Latest / The Chris and Mike Show / #165 - Matt Melvin - Author

Transcript

#165 - Matt Melvin - Author · The Chris and Mike Show

1:03
Yeah, except the boys and girls. This is the Chris and Mike.
1:06
So I'm Chris, he's Mike. And Jose with us is Matt Melvin.
1:10
Should we call you Eminem for short, or is that just you get
1:13
that all the time? I don't get it all the time, but
1:16
you can identify me as that. We'll just call you Matt man
1:20
too, buddy. Oh, that's right.
1:22
MM Michaels and Matt Melvin. I'm I'm, I'm the oddball here.
1:25
Just the CD man. What's up with that?
1:31
So welcome to the show, Matt. How are you today?
1:34
I'm well, how are. You welcome.
1:35
Matt, man, we're good now. Better now.
1:38
Your, your story's an interesting 1.
1:40
So we're just going to let you kind of, you know, lay some
1:43
background. You were, you were in prison for
1:46
a while. I did 2 stints in prison.
1:49
Two stints in prison. 1004 and the second was in 2016.
1:53
So walk us up. What led to the?
1:55
First one, yeah. What led to the first one?
1:57
I worked at a car dealership, Freedom Nissan on Shelburne Rd.
2:00
in South Burlington, Vt. What year?
2:03
2004. Yeah, we, we're going to, we're
2:05
going to make you kind of kind of want to, we want you to lead
2:08
us up into it like how life was going.
2:09
If you were involved in any chaos, if you're, you know,
2:12
involved with, you know, drugs, all that kind of stuff, you know
2:15
what, what, what we want the whole picture.
2:17
Comfortable with the back. Sure, we are true, true because
2:20
not everybody, not everybody's going to understand certain
2:24
things that you talk about. So we want to make sure we, we
2:25
cover all the bases with your story because we actually, you
2:28
know, obviously we want to share and get your point across and
2:30
there's a message I'm sure at some point in time here that
2:32
that you're going to want to convey.
2:34
So, so like Mike said, OK, so back in 2004.
2:38
Chris Dunham. What's that, Mike?
2:40
Do me a favor. Sure.
2:42
Oh, it just stopped. I was going to have you tilt
2:44
your camera down a hair. My camera.
2:47
The ghost was at it again. I was going.
2:48
To have. Oh, really?
2:50
Oh, weird. OK.
2:51
I'm sorry. Yeah.
2:54
So if you want to start there, Matt, just lead us up into how
2:57
you ended up in prison the first time.
3:00
Absolutely. I was just going to backtrack a
3:04
little bit. Yeah, that's cool.
3:06
The stealing the car wasn't my first brush with the law.
3:13
There were other instances walking out of restaurants
3:16
without paying, driving off without paying for gas.
3:19
Those were speeding, driving 130 on the highway.
3:24
Wow. I don't believe that most people
3:31
just one day commit a higher level crime.
3:38
It's, it starts with smaller level crime and the person for
3:44
me, like it's a, it's a, it's a threat like driving 130, it's a
3:49
rush. Driving off without paying for
3:51
gas, it's a rush, you know, not rocking out of a restaurant
3:55
without paying. They're all rushes.
3:57
Get it? So as a man, we, we like that
4:00
adrenaline rush. Much like when you guys are
4:03
playing that heavy music, I'm sure you get out of a rush too.
4:06
100% Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had gotten away with it.
4:12
So, you know, go bigger off, go home.
4:15
I guess the frame of mind and I really had anger issues, hatred
4:25
issues, frustration issues that hadn't been addressed properly.
4:29
I was being bullied, feeling like an outcast.
4:36
And then I come to work at this car dealership.
4:40
They mistreat me. Oh, you were working at the
4:43
dealership? Yeah, OK.
4:45
I missed that part, I'm sorry. So how?
4:46
How are they mistreating you? What were they doing?
4:49
Other guys were jumping in in front of me.
4:51
You know, it's round Robin where everybody gets their chance.
4:55
Other guys were jumping up in front, you know it's.
4:57
OK. The the car dealership is a very
5:01
passive aggressive type of mentality and if you're.
5:05
Not sold instruments. So I know that the Commission
5:08
business can be rough when you're committing with competing
5:10
with other people. For sure it gets quick and I
5:13
know exactly what you're talking.
5:14
About 10 other people at A at a dealership here.
5:18
Some of the dealerships you might be competing against 2025
5:21
other men and women. Sure.
5:23
Yeah, yeah. So I, I, you know, jumped in the
5:31
gauntlet and tried to sell one of their cars because they
5:34
didn't pay me my commissions. That was in 2004.
5:38
I got caught. Oh, how soon after?
5:43
Hours. Literally it was, I mean, they
5:47
were tracking me that they knew what was going on.
5:51
It was not. I mean, the vehicles are tracked
5:57
heavily. I mean it.
5:58
They're even tracked much more heavily today than they were 21
6:02
years ago. That's how GPS knows how to tell
6:05
you where to go. Right.
6:06
Oh yeah. They know where you're at too.
6:09
Right at all given times. OK, so so the vehicle that you
6:11
stole, do you just drive it off a lot and sell it?
6:14
You were selling to a a second party like 1/3.
6:17
Party sell it to another car dealership.
6:19
Oh no. That wasn't very smart, man.
6:23
OK, real, real quick. Where was your mindset in that?
6:26
Because instantly I'm like I would not have done that.
6:30
Yeah, right, right. Walk me through that.
6:33
Yeah. I thought I could get away with
6:36
it. I had gotten away with.
6:37
How old were you when this happened?
6:40
I was 23. OK, that's how old are you now?
6:44
I am 44. OK, OK, that explains a lot
6:47
because your frontal cortex is not fully formed until you're
6:50
25, so I can forgive some of this.
6:53
Yeah. I get it now.
6:54
And just so you know it, it isn't ironic that in the current
7:01
judicial system. OK.
7:03
Folks that commit crimes before 25 a lot of times are granted
7:08
the ability to have their crimes committed up until the age of 25
7:13
expunged after that there and and I should preface that that
7:19
is for nonviolent offenders. OK, OK.
7:22
It's not, you know, if you commit murder at 23, they don't
7:26
excuse it. So I I just want not.
7:31
It's not by coincidence that this stuff happens.
7:33
OK. OK.
7:34
That's good to know. That's interesting.
7:35
I didn't know that. So they sent you to prison on
7:37
your first offence? Or had you been in jail before,
7:40
so to speak? Jail.
7:42
OK, never. And they sent you to prison for
7:46
your first offence. Yeah.
7:47
So you get arrested that night. What happens from that point
7:50
forward? I did 18 months.
7:54
Wow. So you went in front of the
7:55
judge and he just gave me a year and a half just straight up,
7:58
this is going to be your sentence.
7:59
It's Jeffrey. Crawford, Judge in the federal
8:02
federal case. Thanks, Jeffrey.
8:04
Wow. Right.
8:05
And at that time, the state had a mental health corps.
8:10
But OK. Jeffrey Crawford, the judge, and
8:12
Bob Wolford both decided I didn't meet the criteria to go
8:16
through the mental health court, even though I'd seen about 2530
8:19
therapists. Oh my, so I read some of your
8:23
back story when you submitted. I love that now.
8:26
Yeah, that was cool, Yeah. I agree with you and I know
8:29
you're going to get to this, but instantly I got rage because
8:33
you're 23 years old, you'd never been in trouble with the law.
8:37
Granted you Grand Theft, you stole a car, but nobody died.
8:41
There's murderers, serial killers, rapists, there's all
8:45
kinds of violent criminals, which we just discussed.
8:50
So explain the mental health option that your state had that
8:55
they chose not to use. In Vermont, they have a mental
9:01
health court where a defendant like myself can go through.
9:07
It's similar to drug court, except there's not the testing,
9:11
you know, there's not the drug testing, but there is the mental
9:16
health therapy component to. That is it outpatient or is it
9:21
someplace you'd go to serve a sentence like you would in a
9:24
prison? That's a good question.
