Latest / The Family Teams Podcast / The Money Mindset of Successful Christian Families ft. Derrick Kinney

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The Money Mindset of Successful Christian Families ft. Derrick Kinney · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  guys, this is crazy, but dad lost $4,000 today. You could have heard a pin drop. They were murmuring, oh my gosh, this is going to be so good. Dad really screwed up. I can't wait to hear this story. And so I talked about what happened, and this light bulb went off in my head like, oh my gosh, I've been trying to be too perfect as a dad.
• 0:26
  Everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I'm excited to be joined today by Derek Kenney. Derek, thanks for jumping on here today. My pleasure, Jeremy. Great to be with you. Thanks for having me.
• 0:35
  Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm pumped to talk to Derek because he and I both really care about the intersection or integration of faith, family, and finances. Derek's really hit this from the financial angle as a financial planner and as a coach to the whole financial industry. So I'm excited for him to hit this, but I would love, Derek, maybe to introduce yourself a little bit to our audience. What do you do? What are you passionate about? And what are you into these days?
• 1:00
  So former top financial advisor built one of America's top financial planning firms. And I go on a yearly sabbatical every year to think and pray and journal and really get focused on what is it that God wants for me and how do I do that with using and stewarding the resources in the best way possible. Yeah.
• 1:18
  And so this was about five years ago. I felt like, you know what? The time is right to sell the business. I was ready for my next challenge. So I sold that. And now I have stepped into coaching, speaking, consulting. I like to say just how do I be the easy to understand money guy? Money is so complicated. But I like to weave in meaning and money together. And it's been a recipe that people have really used to make more money and also have more meaning in their life as well.
• 1:46
  Awesome. Yeah, I'm super excited to dive into that. First of all, though, so an annual getaway, any tips? Because I know a lot of families that we talk to, they're always trying to figure out, okay, how do we get above, get to that 30,000 foot view on our lives? What do you recommend families do to try to have that kind of, especially in an inflection point like what you experienced?
• 2:08
  Well, first of all, it's hard. I'm not going to say this is easy. Now, what I've done, I've done this for about the past 10 years. And part of this, Jeremy, was born out of a problem I realized I had. I tend to be an A personality, move really, really fast. What I realized, though, was I set so many goals and focus on so many things. If I'm not clear on what I want, I can run really fast in a circle.
• 2:33
  Then I'm even more frustrated, right? So what I realized was I began to take five days completely by myself to think and pray and journal. Typically, it's by the water somewhere. As a matter of fact, I just got back from my yearly two weeks ago on a lake, just rented a VRBO there for a couple days just by myself. And I asked three questions.
• 2:54
  How do I be a better husband? How do I be a better father? And how do I be a better business owner? And the answers to those questions guide what I'm going to run fast toward the other 51 weeks out of the year. Now, I often get asked, well, Derek, I can't take five days. No problem. Could you take one hour?
• 3:14
  Yeah. Could you take three hours? Could you take one full day? The key is it can't be in your house. It has to be in surroundings that are not where you normally go. Because if so, you're going to see somebody you know, you're going to think, I got to do the laundry, I got to empty the dishwasher, there's things going on. The goal is to pull back
• 3:36
  And as I like to say, put your brain on the payroll. You know, God gave us this amazing brain with this amazing subconscious mind. And when we just pull back and we go up in the helicopter and fly around and see the big picture,
• 3:52
  our brain and all of these resources start to work for us because there's so many voices we've been told of you're not good enough, you're not smart enough, you made a financial mistake back when you were younger, so therefore you must not be good with money. And we keep believing it. And what I would say is, until you have a plan for your life, life has a plan for your life, and it's probably not what you want.
• 4:17
  Very good. I'd love to nerd out for a second on what you just said about the brain, because I think that is something people are realizing. By the way, a lot of people who are thinking about getting away like the way you did, I'm sure part of what they're concerned about is, is my wife going to feel like this is a worthy use of my time? But if you're going away to ask, how could it be a better husband? How could it be another better father? It's like, you know, many of our wives say, please go on that on that retreat like that. That sounds like a great idea. So but I think one of the things you're mentioning and this is I've.
