Latest / Bloomberg Intelligence / Soft Landing, EVs, and Private Credit

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Soft Landing, EVs, and Private Credit · Bloomberg Intelligence

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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
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  Speaker 2: my co host Matt Miller.
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  Speaker 1: Every business day we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros,
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• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Today we had the jolts come in a little lower
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: than expect it, So if you were job openings, ism
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: services jess as we were talking before, came in a
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  Speaker 2: little bit better than forecast, better than last month. That's good,
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  Speaker 2: maybe fed friendly, But I don't know how to put
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  Speaker 2: all this together. Fortunately we have people do that for us.
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  Speaker 2: One of them is Jennifer Lee. She's a senior e
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  Speaker 2: conmist and managing director BEIMO Capital Markets.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: And for the folks the kids that don't know, that's Bank.
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  Speaker 2: Of Montreal back in the day, BEMO Capital Market's a
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  Speaker 2: great firmat there in Canada. So, Jennifer, looking at the
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  Speaker 2: US economy, what's your take here? I mean, is it
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  Speaker 2: a soft landing and hard landing and no landing? What's
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  Speaker 2: going on out there?
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  Speaker 4: Good morning, and thank you very much, Cheviell, thank you
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  Speaker 4: for having me on.
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  Speaker 5: You know, I'm going to stick to what we have
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  Speaker 5: been saying for a long time now, which is that
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  Speaker 5: soft landing narrative. At least it is up until now
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  Speaker 5: like this morning's as you're pointing out this morning's to reports,
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  Speaker 5: you know, the ism was up and the jolts were down, Joppa,
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  Speaker 5: bricks were down. So it's it's it's but it's not
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  Speaker 5: down enough. We still have over one point four jobs
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  Speaker 5: available for every unemployed American out there. That's it's a
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  Speaker 5: pretty decent jaw market overall. It's not we're not seeing
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  Speaker 5: you know, two jobs for every one person like we did,
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  Speaker 5: you know, last year. But it's still a tight labor
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  Speaker 5: market and it's still fairly healthy. I some services you
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  Speaker 5: know showing the activity is picking up the most of
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  Speaker 5: a couple of months. I mean, this is only the
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  Speaker 5: first increase in a few months, but still it shows
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  Speaker 5: that again, this whole soft landing narrative is still playing out,
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  Speaker 5: at least for now.
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  Speaker 6: Looking at the ECFC function in the terminal pull up,
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  Speaker 6: looking at where the consensus among economists that are pulled
• 2:30
  Speaker 6: in the terminal. You can look at annually, also quarterly.
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  Speaker 6: If you look over quarterly, though on a basis, there's
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  Speaker 6: there no longer is a quarter over quarter contraction coming
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  Speaker 6: into this year. Originally there was a call for the
• 2:43
  Speaker 6: second and third quarter to see contraction. We aren't seeing
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  Speaker 6: that anymore. We're still seeing growth. So I'm curious your
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  Speaker 6: thoughts on when there still is this concern because looking
• 2:52
  Speaker 6: at how the consensus among economists, the probability of a
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  Speaker 6: recession is still around fifty percent. That's pretty elevated compared
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  Speaker 6: to if you're looking at say other firms like Golden
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  Speaker 6: Snacks that have lowered their calls in recent months. Why
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  Speaker 6: do you think there is still so much skepticism in
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  Speaker 6: gluiness out there about the trajectory of the economy when
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  Speaker 6: you have this chextaposed against a lot of really strong
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  Speaker 6: consumer spending data.
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  Speaker 5: I think it's it's a great question, and I'm thinking that,
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  Speaker 5: you know, we've never been in this sort of environment
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  Speaker 5: where you know, we have a central bank like the
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  Speaker 5: FAT that has been tightening so much in such a
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  Speaker 5: short amount of time. This is like a reck of
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  Speaker 5: the amount, and yet we're still seeing you know, a
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  Speaker 5: business investment. You know, it's it's has us ups and
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  Speaker 5: downs of course, but it's still supported by a by
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  Speaker 5: physical spending. And it all goes back to the US
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  Speaker 5: consumer staying resilient. You know, they're not going to be
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  Speaker 5: spending like crazy, you know, for for you know, in
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  Speaker 5: twenty months, I think things have already started to dial down.
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  Speaker 5: But again it's that it's that job market. I think
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  Speaker 5: it's all goes back to having a strong job market,
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  Speaker 5: and that goes back to demographics, It goes back to
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  Speaker 5: the pandemic. What I was a little bit worried about,
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  Speaker 5: I will say, was when I saw the personal income
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  Speaker 5: of spending data last week. With that mind that very
• 3:59
  Speaker 5: small point one percent, which is a salary increased, and
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  Speaker 5: I was like, oh, that's not great, but you know,
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  Speaker 5: it's good in terms for the FED. It's not great
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  Speaker 5: for the consumer. But as long as you know, we
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  Speaker 5: continue to see steady job growth, continue to see steady
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  Speaker 5: wage gains, you know, either point one or point five
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  Speaker 5: or whatever, you know, I think that will be a
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  Speaker 5: good support system overall for the US economy. Now, we
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  Speaker 5: actually pulled, by the way, our negative growth rate quite
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  Speaker 5: a while ago, and I'm losing track of time here
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  Speaker 5: in my old age, but.
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  Speaker 4: You know, we have, we have pulled it. And again
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  Speaker 4: we're sticking to that soft planning.
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  Speaker 5: So we've got, you know, growth slowing from that sustainable
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  Speaker 5: I think five point two percent growth rate in Q
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  Speaker 5: three down to about one percent in Q four and
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  Speaker 5: then flattening out a little bit around you know, the
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  Speaker 5: point two is or so over the next first half
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  Speaker 5: of next year.
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  Speaker 4: Jennifer talking about.
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  Speaker 3: Jennifer talked to us about inflation here. I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, for John Tucker and I it's all about
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  Speaker 2: filling up our cars with gasoline down at the Jersey Shore.
