Latest / Brandon Fogal Evolution / #129 - What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg?

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#129 - What Came First, the Chicken or the Egg? · Brandon Fogal Evolution

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  So, today we're going to talk about Neil deGrasse Tyson and Richard Dawkins.
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  They had a sit-down. It was about a year ago. It was about a year ago on June 18th, 2024.
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  My birthday. My birthday. I wasn't born then, but that is my birthday.
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  And they discussed a lot of different things, and specifically evolution and
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  how we got here as a human species.
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  They delved into a number of different things. but in
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  this discussion Richard Dawkins I followed
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  him for a long time he's very combative in
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  the way that he approaches the subject he's very debative in whenever
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  he discusses these matters he's smart in a lot of ways he's a biologist he knows
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  a lot about a lot of things about the human nature and just the progression
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  of the human species and all that but I want to really I just want to dive into
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  this because there's it's going to be a little bit lengthy and there's some
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  things that they they talk about and Neil actually brings up the chicken and the egg situation.
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  It's kind of funny and the way he describes it and what came first,
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  but the meat of it is towards the end of what Richard says.
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  And when he outlines the adaptations of the human progression in evolution,
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  this is evolution, the show, my show, it's called evolution. I love, I love that name.
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  I said, that is the reason I call it that. I love that name. I love it.
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  You know, my name is Brandon let's just dive into it
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  right now let's get into it there's a lot here um but that that
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  was the idea was it you yes it must have been
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  you because who else would do this hosted on social media
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  it was no if you had a book of the a
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  picture of your mother i think you're thinking of your mother's mother
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  yeah you you pile them up it's just one one
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  of many ways of of dramatizing the the
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  normality of of geological time i forget
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  exactly how it goes there are lots of ways of doing it i mean no but
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  you do this and if you keep doing it one of
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  those pictures is a fish and yet
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  and yet every single generation looks like the the previous
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  one and the next one there's no sudden there's no sudden it's not sudden and
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  many people can't grasp this they think well there must have been a time when
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  it stopped being a fish and you know but there wasn't it just gradually gradually
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  gradually gradually changed okay so just right there i i this is the struggle
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  that i am having i'm i'm been looking into this.
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  I've really been researching. I'm reading the origin on the origin of species
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  by Darwin, Charles Darwin.
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  I'm reading that now. And I'm studying a lot of just things about how we got
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  here, the records that we have.
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  It is still a very big struggle for me. And I'm...
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  Trying to understand because most of my life, I just accepted that this is what it was.
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  Because we always saw going to school that the progression of humans,
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  like from apes to now, you know, the transition, the Neanderthals and all that,
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  how we just became a human.
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  And to me, I just accepted it early on.
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  And the more that I'm looking at it and really now from a different point of
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  view coming at it and trying to really grasp it, it is not making sense to me right now.
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  It still seems like you would have to have a little bit of faith to buy into
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  this, but I'm not, Richard says that it just, it just takes so long and people
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  don't understand that you wouldn't see a sudden change.
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  And that is what, that's why you need this so many years.
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  That's the way I'm getting it. But let's just continue.
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  Okay. Will you allow me given this, which I completely understand,
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  you have to allow me my, explanation for the chicken and the egg.
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  Okay. Okay. So I tell people, but I've never gotten your blessings on this.
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  Can I use that word with you?
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  Yeah, of course. I'm all for blessings.
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  So, so I simply tell people, they say, what came first? Chicken and the egg? I said, the egg.
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  It was just laid by a bird that was not a chicken.
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  Yes. Right there. My argument would be that the chicken came first.
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  The chicken came first. But I've never heard of that. I've heard that before.
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  Like, how do you get the chicken and egg kind of thing?
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  And Neil says it's, the egg was laid, but not by a chicken. It just somehow
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  miraculously became a chicken, it would seem.
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  But let's continue. That's a fair statement.
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  I'm compressing a billion, you know, the hundred million years of time there.
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  Yes. But at some point you're going to say what comes out of the egg is a chicken. and,
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  but that's a genetic alteration from the previous generation.
