Latest / The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective / The E1B2 2022 Recap Show Episode 5: Damon Cooper

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The E1B2 2022 Recap Show Episode 5: Damon Cooper · The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective

• 0:02
  All right. Perfect.
• 0:04
  Damon is it? Or is it Damon or Damien?
• 0:07
  Is Damon. I appreciate it.
• 0:08
  Thanks, AJ or quick know I'm a big fan of Damon Dash was a not
• 0:14
  sure. What type of musical taste you
• 0:15
  have but he was actually the person that founded Jay-Z who
• 0:19
  everyone knows. So yes, when I saw the name I
• 0:22
  usually go with Damon because the Damon back.
• 0:25
  But no, I appreciate you joining this podcast as I've been 100%
• 0:30
  you know as I've been telling every guest.
• 0:32
  You know, when I came up with this concept, I wanted to, you
• 0:36
  know, my podcast frankly and you've listened to a few
• 0:40
  episodes. It's a bit of a, you know, I
• 0:43
  don't want to call it a diary but it's definitely a bit of a,
• 0:45
  if you go through the catalog, you mean there's almost 700
• 0:50
  episode. So if you go in there to set
• 0:51
  smell three hundred interviews, but a lot of the content for the
• 0:55
  last 12 months has really been, you know, solo episodes, where
• 0:58
  I'm kind of just sharing some really passionate and thoughts.
• 1:01
  And, and so, Nice to have some guests on here and then it's
• 1:05
  also nice to just reflect on 2022 and looking to 2023.
• 1:09
  So you know I'll give you the floor for the next 90 seconds or
• 1:13
  so. Damon, please let us know.
• 1:14
  You know who you are where you're from and just a few nice
• 1:18
  things that you want to kind of talk about today and just any
• 1:22
  contextual nuances of your background you want to share
• 1:25
  absolutely listen. AJ really again I appreciate you
• 1:27
  having me here on the podcast I love opportunities to connect
• 1:31
  and Network. I work with people.
• 1:32
  In fact it's one of the things I commonly share in my interview
• 1:36
  process has the opportunity to help everybody and hopefully,
• 1:40
  you know, every everybody's situation is a little different
• 1:43
  and you've spoken to that as well as some of the other, you
• 1:46
  know, leaders and Future Leaders that you've had on your podcast
• 1:49
  in the past. So thanks again for having me.
• 1:52
  I'll give everybody a little, my background at this point in my
• 1:55
  life, believe it or not. I have held just at the amount
• 2:00
  of positions. Working for other organizations
• 2:04
  that it would take for me to statistically use the central
• 2:07
  limit theorem to actually make my experience is relevant.
• 2:12
  And so I say that with a caveat it's like people go.
• 2:15
  Wow, you've worked for 30 companies so I can demystify
• 2:19
  that a little bit but 30 organizations is a lot.
• 2:21
  Hold you like 70? No, but I do have legitimately
• 2:26
  over 40 42 and a half years of full-time experience at this
• 2:30
  point. If you factor it.
• 2:32
  It on eight hour days. That's because a lot of reasons
• 2:35
  in my past. That's because my parents filed
• 2:38
  bankruptcy going into school. I grew up in a non affluent area
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  for quite a while where I was very cautious.
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  I mean, even on the bus or getting off the bus about what
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  was going on around me. And so all these things I
• 2:54
  started working at super young age and I continued working to
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  put myself through school as they filed bankruptcy.
• 3:02
  She's so, so I think that's kind of important to understand.
• 3:04
  I'm coming from a background of leadership of more than, you
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  know, for years, I have experience in product
• 3:10
  management, product marketing, anything, really?
• 3:13
  That you can think about driving businesses.
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  Ford, my degree is formally in business management with
• 3:18
  marketing minor and information systems and I've worked with and
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  for some of the company's largest companies in the world
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  through Channel distribution like Sonia Lenovo DMC.
• 3:28
  I've worked with Gartner. Who's world's largest research
• 3:30
  advisory firm. I've worked with With now I
• 3:32
  solved been here for four years and love it.
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  And then I've also worked with a ton of small businesses doing
• 3:39
  consulting as well with my own business team, James media, that
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  I had a while back and and my wife's actually a sole
• 3:47
  proprietor as well. So, lots going on and lots of
• 3:50
  experience, and I'm bringing from different viewpoints and
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  all these people that I've spoken with and met along the
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  way. But that's why I'm so excited to
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  be here. Because I think you hit on some
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  very good topics and really, I'm Open to Dialogue on those and
• 4:04
  and continue that dialogue. Moving forward here in the
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  future. Well, I appreciate that and you
• 4:10
  know, you've done a little bit of a deep dive and I can
• 4:13
  definitely resonate with, with your layered past.
• 4:16
  You know, I as I'm sure you've heard, you know, I started my
• 4:20
  career at 19 and a very different way than most, you
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  know, I started out as a founder and had a some luck, some hard
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  work mixed in with a bunch of A bunch of other shit.
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  Pardon, my French that I don't really know how inevitably it
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  happened, but I was thankfully, put in the position to run a
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  pretty decent sized company. Do some things with Under Armour
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  early on and then very, similar to yourself.
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  I kind of just found myself continually working a number of
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  different jobs and roles, and fractional, capacities and
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  full-time capacities, and founder capacities, and
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  partnership capacity. So, to your point, I probably
• 4:59
  would be in the same boat. If I were to really sit there
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  and add up the The hours and add up the opportunities, and
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  probably pretty lengthy. And actually look at my
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  LinkedIn. It's the, the activity there is
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  actually pretty lengthy when the experience side there, too.
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  So, but no, thank you. Thank you for being on the
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  podcast. You know, I did a little bit of
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  a deep dive to some of your own content as well and just felt
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  that the conversation would be a good one to have.
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  So I'm appreciative. I do have ADD.
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  So please remind me of what we were discussing right before.
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  We hit record because I wanted to kind of lewd and talk to some
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  things on that topic before we officially hop in.
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  What what were we talking about? Yeah, absolutely.
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  So as a fun fact, I actually was diagnosed with ADHD late here in
• 5:46
  life just about two years ago. So genuinely understand and know
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  what it's like to, you know, have had a condition my whole
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  life which you know, has had some other things go along with
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  it. For instance, all those careers
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  that we mentioned, right? May not have even taken.
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  Shape the same way that they did prior.
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  So I've learned a lot, even a very last two years about things
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  that I could have even done differently or just things that
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  come with having different condition.
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  So, we were talking about recruiting, and mental health,
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  and Tei, and b or two passions as well.
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  But really, it's Career Development and recruiting
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  specifically around how people get where they want to be
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  believe, is some some of the things that we were discussing,
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  that's right. And there was one thing that I
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  feel like you were kind of alluding to a Did that I also am
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  experiencing because so, so here's a couple things and I
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  think I remember exactly where you were going with this.
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  We were discussing how at times, you know, recruiters internally,
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  do the very best to keep an open mind when recruiting and trying
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  to place talent, but at the end of the day, I think it is a very
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  natural human being Habit, or exercise or think that they do,
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  we're they've seen what's work and they want to replicate that
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  success versus potentially taking a risk on something that
• 7:09
  at paper, doesn't look like a very transferable skill, right?
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  And I think what we're and I would love to get your honest
• 7:16
  feedback on that because I have some very bold feedback myself,
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  but I would love to start with you.
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  We're is that an issue? Is that something we just need
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  to get over? Society and as potential
• 7:29
  applicants or is there, or is there an in-between of, you know
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  what, I have empathy around why is someone would go with worked
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  in the past /? We should start teaching our
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  recruiters and helping our recruiters be able to identify.
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  Look if you're gonna place this role here are some transferable
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  skills. Titles areas of work experience,
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  that maybe you should still. Also look at these type of
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  people because there could be some nice Crossover and mix of
• 7:58
  capability. What are your thoughts?
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  And all that, man? I love that.
• 8:01
  You brought it up to and I and please, you know, you swing for
• 8:05
  the fences as well, because I'm an open book what I'd say is
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  this. It's actually well, beyond
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  recruiters. I mean, especially if you factor
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  in the differences between something like agency,
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  recruiting and corporate recruiting.
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  Right? A lot of times it goes back to
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  almost one of the things that you've been talking a lot about
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  in your podcast, as which is leadership and Reality is that
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  everybody's busy, everybody's driving towards kpi's towards
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  the rubrics, as you said in your podcast, right?
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  Their goals and no matter how you want to frame it and
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  structure. It, whether you're publicly or
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  privately owned organization, there are things that this
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  organization wants to accomplish.
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  So, I think in the real world we have to acknowledge that that is
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  where we have to start. And because of that, a lot of
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  times behaviors fall in place, To support it.
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  So if I said, hey, like you have an option of going across the
• 9:02
  street to get gas and it's going to cost you, you know, 98 cents.
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  And you know, the gas is good 98 cents per gallon which is
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  phenomenal rate for today. I don't remember the last time I
• 9:14
  saw that but or you know what? There's another really good
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  ending to solo and owned non-corporate, gas station.
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  It's two more blocks away. It'll take a little more time
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  and effort. And you know, it's going to be
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  99 cents per gallon. If we're being honest, I think
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  most people's immediate behavior when they're busy is to Simply
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  drive across the street. Does that make sense makes
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  perfect? I think that it's not an even in
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  necessarily an intentional thing.
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  And I feel like from a leadership perspective that's
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  part of like potentially the opportunity to create time and
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  space for leaders to not only develop Develop themselves, but
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  to really be conscious of their teams.
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  They're hiring managers. And and going, what do we need
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  for this position? Because if you're a good
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  recruiter, that's where you start.
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  What am? I hiring managers need for this
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  position and what are? And it could be, man, I really
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  need somebody who's going to push the envelope?
