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Episode 9 - Gian Dula-rogon · Coach Speak The Return

• Matt Seidl: Hello everybody and welcome back to the pod. I'm Matt Seidel. Josh Trope is here as well. And we are fortunate to be joined by Gian Dula Ogan, a junior guard from Pioneer High School, who helped his team, by the way, make a deep run in the state tournament last year. Gion averaged 14 points and shot 42% from behind the arc, if my stats are correct. And that was en route to all SEC and all area honors a year ago. Gian man, thanks for getting up early on a Sunday morning and joining us. Gian Dula-ogon: Appreciate you guys for inviting me. Matt Seidl: Ooh. Well hey man, we're gonna get right into it. I'm al always curious this time of year 'cause we are it's Sunday, by the time this podcast comes out, we're about a week away from the start of praxis, unless you're Luma Christie that has to wait for the football state finals to get over. But Gian Dula-ogon: Incredible. Matt Seidl: what what have you been doing, I guess, this fall to get yourself and your team kind of ready to go for the season? Gian Dula-ogon: I okay, I will say I have been injured since August. I have a a fracture in my ankle, which has kind of hindered me. But you know, I've been trying to do as much like as much upper body workouts as much as I can, or just being there with the team, just helping them, helping the young guys. but you know, we look pretty good this year. I think we're gonna be ready and I think we're gonna make a deep run this year. But I'm excited. Matt Seidl: W what is it about the podcast that when we bring on these these young stars from the area, Ken O Hunt was first from Lewin, we got Gian from Pioneer, th they come on injured. it was like the jinx of the jinx of the podcast or something, but Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah. Matt Seidl: how go Josh: So I go ahead. Matt Seidl: go ahead. Josh: I was gonna say I I saw that your team's been competing though in in a fall league. Is that is that the one at hype that they play at? Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah, that's a hype. Josh: Okay. All right. who are who are the people that have influenced you the most so far as a basketball player? Gian Dula-ogon: I think first like my dad obviously, I think he's the reason why he got me into basketball. And, I'm just trying to just follow his footsteps, you know, and just what he wants for me and stuff. And also I'd say all my coaches definitely, you know, playing high school basketball, like under Coach Marion definitely helped me a lot. Just be a better basketball player, more IQ, just better teammate, better leader, and just try to help me get to that next level. even my teammates too, like I'd say Jordan Harrison's a big part of, you know, help me. become a better leader for sure, better point guard. you know, just try to look up to him and try to follow his footsteps too. So I've said all those guys, Josh: Yeah, and then you play it and obviously you have you play for a great high school coach and high school program, but you also play for a pretty elite AAU program, then you're surrounded by a lot of guys that are really special like you. do you have to change your game based on when you play in the high school season versus the AAU? Gian Dula-ogon: I definitely say I would. I think the high school season, it's a lot of action sets for me particularly. But in AAU, we're all we're all great. We're Matt Seidl: Yeah. Gian Dula-ogon: all good basketball players and yeah, I gotta play in a different system. But I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily. I just think I'm playing with higher talented guys and you know, good circuit and it's just a different environment, that's all. But I think it's great. Just both sides. Matt Seidl: Does Ashton talk a little junk about his high school basketball coach during AAU layovers when you got some time, or you're gonna keep that to yourself? Gian Dula-ogon: I'm gonna give it a novel. Josh: Ha ha. Gian Dula-ogon: no, he's talk great about you. you know, maybe when we beat you guys he was little mad, but he's talk great about you. So don't worry. Matt Seidl: So t tell me I guess tell me a little bit about what's your your expectations are or your thoughts on this year's I we know you guys had a lot of success last year during your sophomore year, you're junior now. This year's pioneer team. What what are your hopes? What are your thoughts? What are the strengths, weaknesses? Gian Dula-ogon: obviously the end goal state championship, that's what we've been waiting for. That's what I've been wanting since freshman year. And, we aspire to get to that level. But I think right now we just get the pieces together. last year we didn't even have it figured out till maybe like late January or something. Like our big was hurt. We didn't even know our pieces yet. And I think right now it's a whole new team or it's not a whole new team, but like a lot of people gotta step up this year. And I think right now we just gotta focus on just putting the pieces together and figuring that out. But this year is a bigger role for me. Some seniors left that, you know, had a really big impact on our team last year. And I just, you know, hope to fill that role. Matt Seidl: How many how many rotation guys and who exactly are they that are back from last year that were part of that top seven, top eight? Gian Dula-ogon: I okay, I think last year our eight man rotation, we had I think three seniors, three or four seniors that would play. It depends on the game, obviously. But like the rest of our guys, maybe like we got four four rotation guys that are coming back, including me. And then like the rest of our bench is just straight returners. Josh: Nice. Gian Dula-ogon: Got a lot of juniors on our team last year. So, you know, a lot of a lot of seniors this year. and yeah, they're getting better. I like we were a pretty young team last year. I feel like a lot of teams don't have that many juniors. We had like a full team of juniors and so now they're all seniors now and you know, they're gonna play a big role for this season. Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: You don't have to answer this if you don't want to because it it might be vagus information, insider information. But I mean, how long are you gonna be out? Gian Dula-ogon: I'll answer that. I I'm in a cast right now. I get off my cast November ten. Our first game's November thirtieth, and I mean I'm gonna try to get there, but I also don't wanna rush back in too fast. But Matt Seidl: Understood. Okay. So it's not something where it's January or something like that. Let me you're gonna be back quicker. All right, cool. All Gian Dula-ogon: No no no no. Matt Seidl: right. Josh: Okay. any impact transfers or JV guys that you think could make an impact this year? Gian Dula-ogon: no transfers, but we do have some some J V guys. We have a sophomore that played five five quarter J V in freshman last year. He's gonna play varsity big minutes. He's a big for us. And you know, we had a six eight guy who graduated last year and you know, you know, we're kinda small in the big department and I just hope that, you know, he can, you know, play a big role for that. Josh: Okay. What what are what do you consider the big games on your schedule this year? Gian Dula-ogon: Big games. I don't know if our showcase games are 100% set in stone. I saw on our schedule we play Ferndale in I think December, winter break, something like that. that's a big game, obviously. Huron always a big game. I haven't gotten a real look at our other games, but always like the big city games, Huron, Skyline, even S Celine 2, and then our non conference. I don't think there's it's really out yet. So we'll see Josh: Okay. Gian Dula-ogon: how that goes. Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: Now you kinda told us what your goal would be, this year and next year in terms of in terms of, the pioneer team. But what are what are your long term goals and if you don't mind, kinda fill us in a little bit on on how your recruiting's going. I know you're young, but I'm sure that some colleges are starting to make some contacts. Gian Dula-ogon: meeting. Yeah, no like no official offers as of yet. I've had I've talked to the Wayne State coach. They've showed interest in me. I went to their camp and then we had our team camp for Pioneer. So they've showed interest. I've talked to that coach. I went to Hillsdale College for a camp. I if I didn't get hurt I was planning on going to like the bowling green camps the there's IU Indie who invited me and then Northwood invited me to camp, but yeah, that's just how that's going. you know, the obviously the long term goal, like you you asked me, is like D one, but first just trying to make as much connections as I possibly can. So Matt Seidl: Makes sense. Josh: Okay. Yeah, totally that definitely makes sense. And you're still I feel like having Ebbs on and and talking to some college coaches, I know y you're definitely early stages of the game. They're not recruiting on the boys' side until your guys are almost seniors. So I know Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah. Josh: it's in the right spot. So a couple weeks ago we on the podcast I took a little shot at the the lack of support some of the Ann Arbor schools get and your your bar stool did did not appreciate that. my goodness. So Why don't you tell us the the the real story? And I I know you had incredible support in the district final. I saw the videos and I was at the game at Skyline when you guys had the tip in. You guys had incredible support there. but tell us, is what does it look like? Dur is it just the Huron and Skyline games that you get big crowds, or was I wrong? Do you do you guys get the support that you think you, you know, in the area? Do you guys have a good student section on on Friday nights? Gian Dula-ogon: absolutely. We're a we're not an ACT school like you said. We're not no tennis, whatever. We are, but that's not what we're known for. So I'm gonna Josh: Well you are you are a good A C T school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Gian Dula-ogon: say we're a good basketball program too. And I think last year showed that we're just gonna show that again this year. Our student section helped us so much last year, especially in the playoff run. And yeah, at the beginning of the season, maybe some games target for people to come to, maybe crowds aren't that packed to Monday, till Monday night, people have school tomorrow. that's fine. But when the games really mattered, Skyline here on Celine, Dexter. playoffs, all that. Yeah, the students section always showed up. And I think especially that that Catholic Central game, they're a big part of why Josh: Yep. Gian Dula-ogon: we won. Josh: Yeah, that was incredible crowd that game. Yeah, no question about it. Okay. All right. So I sit corrected. Okay. Matt Seidl: If I were more if I were more tech savvy, I would have run the clip of that that pioneer Josh: Ha ha. Matt Seidl: that pioneer tip in to win it against Catholic Central and the crowd running on the floor. just to kind of put that next to Josh's comments. But y you actually on that last play against Catholic Central, weren't you the guy that set the screen? Yeah. Gian Dula-ogon: Yep, yep. Matt Seidl: So that was that was a big part of that play in case people didn't know. They were obviously Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah. Matt Seidl: clinging to you and worried about where you were going, so Gian Dula-ogon: No, but it was a great play call by Coach Marion. I'd say especially it's a set that we've r it looks like another set that we run. We disguised it for a lob and then it was just lob it to our six eight guy, just put it in the rim. Josh: Yeah, it was beautiful. Matt Seidl: That was nice. It was nice. Josh: obviously, you know, pe you know, we know you and and the circles we run in, people know you as primarily a basketball player. What's something Gian Dula-ogon: Mm-hmm. Josh: about you that that people don't know? Gian Dula-ogon: I feel like as a basketball player, a lot of people are very extroverted, very out there. I feel like I'm very in like to myself, stuff like that. You know, like when it's I don't know, school night, all alone, I'm like, I'm doing puzzles. Like that's that's what I'm doing instead instead of instead of like, you know, what your average basketball player would. And I think that just, you know, sets me apart from other people, other basketball players, say. Josh: Okay. Okay. Matt Seidl: Yeah, coach said you you're c you're very you're very nice young man you're gonna come across a little maybe a little shy, but not shy and what kind of somewhere in the middle. But he he he did say you have a little bit of an edge when you play. You don't mind giving it back a little bit to people when you're when you're playing and to get yourself going. I thought that was kind of interesting, but everybody has a a switch that they can hit when they're competing. Sounds like you have one. But Josh, I'm curious about this. And I know you don't prepare for any of your opponents, you just kinda roll out the balls and hope the wins come, but What do you remember about Gion in terms of the Skana report when you guys were quickly preparing to play Pioneer last year? Josh: Yeah, we kinda threw that game together quick. We both needed a game and I and I knew it'd be a great competition and things like that. I was lucky I had Ashton and Broden, who obviously knew G quite well. And you know, the scout on him was I mean, we knew he could score at all three levels. He's that good. But the one thing