Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #13: ADHD in Young Adults: A Psychologist Reveals the Symptoms Most Parents Don't Know

Transcript

#13: ADHD in Young Adults: A Psychologist Reveals the Symptoms Most Parents Don't Know · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm Sherry Jonas and this is Launch, a podcast for parents with teens and young adults who are struggling and they want to know how to help them become confident, motivated, and independent.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: You can listen to this podcast on Apple, Spotify, and most streaming platforms.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Today's episode is an interview with my guest, Jodi Zettner, a licensed psychologist with over 30 years of experience and currently specializing in ADHD in adults 18 and over.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: You heard me, adults, not children.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Jodi has worked in top-tier hospitals, universities, and currently has a private practice.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: She's a member of multiple psychological associations, which I've mentioned in the show notes, and most notably the Canadian ADHD Resource Alliance.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Jodi helps her clients understand how ADHD presents itself, what the treatment options are, and how they can thrive in their personal and professional lives.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: If your young adult is struggling with motivation, organization, planning, prioritizing, managing their responsibilities and even their emotions, you might be wondering, what is going on with my child?
1:10
SPEAKER_01: Are they lazy?
1:11
SPEAKER_01: Are they behaving like this on purpose?
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Or perhaps could it be something else, something that they can't even control unless they get help?
1:21
SPEAKER_01: We'll be discussing the signs of ADHD that are often missed in young adults and most importantly, how it impacts their ability to launch confidently and successfully in adulthood.
1:34
SPEAKER_01: So let's get started.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Jody Zettner, I am so excited to have you here today.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you for joining me.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Really, I have been looking forward to this for a long time.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I've got to tell you.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: So let's dive in.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: ADHD is a term we've heard for years, but there is still so much confusion around it.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: So let's start off by clarifying for our listener what is ADHD.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: So, as most people think of it, I believe, is the little boy in the classroom who's not paying attention, jumping all around, not doing well in school.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And that is just one snapshot of what ADHD looks like.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: But actually, there are many different manifestations.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: It can look very different.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: You can be the child in the back of the class who isn't listening, you know, face in the moon, whatever.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: And then there are the adults.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: That's where things get a little tricky.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's happening is that we are recognizing that ADHD can look different in different people.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: So I don't want to, I want to hold off on the what are the the behaviors and and the characteristics of it.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: I want to, for this particular moment, just tell me like the clinical version of it.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: So it's a neurodevelopmental disorder.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And what that means is it's neurological.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: So it is something in your brain.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: It's not something that happens to you in your life, in your environment.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: An environment can make it worse or it can make it better, but you're definitely born with it.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: It is clinically a lack of dopamine.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: There's something, and dopamine is one of the neurotransmitters in the brain that kind of gets us excited.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, dopamine increases when we're going on a trip or when we're falling in love.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: But when you've got a lack of dopamine, you're kind of looking for that stimulation outside.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: And that's where the inattentiveness comes in.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: But I think the most important thing is to understand that it is genetic, it is neurodevelopmental, it is a neurological problem.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think people think that it just happens to you because you're scrolling too much on uh social media.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I've noticed, and I think it's because of social media, that more people are talking about it, especially as it relates to adults.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you said, it used to be just little boys.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Why are we seeing this heightened awareness?
4:08
SPEAKER_01: What is going on?
4:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, like anything else, when we have a better understanding of something, we can actually see it clearer.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of, I think people are getting diagnosed more often.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: I'll give you an example, Shari.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, in in 10 years ago, 20 years ago, a woman was anxious, you know, she wasn't having an easy time taking care of, let's say, her career, her kids, her husband, the house, she's forgetting things.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: She'd go to a doctor and she'd say, This is what's going on, and she'd be put on an antidepressant.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: And we would not consider that those behaviors might be ADHD.
4:44
SPEAKER_00: And as our understanding increases and we look beyond just, you know, they're depressed, they're anxious, and we start looking at ADHD, then of course the numbers are going to increase.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Or, and also social media allows us to see things a lot quicker, right?
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: It's a gift and a curse.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: But you mentioned women, a woman.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: So what what's happened?
5:09
SPEAKER_01: I'm understanding that more women are being diagnosed.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Again, is like it walk us through why that's happened, why this increased awareness for women per se.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: So going back I'm sorry, interrupt you, and adults and adults.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: What's what's that all about?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: First, I'll start off with a few stat just the one statistic that I think kind of sums this up, and then I'll elaborate.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: So in childhood today, it's three males to one female.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: All right.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: So three three little boys are getting diagnosed compared to one little girl.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: When we go into an adulthood, now we have one-to-one.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: So what happened?
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: The shift.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: The shift is because now women are getting recognized.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I want to be clear though, men are also getting recognized, men who who present like the stereotypical woman.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: And we'll get into that a little bit more when we talk about characteristics and symptoms.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: That's what's happening.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: So some men also are being diagnosed later in life.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: I think that we understand the psychiatric problem better.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And yes, it is a psychiatric diagnosis.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I know a lot of people could be uncomfortable with that, but it is.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: That's good to know.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I think that's important.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: That's very important.
6:21
SPEAKER_01: As you know, many young adults today are struggling.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: They're struggling with motivation, uh, managing their responsibilities, managing their emotions, task initiative, being productive.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: What are the signs or behaviors that parents should pay attention to when considering ADHD as an explanation?