9:26
No, all of, I mean, you come to court on a weekly basis to, to
9:31
check in, make sure that the offender myself or who, whomever
9:36
has not committed another crime. And provided that you don't pick
9:42
up any other crimes and you're doing what you're supposed to be
9:46
doing, mental health counseling, then as soon as it's done, as
9:54
soon as then your record is expunged.
9:58
So you're being heavily monitored and you probably have
10:00
to go through X amount of classes and if you miss one deal
10:04
you're in prison, right? I I don't want to speculate on
10:09
something that I don't know. I'm guessing that's probably how
10:12
it works. I would guess because in drug if
10:15
you test positive once you're done.
10:19
Yep. Yeah.
10:23
So what kind of prison did they send you to in lieu of this
10:27
better option? 2 Vermont prisons Which Vermont
10:32
prison is not what federal prison is like?
10:38
So you need a. Little bit of a go ahead.
10:43
I don't know if I'd say Country Club, but somewhere in between.
10:46
It's certainly not a. The Vermont one.
10:49
Yes. OK, it's.
10:51
It's a lot better than some of the other prisons in other
10:56
states that I've seen in my when I did my 18 months the second
11:00
time in in federal prison. OK, we had a we had a guy on a
11:07
couple weeks ago that was in prison a couple times.
11:10
We had some fun with him. As far as as far as the the into
11:16
what? I don't know what the what's the
11:18
word? I'm looking for Mike.
11:19
The imaginative. The imaginative way.
11:21
Is that right? The imaginative way They made
11:22
food like ramen burritos. Are you familiar with ramen
11:25
burritos? I'm familiar with very strange
11:29
things that. Tell us about some because we
11:32
were fascinated with that. We didn't eat any of it.
11:35
OK, I wouldn't. I wouldn't think I would eat it
11:38
any. So prison food's nasty, right?
11:40
Thing you don't know what's else is in it that they're not
11:44
telling you about? The prison food are the ones
11:47
that are making the homemade food the.
11:49
Inmates that are making the food.
11:51
In the pots. OK.
11:53
Yeah, I could see that. And Don seemed like that was his
11:55
cell mate, right? And they?
11:57
Were pretty tight. Yeah, so he trusted the guy, I
11:59
think. That's why they were probably
12:00
making it together, you know? Yeah.
12:03
How long were you in? When?
12:04
So when you're in prison, was it were you, was it kind of like a,
12:07
a, a white collar type prison to where you had, you know, you,
12:11
you weren't OK, so you were locked.
12:12
White collar. OK, No, this is everybody and
12:15
their brother. You're in there with violent
12:17
criminals. OK.
12:19
Absolutely no question. General. 23 hours a day
12:21
lockdown, OK, which? Yeah, 23 hours a day lockdown
12:24
type thing like in your cell or how was that?
12:28
The first time, no OK I was pretty much allowed in general
12:33
population. They tried putting me in the
12:35
mental health unit. Unfortunately, the mental health
12:38
units usually turn out to be the sex offender unit.
12:42
Oh. Oh, really?
12:45
Yes. Because is that just because
12:47
their attorneys kind of spin it? Oh, he's, he's not competent.
12:50
Because for him to do that type of thing, he's got to be wacky.
12:53
Yes. Well, that's bullshit.
12:56
So, and I've seen this both in Vermont and then in the federal
13:01
system that when I would get into mental health unit, I would
13:06
be surrounded by a whole bunch of white old guys that were sex
13:11
offenders and then and then I would be labeled as a sex
13:14
offender and. Then I would be coming.
13:16
Oh oh fuck that sucks man. That's terrible.
13:24
So did you did were you constantly kind of looking over
13:26
your shoulder because it just I? Was.
13:28
Absolutely. Yeah.
13:29
Wow. So.
13:30
You ended up guilty by association.
13:34
Yes. But you weren't associated.
13:36
That's just how it looked to them.
13:38
And to do do with them? Absolutely.
13:40
Of course. Despicable.
13:41
Yeah, that's awful, man. So how long of your sentence did
13:46
you have to endure that kind of terror in your mind every day?
13:52
A good portion of it. That sucks dude.
13:56
Yeah. That is, yeah, that could break
13:59
a person. Yeah.
14:01
And how and and this, how long was this stint, this initial
14:03
stint in 2418 months? That was 18 months.
14:06
And then the second time was 18 months.
14:08
Same Judge Jeffrey Crawford in both the state and the federal.
14:12
Yeah, I, I don't, I don't think you this would ever happen in
14:16
any other state. Is that for just like you?
14:20
Or me state. Did did Jeffrey just not like
14:22
you? Yeah, what was Jeffrey's deal?
14:28
Was he old? He was old, yes, he was a very
14:34
individual. I'll never forget what he
14:37
sentenced me the second time, he said, Mr. Melvin, if you ever
14:40
see me on Church St. which is this outdoor shopping place,
14:46
feel free to come up and shake my hand.
14:49
And I thought to myself, first of all, you would probably never
14:53
be on Church St. That's like Bernie Sanders
14:55
saying, if you ever see me, you want me to shake my hand.
14:59
Well, it wouldn't be to shake your hand.
15:02
Yeah, fuck you, Jeffrey. Wow.
15:06
And I only ask because he's old before everybody crucifies me
15:09
for that because I had to go to court for two sets of tickets
15:13
that I got for no insurance and no registration.
15:15
And this guy, and without saying the words, basically told me if
15:20
he could lock me away, he would. That's how seriously he took my
15:24
offense because apparently I was flippant about the way I was
15:29
acting in court. You know, he was, he was about
15:33
89 years old. And he's read me the riot act
15:36
over a couple traffic citations, basically because they were two
15:40
weeks apart, right? That's why I'm asking that
15:42
question, because he was a crotchety old man and that's the
15:44
way your guy sounded. He was, but not to mention that
15:51
he, you know, had gotten into his position by convictions.
15:59
I mean, that's how people, judges, lawyers, cops move up
16:04
within their cults is by convictions.
16:07
Yeah. That's a true story.
16:10
Yeah. Oh yeah.
16:11
It's a. Right, so he and so he moved up
16:13
that ladder. Yeah, he had.
16:15
He had gotten nominated 2 years ago, two years before that by
16:20
drunk former Senator Patrick Leahy.
16:28
Wow, man, now how long was the stint?
16:32
How did you end up in federal prison?
16:35
Yeah. That's a good question. 2009 I
16:38
couldn't pass a background check.
16:41
I used other people's information to try to get work.
16:46
I did the work, but I just used other people's Social Security
16:50
card and driver's license. The government pursued me for
16:54
six years. Even a fugitive limitations that
16:59
runs out of five. They went to 10 different grand
17:04
juries, spent about a half, $1,000,000.
17:07
Wow. I only got a grand jury
17:09
indictment now. You have to remember that a
17:11
grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, and a grand jury has a
17:14
in the in the in the federal system, there's a 96% conviction
17:18
rate. Really.
17:21
Wow. That's insane.
17:22
So you have to have like, straight up like.
17:25
So how did OJ get it off man? He had a lot of money and good
17:29
lawyers. What's supposed to say?
17:31
Yeah, OK, yeah, you got to. You got to have the money.
17:33
You got to have the pockets. Wow, 96% so even if even if you
17:38
had. But J.
17:40
Cole was in trouble in the state, not the feds.
17:42
Oh, I got, I got you. Oh, so you why were you, why
17:45
were you in trouble with the feds?
17:46
Because of the using other people's Social Security cards
17:48
and stuff. They charged me with aggravated
17:51
identity theft and money launder.
17:53
Across state lines because that's the only way feds can get
17:56
involved. I guess.
18:00
I. I I don't know.
18:01
Probably because you were paying into the Social Security system.
18:04
I'm guessing that's why. They got involved.
18:07
What's Yeah, Social Security? Medicare theft, man.
18:11
Yeah. How many times did you do it?
18:13
Like how many identities did they claim that?
18:16
A fair number. OK, wow.
18:18
But you have to remember I was always doing the work.
