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Cardinals roster questions: Who's in, who's out? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: A little late, but better late than never. Welcome to
0:09
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory. My apologies. We usually like to have these
0:12
Speaker 1: episodes on Friday. However, I did a little girls trip
0:15
Speaker 1: with my mom and my aunt to New Orleans this weekend,
0:18
Speaker 1: and while I would admit that it probably would have
0:20
Speaker 1: made for a fun episode, I am actively trying to
0:23
Speaker 1: keep my job before the season starts, so we pushed
0:25
Speaker 1: it to Sunday, when I have allegedly recovered from said trip.
0:29
Speaker 1: And here to join me today on this fresh episode
0:32
Speaker 1: of Cardinal Territory is my good friend Kyle Reese. He
0:35
Speaker 1: covers the minor leagues extensively for the Cardinals. He is
0:38
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Twitter followers. He is a fellow degenerate.
0:42
Speaker 1: So that's three for three. Kyle, thank you so much
0:44
Speaker 1: for joining me.
0:44
Speaker 2: I'm so happy here, Katie. I'm incredibly excited. I cannot
0:48
Speaker 2: wait to talk it over with you. I mentioned to
0:49
Speaker 2: you I'm drinking a really heavy alcohol content beer for
0:52
Speaker 2: the PAD people and for you. Since you can't thank.
0:55
Speaker 1: You, well, I can. I just don't know if it's
0:56
Speaker 1: the best idea. I think my body would quite literally quit.
0:59
Speaker 1: I'd never been to New Orleans before. And shout out
1:02
Speaker 1: to my mom and my aunt. They can party. I
1:03
Speaker 1: guess this is hereditary. I had some trouble keeping up.
1:07
Speaker 1: Dare I say, I'm just not in a mid season form.
1:09
Speaker 1: I have some work to do before spring training.
1:11
Speaker 2: It's not even spring training, Katie. It just wasn't fair
1:13
Speaker 2: to ask you to perform at that high level.
1:16
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you great. I'm so glad you understand. Kyle.
1:20
Speaker 1: We have a lot to get into despite again another
1:24
Speaker 1: episode where no moves have been made. One of these
1:27
Speaker 1: days I will have news for the fellow supporters of
1:31
Speaker 1: this podcast. I promise you that it just isn't today.
1:35
Speaker 1: You and I caught up last weekend at Winter warm
1:37
Speaker 1: Up and we had a grand old time. And I
1:41
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I kind of got a
1:42
Speaker 1: little bit more in the zone for the season to start.
1:45
Speaker 1: Baseball is actually very soon, it doesn't feel that way,
1:49
Speaker 1: but Winter warm Up, I think there was a lot
1:51
Speaker 1: to talk about. What were your takeaways from the whole
1:54
Speaker 1: I don't know, three day event.
1:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one thing that stood out and I
1:58
Speaker 2: heard you talk about this with Trevor last episode. There
2:02
Speaker 2: was a certain amount of energy with the players that
2:05
Speaker 2: I don't feel like has been present in the last
2:07
Speaker 2: couple of years. It seemed like the new hitting coach,
2:10
Speaker 2: Brent Brown is really facilitating some of this energy, some
2:14
Speaker 2: of this cohesiveness that the organization's trying to find. That
2:17
Speaker 2: was definitely one of the things that stuck out stood
2:19
Speaker 2: out to me. One thing I know that you know better,
2:21
Speaker 2: way better than I do, is just how important Andrew
2:23
Speaker 2: Kittridge was to both the relievers and the starters that
2:27
Speaker 2: came across. Because everybody was talking about the role that
2:30
Speaker 2: Andrew Kittridge played within the clubhouse last year, from again
2:34
Speaker 2: from starting pitchers to relief pictures to young pitchers, older
2:36
Speaker 2: pictures that really stood out. And I just think other
2:41
Speaker 2: than that, where I have my questions, are these quote
2:46
Speaker 2: unquote opportunities that keep getting talked about and appear to
2:51
Speaker 2: be there on the surface, but aren't necessarily there if
2:54
Speaker 2: you start doing a little bit of digging. And I'm
2:57
Speaker 2: just anxious how that messaging is coming across throughout the organization.
3:01
Speaker 1: So dare I say that you have some questions about
3:05
Speaker 1: the youth movement? It's crazy, It's almost like we planned
3:08
Speaker 1: that transition. That was one of my best Actually, no,
3:12
Speaker 1: I think it's valid. Look, I'm on board with the
3:16
Speaker 1: youth movement. I understand it. It's been needed, and I
3:19
Speaker 1: think if your Cardinals fan has been paying attention to
3:21
Speaker 1: the messaging about the organization over the last four months,
3:24
Speaker 1: you may not love it. You may not love the
3:27
Speaker 1: direction they're going, certainly not loving the lack of spending.
3:30
Speaker 1: But maybe we can understand why this is necessary. I mean,
3:33
Speaker 1: you were there for Sonny Grain Wilson Controrosts, both who've
3:35
Speaker 1: been in the organization for less than two years, and
3:38
Speaker 1: said this is needed. I mean Contrarasts went out to
3:40
Speaker 1: say straight out Minola system was bad. Crazy. When I
3:44
Speaker 1: said that, I got yelled at. It's okay, I'm not
3:47
Speaker 1: mad or anything too. Yeah, weird, and I like the
3:52
Speaker 1: idea of the youth movement. It's the right timing. John
3:54
Speaker 1: Moselac is stepping down, Heim Bloom is taking over. There
3:57
Speaker 1: is a you know, Gate revenue is out of decline,
4:00
Speaker 1: the television deal. People get tired of hearing about it,
4:02
Speaker 1: but it is a legit thing. This is a good
4:04
Speaker 1: time to maybe like clear the books and do this
4:07
Speaker 1: reset so that when the next front office takes over
4:09
Speaker 1: there aren't very many questions. But in order to do that,
4:12
Speaker 1: you have to guarantee playing time, and with the way
4:15
Speaker 1: the roster is currently constructed, I'm not sure that they
4:18
Speaker 1: can guarantee playing time to every single player they want
4:20
Speaker 1: to right now.
4:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in my mind. I keep calling it the
4:24
Speaker 2: illusion of opportunity because it is a something that they
4:29
Speaker 2: can keep harping on and keep talking about. But really,
4:31
Speaker 2: when you break it down, the only opportunities that they're
4:33
Speaker 2: creating and that they've been vocal about creating, are for
4:36
Speaker 2: Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker. Everyone else is like a
4:39
Speaker 2: sidebar or a side note, like it could happen. And
4:43
Speaker 2: I think that for me, at least, when I look
4:45
Speaker 2: at the whole picture, I think Nolan Gorman and Jordan
4:47
Speaker 2: Walker are two completely different test subjects. Like Nolan Gorman's
4:51
Speaker 2: kind of been given this already. Sure, at the end
4:54
Speaker 2: of last year he got sent down to the minors,
4:55
Speaker 2: but he was given a runway of months, multiple months
4:59
Speaker 2: to get himself right without the fear of getting sent
5:02
Speaker 2: down to the minors, and he just wasn't able to
5:05
Speaker 2: do it. And sure, I think that you know, that's
5:08
Speaker 2: that's I guess that's where the question is what is opportunity.
5:11
Speaker 2: I've heard some people, maybe a little bit more in
5:14
Speaker 2: tune with the organization, say that it is about the
5:16
Speaker 2: opportunity for Walker and Gorman to feel like there isn't
5:19
Speaker 2: going to be pressure to be sent down if they struggle.
5:22
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's the message that the Cardinals
5:24
Speaker 2: have sent to the fans or to the players, but
5:26
Speaker 2: I can understand where that would be the story or
5:28
Speaker 2: the message. But it's just aside from those two, there
5:32
Speaker 2: really aren't any open opportunities, whether Nolan Arnatto is on
5:37
Speaker 2: the roster or not, which you know, it just it's
5:40
Speaker 2: a really interesting time, especially when fans are clamoring for
5:43
Speaker 2: a clear message, and we've only seen it fluctuate from
5:46
Speaker 2: the end of season presser until today.
5:50
Speaker 1: Correct. I think you're spot on all of that, and
5:54
Speaker 1: let's go to Nolan Gorman first, because you're right, the
5:57
Speaker 1: Cardinals have promised like opportunity garan time to Gorman and Walker.
6:02
Speaker 1: But there are many other guys who I think they
6:04
Speaker 1: need to figure out, Lars Newparr, Pedro Pa Hesivon Herreraz.
