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ALEX MURDAUGH DEATH PENALTY · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Two time killer lawyer Alex Murdog death penalty. Good evening.
0:08
Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime stories. I want
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Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us.
0:19
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court ruled unanimously that Alex's Murdoch trial was
0:27
Speaker 2: not fair, that the Jerry Tambourine affected the verdict.
0:31
Speaker 1: With all of that evidence, how could they vote any
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Speaker 1: other way.
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Speaker 3: Alex Murdau is a liar and a thief and a
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Speaker 3: generally despicable human being.
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Speaker 4: I really think the only thing they had his voice
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Speaker 4: being on the snapchat.
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Speaker 1: Whoopsie, be careful what you ask dear for, you will
0:49
Speaker 1: surely get it. That should be the phrase ringing in
0:54
Speaker 1: Alex Murdoch's ears about right now. He appealed his double
0:59
Speaker 1: murder conviction, it was reversed. He got what he asked for.
1:03
Speaker 1: But now the South Carolina Attorney generalist said, you know what,
1:08
Speaker 1: we think the death penalty may be in order in
1:10
Speaker 1: this case. Joining me in all star panel to make
1:13
Speaker 1: sense of what we are learning. That and so much more,
1:16
Speaker 1: as his fleet of defense attorneys say, it will be
1:20
Speaker 1: a game day decision whether Murdoch takes a stand. Are
1:23
Speaker 1: you kidding me? There will be no way in HG
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Speaker 1: double L. And speaking of H E double L, it
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Speaker 1: will freeze over before Murdoch puts one toe on the
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Speaker 1: stand after his disastrous first appearance, Let's watch him snotting
1:39
Speaker 1: on the stand. Please. The quivering, the snodding, the pinching
1:43
Speaker 1: oneself to make one's self cry on the stand knows
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Speaker 1: no end. Take a look at this, Mark Pepper, you're
1:50
Speaker 1: the veteran defense attorney joining us at oh yep, WLTV.
2:07
Speaker 1: Boy that had to hurt. I saw that happen, and
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Speaker 1: Mark Pepper, I can't unsee it. I can't unsee it. Please, please,
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Speaker 1: please put him back on the stand.
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Speaker 5: What do you.
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Speaker 3: Think I think you'll get your wish. I think his
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Speaker 3: ego will not allow him to not take the stand,
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Speaker 3: much less take the advice of his own attorneys. As
2:28
Speaker 3: you may recall, both mister r Putley and mister Griffin
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Speaker 3: advised against him taking the stand. But that's not Alec.
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Speaker 3: Alec is convinced that he can convince a juror of
2:40
Speaker 3: twelve what we saw that day. I hope to not
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Speaker 3: see again, but I suspect we will see it, and
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Speaker 3: probably relatively soon. Once the prey of rest, once the
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Speaker 3: prosecution rests. I think they'll call him right quick.
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Speaker 1: You know what, two times around, you're thinking Murdog is
3:02
Speaker 1: going to make an encore performance. You know what, I'll
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Speaker 1: burn that bridge when I get there. Uh, but I am.
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Speaker 1: I'm going to go over to the courthouse right now,
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Speaker 1: and I'm lying on the front row. I'm not moving
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Speaker 1: until Murdoch gets on the stand because I need the
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Speaker 1: front row. Last time, I was sitting behind the one
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Speaker 1: surviving family member, Buster Murdog and his now wife, and
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Speaker 1: I had to keep moving around to see what was
3:26
Speaker 1: happening because I didn't want to watch one. I didn't
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Speaker 1: want to miss one fake tear Pepper. Okay, I blame
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Speaker 1: him for his conviction. But tonight, is this true? He's
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Speaker 1: actually suing court clerk Becky Hill. He's actually suing her. Whoa, whoa,
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Speaker 1: whoa Wait a minute, straight out to Gg McKelvey, joining
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Speaker 1: US investigative reporter, journalist, host of Pretty Liza and Alibis Gigi.
3:56
Speaker 1: Wait hold on, Becky Hill. According to the the South
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Speaker 1: Carolina Supreme Court handed him a reversal on a silver
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Speaker 1: platter on top of the Christmas tree. Why is he
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Speaker 1: suing her?
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Speaker 5: You know?
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Speaker 6: When I heard he was getting a new trial. My
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Speaker 6: first thought is he is gonna sue Becky Hill. Now,
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Speaker 6: whether or not there's any money to be had that
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Speaker 6: remains to be seen. But yesterday at the press conference,
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Speaker 6: his defense attorney said part of the monetary part of
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Speaker 6: the money they're seeking is to pay for his defense
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Speaker 6: that he paid for first first trial, because her actions
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Speaker 6: led to that being a jatie, I.
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Speaker 1: Think you're awesome. You're great. You're on the ground right there.
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Speaker 1: You know it like the back of your hand. But
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Speaker 1: the question was why is he suing her.
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Speaker 6: He's suing her because he wants to be reimbursed for
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Speaker 6: his defense attorney fees for that first trial. They did
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Speaker 6: mention they're seeking other moneies, but they did not specify
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Speaker 6: what for, but we do know the six hundred thousand
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Speaker 6: specifically was mentioned for his defense fees he paid for
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Speaker 6: trial number one.
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Speaker 1: Mark Pepper is joining US veteran criminal defense attorney, founded
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Speaker 1: the Pepper Law Firm in South Carolina. Okay, wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: let me understand the legal theory she according to the jurrrs,
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Speaker 1: tainted their verdict. I think they found him guilty because
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Speaker 1: he is guilty and the evidence is overwhelming. But two,
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Speaker 1: I think two jurars stated that she made inappropriate comments
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Speaker 1: and it colored their verdict. Fine, South Carolina Supreme Court
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Speaker 1: had to reverse. So he should be giving her a bonus.
5:38
Speaker 1: He should be sending her a fruit basket. Why is
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Speaker 1: she suing her? What is the legal theory that Hartputlin
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Speaker 1: is pulling straight out of his bony rear end.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he should be doing exactly what he's doing, which
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Speaker 3: is getting his six hundred thousand dollars back that he
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Speaker 3: used in expert fees.