18:21
Yeah. And my attorney who was a
18:23
private attorney, Paul Volk, I've been practicing defense
18:28
lawyer for 35 years. He'd never seen a case where a
18:32
defendant was so brutally gone after when there was no victim
18:38
loss and there was no victim impact statement at sentencing.
18:44
Because that is correct. In a fraud case, there is loss.
18:48
There's a significant amount of loss.
18:51
Yeah, nobody showed up and said Matt screwed me out of XY and Z,
18:56
right? There was nobody there.
18:57
What? Even what and the the
19:01
prosecutor, Michael Drescher. Well, guess what he's doing
19:04
today. He's now the US Attorney for the
19:06
state of Vermont. He didn't give me a chance.
19:08
I wanted to say he's a judge or a United States something or
19:12
other. Let me backtrack a little bit
19:14
about that. Michael Drescher was originally
19:17
assigned to the case. He then assigned somebody else
19:20
and then he came back and I, I can't remember the lawyer's name
19:26
who was in between it. It's, it's irrelevant.
19:28
It doesn't really matter. But again, you have to
19:30
understand this is not normal. The way things work normally,
19:35
whoever's assigned the case is that on the case for the entire
19:38
time. Wow so where did they send you
19:44
this insane man? 10 different institutions. 10.
19:48
Hell, what to do with me? I wrote hundreds and hundreds of
19:52
grievances, which is the complaint system.
19:57
I was raped. The garden tried to say to the
20:02
guards that I was. I tried to proposition that and
20:05
this. Happened when you went to
20:06
federal prison. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but
20:08
Brooklyn. Happened.
20:10
Wow. So you had none of these
20:11
problems in the state other than they associated you with
20:15
something you weren't. Correct.
20:18
The only issue I had in the state was they put me in the
20:23
mental health unit and I got identified as a sex offender.
20:26
Sure I was not. I was only at I.
20:30
So let me let me backtrack one second.
20:33
I was assaulted very early on because I was in a dormitory
20:39
type unit in the gym in Chittenden County.
20:43
Ohio, OK. That was before you went to
20:47
prison though, right? But other than that, there were
20:51
it. It was not even close to what it
20:53
was in the federal system. So what happened when you got
20:57
there? Where was the 1st place that
20:59
they sent you and did it happen there or?
21:02
The first place I went was Saint Albans.
21:05
Which is. In Vermont.
21:08
OK. Because I was still going to
21:10
court. Sure.
21:16
And the judge was Jeffrey Crawford, and he was based out
21:19
of Rutland. So they had to move me.
21:21
They kept moving me from part of the reason I was moved so much
21:27
in the beginning was because I had to go to court.
21:29
So they had to move me to Rutland, which was closer to
21:33
where Jeffrey Crawford was the judge.
21:36
See here's how it works when the Magistrate Judge dictates who
21:41
what judge will be assigned the case.
21:44
OK, a Magistrate Judge handles the arraignments.
21:47
Gotcha. And wherever that judge is now,
21:50
in Vermont, currently there's only two places that federal
21:54
judges set. Burlington, which is where
21:57
pretty much where I live, and Rutland, which is 2 hours South
22:00
of the year. Now in most states, there's more
22:02
than that. There's more than just one or
22:06
two federal courthouses. Right.
22:15
Wow, that's crazy. So your terror started happening
22:23
there? My terror started in Saint
22:29
Albans, yes, because I was writing a lot of grievances.
22:35
I wasn't really fitting into the unit.
22:39
I was, I was having problems again, I was targeted.
22:44
You know, I'm gay, man. Come into the prison.
22:47
They don't know who this guy is. And immediately people assume,
22:53
make assumptions because I'm not a drug dealer.
22:56
And, and if you're not in that cult club, whatever you want to
23:01
call it, they identify you. You're not a gang member.
23:04
You're not a Skinhead, you're not, you're nothing, right?
23:08
You don't identify. OK, so because of that.
23:11
And they just. Right.
23:13
So then they create their own label and then so because you
23:16
were were not those things, is that how they decided that you
23:19
were a pedophile? Yes, but I, I, I, I find it
23:24
amazing. Here's why.
23:26
Because all somebody needs to know is your first and last
23:29
name. They can then get on the
23:31
telephone and say to their wife, look up this guy and it's very
23:36
clear if you look up my name that I have absolutely zero sex
23:40
offenses. Yeah.
23:42
Here's the thing, it's not there's no amusement If the
23:47
guy's a white collar crime like there's it's not fun.
23:52
Yeah, we label this guy as a sex offender now.
23:55
Now there's, now we could play some games.
23:57
Now it's fun. So that's why I believe I was
24:00
targeted. They don't care about the truth,
24:02
they just a. Lot of these guys are are going
24:04
to be in there for the rest of their life.
24:06
Sure. Yeah.
24:07
So they're just creating nothing.
24:08
To lose well. Why not?
24:09
What else do they have to do? Agree.
24:11
I just want people to understand their mindset towards you and
24:16
that you have no way of saying, hey, I, I didn't do this,
24:19
fellas, you know, you can't talk to somebody in prison like that.
24:22
These guys don't give a fuck. They killed people, they raped
24:25
people, they did whatever. You know, they're violent
24:27
people. They don't care.
24:30
Yeah, there's no look at it this way.
24:34
It's like walking up to a protester that's protesting
24:40
against Donald Trump. There's just no common sense.
24:45
They don't even know what they're standing for.
24:48
Right. And you for surely couldn't say,
24:50
hey, let me tell you why you're wrong.
24:54
But why would you argue with somebody that has no no morals?
24:59
No. I agree with you.
25:01
So with the with so you're, you're targeted, which is
25:04
horrific and you don't fit in in this unit.
25:09
So then you have the prison guards themselves.
25:12
Obviously they're no ally because you're a prisoner and
25:15
their prison guard are do everything you see on TV.
25:20
What not you know, the prison guard zone.
25:23
I was portrayed in the in the in the in the most gracious light,
25:28
right. So is is is there any solace if
25:32
you're being cornered or you know you're being followed?
25:35
Can you were you able to go to guard and say, hey, this is
25:37
what's going on? Or did it just brush you off,
25:39
get get go back to brush the? Long off.
25:42
Just. Like I was writing a lot of
25:43
grievances and when you can write a lot of grievances and
25:46
write you're, you're putting up a target on your back.
25:50
OK, gotcha. But listen, I was held
25:54
accountable for my actions. I'm going to hold other people
25:56
accountable for their actions. It's no different than when I'm
25:59
identifying people in my book. There were a lot of people who
26:02
said, I don't think you should be labeling right using sitting.
26:08
And Jeffrey Crawford is still a sitting judge.
26:11
I'm Treasurer, is the US Attorney currently.
26:16
Let me ask you this real quick, man.
26:17
Insured from the IRS is still there, my child from Secret
26:21
Service, they're all there. I don't like all of that.
26:24
Let me ask you this, just out of curiosity, and this is just my
26:27
own ignorance. Why do the guards care that
26:30
you're right? Are you writing them against
26:32
them? The grievances.
26:33
Yes, because they're not anything.
26:36
OK, OK. I wanted to know why the guards
26:38
weren't on your side. Yeah.
26:41
So when you got raped, you obviously grievance that like
26:44
brought everybody's attention and nobody did anything.
26:47
No, they didn't do anything. In fact, when I got out and I
26:49
tried to hold them accountable, they're like, we don't know.
26:51
It never happened. OK, then let me ask you the
26:53
question this way. If you win that grievance, does
26:57
do one of them get in trouble? Like are they reprimanded
27:01
because they didn't protect you? The.
27:03
Inmate winning a grievance, just like I've never heard of an
27:08
inmate winning when he's written a disciplinary report.
27:12
But is that's. My question though, do you know
27:15
that is there a consequence to them?
27:18
No, there's not. No, no.
27:21
Wow. So now they're assholes on the
27:23
other side. Yes.
27:26
Because they just figured you're an inmate, you fucked up.
27:28
We don't, you know, we're just being paid what, however many
27:31
dollars an hour to watch your ass.