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  I need a little bit of a different personality.
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  This time I need, you know, x, y, z and that could even fully
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  support A diversity hire. So there's a lot of missed
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  opportunities. Being honest across
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  organizations of all sizes. Yeah, there's a lot of missed
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  opportunities and and I'll be frank here and I'm sure you'll
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  be frank as well because this is more of your day-to-day than it
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  is mine. But I don't even know if the
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  vast majority of companies that have Recruiters in place are
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  even as strategic and thoughtful, as the way you just
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  described. The, if the right I think that's
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  fair. Yeah.
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  Because I just think a lot of times, you know, when when a lot
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  of recruiters are I'm with, you know, the heads of the
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  Departments and the vp's and the c-suites and the director levels
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  and they're trying to really look at, you know, who do we
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  need? You know, what skills will
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  capabilities? What goals are we having in this
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  time period? Again I just think they're doing
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  a rinse and repeat with the roles.
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  I don't think they're being very strategic and I think when you
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  do a rinse repeat, of course, the the the natural sub
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  conscious effort of choosing and picking and identifying with
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  those that have been there that Done that.
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  That look similar to the successes in the winds that
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  we've had in the past versus to your point.
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  If you can get a little bit more strategic a little bit more
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  thoughtful, you still make do with what you've done in the
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  past but Italy, I personally believe if you can spend a
• 11:43
  little bit more time being intentional and thoughtful
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  around what you need based off of the timing of the
• 11:48
  organization, you may increase your chances of allowing a few
• 11:54
  more diverse candidates and I don't just mean color or gender.
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  Diverse candidates from different backgrounds,
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  transferable backgrounds, and skills to work, the way into the
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  pipeline and at least have a shot.
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  Right? 100%.
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  And I mean, I'm, I'm with you and I think so, we, I'll give
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  you a story. We actually had a group of of
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  wonderful students that helped in the summer.
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  And these interns were super, super cool.
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  I very much enjoy them. One of the First things, I
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  think, as I went through training with them on like what
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  does a recruiter do? Like, how do you Source
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  candidates and talent and engage your leaders inside of the
• 12:36
  organization and get the right people to your point?
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  Most people won't even get that strategic to begin with, but but
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  when they do, all right? So we want more diverse Talent.
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  How do we do it? So I think that's the question
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  that a lot of businesses. Miss is a, we know what we want
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  to do, but how are we going to execute on it?
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  If it falls in line with the other 10 priorities?
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  Where does it rank? You know, and it's not by any
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  means intentional. I think people just get busy at
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  least that's my hope. There are occasions where maybe
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  there's some intentionality there and you just have to
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  forgive people on those those moments for their shortcomings.
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  I think a hundred percent but before that I'm hoping will
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  actually I'll just Ask you prior to this interview that you kind
• 13:29
  of think through a few different topics and bullet points for
• 13:33
  that, you wanted to recap for 2022, did you have a few things
• 13:36
  in mind? Listen, I mean there's so much
• 13:40
  that we could cover. I feel like we could spend ten
• 13:42
  podcasts, you know, going over twenty twenty two, twenty
• 13:45
  twenty-three but I think if you wanted to all perch because I
• 13:50
  did listen to your podcast and I think there's some good material
• 13:52
  on there, a couple things that I took away from from 2022 and
• 13:56
  then what? We could look at 2023 or what.
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  Yeah, yeah, let's go. Let's go through 2022.
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  But I actually had one awesome big bold question.
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  I wanted to ask you prior to us doing a 2022 recap.
• 14:07
  That's okay. Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:10
  So this is a personal situation and I would love your candid and
• 14:14
  honest feedback here because it's been something that has
• 14:20
  Yeah, I'm just going to say this is because I'm pausing.
• 14:23
  There's something that there's something that has been very
• 14:27
  frustrating confusing and I'm not hearing enough of an
• 14:32
  objectively clear. Perspective that can get me to
• 14:36
  say. Okay, I see that point of view
• 14:38
  and maybe my gut tells me, maybe you can shed light on this for
• 14:41
  me and give me that different perspective.
• 14:44
  You ready for this? You set it up so I'm gonna say
• 14:48
  yeah, alright. Okay, with it.
• 14:50
  So I have had many moments. We're I've applied for I'll just
• 15:00
  run down a few of the rolls, right?
• 15:02
  I've applied for channel partnership, roles VP
• 15:08
  partnership roles sales roles, really super strategic.
• 15:13
  You know, head of people type roles.
• 15:18
  I mean, there's a few others, right?
• 15:20
  Okay. And When you look at the JD and
• 15:25
  I know this is not just me by the way listeners.
• 15:27
  This is not just me. I know, I personally know, 15,
• 15:31
  20 people that have also had this issue, but I'm I'm having a
• 15:33
  personal Vendetta here, so I'll just speak to myself.
• 15:36
  Fortunately, when you look at the JD's of these rolls, right?
• 15:41
  They're looking for, they're looking for X y&z experience or
• 15:48
  not of years, and this type of sales or these have a
• 15:51
  partnership. So, these type of Debra's
• 15:52
  whatever the case is going to be.
• 15:55
  I apply for whatever reason. I get an interview, thank God,
• 15:59
  we get to the conversation and every and I mean this day, every
• 16:03
  time actually I'm lying, my last employer Benny.
• 16:08
  The name of the guy was a bit in the name of the guys, Chris the
• 16:11
  company's called Benny, who unfortunately, you know, we're
• 16:14
  in a freezing moment right now doing due to the recession, and
• 16:17
  all these things that are here not here and we'll get into that
• 16:20
  doing our 2022 conversation. But besides Chris, right let's
• 16:24
  just put him in a different category because he's
• 16:27
  phenomenal, love them to death besides Chris and I promise you
• 16:31
  every single time that I've ever interviewed for a company, the
• 16:35
  recruiters that I've been talking to and even when I've
• 16:37
  got to second and third round where I'm talking to my
• 16:39
  potential supervisor or leader, They've never been able to give
• 16:45
  me credit or see the transferable skills of building
• 16:50
  a seven-figure and six-figure brand where I was the sole
• 16:54
  person responsible for channel Partnerships.
• 16:58
  White labels product Integrations, roadmaps driving,
• 17:03
  all sales, hiring the sales team hiring, the Partnerships team
• 17:07
  hiring, every person Like, I mean, I could go down the list
• 17:12
  of those things and what I've been very confused about in the
• 17:14
  things that they said to me is this, well, have you been inside
• 17:18
  of a company and drove X y&z number of sales in this type of
• 17:23
  direct link? And my answer is always yes.
• 17:28
  I've been in that lane. Yes, I've done that number but
• 17:31
  no, I've never had that title inside of a conglomerate, the
• 17:34
  size of yours or inside of a business model, size of yours.
• 17:39
  And that's the only Part. I can kind of sit back and say
• 17:43
  maybe I understand. But if we look objectively and I
• 17:45
  just did this recently and I'll start my rent, if we look
• 17:49
  objectively, right? Because I've hired, I don't
• 17:51
  know. Few hundred people in my career
• 17:54
  interviewed probably another thousand.
• 17:57
  I don't know. It's a large number, right?
• 17:59
  And and what I've always tried to do, is I say objectively, can
• 18:03
  this person do what I need them, like, can they get the job done?
• 18:08
  Can this person think through the channel partnership?
• 18:10
  Can this person, close the deal in the sale?
• 18:12
  Can this person lead this individual to doing X Y & Z,
• 18:16
  whatever, the deliverables going to be Ken that objective thing,
• 18:19
  get done the role map in which how they develop those skills or
• 18:22
  guy. To that point are important but
• 18:25
  secondarily important for me the my main priority is, can they
• 18:28
  actually do the work? And so, finally, when I say back
• 18:32
  to the recruiter or say, back to the hiring manager, say, back to
• 18:35
  the person that may be reporting to, I'm just not, I'm not, and I
• 18:39
  say this, I'm not seeing the, I'm not seeing how you're not
• 18:44
  seeing what I'm seeing here. Like, like if you're looking for
• 18:46
  someone that has led a sales team, or let a Partnerships team
• 18:50
  or drip, you know, has been responsible for XYZ Sales.
• 18:53
  And I just got done telling you that, I built a seven-figure
• 18:56
  brand. And I was the main person.
• 18:58
  I was the person thinking of the partnership strategy closing the
• 19:02
  literal deal going on LinkedIn, going on email thinking of the
• 19:05
  strategy of getting in front of them, creating the pipeline
• 19:08
  managing this year. Like if I did every little piece
• 19:10
  that you're looking for, but no, it wasn't in your little box of
• 19:14
  your world. I'm not seeing how you don't at
• 19:17
  least respect that and see the transferable Nuance.
• 19:21
  So I got Innit. I kept myself calm because I
• 19:24
  usually get pretty hyped. Make this make sense for me.
• 19:28
  Yeah, absolutely. So first let's acknowledge that.
• 19:32
  It doesn't always make sense, right?
• 19:34
  I think that's that's okay, that's fair.
• 19:36
  It is when I say okay I don't mean it's not frustrating.
• 19:39
  I don't mean that it's not something that causes Challenge
• 19:43
  and anger. So I think what I will do is
• 19:47
  because we have somewhat similar backgrounds, where we've
• 19:50
  probably worked and I'll do a lot of different things.
• 19:53
  Maybe even outside of our job role in job description, and
• 19:56
  some ways, what you're just describing Right.
• 20:00
  I think, I think the best thing that I can say is this some till
• 20:03
  two, very quick stories, and these are gonna be super fast
• 20:07
  one, I went to, I brought came over to, I solved, actually,
• 20:10
  from a colleague that say, I worked with you and channel
• 20:13
  distribution. You did great things with Sony
• 20:15
  11, EMC, take a look, see what we have over here?