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Speaker 1: The legal theory, Why can't anybody give me a legitimate
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Speaker 1: legal theory? In our country, that's called a frivolous lawsuit.
6:05
Speaker 1: You can be yoasted, yst that's the name of a
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Speaker 1: case where there was a frivolous lawsuit and has come
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Speaker 1: to be a moniker for frivolous lawsuits being filed. You're
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Speaker 1: going to get yosted. So can you give me a
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Speaker 1: legal theory?
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Speaker 3: Take two, Nancy, The legal theory is very simple. In
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Speaker 3: our country, under Section nineteen eighty three of our United
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Speaker 3: States Constitution, we are granted the right to be free
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Speaker 3: from outside influences at a trial, on our trial before
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Speaker 3: our peers. When you have an independent actor, who, by
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Speaker 3: the way, is a state actor in this case, she's
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Speaker 3: the elected clerk of court. When you have her purposely
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Speaker 3: directly influencing the jury under the color of law, given
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Speaker 3: her a position as third court, that opens her up
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Speaker 3: to a claim of nineteen eighty three Section nineteen eighty
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Speaker 3: three of our United States Constitution that allows for her
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Speaker 3: to be held liable in a civil court of law
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Speaker 3: and to pay damages in addition to damages that being
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Speaker 3: six hundred thousand dollars plus whatever these attorneys can can
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Speaker 3: elicit the try that case, they would also be entitled
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Speaker 3: under nineteen eighty eight US Constitution section to attorney fees
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Speaker 3: and costs for bringing this claim. So I would argue
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Speaker 3: that this is the opposite of frivolous. This is a
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Speaker 3: very legitimate claim against a bad actor who was acting
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Speaker 3: under the color of state law. Under nineteen eighty three
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Speaker 3: US Constitution.
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Speaker 1: There is Alex Murdaud crying on body can but keep
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Speaker 1: watching because suddenly he flips it off and starts checking
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Speaker 1: his cell phone. Please stay on that because I want
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Speaker 1: to see him checking his cell phone. I just wish
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Speaker 1: I could see the text he was actually checking that night. Okay,
7:51
Speaker 1: hold on while we're watching Alex Murdaud. Oh there you go,
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Speaker 1: force himself to cry in front of the police. Let
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Speaker 1: me understand this, Mark Pepper, please do not throw a
8:03
Speaker 1: lot of Latin phrases. Nobody likes that. Yes, lawyers are
8:08
Speaker 1: forced to learn what they mean, but we don't speak Latin. Okay,
8:13
Speaker 1: what would be the damages? So he gets tried for murder,
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Speaker 1: he gets convicted, She makes off hand comments to the
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Speaker 1: jurors that two of them say color their verdict. He
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Speaker 1: gets the reversal because of her, and he's suing for
8:31
Speaker 1: how much money? I think no jury is going to
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Speaker 1: do this. They're going to laugh him out of court.
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Speaker 1: She threw him a bone, a life preserver.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would argue quite the opposite, but for her
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Speaker 3: jury tampering, in his mind, he would have been acquitted.
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Speaker 3: And that's his position, is that they try a valid case.
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Speaker 3: They had at least one or two jurors that clearly
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Speaker 3: said she influenced their verdict. Now keep in mind, they've
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Speaker 3: voted guilty. So if they're going to take the stand
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Speaker 3: and say Becky Hill influenced my verdict, well then they
9:05
Speaker 3: must have been leaning to not guilty. So his position is,
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Speaker 3: you've now damaged me. I was going to get either
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Speaker 3: a not guilty verdict or at the very worst, a
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Speaker 3: hung trial a mistrial because it wouldn't be unanimous. And
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Speaker 3: so you now owe me the six hundred thousand dollars
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Speaker 3: in costs that I had to spend to try this
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Speaker 3: first case. Because I'm no closer to an acquittal or
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Speaker 3: proven my innocence than I was way back in twenty
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Speaker 3: twenty three.
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Speaker 1: I mean that I got it. I got it, I
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Speaker 1: got it, So I got it. You're stating that in
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Speaker 1: a nutshell, Alex Murdock thinks he would have been acquitted. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: but for Becky Hill's statements to the jury. He thinks
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Speaker 1: he was convicted because Okay, hold on just a moment.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining US renowned chief medical Examiner Ran County.
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Speaker 1: That's for worth, never a lack of business, and the
10:00
Speaker 1: Morgue has conducted literally thousands of autopsies. He is the
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Speaker 1: esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
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Speaker 1: and he is the star of a hit podcast, Mayhem
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Speaker 1: in the Morgue. Doctor Kendall crowns, you just heard defense
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Speaker 1: attorney Mark Pepper insist that the reason Alex and Murlock
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Speaker 1: was convicted is because of the few offhand comments that
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Speaker 1: the court clerk may Becky Hill, could you refresh Mark
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Speaker 1: Pepper's recollection? As we say in court, when a witness
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Speaker 1: screws up on the stand, you have to go, your honor,
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Speaker 1: may I refresh the witness's recollection. Meanwhile, you're boiling and
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Speaker 1: seething inside because you have gone over the material with
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Speaker 1: the witness and yet they still say something completely different
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Speaker 1: what they told you fifteen minutes before. So you have
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Speaker 1: to refresh their recollection with maybe a document or in
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Speaker 1: this case, a medical examiner's report. Becky Hill had nothing
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Speaker 1: to do with what happened to Paul and Maggie. Could
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Speaker 1: you explain, doctor Kendall Crowns, why why the ag is
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Speaker 1: now throwing the death penalty on the table. What did
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Speaker 1: the autopsy tell you about the death the murders of
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Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul.