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  There never was a moment when a bird that was not a chicken gave rise to a chicken.
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  It never was. Of course. So this is a very compressed, it's a shorthand for
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  what you just said with the book of your ancestors, going back to the fish. Yes.
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  I mean, I once had a letter from a lawyer who said, roughly speaking,
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  evolution can't be true because a species is defined as members can always interbreed with each other.
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  And you can't imagine that there was a time when child generation was incapable
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  of breeding with the previous generation.
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  Of course, you couldn't. But he thought that meant that somehow evolution was
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  invalid. He couldn't grasp that. That everything was specially created. Yeah.
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  Everything is, it's a gradual process all the way through.
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  And as you step back through your ancestors, they become slightly less like
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  a human slightly less like a human but you never notice it as,
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  you walk past them if you imagine okay that was the meat of it that's what so
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  it's the gradual progression gradual progression but there's no sudden just
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  there's no sudden just immediate transition one species didn't just procreate
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  with another species it just it had it just took over and over,
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  just adaptations over time and over time.
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  And this is, I think this is the viewpoint that people who, when they look at
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  Darwinism and they study Darwinism, that he made it possible that how things
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  could have come this way without God intervening without.
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  And I think he was almost looking at it from that viewpoint that God doesn't exist.
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  How do we explain all this? And even just to get that, just the adaptations
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  over time, because what the Bible says is that certain kinds reproduce after their own kinds.
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  And I think even as we see right now, you can't have, I guess if you're just
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  thinking of, so right now we got dogs or wherever they are at, right?
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  Whatever they're going to morph into, whatever species right now is they're
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  going to morph into by just over and over within that own species.
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  Species. It's just reproducing, reproducing, and then it suddenly becomes something new.
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  It's just something new. There's, after a period of time, it just becomes something
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  that is not what it was before, not what it was before.
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  And that, that is, that's a struggle for me, because to even take that on,
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  you would have to have some faith that that is what happened.
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  Because even if we go through just history, and we can only go so far back,
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  you know, We only have records of so far back.
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  And it seems like thousands and thousands of years ago, there was still the
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  animals that we have then are the ones that we have now.
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  And it doesn't make sense that even if, say,
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  we started at the beginning, we were all bacteria, and then the bacteria started
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  just growing, and life just kept going somehow and reproducing itself, reproducing itself.
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  And it's like a tree, you know, like the roots in the tree, and just starts
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  like from one beginning point of life and then it just keeps reproducing,
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  reproducing and it just starts, I kind of get that viewpoint.
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  But it doesn't make sense because it doesn't at all, that is something people
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  don't buy into miracles in the Bible because they don't happen.
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  This, the same stuff that has happened in this viewpoint, it doesn't happen.
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  This doesn't happen in our actual world. This doesn't, this of one thing becoming something else.
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  Birds, I mean, like the birds that they, we see in like the Galapagos Islands,
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  you know, Darwin went and he saw one finch over here and another finch over
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  here, you know, and the way that they kind of grew based on their environment and all that.
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  I, it doesn't seem plausible to me that just because one thing adapts to its
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  environment, that it becomes another thing.
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  A bird doesn't suddenly just become an elephant, you know,
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  certain things, like even if you try to crossbreed things, which,
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  which like, is it, you make a donkey and a horse and it creates a mule,
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  but then a mule cannot reproduce any further.
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  You know, it seems like God has put gaps in place, stop gaps,
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  that things like this can't happen.
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  We, that, you know, a woman or a woman or a man can't have sex with a,
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  an animal and then have another, a new thing. A thing doesn't come into existence.
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  Doesn't actually have a baby. I don't see that. I, that doesn't make sense to
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  me, but I guess if you're saying it within your own kind.
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  So like, I guess right now we are humans and we are only be able to procreate
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  with humans and eventually something's going to emerge out of us.
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  Maybe that's the way that is taken this. And I get sort of what they're saying,
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  but to me, no matter how much you stretch this and try to understand it,
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  it takes an element of faith.