we told our kids, you gotta run him off the arc. if he gets a look at the rim from three, it's going in. And we we talked about him being left handed you know, but Ultimately he's just as good with both hands. But if anything, try to make him go right, if anything. But yeah, it was we didn't we did a a good job in the first well actually you were in foul trouble in the first half. Yeah, that that's yeah. Gian Dula-ogon: I was involved in I didn't I sat the whole first half. Josh: That's why we did a good job. That's why we did a good job on it. Matt Seidl: Wha w w wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait wait a minute. The other teams one of the other teams best players was in foul trouble at Luma Christie? Huh. That's a whole new concept. Never never heard of it before. Okay. Josh: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And Gian Dula-ogon: Ha ha Josh: then in the second half he absolutely killed us. I mean, killed us from the three at the rim. I mean, he hurt us in every way. Addition the ball. I mean, phenomenal second half. And and that's why they I mean, he you are a big reason, if not the reason, you guys pulled away in the second half of that game. Gian Dula-ogon: Appreciate that. Josh: Yep. Gian Dula-ogon: But hey, them Jackson refs, they got me and Jordan in foul trouble in first half. I'll talk about it. Josh: don't don't get Matt don't get Matt started. Yeah. Yeah Matt Matt Matt Seidl: Hey you you're gonna get me in trouble. You're gonna get me in trouble talking about Jackson Rutherford. Josh: Matt hates the Jackson Rap, so don't get started. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: my goodness. That's something. It's now you know, watching you play just on video, and that's the only thing I've never seen you live. I've seen you on live stream, I've seen you on some highlights, but you do like Josh mentioned, you look like you go right as well as left. Maybe you sometimes even prefer to go right. You got the floater going both ways. But in your regular life, like do you do everything left handed or are you one of those guys that does a little bit of of everything sometimes? Gian Dula-ogon: no, I'm actually I'm right handed. I just like that. I'm right handed. Josh: Yeah, okay. Gian Dula-ogon: So it's good to go right, good to go left. I'm so Matt Seidl: You throw a baseball like you throw a baseball right handed, but you shoot Josh: Ha ha. Matt Seidl: a basketball left handed. Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah, I literally I like I write with my right, I do like do anything with my right, brush my teeth with my right hand, just shoot the basketball with left hand. So it's helped me a lot though. So Matt Seidl: That's I see that. I see that. So okay. Well, hey man, before we let you go, we want to do a little bit of a rapid fire with you just to kind of get to know you a little bit and our listeners can do the same. But I've got about, I don't know, eight to ten things. Just just answer as quick as you can. We we we may we may joke with you or say something in between, or maybe we'll wait to the end. But I'm just curious w how this goes. So anyway, let's get it going. best teammate you've ever had. Gian Dula-ogon: I'd say Jordan Harrison. Matt Seidl: Okay, cool. Favorite NBA player? Gian Dula-ogon: Favorite NBA player, Carmelo Anthony, all time. Right now Matt Seidl: Make Gian Dula-ogon: I'd say Paul George. Matt Seidl: it favorite college player. Gian Dula-ogon: I'd say Jerry McCain. Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: Best trash talker you've played against. Gian Dula-ogon: A good one. in middle school I would say Jordan McDaniel. He talked a lot of trash to me. Matt Seidl: Ri anybody in the SEC that you play against twice a year? Gian Dula-ogon: SEC Nate Sydney's another one too. track. Matt Seidl: Okay. Josh: That th that talk about the apple not falling far from the tree. His dad did a good job of that too. Yep. Matt Seidl: Yeah, for sure. Gian Dula-ogon: Yeah. Matt Seidl: favorite pre game meal. Gian Dula-ogon: Free game meal chipotle. Matt Seidl: Beautiful. favorite music before a game? Gian Dula-ogon: Music. It varies. I'd say some like Drake or something like that. Matt Seidl: Okay. If you weren't playing basketball, what would you probably be doing? Gian Dula-ogon: Either I'd say either playing soccer or football. One of those two. Matt Seidl: Nice. All right. one place you'd love to visit. Gian Dula-ogon: Visit mm, probably like France. Matt Seidl: Okay. All right. One person you'd love to play basketball against. Gian Dula-ogon: Against Dairy Zaycuff. Matt Seidl: yeah. Josh: wow. Matt Seidl: And finally, one celebrity you'd love to sit next to on an airplane. It's a good one too, man. goodness. Josh: Okay. All right. Matt Seidl: All right. Well, hey man, this was good. This was appreciated. I hope our listeners enjoy it as much as we have. good luck this season. Let's get you healthy. obviously that's that's good for pioneer, but that's just good for basketball in in southeastern Michigan as well. So good luck this rest of the season and take care of yourself. All Gian Dula-ogon: Appreciate you guys. Matt Seidl: right, man, take care. Josh: All right, thanks for coming on. Matt Seidl: Well hey man, we're we're ready to roll then. We're gonna move to our second quarter. And listeners, this is not my topic. This is this is Coach Trope's topic, but I'd be more than happy to chime in on some thoughts. But we usually text each other midweek and start talking about potential topics for the upcoming podcast and Josh was adamant about we need to talk about what makes a good athletic director. And I'm not even sure what what what what got you going on that. I can only imagine, but that's gonna be our our topic for quarter two. What makes a good athletic director? I'm gonna let you start with that since you're you're an expert. Josh: Okay. I think the first thing I'll say is what got me going on it. I noticed or I it was brought to my attention that the Hanover Horton athletic director stepped down a few weeks ago it to go back into the classroom. and it made me think, you know, it there's been an incredible like turnover in cascade ADs the last few years. And not only that, but just in the state in general. You know, it it seems like a very high burnout position. you know, we just replaced the AD at Chelsea last year, and it seems all over the state. I mean, I feel like ADs don't last more than four or five years right now. So it made me think, and I've been really lucky. I've worked for some great athletic directors. you know, everybody has their strengths and weaknesses, but it it got me thinking, you know, when these jobs come open, what is something that that that administrators and districts look for, coaches, all those things that make a great athletic director. And and I think the things