Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Grandma, Grandpa, Teen Grandson Murdered at Family Gun Range; KILLER AT LARGE

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Grandma, Grandpa, Teen Grandson Murdered at Family Gun Range; KILLER AT LARGE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece grandparents and their teen boy
0:16
Speaker 1: grandson visiting them on spring break. All dead. Not by
0:22
Speaker 1: an accident, I buy a car crash. They were murdered.
0:27
Speaker 1: The grandparents owned a mom and pop gun range, and somehow,
0:34
Speaker 1: from what we know right now, a perp had been
0:38
Speaker 1: watching drives up five thirty in the afternoon closing time
0:44
Speaker 1: on a Friday, and the three end up murdered, shot dead.
0:53
Speaker 1: This young boy had just gotten his cap and gown
0:58
Speaker 1: for his high school graduation. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
1:03
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
1:05
Speaker 1: Fox Station in series XM one eleven. Take a listen
1:08
Speaker 1: to our friends at w XIA eleven. Grantville Police Chief
1:12
Speaker 1: Steve Whitlocke says the call was something he never expected.
1:16
Speaker 1: Assistant Chief he callment said that we had a trap.
1:19
Speaker 1: In these exact words, we've had a tragedy in Grandmall
1:22
Speaker 1: and I said, what are you talking about? And he said,
1:23
Speaker 1: we've had possible a triple martyr and Florida police cars
1:28
Speaker 1: were still blocking the road early Saturday as investigators collected
1:32
Speaker 1: what evidence they could at lock stock and barrel gun range.
1:36
Speaker 1: Tony Hawk, his wife Evelyn and their grandson Luke were killed.
1:40
Speaker 1: Luke's father, Richard, who was also the Koheda County Corner,
1:43
Speaker 1: is the one police say found their bodies. A tragedy yes,
1:48
Speaker 1: a triple homicide yes, but who is the purp? With
1:54
Speaker 1: me and all Star panel to break it down and
1:56
Speaker 1: put it back together? What do we know now? James
2:00
Speaker 1: shell Nutt twenty seven years metro major case now lawyer
2:04
Speaker 1: at the shell Nutt Firm. Karen Stark we now psychologists
2:08
Speaker 1: joining us out of Manhattan at karen Starton dot com.
2:13
Speaker 1: Karen with a C. Joseph Scot Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville
2:17
Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon
2:21
Speaker 1: and star of a brand new hit series, Body Bags
2:24
Speaker 1: That Joe Scott Morgan on iHeart Cheryl McCollum, Founder director
2:28
Speaker 1: of the Coldcase Research Institute. You can find her at
2:31
Speaker 1: Coldcase Crimes dot org. But first to a special guest
2:35
Speaker 1: joining us, Justin Carter, w sb TV, Justin, thank you
2:39
Speaker 1: for being with us. What do we know right now?
2:43
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Grantville. First of all, tiny, tiny, tiny, off.
2:49
Speaker 1: I guess it would be I eighty five or is
2:52
Speaker 1: it I twenty in Kaweita County. Oh, yeah, Nancy, this
2:55
Speaker 1: is a small town. I would say, thirty five hundred
2:59
Speaker 1: people accord into neighbors. I've been speaking with neighbors all
3:02
Speaker 1: week all weekend, I should say, Um, you know, ever
3:05
Speaker 1: since this happened. It happened Friday night. Police say that
3:09
Speaker 1: it happened around five thirty six thirty. And that's key, Nancy,
3:13
Speaker 1: because a minute, wait a minute, I thought they at
3:15
Speaker 1: first said between five thirty and six thirty, and then
3:18
Speaker 1: somehow narrowed it down to five thirty. Is that not accurate? Um?
3:22
Speaker 1: That is that is accurate. It's around that time, So
3:24
Speaker 1: it's around closing time. They've ten pointed that. So between
3:27
Speaker 1: five thirty and six thirty, which is around closing time,
3:30
Speaker 1: the time that the Hawks family typically closes the lock
3:34
Speaker 1: stock and barrel gun range. And Nancy, I just want
3:37
Speaker 1: to paint the picture for you. This is a rural town.
3:40
Speaker 1: Like I said, thirty five hundred people. Everybody knows each other,
3:44
Speaker 1: and the gun range it's sits back a few a
3:47
Speaker 1: few feet from the actual road. It's on Bohannon Road
3:51
Speaker 1: in Coweeda County, in Grantville, and just a very rural,
3:56
Speaker 1: desolate road. You know, again not everybody. Everybody knows each other,
4:00
Speaker 1: and houses are spread apart, they're pretty spent a part.
4:03
Speaker 1: Maybe I would say there's, you know, a house every
4:07
Speaker 1: quarter of a mile, so that kind of paints the
4:09
Speaker 1: picture to show how small this town is and just
4:12
Speaker 1: you know, how close knits this town is too. Justin
4:15
Speaker 1: I'm curious with me, Justin Carner from WSBTV, were there
4:19
Speaker 1: any billboards on the interstate advertising blocks talking barrel? Not
4:27
Speaker 1: that I saw. It's a forty five minute drive from Atlanta,
4:31
Speaker 1: the wsc TV station in Atlanta to Grantville, Kweita County.
4:35
Speaker 1: Well you must be flying because it's fifty miles from here.
4:40
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I guess maybe wherever wherever you are,
4:43
Speaker 1: I don't know, just comparing the two. But yeah, it
4:45
Speaker 1: was about forty five minutes. You know, I'm a morning
4:47
Speaker 1: reporter on the weekend, so there's typically no traffic, so
4:51
Speaker 1: it took us about forty forty five fifty minutes to
4:53
Speaker 1: get there. Very rural and very remote. Now, who needs
4:57
Speaker 1: a billboard when you've got a website which opens you
5:01
Speaker 1: up to a lot of people all around the world
5:04
Speaker 1: that can find you. This again, let me say it
5:07
Speaker 1: was a small mom and pop a gun range and gunshop.