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Speaker 7: Certainly, so, let's start with Maggie's autopsy. She has five
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Speaker 7: gunshot wounds to her body to her intermediate range, meaning
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Speaker 7: they have gunshot or gunpowder tattooing or stippling, meaning the
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Speaker 7: gunshot wound is between two to six inches to about
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Speaker 7: two to three feet away from her body. One of
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Speaker 7: the gunshot wounds is actually into the back of her
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Speaker 7: skull that goes through her brain. It's almost like an
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Speaker 7: execution type wound. It appears that she gets shot in
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Speaker 7: the abdomen, shot in the thigh at close frains. She's
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Speaker 7: probably fallen to her knees, and then the individual then
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Speaker 7: shoots her in the back of the head, blowing out
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Speaker 7: her brain, killing her. At that point, she also has
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Speaker 7: a gunshot wound to her left wrist, so she could
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Speaker 7: have been holding her arm up trying to block the
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Speaker 7: incoming bullets for all we know. So she was essentially
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Speaker 7: shot to her knees and then executed. The son. On
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Speaker 7: the other hand, he's shot twice with a shotgun, so
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Speaker 7: whoever did the killing switched up, switched up weapons and
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Speaker 7: then killed him with a shotgun, one going through the
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Speaker 7: chest blowing out his armpit, and the other one entering
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Speaker 7: into the neck and then blowing out the top of
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Speaker 7: his head, blowing out his brain as well. So you
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Speaker 7: have two people fatally shot. One even appears to be
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Speaker 7: basically executed at the scene, so you know when you're
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Speaker 7: beginning to talk death penalty, you got to weigh in
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Speaker 7: a number of factors, which I know you fully understand.
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Speaker 7: But it does look like at least Maggie was executed
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Speaker 7: at some point.
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Speaker 1: You know, while you were talking, Doctor Kendall Crown's I
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Speaker 1: was thinking about I mean, this is Buster Murdog, this
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Speaker 1: is Alex Murdog's son, Maggie's son. I was thinking about
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Speaker 1: my own son. And I try not to place my
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Speaker 1: daughter or son in the positions of the victims. But
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Speaker 1: when you're describing bullets ripping through his body, and I
13:35
Speaker 1: know from studying the crime scene that his brain matter
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Speaker 1: was up on the top of a door. It blew
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Speaker 1: out of his head with such ferocity. I know that
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Speaker 1: part of his skull was found in a different location.
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Speaker 1: And I think of my son's beautiful face and head.
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Speaker 1: I can hardly think straight. And for Mark Pepper or
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Speaker 1: hartput Land, or Alex and Murdoch or anybody to say
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Speaker 1: that somehow Becky Hills guilty verdict, they're out of their minds.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendl Crown hold joining me right now is a
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Speaker 1: very special guest. In addition to Bethany Marshall soon to
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Speaker 1: join us, Chris McDonough director Cold Case Foundation, homicide detective
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Speaker 1: Dave mack a friend of Becky Hills. Right now and
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Speaker 1: of course Gg McKelvey Blanca to A B. I. T.
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Speaker 1: Simpson is joining us. This is Murdoch's former house keeper.
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Speaker 1: She's the author of an incredible book, Within the House
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Speaker 1: of Murdoch. I mean I stayed up at night and
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Speaker 1: read that, even though I knew I get up at
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Speaker 1: five o'clock the next morning, I stayed up till I
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Speaker 1: finished it. Within the House of Murdoch. Dot com Blanca,
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Speaker 1: mister baute Simpson, thank you for being with us tonight.
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Speaker 1: What was your reaction when you heard Murdock's case had
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Speaker 1: been reversed.
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Speaker 8: First of all, thank you for having me. I I
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Speaker 8: was shocked, but it wasn't The feelings were more, you know,
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Speaker 8: what about Maggie and Paul. You know, here we go again.
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Speaker 8: Are they going to be lost in all the frenzy?
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Speaker 8: You know that that was my first feeling. Maggie and
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Speaker 8: Paul and I went to I did go to the
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Speaker 8: cemetery right after I heard the news.
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Speaker 4: I just.
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Speaker 8: Felt I don't know, I don't know what it was.
15:55
Speaker 8: I don't know whether it was her. You know I
15:58
Speaker 8: could kind of hear her, you know, saying, girl, you
16:01
Speaker 8: need to come and see me. But I just felt
16:05
Speaker 8: the urge that I needed to go by in even
16:08
Speaker 8: though they can't speak, just to say here we go again.
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Speaker 8: That was and I'm still upset over it. But I
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Speaker 8: respect the court's decision. There's nothing we.
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Speaker 1: Have to respect the court's decision. I agree with you
16:29
Speaker 1: on that, missus Trabiat Simpson. I agree with you. If
16:34
Speaker 1: we don't respect the court's decision, we might as well
16:38
Speaker 1: be in a country that has a rule of man,
16:42
Speaker 1: not a rule of law. Whether we disagree or we
16:46
Speaker 1: agree with a court's decision, you swallow it like it's
16:51
Speaker 1: a lump of coal and keep going if you disagree
16:54
Speaker 1: with it, because that is the rule of law. They
16:58
Speaker 1: have ruled, and we execute their wishes because we are
17:02
Speaker 1: officers of the court and we respect the court. That
17:05
Speaker 1: mean we have to agree with the court. But what
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Speaker 1: do you what do you make of it, Miss Simpson,
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Speaker 1: that it's all because of some comments, some offhand comments.
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Speaker 1: And look, I'm not saying Baky Hill didn't make the comments,
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Speaker 1: and they were wrong and they were inappropriate, and the
17:23
Speaker 1: South Carolina Supreme Court had no choice but to reverse.
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Speaker 1: I get it, but I don't think that what she
17:30
Speaker 1: said is why he was convicted. Did you just hear
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Speaker 1: doctor Kendall Crown's describing a tiny bit of the injuries
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Speaker 1: to Maggie and Paul. I agree with what you're saying.
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Speaker 8: I believe he was convicted based on the evidence of
17:46
Speaker 8: that was presented to the court. I do agree with that.
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Speaker 8: But unfortunately the limelight and the stardom, you know, got
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Speaker 8: involved than all this, and uh missed went to Miss
18:03
Speaker 8: Becky Hill's head. And here we are again, you know,
18:08
Speaker 8: just when we thought everybody was going back, you know,
18:11
Speaker 8: to some kind of normalcy, here we go again with
18:14
Speaker 8: this and it's opening up, you know, the wound that
18:19
Speaker 8: was starting to close, and it's hard. I believe the
18:27
Speaker 8: dogs told on him. You know that he was not
18:29
Speaker 8: alone when he made that call.