that came up to me are ADs that are supportive of their coaches. it's important to have an open line of communication. I think it's vital that athletic directors are very organized and great communicators. I I think that's incredibly important. I think that they they have to be very even keel. That ADs can't get too high, they can't get too low, they can't have knee-jerk reactions w to parents, to players, to to coaches, any of those things. I think these are all inc incredibly important things. But I also think that athletic directors can't be afraid of conflict. I I think they can't be afraid to take that on. So I think those are all it really important characteristics that that I hope my athletic directors have. And like I said, I've been I've been really lucky. I've worked for some really good ones. And but yeah, I think those are those are the things we all look for. Matt Seidl: No, I I think that's a good list. I I I kinda because you you made me do this, I got a a list of my own, but you you checked off about half of just with your your mentions right there. I think a couple other things I wanna add. I you know, you gotta have a vision. I don't I don't think I don't know any of all the good ADs who people I consider, colleagues who are really good at their job, they seem to have somewhere along the line created a vision for their particular athletic program. And whatever that vision is. And then and then they gotta sell that vision and get buy-in from their coaches and their community and their student athletes and the staff and all that. but it seems like that's a key like the elite, the better, the stronger ADs have that. I think coaching experience And I I've always like I I try to I'm I'm be careful here. Some of the ADs that I think really struggle or have struggled, things I've noticed from afar, maybe I don't even I don't know if I've worked for an A D that that didn't coach, but the ones that have never coached, that never run their own teams, that have never been in the trenches, never had to deal with the day to day, even even just the year to year that that coaches do, I don't think they can relate to their coaching staff and that becomes a problem. And I don't I also think it part part of being an A D is helping your coaches problem solve 'cause there's problems coming up every day and you and you the experience you've had as a coach, not just as an A D, I think is really helpful. So that's I think I think that's a big piece. The other one comes to mind along the same line is it's it's our it's our bread and butter. You you're as good as an athletic director as the coaches you have working with you. and and and you you being able to identify and hire good coaches, being able to mentor them when they need it, and also having the courage to make changes when necessary, that that's part of this that's part of the deal. And that then it leads to the the the thick skin part. If you don't have thick skin you can't be an athletic director. It it's kinda like coaching in that sense. You're going to get criticized. Just it's coming. You've gotta Josh: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Matt Seidl: be able to deal with it. Josh: So let me a so two follow ups that come to mind. One, how do you feel about ath because I agree with you. I I didn't say it, but I love that you brought it up. I think an A D needs to be a former coach. I I don't think I mean if if you haven't coached, I it's gonna be really hard to be good at what you do as an athletic director. but that being said, how do you feel about someone being an athletic director and a varsity coach at the same time. Matt Seidl: I don't think it's the ideal situation, but I'm not I would never ban it. I hey, I I did it for three years with Olivet. One of the one of the more more fun three year runs I've had as a as an employee of a public school district. you're not you you're not technically your own boss. You you've got a principal or a superintendent that's in charge of you, because you're you're all the A D and and the head basketball coach or whatever sport you're talking about. I think if it makes if it makes your athletic program better or your specific program better, why not do it? All right, we're trying to make decisions for what's best for kids, not for optics for the public or who can control what. So the bigger school districts, I maybe not a need for it because that individual the bigger the school district, the the A D gets more and more spread thin. but I think in some of the smaller school districts it's not a bad thing. And a lot of great coaches want to end their career being an athletic director. So never I would never think you have to give them an ultimatum like, Yeah, you can be our athletic director, but you have to give up your program. And and there's stories like that all around the place where school districts have a policy where their A Ds can't their administrators can't coach. I don't think that's a wise thing to do by any means, so yeah. Josh: Okay. So my second follow-up will lead us into our third quarter, but I'm gonna ask the question first. Matt Seidl: Hm. Yeah. Josh: W what is the AD's role in the n the ever expanding transfer portal in high school sports when how how much investigation is it on an AD to find out if a family really got divorced, if a family really made a full and complete move? Matt Seidl: Well, it i I tell you what happened I mean when when you hear that a new student athlete's coming to your district and they're not an incoming freshman, you the first thing you do is you wanna meet with the kid, you wanna communicate with the parent, you wanna get their backstory. And then once you get the backstory, the first thing most athletic directors do, I get these calls all the time, I make these calls all the time, is you call the athletic director from the school that that student athlete is coming from. And that That might be a neighboring school, it might be one on the other side of the state, it might be one in another state. But you you basically try to find out what's going on here, why is this student coming? And sometimes it's very legitimate and it's an easy, it's a slam dunk. Others it gets complicated, and you can tell from that initial conversation with the athletic director that this might not be cut and dry. Then it's up it is, it's up to you to kind of get information together, again, through interviews of the student athlete and the parents, talking to the other athletic director. I would always, if I'm even a little bit worried that this is I gotta make sure I'm checking all the boxes, you call your best source at the MHSAA and have them kind of talk you through it. Eventually you've got to get to a point where you think all the boxes have been checked, that this student athlete is eligible, the paperwork is all there that needs to be, and then