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm gonna start with the the first, there's a there's a bunch of things that we can say about this.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna start with the first one that parents often say when they come not knowing why their you know older adolescent or or young adult is not performing.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: They're lazy.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: The number one thing that you will hear about these individuals is that they're lazy.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:06
SPEAKER_00: And I have a problem with that word.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: So for me, in general, when we are lazy, and it's not to do with ADHD, when we're lazy, it's a bit of a choice.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Like you might be sitting on the couch on a Sunday knowing that I don't know, you need to change your sheets or you know, you need to clean the toilet.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And you might decide, oh, you know, I'm feeling lazy.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna do it, I'm gonna do it tomorrow.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: That's a conscious choice.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: Young adults who are lazy, they're not doing their work, they're not, you know, they're sitting around.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: There's actually something called an executive function, which is part of the brain.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Remember, we talked about how it's a neurological problem.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So there are executive functions that are in the frontal lobe.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm getting a little clinical.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: It's in the brain, and it's called task initiation specifically for laziness, or another word that I think parents will relate to is procrastinating.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: So task initiation, which is a fancy way of saying I'm having a hard time getting to do what I'm supposed to do.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, getting your shit done.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And essentially, exactly.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: And what's important to understand there is that these young adults, it's not that they don't want to do the task, they seriously are having uh a lot of trouble getting to do the task.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Whatever drives us to get up and do it, they're lacking.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Right.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: So now that I'm getting into uh executive functions, let me elaborate a bit because there's a few of them.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So we have please do, please do.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of of looking at what what would ADHD look like?
8:44
SPEAKER_00: So now we're talking about what's the diagnosis.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: So the different ways of going about it.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: And part of the problem is that the diagnostic and statistic manual, the DSM, which is the psychiatric bible, you know, it's very clear on their criteria of how to diagnose.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: But there's also more subtle signs, I like to call them, which would fall more on under the executive functions.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, as I mentioned, task initiation is one of them.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Another one would be organization.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Now, a lot of us can be a little disorganized.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: These individuals actually really, really can be a complete mess.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Although, ironically, you may also see your young adult being hyper-organized because they're so afraid of forgetting something or of not being able to stay on top of it, they're actually over-organizing, if I can say.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: The interesting thing is that you can't just say, oh, they're not disorganized, she's so organized, that's why you know we she can't have ADHD.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would argue with that, that they're compensating a lot.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And that's a big word, also compensating.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: The next one would be planning and prioritizing.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: So, Shari, when you have five tasks to do, five things that you need to do.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, best example is a recipe.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: Or if you're making three recipes, you need to make it for a dinner.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm laughing because this is such a great example.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: It's because it's something that a young adult would have to deal with when they when they start working.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm using it as an example, but a young adult, it would be homework.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Right.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: It would be homework because I have three exams coming up at three different dates.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: I've got different amounts of information for each of them.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where to start.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And so then what happens is they freeze, they don't do anything.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And in terms of the recipe analogy, it has to do with timing, it has to do with which one do I do first?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: How long does it take?
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And it gets overwhelmed.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: You get overwhelmed, you don't know where to start.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: So planning and prioritizing is an executive function.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: So understand that that is being affected in the brain.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: There is a dysfunction in that process.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: And most people don't under don't recognize that you can actually have a disability in that area.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's this is huge because again, people are so it's such a small little definition when people go attention, deficit, hyperactivity.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: They just look at the each word, but you're not even it's funny that you mentioned laziness because it's you it's the opposite of being hyper.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: So when they're small, right, they're hyper, and then when they get older, they become lazy, but it's well actually.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: So there's three, you know, you can be hyperactive, impulsive, inattentive, right?
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Those are like the three main headings for ADHD.
11:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: But you but what we've learned is you can be hyperactive internally.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: So when you see your child, your adult child, sitting on the couch, kind of scrolling or just you know, looking lazy, you have no idea what's going on in that brain.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: It is going a mile a minute.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: What about parents who say, My son game is gaming all day long?
11:46
SPEAKER_01: He's hyper focused on gaming.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: What do you how do you hear?
11:49
SPEAKER_00: So that's remember we talked about dopamine?
11:51
SPEAKER_00: We talked about stimulation.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay, oh right.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: So that is that is the way that they're and everybody can be different.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: For some people, it can be gaming, some people will not do gaming.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: For other people, it could be, you know, watching movies, scrolling online.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be gaming or video games, it often is, but it doesn't have to be.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting that the word hyper is not just hyperactive, it's hyper-focused.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, uh actually, those are two different things.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: So hyper focus is it's not a criteria or an executive function, but we tend it's it is an absolute characteristic.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Hyper focus is when the individual who has ADHD, not only ADHD, but we'll start with that, has ADHD, has a high interest.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, if they're interested, I don't know, well, gaming would be one of them, but if they're interested in, I don't know, or horses.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: They love horseback riding when it comes to taking care of their horse, when it comes to cleaning their horse, you know, and doing what I don't know where horses came from, but it's it's an example.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: It's because it's it's one of those things, it's just happens to be a specific interest, right?
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Where there's no problem, you don't see laziness, you don't see procrastination, you see them being responsible because it's a hyperfocus.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: CEOs who have ADHD of companies have a hyperfocus.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: ADHD is a blessing, it can be a blessing and a curse as well.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we're gonna talk about that in a minute.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: There's there's I know there's got there's gotta be some good things.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: It's gotta be.
13:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, if you can if your hyper focus is in an area that is going to help you be successful in life, then it's a good thing.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: There are there are ADHD individuals don't have any like specific interest.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: They're the most challenging.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: When your child has absolutely no interest, when they keep changing programs in school, when they don't like any of their jobs, that can be when ADHD winds up being very difficult.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about more some more science.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: What am I looking for?
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, so we talked about so we're still in the executive functions because these are the ones that you're going to see.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: So the next one would be impulse control.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Impul would be online shopping, it could be driving fast, making just oh, it could be interrupting.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: It could be uh interrupting is a big one, actually for men, but you see it a lot in women.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I see that uh is not written anywhere, but I've seen it a lot in women who have ADHD is when you're talking, they finish your sentence with you.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: They kind of are are they they're so ahead, they so they don't have the patience that they're actually talking with you.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so many misconceptions.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: You would think that that type of person is just being rude, but they actually can't control themselves.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: It is perceived as rude.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: You're absolutely right, which is unfortunate.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's the other thing is parents would get angry at their kids, adult children, you know, for interrupting, for speaking out of turn, for blurting things out.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's an executive function.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: They actually have trouble holding back.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Just jump ahead for a second about medication, but we'll get there.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: But a lot of people who have been on meds have told me that they have an easier time not interrupting now that they're on medication.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Wow, this is so interesting, Jody.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: Really, I think it's something that people just don't know enough about.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: We just jump to conclusions.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: We think either our kid is okay or they're not okay, or I just love all this information.
15:29
SPEAKER_01: And I love how it relates to us as young as adults.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: That's the most important thing.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: We have to, you know, I'm you know, the the listening audience are parents with young adults who are struggling.
15:39
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I just think that we have to open up their eyes to the possibility that many of the issues that these young adults are dealing with are not their fault and are treatable, right?
15:52
SPEAKER_00: That's the most important message, I think, from all of this.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: That, you know, in terms of thinking that that these these kids are are doing it on purpose.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: That's a really important distinction.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I always have the problem with uh lazy.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: That word really bothers me when I hear parents saying that, and bored.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: The other word that that I always I always just you know, it perks me up a little bit to go, okay, lazy and bored.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Let's see how that looks like.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: I think that's such a big thing to say about young adults because I think that's what parents get so frustrated.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: And also they take it personally.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: If you're not doing things around the house that I've asked you to do, what's you know, I'm a I'm bothered.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: What's wrong with you?
16:34
SPEAKER_01: You were gonna say you're not respecting me.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: They don't, they take it's personal, it's not personal.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: That your young adult has to be treated.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: So, so if a parent suspects ADHD, what would be their next steps in getting a proper diagnosis?
16:51
SPEAKER_01: Walk us through that process.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you want me to go a little bit just finish off the list of executive functions?
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Keep going.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know there were more.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's going.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about impulse control.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say emotional control is a big one.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's crying easily or getting angry very quickly, that is also emotional dysregulation.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: We see that it is not a criteria in officially in terms of diagnosis, but there is a lot of thinking that it should be emotional dysregulation, flexible thinking.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, some people really have a hard time with uh changing plans at the last minute, being flexible in their day.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Not everybody, but that could be a characteristic.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: And understand you don't need all of these.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing that's really important.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: You don't need all of these, you need a certain amount to kind of get the diagnosis.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: Working memory is a really important one.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Why are you forgetting all the time?
17:44
SPEAKER_00: How come you don't know where you put your keys?
17:46
SPEAKER_00: How come you don't know where you put your wallet?
17:48
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, so young adults who have memory issues, it's kind of confusing.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: So it it they really do have a harder time holding on to information and it takes longer.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of ADHD individuals will compensate, let's say, academically, they will study harder than their peers.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: They'll appear to do well because they're compensating well, but they're actually working, you know, one and a half times more.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's relevant for your audience to understand that that even though their child might be doing well in university, for an example, it's to understand how difficult it is for them to do well, that they are they are working very hard and compensating because they're bright enough.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: So that's an important distinction, too.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: ADHD doesn't have to bring with it any learning disabilities.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: You can be extremely bright with ADHD.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I've met a few that have photographic memories and that that uh photographic memory, which is why they've been able to do so well academically, doesn't mean they don't have ADHD.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Right, they've compensated.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about compensation.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Like you you've used that a word a few times.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: So just to to to finish off, there's just one more.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Am I acting like I have ADHD right now?
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's still but these are important because it's it's in terms of your audience listening, and if they suspect their child, these are some of the things that they can look for.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Self-monitoring is an interesting one because a lot of ADHD people have difficulty remembering to eat or drink.
19:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: They'll get involved, they'll hyperfocus on something, they'll get caught up, and they'll literally, like at the end of the day, go, why don't I feel well?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't eat.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: So self-monitoring is is a big one also.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And I just want to quickly mention something that's also come up with uh ADHD individuals is rejection sensitivity.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: It's perceiving in your social environment behaviors from your peers or your family or whomever as really, really being negative and impacts them at to an extreme level.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: They're more sensitive to seeing rejection, like feeling that they're being rejected socially.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: Jody, that is huge.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: That is huge.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: That's a very difficult one.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot for them to process and deal with.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: Which doesn't help because when we were kid when we were kids and you somebody didn't like you in the classroom, you were offended and you took it very personally.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: But as we got older, we kind of cared less about it as much.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: But social media has exasperated that.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And really, I I mean, you've got to do you suggest to your patients, clients that they maybe remove themselves from social media to it depends because there are again, like you said before, it's a blessing and a curse.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: There are some really good people on there, could you know, I see them that are extremely supportive of the ADHD community.
