Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / "Boys" Book Release - Kylie Interviews Justin

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"Boys" Book Release - Kylie Interviews Justin · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:06
Speaker 1: It is a big day today. Hello, welcome to the
0:08
Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. I'm so excited the brand new book
0:11
Speaker 1: Boys Building Strong young Men from the inside out. It's here,
0:17
Speaker 1: It's arrived, It's on the shelves of the bookstores. And
0:20
Speaker 1: today we're going to talk boys.
0:23
Speaker 2: Well today, actually you are going to sit in the
0:26
Speaker 2: passenger seat because I am going to drive our podcast.
0:31
Speaker 2: I thought it might be great if I interviewed the
0:34
Speaker 2: man behind the book.
0:35
Speaker 1: I love that you're You've gone all formal. When you
0:38
Speaker 1: run this podcast, you take over in a big way.
0:42
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to ask you a whole heap of questions.
0:44
Speaker 1: I feel like I've got the school principal reading down
0:47
Speaker 1: my neck and telling me I'm in trouble.
0:49
Speaker 2: You're terrible. Today we're going to have a great conversation.
0:52
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you some questions, and we're going
0:54
Speaker 2: to find out how this book actually came about and
0:59
Speaker 2: what led you to go down the path you went
1:01
Speaker 2: specifically with the book. I'm going to give you a
1:04
Speaker 2: lightning round I love and I'm going to see if
1:06
Speaker 2: I can stump you once or twice.
1:07
Speaker 1: I love it.
1:08
Speaker 2: And then we're gonna pull it all together at.
1:09
Speaker 1: The end, you're looking at all your notes like you
1:11
Speaker 1: you've come prepared. I told you that you needed to
1:13
Speaker 1: prep but I wasn't quite sure that this. Didn't expect
1:15
Speaker 1: this is where we'd end up. Let's see how it
1:17
Speaker 1: goes the interview that I've just found out about commencers next. Hello,
1:25
Speaker 1: welcome to the Happy Family Podcast.
1:26
Speaker 2: Job.
1:27
Speaker 1: I'm so used to just doing it all right, you
1:30
Speaker 1: do it, You've got your notes. I'm just going to
1:32
Speaker 1: be the passenger you told me you were driving.
1:36
Speaker 2: Hello. Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, where you get
1:39
Speaker 2: real life parenting solutions every day. We're the most downloaded
1:43
Speaker 2: parenting podcast in Australia and today we're talking to doctor
1:48
Speaker 2: Justin Coulson about his brand new book Boys.
1:53
Speaker 1: I wish that we were videoing this. We must be
1:54
Speaker 1: one of the only podcasts that doesn't video. But you
1:56
Speaker 1: are so animated, your hands are going everywhere like you
1:59
Speaker 1: are really in control of this podcast. Okay, so let's
2:02
Speaker 1: talk about it, because yeah, I'm pumped. The books out,
2:05
Speaker 1: it's on shelves, you can you can buy it right now.
2:07
Speaker 1: You can walk into a bookstore and a shopping center.
2:09
Speaker 1: If if you still do those things or get online
2:11
Speaker 1: and they'll literally they'll post it to you.
2:13
Speaker 2: Stop talking. Okay, sorry, sorry, I haven't asked you a
2:16
Speaker 2: question yet to do this so hard. So I may
2:20
Speaker 2: not have written the book, and I may not have
2:23
Speaker 2: had the sleepless nights that you had, but I have
2:26
Speaker 2: stood beside you through thick and thin while this book
2:29
Speaker 2: has come about. And one of the number one questions
2:35
Speaker 2: that people have wanted to know when you have said
2:38
Speaker 2: that your next book was all about boys being a
2:42
Speaker 2: father of all girls, is what made you feel equipped
2:47
Speaker 2: to write a book on this topic.