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  You have to have some type of faith to agree with this.
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  That's my whole thing, you know? Like even within the human species,
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  so it is something that kind of always trips me up, you know,
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  is that we do have all, everybody has all different skin colors.
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  Like how did that all happen? You know? And I, I'm kind of throwing this in
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  here because according to, does that mean one of the races is going to, is the better race?
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  That is going to be the naturally selected one that continues and the other
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  ones are kind of going to go away or somehow be fall out of the whole chain of everything.
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  Is that, is that, is that something within that worldview is that that viewpoint,
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  the natural selection is making its thing because that has always tripped me up.
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  Like what, how did we become, even if so, God made all humanity from all one man.
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  That's cause that's my viewpoint. He made it from, But how did we all get the
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  different colors of skin and different?
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  The only thing that I can make sense of that, and this is kind of a little bit
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  different than what they're discussing, but the God creates everything.
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  And then whenever he separates the peoples and every across the world,
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  and then one, one group of people is in one area of the world.
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  Another group is another area of the world.
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  And they start adapting to their environment. And then maybe just that descent.
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  And then they become more and more like that pigmentation, that color.
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  And that different ethnicity and all that, that's the only thing I can make
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  sense of that, you know, because that is something I'm curious about.
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  Like I've always, even as a believer in God, like how that happened,
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  is that maybe fall more in line with the evolutionary progression of the human species?
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  Does that make, does that, is that an explanation for it? Like,
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  or is that something completely out of left field?
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  Cause that is something I've always been curious about?
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  Like, how did we all become so different?
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  Either way, God makes it clear that everybody is made in the image of God.
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  All humans are made in the image of God and that we all have this same inherent
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  value because that's the, the, the, we are all in the same playing field.
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  We are all as equally valuable as each other.
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  But if, if evolution is correct and we're just really just becoming more and
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  more pristine and more and more better and just survival, the fittest kind of thing.
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  Is that why, is the only thing that makes sense of it that eventually one race
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  is going to eclipse the other?
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  I'm just looking at, try to look at it from both points of view.
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  But now I just think of the next step in whatever people, the viewpoint of evolution
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  of where we would be going.
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  Is that where we start like connecting ourselves with technology?
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  Is that the viewpoint that we're going to take that we can all actually,
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  we're all here as humans.
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  Now we can kind of link arms together and become joined to computers and the digital age.
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  Is that the next step in evolutionary theory? This whole sit down and talk and
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  talk about Dawkins because he's, I'd love to hear more about what he has to think on this.
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  And I know he has so many things out there and I've followed so many,
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  but it's still not convincing to me.
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  And I'm trying to be as open to it as possible because whenever I look at these
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  things, I don't see one animal that's on land just suddenly become an animal that's in the water.
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  Like that, like that's the whole whale thing. They see bones within a whale
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  that kind of are similar to land mammal bones.
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  And that must mean that at one point they were on the ground and just walking.
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  And now they're out there in the ocean.
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  To me, that's miraculous.
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  That's miraculous that that would happen. And it doesn't, or you would have
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  to accept the idea that something is happening in the past that is not happening
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  right now in our present time.
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  And that's why so many people that don't like miracles and they don't,
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  it can't be scientifically proven because it's, we don't, it's not happening now.
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  People don't rise from the dead, but somehow somebody rose from the dead,
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  you know, 2000 years ago.
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  It's just a, it's a, it's a clash of worldviews, but it's still very interesting
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  to me. and I hope it's interesting to you.
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  I hope these things are something that you think about because at the end of
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  the day, life isn't about money.
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  Life isn't about just building your bank account and just getting more success
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  and prestige in this world and whatever you think in the here and now because
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  eventually we are, it's not gonna last forever.
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  So what is beyond this world?
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  What is beyond this world? And
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  I think there's good evidence that there is something beyond this world.
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  So we'll leave it at that. If you've enjoyed this video, make sure you smash
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  that like button and subscribe to this channel.
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  My name is Brandon Fogel. I do this every day at 7 a.m. Have a great day.