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  Speaker 2: And I just filled up for three dollars and ten
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  Speaker 2: cents a gallon. I feel like inflation's coming down, but
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  Speaker 2: I'm guessing the Fed does engage it on my gasoline
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  Speaker 2: intake here. But so, how do you think the FED
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  Speaker 2: is viewing inflation and the fight against inflation.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's viewing it with a very cautious outlook.
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  Speaker 5: And even though you know, for example, like last week,
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  Speaker 5: when Governor Waller introduced the whole cost of rape cuts
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  Speaker 5: into the whole conversation, which everyone like got super excited about,
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  Speaker 5: you know, he didn't, you know, he just said that
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  Speaker 5: was like a he was encouraged by that number, and
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  Speaker 5: in needs. I think he said like three four or
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  Speaker 5: five months before they can start.
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  Speaker 4: Talking about rapecuts.
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  Speaker 5: So he didn't mention that they're going to start cutting race.
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  Speaker 5: He says, we need to see a few more months
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  Speaker 5: worth of of better inflation data before we do anything.
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  Speaker 5: So I think they're really with a very cautious outlook.
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  Speaker 5: But again, you know, we when we have longer term
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  Speaker 5: inflationary pressures out there, like from the labor market, you know,
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  Speaker 5: like we have the working age population globally has already
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  Speaker 5: basically peaked, right, so we're seeing a.
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  Speaker 4: Lot of people retiring, a lot of people.
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  Speaker 5: Shifting industries, so there's still that tightness.
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  Speaker 4: In the labor market.
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  Speaker 5: And this is like again a global phenomenon, and certainly
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  Speaker 5: that in the US. I think Bloomberg ran a story
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  Speaker 5: this morning about meurses being you know, a short supply
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  Speaker 5: as another example of a of an industry that needs workers.
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  Speaker 5: So that's going to cause out for pressure on wages
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  Speaker 5: and the labor market. And then I'm going to go,
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  Speaker 5: I'm going to point to mother Nature again and climate
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  Speaker 5: that's been causing so much havoc all over the world
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  Speaker 5: in terms of like floods and droughts, and I think
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  Speaker 5: that's going to have you know, some still upward pressure
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  Speaker 5: on food prices and all that. And of course all
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  Speaker 5: the wars are having upper pressure on energy prices, so
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  Speaker 5: all that I think still has I'm a bit worried
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  Speaker 5: still about inflation. Not going to call it an all
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  Speaker 5: clear just yet, and I think the FED would probably agree.
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  Speaker 6: On Friday's jobs report, we'll also get a reading on
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  Speaker 6: average hourly earnings. What are you seeing when it comes
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  Speaker 6: to wage growth, because that is something that we know
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  Speaker 6: FED Chair Jero Pal is watching really closely.
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  Speaker 5: So we're looking for about a three times increase, which
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  Speaker 5: is in line with consensus, you know, about four percent
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  Speaker 5: year over year. Still steady, but coming down maybe because
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  Speaker 5: we already know that the economy is slowing. It's not
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  Speaker 5: five point two percent anymore. You know, it's probably closer
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  Speaker 5: to one percent this quarter. Demand is starting to slow.
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  Speaker 5: We're not seeing you know, three hundred thousand jobs job
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  Speaker 5: increases anymore. So I think wage demands and the fact
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  Speaker 5: that inflation, as we just said, is coming down, I
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  Speaker 5: think it's going to temperate demand for earnings.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 5: Having said that, you know, I'm also a bit concerned
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  Speaker 5: just given all the strikes that we've seen over the
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  Speaker 5: past year, and I don't remember have a time where
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  Speaker 5: we saw so many and demands were being met. So
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  Speaker 5: that again is sort of like that, you know, on
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  Speaker 5: the one hand, on the other hand, thing with which
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  Speaker 5: I shouldn't be doing, but I'm doing it anyway, you know,
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  Speaker 5: overall slowing demand for labor, but still you know, there's
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  Speaker 5: still that that big source overall, So I think it's
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  Speaker 5: still gonna be steadyish, but slower wage growth overall.
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  Speaker 2: Jennifer, Outside of the US, where you kind of focusing
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  Speaker 2: on where's the next where's the big delta?
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  Speaker 3: Is it Europe? Is it Asia? Outside the US? Where
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  Speaker 3: are you focusing?
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  Speaker 5: I'm kind of worried about Europe, frankly, but although this
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  Speaker 5: morning I will say that was a little bit more relieved.
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  Speaker 5: You know, it was like some and we normally don't
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  Speaker 5: look at revisions too much for services and composite.
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  Speaker 4: Pmis because they usually don't change that much.
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  Speaker 5: But the fact that they all realized higher, particularly in
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  Speaker 5: the UK as well, back over fifty was a little
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  Speaker 5: bit gratifying. And the fact that you know that last
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  Speaker 5: week's inflation rate for the for the for the euro
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  Speaker 5: Area the lowest in almost in over two years actually,
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  Speaker 5: And the fact that one of the big uber hawks herself,
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  Speaker 5: you know, is a belish novel of the vice executive
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  Speaker 5: board member of the ECB, actually said that you know,
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  Speaker 5: when things change, she changes her mind. And that's something
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  Speaker 5: huge coming from her, you know, some of the other hawks,
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  Speaker 5: you know from the bundes Bank, and we haven't heard
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  Speaker 5: from Austria recently, but you know, I think there's still
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  Speaker 5: very more cautious on the outlook. But I'm still again
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  Speaker 5: worried about when when the ECB will finally drop its
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  Speaker 5: hawkish talents, and of course they still are surrounded by
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  Speaker 5: wars over there as well, so that's a little bit worrying.
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  Speaker 5: And of course the UK is actually interesting. The data
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  Speaker 5: keep changing. You know a lot of revisions out there
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  Speaker 5: that you know, and we're seeing a lot of change
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  Speaker 5: signs changing on growth rates, which is kind of interesting.
