Latest / Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth / 169: Differentiate your product so prospects remember

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169: Differentiate your product so prospects remember · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Sales Bluebird Podcast, where we help cybersecurity companies grow sales faster.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you are a seller, marketer, leader, or founder, we give tips, tricks, experiences, examples, ideas, and inspiration from people who know a thing or ten about building great cybersecurity companies.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Andrew Monahan, and today we're talking about differentiation.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: According to Richard Steenan's latest security yearbook, there are literally 3,000 vendors in cybersecurity.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: 3,000.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you break it down as heated into different categories, for example, there's 404 in data security, there's 392 in network security, and even in something as mature and defined as email security, there's 80 vendors in email security.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a lot, right?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as a seller, the big question is how do you differentiate?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do you get people to remember why what you do is different and latch on to the important things that you want them to latch on to?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you as a seller are sitting there at the pointy end of the sphere.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're sitting one-on-one or in a small group with a prospect, and in that environment, you've got to be able to make the difference.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to be able to think about how you're going to communicate in a way that they're going to remember why what you're doing is different.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: You have to set up the differentiation so that uh it becomes part of the conversation, an important part of the conversation.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or sometimes what you have to do is respond to the question hey, you know, we know these guys, you know, Company X in this space as well.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: How are you different to them?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Very specific questions come out of it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: From my experience, I think that way too often the way that we handle these questions are very, very tactical.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the information is centered around speeds, feeds, features, capabilities, things like that, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Our reporting is better than their reporting.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or we have 55 checks and they have 10 checks, right?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Things like that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, anytime internally, when you say, Oh, we need a better answer, we need to better differentiate or compete against this company, the knee-jerk reaction is we need a battle card.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: The 911 goes off inside the company, let's let's update the battle card, let's create a new battle card.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what comes back is an exercise in how many words can we cram on one single side of a letter-sized piece of paper?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because, of course, the idea is that that's going to get printed out, laminated, and given to every salesperson.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it does seem like the people that produce battle cards feel the need to have as many boxes and words on that one side as they can possibly fit in.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, anytime when you have that much on there, the real powerful things get lost.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think my battle card is is definitely got its role.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: It contains often some really good information, but to be able to get to that level of detail, you're much further down the sales cycle than perhaps you are in the first meeting, the second meeting, the demo meeting, whatever it might be in an early stage.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: At that point, you don't have the time.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, the person you're talking to doesn't want the download for 15 minutes in all the different ways and things to they should be thinking about why you're different, right?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're looking for the 50 response.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: But what happens with the battle card is that we have to translate it into something that we can use as salespeople.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, what happens most of the time is that we take it, we remember a few things from it, and we reel them out as features and capabilities that we think we're better at.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it ends up being a real pissing match between us and them, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: They suck at this and we're really good at this, right?
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: It tends to be how it comes out, right?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the aha though, right?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is when we do that, what we're doing is completely missing two of the most powerful motivators for people to do anything different.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Two of the most powerful reasons for people to want to make a change.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say missing, it's not just that we're not doing it well, we're actually completely missing them when we get down to that level of it end up being a pissing match.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as an analogy, it's not like we're doing it with one arm tied behind our back.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we have both arms tied behind our back and we've got a gag in our mouth, and all we can do is communicate through blinking, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's essentially what we're doing when we're thinking about down to that detailed level and what's often comes out of a translated battle card.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So then the question is, well, what do we do?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what are these other two ways that we can use to differentiate?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: The way that I think about it is let's start with pain.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let's start with problems.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, any given person, any given organization latches on to problems in three ways, right?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: First one is external.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: These are the logical things.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the first level pain that we know about, you know, from you know endless sales trainings out there.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: We got something, it's expensive, it's slow, it's complicated, it's too hard, things like that, right?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: These are things that we express.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: The internal is how those things make us feel as people, our emotional reaction to these things.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's when we get fed up, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're frustrated, when we are uh held back, right?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: When the team is working nights and weekends and getting completely, you know, burnt out, right?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: These are internal manifestations of these problems.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the final one is philosophical, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the epic injustice.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've heard me talk about anything to do with telling stories or emotional ways to connect to people, you know, the epic injustice is a very powerful way to do that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So this is when you can say, look, we just shouldn't have to.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's plain wrong in this day and age that things work like this, right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when people latch onto that, it's very, very powerful.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: When they agree with that, it's very, very powerful.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you're probably sitting there at this point thinking, I'm not quite sure I get this, I'm not sure how this applies.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: How would I use this in my day-to-day selling activities?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about how to do this.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um, the way to do it actually is you start from the the top down, right?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: You start with philosophical, then you go internal, and then you go external.