Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Strange Death of Mike Mansholt - A Body Without Organs

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The Strange Death of Mike Mansholt - A Body Without Organs · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: In July of twenty sixteen, a seventeen year old boy
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: traveled from Germany to Malta for what was supposed to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: be a simple summer trip. He'd done things like this before.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: He knew how to travel and how to handle himself
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: despite his young age, and for ten days everything went great.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And then on the morning of July eighteenth, as he
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: left his hotel for an afternoon adventure, he was then
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: never heard from again. Now, eventually his remains would be found,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: and though the official explanation of his death was simple,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: everything surrounding this story is anything but, because the lack
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: of provided information and the condition of his remains, including
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: missing organs, tells a very different story than anything on
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: the record. This is the story of the very strange
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: and suspicious death of my Man Schuld.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: and Grim, a true crime podcast.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: The following material more Mai audience listeners.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: After we record the intro, we always stop just for
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: recording purposes and then hit play again or record and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: in between that time, I asked Ben a question about
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: the case because I just have like no chill sometimes
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: and I got the same answer that he always tells
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: me when we're in the middle of the show, And
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: what's that. I'll get into that.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're asking because you're asking questions about the intro already,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: that's the intro. I tell the story.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I know, I know that wasn't great, but I had
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: one diny question.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: You could have answered it, but you're basically like, so,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: how's it ends. No, No, I mean that's not the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: question you were asking, but that's your general attitude.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for the record, Yeah, even when we're not recording,
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: it's I get the same answer. So I just felt
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: like you should all know that.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you're about to hear everything. Let me
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: tell you everything, not just select details that you need
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to know before it starts.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: Fine, fine, I'll just sit back and listen like everybody else.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Just sit back, listen and chill and enjoy the vibes,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: the atmosphere and the great perks you can get over
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: on Patreon by signing up like these amazing people have
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Vicky Sheldrake, Vanessa van Dam and of course Kai, who
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: we actually didn't get to a shout out a couple
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: of weeks ago, so sorry about that. But you're definitely
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: on the list now, and we appreciate the heck out
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: of all three of you and anyone who listens signs
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: up and all that good stuff.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: We sure do.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Do you like that segue? Yeah? Did you see it coming?
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I did?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Actually awed down?
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I did that one. I did.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: I thought it was really good.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Someone had commented recently that they miss hearing the sound
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: of the dogs, and Ripley just kinda did a weird
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: gag sound. So I don't know if anyone heard that.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: It was there, but it wasn't a cute, no dogs sound.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: It was like howking up her soul? Most that's what
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: it sounded like.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: If I'm being honest, She actually does that quite a bit.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: It's kind of odd.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Gotta love dogs. What would life be without dogs? In
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: my opinion, I don't know if I could ever live
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: a life without dogs.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Oh No, They honestly make this world. I was gonna
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: say bearable. The world's bearable, but they make.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: It so much better.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's brighter, it needs to be warmer than that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: It makes it wholesome.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all of those things, just like it makes the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: world spin. Really, I don't know.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: It's like sniffing the reason to rush spring flower. Right. Yeah,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: you go for a walk in the early morning, and
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the dew settled on the grass, and as your feet
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: shuffled through, you're getting that little bit soaked through, and
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: your toes are starting to get a little bit cold
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: from it. And as you look over as the sun's rising,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: you take a bit of a deep breath for that
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: cool air, and you see a single little flower there
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: and you walk up to it. You bend down and
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: you give a bit of a sniff, just a bit
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: of pall, and get stuck to the tip of your nose.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: But that inhale of it all makes you feel so nice.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: That's what it's like having a dog.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, how was that? Oh that's pretty good. Actually,
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: thank you, well done.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that. But I don't think you guys are
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: here to listen to me tell stories about sniffing flowers randomly.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: You're here to listen to the story about Mike Manchult.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Have you heard anything about this one before?
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: No? And you know I already have questions, So let's
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: dive right in.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I'd say touche. Okay, Before we get started, I do
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: want to preface this. This is a mystery case, and
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: there's even questions of if this is a crime case
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: at all. So there is a lot of questions. At
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: the very end of this, we're probably going to need
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to do a bit of discussing and it's up to you,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: guys to really make your decision on what you think
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: happened with this story. So with that being said, are
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: you ready?
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, So we got to really listen closely to all
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: the details.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: It's not necessarily listen closely because even some of the
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: details are muddled and it's hard to understand. But it's
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: up to you to frame your opinion in a way
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: that would give us a conclusion. Do you think there
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: was a murder here? Do you think there's something suspicious here?
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Do you think there is something possibly otherworldly here? That's
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: the question?