27:33
Yep. And you're stirring the pot, so
27:37
you're a troublemaker. So we're not going to we're
27:40
going to turn a blind eye to anything you say and you and so
27:44
of that. 1st a lot of men and women that become prison guards
27:49
do the same because get get into that position because they want
27:54
to wield power over another person no different than police
27:58
officers which is the biggest cult in America.
28:00
Sure, you're going to have that apples everywhere you.
28:03
Go Yeah, yeah, It's, it's that I've heard over over my lifetime
28:06
that, you know, most of the I don't, I don't, I don't know,
28:10
percentage. And I'm not going to sit here
28:11
bash cops because that's not good for anybody.
28:13
But a high a percentage of those that go into law enforcement
28:17
were bullied as a child. And then when they grow up,
28:19
they're all big and powerful. Now they they want a position of
28:21
power so then they can be the bully themselves.
28:24
I would look at it from this direction.
28:27
I, I think for a lot of years I thought like you did, I think
28:32
it's more that there's very few bad apples, but they're so
28:37
magnified because nobody talks about the police officers that
28:40
do a good job every. Day, that's true.
28:43
You don't say that. OK?
28:44
Say there's twenty officers on a force and one of them is bad.
28:47
We only know what we don't say. Hey, the 19 guys today they
28:52
saved an old woman from dying of a heart attack.
28:54
They pulled a baby out of a burning house.
28:56
They, you know, but that one guy, he picked this girl up and
29:01
he took her and raped her because he was a cop, right?
29:03
That's the guy we're going to hear about.
29:05
Yeah, we're hearing about. The.
29:07
Small percentage of guards from Matt.
29:10
They're out there, but you and I both know if you put 100 people
29:14
in a room, what are the odds one of them is either an asshole or
29:18
a complete moron? Oh, absolutely, 100 and we
29:21
right. And we had and, and just to
29:23
advocate for the prison guard. So we had a prison guard on the
29:25
show. That's why I want to make sure.
29:27
Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure Matt encountered
29:29
some good ones out there, but the bad ones made it so horrible
29:33
for you that that's it affected your life in such a negative
29:36
way. And I can understand that.
29:38
Believe me when I say my heart goes out to you for that.
29:43
I just want to make it clear that we're not bashing all
29:46
police officers. Yeah, no, no bashing all but
29:49
those few that are that are so bad it just gets magnified.
29:53
Does that make sense? Yes.
29:55
Yeah. Agreed.
29:56
Agreed. 100% agreed. Yeah, yeah.
30:00
That's OK. So where did you go from?
30:02
Now you're in Vermont. You went to nine other places
30:04
after that. How did that happen?
30:07
I was writing a lot of grievances.
30:09
They didn't know what to do with me.
30:12
So they just kicked you from one federal prison to another,
30:15
correct? Made you somebody else's
30:17
problem, right? For how?
30:20
Long. 18 months. 18 months. Oh, you did 218 months stents
30:23
correct. OK.
30:25
So. So 9 prisons in 18 months, 10
30:29
for the first stent for the first stent for your first
30:33
eighteen OK with second stent. How about the first stent when
30:37
you're in for 18 months? That was Allstate Prison in
30:39
Vermont, right? OK, OK, OK.
30:43
So you had more, you had more problems, it sounds like in the
30:46
second time around than you did the first time.
30:48
Oh yeah, a lot more problems. I mean.
30:50
You know, and when I say 18 months, I should just preface
30:54
change one thing I did a year and a half and a halfway house.
30:58
So it's about 16 1/2 months in federal prison and then a month
31:03
and a half and a halfway house. Everybody, every inmate that
31:08
goes through the federal system has to go to a halfway house.
31:11
And the time that that inmate does at a halfway house is all
31:15
based on the sentence. So 18 months, very short time,
31:19
10 years. They're going to be there for a
31:21
couple of years before they actually before then, then
31:24
they're released out to the streets.
31:28
Right. And the halfway house.
31:29
Is brutal too. So let's just say it's a racket
31:32
on its own right it? Was brutal.
31:33
There was no solace for me. Right.
31:36
Why? Yeah, that's, yeah, I've, I've
31:38
haven't personally had experiences with that, but I
31:40
have, I have someone I know that when they're going through rehab
31:44
and stuff and drug rehab, things like that, once they got out of
31:47
the facilities, they had to go to type group home, halfway
31:49
house, whatever. And it was just this a shit
31:51
show. So I can only imagine it being
31:53
even more so with convicted felons, right?
31:57
Because then again, again, in that, in that, that geography
32:01
for that, that halfway house, it's everybody, right?
32:04
It's not just it's there's no you're.
32:07
Not going to have a excuse me? Somebody that's.
32:09
In prison for life is not going to.
32:11
Sure, yeah, but you? Have all sorts of people.
32:15
It's also. Going to have you.
32:16
Know it's obviously all men, there's no women, but there's
32:20
maybe women that are working there.
32:24
You just shouldn't have the violent offenders and stuff
32:25
because it does. Absolutely.
32:26
No question. Yeah, yeah, yes.
32:28
When I was at the halfway house, there was a guy that went out to
32:32
work and he when he came back, he tried to sneak in a cell
32:36
phone. So what happened was the US
32:39
Marshals ended up coming and still searching everybody.
32:42
Oh. No.
32:43
The The Halfway House is still under the auspice of the US
32:48
Marshals the US. Marshals, I didn't know that.
32:51
Because he's a federal prisoner still.
32:53
Right. OK, OK.
32:55
So how many people are in this house?
32:57
Sorry. Wow.
32:58
I would say about 20 Wow and. Like a four bedroom house,
33:02
right? There are two dormitory style
33:11
rooms and when I say dormitory, bump beds.
33:15
OK, gotcha. Yeah, sure.
33:18
Yeah, that was my experience with it.
33:20
There was, it was 4 bedrooms. You had 16 to 18 people in that
33:24
four bedroom house. Same thing.
33:25
I don't, you know, doubled up and, you know, everybody gets a
33:29
little square in the fridge. You know, I.
33:32
Don't remember any fridge but I'm sure the drag I just don't.
33:37
Not one of the priorities for me.
33:40
So was it? Was it worse being in prison or
33:43
worse being in the halfway house?
33:46
That's a good question. I was halfway house was.
33:49
That's right. That's what I was thinking.
33:51
Because at least in prison, you're behind you.
33:53
The door, the door closes behind you at night.
33:55
Now, when you're in prison, were you were you in a cell by
33:57
yourself or did you share? I was in.
34:02
I did a lot of time in solitary confinement.
34:05
Which is horrible. Right.
34:11
But when you're in Jim Paul. Protected.
34:13
Yeah, that's true. I knew that was.
34:15
True. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew.
34:17
That. You wouldn't get raped, you
34:19
wouldn't get pissed on, shit thrown at you so.
34:21
That's where I started doing my studies, reading my box,
34:25
exercising, praying, and that's really where I develop honed my
34:30
skills that I have that really good discipline today because I,
34:35
I have a lot of friends that have issues that they, they
34:38
can't get their mind around. Well, that's why I said that
34:41
could break a person. I think it's so admirable that
34:45
now that we're getting to that part of your story, you use that
34:49
time to strengthen your mind, which is I think if I could, I
34:53
would try to do that myself. As well, so the guards knew what
34:57
I was doing and then one of the facilities actually confiscated
35:00
my journal entries. Oh fuck.
35:03
Jeez, so now they're working against you.
35:06
Right. And this was the same facility
35:08
that I was assaulted by a sex offender.
35:10
So while I was at the halfway house, I was a victim in that
35:16
case against that individual. And let me tell you, when you're
35:19
a victim in a in a jail, you are treated so much differently than
35:27
a victim is treated on the outside, especially a woman.
35:32
Oh yeah, sure. Oh yeah.
35:35
I could see that. Yeah, yeah, because why are they
35:39
going to, they're automatically going to think that you're,
35:41
you're exaggerating what actually happened because you're
35:44
a convict. So your your credibility because
35:47
of that unfortunately is regardless if you're telling
35:50
truth or not is out the window, then it's all about evidence.