6:07
Speaker 1: These are just position players. We'll get into the pitching later.
6:11
Speaker 1: We saw Nolan Gorman in twenty twenty four have an
6:14
Speaker 1: extended amount of time for a team that was competing,
6:16
Speaker 1: And I get fans in the organization have different definitions
6:20
Speaker 1: of competing, but up until the middle of August, the
6:22
Speaker 1: Cardinals were right there in that wild card race, and
6:26
Speaker 1: there were many times where I did not think the
6:28
Speaker 1: production of Nolan Gorman matched up for a team that
6:30
Speaker 1: was heavy on competing, and in my opinion, he had
6:33
Speaker 1: a really extended leash to the point where that when
6:36
Speaker 1: he was sent down, Obviously you don't wish to spre
6:37
Speaker 1: any player or you don't, you know, advocate for this,
6:40
Speaker 1: but it was like, yeah, you know what, he needs
6:42
Speaker 1: to go there because his confidence is shot and he's
6:44
Speaker 1: no longer contributed at the major leagues. But I saw
6:47
Speaker 1: that opportunity. We saw that opportunity for Gorman. Walker a
6:50
Speaker 1: little bit of a different story. If you've listened to
6:52
Speaker 1: the podcast, you know how I feel about the situation,
6:55
Speaker 1: and I think this opportunity for Jordan Walker is so crucial.
7:00
Speaker 1: Talking to Jordan and listening to how he handle his
7:02
Speaker 1: press conference that went and warm up, I hadn't seen
7:04
Speaker 1: that kind of charisma or energy from Jordan Walker in
7:07
Speaker 1: about two years he seems really invested with Brandon Brown,
7:10
Speaker 1: someone who I've just you know, introduced myself to but
7:13
Speaker 1: not really had a chance to get to know. So
7:15
Speaker 1: I'm excited to do that. But that was old Jordan Walker.
7:19
Speaker 1: We saw at the podium. That was a convicted Jordan Walker,
7:21
Speaker 1: a happy Jordan Walker. And I think this opportunity will
7:24
Speaker 1: really benefit him. So at least the Cardinals have promised
7:27
Speaker 1: consistent playing time to him in right field as well.
7:30
Speaker 1: But let's talk about all of the other guys. I
7:33
Speaker 1: made two little tiny rosters that so good. I'm an
7:37
Speaker 1: artist too. I don't know if you guys knew that,
7:40
Speaker 1: one Arnado and one without. So twenty twenty five Lineup,
7:46
Speaker 1: Part one includes Nolan Arnado because we're two weeks away
7:49
Speaker 1: from spring training and guess what, they are not even
7:52
Speaker 1: close at all to trading him. What a time, What
7:56
Speaker 1: a time to be alive. So I'm going to go
7:58
Speaker 1: under the impression, like the like Jamallack and Oli Marmalalar
8:01
Speaker 1: that they're going to plan for him to be on
8:02
Speaker 1: the roster until he's not. So there guys that are
8:06
Speaker 1: going to play no matter what. Mason Win is going
8:08
Speaker 1: to play shortstop every day, Wilson Conterras is going to
8:10
Speaker 1: be in the lineup every day, probably at first base,
8:13
Speaker 1: maybe a DH. Brendan Donovan's going to be in the
8:15
Speaker 1: lineup every day. We don't know where, but let's just
8:19
Speaker 1: say this is, you know, your tentative opening day lineup
8:21
Speaker 1: with Nolan ar not a still on the team, nolan'
8:23
Speaker 1: not at third base, Mason went at shortstop, Nolan Gorman
8:27
Speaker 1: at second, Wilson con Juris at first, some combination of
8:29
Speaker 1: Pedro Pahz Yvon Herrera behind the plate. Your outfield goes
8:33
Speaker 1: Donovan and left Walker and right and this go already
8:37
Speaker 1: goes down to like where there's kind of a jam here.
8:40
Speaker 1: You're almost forced to play a Lars new Bar in
8:42
Speaker 1: center field because there's nowhere else to put him, and
8:45
Speaker 1: he is one of those players that the Cardinals need
8:47
Speaker 1: to figure out. And then of course burlsten is your DH.
8:50
Speaker 1: It's not a super convincing lineup, and for a very
8:52
Speaker 1: long time the Cardinals have been very wary of putting
8:56
Speaker 1: Lars new Bar in center field. And I'm not sure. Well,
8:59
Speaker 1: I'm a large New Bar enthusiasts as well. If I
9:01
Speaker 1: want someone with the extensive injury history, such as Lars
9:04
Speaker 1: to be playing center field. Kyle, what are your thoughts?
9:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same way, you know, the Lars
9:07
Speaker 2: new Bar in center. First off, I want the Cardinals
9:10
Speaker 2: to field their best lineup, and there is an argument
9:12
Speaker 2: to be made that even if Arnado does get traded,
9:15
Speaker 2: that Lars Newbar in center actually gives them their best lineup.
9:18
Speaker 2: But it just reeks of Tyler O'Neal in center field
9:22
Speaker 2: where he's probably going to throttle back a little bit
9:25
Speaker 2: if he can. But we like it went to warm up.
9:28
Speaker 2: That was another thing Lars talked about, the inability to
9:30
Speaker 2: throttle back, Like if he's going to go on the field,
9:33
Speaker 2: he's going to go all out. He's not going to
9:34
Speaker 2: worry about accidentally bumping like he's having in the back
9:37
Speaker 2: of his mind. But that's not going to stop him
9:39
Speaker 2: from tracking a ball to the wall and being worried
9:42
Speaker 2: that he's accidentally going to bump into the wall and
9:44
Speaker 2: he's going to crumble into a ton of bricks. So
9:47
Speaker 2: it's it is. It is a tough balance there, But yeah,
9:51
Speaker 2: that's my thought in particular with Lars. I just when
9:53
Speaker 2: you look up and down, it's it's just such an
9:55
Speaker 2: unusual group of players that you're trying to create opportunity
10:00
Speaker 2: for as well. You know, we heard Alec Burlson talk.
10:04
Speaker 2: Alec Burlson talked about he might play a little corner outfield.
10:08
Speaker 1: You know.
10:08
Speaker 2: He seemed convinced that most of his his reps and
10:11
Speaker 2: his opportunities are going to be at first along with Wilson.
10:14
Speaker 2: So that makes an interesting DH conversation there. It just
10:19
Speaker 2: it seems very confusing to me on the outside as
10:23
Speaker 2: I try to piece it all together. And then like
10:27
Speaker 2: the redundancy that they have in center field if they
10:29
Speaker 2: do trade Arnatto with Sianni and Victor Scott the second.
10:32
Speaker 1: You know.
10:33
Speaker 2: One of my takeaways from winter warm up was just
10:35
Speaker 2: how much Oliver Marmole seems to really love Michael Sianni.
10:39
Speaker 2: He couldn't wait to rant on and on about how
10:41
Speaker 2: before he got hurt he was a real hitter. Never
10:44
Speaker 2: mind that he was just taking seventy five percent of
10:46
Speaker 2: his hits to the opposite field because they were just
10:48
Speaker 2: throwing him high fastballs with two strikes, you know, because
10:51
Speaker 2: they they didn't worry about him. There was nothing to
10:52
Speaker 2: worry about because it's Michael Sianni. So all of that
10:55
Speaker 2: is just to say you're you were dead on about
10:58
Speaker 2: everything you just said, and it seems like the more
11:01
Speaker 2: you talk about it, the more you converse, the more
11:03
Speaker 2: confusing the whole lineup gets and the opportunities get as well,
11:08
Speaker 2: because there aren't a whole lot out there. One there.
11:13
Speaker 2: I was gonna say one of the other things, and
11:15
Speaker 2: maybe you can explain it to me too. I'm asking you, like,
11:18
Speaker 2: we've heard the Cardinals talk about if they can move
11:20
Speaker 2: our NATO that they'd be interested in signing relief help.
11:22
Speaker 2: And also a right handed bat, and the right handed
11:26
Speaker 2: bat for like the bench is also something I can't
11:28
Speaker 2: wrap my mind around because if you're trying to create opportunity,
11:32
Speaker 2: then if you're bringing in a right handed bat for
11:34
Speaker 2: the bench, then doesn't that limit the opportunities for Thomas
11:37
Speaker 2: to jac and also for luken Baker? When am I
11:39
Speaker 2: misreading that you're not?
