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Alex Murdaugh: 'THAT'S NOT ME" in Damning Video · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Hi, everybody the courtroom is
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  Speaker 1: on its lunch of recess that gerars have just filed
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  Speaker 1: out of the courtroom. And now this is what has
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  Speaker 1: happened today. First of all, I don't want to be
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  Speaker 1: the one to tell you. I want you to hear
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  Speaker 1: it from the judge's mouth himself in our cut seven. Well,
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  Speaker 1: the financial evidence was allowed on the issue of motive.
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  Speaker 1: This evidence, I find goes beyond motive or is not
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  Speaker 1: evidence of motive. And I believe this, as I stated,
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  Speaker 1: will be a bridge too far. It does not meet
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  Speaker 1: the logical relevant test. I agree with the defense that
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  Speaker 1: it would be admissible perhaps if the trial was the
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  Speaker 1: trial on the financial theft issues, but not on the murderer.
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  Speaker 1: So I grant the motion to exclude this evidence at
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  Speaker 1: this time. Okay, what did the judges say? He is
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  Speaker 1: saying that the testimony of Curtis Edward Smith aka cousin
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  Speaker 1: Eddie about the roadside shooting where Murdog allegedly agreed to
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  Speaker 1: have Curtis Edward Smith shoot him in the head so
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  Speaker 1: his son, his only surviving son, Buster Murdog could get
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  Speaker 1: millions and millions of dollars of less insurance. That's not
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  Speaker 1: coming in. He ruled it out. Newman has ruled out
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  Speaker 1: the roadside shooting evidence got all star panel. But first
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  Speaker 1: I want to go to Mark Tate, trial lawyer joining
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  Speaker 1: us from this Savannah jurisdiction, not too far from the
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  Speaker 1: Colleton County courthouse. You can find him at Taate Lawgroup
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  Speaker 1: dot com. I will tell you what he just did.
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  Speaker 1: He split the baby. That's what he did. Because there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of ways the roadside shooting could have come
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  Speaker 1: into evidence. For instance, hey, this guy Arnog he is
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  Speaker 1: not afraid to pull a gun if it means money
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  Speaker 1: in his pocket. That's what he did on the side
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  Speaker 1: of the road with cousin Eddie, and that's what prosecutors
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  Speaker 1: are saying he did to his wife and son. That's
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  Speaker 1: how I would have tried to get it in. Forget
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  Speaker 1: the financial motive. It is copycat same thing he had
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  Speaker 1: done he did to his wife and son. That's how
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  Speaker 1: I would have argued it, no matter who argued it
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  Speaker 1: till they're blue in the face. I don't think Newman
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  Speaker 1: was going to let it in. Ever. He's splitting the baby.
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  Speaker 1: He let in the financial testimony, and now he's excluding
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  Speaker 1: something he's balancing out the scales. What do you think.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's exactly right, and Nancy, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: Judge Newman, I think has really done a very good
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  Speaker 1: job in the case and allowing it evidence that's appropriate
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  Speaker 1: to show what the prosecution's argument is with regard to motive,
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  Speaker 1: even though they don't have to prove a motive for murder.
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  Speaker 1: This whole financial pressure evidence that they want to put
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  Speaker 1: on it's pretty lock solid. The evidence is pretty clear
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  Speaker 1: that Murdoll wasn't a lot of financial trouble, and then
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  Speaker 1: they used that to essentially bootstrap their theory that he
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  Speaker 1: was going to try to do this horrible thing to
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  Speaker 1: gain sympathy, which is a depraved mind to think in
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  Speaker 1: that fashion. But regardless of that, when we start talking
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  Speaker 1: about that we're going to get cousin Eddie to kill
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  Speaker 1: us so that our boy surviving child can get ten
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  Speaker 1: million dollars in life insurance, I think that that the
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  Speaker 1: judge is right about that. I don't think that it
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  Speaker 1: shows motive. I'm not saying it shows motive tape. Nobody's
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  Speaker 1: saying that shows a motive for a murder. That's not
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  Speaker 1: motive for murder because it happened after the murder, so
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  Speaker 1: it can't be motive for murder, but it does show
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  Speaker 1: frame of mind, course of conduct, a pattern, an m
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  Speaker 1: O motives, OPERENDI method of operation. Because when murdog is
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  Speaker 1: in a jam, what does he do? He pulls a gun?
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  Speaker 1: And I am not buying that total b s about
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  Speaker 1: oh I wanted to leave money to my son. I'm
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  Speaker 1: not buying that. I don't believe that if he wanted
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  Speaker 1: money for his children, he wouldn't have done any of
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  Speaker 1: the stuff that he did. I think this was a
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  Speaker 1: hair brained idea to throw blame off of him in
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  Speaker 1: the double murder and make it look like, hey, the
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  Speaker 1: killer came after me. I didn't recognize him. I was
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  Speaker 1: on the side of the road changing attire. He shot
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  Speaker 1: me in the head. Because if they want him dead
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  Speaker 1: for insurance money, cousin Eddie would have pulled the trigger
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  Speaker 1: a second time. Right now. I agree with you that
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  Speaker 1: it doesn't the whole getting some money thing, but I
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  Speaker 1: think that the prosecution argument, I think it fails. I
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  Speaker 1: think Newman did the right thing because he doesn't want
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  Speaker 1: to get reversed on something like this. The evidence has
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  Speaker 1: come in potentially, why he acted this way and now
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  Speaker 1: to bring in more it risks reversal. And we know
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  Speaker 1: this that no matter what happens in this trial that
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  Speaker 1: when or if there is a conviction, then Murdoch's going
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  Speaker 1: to prison for all of his financial crimes as well.