35:53
And and with what you went through, there's probably a lot
35:55
of circumstantial evidence. A lot of he said, she said, you
35:58
know, for lack of better term there like your word against his
36:02
word. And because the prison kind of
36:04
just blew it off, right. So I'm assuming you didn't go to
36:08
medical after the fact and get, you know, rape kit, all that
36:12
kind of jazz because everybody says, ah, shut up, Matt, you're
36:14
fine. I did, and I think that's why
36:21
they pursued the case. Oh, OK, OK.
36:25
Otherwise they may not have done anything.
36:28
Oh, OK. So at least you had that.
36:29
But then they still kind of were just like, yeah, whatever.
36:31
And now what was the outcome of that?
36:33
Or is it still going on? His, well, he was a sex
36:37
offender. He was in there for like 20
36:39
years and he got a concurrent sentence, which means it runs
36:42
the same time that he's it doesn't, it doesn't do it.
36:47
It's not justice, you know. Oh, so he so you won, but he
36:52
just got additional time? Well, they he got a plea ball
36:55
again. I mean, I don't know if that's a
36:57
win. Well, I know, I know.
36:59
Conviction on his record. Yeah, yeah.
37:03
See, now to me, I always kind of hold on to the fact that I think
37:07
sex offenders get destroyed in prison because they're sex
37:10
offenders. That's not necessarily true.
37:12
It isn't. That's a bummer.
37:15
On any level. Believe they should all be
37:17
thrown in the Everglades. Oh, I agree, Mike, and I agree.
37:19
That's let me ask. You this though, Matt, on any
37:21
level like child molesters. What was your experience with
37:26
them? Oh, I wanted nothing to do with
37:29
them, no. I mean, how were they treated?
37:32
I know you were. Treated.
37:34
Some were not treated well, but when I was in Danbury I was in a
37:39
unit full of sex offenders. Don told us the same thing and
37:43
Chris and I about fell out of our chairs.
37:44
Yeah, yeah. We have this illusion that sex
37:47
offenders are being treated harshly in prison, and now
37:50
you're the second person to tell us that is not the case.
37:52
That's. Absolutely.
37:53
It's not the case at all, and I would venture to say that most
37:59
sex offenders are not treated the way they should be.
38:05
Treated. I'm so disappointed to hear
38:07
that. I am too, man.
38:08
What's wrong with our penal system, damn it?
38:10
Everybody's got a sister or a mother.
38:11
Everybody's for surely got a mother.
38:13
You know what? If that was your mother,
38:15
somebody did that too. I would hope I just had this
38:18
vision. I don't know.
38:19
Like Chris said, we. Just I did too.
38:22
I don't know what what you want to call it.
38:25
I'm sorry to hear that. I think they're toddled.
38:28
I think the guards toddle them. That's just.
38:32
And then they treated you like you've been explaining to us.
38:34
It just, you were basically a paper on paper criminal, right?
38:42
Nobody got hurt. Nobody ever got hurt.
38:46
In fact, I broke so many rules. It's not funny when I say that.
38:50
So many barriers. This again.
38:52
Like I said, my attorney had never seen the government go
38:56
after somebody so harshly that didn't have a single victim
39:00
loss. Well, that's why I think it's
39:02
important to say again that nobody got hurt.
39:06
You know, there's people that are listening to this, that
39:08
we've made it far enough in they're going, he's a criminal.
39:11
He stole a car, he stole some identities.
39:14
Think about how we've carried this conversation.
39:17
We are talking about people who have raped children, mothers,
39:22
sisters, aunts, uncles, all walks of life.
39:26
The people that you care about are in prison with Matt.
39:30
He's being treated like a piece of shit and they're being
39:32
coddled. That makes me angry.
39:34
I'll just quickly reference, I don't know if you know who
39:36
Warren Jeffs is. Yes, 100%.
39:39
Yeah, do you know that? Still people today, after he's
39:43
been convicted of everything that he's been convicted of that
39:46
still believe he's for profit and are still coming in his jail
39:49
cell, still coming to see him. I sick ideology.
39:54
Ideology is the word. Right.
39:57
Yes. And for people who don't know,
39:59
Warren Jeffs was the leader of the.
40:01
Coddled. He's in a single.
40:02
Cell but. Yet he's getting visited.
40:05
I wasn't allowed any visitors. That's insane man.
40:11
It is, it's not. I'm blown away at the whole
40:14
story. Just just insanity.
40:23
So you get through the 18 months, the first stent, right?
40:27
You you get to the halfway house. 2004 So now we're at
40:31
what, 2007? No.
40:33
We're we've already done the second stint.
40:35
It's now this is 18 and I'm out. OK, OK So what?
40:38
So I must have missed that. So when you got out of the 1st
40:40
18 months that was 2006 ish right?
40:43
By the time that was 2005. OK.
40:46
So how did you get, how did you end up going back?
40:48
Was that the aggravated identity theft stuff?
40:51
I couldn't pass a background check, so I was using.
40:53
Other people. And that wasn't until 2009,
40:55
right, You said. OK, so and the reason you.
40:58
Actually stop. Like I had done that in 2009 and
41:02
then I stopped doing it. OK, and they behave you for.
41:06
Me that was OK that was a six year thing gotcha gotcha that
41:10
was a six year thing OK, I'm I'm I'm you you've given us so much
41:13
information in my head I was like wait a minute I.
41:15
Got lost for a second too so I'm glad you did that.
41:17
Much information that a lot of people get confused and I don't
41:23
mean to do that. No, you're fine.
41:25
We're with you now. Yeah, yeah.
41:27
So in two. 1018 you're out. What how has how has your life
41:33
been since then? Like re acclimating yourself to
41:36
society? How did you do that?
41:39
I've done that myself, so I'm curious of your story.
41:43
Typically that the shortest probation supervision sentence
41:49
is 3 years. OK, that's the shortest amount
41:52
of time I had asked after a year and a half to be released.
41:57
The Shelver News put a story in the paper that I was asking to
42:03
be released early, and every single time that's a defendant
42:08
asked to be released from supervision, it's always turned
42:12
down the first time. Always.
42:14
Why is that just just? Time I was granted it.
42:18
OK. But as usual, Michael Dratcher
42:22
is fighting vehemently against it, just like always.
42:26
I mean, if that's what the US attorney does, they don't want
42:29
anybody to be released off of supervision.
42:32
They make money. It's a money making scam.
42:39
And you have to understand that the difference between federal
42:44
and state is you sign a document, you we have to write
42:50
out what we did every single week.
42:52
We have to get passes. And at the bottom of that is you
42:58
are signing and agreeing that this is accurate.
43:00
And if it's not, they can charge you with perjury.
43:04
So that's the huge difference with federal versus state.
43:09
State does a lot more of leeway. And in the federal system,
43:16
everything that you do is being trapped.
43:20
There's a lot of things that you have to sign, you have to agree
43:24
to. And if you lie about the
43:27
smallest thing, they can charge you with perjury.
43:34
And you're going to be, I'm going to be a fine target.
43:37
Like this is what they these guys live for.
43:40
They live for convictions. And you're a two time felon,
43:47
right? I well, I'm have more
43:49
convictions than that, yes. OK, so how many convictions do
43:53
you have? Now.
43:57
Yeah. That haven't been expunged or
44:01
sealed. Well, just in general, in your
44:04
in your lifetime, how many convictions?
44:08
A lot. An awful lot.
44:11
More than 10. Well, you have to ask the
44:15
question because most all of my state crimes have been either
44:20
sealed or expunged. Oh, OK, so under under eight,
44:25
were they? Well, that's.
44:26
Just in the last year, I've worked my tail off with working
44:31
with the current state's attorney and getting my.
44:37
Record cleaned up. Records sealed.
44:39
Now there's a difference between sealed and expunge.
44:43
Expunge means it's gone, All the courts can see is the docket
44:49
number. Stealed means only the courts
44:54
and law enforcement can see the convictions.
44:58
OK. Oh, OK, so, but so an employer
45:01
going to get hired with somebody background checks your your, the
45:05
reason you're doing that is so you can get back to life and get
45:08
a job and be a productive member of society.