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'm ready?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, Mike Manchult's life was going great. It
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: was steady, active and full of proper direction. He was
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: born on August twentieth, nineteen ninety eight, in Oldenburg, Germany,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: a city in the northwest of the country. He came
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: from a family that had given him a very stable upbringing,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: even though his parents had separated when he was still
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: quite young, and over time they both built new lives
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: and new families together. So which is a really good thing.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: You hear a lot of situations where divorces can do
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of negative for families, and in this case,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: it seemed like they did their best to ensure that
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: didn't happen.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, I mean we had that example with
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: the last case, right for sure.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Now, Mike remained close to the people around him. He
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: had siblings on both sides of his family, including Maria
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and Daniel, and according to those who knew him, he
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: got along with both of them extremely well. He'd always
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: wanted siblings, in fact, and having them in his life
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: mattered a lot to him. Now what stands out a
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: lot in the accounts about Mike is how often the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: same kind of words come up. He was described as calm, polite,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: kind and responsible across the board almost and he clearly
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: wasn't someone who liked to sit for very long. He
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: was adventurous in the way that seemed genuine and natural,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: and he genuinely liked being active. Now, he also liked
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: movement and challenge and being out in the world, and
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: to go with it, it's no surprise to say that
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: he was very into sports, especially things that pushed him physically.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Things like climbing and mountain biking were among his favorite activities,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: and he also enjoyed things like skating and gymnastics and
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: diving as well. Travel was another major part of his life,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: and that had a lot to do with his father. Now,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Mike's father was Burnt. It's a German name. It's a
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: little difficult for me to say, but Burnt is how
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I've landed on saying this, so don't judge me. Now.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: He was a goldsmith, but he was also someone with
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a very strong love for travel and outdoors. He became
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: a huge part of Mike's life at the very early age,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: and the two of them spent a lot of time together,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: and much of that time was built around adventure. Now,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Mike was lucky enough that he didn't grow up sheltered
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: from the world. Instead, he grew up seeing it. He
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: traveled to places like Iceland, Scotland, and the Caribbean, and
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: he'd even been sailing on trips that most adults would
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: never attempt. One source even described him crossing the Atlantic
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: in a sailboat, which is something that says a lot
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: about the sort of experiences he had before he was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: even out of his teens. No kidding now. By twenty fifteen,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: when he was only sixteen years old, Burnt said that
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the two of them could go canoeing in the Yukon,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and so they did. They headed up to Canada, Canada,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and to the Yukon River, and they went up there
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: panning for gold in Dawson City. These were definitely not
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: ordinary family vacations. They were the kind of trips that
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: built confidence, independence, and the sense that unfamiliar places were
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: there to be explored. That background matters a lot in
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: this story because it helps explain why nobody in Mike's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: family thought it was strange that he was going to
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: go travel alone. He wasn't just some reckless kid being
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: thrown into the deep end. By seventeen, Mike had seen
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: a lot of the world already, was used to navigating
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: places and used to adventure, and he was used to
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: looking after himself. And so his family believed he could
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: handle it because from their point of view, he already had,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: and honestly, by all accounts, why should they not be
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: right now? He was also seeming to do really well
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: at home too. He'd graduated at the top of his class,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: and he'd begun an apprenticeship with Airbus and Bremen, which
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is something that gives a very clear picture of where
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: his life was heading to. He wasn't drifting and focusing
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: solely on adventure and life experiences. He had a structure,
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: There were plans, and he was working towards something. There
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: are a lot of accounts too that say he had
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: an interest in aviation, which was definitely tied to hobbies
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: he shared with his father, including flying remote controlled planes.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: But whether that was simply just going to be a
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: hobby or there was an ambition for a career behind
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: it or something, it's not clear, but either way it
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: still fits that larger picture of who he was. Curious,
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: hands on and drawn to things that required focus and skill.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: He was smart. It wasn't just ambition. He could back
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: it up.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, so you have already answered my question that I had. Yes,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: I have, and I get why it wasn't really a
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: simple answer to it, because I was kind of like, oh,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: my goodness, he's just out and about at seventeen, like
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: that seems so young. But when you talk about his
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: life so far and stuff, it makes sense that he's
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: probably like maybe just graduated high school ish or something, Yeah,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: and then going on a little adventure, and it's not
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: really a huge deal because he's kind of grown up
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: with those adventures exactly.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: He's grown up in this atmosphere, this environment. He's done
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: this before. I'm sure he might have traveled with his
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: parents before, but I guarantee you there's been days where
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: he's off doing something on his own for the afternoon
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, he's very well capable of handling himself,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: even though he's only seventeen years old.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: No, exactly.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Now, All in all, Mike was a great worldly kid.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: He had friends, he had family that he stayed close to.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: He was active, busy, and by all a period says,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: looking ahead in his life and not pulling away from
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: it at all. He even had a girlfriend, so by
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the time he left for his trip to Malta in
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: July of twenty sixteen, he seemed like a teenager stepping
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: into adulthood with a growing sense of independence. That's part
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: of what makes this case a little difficult to cover. Actually, see,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: when Mike arrived in Malta, he wasn't entering some chaotic
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: or uncertain chapter in his life. He was very grounded,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and he was doing something that made sense for him,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: not only for him, but other people looking into him.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And it made sense looking at it from the outside. Traveling, exploring,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: taking on a little more independence. Those things fit him,
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: and in that way, the trip didn't feel out of
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: character at all. It felt exactly the kind of thing
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: that Mike would do now. Mike arrived in Malta on
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: July eighth, twenty sixteen, like most people visiting the island
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: in the middle of summer. He stepped into a place
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: that was busy, warm, and had a lot of different
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: types of people coming and going. They were exploring and
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: spending their day outside. Specifically, he was staying in Selemma,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: which is a coastal town on the eastern side of
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: the island. It's a pretty commonplace for visitors to stay,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: with hotels, waterfront views and a lot of easy access
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to the rest of Malta, and so when he arrived,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: Mike checked in to the Astra hotel, where he would
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: be based out of for the duration of his trip. Now,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: when he arrived there at the start, he wasn't alone.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: He had gone to Malta in part to spend time
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: with his girlfriend, who was also visiting the island, so
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: he had her there with him for several days. Things
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: followed the normal rhythm as they spent time together, moving
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: around the island and treating the trip exactly it was
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: as it was meant to be. You know, it's a break,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: it's a chance to enjoy being somewhere different. And some
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: point during the stay, his girlfriend left Malta and returned
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: home to Germany, and that left Mike and his own
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: for the remainder of his stay. And from everything known
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: about him, this wasn't a problem. He had plenty of
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: travel experience and he was comfortable traveling alone. If anything,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: it fit exactly what we know of him. So over
