Latest / Breaking The Meta / Inside the WILD World of Micro Dramas ft. Shanna Sinow & Lawson Greyson

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Inside the WILD World of Micro Dramas ft. Shanna Sinow & Lawson Greyson · Breaking The Meta

• Breaking The Meta: ⁓ one Hello everyone, and welcome to Breaking the Meadow. My name is Mike Winson. Today we are sitting down with a very special guest. ⁓ she is an actor, ⁓ dancer, ⁓ singer, a musical theater geek like me. and she is also a you know, big rising big name. I'm gonna say rising big name. We're gonna manifest a rising big name in the vertical ⁓ micro drama world. And for those of you that are, you know, are constant listeners to this podcast, you're going, Mike, why are you talking to another micro drama person? You've never talked to micro drama people before. And I'm going to tell you one, I don't know why, but you guys have gotten me hooked and I hate you for it. I'm just going to tell you off straight, straight that. But two, you guys are just Amazing people. I got to interview one of your close friends, Lawson, a little while ago. And so I'm excited. But her name is Shanna Sinot. Hello, Shanna. How are you doing? I'm doing great. How are you, Mike? Good, good. And we've this is fun because we've got we've talked, but we've never talked. So this is this is gonna this is gonna be fun. And for those of you listening, make sure you stay towards the end because towards the end of this episode. We we're gonna we're doing something a little different. We're we're for those of you that might be new to microdramas, you're gonna get a taste of what a micro drama sort of really is. It's kind of funny. ⁓ it it almost made me want to go all the way through so I could really see where the episode went, but you know It's really accurate. I know you were writing it kind of as a as a like a joke almost. But some of these scripts that I've done, this is like Better than some of those. Yeah. ⁓ okay. So I want to start off because you and me are both theater, music theater kids. We're both really into the music theater. We're gonna talk on the micro micro dramas in a in a bit, don't worry. But this one's more important to me. What is two questions? What is your favorite ⁓ musical of all time and what's your favorite music? musical song of all time. Okay, those are two different things. Like they're from two different shows. My favorite musical of all time though is Sweeney Todd. Okay. I which is funny because I'm a dancer and it's not a dance-heavy show. No, no dancing in Sweeney Todd. No dancing in it. But the music geek side of me is obsessed with like the whole DSE Dre of it all, the the theme of deaths and I did a whole ⁓ presentation on it in college and how it comes up in every aspect. That it's an operetta. The harmonies in it are just gorgeous. I love a spooky story. I'm a Halloween girl. ⁓ which I think makes sense for with everything about me. I'm dressing my favorite thing, my favorite holidays where you dress up like somebody that you're not. That's crazy. It's like it's what I do for a living. Yeah. My favorite song is a little harder. ⁓ 'Cause right now I'm just thinking of ones that I like to sing, which is which is still different. I was always a big newsies fan, and once and for all live does make me tear up every time. And that one's kind of overste like it it's everybody says they love newsies or whatever, but I absolutely love and see the day. Yep. I quite have to hold it to that. And so Newsies is my favorite. With with with Greatest Showman a a short second. Greatest showman is good. I know they don't have a sea still like they're working on one now. I saw rehearsals for it. Heck yeah. ⁓ but yeah, and it's funny that newsies is my favorite and I can't dance. ⁓ okay, we're opposites. So ⁓ and then my favorite song Of all time in musicals is actually from Greatest Showman, and it's because of the harmonies in it. It's a million dreams. If I if I can get someone to sing that with me, I'm I'm like just I'm set. I'm ecstatic at that point. So ⁓ okay, so microdramas are a sort of new thing. In in the in the world of of Hollywood. They're really new in Hollywood. In terms of the you like the world, they've been in China for like 10, 11, 12 years. They've been there for a while. Okay. But here it's been like five. Okay. ⁓ so you've talked about how you kind of got into it, and one of the things that you said was. You got hooked on micro dramas before you started doing micro like you're a fan of micro dramas before you started doing micro dramas, right? Yes. I don't watch them as much anymore because I know all the people, but ⁓ if I catch an odd one where I've never met the person in it, I'll definitely watch all the free ads that I get. Yeah. So what is it what was it like doing Cause did did you kinda go straight into microdramas or did you do other stuff kind of before before you kind of really jumped into that? ⁓ microdramas are the first thing I ever did with film. Like I jumped right in with film, but I had been acting and doing theater and I did some professional shows and stuff for like six-ish months before I After I graduated college and before I just dropped everything and was like, we're gonna go all into this micro drama thing because it seems to seems to be working out. ⁓ so yeah, I I but I think I kind of just was like, at least in terms of film, like full sent it immediately with the ⁓ with the verticals. Okay. And having now done, you know, s a bunch of verticals, what Like if you had a chance to do a movie, would you rather do a movie or are you like you just in love with verticals? I would rather do a movie. Okay. ⁓ but I don't I don't see them as lesser. Like, they're just different. Verticals are a completely different acting style. It's like if you've seen a telenovela where they're slacking each other and throwing water on each other's faces, it's like that, but then also there's an episode every single minute. So you have to hook the audience every single minute. Which is it which just means it's very high stakes all of the time. It's very intense. I would love to do something