45:11
That's the state side, the federal side.
45:14
There is no remediation. In other words, you cannot get
45:22
any charges removed with the exception of a presidential
45:29
pardon, which I've been trying to get for 15 years.
45:33
So once you have a federal conviction, that's it, you're
45:36
done. It's on your record forever,
45:38
correct. That's.
45:39
OK, so, so we, we, we, we started this, this episode of
45:44
the Chris and Mike Show. There was no underlying drug
45:49
use. There was no underlying.
45:51
You never had. A drug addiction right, right,
45:53
right. That's why I'm bringing that's
45:54
why I'm bringing it up, man. There's no drug use.
45:56
There is no alcoholism. You just did this shit for the
46:00
thrill. You you got, you got high off
46:03
the ACT like. I have some good friends that
46:06
have told me that have had affairs, that have had a rush
46:11
doing that. Yeah, I can.
46:13
I can, you know, I can empathize with them.
46:16
I'm like, yeah, I got a rush driving 130 drivers.
46:20
It's there's a rush. Well, yeah, because you're
46:23
breaking the law and. And it's that is it the rush?
46:26
Is it the rush of is it OK, I don't have to ask this question?
46:31
Is it is it is it is the rush from the ACT itself or is it the
46:34
rush from the fact that, you know, you can possibly get
46:37
caught and get just, you know, screwed over from a, from a
46:42
legal standpoint, like, like you steal a car, right?
46:45
You don't let's go to the 130 miles an hour thing, right?
46:48
You're doing 130 miles an hour. Mike's got 120 miles an hour in
46:50
his car. I'm sure I've I've, I've, I've
46:54
hit, I've hit that. I don't think I've ever hit 130
46:57
but I've my wife's SUV. Every now and then I look down
46:59
like holy shit I'm doing 100 but you can't tell.
47:04
I love. But I don't, I didn't purposely
47:06
go out. I'm going to do 100 miles an
47:07
hour. So did you purposely go out like
47:09
I'm going to get this thing to 130 just for as long as I can?
47:12
Yeah, It was that thought. Was that the rush?
47:14
Wanted to see how fast that could go.
47:17
OK, so that that was the rush to 100 and. 30 miles an hour.
47:21
Oh yeah. Kudos to Dodge.
47:23
That's that's fantastic. So it's so it's the the ACT
47:28
itself is the adrenaline rush and the high that you get doing
47:32
performing that act of whatever it is.
47:34
Yeah, OK. So.
47:37
I listen to a lot of drug addicts when I was in prison
47:41
and. Obviously all.
47:42
Have the same they all say. They all say the same thing.
47:47
I just need one more fix. I just need.
47:50
I just want to do a one more talk and that's the way I was
47:53
like I just want to go 131 more time and then I'll stop.
47:56
I just want to steal one more car then I'll stop.
47:58
I just want to drive off without paying without just one more
48:01
time, then I'll stop. It's the same.
48:03
That's how we do life if. You want it to feel like it felt
48:07
the first time. That's every drug addicts
48:10
mantra. I always wanted it to feel like
48:12
it did the first time. You're never going to get that
48:16
again. It's just that's the dragon,
48:18
right? You're chasing the dragon.
48:20
So I don't experience that because it's not a drug.
48:24
Right, right. But, but, but I think what
48:28
Mike's alluding to is, is like you said, you did the drug
48:32
addicts that you listen to the drug stories do one more time,
48:34
just one more time, just one more time.
48:36
You know, like I knew somebody that was was it got to the point
48:39
in their heroin abuse and meth abuse.
48:41
It wasn't so much the high they were chasing.
48:43
It was the thrill of sticking the needle in their arm to see
48:46
if that was going to kill them or not, as fucked up as it is.
48:48
So it wasn't, there wasn't, they weren't no longer chasing the
48:51
high. They were chasing the adrenaline
48:53
was when the needle pierced. Because then you don't know what
48:55
happens after that. That was that high act of doing
48:58
it, right. So that's kind of what I was
49:00
getting at. It's the act of doing it that
49:02
was getting you that, that endorphin rush, the dopamine.
49:04
Rush whatever you want to call. Right, right.
49:07
It was, it was I can like a confidence man, like right.
49:10
I can go con this guy out of, you know, a grand or 100 grand.
49:13
It doesn't matter. I'm still conning somebody,
49:15
manipulating them, controlling them to get what my end game is,
49:18
which is this. And for them, it's not the end
49:21
game, it's the chase through the whole.
49:23
It's a chase for sure. Yeah, yeah.
49:25
It's like the guys I've told you about that have the affair.
49:28
There's a rush, you know? Yeah.
49:30
Else doesn't know I'm cheating. Can I get away with it?
49:33
You know, I'm just going to tell one lie and you know, I'll.
49:35
I'll get away with it. She won't know where I'm going.
49:38
And a large majority of those people, which is crazy, but a
49:41
large majority of them would tell you after it's over they
49:44
feel horrible, right? Yeah, yeah, because in the
49:47
conscious, it's kind of like shoplifting, right?
49:50
You shoplift, just see if you can stick it to the man, right?
49:53
Can I get away with it? And then you kind of just.
49:56
But they chase that dopamine high, right, versus the negative
50:00
feelings they have afterwards. The dopamine is far more
50:02
rewarding than the negative feelings are afterwards, right?
50:06
Yeah, I think any addict in your situation, Matt, I think we were
50:11
all in the same boat in that, you know, we fell on the wrong
50:15
side of that adrenaline rush. Just talking.
50:17
Be right back. Oh, OK.
50:18
Absolutely. I mean, if I hadn't ever done
50:21
this, I hadn't ever gotten that rush, there would be no need to
50:25
steal the car. Right.
50:28
And you said it in the beginning of the show, Chris.
50:30
And I got up on that stage because it was an adrenaline
50:33
rush. Because if you think about it,
50:36
what gave I used to think about this consciously, What gave me
50:40
the right to even be up there, right?
50:42
Why am I any better than the people who are standing in the
50:45
crowd? My mind works really weird.
50:48
So I think things all the way through to the down to the bone,
50:52
right? How does this work?
50:54
So I would consciously, I would feel like I shouldn't be up
50:57
there, but then I would be reminded that I had a talent
51:00
that very few people had, and these people came to see me play
51:03
and snap out of it and do it right.
51:05
That was my adrenaline rush. I like the volume.
51:08
I like being up there with my brothers and doing something
51:11
that very few people can do. Right.
51:14
So I'm glad that my adrenaline rush was a positive experience
51:17
until I became a drug addict. So that was a negative side, of
51:21
course, and that I fell into the same boat that you did.
51:25
And I could have just as easily gone down that road.
51:27
You know, I can think of an evening in particular.
51:30
IA 100% would have ended up in prison.
51:33
It was just whatever the the universal line that night.
51:37
And I got to get away with something that I shouldn't have.
51:40
But I had resigned myself to the fact I was going to end up going
51:44
down the same Rd. you did right in that moment in time.
51:46
I said this is it, you know, my train just stopped.
51:50
The party came to an end. Whatever, you know, my mother
51:55
would tell you it's divine intervention.
51:57
I would just tell you that the stars aligned.
52:00
Whatever. You know, they didn't find the
52:02
drugs. They didn't notice that I had
52:03
been up for seven days and I drove away.
52:10
That's why I feel for you. I could have just as easily
52:12
ended up in that position. So I'm glad that he's finding
52:16
people who have been down this road.
52:19
It's near and dear to my heart. I could have just as easily been
52:21
there. I just want you to know that you
52:23
know I'm no better than you. You're no better than me.
52:25
Chris is no better than. We're all human beings.
52:28
You know, Everybody deserves a chance to right the ship and do
52:32
things the right way. And I'm so glad that Chris
52:34
brought it up again. You didn't hurt anybody.
52:38
Nobody was affected in any way. Nobody showed up and said Matt
52:43
ruined my life and I will never be the same.
52:46
Not once. You stole a car and you stole
52:50
some people's identity, but they never got hurt because you did
52:52
the work. Correct?
52:54
You weren't stealing money from them.