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the next few days, Mike stayed in the hotel in
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Solemma and continue doing his own thing. He kept in
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: regular contact with his family, and nothing about those interactions
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: suggested that anything was wrong at all. There were no
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: warning signs or sudden changes in behavior, nothing unusual. By
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: mid July, he had settled into a routine of exploring
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: the island at his own pace. Malta is small enough
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: that you can move across it fairly easily, but it
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: still offers quite a bit to see. There's coastal routes,
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: historic sites, and a lot of areas that attract people
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: looking for something to be more active, and for someone
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: like Mike, that would make sense that he's going to
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: start looking to cover ground in other ways and being
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: more active, and that's where things began to shift. Towards
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: the end of his stay, Mike made plans to explore
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: more of the island in his own terms and not
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: the usual tourist type methods, and by the morning of
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: July eighteenth, that's exactly what he set out to do.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Mike had been in Malta for about ten days at
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: that point, and at eight thirty nine am, hotel surveillance
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: footage shows Mike leaving his room at the Astro Hotel
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: in Slimma, and at that point it's not clear exactly
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: what he was doing, whether he was heading out briefly
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: or just stepping out to take care of something, but
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: it wasn't his final departure. Let's say, a short time later,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: at nine ten am, he returned and interacted with the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: hotel reception. During that visit, he settled his bill, which
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: was common for guests to handle payments ahead of time,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: especially if they are expected to be out for most
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: of the day. Then, at around nine fifty five am,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Mike left the hotel once again, and this would be
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: the last confirmed sighting of him. Security footage from that
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: moment shows him heading out to prepare for the day.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: He was wearing a blue T shirt and a backpack
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: on his back. With him, he had his cell phone
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: and GoPro camera, which was something he carried quite frequently now.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Sometime after leaving the hotel, Mike rented a blue and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: black Lombardo mountain bike. He was known to enjoy mountain biking,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: and Malta's terrain, especially outside the main urban areas, was
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a no brainer choice as it offered plenty roots and
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a lot of appeal for someone who didn't want to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: just go walking the tourist areas. Then at ten eleven am,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: Mike sent a voice message to his father, which was
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the last confirmed communication that he ever made. In the message,
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: he sounded completely normal. He was calm, even upbeat. He
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: was talking about the roads being steep, and he described
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the ride as kind of a challenge. At one point,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: he even mentioned that he was going to send a
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: photo later, but of course, he never did. Phone records
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: show that his last known activity online was shortly after
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the message that he sent to his father at around
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: ten eighteen am. After that moment, there were no more messages,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: no calls, and no further digital trace After that. His
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: phone simply went quiet. Now, at the time, this silence
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: didn't raise any sort of concern. His family knew that
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: there was nothing unusual about not hearing from him for
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: a while. Mike was on vacation, after all, moving around
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: the island on his own, and it wasn't out of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: character for him to spend long stretches of time offline,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: especially if he's enjoying mountain biking or exploring. He'd done
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: similar things before and there was no reason for anyone
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: to assume anything else. And by the next day, July nineteenth,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it passed still with no contact, and it was around
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: this point that the first instance of something strange really
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: popped up, though even it didn't suggest anything urgent, but
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: it was something. See, the mountain bike Mike had rented
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: the previous morning had not been returned yet, and according
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to the rental agreement, it should have been brought right back,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't. There still that alone didn't raise alarms.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: People returned rentals late all the time, Plans change and
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: could have meant something as simple as him deciding to
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: keep the bike for another day or losing track of time.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: There's a plethora of reasons. But then another day passed,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and then another. There were still no messages to his family,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: or no update, or no indication that he had checked
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: in anywhere else. His phone remained unreachable to anyone trying
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: to call him. They just had unanswered calls, no texts
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: being returned, nothing, And what initially seemed like a normal
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: gap in communication was slowly becoming something that was significantly
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: more worrisome. Then came July twenty second, twenty sixteen. See,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that was the day that Mike was scheduled to return home.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: His family had gone to the airports in Bremen and
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: they were there ready to meet him, And like any arrival,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: they waited, expecting to see him come through the gates
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: with the rest of the passengers, maybe tired from travel
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: or something, but otherwise fine, happy to be home and
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: ready to tell the stories. And so they waited as
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: people began to file out from the flight. But when
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the last person walked through the gate doors of that airport.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Mike wasn't among any of them. The airline staff were
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: quickly contacted to see if he had boarded any of
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: his other flights, maybe missing a connecting one or something,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: and it was confirmed that Mike had never boarded any
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: That was the moment the situation shifted completely. Up until then,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: there could have been explanations, something, something reasonable could have
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: been said to explain away these blanks in communication or
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: where he was anything. Maybe he got hungover and he's
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: just sleeping in, you know, any sort of reason. But
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: missing a flight home without telling anyone, especially after several
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: days without contact, that was different.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a lot of things are a
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: little bit out of character, right, Like even the bike
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: return was probably out of character for him, definitely, But
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: like you said, it's things that can be explained away
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: a little bit. But him just not home on his
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: flight that is a real red flag.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so this isn't something that fits how Mike behaves
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: at all. So without any delay, the family reported him missing,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: and what they didn't know was at that very moment
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: authorities in Malta had already begun looking for him. The
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: unreturned bike had raised a lot of concern locally, and
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: by the time his family sounded the alarm in Germany,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: there was already early efforts underway to see if they
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: could figure out where he had gone. But now as
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: this official report came in, that's when the search expanded.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Maltese police began coordinating efforts across the island, working with
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Mike's last known movements and trying to trace where he
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: had gone. His hotel stay was reviewed, and the timeline
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: from the morning of July eighteenth, when he was last
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: seen at leaving the Astral Hotel in Selimma. It became
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the starting point, and from there investigators tried to piece
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: together whether he might have gone somewhere else after returning
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the bike or sending that final message to his family.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: German authorities were also brought into the investigation too, given
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: that Mike was a German citizen. Agencies in Germany began
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: working along side Maltese officials, sharing information and helping coordinate
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the search. Now, at this stage, there was still no
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: clear indication of what had happened, only that a seventeen
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: year old had gone missing while traveling alone. Search teams
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: soon started covering not just the immediate areas surroundings Lemma,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: but also larger portions of the island too. Malta is mentioned,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: as I mentioned, relatively small, but it has a mix
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of urban areas, coastlines, and a lot more remote terrain too,
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: particularly along the western side. Places like Gozo, the neighboring island,
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: were also considered, with authorities checking ferry routes and passenger
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: records to determine whether Mike could have left the main island.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Airports and transportation hubs were monitored to passenger lists were