• 4:47
  You know, sometimes I feel like I'm being schizophrenic, but when I coach guys who are trying to really figure out how to get above their day, they're just, they're taskless, particularly when they're entrepreneurs or trying to start something new and they're used to being told what to do and all of a sudden now they're the boss.
• 5:03
  You have to separate kind of, I have to separate executive Jeremy from worker Jeremy. And so I have, you know, my days and my weeks kind of separated into these buckets. And I find that I do have to ask myself questions, you know, and I tend to hear answers. Right. And I can do that in my relationship with the Lord. I can do that because I have a right and left brain that aren't always talking to each other because there's a lot. We're very, we're much more complicated than we think.
• 5:27
  And I think oftentimes when it comes to creative problem solving, our major breakthroughs, I find that the way that that often gets unlocked is framing a question to yourself as clearly as you can and then kind of letting it go. And there does seem to be a process in which your brain starts to work.
• 5:45
  in the background on the problem. You know, and I think these things come together. But is that kind of what you're describing? Because this is, I think, something a lot of people don't realize. They're like, I can't think of the answer or solution right now, the top of my head. And obviously, I'm not going to figure this out. Like, we don't realize there's more resources available to us.
• 6:02
  Yeah, so I think about it like putting coal into the furnace. You think back like in the industrial revolution days, they show all these black and white photos of the guys in the hard hats and they're shoveling coal and it's firing up the furnace to basically power the whole company and the industry.
• 6:20
  That's what I think about our brain is that it's not a microwave. It's really a crock pot that's about to cook up a really tasty meal. We just have to put the right ingredients in and then let it simmer. That's the key. And so one of the games I play, now this isn't exactly how everybody would do, but I do a fair amount of local TV talking about money and business here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
• 6:45
  So one of the things I will do, I'll typically take an Uber because it allows me to think and work, but I will often play a game. And that is I will say, okay, I want to solve this by the time I get home from the TV station. That's my goal. So I know I'm going to present my brain a problem, and then we're going to have a solution, probably 70% to 80% there that I can take action on.
• 7:09
  And one of the things I'll weave into this, Jeremy, this might be somewhat controversial. When I say it, some people like it, some people don't. But it's been very effective for me and the other entrepreneurs that I coach. So many people say, you know, Derek, I'm just praying for God to tell me what to do. And I'm just going to wait until I hear clearly what to do. I'm just going to wait.
• 7:31
  And I used to do that, and I liken it to being, I'm going to go sit in my car, and I'm going to sit there. I know I need to go somewhere, but I'm going to sit there until that car starts to move on its own. I'm just going to sit there. Well, that doesn't make any sense, right? So what I've learned to do is, once I pray about something, read my Bible, I'm really feeling like this is the path God wants for me.
• 7:54
  Action leads to satisfaction. I then say, okay, God, based on what I'm hearing, I believe you telling me, what I'm reading, what a wise counsel is giving me, I'm going to take action. And now what I pray for is, if this is not the path for me, you close that door.
• 8:12
  But I'm going to take action because what I find is God is really the ultimate entrepreneur. He's the ultimate like private equity investor. I mean, literally, we talk about tithing all the time. You know, if somebody gave you the brilliant business ideas, how you can have the best life, and all they said was, you know what? Of everything you do and earn, just give me 10%. You keep 90%.
• 8:38
  I'd sign up for that deal all day, right? And so when we think about perspective, God has given us these tools and we want to make sure that we're using them so at the end of our lives, we're not at that scene in a lot of these movies where the main character laments, if only I had done this, if only I like to call myself an anti-regret specialist.
• 8:59
  You know, the past has passed. The rearview mirror is very, very small compared to the windshield, and that's how we want to see opportunities, and I think that's what God wants for us as well.
• 9:09
  Yeah, man. Yeah. And I also agree that God steers moving vehicles a lot more easily than ones that are static. Yeah, we got to take action. We got to do it in, I think, a state of active dependence. But you have to be active. So while like ask God, please interrupt me, please bring things on my path. But I'm going to I'm going to lead with action. So I'm curious. So one of the things that a lot of times families say about.
• 9:38
  their kind of financial situation is they imagine that they need to get to a certain milestone and then they're going to turn on the sort of generosity. So they kind of imagine, okay, I'm in my 30s. I've got little kids. I'm financially strapped. I know that someday when I'm in my 50s or 60s, if I reach all my goals, I'm going to be radically generous with that money someday. I'm sure that something's going to come out of me. What do you say to somebody who's in that state? Is that a good strategy?