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  Speaker 4: But the UK is not looking as bad.
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  Speaker 5: As I would have expected a year ago, so a
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  Speaker 5: bit more encouraged on that front.
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  Speaker 6: We only have about a minute left. But if you
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  Speaker 6: were able to ask FED Chair Jerome Pala question is
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  Speaker 6: press conference next week following the Federal Reserve's decision, what
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: would you ask him?
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  Speaker 5: I would say, sir, with all due respect, if assuming
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  Speaker 5: no one's in the room, just tell me what exactly
• 9:11
  Speaker 5: is it going to take before you're going to start
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  Speaker 5: talking about great cuts? What will it taken? Tell me
• 9:16
  Speaker 5: all the factors. I can put them on my little
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  Speaker 5: checklist and check them off.
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  Speaker 3: What do you think should be on top of that list?
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  Speaker 5: How many months of CPI do you need to you know,
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  Speaker 5: and how much does it need to go down for
• 9:29
  Speaker 5: the three months and the six month annualized rate before
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  Speaker 5: you can start saying Okay, forget it, We're done. We
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  Speaker 5: are completely you know, I'll complete at this point, and
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  Speaker 5: I want to see what he thinks about for wages
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  Speaker 5: as well on the demographic front, and you know unemployment generally,
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  Speaker 5: you know, how how much how much do you want
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  Speaker 5: the unemployment rate to rise by in order to say
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  Speaker 5: that you are finally finished?
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  Speaker 2: Jennifer, thanks so much for joining us. Always appreciate getting
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: a few minutes of your time, Jennifer Lee. She is
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: a senior economist and the managing director at ABMO Capital
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: Markets up there in Canada. Always appreciate getting a few
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: minutes of Jennifer's time.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: Here.
• 10:05
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• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about private credit certainly a big, big issue
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: for us here. We like talking about it because we
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: see the growth in private equity is just so extraordinary.
• 10:30
  Speaker 6: I guess we'll credits around one half trill.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it really took off after the Great Financial
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Crisis when the bank started pulling back here. So, uh,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: let's talk to somebody who plays in this part of
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the sandbox. Hugh van steinas vice chair and partnered Oliver Wyman.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: He joins us, Hugh, can you give us kind of
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: your view of where we are on the private credit
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: boom out there?
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Is it overdone? Is at a healthy market?
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: How do you think about the evolution and the growth
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: of private credit?
• 11:01
  Speaker 8: Well, Paul, thanks for having me on.
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  Speaker 5: Now.
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  Speaker 9: Look, I think there's a big runway still to come
• 11:05
  Speaker 9: in terms of private credit, and I think it's driven
• 11:08
  Speaker 9: by a couple of things. I mean, first, as you
• 11:09
  Speaker 9: just said Paul, when you laid it out, the banks
• 11:12
  Speaker 9: have been obviously on a bit of a diet in
• 11:13
  Speaker 9: the last decade, and that's really advantage some of the
• 11:15
  Speaker 9: private credit players. But I think there's another diet to come.
• 11:18
  Speaker 9: If you look at the FED proposals, the FED may
• 11:21
  Speaker 9: be asking the banks to take as much as a
• 11:23
  Speaker 9: thirty five percent increasing capital for their investment banking businesses. Now,
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: I'm sure it's going to get watered down, but that's
• 11:29
  Speaker 9: an enormous squeeze, which means the banks need shared assets.
• 11:33
  Speaker 9: And then secondly, you know obviously had mark grown from
• 11:35
  Speaker 9: Apollo on earlier today. I think also the regional banks
• 11:39
  Speaker 9: in the States have really got some issues and are
• 11:42
  Speaker 9: selling assets at quite good good prices too, So there's
• 11:45
  Speaker 9: an opportunity set of bank shedding assets and on the
• 11:48
  Speaker 9: other hand, clients just desperate for yield. There's biggest source
• 11:51
  Speaker 9: of inflos this year is into private credit, you know,
• 11:55
  Speaker 9: as Jess was just saying, it's grown wildly, but it
• 11:57
  Speaker 9: might double again in the next two to three years.
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: So for the moment, I actually think the conditions remain
• 12:02
  Speaker 9: very ripe and a really good year for opportunities.
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: Do you see any sort of red flags brewing within
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: the private credit market at this point?
• 12:12
  Speaker 8: No, it's a great question.
• 12:13
  Speaker 9: So look, as a long time bank sell list, any
• 12:16
  Speaker 9: asset which any market which grows too fast always creates
• 12:19
  Speaker 9: at least an amber flag if not read Look, there's
• 12:22
  Speaker 9: a bit of frothiness, particularly look around leverage lending prices
• 12:26
  Speaker 9: are becoming tighter.
• 12:27
  Speaker 8: That area is really heavily bid.
• 12:29
  Speaker 9: For the note we put out last week, I work
• 12:32
  Speaker 9: through that twenty eight traditional asset managers have either bought
• 12:36
  Speaker 9: another private credit firm or set one up themselves, So
• 12:39
  Speaker 9: there's clearly a bit of frothiness around the leverage lending area.
• 12:43
  Speaker 9: But if I look at the kind of off the
• 12:44
  Speaker 9: run deals, whether it's buying bank assets, whether it's more
• 12:48
  Speaker 9: esoteric lending, it still looks quite an attractive spread. So
• 12:52
  Speaker 9: I think the leverage lending is probably the area to
• 12:55
  Speaker 9: look at. And then the second one, of course, is
• 12:59
  Speaker 9: who's the right buyers? Are the buyers ones who understand
• 13:02
  Speaker 9: this is the long term asset because you're basically getting
• 13:05
  Speaker 9: assets which used to be run by a bank but
• 13:07
  Speaker 9: are now going to get run by a fun manager.
• 13:09
  Speaker 9: You know, do they have the right skills to work out?