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Extremely supportive.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: So that being said, a blessing and a curse, there's there's some ways to to feel to feel validated, to feel you're not alone, to feel unique to you.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: You just mentioned community.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: I think that that's important for young adults who are going to be or have been diagnosed with it, to find a community of like-minded individuals or people that are supportive of that to help them to move forward.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: I think that many those are two different things.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of socially, in terms of community, ironically, they tend to find each other.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: They're the, you know, just because a brain works differently doesn't mean it's not the right way.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: So, and I'm gonna use this word neurodiverse.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: So, neurodiverse just means neurologically diverse, different, right?
21:43
SPEAKER_00: So neurodiverse falls into just briefly, I mean, ADHD people are neurodiverse, those on the spectrum, autism spectrum disorder are considered neurodiverse, and also giftedness, gifted people can be considered neurodiverse.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Those are the three areas.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Areas, but neurodiverse people tend to find each other because the like-mindedness attracts us attracts them.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: I like that.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: So, but in terms of support, yes, it's knowing that, you know, and it's and I work a lot with my my clients on self-esteem and confidence.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: They're it's so low, you know, because they look, they act, they feel as if I should be able to do this like my peers are, but I'm having so much more difficulty.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: And so that really impacts their self-image.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Jodi, I love that you mentioned confidence because it is one of the biggest challenges for parents, they're looking at their young adult and they feel that they have absolutely terrible low self-esteem and they don't know how to, they don't know how to help.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: So it's almost like saying, well, you how can you help unless they get treated?
22:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, in terms of that area, I'm just gonna veer, I mean it's related, but I'll veer a little bit.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: You know, when working, when talking to someone, it's not even working, not even as a psychologist, when talking to someone who's not feeling good about themselves, when you say, Oh, you shouldn't feel that way, you've got so much going for you, you know, like people love you, you're beautiful, you're smart, you're this, whatever it is.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: That isn't actually helpful.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Because whatever you're saying, there, you know, if that would work, then they go, okay, and they feel better, right?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Right, yeah, I think it's more about like supporting the fact that that they feel this way and that it must be really hard for them because they feel this way.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can add in, I don't see you that way, but I see that this is bothering you because you see yourself this way.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: That's being empathetic and validating their experience.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Parents should not be afraid that they're going to make it worse by saying to them, you know, I see that this is really hard for you.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: You're hearing them better.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: You're hearing them.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about the correlation of anxiety, depression, and ADHD.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: So there's a word called comorbidity.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: And comorbidity just means that you have another diagnosis along with ADHD.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And there is a high incidence of comorbidity with individuals who have ADHD.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: So the interesting thing about anxiety, at least from my perspective, is your anxiety can be from your ADHD.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: So when you are treated, your anxiety can go down.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's the rumination, thinking of things over and over in your head.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh, you know, just yeah, just being not being able to let give your head a break.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: You're always just thinking about everything, makes you anxious.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: So when you take medication, we'll again we'll get there for ADHD, it can reduce your anxiety.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: But then there's also the comorbidity of a generalized anxiety disorder.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: So you actually can have a separate diagnosis that when you take ADHD meds, you still are anxious.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So you kind of have to be differentiate.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, there's the anxiety that's related to depression.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: And depression will often happen for individuals that have been not diagnosed with ADHD and not treated.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Depression will happen because over time, there's just so many ways you know you can compensate.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: And I think I had mentioned to you before about, you know, if you're a young adult with ADHD and you've got three balls in the air because you're living at home and mom is cooking for you and cleaning, and you just have to take care of yourself, you're compensating.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Then you go out in the real world and suddenly you have your own apartment.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have a relationship, you've got a job, you've got to do grocery shopping, you've got to feed yourself, you've got to pay your bills.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Now there's more than three balls in the air.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Now what's going to happen?
25:54
SPEAKER_00: You're not going to be able to juggle them, they're going to drop.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: And that's when things start to get overwhelming and that can lead to depression.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And so we we can ask the parents at that point, well, while the young adult is still at home, the enabling.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: The enabling, it's not helping them because they're going to be on their own one day and they need to learn how to do so many of these tasks on their own.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: All of that.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, whether it's enabling them academically, enabling them like um in terms of paying bills, you know.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: One of my favorite sayings is if you want a man to eat for a day, give him a fish.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: If you want him to be able to eat for life, teach him to fish.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: It's I love that saying too.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to, I don't want to move too quickly past the characteristics or the behaviors of parents.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: I think this is great.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: I think this is eye-opening for them.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's going to be huge when parents start realizing it's not their fault.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: They're not doing it on purpose.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: It's not who they are.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: And there's a solution.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: I can I can help them.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll just mention a few more qualities that I think your listeners would be interested in.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: We talked about hyperfocus, but I wanted to talk about the ADHD person that is often a people pleaser.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: That's just a characteristic that tends to be with there.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: I just thought you'd find it interesting, like for your listeners to know that if they see, you know, like always saying yes, always doing, and then actually being overwhelmed by that because it's hard for them to not want to be liked or be rejected, right?