• 10:08
  Well, I need to kind of set the tone here. I have always been a giver at heart. And so I'm a firm believer in tithing 10% and just being vulnerable because we've launched several new businesses. Some of them have income, some don't. We're actually giving 25% right now. And I say that out loud because it's a way to have more created dependence on God.
• 10:36
  You know, based on here's what we're doing, I believe this is the path you want me on, we're going to give you even more because I don't think you're going to get penalized in the eternal economy for giving more than the 10%. And so it challenges me, I want to go make more money to then do more good, which is what that's doing. So what I would tell families is this could be one of the best ways to build a family culture.
• 11:02
  You know, so many parents and grandparents, they often share with me, Derek, I feel like I'm struggling to connect with my kids or my grandkids. And one of the things that we find is, especially this younger generation, is while they're not as, quote, money-driven people,
• 11:19
  They're more meaning-driven. And so parents, even with young kids, if you can have a monthly family meeting and empower the kids and say, hey, mom and I or dad and I had decided to take $50 a month and we're going to give it to a cause or to someone who needs it. Kids, I want all of you to kind of put your antennas up and be listening and looking for where we might give that to.
• 11:48
  Well, now you've enrolled your kids and how can we find opportunities? They might come back and say, you know, my friend's mom lost her job. Or, you know, I heard about this and why are people asking for money when we stop our car at the stoplight? Could we help with that? And the point is, even with small dollar amounts, see, what we often realize is many, many people, they're working hard. Some of them make really good money.
• 12:13
  but they don't feel like they're in control. Like we're all spinning our wheels just like, okay, let's just get to Friday at five o'clock and I'll finally get some time to myself. And what we realize is we often feel out of control. But when you give money to a cause you care about, to your local church, to something that you have meaning in,
• 12:35
  you're in total control of that. There's no one who can take any of that away from you. You get to pick where it goes. And so when you have that type of agency, it's powerful. And so then as those dollars scale, now what I would tell somebody is,
• 12:51
  I just recorded some content on this just a few minutes ago prior to our conversation. And I said, hey, I like to help people get to their first million. And the first way to do that is to get to your first thousand. You got to take it in steps. And I said, of that first thousand, give 10%.
• 13:08
  Give 10% to your local church, which will cause you to care about it. Right off the bat, get in the habit of 10%. I know you're going to think you're going to find what I find is givers make more money because they often feel the passion of, I want to go make more money to then do more good work.
• 13:27
  So there's a couple of dynamics that you're describing that exist at that small scale that really align with the season of trying to build. One you're mentioning is...
• 13:41
  The culture, like you want to establish this at the foundation of the culture, your family's culture, being givers, being generous. So if you wait for 20, 30 years until your kids are grown, you've lost that opportunity to create a certain kind of family culture. And the other is you're stealing from yourself. And this one I find really this is pretty deep inside. I'd love to dig deeper into this. You're stealing from yourself.
• 14:01
  a deeper motivation. And this, I think, for a lot of Christians is, you know, Christians are deeply conflicted about money. Like Rabbi Daniel Lapin, you probably run into his stuff. He basically makes a living talking to Christians about their financial guilt, essentially, from the perspective of the Old Testament. He's just like, Christians have profound hangups. Obviously, the New Testament gives us a lot of warnings about the dangers of wealth. And so I think that a lot of us have
• 14:31
  just these conflicting beliefs, right? Poverty mindset or, you know, just fear around materialism and consumerism. And so, yeah. So, but you're saying, look, part of the problem is if you don't associate your earning money with a greater purpose of generosity, you're sort of
• 14:53
  I guess maybe leading yourself maybe into one of those traps. You can like talk to me more about, yeah, how does motivation itself, knowing that as I make money, I've already, and would you say predetermined to give? Is that part of what would create this motivational structure inside your own heart for like how to, you know, bring together these two parts of like, okay, I want to earn money, but I also want to make sure that it's aligned with a greater purpose.
