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Jenea Robinson: Endometriosis, Early Menopause & Learning to Slow Down · Yarrow of Tomorrow

• 0:00
  Jenea Robinson: But what I wish I knew then was that I should do a deep dive into what endometriosis is and that it is something that won't fully go away. But there were things I could have done then that could have prevented what ended up happening in 2024 was when I had a total hysterectomy before 40. No children and had a hysterectomy.
• 0:25
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: This episode is brought to you by our presenting sponsor, Learn to Swim Collective.
• 0:31
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Jenea Robinson is Vice President of Communications at the Tourism Engine Visit Philadelphia. She's also the founder of Marsh + Mane, Philadelphia's first black-owned beauty supply store catering to natural hair products. She's widely beloved for the safe space she created, but behind all of that public work was a private health battle that reshaped her life before 40 and that tested her mind and her body in ways that few people ever saw. Here's our conversation.
• 1:02
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Well, thank you for accepting this invitation to, I mean, I really think about maybe even more so as I get older about how I value time differently. You know, I think 10 years ago, I was just like, "What's up with you? I'll say yes, I'll go, sure." And now I'm like, I want it really judicious. Like, I want things that are like mutually beneficial. I want things that are like not necessarily transactional by way of benefit, but by way of like richness, you know? So I thank you for offering up your time and being here. Jenea Robinson Thank you for thinking of me.
• 1:38
  Jenea Robinson: I'm happy to be here.
• 1:39
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yeah, I'm really excited. I was thinking in preparation for my time with you today about when I first met you. And I think, I know it had to be, it was after your first Visit Philly stint, it was when Marsh + Mane was already live, I met you on a Zoom call. This is my first like, I remember being on a Zoom call in like, I don't know, girl, like 2020. Okay. 2021, you know, in that era of human existence and your name popped up and I was like, "Oh, this is cool." It was like a round table on black business ownership. Yes, I remember.
• 2:10
  Jenea Robinson: There were lots of those in 2020.
• 2:12
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Girl, there were a lot of them. There were a lot of them. And it's really interesting to put that in perspective as to the now when there are like none of them. But there were a lot of them and that's why I'm meeting you. And then being in the shop and that era. So for people who have not yet heard of Marsh + Mane, they live maybe outside of Philly. They're not in Connecticut where you're from. What is the story of what Marsh + Mane was to you? What was Marsh + Mane?
• 2:40
  Jenea Robinson: Marsh + Mane is a beauty experience. I had a brick and mortar space. I wanted to create the beauty supply store that I wanted to shop in. I loved a vibe, right? I wanted to walk into a store. I wanted it to be beautiful. But I spent so much time in beauty supply stores because as I was transitioning from having a relaxer like many of us, spending many hours on YouTube, I was a product junkie. But the experience in the beauty supply store was not a fun one. No, it's not a warm space. It wasn't a warm space. And I always wanted to create a space that I wanted to shop in where you could stay and linger and it smelled good and it was beautiful and you could talk to people and you could let your hair down. Literally, people walked in and took their wigs off and showed me their scalp. And I believe it. And they needed to. So it was a beautiful gathering space here in Philadelphia. And I had always made products. I'd always made hair conditioners and body butters and things like that. So I eventually started selling those in the store. I closed the brick and mortar in twenty twenty two. Continue to sell the things that I make online and maybe one day we'll bring that gathering space back. But it was beautiful. It was a beautiful time.
• 3:57
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: It was a beautiful time. And I think about even now and looking back on it, how particularly for black women, there is there's so much negative conditioning around our relationship with our hair, whether it's permed or other, you know, like naturally straight or if it's recovering from whatever we've done to it. And the therapeutic nature of being able to be in an environment that you could be all that you could bring all of it. You know, you could bring the shame, the sadness, the regret about your hair, the frustration, the ignorance, you know, like I don't know what to do. All of that is that's such a the psychological safety of what Marsh + Mane as a physical space offered. It was bar none safe haven bar
• 4:43
  Jenea Robinson: none all types of women, even for women who were not black but had adopted black children. That part. That was not an audience I expected to have. And seeing some of their fear and their concerns and not feeling like they had a safe space to ask questions that they ask these questions online. People might cancel them or call an ignorant or say, why don't you go ask the child's mother-in-law? I mean, a grandmother or something like that. They just
• 5:15
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: people who just needed support. They just need to support. Just need a safe space to ask the question that, you know, someone might think that they would know. That was. And the products were lovely. Are in the present. Shout out to marshandmane.com. Thank you.
• 5:29
  Jenea Robinson: That's the site. That's the site.
• 5:31
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: They were remarkable, too. And I think about the last day that I was in Marsh + Mane, which was the last day. I think it was your very last day with that first brick and mortar experience and and understanding uniquely what it meant to keep a shop and not yet knowing for myself what it would mean to close a shop. Yes. But those are those are some that's a hard it's hard for me. It was a hard ending. How was that for you?
• 6:00
  Jenea Robinson: It was very hard. And it was one of those experiences, at least for me, I'm a person who often will go through things, experience things. And it's not until after the thing is done that I can look back on it and say, like, wow, I felt this way or went through this thing. And it was absolutely a mourning period. I had a random customer. I think maybe she was an online customer. She DMed me after the store closed and she said, I saw that the store closed and I just want you to take the time to mourn.
• 6:34
  Jenea Robinson: And I was like, wow, I was like, I am mourning. I didn't know what I was feeling. You this becomes your baby. Mm hmm. It is your life. You pour so much of your energy into it. Your family and friends pour that energy into it.