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  Speaker 1: And he has nothing but time to be courthouse lawyer
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  Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. And there's going to
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  Speaker 1: be appeals based on inadequate assistance of counsel. There's going
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  Speaker 1: to be every single fodeniary question appeal as well. I
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  Speaker 1: think just agree to because Chris McDonough joining me, former
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  Speaker 1: homicide detective for many many years, Director at the Cold
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  Speaker 1: Case Foundation, host of the Interview Room on YouTube. You
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  Speaker 1: can find him at Cold Case Foundation dot org. Chris,
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  Speaker 1: did you hear what Mark Tate just said? Don't bother
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  Speaker 1: an answer. I know that you did. If this guy
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  Speaker 1: Murdoch goes the way on theft, and even if it's
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  Speaker 1: eight million dollars a theft, you know darn well when
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  Speaker 1: the jail gets full of murderers and rapists and child
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  Speaker 1: molesters and drug lords, he is gonna go behind bars.
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  Speaker 1: He's gonna help people get their ged, He's gonna find
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  Speaker 1: religion he's gonna teach classes, he's gonna do everything right,
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  Speaker 1: and he will get out early. That's what's going to
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  Speaker 1: happen if he's convicted only on financial crimes. How many
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  Speaker 1: times McDonough have you seen a POC technical legal term
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  Speaker 1: walk out of jail? Early? A million? Maybe? Well, Nancy
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  Speaker 1: one thousand sent correct your analogy. I agree with you.
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  Speaker 1: In California just let seven thousand out recently, so that
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  Speaker 1: tells you your point is right on target, and I
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  Speaker 1: agree with you. I think the judge cut the baby
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  Speaker 1: in half here today, leveled the scales of justice and
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  Speaker 1: gave the defense a win on that particular issue. Actually,
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  Speaker 1: if he had to let one or the other into
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  Speaker 1: evidence and exclude the other, I think the financial motive
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  Speaker 1: may have even been stronger. I got to think that
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  Speaker 1: went through. But bottom line, for those of you just
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  Speaker 1: joining us, Newman dropped a bomb on us today. He excluded,
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  Speaker 1: did not allow in the evidence, the admitted evidence that
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  Speaker 1: cousin Eddie Curtis Edward Smith, long thought to be Mardog's
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  Speaker 1: dope supplier, that he shot him on the side of
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  Speaker 1: the road in a financial scheme. A jury will never
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  Speaker 1: hear it. Okay, let's take a look at what they
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  Speaker 1: did here, Christine, could you just kick it off with
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  Speaker 1: cut three. We were afraid, We didn't know what was
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  Speaker 1: going on. My family was scared. I was scared for
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  Speaker 1: Elick Buster. I felt like they needed protection. I think
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  Speaker 1: everybody was afraid. And Eli didn't seem to be afraid.
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  Speaker 1: Man talk about a pregnant pause. I thought she'd quit talking,
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  Speaker 1: but her words were I think everybody was afraid. Long pause.
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  Speaker 1: And Alex did not seem to be afraid. Why because
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  Speaker 1: he knew no one else was in danger. Because he's
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  Speaker 1: the killer. That's why he was not afraid. He knew
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  Speaker 1: who the killer was. Sees him every time he shaves
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  Speaker 1: in the morning, every time he looks in the mirror.
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  Speaker 1: He wasn't afraid. Guys, thank you for being with us
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  Speaker 1: the juries on a lunch break right now, we're trying
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  Speaker 1: to cram in as much as we can to catch
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  Speaker 1: you up with what all has been going on since
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  Speaker 1: we last spoke. This is Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here at Fox Nation in
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  Speaker 1: series six one eleven and what a panel of stars.
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  Speaker 1: Let me go right now to start her own right,
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrist joining us oide of the
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  Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Did you
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  Speaker 1: hear that this woman was in tears, afraid her sister
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  Speaker 1: had been gunned down in the dog shed, her nephew
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  Speaker 1: had been gunned down, brutally gunned down. It's like someone's
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  Speaker 1: taken out hits on the family. She's scared, silly, she's
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  Speaker 1: sick with fear that the other nephew, Buster is going
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  Speaker 1: to be murdered. But Guessie was not afraid at all.
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  Speaker 1: Alex murdaged doctor Angie and Nancy. I believe. So the
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  Speaker 1: whole time, I'm thinking about what is the jury going
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  Speaker 1: to remember about all of this? The jury is going
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  Speaker 1: to remember that pregnant pause, aren't they. So whatever whatever
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  Speaker 1: is being left out, whatever baby is being cut out,
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  Speaker 1: cut in half, the jury is going to remember the
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  Speaker 1: pregnant pause and the tears that she was shedding. That
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  Speaker 1: was so powerful. That was such a powerful testimony that
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  Speaker 1: she made today. And you know what else I like
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  Speaker 1: about this witness. Let me go back to Mark Tate.
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  Speaker 1: He's a veteran trial lawyer. I'm going to try and
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  Speaker 1: mirror a little bit of what doctor Angela Arnold just
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  Speaker 1: said about this witness. You could not have hired an
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  Speaker 1: actress to portray what she portrayed on the stand. And no,
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  Speaker 1: she was not a drama queen. There was no wailing
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  Speaker 1: and crying and getting dizzy, And no, she was perfectly
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  Speaker 1: calm and poised. She cried, she tried to conceal her tears.
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  Speaker 1: She wasn't putting on a show, at least it didn't
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  Speaker 1: seem like she was. She's very believable. She had a
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  Speaker 1: quiet dignity about her. I thought, yeah, I thought she
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  Speaker 1: was an excellent witness, maybe after the I guess maybe
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  Speaker 1: the sled officer we heard. I think she was a
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  Speaker 1: fantastic witness, and I think she's devastating. And I think
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  Speaker 1: the point of who's scared about what's happening with this family,
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  Speaker 1: and that Alec seemed like he was okay from her estimation,
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  Speaker 1: I think that's something that's going to really really come
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  Speaker 1: home with the jury and when they're deliberating, And that
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  Speaker 1: to me is something that would be very worrisome if
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I was defending Alec Murdoch, I wouldn't like there's a
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  Speaker 1: lot of things about defending this case that seemed very,
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  Speaker 1: very very difficult. And when you're trying a case like
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  Speaker 1: our Polian is trying, you really have to try to
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  Speaker 1: take it one bite at a time, because you know,
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  Speaker 1: the way you eat an elephant, you got to start
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: one bite at a time. And he's got an elephant here.