• 15:21
  Yeah, so let me tell you a quick story. So I had a client of mine come in the office. This was a couple years ago. And you know those relationships you've got, Jeremy, where you can kind of tell the person is having a bad day without them saying anything, just their body language? Yeah. Well, Dave slumped in his chair. I could tell something was off. And I said, Dave, what's wrong? Yeah.
• 15:41
  He says, Derek, I don't feel motivated to go to the office anymore. And this was a guy, well-respected, community pillar. His family worked in the business. He was a top-rated consultant. He said, I feel like I'm just going through the motions. And for some reason, the question just shot out of my mouth. And I said, Dave, is there a cause that you care about? Why?
• 16:03
  Well, he sat back and his eyes got as big as saucers, and he began to tell me a story about a trip he took his family on years earlier overseas. He said, Derek, this village that we went to, the guide told us there was so much poverty in this area. But if there was a dedicated school building, it could revolutionize this entire community.
• 16:23
  And he remembered exchanging a glance with his wife as if to say, hey, wouldn't it be cool to fund this school? And they got back to the States. Things got busy. But my question flooded all this back into his mind. So I said, Dave, what if you did something crazy? You set a very aggressive sales goal. I'm going to increase sales by 30% over the next 12 months and take half of that increase and use it to fund that school. Okay.
• 16:50
  Well, suddenly he just awakened from this stupor and we began to brainstorm. We talked about put a tab on your website called Generosity Purpose and put a mock-up of what this school could look like and the vision for it, letting people know, hey, you can work with any consultant firm in the country, but when you work with us, part of our profits are going to help build this school to change lives. So what happened was...
• 17:17
  and neither of us saw this coming, his team got motivated because now they had a cause as to why they were working. They weren't just filing and shredding things. They were actually doing things with a purpose. And then his clients, he let them know, hey, just so you know, when you work with us, we're going to be donating part of our profits to this. Their business grew, their referrals grew, but the biggest winner was Dave. Suddenly, Dave felt re-motivated.
• 17:47
  He felt like he was younger. He was back in the game again. And suddenly now he had a reason to grow his business. He's like, Derek, now if I make more money, I can do more good by helping fund that school. And so that principle is we've taught this now to business owners and entrepreneurs and advisors all over the country. What we find is so many of us want two commas. We want to hit that million dollar mark. We want that bulging bank account because it's going to give us the fulfillment that we want.
• 18:16
  And we sacrifice our families, our interests, our relationships. And we look around. We've got the two commas, but nobody's there with us. There's an echo. And what I find is if you want to lay your head on the pillow at night every day,
• 18:32
  having lived a day of purpose and meaning, go make more money, go make a lot of it, but use it for more good. That way, every day you feel like you're having meaning and purpose. And one of the practical ways, and this is where churches and organizations could make it really, really easy for entrepreneurially-minded people to give. For example, I've always advocated at your local church, have a business, own the coffee. Yeah.
• 19:00
  Let them pay for your coffee for the church for the whole year. You don't have to promote it, but that gives them a sense of definition of, hey, we actually invested, everybody has coffee, and we're part of that. Or if somebody wants to buy all the new toys for the nursery every year, here's a specific role you get to play. Because so many people give, and they wonder, it's this ethereal, I'm using it to honor God, but it'd be cool to have a task and a specific reason tied to it.
• 19:30
  And so I think entrepreneurially minded organizations will find ways to say, hey, here's a way to make a big difference and know that you will have played a part in this every single year. Yeah, man. Yeah, that's having that at the very kind of inception of the culture of your family, your work, your business, like saying very directly, this is this is what.
• 19:55
  is tied to, and this is one of the results or reasons, like you're saying, like we're very, like when we were talking about earlier, our motivations can sometimes be a lot more complicated than we think. And then we think we understand what's driving us.
• 20:11
  Hey, it's Jeremy. If you love your family, but feel like you're drifting, always busy, rarely aligned, we made something to help. It's a free course called Five Days to Transform Your Family into a Team. It's five short emails that walk you through how to bring shared vision, rhythms, and purpose back into your home. It's simple, biblical, and practical. You can join us for free at familyteams.com slash transform.
• 20:39
  I heard you tell a story and I wanted to dig into this a little bit. You mentioned something about backing yourself into a, like a commitment. In other words, like saying, like maybe even pledging or saying, I'm going to do this. It's right now beyond what I think I could do. What's the value of that? Like, like give me more insight into like, yeah.