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna give you uh one, two, three, four examples.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: The first one I'm gonna take out of cybersecurity, uh, but something that we all probably intuitively kind of know a little bit about, which is maybe an Apple iPhone versus a Samsung Android phone, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that differences, let's say, between these two things is the uh safeness, let's say, of the Apple store, the the App Store versus the Android store, right?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, historically, I don't know how true it is these days, but certainly historically, the Android store was full of mess, right?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: There was very nefarious things in there.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas, you know, what Apple would do is say, look, you know, we've got something that uh we do a lot more checking and balancing on these apps before they actually go live, right?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say that's the point that we're we're trying to make with someone.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what you could do is just say, well, look, you know, we when it comes to apps in the app store, we check 55 things about each of them.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And in the Android store, they only check 10, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Factually true.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe someone might remember that or care about that, but it's not to my point before, you're not using um two of the main ways that people think about motivating and getting change to happen.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So if you put that in our structure of philosophical internal, external, what might this look like?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it might go something like this, right?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Look, they're both great phones, but we just believe, as Apple, that it's plain wrong that you have to be worried about whether an app is safe or if it's not safe.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at the end of the day, this is 2022 now, not 2012.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we want you to feel safe.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, we do a thorough review of each and every app and version of that before it goes on to the app store.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: There are actually 55 checks we do versus in the Android store, there's only 10.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: This means that you and your family are safe.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right, just to be clear here, I'm making some of these numbers up, right?
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to make a point.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Don't hold me to account and say, well, that's not right.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, all these examples don't only to, well, you know, some of your stuff isn't quite right.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I get it, it probably isn't, but I'm trying to make the point in terms of the structure.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if we look at this Apple iOS versus the Android, so we start off by saying, look, both great phones, but the first thing we talk about, philosophical argument, we just think it's plain wrong, right?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Plain wrong that you have to be worried about this.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is 2022, not 2012, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really great, powerful thing to do when you put the alternative approach back in the past, right?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is modern versus old.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we got down to internal, we say we want you to feel safe, right?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's the key bit about this.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: We want you and your family to feel safe.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then we still talk about the idea that these 55 checks versus 10, but we do it towards the end, right?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: And how we deliver on you feeling safe is that we do 55 checks versus Android only does 10.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you see the three-level structure right there.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move into an example in cybersecurity.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And this is going back maybe a few years when there was a market shift that happened from traditional endpoint protection into the new next generation endpoint protection, right?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, one of the drivers behind this was there was a lot of studies at the time, research said, you know, at the end of the day, these traditional companies with their endpoint tools are only really detecting at about 60% on average, right?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Despite what they say, you know, they're finding 60% of the malware that's thrown at them.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: So therefore, there needs to be a new way.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea of the new way was that that efficacy rate would go up to like 98% or something, right?
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the point.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: The point is that factually, in the new way of doing things, you'll get back to 98% versus what you're doing right now, which is 60%, right?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's the fact.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you turn this into something much more meaningful for someone using our structure?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It might go something like this.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: We believe that it's just ridiculous that in 2015, you are having to use technology that was built in the 90s to protect your endpoints.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: No wonder the efficacy of these legacy products is just so bad.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: We want you to spend less time cleaning up outbreaks and feel more confident in your security posture, which is why we built our product using modern approaches such as cloud, AI, and machine learning.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: This means that you can raise your detection rates back into the 98 to 99 percentile and have also had the tools to better respond to the much smaller amount of outbreaks you are going to have.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Again, don't hold me to the specifics around this, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Go with a structure, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we believe it's ridiculous.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's a powerful statement, right?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: We believe it's ridiculous that this is 2015 and you're using tools that were built, and you know, the philosophy behind them was from the 90s, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that time shift is very powerful.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what you're doing, no wonder the efficacy of these legacy processes is so bad.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is an important point, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: When every time you can say, look, it's not that these tools themselves are somehow terrible, right?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: They have lots of features.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's just they were built at a time when the computing world was very different, right?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they were great for that point in time, but things have moved on.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And what you need is something built for this point in time.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the comparison that we're making there, right?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get into the internal, we want you to feel confident in your security posture.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get into specifics who've built something that works a certain way that has these high detection rates, right?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one from Next Gen Endpoint.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Another area that's going through a lot of change right now, and long overdue, is security awareness training.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: I joined a company not, I don't know, four or five, six years ago now, maybe 15 through 18, I can't exactly remember when.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this security vendor, you know, you join the company, you have to go through the compliance stuff.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things, of course, is security awareness training.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they give you this, you know, hour-long computer-based training module thing with the dumbest, stupidest questions and situations in there.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to click your way through it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't, I suddenly didn't learn anything, right?