you kind of make a decision that, okay, and and based on the information and you provide the information to the MHSA. They don't send a private detective out to figure it out themselves. And then they make a call based on the information that they've been provided. And sometimes that's from both schools, the one that the student is leaving and one that they're going to. and sometimes they sometimes they say yes, sometimes they say no. There are some there you can appeal too. you can the tran there's a tr legitimate transfer rule that you're going on and sometimes they don't quite fit into that that that box. So then you have to, you ask for a a waiver of the transfer rule and you've got a collect information and you send it to the executive council. And I'd I'd never bet on those because sometimes when I think it's it's easy, we're definitely gonna get it, it doesn't work out. Others when I just do it to make the family happy and never feel like it has any chance, it passes and we get the waiver. So and then you just move forward. You hope there's no skeleton in the closet. You hope there's no new information that comes out after the fact. But as we learned with Grand Rapids Catholic Central this this past week Sometimes there is. And I I've got a story of my own, my very first year as an A D where that occurred as well. So that's a long winded answer to that. But it's tran transfers are are complicated. So all right, well hey, we have decided what a new a great A D should look like. So now we're gonna move into yeah, let's let's let's talk about the the story of the week in Michigan for sure. So I'm gonna I'll I'll give it the the for anybody who's been living under a rock, I'll give it the quick the quick summary. Last Thursday, which would have been the twenty ninth, the MHSA basically determines that Grand Rapid Catholic Central's football team, the number one team, I think, in D five, is no longer in the playoffs because they're going to have to forfeit five wins and ch change their record from seven and two to two and seven, which means they're not gonna have enough playoff points to qualify. This was one day before their game against Comstock Park. so then All hell breaks loose and there's opinions fr from everywhere. And then while all the opinions are coming out, a Kent County Circuit Court judge grants an injunction injunction allowing GRCC to play against Comstock Park. That game to to this moment, we're we're recording midday on Sunday. We still don't have a game time if that's even gonna take place. It's supposed to take place sometime before Tuesday at seven PM. This this injunction came as b of a someone filed, it wasn't it wasn't Grand Rapids Calic Central, it was a teammate of the transfer who has been deemed ineligible. Kind of a interesting story. I know you have a connection a little bit there, but anyway. So MHSA comes out with their statement. They are not happy with it. I'm gonna read this. The MHSA was not provided an opportunity to participate in these legal proceedings and only learned of the court's order late Friday. Had it been provided an opportunity, the MHSA would have explained the new evidence and information it was provided just this week that required reconsideration of its eligibility determination. That was their official statement. So this judge does the the TRO and makes this says, Hey, they they do need to play the game and they're gonna have a they're gonna have a another hearing, a legitimate hearing, I think, on Friday the sixth. So which is is this this is get the scheduled time of the next round. the playoffs. So the backstory is that the transfer was ruled eligible by the MHSA last summer, sometime. So the school understandably let him play. But as the statement indicates, some new information emerged late last week and bringing some new light I guess to his eligibility. the game's supposed to be played again this Tuesday Tuesday at seven. We'll see if it actually gets played. The show cause hearing as I referenced is scheduled for Friday, November sixth. So that is the that's the short version. Josh: Mm-hmm. Matt Seidl: So what what your initial shots? Josh: Well, my my first question is an athletic director question. I I thought there was a rule that high school football teams could not play two games in one week. So even if they played Tuesday, if whoever wins that game, can they even play on Friday or Saturday against the team in the next round? Matt Seidl: I don't think the we I'd have to look it up. I don't have my hand my handbook's in my office. So all this broke it th it I don't think the week that we're talking about is Sunday to s Sunday to Saturday it is for the general world. I also think it's got there's a certain amount of days that are supposed to be I kept thinking there's no way they can play Tuesday and then play again on Friday. I think Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: it would have to be like Tuesday, Saturday. But what if the team that's playing doesn't want to play on I I kept thinking about all that, but then I I I I think they must have thought that through before they came up with the court order. And maybe this is all being talked about and worked out behind the scenes. We have not seen another statement from either the school or or the MHSA since kind of what broke on Friday. So yeah, that's I I don't know if that's gonna be the the hang up or not. Josh: Okay. My thoughts, I I mean, Matt Seidl: go ahead. Josh: I would be devastated if I had a senior on that team. you know, I to me, based on the only based on the information we know, and we don't know all the information obviously, but based on the information we know, if the MHSA acknowledged that he was eligible and told the school they could play him, then the school, in my opinion, did nothing wrong. They followed the MHSA's ruling and it sounds like they did that. It it does sound that they everybody did their due diligence to that point in August. they were informed a few weeks ago that they had more information and they were worried the kid wouldn't be eligible, so they didn't play him the last two games. So again the the school did what the MHSA told them to do. So the the school's being compliant to the people that they answer to and they're they're doing what they're being told. So to me, I I think this is a situation where the ruling, in my opinion, would have made more sense if you said, hey, you can't play this kid anymore. He's ineligible. He's done. But we're not going to punish the school. We're not going to punish the program. We're not going to punish the other 60 kids. because they were following the rules to the best of their knowledge and the rules and the ruling brought down by the MHSA. that's my opinion is that they should have been able to play on Friday with without the kid. and should be able to c continue to go on. I