11:42
Speaker 1: And the thing that I think was interesting about the
11:44
Speaker 1: right handed bat is presumably if they get that. We
11:47
Speaker 1: look at the lineup right now, it's still very left
11:49
Speaker 1: handed heavy, just like last year, and that is because
11:52
Speaker 1: there hasn't been many changes to last year's roster. Crazy
11:57
Speaker 1: I think if Nolan stays, I don't see a path
12:01
Speaker 1: for Thomas to Jace on the opening day roster. Now,
12:04
Speaker 1: I get that's probably a premature reaction because there's six
12:07
Speaker 1: seven weeks of spring training we have to get through.
12:09
Speaker 1: But if we started the season today, there's no way
12:12
Speaker 1: that Thomas to Jacre because he's not gonna send on
12:14
Speaker 1: the bench. They've already promised playing time to Gorman. Donovan
12:17
Speaker 1: needs to be in there every day. You're not gonna
12:18
Speaker 1: sit Nolan Arnatto. Anyone that comments that on this video, no,
12:23
Speaker 1: don't do They're not gonna do it. It's not gonna work.
12:27
Speaker 1: So there's no real room for Thomas to Jace. Even
12:29
Speaker 1: if Nolan is traded. Then you go back to let
12:32
Speaker 1: me check out my second it's even uglier. I'm gonna
12:37
Speaker 1: show it to the camera. You're gonna have some sort
12:40
Speaker 1: of combination with Michael Sianni and Victor Scott in center field.
12:43
Speaker 1: And you are right, there is a clear number one
12:48
Speaker 1: in the organization on who they want in center field,
12:50
Speaker 1: including New bar it's Sianni. And for an organization that
12:54
Speaker 1: has always value defense, Michael Sianni, I think right now
12:58
Speaker 1: is your best defensive center field. But the Cardinals need
13:03
Speaker 1: to hit. I do think lineup number one that we
13:05
Speaker 1: just talked about. I do think the potential of having
13:08
Speaker 1: a successful offense or a productive offense. I won't say
13:10
Speaker 1: better than last year because low bar, but at least
13:13
Speaker 1: a league average offense is pretty high, especially because you
13:16
Speaker 1: can trade Herrera in and Burly in as the DH
13:18
Speaker 1: depending on the opposing pitcher. We know Alie Marmal loves
13:21
Speaker 1: to play the splits, but I'm looking at this now,
13:25
Speaker 1: and even with an outfield of new bar Sionni and
13:27
Speaker 1: Walker and then Gorman at third and Donovan at second,
13:30
Speaker 1: there's still just it's it's more consistent, but you still
13:34
Speaker 1: don't have guaranteed time for Burlison. You still don't have
13:36
Speaker 1: guaranteed time for your catchers. What is Lucan Baker? Ali
13:39
Speaker 1: Marmel talked about this. He said, I thought it was
13:41
Speaker 1: a good question by Brandon Kylie from one on one
13:43
Speaker 1: ESPN on if this would this youth movement would change
13:46
Speaker 1: Allie's management style, and he also talked about the importance
13:49
Speaker 1: of developing a bench bat. Is that going to be
13:52
Speaker 1: Lucan Baker's role? Okay? Is Burlson's role going to be
13:55
Speaker 1: a DH I don't love the idea of him in
13:57
Speaker 1: the outfield. I think Burley's great, He's a bat first player.
14:03
Speaker 1: So I'm just I think I'm just really confused on
14:06
Speaker 1: how this is going to work, because then we haven't
14:08
Speaker 1: even talked about bringing in that alleged right handed bench bat,
14:12
Speaker 1: which if you're trying to compete, yeah, you need someone
14:15
Speaker 1: like a Chris Taylor. You know that's someone that the
14:18
Speaker 1: Dodgers are trying to move off of. Sure he makes
14:22
Speaker 1: your team. Would you rather that opportunity to go to Baker?
14:27
Speaker 1: Or do the Cardinals want a proven veteran. We know
14:30
Speaker 1: how Mo feels about those. He loves them. And I
14:33
Speaker 1: don't fault the Cardinals for still trying to compete. I
14:36
Speaker 1: said this before. I think you should always try to
14:38
Speaker 1: compete if you're the Saint Louis Cardinals. They did not
14:40
Speaker 1: need to do a full fledge rebuild. I'm so glad
14:42
Speaker 1: they didn't, but their plan. I hope we get more
14:47
Speaker 1: clarity on how this playing time will actually work, because
14:49
Speaker 1: right now, it's just like a bunch of pieces that
14:51
Speaker 1: they say they want to play, and I'm having a
14:53
Speaker 1: hard time making them all fit, especially if Barnado is
14:55
Speaker 1: still here.
14:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And all of this is we haven't even
14:58
Speaker 2: got to the pitching yet.
15:00
Speaker 1: Now.
15:00
Speaker 2: The only area where they've subtracted from last year really,
15:03
Speaker 2: as you talk about it being basically the same roster
15:06
Speaker 2: are Gibson and Lynn, you know, like that's it, and
15:09
Speaker 2: those two spots in the rotation, if you're to believe
15:12
Speaker 2: what the front office is even saying to the public,
15:15
Speaker 2: those two spots are relatively taken. The rotation is almost
15:19
Speaker 2: pretty well set, and the bullpen. The only real opportunity
15:23
Speaker 2: there is to replace Andrew Kittridge from an organizational standpoint,
15:28
Speaker 2: So it's it's so confusing, and they you know, they
15:32
Speaker 2: can keep talking over and over again about creating opportunity,
15:35
Speaker 2: but when the opportunity is only there for a starter
15:39
Speaker 2: to become a starter if there's an injury, then that's
15:41
Speaker 2: not really an opportunity. That is again like the illusion
15:45
Speaker 2: of opportunity. It's I don't I don't know how else
15:48
Speaker 2: to quantify it or to to because I just like
15:51
Speaker 2: that's so obvious that that's the issue. You know, they're
15:54
Speaker 2: going to go into spring banking on somebody getting hurt
15:57
Speaker 2: and having enough depth in McGreevy or Thompson or whoever
16:00
Speaker 2: else might be. Maybe Matthew's probably not you know, maybe
16:03
Speaker 2: someone else give it for those guys to maybe get
16:07
Speaker 2: an opportunity, And it does not look like that's there
16:09
Speaker 2: without injury. So even even on that side, it's just
16:13
Speaker 2: another level of confusion to add to this year of opportunity,
16:17
Speaker 2: this transition here.
16:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think there's a two fold here. Finally,
16:23
Speaker 1: it seems like the Cardinals have adequate depth for starting
16:26
Speaker 1: pitching in case something goes wrong, because something is going
16:29
Speaker 1: to go wrong. It's just the nature of the game.
16:31
Speaker 1: And they're certainly not the only team that has had
16:32
Speaker 1: to deal with starting pitching injuries. Let's look at the
16:35
Speaker 1: Los Angeles Dodgers for example. Now, do I love the
16:39
Speaker 1: idea of a full veteran rotation. I mean yeah, I
16:42
Speaker 1: love Senny Grays and Ace Sure right now, your number
16:46
Speaker 1: two it is probably Andre Polante, which is no knock
16:49
Speaker 1: on him. Good for Blunte he ran with that opportunity
16:51
Speaker 1: last year. And then you have some sort of combination
16:53
Speaker 1: of Miles Michaelis, Eric Fetti and maybe Stephen Matts. I
16:56
Speaker 1: have a theory, and we're going to get to that one.
16:58
Speaker 1: What does that do for Mike McGreevey. What do you
17:02
Speaker 1: what are you gonna see out of Zach Thompson, who
17:03
Speaker 1: this is by far and away his last year to
17:05
Speaker 1: get right with his organization. They're gonna, I think it
17:08
Speaker 1: makes sense stretch out a lot of these guys to
17:09
Speaker 1: be starters. Matthew Libertori, Gordon Griseppo. Of course you want
17:12
Speaker 1: some depth. Drew Ramas coming back from injury and you
17:15
Speaker 1: need this depth. I remember my very first year in
17:17
Speaker 1: twenty one, the Cardinals broke camp with two out of
17:20
Speaker 1: five starters, and I was like, look, I know I've
17:22
Speaker 1: been on this job for like three days, but I
17:23
Speaker 1: don't think this is normal. I'm call me Gray. I
17:26
Speaker 1: just don't think this is right. And so I like
17:29
Speaker 1: I like the veteran stability because once say what you
17:32
Speaker 1: want about Miles Michaelist, but he's proven to eat innings
17:35
Speaker 1: and that's important when you have a bunch of young
17:36
Speaker 1: guys in the minors. Sunny great, you know what you're
17:38
Speaker 1: gonna get out of him. Eric Fetty, Yeah, whatever, I
17:43
Speaker 1: think this is an opportunity. We talked about filling the
17:45
Speaker 1: void for h Andrew Kittridge. This can go right into
17:49
Speaker 1: my next segment. Gosh, so good, I'm so on it today.
