according to their husbands. No, you
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: mean husbands will vote according to their wives.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 5: I know. That's why they wasted all that all those
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 5: all that paper and ink on posters saying, ladies, tell
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 5: your wives to vote this way or that way. Tell
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 5: your husband back in the early nineteen hundreds, right, like
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 5: paper and ink wasn't cheap that back then, right, they
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 5: wouldn't have wasted that money if it wasn't.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 2: Effective, Can I just respond to that that that Kamala
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: Harris ad, what the hell are you even like? This
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: is not how this is not how normal relationships work.
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: Right as far as I can tell, it's not the
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: woman hiding shit from her husband. It's usually the husband
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: hiding stuff from the woman.
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 4: And it's usually.
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 5: He's pretty I want to be browbeaten.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 2: Taking a nap in his car on the way home
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: from work, getting an extra round of I don't know hell,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: divers in secretively behind her back, being able to put
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: to his own interests without her oversight or nagging like
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: this is this is the problem with this is that
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 2: control freakery. According to the CDC, the center of disease
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: control is more of a female female activity, so female
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 2: dominating activity. More women engage in controlling abuse than men.
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: So that's why I said it was stolen valor.
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 5: Well, it's not just according It's not just according to
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 5: the CDC, it's according to to pretty much everything, uh
• 2:04:50
  Speaker 5: the Past Partner Abuse State of Knowledge Project, It's it's
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 5: it's the case according to Maurice Strauss. It's case according
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 5: to like all these O domestic violence researchers out there, right,
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 5: like uh control and coercion, uh monitoring, excessive monitoring, stocker
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 5: ish behavior, snooping in his personal devices and his computer
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 5: and you know, like checking his Internet search history and
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 5: things like that. Right, that's all a female thing. Like,
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 5: it's not all a female thing, but it's predominantly female. Right,
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 5: Wanting to control his his behavior in public, refusing to
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 5: let him wear, refusing to let him wear what he
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 5: wants to an event, right, you know, like all kinds
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 5: of shit like that. Yeah, no, that that's that's extremely
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 5: female dominated. So most men are just like, you.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 2: Know, you don't care, it's not there's not that important.
• 2:05:55
  Speaker 2: I just want to say, this is completely caddy and
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 2: petty and might might indicate that we're we're sort of
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 2: getting into the weeds. But his that those goddamn condescension
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 2: wrinkles are really pissing me off.
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 5: Okay, yeah, I know you have a thing.
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 3: It was like the Hanna cock's mouth and then.
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 5: That Sachi cool mouth.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a because the thing that's pretty much contemptuous.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 6: It's common I've noticed to feminists in general when they
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 6: when they do this stuff, it's it's like.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 3: Oh, by the way, guys, this guy. This guy's not
• 2:06:37
  Speaker 3: a feminist, according I know, I know, I know he is,
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 3: but according to his own he will probably if he
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 3: responds to this, he's gonna point out that he's not,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 3: or at least not in the way that you know
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 3: people typically refer to them. But he says, honest channel,
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 3: let me, let me just just honest channel. It is
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 3: about section says here to talk about masculinity, patriarchy, feminism,
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 3: and how to avoid the toxic anti social behaviors that
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 3: are harming men. And he talks about h he has
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 3: videos like uh that are supposedly, you know, in support
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 3: of men. But his resources or his sources are people
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 3: like Michael Kimmel, So you know, just take.
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 6: Michael Kimmel, by the way, But if all your sources
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 6: are feminists. Is if I take everything I say, all
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 6: right from the New Testament Testament of the Bible, and
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 6: my education comes from going to church every Sunday, and
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 6: everything I say I say in the name of Jesus Christ.
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 6: And then I turn around and say, but I'm not
• 2:07:44
  Speaker 6: a Christian.
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 4: Is anybody gonna believe me?
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 6: Is a single person out there going to be okay? Well,
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 6: she says she's not a Christian, but everything she says
• 2:07:52
  Speaker 6: is based on this religious belief. Sorry but no, and
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 6: that that colors how it applies to everyone else life circumstances,
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 6: and whether or not there are are alternative perspectives, and
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 6: whether or not I have accessed and based my thoughts
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 6: and opinions on all of the available information or only
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 6: some of it. There are some things that religion can solve,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 6: and there are some things that religion can help you solve,
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 6: but not by itself, you know. And and then there
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 6: are some things that are not addressed by religion, and
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 6: his belief in all of this feminist ideology is a
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 6: religious belief. I know a lot of people don't like
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 6: to consider feminism to be the same as a religion.
