Latest / Let's Talk with Carl Lee / A Conversation with Long-Time College and NFL Coach Willie Shaw

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A Conversation with Long-Time College and NFL Coach Willie Shaw · Let's Talk with Carl Lee

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta work. You gotta work. Ry Sign, it's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: mine gotta show. Everybody is my time. Can't you gotta work?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Cry Sin another mind whom talking dogs day Line, don't talk,
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  Speaker 1: you Gotta work.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee. Let's Talk is
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  Speaker 2: probably presented by Attorney Frank Walker, Real Talk, Real Experience,
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Real Results, Frank Walker, Law dot Com. Let that conversation
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  Speaker 2: begin on Let's Talk.
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  Speaker 3: All right, ladies and gentlemen, this is Carl Lee with
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  Speaker 3: Let's Talk. I have in the building, Lisa Odie Hello,
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  Speaker 3: and Hollis Lewis as my co host, and I have
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  Speaker 3: we have a guest today that I'm gonna before I
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  Speaker 3: even get into any parts of his bio, it is,
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  Speaker 3: it is extensive, but I want to give a personal
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  Speaker 3: to me and him. He coached me my last season
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  Speaker 3: with the Vikings, and one of the things that I
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  Speaker 3: can remember him saying, maybe it's not verbatim, but it'll
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  Speaker 3: be close.
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  Speaker 4: We were talking. Tony Dungee was the decordinator.
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  Speaker 3: And he had had the whole defense in the meeting
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  Speaker 3: and was saying all these different things and all of that,
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  Speaker 3: and I don't know if coach was a little upset.
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  Speaker 3: But when we stepped into the room with just the DB's,
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  Speaker 3: he made football, professional football a reality by just simply
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  Speaker 3: saying his belief was he has to do his job
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  Speaker 3: in order for him to be there. If we want
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  Speaker 3: to be on the vikings, if we want to play,
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  Speaker 3: we have.
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  Speaker 4: To do our best.
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  Speaker 3: He's going to do his best to to coach us
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  Speaker 3: as well as we can, as well as he can,
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  Speaker 3: and we have to play as hard as we can
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  Speaker 3: in order for us to stay. So he made you
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  Speaker 3: look at it from a whole different perspective of like.
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  Speaker 4: You are accountable for your career.
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  Speaker 5: And I love that.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know how a lot.
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  Speaker 6: Of I don't know this say this. This wonderful coach's name.
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  Speaker 3: Willie Shaw, all right, and and and his son. Everybody's
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  Speaker 3: probably heard of his son. He's great, great, great coach.
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  Speaker 3: And what's your son's first name? I forgot, I'm I'm sorry,
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  Speaker 3: coach David. Yes, and he is he's he's climbing, he's
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  Speaker 3: climbing the ladder man.
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  Speaker 7: Well, yeah, he's. He was twelve years a head coach
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  Speaker 7: at Stamford's University. He was he's a winning This coach
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  Speaker 7: in the history of Stanford passed up Pop Warner, he
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  Speaker 7: went to three Rolls Balls. He was coaching the Year
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  Speaker 7: in the PAC twelve four times, and the Bobby Dodd
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  Speaker 7: coached the Year in nationally.
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  Speaker 4: Well cause you I don't want to you again.
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  Speaker 5: Coach.
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  Speaker 3: You coached for thirty three years and that's including high
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  Speaker 3: school and college, and you were at Stamford, Long Beach State, Oregon.
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  Speaker 4: Arizona State, you coached in the league.
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  Speaker 3: You coached with the Lions, and you came to the
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  Speaker 3: Vikings in ninety two and ninety three, and then you
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  Speaker 3: also coached with the Chargers, Saint Louis Saints Raiders, Chiefs, and.
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  Speaker 4: The Vikings again.
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  Speaker 3: Uh huh yeah, wow, Coach, that's a that I mean,
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  Speaker 3: that's that is an amazing thing. And I just want
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  Speaker 3: to say, I just want like to try to even
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  Speaker 3: make sense of the number of teams that you coached.
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  Speaker 3: You coached the same position and that was the dB
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  Speaker 3: and that was that was That's what I learned from you.
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  Speaker 4: And I want to make it notable that you were probably.
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  Speaker 3: One of the most impactful coaches for me in one
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  Speaker 3: year and I thank you for that.
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  Speaker 7: I you know what, I'm proud of all the guys
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  Speaker 7: I coached. I coached, so I was around so many
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  Speaker 7: places and so long. I'm almost mister irreverent because I
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  Speaker 7: was way out there, you know, I was. I was
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  Speaker 7: going to another team one time and a reporter stopped me.
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  Speaker 7: And when I got there, and he's he was interviewing
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  Speaker 7: me about coming to the new team, and everybody's excited
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  Speaker 7: because everywhere you go the defense gets better. And he
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  Speaker 7: said something to me, He said, how much did you
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  Speaker 7: learn from the older coaches in the in the NFL?
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  Speaker 7: I said, my older coaches? Who are you talking about?
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  Speaker 7: He said, well, Danny Green and Tony Dundee. I said, well,
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  Speaker 7: you know what, when I was coming back after spending
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  Speaker 7: the year in Vietnam, Denny Green was just going into
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  Speaker 7: high school in ninth grade, and Tony June was eleven
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  Speaker 7: years old and great school. So what old the coaches
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  Speaker 7: are you talking about. I'll give you. I'll give you
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  Speaker 7: a back that people kind of forgot that. I remember
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  Speaker 7: in nineteen seventy six, when I was coaching the defensive
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  Speaker 7: backs at Stanford University. We were getting ready to play
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  Speaker 7: the University of Washington, and in our preparation, we were
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  Speaker 7: watching them play the team that they were playing US
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  Speaker 7: the week before. The starting quarterback at the University of
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  Speaker 7: Washington when I was coaching the defensive back to Stanford
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  Speaker 7: was Warren Moon.
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  Speaker 5: Wow.
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  Speaker 7: And the team they were playing the week before US
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  Speaker 7: was the Minnesota Gophers.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 7: The starting quarterback and the Minnesota Gophers was Tony Dundee.
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  Speaker 4: Wow.
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  Speaker 7: And it made a big deal out of it because
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  Speaker 7: it's the first time in the history of major college
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  Speaker 7: football the two starting quarterbacks facing each other with Black.
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  Speaker 5: Wow.
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  Speaker 4: Pretty cool.
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  Speaker 7: Now, Washington beat Minnesota twenty four to seven because they
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  Speaker 7: were Minnesota wasn't very good. Tony was okay, but Minnesota.
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  Speaker 7: So next week we beat Washington with warn Moon thirty
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  Speaker 7: four to twenty eight. You know, a lot of around
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  Speaker 7: my players said, Coach, you ought to write a book
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  Speaker 7: because most of the things that's happened in college football
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  Speaker 7: and NFL the last sixty years I was either involved
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  Speaker 7: with or know something about.
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  Speaker 4: Write it bout. Yeah, I don't.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know how, coach, you haven't already dived into that.
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  Speaker 7: I can get your firm made. In the conversation you
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  Speaker 7: and I had that you're talking about, I had an
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  Speaker 7: advantage on you, Carl, that that people don't realize that
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  Speaker 7: I coaches realized I knew you a lot better than
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  Speaker 7: you knew me. Okay, okay, because when you were playing,
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  Speaker 7: when you were playing for the for the for the
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  Speaker 7: Minnesota Vikings, I was coaching defensive backs for the Detroit Lions.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, I saw that study.
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  Speaker 7: You find a chance to study you, and I knew
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  Speaker 7: what you do well. You always get back look at
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  Speaker 7: backgrounds of players that that that you're coaching against at
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  Speaker 7: that play, that plan at your position that you coach for.
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  Speaker 7: For main reason in the NFL, I knew this. I
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  Speaker 7: tell my players keep a book on every receiver because
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  Speaker 7: you so that you know, keep writing something down about
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  Speaker 7: every receiver you coach against. And I was talking Eric
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  Speaker 7: Gallen one day because I coached Eric Gallen in Minnesota,
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  Speaker 7: I mean, no, coach Eric Gallen at the Saints and
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  Speaker 7: the Open Raiders, and I recruit him out of high
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  Speaker 7: school out Sanday and coaching at Arizona State also, And
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  Speaker 7: so after after practice at the end of the week,
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  Speaker 7: I looked at it. I said, Okay, at least see
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  Speaker 7: what you wrote down the players that you're getting ready play.
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  Speaker 7: He told me what he wrote, and I said, what
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  Speaker 7: about the players we're playing. He said, what do you
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  Speaker 7: mean we're practice again? I said, all these receivers on
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  Speaker 7: this field, you don't know if you're going to be
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  Speaker 7: playing against them next year.
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  Speaker 4: M fact. Yeah.