• 13:12
  Speaker 9: Do they understand this assets can be liquid? And as
• 13:15
  Speaker 9: ever in life, you know, we hope that the right
• 13:17
  Speaker 9: buyers by the right assets, but that doesn't always happen.
• 13:19
  Speaker 8: So that's another area that I'm very watchful for.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Hugh, Why do you think the banks are allowing this
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: to happen? I mean, when I was at the Chaseman
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Hand Bank, we made a lot of money in our
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: leverage lending business. I'm not going to let that business
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: go to the private market. What's happening on the other
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: side of the street.
• 13:36
  Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, it's a great question, and it's It
• 13:38
  Speaker 9: is extraordinary that you're getting even some of the US's
• 13:42
  Speaker 9: largest banks setting up new private credit units. It's really
• 13:45
  Speaker 9: a consequence of regulation, you know, the FARED or in
• 13:48
  Speaker 9: Europe the ECB are trying to jack up the capital
• 13:52
  Speaker 9: charges to hold leverage loans on the balance sheet. But
• 13:55
  Speaker 9: it's not also even just holding them, it's also the
• 13:58
  Speaker 9: trading of them. Now, you know, as you know, and
• 14:00
  Speaker 9: you've spoken about in the last few months, you know,
• 14:03
  Speaker 9: there's an intense battle and negotia oh sorry, a discussion
• 14:06
  Speaker 9: going on between the banks and the FED about what
• 14:08
  Speaker 9: is the right level of capital for the risks they're running.
• 14:11
  Speaker 9: And the large banks clearly think that they've got sufficient capital.
• 14:14
  Speaker 9: But if the FED were to apply the rules as
• 14:16
  Speaker 9: they're currently proposed, as I said, it's a thirty five
• 14:20
  Speaker 9: percent increase that's so ginormous, the banks will clearly need
• 14:24
  Speaker 9: to trim their sheets, shed some assets, be more thoughtful
• 14:28
  Speaker 9: about the marginal loan they make.
• 14:29
  Speaker 8: So I think you're right, Paul. It's been a great business.
• 14:32
  Speaker 9: It should be a great business, but it depends it's
• 14:35
  Speaker 9: kind of in the gift now of what the FED
• 14:37
  Speaker 9: will do.
• 14:37
  Speaker 6: Talk to us about the market for private corporate loans,
• 14:40
  Speaker 6: because right now they're facing obviously a very high rate
• 14:43
  Speaker 6: environment for the first time since they really boomed in popularity.
• 14:47
  Speaker 6: What do you think this means next year? Because even
• 14:49
  Speaker 6: if the Federal Reserve holds off on raising interest rates,
• 14:52
  Speaker 6: rates are still very elevated. How does that impact that
• 14:55
  Speaker 6: particular quarter of the market.
• 14:57
  Speaker 9: No, Look, I think that is a really good question because, look,
• 15:00
  Speaker 9: because the debt is mostly floating rate notes, so in
• 15:03
  Speaker 9: other words, it's been passed on to the corporate directly. Look,
• 15:07
  Speaker 9: as financing costs normalize, some of the weaker balance sheets
• 15:11
  Speaker 9: can be exposed. And you've started to see that even
• 15:13
  Speaker 9: in public markets in the last three or four months.
• 15:15
  Speaker 9: The trade between the stronger sheets and weaker sheets, even
• 15:18
  Speaker 9: in the in the SMP has been quite pronounced, i'd
• 15:21
  Speaker 9: say since since June. But you're starting to see that
• 15:25
  Speaker 9: move through the private credit market. You know, is it possible,
• 15:28
  Speaker 9: It would be surprising if there won't be some challenges
• 15:31
  Speaker 9: for a couple of the some of the borrowers.
• 15:34
  Speaker 8: And I think that's also you.
• 15:35
  Speaker 9: Know why the larger players will need to know can
• 15:39
  Speaker 9: they work out the asset, can they rearrange the debts?
• 15:41
  Speaker 9: You know, do they want to how do they bail
• 15:44
  Speaker 9: inequity if they need to? And I think that restructuring
• 15:47
  Speaker 9: element is going to become probably into the second half
• 15:50
  Speaker 9: of next year and beyond start to become more notable.
• 15:53
  Speaker 9: But you know, the current credit dynamics that we're seeing
• 15:56
  Speaker 9: in these portfolios, and admittedly the data could be better,
• 15:59
  Speaker 9: but from what we can see at the moment, they're
• 16:00
  Speaker 9: still performing quite well. Q.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess my experience is looking at this
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: marketplace that it's been very successful, but it's been focused
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: primarily on the middle market lending.
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: Do you expect to see these.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Private credit funds right, bigger and bigger checks going forward?
• 16:18
  Speaker 8: Yeah, so definitely we're seeing larger checks.
• 16:21
  Speaker 9: So, look, you've seen a four point eight dollars deal,
• 16:23
  Speaker 9: You've seen a four point nine billion dollar deal this year,
• 16:25
  Speaker 9: I mean, which would be unthinkable even.
• 16:27
  Speaker 8: Five years ago alone, let alone beyond that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 9: So you're definitely seeing Look, you know, in what I
• 16:34
  Speaker 9: think one of the most interesting features of finance is
• 16:36
  Speaker 9: how the winner takes. Most dynamic that you see in
• 16:40
  Speaker 9: tech and other parts is coming into finance too. You've
• 16:43
  Speaker 9: seen it in the big banks, You've seen it in
• 16:47
  Speaker 9: also some of the big asset managers, and that kind
• 16:49
  Speaker 9: of winner takes most dynamic is coming.
• 16:51
  Speaker 8: To private credit too.
• 16:53
  Speaker 9: So look, the top ten private credit players represent about
• 16:56
  Speaker 9: forty percent of the fundraising of the last twenty four
• 16:58
  Speaker 9: months and if anything, it looks like it's going higher now.