but again, I don't have all the information. I I Matt Seidl: Right. Josh: don't know exactly what what changed or what rule or what information they found out that made made the MHSA change the ruling. Matt Seidl: Yeah, I like I said, I I feel bad. I I I guess for for those kids. I I I I also feel bad for the kids that that they beat using an ineligible player. you can go on that that side too. they use an ineligible player, it sounds like, for six games, five of which they won. To open that can of worms and say, Ha, we're just gonna just moving forward, he's ineligible. We're not gonna penalize you, you're gonna have enough playoff points to get in. And you gotta go back years then and and grant all those other situations. otherwise schools would just take chances on kids all the time and we're gonna play until 'cause the MHSA s says based on the crap we gave them that you're eligible. But then all of a sudden that i th people realize it's crap and the information is is not all there and then they have to, reconsider and and make the kid ineligible. at least he got to play six games. I mean see y you've got to have a consequence for this situation. You live in this, my point is this, you live in this area, you live in this world where transfers are part of your existence. And let's face it, there are several high-end private schools that benefit greatly from transfers from time to time. There are many public school powers. We have some in our immediate area. We all know who they are who benefit greatly from transfer after transfer after transfer. Most of them are legitimate. How? Who knows? they all have their stories. But you're living it you're living in you're playing with fire and every once in a while you get burned. And and when you get burned, you gotta have to deal with it. And Celine football had to deal with it a couple years ago. Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: They didn't kick out of the playoffs because they only they got caught before the it was the sixth or seventh week. They got caught maybe after the third week that they had they didn't and Slain didn't know, I'm not blaming Celine's administration. Someone lied to them, someone didn't give them the straight truth. And that's what potentially is going on here at at Catholic Central. Josh: So let me ask you this then. If a basketball team, the same thing happens to the Grand Rabbits Catholic Central basketball team, and they play 18 games with this kid, everybody in the state makes the playoffs in basketball. So obviously they would still be allowed to play in the basketball tournament without the kid. So is this maybe a reason to I mean, football right now is the only sport, to my knowledge, that every team in the state doesn't make the playoffs. Is that correct? Matt Seidl: I I believe so. I can't think of another Josh: So Matt Seidl: one. Josh: okay, so maybe this is time. If if we if we're gonna have things like this happen, these in inconsistencies and rulings, which does happen in football, then well it happens in all sports, to your point, but it only affects football in this playoff system because if everybody got in, okay, you're right, now you're only two and seven, but you're still in the playoffs, and they probably would still win the state championship with or without this kid, or they'd be in the discussion to win a state championship. They're in a with a handful of teams that could win the state championship. So is it time maybe to say, Hey, if if it's that hard to do this, let's shorten the season by a game and and play eight football games and have everybody make the playoffs? Matt Seidl: They're still gonna be going into December by doing that. the pandemic year. I w would we play six games and then everybody was in the playoffs that year? but then all th then it then you get into do you really want everybody in the football playoffs where in and they're seated? And they're seated where the Josh: don't start that. D do you know how many blowouts there do you know any blowouts? Matt Seidl: where the one the the one seed plays the bottom seed and then it's seventy to nothing at halftime. Do we want a lot of that? Josh: There were there were games this week. let's be honest. The the whole there's it's ridiculous how many teams make the football playoffs. it's just Yeah. Matt Seidl: It would be more ridiculous if we brought in all the teams that were happy to be having their banquets this past week and they were Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: they were thrilled that football season was over. But Josh: Well, there are a lot of blowouts this week. So there's a there's a few more weeks of blowouts. I I don't know. I'm just saying maybe that maybe that's the answer is that everybody makes it. Matt Seidl: Yeah. I I don't know again, you live you live in this gray world, you live in this I mean, somebody somebody's not telling the truth. And I'm not getting I Josh: No, I agree. I I agree. Matt Seidl: I I my in my heart, I I believe that Grand Rapids Catholic Central did what they thought was best. They thought they had all the information. I also believe I have confidence that the MHSAA has the smoking gun, so to speak. They have information that that's gonna w Josh: I would agree. I would agree. Matt Seidl: when this show cause hearing comes up on November sixth, I would not be surprised if the judge then says, Yep. this this kid and this team is ineligible and they're gonna kick him right back out of the playoffs. So something came up and if somebody was sitting on that information, so be it. you again you play in this world, you can get burned and that's what is going on here. I I don't I you know I I I was criticized by some people. I don't have a ton of sympathy for it. You benefit from this world, you also can get burned from this world. So and potentially that's what's happening. And we may learn that Maybe the MHSA made a mistake. I really don't think they would have made this very controversial move without knowing exactly what happened. I go ahead. Josh: So I I so I'll say this. I I I think the amount of like hate I have seen on social media towards Grand Rapids Catholic Central over this situation and and private schools and things like that. First off, I'd like to say this is going on everywhere. It's not just happening at private schools. But to me, when I read some of the stuff that was being posted by adults online about private schools and Catholic schools and things like that, like it just screams to me one more time like it's time to separate. It is one thousand percent time to separate the tournaments. Go public, go private and and or Matt Seidl: Yeah. although I I don't I don't see this one I and I I'm with you on that. I I think I'm with you on that. I don't think this is a public private thing. I think some people are are maybe some people who