• 6:48
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: They're always being harassed to participate. To participate, to support or to listen to my
• 6:53
  Jenea Robinson: ideas
• 6:55
  Jenea Robinson: and to have to close it. Yeah. But still have peace with my decision to close it. No, 1000 percent. Right. It was a mourning period. Yeah. And it affected me like from head to toes.
• 7:06
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: What did you do to to get through that? You know, like I look back on some of the things I did when I closed Grant Blvd and when I closed Blk Ivy Thrift about like being alone. I took some time to just be by myself. I went away, found a retreat center. I was went there, I mean, several times. What was that for you? You did the healthy thing.
• 7:25
  Jenea Robinson: I probably should have done that. I threw myself right back into work. OK. I had always had a career in PR and I was freelancing the entire time I had the store. Yeah. So as I was winding down, I took on more and more clients. OK. Next thing I know, I'm running like a full time consultancy. Firm. Yeah. And I am traveling for clients. I am doing all types of work.
• 7:50
  Jenea Robinson: And then started to burn myself out on the other end. That's true. And it wasn't until I slowed that part of the work down. And then I was like, you know what? I need to heal from this thing. I have PTSD from running a business.
• 8:03
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: No, it really does do that. I really does that for about the next, I would say for the full year, almost after I closed them, I would someone would say, what was that like? And then I would recall it, recant it and I can literally feel my blood pressure in my body rising just from the memory of all that I was responsible for. Yes. So that that post-traumatic stress is a very, very you say what say your body remembers your body keeps the score. Your body keeps the score.
• 8:30
  Jenea Robinson: Body keeps the score. Which is a book I actually just downloaded.
• 8:32
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I'm reading the body keeps score. Yeah, I'm ready. But I'm familiar with the title.
• 8:37
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: How do you think how are you finding it? I haven't started. OK, OK, OK. So we may or may not make it to the show notes.
• 8:43
  Jenea Robinson: Only be a shout out to the public library. Yeah. Yeah. I just got it. So I have to start reading it. But I had a delayed reaction to mourning and closing the store. Yeah. And a delayed reaction to all of the stress and everything that I was going through, even though I loved every minute of it. I mean, none of it was fake. No, no, no, no. Yeah, no. It was real joy. It was real joy.
• 9:10
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Joy.
• 9:10
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah, joy. But in the middle of.
• 9:14
  Jenea Robinson: Fulfilling your dream, it comes with a lot of stress, a lot of responsibility, especially when you're the first in your circle, the first in your family and then or in the neighborhood in the neighborhood.
• 9:27
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. What was beautiful about that time, there were so many of us that were getting our start at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. You were one of them. Yeah. There were a number of us. There are a number of us. Jeannine from Harriett's. Yep. There were a number of us.
• 9:39
  Jenea Robinson: And so I did feel like we had a support system because we opened and then the world went to shit. I know. So it
• 9:48
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: was an interesting time. It was quite a time. Yeah. It was quite a time. And you know, I think about what that chapter meant for you as a business owner. And then I also think about that when we're running businesses, we're still full people, that we're still women, that we're still carrying other things in our minds, in our bodies outside of the burden and the beauties of being the owner. So I want to move out to this way of letting all of us see you as a person beyond what we experience through that venture. So when I think about and what I'm learning about you and those other struggles, what has that been like for you? Like when people were discovering you away from that identity, what are the other things that you've had to navigate away from just business that has been, you know, just exhausting?
• 10:44
  Jenea Robinson: Wow. And that's such a loaded question because there's so many things and good and bad. Yeah. During that time, on the good side, I got engaged and married. Both of them. Bam. Yeah. Engaged and married. Congratulations. Thank you. We got engaged in 2020
• 11:01
  Jenea Robinson: while all this was happening. And that was a beautiful experience to have. Like when the world was, everyone was so uncertain
• 11:12
  Jenea Robinson: and you're a hold up with somebody. Yeah. And to be able to form that bond and we'll solidify the bond that we already had. We were already together for so long.
• 11:20
  Jenea Robinson: But it confirmed something about our relationship. We were like, you know what, this is it's time to do this. Yeah.
• 11:28
  Jenea Robinson: But going through that experience, going through an engagement and then planning a wedding and all of those things while having that business, that was
• 11:39
  Jenea Robinson: that was very difficult. Something else that I always say I have like wedding planning PTSD.
• 11:43
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: So many different types of PTSD. Girl, I'm glad you got the book, girl. I'm glad you got the book.
• 11:47
  Jenea Robinson: Got the book.
• 11:49
  Jenea Robinson: But then in my body, right. I had always suffered with fibroids,
• 11:58
  Jenea Robinson: ovarian cysts and then endometriosis. So I always say I had the trifecta, had the holy trinity of uterine ovary problems. Had all three and had been dealing with them, you know, for a long time. OK.
• 12:12
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Nothing ever stopped. When did they first when did that first crop up?
• 12:15
  Jenea Robinson: I well, I was diagnosed in my like mid 20s, maybe 25 or 26 when I found out that I had the fibroids. OK.
• 12:27
  Jenea Robinson: And then a little later when they told me very casually that I had endometriosis, I actually don't think they ever told me I had endometriosis. They said you have endometrial cysts on your ovaries. OK.
• 12:39
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: And so now you have to educate me. Yeah. And maybe all of us. Which is why I was one of the reasons I was so excited to have you here is because I think that, you know, there's something to be said about and we come such a long way even since 2020 with how we talk about hair and the experience of having textured hair. And then there's this other gap of many of us not really having public access to what is actually a pretty common and really challenging to navigate reality, which is endometriosis and cysts and fibroids. Yeah. So help me understand, help us understand what that means. Yes.