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  Speaker 7: So when I when I was coaching defensive back in
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  Speaker 7: the nash Football League, I always studied the defensive back
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  Speaker 7: and the teams who were playing because I didn't know
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  Speaker 7: if I was going to be coaching them next year.
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  Speaker 7: That's how I got to know you. And let me
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  Speaker 7: tell you made them. But I told you after that meeting.
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  Speaker 7: I knew that Tony Donkey was his own player. That's
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  Speaker 7: all you know. That covered two there was this was
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  Speaker 7: the cover team. Knew the most. And I knew you
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  Speaker 7: were a bumping run man player. So I know things
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  Speaker 7: in your world we're gonna we're gonna change really quickly.
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  Speaker 7: And you and I. The conversation I had with you was,
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  Speaker 7: I said you have a career. First, I said, you're
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  Speaker 7: gonna have to start playing some Maroni places, don't He said, well,
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  Speaker 7: I'm a bumping run man lunch is what I do.
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  Speaker 5: So that.
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  Speaker 7: Didn't. Here's what I knew about coaching the NFL. You
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  Speaker 7: don't fight a veteran. You work with him and and
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  Speaker 7: you try to get him to understand where he's at.
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  Speaker 7: Here's what I told you. I said, I have a
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  Speaker 7: career because you got a little bigness. When I said,
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  Speaker 7: you're gonna have to less, I'm not gonna get cut.
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  Speaker 7: I almost got cut from I said to you, as
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  Speaker 7: you have a big career and I have a career,
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  Speaker 7: I'm not going to step on your career to advance mine,
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  Speaker 7: and I'm not gonna let you step on mind to
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  Speaker 7: advance yours. You working together will accomplish far more than
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  Speaker 7: either one of us will ever accomplish working the part.
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  Speaker 7: That's what I told you.
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  Speaker 4: That's great.
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  Speaker 6: Hey, Hey, coach, I'm gonna take you back just a
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  Speaker 6: moment ago. You mentioned serving in the Vietnam War.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you for your service.
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  Speaker 6: You served in the US Air Force after you graduated
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  Speaker 6: from Lincoln High School in San Diego, and then you
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  Speaker 6: rose to the rank of a sergeant in Vietnam War.
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  Speaker 6: So how did those those experiences shape your coaching style?
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  Speaker 6: You know in your future situations.
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  Speaker 7: There's three things that put me far in advance ahead
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  Speaker 7: of any other folks I've ever seen and on especially
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  Speaker 7: from the NFL. Number one, you're right. I was a
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  Speaker 7: sergeant Reach and in the military. To reach sergeant, they
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  Speaker 7: sent me to two outstanding leadership schools and I learned command.
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  Speaker 7: The other thing about my my military service, I was
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  Speaker 7: in I was in Vietnam in nineteen sixty five. Matter
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  Speaker 7: of fact, I'm i'm, I'm, I'm in my veteran service.
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  Speaker 7: I'm one hundred percent disabled from Masian Orange and PTSD.
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  Speaker 7: People don't know that. I said, a lot of people
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  Speaker 7: were involved in a lot of young young people getting killed,
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  Speaker 7: women and children thousand sevens and when I did, I
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  Speaker 7: was the first black military person to go to an
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  Speaker 7: electronic school in SNeW the Air Force Base in Illinois,
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  Speaker 7: one of the best electronics schools in the world because
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  Speaker 7: I was going to be working on an airplane that
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  Speaker 7: was brand new. First ever fight at Bamba because one
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  Speaker 7: O five thunder two.
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  Speaker 4: So that's that's quite the feat. That's amazing.
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  Speaker 7: So learn command in these leadership schools help help me
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  Speaker 7: figure out how to work with with young men coming
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  Speaker 7: from all different directions, get them in a situation where
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  Speaker 7: they're in a fighting mode and getting ready to go.
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  Speaker 7: The difference between that and NFL we were getting ready
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  Speaker 7: to make sure we didn't get killed. And the NFL,
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  Speaker 7: you're just trying to make that you went to win
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  Speaker 7: and lose the game. Other things, other things that helped me. Now,
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  Speaker 7: I never did anything in my life to be a coach.
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  Speaker 7: I bet every day when I was getting on my parade,
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  Speaker 7: just to God, just let me get home, because I
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  Speaker 7: want to be a school teacher. Just let me get home.
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  Speaker 7: I want to be a school too. So I got
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  Speaker 7: back and I got home. Being a in classroom school
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  Speaker 7: teacher helped me be a football coach too. And I
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  Speaker 7: still hadn't decided to be I was going to be
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  Speaker 7: a football coach. I was teaching eighth grade math science
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  Speaker 7: at Belgian High School in San Diego, and one of
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  Speaker 7: my duties that I had assigned to me was coaching
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  Speaker 7: eighth grade football after school. So that's where I started.
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  Speaker 7: That's where you started, and my age and I was there.
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  Speaker 3: And I.
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  Speaker 7: Wanted to be a school teacher. And I'm in and
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  Speaker 7: first time, this is my first full time teaching job,
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  Speaker 7: and I'm bouncing around that classroom. In the first test,
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  Speaker 7: I gave forty five percent of the students failed. I
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  Speaker 7: was hard. I was hard. I'm figuring what I had.
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  Speaker 4: Coach. I'm thinking I'm failing that test too.
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  Speaker 7: Here's one. Here's what I took me three days to
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  Speaker 7: figure it out. I was so excited about coaching. I
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  Speaker 7: was bouncing around that classroom, bunching burners and all that.
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  Speaker 7: And here's what I figured out. I was making it
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  Speaker 7: all about me. They don't build schools for teachers, they're
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  Speaker 7: building for students. And once I figured that out and
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  Speaker 7: made it all about the students, then I became a
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  Speaker 7: very good teacher. And it applied over to the NFL too.
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  Speaker 7: I'm the only assistant black coach to speak at an
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  Speaker 7: owners meeting and at Atlanta, and but Taglee bu set
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  Speaker 7: it up. I'm the only black coach to speak at
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  Speaker 7: an owners meeting, and it was in Atlanta, and I
• 13:35
  Speaker 7: had to send them a something about what I was
• 13:39
  Speaker 7: going to talk about, an outlined before I could before
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: get they wanted to know what was gonna talk about.
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  Speaker 7: So I made up made it outline. And the seventh
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  Speaker 7: thing on that outline was it's a players league. Now,
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  Speaker 7: this is nice football league. It's a players league. All
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  Speaker 7: the coach, all the head coaches are all they they
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  Speaker 7: go to the owners meetings about eight and nine of
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  Speaker 7: them came to me that morning and said, what what
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: is this about this players League? I said, well, it's
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: it's on my I'm here now I'm going to talk.
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  Speaker 7: I'll let you know when i'm talking. You'll find out.
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  Speaker 7: M Okay when I when I got well, I'm going
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  Speaker 7: to Vietnam. So any day I'll say anything.
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  Speaker 5: I want.
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  Speaker 7: At Open Hearts because the agent or so when we
• 14:25
  Speaker 7: got the number seven, I said, I don't expect to
• 14:30
  Speaker 7: come out here on any Sunday afternoon and have any
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  Speaker 7: any of the people go up to the ticket window
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  Speaker 7: and say give me a ticket. I want to see
• 14:36
  Speaker 7: will Shaw coach. They come to see the players play.
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  Speaker 7: And it's just like when I was coaching or teaching
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  Speaker 7: in that school. They don't build stadiums for coaches. They
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: build them for the players. And a lot of head
• 14:48
  Speaker 7: coaches didn't like that because they were there, they were
• 14:50
  Speaker 7: thinking it was a coaches league. They really do, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 7: I was telling them, hey, there's no player in the
• 14:58
  Speaker 7: Nation Football League that got here because of coaches. They
• 15:00
  Speaker 7: got here because they have the God given the ability
• 15:02
  Speaker 7: to play the play the game. And on Sunday afternoon,
• 15:05
  Speaker 7: when they step across that white line. It's our job
• 15:09
  Speaker 7: to make sure that they are the best that they
• 15:11
  Speaker 7: can be with the talent they have. Because we don't play,
• 15:14
  Speaker 7: we don't cross the white line on Sunday. They do.
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  Speaker 7: And anytime we get anything farther than that, then we're wrong.
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  Speaker 7: Then we're wrong. And that's what I'm saying. I was
• 15:23
  Speaker 7: an educator, I wasn't just a coach. Exus and O.
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  Speaker 7: I sell my players all the time. This little boy's
• 15:31
  Speaker 7: game is only gonna last at the most five to
• 15:33
  Speaker 7: ten years. What are you gonna be doing for the
• 15:35
  Speaker 7: next fifty years. What kind of person you're gonna be,
• 15:38
  Speaker 7: What kind of person you're gonna be, What kind of
• 15:40
  Speaker 7: father are you gonna be, What kind of husband you're
• 15:41
  Speaker 7: gonna be. What are you gonna be doing fifty years
• 15:43
  Speaker 7: from now? If you don't have that degree because you
• 15:45
  Speaker 7: left school early, go back and get that degree, because
• 15:47
  Speaker 7: that's what's gonna really determine your life the next fifty years.