more down to earth. So if that opportunity presented itself, do being able to do a movie would be just an absolute dream. My dream is t I would love to do a long running T V show, actually. Like like Supernatural or The Office. Like I don't care about what type, but I wanna be able to have the same character and have like a long term for them to grow and develop. I mean that would be that would be the dream. Okay. What if if you could choose the style, what would it be though? Like if you had a choice. I said supernatural. It would be something I love the like like the com it has those comedic moments. It has high action. It has but I don't know what it would be specified as. You know what I mean? It's not specifically a drama. It's not it I guess Is it is this fantastical element? Like a f like a fantasy kind of just like a like a I think the closest thing would be more like a drama TV show, I guess. Cause that's probably what it's classified as. And then it has comedic moments, but it's not like Parks and Wreck or The Office. And it's not like Gray's Anatomy. It's its own plot, but it's dramatic. So probably, yeah, I would say a drama would be the way to put it. And I really do like those fantastical elements. Like if I could do something like The Walking Dead Something like action would be sick too. Yeah. Could you give people kind of an idea on what because I'm slowly learning from watching now that I've watched you and Lawson, it's showing me videos from every single actor who does micro dramas on my TikTok feed. So I'm getting a somewhat a somewhat idea of what b behind the scenes look like. But could you give people an idea of how running A vertical is different than what a TV show or a movie actually looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The the biggest difference is the amount of pages we do in a day. So in a traditional TV show, in a movie, you do like a page a day, maybe half a page, maybe. Okay. ⁓ you're moving at a very slow pace. You're working for like eight-ish hours. Pacing for a TV show. is a little bit faster, but it's still anywhere from like five like three, five, maybe eight, like lesser pages. And you still are running on like an eight to ten hour schedule. Verticals, we shoot for twelve hours a day. The least amount of pages I've ever done is eleven. The most I've ever done is thirty three. And we're just cranking out themes like thirty minutes at a time. And they get like thirty minutes for setup, thirty minutes, maybe an hour for the scene if it's pre paywall. So a big thing. You you wrote your own Pre paywall so you understand that that needs to be it's the free episodes. It's what most people are gonna watch and you need them to be motivated to pay past that. Yeah. So they spend most of the time, they'll spend double the amount of time, sometimes triple the amount of time on a scene that's before the paywall than the stuff after the paywall. Really? That's They have such specific vision. I have less creative freedom pre paywall. After the paywall, go do whatever you want. You're the actor, you make the choices. Pre-paywall, this is the formula. This is what we've calculated. This is exactly your reaction that needs to be at exactly this minute. So they actually give you creative freedom after the paywall episode is like really. ⁓ depending on the platform, I will say some like some of the more successful platforms are stricter. ⁓ I have worked with a lot of the smaller platforms, ⁓ Drama Pops, Fig Glue, stuff like that, who in general just give you more creative freedom. But like when I worked with Drama Box, that pre paywall stuff, they are the client is very specific about their vision. There was one that I did where the client, ⁓ really sweet guy named Tom had this vis he we had been watching K dramas and wanted our vertical to emulate a K drama. And so he was pushing for those big dramatic moments, those big dramatic beats to have it emulate that style. Which to be fair, as someone who hasn't seen really many K dramas, it's hard to emulate the style of something you've never seen before. So then I was going home after set looking up K dramas and stuff. But yeah, the biggest way difference between film and TV and verticals is like the amount of time spent on stuff. That's crazy that you're you're literally doing anywhere from like 15 to 30 times more. pages than you would in a movie. That's wild. Yeah. It's yeah, we move at a very fast pace. I I've been on set for some like shorts and stuff where we're doing maybe four pages in a day. And I'm like, this is easy. Are we done with this scene yet? We've been here for two hours. So not used to it. Does that also mean that they're really like Because they're trying to do so many that there isn't much like downtime in those twelve hours? Like are you just busting through? I mean, if you're one of the leads, which ⁓ I've had the fortunate opportunity to have most of my roles be leads, n you don't really get any downtime unless it's like the scene where the guy is trying to find the girl to rescue her. Or there's a girl who's getting abused by this guy waiting for the lead to rescue her. Like it's it's There's ⁓ there's very few scenes where we're not together. Yeah. And those are the only breaks that you get. Now, if you're playing a supporting, a day player background, you have a lot more free time. But for those like principal characters, we're just moving from one scene to the next, to the next, to the next. Okay. So I told you on your ⁓ on your live that I had a surprise for you. Okay for this interview. For those listening, ⁓ I for because I thought it would be fun if we if to if I took a crack at writing kind of a jokey, but sort of give people an idea of what a of what a a vertical micro drama was like. And if you read the vertical micro drama, ⁓ you would have noticed, if you read the script, you would have noticed that there were three people in in that script. ⁓ I g I I I'll be honest, I skimmed it because I didn't want to room I wanted you to get my raw reaction. Okay. And that means that I had to make sure that we did this right. We'll see what do