• 13:13
  Jenea Robinson: So let's start with the fibroids. OK. People are familiar with fibroids. OK. They know what they are. They've at least heard of what they are. They're very common in black women. Like as a young black woman growing up, I heard about them. My aunts had them. My mom had them. Everyone had them at some point. OK. But a fibroid is a non-cancerous growth that grows inside or on the outside of your uterus. OK. The cause of them.
• 13:41
  Jenea Robinson: No one really knows what the exact cause of these growths are. And many women have them. I think I don't know the exact number, but it's a pretty high number. But if they start to cause you problems, that's when you know that they are there. Many people can have them and not even know that they're in there. OK. OK. But when they start to cause problems in those problems are often really heavy bleeding during your cycle. OK. Pain.
• 14:08
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Is that how it manifested for you?
• 14:09
  Jenea Robinson: It was for me. It was the super heavy cycles. OK. So I went from hardly ever having a period when I was younger. OK. To I remember in college
• 14:21
  Jenea Robinson: and I didn't get my period often. Yeah. But I thought this was a great thing. Yeah. You were like, I'm winning. I didn't think this was a problem. Mm hmm. I'm like, this is amazing. I was standing in line at CV in CVS on Georgia Ave in D.C. I went to Howard. Shout out to HU.
• 14:37
  Jenea Robinson: I'm standing in line and then I started like my mouth started watering. I got really hot. And then I almost like I collapsed. Right.
• 14:43
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Wow.
• 14:44
  Jenea Robinson: On the floor in the CVS. And I was like, what is happening? Yeah. Should have been a red flag right then, but it wasn't. Yeah. I was like, OK, I'm just having a bad reaction to something.
• 14:56
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. Cycle. OK. OK. Because you're taught that period should be painful when that's really not true. If they're really painful, you have a problem.
• 15:06
  Jenea Robinson: And then it just got worse.
• 15:07
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I'm glad you said that. Just that that's that one kind of
• 15:11
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: distillation. But if if there's pain, that that is an indicator. If there's severe, persistent pain, severe pain indicator of a problem. I think a lot of us need to hear that because we've been conditioned to one to dismiss our own pain. Right. To just accept to just surrender and live with pain.
• 15:27
  Jenea Robinson: And to accept it as a normal part of being a woman. Yeah. Right. You have painful periods. It's a part of it. Yeah. And there's some discomfort and pain associated with it.
• 15:37
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: But not passing out.
• 15:38
  Jenea Robinson: Not passing out. No. Not throwing up. Yeah. Not being in so much pain that you can't get out the bed. Not bleeding so much that you can't leave the house. Right. You can't leave the house. And then all of those things started to happen. They got worse and worse and worse. And then in 2018, I had my first surgery. OK. OK.
• 15:59
  Jenea Robinson: And.
• 16:02
  Jenea Robinson: In hindsight, I wish that my doctor, that doctor I had then had explained to me what having endometriosis was. I knew I had fibroids. OK. I go in for the preop appointment and they're like, OK, we're going to remove these fibroids and we're going to remove these endometriosis. And but he said it so casually. I was like endometriosis. I was like, I think I've heard that word before. Endometriosis. Isn't that a thing? I was like, do I have it? And he was like, yeah, you have it. I was like, that's a major diagnosis. Yeah. Also didn't know then how serious endometriosis was,
• 16:39
  Jenea Robinson: because he said we're going to do the surgery. He said we're going to remove those cysts. We're going to remove the fibroids and. You're going to be good. OK. That's the end of it. OK. OK. Got my surgery in 2018.
• 16:51
  Jenea Robinson: February of 2018, all my fibroids have grew back by October. Girl, that's crazy.
• 16:58
  Jenea Robinson: Girl, that is crazy. Yep.
• 17:01
  Jenea Robinson: By October, which is common that they that they do grow back. That is it's common. But they say sometimes you have a longer window. It's different for every woman.
• 17:13
  Jenea Robinson: And they came back so fast. But what I wish I knew then was that I should do a deep dive into what endometriosis is. OK. And that it is something that won't fully go away. But there were things I could have done then that could have prevented what ended up happening in 2024 was when I had a total hysterectomy.
• 17:36
  Jenea Robinson: Before 40, no children and had hysterectomy.
• 17:42
  Jenea Robinson: But I look back to the first surgery
• 17:47
  Jenea Robinson: and I often think, like, why didn't they sit me down and explain what endometriosis was? It's a good possibility. It's because they he didn't know.
• 17:57
  Jenea Robinson: Because doctors aren't taught a lot about it.
• 18:01
  Jenea Robinson: Now you see a lot more, a lot more physicians and doctors are educating themselves on it and they're learning more about it. There's a lot more people talking about it. They're studying it more. They're
• 18:13
  Jenea Robinson: developing medications. I don't think there had been a medication for it. There is one on the market, but all it does is put you into menopause temporarily. That's the solution.
• 18:26
  Jenea Robinson: So
• 18:28
  Jenea Robinson: all of this was happening with my body
• 18:32
  Jenea Robinson: while I was finishing school, building a career and then building a business and then trying to build a family and building a family.
• 18:41
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• 19:25
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: You know, I think about that. I mean, there's so many things I am I'm trying to like, just make sense of. One of them is
• 19:34
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: from your perspective, what you've had to accept in this moment of a diagnosis that no one really could give you language for soon enough and that you have to live with, you know, like what that means for you and your quality of life on this side of that reality. The reality of OK, yes, I have endometriosis present tense and I have had a hysterectomy, which means means X, X, you know, X, Y, Z. What is that? What is that like? What is what has this been in terms of like what you've had to accept?