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  Speaker 3: Coach when you and I don't know if you do,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: but if you're around coaches today, whether it be I
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: don't know, high school, college, pro do you actually see
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: that being a transition or do you think it's still
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: something that these coaches still have to learn.
• 16:14
  Speaker 7: Oh, it hadn't changed. Like I just said, it's still
• 16:17
  Speaker 7: a little boys game. Uh, someone is telling me. A
• 16:21
  Speaker 7: couple of I did a speaking thing about two weeks
• 16:23
  Speaker 7: ago up at Stanford University, and they were saying that
• 16:31
  Speaker 7: it's changed, and you know, I said, no, no, no, no.
• 16:34
  Speaker 7: They said, I coached youth and five levels I coached
• 16:39
  Speaker 7: on that they found I coached them youth football in
• 16:42
  Speaker 7: the eighth grade. I coached high school football for my
• 16:45
  Speaker 7: head coach at Stanford University. When I was for that,
• 16:47
  Speaker 7: I played for. I coached at San Diego High School,
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: I coached, I coached San Diego City College of Junior College.
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: I coached five major colleges and eight NFL teams. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 7: here's what I told her. That person I was on
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: the panel with two weeks ago, because she was coaching
• 17:02
  Speaker 7: youth football. She said, well, there's so much difference between
• 17:06
  Speaker 7: youth you guys in the NFL. Coach. I said, no,
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: it's not. It's still just a little boy's game. And
• 17:11
  Speaker 7: I can see it in their eyes. It's not much
• 17:13
  Speaker 7: different between that five year old and that twenty five
• 17:16
  Speaker 7: year old. If you reach him in the right place
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  Speaker 7: if because it's still a little boy's game and they
• 17:22
  Speaker 7: still have that little boy inside of them. The problem
• 17:24
  Speaker 7: is is to get him to realize that it's it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 7: still a team sport, and the most important thing about
• 17:35
  Speaker 7: that is to get him to get involved in that.
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: And I've heard call say something about this before, but
• 17:41
  Speaker 7: here's what it is. We all spent our early life
• 17:45
  Speaker 7: getting ready to be independent. We all want to be independent,
• 17:48
  Speaker 7: grown up doing what I want to do. But if
• 17:52
  Speaker 7: you're in a team sport, the most important thing you
• 17:54
  Speaker 7: got to do is give up some of that independence
• 17:57
  Speaker 7: and get to this bigger word with this interdependent. This
• 18:01
  Speaker 7: us a group of people working together for a common goal.
• 18:04
  Speaker 7: That's what it is. It's a group of and you
• 18:06
  Speaker 7: got to give up. You got to give up some
• 18:08
  Speaker 7: of that independence to be a part. And it's called interdependence. Well,
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: you depend on the next guy for your success.
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  Speaker 5: I did.
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  Speaker 7: I read a book one time by the psychologist. He said,
• 18:19
  Speaker 7: you will be on at least thirty five teams in
• 18:23
  Speaker 7: your lifetime. And what you say is this man's psychic
• 18:29
  Speaker 7: is built on the team concept. Man wouldn't have made it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 7: An early man wouldn't made it because he wasn't the biggest,
• 18:35
  Speaker 7: the strongest, the fastest, the longest teeth of longest clause.
• 18:38
  Speaker 7: He only survived because of a team concept, a group
• 18:42
  Speaker 7: of people working together for a common goal. And first,
• 18:46
  Speaker 7: the first one you're on is your family, a group
• 18:50
  Speaker 7: of people working together for a common goal. He's learned
• 18:53
  Speaker 7: to work within that framework of that team. And then
• 18:55
  Speaker 7: the leadership of that team is your parents in there.
• 19:01
  Speaker 7: What you learn about that is one day you're going
• 19:03
  Speaker 7: to be the leader. You're going to be parents. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 7: so what you learned from being in that team concept
• 19:07
  Speaker 7: and from leadership from your family is what you're going
• 19:10
  Speaker 7: to be when you become the leader of your family.
• 19:13
  Speaker 7: And the next one is your school you go to
• 19:15
  Speaker 7: or the job you have. It's all a people in
• 19:17
  Speaker 7: this country is built on a team concept, a group
• 19:20
  Speaker 7: of people working together for a coming goal.
• 19:23
  Speaker 8: That's great advice. I like how you framed that in
• 19:25
  Speaker 8: the context of team throughout your life. So you mentioned
• 19:30
  Speaker 8: you started your football coaching career as an eighth grade
• 19:34
  Speaker 8: football coach. What was the next stop after that and
• 19:37
  Speaker 8: how did you make your way to the NFL?
• 19:39
  Speaker 7: Well, you know what, Marcus Allen, Eric Allen and Terrell Davis.
• 19:44
  Speaker 7: They're all out of my neighborhood. They're awning a cot
• 19:47
  Speaker 7: Football Hall of Fame.
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 19:48
  Speaker 7: Man, it's like Marcus Allen and Torol David and now
• 19:52
  Speaker 7: I was the older guy in that neighborhood, me and
• 19:53
  Speaker 7: my brother. I hear from them all the time, from
• 19:55
  Speaker 7: Marcus and Toron and those guys that we watch you guys, coach,
• 19:59
  Speaker 7: because you guys are older, you and you want your
• 20:01
  Speaker 7: brother went with All American and f and coach and
• 20:03
  Speaker 7: coach a s and you went. And you were in
• 20:05
  Speaker 7: a high school All American and you went. And so
• 20:08
  Speaker 7: they watched us and uh. In February, they put on
• 20:13
  Speaker 7: they put on a two day event in my little hometown,
• 20:16
  Speaker 7: San Diego, in our neighborhood. Marcus Allen and Terrell Davis
• 20:21
  Speaker 7: and Eric Allen kept calling me, coach, you gotta be here.
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: We're gonna We're going to give a presentation to Eric
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: Allen because he just went into the prol Hall of
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: Fame and Marcus are gonna talk and and and Damon Allen,
• 20:32
  Speaker 7: who was Marcus's little brother who had won five breaks
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: ups in Canada quarterback. I was gonna get wards and
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: we want you to be there. You got to be
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: there coaches, you know. So I finally decided, okay, I'm
• 20:44
  Speaker 7: gonna go a little older. And I was having a
• 20:46
  Speaker 7: health problem at the time. It turned eighty two in February,
• 20:49
  Speaker 7: but anyway, I said, okay, I'm coming. So I get
• 20:51
  Speaker 7: on there and I'm not having a good time with
• 20:54
  Speaker 7: the guys in the neighborhood. A couple of guys that
• 20:56
  Speaker 7: coached at Detroit and you know, uh recruited guys at
• 20:59
  Speaker 7: Stanford and the State. They're all there. One of the
• 21:02
  Speaker 7: guys that comes up to me and said, coach remember me.
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: I looked at him, said, man, you're you're col Steele.
• 21:09
  Speaker 7: He was one of the eighth graders that I coached.
• 21:11
  Speaker 7: Had built Junior High School, had a couple of guys,
• 21:14
  Speaker 7: and now the next stop after that was San Diego
• 21:16
  Speaker 7: High School. About four of the guys that were on
• 21:18
  Speaker 7: that high school team at San Diego High School, I
• 21:21
  Speaker 7: was there too. After that, I would want to cross
• 21:24
  Speaker 7: the street to San Diego City College, where I coached
• 21:27
  Speaker 7: for three years for Harry West and then from from
• 21:30
  Speaker 7: there I went to Stanford University the first time in
• 21:33
  Speaker 7: nineteen seventy four, and then Lombee State, University of Oregon,
• 21:39
  Speaker 7: Arizona State, Stanford the second time, then in the NFL.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: So coach, I wanted to talk about your second stint
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: at Stanford. I did some research today and if if
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: I'm not correct, please please correct me.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Feel free too.
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: But it seems like you were a finalist for the
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: head coaching position in nineteen ninety two that eventually eventually
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: went to Bill Walsh. Did you view that as as
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: a setback to your career at that time or was
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: it a stepping stone better opportunities go.
