Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Hamster Extra talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Storyteller

Transcript

Hamster Extra talks to Robert Valentine about his choice of The Storyteller · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome back to. I'm super blunt.
• 0:02
  Penknife extra I'm here today with the Glorious.
• 0:07
  The handsome, Robert Valentine. Hello Rob.
• 0:11
  Oh you you too. So you're good.
• 0:13
  Hello. Good afternoon.
• 0:14
  Good morning whenever you're listening to, this is the time.
• 0:17
  It's, it's set. Yeah.
• 0:19
  Anyway. Yeah.
• 0:20
  Hi Joe. How are you?
• 0:21
  Yeah, I'm really well. Thank you very much.
• 0:22
  I'm interesting gag is very cold right now.
• 0:25
  We didn't have any snow but it is bloody freezing.
• 0:27
  A nice pool. It's not It's cold, it's cold in
• 0:31
  darkest SRI, as well. It's have you had snow pea.
• 0:35
  Oh yeah, yeah, we had we had a big old blanket of, it's all
• 0:38
  gone. Now the drizzle, then the then
• 0:40
  the rain took care of it but we did have like yeah a little bit
• 0:44
  of a what do they say about March in like a lion out?
• 0:48
  Like a lamb. So we had a little bit of lion,
• 0:51
  just just a reminder that winter is not quite over yet, really?
• 0:55
  But until yeah, we stil still all too fucking scared to put
• 0:58
  are hating on my arm. Being in fear of the builders.
• 1:01
  Yes. Yeah, yeah, layers, you doing
• 1:03
  the right thing, you're doing the right thing.
• 1:05
  And I will just say before we go into talking about what we're
• 1:08
  going to talk about today, I can tell you, make coffee into your
• 1:11
  hand, you know, embarrassed in a very English sort of way, but I
• 1:15
  can say with some degree of certainty, you are a handsome
• 1:18
  man because since the last time we recorded, I'll meet you in
• 1:21
  the flesh. Oh yeah, we met up at the bits
• 1:28
  were to happen. That's right, wasn't it?
• 1:30
  Yes, yes, we did. Yeah.
• 1:31
  Gavin many people together to meet Nathan bottomley from fly
• 1:34
  for entirety, and had a gale day of it.
• 1:37
  Yeah. It was even that was great.
• 1:39
  The chance to meet Nathan, especially and knowing it was
• 1:41
  like that, you know, it was like it was like now or not.
• 1:46
  Never, but could be either be years, you know, gonna do.
• 1:49
  So yeah, it without, that was a great off.
• 1:51
  Thanks very much for inviting. Leave me alone.
• 1:53
  Yeah, very liberal of Lie to Me. Rob, we are here today to talk
• 2:00
  about a television show that you have chosen.
• 2:04
  I'm going to come in with a question immediately because you
• 2:08
  the premise of this thing is for existent hamster, members to
• 2:12
  come along and talk about a show that isn't Doctor Who related,
• 2:18
  You could have chosen any television show in the entirety
• 2:22
  of the history of television and you chose Jim Henson's.
• 2:27
  The Storyteller. Yes, I did.
• 2:30
  Yes, I did. This is a TV show.
• 2:32
  I loved on broadcast. I was when I got to see it.
• 2:37
  So that would have been 87. 88. So around then around the time
• 2:43
  the same time I was kind of watching Doctor Who but this you
• 2:47
  know ink this is quite, this is quality.
• 2:49
  This is this is how I look. Yes.
• 2:52
  Forget that Doctor Who rubbish. This is, this is really really
• 2:55
  great television. Yeah, this was one of the kind
• 2:58
  of the Any kind of formative things for me?
• 3:00
  It was kind of. It was obviously, I saw
• 3:02
  Labyrinth at the cinema in 1986 and was obviously a big Muppet
• 3:09
  fan and as long as you can hear me if I cause I don't know why
• 3:14
  videos. Let's keep going.
• 3:26
  These things now, you know, because that entire section of
• 3:29
  the shoulder one, where you told me that you couldn't, in fact,
• 3:32
  see what was on the screen for the first three episodes.
• 3:35
  I didn't want to ruin your flow. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:41
  So Why this is? This is a really Niche choice.
• 3:53
  It wasn't nice to me at seven or eight.
• 3:55
  It was just a wonderful live action series of fairy tales.
• 4:01
  I mean, I thought, you know growing up.
• 4:03
  I should love stories of all kinds but I was very, very big
• 4:06
  on on fairy tales and this was just so rich so evocative and
• 4:11
  it's Jim Henson's the Storyteller.
• 4:14
  So obviously it's full of Jim Henson Creature Workshop.
• 4:18
  Puppetry in the same way that The Sopranos You could kind of
• 4:23
  say is like Goodfellas the TV series, that's a very strong
• 4:27
  argument. That the say that the
• 4:29
  Storyteller is kind of like Labyrinth the TV series.
• 4:34
  So all the stories that all fairy tales, so the more obscure
• 4:39
  ones so folk tales from Europe and from Russia.
• 4:44
  Some some English British but that's not the time from Germany
• 4:48
  grimmest. More of the Abyss more obscure
• 4:50
  Grimm's Tales. The Is played by the great John
• 4:55
  Hurt. So there's a doctor who
• 4:56
  connection retrospectively and he has a dog.
• 5:01
  And his dog is a Jim Henson, puppet voiced, and operated by
• 5:07
  Brian Henson, who was also the voice of Hoggle in Labyrinth.