5:12
Speaker 1: They had an indoor and an outdoor range about one
5:15
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty yards that you could shoot. But you
5:19
Speaker 1: know what's interesting, let me go to you, James Shelnott,
5:22
Speaker 1: twenty seven years Metro major case detective and now lawyer. James. Typically,
5:29
Speaker 1: when you have a gunshop robbery, it's a burglary. That's
5:36
Speaker 1: a subtle but important distinction. A burglary occurs when no
5:40
Speaker 1: one's inside. They go in after it's closed and rob it.
5:46
Speaker 1: Because typically, I mean think about it, when a gunshop,
5:49
Speaker 1: the perps would think that the gunstore owners are probably
5:54
Speaker 1: more heavily armed than they are. They're out gunned clearly.
5:58
Speaker 1: So it's very rare that we see a gunshot, a
6:02
Speaker 1: gun store robbed, arm robbed, not burglarized. Think about it. Yeah,
6:09
Speaker 1: I grew with you one hundred percent, and you know this.
6:11
Speaker 1: I've been in this place. This is my home county
6:14
Speaker 1: that was raised in. I knew these people. I had
6:17
Speaker 1: been in this gunshot before. I'm familiar with that area,
6:20
Speaker 1: and I will tell you it is very odd that
6:23
Speaker 1: it was not broken into at night. Normally, what you
6:25
Speaker 1: see is you see somebody to create some diversion on
6:27
Speaker 1: the other side of the seat of or County and
6:29
Speaker 1: then they run in and smashed the doors in and
6:32
Speaker 1: grab the guns. They walked in and confronted the owner.
6:35
Speaker 1: And Tommy generally carried a gun. He generally had a
6:39
Speaker 1: gun on him. It just it raises a lot of
6:42
Speaker 1: questions that we can talk about later. Did he have
6:44
Speaker 1: a stroke and he was out and he was just
6:46
Speaker 1: now coming back. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know
6:48
Speaker 1: his medical condition is, but I know that generally he
6:51
Speaker 1: carried a gun, and I know there were multiple guns
6:53
Speaker 1: in there. So whoever this is guns down him seventy
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Speaker 1: five years old, his wife, the church pianist, seventy five
7:03
Speaker 1: years old, and their teen grandson. Now you know Justin Carter,
7:11
Speaker 1: he I think was on his spring break and was
7:14
Speaker 1: helping out at the gun range. He just happened to
7:17
Speaker 1: be there. I want to talk about what was stolen,
7:20
Speaker 1: what specifically was stolen Justin Carter. So yeah, Nancy police
7:25
Speaker 1: have kind of been tight lipped right now as far
7:27
Speaker 1: as what has been stolen. Of course, the ATF was
7:30
Speaker 1: brought in to investigate because there were so many guns
7:34
Speaker 1: stolen we're told up where the forty guns were stolen,
7:38
Speaker 1: and they have been upping their reward to reflect just
7:42
Speaker 1: how serious this crime was. But yeah, they really haven't
7:45
Speaker 1: been specific on what exactly what guns were stolen, but
7:49
Speaker 1: they were definitely large guns. When we were shooting video
7:52
Speaker 1: over the weekend, I've been a prised that at least
7:55
Speaker 1: forty guns and very important they secure suit DVR was taken.
8:04
Speaker 1: Now that means this part, if it is just one part,
8:08
Speaker 1: which I doubt is no idiot. Let's talk about forensics.
8:12
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan joining me, Professor forensic jacksona State University,
8:15
Speaker 1: and Cheryl McCollum, found a director of the Cold Case
8:18
Speaker 1: Research Institute. First of you, Joe Scott, if you've got
8:23
Speaker 1: a DVR, that suggests to me that the video is
8:27
Speaker 1: not in the cloud, it's on the DVR. Yeah, you're right,
8:30
Speaker 1: it's on some kind of hard drive that's there. And also,
8:34
Speaker 1: who in the hey would know so intimately that if
8:38
Speaker 1: they took the DVR there would be no video. Who
8:42
Speaker 1: would know it's not in the cloud. Yeah, it goes
8:45
Speaker 1: to a bigger point here. That means that somebody has
8:48
Speaker 1: been watching. That means that somebody, in my opinion, has
8:53
Speaker 1: been has set foot in here before. And this goes
8:57
Speaker 1: to the idea that A, why would you have to
9:02
Speaker 1: eradicate two generations of this family. Well, that means that
9:06
Speaker 1: there is a high probability that this individual may have
9:09
Speaker 1: been familiar with this family. They didn't just rob it,
9:13
Speaker 1: they had to shoot them dead because they could identify them.
9:18
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole m O is all wrong, Cheryl McCollum.
9:23
Speaker 1: It's all wrong for a gunshot robbery, a gunshot burglary.
9:28
Speaker 1: You know what, why would you go in with the cars?
9:31
Speaker 1: I think they had a pickup truck, one or two
9:34
Speaker 1: pickup trucks part right there that knew that they were inside.
9:40
Speaker 1: Why not wait till they're closed up. Yeah, there was
9:42
Speaker 1: at least two pickup trucks, so you absolutely knew somebody
9:46
Speaker 1: was in that store. And again being a pickup truck,
9:48
Speaker 1: if it weren't the owners, or one was the owner,
9:51
Speaker 1: one was somebody else in there actively shooting. So it
9:54
Speaker 1: seems like that would have, you know, hesitated this person somewhat.