• 21:01
  How does that affect the motivation of somebody? How does that impact, like, actually what tends to happen versus I've heard other financial planners say, oh, never do that. You know, just like you want to, like, make sure that you have it all in the bank and you give it and you're you cut all ties. But there's an insight that I think you have about the nature of motivation that I think is often being missed in that idea.
• 21:23
  Well, it's probably because I'm more crazy than the average financial advisor. But what I would tell you is if you're watching or listening to this right now and you know that there's more gas in the tank than you're using, then I want you to hear this very, very carefully. Or you feel like, I feel like there's everybody else's way and I tend to go my own way.
• 21:44
  and I'm not satisfied with following the crowd, then what I would tell you is this. Sometimes you have to back yourself in the corner, and only you and God are there, and God will have to make a way for it to happen.
• 22:00
  You know, when I sold my business, I built a very successful business. People questioned me when I sold it, but I knew inside I'd reached the point where I wanted the next challenge. I didn't sell it to retire to something or to take another full-time job. I was going to back myself in the corner. I burned my ships just like Cortez famously did with his men many, many years ago. And now we've got to make something happen.
• 22:26
  And so when you have that mentality, whether you back yourself in the corner or, I mean, there was one time, this is going to sound really crazy, but there was one time that I felt like God was saying, you need to tithe your payroll. So I tithed the payroll that month.
• 22:42
  without a backup plan for how we were going to cover payroll. But as clear as day, I felt like God was, you need to do this. And so I told my wife she was on board with it. And I mean, as it all happened, we brought in more new clients that month than we had in a long time. Now, I didn't do it expecting, well, we're going to get a lot of new clients. I just knew if I felt strongly God was calling me to obedience and to do that, I needed to do that.
• 23:08
  And that's why I think God is really the ultimate entrepreneur. You know, he rewards risk. There's a scene, one of my favorite movies, it's not a Christian movie, but it's Bohemian Rhapsody about the band Queen. And there's a scene in the movie where the guy says, fortune favors the bold.
• 23:27
  And right now I'm reading Joshua. It's like my new business plan. Joshua 1, like 7 through 9. Moses has died. Joshua's taken over the helm. And God says to him, only be strong and courageous. Don't look to the left or the right. Basically, just stay in my word. And that's where I'm finding, you know, power and peace right now. But what I find is if you want to draw closer to God and you want to be a better leader,
• 23:55
  then one of the best ways is to create dependence on God. I call it, yeah, created dependency. So for example, there is a missionary that he goes overseas, and I believe in this theory called kings and priests, where some people are, they're the people that are going to go overseas. And so entrepreneurs and business owners like myself, we have the ability to make money to fund those trips. And so we have a standing arrangement that anytime he goes,
• 24:22
  He emails my wife and I, and we will pay for his airline ticket over there. And typically, almost every time it happens, our bank account is low. And so, but we always say yes, and then we'll figure it out. And so it just gives you a sense of like, we got to make this happen. And I often think about,
• 24:43
  Let's say this is a terrible example, but if I got a note one day that said a member of my family had been kidnapped, there would be emotions that would rise up in me. Okay, we're going to do something now. And suddenly there is this boldness inside of you that just would erupt. And sometimes you have to manufacture that to get stuff done.
• 25:06
  When my podcast first came out many, many years ago, my daughter and I have a tradition of going to the World Series. And I said, okay, unless I get a certain number of reviews, I am not going to go to the World Series. But once I declared that and said that out loud, my motivation was at an all-time high because I was not going to miss going to the World Series with my dealer.
• 25:32
  And we got the goal the day before and I drove my family crazy. Like, well, dad, what's going to happen? I said, no, what's going to happen is we're going to hit the goal because I said it. And now you just have to make, sometimes you just have to will things into existence. That's what it does.
• 25:47
  That's so good. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that this is just a way of understanding the way kind of human motivation works and that we need to make sure that it's working in the favor of the things that we're feeling called to. So, Derek, tell me anything else about how does this impact families? How do you think about the way that.
• 26:08
  You mentioned having a family meeting. I think so many of the families that are working with us, they're trying to understand what are the insights that really help keep the family united? How do we make sure we're not alone, like you described, particularly as men who are driven to succeed financially?