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Speaker 7: He was not alone.
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Speaker 8: I call him the cleaners. I will not disclose who
18:34
Speaker 8: I believe. I know who they who I think they are.
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Speaker 8: You know, more than positive I know who they are.
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Speaker 8: When Alex, Maggie and Paul were at the kennels, if
18:47
Speaker 8: you hear the kennel video, you don't hear the other dogs.
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Speaker 8: The dogs are calm. As soon as you hear the
18:55
Speaker 8: beginning of the punk call, the dogs are barking and
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Speaker 8: moving around.
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Speaker 1: From our friends at Daily Mail, Ms Simpson explained to
19:03
Speaker 1: me Alex Murdog's behavior before and after the murders.
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Speaker 8: They were normal. There was nothing that would say that
19:13
Speaker 8: they weren't a loving family. They were very caring for
19:16
Speaker 8: each other. They they did everything together. They traveled together.
19:22
Speaker 8: If he was going to be gone on the weekend,
19:24
Speaker 8: you know, him and Maggie would would go together. The
19:26
Speaker 8: boys would go with him too. There was nothing to
19:29
Speaker 8: indicate that there was anything wrong with the family, with
19:35
Speaker 8: anybody in the family. Of course, there was stress you
19:37
Speaker 8: know here and there, like you know most families, but
19:43
Speaker 8: you know with the pending you know, litigation that was
19:45
Speaker 8: coming up. But there was not any issue with them
19:49
Speaker 8: as far as there wasn't anything indicating that there was anything,
19:56
Speaker 8: you know, wrong with the relationship or anything of that sort.
20:00
Speaker 8: After the after the murders.
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Speaker 3: He was very.
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Speaker 8: He was like inconsolable. He was you know, he would cry,
20:14
Speaker 8: He would you know, kind of like sit and kind
20:19
Speaker 8: of like look off at a distance. But there was
20:22
Speaker 8: a lot of people around him during that time. You know,
20:25
Speaker 8: trying to console him, and then there was moments where
20:28
Speaker 8: you know, he was fine, and then there was moments
20:30
Speaker 8: where he would just start crying.
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Speaker 1: So let me understand this. Do you in some way
20:35
Speaker 1: think Marlog is innocent?
20:38
Speaker 8: No, ma'am, I don't.
20:42
Speaker 1: Joining me now, renow it. Psycho analyst out of the
20:46
Speaker 1: LA jurisdiction, Doctor Bethany Marshall. She's the author of deal Breaker.
20:51
Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and
20:55
Speaker 1: you can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
20:58
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany I dislike him even more now after hearing
21:05
Speaker 1: Missips to speak, because after the murders, he sat around
21:10
Speaker 1: and let everyone console him, knowing he committed the double murders,
21:17
Speaker 1: shooting Maggie in the back of the skull execution style stippling.
21:22
Speaker 1: You've been with us enough to know what that means.
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Speaker 1: That means that the gun was so close to her
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Speaker 1: head it burned her skin. And he is getting consoled
21:33
Speaker 1: and people are making food for him and bringing him
21:35
Speaker 1: flowers and patting on the back and handing him kleenex.
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Speaker 1: Really is disgusting.
21:40
Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, not only is it disgusting, it's his moment
21:43
Speaker 9: of glory, right, So you know, Alex Murdoch was excellent.
21:48
Speaker 9: He was practiced at extracting resources from other people, whether
21:52
Speaker 9: it's money from clients, trust funds, whether it was sympathy
21:56
Speaker 9: from the people around him. He was good at acting.
21:59
Speaker 9: And Nancy, let me remind the viewers that his offending
22:02
Speaker 9: pattern was he would spend money that was not his
22:06
Speaker 9: to spend. Maybe he stole it from a client trust account,
22:09
Speaker 9: or he would like with Gloria Saturley, he would say
22:12
Speaker 9: to her sons, hey, why don't we just file a
22:14
Speaker 9: wrongful death lawsuit against me and you can have the money. Then,
22:18
Speaker 9: of course he keeps the money. So what he perennially
22:21
Speaker 9: has to do is steal from the next victim in
22:25
Speaker 9: order to repay the victim from the time before. So
22:28
Speaker 9: that is exactly what he's doing with this court case.
22:31
Speaker 9: It's the same offending pattern. Now he has a chance
22:35
Speaker 9: to say, hey, I don't really owe that six hundred
22:38
Speaker 9: thousand dollars to my attorneys. Becky Hill, you pay it.
22:41
Speaker 9: You're the one who got me this guilty verdict, so
22:44
Speaker 9: you pay it. Now I have even more resources to expend.
22:47
Speaker 9: Although you know what, Nancy, you know who's he's stealing from. Now,
22:51
Speaker 9: he's stealing from the taxpayers. He's stealing from us because
22:54
Speaker 9: this is going to be a new, long, expensive court case.
22:57
Speaker 9: So the offending pattern is going on and on and on.
23:02
Speaker 9: It's like will it never end? And I bet whatever
23:05
Speaker 9: depression he was experiencing behind bars has evaporated because he's
23:09
Speaker 9: gotten away with it once again.
23:12
Speaker 1: Talked to Bouthny. What I don't understand is how you
23:16
Speaker 1: can keep a straight face with everyone rubbing your shoulders
23:21
Speaker 1: and handing you Kleenex and making you chicken soup after
23:25
Speaker 1: you just murdered your son and your wife and left
23:28
Speaker 1: them to bleed into the dirt and the dog kennel.
23:32
Speaker 9: They were all marks, just like all of his clients
23:35
Speaker 9: who he stole from out of their trust funds, and
23:37
Speaker 9: then the people from the church, and his housekeeper and
23:40
Speaker 9: everybody cooking for him. He loves to manipulate out of
23:45
Speaker 9: other people.