9:58
Speaker 1: You know, George's had two gunshop robbed in burglarized in
10:03
Speaker 1: the last four or five years, all after hours, so
10:06
Speaker 1: again the fact they were all wrong, and why take
10:11
Speaker 1: the guns and let the people live? Why not that
10:15
Speaker 1: guys take a listen to our cut eleven Elizabeth Rawlins
10:19
Speaker 1: investigators stood out front of city Hall announcing that that
10:22
Speaker 1: reward now stands at twenty five thousand dollars for anyone
10:26
Speaker 1: with information. It was a busy weekend for investigators in
10:29
Speaker 1: Calweeda County tracking any possible leads after a family was
10:32
Speaker 1: murdered inside their Grantville business, But at a news conference
10:35
Speaker 1: on Monday, investigators announced they still do not know who
10:38
Speaker 1: shot and killed Richard Hawk, his wife Evelyn, and their
10:40
Speaker 1: teenage grandson Luke at the Lock and Stock Barrel Range.
10:44
Speaker 1: As of yesterday, there was a fifteen thousand dollars total
10:48
Speaker 1: reward for information that would lead to an arrest in
10:52
Speaker 1: successful prosecution. The search is now I'm getting nationwide attention,
10:56
Speaker 1: including Georgia Governor Brian Kemp signing an executive order Monday
10:59
Speaker 1: afternoon pledging to contribute ten thousand dollars to the reward fund.
11:03
Speaker 1: We are providing a tipline and that number is one
11:07
Speaker 1: eight eight ATF tips. Interesting that the ATF has been
11:12
Speaker 1: brought into the case. You've got You've got the Grandful
11:17
Speaker 1: Police Department, You've got Kweeda County Sheriffs on it, you
11:21
Speaker 1: have the GBI on it. But now the ATF. And
11:25
Speaker 1: it is because so many guns were stolen at least
11:28
Speaker 1: forty time stories with Nancy Grace. Big question to you
11:47
Speaker 1: justin Carter WSBTV. Did they secure the guns at not
11:53
Speaker 1: to think of a jewelry store, they take all the
11:56
Speaker 1: expensive jewelry out of the front window when they close,
11:59
Speaker 1: and they put it back in the vault with a
12:01
Speaker 1: gun shot. Very often you will see a steel cable
12:05
Speaker 1: run through the guns so they can't be taken or
12:10
Speaker 1: taken down off the stands like the diamond rings and
12:13
Speaker 1: put in a vault of some sort. Did the victims
12:17
Speaker 1: in this case at lock Stock and Bryl, did they
12:22
Speaker 1: remove the guns or secure them at closing time? Well, Nancy,
12:25
Speaker 1: right now it is unclear. I did ask the police chief,
12:28
Speaker 1: Steve Whitlocke, you know what was it like inside? Can
12:31
Speaker 1: you paint that picture for us? Can you tell us
12:33
Speaker 1: what was going on inside or you know, just set
12:36
Speaker 1: the scene for us. And he said that, you know,
12:38
Speaker 1: it was flipped upside down, you know, as expected when
12:41
Speaker 1: a robbery of this magnitude happened. So as far as
12:46
Speaker 1: how the shop was set up and you know where
12:49
Speaker 1: the guns were. Were they in the case? Were they
12:51
Speaker 1: behind a counter? That is to be determined, and that's
12:53
Speaker 1: what the GBI Georgia Bureau of Investigations is working on
12:57
Speaker 1: right now. What do you know, James Shell not you've
12:59
Speaker 1: been in there before. They did have cases at one
13:01
Speaker 1: point in time. He also did have guns stored in
13:04
Speaker 1: the back at one point in time. Well wa wait,
13:06
Speaker 1: let's not telling me whether they were secured or not. Well,
13:09
Speaker 1: they were secured in a glass case the last time
13:11
Speaker 1: that I saw this secured and a glass case as
13:15
Speaker 1: much as they can be in a glass. Okay. I
13:17
Speaker 1: don't know what alternate universe you're living in, but you
13:20
Speaker 1: are familiar with the term smashing drive, right Okay. I'm
13:24
Speaker 1: looking at a picture right now on the inside of
13:28
Speaker 1: locksick and barrel, and there are many, many handguns for sale.
13:35
Speaker 1: There's nothing between me and them but a piece of
13:39
Speaker 1: glass that's not secured. I agree, they were stored would
13:43
Speaker 1: be a much better way to put it, sure in
13:45
Speaker 1: plain view. Agree, So I'm just wondering. I'm thinking this
13:49
Speaker 1: through Ryl McCollum. If the purp knew that the guns
13:53
Speaker 1: would be removed from the case at closing time and
13:57
Speaker 1: put away, or they would be secured in some way, well,
14:00
Speaker 1: I think that's why he went in right at closing time,
14:03
Speaker 1: before that was able to happen. He was able to
14:05
Speaker 1: get at quick said no, I'm agreeingly to say something different.
14:10
Speaker 1: You're not to say there's say what she said. But
14:14
Speaker 1: in this case, that's what I honestly believe happened. I
14:17
Speaker 1: think the timing was deliberate. I think it was executed
14:20
Speaker 1: the way that they wanted it to be done. I
14:23
Speaker 1: think this was for the resale up somewhere like New York,
14:28
Speaker 1: because in Atlanta, you know, stolen gun's gonna be worth
14:31
Speaker 1: about two hundred dollars. You get it to Atlanta, I
14:34
Speaker 1: mean New York, it's gonna be worth about twelve hundred.
14:37
Speaker 1: This is a sixty thousand dollars crime. Lowball in it.