• 20:19
  If you're thinking about coming back into the corporate world?
• 20:21
  Because what most people don't know is actually went full-time
• 20:25
  with my own marketing company. I had five star goo Reviews
• 20:28
  online yards. I was a full-time 70 to 80 hour
• 20:31
  per week. Starbucks manager and I went
• 20:36
  full time literally. I my last day at Starbucks was
• 20:41
  February 25th of 2020? Let date resonate like how how
• 20:47
  bad of timing / luck to you have to quit your job.
• 20:54
  That's your primary and go full time in your own gig.
• 20:57
  A month before covid hits. I joined I salt, right?
• 21:03
  And when I did join isil, I took an account manager role
• 21:06
  something I've done in the past, I love being strategic with
• 21:09
  people, I like helping move their business forward.
• 21:12
  It's a role that that customer success and I'm very passionate
• 21:16
  about in general. I let always lean towards the
• 21:19
  the heavier strategy side. If I can do customer success or
• 21:23
  something to that extent, I would definitely choose that but
• 21:27
  it was the role that was open. It was a role that was there and
• 21:29
  it was it meets. Straight.
• 21:31
  So I actually sold my home in Sarasota Florida.
• 21:34
  I had a three-bedroom 1400 square foot home that my wife
• 21:39
  and I had rebuilt wants from being destroyed from a
• 21:41
  hurricane. I had a Jeep JK, you 2017, Jeep
• 21:46
  JK you hardtop for doors to dogs, huge backyard, 20 minutes
• 21:52
  from Siesta Key paddleboard in the garage sold.
• 21:56
  It all came up here to North Carolina and joined isil.
• 22:00
  So I say that because I then continued to work here, that's
• 22:04
  all right and you know I won't tell you that I never heard.
• 22:09
  We're hiring Starbucks store managers from an employee before
• 22:13
  because no matter how great the company is, right, no matter how
• 22:17
  passionate people can be and how much you push in the same
• 22:20
  direction to grow our company. There's always going to be that
• 22:23
  one person, right? Or there's always going to be
• 22:26
  somebody who has a different idea.
• 22:29
  So, So, the reason I say this is actually started on to eib then
• 22:35
  six months after. I joined I solved it was
• 22:37
  moderately successful in my role.
• 22:39
  It's a pretty successful but I always think you can do better.
• 22:44
  So then I actually applied for training and engagement
• 22:50
  specialist position. I went through the interview
• 22:52
  process made it to the final round of interviews out of 260
• 22:57
  applicants. I was one of only three People
• 23:00
  to make it into the final round, which is a panel interview with
• 23:03
  the CPR, Chief people officer, which is a position.
• 23:07
  I know that you covet and and very much would love to get
• 23:10
  into, who's Amy. Moser.
• 23:11
  I think you're connected and shout out to Amy.
• 23:14
  Who's done some great things. You're about to hear.
• 23:16
  One of the reasons I really respect Ami.
• 23:18
  Dustin stefanovic also in my interview panel and I didn't get
• 23:25
  the job kid. You not?
• 23:28
  I heard, you know, there's a lot of good things that you brought
• 23:30
  to the table, right? Like but I hadn't had that
• 23:34
  specific position in the specific company and specific
• 23:37
  time. And was I upset and taken back
• 23:41
  in some ways. Yes.
• 23:42
  However, I wanted to acknowledge that and do still the, I have to
• 23:49
  push myself sometimes and try to see the frame of reference and
• 23:53
  the same way I haven't applied to marketing positions in the
• 23:56
  past, and I have Tons of marketing experience.
• 24:00
  Somebody could always say, have you had this exact position?
• 24:03
  This place sometime, right? The difference with what a me
• 24:06
  and Dustin did is I didn't leave it on the table and just say,
• 24:10
  okay, thank you so much for your time.
• 24:12
  Have a wonderful day, right? And then go find another
• 24:14
  company. And that's honestly, what I see.
• 24:16
  Sorry if there's any noise in the background.
• 24:19
  That's what I see. A lot of a lot of candidates.
• 24:22
  Do they? Like hit one roadblock and they
• 24:24
  stop instead. I said I really do appreciate
• 24:29
  that and I understand there. Maybe there's a better person
• 24:32
  for the position at the time, right?
• 24:36
  Is there another role that you think?
• 24:37
  I might be a good fit for? Is there something I can use my
• 24:40
  skill set, but still step outside of this box, that I
• 24:43
  know. And I had already hired a couple
• 24:45
  hundred people at the time helping turn seven Starbucks
• 24:49
  stores around. So taking taking place in tons
• 24:52
  of hiring for Starbucks over four years.
• 24:57
  So that's one story and and that's, that's how that
• 25:00
  situation kind of got record. The other one is to, my wife is
• 25:04
  a start. They didn't before, before you
• 25:07
  go into the second story, if I'm reading between the lines, what
• 25:10
  I'm hearing is, when you ask that question, they said, oh,
• 25:15
  actually, you would be great for these type of roles.
• 25:18
  Yes, yeah. Um, which is no, no Wealthy on
• 25:22
  there. So, that's the key, right?
• 25:25
  I think it's at the end of the day is, if you're open to
• 25:28
  conversations and it's not, this is not your fault as a candidate
• 25:31
  because truthfully when you're interviewing from an outside
• 25:34
  know that it's almost every There's like any company's
• 25:38
  perspective, you can probably appreciate this being an owner
• 25:41
  of a company yourself. You can't give too much info,
• 25:44
  right? Like you can't always say
• 25:46
  everything that you might want to say even but you really you
• 25:49
  want to find help the right people.
• 25:51
  Find the right homes and it could be as simple as hey.
• 25:53
  It just wasn't the right team member at the right time even,
• 25:57
  but what you can do and you being in this Roldan.
• 26:01
  Now I will say this but you can though Train develop in teacher,
• 26:07
  recruiters to say, look if if you come across a really
• 26:12
  phenomenal candidate that has a hat that has seven out of the
• 26:16
  ten, six point five out of the ten skills that we need.
• 26:20
  But you for whatever reason, you don't want to put them in this
• 26:23
  position. Here are some other roles that
• 26:26
  are similar enough are that are familiar enough.
• 26:31
  At least be proactive to bring them up for two reasons.
• 26:34
  Damon number one, you don't want to let a you don't, you don't
• 26:37
  want to let a good talent walk out the door.
• 26:39
  If you can find a way for that, good talent, be at your company
• 26:42
  and work in a different apartment or a different role.
• 26:44
  It's always a good idea. Number two, which I'm sure you
• 26:47
  would agree. You want to leave that person
• 26:49
  with a pleasant experience, for an employer branding from what a
• 26:53
  funnel from an employer from a candidate experience
• 26:55
  perspective. And it always feels good and I'm
• 26:58
  sure you would have tested this because you went through it, it
• 27:01
  always feels good when they say, hey unfortunately you didn't get
• 27:04
  the job. I put in a call, I sent over an
• 27:08
  email, I dropped some notes. And for this role, when your
• 27:12
  behalf and do you have any availability this week next
• 27:16
  week? At this time?
• 27:17
  I would love for you to talk to this hiring manager because I
• 27:19
  think based on what I've learned about, you, you be a great
• 27:22
  opportunity. A great fit for this that little
• 27:25
  Nuance is, yeah, I love me if I'm wrong.
• 27:28
  I don't think a lot of leaders or recruiters organizations are
• 27:32
  our teaching, and putting the recruiters in the Mission and
• 27:36
  empowering them to do that. Yeah, so I love it.
• 27:38
  In fact, I recorded a video about this and, and my second
• 27:43
  story is actually going to bridge this Gap twos.
• 27:45
  But I'll go ahead and give the I'll give the punch line first,
• 27:49
  you know, maybe we'll skip a second story but the the what
• 27:53
  you just said for instance the reason it is profoundly
• 27:57
  impactful or could be is because you changed one slight variable
• 28:03
  there and you Instead of saying that you're not the fit for this
• 28:09
  position, they come back and say, but what about these other
• 28:13
  ones, right? And that is exactly the moment
• 28:17
  where I see most people lose, and this is actually in sales,
• 28:22
  this is in customer success in. This is honestly, one of the
• 28:27
  reasons you can put me into any one of those roles and in, or in
• 28:32
  leadership and I can almost guarantee you You because
• 28:35
  history has shown it, I will be successful, but it's not even
• 28:39
  because of me, that's the irony. It's just because I understand
• 28:42
  those points were people miss, or I understand the ability to
• 28:46
  look at something a little differently.
• 28:48
  Sometimes, this instance is saying, hey instead of putting
• 28:52
  it on that hiring manager or the recruiter saying, what about is
• 28:56
  a positions, which by the way, I typically do for any of my
• 29:00
  roles, you'll talk to so many of my candidates out there that
• 29:03
  would tell you that I'm all Out trying to find them a good home.
• 29:07
  Make dinner reach out to her and family.
• 29:10
  I've hired probably three or four of her friends and family
• 29:14
  Meg. Danner I kid you not when I
• 29:15
  started recruiting for I solve took two and a half months to
• 29:18
  get into a role here at I solved and the right role for Peg and
• 29:22
  Meg has promoted since. And in this has happened
• 29:26
  multiple times with candidates that have hired.
• 29:29
  It's taken longer to get them hired.
• 29:31
  And they've done exponentially better.
• 29:34
  And the reason Is because those candidates learn to stick
• 29:38
  through it too. So the Second Story, I was
• 29:40
  actually going to tell you is about.
• 29:41
  My, my wife who literally started her job today is crazy
• 29:46
  day for us in the family. She is a sole proprietor.