• 5:11
  So immediately it has that very direct Labyrinth flavor to it
• 5:19
  and just and all the stories are just phenomenal with Just
• 5:23
  incredible incredible costs of some of the greatest actors
• 5:29
  available at the time and that these are just wonderfully
• 5:32
  written by the again, the late great Anthony minghella, who is
• 5:37
  the writer and director of The English Patient.
• 5:41
  Most, you know that and The Talented mr.
• 5:43
  Ripley amongst many other things and he and Jim Henson, both gone
• 5:48
  far too soon. They both died far too young,
• 5:51
  but it's is just a Brilliantly produced pretty the conceived,
• 5:55
  wonderfully written phenomenally acted.
• 5:59
  So so magical 1980s piece of television.
• 6:03
  And it was also for me personally, it was just a very,
• 6:06
  very formative. This had just a big influence on
• 6:10
  me and my kind of just love stories storytelling folklore
• 6:18
  fairytale. It's all Part of the same fabric
• 6:24
  for M, Labyrinth and Terry gilliam's.
• 6:26
  The Adventures of Baron Munchausen.
• 6:28
  Eric the Viking, the BBC's Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, and
• 6:32
  all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, for me, this is a
• 6:36
  really, really obvious thing to suggest because it's just feels
• 6:40
  like a something that was key for me, really, so you brought
• 6:43
  up about 25 talking points there.
• 6:46
  Other know where the stuff why want to start with is you said
• 6:49
  this is almost like a natural successor on television too.
• 6:53
  You the Labyrinth? Yeah.
• 6:55
  Oh I think this is a lot darker than the Labyrinth or parts of
• 7:00
  this are bloody Sinister also here because I want my other
• 7:06
  office. Watch this.
• 7:07
  Oh, he had the DVD on the Shelf. So when I said I was doing it
• 7:09
  when I do, I'll go and get it will watch it all now, I am so
• 7:12
  glad I'm so glad. I'm so glad and he said it
• 7:16
  absolutely terrified him as a kid, some of the imagery.
• 7:19
  And like we're going to do two countries today.
• 7:22
  Day and there's two particular bits which we'll talk about.
• 7:26
  When we do the commentaries death in the soldier of death
• 7:31
  and that Bloody creature under the sea and the water in Theon
• 7:35
  or the lightest. Like I seem to remember many
• 7:41
  times doing hamster. Commentaries talking about
• 7:43
  sometimes together is Doctor Who a little bit inappropriate for
• 7:46
  children and then I always go as you know what, you go back to
• 7:50
  those Grimm's Fairy Tales that We will read when we work with
• 7:54
  young an audit to. I had a book of Grimm's Fairy.
• 7:56
  That's what Bella straight book. Hey, really.
• 7:59
  Talk really scary folktales are folk, tales aren't just for
• 8:04
  children. Their cautionary tales to to
• 8:06
  inform you about the world and warn you about the world, you
• 8:11
  know? It's just in the 20th century,
• 8:13
  some of the victorians and then Walt Disney sort of tidied it up
• 8:19
  and made it kind of pink. And pastel and palatable and all
• 8:24
  that stuff. But now these are proper kind of
• 8:28
  authentically. Dark little bits of you know,
• 8:34
  deep deep dark memory. Really, how old would you have
• 8:36
  been watching this? Yes, seven and eight stay there
• 8:40
  were two Series so that's and I don't really recall a never
• 8:44
  being repeated. So when you said you'd never
• 8:46
  heard of it, I was not surprised because this was really, I think
• 8:50
  one of those things where you either 7:45 The time or you
• 8:54
  never even heard of it. There's very much one of those
• 8:56
  things. There's been a recent repeat on
• 8:59
  like HBO have put them out our cool and that's the only repeats
• 9:05
  I've ever had. Which fool television offered
• 9:09
  and I would call this Prestige television.
• 9:11
  Like, when I, when I was watching these episodes the
• 9:15
  visual palette of it, I was astonished, it was made when it
• 9:19
  was made and I kept going. How the hell did they do that?
• 9:24
  Like that's me Looking Through The Eyes of a modern TV viewer.
• 9:28
  Now you know, looking back at special effects from the late
• 9:31
  80s. Yes.
• 9:33
  Yes. Yeah.
• 9:34
  How about like some of it? Some of its obvious It's like
• 9:37
  the CSO and things like that, but even with the six-year so
• 9:41
  that the technical ambition. And, and the way the stories are
• 9:45
  told visually using CSO, for example, you've got the
• 9:48
  Storyteller telling the stories, but the way you intercut between
• 9:51
  the story being told and the Storyteller telling it there's a
• 9:55
  huge amount of visual overlap like, you might have, you know,
• 9:59
  either the soldier or in the next one.
• 10:02
  We'll do after fear, not like walking along the Country Lane.
• 10:05
  And then, the Country Lane is, The fireplace of the Storyteller
• 10:08
  and things like that. So it's hugely creative or fear,
• 10:11
  not turning up on the rim of the dog's bowl, and that's the wall
• 10:15
  and he hacks. Yes, exactly.
• 10:17
  Yeah. So, it's just incredibly
• 10:19
  inventive. There's that, there's that
• 10:21
  moment in my couple of doctor parallels, but only because I
• 10:26
  want to show just how inventive this is compared to the
• 10:30
  realization of Doctor Who in Inferno, where the primals goes
• 10:34
  to hit the mad and then it cuts. It's to someone bashing a nail
• 10:39
  into a wall to make the inference that math skulls just
• 10:42
  been bashed in. Well that was that happens once
• 10:45
  or twice in the Run of doubles her and everyone Lords it as
• 10:48
  being this incredible you know directional flourish that
• 10:53
  happens about 15 times per episode in the Storyteller.