14:41
Speaker 1: Who would have done it again? The working theory is
14:45
Speaker 1: that this family was gunned down, including a teen boy
14:50
Speaker 1: set to graduate with honors on May twenty five, White
14:55
Speaker 1: gun him down. Back to Justin Carner joining us from WSBTV,
15:00
Speaker 1: it's my understanding all three victims were lying on the ground,
15:04
Speaker 1: on the floor, just a few steps away from each other. Yes,
15:10
Speaker 1: we I did not get that specific piece of information
15:14
Speaker 1: from the police chief directly. Again, the GBI is, you know,
15:17
Speaker 1: working around the clock, and we're getting most of our
15:19
Speaker 1: information from the police chief. But as far as the
15:23
Speaker 1: extent of where they were shot and where they were located,
15:26
Speaker 1: I have not heard anything about that. Nancy. Listen, if
15:32
Speaker 1: you've got three people that are lying on the floor
15:34
Speaker 1: in immediate proximity of one another, that would give you
15:37
Speaker 1: an indication style yeah, well, yeah, and control. So that
15:41
Speaker 1: means that I think that this goes to probably more
15:44
Speaker 1: than one perpetrator. One other thing here, you're talking about
15:47
Speaker 1: forty weapons, Nancy. If you begin to do the math
15:50
Speaker 1: on this, this isn't like you're going to smash and
15:52
Speaker 1: grab a couple of handguns out of a case and
15:54
Speaker 1: run out to the car, William and take off. This
15:57
Speaker 1: takes time, and it takes some level of precision in
16:00
Speaker 1: order to do this. These weapons, some of them depend
16:03
Speaker 1: upon the type of weapon, can be heavy and so
16:06
Speaker 1: it's just not one person that's toting these out of
16:09
Speaker 1: the door unless they execute these individuals as soon as
16:12
Speaker 1: this took place. You have to have somebody on top
16:15
Speaker 1: of these people controlling them so that you're you're not
16:19
Speaker 1: going to receive any harm as the perpetrator. That's why
16:22
Speaker 1: I think that there's more than two violators that are
16:25
Speaker 1: involved in this thing. So you got one person to
16:28
Speaker 1: stand over and control them. The other person is rummaging around,
16:32
Speaker 1: maybe even three, who knows, But I can tell you
16:34
Speaker 1: it's not just one person. And think of the exertion
16:37
Speaker 1: you used to take all of those weapons out of
16:40
Speaker 1: the gun shop and transport them. This is what I
16:44
Speaker 1: think should be being done right now. Number one, list
16:48
Speaker 1: of customers, everybody that had bought a gun, everybody that
16:51
Speaker 1: had been to the gun range over the last two years.
16:54
Speaker 1: Number two, as he saw in the case of Alex Murdog,
16:58
Speaker 1: remember him the law lawyer in Carolina. His wife and
17:03
Speaker 1: his son end up dead and he tries to shoot
17:06
Speaker 1: himself in the head. Turned out to be his dope
17:08
Speaker 1: deal and buddy that did it in that case. As
17:12
Speaker 1: we discussed Joe Scott Morgan, you and Cheryl and I,
17:16
Speaker 1: the fact that at the end of the rural road,
17:19
Speaker 1: dirt road where Murdoch was shot in the head and
17:21
Speaker 1: lived was a church as I recall, maybe the Emmanuel
17:26
Speaker 1: Baptist No First Baptist, and they had a surveillance camera
17:33
Speaker 1: in their parking lot. Now we know the DVR surveillance
17:37
Speaker 1: video has been taken out of lock stock and barrel
17:40
Speaker 1: gun range. We know that. What about this? What about
17:44
Speaker 1: every ring doorbell up and down that highway? What about
17:48
Speaker 1: every red light cam? What about every gas station cam?
17:53
Speaker 1: What about any flock camera? What the flock camera? I
17:59
Speaker 1: know P three City noon in Coweeda County they have
18:01
Speaker 1: the flock camera that can trace vehicles all the way
18:06
Speaker 1: from Georgia to Alabama to Tennessee to Florida. That's right.
18:10
Speaker 1: What about we're close to Interstate eighty five? What about
18:17
Speaker 1: tag grabbers going up down the interstate around five o'clock
18:21
Speaker 1: and after going the other way. There are so many
18:25
Speaker 1: ways to try to get surveillance, but it takes time.
18:28
Speaker 1: But number one getting that customer list and anybody that
18:32
Speaker 1: have been using the shooting range. Is anybody with me
18:35
Speaker 1: on that? Yeah? I am Nancy, and I gotta tell
18:37
Speaker 1: you I'm looking at a map right now. The easiest
18:40
Speaker 1: way to access this place is off of a highway.
18:42
Speaker 1: That's a combo hiway called fourteen twenty nine twenty nine
18:45
Speaker 1: being an old federal road, and you literally have to
18:48
Speaker 1: take a left hand turn if you're coming from the
18:51
Speaker 1: south to go through Grantville. Did you know that when
18:53
Speaker 1: you pass through this area in Grantville, you're actually passing
18:56
Speaker 1: by the Grantville US Postal Service, You're passing by a
19:01
Speaker 1: Dollar General, You're passing by the Grantville branch of the
19:05
Speaker 1: Kiweeda Library. There, there's all kinds of places. You even
19:09
Speaker 1: passed by a public housing location. So these are all
19:13
Speaker 1: en route to this location. You got you gotta figure
19:18
Speaker 1: that somewhere along this range right through here, unless they
19:21
Speaker 1: entered from the north, they're going to be surveillance camps
19:24
Speaker 1: all along this road until you get out to this
19:27
Speaker 1: kind of desolate stretch that's to the north side of Grantville.