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: reviewed in Casey had taken an earlier different flight, and
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: no matches were found. There was zero indication that he
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: had left Malta at all, so as the days passed
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: the search grew more urgent. There were no confirmed sightings
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: or any credible tips that led anywhere. It seemed like
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the longer the search went on, the fewer simple explanations
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: were left over. For Mike's family, the uncertainty of everything
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: was the hardest part. Everything was unknown. They even traveled
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: to Malta themselves, joining the search efforts on the ground
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: to try and help find Mike. They retraced what they
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: thought his steps could have been. They spoke to people
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and waited for any kind of development, but there were
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: still no clear answers, only a timeline that stopped abruptly
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: on the morning of July eighteenth, and a growing sense
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: that something had gone wrong somewhere in the hours that followed.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: The search continued like that for several days, moving forward
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: without any clear direction. That is until July twenty sixth,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, at around ten am, a search team operating
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: in the western part of Malta made a discovery near
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the Dingley Cliffs, the highest point on the island. The
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: area is known for its steep limestone edges and open
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: terrain overlooking the sea below and near the Magdalene Chapel,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: a small structure that sits close to the cliff side.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Investigators were searching the area as it was where Mike
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: was assumed to be headed, and there they found Mike.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: He was dead. His body was located below the cliff's
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: edge in a rock depression, which is a kind of
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: natural hollow in the terrain. It wasn't immediately visible from above,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: which helped explain why he hadn't been found sooner. Despite
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: the ongoing search efforts in the area nearby. Several other
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: details were noted too. The missing mountain bike, the one
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that he had rented for the short distance or whatever.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: It was found not too far above him in the cliff,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: caught in a bush along the slope. It wasn't lying
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: directly beside him, but instead positioned higher ups, separated from
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: where his body was laying, and a little farther down.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Investigators also found sunglasses and shoes scattered in the area
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: surrounding him. At that point, the search effort officially came
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: to an end. Mike Manchult, who had been seen leaving
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: his hotel that morning on July eighteenth, had been found
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: eight days later at the base of Dingley Cliffs. Now,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: these cliffs are steep and uneven. They have very sharp
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: drop offs and a lot of rough terrain. It was
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a place where an accident could happen very easily, especially
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: to someone moving along the edge on a bicycle. Early
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: on in the investigation, the working assumption was that Mike
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: had fallen from these cliffs, resulting in his death, and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: according to accounts from the scene, there were initial statements
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: suggesting that he had suffered serious injuries consistent with such
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: a fall. At one point, his father was even told
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: rather informally, mind you, but he was told that Mike's
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: back appeared to have been badly broken, which seemed to
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: support the idea that Mike had gone over the edge
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: and died as a result of that fall.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Gosh, this is just devastating.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Though. Now from there the idea seemed to be very straightforward.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Mike had likely been cycling along or near the cliff side,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: lost control or misjudged the terrain and fallen going over
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the cliff, and given the height of the landscape, it
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: seemed like an unfortunate outcome, and it provided a bit
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: of clarity. It was a tragic accident, that's what it seemed.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: But even in those early stages, those explanations didn't quite
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: feel complete.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just have a really good question though. So
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: this spot where he was mountain biking is generally a
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: spot where people are mountain bike, and that's where he said,
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: he like, what's going to be I don't know if.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: It's a mountain bike area, no, but it's like a
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: likely a trail headed up to this this chapel and
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: there's views and stuff. So he was mountain biking in
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: that vicinity Okay, I'm not saying he's going and like, oh,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to go mountain bike, find a cool
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: place and go shred some terrain. He was likely just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: cycling off road up to see some views and sits okay,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: strictly using the bike as transportation.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I see. So okay. So it's not necessarily like a
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: you know, a really hardcore mountain biking area or anything.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: It's just okay, No, it's not like something where people
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: go to do downhill crashes and like to do a
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: bunch of jumps and double backflips and mctwists or just
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: throwing random names out there. But you get the idea.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: He's not going to do a giant tail whip off
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: the cliff and see if he can land it. That's
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: not the point of this.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: He's literally just riding up to go see this chapel exactly.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Now. As details of the scene were examined more closely,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: some parts of this explanation of him, you know, accidentally
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: going off the cliff started to feel less certain. You see.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: As investigators continued and those close to Mike began to
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: look more closely at the scene, small details started to
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: stand out to them. Individually, none of them really pointed
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: towards any sort of conclusion, but taken together, they made
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: the original explanation of a fall a lot less certain.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: One of the things that was noted first was the
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: condition of the bicycle. Now this is something that can
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: be argue easily both ways, mind you, but the bike
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: Mike was riding, the one he had rented. It was
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: found above his body, caught in a bush along the slopes,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: and when it was examined it showed only minor damage
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: a rear puncture to the tire in a slightly misaligned
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: seat from a fall of that height. The condition of
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the bike raised a lot of questions. It wasn't something
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: that someone would expect from, you know, a rider and
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: the bike going over the edge. Both should probably have
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: sustained damage, not just you know, Mike. The bike was
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: almost superficial damage. A lot of times in a crash,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: especially if someone crashes on a bike, those handlebars they turned,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: they twist, They're one of the first things to move.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: But it seemed like they were intact.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: But it did the bush. It landing in the bush
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: could have like really saved damage to it.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Though potentially exactly like I said, it could be argued
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: either way, but it's kind of along with everything. That's
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: when it kind of raises a bit more red flag. Now,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: there was a positioning of everything at the scene too,
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: not just the bike. Mike's body was located on a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: rock in the depression below, while his bike was higher up,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and his shoes and sunglasses were found, and yet another
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: position nearby, which people say is a bit odd, but
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: in a fall, things do scatter. However, here's to the kicker.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Though a lot of Mike's other things, his belongings, his backpack,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: they were missing. They were gone. The backpack he had
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: been seen carrying when he left the hotel on July eighteenth,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: was not found at the scene. Inside it, according to
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: his family, were his mobile phone, his GoPro camera, and
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: other personal items, including money and personal documents. Yet none
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: of those things were recovered during the search. So if
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Mike had fallen accidentally while biking, it raised the question
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: of why those items weren't nearby. Why was the backpack
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: not on his back. Other early explanations were that maybe
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: he left the bag somewhere before we each in the cliffs.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Another possibility suggests that you know the belongings could have
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: been taken either before or after he died.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking someone might have just like taken
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: it without even knowing that he or they just found
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: the bag or something and didn't know there was like
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: a deceased person, or maybe they even did know and
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: they're just like, I'm going to just steal this and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: not report this.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Possibly, now Again, it's when you put everything together
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: that things start to be concerning. Each thing can be