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  Speaker 1: I've never really thought about it that way, about eating
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: an elephant and in danger species. But okay, I thought
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you were going to say this witness, this is Maggie's sister.
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  Speaker 1: We've heard I've heard a lot online whereas Maggie's family, Well,
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  Speaker 1: this sister was set to testify, and I believe she's
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  Speaker 1: been kept kept She did stay out of court during
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  Speaker 1: the other testimony, whether she was forced to or not.
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  Speaker 1: But she reminded me in some ways of the caregiver
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  Speaker 1: for Libby Murdoch, Alex Murdock's mother, who was afraid, she
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: broke down and quite on the stand because she thought
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  Speaker 1: she was going to lose her job. And that would
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  Speaker 1: have been Michelle Shelley Smith, who I thought was an
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  Speaker 1: incredible witness and very very believable. Guys, this witness, I'm
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  Speaker 1: telling you, this woman is awesome. I want you to
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  Speaker 1: hear more of what Maggie's sister Marian Proctor says on
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  Speaker 1: the stand Take a list an hour cut one. Did
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  Speaker 1: you have any conversation with Alec about what had happened?
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  Speaker 1: I didn't talk to Ella a lot. Elec was just
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  Speaker 1: really busy and the whole town was coming to see him,
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  Speaker 1: and he was very, very, very torn up. I did
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  Speaker 1: at one point ask him if Maggie had suffered, and
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  Speaker 1: he assured me that she did not. Now I don't
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  Speaker 1: no that I think that's true. And I asked him
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  Speaker 1: Paul had suffered, and he said no. And then later
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  Speaker 1: I asked him, I said, Alec, do you have any
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  Speaker 1: idea who's done this? I said, we have got to
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: find out who's tie who could do this, And he
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  Speaker 1: said that he did not know who it was, but
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  Speaker 1: he felt like whoever did it had thought about it
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  Speaker 1: for a really long time. I just didn't know what
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  Speaker 1: that meant. Straight out to doctor Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist,
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  Speaker 1: medical examiner, former detective, and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide,
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  Speaker 1: Doctor Dupre, thank you for being with us. This is
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: your neck of the woods, doctor Dupre, joining us from
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  Speaker 1: South Carolina. Doctor Dupree, did you hear that, Nah, she
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  Speaker 1: didn't feel anything. Really, how would he have known that?
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Because that one question, to this day will drive me
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  Speaker 1: to distraction. I wonder did my fiance say know what
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: was happening to him when he was shot five times?
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  Speaker 1: What did he feel? Was it so quick? He felt nothing?
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  Speaker 1: But the awful truth is I think he did feel
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  Speaker 1: a lot of it, and I think he suffered. But
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: here murder August say, Nash, you didn't feel anything? What? Nancy?
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  Speaker 1: Doesn't that say a lot? I mean, you want to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: tell the loved ones that they didn't feel anything. But
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: he says it apparently in such a flippant way, and
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: it makes you wonder. In addition, he says that somebody
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: thought about this for a long time. Well, I think
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: alex Or allegedly did think about this for a long
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: time because I think it was planned, and I think
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: that you can see that in a lot of his testimony.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: You know, another thing that he said repeatedly is that
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: he wanted to clear Paul's name. Okay, Paul's already dead. Translation,
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  Speaker 1: I don't want to pay out a big fat settlement
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: to Mallory Beach's family. That's another thing that was preoccupying
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: his mind after the murders of his wife and side
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  Speaker 1: Take a lesson hour cut too and the days and
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: weeks following Maggie and Paul's murder, did alec I ever
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: say anything about the boat case? We would talk about
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the boat case, and he was very intent on clearing
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Paul's name. What did he say? He said that msnber
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: number one goal was clearing Paul's name. And I thought
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that was so strange because my number one goal was
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: to find out who killed my sister and Paul. But
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: that wasn't Alex's concern, main concern. I know he, I
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: know who he. I know he must have wanted that too,
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: but it's just I don't know how he could have
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  Speaker 1: thought about anything else. And more in that same vein
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: taking us an Hour Cut four, she's further describing murdogs
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: seeming indifference towards finding Maggie and Paul's killer. You're not
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: critical of Alex four warning to clear Paul's name after
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: he was murdered, Dan r. I am not critical about
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  Speaker 1: that at all. I think that was his way of
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: honoring Paul after he was gone. I just thought his
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: priorities should have been focusing on finding out who killed
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  Speaker 1: Maggie and Paul. And how do you know that wasn't
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: a priority for We never talked about finding the person
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  Speaker 1: who could have done it. It was just odd. We
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: were sort of living in fear because we thought this
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: horrible person was out there and we didn't. We were
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: mostly afraid for Alec and Buster, but we didn't know
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the motive behind the killings. We thought it probably had
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: something to do with boatcase, and we thought that up
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  Speaker 1: until September, and then things started to change a little bit.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: And right then, Christine, she cut that off, right when
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  Speaker 1: all the lawyers go ob Jackson, Jackson, stop, stop, stop,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: because what happened in September was when Alex Murdog arranged
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: to have himself shot by cousin Curtie Curtis Edward Smith
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: on the side of the road. And that is what
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: changed her thinking about who may have murdered her sister
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: and her niece. And another thing, Tate, I want you
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to listen to this LATINXT bit of sound, because you
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: know what all their talk about happy family. I told you,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Dake that if you looked hard enough, you would find
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: a girlfriend, a mistress, a something connected to Alex and
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Murdock take lest an hour cut five. Was that something
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: that remained in Maggie's mind over the years up until
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: she would know that? I think that if I asked
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: her that question, she could express an answer to that, Yes, sir,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: what is the answer to that it was an affair
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: that happened, or Maggie thought it was an affair that
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: happened many years ago? They were able to resolve the issues,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: but Maggie still brought it up as recently as when
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: a year ago she did not think anything was going on.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: She just it still bothered her, all right. Yes, during
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: when that had been occurred, did she make Alec leave
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the household for a period of time? She did crime