• 29:49
  She, I kid you not had 46 orders opened last week on her Etsy
• 29:54
  Shop. Late yesterday on her.
• 29:56
  Etsy shop with over a thousand dollars in Revenue, sitting out
• 30:01
  there and started a full-time job today.
• 30:03
  And that's because we do want Want to get a home here in North
• 30:06
  Carolina. We do want to have another dog
• 30:10
  because one of our dogs passed away last year like for our you
• 30:14
  know, our dog Paddington that we still have.
• 30:16
  So like there's things that we want and we're willing to work
• 30:19
  for those things and like I've done gigs on the side.
• 30:22
  I actually have 2019, five, star reviews, give or take on
• 30:27
  Facebook from importing and selling Japanese Electronics.
• 30:30
  This last holiday, I essentially started my own small business
• 30:34
  have to report a little Bit of tax income but I've grossed you
• 30:37
  know 35 thousand dollars in the last three months of the year.
• 30:41
  It's little things like that that I see people Miss on its
• 30:44
  follow-up, follow through, and that determination and your Gary
• 30:48
  Vee fan. So I think you'd be all over
• 30:50
  that. Determination is.
• 30:52
  That's the difference. It's just she literally hit that
• 30:56
  roadblock with that job offer. By the way, not job offer, but
• 30:59
  job interview process. I said just just text him back
• 31:03
  real quick, on LinkedIn, follow She did and then she hit another
• 31:08
  roadblock in the interview and like where was just a little
• 31:12
  less communication? I was like, just just send them
• 31:14
  a quick note and say this error or whatever or just do this,
• 31:17
  right? And it's not me that got her,
• 31:20
  the job. It's her.
• 31:20
  That got her the job. She just decided that she would
• 31:26
  go past that feeling of uncomfortability.
• 31:29
  Yeah. And work through it.
• 31:31
  She did what you're doing she said how could I do it?
• 31:34
  So if you wanted to know, How do I get a nice little?
• 31:36
  That's a conversation we can have right now.
• 31:39
  It's not always going to be. I'm going to come in as a VP and
• 31:42
  I'm going to be Chief people officer and that's I have those
• 31:46
  honest conversations to wear. Sometimes it can't be that way.
• 31:51
  I'm not there. I'm a recruiter.
• 31:52
  I mean, why listen to me at the end of the day, you know.
• 31:55
  So but yeah, I mean, it's tough man.
• 31:59
  Like it's, there's a that I had two thousand, two thousand, two
• 32:03
  hundred and Of 13. I think applicants to one
• 32:07
  position this weekend, just this weekend.
• 32:10
  It's not crazy out there. Yeah, it's crazy out here to a
• 32:14
  hard process, but no II. Appreciate that, I appreciate
• 32:19
  those thoughts. Again, it's something that you
• 32:21
  know, it's never. I've never heard anything yet.
• 32:25
  And you gave me some great, you know, thoughts on this.
• 32:27
  But I still, you know, to this day.
• 32:29
  I haven't heard anything yet. That really explains.
• 32:33
  I guess, why. Why recruiters and organizations
• 32:38
  aren't taking the approach that I have in my mind but it's just
• 32:42
  time and I'd be happy to truthfully it between you and I.
• 32:45
  So the video I was going to make is all about taking taking the
• 32:50
  time to help somebody else and and that's what I think.
• 32:53
  A lot of us don't do well in this world or as well as we
• 32:57
  could because there's so many good people out there, I don't
• 33:00
  want to not give credit but the reality is, you know, how many
• 33:03
  times that I have. Did ask for help tag.
• 33:07
  Somebody I've actually been putting together statistics on
• 33:10
  this, over the last two years now and across LinkedIn mostly
• 33:14
  but a little with Facebook and do, you know how many times a
• 33:18
  good friend? Quote-unquote would not even
• 33:20
  respond to a post that I tagged like it's long.
• 33:23
  It's not that they don't care right?
• 33:26
  Ike. I don't want to think that and I
• 33:28
  don't, I would hate to think that but what I can say is this
• 33:32
  there's going to be those people in your life that are it'll
• 33:35
  there's going to be those people in your life that agree with you
• 33:38
  or that they have common Vision or that you can congregate
• 33:41
  around. And this is why I wanted to move
• 33:43
  to New York when I was younger to find that community and look,
• 33:47
  I'm just now, finding it through somebody like yourself and maybe
• 33:50
  my old some others, right? Like we just got to keep this
• 33:53
  moving forward so that we can help other people by sharing
• 33:56
  this vision. And how do we do it?
• 33:59
  That's, that's the next thing, right?
• 34:01
  And here's the last thing, I'll say, and as I give this little
• 34:04
  bit of Ram. Please think about any any, you
• 34:08
  know, any any topics, any themes of 2022, that sticks out for you
• 34:12
  and let's just start to start to a noodle on that from like a
• 34:15
  recap perspective. But here's what I will say.
• 34:19
  And I think the reason why, and if I'm hearing your background
• 34:23
  correctly before I give this rank, this is your first time
• 34:28
  technically being a recruiter or were you always your title of a
• 34:32
  cruder when you're with Starbucks correct.
• 34:36
  First time technically recruiter title.
• 34:38
  Yep. Right.
• 34:39
  So this is lead to my point. My point is the reason why my
• 34:45
  gut and now knowing you more, I'm probably attracted to your
• 34:49
  points of views and how you go about things.
• 34:51
  Just because something that I learned a long, long time ago
• 34:56
  and I have a football background, I played D1 at West
• 34:59
  Virginia, I thought I was going to be the whole NFL thing and
• 35:02
  the sports world has this issue as well.
• 35:05
  When you are someone, that is a lifelong.
• 35:09
  HR practitioner what I mean by that is you're someone that for
• 35:14
  whatever reason got your first recruiting job out of school you
• 35:20
  you worked your way up to then being a potential head of talent
• 35:24
  then you switched over and maybe did some things in change
• 35:26
  management at Lindy that I did not like like you when you're
• 35:29
  looking at an individual you need people that have been quote
• 35:33
  unquote. Career-long lifelong HR
• 35:35
  practitioners, which what I think you find is you are
• 35:39
  Unfortunately put into a situation to be embraced and
• 35:44
  exposed to a lot of groupthink, right?
• 35:47
  And the same best practices, consistently get recycled and
• 35:53
  blogs that you read and certification that you
• 35:56
  potentially get up that you are part of and mentors that you
• 35:59
  have and what you'll find is, there's very minimal, nuances
• 36:04
  and many very minimal Innovations from individuals
• 36:07
  like that at times because Only doing what they were taught and
• 36:11
  then who they were taught, former only doing what they were
• 36:13
  taught. And next thing, you know, you're
• 36:15
  looking at Best Practices and themes that are just been
• 36:17
  recycled and tweaked and built an Innovative against let's over
• 36:22
  last 40, 50 years. But when you come across an
• 36:24
  individual like myself, maybe even someone like you and maybe
• 36:28
  and many others that come from a completely different world that
• 36:31
  have a completely different background.
• 36:33
  What you'll find is those individuals attack the work
• 36:36
  differently approach, the work differently have many.
• 36:39
  Three points of views and perspectives and at times
• 36:43
  attacked the work in a little bit, more of a less robotic less
• 36:49
  tried-and-true method and utilizes a little bit more.
• 36:54
  You know, creativity and how they approach getting to the
• 36:58
  getting to the end result that they're looking for.
• 37:00
  So I don't know if you have any thoughts on that but I always
• 37:03
  find individuals that are not necessarily new to the to the to
• 37:10
  the ins and outs of the role. But this is the first time
• 37:12
  having that quote unquote technical title.
• 37:16
  I found that they had a wide range of skills and they
• 37:19
  approach the work a lot differently than those that are
• 37:21
  tried and true. Yeah.
• 37:22
  And I mean, you're so Not wrong. You're actually a hundred
• 37:25
  percent, right? In fact, I'd go so far.
• 37:27
  As to say, sometimes people take advantage of it think of times
• 37:30
  where you've may have heard. Hey, let's hire somebody who has
• 37:34
  no clue what's going on so that we can, we can figure out like
• 37:38
  what we're doing, right? And what we're doing wrong, how
• 37:40
  do we accelerate or process on training?
• 37:43
  Like, it's part of the business world.
• 37:45
  And so that's kind of why I'm saying.
• 37:47
  Like there's there's so many wonderful things from from
• 37:50
  people in general that, I Try to ignore because there is always
• 37:55
  going to be that time where somebody just genuinely doesn't
• 37:58
  want to hold you up or help you up, right?
• 38:02
  They want to hold you down for whatever the reasons might be,
• 38:07
  but you can't change, right? So you just kind of got to keep
• 38:10
  doing your thing to your point, like maybe you play for a
• 38:13
  different team or you learn a different position and that's
• 38:18
  where I think, you know, some people resilience is not the
• 38:22
  strongest trait that they And to me I would, I would rank it
• 38:27
  very, very high. Even in those times were, I'm
• 38:32
  challenged and we've discussed openly some mental health
• 38:36
  challenges. I'd love to jump into some of
• 38:37
  that too. Because I think this last few
• 38:39
  years have been ultimately very taxing on a lot of people.
• 38:43
  So what's that / - let's jump into that?
• 38:45
  What's the first thing that stopped the model for you?
• 38:47
  That's all. Yeah.
• 38:48
  So I mean, let's say, 2822 if we can back it up, In 2021, I think
• 38:55
  the reality is we've had two gears plus of covid.
• 38:59
  Right. And at some point, you know, I
• 39:03
  think it changed the way that people see some things and half
• 39:08
  of the time, I don't even know if it was conscious but maybe,
• 39:13
  you know, candidates are willing to accept a little bit less of a
• 39:18
  lower pay. They want a different work
• 39:20
  environment. I can't tell you how many people
• 39:22
  I helped transition. General.