you mean? We'll see how good the timing is on it. This is who I got to get in here. I love that. I'm hello. Guys, Sally, hello. If you didn't see it already, welcome back, the wonderful Lawson Grayson. Hello, my friend. How are you? I'm so good. I'm so happy to be here. Again. I'm so excited to have you here. ⁓ Lawson and Shayna are friends. Yes. They are we're ⁓ and hopefully after we do this you can stay for a little bit because I want you guys to talk about the short video, the short that you guys are doing together. So but so what we're gonna do is we're gonna I gotta fly unmute. Okay. ⁓ we're gonna do this this micro drama that I wrote. and I don't know what you guys are gonna do, but I'm going all out. Like I'm yes, I was just it's a micro drama. I'm channeling the CEO billionaires that I have watched in the micro dramas that you guys have been in to make sure that I that I come out strong. ⁓ because I gotta I gotta, you know, I gotta make my play because we got, you know, we've got a director now here watching. And I wanna make sure that if she's like, you know, I want a podcaster from another from another state to come in and be on it. I gotta be ready. You do. You have to be ready, ready. I just to be so ready. This is our lost one. This will be our first micro drama together. You know, isn't that crazy? We've actually never acted in a vertical together. Only regular stuff. We didn't even meet acting. We met at a networking event that we were an award ceremony. Yeah, that's how we met. It's like we were at Verticon, I think, last year. And like her people weren't there. My people weren't like are like the people we normally hang out with at these things. And so like I remember going up to her and I'm like, Do you want to form an alliance and be friends tonight? And then we followed each other around for the rest of the night. ⁓ saving each other from conversations and like and and and making sure no one felt too overwhelmed and and getting margaritas afterwards. Yeah, which is so funny. We don't drink like almost ever, either of us. We're like the biggest lightweights ever. So we went and shared a margarita at the line. And we were sexy by the end of it. For sure. It was one of those things where we were like, We're gonna have to sit here for a minute before we drive home. Exactly. That's so good. That's perfect. I love it. I love it. ⁓ okay. So I named this this crazy thing. I don't even remember what I named it. Some some mil billionaire CEO from hell or something weird. Married my CEO boss from hell. There you go. Version two, by the way. Version two. Yeah. Well, that was me going through and going, cause I'd already sent the script to Lawson and then I realized. That I'd misspelled a bunch of stuff. So I had to go back in and actually like do the spell checking and all the other things. So I'm like, all right, this is technically a version too. So I'll I will call it that. ⁓ so we've got three characters, ⁓ a Nora Reyes, who will be played by Shana, who is applying to be an executive assistant at the business of Adrian Cole, who is the billionaire CEO of the Waltz group. Everything's a group, by the way. Just for anyone listening, they don't. They're there they're there groups or they're yeah, they're always groups. And then Camille Voss is works at the business, but is also the ex of the CEO. And that is a common, such the most common theme that you're gonna see in almost anything. So it's it's kind of hilarious. I don't know how this is gonna go out, but I'm so excited to do this. My family is gonna think something really weird is going on outside. I've already warned them that I'm gonna they're gonna be hearing some really weird stuff coming through this door. So it's fine. It's all good. Okay. okay. Are you guys ready? Yeah. No, I understand. I'm asking if there's a payment plan. Ma'am, he's two years old. He's been on that ward six weeks. Then what happens on the first? Why won't this work? Is this printer jammed or something? It's not jammed. It says error. It says trade two. That means it's out of paper. I I don't know where the paper is. I think it's in the cabinet behind. Do you work here? Not yet. I'm applying for the executive assistant position. I I need this job to help pay for my daughter's treatment. I've been waiting a while though, and this is the fourth time you've rescheduled. Wait. Did you say your daughter is sick? Yes. She has a problem with her kidneys, and if she doesn't get surgery soon, she won't last a week. Be in my office at eight tomorrow, and I'll help you with your dog. Who are you? The dumpsters in the basement. ⁓ I I was told to come here today for a job. You're the hussy that Adrian chose. Chose for what? The position of wife. Excuse me? Wife? He just met me. I don't even know who he is. You see, Adrian is the CEO of Walls Group. The contract is for 18 months, monthly stipend, four million on c completion of contract and medical support. Mr. Cole's grandfather structured the trust to vest on marriage. The board votes in nine days. You want to marry me? My grandfather won't give me control of the Waltz Group unless I'm married before the next board meeting. You need money for your daughter's surgery. It's a win-win. You met me last night next to a copier. That's precisely the appeal. You have no personal file, no colleagues, nobody in this building has seen your face except for a receptionist who already forgot you. There's nothing to leak. Miss Reyes is the entire qualification. And if I say no, I don't get the assistant job I I read your application. I don't believe you're gonna say no. One question. Then I'll sign it. Medical support? When does it take effect? Signature. Fine. This isn't about love. This is only for my daughter. Where did you come from? I felt drawn to this room. I don't I don't know why. Well, what are you doing to my daughter? She was awake when I got here. She asked me if I knew any stories about giraffes. So I've been here since four, reading her different stories. You've been here since four a.m. Don't you have a board meeting at nine? I canceled it. Adrian, you can also cancel a board