don't care for private schools are getting off on this and then there was some Josh: They are. Matt Seidl: private schools that are fighting back because some public school people are maybe enjoying this too much. I don't think it's a private public thing. It's it's it's more i it's about schools that rely heavily on transfers to let's say upgrade their athletic programs. And and and it's be and it's not bec and it's not recruiting. That's not recruiting. People transfer not because they're being recruited. They transfer because they want their kid in a a better situation, maybe athletically. And I I I I want my kid to get a chance to play at a first state championship. I want them to be part of a winning sports culture. So they they kinda like kinda like what you do when you join a club team, but I'm not gonna get into that, but that's the difference. So that's why maybe we should separate. I I don't know why I went there but Josh: Yeah. Yep. Matt Seidl: anyway. It's it's it's gonna be f it's gonna be interesting to watch the next few days. I I think they are gonna play the game. I think I think then it's gonna the plug is gonna get pulled again on November sixth. That's my prediction. I might be all wrong. They might not play the game, they might play it and then the the court says, Hey, no, they ru there really was no reason for this and that they are they are eligible for the remainder of the tournament. I guess we'll find out. Josh: Well, I'll tell you what, if they do play the game, I I I it's gonna I mean, Grand Rapid Catholic Central gonna put it on Comstock Park. I mean, it is I yeah, that could get on Matt Seidl: Yeah, a w a one seed playing the eight seed, that's not that one's not gonna go well. Imagine if all the teams that didn't qualify for the playoffs had to play Grand Rapids, Calic Central under your scenario. I don't think that would be healthy either. So yeah, it's a a lot of eyes on this one for sure. So but all right, well hey man, now we move to the fourth quarter. And we We kinda said we weren't gonna do football picks again, but as long as I'm trailing, we're gonna keep doing football picks. So our current standings have Josh Trope standing thirteen and eight and Matt Seidel standing twelve and nine. So I I remain a game behind you. we have four college games this week. We're not messing around with high school games right now. Josh: Ha ha. Matt Seidl: Not not until they get maybe a little more competitive. Goodness, we already yeah, we talked about that. So our first game, Josh, I'm gonna let you go first. We have and this is Next coming this this coming weekend, we have BYU at Utah. Utah is a four and a half point favorite right now. Josh: first thing about this game that's ridiculous, it's a 10 a.m. kickoff. I mean it's just it's noon our time, 10 a.m. for these guys. I mean, these are two top ten teams in in the country, and they're kicking off at ten o'clock Tell me that college sports isn't all about money. that that's that's absurd. Matt Seidl: T V. Mm-hmm. Josh: But anyways, Utah with a very impressive win this week at Cincinnati on the road. After Cincinnati had just won the Soresby Bowl over Texas Tech the week before, and then BYU with an expected bounce back at home after blowing it at UCF the week before. This obviously is we had we've talked about rivalries before in the podcast. This is a rivalry game. I think this is going to be a great game. It's all going to be about who controls the pace and the tempo. Utah has a high powered offense. BYU has a adequate offense, but they do not want it this game played in the forties. I don't think that would be good for them. I think playing on the road is going to be very tough. I I love the BYU coach. I like the quarterback. I I like what they do, but I just think you're asking too much for them to go into Utah and win this game. you know, I I don't know how much of the liquids will be flowing that morning with the 10 a.m. kickoff, so maybe the crowd won't be as crazy, but I have a feeling that that they will be loud and and into the game. I like Utah in this game in a very close, you know, last possession field goal to win the game for Utah. Matt Seidl: Alright, I have I'm going I got a different approach this week. I'm not gonna overanalyze anything because it's not working for me. all I know is this. These two schools I I believe are less than an hour apart, so the the morning game should be fine. I also know that Steve Young was a better NFL player than Alex Smith. And that is what I'm going on. It's the they Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: were the best quarterbacks coming out of those two schools. I'm going with BYU because Steve Young played there. So there's my Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: reason. Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: For picking DYU, it's also opposite of you, which is perfect. So, Josh: Okay. Matt Seidl: all right. our second game, and I'll go first on this one, Alabama at LSU. LSU is a four and a half point favorite. LSU beat Alabama, if you recall, in 2019 when we were there. I believe it was 46 41 game of the century, right? that was great. Josh: Yeah, without a doubt. Matt Seidl: And even though Bama did get revenge in Baton Rouge, I think, in 2024. I need it to happen one more time. I'm going with roll tide in this one. Josh: Okay. I like I like this already. I never pick against the lane train. you know, there's no I mean, Lane Kivan, my favorite coach in college sports, without a without question. it's also really hard to win in Baton Rouge. LSU with the both schools with a bye week, which they both needed. I mean, both teams are getting beat up. You know, Bama played Georgia and Tennessee back to back, both losses. And I think LSU is finding its groove in under their first year coach. I not only do I like LSU. win this game. I like them to make the playoff and and make a serious run in the playoff. Matt Seidl: Alright, okay, so we're we're different again. All right, game Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: three. Game three. and you get to lead off this one since this is your boys here. We have Miami at Notre Dame. Notre Dame, a three and a half point favorite at home, huh? Josh: Yep. Matt Seidl: go ahead. Josh: Well, I would stay away from the line, but Notre Dame's gonna win this game. It's a night game at home. it is their season. I still think even with a close loss, they make the playoff just because it there's absolute chaos across the country right now as far as wins and losses and things like that, which benefits Notre Dame. But I I think they win this game. It's a must win game for Notre Dame. And Miami has really been really lucky the last two weeks. They had to pull one out against Florida State, a bad Florida State team. And then They they got lucky last night against North Carolina. I