• 17:01
  Speaker 9: That means they can take on bigger loans, as you said, Paul,
• 17:05
  Speaker 9: but also it means that if you've got a you know,
• 17:08
  Speaker 9: a mid cap bank who maybe you know has got
• 17:11
  Speaker 9: some of the lending facilities from the from the FED
• 17:14
  Speaker 9: that they introduced around the you know, the regional bank
• 17:16
  Speaker 9: termoil earlier this year, if they need to shed a
• 17:19
  Speaker 9: few assets to you know, deleverage their balance sheet, they're
• 17:23
  Speaker 9: going to go to one of these top ten, top
• 17:24
  Speaker 9: fifteen firms. So it's not just mid market lending, it's
• 17:27
  Speaker 9: it's the larger firms are doing much more taking opportunities
• 17:31
  Speaker 9: or quirky off the run portfolios from banks. And as
• 17:35
  Speaker 9: you saw that with with with with Credit Suite some
• 17:37
  Speaker 9: earlier in the year or last year, I think this
• 17:39
  Speaker 9: is actually a really interesting seam for some of the
• 17:41
  Speaker 9: more skillful players.
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: Private debt was supposed to struggle when borring casts were rising,
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: but that didn't happen. What was the catalyst to make
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: it as successful as it has become in recent years.
• 17:54
  Speaker 9: Losh, that's a good question, Jess, because I suppose in
• 17:56
  Speaker 9: a way we've only look, this is the sharpest rate
• 17:59
  Speaker 9: cycle what since seventy nine eighty one, but it's only
• 18:02
  Speaker 9: really in the last twelve months it's really kicked in.
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: So to be humble, Jess, we haven't yet seen the
• 18:07
  Speaker 9: full seasoned impact rates.
• 18:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah, we haven't got there years.
• 18:12
  Speaker 9: Yeah, as Tom mkkeepe telling me, it's the long and variables,
• 18:15
  Speaker 9: isn't it trip you up? And I don't think we've
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: got there yet. So to be honest, Jess, I don't
• 18:20
  Speaker 9: think you see the evidence. So that's where look, if
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: you want to be bearish, you can say these season
• 18:26
  Speaker 9: cost coming through will start to be more problematic for
• 18:29
  Speaker 9: some of the mid market firms, particularly if they don't
• 18:31
  Speaker 9: have other sources of debt available. And in particular, let's
• 18:35
  Speaker 9: be clear, some of the regional banks in the States.
• 18:38
  Speaker 9: You can see the latest FED lending surveys and loans,
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: you know, lending rates are slowing quite materially, and so
• 18:46
  Speaker 9: it's not like the banks are going to pick up
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: the slacks, so they're going to be more dependent upon
• 18:50
  Speaker 9: private credit. Look, I think the like with all of
• 18:54
  Speaker 9: the economy we've seen corporates and households, I'm into this
• 18:58
  Speaker 9: with a much stronger balance sheet, right, and that's really
• 19:01
  Speaker 9: why it's taking over longer.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: All right, Thank you so much for joining us, great
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: great stuff.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I appreciate getting a few minutes of your time. Hugh
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: van steinas vice chair and partner at Oliver Wyman.
• 19:11
  Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape cats are live program Bloomberg
• 19:14
  Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the
• 19:18
  Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.
• 19:21
  Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
• 19:24
  Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Jess Met and Paul Sweeney were live here on a
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Bloomberg Director Brokers Studio streaming live as well on YouTube
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: stag Head over to YouTube dot com and search Bloomberg Radio.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Adding to my argument, my widely held argument here by
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: me that pound for pounds, some of the best money
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: managers are in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Is our next guest, Tom Pogner.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: It is I don't know what they're doing out there.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Tom Agner, Senior portfolio manager managing director at all Spring
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Global Investments. It will always be strong funds for me
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: with Tom. Tom, thanks so much for joining us here.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: My friend talk to us about this market. We had
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a ripping November mark it up over eight percent, yields
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: coming down dramatically. Was that it? I mean, we where
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: where do we go from here?
• 20:12
  Speaker 10: Yeah, hey, Paul, great to talk to you again, and yeah,
• 20:14
  Speaker 10: those were the good old days.
• 20:16
  Speaker 8: The boy.
• 20:17
  Speaker 10: It sure seems like we're playing into even the data
• 20:20
  Speaker 10: this morning, this Goldly Locke scenario. And I think one
• 20:23
  Speaker 10: of the things I try and do it which I
• 20:25
  Speaker 10: think you always did, which is look over the credit
• 20:28
  Speaker 10: markets and see what they're telling us. And you know,
• 20:31
  Speaker 10: after touching five percent, the ten years been ripping downward.
• 20:34
  Speaker 10: And I think even more importantly for US equity investors,
• 20:37
  Speaker 10: credit spreads are hitting new lows for the year, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 10: I think I was looking at it this morning. I
• 20:42
  Speaker 10: think we're all the way back to pre COVID levels
• 20:45
  Speaker 10: on credit spreads, which means investor risk appetite is up,
• 20:49
  Speaker 10: which is a good thing for equities and a good
• 20:51
  Speaker 10: thing if you're a growth investor, so what are.
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: You advising clients to buy and sell?
• 20:57
  Speaker 10: Yeah, so we've been telling them, you know, don't miss out.
• 20:59
  Speaker 10: I know it's been a magnificent seven year, and you
• 21:03
  Speaker 10: know we've participated with that. We own a lot of
• 21:05
  Speaker 10: those stocks, but we've we've had smaller mid cap stocks
• 21:09
  Speaker 10: in the portfolio in trying to find opportunities there. We
• 21:13
  Speaker 10: feel like that probably is the biggest misnomer from an
• 21:17
  Speaker 10: evaluation standpoint in the market today. They don't do as
• 21:22
  Speaker 10: well when rates are going up, but if rates continue
• 21:24
  Speaker 10: to go down, as we've seen over the last week
• 21:26
  Speaker 10: or two, you can see small MidCap stocks really participate
• 21:30
  Speaker 10: in this rally. And I think that's an opportunity. And
• 21:33
  Speaker 10: then the other thing we've been telling them is, yes,
• 21:36
  Speaker 10: technology is important. We like technology stocks, but have diversification
• 21:41
  Speaker 10: in your portfolio.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: So outside of tech, Tom, what do you think of
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: some areas are you? I guess some folks now, after
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: you know this year in the performance of the magnives
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: and seven, they're saying, boy, do I ride these things?