• 22:14
  Speaker 7: I'm sorry I don't talk a lot about this, but
• 22:17
  Speaker 7: you know what, the only reason I went back to
• 22:19
  Speaker 7: Stamford I was at the Detroit Lions and Denny Green,
• 22:22
  Speaker 7: who I met when he was a young coach. Denny
• 22:25
  Speaker 7: is about seven eight years younger than me. I met
• 22:28
  Speaker 7: him when I was a young coach. When I when
• 22:29
  Speaker 7: I was leaving Stamford the first time, Denny was just
• 22:32
  Speaker 7: coming to Stanford and he'd been coaching for two years
• 22:35
  Speaker 7: at University Iowa. One year he was a grab assistant,
• 22:38
  Speaker 7: next year he he was a full time coach at
• 22:42
  Speaker 7: Iowa and he and then he got an assistant job
• 22:46
  Speaker 7: at Stanford. When I was leaving Stanford, Denny was just
• 22:49
  Speaker 7: coming there. It was an old building, an old wooden staircase,
• 22:53
  Speaker 7: and you had it landing. And I'm bringing my stuff down,
• 22:57
  Speaker 7: packing my stuff up to leave, and he's bringing his
• 22:59
  Speaker 7: stuff up to steam and he came bouncing. He was
• 23:01
  Speaker 7: running back in iowam. He came bouncing up the stairs
• 23:04
  Speaker 7: and we got on that land and he looked at
• 23:05
  Speaker 7: me and he says, you Willie Shawl. I said, hey,
• 23:08
  Speaker 7: I am. He said hi, my name is Denny Green. Well.
• 23:11
  Speaker 7: That's our first meeting. And he said are you are
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: you busy? I said no, let me finish. He said,
• 23:17
  Speaker 7: can you talk to me for a little bit. He
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: had never been to California, he'd never really had to
• 23:21
  Speaker 7: stand having so he just wanted to talk to me
• 23:23
  Speaker 7: about California and Stanford. Well, when I was up the
• 23:26
  Speaker 7: Detroit Lions and I went, he got the head job
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: at Stanford and he called me, and man's fight right up.
• 23:39
  Speaker 7: He called me terrry Downalds. You called me and wanted
• 23:40
  Speaker 7: me to come. What I know, if I wanted to
• 23:42
  Speaker 7: come to your sie, I know I want to go
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: to but Denny, I said, Denny I'm I'm you know,
• 23:46
  Speaker 7: I'm not. I'm not leaving the NFL. I'm I'm on
• 23:49
  Speaker 7: my way to the Pro Bowls and down in Mobile.
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: And he says, Willy, you need to come here. You
• 23:56
  Speaker 7: need me. They still talk about you here. I'm still I'm.
• 24:00
  Speaker 7: I'm still in dowted. Somebody sends in a million dollars
• 24:02
  Speaker 7: a year to keep me in dowed at Stanford. So
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: the Stanford the Stanford defensive coordinator's job. It's called the
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: Willie Shaw defensive coordinator job. My name is still on
• 24:13
  Speaker 7: the above the door.
• 24:14
  Speaker 4: Brilli.
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: Well, he tells me, and I don't know who it
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: is because they won't tell me. I want to thank
• 24:19
  Speaker 7: the guy. But he sends a million dollars a year
• 24:21
  Speaker 7: to keep me in doubt at Stamford. So I said, no, Danny,
• 24:25
  Speaker 7: I'm not coming back to college. You know I'm in
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: the NFL now, I'm not coming back. So I get
• 24:30
  Speaker 7: I'll get to New Orleans and I'm changing plans to
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: go to Mobile and that little white phone rings and
• 24:34
  Speaker 7: they paid they call me. I go and it's Danny Green.
• 24:39
  Speaker 7: He said, Willie, you kind of He says you need
• 24:41
  Speaker 7: to come here. I said no, Denny, I told you
• 24:43
  Speaker 7: I'm not coming. He says, Willie, you should be a coordinator.
• 24:46
  Speaker 7: Everybody knows you should be a coordinator. And all you
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: need is an opportunity. And all I'm doing is give
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: you a chance to be an opportunity. For it's an
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: opportunity at Stanford. I said, well, he said, I have
• 24:56
  Speaker 7: a flight for you to San Francisco. I'll pick you up.
• 24:58
  Speaker 7: We'll talk all night. I'll have you're back on the plane.
• 25:00
  Speaker 7: You won't miss nothing. You can be back to Mobile tomorrow.
• 25:03
  Speaker 7: I said, okay. So I go to Stanford and we
• 25:06
  Speaker 7: talk all night, like you said, and he convinces me
• 25:09
  Speaker 7: that I should come and have an opportunity to be
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: a coordinator. I had to take a thirty six thousand
• 25:15
  Speaker 7: dollars cutting pay to come back to Stanford. You do
• 25:18
  Speaker 7: what you have to do for your career. So at
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: the time, Stanford had been in the top the bottom
• 25:25
  Speaker 7: ten Told Defense every year for six years. I do
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: go back to Stamford the second time. Within two years,
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: we're in the top ten of Told Defense and I
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: go back in the NFL and I'm a coordinator four times.
• 25:38
  Speaker 7: But anyway, at the end.
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: Of that.
• 25:42
  Speaker 7: End of that when Denny leaves to go to the
• 25:45
  Speaker 7: minister to Minnesota. I'm in it. I'm they want me.
• 25:49
  Speaker 7: I enteredview. I'll be five h panels, Give me five panels.
• 25:54
  Speaker 7: Condlica Rice was on one of the professors, and me
• 25:56
  Speaker 7: and Connie were real close. Matter of fact, when I
• 25:59
  Speaker 7: when I got the job, after these five and meeting
• 26:02
  Speaker 7: with President Kennedy on for lunch on Tuesday, and I
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: got the job, he said, Conde Lisa, every all the
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: other candidates, you had this yellow notepad and she used
• 26:12
  Speaker 7: to write. He said, everyone of them went another folder
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: and he said there was seven or eight pages of
• 26:17
  Speaker 7: notes on what they were talking about. She said. He said,
• 26:20
  Speaker 7: when I opened up you another folder, Condy had wrote
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: one word dynamic underline it. And she said she didn't.
• 26:29
  Speaker 7: She just listened to me. So, okay, I got the job.
• 26:32
  Speaker 7: Me and the president go over my contract. All all
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: universities have they set them out. They sit they for
• 26:40
  Speaker 7: head coach. So we go over my contract and he said,
• 26:44
  Speaker 7: get your agent. You're gonna have a press conference tomorrow
• 26:49
  Speaker 7: and at noon you'll meet with the that's only directed
• 26:51
  Speaker 7: in the morning, and then you'll meet with the team
• 26:53
  Speaker 7: and that new at eleven at noon, you have a
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: press conference. So I come the next morning after talking
• 26:58
  Speaker 7: to my agent, going over to the com track. I'm
• 27:00
  Speaker 7: gonna signing with that RELI director. So I go down there.
• 27:03
  Speaker 7: So he's not there, so I go back and come back.
• 27:07
  Speaker 7: Twenty minutes later. He's in his office. He said, we've
• 27:09
  Speaker 7: decided to go another direction. I said, okay. I go
• 27:14
  Speaker 7: up to my office and I'm a little disappointed. I'm
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: a lot disappointed. But then then about were in there
• 27:21
  Speaker 7: about thirty five or forty minutes. I had three offers
• 27:24
  Speaker 7: to go to the NFL teams, and I wound up
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: going with Danny to Minnesota.
• 27:29
  Speaker 8: But anyway, one of them myself, So you actually got
• 27:33
  Speaker 8: the job, and then they like reneged on the job.
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: Hey, yes, let me tell you that happened to me
• 27:40
  Speaker 7: in the NFL too. I was so far ahead that
• 27:42
  Speaker 7: I don't think people were ready for a black head
• 27:44
  Speaker 7: coach at the because I was, well, let me tell
• 27:48
  Speaker 7: you this. First, I'm up in my office and I'm
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: making some phone calls and I talked to Danny, said Denny,
• 27:55
  Speaker 7: he said, well, you got the job here, and I
• 27:57
  Speaker 7: had a couple other offers the press. They sent out
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: the press notice the night before. There's for the press conference.
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: They said, Willie Shaw's press conference. That's where. That's what
• 28:09
  Speaker 7: they sent out the night before, Willi Shaw's press conference.
• 28:13
  Speaker 7: But they get there and I'm not. I'm not it's
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: not my press conference. I'm not there. Now this is
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: the biggest story then Bill wats getting the job. So
• 28:22
  Speaker 7: they come looking for me because this is a big
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: judge state because the press conference didn't say, I mean,
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: the press notice didn't say Bill Walston said Willie Shaw's
• 28:30
  Speaker 7: press conference. So I when I'm leaving my office, they're
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: all out there. It's about fifteen twenty reporters out there
• 28:37
  Speaker 7: waiting for me to find out what the heck happened.
• 28:40
  Speaker 7: Now I sit there. I was the first black coaches
• 28:43
  Speaker 7: Stamford Universe, first full time black coach stamp for university.
