Latest / Books4Guys / Why Authors Use Pen Names, AI in Writing, and the Future of Publishing | Tricia Copeland (Maria Jane)

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Why Authors Use Pen Names, AI in Writing, and the Future of Publishing | Tricia Copeland (Maria Jane) · Books4Guys

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into today's episode, I want to thank our executive development partner, Standard Pursuit.
• 0:06
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• 0:16
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• 0:27
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• 0:34
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• 0:43
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• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's get to today's episode.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, and uh Trisha, what's cool is you're actually the first repeat guest on the Books for Guys podcast, which is crazy because we're coming up on, I don't know, I guess we're close to uh a year-ish since the last time you were on here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So congrats on being the first repeat guest of the podcast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so honored.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Chris.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you write so many books, it's like inevitable, you know, you gotta come back and talk more.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So but uh no, it is super cool.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: We were laughing.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first uh first time we talked, I was having like horrible internet issues of gotten that fixed.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is actually, I think, gonna be around the 170th episode now.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a fast and furious year, and then so thankful that you're now going to be a part of it again, uh, and super excited about that.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: But Trish, I was gonna ask a couple questions.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking of just more of like some some just things I was uh wanted to more discuss with you.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, uh you've got tons of books out there in Amazing, but you write, you write from a pen name and you write you write from different names.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So you publish with different names.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was curious to know like per why do you do that personally and why do authors choose to take that approach sometimes?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was just writing an article on this because my dirty, I don't know, you can get so many different opinions from so many different authors.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some people will say, no, never use a pin name, just stick with your brand.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you use a pin name, you have to have another social media account, another website, you know, it's like doubling your work.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then you have authors, and sometimes it's really obvious that you should.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you write YA middle grade or YA, you know, clean fiction, and then you're gonna jump in erotica.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you do not want your YA people jumping in.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, my cat's gonna go by here.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you don't want your YA people just jumping into this other book thinking that it's going to be appropriate.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So in that case, that makes, you know, total sense.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I was jumping sort of from that YA clean fantasy book to a romance series that I mean it's not erotica, but it's closed door romance.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you have sexy scenes and it's it's adult content.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like um, you know, witches and vampires and all these magical characters running around everywhere.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: So it is like heavier subject matter.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So um at first I wrote under Trisha Copeland, and then I thought, you know, this is really different.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't, I I wanted it to stand out, I wanted it to be seen as a different thing.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I created this pin name like halfway through the series, and this is not the way to do it.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I will say that.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then I went back and rebranded the first two under the pin name.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, it was more of an emotional thing, I think.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, there were those reasons.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: There were the genres, right?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: But also the name I picked is kind of a mashup of my sister's name and my grandmother's name.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they were two of my biggest supporters in that romance genre.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it has like an emotional pull for me as well.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then I realized, you know, okay, you don't need to do multiple social media accounts.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can focus on, I can pimp out my romance books when they're releasing.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can talk about my fantasy books, and you can redirect websites.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I can put Maria JaneRomance.com goes directly to my romance site on my TrishaCopeland.com website.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I got that far with technology.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, that makes a lot of sense.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hadn't I hadn't thought about that as far as like if you're gonna write in in one genre lane and then move to the next.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, I mean, that's that's unique.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, not a ton of authors that I've talked to dabble in different genres.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's kind of like one lane, one focus, and they kind of run run that way.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um it's cool to see people uh just challenge themselves to write different style of books and and and do different things.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that would that actually makes perfect sense.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want like, like you said, maybe a certain age group jumping into your other books and and that sort of thing.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I but I've never had never even crossed my mind.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really glad that you explained that.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like, I wonder why, like I knew you wanted to have a different name attached, but I didn't really know the why behind it or why other authors um decided to go that route too.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that makes perfect sense.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was interesting when I was doing this article, I did some research.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Even Stephen King used another name before he got really famous.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like he was like testing the waters with his books and his writing with under a different name.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And you can find I forget what the name was, but um you can go find him under that name too.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And he was trying to see if his how well received his books and his writing would be before he actually like put himself out there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, like hugely successful, amazing writer and everything else.