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Do I try to chase them? Or do I just
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: say I missed that trade? Now let me go find
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: some other good names and maybe have not participated in
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three.
• 22:01
  Speaker 10: Yeah, we would be barbelling it. So again, I wouldn't
• 22:03
  Speaker 10: be out of those names. I think a lot of them.
• 22:05
  Speaker 10: You know. Actually, like an Nvidia is trading at the
• 22:07
  Speaker 10: lowest PE evaluation it has in five years. People are
• 22:11
  Speaker 10: doubting the sustainability of the earnings that have been generating.
• 22:14
  Speaker 10: Even if you look over at Amazon trading about fourteen
• 22:18
  Speaker 10: times enterprise value to EBITDAH, you know, relative to some
• 22:21
  Speaker 10: of the big media companies, relative to Apple, which trades
• 22:24
  Speaker 10: at you know, well north of twenty times EBITDA, we think,
• 22:28
  Speaker 10: you know, there's still opportunities there. And then but I think, yeah,
• 22:31
  Speaker 10: go down the market cap, look at places like healthcare,
• 22:34
  Speaker 10: look at some of the things that kind of got
• 22:36
  Speaker 10: destroyed during this GLP one phenomenon, which we agree with,
• 22:40
  Speaker 10: like there's no doubt that that is going to impact healthcare,
• 22:44
  Speaker 10: but it's not going to really destroy the models of
• 22:46
  Speaker 10: other companies. And we think there are opportunities in small
• 22:50
  Speaker 10: and MidCap healthcare, in particular in medtech. And one of
• 22:54
  Speaker 10: the things that I think is really interesting is you
• 22:55
  Speaker 10: listen to some of these conference calls of companies like
• 22:58
  Speaker 10: A J and J. They are talking about ramping up
• 23:00
  Speaker 10: the M and A playbook again and that can be
• 23:04
  Speaker 10: very good if you in the small MidCap space.
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: You also sent us a list of stocks, one of
• 23:09
  Speaker 6: them Amazon on here and we're talking about megacap stocks here.
• 23:13
  Speaker 6: What is it about Amazon that you like?
• 23:17
  Speaker 10: Well, part of it is they've gotten the religion right.
• 23:19
  Speaker 10: So they brought in and I don't think it was
• 23:20
  Speaker 10: a huge surprise to us, but you want to see
• 23:22
  Speaker 10: the execution they brought in. The CEO came over from
• 23:25
  Speaker 10: the AWS side. AWS historically has run twenty five thirty
• 23:29
  Speaker 10: percent EBITDA margins, pretty healthy margins for that business. We
• 23:34
  Speaker 10: don't think the retail side gets anywhere near there, but
• 23:37
  Speaker 10: you know, getting it up from negative to zero to
• 23:41
  Speaker 10: you know, pushing mid single digits now, we think that
• 23:44
  Speaker 10: is a good opportunity. We think the data center AWS
• 23:47
  Speaker 10: business is bottom out of growth at twelve thirteen percent.
• 23:52
  Speaker 10: We know AI sucks, takes up a lot of data
• 23:56
  Speaker 10: center space, and we we think Amazon, you know, is
• 24:01
  Speaker 10: a good play on that. And that's again one that
• 24:03
  Speaker 10: we think is a reasonable evaluation, even with a pretty
• 24:06
  Speaker 10: good move it's had this year.
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: Yeah, up more than seventy percent here today Paul Amz
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: and the ticker on MED.
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, Hey, how do you view AI in general?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: It just seems like it became a thing so so quickly,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: and investors were just kind of clamoring and forgot, how
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: do they get some exposure here aside from Nvidia? How
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: do you view AI and do you have any exposure
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: there that you think is interesting?
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: Yeah?
• 24:32
  Speaker 10: I think you were believers, and so I actually spent
• 24:36
  Speaker 10: all last week talking to companies about it. I think
• 24:39
  Speaker 10: it's like eighty percent chance this is revolutionary, you know,
• 24:42
  Speaker 10: twenty percent chances this is kind of a normal net
• 24:45
  Speaker 10: secular shift within the technology space that that isn't as.
• 24:48
  Speaker 8: Big a deal.
• 24:49
  Speaker 10: But we're pretty big believers. We think the dollars are
• 24:52
  Speaker 10: flowing there. If you look at who's spending the dollars,
• 24:54
  Speaker 10: these are companies with who've historically been smart spenders, the Googles,
• 24:58
  Speaker 10: the Amazons, the meta of the world. And we think
• 25:02
  Speaker 10: it benefits not just in videos, and we do think
• 25:07
  Speaker 10: benefits and videos, but it's gonna start spilling over to
• 25:09
  Speaker 10: other companies, other semiconductor companies. We think as you go
• 25:13
  Speaker 10: into next generations, and a MD potentially benefits as you
• 25:17
  Speaker 10: move more into inference from training. We think power management
• 25:21
  Speaker 10: is extremely important and companies like a monolithic power plane
• 25:25
  Speaker 10: of that. And then we think database is extremely important
• 25:29
  Speaker 10: in data management, and there's gonna be a whole a
• 25:31
  Speaker 10: few different ways to play that. Our biggest position there
• 25:34
  Speaker 10: in the portfolio has been Mango dB. It's had a
• 25:37
  Speaker 10: great run this year, its valuation has come up and
• 25:41
  Speaker 10: lo and behold they actually report tonight. So I would
• 25:44
  Speaker 10: encourage people to wait and digest that news. But we
• 25:49
  Speaker 10: think the growth talent winds behind that business are being
• 25:53
  Speaker 10: underestimated and undervalued in the market, so we think it's
• 25:56
  Speaker 10: a good opportunity. But I would digest the new data
• 25:59
  Speaker 10: we're going to get tonight.