• 20:09
  Jenea Robinson: So once I accept it, that I have this condition outside of the fibroids. Again, the fibroids are they're more than annoying. You know, they're a nuisance. They cause disruption, but people get them removed and you're usually OK. You take them out. They go away. If you maybe sometimes have children, that's kind of it. It's crazy how that's one of the solutions, right? They're like to get rid of it. Oh, wow. Get pregnant. Oh, OK. Have a baby. OK. So when I had that first surgery, you know, I'm in my 20s. I'm like, I don't.
• 20:41
  Jenea Robinson: No, if I want to have kids or not, I definitely don't want them now. So
• 20:46
  Jenea Robinson: that was the whole thing. But
• 20:49
  Jenea Robinson: with endometriosis, then I went I spiral. That's when I spiraled. I was vegetarian for a while. I was vegan for a while. Then I was trying this herbal supplement and doing all this research into different teas and potions and concoctions and all the things.
• 21:09
  Jenea Robinson: And nothing worked for me. I'm not saying that I don't think there are things out there that work because I believe that there are things that work and have helped other people. You haven't discovered your thing. I didn't discover it.
• 21:24
  Jenea Robinson: And then going back to that doctor in,
• 21:27
  Jenea Robinson: you know, 2016, 2017.
• 21:31
  Jenea Robinson: At that point, I was already stage four. I had stage four endo.
• 21:35
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: And now we got it. Yeah, now we got to back up. I'm like flag on the play. I thought it was just like a yes or no, like a black or a white.
• 21:41
  Jenea Robinson: OK, OK. Endometriosis behaves a lot like cancer. OK. But this is something that people are now just learning and identifying and naming. It's not cancer, but it behaves very similar. So it's like rapid cell growth. Yeah, it's rapid cell growth. It creates its own estrogen. It's like a monster. Wow. So then I was already stage four. So how many stages are there for? OK, so stage four. Yeah, OK. So stage four is like this is the worst and it will just get worse. It's probably not going to improve. But there was some point when it was stage one. I don't know when that was. Right. Probably when I passed out on the floor in CVS. Yeah, I probably already had it. Yeah.
• 22:25
  Jenea Robinson: And some of these things that I learned about later on, like nutrition and some different supplements, those things could have helped earlier on, maybe earlier on, but I was already too far gone. So
• 22:39
  Jenea Robinson: I got to a point where
• 22:42
  Jenea Robinson: hysterectomy was the only option.
• 22:45
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: What is it like to move through the world or even looking back to 2024 and to know that people would see you and they might presume your stage of life and you and to privately hold that?
• 23:00
  Jenea Robinson: That was
• 23:03
  Jenea Robinson: that's been one of the more difficult things for me. And that was one of the reasons why I did not want to
• 23:11
  Jenea Robinson: have my ovaries removed. So then let me back up
• 23:15
  Jenea Robinson: even even further. Hysterectomy was presented to me when I was twenty five or twenty six.
• 23:21
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I mean, as an option on the table. Right. At twenty five.
• 23:25
  Jenea Robinson: And the same doctor who I refer I won't name his name, but the same one who did that first surgery. He did say to me then, even though he didn't explain to me what endometriosis was and that I had this thing, he said, you're going to probably need a hysterectomy one day. And I didn't believe that because you hear that these white male doctors, all they want to do is make black women have hysterectomies. So I really dismissed him. I didn't even take it into consideration that maybe there's something else going on here. Right. I didn't even listen to him. So I could have got it done then.
• 24:02
  Jenea Robinson: Chose not to take you just to keep the options open. Just because I didn't want them to take a major organ that didn't need to be taken. And I didn't know if I wanted to have kids or not.
• 24:13
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Part of my I'm going to I'm going to reveal my ignorance. Yeah. What is removed with a hysterectomy?
• 24:17
  Jenea Robinson: So there's different types. So a partial did not know that your uterus, your fallopian tubes and your cervix. That's the partial.
• 24:27
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yes, that is that. Wow. OK.
• 24:31
  Jenea Robinson: All right. I think the cervix is could be left. OK. And some instances, but I think it's the uterus and the fallopian tubes. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.
• 24:41
  Jenea Robinson: Then the last piece are your ovaries.
• 24:46
  Jenea Robinson: So when we finally decided that I was going to get a hysterectomy, we were very clear that we were only taking uterus, fallopian tubes and the cervix, because the last thing I wanted was to be put into menopause before the natural age of menopause.
• 25:01
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Why? In my 30s. But what was your fear about menopause?
• 25:03
  Jenea Robinson: I didn't want to feel old. OK. OK. I didn't want to feel old. I didn't want to look old.
• 25:07
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I know. We like this. Maybe what's mean I'm going to be dry. Yeah, like skin dry, hair dry, everything's brutal. Yeah, everything dry, girl. Everything dry.
• 25:17
  Jenea Robinson: Not everything. I'm like, I was a newlywed. Right. Like what is and that was the last thing that I wanted. Right. Was to be put into early menopause
• 25:25
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: because in that's women, you know, we're. We don't know anything about menopause. And what we do know is all negative for the most part.
• 25:31
  Jenea Robinson: It's a lot of negative information out there. But we want to preserve our youth as long as we can. Seriously, seriously.
• 25:38
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I don't want anything that's going to be better. Yeah. And it's about being desirable, you know, like our own notions of desirability and menopause. I think challenges our level of like fertility as a construct, but also like being wanted, being, you know, desired.
• 25:55
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. And so we had a game plan and my doctor agreed like, OK, we're not going to take the ovaries. We don't have to. You know, we should be able to take the uterus, get all of the endo out.
• 26:09
  Jenea Robinson: You should be good.
• 26:11
  Jenea Robinson: All right. So we go into that surgery.
