Latest / 360 with Katie Woolf / NT Police Association President Paul McCue says 86 per cent of respondents to its latest members’ survey say they’ve considered leaving the force in the last six to 12 months

Transcript

NT Police Association President Paul McCue says 86 per cent of respondents to its latest members’ survey say they’ve considered leaving the force in the last six to 12 months · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, if you've just joined us.
• 0:01
  Speaker 2: We did reveal on the show throughout the week that
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: was that the Northern Territory Police Association have released their
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: results from their latest member survey. It confirms their members
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: believe the Northern Territory Police Force is critically understaffed and
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: under resourced, and that members feel completely abandoned by the
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Northern Territory government. Now joining me on the line to
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  Speaker 2: tell us more about the survey is the Northern Territory
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Police Association President Paul McHugh.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Good morning, Paul, Yeah, good morning, Katie.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: How are you not too bad? Paul?
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  Speaker 2: In total one thousand, two hundred and two member responses,
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  Speaker 2: is that the largest ever survey response you've had? Ay?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: It is.
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  Speaker 3: We Traditionally, you know, when you do a survey of
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: this nature, you always want to reach over fifty percent
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  Speaker 3: of your workforce as a return rate. That normally gives
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: you some pretty good data to work with. And the
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  Speaker 3: fact we've had seventy four percent of our membership reply
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: to this survey, I think shows you just how they're
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: feeling right now out there.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So let's go through the results, Paul. Ninety seven point
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  Speaker 2: six percent of respondents do not feel that there are
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: enough police to do what's being asked of them. Is
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  Speaker 2: there some detail in terms of what officers said when
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: responding to that question.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the exact same question we asked back last year,
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  Speaker 3: about six months ago in our survey, and the result
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  Speaker 3: then was around ninety three percent didn't feel they had
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  Speaker 3: enough police out there on the road. So the fact
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  Speaker 3: that's risen to you know, almost ninety eight percent shows
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  Speaker 3: you just how they're feeling. We know, we get direct feedback,
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  Speaker 3: of course, into our office almost daily about the struggles
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: to staff the front line. And when you look at
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: the actual questions or only five short questions we asked,
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  Speaker 3: and the remaining four questions are all directly impacted on
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: that very first one, and it's all about resourcing. If
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  Speaker 3: you don't actually have that right, the remainder of those
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  Speaker 3: that come as no surprise to us.
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  Speaker 2: All right, So eighty point seven percent rated morale as
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: low or very low.
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  Speaker 1: Why do they feel that way?
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  Speaker 3: Well, obviously, you know when you're turning up to work
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  Speaker 3: and we've got some incredibly dedicated people out there. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: we're at a meeting just a couple of days ago
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  Speaker 3: with forty or fifty officers and they are really putting
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: in everything. They're giving one hundred and ten percent every day.
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  Speaker 3: But when they turn up to work and they are
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: the only van on shift, or they just feel like
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  Speaker 3: they're carrying twenty or thirty investigations, they just can't provide
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  Speaker 3: the service to those people who are victims of crime
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  Speaker 3: that they really want to because they just simply don't
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  Speaker 3: have the numbers. It really affects how you feel. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: they go to work and they want to do their
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  Speaker 3: very best, but when they don't have the you know,
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  Speaker 3: the numbers to actually support them, that really affects them
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  Speaker 3: around and of course they just get quite dejected because
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  Speaker 3: they're just simply turning up and always being the ones
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  Speaker 3: on duty without sufficient support.
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  Speaker 2: Ninety six point seven percent of officers are saying they do
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  Speaker 2: not feel supported by the Northern Territory government. Why are
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: they not feeling supported by the government at this point?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think there's a couple of factors that
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  Speaker 3: play there, and of course none more so than you know,
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  Speaker 3: they consider what they've done for government, particularly over the
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: last three years. But of course every single day, you know,
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  Speaker 3: they go over and above. We've seen some horrific assaults
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  Speaker 3: on our members recently about what they do to put
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  Speaker 3: their body on the line on behalf of the government.