• 26:00
  Speaker 6: What are some stocks or industries that you don't want
• 26:02
  Speaker 6: to own? A good question.
• 26:05
  Speaker 10: I think we're still back and forth on consumer right.
• 26:09
  Speaker 10: I think the most recent data points have been a
• 26:10
  Speaker 10: little better. If you look at the projections for holiday spending,
• 26:15
  Speaker 10: they look pretty good this year, five to twelve percent,
• 26:18
  Speaker 10: which would be pretty healthy. I think we were at
• 26:20
  Speaker 10: three to four percent last year. I think it's you know,
• 26:22
  Speaker 10: so anything above above that would be healthy. I think
• 26:25
  Speaker 10: consumers are moving back to internet online spending, which should
• 26:29
  Speaker 10: benefit those types of companies again. And you know, I
• 26:33
  Speaker 10: think was mentioned prior to my segment here that you know,
• 26:39
  Speaker 10: even though the jolt S data is showing a bit
• 26:43
  Speaker 10: of a slowing in the job market, there's still one
• 26:45
  Speaker 10: point four job openings per job loss out there and
• 26:49
  Speaker 10: or job seekers, and so it's still a pretty healthy
• 26:52
  Speaker 10: environment if you're a consumer out there. And so it's
• 26:54
  Speaker 10: not the greatest, but it's not too bad. And so
• 26:57
  Speaker 10: I think there's a lot of back and forth there,
• 27:00
  Speaker 10: and so i'd say we're a little more agnostic in
• 27:04
  Speaker 10: that segment, and I'd say you definitely need to be
• 27:06
  Speaker 10: a little picky on what you're investing there. And then
• 27:09
  Speaker 10: i'd say the other that a little cautious on is
• 27:12
  Speaker 10: what's going on in the industrial segment. It's just we're
• 27:15
  Speaker 10: just hearing of increase tightening there, of companies pulling back
• 27:20
  Speaker 10: a bit. Europe seems like I don't think it's going
• 27:22
  Speaker 10: in recession, but that growth that had picked up a
• 27:25
  Speaker 10: little bit at the beginning of this year when we
• 27:27
  Speaker 10: talk to companies, sounds like it's kind of gone the
• 27:29
  Speaker 10: other way again. And that's that's you know, pushing kind
• 27:32
  Speaker 10: of zero percent growth and then China, to be fair,
• 27:34
  Speaker 10: has been disappointing all year.
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: Yep.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, Hey Tom, thanks so much for taking a time.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Really appreciate chatting with you. Tom Agner. He's a senior
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: portfolio manager. He's a managing director over at Afspring Offspring
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Global Advisors, based just outside of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Appreciate checking
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: in with him.
• 27:50
  Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape kens our live program Bloomberg
• 27:53
  Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the
• 27:57
  Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot com, and the Bloomberg App.
• 28:00
  Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
• 28:03
  Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Jessica bought a new car recently, twenty twenty four version.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: It's first new car I bought since twenty fourteen. And
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: what I noticed is it's basically a technology platform with
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: four wheels. It's software, it's point and click, It's basically
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: your iPhone.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: With four wheels.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: It's not so much about the car, is about the technology.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm wondering, like, who are these people behind all
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: this stuff? Like who does all this, We're.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: About to find out. Phil Jale he joins us. He's
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: the CFO of e carts, the Nasdaq traded company e
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: c X is the ticker based in China. Phil, thanks
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: so much for joining us here via zoom here tell
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: us just give us a thirty thousand foot view. What
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: do you guys do at e car x?
• 28:55
  Speaker 11: Thank you Paul for having me here. At least it's
• 28:57
  Speaker 11: a Phil So Ihak's actually is a year in uh,
• 29:02
  Speaker 11: you know, in design and the development and delivery of
• 29:06
  Speaker 11: the best best of a breed of a copy digital
• 29:09
  Speaker 11: copyter solution.
• 29:10
  Speaker 12: As well as the full stack of software.
• 29:12
  Speaker 11: Solution and automas driving solution for electric fed mobility urine.
• 29:18
  Speaker 12: So we are in this industry for six years already.
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: Who are typically your customers?
• 29:26
  Speaker 11: So we have Malti customers both in China and the
• 29:29
  Speaker 11: outside of China.
• 29:31
  Speaker 12: So in China we served for the largest customer like
• 29:35
  Speaker 12: a Chili group.
• 29:36
  Speaker 11: At the same time, we also provide our service to
• 29:40
  Speaker 11: you loadus Vobo post and the smart.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: So one of my favorite features is the heads up
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: display and it's like I'm flying inn F sixteen. It
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: tells me like you know, the speed limit and how
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: fast I'm going on all that kind of stuff. I
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: want to change the you know, the radio or the whatever.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: Do anything on the entertainment front. It just comes right
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: up on your screen.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: It's a little freaky, but again it kind of makes
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: me feel like I'm a fighter pilot or something nice.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: So Phil, talk to us about where your industry is going.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: It just seems like the the technology is so extraordinary
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: making such leaps and bounds. Here when I go to
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas in January, it's no
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: longer it's basically an auto show, you know, with some
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: some some pecs around it.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Talk to us about where the technology is going.
• 30:27
  Speaker 11: Yeah, sure, listen if the industry is a promising and
• 30:30
  Speaker 11: uh got a lots of dramatic changes.
• 30:33
  Speaker 12: So, uh, the eve eco industry.