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace? Was that something that remained in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Maggie's mind over the years up until she would know that?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: I think that if I asked her that question, she
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: could express an answer to that, Yes, sir, what is
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: the answer to that it was an affair that happened
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: or Maggie thought it was an affair that happened many
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: years ago? Um They were able to resolve the issues,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: but Maggie still brought it up. That was recently as
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: when a year ago. She did not think anything was
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  Speaker 1: going on. She just it still bothered her. Oh yeah, yes,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: during when that event occurred, that she make Alec leave
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the household for a period of time. She didn't. Now
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: the problem with this is, I don't believe the jury
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: was present. Hey, I'm hearing in my ear. An Emerson
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: is joining us right now, Senior investigative reporter WCIV, ABC
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: News four. She is also the star of Unsolved South Carolina,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: the Murdoike Murders, Money and Mystery podcast. And I don't
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: believe the jury was there when Maggie's sister talked about
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: the affair, the infidelity. That's correct, Nancy, Hi, Yes, So
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: that was a movement that you were just playing before
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: where there was an objection. They took the jury out
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  Speaker 1: of the room and said, Okay, we got to talk
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: about what's going on, and the judge wanted to hear
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: what was going on. He wanted to hear what Maggie's sister,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Marian had to say about this. So they let Marian
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Proctor speak without the jury present in order for the
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: judge to make a clearer decision about what he wanted
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: to do with some of these issues that were coming up,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: one of which was this alleged affair that Alec was
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: having fifteen years ago. That was the first thing that
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: he was sort of looking at whether or not he
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: would be allowing that testimony. He decided, no, that was
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: not going to go in front of the jury. It
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: was what's passed was passed, and that was just too
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: far out of the realm for Helm. But there was
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the roadside shooting, of course, because she was talking about
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: leading up to September, right, So we just got to
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: that moment again in September when the assisted botched suicide
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: attempt with Addie Smith. All of these revelations were coming
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: to light in September, so the judge decided to move
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: it into today, so we have new information about what's
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: happening with that roadside shooting in and where the testimony
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: went to today. So long story Shore, the jury as
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: it stands right now, is not going to hear about
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Curtis Edward Smith shooting Murdog at Murdog's request. As it
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: stands right now, that's not going to come in to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: doctor Angela Arnold Psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: jurisdiction After all that time it's still bothered Maggie Murdog
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: that Alex cheated on her, sexually cheated on her. And
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I'm an armchair shrink, but a lot of people would
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: have said, you know what, it happened a long time ago.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: We have worked through it, we're fine. But I believe
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: it's bothered her up until the time she died because
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: other things triggered her mistrust. And when one thing happens
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: after the next, after the next, you can't help but
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: have that old wound be reopened. Doctor Angie, Well, I
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: completely agree with you, Nancy. First of all, if anybody
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: believes that anyone ever gets over an affair, they they've
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: never dealt with us, Okay, So typically no one ever
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: gets over there they're significant other having an affair, it's
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's they cheated on them. It's a it's a level
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: of mistrust, and then that trust has to be brought
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: back into the relationship. So certainly if there are other
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: things going on, and it does sound like she was
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: finding out other things along the way, and so that
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: just it just continues to dig at that hole of
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: mistrust that he that he placed inside of her. So
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of course it's gonna allegedly allegedly. Yes, we haven't had
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Murdoch ad minute, and the lady question has not presented herself.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So these are Maggie suspicions. I don't know what brought
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: about her suspicion, but she believed it for several years,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: and you know, and I don't know. I thought it
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: was the one time day or many times? What whether
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Newman's right about what I was just saying. The question
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: is is Newman? Did Newman make the right decision in
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: excluding evidence of a fifteen year old affair? And what
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: he's got to decide is whether that's going to be
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: something that's potentially so prejudicial as to make it so
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the jury cannot make an unbiased decision. That is that
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: evidence that is an out of court fact being testified
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: too in court to prove that that happened, to prove
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the affair happened. Is that going to be something that's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: going to prejudice this jury so badly against Murdoch that
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: they're going to find him guilty because of reasons other
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: than his guilt. And so Newman decided that a fifteen
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: year old affair that we don't have any evidence in
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: court of other than what this wonderful witness has to
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: say about what she believed the decedent thought. I think
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: that he made the right decision. That's too prejudicial, and
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing that we're layering one weird
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: thing on top of another on this Alec Murdoch guy.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And we know this. You know, weird is not a murderer,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: and there's plenty of evidence that the prosecution has success
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: put on hold on. I don't know that that would
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: hold up to the transitive law of mathematics. Weird does
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: not make a murderer, but a murderer is always weird.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So I'll let you put that. All I'm saying. I mean,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: we don't want to Murdoch has a reason to have
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: an appeal that may be that may result in a
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: reversal of a conviction. And so Newman really wants to
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: make sure that when this prosecution rests, and that after
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Harpoolian defends this man, and he will as best he
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: possibly can, that when and if there is a conviction,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that that conviction stands and that there's not a reversal
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: on some evidentiary thing that Newman got wrong. And so
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I think that he's weighing, you know, fairly conservatively, and
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: has let in the evidence that supports the prosecution's theory
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: of motive. I think that he's held things out that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: tend to, arguably from at least from from Harpulian standpoints,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: going to be unduly prejudicial. And I think he's allowed
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: the prosecution hut on a very strong case once they rest. Okay,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: can we get back to the testimony answer. The law