• 10:57
  But how such inventive ways? Oh yeah.
• 11:00
  But then again, this is a single camera and 40v quite a quite a
• 11:05
  cinematic approach. In the first episode, we'll
• 11:07
  discuss is directed by Jim Henson himself, who was
• 11:10
  obviously a film director and and the second episode is
• 11:15
  directed by. Did I write his name down?
• 11:21
  Is directed by you can cut this slightly.
• 11:23
  So it sounds like I've done my homework.
• 11:30
  Oh, you get it anyway? Okay, fine.
• 11:33
  And the drift of the second one and will be reminded.
• 11:35
  When make sure you watch the commentary.
• 11:36
  He he, he was a hugely experienced director and he
• 11:40
  directed the music videos for when the Wolves, when the World
• 11:44
  falls down and magic dance. So he did the beaded the Bowie
• 11:50
  music videos for that. So, we're talking, we're not
• 11:52
  talking sort of we discuss everything with Sharda, how I
• 11:56
  don't really pay attention to the directors with dr.
• 11:58
  What is it? But I'll I absolutely wanted to
• 12:01
  bring this up because you said that.
• 12:03
  Yeah you don't worry. Yeah, because I think what's all
• 12:05
  it's all studio-based stuff. You know I certainly care
• 12:08
  because I'm a movie person and I you know, I you know how many
• 12:13
  movies aren't they? They are they are this is this
• 12:15
  this elevation as done like a movie?
• 12:18
  Yes, exactly. So yeah.
• 12:20
  So and so I'm it's something direction is something I pay
• 12:22
  very, very close attention to and until I do that I could I
• 12:27
  clearly deliberately flick a switch in my Writing when I can
• 12:30
  sit down to watch classic who looks like words, it's Studio
• 12:34
  stuff. You know what are we gonna do?
• 12:36
  Yeah yeah yeah it's close to here and we're Shadow or
• 12:39
  watching a pair of robbers story, you know, like I was
• 12:41
  probably a safe thing to do to switch your brain off and just
• 12:44
  enjoy it. Yeah, the the I kind of think of
• 12:46
  Doctor Who more is kind of, you know, it's a theater production
• 12:49
  with multiple cameras involved except sometimes, sometimes the
• 12:53
  direction can be brilliant. But the other thing is, as I've
• 12:55
  said before, I don't actually watch dr.
• 12:58
  Who very often You know, it's not, you know it is on a visual
• 13:01
  level as a punishing, given the work that you do, you know?
• 13:04
  Yeah. But implicit but watching things
• 13:06
  and writing things, but the two different jobs.
• 13:11
  It's yeah. But like this, the Storyteller
• 13:13
  is every shot is crafted. Yeah.
• 13:17
  And yes, yeah, many shows coming out of the that time period,
• 13:21
  where you just feel like this much care has been lavished on
• 13:26
  how something looks. I'd say even now.
• 13:29
  Now we have better, we have HD and you know stuff you know all
• 13:35
  stuff is shot on 35 mil, whatever, but the visual
• 13:38
  imagination in this is can't be. It's rarely be I think anywhere
• 13:44
  I can't really think of top of head.
• 13:45
  Although impressive sets, fantastic music.
• 13:50
  I felt like the lighting was on point, but what what I thought
• 13:54
  was so impressive was the thought of it for goes all of
• 13:59
  that. Garish ugliness that came out of
• 14:01
  the mid to late 80s and it's just got this beautiful visual
• 14:06
  palette. Every single shot is is stunning
• 14:09
  to look at. It could be like a painting.
• 14:12
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah.
• 14:16
  It's at the production design is gorgeous on it and when we'll
• 14:18
  come to it as we go along, because once through these
• 14:21
  episodes, the sets are gorgeous. But they're also reused very,
• 14:26
  very cleverly as well. So that's something to Kind of,
• 14:30
  we can pay attention to as we go or just read rest with a lot of
• 14:33
  skill. Yeah.
• 14:34
  Yeah. Rear even, yeah.
• 14:35
  But we're in a kind of way that's kind of, you know, it
• 14:37
  doesn't even matter if you notice because it's the story
• 14:40
  within the story. So yeah.
• 14:42
  But well yeah, we kind of point to the factors.
• 14:44
  We go with it. Can I ask then has how these
• 14:48
  stories are structured and I feel like the series would lose
• 14:53
  so much if you didn't have the Storyteller.
• 14:57
  And what's the dog's name, the dog.
• 14:59
  Yeah, he's just gonna stop. Yeah, if you didn't have their
• 15:02
  interactions. If it was just the stories being
• 15:05
  told, it would lose like an awful lot has any of this style
• 15:10
  of Storytelling because like the the economy of what you can do
• 15:14
  with someone narrating, a tail means that you can tell a story
• 15:18
  over someone's entire life, in 20 minutes.
• 15:22
  Has any of this influence your own writing?
• 15:25
  Oh, you're massively massively. Just also just the The having
• 15:31
  characters tell stories is inherently fascinating.
• 15:36
  You know, so characters within fiction telling stories.
• 15:38
  And also what's very important is the dog character because the
• 15:41
  dog is kind of the audience is standing, you know the dog has
• 15:46
  questions. The dog has opinions, the dog
• 15:50
  sees, the story being told out of the corner of its I you know
• 15:55
  the you know the actual in story elements.