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was an exercise of just clicking through and getting it getting it done.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it was such an old way to do things.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, therefore, this space is ripe for something that's new.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the logical external point is we want to reduce user-oriented or user source compromises by a significant amount.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just made up a number here, 45%, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, how might this go?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Might go something like this.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's plain wrong that in 2022 you have to educate your users with techniques that were frankly lame when they were created 20 years ago.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, no wonder security awareness training has such a bad rap with everybody.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, users deserve training that is useful, unobtrusive, just in time, and modern.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we've developed a browser plugin to advise users in real time whether what they're doing is dangerous and gives them quick tips so they learn when they need it most.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: It means that user click compromises are down by 45% in our customer base.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I'm completely made this up, so don't hold me to this.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, so start off, it's plain wrong again.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's plain wrong that in 2022 you have to use something that was created 20 years ago and it was lame 20 years ago.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people will just go, yeah, yeah, you're right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna defend that and say, oh no, it was cutting edge, right?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then no wonder security awareness training has such a bad rap.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: When it got to the emotional side, the internal, your users deserve, well, that's more philosophical, you deserve deserve training that it's useful, unobtrusive, just in time and modern, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they deserve something that's better.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve it, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's very powerful.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then it gets into you know what we actually did, project your plugin, this is how it works, and it means that compromises are down by 45%.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Structures there again, the internal was not so powerful in this one, but the philosophical and the external were both covered quite well.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this last example I'm gonna give you, I'm honestly feeling a bit nervous about saying this because I'm gonna name a company, and I don't want anyone to think in any way I'm trying to bash this company, all right?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that it's very topical right now.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got no insight beyond their website into how they do things.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So in many ways, I'm very unfairly maybe making a little bit some of this up, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully it's not too far off the mark.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm thinking about Wiz, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: First company, they had their press release, first company to get to 100 million ARR so quickly, 18 months to be in market.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Huge traction they're getting.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing things, a lot of things really, really well.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: They're good at what they do.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if you look at the cloud security market, right, I don't know how many companies there are, but I'm gonna bet there's probably more than 50, I don't know, stretching out to 100, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is a market full of submarkets and a lot of uh overlapping between the submarkets inside cloud security.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was anyone in this space, I'd be thinking about, well, how do I compete to whiz against Wiz?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm gonna guess that in a lot of early stage meetings, I'm gonna get asked the question, how are you different to Wiz?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got to have a good way to answer that question.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I completely made up a company to compete with Wiz.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And their thing is the company I made up is they're thinking about remediation.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Their strong point, their differentiation is all about how they handle remediation once uh they've found vulnerabilities and misconfigurations, right?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they believe this is their strong point.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So this is how I might handle.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you're asked the question, you know, you're halfway through that first meeting and they say, you know, we've been looking at cloud security for a while.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: The one obviously that we looked at already is Wiz.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, how are you different to Wiz?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I might do it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll say, you know, when I think of Wiz, I think of a really, really good cloud security visibility tool.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: They completely correct that, and that's what people really like and what they do.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: We just have a very different view on what organizations will really get the most value from, giving you visibilities like giving you the easy button to get more work.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you find a whole bunch of vulnerabilities and misconfigurations, and you find them in a really short period of time, then what?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like going back 20 years to the vulnerability scanners in the on-prem world in 2002.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we believe you should find vulnerabilities quickly too, but also believe you deserve to have the best and most powerful remediation process.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So your team is not overloaded with work and frustrated that they can't seem to make much headway with the backlog.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve to be able to show significant progress in a short amount of time with what matters most, which is reducing risk and without having to ask for more headcount.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Our customers like we have 145 workflow automations and integrations that we provide them.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just security operations that is able to do this, but also developers and also the application owners as well.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, completely made out.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know this company exists.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you see where I was going there, right?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, if they're really good at visibility, you probably don't want to compete head on on visibility, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you want to find what you're strongest at and what your real value is.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of in this example, you put visibility into the corner a little bit.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's cool and all, but it's not the real problem.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: We have, and you know how do I do that?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: We said we have a very different view on what organizations will get most value from.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a viewpoint that we think is very different.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right, and we put the visibility thing in the corner.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, this can apply to a whole bunch of things in security, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Going back to you know, Casby's, for example, right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: Casby's first CASBY's that started to get some traction were based on visibility.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: They would show you all the apps you didn't know about that were running inside the organization, but then they didn't at the gate have a great way to go fix it, right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, well, here's the visibility.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Go figure it out yourself.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: This happened in the DLP world as well, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this common thing about visibility first is very common.