meeting right before. She asked me to stay. So that is what I'm gonna do. As long as you are my wife, I will never let anything happen to you or her. This isn't in the contract. It's not. Then why are you doing this? Why would you care for us like this? Because you are my wife. And she is important to you. Contract or no, I will protect you. Why would you do that? I'm nobody to some billionaire CEO. You are nobody to me. Sit down, Nora. I'm fine standing. Tokyo $400 million, 18 months of work, and a 9 a.m. call. I built our entire year's budget around. And he canceled it from a hospital corridor because of you. I didn't ask him to. You didn't. You sure you aren't trying to get more? Because that's what I don't understand. You see, six years. Six years we were together. And I couldn't get him to agree to a Halloween costume. But in three days, he's sitting at some random kid's bedside with a woman he hooked up with? I don't want to hear any more of your disgusting lies. Have you even read page eleven of Mr. Disillusion is immediate and total if either party forms a personal attachment. No stipend, no four million. You can't do that. Her care is 11,000 a month. 11,400, actually. Maybe you should have thought about that before you decided to throw yourself at Adrian. Why does that clause even exist? Because we can't have gold diggers like you trying to take all of Adrian's hard-earned money. Besides, we both know you are a marriage of convenience. Once he is done with you. So you poison the well for anyone who might get in your way. I future proofed it. Because this came through my office yesterday. What is it? Your husband put himself on the donor registry for your daughter. He did what? Sixteen out of sixteen match. Sixteen out of sixteen, Nora. That's what a sibling gets. That's not what a stranger gets. No. It isn't. I had to run the lab twice. Then I had a second lab run it, then sat in the office until four in the morning doing the math. What math? Three years ago. September. There was a blackout across the whole city. Help by nobody could get a car. I never got his name, and I spent three years telling myself that was fine. You were there. But that's impossible. I was in Zurich in September. No, you weren't, Adrian. You I booked the flag for for you myself at four o'clock that afternoon. You canceled it. And if you want to watch the rest, you gotta pay 89 coins. Or, you know. The slack failed me. I couldn't keep it together. The slap. The slap. I love that like I went for one and then you just did one. It was so good. That was actually really well written. You didn't see the slap. It's okay. I I noticed you moved and then I went now. Huh? We were like joking reading it at first. And so I was like being funny at the first episode. And then Lawson started into a series. And was like, I have to walk in. I can't, I can't read this, like, ⁓ Lawson, you're you were locking in. I loved it. It was so good. You can't get me a villain and not expect me to go all out. That's right. That's right. And actually, this goes into an actually really fun question because Shana, you've said you've always wanted to be a villain and you've never had that chance yet. Yeah. It has not. I've been auditioning for them like crazy. I've been told I look too nice. They're very particular about looks. I'm sure Laws Lawson could tell you all about it too. They're like dark hair. I went through a weird like Yeah, I went through a weird phase, especially like early on with verticals where they would not hire a brunette for the lead. It was really strange. There was like only blonde leads, and then luckily I kind of like broke through that. But for the villains, they still definitely choose like I think just very sharp. ⁓ like facial structures and you know Shanna Yeah, you're so cute and like sweet. So maybe one day. Okay. I wanna talk about the short that you guys are doing. So Shayna, you're in it and Lawson you're directing it or are you in it as well? We're both and then I produced it. And then Shayna's husband actually ⁓ he directed directed it, which was really cool. ⁓ okay. Cause there were some there were some really there's some spicy videos of you guys doing that filming, especially, you know, it's not even spicy. I'm slapping Shane's ass somewhere. Which is so funny. Cause ⁓ it's so funny that you bring that like specific moment up. Cause ⁓ in the moment she was like just like it's like a very friend thing and she was like, just smack my ass. And I was like, I I was like so delicate and she was and Chase, her husband, was like lost and that's like not reading at all. You have to like go for it. And then I got a really good one and then I was like and then we just cracked up. So then we couldn't even use the tape. Cause like we were laughing so hard. but it was so funny trying to edit that piece, especially because my my sweet partner kept coming in the room and he was like, ⁓ Whoa! I was like, It's a short film. I there wasn't. So anyways, yeah, that's like it was meant to be friendly, funny. No But the behind the scenes video I got, I think just makes it look So much worse than it is in the actual film. Like in the actual film, you don't even really yeah, you don't even really see it in the film. It's like a like the very far background, but it was it was really funny in the yeah, in the edit ⁓ that you made. I was like, wow. So what is it like doing the shorts with with two people who are really close friends and your husband? ⁓ in comparison to like doing just a normal vertical. ⁓ it's so different. I love Shannon's like talk on experience. ⁓ I mean for me the biggest difference I noticed was I could ask for another take. I could be like, I'm so sorry. I want to try something different. Can we try something different in verticals a lot of times because we move so fast you don't fast you don't get that opportunity. They might let you try something, but you gotta tell them in advance. Because because you can tell when a when a when a take they were like, Nope, that's good enough. We're just sticking with it. That's the worst feeling in the world when they're like, that that was fine. And you're like internally like you're like, no, that I promise you that was awful. And they're like, it's fine. And you're like, no, because it's going on the internet forever. And they're like, we're moving on. And you're like, okay. But it sucks because all the vertical people I've worked with are all amazing actors. And I know that we've definitely put out a bad scene or two just because lack of rehearsal. The set isn't great. The prop they gave us isn't great. Just something isn't quite clicking. So with a short like that, we actually get like I w there was like one scene where we did my coverage and then we did Lawson's coverage. And Jace gave Lawson some direction that gave me like an idea. And I like, ⁓ my gosh, wait, can we flip again and and can I do it with Lawson acting this way? Because it was different on my coverage and it worked out. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like the tiniest crew in the world. I mean, it was literally the three of us. It was like one of those things where Sha I think Shanna and I were just at like coffee and she was like, I would love to just do a film because I was talking about getting into producing. And I was like, Let's do it. Why not? And I think we literally filmed it the next week. I like wrote it, put it together really fast off of an idea I had years ago. And then ⁓ yeah, we did it in one night with the three of us and that's it. No other what, five hours? Yeah, it was kind of wild. We like really we got through it a lot faster because I think we allotted like about a ten hour shoot day. And I think we literally got through everything in like five, which was how many pages is a short film in comparison to like other other like episodes like a vertical mini drama or something like that? They can range anywhere from like a minute to usually under 60. I think the average short film is anywhere from like ten to twenty. I think ours is like five or six. ⁓ or maybe not even quite. It's like four minutes. ⁓ it's on like the shorter side because we were just wanting to do something for fun and for coverage. Yeah, it wasn't like it really gonna go anywhere and it turned out much better than I anticipated because I'm not I'm not an editor, and that was like the main thing that I was like, I have a little bit of editing experience, but it's mainly for content creation, not for narrative. And I was like, There's still some things I'm like working on with the sound because I'm not an editor. I'll like send it to Shannon. I'm like, I think it's done. And then like bliss watch it again and I'm like, it's not done. Like she's like, hold on, don't do that. Don't blow it I'm like the sound is melting. Okay. So right now it's in Lawson's editing editing purgatory. It is. I'll get it eventually. There's just certain sound things that I'm like, I have so much more respect for sound designers now. Like the amount of things that I've had to like record on my own and like get little snippets of that like you're like, surely that exists on the internet. It doesn't. And so like little things like little like foot taps. I'm like recording it, watching the video, like recording myself walking to get the pre I'm not built for it. You can have me over. We can you can you can that way you don't have to watch it at the same time. I can help you. I know what's it called? Sound design? Yeah. Well like whatever they Yeah, all the foliage. Yeah, foli, like they get the foley sounds. That was like so funny. Yeah, it it is really fun actually, but it is quite tedious. Yeah. I mean editing is is very tedious work. Yeah. Especially if you have many cameras. It's I y yeah, no. Luckily we were only filming with one camera and ⁓ yeah, I'd say like color color grading was really hard. And then ⁓ 'cause more of it's just like it's just like math that like I'm not already good at. So then like trying to do it with that, I was like okay. Almost like it's in the same world. So you did a great job color grading. Which is It all looks like it's in the same space. Yeah. And I my brain was like that looks weird. Yeah, exactly. Especially because we were playing around with a lot of colored lights, which was great in the moment. Editing me, I'm like, God dang it, why did we f like mess with this blue light? It looks really cool. But like getting everything to match was quite ⁓ quite a task that was that was fun. It was a good challenge. That makes me think about how hard we must make it for the verticals. How like hard their job is 'cause like for movies, they spend hours lighting scenes. Yeah verticals we spend 30 minutes. Yeah. ⁓ so in when I got to interview Lawson, we talked about how she's married and had illicit children with like thirty plus billionaires in in her in her life. ⁓ you have obviously also gotten, you know, to to marry Queen. No. We have the same son and I I think that's and the same daughter. Well, there you go. Which is so funny. So after all of the episodes that both of you have done, we'll we'll start with Shana, but what what's a what's a story that you would love to do that you haven't gotten a chance to do yet? Like what what is a premise story that you wish that you would love to do that you haven't had a chance to? ⁓ There's been actually I've I've been really jealous there's been a couple where like if we're talking about in terms of vertical dramas where the lead girl is like a fighter and they put her in this all black outfit and she's got these like straps with weapons and stuff and she's like a spy of some kind and I wanna do I've I haven't seen them, but that just idea of playing that character, getting to play that badass sounds like so much fun. I have I'm not a stunt person. I have experience in Theatrical stage combat. However, that little experience I have has given me this insatiable need to kick someone's ass on camera. That's all I want to do ⁓ is just beat somebody up. I think it would be the most fun thing ever. other than that, I actually hit a lot of the vertical drama tropes. Playing a ⁓ werewolf would be nice. I haven't gotten to be a werewolf yet. That's that's why I have