2:49
Speaker 1: If I had a dollar for every time I've been
2:51
Speaker 1: asked that question, and I started doing a cheeky response
2:55
Speaker 1: when people would ask me, like over the last few years,
2:57
Speaker 1: I'd be like, there's plenty of male doctors who have
3:00
Speaker 1: about childbirth, right, Like, just because you have an experience,
3:03
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that you don't have a whole lot
3:04
Speaker 1: of research and a whole lot of other kinds of experience.
3:07
Speaker 1: And ultimately, I'm not sure if that's the most helpful analogy.
3:11
Speaker 1: You didn't look commenced by it when I just said it.
3:13
Speaker 2: I think the one that I've heard you say is
3:15
Speaker 2: there's lots of male gynecologists out there.
3:18
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, the same same. I don't know if that's
3:21
Speaker 1: but here's the thing. I've got skin in the game.
3:25
Speaker 1: We've got six daughters. They're interacting with boys every single day.
3:29
Speaker 1: I work with and talk to and even mentor a
3:31
Speaker 1: lot of young men. And these young men are the
3:35
Speaker 1: ones who are growing into the men of our future.
3:36
Speaker 1: They're going to marry our daughters, and they're going to
3:38
Speaker 1: be running our societies and as well lots of girls.
3:42
Speaker 1: But right now there's a whole lot of challenges that
3:44
Speaker 1: boys are experiencing. And I had this really beautiful experience.
3:47
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope that she doesn't mind me sharing this.
3:50
Speaker 1: One of my colleagues somebody else who does a lot
3:51
Speaker 1: of this parenting stuff, Michelle Mitchell. She writes great books,
3:55
Speaker 1: she does fantastic presentations, really really wonderfully respected, and she
4:00
Speaker 1: was approached by her publisher who said, we think you
4:03
Speaker 1: should write a book about boys. And she was so
4:05
Speaker 1: kind when I was speaking to her after this experience,
4:08
Speaker 1: she said, I knew that you were working on one,
4:11
Speaker 1: but I actually told the publishers that you were and
4:13
Speaker 1: that I wouldn't do it as a result, but more
4:15
Speaker 1: than anything, I just think you're the right person to
4:17
Speaker 1: do it. Like having that vote of confidence from a
4:19
Speaker 1: colleague who I really think it just has a beautiful
4:23
Speaker 1: warmth and a wonderful way of engaging with parents and
4:26
Speaker 1: supporting them.
4:27
Speaker 2: And a mother of boys and a mother.
4:29
Speaker 1: Of two boys herself, for her to say that it
4:32
Speaker 1: gave me. It just gave me the boost that I needed,
4:34
Speaker 1: the shot in the arm, because every now and again
4:35
Speaker 1: I've wanted myself should I shouldn't I I can tell
4:38
Speaker 1: you right now with the result, I'm so glad that
4:40
Speaker 1: I did it, and I think that parents are also
4:43
Speaker 1: going to feel that way. So yeah, skin in the game,
4:45
Speaker 1: and it just felt like it was the right book
4:47
Speaker 1: at the right time, and I feel like I was
4:49
Speaker 1: the right person to do it as well.
4:51
Speaker 2: How much of Logan's experience this is your nephew who
4:55
Speaker 2: committed suicide. This is a little bit of a tough
4:58
Speaker 2: one about how much of your nephew Logan's story fueled
5:04
Speaker 2: your need to write this book.
5:06
Speaker 1: Okay, so the book is dedicated to my dad and
5:09
Speaker 1: also the Logan. It's a book about boys, that's book
5:12
Speaker 1: about masculinity. I'd been working on the book for a
5:15
Speaker 1: couple of years. I think about a year and a
5:17
Speaker 1: half when we've lost Logan to suicide, and I kind
5:23
Speaker 1: of threw the book out at that point and just thought,
5:26
Speaker 1: I need to write this differently. This book is not
5:28
Speaker 1: going to help parents the way they need to be helped.