• 28:46
  Speaker 7: I first full time black coach at University of Oregon also,
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: and a couple other NFL teams being coordinators and things
• 28:52
  Speaker 7: like that. But anyway, I'm sitting there now I know
• 28:56
  Speaker 7: I was the first. I got told you I was
• 28:57
  Speaker 7: the first airmen to go to that electronic school. I
• 29:01
  Speaker 7: was the first because I was older and we were
• 29:03
  Speaker 7: just getting into football because of the end, because of
• 29:07
  Speaker 7: the NAACP is the reason they start hiring black coaches
• 29:11
  Speaker 7: at major colleges. That's what helped me get my first job.
• 29:14
  Speaker 7: So I'm sitting there and I know, I know there's
• 29:19
  Speaker 7: all the young black men behind me. Depends on how
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: I do. I can play the race card. I can
• 29:27
  Speaker 7: say they stab me in the back. I can. I
• 29:30
  Speaker 7: can say anything I want because I'm never going to
• 29:32
  Speaker 7: coach college football again. That's what I'm saying. I'm going
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: back in the NFL. But that will not help because
• 29:39
  Speaker 7: you get, oh yeah, see how they are. That's why
• 29:41
  Speaker 7: we don't want to be there. That's right, right, There's
• 29:44
  Speaker 7: two sides of that coin. One side they want you
• 29:46
  Speaker 7: to succeed because it's new. The other side they don't
• 29:49
  Speaker 7: want to see not because they know me personally, it's
• 29:52
  Speaker 7: because a lot of people are hard to go away
• 29:54
  Speaker 7: from the north. Why do we want to go why
• 29:56
  Speaker 7: do we we're all okay, why do we need to
• 29:58
  Speaker 7: do this? But anyway, I'm sitting that thinking and I
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: have to tell them something. Yeah. So I had to
• 30:06
  Speaker 7: sit there quietly for about twenty minutes, and when I
• 30:08
  Speaker 7: opened the door, what happened. Coach would happened? What's what's happened?
• 30:12
  Speaker 7: I said, wait a minute. If I had a choice
• 30:15
  Speaker 7: between me and Bill Walsh, with all his accomplishments, I
• 30:19
  Speaker 7: would choose Bill watsh too. I took the high road
• 30:20
  Speaker 7: and I went, do you think my son would ever
• 30:22
  Speaker 7: been the head coach of Stanford University if I had
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: have went another way?
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: Long again? Yeah, yeah, see I wasn't even putting that
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: with it.
• 30:32
  Speaker 7: But you think of the hundreds of black men behind
• 30:35
  Speaker 7: me who are trying to get to where I am.
• 30:37
  Speaker 7: That would hurt them if I They're looking for anything
• 30:41
  Speaker 7: when you're the first. So I wouldn't volunteer to be
• 30:43
  Speaker 7: first because it's hard. You got a tough enough job
• 30:46
  Speaker 7: being the best you can without the other roadblocks and
• 30:49
  Speaker 7: other things. But when you get tapped, when you get
• 30:52
  Speaker 7: thrown into that situation, you have to have in mind
• 30:55
  Speaker 7: what didn't tell and you know what?
• 30:57
  Speaker 8: Because I'm in that positionrently, and I have been in
• 31:01
  Speaker 8: that position in my you know, and in my career
• 31:03
  Speaker 8: and my jobs, and I think sometimes that people on
• 31:08
  Speaker 8: the outside they don't understand that part of it that
• 31:12
  Speaker 8: you know. And again this is applicable to if you're
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: a woman, whatever, that you have to have a certain
• 31:18
  Speaker 8: tact if you are to, you know, assume the position.
• 31:22
  Speaker 8: And if you are have the mind that you know
• 31:25
  Speaker 8: there's going to be others following behind you. So and
• 31:30
  Speaker 8: and a lot of times people just don't get why
• 31:32
  Speaker 8: you have to operate in a certain manner and that situation.
• 31:36
  Speaker 7: I just show you happened to be over and head
• 31:38
  Speaker 7: coach of an NFL team for two.
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: Days, coach, and so back to me and okay.
• 31:56
  Speaker 7: Oh was that Detroit when you were and we played
• 31:58
  Speaker 7: each other twice separate seven? I was a strike here.
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: We didn't play you guys, Yeah much, I remember strike
• 32:03
  Speaker 7: he we didn't play it. I was you telling me
• 32:07
  Speaker 7: something about your head coach, I mean, your your your
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: position coach. I'm think one year we were talking.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: Oh I can't even remember what his name. It was
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: after Pete or Orbit.
• 32:20
  Speaker 7: No, no, no, it's Pete.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: It was Pete.
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, okay, because when Pete was coaching defensive backs
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: in Detroit, I mean at Minnesota, I was coaching defensive
• 32:30
  Speaker 7: backs at the Lions. So let me tell you about
• 32:33
  Speaker 7: now anything on the West Coast with college football and
• 32:36
  Speaker 7: most of that, like I said, the last fifty or
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: six years. I first heard Pete Carroll's name when I
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: was at stamp Ford. His his head coach at at
• 32:45
  Speaker 7: University of Pacific was Chester Catus. And because Pete Carroll
• 32:53
  Speaker 7: went to junior college, not I coached in junior college
• 32:55
  Speaker 7: Pete Carroll, So I know I was up on the
• 32:57
  Speaker 7: junior college and Pete Carroll was the was played there
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: a marine junior college. And then he went to University
• 33:03
  Speaker 7: of Pacific, which is about about an hour drive from
• 33:06
  Speaker 7: a smaller school that Stafford. That's about an hour's drive
• 33:09
  Speaker 7: from from Stanford. Chester Tatus when I was at Stanford,
• 33:13
  Speaker 7: brought his brought his staff over to staffs meet and
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: talk about different things. And there were small school and
• 33:19
  Speaker 7: the so they came over to talk to us about
• 33:22
  Speaker 7: uh our, you know the coaches get together. Brought some
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: members of his staff over. Now he didn't bring Pete
• 33:28
  Speaker 7: because Pete was a graduate assistant there. He just stopped
• 33:31
  Speaker 7: playing and uh so I was visiting with his position coach,
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: different specual coach. So he told me about Pete call.
• 33:40
  Speaker 7: Pete had intercepted twelve years twelve interceptions formed as a senior.
• 33:45
  Speaker 7: So there he was all excited that he had decided
• 33:47
  Speaker 7: to be a coach, and he was a graduate assistant.
• 33:51
  Speaker 7: And I almost worked with Pete one time. I think
• 33:54
  Speaker 7: he was with the Jets. You got us the Jets.
• 33:57
  Speaker 7: He called me, and he should call me from time
• 33:59
  Speaker 7: to time. We got to know each other because because
• 34:01
  Speaker 7: the one day one day when we were playing but
• 34:03
  Speaker 7: the Vikings, when I was at Detroit, I mentioned to
• 34:06
  Speaker 7: him what his secondary coach had told me about him
• 34:09
  Speaker 7: when he was a player, and I said, I guess
• 34:11
  Speaker 7: your coach is right here. You're in the National Football League.
• 34:15
  Speaker 7: So we got to know each other pretty well. He
• 34:17
  Speaker 7: peats about almost seventy years younger than I have maybe
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: ken much.
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: That he was.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: He was hugely beneficial for me. And and again.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Now that I get the mix, it's funny because both
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: of he he had the same type of conversations.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: That you and I had.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Other than you know, if it was if it was
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: a little more personal as far as uh black white
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: or any anything.
• 34:53
  Speaker 7: More black black black men. Here's what I was trying
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: to tell you. I knew Tony Dungee because like I said,
• 34:58
  Speaker 7: I've known Tony Dungee. Let me tell you this. My
• 35:01
  Speaker 7: whole my whole career in the Nation FOOTB League. I
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: was the oldest black coach in the nas Football League.
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: Every black coach in the National Football League I knew.
• 35:13
  Speaker 7: I saw him, some of them play. I watched him
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: grows as young coaches. A lot of them call me
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: for advice about John's and what I call somebody for
• 35:23
  Speaker 7: arm or if I was the older black coach. There's
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: only one black coach that was the head coach at Nashville.
• 35:29
  Speaker 7: I didn't ever meet that, Chris Powell, who was a
• 35:32
  Speaker 7: head coach at Akron who Acklan had a pro team
• 35:35
  Speaker 7: at nineteen twenty one. He was the head coach. But
• 35:37
  Speaker 7: I never knew everyone else. Every one and the other ones.
• 35:40
  Speaker 7: I know all of them because I was. I was
• 35:42
  Speaker 7: the oldest black coach in the National Football League.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Wow, my whole career.
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: Hey, hey, coach Shaw. So so I came across when
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: I was doing this research today, I came across something
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: that Yale. I think it was the former Yale head
• 35:55
  Speaker 6: coach Tom Williams. I think he was there from two
• 35:58
  Speaker 6: thousand nine two thousand and eleven. He played as a
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: linebacker on your one of your Sandford teams.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: I believe.