19:31
Speaker 1: You know another thing that Nancy hold on, Sheryl, justin Carter,
19:34
Speaker 1: you said that there'd be a house about every quarter mile. Yeah,
19:37
Speaker 1: about every quarter mile, Nancy. And also I just want
19:39
Speaker 1: to point out too, there is a major movie production
19:43
Speaker 1: being filmed in Grantville as we speak, just down the road,
19:48
Speaker 1: I would say, maybe a mile down the road. It
19:50
Speaker 1: took my breath away when I saw that The Color Purple,
19:53
Speaker 1: the motion picture of the Color Purple is filming in
19:56
Speaker 1: Grantville right down the street. Their building set. They are
20:02
Speaker 1: you know, painting buildings to prepare for this big motion picture.
20:05
Speaker 1: So that also has to be into play too. This area,
20:08
Speaker 1: the Grantville area right now is it's an unprecedented time
20:12
Speaker 1: for them right now because that there's this big movie
20:15
Speaker 1: production happening just down the street. There are security guards
20:18
Speaker 1: out there as well that may have seen something, and
20:20
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there are there's some type of surveillance
20:24
Speaker 1: system out there to protect the trailers, the you know,
20:27
Speaker 1: million dollar trailers and you know, production equipment out there.
20:45
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. The horrible coincidence that when
20:57
Speaker 1: the coroner's office arrived at the Saint it turned out
21:03
Speaker 1: to be is the coroner's son and parents and that
21:09
Speaker 1: we're dead, explain Justin Carner. Oh my gosh, Nancy, I
21:13
Speaker 1: think that is probably the worst, um, the worst little
21:17
Speaker 1: nugget out of all of this. You know, it was
21:19
Speaker 1: around eight pm, so about two hours after this allegedly happened.
21:24
Speaker 1: The Cowweeda County corner who is named after his father.
21:29
Speaker 1: His name was Richard Hall. He discovered the bodies and
21:33
Speaker 1: he called nine one one, and so that is just
21:36
Speaker 1: just a horrific piece and detail of this story that
21:39
Speaker 1: many people around town and Grantville and in the Atlanta
21:42
Speaker 1: area are struggling to grapple with. You know, you witness
21:46
Speaker 1: and you stumble upon just this grizzly scene and it
21:50
Speaker 1: is your family members, So you know, that little that
21:54
Speaker 1: little nugget, there's just heart wrenching. And we did reach
21:57
Speaker 1: out to the Cowweeda County Coroner, Richard Hall over the weekend.
22:01
Speaker 1: He did he did say that he was appreciative of
22:05
Speaker 1: all the love and support, all the flowers people have
22:07
Speaker 1: been dropping off, all the teddy bears, and he is
22:10
Speaker 1: definitely you know, asking the public as well to respective
22:13
Speaker 1: families privacy of the time. The tip line if you
22:16
Speaker 1: know or think you know anything is for atf eight
22:20
Speaker 1: eight eight two eight three eight four seven seven repeat
22:25
Speaker 1: eight eight eight two eight three eight four seven seven
22:29
Speaker 1: toll free. There is also a way to report it
22:34
Speaker 1: and get that twenty five thousand dollar reward, and that
22:38
Speaker 1: is going online to report it, report it and you
22:42
Speaker 1: can remain anonymous there take a listen to our cut
22:46
Speaker 1: nine from ABC. I've been here eight years and we've
22:49
Speaker 1: never had nothing like this, an unimaginable tragedy in Grantville.
22:53
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm speech Let's really I have a hard
22:54
Speaker 1: time talking about it because, like I said, they were
22:56
Speaker 1: good friends of ours. I've known him for a long time.
22:59
Speaker 1: Grantville Police Chief Steve Whitlock says it was around closing
23:02
Speaker 1: time five thirty Friday evening when the lockstock and Barrels
23:05
Speaker 1: shooting range was robbed. Hours went by. Police say the
23:08
Speaker 1: owner's son stopped by around eight o'clock and made that
23:11
Speaker 1: horrific discovery inside where the owners, his parents, Tommy Hawk
23:16
Speaker 1: and his seventies his wife, Evelyn Hawk, and their teenage grandson,
23:19
Speaker 1: Luke Hawk, were told Luke was on spring break helping
23:22
Speaker 1: his grandparents at the shop. So many questions right now,
23:26
Speaker 1: but again reported dot com or eight eight eight two
23:31
Speaker 1: eight three eight four seven seven, there is a twenty
23:35
Speaker 1: five thousand dollar reward now that has been grade it
23:39
Speaker 1: has it not? Justin didn't start at fifteen and then
23:43
Speaker 1: ten was added on or vice versa, correct, correct Nancy.
23:47
Speaker 1: The governor's office is now involved and they just recently
23:50
Speaker 1: up that reward ten thousand dollars just as early as
23:53
Speaker 1: yesterday for any information leading to concrete for you, any
23:58
Speaker 1: any concrete me some leading to an arrest in this
24:01
Speaker 1: cave to you, Cheryl McCollum, or really anyone on the panel.
24:07
Speaker 1: Guns are easily traced. Explain how I work, Cheryl. Well,
24:11
Speaker 1: you can trace a gun through the serial number, you
24:14
Speaker 1: can trace it through the strations that it leaves. There's
24:17
Speaker 1: lots of way you can trace a weapon. And that's
24:19
Speaker 1: one thing I was going to say. Depending on what
24:21
Speaker 1: they were shot with, the type of weapon, the caliber,
24:25
Speaker 1: those bullets are most likely intact, and if they were
24:28
Speaker 1: able to retrieve those that's going to be a fabulous thing.
24:31
Speaker 1: If it was an automatic, we won't have a casing.
24:33
Speaker 1: But if it wasn't, we might. They might have taken
24:37
Speaker 1: that too. We don't know. We don't know what all
24:39
Speaker 1: they did. But Grantful is three thousand people. So everybody
24:45
Speaker 1: was connected to this family that lives in that town.