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: is really clear to just boil it down very easily.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: If you've got a bad act that doesn't go to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: motive course of conduct scheme, that's frame of mind, um
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: monasaw perenda, and plus it's attenuated in time. It's not
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: coming in there bam there fifteen years ago and may
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the murders, so it didn't
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: come in. It's really really simple. But I like hearing
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: you throw around all those Latin phrases once in a while,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: Mark Tate. So I'm going to get back to home.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to make you, Nancy feel more comforted. I
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: feel pretty good. I'm trying, Dan Emerson. You know what
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I thought was really impactful. It's when the sister Maggie's
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: sister Marian Proctor on the stand, was describing the last
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: time she talked to Maggie as she broke down crying
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: because you explained to everybody what happened. Oh that was
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: so heartbreaking too. We see, first of all, we feel
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: like we're hearing Maggie through Marion as well, because they
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: looked so similar, don't they. They really are two peas
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and up hide. This is her only sister, her older sister,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: which I think it's important because that's always a protective role.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And so she's on the stand and she's talking like
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: they do all the time, right, two sisters on the phone,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: and she's like, should I or shouldn't I go? Maggie
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: loves the beach. Maggie wants to say it edis and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: then Marian is like, no, he wants you to come
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: go with him, go with him, go see him and
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: moselle he's dealing with his dad. And so you hear this,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: this unbelievable regret that comes forth. She starts to cry
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and they pull they tease this part out really and say,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: this is the last time you spoke to her, Yes,
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: you encouraged her to go, and she just it just
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: killed her and she said, yes, I encouraged Maggie to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: go to Moselle that day, and I think it broke
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: everybody's heart in the jury box. And I was watching
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: what was going on, you know, Marian Proctor when she
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: came in with her husband Bart, she was sitting next
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: to the victim's advocate on the prosecution side. She was
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: not making eye contact with the family that was sitting
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in the back row. She wasn't looking at John Marvin
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: or Liz Murdoch or you know Buster. She was looking
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: straight ahead. But boy, when she said that, I saw tears.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I saw tears across the whole Murdock side. It was
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: it was just too much to bear. But I'll tell
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you and Nancy, you know how this case has been
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: coming through and we've just been connecting the dots. We've
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: been tying together these loose threads, and that's what the
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: prosecution's job is to do. And I'm starting to see
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a clear picture of why they were teasing that painful
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: emotional part out from Marian Proctor, and that was because
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the prosecution was holding some cards still about what they
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: knew that Alec Murdoch was going to say about that
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: last Why Maggie was at Moselle. Why Maggie was really
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: at Moselle. And so we were learning a little bit
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: more about that, and I can't share that way with
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: you as well. But as far as Marian Procter, when
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: she got up there and did that, boy, that just
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that really brought the house down, there wasn't there wasn't
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: a person who didn't feel so sorry for her. Right then? Yeah,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: you know, doctor Angie Arnold joining us. Can you imagine
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the guilt the sister carries around to this day? She
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: wrote down crying on the stand because Maggie called Marian
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Proctor and said, well, he wants me to come out
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to Moselle, the Hunting Lodge. I don't want to go.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: I want to stay here. Remember they were living apart.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But Alex says, you know, we're going to go visit
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: his father. His father, mister Randolph, is not doing well.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: He's going to die. So the sister says, you should
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: really go, you should go, basically sending her to her death.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: But how could the sister know that The sister had
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: no way of knowing that Nancy, the sister never knew
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that she was sending her sister to her death, and
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: I hope that she can find some help to get
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: over the guilt that she could possibly feel for that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I believe her sister thought that she was doing the
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: right thing. They were living apart. She wanted to help her.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: She was encouraging her sister and supporting her sister in
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: helping her with her marriage, which wasn't very good at
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: this point apparently, so she didn't send her to her death.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: She was trying to be a good supportive sister to
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: help her sister in a very difficult decision. Guys, a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: lot happening in the courtroom. I want you to listen
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: now to what happened when Alex Murdoch was asked about
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: that Snapchat video. Remember the damning Snapchat video that Paul
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: took just minutes before the murders. They were out of
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: the kennel and you can hear Alex Murdog's voice in
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: the background. So he's confronted with a snapchat Oh, can
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: you only guess what he said? Take a listen our
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: cut eight. There is a video on poles Foaming of
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: you and him on the farm that night, and you
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: were in katy pants and a dress shirt, you're playing
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: with a tree. I don't played with a tree. Yeah,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I guess there was a tree, sapling or something that
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: was had fallen over or bending over and you were
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: trying to get it to stand back, stand up. But
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I mean the question, and that is when I met
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: you that night, you were in shorts and a T shirt.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: At what point and that even did you change clothes?
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. You know, it would have been before dinner,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: after dinner, now it would have been, But what time
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: of day was that I would have thought that had
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: already changed. There's not a time? Is he asking you
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: now what time that picture was? Yes, sir, okay, I
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: was stap on it because there's so many posts, but
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I want to say it looks to be about the dusk.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: So that again, o'lock, I guess that changed when I
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: got back to the house. He is being asked about
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: the snapchat video where he's wearing one thing in the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: afternoon and something else after the murders. We learned a
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: lot about that from the housekeeper that claims she never
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: saw those clothes again. They were disposed of somewhere along
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the way. I love the way he did that out
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: to you Chris mcdunnah, joining US former homicide investigator and
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Miami Dade has handled I would say three or four
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: hundred homicide investigations. You can find them on the interview room.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnah. Did you hear Alex murdock? He said, what now?