• 39:25
  If anything, I'm hesitant to tell people that I'm a
• 39:28
  recruiter. When I go to a restaurant, I
• 39:31
  mean, genuinely the market is crazy right now and we do need
• 39:36
  some of these jobs you've talked about, in the past, right?
• 39:38
  We eats or a service economy. We need service people, we need
• 39:42
  Hospital workers. We need in nurses, practitioners
• 39:46
  doctors. And we need all these these
• 39:50
  positions that and I don't most people go doctors.
• 39:53
  But listen. That's a tough job.
• 39:55
  Yes. They can make a lot of money but
• 39:58
  it's not all glamorous, depending on the doctor, you
• 40:00
  know, right. So I think, I think we're going
• 40:05
  to struggle and so I'd say 2021 2022 is definitely challenged
• 40:11
  the way that we work. I I feel like a lot of companies
• 40:15
  have adapted but now are starting to pull back into a
• 40:20
  hybrid or an office. Environment and I see a lot of
• 40:27
  candidates pushing back on that. So I think that is huge from a,
• 40:32
  you know, not only a work-life balance perspective, but from an
• 40:37
  overall, you know, work mentality, but the bigger trend
• 40:42
  is what I want to call here. So I think if we had to look at
• 40:45
  anything, it's really how how to companies to maybe the point of
• 40:50
  your podcast, How do they Employees equal to benefit to
• 40:59
  the business, right? And maybe it's not employees
• 41:01
  first business second but how do how do we make employees feel
• 41:07
  like they're important to us? What do they need?
• 41:10
  And how are we making sure that we're delivering it?
• 41:13
  I give numerous examples from the past where companies said,
• 41:17
  well, yeah, but we give you this total pay package and, you know,
• 41:21
  my Starbucks Partners your made nine dollars, An hour used to
• 41:23
  say, I can't afford your insurance, even at $25 a
• 41:26
  paycheck, like, they didn't care who you have legitimately, like,
• 41:31
  did you? No matter.
• 41:32
  They had to work three jobs. So, I think that is a good
• 41:37
  example of just where we can focus on making sure that we're
• 41:41
  prioritizing true Wellness for employees and what they need, as
• 41:46
  well. Let me ask you this question.
• 41:48
  No, no, that was helpful. And let me ask you this question
• 41:51
  and I shared this one. My just a little bit ago, you
• 41:56
  know, as a leader, what's the fine line that That leaders and
• 42:02
  companies need to walk as pertains to mental health around
• 42:05
  the following categories. You know, I've when I was I was
• 42:10
  ahead of people for out of my entire career.
• 42:12
  I've been head of people for about four and a half total
• 42:14
  years and the role is incredibly strategic, and that's probably
• 42:19
  another thing, too. I don't have that traditional HR
• 42:24
  background which puts me in a very odd, box of the company has
• 42:29
  to be the right place. The right time.
• 42:30
  The right needs, you know, for a tactical verse 40, Jake, I got
• 42:34
  you. Yeah, I'm super strategic.
• 42:36
  You you asked me to to manage an 80s or an HRS?
• 42:39
  I'm going to look at it, like, I don't know, I got it.
• 42:42
  Hire people to do, I don't do that, you know.
• 42:45
  But but my point is, when I was ahead of people, what I did is,
• 42:50
  I talked to leaders in the company.
• 42:51
  The Managers in the company and I did some of this myself.
• 42:54
  We're if there was a drop off a productivity from someone that
• 42:58
  typically does not have a drop-off or typically someone
• 43:01
  that works at a pretty high level.
• 43:04
  The first questions I used to do and I admit I used to walk a
• 43:09
  little bit close to the line of inappropriate.
• 43:12
  I wanted to know what's really happening in life that's causing
• 43:17
  your mental health. To take a bit of a hit.
• 43:20
  Is there something happening with your House, is there
• 43:23
  something happening with your finances?
• 43:25
  Is there something happening with your parents health?
• 43:27
  Is there something happening with your own physical health?
• 43:29
  Your partner's, physical health, your kids, physical health, is
• 43:32
  there something happening politically in the world that's
• 43:34
  causing you to to have such a, you know, allergic reaction to
• 43:38
  the state of the society today that's causing you to be
• 43:41
  frustrated or distracted? What's happening within your own
• 43:45
  mind or your own world? That's causing your mental
• 43:49
  health to take a hit because if I couldn't and have empathy
• 43:52
  around that, then as ahead of people were as a leader, I can
• 43:57
  start to tweak your workflow for a little bit.
• 43:59
  I can start to tweak the responsibilities.
• 44:01
  You what I have in your plate, I can start to make suggestions
• 44:04
  for apps or therapist or or people that I know that maybe
• 44:10
  are more appropriate to talk to you about those sensitive topics
• 44:13
  and I am let you teach me. We can be a little bit more
• 44:16
  empathetic as an organization if we really know what's happening
• 44:21
  now, I know that again is walking close to a fine line
• 44:25
  that a lot of companies don't want to walk towards because,
• 44:28
  you know, it's a little bit of a gray area getting into someone's
• 44:30
  personal business. And so, what are your thoughts
• 44:33
  around those components as it pertains to mental health?
• 44:36
  Because the drop-off of productivity of an individual,
• 44:40
  what I found in my career has a lot to do with what's happening
• 44:44
  at home. What's happening at a mental
• 44:46
  health level, or obviously, what's happening?
• 44:48
  And like a quiet quitting. They're just not happy with the
• 44:50
  business level, but that's a different That conversation?
• 44:53
  Yeah. Well listen, I love you said
• 44:54
  quite critic is that's where I thought you were going at first.
• 44:56
  But no, I mean the reality is is actually I think the irony is,
• 45:02
  you said, you know, you're thinking of it strategically.
• 45:04
  But what you just described to me is almost tactical, right?
• 45:07
  Your you ask the question like what do you know, what can we
• 45:11
  ask? Or what do we do?
• 45:12
  I think the ultimately they is like is there a way that we can
• 45:16
  be human and help big knowledge or at least?
• 45:21
  Listen. And to our employees and figure
• 45:23
  out how we can help them when they're going through
• 45:26
  challenging times. And if you want my honest
• 45:30
  answer, please. The reason I say that it's
• 45:32
  almost tactical is if we're being strategic, that's very
• 45:37
  reactive approach and that that means tactical to me right?
• 45:40
  If we're being strategic, I want to.
• 45:43
  I want my employees to know, genuinely know that I'm there
• 45:47
  and that means that if I'm their leader are present and their
• 45:50
  life to begin with, right? Right.
• 45:52
  I'm not saying that you have to go golfing every weekend with
• 45:55
  your employees or you should even that's not what I'm saying.
• 45:59
  I'm saying that, if you're doing those touch points, where your
• 46:02
  you actively care, it's not just the kpis, right?
• 46:05
  Like the apis are great and if you care about that person, I
• 46:11
  think the answer in a way that it addresses, your last podcast
• 46:16
  as well. Is it's in the why?
• 46:18
  Like why is Eric Thomas speaks to this?
• 46:21
  He says My Y is greater than my need for sleep.
• 46:25
  He says, I'll wake up at 3 or 4 a.m. every day.
• 46:27
  I'm a lion. I'm not a gazelle.
• 46:29
  I don't need something external to motivate me.
• 46:33
  That's how I've always been but not everybody is.
• 46:37
  So as a leader if we really help people understand the, why, some
• 46:40
  people might go, hey, I'm okay where I'm at.
• 46:43
  Like I actually like my job. I make x amount of dollars per
• 46:48
  year and it fits my lifestyle. Cool.
• 46:52
  Just don't overstress me, right? Just don't just don't ask me to
• 46:56
  work 90 hours because that's when my life hits the tank,
• 46:59
  right? We have to be okay as a business
• 47:02
  to say that's fair, I need to hire somebody else instead of
• 47:06
  asking to work 90 hours, right? I don't know what that means.
• 47:09
  From a compensation perspective from balancing departments from
• 47:13
  planning Workforce. There's, we can get strategic
• 47:16
  strategic on this all day long, but that is where companies miss
• 47:21
  when they're thinking about People planning, right?
• 47:23
  They forget to lead people. You've got to start at the
• 47:26
  beginning and you just have to stablish that trust and
• 47:29
  relationship. That somebody knows that you're
• 47:30
  going to be there when shit hits the fan.
• 47:34
  Yeah, be real, right? Like if shit hits the fan and I
• 47:37
  need to make sales He's the first person staying with me to
• 47:42
  make calls who's the first person who's sitting on my phone
• 47:45
  calls, not to make me look bad, or throw me under the bus,
• 47:49
  they're actively trying to sell with me.
• 47:51
  We're strategizing what a missing, right?
• 47:53
  Like that's a sales leader, that's a that's a great sales
• 47:57
  leader. Anyway, I'll say this one thing
• 48:00
  to lewd to the the Strategic and proactive initiative that I did
• 48:04
  and then let's let's dive into to too quiet.
• 48:09
  Quitting. Because I think that was another
• 48:10
  big topic of 2022, but strategically and tactically to
• 48:15
  be proactive, one thing that I did put in place, while I was
• 48:18
  ahead of people, as I said, look, we're gonna have I had
• 48:22
  this methodology that I came up with when I was work.
• 48:25
  So I was working at a company that was predominantly in the
• 48:29
  inner city area. We had about 200 85 employees,
• 48:31
  90% of them were from, you know, deprived areas, just financially
• 48:37
  thrashed. And, you know, the Education
• 48:40
  level of these folks. And the, the backgrounds of
• 48:42
  these folks, it just was not a good sight, right?