maybe looking ahead to Notre Dame, who knows? But I love the Irish in this game. I I you know I I'd stay away from betting the game, but I'd bet moneyline, but I'd stay away from the spread. But no, I love Notre Dame in this situation. Matt Seidl: Alright, this is the only one I'm really gonna analyze. I I watched the Mi I didn't know enough about Miami. I watched the Miami North Carolina game quite a bit last night. that was a f that was a fun game, by the way. And and without that turnover Josh: It was, it was. Matt Seidl: late by North Carolina, who may have had a different result. Darien Mensa, I believe, is the is the quarterback. They have Malachi Tony is the wide receiver. That combination is pretty interesting. Those are some that's some high-level talent right there. I'm really impressed with those guys. I want Miami to win this game. Yeah, just to you know take a shot at you. But I am reluctantly gonna go with the Irish on this one. It's hard for me to do, but I'm gonna go with the Irish. So Josh: I like it. Matt Seidl: all right, our final game, and we have to pick it, even though there's a quite a spread. Michigan State at Michigan. Michigan is a thirteen and a half point favorite as of this morning. the best thing about this game, it's a seven thirty PM start. So if you're a cross country fan, like if if you have any affiliation with Pinkney High School, you're a cross country fan, or our we we have some individuals are gonna be really competing at a high level that day as well as our two teams. So I can now go to MIS in the afternoon, not miss any football and get home and watch this debacle of a game probably. I I My beloved Wolverine. That that that was a hard watch yesterday. Fortunately they survived. car is gonna lead Notre Dame to win on in South Bend and I think another car is gonna lead Michigan to a win over Michigan State. Josh: Okay. well I I on the other hand was really impressed with Michigan yesterday from the quarterback position. I mean, Carr had an amazing day, high completion rate, threw for about two hundred and fifty yards, ran for another fifty yards, three touchdowns total. I I mean, I actually think he's really finding his groove. the scheduling of this game i is mind boggling to me how this is not a noon kickoff. if if it was a noon kickoff, be the most one of the most watched games in the country just because it's Michigan, Michigan State. 730, nobody's watching this game. Everybody's watching Notre Dame, Miami. So I mean, unless you're one of the hundred thousand people singing Mr. Brightside, no one is going to be paying any attention to this. And that's sad because it's Michigan, Michigan State. that being said, I I'm also agreeing with you. I I love Michigan in this game. I I think they're finally kind of finding their way. Earlier in the year, I thought Michigan's season was over. Now, looking at it, you know, they get a win here. Going to Oregon and winning is not impossible right now with Oregon playing the way they are. And I'll tell you what, after watching Ohio State last night, I I mean Michigan could beat Ohio State. You you could be looking at a three-loss Michigan team arguing for a 12th spot in the playoff. Now, do I think they should get in? No, because you should be able to score 20 points a game before you're allowed in the playoff. But but no, it's a big game, it's a huge game for Michigan. And let's be honest. This is Michigan State Super Bowl. They have nothing. This might be their last chance to win a league game. So, no, I like Michigan in this one as well. Matt Seidl: It will be competitive. You two things to to based on what you just said. One, I am I'm so proud of you that you said if Michigan runs the table, they're gonna be a three loss team. That means you are now acknowledging the fact that they beat Western Michigan University. Though that's a big that's a big plus for you because I know you weren't doing that. Josh: Did you like that text I sent you with the the graphic? I think that needs to be posted on the podcast. So we all set our Matt Seidl: I think Josh: we all set our clocks back an hour last night. Unless you live in Washington County, you set it back an hour and one second. I I loved that. Yeah. Yep. Matt Seidl: God. yeah, that that's one thing and then I I can't remember what the other was. You got me laughing, I forgot what the second thing was, but I'll I'll I'll it'll come to me after we're off the air. But dude, it was it's always fun. G Gian was really good. Wish him well. We Josh: Yeah. Matt Seidl: gotta get him healthy. That's good for basketball in our area. this Grand Rapids thing, I think we'll we'll all all eyes on it. eat your popcorn this week, see how that one works out. thanks for identifying all the great traits of of an athletic director. I know you were just kinda thinking about me when you were talking about that and then we'll we'll keep track. Josh: Well wait, I I gotta say too, and I I'm really impressed that we didn't have to pick the Lumen Napoleon game because I I thought for sure you're gonna bring that up because I did get a text from you on Friday night predicting Napoleon win next week. Matt Seidl: Mm. I mm I just saying I I was watching a little bit of the Lumen Brooklyn game s at the beginning and I I'm just saying, I think the better team the first like I don't know, fi fifteen twenty minutes of that game was Brooklyn, and then all of a sudden the cream rose to the top and Lumen took over and it may have been their wake up call. Napoleon is is extremely difficult to stop offensively, as long as they don't fumble and get penalties. Although they are playing at Lumen, so there might be a few penalties called against them. All of a sudden, the holding call that hasn't been called all year. Here it comes. but we'll see. We'll see how that one goes. I I I'd say Lumen is a a heavy favorite, but you never know, man. You never know. So anyway, I by the way, your basketball season, w when's your first official practice? Josh: our tryouts start on November thirtieth. That would be a few days after the state championship. And that's that's out in the public. So because all we do is win titles in football. So I I well and tennis now. But yeah, no doubt. Yep. Matt Seidl: So i i i if the if the Lumen football team gets popped this weekend, and all of a sudden those guys are available, does that change your plan a little bit? Josh: Well, yeah, obviously we would just, but I that's not gonna happen. Napoleon is a good offensive team, but the you know, it you have to actually play defense too. You don't just get to play offense in these games. So, yeah, Lumen, this will be over by the fourth quarter. Maybe earlier. Yeah. All right. Matt Seidl: Okay. All right. All right. So yeah, all right, I gotcha. All right, man. Well have a good week. We'll talk to you soon. Josh: All right, thanks.