27:33
SPEAKER_00: So they're people pleaser.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: There's also time blindness, which I think is important to bring up.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Talk about that.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Talk about time blindness.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: There are individuals who have ADHD who seriously have difficulty with understanding time, with processing time.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: So again, doing homework, right?
27:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it won't take me long, three hours later.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: No concept of how long a task will take, no concept how long it will take to get to an appointment.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: So you'll have your ADHD individual either coming to appointments early or late.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: You'll have both.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Jody.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I think there's gonna be a lot of people walking walking away from this episode going, uh-oh.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: And and the other one, the other big one also self-medicating.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Self-medicating with alcohol or weed marijuana is a big one.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: And what does this do for them?
28:30
SPEAKER_01: The purpose of the self-medication, is it because it's calming them down?
28:34
SPEAKER_01: It's I got it.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: It's it's it gives them a little bit of a uh respite, a little bit of a break.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, both alcohol and marijuana are both depressants.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: So over time it's not gonna have the desired impact.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: It'll make them feel worse.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: And eventually they're not drinking, they're not drunk anymore, they're not high anymore, so they back to their own reality and they or or they're or they're increasing, they're increasing their drugs or their alcohol.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: Just wanted to add that along with self-medicating, also another thing is food.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you're looking at addictions, right?
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Whether it be alcohol or marijuana or other drugs, food is also an addiction, and food issues can also be seen in ADHD.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Either no impulse control and eating too much, right, or ruminating about not wanting to eat too much and not eating enough.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: So it sounds like an eating disorder.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Does it is it looks like an eating disorder, but it's not necessarily again, it's you know, it's it's you have to be sensitive to diagnosing.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: So it can look like an eating disorder where the individual is not eating a lot and losing weight, but it could come from more of a rumination anxiety.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: And I've seen individuals go on ADHD meds, which we're heading into, and actually have less of a problem overeating or under-eating.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: I thought it was important to add that in terms of I think it is, it's very important.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: It's one that no one would ever think of would be related to ADHD, but I've seen it.
30:08
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: Especially because we're seeing a lot of young adults that are becoming again.
30:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just I'm just kind of extrapolating into real life situations, they're becoming obsessed with working out, with right.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: That's absolutely they're not they're accounting their macros and their calories, and so again, like talk to me about that.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Is that if you say, oh, you know, my my son, my daughter, they're they're constantly running, they're constantly working out, they're constantly measured, weighing their different, you have to differentiate between the diagnoses, like, you know, is it body dysmorphia?
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it an eating disorder?
30:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, but if we look at it from the ADHD lens, then it's just a kind of it looks like an obsession, and it can be an obsession because of ADHD.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Good.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's why it's a little concerned.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: Are are there more?
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Are there there's some so many?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to add, I wanted to add that just because I think it's an important element, you know.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, parents will think my my child is eating so much and they're gaining weight and and they have no self-control.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: And then they'll add some of the other stuff and go, oh, maybe.
31:19
SPEAKER_01: It's incredible, really.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: It's such an education.
31:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, I've been around a long time and I've never what you're sharing today is so revealing to us.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm again, I'm thinking a lot of parents are going to be not only questioning or understanding that this might be happening to my young adult, but even to themselves.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it's an interesting point, Sherry, because what is very common is the child gets diagnosed and then the parent goes, Oh, wait, I'm like that too, and then recognizes they've been ADHD.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: You see that a lot.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's highly genetic, right?
31:55
SPEAKER_00: Highly genetic.
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: So 55% of the time, if a parent has it, a child will have it.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: And then 35% if one child has it, the sibling will have it.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Good to know.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: Wow, okay.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: All right.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm already thinking which one of my parents had it, but anyway, or which one of my kids had it.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's what I ask.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: I actually, when I'm seeing when I start discussing with a client that they have ADHD, I go, so which one of your parents do you think have it?
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And they go, Oh, right, definitely buy.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: And they they they know right off the bat.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: Ready to walk us through the process of you know, getting a proper diagnosis?
32:38
SPEAKER_00: So here's the challenge.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: So one of the one of the ways you can get a diagnosis is by a psychiatrist.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Although it can be difficult to get to a psychiatrist to have a conversation, right?
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Even to get your child to make that appointment.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, a psychiatrist can make the diagnosis.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: More common is going to a psychologist who specializes in psychoeducational testing.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: There are places to go.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: It is quite expensive, several thousand dollars.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: Comprehensive exam.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: So it winds up being prohibited for many families, unfortunately.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: So there is there is a limitation in terms of, but it's needed.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: That's unfortunate.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: I wish we had a better answer because I I feel like this is becoming so much more common and and would be so helpful if if young adults or adults of all ages could be treated, but now it feels like the it's not it's not easy to get the diagnosis.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's so I I wanna I want to just correct the word common.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: I think that we need to differentiate between common and better recognized.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: I think there is a difference between the two.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, people will, oh, everybody has ADHD.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, not everybody has ADHD.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: Everybody could have some of these problems.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: Everybody could have a lazy day, everybody could procrastinate, everybody can have uh some willpower issues with food.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: The difference is that this is an ongoing problem for an ADHD person and it impacts their their life.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: I think when I say common, just so I can clarify, my listener, my audience, it's it would probably be more common for their young adult who is struggling with all of these executive cognitive functions.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: And yet, so it it's it's okay.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: So we can we can say you just got to get yourself tested or you get your young adult.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: The investment, obviously, because it can change the like I'm a believer, it can change the course of of your child's life, you know.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: You invest in your child.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna invest in your child in a in a tutor or in school or going on vacation or summer camp or whatever it is, you know, hockey.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh so this is the same thing, and not everybody looks at it that way.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that's important.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Don't spend your money on other things before you spent like spend your money on what's important and that their health is important, their mental health.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Prioritizing that and it can it can change, I've seen it change people's lives.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's assume let's assume that the young adult receives the ADHD diagnosis.