• 48:45
  It was a non-profit and we're doing hard work in the inner
• 48:49
  city and so that's actually I'll stick on that for a second.
• 48:53
  I believe personally that and I know companies that do this but
• 48:57
  I think more companies. When they look at all of their
• 49:00
  policies best practices programs and initiatives, I think it
• 49:04
  needs to be super contextual to the vast majority of the The
• 49:09
  people you have in your company. And so if, you know, you have a
• 49:11
  vast majority of employees that are coming from really rough
• 49:14
  areas, you know, educational backgrounds are not that great
• 49:20
  family, backgrounds and situations are going through are
• 49:23
  going to be consistently up and down and potentially even
• 49:27
  violent and aggressive and just out of control, right?
• 49:31
  I mean, I think there needs to be some programs and policies,
• 49:34
  some support from them from like an employee well-being
• 49:37
  perspective. That Fedak to the reality of
• 49:40
  their life, right? And so the punch line is, I put
• 49:44
  together a program where every 90 days we would hold a
• 49:49
  one-on-one that was literally just about the following
• 49:52
  categories. How you doing financially?
• 49:56
  You know, how is Mom doing? How's Dad doing house?
• 50:00
  How's your sister doing? How is your cousin doing?
• 50:02
  How the kids, you know, is everyone staying out of trouble
• 50:05
  as anyone dealing with any legal issues is anyone having Has any
• 50:09
  health problems? You know, how are you doing?
• 50:12
  Where do you want to be? What do you want to do
• 50:14
  career-wise? If it's still that Big Goal.
• 50:17
  You told me about two years ago. Do you feel like the manager is
• 50:21
  doing everything that they can do to, to put some of the
• 50:24
  Learning and Development programs?
• 50:25
  We talked about six months ago in place to be able to give you
• 50:28
  that promotion like just having a real like, homey to homie.
• 50:32
  Like I see where you are in life type conversation.
• 50:36
  That was so contextual A reality, right?
• 50:40
  It wasn't your standard cookie cutter that I stole from like 15
• 50:44
  5 or whatever. That each archive, I'm trying to
• 50:47
  remember that. There's a there's an HR company
• 50:50
  that has like all these surveys and questions that you can ask
• 50:52
  your employees. But it was very contextual to
• 50:54
  where they were in life and so I just wanted to share that with
• 50:57
  you and in the listeners because I think you know it just it put
• 51:01
  us in a proactive position to to get the data that they were
• 51:06
  sharing in those in those everyday 90 you know, those
• 51:08
  nine. 80 90 day sessions and moments that we would have and
• 51:12
  proactively start doing some work to support them and engage
• 51:15
  with them and help their families out and help them out
• 51:17
  personally. So I don't have any thoughts on
• 51:20
  that. Yeah, I mean at first it sounds
• 51:22
  like a great program. I love that you did that.
• 51:26
  I actually have put it on my list of to do is to work with
• 51:29
  you. No more with mental health this
• 51:30
  year, maybe some underprivileged and that's because it's a
• 51:35
  passion of where I've come from. And I acknowledge Knowledge.
• 51:41
  First and foremost, that I have the privilege and this is not to
• 51:46
  get too political, but it's true, right?
• 51:48
  I have the privilege of being Caucasian male putting on a
• 51:55
  white button-up shirt and tie and having a reasonably decent
• 52:00
  background. And potentially Interviewing
• 52:04
  differently than somebody else. Right?
• 52:07
  And and so I just want to be real very real and that the same
• 52:12
  way that women have statistically, right?
• 52:19
  Less pain than men in the same position and sixty percent of
• 52:25
  women. Still don't apply to roles when
• 52:29
  they don't meet all of the criteria for the Roll 90-plus,
• 52:35
  percent of men do. So how do we flip the script?
• 52:39
  Have women, apply right? Like because you can't change
• 52:43
  what's happening on the other side.
• 52:44
  Sometimes I think I think that kind of real and actionable.
• 52:49
  Real is what really helps people.
• 52:50
  How do we help underprivileged and people who don't have to
• 52:55
  your point finances, or the first thing that stress people
• 52:57
  out, when they don't know what's going to happen, right?
• 53:01
  Like how do we, how do we They have a conversation about how
• 53:05
  credit runs America. And when you take away,
• 53:07
  somebody's ability to get 0% interest versus somebody who
• 53:11
  started it at 18, in an affluent family who legitimately probably
• 53:16
  had a stock portfolio went to a great school.
• 53:18
  Got, you know, not saying you couldn't have done half of those
• 53:21
  things but every little piece helps I never had it.
• 53:25
  I'm a Caucasian white male and I never had those other pieces
• 53:28
  right? So I still do I still have debt
• 53:31
  from my student loans? And I still have all the This
• 53:33
  other stuff. So I've gotten to see how how
• 53:36
  much it really could hurt if you had none of it.
• 53:39
  Does that make sense? No, it does.
• 53:40
  That's that's the key. But let me ask you a quick
• 53:43
  question, because this is going to go to the finances part.
• 53:45
  I wanted to share this with you of another strategic thing.
• 53:48
  We did the Starbucks ever that. Could you go to Starbucks and
• 53:52
  say, Hey, I want to borrow $600 for my next paycheck and then I
• 53:57
  want you to just take it off on next check if you do that.
• 54:00
  Yeah, so I love that. A lot of companies have been
• 54:03
  Didn't play and Starbucks actually think towards the end
• 54:06
  of my career with them did put in place for.
• 54:08
  You could actually borrow like out a few.
• 54:12
  Usually it's through third-party, right?
• 54:14
  And it's still like HR systems or third-party apps and those
• 54:18
  kind of things that will do it for you.
• 54:22
  Yeah. Automatically for sure.
• 54:23
  Yeah. In and like, you know, my
• 54:26
  apartment complex does stuff like where you don't have to pay
• 54:28
  all of your in at once and you can pay it over time to like
• 54:31
  better be convenient for you. The challenges I would say.
• 54:34
  Let's look at those programs in. Whichever ones I can almost
• 54:38
  guarantee that are not publicly funded and are not for profit or
• 54:43
  or maybe even some that are the fees and the other things, the
• 54:46
  real interest, like the real impact behind it.
• 54:49
  It's like what I'd say is when my neighbors and stuff with
• 54:53
  kids, when I grew up with, like I was blessed, I was very
• 54:55
  blessed and I grew up in a really crappy area with, I mean
• 54:58
  multiple rapes per year and in my neighborhood and murders.
• 55:02
  I've been shot at So like legitimate, where he grow up.
• 55:06
  I grew up in Pine Hills Florida. Yeah, I agree, which is like,
• 55:11
  right by like, Ivy Lane in Orlando, like all that stuff.
• 55:14
  So it was rough for a minute. Yeah.
• 55:17
  Okay. What you're saying is resonating
• 55:20
  keep going. Yeah, so I mean but but my
• 55:23
  experience still was privileged in I never had to give up my
• 55:26
  PlayStation. My friends legitimately I'd go
• 55:29
  over and like one week, they had a PlayStation that they got for
• 55:32
  Christmas next. Weak.
• 55:33
  Their parents took it to the pawn shop like this was cyclical
• 55:38
  every time and it was it's because the the support is not
• 55:42
  there permanently, you know what I mean?
• 55:45
  Yeah, and I think that's like that's a bigger piece and again,
• 55:48
  politics aside, I think just my mission if I can help people to
• 55:53
  your point, how do you get? Maybe that next job, right, I'm
• 55:57
  truthfully take off half the jobs on your your experience.
• 56:02
  Only put the bullet That are relevant to the position you're
• 56:04
  applying like, I don't know, there's tons of answers and
• 56:08
  that's why I have these conversations every day.
• 56:10
  The people, I think it's super important.
• 56:13
  No, I appreciate that. And then even before, lot of
• 56:15
  this technology came out, why I brought that up is at that same
• 56:19
  company. I was I was referring to I kept
• 56:22
  noticing during those 10 one that a lot of people who are
• 56:25
  having some timing issues financially.
• 56:28
  So we like to your point before they take this is years before
• 56:31
  the technology automatically did it.
• 56:33
  I just Went over to the to payroll and HR, I said, look, if
• 56:36
  anyone comes and is having an issue, allowed them to borrow 20
• 56:42
  to 30 percent of their check in the future and then just just
• 56:46
  jot it down and just take it off and awesome.
• 56:49
  There's no interest on it. You know, they'll just, you
• 56:51
  know, if they borrow 200 they just pay back 200 and I just
• 56:56
  thought at the time, just trying to be strategic.
• 56:59
  If I could eliminate the timing financially A bit, if I can
• 57:04
  eliminate that from being an issue in their lives, my gut
• 57:07
  told me didn't work. Would.
• 57:10
  Yeah, they will show up at work and be a little bit more, you
• 57:12
  know, themselves and a little bit more present in a little
• 57:15
  more engaged. But, but but some of you this
• 57:18
  though, and and let me know please, what's your actual heart
• 57:21
  stopped? Well, how much more time I got
• 57:23
  with? I got time.
• 57:24
  Okay. What?
• 57:26
  Also stood out for you in 2022, is there is there something that
• 57:31
  this even get a little spicy here?
• 57:33
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, really.
• 57:35
  Yeah, that kind of irritated you or something.
• 57:37
  You want to see different that you have thoughts on how to
• 57:39
  chain irritation. That's, that's not where I was
• 57:42
  headed. I was headed toward a, a, i
• 57:44
  because truthfully, it hit it hit late, but I do think Ai.
• 57:50
  And I just put up a chat GPT video.
• 57:52
  I recorded like three weeks ago, traveling to see family and I've
• 57:55
  been that behind, but I think AI is hitting that point naught,
• 58:03
  naught. Mystically, not like that.