• 26:14
  Jenea Robinson: Now, endo spreads endometriosis looks like chocolate in your
• 26:20
  Jenea Robinson: side, your body, like the lesions. And it's sticky and it fuses organs together. So my endo had spread to my diaphragm. I mean, and it was also on my bowels. So it had fused my uterus to my bowels. OK, so they so I my biggest fear was that I was going to wake up with one of those bags. Right. Kalak, Kalak, Kalani,
• 26:44
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Kalani. I don't know what it's no, no. Yes, I don't know. But that one. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
• 26:50
  Jenea Robinson: Because they said that was a possibility. They said now it's very slim. Yeah. And if it happens, we could it'll be reversed. But that was my biggest fear. So, you know, if you've ever had any kind of surgery, you know, when you're going under whatever you're thinking about, just like, dear God, please, please. And then when I finally wake up, you know, I'm coming to in the first thing, like, is it like, do I have a bag? It's like the first thing out of my mouth.
• 27:13
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Your your subconscious mind was holding it. Yeah. First thing she said. Wow. No, baby.
• 27:18
  Jenea Robinson: I was like, OK, go back to sleep. I'm like, OK, great. Yeah. Yeah. But then I started asking some other questions and they were moving around me a little weird.
• 27:27
  Jenea Robinson: I'm like, so what was going on with the? Because there was a possibility that one of my ovaries could not be saved. We did talk about that before. And she was like, do I have permission to remove this one if we can't? But you'll still have your other one. So you'll be good. You won't be in menopause.
• 27:41
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Technically, you won't be in menopause.
• 27:42
  Jenea Robinson: I just don't want to be in menopause. Yeah. So cool. So that's her asking about that. Like, oh, did you have to take the one? And then the nurse said first, she was like, no. And again, that she was like, oh, I don't know. And she's like, let's wait for the doctor. And then the doctor comes and then they roll me up. And then I'm asking her. She won't give me answers. And she's like, wait, she's all your husband's on his way. Let's wait till he gets. I'm like, why?
• 28:05
  Jenea Robinson: I'm like, what is going on?
• 28:08
  Jenea Robinson: So then my husband gets in, the doctor gets in, and they tell me we had to remove both of your ovaries.
• 28:15
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: What was your initial? Oh, my. It.
• 28:21
  Jenea Robinson: That was probably the hardest news that I have heard.
• 28:26
  Jenea Robinson: To date at that time,
• 28:28
  Jenea Robinson: because it was the last thing that I wanted. And even though I had I was pretty certain I didn't want to have children or it was OK with it, we did talk about.
• 28:40
  Jenea Robinson: Maybe I can save some eggs just in case. And I would do that after the surgery.
• 28:49
  Jenea Robinson: And then having that option taken away from me.
• 28:55
  Jenea Robinson: Was there are no words to describe it.
• 29:02
  Jenea Robinson: Because I knew I was going to be thrust into the stage of life that I was not ready to be in. Yeah.
• 29:10
  Jenea Robinson: I think I just turned thirty nine or was about to turn thirty nine.
• 29:14
  Jenea Robinson: I wouldn't naturally be entering menopause until later in my fifties. I wasn't even in perimenopause. I probably wouldn't be in perimenopause now.
• 29:23
  Jenea Robinson: And all the things that come with menopause literally started.
• 29:30
  Jenea Robinson: Overnight. That that is that's so much. It was that's so much. And it's.
• 29:39
  Jenea Robinson: Because when you naturally go through it, it comes on in waves. Maybe one day you're like, oh, you know, I'm hot or my skin's a little dry. It's coming in, you know, it's waves of it, right? And.
• 29:55
  Jenea Robinson: When they remove your ovaries, all of the estrogen that you produce, it is gone instantly. So when you naturally go through menopause, your ovaries are just slowly,
• 30:06
  Jenea Robinson: you know, shutting down and not producing estrogen. And that can take years. You can be in that phase of menopause into your 60s for some women, right?
• 30:15
  Jenea Robinson: So.
• 30:17
  Jenea Robinson: This happened overnight.
• 30:21
  Jenea Robinson: So the wave of it, the the pressure.
• 30:25
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Tsunami versus like a like a like a drizzle, you know, it's just everything all at once.
• 30:31
  Jenea Robinson: All at once. And I had also just accepted the vice president position at Visit Philly right before I went on medical leave.
• 30:42
  Jenea Robinson: And I bring that up because
• 30:46
  Jenea Robinson: the symptom that hit me the hardest and the fastest was the brain fog. Oh, you hear women talk about brain fog. Yeah.
• 30:56
  Jenea Robinson: But it's one thing when it comes on gradually, right? Versus going to sleep, waking up and like, oh, I feel dumb. That's the best way to describe it. I was like, I feel stupid.
• 31:05
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I haven't heard that ever described that way.
• 31:07
  Jenea Robinson: It's not like, oh, I can't remember. I can remember. Like I feel stupid because last week I knew this thing. I could recall this information. Yeah. I could function at this capacity. Right.
• 31:22
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: And that's why you hired me. Yes. Why? And so now it's like, I don't know that I can deliver on what I told you. I'm going to come back.
• 31:29
  Jenea Robinson: I'm not the same. I'm not the same. And it was instant. Right. And it was so fast and.