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was interesting, and I mean that was the take that that what I found said.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it I mean, or what they were saying.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe he has done interviews saying, Yes, this is why I did this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I mean, very fan JK Rowling wrote under a different pin name for her fantasy.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in some genres, like you if it's more like a female I mean, if more female reader readers read a certain type of book, like romance, like if you're a male writer, you might want to have some initials on there so you don't immediately appear as a male writer, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you're a female writing in sci-fi, you might want to put initials on there instead of um having, you know, your full name because um a man may more readily pick it up not realizing it's a woman and thinking a woman may not be able to write this as well or something.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, Stephen Keeg's like one of the famous ones to do that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I I think I heard that on like a Joe Rogan podcast.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Someone was talking about him having a pen name, and then they were talking about his books in in some conversation.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool to say that too.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just actually had another female author on, and she wrote about like civil war and westerns, and she changed her name to like initials, JDR, instead of having her name Julie on there.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one of the questions I asked her was, Why did you do this?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Well, I'm kind of writing in more of a male-focused, you know, genre where more men are reading, and I didn't know if they would perceive you know that differently or not pick my book up because of my name Julie writing about civil war.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't thought about that either.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow, like it's never crossed my mind of of thinking that way.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but it makes sense, like if you're trying to maximize, you know, the the attention to the book and not necessarily have your name be I mean, it shouldn't be like that, but you know, it's just how people perceive it and such, unfortunately.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: But it does make sense.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was I'm glad you said that because then it made me think of her doing the same thing.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I think you know, the c the cover is a lot of a lot, and I think what they initially their initial impression of who is writing this book and what the book is looks like or what the book is gonna seem like can make a big difference.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, why hurt your why shoot yourself in the foot in the beginning if you if that's your passion and you love that?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah, no, that makes sense.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tricia, since the last time we've spoken, I've had tons of authors on that we've kind of dabbled in the conversation around AI.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it seems like over the, especially the past year, like it's been here obviously for a few years now, but over the past year, that just more books written about it, more authors talking about it, some of the the positives, some of the negatives.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I know like as you you're a part of groups, you write a lot, are just what's your personal experience with it, especially over the past year?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you do you use it at all to help shape thoughts?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I and I'm thinking of this.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I read a book since the last time we talked, and it was full of those like little, I forgot what they're called, the little AI dash lines.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: The dashes, M dashes, yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like you just know that's Chat GPT or whatever.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, it was a good book, but I was like, how much did you really write?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: And like, how much was it of this?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like, and you know, again, I'm kind of new to this and and knowing more about like publishing and just authors in general and how the whole process works.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And AI, I think, is new for everybody, especially authors and publishers in the space.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I don't know, just what's your thoughts on it?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's your experience been specifically over the last year with it?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really interesting because I'm a late adopter of any technology.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, um, I mean, some of my friends are like, oh yeah, I just asked Chat GPP this or whatever, ask the AI this.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, I I don't want to put myself out there that much, number one.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, like, I like it when it comes up on a Google search and it like summarizes the answer for me.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like that setup.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And really, that's the only the only thing I use AI for is that.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to research something, I want to find something in a city, what it looks like, what the history is, um, you know, those type of things.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing I really use AI for.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because I do like M dashes and I liked them like way before, but now I'm like, oh, I'm not using M dashes anymore because I don't want people to think that I'm using AI.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it was funny because I did, like I said, I did re-release those first two books under the Maria Jane um pen name.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that like in fast, like I did one in April, one in May, and then I had my new release in June.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: So my publicist was like, I'm worried that people are gonna think you're using AI and publishing really fast.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I didn't even think about that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but it I mean, I did say this is a re-release, this is the same book, it's just under a new name.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and obviously you want to like get more readers, and this may be the first time they're seeing the book, but um, I didn't even think about the fact that someone may think that I use AI, but I don't think it's horrible to use AI.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've talked to authors that have used AI to, you know, create a seven-page story.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and they give AI the idea, and AI creates this little plot and then they make the seven pages into a 100-page novel or whatever.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's just like idea seeding more.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, you know, somebody asked me the other day if storytelling was gonna go away.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we have been storytelling before books were even invented.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's going away.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, just it's just so interesting.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um I I use it a lot.