35:24
SPEAKER_01: What are the most effective treatment options?
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Let's just get treatment.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Let's tell me about that.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: So the gold standard of treatment according to CADRA, again, the Canadian ADHD research, is medication.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And then you'll have the parents go, Well, I'm not giving my kids meds or I don't believe in medication.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: And as a very intelligent colleague of mine said, medication is not a religion, it's not to believe in or not to believe in it.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: People take, you know, medication for all different kinds of things.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: If this is going to change the quality of your life, then you take it.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: And these medications generally are called stimulant medications, which is kind of paradoxical to, well, if they're hyperactive, why are you taking a stimulant?
36:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, these medications affect the dopamine, it helps to kind of increase it in your brain so that you're not seeking it externally.
36:23
SPEAKER_00: It's life-changing for many people, life-changing.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: I had one young woman who took medication for the first time and she cried the first day that she took it.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: She says, I can't believe that other people think like this.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Like just everything, yeah, yeah.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: And then I have the individuals, which I love, is I'm not sure if it's working.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: And then I said, Well, forget it for a day, or take a day when you're going to work and see what happens, or going to school.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, they do forget it one day and they go, Oh my God, I got nothing done today.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: So it's that quick.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: That quick.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, it it it is so medication.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: The thing with stimulant meds is that it impacts you the first day you take it.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it goes in in your system and out your system at the end of the day.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: So, unlike an antidepressant, you don't have to build up in the same way, like start slow and then get off it slow.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can take it for five days, say, I don't like the way I feel on this medication and just stop it.
37:21
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: That's good to know.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: I often recommend consistency in taking the meds.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: Just the way it's just better that way.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: But medication, there are several.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you might have to try a few to find the one that you're that suits you, but it can be life-changing.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: But medication alone doesn't cure ADHD.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, tell us about that.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it helps to reduce the symptoms.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: But there is counseling that is important as well just to learn how to do things differently.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's actually important because a lot of ADHD people will try harder.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: And you can't try harder with ADHD.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: You need to try differently.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: You need to find a different way to do the thing that you want to get done.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: Give me an example.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, going to the gym.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm definitely gonna go to the gym tomorrow, or I'm gonna go three times next week.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, no problem.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: They say that and they go, it's really gonna happen.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: They don't do anything around that decision to increase the likelihood it will happen.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you increase the likelihood it'll happen?
38:34
SPEAKER_00: First, you want to go to the gym three times next week?
38:37
SPEAKER_00: When?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Put it in your agenda.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Pick the times that you are able to go to the gym, make an appointment with yourself.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Second, the days that you go to the gym, what do you need?
38:49
SPEAKER_00: What do you need to prepare?
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Are you going in the morning?
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Take out your clothes the night before, prepare your water bottle, do everything to make it easy in the morning so that you can actually get out the door to go to the gym.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Or if it's after work, pack your bag the night before.
39:04
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you have the bag.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: If you are waking up in the morning and plan to go to the gym after work and you have done nothing and you're racing to go to work, it's not gonna happen.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
39:13
SPEAKER_01: So you're I'm what I'm hearing is be prepared, have some routine, have structure.
39:19
SPEAKER_01: Structure.
39:21
unknown: Right.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: Structure, structure is the best thing for ADHD individuals and the thing that they actually like the least.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: Why is that?
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, why do they like it the least?
39:31
SPEAKER_00: Because ADHD individuals generally thrive on change, something different, stimulating.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: Structure is routine, but you also are more productive.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: By the way, all of us are more productive with structure.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: And routine.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: We're all, we all, if we have a routine, if we know when we're doing, we all thrive on it and feel better, feel more secure.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: So I understand gold standard medication.
40:01
SPEAKER_01: But talk to me about other forms of treatment, just in case, just in case.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like counseling, counseling, coaching, learning how to do things differently, tips, tips and tools.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: Tips and tools that you're gonna get from your account, from your therapist.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, from a from a from uh an ADHD coach or um a therapist is about as an example.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: ADHD people will often lie to themselves.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: And what do I mean by that?
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Text message comes through from your friend, you know.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm gonna get back to her.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get back to her later.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Later never happens because once that thought is out of your head, it is gone forever until you're like, until your friend texts you again and go, like, what you know, where were you?
40:48
SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I really like, this little uh rule that um you can tell yourself is the two to five minute rule.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: The two for the five-minute rule means that if you can do something within two to five minutes, do it right away.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't say to yourself, I'm gonna do it later.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Do it immediately.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: I love that be more productive.