24:47
Speaker 1: They went to school with them, church with them, where
24:49
Speaker 1: friends with them, worked with them. But the other thing
24:53
Speaker 1: that I think it's going to be really powerful here
24:55
Speaker 1: that we hadn't talked about are the cell phone towers. Oh,
24:58
Speaker 1: you're right, and you know Grant Bull, I mean you
25:01
Speaker 1: go to Luther's Ville and take a lift, so that
25:03
Speaker 1: last power that people hit on, you're not going to
25:06
Speaker 1: be talking about that many phones to go through. That's moving,
25:09
Speaker 1: and then they'll be able to see what tower that
25:12
Speaker 1: phone comes in at and leaves at. And regarding the
25:15
Speaker 1: guns and the bullets, I was specifically asking about the
25:19
Speaker 1: guns that were stolen, because those are going to hit
25:22
Speaker 1: the street at a huge markup. This could end up
25:26
Speaker 1: being thousands and thousands of dollars that these Well, I
25:30
Speaker 1: don't see that serial numbers have already been obliterated, so
25:33
Speaker 1: that's going to be a little more difficult and they
25:35
Speaker 1: won't have them on the register. Well to you just
25:39
Speaker 1: got Morgan, there is actually a bullet an MMO database,
25:45
Speaker 1: much like the fingerprint database, the DNA database, like codis
25:52
Speaker 1: and aphis, there is a bullet database in effect right now. Yeah,
25:57
Speaker 1: and hey, what do we learn at the top of
25:59
Speaker 1: the hour, at the top of the show, whether the
26:02
Speaker 1: ATF is involved. And interestingly enough, the ATF is actually
26:06
Speaker 1: the agency that controls that database, so they control if
26:10
Speaker 1: a weapon is fired. And as mac had mentioned, you
26:13
Speaker 1: recovered the actual projectile. It will have striations or the
26:17
Speaker 1: markings on the bullet from the rifling when it comes
26:20
Speaker 1: down the gun, and those are unique to every particular weapon.
26:24
Speaker 1: And say, for instance, a weapon has been used in
26:26
Speaker 1: the commission of a felony, if you can trace that
26:29
Speaker 1: back to that particular weapon after it's been utilized, then
26:33
Speaker 1: that is essentially a ballistic fingerprint that you can track
26:36
Speaker 1: it down with. However, this is the problem. Unless that
26:40
Speaker 1: weapon or that AMMO is already in the database, you're
26:45
Speaker 1: not going to have You're not going to have a
26:47
Speaker 1: print that goes back to it. It's like people always
26:49
Speaker 1: say with me, well why don't you use DNA to
26:51
Speaker 1: solve the case. Okay, well, yeah, well we can collect DNA,
26:54
Speaker 1: but if we don't have pre existing DNA to compare
26:57
Speaker 1: it to, there's a problem. So that where you're gonna
27:00
Speaker 1: bump up against a wall with these these are I'm
27:03
Speaker 1: sure that there's probably some weapons here that have been
27:05
Speaker 1: kind of used in trade. Maybe they've been purchased their
27:09
Speaker 1: used weapons, Maybe those have some kind of markings on
27:12
Speaker 1: them that you can trace back. However, if their new weapons,
27:15
Speaker 1: it's not going to be in the database. To James
27:17
Speaker 1: shell Nutt joining US twenty seven years Metro a major
27:20
Speaker 1: case now lawyer at shell nut Law Firm, James shell Nutt,
27:26
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, just said something that caught my attention, the
27:31
Speaker 1: fact that with these guns, if they sell them with
27:34
Speaker 1: the serial number on them, they're dead meet because it's
27:37
Speaker 1: going to be traced right back to them. But I
27:41
Speaker 1: believe she's right. I believe they will have to file
27:44
Speaker 1: down the serial numbers on the guns. That's going to
27:48
Speaker 1: take a minute for forty guns. That means, in my estimation,
27:53
Speaker 1: they still have the guns right now. If they're apprehended
27:57
Speaker 1: right now, they will still have the weapons that would
28:01
Speaker 1: be powerful proof. Yeah, I think that there's definitely a
28:03
Speaker 1: chance of that. And a lot of times as well,
28:05
Speaker 1: you know, people will hold onto these guns for men
28:07
Speaker 1: and kind of let things called down and then maybe
28:09
Speaker 1: put them in the circulation of the criminal world, you know.
28:15
Speaker 1: At the flip side of that, as they may want
28:16
Speaker 1: to get rid of them quickly too. But I've found
28:18
Speaker 1: a lot of times they will hold onto these guns.
28:19
Speaker 1: It does take time to get these serial numbers off.
28:22
Speaker 1: These serial numbers are not easily ground off, even taking
28:24
Speaker 1: a tool sometimes after they've been ground on for a while,
28:27
Speaker 1: you can still make out a serial number by processing
28:30
Speaker 1: that weapon. So I believe that out of forty weapons,
28:33
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to believe that at some point
28:35
Speaker 1: in time, if this case is not resolved before, then
28:38
Speaker 1: at some point in time, one of those weapons is
28:40
Speaker 1: going to be recovered and that's going to allow them
28:43
Speaker 1: to be able to backtrack in their investigation the source
28:46
Speaker 1: of those weapons. To you, Karen start joining us, a
28:49
Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of Manhattan, Karen, the mindset that
28:54
Speaker 1: it would take to go in and gun down two
28:59
Speaker 1: seniors seventy five years old. Ones just had a stroke.
29:03
Speaker 1: The other is a female, his wife and their teen
29:08
Speaker 1: grandson who's you know, ten days away from high school graduation. No, Nancy,
29:14
Speaker 1: I will keep thinking about that and the fact that
29:16
Speaker 1: it's such a small town and everyone knows each other.