23:45
Speaker 5: He loves to get.
23:46
Speaker 9: Things that are not his, to get that do not
23:49
Speaker 9: belong to him, even if it's just sympathy, he loves
23:53
Speaker 9: to get it. Nancy. He doesn't have a conscience. He's
23:56
Speaker 9: one of these people where we can truly and accurately
24:00
Speaker 9: use the word cold blooded, because if you heard the
24:04
Speaker 9: housekeeper just now Bianca, she's talking about how he was
24:07
Speaker 9: going on trips with the kids and they're going hunting
24:11
Speaker 9: together and all of that. He's acting like a dad, Nancy,
24:15
Speaker 9: whereas people have no problem just seeing their brains flattered
24:18
Speaker 9: out somewhere. That's how little he actually thinks of them.
24:21
Speaker 9: They're just like a woman putting on jewelry. That's just adornment.
24:26
Speaker 5: It's just jewelry.
24:27
Speaker 9: It's just there to make her look better in the moment.
24:30
Speaker 9: That's what his family was like. They actually, in a
24:32
Speaker 9: way were like the Beard. There were the people who
24:35
Speaker 9: he assembled around him to make him look normal while
24:38
Speaker 9: he was stealing from other people. So he in a
24:42
Speaker 9: way recruited them as foot soldiers in his crime enterprises.
24:47
Speaker 1: Joining me now in director Colcay's foundation. Former homicide detective
24:51
Speaker 1: who has worked over three hundred homicides and he is
24:54
Speaker 1: the star of the interview room on YouTube. Our friend,
24:58
Speaker 1: our colleague, Chris Donna. We disagree wildly on the Guthrie case,
25:04
Speaker 1: but I believe we agree on this case. Chris mcdonaugh,
25:08
Speaker 1: have you ever seen a defendant win in court? Whether
25:13
Speaker 1: it's not guilty verdict, whether it's emotion, whether it's getting
25:17
Speaker 1: rid of a juror, or they don't want and you
25:21
Speaker 1: look at them, you know they did it, and they're
25:24
Speaker 1: getting a victory like Murdoch has gotten. This is a
25:28
Speaker 1: huge victory to get a reversal on a double murder
25:34
Speaker 1: that hardly ever happens, but it has happened. And then
25:39
Speaker 1: the prosecutors, the sheriff's sled South Carolina law enforcement. They
25:48
Speaker 1: have to watch him gloat. It's sickening. But I'll tell
25:53
Speaker 1: you what's even more disturbing is imagining him at the
25:57
Speaker 1: funeral home or with everyone falling all over him and
26:01
Speaker 1: he knows he did it.
26:05
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean, you know, we have to respect our system, right.
26:09
Speaker 10: But at the same time, to your point exactly, Nancy,
26:12
Speaker 10: you know this is a gentleman, you know, as the
26:15
Speaker 10: good doctor Bethany has just pointed out this guy's past feeling.
26:20
Speaker 10: I mean, he he has no capacity to understand what
26:24
Speaker 10: it's like to have the sense of empathy. The fact
26:28
Speaker 10: that he pulls his wife to the property that evening
26:33
Speaker 10: and then calls his son while going to the property,
26:37
Speaker 10: so he's got two things happening he's calling Buster, you know,
26:41
Speaker 10: just checking in on the family, saying he's going to
26:43
Speaker 10: go see Mom and Paul, while intensely knowing he's going
26:48
Speaker 10: to blow their heads off and or execute them. As
26:52
Speaker 10: you know, doctor earlier had pointed out, this guy set
26:56
Speaker 10: this entire thing up. God set a witness at that
27:01
Speaker 10: kennel that evening, and that was the dog. And then
27:04
Speaker 10: the second piece of that, obviously was the video where
27:08
Speaker 10: you can hear his voice. You know, this guy, if
27:12
Speaker 10: he ever gets another opportunity, I agree, I think he's
27:17
Speaker 10: going to take the stand. I think it would be
27:20
Speaker 10: a foolish thing to do, obviously, but I believe he
27:24
Speaker 10: may take the stand again, and you know, we're up
27:27
Speaker 10: for another crazy time.
27:30
Speaker 1: Alex murdog is heading to a retrial very quickly. To
27:35
Speaker 1: Martin Pepper, a veteran trial lawyer out of Charleston, South Carolina,
27:40
Speaker 1: it's very rare that a murder case, much less a
27:43
Speaker 1: double murder case gets reversed, but it has happened. Is
27:48
Speaker 1: there any way on God's green earth mark that the
27:53
Speaker 1: state is going to enter into a guilty.
27:55
Speaker 3: Plea zero points zero percent chance, and even if one
28:01
Speaker 3: were to be offered, Nancy there's a zero percent chance
28:05
Speaker 3: that Alec would even entertain it. This is going to trial,
28:09
Speaker 3: but the Attorney General's Office has already indicated that they
28:12
Speaker 3: intend to reindict should they choose to and get this
28:16
Speaker 3: case to trial, perhaps by the end of the year.
28:18
Speaker 3: Dick Harpoutley and Jim Griffin have all come out and
28:22
Speaker 3: said we look forward to our day in court. The
28:24
Speaker 3: only question is where the trial may occur and when.
28:27
Speaker 3: But there's a zero percent chance that anybody will be
28:30
Speaker 3: talking plea.
28:31
Speaker 1: Offered okay two Dave Mack joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter.
28:37
Speaker 1: That means if there's not a plea, there's going to
28:39
Speaker 1: be a trial. There's only one way Marlow could plea
28:43
Speaker 1: without the state agreeing to it, and that would be
28:46
Speaker 1: a blind plea, which means you don't have an agreement
28:49
Speaker 1: as to the sentence. You just put it up to
28:51
Speaker 1: the judge, and for all we know that judge could
28:53
Speaker 1: give the death penalty on a blind plea and you
28:55
Speaker 1: can't take it back once you do. A blind play.