17:54
Speaker 1: And having to fill him, Well, we know what Steven
17:56
Speaker 1: Matts is as a starter. We also know and this
17:58
Speaker 1: is again nothing against Steven as a person. We know
18:02
Speaker 1: what he can and can't do, and he has not
18:05
Speaker 1: been able to notch a full season of health. When
18:08
Speaker 1: he starts, he's relatively effective, But when he's in the bullpen,
18:11
Speaker 1: I think he's just as if not more. If you
18:13
Speaker 1: want to see what you have in starting pitching, and
18:16
Speaker 1: Stephen mats is on an expiring deal, Miles Michaels is
18:19
Speaker 1: not going to go to the bullpen, right but Stephen Mattz,
18:22
Speaker 1: who has had difficulty making twenty plus starts since he
18:26
Speaker 1: became a cardinal, why not move him to the bullpen
18:29
Speaker 1: see if he can fill that Kittridge void or at
18:31
Speaker 1: least provides some sort of veteranstability, because other than Ryan
18:34
Speaker 1: Helsley there is none. And bring in Mike mcgreeby to
18:37
Speaker 1: start every fifth day bare minimum. I think that is
18:40
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm no genius, but I think that's
18:43
Speaker 1: a pretty logical solution right now, in order to creat
18:45
Speaker 1: an opportunity as the Cardinals say.
18:47
Speaker 2: That's exactly where I am at to. It doesn't make
18:50
Speaker 2: sense to me. I guess they saw enough about Mattz's
18:52
Speaker 2: repertoire change in beefing up at the end of last
18:55
Speaker 2: year that they feel confident that he could start if
18:58
Speaker 2: he stays healthy. But you know, last they tried to
19:00
Speaker 2: do that thing out of spring training where they were
19:02
Speaker 2: extra careful with him, where they babied him and babied him,
19:04
Speaker 2: and then what happened exactly what you would expect, which
19:08
Speaker 2: could actually lead us into Cooper Jrpy talk. But that's
19:10
Speaker 2: a whole different start, a whole we should have waited.
19:13
Speaker 2: I'm throwing you off your on game.
19:15
Speaker 1: Great doing so good, Kyle. You've seen the show before.
19:18
Speaker 1: It's usually not like this.
19:20
Speaker 2: But yeah, you know last year they tried to baby
19:22
Speaker 2: him and it didn't work. They tried to be aggressive
19:24
Speaker 2: with him, and it doesn't work. So I do understand
19:26
Speaker 2: why you would say somebody's going to get hurt, because
19:28
Speaker 2: in the back of your mind, you're saying Steven Matts
19:29
Speaker 2: is the guy who's going to get hurt, and somebody
19:31
Speaker 2: will take a spot. But I think back to twenty
19:33
Speaker 2: twenty two, the controversial playoff game against the Philly is
19:36
Speaker 2: the first one when they were trying to bridge to
19:38
Speaker 2: Ryan Helsley. Well, they left Steven Matts in the bullpen
19:42
Speaker 2: for that game, and he had come on as a
19:44
Speaker 2: really strong bullpen piece.
19:45
Speaker 1: You know that.
19:47
Speaker 2: I think that if they would have utilized him properly
19:49
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two out of the bullpen, I think
19:51
Speaker 2: that you would have had your bridge. And I think
19:53
Speaker 2: that he can be that bridge again in twenty twenty five.
19:57
Speaker 2: That is the next year, right is that? What year
19:58
Speaker 2: it is?
19:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy, we're here.
20:03
Speaker 2: So in twenty twenty five, he would be the perfect
20:06
Speaker 2: guy for that role, you know. I with the way
20:08
Speaker 2: that JoJo's second half, Jojo Romero second half went, I
20:12
Speaker 2: would feel way more comfortable, especially because I think Matthew
20:15
Speaker 2: Libertore is going to be in the bullpen. But I
20:17
Speaker 2: like the lefty combo of Matt's and Libertire out of
20:20
Speaker 2: the bullpen. I think that there's some real high upside
20:23
Speaker 2: there with some real high velocity for both of those
20:25
Speaker 2: guys that they'll be able to show on a regular
20:27
Speaker 2: basis and with some filthy stuff. So again, like you
20:30
Speaker 2: talk about opportunity creating opportunity. That's an easy, quick way
20:34
Speaker 2: to create opportunity. And then at that point you wouldn't
20:36
Speaker 2: even have to give that job to McGreevy. I think
20:39
Speaker 2: McGreevy would get it. I think McGreevy earned it. I've
20:41
Speaker 2: never been a big Michael McGreevy fan, but he's won
20:43
Speaker 2: me over with his repertoire tw with his repertoire change
20:46
Speaker 2: and how he's developed as a pitcher to be a
20:48
Speaker 2: back end of the rotation starter. But he could be
20:51
Speaker 2: in a battle with Matthews, and I mean I would. Again,
20:54
Speaker 2: I'm the minor league guy, so I would. I would
20:56
Speaker 2: open that thing up to Matthews, to Jerpy, to Grisepho,
21:00
Speaker 2: to Bedell, although probably some of those other guys wouldn't
21:03
Speaker 2: be in there. Like I would open it up to
21:04
Speaker 2: everybody and say, all right, have at it. That fifth
21:06
Speaker 2: spot that is for whoever can take the reins, even
21:09
Speaker 2: though spring training doesn't matter at all. We're gonna make
21:11
Speaker 2: this real open, make this open to everybody. And that's
21:14
Speaker 2: what I would do. And at that point, you make
21:16
Speaker 2: your bullpen better and you would also create uh that
21:19
Speaker 2: opportunity in camp No.
21:21
Speaker 1: And you know what I'm Glad we're in agreement because
21:23
Speaker 1: I can tell you right now what the Cardinals are
21:25
Speaker 1: going to do. They are going to bring Michael McGreevy
21:28
Speaker 1: in in the bullpen.
21:29
Speaker 2: Hm.
21:30
Speaker 1: They are going to stunt all that progress he made
21:32
Speaker 1: as a starter. And McGreevy has great makeup personality wise,
21:36
Speaker 1: that's something I do. You don't get to read in stats,
21:38
Speaker 1: you know. Uh, going through his triple A log, You're like, Okay,
21:41
Speaker 1: he's made some changes here, but his conviction in himself
21:44
Speaker 1: and his mentality I think is very big league. But
21:46
Speaker 1: they're gonna do what they always do, and I hope
21:48
Speaker 1: I'm wrong. They're gonna find this starting picturing prospect number
21:53
Speaker 1: one or first round draft pick, a lot of potential,
21:56
Speaker 1: finally got them figure out where he needs to be. Hey,
21:58
Speaker 1: go go throw them relief and then oh, no, we
22:01
Speaker 1: need a starter. But it can't be you because you've
22:04
Speaker 1: been a bullpen guy for the last month and you
22:06
Speaker 1: need to go more than two winnings. Let's go back
22:08
Speaker 1: to the drawing board. I mean, we've seen this with
22:10
Speaker 1: so many guys. I hope they do not do that.
22:12
Speaker 1: I think Mike McGreevey, like you said, is earn the
22:14
Speaker 1: opportunity to start. There are plenty of pictures they can
22:19
Speaker 1: choose from if they're going to build their bullpen. Internally.
22:22
Speaker 1: You talked about Libby. I think Livy is fantastic. I
22:24
Speaker 1: think he has a legitimate chance to be a promising
22:26
Speaker 1: setup man for his career if that's when he wants
22:28
Speaker 1: to be. I would like to see Gordon grissethoge another
22:32
Speaker 1: chance to start, but I think there's been some sustainability
22:34
Speaker 1: issues with the Velo over the last couple of years
22:36
Speaker 1: and that's been pretty consistent now. Or maybe he can
22:38
Speaker 1: get a chance to be in the bullpen. But I
22:40
Speaker 1: do not want to see Mike McGreevey in relief. I'm
22:42
Speaker 1: going to literally kick down Dusty Blake's story, even though
22:45
Speaker 1: it's not his decision, and I'm gonna tell him there
22:47
Speaker 1: is no way that Mike mcgreey should be coming.