• 15:58
  So the Because of the veil between the world of the story,
• 16:02
  being told and the world of the story being told is very, very
• 16:05
  porous. So story elements can leak out
• 16:08
  both ways. And, yeah, he points out all the
• 16:12
  inconsistency. Think that's very telling, I'm
• 16:14
  like, that is literally me watching a doctor who story.
• 16:17
  Yeah, exactly. But that's another good little
• 16:19
  trick Ashley. Is that if you do have any kind
• 16:22
  of inconsistencies, either in logic or character motivation,
• 16:26
  anything like that, all you have to do is have a character with
• 16:29
  Your story acknowledge it. What's that called?
• 16:31
  An internal it or something? Oh yeah, oh, yeah.
• 16:34
  In the lampshade is the phrase, but it said, but it makes good
• 16:37
  sense. Because people did people to, in
• 16:39
  real life. They said, what's the difference
• 16:41
  between fiction and real life? And it's fiction has to make
• 16:46
  sense again, but if you can really like the exactly.
• 16:51
  Exactly. So if you can just have cult
• 16:53
  characters acknowledging that, there's something a little bit
• 16:55
  off in the logic here, you know, so, the V, you know, so, so,
• 16:59
  Only it works. There was one, you know, where
• 17:02
  the dog fell asleep. Our South on finishes.
• 17:05
  The Great Indoors story that's been told, you know, there's two
• 17:10
  series, isn't there? There are two series.
• 17:13
  My favorite is the first one, the first one is all you.
• 17:17
  It's European folk tales with John Hurt, as the Storyteller in
• 17:21
  lots of being big-eared. Profit, big ears, big nose old
• 17:24
  man makeup telling it to the dog.
• 17:28
  The second series is Shorter. And it's the Greek myths and
• 17:32
  it's Michael Gambon in a toga, what?
• 17:36
  Under it. Wandering the ruins of the
• 17:38
  labyrinth, where Theseus base the minor tour with the dot with
• 17:43
  the dogs. The same though.
• 17:44
  So the dog is the continuity and that's a really good series but
• 17:48
  it just slightly lacks that magic of the first one, partly?
• 17:52
  Because I like fairy tales more, even more than Greek myths.
• 17:56
  Is that true? I don't know.
• 17:57
  But, you know, for some reason, it just works better.
• 17:59
  However, the first two stories of the second series that
• 18:05
  interlinked and it's it has Derek Jacobi playing Icarus.
• 18:13
  No, no. The Daedalus Daedalus his dad
• 18:16
  and yeah and he is brilliant in its really good but it just
• 18:22
  feels slightly smaller scale than the first series as and
• 18:27
  very handsy about a story. It's held by a fire isn't there?
• 18:31
  Oh yeah, absolutely. In fact before we go into it
• 18:34
  each episode begins with John Hurt saying I think it's just
• 18:37
  worth staying here because it's just, you know, there's a
• 18:40
  there's an ethos to this a bouquet which just really
• 18:44
  appeals to me. He says, yeah.
• 18:47
  When people told themselves the past with stories explained that
• 18:51
  if present with stories foretold the future with stories, the
• 18:55
  best place by the fire was Kept For the Storyteller.
• 18:59
  I could done it better, but if the sentiment is there, you
• 19:01
  know, it's all about the power and the importance and the
• 19:05
  function of Storytelling, we are a storytelling species and
• 19:09
  telling stories to ourselves about ourselves.
• 19:12
  And the world is what makes us human, really?
• 19:16
  It is the thing that separates us.
• 19:18
  Yeah, Bora TV show a short-lived TV show.
• 19:24
  I think it was axed. Was it just very expensive to
• 19:26
  make? I think it was hugely expensive.
• 19:29
  Pensive to make. Yes.
• 19:31
  But also I think Jim Henson's attention was divided between
• 19:36
  that and his film work. So, you know, he was a, he was a
• 19:39
  busy busy guy. For such a short-lived.
• 19:45
  But, like, really impressive TV show.
• 19:48
  There's so little out. So I went online to try and find
• 19:52
  any information about the show, any behind-the-scenes
• 19:55
  information, I found a Wikipedia page, I found an article on, we
• 20:00
  are Co about the soldier and death and I found a ten
• 20:07
  impressive facts about the Storyteller and that was it
• 20:13
  Yeah. What's better sleep?
• 20:14
  What more is there to tell beyond the?
• 20:17
  I just want to review information.
• 20:27
  There was two things. There was like a tiny
• 20:29
  three-minute behind-the-scenes thing.
• 20:33
  Featuring like the production crew.
• 20:35
  Yeah but not really giving you any information and the best
• 20:38
  thing I found it was on its the they're showing the 80s.
• 20:43
  Sarah Green, was it Swap Shop? Something like that?
• 20:46
  And is it Brian Henson? The dog.
• 20:50
  That's right. Yes, you on there with the dog
• 20:52
  puppet and he's giving an interview as the dog and then
• 20:56
  the camera pulls back and it's him.
• 20:58
  And then she's talking to him about how he saw Masters, the
• 21:01
  puppet, but the bucket still moving.
• 21:04
  It is as like a dog. But that's all I can forward.
• 21:09
  I just found out was that was pretty astonishing.
• 21:11
  No, I found it was kind of a little bit of death.
• 21:15
  It was never repeated and I don't think.
• 21:17
  And there wasn't there wasn't enough of it.