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 6: I would equate it more in terms of occult than
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 6: an actual religion, because it's not functional the way religion
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 6: can be.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 5: But has an interesting interview out right now, I'll send
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 5: the link.
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's absolutely feminism. Patriarchy theory equates men to
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 6: both God and the devil, and yes, toxic masculinity, so
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 6: called masculinity and so called misogyny, those are men's original sin.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 6: And then at the same time, you know, feminism equates
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 6: women as the protected human class, not that men are
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 6: considered to be human, and so everything that he is
• 2:09:19
  Speaker 6: saying is coming from that perspective, even if he doesn't
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 6: want to be called a feminist. You don't get to
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 6: take everything you say from an ideology and then not
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 6: claim to be following that ideology. If you are following
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 6: something else, then that should be evidenced by the fact
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 6: that everything you say comes from something else, with maybe
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 6: a few exceptions where that ideology provides information that you
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 6: can't get elsewhere, and.
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 2: The belief systems that they're right.
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 6: It's the belief systems. And to call himself the ex
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 6: patriarch right, that is strictly based on feminism's patriarchy theory. Right,
• 2:09:58
  Speaker 6: there is no outside of feminism equivalent of feminism's patriarchy theory.
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 6: There's like, which I keep saying, theory, it's really not.
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 6: It's conjecture.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's I think there's I think there's like
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 5: a definitional uh context, you know that you could use
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 5: in terms of patriarchal societies blah blah blah. You know,
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 5: the father, but they of the household, and.
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 6: They don't really match up to what feminism's patriarchy conjecture
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 6: alleges like nothing else like feminism has that same victim narrative.
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. It's like there's patriarchy
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 5: and then there's all caps the patriarchy tm R right trademark. Yeah,
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 5: and and that's what he's going with here.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 4: Okay, can I.
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 2: Just take get in here because I know that, in fact,
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: I suspect that this this his conversation is going to
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 2: go into a completely different area which will inspire additional
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: conversation from both Hannah and Karen. So I'm thinking that
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 2: we can save this for maybe next week. Yes, I
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 2: got it.
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that sounds good because I might not be able
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 6: next week.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: But we'll we'll put a pin in it, we'll figure
• 2:11:17
  Speaker 2: it out, figure it out, we'll bring bring and I
• 2:11:21
  Speaker 2: haven't had breakfast yet another of I and uh, but
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 2: you know, like we'll we'll we'll continue this. I just know,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: knowing Hannah, knowing Karen, knowing the next topic.
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I get a whole video on the next topic.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 6: So yeah, it's another week.
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 2: So let's let's just let's let's uh, let's say this
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 2: is good. And I just wanted to I and I
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 2: have like stuff I wrote out. I have like three
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 2: pages that I wrote out based on all my comments
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 2: and talking points that I did at in the video
• 2:11:53
  Speaker 2: itself that I haven't even got to. But uh, hopefully
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 2: we'll be able to do that next time. But anyways,
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: so I just want to remind everyone that despite the many, many,
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 2: many concerned wrinkles in his brow, he is not actually
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: lecturing to people who are ignorant of the law and history.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, he can put even more wrinkles, but it
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 2: won't change the fact that all three of us are
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 2: very researched.
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 3: And he can't help. He can't help his wrinkles. We shouldn't.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 4: We're old.
• 2:12:24
  Speaker 6: We can wrinkle if if if we have for yourself, Anna,
• 2:12:31
  Speaker 6: I've been wrinkled for a long time. So do we
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 6: do this to.
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 2: The expression?
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 3: If you're talking about the smug concerned trolling of leftists,
• 2:12:43
  Speaker 3: tell me about it.
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 6: I've seen it, mycals. I can look smuga. I'm looking
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 6: at right now, action going Actually, this is the only
• 2:12:53
  Speaker 6: way I can get stuff on the screen to be.
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 3: In don't you read?
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, despite all of the wrinkles of smugness, And I'm
• 2:13:03
  Speaker 2: not saying I'm not trying to shame as wrinkles. I
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 2: just know why they're there, you know, because there's there's
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of contempt towards our ability to read as women,
• 2:13:13
  Speaker 2: well sorry, as non feminist women, our ability to understand
• 2:13:17
  Speaker 2: law and history, and also our ability to call out this.
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 2: This just imputations of malice where there's no reason to
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: have them. Like the law changes slowly, circumstances change. Sometimes
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 2: the law doesn't address the circumstances for women immediately because
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: the law is a conservative institution. They're yeah, you don't
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 2: have to appeal to male patriarchy. Is the is the
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: god of the of the lag right every time the
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: law lags, that's that's men hating women. No, it's just
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 2: the law being a conservative institution. That's it. You don't
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: have to read malice and do it and in fact, and.