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's worked over the years to start categories off, but it always gets to that point about, well, okay, then what?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if I was in the cloud security space, I'd be thinking about how I compete with, well, then what, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: If I've got something that's stronger.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: We go into the external ones here, you know, backlogs, things like that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're frustrated.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, use these kind of internal words, and then finally it came down to, you know, we've got 145 uh workflows and integrations, right?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's even a thing, but um so that's why I created for this example.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: We got this whole thing tracked, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: So your team doesn't have to scratch their heads and figure out what to do.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: They just have to start, you know, working through the things we've already set up for you.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's nice examples right there.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So for examples, please, please, please don't read too much into the specifics of these.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was just trying to make it real for you so you can see how the structure will work.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: When I've worked with teams on this before, uh, the one thing that we end up talking a little bit about is this philosophical argument, right?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think it can be a little bit more abstract.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there's certain ways I think to think about it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is some people you taught to may disagree with you, and you should be okay with that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now, look at our examples, I think you'll find few people that will disagree that the old CBT-based security awareness training is terrible, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think people will say, yeah, right.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you'll find people that just they'll clearly think that different things than you do.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you should be okay with that, right?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because they might never buy from you because they just believe this other way is the way that things should be done, right?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So in some ways, it's a very polarizing statement to get them to think about do they wanted the red pill or the blue pill, right?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if they like your blue pill, then that's good.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you like the red pill, well, you haven't wasted much time with them, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the philosophical statement should be tried uh tied to your strongest differentiation.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be the marginal gain in some feature that does something a little bit better, right?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta be very zeroed in on what you do best and do best by quite a bit, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's where it's gonna have the most power.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things you'll also notice that in all these examples is I stepped back, I guess except for the the Android one, I stepped back into the abstract, right?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't I didn't go into specific this competitor, that competitor.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even in the the last one around cloud security, what I did is I said, when I think about Wiz, I think my great cloud security visibility tool.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I immediately put it in the bucket of visibility tools.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then what I'm doing is comparing against visibility tools.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's just a good hygiene to do.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Always advocate for approaches, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Comparing categories, comparing approaches, things like that, as opposed to getting sucked into naming specific competitors.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So slam the old approach, slam the old way, slam the traditional way, slam the legacy way.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't actually name the competitor that you want to, or perhaps even they've asked about.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the final thing I'll say about this is that I often hear from people, you know, I don't know if I, as a seller, should be having these thoughts, these uh statements that's so powerful, right?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is something our founder should be saying.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: This is someone, I don't know, C level in our company should be saying.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: They've got the gravitas, the title, the whatever it might be to pull this off.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you find yourself thinking like that, you just have to recognize that your mindset is holding you back.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: All right, because the alternative is you go back to the lame ways to do this.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes very bland, it becomes undifferentiated, it becomes way too just logical, and it's not something people remember.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you find yourself doing that, the question is, well, how do I do more of this, more like this, as opposed to just not do it at all, because I'm not comfortable doing it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather you did this approach, but maybe watered it down 10% than not doing it at all.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna be the challenge for yourself, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to get this down pat.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to really be good at this, I've got to understand the nuances.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: So when I do this in my style, using the way that I communicate, it is powerful, right?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: I should be okay with that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I should be okay with someone to sit there and go, I think you're wrong.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because then your nice question is, you know, tell me more, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think that, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So just recognize that there's gonna be, you know, people in your team or maybe you yourself who just don't feel comfortable with this type of quite bold approach.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Get over it, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Think about, well, differentiation is hard.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I need to make these changes to make a difference.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: So by doing it this way around, by thinking about differentiation like this, you tap into firstly, someone's beliefs and philosophies.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you want them to join a movement to right a wrong.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want them to think I'm just buying software from another shitty vendor, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And too often that's what it is, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good enough.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, yeah, I'll kind of hold my nose and do it this way, or what this company might be, right?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: If someone believes in your philosophy or wants to join your movement, it is very powerful.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Just a few episodes ago, I had Andy Raskin on the podcast.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Andy is the OG, the pioneer of strategic narrative, and he talked about that, about how powerful it is when someone joins a movement as opposed to just buying some software.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the second thing I'll say about this approach that we're missing right now is we're tapping into their internal motivations to resolve their frustrations, to not being overloaded, not being fed up, right?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: The things that get to their gut, they just can't stand.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's gonna you tap into as well.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So this is not easy to take on, but I really encourage you to do that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you have experiences, you know, reach out to me.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear examples where you've done this and made a difference.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Let me know what's worked for you.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, uh, I'll see you next time.