• 31:36
  Jenea Robinson: That was the hardest part
• 31:39
  Jenea Robinson: for me physically. Yes, hot flashes also started immediately. Did you get on HRT, hormone replacement therapy? I've recently taken myself off of it. OK, OK. That's that is another. We're going to test this out and I'm going to see how I feel without it. Yeah, without it. How did you feel with it? Great. Right. So as soon as you get on it. Wonderful. No hot flashes, no brain fog. Right. So sleeping OK. Yeah, no sleep disturbances. My skin was a nasty anymore. I look a little dewy. Yeah. Like, yeah, hormonal replacement therapy is wonderful. If you need it, I understand the concerns people have with it. But because I no longer had ovaries, I wasn't producing anything. Right. You needed the help. So I needed it because I learned people may not know this, but I didn't know you need women need ovaries, not just for your reproductive health. You need it for your bones or your heart. I did not know that your mental health.
• 32:39
  Jenea Robinson: You need it for just basic function in your body. It's a major hormone center. It is. So that's why they say when you when you lose your hormones, you're losing some of that youthfulness. But it does it ages your body. So that's not what I'm worried about. I don't want to have brittle bones.
• 32:56
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Right. You don't want to have a rapid, more rapid decay because your body is not able to right produce what it needs to just function. Right. That's that is a that to me when in hearing that, if that was my experience, the word that comes up again is this notion of like mourning, you know, of mourning. Do you feel that?
• 33:16
  Jenea Robinson: Yes. So now I'm in another mourning period, right?
• 33:22
  Jenea Robinson: Just acknowledging that I needed to mourn closing this business.
• 33:27
  Jenea Robinson: Also mourning.
• 33:30
  Jenea Robinson: Humans and people in my life that I had lost mourning.
• 33:36
  Jenea Robinson: A major shift in my family dynamic in 2018 during this time, another big shift happened. All these things happened at the same time. And I'm learning a lot about mourning.
• 33:51
  Jenea Robinson: Not in the traditional sense. I think we only think of it as associated with losing people, but losing people, places and things and possibilities and losing organs, like losing a piece of your body that a part of your body that has been with you forever. And
• 34:14
  Jenea Robinson: how do I now navigate this on top of all the other things?
• 34:19
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: What are you learning about mourning?
• 34:22
  Jenea Robinson: I'm learning that it
• 34:26
  Jenea Robinson: is not linear.
• 34:29
  Jenea Robinson: It's not.
• 34:30
  Jenea Robinson: It comes. It goes. It changes.
• 34:37
  Jenea Robinson: I don't know if you're ever done mourning. I think you reach acceptance and you learn how to navigate your new normal.
• 34:50
  Jenea Robinson: But there will always be a sense of loss will be with me. I think even when I hit 55 years old, right? And then say now I'm at the age where
• 35:00
  Jenea Robinson: all my peers are catching up.
• 35:03
  Jenea Robinson: I still will mourn the time that I lost.
• 35:08
  Jenea Robinson: I have peace about it.
• 35:11
  Jenea Robinson: I'm speaking to the future existence at 55. I will hope to say I have peace about it. That's true.
• 35:19
  Jenea Robinson: But it doesn't change that that time was taken from me. And I do feel like it was taken from me because that was not the plan. And
• 35:29
  Jenea Robinson: the that surgeon, wonderful black woman who specializes in endometriosis. I know she did everything. Yes, she did everything to try. Even she was almost in tears when she told me, she said, I know this is not what you wanted. This four hour surgery ended up taking way longer because they were trying really hard to save as much as they could. As much as they could. And it couldn't because the endo was really bad when they got in. She's like, it was bad. We knew it was bad, but it was really bad.
• 35:57
  Jenea Robinson: So I believe they did everything they could. I don't
• 36:01
  Jenea Robinson: blame the her. I don't blame the system in this case. In this instance, I do not.
• 36:10
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: But the loss is still real. The loss is still very real. I really appreciated how you framed it as like the thing I hadn't thought about, which is like the loss of the organs, like the loss of the physical part of you that cannot be recovered. But that is you just you feel it, you know, you just feel you feel it. I would imagine you somehow, even if no one else knows.
• 36:31
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. But they say when people go to war and they get a leg blown off or something, they feel that leg for a while. So I think I went through a little bit of that. And then navigating the world like now I have
• 36:43
  Jenea Robinson: my fan, my electric fan. I remember the first time I was out with my fan. Everyone has these fans now, too. I mean, now I don't think it's tied as much to being an older woman. Right.
• 36:54
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Outing yourself as being an older woman. Yeah, that's what it does. You know, that's what it used to do. I think it used to like signal your age in a way that we wanted to keep hidden, particularly as black women. Yeah. Even if you look so much younger.
• 37:08
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: That privilege of that age ambiguity, it's like it gives you the giveaway.
• 37:12
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. So my husband and I were out
• 37:15
  Jenea Robinson: in Old City, art galleries or something, and I had the fan. It wasn't summertime, but I don't think it was winter either. And this is before I started the HRT. So I had the fan and this woman says to me, she's like, what are you doing with a fan? You don't look old enough to have a fan.
• 37:35
  Jenea Robinson: Triggering her exact words. Yeah. Yeah.
• 37:37
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I was like, I'm not. I'm not old enough to need a fan.
• 37:40
  Jenea Robinson: And here we are. Actually, I know, but I I do. Mm hmm. I do. I need this fan. I need this fan. So.
• 37:50
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah, it was one of those moments I didn't think anyone would say anything or notice, but other women did. You know, definitely it's not not a man thing. Other women, she was like, you don't look old enough to need a fan.
• 38:01
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yeah. And you were like, oh, if you only knew.
• 38:08
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• 39:11
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: What have you learned about yourself?
• 39:14
  Jenea Robinson: Oh, gosh,
• 39:17
  Jenea Robinson: I've learned that I need to process.
• 39:21
  Jenea Robinson: Everything. I don't do that well. Historically, I haven't done it well. I am go, go, go. I'm in the moment. I'm doing the thing. I'm doing the project. I'm doing the work. I'm building the business. And I don't think I I don't do a good job at being present and accepting it.