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: explained away with an incident on its own. But yes,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: when they all line up, it looks almost.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Like it's too much exactly.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: And at the stage these are very much so possibilities
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: that these are the situations. And as the days went on,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the questions surrounding the scene, it didn't go away. Instead,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: they were joined by something else, conflicting information. Not just
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: the fact that there's a couple missing things or questions
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: we have, there's information that is conflicting themselves. So early on,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: the explanation given to Mike's family seemed fairly clean. The
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: comments suggesting his injuries were consistent with a fall, and
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: at one point, as I mentioned, his father was told
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: that Mike's back appeared to have been badly broken, which
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: reinforced that idea of the fall of the cliff. But
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: that version of events didn't hold up when his father
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: later saw his body, and as more information became available,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: a very different picture began to emerge. See, he was
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: initially told that his son's back was broken, that Mike
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: died when over the cliff, his back was badly broken. However,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: now he's looking at his son's body and he cannot
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: see a badly broken back. And in fact, he was
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: told that no fractures were found in Mike's body upon examination.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: What the So no broken ribs, no cracked skull, no
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: broken back or spine, no broken bones.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Holy okay, because with just listening to that, like a
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: fall offside a cliff, you think the body would be
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: very like quite rough shape one.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Hundred percent, especially considering if you're saying that fall caused
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: his day. Yeah, he's going to have fractures if he
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: fell off that cliff and died. Yeah, you know, crackskull,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: smashed head, whatever, no broken bones. That is huge and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: it goes directly against what was said earlier.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: I can only imagine just how confused this the dad
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: would be. Like, I think you'd just be so taken.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Aback, like, what the exactly now? This raised, of course,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: a massive question because if there's no clear signs of
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: a fall, what exactly caused his death? Now? The initial
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: post mortem examination of his remains was carried out in Malta,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: and both it and the later examination in Germany would
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: struggle to pinpoint a clear cause of death. Reports about
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: injuries did not align cleanly with the original explanation. The
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: idea of a fatal fall was still present, but it
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was no longer supported in a straightforward way by the
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: physical findings. At the same time, other inconsistencies started to
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: show themselves too. When Mike's body returned to Germany, what
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: was expected to bring clarity instead raised even more questions
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: because one of the first issues identified was that the
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: body had not been properly embalmed while in Malta, despite
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: documentation saying that it had been. This was a very
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: significant problem because without proper preservation, decomposition had progressed much
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: further than it normally would have been by the time
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: the second optopsy was performed. That alone limited what examiners
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: could determine, but it wasn't the only issue. There were
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: more there were also reports about the condition and weight
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of his body that stood out. According to accounts from
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: those involved in the examination, Mike's body was described as
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: being massively unusually light, with some reports giving a weight
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: far below than what would have been expected, often around
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: either sixteen or roughly thirteen kilograms depending on the report
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: you can, which converts to roughly thirty five or sixty
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: five pounds. That's how much Mike's remains weighed. Now, this
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: detail was never clearly explained, and it became another point
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: of concern for those trying to understand what really had happened.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: Now during the German examination of his remains, there was
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: also some interesting reports regarding Mike's internal organs. Now, there
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: are some conflicting reports on this, and I'm going to
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: go over as much detail as i can, but it
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: seemed that many of Mike's organs were missing from his body,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: including his brain being completely missing from his skull. The
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: organs that were missing included his brain, heart, lungs, liver, pancreas, intestines,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: and even others. Yes, they were.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Gone, okay, which is I'm assuming not normal. No, the
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: family was expecting that everything was coming home.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay. However, a couple sources say that the organs
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: had been present when the body was first recovered in Malta.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: But if that was the case, where were they now?
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: Huh okay? I feel like something went astray then with
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: this first autopsy, Like what were they doing with this stuff?
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: But that's not the thing though, because there's official explanations
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: that go directly against the autopsy removing them. Several possibilities
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: were offered in order to try and explain this away,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: and with one suggestion stating that it was advanced decomposition
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: that caused this. Combined with the lack of embalming, it
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: basically significantly altered the condition of his body and it
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: made parts of it very difficult or impossible to properly examine.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: One report stated that the decomp would have literally liquefied
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: his brain and it would have likely drained out from
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: his remains, leaving a hollow skull. Still, there was no
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: documentation of the organs being removed during the autopsy in Malta.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: They should have been.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: There, Yeah, And I also feel it hasn't been that
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: long that the body would just like liquify like that exactly.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: That seems hard to understand now.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Another explanation pointed towards animal activity, with claims that rodents
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: may have been affecting the remains. However, this was questioned
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: as there were no reports indicating any sort of physical
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: signs such as clear bitemarks or anything like that. These
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: explanations did not fully align with each other at all,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and none were universally accepted. As a result, what should
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: have been a critical stage in determining how Mike died
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: instead became another source of confusion. The condition of the body,
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: combined with the inconsistencies and how that condition was described,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: meant the key forensic questions could no longer be answered
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: with any sort of confidence, and statements may to the family,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: like the broken back, didn't seem to match what it
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: appeared later on in reports, Details that it initially seemed certain,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: were all of a sudden less clear. Information was either incomplete, delayed,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: or presented very differently dependent on when and how it
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: was received. Now, none of this provided a new answer. Instead,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: it made the situation so much more convoluted.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: M M. It almost seems like something is trying to
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: be hidden.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Exactly but what so yeah, okay, exactly, but what that's
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: the question. Now. One of the most important missing pieces
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: was the go pro camera, the one that Mike had
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: been carrying when he left the hotel in the morning
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: of July eighteenth. According to his family and based on
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the footage from the hotel, the camera had been with
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: him when he had headed out for the day. For
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: someone like Mike who often recorded his activities, it wasn't
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: just another item in his possession because this had the
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: potential to show exact actly where he'd gone and what
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: he had done in the hours before death his death,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: it could literally tell the story of what had happened. Now,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: at one point, his father had actually been told the
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: camera had been found at the scene. That information didn't
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: hold up. After a delay, the item was eventually returned
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: to the family. However, it wasn't Mike's GoPro at all.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: It was an older Canon camera, which was something that
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: didn't even belong to Mike. So authority said that they
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: have his go pro camera, and eventually they returned it
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to the family. But it wasn't even his camera at all.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Wasn't even a go pro okay, So again it seems
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: like something's being hidden here. Could it have been a mistake,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: a miscommunication, sure, but it doesn't seem likely. There was
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: no documentation of this canon camera being found at the scene,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: So why is it all of a sudden in the picture?