28:59
Speaker 1: A blind please is where the prosecutor and the defense
29:02
Speaker 1: do not agree on the sentence and the defense just
29:05
Speaker 1: puts it to the judge. They plead guilty, and they
29:08
Speaker 1: stand there and wait to find out what the judge
29:09
Speaker 1: is going to say in sentencing. That's not going to happen.
29:12
Speaker 1: So Mark Pepper is right, there's not going to be
29:14
Speaker 1: a plea in this case. Listen, never will wait guilty
29:18
Speaker 1: off the table.
29:19
Speaker 4: We want to try.
29:20
Speaker 11: Yeah, they can dismiss it.
29:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, they can dismiss these charges, you know, but he'll
29:27
Speaker 4: never entered to a plea which require some admission that
29:33
Speaker 4: he did something he didn't do.
29:34
Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox straight out to Dave Matt
29:37
Speaker 1: Crime Stories, investigative reporter, tell me about the death penalty.
29:43
Speaker 1: What's happening, Nancy.
29:45
Speaker 12: It was interesting that Harpoutlian said, Hey, what has changed
29:49
Speaker 12: in the last few years that now you put the
29:53
Speaker 12: death penalty on the table. Well, South Carolina Attorney General
29:57
Speaker 12: Alan Wilson confirming that his office is considering seeking the
30:02
Speaker 12: death penalty against Murda should he be found guilty a
30:05
Speaker 12: second time. The idea behind this is that when they
30:10
Speaker 12: did the first trial, Nancy, they were having problems in
30:14
Speaker 12: South Carolina with actually carrying out the death penalty, and
30:19
Speaker 12: there was a moratorium. They were dealing with the drugs
30:22
Speaker 12: and everything that goes into the actual death penalty sentence.
30:25
Speaker 12: That's why it wasn't put on the table the first time.
30:29
Speaker 12: Now that they're coming back to it, it's a much
30:31
Speaker 12: different situation. If you remember, during the first trial, there
30:35
Speaker 12: was a lot of debate over how much of the
30:37
Speaker 12: financial accusations of wrongdoing would come into the trial. Well,
30:41
Speaker 12: that's all a foregone conclusion. Now we know what he
30:44
Speaker 12: pleaded there. So this is just straight up one thing
30:47
Speaker 12: and one thing only. It's the murders of Maggie and Paul,
30:51
Speaker 12: nothing else. And now South Carolina says we're putting the
30:55
Speaker 12: death penalty on the table. Possibly.
30:58
Speaker 11: Okay. Now, one one was see old soccer Hatchie Road. Okay,
31:04
Speaker 11: what's sad dress on? Salcatcha room? I'm by the church.
31:07
Speaker 11: Uh what church do you? What church are you talking about? Uh?
31:13
Speaker 11: I don't know the name of it with the red roof?
31:17
Speaker 11: Say what end of sarcatta roof? Cause I don't know
31:19
Speaker 11: where you're talking about at the Hampton County side. Okay,
31:25
Speaker 11: what's going on? I stopped I got a flat tire
31:29
Speaker 11: and somebody stopped to help me, and when I turned
31:34
Speaker 11: my back, they tried to shoot me. Oh, okay, where
31:38
Speaker 11: you shot? Yes, but I mean I'm okay you shot where?
31:43
Speaker 11: Where were you shot at? Huh? They actually shoot you
31:49
Speaker 11: or they tried to shoot you? They shot me? But okay,
31:53
Speaker 11: wait you need ems? Uh huh? Well, I mean yes,
31:58
Speaker 11: I I can't drive, okay, and I'm bleeding a lot.
32:03
Speaker 11: We're part of your body, I'm not sure somewhere on
32:07
Speaker 11: my head.
32:08
Speaker 1: Gg McKelvey joining US Investigative Journalist's host All pretty lies
32:12
Speaker 1: and alibis. Gig, you remember that right after gunning down
32:19
Speaker 1: his wife and son, he then set up an elaborate
32:22
Speaker 1: plot to have himself shot on a rural road to
32:27
Speaker 1: make it look like the real killer was after him.
32:32
Speaker 1: Then he shows up in court after his lawyer said
32:35
Speaker 1: he had brain damage with a band aid right here.
32:40
Speaker 1: Really do you remember that?
32:44
Speaker 5: I remember it well.
32:45
Speaker 6: I remember getting that alert on my phone, and at
32:47
Speaker 6: first we all thought, whoever got Maggie and Paul definitely
32:51
Speaker 6: tried to get him, But very quickly the story seemed
32:54
Speaker 6: to fall apart, and.
32:57
Speaker 1: Gig, you actually thought that somebody else killed Paul and
33:03
Speaker 1: Maggie and they were after Alex Murdoch. You really thought
33:06
Speaker 1: that for a minute.
33:08
Speaker 6: Well, at the time I thought why would anybody just
33:12
Speaker 6: shoot him on the side of the road. I didn't
33:14
Speaker 6: think it, didn't even compute that he had set this up.
33:16
Speaker 6: I mean, it's almost unbelievable to think that. So for
33:20
Speaker 6: a hot minute, yeah, I thought.
33:21
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, on your screen, did you see that?
33:24
Speaker 1: Can I see his head again? There's the injury. I
33:29
Speaker 1: can't even see it.
33:31
Speaker 5: Yeah, my kids got seen when they were little. Yeah, okay,
33:36
Speaker 5: but around.
33:36
Speaker 1: There was this one time my son scraped his knee
33:38
Speaker 1: and it was worse than that. So he actually bamboozled
33:42
Speaker 1: you because when I heard he was shot in the head.
33:46
Speaker 1: But when I heard the nine one one, he's perfectly lucid.
33:51
Speaker 1: The first thing I thought was, now, how did Murdoch
33:54
Speaker 1: arrange to be shot on a rural road to make
33:57
Speaker 1: it look like the real killers wandering around out there?
34:00
Speaker 1: That was my first thought. And guess what, Yeah, that
34:03
Speaker 1: is exactly.
34:03
Speaker 6: An accent, right, And after I heard that nine one
34:07
Speaker 6: one call.
34:07
Speaker 5: I said, oh no, no, no, this was set up.