22:50
Speaker 2: Out of the bullpen. Set the kids up for success.
22:54
Speaker 2: You know, you're not going to get lucky like you
22:56
Speaker 2: did with Andrea Pilante or a month into the year.
22:58
Speaker 2: You're going to send him down to become a star
23:00
Speaker 2: and he's going to have success. That's the rarity you
23:02
Speaker 2: could try that one hundred times over and it might
23:04
Speaker 2: be successful twenty five percent of the time at most.
23:07
Speaker 2: I would take the under at that point the chance
23:09
Speaker 2: of that being successful. So that's I guess. If you're
23:12
Speaker 2: not going to create like a real opportunity for the players,
23:14
Speaker 2: the young players at the minor league level, then you
23:16
Speaker 2: have to at least put them in a position where
23:18
Speaker 2: they will be able to have success in the long run. Now,
23:20
Speaker 2: you know, Zach Thompson is the perfect example that kid's
23:23
Speaker 2: been set up for failure in a lot of ways
23:25
Speaker 2: since the beginning of his time in the organization. You know,
23:27
Speaker 2: he comes out of COVID and they have him at
23:29
Speaker 2: Triple A even though he's not ready for Triple A,
23:31
Speaker 2: saying they did the same thing with Libertorre in a
23:33
Speaker 2: lot of ways too. So I think that the urgency
23:37
Speaker 2: to have these guys play a role, especially in a
23:40
Speaker 2: bullpen roll, have really hurt them over the years, and
23:42
Speaker 2: I think it's time to define a lot of their
23:45
Speaker 2: roles and also create that opportunity for them within their roles. Yeah,
23:48
Speaker 2: I agree with what you're saying.
23:50
Speaker 1: Especially because you've seen the cost of a starting pitcher
23:52
Speaker 1: these days. You can't go buy a rotation the Cardinals
23:55
Speaker 1: tried to do that last year and they bought and
23:57
Speaker 1: you know, an average rotation on paper at the some
24:00
Speaker 1: of the guys overperformed a little bit. I don't want
24:01
Speaker 1: to diminish that, but you can't go by a starting rotation.
24:04
Speaker 1: You have to draft and develop it. And since that
24:06
Speaker 1: was a key phrase for the Dewitz press conference, I
24:09
Speaker 1: would like to see the Cardinals do a much better
24:11
Speaker 1: job in the development part. So that's what I'm looking at.
24:14
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if the Matts versus McGreevy spring training
24:17
Speaker 1: battle is actually a battle for the Cardinals, but for
24:20
Speaker 1: me it is. I'm gonna make it one. That's what
24:22
Speaker 1: I'm looking at. And I'm also looking at Pedro Papaz
24:24
Speaker 1: and Avon Herrera. I think these are two cashers that okay,
24:29
Speaker 1: my Herrera tangent. First, I do not understand how a
24:33
Speaker 1: player goes through four levels of the minor leagues and
24:36
Speaker 1: gets to the majors and all of a sudden, that's
24:39
Speaker 1: when an organization realizes, hey, he's having a hard time
24:42
Speaker 1: throwing the ball the second base. I mean that he
24:45
Speaker 1: was going to the wrong side of the bag when
24:47
Speaker 1: he was first. I mean there was virtually no chance
24:48
Speaker 1: you could just run on him every day. And while
24:51
Speaker 1: some of that is on the player, the Cardinals, as
24:53
Speaker 1: we know, have been very very lenient on minor league coordinators.
24:56
Speaker 1: They did not have a catching coordinator, and this glaring
24:59
Speaker 1: oversights hell fell through the entire organization. So, no, Herrera
25:03
Speaker 1: is not the perfect catcher. He's got a strong bat.
25:05
Speaker 1: I like that. I think that's great. Cardinals needs to score.
25:09
Speaker 1: Pedro Paz came up and I don't think the Cardinals
25:11
Speaker 1: were really thinking they were going to see him at
25:12
Speaker 1: all in twenty twenty four, and I think he's overall
25:15
Speaker 1: the better defensive catcher. But when you're comparing the offense,
25:18
Speaker 1: I think the nod goes to Herrera. So who would
25:21
Speaker 1: you like to see in this position? Battle? And is
25:23
Speaker 1: there a way they can fifty to fifty this?
25:25
Speaker 2: So for me, it's it's Von Herrera all day. It's
25:27
Speaker 2: funny when you look at the metrics, the Pedro Pajes
25:30
Speaker 2: of it all. And no disrespect to Pedro Pajes, because
25:32
Speaker 2: everything I say from here is going to be disrespectful,
25:35
Speaker 2: and I would I want to try. But look, he's
25:37
Speaker 2: a really really nice guy who everybody really really loves
25:40
Speaker 2: as a human being, and because of that, he creates
25:43
Speaker 2: connections with pitchers that a lot of other young players don't,
25:48
Speaker 2: especially somebody who's maybe a little bit more selt spoken
25:51
Speaker 2: in a von Herrera. And you know, for me, all
25:55
Speaker 2: of those years of watching Herrera throw, he would he'd
25:58
Speaker 2: throw it to the second base side of second a
26:01
Speaker 2: lot on steals, but it was never as like it
26:03
Speaker 2: was at the major league level. So I still to
26:06
Speaker 2: this day, I don't know what went wrong. And when
26:08
Speaker 2: you look at when you look at the metrics of
26:11
Speaker 2: it all, and I know that that's a hot topic,
26:12
Speaker 2: but when you look at the metrics of it all,
26:15
Speaker 2: the difference in between defensive metrics or Herrera and pies
26:19
Speaker 2: Is is very very thin. As a matter of fact,
26:21
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, Herrera is a better defensive
26:24
Speaker 2: catcher than pies Is, But Herrera maybe doesn't make the
26:29
Speaker 2: same personal connections with the pitchers because of his personality,
26:33
Speaker 2: which is there's nothing wrong. He's just kind of like
26:35
Speaker 2: a soft guy. He's kind of a soft smoke it,
26:37
Speaker 2: soft spoken guy, a little a little tender in a
26:39
Speaker 2: lot of ways, and a little bit more cerebral on
26:42
Speaker 2: how he goes about it. As opposed to piece who's
26:44
Speaker 2: a little bit more vermose, a little bit louder, a
26:46
Speaker 2: little bit friendlier, you know. Uh, definitely the life of
26:49
Speaker 2: the party kind of thing, trying to make connections with everyone.
26:52
Speaker 2: So for me and for an opportunity, who who's who
26:55
Speaker 2: has your who gives you the better chance to win
26:57
Speaker 2: on a nightly basis, it's Avon Herrera and it's Avon
26:59
Speaker 2: Horrera a lot because the metrics are not that different.
27:03
Speaker 2: They don't throw base runners out at a at a
27:05
Speaker 2: different clip. It's all about the same Herraic gets better Johns.
27:09
Speaker 2: He has a stronger arm. It's just they have to
27:12
Speaker 2: get Herrera's mechanics in place so that he's throwing the
27:15
Speaker 2: ball to second instead of second, you.
27:18
Speaker 1: Know, sort of in the vicinity of second base, yeah,
27:22
Speaker 1: second base adjacent.
27:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that for me, it's it's about her
27:27
Speaker 2: It should be. And if you're looking towards the future,
27:30
Speaker 2: you know, Pedro Pajes Michael Sianni are really great parts,
27:35
Speaker 2: right like Pedro Payes. If that's your backup catcher, you're
27:38
Speaker 2: doing something really well. You're in a great spot. If
27:42
Speaker 2: Michael Siana is your fourth outfielder who comes in late
27:45
Speaker 2: in games and makes the defense better. Uh, then then
27:48
Speaker 2: you're in a really great spot. But those are not
27:50
Speaker 2: the kind of guys that you you that are going
27:53
Speaker 2: to start in the major leagues for a major league
27:55
Speaker 2: winning team. They can start in case of injuries, they
27:58
Speaker 2: can have fifteen game runs of twenty game runs, but
28:01
Speaker 2: they're not the kind of guys that you're going to
28:03
Speaker 2: see on championship caliber teams playing huge roles. So that's
28:08
Speaker 2: why I'm I'm all in on Herrera.