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: Well, on, how many miscommunications can you have right before
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: it just starts seeming super shady exactly.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: That's the point of the story, is not everything on
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: its own stands up to be something suspicious. It can
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: be explained away, right, Oh yeah, they got the camera confused, Sure, okay,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: but why did they get the camera confused? Why are
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: his organs missing? Why was it not documented? Why was
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: he not embalmed? Why everything? That's when it makes no sense.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, because initially too, like the backpack was just missing,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: right yeah, Which so it's like, I mean, I guess
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: they could have just left it at that, But now
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden they did have the go pro,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: but it's actually not his go pro and what the shit?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: There you go. So the question surrounding this case, when
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: you stack them all up side by side, it seems
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: like there's a pattern of inconsistencies on purpose.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Because and how difficult, because you imagine like losing a
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: child and you're grieving this, right, and then all this
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: shit is happening when you're trying to like logically make
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: sense of what happened in your mind and none of
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: it's lining up. But you're also in like this terrible
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: season of grief, and I don't know, I just couldn't
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: even imagine what the fuck that would do to your mind.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: No kidding, You're right, yeah, it would be difficult to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: say that easy terms. But now, as the search and
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: investigation continued, it became clear that Mike's backpack, including his phone,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: power bank, GoPro, cash ID all that were just still missing.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: None of those items were recovered, and no confirmed location
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: of the backpack was ever established was never found. At
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: the same time, though, there was also questions about what
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: had been documented at the scene. If things were this wrong,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: then what had really gone down to the scene? Did
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: they get it right? The information provided to the family
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: was unfortunately very limited. Reports lacked a lot of details,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: and some expected materials such as full photographic documentation of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the site, were either missing or not shared, and when
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: records were eventually provided, they didn't always include the level
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: of detail that might have helped clarity when they finally
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: did get released.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Because this is twenty sixteen, so you would imagine that
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: there would be full photos and stuff of everything right
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: that they came upon.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: There should definitely be processes and procedures. Sure, you might
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: say it's not North America, You're in malta smaller area
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: and stuff. Sure, all those arguments are very valid. However,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: I'm sure the investigation team has knowledge of take crime
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: scene photos, you know. Now. All in all, this wasn't
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: just the cause of death that was unclear. It was
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: the key pieces of information with items, records, and potential
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: crucial evidence that were either missing, being inconsistent, or never
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: fully accounted for. It was all frustrating and confusing, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: as time went on it became harder to determine whether
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: any of those gaps could ever be filled. By the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: time both of the post mortem examinations were completed, the
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: case had reached a point where there were two different
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: interpretations of what might have happened, and neither of them
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: were fully conclusive. On the Malti side, the official position
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: remained relatively consistent. They were saying that the investigation and
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: the official injury concluded that Mike's death was likely the
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: result of a fall or natural causes, and that there
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: was no reason for any sort of bias to treat
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: the case as a homicide, which I.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: Just want to say to Maybe that made them not
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: even take photos because it's like it's an accident in
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: their opinion.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: Maybe then why don't you say that?
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Why you say, well, we don't take photos of an accident. Cool. Yeah,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: And even still, you shouldn't automatically assume it's an accident.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: You need to treat the scene properly and then follow
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: the evidence to find out. You know what. Yeah, the
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: autopsy shows it was in fact a cause of a fault,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: but the autopsy showed otherwise. Now from that perspective, the
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: location where he was found, in general circumstances surrounding his disappearance,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: all this still supported the idea of an accident the
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: eyes of Maltese, even if not every detail could clearly
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: be explained. In practical terms. What this meant was that
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: the case was considered closed. However, when German authorities reviewed
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: the situation, their position was a lot more cautious. The
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: second autopsy carried out in Germany did not identify a
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: clear cause of death, and because of the condition of
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the body, certain types of injuries could not be confirmed
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: or ruled out with any sort of certainty. While German
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: investigators did not conclude that a crime had taken place,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: they also stated they could not exclude the possibility of
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: a third party involvement either, and that distinction is huge.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: It meant that while one side was satisfied with the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: general explanation, the other was left with open questions that
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: could not be resolved as there is no definitive evidence
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: of a fall, but there is also, unfortunately no definitive
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: evidence pointing to anything else, So both conclusions exist at
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the same time time, and for Mike's family, the gap
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: between the two interpretations became central to the story. The
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: idea that the cause of Mike's death was unknown and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: that the available explanations did not fully line up, with
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: no clear way to bridge the difference between the Maltese
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and German perspective was difficult, to say the least, but unfortunately,
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: at that point the investigation had simply reached its limits.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: But even after the official conclusions were reached, the case
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: did not fully come to an end, at least not
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: for Mike's family. For his father, Burnt Matchell, the unanswered
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: questions still remained far too significant. To just leave alone.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Over time, he continued to look at the case on
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: his own terms, returning to Malta multiple times in an
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: effort to understand what had happened in the hours after
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: July eighteenth. During those visits, he retraced parts of Mike's
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: last known movements, revisited the area during or near the
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Dingley Cliffs, and he attempted to speak to anyone who
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: might have seen something or anything. Now. At some point
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: he was allegedly contacted by a potential witness who described
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: an incident that, in his view, could be relevant to
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: the case, and the details of that account, unfortunately have
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: not been publicly shared, but it was enough for him
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: to believe that there may have been more to what
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: had happened that day than what we know now. He
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: no longer believes that Mike was alone when he died. Instead,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: he came to the conclusion that at least one other