• 39:42
  Jenea Robinson: And then even with mourning and loss and all of those things, I am learning to take that time to move slower,
• 39:52
  Jenea Robinson: to be still when I need to be still. And I say that I'm learning because I'm still learning it. I don't I'm better.
• 40:01
  Jenea Robinson: I haven't mastered it, you know, but I'm much better. So I'm learning that.
• 40:07
  Jenea Robinson: And I'm learning that a lot about regulating your nervous system. And I've been reading a lot about mitochondrial health and
• 40:17
  Jenea Robinson: how these things play into your cells and how it how they affect disease
• 40:26
  Jenea Robinson: and how stress affects disease. So even though I always had this illness, I do think the time that I had the business probably sped up some things. Just from the stress load, from the stress, just from the stress, that internal stress that you are carrying that you don't even realize you have. Yeah.
• 40:46
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I worry about that even with my own daughter. You know, that that even though I try to encourage her, like, that was stressful or that seems like that would be really stressful. I think there's another part of our wider culture that dismisses the reality of stress. And so we don't even we're not even processing
• 41:04
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: what we're and what we're experiencing in a way that it does two things. Right. It is a coping mechanism, I think, to help us keep going. But it is an internalized dehumanization, both as like a survival mechanism. But also, interestingly, it's like it's a self-defeating one, you know, and thinking about the ways in which, you know, it shows up in our gastrointestinal and it shows up in our sleep disturbances, it shows up in our our moodiness, you know, and everything. We don't we're not even reading how our responses day to day are actually in line with an unacknowledged stress burden. Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:42
  Jenea Robinson: And how you can have a stress event happen. And those the effect of that stress event, you won't see it until maybe a year later or a few years later. So I always say 2018 was my trigger year. Yeah, because when you do the math, 2018, 19, 2021, massive. Twenty four. That's when everything hit the fan for me.
• 42:04
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: That's like stage one, stage two, stage two, you know, like you're just the stress is mounting and and all the symptoms are quietly collecting themselves. The symptoms are collecting themselves. And in your case, it was in those endometrial cells. Yes, like exploding.
• 42:21
  Jenea Robinson: And spreading. Yeah. And growing and reproducing. And
• 42:29
  Jenea Robinson: and then now, OK, so you have the surgery. Hysterectomy is not a cure
• 42:33
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: for endometriosis. Did not know that. You think it's like it's like the magic wipe the slate clean.
• 42:39
  Jenea Robinson: OK, it's not. And,
• 42:42
  Jenea Robinson: you know, they there are some endometriosis that they see that may have come back already. And I feel I'm in a different place, though, now.
• 42:54
  Jenea Robinson: It's like, OK, here we go. But if it's it's new, it's there.
• 43:01
  Jenea Robinson: I've learned some things. I know what I need to do. Let's manage this and let's
• 43:08
  Jenea Robinson: prevent the spread.
• 43:09
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: It sounds like on the other side of all of that. The rapid change, the like
• 43:18
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: the loss of like control over what the outcomes would be, that you seem like you've arrived at a place of navigating womanhood and adulthood and your own personhood with a with a deeper sense of self
• 43:35
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: preservation. Does it feel that way? That's what you've kind of what what you were you were you had to go?
• 43:41
  Jenea Robinson: That's good. What you describe it in a great way. I'm going to steal that. But yeah, I had no I have no choice. It's either that or freak out. Right. And we know where that goes. And that's going to go nowhere. It's going to make everything worse.
• 43:56
  Jenea Robinson: There's enough information out there, though, now that I know I can research things that I need to keep my mental health. I know what to what I should be doing for my body. Maybe what I shouldn't be eating. Do I do those things all the time? No, because of course, after the surgery, then I'm like, you know what? I'm going to eat everything that I restricted. Yeah. Myself from eating, thinking it was going to help me. And because it didn't, I'm going to eat everything. Right. Right. And then there's the weight gain that comes with being menopausal. That's a real thing.
• 44:28
  Jenea Robinson: That's a real thing. It happened so fast. Someone who, you know, historically have been naturally thin. And I had I went through. I had to buy three different sets of jeans in about three or four months. Wow. Because the size the size kept popping up. Going up.
• 44:50
  Jenea Robinson: And talking about that instantaneous, you know, wasn't gradual. Right. I think it was the speed of everything is what was really challenging because there's no time to catch up. Yeah. But yes, a new body, a new mind,
• 45:07
  Jenea Robinson: even operating at a different speed. I was used to being able to, okay, I'm going to run this business, do this side project, go to work, do this thing after work. And I'm exhausted. I can't multitask in the way
• 45:22
  Jenea Robinson: that I used to.
• 45:23
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yeah. I can't imagine it is dizzying to be
• 45:30
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: chronologically asynchronous with the state of your body in terms of what it's able to do and how it wants to behave, you know, and having to just make that adjustment in a very private way, you know, where it's like you got to learn what you can say yes to and what you can say no to and how to set new boundaries and how to have more grace with yourself, you know, just because things are so, so different. Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:52
  Jenea Robinson: So, so different. And I'm learning to have that grace with myself. And then I am speaking up about it to friends and family so that they can understand because I'm like, okay, you may be used to Jenea that used to be able to do all of these things, but I can't. And when I tell you I wish that I could, I could probably push myself, but why? That's right. Why, why put that extra stress on me? One of the things I love,
• 46:17
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Umi is one of the, is one of the, she's the woman who was my, one of my mother's. She is one of my mother's. And she has a full sentence that is I can't. She says I can't. She'd be like, I can't. I can't. I can't. I can't, which is like the usual point you're asking me because I can't. You usually have to accept it because it is what it is. Yeah. Because I, I can't.