52:56
It's not like you're a pilfering their Social Security.
52:59
Right. That's important for these
53:01
people that are listening to this show to know when they go
53:04
back and listen to it again because that's what I would do
53:07
if I got to this point and I had a different opinion.
53:12
I feel for you dude. I'm I'm so glad you came on here
53:16
to tell your story. Where?
53:21
Where is your life at this point?
53:25
Well, I'm trying to my story, so nobody has to go through what I
53:29
went through, I wrote. My You wrote a book.
53:31
It was. Cathartic.
53:33
And I wanted to share that this the kind of situation just
53:37
doesn't occur in Chicago. It happened in a small town in
53:41
Vermont. You know, I haven't even spoken
53:43
about Aaron Noble, who is the former chief of police of
53:46
Shelburne, who I also believe was a key instrument and why I
53:51
was persecuted so heavily. That individual received a
53:54
$200,000 payout in 2022 to just go away.
54:00
So yeah, you wrote a book about this, right?
54:03
I wrote a book called Bully Behind Bars, A gay Christian
54:05
Trump supporter goes to prison, and I outline all of it.
54:09
OK, yeah, but so when I say title, by the way, right when
54:12
we. That I know in my life that
54:16
would identify people in high level zits like I do, OK.
54:23
So let's, so we want to, we want to, we want to pitch your book.
54:26
I don't want you to give the book away because we don't, we
54:28
want people to go buy the book and read it.
54:29
So your book is basically a summary of everything you've
54:32
shared with us for this last hour.
54:34
Well, it starts with my childhood.
54:36
I mean, we haven't OK my childhood, but sure it it was.
54:40
I was bullied throughout most of my.
54:42
Right, Don't give it away. Don't don't give away all the
54:44
stuff because we want people to buy your stuff When people, when
54:48
that's the thing like love that you wrote a book, but I don't I
54:51
want people to buy your book. So he's, he's so right.
54:54
When we do this real quick, when people are selling a book, you
54:59
don't want to give too much away because obviously we want people
55:02
to go buy your book. On the flip side, when people
55:05
are promoting music, we want them to play the shit out of it,
55:08
right? Because people gravitate towards
55:11
music they've heard. They won't buy your book if you
55:14
tell them the whole story. He's 100% right.
55:16
Right. That's why I wasn't cutting off
55:18
to be a jerk. I just, I want people to go buy
55:20
your book. So where can we find the book?
55:23
It's on Amazon, it's so published.
55:26
Which? Is a lot harder than.
55:28
It is agreed. You both think.
55:30
And what's the book called again?
55:32
Bully behind bars a gay Christian.
55:34
Trump's hold on, hold on. Bully behind bar There it is.
55:37
Second one. It's awesome.
55:40
OK, hold on. Well, there's oh, there it is.
55:42
OK, all right, hold on. I'm going to share this because
55:46
this is what we do. It's, it's, you know, it's
55:51
funny. When I typed it in, all kinds of
55:53
Trump, Trump supporting stuff popped up.
55:55
So there it is. Boys and girls bullied behind
55:57
bars. A gay Christian Trump supporter
55:58
goes to prison. Release paperback February 13th,
56:01
2022 Matthew Melvin. This is Matthew Melvin.
56:04
There's a little synopsis, which if you have been paying
56:07
attention to the show the whole time, that's, that's, you know,
56:11
good synopsis there. Well, here's the back cover,
56:15
which is always fun. There's Matt.
56:17
Hi, Matt. Hey, we know that dude.
56:21
Yeah, how? How long is the book?
56:22
How many pages? 137.
56:25
OK, that's a good read then. That's a nice read.
56:27
Congratulations on writing that, by the way.
56:29
That's. Yeah, absolutely.
56:31
How how cathartic was that experience?
56:32
Was it was it, was it good to purge and kind of just get it
56:35
off your your soul? It was.
56:38
Yeah, Now once since that's come out, because that was that was
56:42
Oh, well, it's it's almost what, five years now, right.
56:47
When it came out four years. What was the response for people
56:52
that you because it again, don't drop names, but the people that
56:54
you talk about in the book, did it shine some light on some of
56:58
the corruption and some of the weird things that were going on
57:00
surrounding your cases? Did you get any, did you get any
57:05
kickback from from people like, oh, Matt, you're just full of
57:09
shit? Or was it like, wow, that's
57:10
that's crazy. Yeah, I mean, I had people in
57:12
the community who asked me why I would write a book that was self
57:25
and aggrandizing. Oh, really?
57:30
Yes. So they didn't hear the message,
57:33
obviously. Obviously, so are you.
57:37
You should try to get this thing to a, you know, a Netflix
57:40
documentary. Man, that would be interesting
57:42
your. Story is so yeah, I couldn't
57:44
agree with you more 100%. Your story's compelling, man.
57:49
It just is. I feel for you.
57:51
Yeah. I did way worse in my life as a
57:54
drug addict and could have hurt somebody way worse than you ever
57:58
did. Yeah.
58:00
I'm just fascinated that the fact that you didn't, it's not
58:02
like you stole that car, drove 130 miles an hour and kill a
58:04
family on the road, right? Yeah, no, I heard all that too,
58:07
by the way, when I had to step away.
58:08
I heard your entire conversation.
58:09
That was very poignant. The the the elements you were
58:12
touching, touching on there. Mike and Matt.
58:14
Yeah, I just, I feel. For him, I just feel like I've
58:18
done way worse in my life that could have ended up in the same
58:21
position and it would have been warranted and justified, right?
58:24
I was doing the supposedly the crimes, but this guy didn't hurt
58:29
anybody ever. Did you had did so with and
58:32
again, I don't want to give away too much of the book, but with
58:36
was this learned behavior or was this just something you realized
58:40
one day as a kid? Like, Oh, if, if if I go, you
58:42
know, steal this Twinkie from the store.
58:44
I get it for free. And then, oh, there's that rush.
58:46
You know, there's the first time, the first time you did
58:49
something bad, you know, everything went off and you had
58:53
like, oh, oh, I like how this makes me feel.
58:57
Yeah, it was an adrenaline rush, no question.
58:59
OK. And it wasn't it wasn't.
59:01
So back to what I started with the question.
59:03
It wasn't learned behavior. Like you didn't have somebody in
59:05
your life that was was doing those type of things and you
59:08
were just do you remember the first thing you did?
59:11
Yeah, Remember the first thing you grew up in this.
59:14
Family. Nobody in my family's ever been
59:16
to prison. I don't have any generational
59:19
history of people going to prison.
59:23
Mom and dad were married. Say that again.
59:26
Your mom and dad lived in the house.
59:28
Went work for 50 something years.
59:31
My father's a conservative and my mother's been is a liberal.
59:36
30 years of indoctrination from the University of Vermont can
59:41
really do a number on anybody. OK, what kind of relationship do
59:45
you have with them? It's always been fractured.
59:52
And. I got saw a lot of blowback from
59:56
family members about sharing my story.
1:00:00
I can see that. I can see that it's hard enough
1:00:03
in this world to to be openly gay and then to be just put it
1:00:09
out there in your book, you know, bully behind bars, a gay
1:00:12
Trump supporter. You know here I am world, right?
1:00:15
And then? That's who he is.
1:00:17
Wow. Yeah, I deal with people that
1:00:19
will send me a message on Instagram.
1:00:22
You can't. I've never heard of a gay
1:00:24
Christian. Oh yeah.
1:00:26
OK. Oh yeah.
1:00:27
Good for you, I have. I had another guy who said.
1:00:30
Well, now you should see. Well, now you.
1:00:32
Have there's whole churches of them move to the city.
1:00:35
You freaking yeah. Backwards.
1:00:38
Explore the country a little bit.
1:00:40
There's yeah, it's big. I've just seen so many
1:00:44
ridiculous things that come through social media about.
1:00:48
Oh, I don't doubt that. Just.
1:00:49
Ignore that shit. It's Here's the thing, if I
1:00:54
you've never experienced something, it's foreign to you.
1:00:58
Or if you can't say it to my face.
1:01:00
Right. Yeah.