• 21:19
  I think to really generate a huge amount of nostalgia for it,
• 21:23
  for example, I mean the quality is there but I just don't really
• 21:28
  think it kind of stayed in the in the popular memory in any
• 21:34
  great way. It certainly wasn't helped by
• 21:36
  now. Don't have been repeated and I
• 21:38
  think for a long time, because I think I was looking for, or
• 21:40
  hoping they'd be interviewing DVD quite some time before it
• 21:44
  finally emerged. I think, I think it's just a, an
• 21:47
  accident of of maybe bad timing. If it come out at a different
• 21:53
  time, might have been different. Who can say, you can say, and
• 21:59
  John her. We've got talk about John her
• 22:02
  because I can't, yeah, I think he's instrumental in this show,
• 22:06
  success. But I don't think that's an easy
• 22:08
  task to do, you know, to just be like, doing all these segues and
• 22:12
  narration, starting and ending these stories, but doing it with
• 22:16
  so much charm. And so much humor, I just came
• 22:20
  away. I already thought John Howe was
• 22:22
  a great actor. I came away from that saying is
• 22:24
  that the best acting I've seen you do like, oh yeah, well, he's
• 22:29
  one that he's wonderful in it and he's and he's clearly having
• 22:32
  a wonderful time. I could say, let's say that, you
• 22:35
  know, I can explore. He wanted to do more I can I
• 22:40
  yeah I can imagine they could ya sick, a second series with maybe
• 22:43
  that's another thing that the second series they switched but
• 22:47
  I think a second series might have meant there was enough to
• 22:51
  Warrant more repeats because it's just it's really a One-Shot
• 22:54
  and what's a one-and-done series but now he's fantastic in it.
• 22:57
  He's clearly having a wonderful time.
• 22:59
  And also I remember from his there's lots of material about
• 23:03
  about Labyrinth, both David Bowie and Jessica calmly took
• 23:11
  them a while. I had a hard time interacting
• 23:14
  with the puppets, but John, hurt's got no problem at all
• 23:18
  with the dog. And to be honest, all the actors
• 23:20
  in it, do wonderful job. But to be honest that they're
• 23:22
  all, they're all proper, bloody good, British theater actors.
• 23:27
  And that's that's that's fitter. You know, how long do you
• 23:31
  Hensler been at this game? At this point, because the
• 23:34
  puppetry in this was very sophisticated.
• 23:38
  Yeah. Well, he, this was eight. 87 88.
• 23:41
  Obviously he been developing the me done the Muppets since what
• 23:44
  the late 60s, early 70s, then the The Dark Crystal he was he
• 23:51
  worked on for four years and during the production for The
• 23:55
  Dark Crystal, he obviously created Yoda, he was too busy to
• 24:00
  play here at Nasa Frank. He said Frank Oz stepped in
• 24:03
  because originally, it was going to be voiced by Jim Henson.
• 24:07
  And then obviously, To do Labyrinth, which was unlike Dark
• 24:12
  Crystal, he was actors, interacting with puppets in a
• 24:15
  fairytale sitting setting. So, you know, so goblins,
• 24:20
  fairies and various other creatures and that so that was
• 24:23
  kind of in again, that was several years in the development
• 24:26
  because it had to be. So I think, you know, they were
• 24:29
  so that's, you know, so he done The Dark Crystal bottle that
• 24:32
  point, he'd done, Labyrinth obviously done the Muppets, but
• 24:35
  really, it was all the technology and know-how for Yet
• 24:39
  from really come from post Labyrinth, that kind of then
• 24:42
  gets fed into the Storyteller. I think, with the Advent of CGI,
• 24:48
  one of the unfortunate consequences.
• 24:50
  We don't see half as many puppets as we used to.
• 24:54
  It's itit'll almost a lost art but then I was kind of really
• 24:59
  pleased that Netflix did Dark Crystal age of resistance, which
• 25:04
  I enjoyed, but, you know, it's doing this, but they wouldn't
• 25:08
  have their product. They Even to have risked the
• 25:11
  investment on a, on a regional property.
• 25:13
  But then again, I think Labyrinth was labyrinth
• 25:17
  theatrically in the cinema was a flop, didn't it?
• 25:20
  Yeah, it got it got big on VHS and you know, afterwards home
• 25:25
  rentals, but it's failure. Really kind of Knocked Henderson
• 25:29
  a lot. That's my understanding.
• 25:32
  And so I kind of think the failure of Labyrinth dented in
• 25:36
  quite a bit and there were kind of, you know, No Justin's.
• 25:39
  I think in terms of morale there's a bit of a bit of a, you
• 25:44
  know, had an effect on his career in his Endeavors but the
• 25:47
  man was a genius and yeah, and just so too.
• 25:51
  My little to my little seven-year-old head, this was
• 25:55
  just the best thing ever. It was, you know, the kind of
• 25:58
  stuff you could. You imagine made flesh
• 26:01
  literally, it's really happening in camera and there is a weird
• 26:05
  sort of nightmarish dream. Feel about all of this.
• 26:09
  This isn't there? Oh yeah.
• 26:11
  Because if the fairy tales the genic yeah fairy tales a
• 26:14
  terrifying. Those the woods out there are
• 26:17
  dark and the mountains are cold and full of witches.
• 26:19
  So, you know, beware children while of as well is it that
• 26:23
  played by none of the rules that I'm used to in television as
• 26:25
  well. You know, you can kind of do its
• 26:27
  own thing. So, with every story, I didn't
• 26:31
  know where it was going because a lot all I kind of get what a
• 26:35
  fairy tale is and there's a moral to this.
• 26:38
  But, you know, I'm literally, I could not predict any not a
• 26:42
  single episode that was hard. Yeah, one thing I love about
• 26:45
  them as well about and about the old fairy.