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  Speaker 3: So when the government are dragging the chain on things
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  Speaker 3: like the pay deal, and obviously when they feel like
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  Speaker 3: they just simply need more police and there's no police
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  Speaker 3: to give, they feel let down of course by the government.
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  Speaker 3: The government ultimately is responsible for the budget and the
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  Speaker 3: funding of these numbers, and they just feel let down
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  Speaker 3: because of those reasons.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and then obviously eighty six point eight percent support
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: a work to Rule industrial campaign. What exactly does that mean, Pall.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's very much specific to our pay deal, and
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  Speaker 3: obviously it's the last thing we want to do and
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  Speaker 3: try and ask our members to do. But what that
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  Speaker 3: just simply means is it's a clear message to government
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  Speaker 3: if they don't want to come to the table and
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  Speaker 3: don't want to really discuss this pay deal and get
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  Speaker 3: it sorted. Our members have very much made it clear
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  Speaker 3: to us that they support a work to raw and
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  Speaker 3: that simply means they will go in and they will
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  Speaker 3: do their job absolutely one hundred percent to the fullest.
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  Speaker 3: But we're talking about things, I mean, you would be
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  Speaker 3: amazed at just how many times a shift is covered
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  Speaker 3: by overtime. When you see a van driving around on
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  Speaker 3: the street, quite often those people are working a double
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  Speaker 3: shift or they've come in on their day off to
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  Speaker 3: do that shift. That is simply not sustainable policing. It's
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  Speaker 3: not fair on the organization and the commissioner that's trying
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  Speaker 3: to run the organization. It means there's not enough police.
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  Speaker 3: So of course they want to send a clear message
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  Speaker 3: to government. This is how they're feeling, and that is
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  Speaker 3: evidence that they're all willing to do it.
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  Speaker 2: Eighty five point three percent of those respondents have considered
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  Speaker 2: exit strategy from the Northern Territory Police Force in the
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  Speaker 2: last six to twelve months.
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  Speaker 1: This is quite unbelievably.
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  Speaker 3: I think that's probably one of the most you know,
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  Speaker 3: I guess, startling results out of this survey. When you
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  Speaker 3: look at the attrition rate for Northern Territory Police traditionally
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  Speaker 3: are the last ten years of somewhere, it's sat somewhere
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  Speaker 3: between that five and four and five percent mark, and
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  Speaker 3: that's that's fairly well average across most states in Australia,
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  Speaker 3: but certainly the last two years, particularly the twenty one
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  Speaker 3: to twenty two year it's gone from four percent to
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  Speaker 3: eight point five percent and then to ten point five percent.
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  Speaker 3: So you can actually see that dramatic rise in the
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  Speaker 3: last two or three years and those results that we've
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  Speaker 3: obviously released today. To think about the number of police
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  Speaker 3: a year, number of police that have actually considered looking
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  Speaker 3: at alternate work, I mean, that's directly reflective, of course,
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  Speaker 3: in the way they're feeling by turning up to work
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: not having enough staff to do the job. They just
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  Speaker 3: simply had enough and they're looking elsewhere, which is obviously
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  Speaker 3: the last thing we need.
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  Speaker 1: Paul.
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  Speaker 2: This is not the first time that we've had startling
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  Speaker 2: results from a server. I mean, as you just touched on,
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  Speaker 2: not so long ago, we had a survey that told
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  Speaker 2: an incredibly similar story. It's clear to me, based on
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  Speaker 2: the results that have come out today that not a
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  Speaker 2: lot has changed since that last survey was released.
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  Speaker 3: No, I think that's probably a really important point. I mean,
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  Speaker 3: we released results I think in about August of last year.