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Just I I have a hard time formulating what I want to say.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll say, you know, hey, here's what I'm trying to say, here's the main point.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Can you please help me word this a little bit better?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like so happy that's there.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Even like responding to emails, I'm like, hey, here's what I'm trying to respond back with.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Can you and I'll and I'll tell it, like, no, I needed to say this or change this.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I see the benefits of it, but it's just been and in it's been interesting talking to authors and writers.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had someone on, like, they're totally against it.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, they're like, I hate it, I hate that, you know, you can't, you you have it's not a cheat code, but it's like some authors, I guess, are probably using it to try and put something out there that's not as you know great as sitting down and actually putting in the work.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was just curious to get your opinion on like, do you think do you think like book writing and publishing could almost get a little more saturated because of like how quickly people could throw ideas together and like fast track processes to get books published?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just curious, like as someone who writes so many books and has put so much out there, and like you're so creative and you're you do it yourself, just like your opinion on like some of the positives and negatives to it.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know how it's going to affect how p fast people are.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm sure it already does like I said, that you know, that one author, she cranks out like a book every six months, and because she is using, you know, this tool to kind of fast pace her her idea generation.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if she loves it and like who am I to say that's wrong?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously maybe there are more books that there's more competition.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I, you know, there's always gonna be competition.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I, you know, I kind of just have to stay in my lane.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'm enjoying what I'm doing and it's it's w and people are enjoying reading it, then I can't like pay attention to too much of the noise.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess I mean self-publishing could could create that more competition.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm assuming publishing companies though probably still probably keep a limit just because like you want to sell the book and you can't just keep saturating the market with books and books and books, and then people don't read them or you know, because they're on to the next thing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure there's like an equation behind it that you know that they're kind of figuring out with how many books you can put out there for it to be beneficial and um just interesting thoughts.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Again, the more I'm like, you know, I'm kind of uh a few years into this now and really a year into having conversations and like really understanding book writing and the process.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I have like a personal friend now, he's working on his first book, and I'm like, oh dude, I know a little bit about the process, so it's cool.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that can he'll ask me a question, even like, hey, have you had any authors on that have talked about this?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like trying to figure this out, and I'm like, Yeah, listen to this episode.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: You help your friend.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is very cool.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: But Trisha, this is cool too.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you you not that you bounce around, but like you get ideas and you'll focus on one genre and you'll put a series together, and then obviously another genre and put that series together.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: How do you determine, like over your career, have you seen your interest change in certain things or the way you think?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what influences you to go one direction or the other?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you don't just write one book, it's like a series most of the time.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, how how does that process work for you in like changing things up, especially like, you know, new pen name, new series, you know, how does that work for you?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's usually a passion for my characters that kind of spurs me on.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like my books are very character driven.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to finish this character story and I have to give them, you know, their happily ever after, and I have to like get rid of the bad guys.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um so, and I just finished my fantasy series, my Faye fantasy series last summer with To Be a Faye.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And and that was a big wrap-up for me because it was a crossover series, I guess like 11 books.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, after that, I was like, Oh, I'm I'm so tired.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm never gonna write again.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like one week later, I'm like, wait, I need to do, you know, I have another idea.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at that time I was doing like one romance book, one fantasy book, and I was switching back and forth.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that was good for my readers who wanted the next book in the series, and as well as for me, like even though it's YA fantasy gets really intense for me because you know, there are vampires and witches, and people are in danger of dying at any point.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very heavy to try to have to put my characters back in those situations.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So writing a romance where, you know, the worst thing that's gonna happen is gonna break up with you or something, um, was was good for me, like emotionally and psych psychologically was good.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's funny because I I have kind of idea for another fantasy.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I'm like, oh, they're gonna really go through some hard stuff.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I can write this right now.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just gonna stay in the romance lane for a minute.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of a little bit on my psyche too, like just what is help makes me feel good and happy and and not like focusing on all the hard stuff.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's like what the world is at the time, too.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I forgot how many books were a part of your last series.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I actually pulled it up and I was like, oh my gosh, I forgot how many she had in this, which was another question I was gonna ask you.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: It and I mean you seem to plan again, you were talking about the characters and like getting the story out there, making sure you finish it before you move on to something else.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: When you get an idea for a character and you start thinking of the story and the plot and what you're gonna do with it, do you in advance know this is gonna be a six, seven, ten book series, or do you kind of create maybe like a two to three book?