That surprises me. Cause I think I've done six werewolves. They like have werewolf specific people. Okay. All right, awesome. They do. No, that's true though. No, but I think it's honestly, once again, it's a look thing. Because like Shanna gives like cute you could you've done like the YA a lot more than I have, like the young adults. Yeah. Where like for me, they're like, This girl's not in high school. At least for verticals. For verticals, I've played a 40-year-old woman, which is crazy. I remember I got that tape and I like FaceTimed a friend and I was like, So I'm having crisis. It's like, do I look for it? On that topic, I just taped for a 38-year-old vertical lady today. I taped for that one too. I know exactly the one you're talking about because it literally was like, I'm a 38 year old woman. Slept with someone 20 years younger than me. Younger than me. And I was like, are we doing the math? Because that is almost a child. Like hello? That's That yeah. I mean, and and we talked about that, Lawson. Some there's some very interesting, interesting episodes out there. ⁓ I did think I know I actually sent you an idea before Lawson, but another I it actually got me thinking about a different idea. One of the things that I noticed that we'd never done, which kind of goes into your whole, you know, I want to beat someone up, Shayna, is every time they have a s like a strong, powerful, rich woman in there. The man is also strong and powerful and rich, just pretending not to be. Where they do plenty of ones where the man is strong and powerful and rich, and the woman is just not and and gets brought in. Then you guys need to do one where the woman is strong and powerful and rich, and it's just a normal guy. Yeah. Just a just a plain old guy who's like, I don't know what's going on, but I'm falling in love with this woman or whatever, whatever you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. We need to start we need to do more of that kind of thing because the ones where the woman kick ass are just no offense to the guys. The guys all seem like very nice people. I'm sure they're great people, but the the when the girls come out and they're just like, Yeah, I'm gonna kick your butt. It's just it's so much better. Yeah. I would love that. I think that would be really cool. Also, it'd be nice just like to have one of the women like fall in love with a guy because he's just like a good person. Yeah. Sorry, crazy concept. Crazy concept. Normal people. Yeah. It does make me think though, because you know, you have to catch them in the first six episodes. Like that's that that is the that is the time to catch them. Would an episode where the people were just normal in the vertical space would that would that click? Like is that is that what the people are like I don't know. I've never seen one without a secret billy. A secret billionaire. I think it's because like the audience is like mainly female and because of that a lot of it is like playing into fantasy. And I think most of these women have access to I hate using this word, regular men. but I think like there's something you could do where you just make this guy so charming and so wonderful. That like you could play that he's like not a billionaire, but just so wonderful that she's like, I'll give away my billions. Do you know what I mean? So I think it'd be cool. Like it's a popularity status thing. Like I the high school ones, maybe their parents are billionaires and and the girl is the scholarship student, but then all the students are are rich because they're at some private school. So it isn't about like the lead being a billionaire in those ones. It's about like him rescuing her from the bullying ⁓ or being the bad boy and it's like so those tropes are slightly different, but again, we're playing eighteen. Like that's not like a normal guy. Still is just a high schooler. That's the other thing. I don't ⁓ maybe 'cause I'm I I I'm old. ⁓ maybe like I don't remember eighteen year old anything being like what you guys do in in those in those vertical dramas in high school. They're not. No. They're not. They're fantasy. I was not when I was freaking seventeen, no way. I think I was like still like I had like a stuffed animal collection I like slept with every night when I was seventeen, so If I went to school in some of the clothes that the popular girls in verticals wear, I would have been sent to the principal's office. What do you mean? Yeah, there's no dress codes. There's no dress codes. All right, if I poured paint all over somebody's head in real life and the teacher saw it happen, you'd you'd get in trouble. Yeah. There's no consequences. ⁓ Shana, so Lawson knows I like to research people a lot before I Before I talk. What is the construction helmet scene that everyone seems to always want to bring up? That's such an old poll. ⁓ my third ever vertical drama is called Escaping the Bridezilla. And ⁓ the there's an intimacy scene in it because I'm a wedding planner and I go to this building under construction to scout out a location, and this guy saves my life. From us dying in an elevator, one of construction workers, like the elevator like crashes while we're both Yeah, it's a must. And it then ⁓ escalates into this intimacy scene. ⁓ and it's this character's first time because she because she's always a virgin, and so you know. so they're they're in the intimacy scene, and he's got this hard hat on with a chin strap, which by the way, I don't You have experienced with hard hats, but you don't wear it with a chin strap. No, you don't. And he fully has the chin strap on and he goes to take it off mid-intimacy scene. And then ⁓ I have a I had a line where I go, no, leave it on. And then the entire intimacy scene, which the the way they cut it together looks pretty intimate. He has this hard hat on. And there's like there's a close-up. I won't get into too many details, but there's a close-up specifically. Of ⁓ my feet near the hard hat, if you get the concept from by. Like, yeah. Which we weren't even touching, which is crazy. Like we were like two feet away from each other to get that shot. But