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Let me see. That must have been I don't know,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: some time in the afternoon, b s mcdonnah. He's like,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: oh crap. They realize I changed clothes. I mean, did
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: you see him acting like he was thinking about it
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: and the whole time in his head the wheels are turning.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: They figured that out, didn't they. Yeah, and Nancy san Diego,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: by the way, and that this is classic classic deception.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: He all of a sudden finds himself in an AHA
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: moment is what we'll call that. And remember a couple
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: of things here. This investigative team is slow and steady
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: up to this point. They've had a couple of interviews
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: with him in the car, and now they've got him
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: into a controlled environment. And also they realize this is
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: an experienced trial lawyer who brings a lawyer who has
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: assembled a team of lawyers to strategize about this investigation.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: And so I would submit to you. This was one
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: of those moments where they had not calculated that Paul
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: had taken that video early on showing his clothing and
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: so notice one thing. He asked a question with a question,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: So he answers a question with a question. That is
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: one of those moments where you just go okay, that's
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: an experienced interviewer who absolutely led him. Write to the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: trough to drink. Guys, let's hear that one more time.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: Now that we've analyzed it a little bit. I can't
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: wait to hear what Mark Tate has to say about this.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: No legal terms, no Latin legal terms. Tait, if you
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: can control, you're nothing to say. Let's take as it's
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: going to be English. It's gonna be very plaining. It's
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: gonna help everybody out learn how to deal with the
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: problems in the view. Take a listen to our cut
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: eight one more time and watch Murdog during this questioning.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: There's a video pulse of you and him on the
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: farm that night. You were in khaki pants and a
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: dress shirt. You were playing with a tree. I don't
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: played with a tree. Yeah, I guess there was a tree,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: sapling or something that was had fallen over or bending
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: over and you were trying to get it stand back,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: stand up. But I mean the question, and that is
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: when I met you that night, you were in shorts
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and a T shirt. At what point and that even
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: did you change clothes? I'm not sure you know, it
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: would have been before dinner, after dinner, now it would
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: have been at what time of day was that I
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: would have thought that had already changed. There's not a time?
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: Is he asking you now what time that picture was? Yes?
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I was stap on it because there's so many posts.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: But I want to say it looks to be about
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the dusk, so that again, seven to eight o'clock. I
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: guess I changed when I got back to the house. Yeah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I guess what time of the day was that. I
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: don't remember anything like that, you know, doctor Angie Arnold,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I've never known of a grown man having so many
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: wardrobe changes. I haven't had a single wardrobe change since
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: they got up this morning when I when I put
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: on my word clothes. So here we've got Murdog having
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: a wardrobe change, and darn can't remember that. He can
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: remember so many other details, but not that I'm telling you, Nancy.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: It's telling I think this man is digging his own grave.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: It's people can see the way he's acting in this,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: in all of this, can't they? And the changing of
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the clothes, and now the clothes are missing and oops,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: I don't remember I mean, did he have a stroke
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: in between changing his clothes? Who doesn't remember these things? Right?
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: And Nancy, she's And this is why you never ever
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: talk to the police. The police had already decided he
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: was going to jail when they started that interview. They
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: asked him a hostile question. Take all right, Take, They've
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: already got a defense team, so you know they don't
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: care about Hey, But I'm going right now point it out.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to help your viewers. You're talking about the
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: cops having to vision. That's not even what we're talking about.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: We're talking about men. Point is exactly that he dug
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: his own grave. So don't dig your own grave. Don't
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: talk to the police. They're not there to help you.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: They're there to lock you up. This is Crime Stories
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: on Fox Nation. This is not an infomercial. No matter
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: how many cases you have won, for bad guys to
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: come and hire you, you don't need to tell all
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: the bad guys out there don't talk to the cops.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You think they don't already know that. But yeah, okay, Danna,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: you're right, But I was trying to get out what
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: murdog did the little guy who's falsely as well, That
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: would not be Nancy. Look as I can tell, go ahead,
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: please help me out, Dancy. Nancy. Okay. So look back
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: at that interview and look at his posture, look at
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: his body language again. He is in a very defensive posture.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: His arms are folded across his lap, and they're they're
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: almost always folded across his lap, except a few times
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: he will reach and try to open up a little
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: bit and grab his knees. But the vast majority of
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that entire interview he is basically defending himself with those
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: folded arms. That says a lot, you know, And mcdonnah
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: is this mcdonnah talking. I was just going to go
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: to you and Angie because I haven't really thought this
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: through clearly, and I know you and Angie accused me
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: of projecting, and you're right, but you know, a lot,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: a lot after my fiance's murder was blurish. It's a blur,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: but my movements up until that moment and this was
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: decades ago, up until the moment I learned he had
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: been shot dead. I remember crystal clear exactly what happened.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I came out of a statistics exam. It was dark
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: inside the building, it was light outside when I opened
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: the doors. I walked across campus carrying my books. I
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: stopped at a pay phone to call my job in
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: the library and tell them I was late on the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: exam and I was getting there. I remember it all
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: very clearly. I remember the phone booth. But yet Murdo
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: can't remember anything that happened Chris McDonough leading up to
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: the murders. Yeah, and Nancy, I mean, trauma will slow
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: everything down, and those moments will be ingrained in your
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: memory for a lifetime. You know what, We've not heard
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: one sentence out of his mouth yet, and that's who
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: murdered my family? Not one time through the entire process here.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: I've never had a victim's family not ask me who
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: murdered their loved one. And I saw that telling very
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: telling quickly, And as he's starting to part a lot
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of information by asking questions on top of questions, Yeah,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: you know what, what about that? Tate? Mark Tate joining
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: me from the Tate log group in the Savannah Jurisdiction
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Mark he never once says, hey, instead of worrying about
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: me changing clothes, who the h E double l shut
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: my wife and my son. I never see any of that. Man.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I'd be laying on the courthouse steps screaming that I
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: wanted justice. He never does a darned thing. Yeah, never, No,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: You're exactly right, and that's why he was a terrible
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: witness against himself. And let me tell you we've seen
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: another instance right here in Georgia when a lawyer hired
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: his wife murder. If you remember Fred Tokars back a
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: few years back, had his wife shot guns sadly and
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: he yeah, Sarah and us shot right in front of
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: their children, and yes, and he waved the funeral. It
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: was awful, and so tears can be lie obviously. But yeah,
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Murdoch did not help himself in this interview. And I
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: know you don't like it. I know you don't like it,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: but Nancy, there was no defending himself in that interview.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: The only defense to being interviewed interview. That's the same
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: as the Okay, I want you to hear another thing.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog says when he is confronted with snapchat video
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: his son politic another video that was taken that day.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut ten. If you confronted
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: him with what you're about asking prior to this, no,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I had not the question you had just asked him,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: did that deal with whether he went down to the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: kennels or not after supper? Correct? And he said he
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: had not. He had not, that he was hurt in
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the background, and you were hurt in the background, and
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I was prior to none. Yeah, I heard Rogan Gibson
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: asked me if I was up there. He said he
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: thought it was me? Was you and at nine? No,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: sir not. If my times are right, can anythink of Coo?