29:20
Speaker 1: And what I wonder is if it was some kind
29:23
Speaker 1: of a robbery gone wrong, they were the person whoever
29:28
Speaker 1: these purps are were identified, they could know them, They
29:32
Speaker 1: knew them, and so they felt they had to kill them,
29:35
Speaker 1: or that you know, Tony Hawk was a hero trying
29:39
Speaker 1: to be a hero, or his grandther and did something
29:44
Speaker 1: to try and stop it and defend themselves, because it
29:48
Speaker 1: just doesn't make a lot of sense that they would
29:51
Speaker 1: need to kill them or even go there at a
29:53
Speaker 1: time when they were there, unless they somehow thought they
29:57
Speaker 1: wouldn't be identified and something went wrong. That's what it
30:00
Speaker 1: seemed like to make Or it's a psychopath and could
30:04
Speaker 1: care less about the people involved. They're ragged off and
30:08
Speaker 1: they're just going to the gun justin Carner, WSBTV joining us.
30:12
Speaker 1: Do we know if the gun range had an alarm system?
30:17
Speaker 1: I would say, in that remote area with thirty five population, no,
30:22
Speaker 1: but they had security surveillance. Yeah, that's right. And there's
30:25
Speaker 1: many signs plastered all around the gun range saying that
30:29
Speaker 1: the building is heavily secured. As far as an alarm,
30:32
Speaker 1: there was no indication from where I was standing. Of course,
30:36
Speaker 1: it's been blocked off for several days now, of going
30:38
Speaker 1: on four or five days now, but there was no indication, Nancy,
30:41
Speaker 1: that there were any alarms inside. But definitely there were signs,
30:45
Speaker 1: I would say, several signs plastered all throughout, all throughout
30:49
Speaker 1: the building, outside the building and by the lockstock and
30:52
Speaker 1: barrel sign along the road that said that the business
30:56
Speaker 1: was being monitored by surveillance. So you're saying there were
31:00
Speaker 1: signs all along the road leading up to the gun shop. No,
31:04
Speaker 1: there was. There was a sign that there was a
31:06
Speaker 1: sign right by. There's a sign right next to the
31:09
Speaker 1: road where the entrance is of the gun shop, and
31:13
Speaker 1: it says lockstock and Barrel. It has the phone number,
31:16
Speaker 1: it says that it's a family owned business. And then
31:18
Speaker 1: right under that sign it says, we are being monitored
31:22
Speaker 1: by surveillance. I don't know what the company is like
31:25
Speaker 1: RV surveillance, what I do recall And then there is
31:28
Speaker 1: a sign as well by the front entrance as well
31:31
Speaker 1: as a building. You know, it's interesting about that, the
31:34
Speaker 1: fact that they had security surveillance. If it's not hooked
31:39
Speaker 1: up to the cloud, taking the DVR would get rid
31:44
Speaker 1: of all that security surveillance. But the timing five thirty
31:49
Speaker 1: in the afternoon, if somebody knew that there was an
31:54
Speaker 1: alarm system, the way to beat the alarm, which would
31:59
Speaker 1: typically call police immediately if there's a burglary, is to
32:03
Speaker 1: go in before the alarm is set, which would mean
32:06
Speaker 1: they would have to go in while the victims were
32:10
Speaker 1: in there. What about that, Joe Scott. Yeah, and this
32:13
Speaker 1: goes to the knowledge of how this business and this
32:17
Speaker 1: family operates that that's my contention. I think that there's
32:21
Speaker 1: some level of familiarity with the comings and goings of
32:25
Speaker 1: these individuals that owned the Hawk family that owned this facility.
32:31
Speaker 1: I think that these individuals had certainly been there before.
32:33
Speaker 1: I don't know if they were over customers, but they
32:35
Speaker 1: had an awareness of what their what their routine is,
32:40
Speaker 1: and you start to get toward the end of the day,
32:43
Speaker 1: you know, folks are going to start to wind things down.
32:45
Speaker 1: Maybe it's at this point in time that uh, you
32:48
Speaker 1: know James had mentioned earlier about securing weapons and many
32:51
Speaker 1: times in shops like this, if they do have a safe,
32:54
Speaker 1: a large in dwelling safe, and a facility like this
32:57
Speaker 1: that's safe is open. At that point, then you start
33:01
Speaker 1: taking things off of the wall. For instance, you start
33:04
Speaker 1: taking things out of the case and you put them back.
33:06
Speaker 1: And to say, you know, wouldn't that be an opportune
33:08
Speaker 1: moment in time when somebody is distracted by that work
33:12
Speaker 1: to have their backturn just for an instant where somebody
33:15
Speaker 1: could come in and take control of this environment and
33:18
Speaker 1: rekill in there. I think it's too much of a
33:20
Speaker 1: coincidence that they come at five thirty, just at closing time.
33:23
Speaker 1: Whoever did this knew they were closing up, knew they
33:27
Speaker 1: may be turning on an alarm. I'm also curious as
33:29
Speaker 1: to where the DVR was. Was it in plain view
33:32
Speaker 1: or did the pup have to know where to look
33:35
Speaker 1: to find the DVR that was storing the video surveillance. Guys,
33:39
Speaker 1: it's not the first time a business has been broken into.