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  Speaker 3: Certainly the points around the actual numbers in terms of
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  Speaker 3: ninety plus percent saying there's not and these other people
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  Speaker 3: on the ground that are doing the job. So it's
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  Speaker 3: fine to say we're investing more than ever before, and
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  Speaker 3: we are obviously trying to recruit as many as we
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  Speaker 3: possibly can, So there's no issue there, but the fact
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  Speaker 3: we've got so many who have left in the last
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  Speaker 3: two years and so many looking to leave. I think
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  Speaker 3: that the real concern for us is we've provided this
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  Speaker 3: evidence last year and nothing seems to have change, and
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  Speaker 3: in fact the results say it's getting worse. Coupled that, Katie,
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  Speaker 3: with interstate jurisdictions actively targeting our officers, and of course
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  Speaker 3: Queensland announcing yesterday they've done a deal with government to
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  Speaker 3: recruit five hundred overseas police to actually come and work
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  Speaker 3: in the Queensland Police Service. That's how That's the lengths
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  Speaker 3: other organizations and governments are going to to attract people,
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  Speaker 3: and we are behind the April without a doubt. Paul.
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  Speaker 2: You know, there's obviously a stating here as we've gone
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  Speaker 2: through about people within the force, those officers not feeling
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  Speaker 2: supported by the Northern Territory government. But look, it would
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  Speaker 2: be remiss of me not to ask why there wasn't
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  Speaker 2: a question in there about whether officers support the commissioner
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  Speaker 2: and executives.
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  Speaker 3: Well, ultimately, I don't think it's necessary. I mean last
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: year we provided that question to the membership, they had
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  Speaker 3: their say. You know the results were were there last
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: year in August. This is very much about the people
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  Speaker 3: that can actually make a difference in terms of the funding.
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  Speaker 3: We know the funding and the numbers have not met
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  Speaker 3: demand for some years and that is a government responsibility. Now. Now,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not here to criticize the Commissioner today, I'm here
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  Speaker 3: to criticize a government who haven't over the last six
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  Speaker 3: years invested heavily enough in making sure we're ahead of
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  Speaker 3: the game. Remember the year prior to the last election,
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  Speaker 3: they did not recruit one constable for the entire year. Now,
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  Speaker 3: that is no one else's responsibility but government, and that
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  Speaker 3: fairly and squarely falls on their shoulders, and our members
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  Speaker 3: are saying to them, enough is enough. Regardless of who's
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  Speaker 3: leading the organization, regardless if it's Commissioner Chalker or when
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  Speaker 3: it was Commissioner Kershaw mc roberts, it is ultimately the
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  Speaker 3: responsibility of government to make sure there's enough funding to
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  Speaker 3: have the police required to do the job.
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  Speaker 2: So do the Police Association have confidence in the Northern
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Territory government at the moment and the minister.
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  Speaker 3: We'll look at the moment. I mean, I do have
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  Speaker 3: a good relationship with the Minister. We do talk reagularly,
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  Speaker 3: but ultimately actions speak loud of the words, don't they.
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  Speaker 3: And ultimately it's our members who are saying, regardless of
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  Speaker 3: what the government is saying and assuring our membership, they're
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  Speaker 3: doing and we know they're recruiting, and we know they're
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  Speaker 3: keeping up or trying to keep up with attrition, but
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  Speaker 3: ultimately that seems to be not enough. They are under
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  Speaker 3: attack out there on the front line. The changes that
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: government have made in terms of legislation around the youth bail,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: around the Liquor Act, you know, a whole range of
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  Speaker 3: things have directly impacted their ability to do the job.
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  Speaker 3: And the increased numbers have not kept up with that requirement.
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  Speaker 2: All right, I'm sure that there'll be police officers listening
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  Speaker 2: this morning who you know, well who are either feeling
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: really you know, like they're probably feeling really passionately that
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: they either think the Minister's doing a great job or not,
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  Speaker 2: or that you know, they think the Commission is doing a.
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  Speaker 1: Great job or not.
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  Speaker 2: But what are the rank and files saying at the
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  Speaker 2: moment Paul, because look, to me, there seems to be
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: a breakdown somewhere. I don't know exactly where it is,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: but for our officers to be coming out in huge
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: numbers and telling you what they are telling you in
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: this survey, something is not working.