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: And if the idea just if the story needs to continue, you kind of take it one at a time.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you sit down, what's your initial vision for kind of how you see things playing out and how many books you're gonna write?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like the first Kingdom Journals YA fantasy series, it was gonna supposed to be a trilogy because there's three witches or Trinity of Witches.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, you know, each witch is gonna have their own story in the series, but it's gonna continue the overall story of um their quest.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And but then I this one character who I thought was gonna be an evil villain turned out to want something different for himself.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So he got his own book, and then I wrote a prequel because I needed to set, you know, I needed you to know the backstory of why this bad character or the history of the bad character.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote that.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I usually have like the end point in mind.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the beginning and the end.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: But what happens in the middle is is the fun part for me.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's why sometimes, okay, it might be a a four book series, or I think it and with my fantasy, I knew where I wanted to end.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe I forced that a little bit too much, but then and I thought it was gonna be about four books.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: It ended up being five because I it just it wasn't working um the other way.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what I kind of needed my characters to do.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't tell give too much away, but um yeah, so it just it it worked the arc of the series worked out that well, and um, you know, you kind of have to get to that low point before you bring them out.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think I probably did too good of a job of putting them in that low point, but um, they got there happily ever after.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's what counts.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, isn't that so cool though?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of another point I was gonna touch on.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: But like with fiction writing, it leaves you so much space to do things differently.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I've I've had I've done a great so I haven't always been the best like fiction reader, but I've started to learn just like how important it is.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I've spoken with more like sci-fi fantasy authors and just with genres that I've never been interested in before.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've challenged myself to read more of that and kind of like digging a little bit, and I find myself like, oh, I am more interested in this than I thought I was, and especially because like I meet an author and I'm like, oh you know, and kind of figure it out.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I had an author explain, he was like, Man, the importance of reading fiction as a young person, too, just like what that does for your creativity and how that transitions into just critical thinking and how to like solve problems.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're like, you do better in school, like you know, math, engineering, like it just helps you, I don't know, just figure things out a little bit better.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I never thought of that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, I was always like, oh, personal development, you know, nonfiction, something I can like take and apply today.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, there's actually like studies that show fiction can actually do more for you than nonfiction.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but I've the more I've talked with people and just kind of like their process of putting stories together is so cool because they'll kind of say the same thing like, hey, I this was gonna be three, but then like a character kind of took off and I needed to go that route with you know a little bit differently, and I could, like, because again, I create the story, so I can make it whatever I want to make it, and I just find that super cool, especially like since we've last talked, just like how much more I've dug in and dove into reading fiction, but like learning about it and then like asking authors certain questions about it, and just again, as a non-creative person for the most part, I feel like I'm getting more creative just from talking with people like you, and it's like opening up the brain a little bit.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I've just found that super cool, like just kind of a transition for me personally over the last year, and just just I don't know, being more open to reading it and I'm enjoying it more.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think story, I mean, storytelling is storytelling, right?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think even a non-fiction story can be as captivating as a fiction story if it's told in the right way.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've read some nonfiction that read like a novel, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it didn't read like, well, I listened to them too.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes that's a different experience, but it didn't read, like I was completely into the story like it was a fiction story.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it was kind of out there.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It was about a person that was a psychopath.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were telling their own story, and that I mean, it was just so out there that it could have been a fiction story, but then it was, you know, it wasn't nonfiction.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I mean, I think learning from either of those ways, and some people will say, Oh, you can't learn from fiction, but I think you can.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and sometimes it's an easy Easier, softer, safer space, maybe to learn some of those things and kind of explore how you think about them.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: No, and there's actually, I I think it one book that transitioned me into it was a book called Swords of Illumination.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a fiction book, but it was kind of written with a nonfiction type of, I don't know, underlying message on like kind of what they were trying to portray.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm it was the first book I've read like that to where it was, you know, just just finding internal peace, confidence, maximizing your life.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it was written through a fiction lens and characters.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, actually, this is like probably one of the best personal development books I've ever read.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was like entertained with the story, but I was taking points away each chapter.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end, I was like, dang, this was awesome.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, kudos to the author and like the creative behind it to like put that together.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I need more like this.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm finding that happy medium here.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Putting those pairing the psychology and those life lessons.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was so cool.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've never read anything like it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is amazing.