34:09
Speaker 6: But just for a second, you hear, you know, our
34:12
Speaker 6: local news comes across and says, you know, Elec Murdoch
34:15
Speaker 6: shot on the side of the road. I thought, oh man,
34:17
Speaker 6: they got him. But after hearing that nine one one call,
34:20
Speaker 6: I said, oh no, this was an inside job. He
34:22
Speaker 6: knew exactly who did it, and he set it up.
34:27
Speaker 1: To Mark Pepper joining US veteran trial lawyer in this jurisdiction.
34:32
Speaker 1: My whole point, why do I care about him having
34:34
Speaker 1: himself shot on the side of the road just enough
34:37
Speaker 1: to make it look bad?
34:40
Speaker 8: S O d D.
34:41
Speaker 1: Some other dude did it. He's going to try the
34:44
Speaker 1: same thing from what I hear, and they may rethink this.
34:48
Speaker 1: They should. They're going to try to blame some other
34:52
Speaker 1: dude for doing it. Somebody else shot Paul and Maggie,
34:57
Speaker 1: same thing as getting shot on the side of the road.
35:00
Speaker 1: Some other dude did it. Turns out to be his
35:02
Speaker 1: wonky cousin. That's some other dude that he paid to
35:05
Speaker 1: do it. So are they really going to go down
35:08
Speaker 1: that road? Pepper?
35:10
Speaker 3: Well, I don't think they have a choice at this point.
35:12
Speaker 3: You know, you're you're trying to create reasonable doubt. One
35:15
Speaker 3: way to do it is to point to third party guilt.
35:18
Speaker 3: You know, I stay within the laws and the confines
35:20
Speaker 3: of our constitutional rules of evidence. But yeah, some other
35:24
Speaker 3: dude did it is always a valid defense. We know,
35:28
Speaker 3: cousin Eddie's out there. We've got other you know, drug
35:31
Speaker 3: smuggling operations with this opioid addiction out there. I think
35:34
Speaker 3: we're going to see a different type of defense put
35:38
Speaker 3: on here in this next retrial. Some other dude did
35:41
Speaker 3: it will play at some point in this trial. They've
35:44
Speaker 3: got everything they need to do it. They've got the
35:46
Speaker 3: cousin Eddie, they've got all the characters. You've got other
35:50
Speaker 3: you know, victims out there. You've got these bad actors
35:54
Speaker 3: down to the Walterborough all the way down to Hampton County,
35:57
Speaker 3: Beaufort County. There's plenty of other people who potentially had opportunity.
36:01
Speaker 3: Now motive that's gonna be tough to convince. Clearly Alec
36:06
Speaker 3: would be the one that had the most motive, but
36:08
Speaker 3: certainly that is going to be a defense in this retrial.
36:12
Speaker 3: Some other dude did it?
36:14
Speaker 1: What dude, let me see his face while he spins
36:16
Speaker 1: out this big lie. Hold on, what dude? You like?
36:19
Speaker 1: You know what? This is a compliment? Did you ever
36:21
Speaker 1: read to your children Rumpel stills Ken Do you remember
36:24
Speaker 1: that the imp that could take straw and spin it
36:29
Speaker 1: into gold? That's what Hart poutleyan does. That's what you're.
36:33
Speaker 5: Doing right now?
36:34
Speaker 1: What other dude? What some other dude?
36:38
Speaker 3: Well, the beauty of it doesn't matter that that's the
36:41
Speaker 3: beauty of the trial system.
36:42
Speaker 1: Nancy, give me a cleanex Well.
36:48
Speaker 3: Look, that's what good criminal defense lawyers do, given.
36:54
Speaker 1: Just anybody will do.
36:56
Speaker 3: Oh, you just you're trying to prevent twelve reasonably minded
37:00
Speaker 3: people from convicting your client beyond reasonable doubt. You don't
37:03
Speaker 3: have to come up with names. You don't have to
37:04
Speaker 3: come up with places and who they are and how
37:07
Speaker 3: they did it. You've just got to create the reasonable
37:09
Speaker 3: doubt by pointing to someone other than the guy sitting
37:12
Speaker 3: in the defense chair next to you. I mean, that's
37:15
Speaker 3: how those things play out, and that's what we criminal
37:17
Speaker 3: defense lawyers do, and do quite well here in Stulth coming.
37:20
Speaker 1: I bet you do. You know, I've got a question
37:26
Speaker 1: based on what you just said. I can see Hart
37:31
Speaker 1: Putlin spinning it out and blaming some body, somebody that
37:38
Speaker 1: would want to kill Maggie and Paul. But then suddenly
37:42
Speaker 1: it got complicated. Dave mac alan, Oh what a tunneled
37:47
Speaker 1: web we weave when first we practice to deceive Dave
37:51
Speaker 1: mac Because in his ill fated effort to pretend the
37:57
Speaker 1: real killer was out there and tried to kill him
38:00
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. What he has done
38:03
Speaker 1: now is forever poison his well and telling a jury
38:08
Speaker 1: some other dude did it. Uh huh, because he's already
38:12
Speaker 1: tried that once. And I can just hear the prosecution
38:16
Speaker 1: shooting a torpedo into some other dude did it defense,
38:21
Speaker 1: And that is where the defense is headed. As Pepper
38:25
Speaker 1: pointed out, they may not have any choice. They're working
38:27
Speaker 1: with what they've got. But he's already gone to that well,
38:31
Speaker 1: he's already been there. How can he with a straight
38:34
Speaker 1: face claim again some other dude did it Dave Matt again.