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: And so I'm just going to paraphrase what he said
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: about your coaching style. Uh, he just recalled how much
• 36:10
  Speaker 6: you expected from your players. He said, quote, he wasn't quiet,
• 36:14
  Speaker 6: he was right in your face. So and I think
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: Carl can attest to that. So, so tell us about
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: your your techniques that you used to motivate your players
• 36:24
  Speaker 6: or maybe even correct them when they're not, you know,
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: playing up to your level.
• 36:29
  Speaker 7: Let me tell you this, I'm an educator. That's that's
• 36:33
  Speaker 7: one of the big things that helped me be a
• 36:36
  Speaker 7: good coach. I wasn't trying to be a coach. The
• 36:40
  Speaker 7: reason I went to the high school from the junior
• 36:42
  Speaker 7: high school is my my high school coach, Sam Dennison
• 36:46
  Speaker 7: called me. He was at the high school down the
• 36:49
  Speaker 7: road and he was looking for a defensive coach. And
• 36:53
  Speaker 7: so he called me and he said, hey, Willie, would
• 36:59
  Speaker 7: you would you come to the high school? We could
• 37:00
  Speaker 7: really you said, you know, when you were playing for me,
• 37:03
  Speaker 7: I knew you were going to possibly be a good coach.
• 37:05
  Speaker 7: Were smart, and you know, you were personally you you
• 37:09
  Speaker 7: were aggressive and you were intelligent. And I said no,
• 37:13
  Speaker 7: said no, coach, Sinny said, I I don't. I don't
• 37:15
  Speaker 7: want to go there. He said, why not? I said,
• 37:17
  Speaker 7: I see these high school kids because they had to
• 37:19
  Speaker 7: walk right by the junior high school to go down
• 37:20
  Speaker 7: to that high school. I said, I don't know if
• 37:22
  Speaker 7: I want to get involved with them. Guys. You know,
• 37:24
  Speaker 7: they look like I'm really happy with these junior high
• 37:26
  Speaker 7: school kids and I'm loving this. And he said something
• 37:29
  Speaker 7: to me that today I heard. He said, I can
• 37:32
  Speaker 7: get you five hundred dollars more of a release time
• 37:34
  Speaker 7: as a coach. I had a wife and two kids.
• 37:37
  Speaker 7: I said, I'll see you next letter. That's how I've
• 37:42
  Speaker 7: moved up the ladder. Here's the way I am as
• 37:48
  Speaker 7: a coach because I was an educator from from junior
• 37:51
  Speaker 7: high school all the way in the ash Football League.
• 37:53
  Speaker 7: I had a lot of athletes, but but I was
• 37:55
  Speaker 7: still a teacher and an educator. When you teach. Now,
• 37:59
  Speaker 7: if i'm if I'm if I'm a third grade teacher
• 38:02
  Speaker 7: and that third grader comes into my third grade classroom
• 38:08
  Speaker 7: and all he wants me to do is help him
• 38:10
  Speaker 7: or hurt become get in the position to be the
• 38:13
  Speaker 7: best fourth grader that they could be. Okay, that's my job.
• 38:17
  Speaker 7: That's what they look for me. Now I didn't want to.
• 38:21
  Speaker 7: I realized right away. I didn't want to be a
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: blackboard teacher. And here's what that means. If everything I
• 38:27
  Speaker 7: did when that classroom is on the black boards, it's
• 38:30
  Speaker 7: all blackboard, black boar or black boards. When that third
• 38:33
  Speaker 7: grader left my class, they left with nothing because that
• 38:37
  Speaker 7: black boy stays with me. If I didn't reach them
• 38:40
  Speaker 7: and their heart and their mind, I didn't help them.
• 38:42
  Speaker 7: I didn't They took nothing out of that classroom. When
• 38:45
  Speaker 7: I was in the nash Football League, I did not
• 38:46
  Speaker 7: want to be a blackboard coach for the same reason. Now,
• 38:52
  Speaker 7: now here's the way you do as a good teacher.
• 38:55
  Speaker 7: You teach to the class, but then you got to
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: know something about every one of those trying to get
• 39:00
  Speaker 7: to know every one the more and because you're all
• 39:02
  Speaker 7: going to require you to post them in a different way.
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: And coach, I'll just kind of preface your conversation. I'm
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: a retired school teacher, so I'm totally getting all of
• 39:12
  Speaker 6: this and I'm here for it.
• 39:18
  Speaker 7: So you know, so when you do it, when you
• 39:22
  Speaker 7: do it like that as a coach, I did the
• 39:24
  Speaker 7: same thing. Now me and Carl Lee comes I had
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: a player from forty nine Ers that I did this
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: program with a few months ago. Matter of fact, almost
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: coaching in forty nine ers because I had a choice
• 39:37
  Speaker 7: of going the forty nine ers of the San Diego Chargers,
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: and I told George Sea if I was coming to
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: the forty nine ers, and then I changed my mind
• 39:45
  Speaker 7: because I got a call from San Diego to come
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: be the co coordinator in San Diego, and my mom
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: was a little sick, and so I called forty nine
• 39:53
  Speaker 7: ers BACKSID, No, I'm decided, I'm going to go to
• 39:56
  Speaker 7: San Diego. This is my mom and I'll at least
• 39:58
  Speaker 7: I'll have some time spending her. This is one of
• 40:02
  Speaker 7: the players was on the forty nine ers, so he
• 40:04
  Speaker 7: was talking to coach. You almost our coach. They made
• 40:07
  Speaker 7: me an ordinary honorary forty nine Ers, but anyway, we
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: wind up coaching against each other in the Super Bowl. Anyway, now,
• 40:17
  Speaker 7: lo me and Call and Call experienced this, and you know,
• 40:21
  Speaker 7: I'm a coach, and I'm a lot older. I'm eighty two,
• 40:23
  Speaker 7: so I knew I know a lot more about what
• 40:27
  Speaker 7: Cal and I did and what we talked about. I
• 40:29
  Speaker 7: had to convince Carl that he wasn't going to play
• 40:33
  Speaker 7: a whole out of man the man this time because
• 40:36
  Speaker 7: the league was changing and Tony was his own coach,
• 40:40
  Speaker 7: So I knew Carl's bumping and run stuff was going
• 40:42
  Speaker 7: to be and I felt like he needed to be more.
• 40:48
  Speaker 7: If you're a plumber, if you're a plumber, professional plumber,
• 40:52
  Speaker 7: and you go to a job with your two box
• 40:55
  Speaker 7: and it calls for a five days winch and you
• 40:57
  Speaker 7: open your two box, if you don't have a five
• 40:59
  Speaker 7: eight winch, you're not gonna do that job. You're not
• 41:01
  Speaker 7: gonna be a professional plumber very long. So I was
• 41:03
  Speaker 7: trying to convince Carl, you need the league is changing.
• 41:07
  Speaker 7: The league is changing, so you need to put more
• 41:09
  Speaker 7: tools in that box, which means you got to learn
• 41:11
  Speaker 7: how to play zone. You got to learn how to
• 41:13
  Speaker 7: play off, and it's going to be better for you
• 41:15
  Speaker 7: in your career. And here's why number one, I knew this.
• 41:25
  Speaker 7: The NFL was going away from so much bumping, run,
• 41:27
  Speaker 7: man and man because they were getting rubbed routes pick routes.
• 41:30
  Speaker 7: That's one reason. The other reason that they were getting
• 41:33
  Speaker 7: better quarterbacks, running quarterbacking receivers. So a lot of times
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: when the quarterback runs and you're playing bumper run man
• 41:40
  Speaker 7: the man. You on a fact that you're running down
• 41:42
  Speaker 7: the field chasing there man, and he's ten yards behind.
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: He's running too, and the nobody sees me.
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 41:47
  Speaker 7: And the other thing is this, Roger Craig led the
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: league in reception that forty nine. So they were looking
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: for more quarterbacks, more that could run. Now sixteen NFL
• 42:01
  Speaker 7: quarter actually black and he could run, and they were
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: looking for more backs that could be receivers like that.
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: Christensen at forty nine ers. I coached his dad at Stanford,
• 42:10
  Speaker 7: big big aad. Christmas Christmaston was at Stamford. There's honey,
• 42:17
  Speaker 7: any linebackers and the whole league can cover Christmas. My
• 42:19
  Speaker 7: son recruited him and coach him at Stanford because he's
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: a receiver as much as he is. He flanks out.
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: There's no there's no there's there's no linebackers to covering
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: you go man, no man, they gotta cover the guy
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: and he can flank out and catch the ball. Roger
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: Craig led the league in their receptions receptions, and and
• 42:37
  Speaker 7: even at Detroit. When I was at Detroit, we had
• 42:41
  Speaker 7: James Jones and he was third in the league in
• 42:43
  Speaker 7: the receptions at Detroit when I was at Detroit, So
• 42:46
  Speaker 7: the league was changing in that point. The other thing is,
• 42:52
  Speaker 7: let me tell you how it happened, tell you what happens.