41:08
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And if you can't do it immediately, make a note, do something that will help you remind, will remind you to do it later.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
41:18
SPEAKER_01: That's great advice.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: So if it can be done in two to five minutes, like making your bed.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Not I'll come back and make it, or you know, or uh, oh yeah, I need to, I need to get milk, I need to put milk on the list.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, chances are if you're not putting milk on the list as soon as you think of it, you will likely go to the grocery store and forget milk.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: That's a great tip.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
41:41
SPEAKER_01: So I'm a I'm an advocate of pardon?
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Just one tip, right?
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Do you have more in your in your bag?
41:46
SPEAKER_00: Can you well, I mean, one of my other favorite ones is don't put it down, put it away.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that one.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: That is a favorite of mine.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: If I put my hand on something, like my pajamas, I better put it straight into the drawer.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: That's a great put it down, put it away.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: These are these are simple things.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, simple concepts.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and of course, the challenge is actually to follow through.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: And like anything in life, the more you do it and practice it, the easier it'll be.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: Routine.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: It may it becomes a habit, right?
42:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm an advocate of meditation, you know, so meditation, exercise, drinking enough water, eating properly, all of those things are good.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: The problem with that is that without medication, it's hard to implement that.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you're asking, and it's the same thing for for major depression.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: You're asking individuals to do something that originally would have helped them, but they're not doing it because they have you know the the mental health issue.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Just go for a walk outside, you'll feel better.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: Get them out of a house.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen.
43:06
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't happen because they're not they're not well, right?
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's depression or ADHD.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: So all of these wonderful suggestions are actually, it's not that they don't know to do them.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: They've heard about them, they know they should do them, but they struggle, they struggle to get themselves to do that.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, 100%.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: Got it.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: And then and then, especially like with food or is they eat the bag of chips, and then they'll they'll feel remorse.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: Why did I eat the bag of chips?
43:32
SPEAKER_01: But don't we all though?
43:35
SPEAKER_00: This happens more often.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sure.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you're right, you're right.
43:40
SPEAKER_00: More often making fortune.
43:42
SPEAKER_01: So let's go on the fact that okay, the young adult has had the diagnosis.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: What changes can a parent expect to see once a treatment plan is in effect and working?
43:56
SPEAKER_00: So if your adult child's living with you, yes, the the They they medication regularly and having them get support to do things differently in their life, yeah.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Great.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: But the parents also have to do things differently.
44:13
SPEAKER_00: So for example, you want your child, I don't know, to come to dinner.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're living at home.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: They everybody sits down at dinner at seven o'clock.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: It's that's what you have in your house.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: And if you're yelling upstairs or down the hall, you know, come for dinner, and they're busy hyper focusing on something, your child doesn't hear it.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: And then you start a whole argument.
44:39
SPEAKER_00: I called you, how come you didn't hear me?
44:41
SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you listening?
44:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, you you're just being rude, whatever.
44:45
SPEAKER_00: No, they're not.
44:46
SPEAKER_00: So a parent needs to go, and by the way, this is especially important for younger kids, but it can apply to a partner who has ADHD or an adult child who has ADHD.
44:58
SPEAKER_00: Go to their room, put your hand on their shoulder, wait till they turn, and then say, It's dinner.
45:06
SPEAKER_00: I'd like you to come in five minutes or ten minutes.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: Don't ask them to come that second.
45:12
SPEAKER_00: Give them a warning.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Because who likes to be interrupted in the middle of anything?
45:17
SPEAKER_00: You don't.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: So that would be an example of what it would be like before treatment versus after treatment.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh, same thing.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: You're not your child is not going to that, and that's the as I said, medication doesn't cure you.
45:29
SPEAKER_02: Right.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: So you calling down the hall, there's not suddenly gonna hear you better.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: They're focused, they don't hear anything.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Right.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: That's I'm I'm I'm wondering like if if you're and again, I'm you I I'm just bringing up time blindness because I just love that term.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: But are we gonna start would could we start seeing changes in their behavior, such as they're they're getting places on time, they're managing their emotions, they're managing their no again, it's not a cure, Shahry.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: You still have to you have to understand you have time blindness, okay.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: You have to compensate for you learn to compensate it.
46:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, this isn't working.
46:09
SPEAKER_00: I tell my clients they need to learn by experience.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: If it took you an hour to get to your doctor's office and you thought it only took 15 minutes or half an hour, now by experience, you need to learn it and apply it.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, ADHD individuals can be very stubborn.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: So understanding that that they're not they're not perceiving time, you know, in a way that's helpful to them, then they have to learn by experience.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: The parent also needs to recognize that in terms of having a dialogue with with the adult child who's living there, and the child understanding they have time blindness is able to listen to the parent better.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's going to take you 15 minutes, honey.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: I think it's gonna take you a half an hour.
46:55
SPEAKER_01: So I like where we're going here because it feels like the it's very important that there's self-reflection, self-awareness.
47:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, very important.
47:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I I like to support my clients who have ADHD to be more comfortable with their idiosyncrasies, their characteristics, and when they do make a mistake, you know, to almost be light of it.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's my ADHD, or gotta add 10 minutes onto that run, you know, that kind of thing.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Instead of, oh, why did it, why didn't I do that right?
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Why is it I'm so stupid?
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Why do I keep doing that?