33:44
Speaker 1: Arm drob the arm robbers willing to kill. Take a
33:49
Speaker 1: listen to our cut. Fifteen Pixie eleven twenty years ago
33:53
Speaker 1: forty twelve was the sight of Wendy's, the place where
33:57
Speaker 1: Nazario's brother ramone and six coworkers was shot execution style
34:01
Speaker 1: and a basement freezer and man were ready close during
34:06
Speaker 1: a robbery planned by former assistant manager John Taylor. Taylor
34:11
Speaker 1: and accomplished Craig Gadino took the E train to Jackson
34:15
Speaker 1: Heights and the seven to Main Street. John Taylor blamed
34:18
Speaker 1: the shooting Zangadino. I would like the Taylor polygraph. I'll
34:22
Speaker 1: tell you right now because I know I did not
34:24
Speaker 1: shoot any of those victims in there, but survivor Jakwan Johnson,
34:28
Speaker 1: just eighteen, then recovered from partial paralysis to testify against Taylor.
34:34
Speaker 1: Johnson saw what happened with his right eye. I still
34:37
Speaker 1: think about my friends all the time, and I gotta
34:41
Speaker 1: live with that for the rest of my life. All
34:43
Speaker 1: the employees at that Wendy's murdered for what the money
34:49
Speaker 1: in the register. As he heard there so often the
34:55
Speaker 1: perp when a store is robbed, it's familiar with the store.
35:01
Speaker 1: Everybody jump in. I'm saying more than one perp, and
35:04
Speaker 1: that they were familiar with the store. Now interesting, people
35:08
Speaker 1: come from all around to shoot at this range. Take
35:12
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut eight x eleven. Chief wit
35:16
Speaker 1: Luck says he considered the Hawks as dear friends. It's
35:19
Speaker 1: really hard. It's really hard tow coming here accepted. We
35:23
Speaker 1: can't can't say accept it's coming in to see what's
35:25
Speaker 1: going on. It's just it's it's awful, thankfully this town
35:29
Speaker 1: right here. Police say forty guns were stolen, and so
35:32
Speaker 1: was the DBR that held the security footage. The chief says,
35:35
Speaker 1: this makes solving the crime that much harder. The store
35:38
Speaker 1: has been here for a long time, the range has
35:40
Speaker 1: been here for a long time, and there's people from
35:42
Speaker 1: all around come shoot here. I mean it's just not
35:44
Speaker 1: people from Grantville, not people from Grantville. But locals are
35:49
Speaker 1: questioning if the perps were known to the victims. Take
35:53
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut one WSB. Like many people
35:57
Speaker 1: in this community, a lot of neighbors are starting to
35:59
Speaker 1: add ask questions, especially since this range sits so far
36:02
Speaker 1: off the road from this ridsey area. You can see
36:05
Speaker 1: that road and our vantage point. You can see how
36:07
Speaker 1: far the range sits back from that road. Many neighbors
36:11
Speaker 1: are starting to wonder if this crime, this murder was premeditated.
36:16
Speaker 1: Friends say seventy five year old Tommy Hawk loved his
36:19
Speaker 1: community and loved running the Lockstock and Barrel's Shooting Range
36:23
Speaker 1: and Grantville. It's dumbfounded it something like this happened. Marie
36:26
Speaker 1: and Ceslock says that in his twenty five years living
36:28
Speaker 1: in Grantville, a crime like this has never happened. He's
36:31
Speaker 1: been to the range several times. The severity of it,
36:35
Speaker 1: you know, three dads, they're just unheard up here. It
36:40
Speaker 1: sounded like something that stands out. Some criminals had to
36:43
Speaker 1: have been looking for that place. I would think justin
36:47
Speaker 1: Carter joining me WSBTV, describe how far off the road
36:51
Speaker 1: it is. Why would someone have to either know about
36:54
Speaker 1: it or be looking for it? Nancy, that is what
36:57
Speaker 1: a lot of neighbors are wondering. This is not a
37:00
Speaker 1: business that is you know, you can see from the
37:03
Speaker 1: from the road from the naked eye, you really have
37:05
Speaker 1: to be looking forward this building. I'd say it's maybe
37:08
Speaker 1: a few a few hundred yards from the main road
37:12
Speaker 1: on Handon Road in Grantville. So yeah, you cannot see
37:16
Speaker 1: it from the road. If I was driving down Bohndon
37:18
Speaker 1: Road in Grantville, would not be able to see it
37:21
Speaker 1: at all. James Shellner joining us on not only twenty
37:26
Speaker 1: seven years on Metro major case now lawyer, but had
37:30
Speaker 1: frequently been in the lock stock and barrel. What's your analysis?
37:34
Speaker 1: My analysis is exactly what Joe Scott said, exactly what
37:38
Speaker 1: warrant to have the other witnesses said or other ex
37:40
Speaker 1: personal talent said, and that is that the people who
37:43
Speaker 1: went in there went in with a sense of boldness,
37:46
Speaker 1: a sense of boldness. This crime didn't happen in sixty seconds,
37:51
Speaker 1: as Joe Scott pointed out, these if these people are
37:53
Speaker 1: in the same area, they were hurted in there. I
37:56
Speaker 1: do believe that somebody watched them, somebody assisted with getting
37:59
Speaker 1: the uns. You know, this is also if you think
38:02
Speaker 1: about it, people come there to shoot, and although it
38:04
Speaker 1: was close to closing time, if someone showed up to shoot,
38:07
Speaker 1: they're going to be armed. If someone is in the
38:09
Speaker 1: back shooting, they're going to be armed. The owner was armed.
38:13
Speaker 1: This is someone familiar with what was going on. They
38:16
Speaker 1: were familiar with the surveillance system, they were familiar with
38:19
Speaker 1: the guns, familiar with the owners. And this is someone
38:22
Speaker 1: who has a level of familiarity of Scott. As Joe
38:25
Speaker 1: Scott point out earlier, this is not a person who
38:27
Speaker 1: randomly came in that building and decided to rob it.
38:30
Speaker 1: This was coordinated and it was planned. There is a
38:33
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollar reward tipline eight eight eight two
38:39
Speaker 1: eight three eight four seven seven goodbye.