5:30
Speaker 1: There was something about losing Logan that sharpened my focus,
5:35
Speaker 1: that brought the gravity of what I was writing about
5:38
Speaker 1: home in a way that I don't think anything else could.
5:41
Speaker 1: And it was just a really impactful episode. I don't
5:46
Speaker 1: write about it in the book. I've dedicated the book
5:48
Speaker 1: to him, but I haven't really written about it in
5:50
Speaker 1: the book. I want to give parents hope, and a
5:52
Speaker 1: story like that maybe doesn't. But that is what inspired
5:55
Speaker 1: me to make this book. That's probably the reason that
5:57
Speaker 1: I agonized over it the way that I did. I
5:59
Speaker 1: would say the book would have been finished two years
6:01
Speaker 1: ago had we not lost Logan. But in losing Logan,
6:05
Speaker 1: it made me rethink so much about this book and
6:09
Speaker 1: the intensity with which I wrote, and my desire to
6:12
Speaker 1: get it as right as I could is very much
6:14
Speaker 1: based on that shattering experience.
6:17
Speaker 2: So my next question, you've kind of answered, But I
6:20
Speaker 2: wonder if there's any more that you'd add to it.
6:23
Speaker 2: This is your eleventh book, and just in case anyone
6:28
Speaker 2: was wondering, I have sat through.
6:29
Speaker 1: All of them. Yeah, yeah, very much. Yeah.
6:32
Speaker 2: But why was it different to write this one.
6:36
Speaker 1: Well, logan is a massive reason that it was different.
6:41
Speaker 1: I would also say when I talk to parents about
6:44
Speaker 1: raising their kids, they're questions about boys carry a weight
6:47
Speaker 1: that questions about girls don't. I mentioned this in yesterday's
6:51
Speaker 1: conversation as we were sort of reading some of the book.
6:54
Speaker 1: It just feels like the whole world is on the
6:56
Speaker 1: side of girls, and rightly so. But it feels like
6:58
Speaker 1: a lot of people are against boys or are questioning
7:00
Speaker 1: whether or not there's anything we can do for boys,
7:02
Speaker 1: and are really seeing boys as the problem. So when
7:04
Speaker 1: we talk about girls, most people say the world has
7:07
Speaker 1: not supported girls, and therefore we need to get behind them.
7:09
Speaker 1: So therefore everyone's behind girls, which is wonderful. I don't
7:13
Speaker 1: think that that same attitude exists when it comes to boys,
7:16
Speaker 1: and parents are feeling it parents are boys. Sometimes they'll
7:20
Speaker 1: tell me that it's like, I don't like telling everyone
7:21
Speaker 1: that I've got boys, because I feel like I'm being
7:23
Speaker 1: judged because there are some boys out there that are
7:25
Speaker 1: doing things challenging. So once again trying to give hope,
7:29
Speaker 1: trying to define masculinely, try to talk about how we
7:32
Speaker 1: can create structures and systems in our families, in our homes,
7:35
Speaker 1: and in our society. They're going to support boys to
7:37
Speaker 1: do the best versions of themselves that they can be.
7:39
Speaker 1: It was an ordeal. It was harder to write than
7:41
Speaker 1: anything else, and the thinking that I had to do
7:46
Speaker 1: to get this together was challenging. Oh, I should also add,
7:49
Speaker 1: typically when I write a book, I write it, I
7:52
Speaker 1: do a second edit, maybe a third edit, the publisher
7:55
Speaker 1: goes through it, we do a final edit, and it
7:57
Speaker 1: goes to print. Like that makes it sound very easys.
8:00
Speaker 1: They've always been challenging, But with this one you've watched,
8:03
Speaker 1: I think I've done approximately fifteen drafts of this book.
8:07
Speaker 2: I stopped believing you when you said it was done.
8:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I literally did. What I meant was this draft
8:12
Speaker 1: is done, and now I'm going to take a month
8:14
Speaker 1: off and then I'm going to write it again. So
8:17
Speaker 1: I've never written this many drafts of a book. And
8:19
Speaker 1: the feedback like I went out to there's probably been
8:22
Speaker 1: twenty to thirty different people who have all either read
8:26
Speaker 1: the entire book or parts of it, Psychologists, people who
8:29
Speaker 1: work with men and boys, people who run not for
8:31
Speaker 1: profits for men and boys, regular parents across the board.
8:35
Speaker 1: I've had so much input from people who are really
8:38
Speaker 1: really doing it, and that made it a harder to write,
8:42
Speaker 1: but also made it a vastly better book as well.
8:44
Speaker 1: So that would be what I would say without getting
8:47
Speaker 1: even deeper into the process.
8:48
Speaker 2: And then my part two to that question is did
8:52
Speaker 2: it feel different finishing this book compared to your others?
8:55
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, I cried. I felt relief when I feel
9:00
Speaker 1: each other books, but I just I felt yeah. And
9:04
Speaker 1: it's so funny as well, because every book that I've finished,
9:08
Speaker 1: as I read back through it later on. I mean,
9:10
Speaker 1: there are some books that I don't sell anymore. I
9:12
Speaker 1: know that they've helped people, but I don't carry them
9:14
Speaker 1: around the country and sell them when I'm giving talks
9:16
Speaker 1: anymore because I feel like my my more recent work
9:18
Speaker 1: has been better.
9:20
Speaker 2: I mean, you would hope. So, yeah, absolutely, we learn,
9:22
Speaker 2: we grow, we improve.
9:23
Speaker 1: But people still bring those books to me to sign
9:25
Speaker 1: and they're like, can you please sign it? Because it's
9:27
Speaker 1: made like those books have helped people's families I know it.
9:30
Speaker 1: I'm grateful for it. I'm I'm still proud of the books.
9:33
Speaker 1: But gee, i'd write all of them, most of them
9:37
Speaker 1: quite differently. If I was to go again this book,
9:40
Speaker 1: I know it's had just been done. No, no, no, no,
9:42
Speaker 1: this is this book though, Like I read it when
9:44
Speaker 1: I had to do the audio version a couple of
9:46
Speaker 1: months ago in the studio, I closed it and I
9:49
Speaker 1: just thought, yeah, I'm content. I'm genuinely I'm satisfied.
9:56
Speaker 2: The data on boys is pretty confronting in the book.
10:00
Speaker 2: What was the single statistic that stopped you in your tracks?
10:04
Speaker 1: There are so many stats in this book, but I've
10:07
Speaker 1: tried to make them really accessible and readable and part
10:09
Speaker 1: of a narrative. But there was one stat that I
10:13
Speaker 1: want to single out here because it highlights so much
10:16
Speaker 1: of why it's code read for so many of our boys.
10:19
Speaker 1: So the data shows that in primary school, for every
10:23
Speaker 1: ten girls who are suspended, and the reality is it's
10:25
Speaker 1: pretty hard to get ten girls suspended, but for every
10:27
Speaker 1: ten girls that suspended suspended, there are fifty seven boys. Wow,
10:32
Speaker 1: so it's nearly six times the number of boys who
10:34
Speaker 1: are suspended then girls in primary school. Now that's kind
10:37
Speaker 1: of an eye opening stat anyway, because in primary school, like,
10:41
Speaker 1: can you how bad do you have to be to
10:42
Speaker 1: get suspended from.
10:42
Speaker 2: Pro I was going to say, I don't actually think
10:44
Speaker 2: I know personally know a girl who's been suspended.
10:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in those early years kindergarten, first grade, second grade,
10:50
Speaker 1: or prep, depending on what the state you're in, it's
10:53
Speaker 1: almost all boys. As they get older, that's when the
10:56
Speaker 1: girls start to sort of trickle through. The reason that
10:59
Speaker 1: I extracted that off the top of my head as
11:02
Speaker 1: you ask that question, it's because of the downstream effects
11:06
Speaker 1: of that. See, every time you take a child, we'll
11:10
Speaker 1: say a boy in this case, because they're six times
11:11
Speaker 1: more likely in primary school. Every time you take a
11:13
Speaker 1: child out of the classroom, that boy then goes home
11:16
Speaker 1: and he's excluded socially, which means that his relationships don't
11:19
Speaker 1: move on in the same way that everybody else is doing.
11:21
Speaker 1: When he comes back, children see him differently because he's
11:22
Speaker 1: been in trouble maker, because he's been in trouble and
11:25
Speaker 1: caused difficulty. The teachers will treat suspended children differently. Quite
11:30
Speaker 1: often there is a bias that has been measured, and
11:32
Speaker 1: I talk about that in the book, and that child
11:35
Speaker 1: also feels less competent because he's not up to date
11:37
Speaker 1: with the work. As he feels less competent, he's more
11:39
Speaker 1: likely to put his head on the table, stare out
11:40
Speaker 1: the window, niggles, somebody kicks, somebody, react poorly because he
11:44
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to do it. He feels like he's
11:46
Speaker 1: been forced into this situation, and the cycle continues. It
11:50
Speaker 1: gets worse and worse and worse, until we see boys
11:52
Speaker 1: checking out. One of the things that blew me away
11:55
Speaker 1: was just how many boys said I feel like I'm
11:58
Speaker 1: targeted as a student at school, like there's a really
12:01
Speaker 1: big challenge. And if you multiplied that not just from
12:03
Speaker 1: those early primary years, but into the later primary years
12:06
Speaker 1: and then at a high school, it explains part of
12:08
Speaker 1: the reason why we see many boys dropping out early,
12:11
Speaker 1: not doing as well in all the standardized, nationalized tests,
12:14
Speaker 1: why they're less likely to go to university, and why
12:16
Speaker 1: so many of them are less likely to thrive to
12:19
Speaker 1: like one in eight one in eight grade nine boys
12:22
Speaker 1: is functionally illiterate.
12:25
Speaker 2: In today's day and age. That just blows my.
12:28
Speaker 1: It's unacceptable in today's in our modern society. It is unacceptable,
12:33
Speaker 1: full stop end of story. So then there are a
12:36
Speaker 1: million other stats, so we need to take a break.
12:38
Speaker 2: Hang on a sec. This is my podcast.
12:41
Speaker 1: Sorry driving, I'm so sorry I took over.
12:43
Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to do a lightning round.
12:46
Speaker 2: I'm going to try and stump you, right, and then
12:49
Speaker 2: we might have one or two presidents at the other land.
12:51
Speaker 2: Stay with us. We're back. It's the Happy Families Podcast.
13:02
Speaker 2: I'm interviewing doctor Justin Colson, the man behind of the
13:06
Speaker 2: book Boys. Right, So, lightning round, I teased everyone, We're
13:10
Speaker 2: going to do it.
13:11
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm ready.
13:12
Speaker 2: Okay, Remember, a lightning round means that you only answer
13:16
Speaker 2: really short answers. I know, yep, you talk for me,
13:19
Speaker 2: don't overthink no, all right, Okay, boy mum or boy dad?
13:23
Speaker 2: Who has it harder?
13:25
Speaker 1: Boy? Mums? Why? Because they do stress about stuff more
13:29
Speaker 1: like the heavy hitting questions that I get, the worried
13:32
Speaker 1: books that I get. I get dads who are worried
13:35
Speaker 1: about their sons without question, But mums carry that weight
13:39
Speaker 1: in a way that I just don't see on the
13:41
Speaker 1: shoulders and in the faces of dads. Mums are the
13:44
Speaker 1: ones who are going, oh my goodness, I'm.