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  Speaker 3: Something's clearly not working. There's clearly a disconnect. As I said,
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: we had a meeting a couple of days ago, large
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: amount of police turned up to that meeting and they
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: really ultimately and it really does come back to them
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: coming to work and feeling like they have the amount
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: of people that are required to do the job. Now,
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: we have for many, many years been asking for minimum
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: staffing levels for people to be able to turn up
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: and know they're going to have two or three vans
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: on the road when they turn up. We know our
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: crime section for example, keeps getting pilfered when they need
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: police in Alis for example. I mean, we need to
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: have a model and a policing model. We know Victoria,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: we know Tasmania have done this. They've looked at safe
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: staffing models and minimum staffing levels and clearly that needs
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: to be a commitment from government to sit down and
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: work with us and work with the Commissioner to see
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: what actually that model looks like to make sure that
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: support's in place for our officers.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So, Paul, what is going to like?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: What are the next steps now with these survey results?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Because I feel as though last time we saw these
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: survey results there may have been some changes, there may
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: have been some tinkering around the edges, but based on
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: the most recent results, offices are still fed up.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: So what needs to happen now?
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Well, obviously, you know we are coming up to budget
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: time soon. The government can make a commitment at the
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: upcoming budget to really increase our staffing levels. I mean
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: it's not just the staffing on the front line, it's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: the support network. We know there's a wellbeing review that
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: was conducted last year. We know there's a lot of
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: work that needs to be done in that space, but
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: you need the funding to be able to do it.
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: The budget must reflect the concerns of the membership. The
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: budget must reflect that our members have had enough. And
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: if they don't commit, the government don't commit to making
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: some changes in terms of increasing staffing in numbers, you
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: know we are going to end up with it with
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: even more police leave our territory. Often for other jurisdictions.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: We just simply can't afford to keep doing that. We
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: can't have the turnover we've had and expect the community
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: to feel safe out there. It's just simply not sustainable.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Paul.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: We have got messages coming through this morning. There's one
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: here that says I left the police as the management
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: and morale.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Is so poor.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: The results of the survey are accurate, the Minister is
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: out of touch, and Jamie Chalker.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Needs to go.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean obviously that somebody's a view out there,
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: and obviously, you know, people will all have their opinions
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: about what this means and who's the cause of these
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: sorts of results. But ultimately our membership have had their say.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: Those results are for everyone to look at. The Government,
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: the Commission of the Senior Executive. We all want to
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: work together to make sure those results turn around. We
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: don't want to keep them going in the direction they're
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: going because we just can't afford it.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Do you believe that this can be turned around, Paul?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Do you think that the government and the executive have
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: the will to want it to all turn around?
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: Well, the answer to that will come in the next
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: few months when we see the budget when we see
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: a commitment from government around investment into policing. We know Queensland,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: we know Victoria, we know Tasmania. They've all invested in
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: additional police numbers over the last two or three years.
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: We have not done that. Our police numbers are stagnant.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: They haven't increased dramatically over the last ten years at all.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: And that is that is the results we're seeing today
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: as a result of that lack of investment. So the
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: next few months are critical and we really hope the
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: government are listening to our membership because if they're not
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: going to listen to them, who on earth will they
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: listen to?
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Paul?
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: Just before I let you go, there was an update,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: of course on that ax attack that happened at Daily River.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: The Northern Territory Police have charged two men following the
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: recent disturbances in the Naiu community. Now those two blokes,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: twenty four and twenty five, were arrested on Monday Now
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: been charged with a number of offenses including aggravated assault, being
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: armed with an offensive weapon at night, as well as
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: seriously in recklessly endangering serious harm. Both were bailed to
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: appear in the local court on the eighth of march.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Is that good enough from your perspective? Oh?
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Look, I mean it's obviously devastating for those officers to
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: see those people be bailed. We know that's one example.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: We know another example recently up here in Darwin where
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: officers were attacked with we are called secreateers, effectively large
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: bowl cutters. And we know that a particular individual who
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: could have received seven years when they pleaded guilty, received
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: one month. You know, I mean, these are the thoughts
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: of penalties that send the wrong message to police who
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: are out there putting their life on the line into
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: the community, because that's simply not good enough.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Police Association President Paul Mcue, We always appreciate your time.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: You thanks Catty, thank you,