• 42:56
  Speaker 7: That's what called one of my favorite players. And I
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: told why cook this, uh two weeks three weeks ago.
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: It's because you have to have a plan. The coach
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: players in the National Ball League, you have to if
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: you're gonna be really good and help him be the
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: best he can be, you have to have a plan.
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: And I know this. Carl Lee was a was a
• 43:16
  Speaker 7: real respected veteran in the league. That's even more so.
• 43:21
  Speaker 7: I can't go and pound him. Try to pound him
• 43:23
  Speaker 7: in a square hole and he's around work. It's not
• 43:27
  Speaker 7: gonna help Cal's not going to help me because he
• 43:29
  Speaker 7: still has talent. Talent, he's gonna help us. He's gonna
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: help himself. I had and the only way I convince
• 43:35
  Speaker 7: We had this conversation and he got a little well
• 43:38
  Speaker 7: you know, I'm not king Len and I said, okay,
• 43:40
  Speaker 7: so I don't have Here's what I call you, Carl.
• 43:43
  Speaker 7: I believe it, I said, I said, Carl, you're a professional,
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: and you're a veteran. I'm I'm If you don't want
• 43:55
  Speaker 7: to talk about what we're talking about, then what's gonna
• 43:58
  Speaker 7: happen is the only thing I'm gonna have with you
• 44:00
  Speaker 7: is make sure that you do everything in that playbook
• 44:03
  Speaker 7: which is required. M I'm not gonna try to force
• 44:08
  Speaker 7: you to do anything that ain't gonna work. It's not
• 44:12
  Speaker 7: gonna work because you're a grown man and I'm a
• 44:14
  Speaker 7: grown man, and I got you know, we both get attitude.
• 44:16
  Speaker 7: We're not paying that independent thing before we've become independent.
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: And but I know this cause a pro. He figured
• 44:23
  Speaker 7: he's gonna figure out that we're not gonna play out
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: the man the man. So here's what I do. I
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: go coach some of the younger guys my best coaching.
• 44:30
  Speaker 7: And he watched. At first, I look over there, you
• 44:38
  Speaker 7: backpack on the drive step and like I'm talking about,
• 44:41
  Speaker 7: he's reading coverages and reading man route like I'm talking about.
• 44:44
  Speaker 7: And he did get better, and it didn't help him
• 44:47
  Speaker 7: because but when you know what you're dealing with. I
• 44:50
  Speaker 7: knew he would. I knew as long as he play.
• 44:53
  Speaker 7: But he had to make a decision himself because he's
• 44:55
  Speaker 7: a grown man and a pro. But you're gonna show
• 44:59
  Speaker 7: him by by getting them young guys looking at it. Hey,
• 45:02
  Speaker 7: this guy look, don't care. He's not gonna get my dog.
• 45:08
  Speaker 7: And here is the test of the thing. Dirty shart,
• 45:13
  Speaker 7: Dirty shart. I've seen you play starling shot before because
• 45:16
  Speaker 7: I was at Detroit when you guys are playings Green Bay.
• 45:19
  Speaker 7: He was the only big thing was he was strong
• 45:22
  Speaker 7: as a bull, and he wanted you to book and
• 45:25
  Speaker 7: running because he would grabbed you and you take you
• 45:27
  Speaker 7: like remember this, Yeah we don't.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: We had him on the show not too long ago.
• 45:37
  Speaker 7: Back up here. You remember that he reminded what you
• 45:41
  Speaker 7: scared come.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Back from here.
• 45:44
  Speaker 7: And here's what. Here's what you learned when you when
• 45:47
  Speaker 7: you start playing off you learn to reroute. You know
• 45:52
  Speaker 7: the best, my best, my best cornerback. And that's football
• 45:55
  Speaker 7: rant about four eight four nine.
• 45:58
  Speaker 5: You know what.
• 46:00
  Speaker 7: Here's what I'll give an example of running a lot.
• 46:05
  Speaker 7: Who I'm known since he was about seventeen years old.
• 46:07
  Speaker 7: He played for my brother at SC but I tried
• 46:11
  Speaker 7: to recruit him out of high school. And I'm known
• 46:13
  Speaker 7: for running a lot a long time. When Ronnie Lott
• 46:16
  Speaker 7: was coming out of high school in southern California, he
• 46:18
  Speaker 7: ran a four three four four forty Wow. Okay, your
• 46:25
  Speaker 7: first contract in the nash Football League is nothing to
• 46:28
  Speaker 7: do with Nation Football League. The NFL and college football
• 46:31
  Speaker 7: are totally different sports. It's like when you compare soccer
• 46:35
  Speaker 7: and basketball. The obviously gets to get the balling in that,
• 46:37
  Speaker 7: but they're two different sports. The NFL and college football
• 46:41
  Speaker 7: are two different sports. That first contract, that first contract,
• 46:48
  Speaker 7: that first contract you signed in the that moviegue is
• 46:51
  Speaker 7: for what you can do physically, your potential. The last
• 46:56
  Speaker 7: contract you signed is because of what you know about
• 46:59
  Speaker 7: how to play the game. Now, when Brianne Lotte was
• 47:02
  Speaker 7: running a four to four, I've seen guys run four
• 47:04
  Speaker 7: four four three, So I don't need in three years
• 47:06
  Speaker 7: because they don't run more than that. The last countracking
• 47:09
  Speaker 7: side is because you know how to play the game.
• 47:11
  Speaker 7: You don't run four to four no more. You won
• 47:13
  Speaker 7: four to eight four nine. Natures don't think God go
• 47:17
  Speaker 7: take a little bit away every year. So it's what
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: you who know how to play the game. It's when
• 47:21
  Speaker 7: you back off and backpedals and you look at the
• 47:23
  Speaker 7: receiver that you study, say oh that's your outinot you
• 47:25
  Speaker 7: get ready to drive on the out and if you
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: chopped himself the seven eight yards, oh you're going d
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: so he turned them round. Or if he gets something outside,
• 47:34
  Speaker 7: is the number steals you wide? I mean he's going
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: back to the side. He's creating room because he's trying
• 47:38
  Speaker 7: to take you wide away from your health. I'll give
• 47:41
  Speaker 7: you an example of what Carl learned about how it
• 47:43
  Speaker 7: plays on when you throw the glance route. When you
• 47:47
  Speaker 7: throw the glance route, here's what the receiver does. There's
• 47:51
  Speaker 7: a roster with the quarterback throws it to the receiver,
• 47:53
  Speaker 7: and there's a roster with the quarterback throws it to
• 47:55
  Speaker 7: a spot and the glass rout. In the nash Football League,
• 47:59
  Speaker 7: the balls though seventeen yards zep on the inside edge
• 48:02
  Speaker 7: of the numbers. Okay, So what the receiver does. He
• 48:07
  Speaker 7: gets on the outside edge of the number. He winds
• 48:09
  Speaker 7: on his release, and he jumped back to because he
• 48:11
  Speaker 7: knows the ball's gonna be. He knows where the ball's going.
• 48:13
  Speaker 7: The quarterbacks and not thrown to hims into a spot.
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: Here's the word. When you when you get to that
• 48:18
  Speaker 7: persistence and he whines you, you know that he's gonna
• 48:22
  Speaker 7: jump inside. Because you study the rock, you study him cold,
• 48:25
  Speaker 7: you intercept the two passes and it's Dallas on the
• 48:27
  Speaker 7: glass route. Remember that, because you learn how to read routes.
• 48:33
  Speaker 7: And here's what else I taught you about that route.
• 48:36
  Speaker 7: Now with Viffy Gland. When I got Vissy Gland in
• 48:39
  Speaker 7: the Minnesota, he was just a planet four yards and
• 48:42
  Speaker 7: he because, oh I got to tay course, I can't.
• 48:44
  Speaker 7: I got to be alas I said, Vincure, you got
• 48:46
  Speaker 7: to back off. Oh I got to be close to
• 48:47
  Speaker 7: the accent. I says, you're too close to the accent.
• 48:49
  Speaker 7: I need you at fourteen yards. I was one of
• 48:51
  Speaker 7: the only coaches in the NASHUEBLL League planning the player
• 48:54
  Speaker 7: fourteen to fifteen yards the safety and here's why. For
• 48:57
  Speaker 7: a couple of reasons. On that Gland route, corner realizes
• 49:02
  Speaker 7: that you can jump inside because most of the time
• 49:05
  Speaker 7: when the deep route, you go blacking inside out with
• 49:08
  Speaker 7: safety in the corner. But on the glance, with the
• 49:10
  Speaker 7: safety that deep, the corner could go on the kneath
• 49:12
  Speaker 7: and intercept the ball because now you're playing short of
• 49:14
  Speaker 7: deep because it's safety so deep over the top, you
• 49:16
  Speaker 7: don't have to be on top of the rock. Right, Yeah,
• 49:20
  Speaker 7: that's the zone read. That's that's how you learn how
• 49:22
  Speaker 7: to play that. And you know what you learn, that's
• 49:25
  Speaker 7: why you keep booking receivers you're watching, you say, okay,
• 49:28
  Speaker 7: because some players do a little bit different thing on
• 49:31
  Speaker 7: their speed cut to the sideline, so you white stuff down. Okay,
• 49:33
  Speaker 7: next time I play him. I know his speed cut.