13:46
Speaker 2: Dying here one thing you did as a parent of
13:48
Speaker 2: daughters that you would do differently if you had sons.
13:52
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really good one. We didn't put any
13:55
Speaker 1: of our kids into gymnastics, and if I had sons,
13:58
Speaker 1: I would put them into gymnastics.
14:00
Speaker 2: Saying that now, because you're watching all the guys in
14:01
Speaker 2: the gym muscle up and they all did gymnastics.
14:06
Speaker 1: The strongest man I know, all the guys who can
14:08
Speaker 1: do all these calisthenics moves like planches and muscle ups
14:10
Speaker 1: and dips and whatever else, they were all gymnasts when
14:14
Speaker 1: they were kids. Like gymnastics makes strong boys. I would
14:16
Speaker 1: love to change the narrative around gymnastics in Australia because
14:21
Speaker 1: what I'm about to say is not appropriate in twenty
14:23
Speaker 1: twenty six, but I'm going to say it anyway. When
14:25
Speaker 1: I was a kid, if a boy was doing gymnastics,
14:28
Speaker 1: he would have been remembered by nineteen seventy five. Baby,
14:31
Speaker 1: he would have been absolutely pilloried and called every homosexual
14:37
Speaker 1: slew you can imagine. And yet, oh my goodness, the
14:41
Speaker 1: guys that I see in the gym who can do
14:42
Speaker 1: all the gymnastics stuff, the handstands like their shoulders there anyway.
14:47
Speaker 1: That's my answer. Gymnastics, lightning around. I don't get a
14:50
Speaker 1: second bite at this.
14:51
Speaker 2: Andrew Tait or a wet sock. Which one is more
14:53
Speaker 2: useful to a teenage boy?
14:55
Speaker 1: Oh, wet sock every day of the year.
14:57
Speaker 2: What's it going to do with a wet sock?
15:00
Speaker 1: Nothing? But that's better than what he's going to do
15:02
Speaker 1: with Andrew Tate. I know it's a lightning round. Let
15:04
Speaker 1: me add some nuance. One of the reasons that Andrew
15:06
Speaker 1: Tate is popular is because he does say stuff that
15:08
Speaker 1: is good and I cringe saying it. I hate saying it.
15:12
Speaker 1: I wish I wasn't saying it. But writing the book,
15:14
Speaker 1: I trolled through heaps of Andrew Tate stuff and he
15:16
Speaker 1: is putrid. He's absolutely foul. I will never endorse the
15:21
Speaker 1: guy and the people like him. But he says enough
15:24
Speaker 1: stuff that's good that kids go, oh, this is useful,
15:28
Speaker 1: which makes the other stuff easier to swallow. But yeah,
15:32
Speaker 1: I would rather if I had a son, I would
15:33
Speaker 1: rather give him a wet sock than access to Andrew Tate.
15:36
Speaker 2: The manuscirit question. The manispere in three.
15:40
Speaker 1: Words, sewage, dressed up.
15:46
Speaker 2: One thing. Boys are genuinely better at than girls. And
15:49
Speaker 2: you can't say sports.
15:50
Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to say sports. Do you know
15:54
Speaker 1: what boys are better at than girls? And we've we've
15:57
Speaker 1: got evidence all over the place for this, their ability
16:00
Speaker 1: to let go of things.
16:03
Speaker 2: I was going to say, compartmentalize. Yeah.
16:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not even compartmentalizing though. It's not like they
16:07
Speaker 1: go on, I'm going to thaw that away for later
16:09
Speaker 1: and put it in the compartment. They'll say what they
16:12
Speaker 1: need to say, they'll work through this thing, and then
16:14
Speaker 1: they just get on with it.