• 26:28
  You know, sort of famously, we tend to blow right past our kids, our wives. What are some things that have really helped keep the family together, cause that unity to be strong in the midst of trying to achieve some of these financial goals?
• 26:42
  Well, I speak from all the mistakes I've made, Jeremy. So most of the best lessons are from my big screw-ups. You know, I learned a lesson during COVID. We have four kids. They were all home. So we were having family dinners like every night. It was the best thing ever.
• 26:59
  Well, we had a tradition of going around the dinner table, and we talked about our high for the day and our low for the day, okay? And that particular day, I realized I had bought money in a stock that had lost like $4,000. I put five grand in. Now it's worth $1,000. I think, you know what? I'm going to share this story. So we go around the table. It's my turn. I say, well, here's my high of the day, but my low of the day, guys, this is crazy, but dad lost $4,000 today. Okay?
• 27:27
  You could have heard a pin drop. They were murmuring, oh my gosh, this is going to be so good. Dad really screwed up. I can't wait to hear this story. And so I talked about what happened, and this light bulb went off in my head like, oh my gosh, I've been trying to be too perfect as a dad. I thought the lessons were coming from my perfection, but actually the best lessons were from my vulnerability, admitting my mistakes, and...
• 27:56
  And what I learned is I just shifted my strategy instead of saying to my kids, Hey, let me tell you about this. And then it's wah, wah, wah. The lecture I would lead with, you're not going to believe what I did today. They really screwed things up. What happened, dad? And then suddenly they're into it with the object lesson. And the point that I learned is, A, we're not parenting our kids for where they are today.
• 28:23
  We're parenting them for the kids they're going to become and the adults down the road. And the other thing I've learned is if you don't share mistakes, money mistakes you make with your kids now, when they make them down the road, they're going to think something's wrong with them. Yeah. Because they never heard mom and dad talk about it.
• 28:44
  And so we began to normalize. We even went so far. This is going to sound really crazy. You're going to wonder, why did we bring Derek on the show, for goodness sakes? My wife and I had an argument one time, and I just had, whether it was wisdom or stupidity,
• 28:58
  I said, hey, let's normally we would kind of dip into the bedroom and handle it privately. But we just had the argument in front of the kids. And then we settled it and then came back and said, hey, guys, let me give you the play by play here. And we kind of talked our kids through what we were arguing about, what we decided and how we came to a resolution. Yeah.
• 29:19
  And the point was, which sounds crazy to all of our friends, we wanted to model for them that as couples, everybody argues. But nobody talks about it. So one day when you have an argument with your spouse, ah, this is what mom and dad had. This is normal. There was a couple in our home group one time.
• 29:39
  that we would go around as young couples and we'd share about, hey, our life and our jobs and what was going on in our new marriages. And there was one couple that they seemed, I'll just make the picture, they always had like a bag of dog poop hanging over their heads, okay? Like everything was always going wrong for them. They would always say something that always surprised me. They would
• 30:09
  And it didn't dawn on me, I wasn't mature enough to know then, but years later I realized, oh, it was their philosophy that kept causing bad things to happen. They weren't expecting it. They kept getting derailed by it. And so one of the gifts, and it's led all four of our kids now to become entrepreneurs. All four of our kids have their own businesses. And we've talked about, hey, it's hard. It's hard.
• 30:35
  There's highs, there's lows. And as long as you know that ahead of time, when it happens, you just realize this is just how it is. It doesn't derail me every time something unexpected occurs. Yeah. Oh, that's good. Man. Yeah, those...
• 30:51
  Moments, I think, where our kids see our heart as fathers are unforgettable for them. And I think we can so often miss that. So super helpful. Thank you, Derek. Well, how can people find out more about you? Tell everyone where you're at and how can they learn more if they're interested?
• 31:10
  Yeah. One of the best places is to follow us on Instagram. That's how we connect it as well. Every day we post ways to help you get closer to your first million. But it all starts with giving and enjoying better living as well. So follow us on Instagram. Also, we've got a newsletter that people tell us helps them make smarter money moves every single week. Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much, Derek, for jumping on here today. My pleasure. Thank you, Jeremy.