38:40
Speaker 1: Back to the death penalty. A lot is riding on this,
38:45
Speaker 1: the state now announcing they are considering the death penalty
38:50
Speaker 1: on Alex Murdock and Dave Matt. You and I have
38:53
Speaker 1: analyzed this many many times. The aggravating circumstances required for
38:58
Speaker 1: the death penalty Dave, such as mass murder more than
39:02
Speaker 1: one body qualifies as mass murder under the law. Here
39:06
Speaker 1: we've got two lying in wait. He lured Maggie and
39:11
Speaker 1: Paul to Mozille, the hunting lodge, and he lay in
39:15
Speaker 1: wait for the right moment to murder them. Also pecuniary
39:20
Speaker 1: or money interest. His whole point in killing them was
39:24
Speaker 1: he did not want his financial crimes to the tune
39:28
Speaker 1: of twelve million dollars to be exposed as they would
39:32
Speaker 1: in a divorce proceeding or a civil lawsuit against him
39:35
Speaker 1: and his son Paul. So, long story, short, aggravating circumstances,
39:42
Speaker 1: Dave mac you and I covered it the first time.
39:46
Speaker 1: It's teeming with death penalty aggravation.
39:49
Speaker 12: Nancy, You're dead on right. Everything that is needed to
39:53
Speaker 12: try this as a death penalty case is right there
39:57
Speaker 12: when you look at the financial motive, the idea that
40:01
Speaker 12: everything in his world was falling apart financially, I mean,
40:05
Speaker 12: it was all there. On top of that, he knew
40:09
Speaker 12: there was more damage financially and otherwise coming from a
40:13
Speaker 12: possible trial about Paul's at boat crash. So all of
40:17
Speaker 12: these negatives are stepping up, and you know the one
40:20
Speaker 12: thing that's not being mentioned, Nancy, is that Maggie was
40:25
Speaker 12: not staying at Mozelle. She was at the beach house.
40:28
Speaker 12: She was not even she did not want to be
40:30
Speaker 12: around her husband anymore. And he knew it. He had
40:34
Speaker 12: to lure her back from the beach house to come
40:37
Speaker 12: to Mozelle that night, and it plays out. The digital
40:41
Speaker 12: evidence is there that what took place that night, how
40:44
Speaker 12: it took place, and all of motivation to match up
40:47
Speaker 12: for what's needed in a death penalty case. It's right there.
40:51
Speaker 1: Gg McKelvey joining us out of this jurisdiction South Carolina
40:55
Speaker 1: investigative journalists and star of Pretty Lies and alibis Gigi,
40:59
Speaker 1: what are the betting odds that the state's going to
41:01
Speaker 1: see the death penalty?
41:04
Speaker 5: I think it's a very good chance.
41:07
Speaker 6: Just like what was just mentioned is it does check
41:11
Speaker 6: all the aggravating factors, and I think that that Alan Wilson,
41:14
Speaker 6: you know a lot of people have said, is this
41:16
Speaker 6: a political move because this re election year? But I
41:20
Speaker 6: do think that they will go for the death penalty
41:23
Speaker 6: just to just to really sock it to him for
41:25
Speaker 6: having to do this twice and also because of what
41:29
Speaker 6: was done to Maggie and Paul and how egregious it was.
41:32
Speaker 1: We are told Vegas odds are very slim, but pointing
41:37
Speaker 1: to the state will seek the death penalty against Alex Murdoch.
41:44
Speaker 1: If you believe a gambling outfit. That said, the first
41:49
Speaker 1: time around, we were told that because there had been
41:52
Speaker 1: a moratorium of sorts on the death penalty in South Carolina,
41:56
Speaker 1: it hadn't been sought for thirteen years, that there was
41:59
Speaker 1: no point in see it because it couldn't be obtained.
42:02
Speaker 1: Well that has changed. Let's see the state follows through
42:06
Speaker 1: on the double murders of Maggie and Paul, and one
42:11
Speaker 1: more time to doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Crowns, could you
42:16
Speaker 1: re enlighten us refresh our recollections on what happened to
42:23
Speaker 1: Paul and Maggie.
42:26
Speaker 7: So again, Maggie had five gunshot wounds about her body,
42:31
Speaker 7: two of which one in the abdomen one in the
42:33
Speaker 7: thigh had gunpowder stippling or gunpowder tattooing, which means they
42:37
Speaker 7: occurred anywhere from two to six inches to two to
42:41
Speaker 7: three feet, so the gun was in intermediate range when
42:44
Speaker 7: it was shot at them. One of the wounds was
42:46
Speaker 7: to the back of her head that entered into her
42:49
Speaker 7: skull and went into her brain and would have killed her.
42:51
Speaker 7: So it does appear that she was shot down, shot
42:55
Speaker 7: to her knees, and then executed with the gunshot wound
42:58
Speaker 7: being put into the back of her head. She does
43:01
Speaker 7: also have a wound to her left wrist, which could
43:03
Speaker 7: be her trying to block being shot at the time
43:08
Speaker 7: it was all occurring. The Sun has two shotgun injuries,
43:13
Speaker 7: one to the chest that comes into his chest and
43:16
Speaker 7: blows out of the armpit, and then one that comes
43:19
Speaker 7: into the neck and then blows out the top of
43:21
Speaker 7: his head, taking out a large portion of his brain.
43:25
Speaker 7: So they were both shot multiple times and with different weapons,
43:29
Speaker 7: one with a high powered rifle, the other with a shotgun.
43:33
Speaker 1: The state will have to give a clear and convincing
43:36
Speaker 1: reason under the law as to White is seeking the
43:39
Speaker 1: death penalty second time around when it didn't the first
43:42
Speaker 1: time around, to insure to a court satisfaction that they
43:47
Speaker 1: are not seeking the death penalty out of punishment for
43:52
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog appealing and getting a new trial. I believe
43:56
Speaker 1: they can carry that burden. The state is building its case.
44:00
Speaker 1: It's a whole new trial. If you know or think
44:03
Speaker 1: you know anything regarding this case, please dial eight zero
44:07
Speaker 1: three eight nine six two six zero five. We remember
44:12
Speaker 1: an American hero officer Jeff McCoy, Oklahoma Department Corrections shot
44:19
Speaker 1: killed in a line of duty after seven years, leaving
44:23
Speaker 1: behind wife Megan and two children, Alexander and Ali. American
44:30
Speaker 1: Hero Officer Jeffrey McCoy thank you to our guest, but
44:34
Speaker 1: especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray signing
44:37
Speaker 1: off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night, and
44:40
Speaker 1: until then, good night, friend,