• 46:36
  Jenea Robinson: I can't, cannot, cannot, cannot. And that was something I had to accept because I've been someone like I can, I can do whatever I want to do. Things usually work out for me. Right. Whatever I set my mind to, I'm going to do it. Another grief. Yeah.
• 46:53
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: That's another grief. It's another grief. That's another grief or at least another thing that you have to just move to mourn and to accept and then to plan, you know, according to the way, you know, thinking about that, I'm wondering, you know, having gone through what you've gone through, what are those values now that really guide you? You know, what are the things that you really are thinking are most important for you in this season of life?
• 47:19
  Jenea Robinson: Um,
• 47:21
  Jenea Robinson: being present, I don't want to go through another season like I did these last five years where major things have happened, good and bad. And I have to process it after the fact. That doesn't feel good.
• 47:37
  Jenea Robinson: I run into people all the time who were either customers at the store or who came to events and they remind me of things that I haven't even thought about or forgot that I did.
• 47:51
  Jenea Robinson: They remind me of how amazing the space was and what you did. Like they're like, what you did was amazing. And it was, it was so needed and it was healing. And I'm like, oh, okay. I did do that.
• 48:04
  Jenea Robinson: And think about that thing.
• 48:08
  Jenea Robinson: And I don't, so I don't want to go. I don't want that to happen again because that feels that's, um,
• 48:14
  Jenea Robinson: it's like a disassociation type of thing. Great word.
• 48:17
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: So that's, I feel like that's an appropriate word. Yeah.
• 48:21
  Jenea Robinson: I don't love that. Yeah.
• 48:23
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yeah. So if the grind requires that it is, you're literally grinding yourself to a pulp. Like you are, that is, that's dust. That's not even, that's not life.
• 48:33
  Jenea Robinson: And it's not. So I don't want to do that again. I want to learn to enjoy stillness. And I am. That part, I really am. Enjoying being a little slower. I mean, I'd still work in PR. And that is not slow, but I'm not at like the fastest pace of places either. So, um, I'm learning to enjoy that. And there are, there are other creative projects that I've always wanted to do. So I'm trying to make space for those things as well.
• 49:05
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: I'm happy for you. Yeah. I'm happy for you. Thank you. I'm, I'm really happy that you are. You know, just settling into
• 49:16
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: making the absolute most of finding your own joy, of like protecting yourself, of like seeing yourself and holding yourself as precious. That is, that's the most remarkable thing that any of us can do with our lives. Yeah.
• 49:32
  Jenea Robinson: Thank you.
• 49:33
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Yeah. I'm very, very congratulations. Thank you so much. I'm really, really, I'm really, really happy. I'm really happy for you, Jenea. Thank you.
• 49:40
  Jenea Robinson: And I'm, I'm really happy for you.
• 49:41
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Thank you.
• 49:41
  Jenea Robinson: And I'm, I'm looking forward to what comes next.
• 49:43
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: You know, on the other side of all of this, you know, I'm thinking about the, the self preservation tools you've, you've come to with the silence and the stillness and the going slow and the saying no, I, I want to, to give you a chance to share what you've learned or what you wish someone would have told you to a woman or a daughter,
• 50:08
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: who is facing a health cliff around that notion of womanhood and that the changes that maybe, maybe perimenopause and might be menopause. It might be starting a period, you know, just like coming into a new relationship with the body and, and figuring out how to navigate that. So I'm going to ask you to talk to her directly and to, and to, to offer her a word that you hope will somehow
• 50:40
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: maybe empower her, maybe soften the journey, maybe give her some company when she feels lost and lonely.
• 50:47
  Jenea Robinson: Yeah. I would speak to two different women. I would speak to the young woman, maybe you're 12 or 13 years old and you're just starting this phase of life. It's scary. It's uncertain. Your body is doing things that your mind is not even ready for. If anything feels wrong, if you are experiencing pain and if you are bleeding, I'm going to be as great if you're bleeding more than you think that you should, you need to go to a doctor, have your mom take you to a doctor. In black communities, we often don't want to go to the OB before we're 16 or 18 because you think it's something that has to be done when you're a little older. Go, go early
• 51:36
  Jenea Robinson: and figure it out because it's not normal. And then if you are an older woman and you are going through a similar journey,
• 51:45
  Jenea Robinson: I want to encourage you to not give up though. They're not cures for this thing yet. I believe that there will be. And there's a community out there. You're not alone and we can figure this thing out together. There's a lot of
• 52:02
  Jenea Robinson: helpful information online and there's some great books and just be still with yourself and focus on your mental health and focus on your nervous system because those things make our conditions worse. So that would be my advice to you.
• 52:22
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: Thank you, Jenea. Jenea Robinson Thank you for having me.
• 52:25
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: So that was Jenea's first time telling the story of her journey with endometriosis. And I'm so grateful that she trusted me and us as a safe place to process what has been an exhausting journey to just rediscover herself in the face of that diagnosis and the hysterectomy that followed. One of my takeaways from my conversation with her, and I hope it's yours, is that life will present us with these unusual health diagnoses, that's for sure.
• 52:54
  Dr. Kimberly McGlonn: And because our bodies are so precious, we really need to manage our stress levels. We really need to be counterculture and our capacity to hear ourselves, to protect ourselves, to preserve ourselves and prioritize our own well-being. That's such a major part of beginning again, right? That capacity to rest, to still ourselves, and then to do the hard work of just living in a new way. So I don't know what that looks like for you today. But I'm wishing you lots of love and care and courage as you do what you need to do to take care of yourself. Until the next time, be sure to like, follow, subscribe, and share.