• 58:05
  A lot of people have this Terminator vision of AI and
• 58:08
  really don't understand like the call function of AI if that
• 58:12
  makes sense. Like it's a function in term is
• 58:15
  does certain behaviors? Yeah.
• 58:17
  And I think, I think AI though is at that point where think of
• 58:21
  it like navigation, right when navigation was released to the
• 58:23
  public, our lives have never been the same, same thing with
• 58:26
  like smartphones. I think a I probably could do
• 58:29
  that over the next 10 years for being realistic.
• 58:32
  Well let's talk about this because two companies connected
• 58:36
  to my portfolio. Three companies actually
• 58:39
  connected to my portfolio right now.
• 58:41
  So mine stand technology was an AI.
• 58:44
  You know we had a I will utilize a, are at a pretty high level.
• 58:47
  We had a four-year run, we were partnered with Microsoft and JP
• 58:51
  Morgan and did a couple other things and then we just, you
• 58:54
  know, we just fizzled out, you know, we tried it, we raised,
• 58:57
  you know, we raised some money and we worked hard and then
• 59:00
  never let me know. More money was raised.
• 59:02
  And we ran out of Runway, but we gave it for years, right?
• 59:04
  And, and then also my work with almost in sight.
• 59:07
  It seemed like the human capability sector or parting
• 59:10
  with Deloitte. It's all AI, the air.
• 59:12
  And then also some work with diverse will.
• 59:14
  So yeah, tell me any thought you had was, I'm really big on this
• 59:18
  space right now and the workplace sector, as well as.
• 59:22
  Like, just your HR tech, for tech stack for like, HR teams
• 59:26
  and Leadership teams, I think needs to be pretty shitty joke
• 59:29
  and high-level to, right? Yeah, I mean I'd go so far as to
• 59:33
  say like my high-level opinion of AI is simply this if you miss
• 59:39
  the ability to get in on AI in the next few years.
• 59:44
  If you're not already thinking about how you can better
• 59:49
  support, maybe even just support your employees.
• 59:52
  There are companies that are going to beat you to it and and
• 59:57
  I'm not saying this like Doom and Gloom but if Whirring
• 1:00:01
  knowledge that everybody through this last few years, I would say
• 1:00:05
  it wasn't a candidate Market, it wasn't an employer Market, the
• 1:00:08
  numbers say, one thing. But they don't say is that, you
• 1:00:11
  know, most people forget to look, people are leaving retail,
• 1:00:14
  people are leaving their nursing jobs.
• 1:00:15
  People are leaving their teaching jobs, they don't want
• 1:00:18
  to be in those Industries anymore.
• 1:00:19
  And so, the reality is the jobs that are sexier, the jobs that
• 1:00:23
  are coveted, or the the idea of certain places that were moving
• 1:00:27
  forward, those jobs do have competition and So literally I'd
• 1:00:34
  say, for instance, actually had those 2213 applicants.
• 1:00:38
  I told you about that was for a remote roll.
• 1:00:41
  The same role I posted in Charlotte 10 applicants
• 1:00:45
  Charlotte's, a massive City literally it's like a 50 square
• 1:00:49
  miles City. If you factor in suburbs in the
• 1:00:53
  metro area here, so it's crazy to think that that's a 220 / 10.
• 1:01:01
  Applicant different, right? Like that's insane.
• 1:01:04
  And if so if we miss the ability to capitalize on a i that's what
• 1:01:06
  I see happening. You're going to be the person as
• 1:01:09
  10 applicants versus 2213. And are you, are you at all
• 1:01:15
  fascinated with a guy from this sense of like being able to
• 1:01:19
  assess and understand? Like, actually, I actually this
• 1:01:22
  real time here almost in sight, you know, company that we're
• 1:01:26
  with Deloitte. What are your thoughts on this
• 1:01:28
  from? Like a recruiter?
• 1:01:30
  Or ta perspective. So right now, our technology can
• 1:01:34
  identify the following variables.
• 1:01:37
  Like, identify how curious someone is identify, how they
• 1:01:41
  would? What does what type of decisions
• 1:01:44
  they would make in certain, said, examples, and you can like
• 1:01:47
  provide and feed examples into the AI.
• 1:01:51
  We can kind of understand where they want to like, how they want
• 1:01:55
  to learn and develop best and what they need from leadership
• 1:01:58
  and management and Learning and Development programs.
• 1:02:01
  Because what we do is we put, we put applicants to a game that's
• 1:02:05
  about 30 minutes long, and pretty much the game, throws
• 1:02:07
  them different scenarios and how that applicant answers.
• 1:02:10
  Those scenarios will feed. You know, your organization of
• 1:02:13
  report that says this is the type of employee you have.
• 1:02:17
  These are the type of roles that they work best in.
• 1:02:19
  Here's how to best lead them and develop them and work with them
• 1:02:22
  and communicate to them. It is that is that interesting
• 1:02:26
  to you as a recruiter just at a high level, is that something
• 1:02:29
  that at scale, you seen a 10-year window you know,
• 1:02:34
  organizations utilizing that data and being super thoughtful
• 1:02:37
  about, let's call it director level up to c-suite level jobs I
• 1:02:42
  mean, if we're being honest, I think if you wait 10 years, it's
• 1:02:45
  too long anything that you can do for me, anything that you
• 1:02:49
  could do to enhance my productivity, I will always work
• 1:02:53
  smarter than harder and I'm a stupid hard worker.
• 1:02:57
  And that's where I don't typically lose, right?
• 1:02:59
  Like, I will always choose to use the smarter approach when I
• 1:03:03
  can, when I hit the road blocks that I just don't stop.
• 1:03:07
  So that I think that's the key where it's like, if you want to
• 1:03:11
  succeed as a company. Me you don't just need the
• 1:03:13
  brightest. You don't just need the
• 1:03:14
  hardest-working. You do need to be able to
• 1:03:17
  capitalize on the mixture of both and from your mouth to my
• 1:03:20
  ears. I hope that people take AI in a
• 1:03:22
  direction that enhances productivity and doesn't isn't
• 1:03:27
  just a bottom line saber. You know.
• 1:03:29
  Like I mean the reality is like we can use AI to help our
• 1:03:35
  navigate our training conversations.
• 1:03:37
  We can use AI to help with leadership so that leaders
• 1:03:42
  Understand how they can help people better.
• 1:03:44
  It's not always just about the employee, right?
• 1:03:46
  Like I mean that's, that's the key is a, I can do not just one
• 1:03:52
  side or the other. It can be your objective
• 1:03:54
  listener. Can put together all the data.
• 1:03:57
  It should always be kept in check, especially right.
• 1:03:59
  Now you know, you should always have a set aside eyes on it.
• 1:04:02
  Make sure it's it's functioning as, you know, the models are not
• 1:04:05
  perfect, but there's definitely some cool things you could do
• 1:04:09
  with it. Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:13
  It's definitely a cool thing. You know, I'm not someone that,
• 1:04:16
  you know, has the ability to build product, but I think I
• 1:04:18
  definitely think from like, a strategic perspective, companies
• 1:04:22
  Can Candace chat gpk to do it for you now.
• 1:04:25
  You're good. Exactly, right.
• 1:04:28
  All right, last couple things here.
• 1:04:31
  What's happening in 2023. So I know that this and I'll
• 1:04:37
  just ask you straight up here and this is a debate that we you
• 1:04:40
  and I don't have to get into. To based off of your opinion
• 1:04:42
  because you know, I'm kind of just in a wait-and-see mode.
• 1:04:45
  But do you personally believe that we are going through a
• 1:04:49
  recession, or we're going through an awkward position,
• 1:04:52
  Workforce wise for the next 6 to 12 months.
• 1:04:56
  What are your what are your honest opinions on that?
• 1:04:58
  Well, I mean, first know that you can always have me back.
• 1:05:02
  I would love to continue the dialogue and conversation.
• 1:05:05
  I would love to continue with leaders to help other people
• 1:05:08
  grow. It cost me nothing and has Thing
• 1:05:11
  to benefit somebody else, right? If anything I post can be
• 1:05:15
  helpful to one person. That's the reason I do it one
• 1:05:18
  person. It's worth it, right?
• 1:05:20
  So we can always do the tables love to do it.
• 1:05:24
  I mean, just we can continue to push and help this world and so
• 1:05:28
  many ways which is why I've been super big on the mental health
• 1:05:31
  and ADHD stuff. You see me post?
• 1:05:33
  So to answer your question though let's be honest.
• 1:05:39
  Recession is defined by the Moment.
• 1:05:41
  And in the past it had always been two periods of not meeting
• 1:05:45
  our GDP. From - Point whatever, it is 012
• 1:05:48
  filing. Remember the numbers percent,
• 1:05:50
  right? Think it's .125.
• 1:05:52
  Anyway, we go - right and the government says, if it has
• 1:05:58
  happened for two consecutive quarters, then we're in a
• 1:06:01
  recession. I mean, I think we're past that
• 1:06:04
  right? Like so at this point I think
• 1:06:06
  it's just a matter of understanding what the economic
• 1:06:09
  indicators are for how Like how we move forward and there's
• 1:06:13
  always speculation on both sides.
• 1:06:16
  Here's what I'd tell you. I live through 2008 as a real
• 1:06:21
  estate agent I was licensed real estate agent for 2005 to be on
• 1:06:28
  2008 but I stopped doing real estate.
• 1:06:30
  I was working 90 hours a week, end of 2007, middle of 2008
• 1:06:35
  because that's one of those jobs that is, you know, just kind of
• 1:06:38
  like You do the one thing when you can still, if you have it
• 1:06:42
  coming through already, but the reality is like I saw the loan
• 1:06:48
  market, right? I saw the money.