• 26:47
  Tales of these adaptations is that you can have, you can have
• 26:50
  your happy ending for that really is the decision of where
• 26:53
  to enter the story and a lot of these go and that's the happy
• 26:57
  ending but we'll carry on with It and find out what happened
• 27:00
  later. We one thing I love about fairy
• 27:02
  tales isn't obviously, it varies between culture to culture, but
• 27:07
  obviously, you can tell an awful lot about a culture by how they
• 27:11
  begin their fairy tales because they're, they're all we know,
• 27:14
  all these folk tales, they know they're different from Village
• 27:16
  to Village, but in, we grew up with you and I would have grown
• 27:20
  up with them and they all lived happily ever after.
• 27:25
  Yeah. And that's, you know, but if you
• 27:27
  go to Russia, The end and they all lived happily ever after and
• 27:33
  died on the same day. I don't know.
• 27:36
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 27:39
  This year, there's not one fixed version of all these, but all
• 27:41
  these, all these cultural differences come out in the in
• 27:45
  the in the very interesting live in the in the differences in
• 27:49
  these other ways, very familiar things.
• 27:52
  So, it can take, just tells, you tells you where people's heads
• 27:54
  are at. And what's truly important, we
• 27:57
  were fed all these stories where younger and then they all blend
• 27:59
  in with and they all lived happily ever answer.
• 28:02
  After is why we're all so bloody disappointed as we get older.
• 28:06
  Yeah, because so many 131 things, happy ending.
• 28:09
  Yeah, Yeah well yeah could because it doesn't because it
• 28:12
  does, it only ends when you're dead and you know and the best
• 28:15
  you can hope for is not to lose those.
• 28:18
  You love by long and that's that's the that is The wisdom of
• 28:23
  and they died on the same day because it's ignore it.
• 28:27
  Ignore doing a truth about life, death and loss, that our culture
• 28:32
  where we just live happily ever after doesn't pet?
• 28:36
  Doesn't like to pay attention to, and it's those differences
• 28:39
  and that kind of stories out there to prepare you for pain.
• 28:42
  That that's kind of become my conclusion.
• 28:46
  The older I've got, is that stories are essentially there to
• 28:49
  give you the equipment to deal with the fact that Life is
• 28:52
  essentially Dreadful. Sorry
• 29:06
  was that weird baby death which is fucking chilling.
• 29:12
  Yeah yeah absolutely terrified him as a kid and second was
• 29:16
  that, that was the first time he can recall.
• 29:20
  Thinking about death as a concept, as a child.
• 29:24
  Yeah, it's funny because my introductions to John Hurt, were
• 29:28
  the Storyteller Watership Down the cartoon and that got me, you
• 29:34
  know, as a kid that got me thinking about death your pair
• 29:37
  of solo, you very much did that and the the AIDS public
• 29:42
  information film with the iceberg, John her again.
• 29:46
  So John John Hurt, you're not a cop.
• 29:50
  Operating presence. Yeah, sorry.
• 29:52
  I was a child. Yeah.
• 29:55
  But you know nothing everything is terrifying as a kid I
• 29:58
  suppose. But yeah, it's just a growing
• 30:00
  up. John Hurt was kind of the voice
• 30:03
  of Doom in many ways are there of a Wimpy Kid.
• 30:06
  You know, aren't your goblet. I would have been able to hack
• 30:09
  this as a child. But what Mark said to me earlier
• 30:12
  today was he said that's why the dog was so comforting as a
• 30:15
  child, you don't exactly. Yeah.
• 30:17
  And you cut back to the dog and he would just be sort of calm
• 30:20
  again and laughing and always a silly dog, you know, bother
• 30:23
  fire. Yeah.
• 30:25
  Yeah. And the other thing I love about
• 30:26
  the dog is the anachronistic American accent.
• 30:30
  Yeah. That was that to me that really
• 30:32
  helps because it kind, you know, because also helps it's you
• 30:36
  know, it's brown Henson's voices, you know, it sounds like
• 30:39
  Hoggle, you know, and the rest of it.
• 30:41
  But yeah, he kind of gives it that kind of that more, that
• 30:47
  American tinged feel which as an 80s kid.
• 30:49
  I don't know if that's if it's lasted, but it as a kid in the
• 30:53
  80s in my a head America was where you went, when you died,
• 30:57
  America was where it was that so you know, American accents were
• 31:01
  kind of, you know, kind of like a the blessing that this was
• 31:05
  okay. Somehow, it has robbed because I
• 31:08
  was at a friend's house, the other day and she's playing
• 31:10
  about with those little Al's. They've got these days and she's
• 31:14
  doing it all in an American accent.
• 31:15
  She's an English child and she's going, you know, hey, come on,
• 31:18
  kind of magic Uzi in my car and I was like, why is she talking
• 31:21
  an American accent? Because that's because I sold
• 31:23
  the TV. She watches his whole.
• 31:25
  Yeah. Actually, I've got, I've got
• 31:26
  American friends, whose, whose children watch Peppa Pig, and
• 31:31
  George George. Yeah.
• 31:32
  So yeah. I'll have got two more questions
• 31:35
  for you. Oh you're going for a cover and
• 31:38
  I then would like you to list the episodes that we are going
• 31:42
  to do confess. Yeah sure.
• 31:45
  My first question is this the amount of impressive guest stars
• 31:50
  that turn up in the Storyteller? I couldn't believe it.