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: I have no idea. And Roban has been around your
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: family for pretty much all his life. Absolutely, and he
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: recognizes your voice and you have a distinct voice. You
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: think of anybody else then else the voice somewhere the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: wars that he may have us. So this is actually
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: the video. Hey, Christine, could you run that video, the
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: video that Paul took, not the snapchat, the video he
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: took at the kennels. Can you play it with sound? Christine?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Get it? Get that quick. Guess quick the post. Kay,
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: ain't got burns now ba hey blaa, it's a guinea.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: There's a chicken. Come I cash cash quick Crime stories
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, get it, get that quick cash quick ship. Okay,
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Hey Burdens, now, hey, it's a guinea. There's a chicken.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Come quick. Up. You are seeing and hearing the video
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and you hear that third voice in the background. I've
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: heard it before where you could hear it even more loudly.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Now in the last sound that we played for you,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Murdoch is denying it's his voice in the kennel video
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: during a police questioning straight out to Ann Emerson, senior
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: investigative reporter joining us from wc I V ABC an,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: what was the jury do they when they see Murdock
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: denying that was him? Well, they're paying a lot of attention.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: They're paying a lot of attention. And you know, the
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: other important thing to note in this is that this
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: the agent when he is questioning him in August, has
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: not actually seen this video. This is what Rogan Gibson,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: the friend of Paul, had actually pulled the had alerted
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: SLED agents that he had been speaking with Paul just
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: before these murders, met them at a corner store nearby
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: soon as soon as he possibly could after the murders
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: the day after, to tell them about this audio and
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: video that he heard Alec Murdoch's voice on on this video,
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: So that is what they're hearing about. So you you
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: absolutely saw they were leaning in, they were listening, you know,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: some of the some of the tape from Alec about
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: you know, when he's in that room talking on this
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: third sled interview is hard to hear sometimes, so on
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: top of that, you know, the at one the judges like,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: please turn it up. We need to be able to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: hear every single thing that's coming out of his mouth
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: right now. So they literally turn up the video and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: the and the jury is listening to everything that's being
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: set and not set at that point. And one of
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the things he said, of course, was I don't yeah,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know about this, Like no, what did he
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: say exactly? He said, no, no, no, I don't think
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: that's me. I don't think that's me. It's like, what,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: but we we just had how many of your closest friends,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: including Paul's friends, including uh, your Marian's husband, your brother
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: in law, they've all said that it's you, Alec, that
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: this is your voice on the video, you know. So
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: we're jumping in the timeline a little bit because we
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: know at that point that agent hasn't actually seen this video,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: but we've already he's already heard from Rogan that this
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: is Alex Voyson. He's taking his word at it, and
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: he's asking Alec about it. So it's fascinating because this
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: is still what like seven months before actually were able
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: to unlock Paul's phone and confirm what Rogan said and
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: then be able to compare it with what Alex said
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: in this interview in August of twenty twenty one. Guys
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: who got more of what Alex told Flats howth Carolina
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division. Now Here he is telling another whopper
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: that he was at his mother's house up to an
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: hour the night of the murders. Take a listen to
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: our cut nine Hollong, could you say you reach your laws?
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: Had you talked to Shelley Smith at this point she
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: had been interviewed, Jess, I had not spoken Winter by
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: that time. Hey, Christine, do you mind re racking that?
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: I want to hear it again? He says it right
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: up front, they question, how long would you say you
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: were at your mom's He says forty five minutes an hour.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Let's hear that one more time. Christine plays hellong, could
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you say your laws? Had you talked to Shelley Smith
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: at this point she had been interviewed, Jess, I had
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: not spoke the winter by that time, So this is
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: significant to me. Chris McDonough and I truly believe, having
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: tried so many cases, as you've investigated so many cases,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: that from each piece of evidence, very often you can
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: end up proving a lot. So not only do we
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: see him saying that he was at his mom's house
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: up to an hour, you have to question why why
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: would he lie about that? Because he already knew the
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: timeline he needed to be at his mom's house at
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: the time of the murders. So he is looking at
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Slad right in the face and lying the motive from
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's one thing, Oh, I'm just mistaken, but
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: he knew, he knew how long he had been there,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: and he lied about it. And the jury has got
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to ask why did he lie about how long it
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: was at his mom's Yeah, and also they have to
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: ask why did he try to intimidate that witness to
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: change her story about that timeline, because he knew exactly
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: what you're saying, Nancy. He knew he had to tie
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: him or separate himself a little bit further from that
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: crime scene that evening, and this is one of the
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: ways to do it. Unfortunately for him is some of
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: the vehicle data that came back on the suburban tied
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: that time frame a little bit tighter, which put him
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: into a precarious situation. Her. Guys, we are trying to
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: take your questions and your ideas as many as we can.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: Karen Mitchell asks, why are they allowing the roadside shooting?
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Judge Newman just ruled the roadside shooting is not allowed
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: in that it's too gosh, I would say, prejudicial. He
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: is not going to let the jury hear about it
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't go to motive. I think it should
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: have been introduced to show course of conduct and modus operandi.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: In other words, when he's in a jam, he'll pull
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a gun, but it's not going to be allowed because
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: the judge thinks it's too prejudicial. Here's a good one.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: Why wasn't glorious Sadderfield exhumed before the trial. I'll take
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: a stab at that, because the glorious Saderfield allegations as
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: to how she died would not bear on the finding
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: of guilt or innocence in this case. What about it,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: Mark Tate? Why wasn't Saderfield exhumed and time for this testimony?