16:15
Speaker 2: When I say compartmentalized, though, I mean they can listen
16:18
Speaker 2: to their mates have a hard time and share all
16:20
Speaker 2: of their kind of you know, emotional junk, and they
16:24
Speaker 2: recognize that that's theirs, so they can sit with them
16:27
Speaker 2: in it. But they don't take it home with them,
16:29
Speaker 2: whereas girls we do, we kind of carry it in
16:32
Speaker 2: our hearts.
16:32
Speaker 1: I've got another three words for the manisphere. Okay, hunger
16:37
Speaker 1: badly fed.
16:39
Speaker 2: Hmm, all right, last question.
16:41
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, I really liked that question. That was a
16:43
Speaker 1: good one.
16:43
Speaker 2: Actually, no, that's it.
16:44
Speaker 1: Boys deserve better. Boys deserve better. There's my three words.
16:47
Speaker 1: I like them all. Okay, Hey, our times up. I
16:51
Speaker 1: know you're driving. Do we have any other questions? Yeah?
16:52
Speaker 2: A couple more quickly? Three more? Can I squeeze three more?
16:55
Speaker 2: And it's going to do it anyway. There's a lot
16:56
Speaker 2: of noise about toxic masculinity, but you do you take
17:00
Speaker 2: a really different approach.
17:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it? The more we talk about toxic masculinity,
17:04
Speaker 1: the more boys feel ashamed of, the more girls hate boys.
17:07
Speaker 1: It's just such an unproductive conversation. What I've also noticed,
17:10
Speaker 1: is I've been doing the research for this book, is
17:12
Speaker 1: that people who are really working hard in this area
17:14
Speaker 1: are starting to use that term less or avoid it completely.
17:18
Speaker 1: Just I don't think it's helpful to be talking about
17:21
Speaker 1: half the population of the planet as toxic. It's just
17:24
Speaker 1: so dreadfully unhelpful. And there are so many good You
17:27
Speaker 1: and I we're surrounded by really, really good men and boys,
17:31
Speaker 1: and you would never use the word toxic in relation
17:34
Speaker 1: to them. So we just need to stop it. And
17:36
Speaker 1: my focus has been on healthy masculinity. The whole book
17:38
Speaker 1: is about healthy masculinity. What is it? How can we
17:40
Speaker 1: help boys to aspire towards it? That's the goal, that's
17:44
Speaker 1: the end game, that's what we're working towards. So let
17:46
Speaker 1: you go where you're looking, and if you keep on
17:48
Speaker 1: looking at the toxic side, that's where you go. But
17:51
Speaker 1: if you can look at the healthy side, you'll end
17:53
Speaker 1: up there. That's what we need to focus on.
17:55
Speaker 2: So if a mum's listening today and she's genuinely scared
17:58
Speaker 2: or concerned the man her son's becoming, what would you
18:02
Speaker 2: say to her?
18:03
Speaker 1: So before I talked to her, I would actually say,
18:07
Speaker 1: you have really thought about some careful questions here. I'm
18:11
Speaker 1: so grateful for that question. I would say, Unfortunately, it's
18:15
Speaker 1: all too understandable that you might be worried about it.
18:18
Speaker 1: I just the world that your son is navigating is
18:23
Speaker 1: I genuinely believe it's legitimately harder in some ways than
18:28
Speaker 1: any previous generation has ever confronted. But then I'd say this,
18:34
Speaker 1: the fact that you're scared means that you're paying attention,
18:36
Speaker 1: but maybe paying attention to the wrong things. Either way,
18:39
Speaker 1: paying attentions where it starts. Most of the moments that
18:42
Speaker 1: I talked to who are worried because their sons have
18:46
Speaker 1: some sort of problem where they've slipped up. What happens
18:50
Speaker 1: is we get into correction and direction mode, and every
18:53
Speaker 1: conversation becomes a lecture, and every interaction becomes a negotiation
18:56
Speaker 1: or a battle. And their son, I was going to say,
18:59
Speaker 1: has quietly close the door on conversation. But sometimes I
19:01
Speaker 1: don't quietly close the door at all. Sometimes they just
19:03
Speaker 1: slam the door, right, And so I would say connection
19:07
Speaker 1: has to come before correction always. You just you cannot
19:11
Speaker 1: lecture a boy into becoming a good man. At no
19:15
Speaker 1: point is he going to look at you and say, oh, well,
19:17
Speaker 1: you've convinced me. Now I've seen the error of my ways.