28:10
Speaker 1: Well, that's perfect segway because I was going to talk
28:12
Speaker 1: about our last position battle being centerfield, assuming new Bars
28:15
Speaker 1: actually in the corner outfield where he belongs, and it's
28:18
Speaker 1: between Sianni and Scott, And I think you and I
28:20
Speaker 1: have different opinions on this, but I agree with you
28:25
Speaker 1: on this part. Mike Sianni is a fourth outfielder with
28:29
Speaker 1: like a very specific skill set, elite speed, great defense, playoff.
28:33
Speaker 1: Teams win with that guy coming off the bench as
28:35
Speaker 1: a defensive replacement. Absolutely, if you're I do, I think
28:40
Speaker 1: he's the better center fielder right now comparative to Victor Scott.
28:43
Speaker 1: The second I do. But before everyone yells at me,
28:46
Speaker 1: I'll get to Victor I'm not a Victor Scott hater
28:48
Speaker 1: by any means. Just give me, give me some time
28:51
Speaker 1: right now. If you're trying to win baseball games, if
28:55
Speaker 1: Mike Siani's in center field playing every day, again, I agree,
28:59
Speaker 1: it's you know, not what the Los Angeles Dodgers or
29:01
Speaker 1: New York Mets would have, but he is their best
29:03
Speaker 1: option in center field right now. If your goal is
29:06
Speaker 1: to contend and build for the future, and use that
29:08
Speaker 1: word opportunity again, you need to run Victor Scott the
29:11
Speaker 1: second out there every day because he has the speed.
29:14
Speaker 1: You can't teach that well. You can't teach our good
29:18
Speaker 1: first steps, good reads, jump, any kind of route, and
29:22
Speaker 1: that was something that shocker. He was not taught in
29:24
Speaker 1: the minor leagues because there was stothing if you heard
29:28
Speaker 1: this before, no outfield coordinators, no cordators at all. So
29:31
Speaker 1: Victor Scott gets through the minor leagues of all this hype,
29:34
Speaker 1: and it's deserved because I think he's exciting and he
29:37
Speaker 1: makes all these plays, and he's able to make these
29:39
Speaker 1: plays because he is so fast, and nobody is looking
29:42
Speaker 1: at the jump, at the route, at the read anything
29:45
Speaker 1: to say he's below league average in this, he has
29:47
Speaker 1: to get to the major leagues and sit down with
29:50
Speaker 1: the coaching staff when they're pointing out all of the
29:52
Speaker 1: stuff that he's actually behind at and he has no idea.
29:55
Speaker 1: That's not fair to the player by any means. And
29:57
Speaker 1: I think he handled learning all of that at the
29:59
Speaker 1: end of the Sea and Stride. I think that was
30:01
Speaker 1: a testament to him. I think it'll make him better.
30:03
Speaker 1: But if you want to get these players opportunities and
30:05
Speaker 1: you want to see what this next core if you will,
30:08
Speaker 1: can do, you got to run Victor Scott the second
30:10
Speaker 1: out there every day, and you got to make sure
30:12
Speaker 1: that those wreaths can develop at the major league level.
30:14
Speaker 1: You got to make sure that the bat develops. So
30:15
Speaker 1: I am under the impression that if you're going to
30:18
Speaker 1: lack one position offensively, it should be center field if
30:21
Speaker 1: you're making up for it with elite defense. So that's
30:24
Speaker 1: where I'm at. I think it's going to be. I
30:26
Speaker 1: think Sianni comes into camp with the major nod over Scott,
30:29
Speaker 1: But again, it depends on what you're looking for, winning
30:31
Speaker 1: right now or winning in the long term. I think
30:34
Speaker 1: the Cardinals are still a little bit in the middle
30:35
Speaker 1: and what they want to do there.
30:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it. I think I'm really anxious to
30:39
Speaker 2: see the steps that Victor Scott has taken. You know,
30:41
Speaker 2: when he didn't incorporate that that leg kick for timing
30:45
Speaker 2: in the box, you started to see him get to
30:47
Speaker 2: some of his offensive potential. It took that long. It
30:50
Speaker 2: took that mechanic, by the way, that was something that
30:52
Speaker 2: we talked about quite a bit. We wanted him to see.
30:55
Speaker 2: I can't like, if I had a dollar for every
30:56
Speaker 2: time I was like, can somebody teach us kid a
30:58
Speaker 2: leg kick? Please just get him get his leg moving
31:00
Speaker 2: a little bit, get to some of that athleticism. Like
31:02
Speaker 2: everything for him should be about getting to that athleticism.
31:05
Speaker 2: And it's amazing to me that's not happening until right
31:07
Speaker 2: now that they're right, because you.
31:08
Speaker 1: Can't teach that athleticism. That's a gift. Yeah, you can
31:11
Speaker 1: teach everything else, but they refuse to capitalize on it.
31:13
Speaker 2: Hopefully that changes absolutely, But no, you're you're right, Like,
31:17
Speaker 2: that's all of these years the Cardinals had that out
31:20
Speaker 2: of Michael Cianni and for their playoff run they would
31:23
Speaker 2: have benefited greatly from that. But I just think, like,
31:26
Speaker 2: if you're talking about a defensive, a defensive minded, defensive
31:29
Speaker 2: first center fielder like your your cap, like your bottom
31:33
Speaker 2: has to be Harrison Bader, depending on what the rest
31:36
Speaker 2: of your lineup looks like. But you know, Harrison Vader
31:39
Speaker 2: had a little bit of power, a little bit of zip,
31:41
Speaker 2: a little bit of everything, and you know it makes
31:43
Speaker 2: up for some of the times when he's not good.
31:45
Speaker 2: And Michael Sianni just isn't Harrison Bader. He doesn't have
31:48
Speaker 2: that potential. It's not there. But no, you're right to
31:50
Speaker 2: be a fourth outfielder on a championship team. Every one
31:53
Speaker 2: of the teams in the playoffs last year would have
31:55
Speaker 2: killed to have had somebody like Michael Sianni coming off
31:57
Speaker 2: of the bench in that specific role. That's a great call.
32:01
Speaker 1: We'll see. I would expect two weeks from now that
32:05
Speaker 1: we'll see Mike Siani again getting the reps. But I
32:07
Speaker 1: would really like to see what Victor Scott has done
32:08
Speaker 1: after us winter, working with John Jay. That's going to
32:11
Speaker 1: be huge for the Cardinals. Even talking to John Jay
32:14
Speaker 1: and Daniel descalso did their media together and it was
32:17
Speaker 1: so refreshing because I think they have that experience, they
32:20
Speaker 1: were that core. They came up through the minor leagues together,
32:23
Speaker 1: drafted and developed. Drink every time you hear that the
32:26
Speaker 1: next six months. Yeah, but they did it right. They
32:29
Speaker 1: won when they were young players and they were part
32:31
Speaker 1: of that core. And I think if you're trying to
32:33
Speaker 1: build that next core, those two minimum are who should
32:36
Speaker 1: be in the organization. But we got to get to
32:40
Speaker 1: the part where you're going to shine. Oh boy, we
32:42
Speaker 1: got to talk about prospects. We're excited about. The best
32:44
Speaker 1: part of our spring training is everyone in the organization
32:46
Speaker 1: is there at the same time, and there are six
32:48
Speaker 1: little fields at Roger Dean Stadium and you can see
32:52
Speaker 1: anyone at any time. And for me, it's, you know,
32:55
Speaker 1: my only chance really to see someone like Quinn Matthew's
32:58
Speaker 1: last year or Cooper jer I just don't get to
33:00
Speaker 1: the minors enough. Sorry, I don't know if I have
33:03
Speaker 1: a choice, I don't know, Chicago or springfields. It's tough
33:05
Speaker 1: for me. But I like swing training because all of
33:08
Speaker 1: a sudden you're seeing like who really took strides? I
33:10
Speaker 1: mean I don't personally, I wasn't looking at Quinn Matthew's
33:13
Speaker 1: this time last year. Now he's going to be must
33:15
Speaker 1: watch action for me, who's the prospect you're most excited
33:18
Speaker 1: about coming into a twenty twenty four?
33:19
Speaker 2: How twenty Yeah, see that's what I'm talking about. Who
33:22
Speaker 2: knows what year it is? Who can keep this stuff straight?
33:27
Speaker 1: Not me?
33:28
Speaker 2: Not me either. I almost a twenty twenty five, like you,
33:31
Speaker 2: trying to think back on twenty twenty. I couldn't even
33:32
Speaker 2: figure and figure out twenty twenty two. If you could
33:34
Speaker 2: understand the math that went in my head when I
33:36
Speaker 2: was trying to count back to the twenty twenty two
33:38
Speaker 2: as if I don't know it's the twenty twenty two playoffs.