I didn't think it was gonna look as crazy as it did. And it looked insane. And then and then We get to like the next morning, the morning after, and he's supposed to be like waking up and so Robert, Palmer Watkins, that's who I worked with, goes to take off the hard hat, and then our director Maurice was like, No, you slept in it. He was like, I slept in the hard hat And he's like, Yeah, you did. So then we did the whole morning after scene of him in the hard hat. I've like put my dress on and I leave. I did not know this lore. Yeah. This was my third ever vertical drama. We shot it in in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. and and ⁓ Robert Palmer Watkins and I both had egregious colds. And it was my first ever like intimacy scene that ended up looking as intimate as that one did. Like it was probably the most and it was so funny because he's in this hard hat like the whole time. I don't know if I could have you you're braver than I am. I don't think I could get through it. I'm like already notorious for laughing a lot during intimacy because I think it's just so absurd. ⁓ especially something like that, there's no way. I would have been a a nightmare to work with. So I commend you for Well, luckily 'cause I was so new and the director knew. Well it was also instead of getting a bunch of like our faces and us being super close, mostly it was like hands on sheets. And stuff like that. Like he made it a lot of insert close-up shots. So that ⁓ So your face could be laughing. Yes. My face was laughing. But then at one point, because we had three cameras. It was like cameras on his back, cameras on my face, and then a camera on his face, somehow all at the same time. And they were like, So you guys have to both be serious during this. No. That's No, there's no way. I couldn't. I'll never forget there was just a time that ⁓ I was doing an intimacy scene and a guy Took off a shirt and hit me in the face with a shirt. Thank the Lord it wasn't on my coverage. But fully like hit me in the face and the shirt just landed on my face. So I'm cracking up at this point. Like I could not breathe laughing. And he stayed in it serious. And I was like, we cut and I was like, that was amazing. I don't know how you did that. Cause like I fully was like losing my cool. If my team partner's giggling, I'm giggling. Yeah, so we'd be terrible together, is what you're telling me. No no, we'd be wonderful together because the chemistry would be amazing. I mean Right, exactly. Lawson would only hear half of what's going on anyways, so Right, with being deaf, so it'd be fine. You're deaf? Sorry, I missed you. How do I know more about Lawson than you do? That is not okay. I'm ⁓ I don't have fifty percent of my hearing. There does Aaron Oberst. Really? Yeah, when I worked with him, that was a whole thing during intimacy scenes. I had to give him clear physical cues because he couldn't hear the words. That's crazy. ⁓ but you have so is it like one ear or just like in It's one ear, yeah. I almost have like I think I it's not quite fifty percent, but I have the majority of my hearing and my left ear is like gone. ⁓ my gosh. Mm-hmm. How did I not know this? Did you notice when we I don't think you picked up on this, but when we like sat on the bed, I sat on the right like the side of you so that way I could hear you from my right ear. Cause if you're on my left, like if I'm doing scenes and someone's on my left, like I don't really know what's going on. ⁓ Yeah. That makes so much I just like wait till I stop hearing like noise and then I'm like, okay, I think it's my time to talk. Ow. Mike, you taught me something about my friend today. But apparently I didn't know. We we break the status quo here at He does his research, dude. It's crazy. Yeah, it's really impressive. ⁓ is it I asked Lawson this, is it weird because you're married, so you've actually gone through a wedding already. Is it weird going through weddings Again and again and again and again and again. They get so much wrong is my problem. That's the thing. Cause I've been married recently, like ⁓ just literally just a year ago. Yeah. ⁓ so especially weddings and proposals, both of them, it makes it easier in terms of the emotion. Because I can be like, okay, I can lock in to this like feeling. But Man, half the time they have the guys propose and then the girl just smiles and nods. I'm like, she would say yes out loud. She would use her words. She wouldn't just go like that doesn't make sense. And then at the weddings, they just go they just immediately like are like they don't even say I do. They're just like as long they d they like start the ceremony, pass the rings, and then they kiss. And there's like none of the I do's, none of the like Vows or anything. Yeah. Like it doesn't, it's not how weddings and they have to ask every time. They're like, which side does the bride go on? I was like, for me they've like asked which r hand the ring goes on. That one too, though. ⁓ my gosh, come on. Yeah, they'll like try to put it on my right and I'm like, guys, I promise you it's the left. Some countries do do the right. Like it is the right hand in certain places. But I'm like in the in the US, it's your left. Where's the weirdest place that you guys have filmed? ⁓ I mean Vietnam's pretty high up there. Or crazy. It doesn't have to be weird. Just like most unusual, most like it just you went in there and you're just like, I feel like I'm on a different planet or something like that. There's a s yeah, you go. Well no, if you know, you go. I was gonna say there's a really strange sound stage ⁓ in LA. And like half of it's like this old time bar, which is really cute, but then the other half is like a dungeon. Like a straight up like dungeon with jail cells. Like and I plead a witch. ⁓ No, like it looks like a crypt. Like if you ever watch that show, like Tales from the Crypt, you know where that little thing is, and it's like weird and rocky and ⁓ yeah, it's like a weird like tunnel cave system, but it looks like it it should be in like Pirates of the Caribbean. Interesting. ⁓ And that's like I filmed a few things