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously that's a whole brand new undertaking that's
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: being just now started, given what we apparently have learned
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: about the propensive this family somehow who resort to violence
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: to solve financial problems. And I believe that we can
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: recall that the sadder Field matter devolved into and where
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: we found out about some of the money that that
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Murdoch was able to secret away to himself as a
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: result of that, as a result of that passing, and
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: so why well, I'm not sure that anything that's going
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: to come out of demonstrating a different cause of death
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: is going to wind up being admissible, especially in front
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: of Judge Newman, who's trying a very careful case. Yeah, yeah,
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: I mean that would go to another potential murder. Sadder
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Fields did only came into financial for a financial motive,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: not to suggest that Murdoch, who was not there at
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: the home when Miss Saderfield fell down the steps. We've
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: been told that would absolutely be too prejudicial. That cannot
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: allow that in Okay, here's another one, why not kill Buster?
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: This is from Barbara Powell. The other one from Susan Paget.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: Barbara Powell knows why not kill Buster? Do you think
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: it us in on the murders? No? I do not
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: think Buster was in on these murders. And I'd like
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: to point out, as Kelly and Christina reminding me my ear,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: when the sister Marian Productor got up off the stand,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: she went and hugged Buster. That alone tells me she
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't think he was involved. But no, I don't think
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Buster was involved. Anybody want to take a crack at that?
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: What about it? Straight out to you an Emerson Buster
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: involved in the murders? In no way, no way. This
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: is absolutely um. This is getting tied to the fatal
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: boat crash. That's what we keep on hearing about. That
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: is what the state is looking at. As far as
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the evidence that we've been hearing about over and over again. Yeah,
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: was about the threats to Paul in the boat crash.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: The lawsuits tied to the boat crash. That all goes
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: back to Paul. In addition, I mean just from the
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: logical steps of what Buster was doing in his life
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: at that time. We just heard that. Honestly, Buster didn't
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: really come to the farm. You didn't have that love
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: of the farm like Paul did. That would have been
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: a leap for him to just even be there. He
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: was saying, I've got another part of sound. Carolina. Annie
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: yes exclamation asked why would CSI not take samples from
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: the water puddles? Now, you know, the hoes and the
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: water puddles are taking on a whole new significance, suggesting
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: that Marlov tried to clean up the scene or even himself.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: We saw that angle emerging yesterday. To you, Chris McDonough,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's possible to take samples from
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: water puddles. I think CSI was taking actual blood samples,
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: and we're trying to secure the crime scene. What do
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: you think of taking samples from water puddles? Well, you know, Nancy,
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: that's a great question from your viewer. The challenge with
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: that is, obviously, is the evidence starts to become problematic
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: whenever there's water, snow, anything like that, because it's an
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: outdoor scene. One of the interesting things that I found
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: was the fact that when he makes a comment going
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: over and he rolls Paul over and the phone falls out.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: I've always had a question about why he didn't go
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: roll Maggie over. He left. He left her just in
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: the position she was in, and that kind of made
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: me think about, well, is there some type of evidence
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: to your viewers question that he was also, you know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: wanting to make sure he didn't contaminate or cross contaminate
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: himself onto her, which kind of made it look a
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: little bit more like a two shooter scenario. Hey, guys,
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: here's a really good one from Oran. If Murdock touched
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: the bodies, wouldn't there be blood on the car door
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: handle and his phone straight out to doctor Dupree. Doctor Dupree,
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: what about it, Nancy, Yes, absolutely you would think that.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: But remember he is really pretty smart. There was blood
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: on the steering wheel. Perhaps he thought about they're not
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: being blood on the door handle and wiped it off
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: or used something else to open that door handle, but
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: he couldn't wipe off all of the blood on the
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: steering wheel, and that was found there. Yeah, you know,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: I'm getting p Yeah, you're right. It's also inconsistent that
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: there's there's blood on the steering wheel but not on
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: the car door handle, or it is onto something right there.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Hey from Tally checked her. What will happen if Murdock's
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: found not guilty? Will there be further investigation into the case. No,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: it's over double jeopardy. It can never be tried again.
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Here's one more thing. Let me throw this to you.
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: And do you believe the state is trying I mean,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: the defense is trying to suggest Paul shot himself. No,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think that they're going to
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: be looking for that second third shooter that those people
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: the empty chair theory. That's where I think they're going
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: with it. I know what you're talking about, though, because
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: they were talking about whether or not the way he
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: was shot, you know, when they were going on and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: on about it. I could be wrong, but I would
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: be very surprised if they wanted to go there because
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: it is hard for a lot of people to conceive
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: how he would have actually gotten that shot. Basically, So
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: I think that they're going And also they didn't find
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: that gun underneath them when the cops said that they
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: rolled Paul up because they disturbed the crime scene to
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: be looking to see if they found a gun, and
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a gun there obviously, But no, I don't
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: think they're going to be doing that necessarily. I think
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: they're going for that empty chair, that second shooter, those
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: people that had come in, and why aren't we becase
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: very critically and from Diane, she wants to know and Emerson,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: what does the different colored badges mean in the courtroom?
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Very quickly. We have different colored badges. I have a
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: purple one that means I'm media. They have new badges
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: every day for the people that are coming into the
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: public gallery, which was packed today. They did yellow badges
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: for them. So every day they come up with different
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: bachelors to make sure that they're able to go through. Guys,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go back in the courtroom very quickly. Peggy
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: Strickland asked, did he take a lie detector? Think O
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: J He took a lie detector and he failed. Lie
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: detectors don't come into criminal cases unless there's a stipulation
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: prior to trial that it will come in. In several cases, however,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: they do come in so if there's ever a civil case.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll find out if Murdoch took a lie detector
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: that said we're going back in the courtroom. We want
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: to be the jury in there. Everybody, thanks for being
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: with us today. I'll see you tomorrow at lunch break.