33:39
Speaker 1: But yeah, no, if you think that's bad, you s'ou
33:42
Speaker 1: just see me try to calculate ERA. I actually do
33:44
Speaker 1: it by hand, so I would like log the starts,
33:47
Speaker 1: I'd log the numbers. And Daniel Guerrero covers the Cardinals
33:50
Speaker 1: for the Post Dispatch, so this next to me, and
33:52
Speaker 1: he looks at me. He goes, what are you doing?
33:54
Speaker 1: And I was like calculating RA and he was like, one,
33:57
Speaker 1: first of all, my math is totally wrong. He goes,
33:59
Speaker 1: you know all you have to you on baseball references,
34:00
Speaker 1: click these two things and it does it for you.
34:02
Speaker 1: And I was like oh, oh my gosh. I've been
34:06
Speaker 1: a baseball writer professionally for six years now, Thank you, Daniel.
34:09
Speaker 1: So I get it. Okay, let's get on it.
34:13
Speaker 2: Well, you know there there for me, there's gonna be
34:15
Speaker 2: plenty that I'm gonna be keeping a close eye on.
34:17
Speaker 2: Uh not just like not just the guys that are
34:20
Speaker 2: major league and major league adjacent, you know. Uh, I
34:23
Speaker 2: think I think sem Robarsa and Thomas A JC are
34:26
Speaker 2: some of the like the guys that are maybe getting
34:29
Speaker 2: a little bit more play than they deserve. But uh,
34:32
Speaker 2: you know, it really boils down to a group of
34:35
Speaker 2: really interesting pictures outside of Quinn, Matthews and maybe even
34:39
Speaker 2: tink Kents, but I'll include tinku In, Tako A, Robi,
34:43
Speaker 2: tink Kents, and Cooper Jerpy for me that those would
34:46
Speaker 2: be the three for me. Gordon gricefo you you you
34:49
Speaker 2: hit on exactly what I think. I think Gricepho should
34:52
Speaker 2: be giving a chance to take the Andrew kitchen Age role.
34:55
Speaker 2: Like I think that he has a potential, especially if
34:57
Speaker 2: this basketball plays up. But I do think we're getting
34:59
Speaker 2: to the point with Grisepho where his best path to
35:02
Speaker 2: the majors is in the bullpen, and then maybe if
35:05
Speaker 2: he continues to toy with his fastball, the shape of
35:07
Speaker 2: his fastball, the movement profile in his fastball, then somewhere
35:10
Speaker 2: down the line he might be a starter. But that's
35:12
Speaker 2: where I like to see him. But it really comes
35:13
Speaker 2: down to that group of three. The hence Robie and
35:17
Speaker 2: Jerpy because they all have health issues, but they all
35:21
Speaker 2: are major league caliber pitchers. I've gone on record many
35:25
Speaker 2: times as saying that I think Cooper Jerpy is the
35:29
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say it. I think he's the best
35:31
Speaker 2: pitching prospect in the organization that includes Quinn Matthews. He
35:34
Speaker 2: doesn't have the velocity, but aside from that, all of
35:36
Speaker 2: his stuff is better, and it's filthier, and it comes
35:38
Speaker 2: from a weird angle, and it all comes from the
35:40
Speaker 2: same release point, and he gets righty's out, and he
35:42
Speaker 2: gets swings from rities that no other pitcher in the
35:45
Speaker 2: organization gets, left handed or right handed. He's just a really,
35:49
Speaker 2: really filthy, filthy monster. If he's healthy, and again, if
35:52
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are giving him the opportunity to be a
35:55
Speaker 2: pitcher instead of putting him on a ridiculous forty five
35:58
Speaker 2: pitch count or sixty five pitch count until June and
36:01
Speaker 2: then expecting him to maintain health throughout the season. So Jerpy,
36:06
Speaker 2: Hence and Roby are the three I'm anxious to see most.
36:09
Speaker 2: And then you know everybody's gonna say, JJ Weatherholts, I'm
36:11
Speaker 2: excited about Weatherholts. I'm not as excited about Weatherholts as
36:15
Speaker 2: everybody else's. I think he's the kind of prospect you
36:18
Speaker 2: that is dangerously good and has the chance to be
36:22
Speaker 2: dangerously good in spring that maybe maybe makes you think
36:26
Speaker 2: that he's major league ready when he's not nearly major
36:29
Speaker 2: league ready like that, that kind of dangerous. Like that's
36:32
Speaker 2: when prospects are at their most dangerous, when they start
36:34
Speaker 2: flashing like they're capable and they're not. They're not capable yet.
36:37
Speaker 2: So the only other person really that I point to there,
36:40
Speaker 2: along with some of the guys way down on the list,
36:42
Speaker 2: is Chase Davis. I am fired up to see where
36:44
Speaker 2: Chase Davis is both mentally and physically and in his
36:48
Speaker 2: approach because I hope the Cardinals pull because I can't
36:52
Speaker 2: remember if he's on NRI list or not, And if
36:54
Speaker 2: he's not on there, all right, okay, cool, then I
36:56
Speaker 2: hope that they use him as often as possible. I
36:58
Speaker 2: don't think he's major league ready, but I think that
37:00
Speaker 2: this is a great test for him and also a
37:02
Speaker 2: great test for the Cardinals to show him that they
37:04
Speaker 2: trust him and that they believe in him, and that
37:06
Speaker 2: they're really proud of the steps that he made mid
37:08
Speaker 2: season last year to change himself, to rediscover some of
37:11
Speaker 2: his prospects standing. So, you know, there's players down the
37:15
Speaker 2: line that could make their way to the major league
37:18
Speaker 2: side of camp, like Dakota Harris is kind of an
37:20
Speaker 2: odd utility player who I find myself fascinated with. I
37:24
Speaker 2: you know, there's a bunch of players that might make
37:27
Speaker 2: their way, but those are the ones that I'm most
37:29
Speaker 2: focused on because they're the ones who actually, if an
37:31
Speaker 2: opportunity is presented to them, might actually be able to
37:34
Speaker 2: make do with something and might be able to make
37:36
Speaker 2: something more out of it.
37:38
Speaker 1: That's good, that's exciting. And I'm glad you brought up
37:40
Speaker 1: Chase Davis because you know, this is the first round
37:42
Speaker 1: pick in twenty three and I've been watching his usage
37:48
Speaker 1: in the minor leagues of the lower levels, you know,
37:51
Speaker 1: and I was always you know, talking to people and
37:53
Speaker 1: player development and just my own experience. If you have
37:57
Speaker 1: a number one first round draft pick, he should be
38:00
Speaker 1: hitting top of the lineup for a second third. I
38:03
Speaker 1: don't care what he profiled as as a major league hitterer,
38:05
Speaker 1: right because you want to get him as many reps
38:07
Speaker 1: as possible, stick him at the top of the order,
38:09
Speaker 1: let it fly. And there were so many times last
38:11
Speaker 1: year where Chase Davis for High A Is batting seventh
38:15
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, I'm not a director of player development.
38:19
Speaker 1: I don't love that he's a top pick for you guys.
38:22
Speaker 1: There was so much hyper around him when the Cardinals
38:24
Speaker 1: drafted him. Get him more reps. So I do hope
38:27
Speaker 1: we see him in spring training, and I'm interested to
38:29
Speaker 1: see how Rob's ortfolio takes over the farm system. I'm
38:32
Speaker 1: excited to see what those guys you mentioned Roby, hence Jerpy.
38:36
Speaker 1: What's that Pierpont gonna do as the director of pitchy
38:39
Speaker 1: Is that same mentality of keeping these guys on their
38:41
Speaker 1: forty to fifty pitch limits in the minors? Is that
38:44
Speaker 1: I hope not going to be the same. But I
38:46
Speaker 1: think we're going to see a major change in usage
38:49
Speaker 1: of these players, which is going to go beyond Spring training,
38:51
Speaker 1: of course into the minor leagues, but it is so
38:54
Speaker 1: necessary to actually see what they have in terms of
38:57
Speaker 1: developing these pitchers, these players, because for a very long time,
39:00
Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of questions about the
39:01
Speaker 1: strategy going on behind that.
39:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, Russ Steinhorn and his group and
39:05
Speaker 2: the hitting side have all done a really great job
39:08
Speaker 2: with development, and they do try their hardest. And again,
39:11
Speaker 2: this is one of those things we're gonna we're gonna
39:13
Speaker 2: be able to watch change before our eyes. But they
39:15
Speaker 2: do give their managers quite a bit of runway to
39:18
Speaker 2: do what they would like with the roster. I'm with you, though.