47:31
SPEAKER_00: It's to understand that it is challenging and that there are ways to get around it and to be much lighter with yourself.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I notice that a lot that people are saying I have ADHD is almost like saying, you know, and it they are die, they're diagnosed with it, they're on the medication, but they're comfortable admitting it.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm a flaw, I'm a flawed human being.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm gonna be a little disorganized, but it it almost like that self-awareness, it's almost comforting to go, okay.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: So, because people walking around with this perception that they're perfect and it's it's not good.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, we are and and you cannot have ADHD and be uncomfortable with yourself, right?
48:11
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can be putting yourself down.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's not uncommon today either.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: Well I I I want them to be themselves, you know.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: ADHD, I've always said, is the best of the worst.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: Meaning, if you're gonna have a diagnosis, ADHD is one that you can manage.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: And I I think just understanding yourself, being yourself, they're some of the best people I know.
48:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, we talked about what's the I don't know, I don't want to say positive side, but don't say that yet.
48:42
SPEAKER_01: I want to save that for the that's the best of it.
48:45
SPEAKER_01: I want to save it for the end.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: I know that there's some good things about it.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: I just want to know for many parents that are listening, they want to support their young adult in the best way possible.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: What can they do?
48:58
SPEAKER_01: What can they do in terms of supporting themselves?
49:02
SPEAKER_01: Talk to me about that.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: Educate themselves.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: I I've seen it, I've seen parents, you know, the child will get the diagnosis.
49:08
SPEAKER_00: And I say child, adult child, I mean it could be an older team.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Still your child.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, the child will get the diagnosis as if, okay, medication, we're good.
49:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, no, again, I'm gonna, and I'm repeating myself again, not a cure.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: You need to educate yourself on what ADHD is to help your child manage.
49:30
SPEAKER_00: They're living at home, you're supporting them, you you've been not understanding that they're not, they're not lazy, they're not bored, they're not, you know, procrastinating on purpose, all the challenges they have.
49:41
SPEAKER_00: This is this is because of a neurodevelopmental disorder.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Educate yourself so that you can have more compassion for your child and that you can deal with them differently.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fantastic because I don't see it a lot.
49:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't see it a lot.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: It's very frustrating.
49:58
SPEAKER_01: The education part.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Ah, that's unfortunate.
50:03
SPEAKER_01: I always like to end each episode on a positive note.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: And you almost said it.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just gonna say for parents, an ADHD diagnosis can feel overwhelming.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: But in fact, it is not always bad news.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not always well, it's not always bad news because there's other qualities.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, talk to me about those qualities.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Let's tell parents some of the positive aspects of it.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: I have to say it's some of the nicest people I know have ADHD.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: They're kind, they're compassionate, they're empathetic because of their sensitivity, they're really considered.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: The people pleasing can work for you, right?
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Like friend, as partner, as whatever.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: There's all those wonderful, very considerate, very, you know, aware.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: All of those things are great.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: In terms of career-wise, there's a lot of creativity.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: A lot of ADHD people are very creative.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: A lot of ADHD people are entrepreneurs, and they can be very successful.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, again, it it's it it manifests differently in everybody.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Successful in that they have an interest, they're focused on it, they're able to build a company, they're able to sell, they're able to, yeah.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: So uh all these things can be a positive factor.
51:18
SPEAKER_00: It's not all negative.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: Did we leave anything out?
51:24
SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've covered so much.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: I really do.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: I think education, I think it's worth getting that diagnosis.
51:31
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, for those parents who have kids who still want to go to university, and I'm thinking we're talking about adult kids, a written evaluation will allow for support in the universities.
51:46
SPEAKER_00: They they can get accommodation, accommodation for writing their exam in a quiet room, accommodation for having a longer time to put a paper together.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: That can make the difference in their success academically.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: So you need to have that diagnosis and evaluation to get that accommodation in universities, which can prove to be a value, invaluable.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: So that investment in the value in the evaluation winds up being an investment in your child's future.
52:17
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Jody, thank you so much.
52:21
SPEAKER_01: I so appreciate your expertise on this topic.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that you have provided such incredible valuable information for parents.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: I I know I appreciate your time and the work that you're doing.
52:33
SPEAKER_01: Really, I'm I enjoy it.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: I really do enjoy what I do.
52:36
SPEAKER_01: I know it shows, it shows.
52:38
SPEAKER_01: If if you feel very passionate, it seems and if anybody wants to reach me, you can find me on my uh website, which is all of it will be in the show notes.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: I promise.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure people are gonna want to talk to you.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I know I want to make an appointment.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's been an absolute pleasure.
52:56
SPEAKER_00: You're allowed, you're allowed to take advantage of me as a friend.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: One of my girlfriends said to me that I'm a friend with benefits.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: Jody, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast.
53:07
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: That was such an insightful conversation with Jody.
53:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, didn't we all grow up thinking that ADHD was just something kids had, especially those hyperactive little boys who couldn't sit still in the classroom?
53:22
SPEAKER_01: Certainly not something that your young adult might be battling with.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: I really hope that this episode gave you more clarity on what ADHD looks like, how it might be impacting your young adult's life, and what you can do to help.
53:36
SPEAKER_01: If you know another parent who might need to hear this, please take a moment to share it with them.
53:42
SPEAKER_01: And if you're interested in getting in touch with Jody Zettner, all of her contact information is in the show notes.
53:47
SPEAKER_01: And one last thing, feel free to leave a comment if this episode resonated with you.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: And please make sure to subscribe so you don't miss another.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm Shari Jonas, and this is Launch.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
54:33
SPEAKER_01: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Talk to you soon.