19:20
Speaker 1: Thank you for that four hundred and thirty second lecture.
19:23
Speaker 1: It's finally the one that's sipped me over the edge
19:25
Speaker 1: of now I'm going to be a good man. That's
19:26
Speaker 1: not what happens. Again, you get what you're focused on.
19:29
Speaker 1: So I would say this, instead of trying to lecture
19:31
Speaker 1: him into becoming a good man, love him into it.
19:34
Speaker 1: I'm getting weepy just thinking about it. Right, if you
19:37
Speaker 1: are patient enough and honest enough, and you recognize that
19:39
Speaker 1: life is long and kids are going to make mistakes,
19:41
Speaker 1: and if you're willing to just sit with him and
19:44
Speaker 1: work with him at his pace, in his way, I
19:47
Speaker 1: think the research is beautifully hopeful there because boys who
19:52
Speaker 1: have just that one person who is there for them
19:55
Speaker 1: no matter what, who genuinely believes in them, they're the
19:59
Speaker 1: ones who usually figure it out. They don't always figure
20:01
Speaker 1: it out on the spot, and certainly not in our timing,
20:04
Speaker 1: but they do. And my response to that question ultimately,
20:07
Speaker 1: for that mom whos struggling is you can be that person.
20:10
Speaker 1: He just might not be showing you that you are
20:12
Speaker 1: that person right now.
20:14
Speaker 2: I know you wrote the book, but I would And
20:16
Speaker 2: male role models, I was about to say, I would add,
20:19
Speaker 2: be really intentional about finding positive role models, male role
20:23
Speaker 2: models that can be part of that village for him.
20:26
Speaker 2: That's really important.
20:27
Speaker 1: I've written a whole chapter on it, and it matters
20:29
Speaker 1: so deeply.
20:30
Speaker 2: So as we finish up, finish this sentence. A good
20:33
Speaker 2: man is someone who.
20:35
Speaker 1: Oh, that's easy, Yeah, I can finish that one. We
20:38
Speaker 1: can finish quickly. A good man is someone who gives
20:42
Speaker 1: more than he takes, who adds surplus value. A good
20:46
Speaker 1: man is a chair stacker, the one who recognizes that
20:48
Speaker 1: the end of the that the event is over and
20:50
Speaker 1: somebody needs some help to get everything put together and
20:52
Speaker 1: put away. A good man is someone who helps the
20:55
Speaker 1: people around him feel safer and stronger.
20:59
Speaker 2: The Happy Family. This podcast is produced by Justin Rulan
21:02
Speaker 2: at Bridge Media. Memhammonds provides additional admin support. And if
21:06
Speaker 2: you'd like any more info or would like your own.
21:10
Speaker 1: Copy, I was going to say, you're gonna plug the
21:12
Speaker 1: book here.
21:13
Speaker 2: Would like your own copy of Boys? You can find it.
21:18
Speaker 1: I need to do this bit booktope you dot com,
21:20
Speaker 1: dot you or wherever you get your books. It's in
21:22
Speaker 1: stores today and tonight. If you have purchased the book
21:25
Speaker 1: and you've got your receipt number logged at Happy Families
21:27
Speaker 1: dot com DOTU, and ask me anything, literally, ask me
21:30
Speaker 1: anything about boys, and I'm going to do my best
21:32
Speaker 1: to be helpful for you and your parenting, making your
21:35
Speaker 1: family happier. Okay, we need to wrap it up there.
21:36
Speaker 1: You're happy with that one.
21:38
Speaker 2: I think it's a out