39:21
Speaker 2: It's something I've bitched in wine and complained about quite
39:24
Speaker 2: a bit over the years about a lineup construction at
39:27
Speaker 2: the minor league level. And hopefully that is one thing
39:29
Speaker 2: that we do see change, because you know when even
39:33
Speaker 2: one bin show like one Bin Chow the outfield prospect
39:36
Speaker 2: with a ton of tools but just a really hard
39:39
Speaker 2: time applying it until the end of every minor league
39:41
Speaker 2: season and then he kind of comes alive like it's
39:44
Speaker 2: gonna be frustrating, but that guy has to bet first second,
39:48
Speaker 2: maybe fit at the latest in the lineup, and it
39:50
Speaker 2: should never be later than that, even if he's hitting
39:52
Speaker 2: one hundred in a month, because it just shouldn't like
39:55
Speaker 2: he's too talented, too good, too athletic to you know,
40:00
Speaker 2: I guess only get three at bats a game, two
40:02
Speaker 2: point nine at bats a.
40:03
Speaker 1: Game or whatever, How does it tell it there?
40:05
Speaker 2: He doesn't exactly. It's impossible to especially, Like I guess,
40:11
Speaker 2: I've come a long way in how I view people
40:14
Speaker 2: in general, and one of the things, like I with prospects,
40:18
Speaker 2: I like to be a little bit more coddling. I
40:20
Speaker 2: think you need to be a little bit more careful,
40:21
Speaker 2: a little bit more deliberate. But I do think you
40:25
Speaker 2: find out who the cream of the crop is, and
40:27
Speaker 2: part of that is putting their feet to the fire.
40:29
Speaker 2: Like I think about Brendan Donovan. You know, Brendan Donovan,
40:32
Speaker 2: he fought and he worked and he you know, murdered
40:36
Speaker 2: his way, you know, to get to where he was at.
40:40
Speaker 2: And that was because every time an opportunity presented itself
40:43
Speaker 2: in a pressure situation to come through or to do
40:46
Speaker 2: something big, he did it. And I think you need
40:48
Speaker 2: to do that with the prospects that you think actual
40:51
Speaker 2: actually have a real chance at the major league level,
40:53
Speaker 2: which is part of my concern with someone like Cooper Jerpy,
40:55
Speaker 2: who they put on a forty five pitch count or
40:56
Speaker 2: a sixty five pitch count in a game, and then
40:59
Speaker 2: two months into the mor league season, you know, you're
41:01
Speaker 2: asking him to get into the sixth inning on an
41:03
Speaker 2: eighty pitch count, and it's not an easy thing to
41:07
Speaker 2: work your way through. And he did it magnificently until
41:09
Speaker 2: he had a little arm inflammation in July, and then
41:13
Speaker 2: they just shut him down because they didn't want to
41:15
Speaker 2: risk it, even though it was just inflammation and he
41:17
Speaker 2: was fine as real fast. My buddy kareem over at
41:21
Speaker 2: Redword Rant on their on their podcast, they interviewed Cooper Jerpy.
41:25
Speaker 2: I think it's a Cardinals farm or whatever. I can't
41:27
Speaker 2: think of what the name of the podcast is, but
41:29
Speaker 2: they interviewed him and that's what he said. He said,
41:31
Speaker 2: I just had a little inflammation. I was fine, and
41:34
Speaker 2: they just to be cautious with me. They shut me down,
41:36
Speaker 2: and I get that, but he's not an eighteen year
41:39
Speaker 2: old tink heents. He's a twenty two to twenty three
41:41
Speaker 2: year old Oregon State alone, right.
41:43
Speaker 1: He's a college product. That's why you draft college products
41:46
Speaker 1: to speed along this process. Absolutely.
41:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, he got hurt the year before, had a
41:51
Speaker 2: clean up surgery in his elbow, But like, if he's
41:54
Speaker 2: pitched one hundred and twenty six innings in college, even
41:57
Speaker 2: a year removed from having just some stuff removed from
41:59
Speaker 2: his elbow, needs to be on a trick to get
42:01
Speaker 2: to one hundred and twenty innings. And you know what,
42:03
Speaker 2: if inflammation goes down in his elbow, you need to
42:05
Speaker 2: get him out there at the end of August in
42:07
Speaker 2: a double A or triple A game. Like, there is
42:10
Speaker 2: a fine line between caddling and also giving your players
42:12
Speaker 2: a chance to persevere in tough situations, and I'm hopeful
42:16
Speaker 2: that the new regime does more of that. Well.
42:19
Speaker 1: I'm certainly excited to see that take place come spring training.
42:22
Speaker 1: Like I said, not only are all the players and
42:24
Speaker 1: prospects at one place, everyone in the organization is at
42:26
Speaker 1: one place. So you cannot hide from me. No, they can.
42:30
Speaker 1: They do a very good job. There are a lot
42:32
Speaker 1: of places tied for me, apparently because I'm only allowed
42:34
Speaker 1: to go in certain areas. Rude, No, Kyle, this has
42:37
Speaker 1: been awesome. I think your insight you mentioned Kareem. He
42:40
Speaker 1: does a really insightful job covering things I could never
42:42
Speaker 1: even have the capacity to get to just from my
42:45
Speaker 1: mind alone. You guys, you've always been such a prominent
42:48
Speaker 1: voice when it comes to minor leagues and prospects, and
42:49
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll see you posting stuff and
42:51
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, this is a good reminder I need
42:53
Speaker 1: to stay up to date on this guy. So thank
42:55
Speaker 1: you and congratulations. By the way, because rumor has it
42:59
Speaker 1: is that you are Brian Walton on a podcast every
43:01
Speaker 1: week Wednesday with Walton and Reese Creative. Are you at
43:06
Speaker 1: like an Applebee's In this photo where are you doing
43:09
Speaker 1: this podcast from?
43:11
Speaker 2: You wouldn't know, but that's that's the Green Seat, That's
43:14
Speaker 2: the Cardinal Club, That's where the hot band from that area.
43:22
Speaker 2: Mister Walton is in the area where the whoever was signing,
43:25
Speaker 2: right in the Green Seat area. And then because we
43:28
Speaker 2: had terrible feedback, I had to find like a booth somewhere,
43:32
Speaker 2: And honestly, it might have been better if I would
43:34
Speaker 2: have been at an Applebee's. At least I could have
43:35
Speaker 2: got like dollar margaritas or whatever those things are.
43:39
Speaker 1: No, that's hilarious. I've actually been asked to go around
43:41
Speaker 1: and not use a championship club when I'm walking to
43:43
Speaker 1: the stadium, so not only was that was like a
43:45
Speaker 1: pretty sick double burn. Thank you for that.
43:47
Speaker 2: You're welcome for asking you to come on the show.
43:51
Speaker 1: This is awesome, Kyle. For those of you who are
43:53
Speaker 1: not familiar with Kyle's work one what are you doing?
43:56
Speaker 1: You can follow him on Twitter at Kyle R four
43:59
Speaker 1: one six, and you can follow us on Twitter as
44:02
Speaker 1: well at card Territory. I can subscribe to our page
44:04
Speaker 1: on YouTube if you haven't already. If you have, thank
44:06
Speaker 1: you very much. You can find us on Spotify and Apple.
44:09
Speaker 1: Kyle any last words, No.
44:12
Speaker 2: I've got nothing, Just thank you for having me. I
44:14
Speaker 2: feel honored in such a large way to be a
44:18
Speaker 2: part of this. Thank you, Katie.
44:19
Speaker 1: No, this was so much fun. I'll happily have you
44:21
Speaker 1: back anytime. Hopefully we have some exciting player development things
44:25
Speaker 1: to discuss soon. Tremor Rosenthal is back on Tuesday again.
44:29
Speaker 1: Sorry for the later podcast, but no one needed to
44:31
Speaker 1: hear me talk on Friday. We'll be back and we're
44:34
Speaker 1: going to have some pretty fun interviews set up over
44:36
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks, a lot of fun things
44:39
Speaker 1: in the works, and one of these days again we
44:42
Speaker 1: will have potentially like an episode to talk about a transaction,
44:45
Speaker 1: so we'll see. For Kyle Reese, I'm Katie Wu. Thanks
44:48
Speaker 1: for tuning in. We will talk next week. This is
44:51
Speaker 1: Cardinal Territory, New Jo