1:01:01
You know you want to come and say something to my face.
1:01:04
Keyboard warriors. You you won't do it.
1:01:07
Yeah. No, no, no, we had, we had sit.
1:01:09
Behind a computer and you're a cow.
1:01:12
That's why I always tell people if you have an issue with me,
1:01:15
come tell it to my face. You know what coward does?
1:01:18
Coward blocks you. That's what a child does.
1:01:22
Yep, agreed. Well, that's.
1:01:23
Children, That's that's the world.
1:01:25
Don't you realize that when you block somebody, you are holding
1:01:33
yourself hostage because you're not going to, You're not going
1:01:36
to forget about it? Oh, that's you're.
1:01:38
Not going to forget when you block somebody.
1:01:41
That's I like that. That's cool.
1:01:43
You're. So right man, that that is very
1:01:45
cool and I've thought about that.
1:01:47
Like, yeah. If somebody blocks me, I'm like,
1:01:49
good for you now you're never going to know what I'm doing,
1:01:52
and that's going to bother you forever.
1:01:54
Right. I win.
1:01:57
Yeah. Because it doesn't bother me at
1:01:59
all. I'm going to sleep.
1:01:59
I might not sleep, but it won't be because of that.
1:02:03
Well. Until I forgave the people who
1:02:06
have done me wrong. That's where I finally got free
1:02:12
of the anger, hatred, hostility I have.
1:02:15
Don't gloss over that point. That is so true.
1:02:18
Forgiveness is for you. It's not for the other person.
1:02:21
It's so that you can move on. Because when you don't forgive
1:02:25
you allowing somebody else to live rent free in your head.
1:02:28
That might be the most poignant statement you've made in this
1:02:31
entire show. Man, that is so true.
1:02:34
Yeah, so let's leave the most poignant statement made in the
1:02:37
show with that and share your book again, boys and girls, You
1:02:41
want to find Matt Melvin's book? It's behind Bullied behind bars.
1:02:45
A gay Christian Trump supporter goes to prison.
1:02:47
Find on an Amazon 2399 paperback.
1:02:52
It looks like it's 315 pages. I wonder where I got 137 but.
1:02:57
It's OK still, you know, 313 is still good, man.
1:03:00
It's, you know, we still, we still want people to buy your
1:03:03
book because that's where you came on here.
1:03:05
Not only Share your story, but for us to kind of, you know,
1:03:08
promote you and and get get get your message out in your book
1:03:12
out there. Is is there any any plans to
1:03:15
write another one? Did you get Oh I?
1:03:17
Get asked that all the time. Right.
1:03:19
Well, that's why I asked it, man.
1:03:21
If you follow me on Instagram, Bully behind Bars, you can see
1:03:25
poems I've written. OK, right on.
1:03:27
Nice. We'll follow you.
1:03:28
We'll make sure we follow you for sure.
1:03:31
Are you following us on Instagram?
1:03:33
I don't think so, no. I don't even know if I know your
1:03:37
Instagram handle. Yeah, I'll send you an e-mail.
1:03:43
Usually when, when people, when people reach out to come to the
1:03:46
show, I send them a the first e-mail kind of explains
1:03:48
everything with all our social media links.
1:03:50
So I'll send you that, you respond back with your stuff and
1:03:53
then we'll, we'll help, we'll share all your stuff, you know,
1:03:56
vice versa. Or you can go to the Chris and
1:03:59
mikeshow.com, anybody can do that and you can get to every
1:04:02
social media link we're on from there so.
1:04:06
Yeah. Because I definitely want to
1:04:07
follow you. Mikeshow.com.
1:04:09
Yes, everybody go to the Chris and mikeshow.com.
1:04:12
Yeah, Mike just made that over the holidays.
1:04:14
I'm pretty damn proud of it, turned out.
1:04:16
One of those things, man, Matt, it's been great talking to you,
1:04:19
man. You have just an amazing story.
1:04:21
I'm going to buy your book because I think it'll be a
1:04:22
fascinating. Absolutely need to get you get
1:04:26
you a documentary going on, man, because that'll be a hell of a
1:04:29
story to watch. How comfortable do you feel?
1:04:32
How comfortable do you feel talking about your childhood?
1:04:35
0 to obviously you wrote it in the book, right?
1:04:38
Would you come back and like, give us that?
1:04:41
I'd like to hear your back story that led you.
1:04:44
Chris kept trying to get that out of you, but I think that
1:04:46
story is another hour or so. Probably, yeah.
1:04:51
I didn't know where you where you, what you were trying to.
1:04:55
No, you're no, you're no this. You're fine.
1:04:58
I would just like to have you back if you would be willing to
1:05:00
talk about that, because I think that's important for people to
1:05:05
understand. Like he was getting at what
1:05:08
makes somebody the person they become, right?
1:05:11
Right, like I have like like I had, we won't go down the path,
1:05:14
but I had a a very unique childhood recall and I could
1:05:17
have gone two ways. I went the way I went.
1:05:20
I could have gone the other way. 100%.
1:05:22
Which would have been dark and destructive.
1:05:25
And but that's the thing. So you know, I am who I am today
1:05:29
because my childhood shaped me to the person I was.
1:05:33
And I was lucky enough to have have the creative outlet pulled
1:05:36
out of me from a teacher and then realized, oh, I can use
1:05:39
that to purge all the darkness. The world is lucky too, because
1:05:43
I don't think what they understand is if you had gone
1:05:45
down the other side, that would have been ugly for the world.
1:05:48
Because you're talking to a guy who will self admit he lacks
1:05:52
empathy, right? That's something he learned
1:05:54
through his life, but it wasn't built into him.
1:05:57
So he's, he's going to react differently than most people to
1:06:03
situations that are unique, you know, to a lot of a lot of
1:06:06
folks. So had he gone down the dark Rd.
1:06:09
It would have been ugly for sure.
1:06:11
I think that's a little bit more point.
1:06:14
You would have been notorious. Darkness, man.
1:06:19
So Matt Melvin, go on Amazon, find his book The bully behind
1:06:22
bars. A a gay Christian Trump
1:06:25
supporter goes to prison. And seriously, if you want to
1:06:27
come back on and we can talk about the, you know, what led up
1:06:30
to 2004, that would be fascinating.
1:06:33
Then again, like Mike said, it's how comfort you are talking
1:06:35
about that. And again, we don't want to give
1:06:36
away too many elements from the book.
1:06:38
So we want people to buy your book.
1:06:40
I'm more interested in the dichotomy of his family to him.
1:06:44
Yeah, yeah, I yeah, I think it'll be fascinating too.
1:06:47
So we'll, if you're down with that, we'll we'll connect off
1:06:49
the show and and set it up. Have to come back on and we can
1:06:52
spend another hour or so picking your brain and having a good
1:06:55
conversation. Does that sound good?
1:06:57
Right on. Thank you so much.
1:06:58
So, yeah, thank you very much. Dude, this this was more than I
1:07:02
hoped it would be. When I read your biography, I
1:07:03
was like, oh, this will be fun, you know?
1:07:05
And it was. It exceeded my.
1:07:07
Expectations too. The hour went by like that,
1:07:09
which is which tells you how great the conversation was.
1:07:13
We are in the show like this every time.
1:07:14
So if you're if you're depressed, you're feeling
1:07:16
suicidal, go find somebody to talk to you.
1:07:18
If you can't do that, go scream in a pillow.
1:07:20
Go out and run. Go work out.
1:07:22
Do something that purges your mind of that frustration that
1:07:25
you're feeling and the sorrow that you're feeling.
1:07:27
Text 988. Somebody is there standing by
1:07:29
waiting to talk to you, to help talk you off that Cliff.
1:07:31
Tomorrow's a better day because you wake up in it.
1:07:34
Somebody does love you, even though you don't believe that.
1:07:36
So be mindful of that. And until next time, we'll see
1:07:39
you on the Chris and Mike Show. I'm Christy's Mike, and that's
1:07:41
Matt Melvin. Thanks, everybody.
1:07:43
Lovely brother. Love you too man Thanks Matt.