• 31:53
  Jonathan Pryce, Miranda Richardson like the French and
• 31:58
  Saunders. Oh yeah, they made me.
• 32:00
  Of course they were playing like the wicked sisters one before.
• 32:03
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:03
  They have to do. They have to Sean Bean turns up?
• 32:08
  Okay, absolutely resplendent. My I say about.
• 32:11
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:13
  I started to shop re-watch not too long ago and I got mid 90s.
• 32:18
  He was was a look when it was beautiful.
• 32:22
  Yeah, don't see Sean Pertwee in there as well.
• 32:27
  Maybe I'll see Joely Richardson but, you know, as we get if we
• 32:30
  get to those will get to those but Quest was though is So,
• 32:34
  what's like your favorite turn in this?
• 32:37
  Who do you? Who do you think is the most
• 32:39
  impressive turn? Hmm.
• 32:44
  That's a, that's a, that's a tricky one.
• 32:46
  I do, maybe I want to for future episodes.
• 32:48
  I want to keep my powder dry about, which is my favorite
• 32:51
  episode because that's still to come, but I think reached in
• 32:59
  style actually in, in fear knots rather wonderful.
• 33:03
  Then again, so is Bob? Peck Miranda Richardson?
• 33:06
  Hell is he is he feels fear? Not yes.
• 33:09
  Lord. He's so Charming, isn't it?
• 33:11
  Yeah, then again, Brandon Richardson is wonderful and
• 33:17
  terrifying in this. I've been in love with her all
• 33:21
  my life but that's just that's the apropos of nothing but
• 33:24
  unlike even when she was Queenie and Blackadder specially when
• 33:28
  he's clean. Yeah, I think she's just
• 33:30
  amazing. I think she's I think she's
• 33:32
  wonderful. What I want and get it took your
• 33:35
  head off. I got such a cross from her
• 33:38
  anyway. Yeah.
• 33:41
  Okay, alright. Well I mean yes yeah.
• 33:52
  So across the board. Are they the director?
• 33:57
  The best special effects? Yeah, I am the best actors.
• 34:01
  But what about Anthology series as now?
• 34:05
  I when you first heard this, I was like, what the fuck we gonna
• 34:08
  talk about? This isn't an apology show, so
• 34:09
  there's no themes, there's no running character arcs.
• 34:13
  Then like, what the hell do you talk about with this thing?
• 34:16
  Well, there are other Anthology shows that you've that you've
• 34:19
  watched and enjoyed or is this sort of like a unique example.
• 34:25
  But off the top of my head, I can't really think of any ones I
• 34:27
  love. I mean, I I watch.
• 34:31
  So again, Twilight Zone stuff like that.
• 34:33
  Oh yeah. Eerie Indiana.
• 34:35
  I kind of watched and you know, I've watched you Hammer house of
• 34:38
  horror and stuff. I never liked to my was found in
• 34:43
  a Roald Dahl's tales of the unexpected, a bit weird and
• 34:46
  disturbing as a kid and yeah I'm watching.
• 34:51
  I'm watching Freddy's nightmares on, you know, back in the day as
• 34:56
  well. Yeah.
• 34:58
  Yeah he had a to show explaining a lot about, you know, the
• 35:01
  things you wash as a child. Oh yeah.
• 35:04
  Watch for opic up at like way too young.
• 35:08
  But yeah, I'm not I do yeah. And I can't really think of the
• 35:12
  top of my head. I mean I don't even consider
• 35:14
  this Anthology show some because I just I don't really think of
• 35:17
  it in terms in any other context and being it is what it is.
• 35:21
  I mean I mean just being a series of episodes with a very
• 35:25
  different story. Each time obviously has the main
• 35:27
  premise, as a Of the Gods telling the story, but it's not
• 35:32
  like a regular television show. Any with a core group of
• 35:35
  regulars that. Oh, hell yeah.
• 35:38
  There are equivalents to this. Did you ever watch Grimm Tales
• 35:42
  with Rik Mayall know? I was amazing.
• 35:45
  That's for might be. Again, around this period.
• 35:47
  Another one, I love that was a Rik Mayall in an armchair with
• 35:52
  ostrich legs. So not unlike probably a good
• 35:55
  Baba yaga's house and it was Rik Mayall a His his height telling
• 36:01
  Grimm's Fairy Tales but in a very, very Rick way or do that
• 36:05
  next time. Sure.
• 36:06
  Oh yeah, yeah, that's definitely worth way more budget.
• 36:13
  Way more poking in those and flicking, it the camera.
• 36:17
  Oh okay. Yeah, bit more, just brute, it
• 36:19
  was Rick with very messy hair in a Shabby dressing, gown in a, in
• 36:23
  an armchair, with wings and legs.
• 36:26
  Oh yeah, ostrich legs. Swings.
• 36:28
  I believe. Yeah, it's also an incredible.
• 36:31
  It was amazing. It was amazing.
• 36:33
  That I think you can still find episodes on YouTube if you're
• 36:35
  curious. But again, it was one of those
• 36:38
  other kind of artifacts from this period.
• 36:41
  That, you know, an old man getting nostalgic, but there is
• 36:45
  the was something quite special or just you know, fleeting about
• 36:50
  you will only watch this. If you manage to catch it on
• 36:52
  broadcast, another Wise, It's just lost in The Ether and
• 36:56
  that's the TV God's down to Eat it, you know, so they're what
• 36:59
  they're, you know, that period had that going for it somehow?
• 37:03
  Well of all the TV shows that people have chosen pounds for
• 37:06
  extra and it's sort of been a, I've got ten lined up initially
• 37:11
  and five of them. I know really.