• 49:35
  Speaker 7: Here's what he does. But this other guy on the
• 49:37
  Speaker 7: speed cut through the sideline is different. And the other
• 49:40
  Speaker 7: thing is some quarterbacks can't throw that speed cut all
• 49:42
  Speaker 7: the way the sideline on a rope. He was gonna
• 49:46
  Speaker 7: get a little closer to the quarterbacks because the quarterbacks
• 49:48
  Speaker 7: only gonna throw it about foury yards outside the number
• 49:50
  Speaker 7: because he can't throw it all over your sideline. You
• 49:52
  Speaker 7: learn that too, But you learn about me of learning
• 49:59
  Speaker 7: learning to and reach the quarterback. Yeah, three or four
• 50:03
  Speaker 7: stayings in the NFL. That are my That are my sayings.
• 50:06
  Speaker 7: They still use the Assuable League. Eric Gallach said said
• 50:10
  Speaker 7: it last year when he got his when he got
• 50:12
  Speaker 7: his U the Hall of Fame. My first when I started,
• 50:16
  Speaker 7: when I was coaching Minnesota Vikings, it's Tipton overthrows.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Well, tike at sense how coach Hollis is Hollis is
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: actually a quarterback as well, so he's enjoying all the
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: information relatable as quarterback.
• 50:32
  Speaker 7: And I always sensis, yeah, there, what big of sense
• 50:36
  Speaker 7: came from? At Minnesota, I kind of studied that. But
• 50:39
  Speaker 7: here's what it is. My first year of Minnesota, we
• 50:43
  Speaker 7: led the league in toll defense, we led the league
• 50:46
  Speaker 7: in the past defense, and we led the league in interceptions.
• 50:49
  Speaker 7: We had twenty eight interceptions. Okay, remember that. So in
• 50:55
  Speaker 7: the off season I put all the all twenty interceptions
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: on a tape. Cut him out. Don't want to cut
• 51:02
  Speaker 7: up because it's free. When you guys came back, you
• 51:05
  Speaker 7: know for many cat when you look at him and
• 51:06
  Speaker 7: see what and here's what I look. When I watched it,
• 51:08
  Speaker 7: I saw this. There was there was four or five
• 51:12
  Speaker 7: interception I made on great breaks on the balls. All
• 51:17
  Speaker 7: the rest that were on tips and overthrows. So I
• 51:22
  Speaker 7: started putting in drills and practices before we worked on
• 51:24
  Speaker 7: tips and over those. And here's what else helped helped
• 51:26
  Speaker 7: you get tips and over those if you started. And
• 51:29
  Speaker 7: here's it's the formula I worked out when I was
• 51:31
  Speaker 7: a young coach. That's why I started the safety deep
• 51:35
  Speaker 7: at fourteen yards because when the quarterback. Now, first of all,
• 51:39
  Speaker 7: the first read on the quarterback, you read I untilled
• 51:41
  Speaker 7: your manners on your first read. When you're all seven
• 51:43
  Speaker 7: yards old, you read the quarterback because if he stands
• 51:45
  Speaker 7: straight up, it's a quick three step drop the ball's
• 51:48
  Speaker 7: coming out. But if he takes that big lead step
• 51:50
  Speaker 7: like he's coming out of the box one hundred yard desks,
• 51:53
  Speaker 7: it's going to be a five to seven step drop. Okay,
• 51:58
  Speaker 7: So when the quarterback got to the top of his drop,
• 52:03
  Speaker 7: I wanted my cornerbacks at ten yards, at fifteen yards,
• 52:06
  Speaker 7: and my safety at twenty yards. There what happened with
• 52:10
  Speaker 7: tips and overthrows when you back that deep. Sometimes a
• 52:14
  Speaker 7: player old drive, he said, the ball coming to receive,
• 52:15
  Speaker 7: you'll drive to make the tackle, and the ball is overthrown,
• 52:19
  Speaker 7: and it went right where he was or it was tipped.
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: So if he's all far enough, he could play the
• 52:25
  Speaker 7: balls for where it's going, where it's high or lower wherever,
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: and so he's gonna wind up with a lot better
• 52:30
  Speaker 7: chance to get.
• 52:30
  Speaker 5: A tip on over bro coach.
• 52:33
  Speaker 8: I love this technical talk, and I think that a
• 52:35
  Speaker 8: lot of our even our high school kids, because of
• 52:38
  Speaker 8: the technology, they could definitely benefit from this, and this
• 52:41
  Speaker 8: is something that they could actually study, you know, because
• 52:44
  Speaker 8: of the technology.
• 52:45
  Speaker 4: That we have in the access. So just we're wrapping up.
• 52:49
  Speaker 8: So just as maybe a final question or two, what
• 52:52
  Speaker 8: would be your advice to young coaches aspiring to maybe
• 52:57
  Speaker 8: go from you know, middle or high school to you know,
• 53:00
  Speaker 8: the power for even possibility coaching in the NFL.
• 53:06
  Speaker 7: Find somebody that knows what they're doing and your coach
• 53:09
  Speaker 7: can do that. I've spoken a lot of high school
• 53:11
  Speaker 7: clinics and then because I was a high school coach too,
• 53:13
  Speaker 7: so I really leaned towards I've coached. I've spoken a
• 53:17
  Speaker 7: lot of colleges and a lot of clinics, but I
• 53:20
  Speaker 7: enjoyed going to high schools because I put basically where
• 53:23
  Speaker 7: I started to junior high in high school. So find
• 53:26
  Speaker 7: somebody who's on my level, who knows what to you know,
• 53:30
  Speaker 7: you can find coaches and talk to people that were
• 53:33
  Speaker 7: willing to come and talk to you or you guys,
• 53:36
  Speaker 7: if you're coaching them, and it's all you got to
• 53:39
  Speaker 7: do is put a little more effort into it. You've
• 53:41
  Speaker 7: got to make sure that you find somebody who's interested
• 53:45
  Speaker 7: in me what you're doing. High school coach and there's
• 53:47
  Speaker 7: a lot of coaches like myself who are really interested
• 53:49
  Speaker 7: because in high school, ninety percent of everything he's going
• 53:54
  Speaker 7: to learn about the game is you learn in high schools,
• 53:57
  Speaker 7: not in college or the NFL. They don't teach you
• 54:01
  Speaker 7: about NFL is gonna make you a better tackler. They
• 54:03
  Speaker 7: don't make it. They don't tell you about the game
• 54:05
  Speaker 7: and the workers and working together. That's that all comes
• 54:08
  Speaker 7: in high school. They might refine it in college in
• 54:11
  Speaker 7: the NFL, but they but they don't. It starts in
• 54:14
  Speaker 7: high school where you learn. Most of what you're gonna
• 54:16
  Speaker 7: ever learn about the game is in high school, and
• 54:18
  Speaker 7: then you might get you know, fine tuned. So it's
• 54:23
  Speaker 7: for the high school formative years are very very very
• 54:27
  Speaker 7: important when they're gonna learn about the game. The ones
• 54:29
  Speaker 7: with the better high school coaches, but it turned out
• 54:31
  Speaker 7: to be better players because it's you know, it's it's
• 54:34
  Speaker 7: it's like I said, the best players don't always win.
• 54:36
  Speaker 7: It's the best team. When I was with the Sannuel Chargers,
• 54:40
  Speaker 7: we were picked to take last in the Western Division.
• 54:44
  Speaker 7: L Way was that Denver and Montana was at Cancite
• 54:47
  Speaker 7: and they were the favorite. We beat both of them
• 54:48
  Speaker 7: twice and went to the Super Bowl because we had it.
• 54:51
  Speaker 7: They had better players, We just had a better team
• 54:53
  Speaker 7: concept because it's not tennis and it's not golf. It's
• 54:56
  Speaker 7: not it's not track. It's team concept.
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: True, true, Well, coach, we're gonna we gotta get out
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: of here.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Hey, man, I appreciate all the info and look forward
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: to hang out with you sometime soon.
• 55:13
  Speaker 7: Hey, let's stay in touch. Man. We have been pretty much.
• 55:16
  Speaker 4: But okay, sounds good.
• 55:18
  Speaker 7: Thank you, Thank you guys very much, thank you.
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: All Right, ladies and gentlemen, we're gonna get out of
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: here and uh we'll get with you again next week.