• 30:36
  Speaker 11: Already moved the front, you know, the combustion engine focused
• 30:39
  Speaker 11: to you know, electric fights mobility solution move a from
• 30:43
  Speaker 11: you know, the traditional Veico to you know, uh Thomas
• 30:46
  Speaker 11: driving focus, so least to the industry is moving very fast.
• 30:50
  Speaker 11: And now we are entering into an uielectional electronic mobility
• 30:55
  Speaker 11: solution with the Eco Solutions cob Nation mode. So ECAs
• 30:59
  Speaker 11: is seeing the ripest to support the industry transformation right.
• 31:03
  Speaker 6: Now, talk to us about how the EV market is
• 31:07
  Speaker 6: different in China versus the US.
• 31:10
  Speaker 11: Yeah, definitely, so China, the new V market in Chinese
• 31:14
  Speaker 11: woming As, we can see that we have many new
• 31:17
  Speaker 11: players in the market, and right now China, our players
• 31:21
  Speaker 11: actually provide the best of the reader's solutions in least
• 31:24
  Speaker 11: the industry, not only for the Chinese MS, but also
• 31:28
  Speaker 11: you know they are going abroad. They are going to
• 31:31
  Speaker 11: provide the services in euro market, in the US market
• 31:35
  Speaker 11: to support those of global em to grow and a strife.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: So it's it's interesting here. I mean, we just think
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: about all the technology here. Talk to us about your
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: company a little bit. I see the stockdown about sixty
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: percent year to date. What's the what's the story that
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: you're telling your investors here?
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: Okay, so Ihas, Actually we are performing pretty well in
• 31:57
  Speaker 11: terms of the financial performance. We are announced in a
• 32:01
  Speaker 11: produltry our popeline granary growth group at fifty percent year
• 32:06
  Speaker 11: a year, and our gross Marting percent gross Martin dollar
• 32:09
  Speaker 11: also grew one and forty percent year growth. All those
• 32:13
  Speaker 11: strong financial performance indiquate LA. We are in good shape
• 32:16
  Speaker 11: at the same time. Right, for example, we provide our
• 32:19
  Speaker 11: full stack solution to many vehicles program. For example, we
• 32:23
  Speaker 11: just support link D zero eight, the vehicle to launch
• 32:28
  Speaker 11: in a year.
• 32:28
  Speaker 12: Right will provide not.
• 32:29
  Speaker 11: Only in the computing platform, but also will provide you know,
• 32:33
  Speaker 11: as a solution, a common striving containing on it as
• 32:36
  Speaker 11: well as you know, we operating system called framing Auto.
• 32:39
  Speaker 11: So basically with that we are able to increase the
• 32:42
  Speaker 11: content per vehicle and increase our pop line and the
• 32:46
  Speaker 11: profitability as well. So we are long term focused the
• 32:50
  Speaker 11: company we serve for the customer value. And right now
• 32:55
  Speaker 11: I would say letter our stock prices under value.
• 32:58
  Speaker 8: But it's okay.
• 33:00
  Speaker 11: We are we are working on you know, the customer
• 33:02
  Speaker 11: value enhancement and we really flat the investors. We'll we'll
• 33:06
  Speaker 11: see our UH performance recurring.
• 33:08
  Speaker 6: In terms of the surprise you talked about in your
• 33:11
  Speaker 6: latest quarterly results about increased demand from international markets. Where
• 33:15
  Speaker 6: have you seen the most increased demand?
• 33:19
  Speaker 11: So from the international market perspective, I do believe that
• 33:23
  Speaker 11: many traditional oms they would like to take it into
• 33:27
  Speaker 11: the new evening market and let UH change had taken
• 33:32
  Speaker 11: had taken place largely both in you know, Europe market
• 33:35
  Speaker 11: and the China market and lots of the global m
• 33:38
  Speaker 11: they like to play in a big way in China market,
• 33:41
  Speaker 11: so they want, you know, the partners like the E
• 33:43
  Speaker 11: cars to support UH.
• 33:45
  Speaker 12: Better plan in China as well.
• 33:47
  Speaker 11: At the same time, lots of the Chinese OM like
• 33:49
  Speaker 11: to explore into Lefolo print in global market and e cars.
• 33:53
  Speaker 11: We also follows oms to to strive to to you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 11: to to have the competitional advantage you know, gog market.
• 34:00
  Speaker 12: So that is what happened. We called the channel to
• 34:02
  Speaker 12: Global and Global China.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Phil How was some of the tensions between the US
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: and China, particularly it relates to technology and technology transfers.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: How has that impacted your business?
• 34:16
  Speaker 11: I think the challenge is definitely uh uh you know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 11: applied it to the industry, to to many uh many
• 34:24
  Speaker 11: players tech players in the market. And I think the
• 34:27
  Speaker 11: real issue here is how to address the customer demand.
• 34:30
  Speaker 11: How does customers want to have the trusted the partner
• 34:34
  Speaker 11: to support a UH vehicle to success succeed in the market.
• 34:39
  Speaker 11: So right now it cas also operate globally, so not
• 34:44
  Speaker 11: only in China, but also in Europe. We open up
• 34:47
  Speaker 11: our foot printer in the UK, in the inter States,
• 34:51
  Speaker 11: in Sweden and Germany. So we are truly a global
• 34:55
  Speaker 11: company and we collaborate collaborated with lots of the customers
• 35:00
  Speaker 11: on a different diretion from the countries. So that's why
• 35:03
  Speaker 11: we have confidence to you know, to bring a value
• 35:05
  Speaker 11: to the customers and then the folly business to grow
• 35:09
  Speaker 11: and win.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Hey, Phil, thanks so much for joining us. I really
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: appreciate getting some of your time on learning about your company,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Phil Joe. He is the CFO of e car X.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Symbol is e c X on the NASDAC and you
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: can put that into your Bloomberg terminal and check.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Out the stock.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can
• 35:28
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• 35:32
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  Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three and on.
• 35:39
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• 35:41
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• 35:43
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