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Trisha, with all your your work out there now, and I it sounds like you've got ideas for for new characters, and uh there's gonna be another series, no doubt.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is what you do and what you love.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Of the books you've written, not necessarily asking for a favorite series or favorite book, but like, what's the one series or book that you're most proud of that you've that you've published, whether that be because it challenged you and it was hard to get to the finish line, or it took a path that you didn't expect and you were so happy with expanding, you know, on what your original ideas were.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what what's a series or book that just for you personally are you're most proud of?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the Realm Chronicles series probably when we start out with this young queen, she's 15 years old and she's made monarch, and um she's just I mean, she kind of prep she was prepared.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what she always wanted, but then when it came, she she thought, oh wow, can I really do this?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And she definitely had that teenage, like a little bit of rebellious streak in her, and she had to really grow and learn, and she had to like learn to temper herself and learn and and learn to believe in herself and learn to trust in other people.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there there was so much character development there.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um that um I think that's and it became this amazing five book series that I I would and going into it, never having thought I would write about fairies and write, you know, and I didn't write them in the normal way that uh everybody else writes them, and um it was just fun, and I I just loved her character, and I think that's probably maybe one of my more memorable series, definitely.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's very cool.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: As you get ready, or or how as you're already working on your next, you know, book, how do you go about planning?
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you set timeline expectations for yourself?
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you have timelines you have to hit in certain areas, or do you are you able to kind of let things flow and just I don't know, I'm more asking like what's the duration of of publishing your next book?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: So my deadlines are usually set by when I I sign a contract with my editor that says the book will be in her inbox on whatever day.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I work back from that.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that that just kind of sets a personal deadline for me.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So then I know what I need to do, and that kind of gives me a little bit of um bump in the right direction.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, that and that helps me, but I don't I don't know what everybody else's process is.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's like I think I just signed one for the beginning of October, so I have like three months.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Three months.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think I would like to have some sort of a deadline, or else I could see where you can kind of let things get away.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like a deadline at least kind of helps keep you a little focused and like on track of knowing, like, hey, I should probably sit down and do this and keep things going and and your memory fresh instead of things, you know, again, just going sideways on you.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um Tricia, last question for you.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I've asked you this last time you're on the podcast, but since you're a repeat guest, um, we're just curious to know has there been a book you've read in the past year um since we last met that has that has been a great read?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: You really enjoyed it and would love to share with others?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember what my last answer was.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um if it was a million dunes, I will hype that one again.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a YA, it's a magical real, it's coming of age, so it's a little bit YA, but they're 18, so on their own, they're on the cusp with that becoming an adult.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's by Emily Henry, who most people think of a as of a romance reader, but it's magical realism.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's sort of like uh Romeo and Juliet mashup, um, all about family history, family legacy.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um, the two families aren't supposed to like each other or be involved with each other, and but then it's got this whole magical realism part to it too.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most amazing book I've read.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: I did just read The Wedding People 2, which was also a good book.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I will hype that one now.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the two, my two favorite of the past year.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, I thought of one more question because as we jump off here, I was gonna say, you know, like Trisha, Mary Jane, is there a max number of pin names an author can have?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are there any authors out there who have like 10 pin names or 10.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely know authors that have three or four because they like write erotic romance and they write Laye and then they write a horror or something like that.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely know ones with at least three.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think at some point it'll just like I don't know how you would keep up with all that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't sleep.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was just laughing.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what if what if we do like a yearly podcast, but you have a different pin name every year?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So like when you when you join, it'll be like Trisha, Mary Jane, Jamie, Lauren.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it'll just keep going down the list until we run out of screen.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think two is gonna be my max because I could probably jump off to into any genre from these two.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Trisha, it's been so great catching up with you.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I uh a lot of cool things have happened over the past year, and and I'm sure we'll do this again, especially as you have more work out there.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love having you on.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love having you share what you're working on and just the passion projects.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously the world's changing, you know, getting to talk more about AI and just see where that where that leads um and what what happens in that space.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: But uh no, excited to to see what else you continue to put out there, and all we I'll be looking forward to.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks so much.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, congratulations.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Books for guys is just taking off everywhere.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's so exciting to see.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate your support, and uh look forward to talking soon.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds good.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.