there, and every time I'm there, I'm like, this is really weird. This is a very strange location. ⁓ when I shot in China, I was in there's well, the city I was in had basically the best way I can describe it is a city of sets. So it was like miles long, full of these like mansions and hospitals and shops. But they were all empty. Just the outsides looked like those. And then inside of all of those buildings were other smaller buildings. So like dungeons. There was one, there was a house inside of the mansion. And then inside of that house, there were like other smaller ⁓ like shock rooms and stuff that had nothing to do with what the house looked like on the outside. Wow. it was just, it was literally f and this they like these streets outside that looked like s shop streets, but then right next door there would be like a neighborhood that all of the houses in the neighborhood were empty. And it felt like the back rooms, like liminal space. Yeah. No nowhere led anywhere. It was a hundred degrees outside, no AC, a bunch of empty warehouses that looked like mansions and castles and and yeah, shops and hospitals and everything. It was crazy. Actually you you saying that reminded me I changed my answer. There's I don't know if you filmed here, Shanna. It's bizarre. It's a abandoned I don't I know there's probably like a better way to say this now. So excuse my ⁓ Gen Z-ness that doesn't care. ⁓ but it's like the it's like an abandoned s insane asylum. It's like and it closed down in 2015. Amazing mental ins thank you so much. So no one come after me. It's just the first thing that came my mind. a mentalist institution, and it's obviously closed down. It closed down in 2015. It correction it got shut down, which is kind of terrifying. And now they use it to film, and it's like a town where it used to also be like assisted living. So it's just like kind of the same thing like all these empty houses that all look the same, and then there's the giant like hospital that is like so eerie and uncomfortable. And one time we were in the children's ward filming. And it was like the craziest energy and like lights kept shutting off and like whatever energy was there did not want us filming. And I remember being like just like saying a prayer when I got in my car of like, please, these energies be nice and don't follow me home. I I've never really believed in ghosts, but I've seen like just I think a pl an abandoned mental institution, mental hospital, would make me believe in them because that is just no thank you. Terrified. Yeah, Is that in LA? It's in it's like just outside of LA. It's in Pomona, and I've shot like two or three things there now. ⁓ one horror film and then a vertical. And every time I'm there, I'm just like he be jeebies, you know? Okay, I'll have to let you know when I shoot there. I'm sure you will. It's a pretty popular location, but like any time we're there. Yeah, it's war insurgents we're having. Shannon, you just you had a new show come out, right? A new called The Apprentice. It's not out yet. It's it's ⁓ The Apprentice for that one. Yes. Yes. I have that one came out like two ish weeks ago. Three. You want to tell people what it's about, just in case they want to check it out. ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Sorry, I was like, huh? Do you have a question? No. I will love to tell you about it. It is a ⁓ micro drama as we've been talking about for most of this ⁓ podcast. That's streaming on Drama Pops. It is a women-loving women love story with me and the amazing Eli Jane. It is ⁓ very steamy. If you love a steamy, spicy romance, that's definitely one for you. ⁓ but it's also very sweet and very romantic. And the writer, ⁓ Ryan did a really great job making sure that it was like a true love story between the characters. Cause you know, age gap, ⁓ queer. romance does kind of sound like a a category on a certain website. So he did a very good job making it into a true love story while still fitting in a lot of these tropes that we see. So if you are interested in vertical dramas and want to see some queer stories, because there aren't as many of those out there, go check out The Apprentice on Drama Pops. And where can people find you if they want to watch? 'Cause you go live on TikTok a lot. I do. my TikTok is Shannon Sinel, I he's just first name, last name, which is easy. And so is my Instagram. I post ⁓ BTS and stuff over on my Instagram. I sometimes do fun photo shoots and just update you and when they have new stuff coming out. You're If you want to ⁓ see somebody cutting watermelon, come over to my TikTok page. I do it all the time. Yep. Yep. And Lawson, you want to let people know again where they can find you? Because Lawson started a business. It's it's an amazing ⁓ it's an amazing ⁓ thing. If you are interested, I'll Put a little thing, it'll pop up right now that's ⁓ that's a link to the interview Lawson. You can learn more about her thing. Yeah, and you can follow me at Lawson Grayson on Instagram or at Lawson underscore grayson on TikTok or a production company. It's gratitude, but instead of an E, it's a three productions. Shouldna, thank you so much for coming here. Lawson, thank you for coming and joining us for the second. Thank you for having me, guys. Have fun. I look forward to, you know. Talking more and seeing all the cool stuff that you come out with. ⁓ it was Yeah, probably we'll be talking when we make the vertical you pitched to me. Like I said, if you need a random guy, you know, I'm I'm pretty sure. ⁓ for everyone listening, thank you so much. Thank you so much. ⁓ people supporting and watching means the world to me. I know it means the world to Lawson and Shanna. ⁓ please hit all those buttons down below. makes it easier and possible for me to keep doing what I'm doing. Just for people that don't know, breaking the meta is about having hard conversations when necessary, fighting to break the status quo and the idea that all people, no matter your race, religion, gender, identity, deserve rights, respect, dignity, and safety. Thank you again, guys, and we'll see you next time on Breaking the Meta. Bye.