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: person must have been present, based on the circumstances and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: inconsistencies that he had encountered. Now, this wasn't something that
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: had been confirmed by investigators, but it was a belief
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: that he had held very firmly and has continued to
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: look for answers after the fact. Now, alongside his own efforts,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: there were also attempts to reopen the case through legal
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: channels too. German prosecutors became involved too and pushed further
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: for investigation and steps were taken and to pursue European
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Investigation Order or EIO, which is a legal mechanism that
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: allows authorities in one europe European country to request investigation
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: and actions in another, and if approved, it could require
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: multice authorities to carry out additional inquiries or revisit aspects
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: of the case. And this process marked a shift from
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: informal efforts to something a lot more structured than it
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: originally had been. Although it was revisited and formally reopened
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, the progress remained limited. Requests to reconsider
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: earlier findings were made more than once, but the outcome
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: didn't change. The original conclusion continued to stand and the
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: case was not substantially reopened in a way that led
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: to any sort of new answers. Now. Over the years,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Burnt continued to speak publicly about the case, outlining the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: inconsistencies he believed had not been addressed properly. His focus
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: remained on the same core questions, what happened on that
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: day of July eighteenth, whether anyone else had been involved
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: or not, and why key aspects of the investigation had
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: been handled the way that they were. In the years
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: that followed, the case remains largely unchanged in any sort
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: of official sense, and by the time everything has been
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: reviewed and re examined and brought to a close, one
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: thing remained the same. There was no clear answer about
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: this case. That's the only for sure thing we know.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: There's no clear answer. Mike Manchell had arrived in Malta
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: on July eighth, twenty sixteen, and for what was supposed
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to be a normal trip it was going to be
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: a vacation. Then ten days later, on the morning of
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: July eighteenth, he left his hotel on a rented bike,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: sent a final message home, and disappeared forever. Eight days later,
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: his body was found at the base of Dingley Cliff,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: and from there the case followed a path that never
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: fully settled. There was a conclusion, a strange explanation or two,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: and faults in handling practices, and in the end there
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: was no single account that explained everything. The official position
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: remains that there was no evidence of a crime, and
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: what happened to Mike in the morning of July eighteenth
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: was never clearly established, and without that, the case does
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: not have an end with a resolution. Instead, it ends
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: with the absence of one. And that's the story of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Mike menchellh So officially, according to Maltice, it was an accident.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, and that's that.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: See. My initial thought after listening to that is that
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: I do kind of think it was an accident and
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: then there was just some serious neglect on their end
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: for the investigation, I guess, or communication as well.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: But it's not just one situation of serious neglect. It
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: is so much his organs are missing. Why are his
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: organs missing?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's pretty eft up. But I'm yeah, because okay,
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: because here I'm at first I was like, okay, well
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: maybe they donated them or something, but no, they couldn't
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: have because he was missing for so long. They would
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: not be organs that you could use. No, definitely, not
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: what on earth would they want with them exactly.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Now, the official explanations are between you know, decomposition with
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: all the heat and animal activity. However, decomposition is not
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: going to make sure that your lungs, your heart, your
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: intestines are gone, Yeah, they were gone. And animal activity
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: you would need presence of animals chewing into the body,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: getting into the body, chewing other aspects, but there wasn't.
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: You would see a lot of that.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: If animals, you can argue, you know what a rat
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: crawled down his throat or up is. I'm just gonna
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: say that got inside his abdomen and eight from there
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: and then left the same way got in. Sure, there's
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: no evidence. I don't know, there's no evidence externally then right,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I guess, however, you would have an abdomen of rat shit,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: but there wasn't.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Huh. I don't know, but I could see them just
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: like discarding of the of the remains or something accidentally
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: accidentally discarding remains. Well, I don't know they're doing this autopsy.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: Maybe they took the remains out and then they're like, well,
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: like this was an accident, like these aren't needed or
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I don't freaking know. I don't know how this shit works.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, then why is it not documented? If you're going
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: through the motions of doing an autopsy, an autopsy which
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: its purpose is literally to document, why are they not
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: documenting where the organs went.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: Because they are not good at what they're what they do.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: It's sort of my thought, maybe I don't know. I
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about this place, so I'm not sure
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: like the resources or anything.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: That they have fair enough, But if they're doing an autopsy,
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: you have to assume they're competent. They're medical professionals, right,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: or at least to some degree, have proper instructions because
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: they know a body is going back home, they know
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: a secondary autopsy is going to be performed, they know
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: these things are happening. So why do you have someone
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: just cut him open, not all's good and throw out
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: half his remains.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm not saying it's a good thing, but
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I'm saying I could potentially maybe see that happening.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: My argument though, better autopsies were performed in the eighteen hundreds.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: Seriously, yeah, but to them it was just this was
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: an accident, like there's what are we looking for, you know,
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: and so they just didn't take it seriously.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Maybe I can't. I cannot get my mind over the
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: fact of not take it seriously. Even if you are
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the least competent individual going in to perform this autopsy.
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: How can you not take this seriously?
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: I know it's a seventeen year old boy. Well you
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: should no matter the age or what, right, but like
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: it's a it's a it's a kid.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what he's just cutting him open, take
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: his heart out, and being like, well he doesn't need
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: that anymore three pointer like Toby did the trash can
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: or something like what I can't fathom it. And then
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: not writing down disposed of organs due to decomposition, disposed
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: of organs due to infestation of rat and abdomen. Why
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: was none of that documented?