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 5: Every time get everytime it gets progressive, there's like serious
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 5: unintended consequences.
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 6: Yes, it might just be. It might just be that
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 6: government is not the end all, be all solution to
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 6: all things occurring in human civilization. And it might just
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 6: be that every time you try to micromanage human relationships,
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 6: whether it's loving relationships, economic relationships, neighborly relationships or whatever.
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 6: You create those unintended consequences and you cause more problems.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 6: And then feminism comes in and looks at that situation
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 6: and says, men did this on purpose to oppress women.
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing we can. We have the
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: research and the knowledge to push back on that, and
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 2: we did. And that's where my statement comes from. It's
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: a very challenging statement, but we need the space to
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 2: talk about feminist patriarchy not being well. First of all,
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 2: it's not proven because it's not all right, it's just
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 2: not And this entire like going back to eighteen fifty
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 2: and finding a Guardian article written by a feminist lawyer
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 2: about law, you know, like the equivalently, an opinion piece
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 2: by a feminist lawyer, and then presenting it as a fact.
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 2: All right, no, no, sir, don't you know. No, you
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: don't get to do that anyway. So we will continue
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 2: in the next installment of the rant Zerker. Well maybe
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 2: maybe not the next installment, but the installment.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 4: We'll get it.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 2: We'll work it out. So but if you enjoyed this
• 2:15:34
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• 2:15:36
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• 2:15:38
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• 2:15:41
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• 2:15:43
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• 2:15:45
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• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: to do a shout out to Anonymous who put in
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 2: two thousand dollars in the fundraiser.
• 2:15:59
  Speaker 4: Whoo, I know, like, do you think you Anonymous?
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 3: Oh right, here we go.
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: Very much appreciated.
• 2:16:12
  Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, it's awesome.
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 4: Ye it is.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: We are very close to our goal. We want like
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 2: three hundred and uh three hundred and let me just
• 2:16:21
  Speaker 2: double check here that that actually puts the total from
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: Anonymous four thousand for the month.
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 3: Well, assuming it's the same Anonymous.
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, assuming it's the same Anonymous, we can't assume
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 2: that three hundred and eighty five dollars left for the goal.
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 2: I'm probably going to do an additional What I'm going
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: to do is I'm going to do an additional goal
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 2: above that for the true dope tax that I have
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 2: to pay. And then once we get that sorted, I
• 2:16:50
  Speaker 2: want to get a Christmas bonus for Brian.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 3: And thanks Ali and if it works.
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 2: Out, yeah, well no it will, it will. I know
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 2: these guys, they'll they'll pony up for a Christmas bonus
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 2: for you. And if we can get a Christmas bonus,
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 2: we'll also try for Hannah as well. But you know
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do Brian first. Then Oh shit, I
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 2: just created a hierarchy.
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 6: I'm really sorry. Well, actually I kind of created that
• 2:17:17
  Speaker 6: hierarchy when I refused to get paid for what I
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 6: did until after the guys got paid. So yeah, I
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 6: kind of because I am not going to leave my
• 2:17:26
  Speaker 6: primary source of income to do this full time, So
• 2:17:30
  Speaker 6: that's fair to make me last on the list of
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 6: people who get paid.
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: Well I'm first, though, Yeah, so there you go. You
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 2: know I always felt bad about that, but then I'm like, well,
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: this wouldn't exist if.
• 2:17:43
  Speaker 6: I was gonna say I don't want to try doing
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 6: this without you.
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 2: So yeah, no, nobody wants to be woken up at
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: twelve am by the Canadian Revenue Agency about fucking gsd
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 2: oh good lord. Anyway, so uh, feed the Badger dot
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 2: com support if you want to help us out. Three
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 2: hun and eighty five left to go for this goal.
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, back to you, Brian for doing all the
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 2: things to do all the things the remainder of the all.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 3: Right yep on Gabe, right right. Okay, So, if you
• 2:18:16
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• 2:18:24
  Speaker 3: discussed on the show today. There's a link to this
• 2:18:27
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• 2:18:33
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• 2:18:35
  Speaker 3: much for coming on today's episode of The Ran Circer,
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 3: and we will talk to you all in the next video.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 8: Men's right activists are machines, dude. Okay, they are literal machines.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 8: They are talking point machines. They are impossible to fucking
• 2:18:49
  Speaker 8: deal with, especially if you have like especially if you
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 8: have like a couple dudes who have good memory on
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 8: top of that too, Holy shit, you're fucked