• 37:13
  Well Buffy, The X-Files things like that and five of them are
• 37:16
  don't really even ever. Heard of, I don't know much
• 37:20
  about Mad Men. Someone's chosen, press gang was
• 37:23
  one as well. This was my biggest surprise.
• 37:28
  Not only because I never heard of it, but just because of how
• 37:31
  Bloody good it was, you know, I watched the first one, I've got
• 37:35
  a wedding to ago, thinking this is gonna be a bit old on a bit,
• 37:39
  a bit, then almost salted with all these incredible images and
• 37:46
  this really fabulous way of telling a story.
• 37:49
  So I want to say thank you because this doesn't know you're
• 37:52
  loved. You're welcome.
• 37:53
  I'm just I'm so glad he discovered it and Mark actually
• 37:56
  had it on your shelf. So you know that's that's
• 38:00
  brilliant. Well why don't you tell
• 38:01
  everybody then the five episodes that you have chosen for us to
• 38:05
  watch Okay, I can't remember exactly which one they were.
• 38:10
  But okay. I think it.
• 38:11
  I think the two are going to do today are the soldier and death
• 38:16
  and fear, not What the others were doing because they're at
• 38:24
  me. Okay, I'll wear do around this
• 38:26
  great. I've got the list.
• 38:30
  You definitely send me the list. That's the hard part was to
• 38:36
  really was choosing which ones not to do with the tricky bit.
• 38:40
  But the doing most of them are we, we are doing most that we're
• 38:45
  doing the heartless giant. I remember that.
• 38:51
  Our here. We got it.
• 38:52
  Right? Okay.
• 38:53
  I'll cut you in. How many are there?
• 38:59
  See seven or eight seven or eight so you've chosen six
• 39:07
  episodes of the app so you've only excluded to I feel a bit.
• 39:12
  Sorry for those two now but so I know me too.
• 39:14
  Me too. I'm going to ask.
• 39:16
  I'm basically going to ask you to just give me a very short,
• 39:20
  very short reason because obviously we're gonna go into a
• 39:22
  lot more depth in the commentaries themselves as to
• 39:25
  why these ones have been chosen. So the soldier and death The
• 39:29
  soldier and death is usually done that shown first.
• 39:33
  Its Stars, the late great Bob Peck and this one has a gaggle
• 39:40
  of Red Devils in it. It has been brilliant.
• 39:44
  Brilliant creations of Jim Henson's Creature workshop and
• 39:48
  so there was no way in hell that I could not have picked that
• 39:52
  one. I thought it, I think when those
• 39:54
  puppies, those Devils all around it.
• 39:57
  With the castle bad. My boots on The best pop Trail
• 39:59
  ever seen. It's me, yeah, it's amazing, and
• 40:03
  they're gambling. Oh, we'll get there.
• 40:06
  Okay, fear, not fear, not based on a Russian.
• 40:11
  No, no, it's based on a fixed based on German folk tale Stars
• 40:15
  briefs Tinsdale as as fear not and it's a Charming little
• 40:21
  story. But recently does performance is
• 40:24
  just so charming and wide-eyed. Innocent and endearing the yeah
• 40:31
  again be his for his performance.
• 40:34
  I think is why why why? I couldn't let that one go he's
• 40:39
  thankful and wide-eyed innocent sort of acting that can be
• 40:43
  really bloody annoying, you know in other things and he's not at
• 40:47
  all, he's just glorious and the the lovely simple premise of
• 40:51
  this guy called fear not it basically is never afraid and he
• 40:55
  just wants to shudder just once. It goes for all these scary
• 40:59
  trials to get their hair and the the moral of the story which I
• 41:03
  won't spoil here is marvelous. What about the Three Ravens?
• 41:11
  Three Ravens caramba, let me look it up.
• 41:17
  This is all this is all yeah. Well what about sex Fab sorrow?
• 41:21
  Then a current that one either it offers on My Head Bobby, let
• 41:25
  me down. Um, refresh my memory, now it's
• 41:35
  fine one sec, you will definitely want to cut this.
• 41:41
  Yeah, right. Okay.
• 41:42
  This is the third important that distant than temperament.
• 41:45
  Okay, look, child Looks really good short story.
• 41:53
  That's my Hedgehog 3 Rounds 6 based on six swans.
• 41:58
  Let's move Joely, Richardson, boundary L3 Ravens is Joel,
• 42:01
  Richardson, Richardson, Jonathan Pryce, sap sorrow is Awesome
• 42:07
  with Alison Duty in, isn't it? Yeah, it's not as John hideous,
• 42:13
  matted hair. Is that?
• 42:15
  That one can't remember off the top of my head?
• 42:20
  I remember when we get to them this is maybe it's not the best
• 42:23
  question to ask me because my answer is going to be because
• 42:26
  it's good. Yeah, yeah.
• 42:28
  Good. It's a good thing.
• 42:31
  You know. That's a good answer.
• 42:32
  I'll tell you what. I'll remove that question.
• 42:35
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty best
• 42:37
  photographs. Yeah.
• 42:39
  Well, we can get to the, we can get to rub.
• 42:42
  Would you care to take my hand and the scope me to the fire?
• 42:48
  What? Yeah, of course, of course you
• 42:50
  can. You can take the chair.
• 42:51
  I'll sit on the floor. It's fine.
• 42:53
  I'm gonna get it done. I've got a little dog biscuit
• 42:56
  here. That as long as you feed me,
• 42:59
  it's all good. Alright, let's get into it.