• 1:06:49
  I saw that Fannie Mae and Freddie, Mac, drove everything.
• 1:06:53
  That's how I know that if we're not talking about money, like
• 1:06:58
  not just economics, but we're not talking about real money to
• 1:07:01
  people how they can be Henry, you know, forward or how they
• 1:07:07
  can be Flagler or whoever You pick pick a guy from the past
• 1:07:10
  doesn't matter. Unfortunately, the color, you
• 1:07:13
  know, maybe white for a lot of people, but the reality is we
• 1:07:20
  have to find ways to use these things that have been indicators
• 1:07:23
  of the past to help people to move forward.
• 1:07:26
  And recession is, there's people are going to get rich in a
• 1:07:29
  recession, doesn't matter, right?
• 1:07:31
  There's people who are going to make even more money because
• 1:07:33
  they understand what's happening behind the scenes and they have
• 1:07:36
  money. I can understand it all day
• 1:07:38
  long. If I don't have the money, Any,
• 1:07:39
  it doesn't help. Let me ask you this real quick.
• 1:07:43
  Do you think, do you think companies need to be and I'll
• 1:07:46
  give you a real example, you know, in a real situation and
• 1:07:51
  Chris and I talked about this publicly so it's public
• 1:07:53
  knowledge here. So you know, with my last gig
• 1:07:58
  Benny was in a position where the investors, they're the those
• 1:08:02
  that made the financial decisions of the company because
• 1:08:05
  it was structured in a way where, you know, there's there's
• 1:08:08
  millions in Runway but it's controlled By a group of
• 1:08:11
  individuals and a voting system occurred, and they felt that we
• 1:08:16
  are Benny was going as a product.
• 1:08:19
  The world was not going to go that direction for 18-month
• 1:08:23
  window, and they didn't fund a company that would either go
• 1:08:28
  flat or lose money over the next 18 months.
• 1:08:30
  My personal opinion is that's a little too, proactive thinking.
• 1:08:36
  Let's see what I would have. Probably done it six months at a
• 1:08:39
  time person. Or it's not proactive enough,
• 1:08:41
  right? I mean, yeah, that's that's the
• 1:08:44
  drag here is. I think, I think that's, that's
• 1:08:48
  the hurdle that we all have to overcome.
• 1:08:50
  Especially if you're an entrepreneur.
• 1:08:51
  Is how do you realize that, you know, whether you're going
• 1:08:55
  through your investor around your angel, investors?
• 1:08:58
  You're looking for Venture capitalists, you're willing to
• 1:09:00
  sell part of your company, whatever it might be.
• 1:09:02
  Like to start something, you will need people to help you.
• 1:09:06
  And actually, that is, I'm so glad that we ended here or
• 1:09:09
  close. You know to because I wanted to
• 1:09:11
  make sure that if nothing else. What I've learned over these
• 1:09:14
  last two years is that you will need people to help you.
• 1:09:19
  And so I'm hoping that everybody who's listening this understands
• 1:09:22
  that they also can be that person to help somebody else and
• 1:09:25
  it could be as simple as literally.
• 1:09:26
  Just just reaching out your head, you may have everything
• 1:09:30
  that they need, it might take two minutes of your time.
• 1:09:33
  It might take 10, might take zero dollars, you can help
• 1:09:38
  people and that's the thing. If you're starting something,
• 1:09:41
  you will need help, no II appreciate this.
• 1:09:45
  Damn, this has been a, this has been a great conversation.
• 1:09:49
  I think it's been pretty fluid and simple and there's a lot of
• 1:09:52
  energy and a lot of thoughts in today's conversation.
• 1:09:55
  So I'm very appreciative of that.
• 1:09:58
  I'll say this to wrap up and then please plug anything we
• 1:10:01
  want to plug Benny. The company that I'm talking
• 1:10:04
  about, actually utilized your company From Mice from, like a
• 1:10:09
  payroll perspective. And some Checks, and some direct
• 1:10:11
  deposit and things of that nature.
• 1:10:12
  So, look, my final thoughts on what should be happening in 2023
• 1:10:19
  and then just looking back over all in 2022, I think just just
• 1:10:25
  get really smart about a few different areas, right?
• 1:10:29
  If everyone can get really smart.
• 1:10:30
  I think about the honesty in the communication process and
• 1:10:35
  strategy and system, you utilized or recruiting, I'm big
• 1:10:39
  on that. I'm big on being very direct
• 1:10:42
  very honest, very detailed throughout the interview
• 1:10:45
  process. Let people really, really know
• 1:10:47
  what they're getting into at a real deep level, you know,
• 1:10:51
  getting to, you know, and be honest about the career mapping
• 1:10:54
  opportunities. Like, don't don't do the
• 1:10:56
  old-school thing. Well, you know, the
• 1:10:58
  possibilities, are endless be honest, you know, and tell them
• 1:11:01
  greater than like, look right now, I don't see this role
• 1:11:05
  really developing an 18-month window to the way that you're
• 1:11:08
  describing, you like it too. Here, the reasons why and let us
• 1:11:13
  know if that's not going to work for you and just so just be
• 1:11:15
  honest and be direct. And then I think, the other
• 1:11:18
  thing I would say is get really smart about your HR Tech stack,
• 1:11:23
  that's something I'm big on. I think you should have a really
• 1:11:26
  unique strategic technology for internal comms, recruiting data
• 1:11:33
  management, you know, being thoughtful for my caddy.
• 1:11:36
  And I perspectives. Look really good.
• 1:11:38
  Denial products, starting to pop up.
• 1:11:39
  So, And then besides that as always, just try to put
• 1:11:43
  employees first and take what they say, seriously any any
• 1:11:49
  final words from you? Then I love it.
• 1:11:51
  You know, transparency I think is key transparency and let's
• 1:11:58
  say authenticity is the one of my favorite words of this last
• 1:12:02
  year as well are absolutely key. People read through even if they
• 1:12:07
  don't know it and you know that they don't know it and you're
• 1:12:10
  Not enough to manipulate people and that's what you choose to
• 1:12:12
  do. If you're in that type of
• 1:12:14
  environment, just know that subconsciously.
• 1:12:17
  The reason they're applying and taking my interview.
• 1:12:20
  Yeah I didn't even have to reach out most of the time.
• 1:12:23
  It's because they they saw through it, right?
• 1:12:25
  Like they felt what you just described so I loved it.
• 1:12:30
  I'm on board with you on that. I think it's a great Direction
• 1:12:33
  ahead and the sake of of creating better environments for
• 1:12:36
  people finding people to right place and the right time and You
• 1:12:40
  know I think that's one of the things I'm super passionate
• 1:12:42
  about which is why I'm where I'm at.
• 1:12:44
  So if I get the plugs it's going to be of course thank you to I
• 1:12:47
  solve my leaders. Thank you to the people who
• 1:12:50
  support me every day. Like my HR B PSI my HR
• 1:12:53
  Associates Maryland Kayla Brandon you're amazing Krishna
• 1:12:57
  Rica's my sorcerer phenomenal you may have seen him on
• 1:13:01
  LinkedIn even then his worst days he tries to help everybody.
• 1:13:05
  He's always sending out, layoff list all of us and I can't thank
• 1:13:09
  him enough. For that even though we can't
• 1:13:11
  help everybody which is, you know, that's also the other side
• 1:13:16
  of that coin which is really can be hard sometimes.
• 1:13:20
  So yeah, thank you to all that. But most importantly, thank you
• 1:13:22
  to my wife, you know, for putting up with my shit the last
• 1:13:25
  few years, I think. I think that's the real thing is
• 1:13:28
  that I didn't know I had ADHD in my whole life and it certainly
• 1:13:32
  affected some relationships from jobs, even if people didn't know
• 1:13:38
  that it did, Those behaviors can be very challenging to deal with
• 1:13:43
  right, especially if you're you're passionate person who
• 1:13:46
  wants the best for everybody. So, yeah, I think that's that.
• 1:13:50
  Does it for me and I really can't thank you enough as well
• 1:13:53
  for this time, I've loved our conversation and want to keep
• 1:13:56
  helping people move forward. So I hope this does help
• 1:13:58
  somebody no I appreciated this is really been nice and I know
• 1:14:02
  for a fact I'm definitely going to have you know have you back
• 1:14:04
  again? I think it's a really fluid
• 1:14:07
  conversation. I think we both bring some
• 1:14:09
  really interesting. Thought so, I'll definitely have
• 1:14:12
  you back a few more times maybe 23 more times in 2023 if you're
• 1:14:15
  open to it. And yeah, thank you so much and
• 1:14:19
  I guess guess that's it sounds good.
• 1:14:22
  I look forward to continuing to listen and maybe we'll meet some
• 1:14:25
  of your other guests as well. Do a roundabout or something?
• 1:14:28
  Yeah, that's what I said. I was going to say to, like any
• 1:14:30
  of your colleagues, you know, maybe like the entire like, you
• 1:14:33
  know, a few folks on your side of the side of the world, you
• 1:14:37
  know, whomever stewards. I think he's Dropped her name.
• 1:14:40
  But, you know, your maybe possibly your head of people.
• 1:14:43
  Maybe some folks from Alan d, if you want to get like a little
• 1:14:45
  little Posse together, we can definitely do like our
• 1:14:48
  Roundtable 45 people in here and and you know share some thoughts
• 1:14:52
  for 90 minutes accurately. Appreciate it again.
• 1:14:56
  Thanks so much Anthony. It's been a pleasure.
• 1:14:59
  Sorry AJ probably know each other well enough by now, right?
• 1:15:04
  And listen, I really do appreciate everything you're
• 1:15:07
  doing for people so I think that has to be said so So, keep doing
• 1:15:10
  it. Thank you.
• 1:15:13
  Alright. Take care have