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Well? And it just it really also doesn't make any
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: sense that his body would not be in really rough
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: shape from a fall exactly.
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: No, no broken bones. He went over a cliff and
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: died from impact, and there is no broken bones. Yeah,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: not a broken back, even though they said his back
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: was broken. Why because if.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: That's the case, and like what killed him?
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: Exactly? So what killed him? Why is organs missing? Why
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: are there so many missteps? There's got to be a
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: reason for these missteps because certain things do not line up.
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, like so okay, so maybe they did use
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: his organs?
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Then oh yeah, now you're onto something. Did someone traffic him,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: did they remove his organs and then they just staged
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: a scene?
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, oh gosh.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: These are the sort of theories that are out there.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: Shit, I hope that's not the case. Like, holy frick,
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I cannot even comprehend what his family is going through
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: because just this, like I have absolute no relationship to him.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: It would just destroy me. I don't think I could
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: fixate on anything else again in my whole entire life.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: So picture this. You're in an area, maybe you're part
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: of the black market or whatever, Maybe you sell organs
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Maybe you're some shady individual like that.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to find a person for us to visualize.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Visualize this person, and you see a foreigner alone, alone,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: who's young and extremely healthy because he's a very active individual.
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Guess what kind of organs he's going to have on them?
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Great ones, working ones, great condition, and there's no one
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: around to stop you from getting them. Abducting him, stealing
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: his organs is a very real possibility. And not only
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the fact that someone did it, the fact that there's
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: authority figures who seem to be making shit up, not
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: documenting properly suggests that they may be involved or at
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: least know and don't want to be a part of it.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: Well, they could also be hiding it too, because I
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: don't know if this country like kind of relies on
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: tourism to some extent.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: Right, so there's a lot of shady questions surrounding.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: That they don't want that getting out there.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Now, I mentioned at the very beginning there is a
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: possibility of something otherworldly. There are some comments online of
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: you know, being abducted and things being taken you know, right, Hey,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: his brain was gone outside of his skull cavity. How
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: is that possible? Well, I don't know, some alien method
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: of sucking it out through a straw, I.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Don't know, you know, alien type thing.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when I say otherworldly, that's what I meant. Yet,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: abduction of aliens, some paranormal shits, some extra extraterrestrials. I mean,
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: that's a bit far fetched. But it is a discussion
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: online as well.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Because like, his brain wasn't in his skull, but there
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: was no like evidence of it getting out.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, that is a clarification I'm not certain of. I'm
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: not certain if there was. Okay, I am certain that
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: there was no evidence of his brain naturally being removed. However,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: what I'm not certain of is in Malta, was there
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: a removal of his brain during the autopsy that I
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. Did they cut open his brain I don't know,
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: or cut open his skull. I don't know. I know
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: his brain or his skull. I keep saying brain and
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: skull back and forth. I know his skull was not
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: broken and or shattered, but whether it was cut deliberately
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: by a medical professional or not professional, I do not know.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: That's another one of these things is the remains. There's
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of gray area surrounding as remains because the
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: autopsies don't have a whole lot and I couldn't find
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: an exact autopsy. I have a feeling that being the
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: fact that we have a German situation here in like
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: a couple countries that are definitely overseas, different languages, language barriers,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: and a lot of stuff is not exactly easily accessible
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: for North Americans and English speaking individuals.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: With myself, huh, yeah, it almost would have been better off.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: I guess if the body just got delivered straight straight
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: to Germany. Yeah, like that might have answered more of
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: people's questions.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: But is that what someone's afraid of? Is that why
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: the organs are removed? Is that why the documentation was
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: done terribly? Maybe they removed organs, like I said, to
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: traffic or black market or whatever.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Because what organs were removed?
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Though, oh a lot. I have a list of my
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna find it here one second. Bear with me, Okay, brain, heart, lungs, liver, pancreas, intestines,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: and others. Is what I have.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Holy, as far as I'm aware, almost everything.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: If as far as I'm aware, all of his organs
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: were gone, holy shit, at least the vast majority.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, which would not really isn't really normal practice, I'm
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: assuming No, So, okay, that's super sketch.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: If you're gonna do something like that, you think you
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: document it removed organs. Sure you could write that down,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: But that wasn't even done. And when they were questioned
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: about it, hey, did you guys remove the organs? No,
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: they denied it. They made up explanations of rats eating
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: it and decomp instead, things that do not make sense
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: and do not line up and have no evidence to suggest,
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: and like.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: You would know, they would have to know that they
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: would be getting asked, right, Yeah, okay.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: So this is a wild and messed up case.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: It is, and it's very sad.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, I would lean towards it being an accident too
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: if there were broken bones, but there isn't any, which
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: tells me there is not an impact, There is not trauma.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I think he was likely trafficked for his organs and
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: then staged as an accident.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, honestly, someone could even have been you know,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: eyeing him up for a few days or whatever and
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: waiting for their chance and stuff. It's true. I didn't
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: even known, true, so because also like who it would
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: be interesting to know too how long he was out there, right,
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: because like if someone had had him for a few
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: days or something, right and then like put his body
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: back out there or something. Oh, I don't know. This
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: is like so sad to think about. You kind of
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: want it just to be an accident and be able
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: to close it up, and you know, people kind of
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: like try to heal and move on a little bit,
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: but you can't, you really really can't.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: No.
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: And then there's also that part where his father, Burnt,
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: says that he has been contacted by some potential witnesses
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: and now he firmly believes that at least one other
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: other individual sorry was there and knows more or was
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: involved brutal. So anyways, I'm curious to know your guys's opinion.
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: This is definitely one of those ones where we got
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: to put our brains together think about it, and discussions
• 57:32
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• 57:35
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• 57:37
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• 57:40
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• 57:42
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• 57:45
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• 57:47
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• 57:48
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• 57:50
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• 57:53
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• 57:54
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• 57:56
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• 57:58
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• 58:01
  Speaker 1: ramble right now, we appreciate the hell out of you.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, and of course until next time, stay.
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: Wicked, nob oh no,