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The Rapture timeline most Christians have never questioned · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello everyone, and welcome to the 10 Penny Files.
• 0:29
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:30
  Sherry Tenpenny.
• 0:32
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• 2:00
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• 2:03
  Now, let's get started.
• 2:05
  Today's conversation is with D.R.
• 2:07
  Rokemore about his action-packed three-book trilogy, Wrath on the Tribulation and the Millennial Reign, which has more than 30,000 copies in circulation.
• 2:19
  DR, thank you so much for joining us here today.
• 2:22
  It was a pleasure to have you here with us on the Tenpenny Files.
• 2:25
  Well, thank you for inviting me.
• 2:26
  I appreciate it.
• 2:27
  You know, I uh uh you've um I listened to this trilogy on Audible, and it's a story set in three parts to the end of times, pre-trib, living through the tribulation and the millennial reign.
• 2:39
  Tell me your history of how you got interested in eschatology and to write about biblical times through a fictional narrative, which makes it more real, actually.
• 2:50
  Well, thanks for your question.
• 2:51
  So I'd have to start in the late 1990s.
• 2:54
  That's where the story began.
• 2:55
  So at that time I had what I would consider to be a moderate or superficial interest in the end times.
• 3:01
  I I knew a little bit about it.
• 3:03
  It wasn't, you know, a huge focus for me.
• 3:06
  Um, and if you recall in the late 1990s and early 2000s, that's when the Left Behind series came out, which sold something like 65 million copies.
• 3:14
  So what that did, uh, it did a couple of things for folks like me who were Christians already, who had a moderate interest, it kind of piqued our interest, at least it did for me.
• 3:24
  I mean, I I really enjoyed reading that book series.
• 3:27
  Um, and then for non-Christians, I think it um in a positive sense got their attention because they're like, what's all this stuff about you know the end of time and the end of days?
• 3:36
  And so my guess is lots of those books ended up in the hands of non-believers, hopefully many of them then um became Christians as a result of kind of reading a little bit about end times.
• 3:47
  So that's what um kind of sparked my or re-sparked my interest.
• 3:53
  I I guess you could say I I loved reading the books.
• 3:56
  I would uh I would even use them as evangelism tools, I'd occasionally hand them out like at work or other places like, hey, have you read this?
• 4:03
  Um, and and so they they were just a lot of fun.
• 4:06
  So the other thing I would say is at that time, every church I attended, every pastor was teaching a pre-tribulational rapture theory.
• 4:16
  And so it was comfortable for me.
• 4:18
  I was like, oh, this is what my pastor's saying, and now these books are reinforcing that.
• 4:22
  So I lived for many years in what I would call this pre-trib rapture echo chamber, where the only voices I heard were voices that reinforce this theory.
• 4:31
  And so it was warm, safe, comfortable.
• 4:34
  If you think about it generally, it's a very easy theory to accept.
• 4:40
  It's it's comfortable.
• 4:41
  I mean, honestly, who wants to sign up for you know, war, famine, pestilence, martyrdom?
• 4:47
  I didn't, you know, it's like don't sign me up for that.
• 4:50
  And so this pre-trib rapture theories, it's it's like a soft warm blanket on a cold winter's night.
• 4:56
  It's so comfortable, so easy to believe.
• 4:57
  And I bought it, hookwinded sinker.
• 5:00
  I never questioned and to my fault.
• 5:03
  Um, I wasn't a Borean.
• 5:04
  I didn't say, oh, this is interesting.
• 5:06
  I wonder if it's true.
• 5:06
  And I didn't go dig through scripture and find out if it was accurate or not.
• 5:09
  I just accepted it.
• 5:11
  In fact, I became a type of evangelist almost for the pre-trib rapture theory, a kind of zealot.
• 5:17
  I memorized all the arguments, read lots of books by pre-trib authors.
• 5:22
  And again, I was in this echo chamber where there were no other competing voices, right?
• 5:25
  This is all I heard.
• 5:26
  And so I, of course, I believe I was correct.
• 5:29
  Fast forward to 2006, and uh my father was passing away um from cancer.
• 5:34
  He was near the end.
• 5:35
  So I was in Ohio at the time, flew to California to visit with him.
• 5:38
  My mom had passed away a few years earlier, so it's just my dad.
• 5:42
  And uh he wasn't in any condition to have a lot of detailed conversations.
• 5:48
  So I had time on my hands, and and so I wandered into his library, and that's probably giving it more credit than it's worth, maybe 60, 70 titles, Christian books, because both my parents were believers.
• 6:00
  And as I was going through looking for something to read because I had nothing else to do, I noticed a title that said uh, you know, the spine of the book said the pre-wrath rapture of the church.
• 6:10
  And I had heard of pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib.
• 6:12
  I'm like, pre-wrath.
• 6:13
  What in the world is that?
• 6:14
  So I pull it off, flip it over, read the back.
• 6:17
  And it was clear after reading the back of this book, and it's the author is Marvin Rosenthal, and I hope everyone will get a copy because it's a fabulous book.
• 6:26
  Um, it was clear to me that Marvin was going to argue that everything I held dear to me, you know, as it relates to the end times was wrong.
• 6:34
  He was basically saying, I'm going to dismantle the pre-trib rapture in this book.
• 6:38
  And it really annoyed me.
• 6:39
  I was like, you gotta be kidding me.
• 6:41
  Who is this guy?
• 6:41
  So anyway, the topic interests me.
• 6:44
  So I said, Well, I'm gonna read it.
• 6:45
  My dad bought it for some reason.
• 6:46
  I'm gonna read it.
• 6:47
  Sat on the porch.
• 6:48
  I ended up reading it three times.
• 6:51
  And in this book, it's like an intellectual blitzkrieg.
• 6:54
  The Marvin systematically dismantled everything I had been taught about the rapture and the sequence of events using the Bible.
• 7:02
  In other words, he didn't use his opinion.
• 7:04
  He didn't say, Why think this or I believe this?
• 7:06
  He said, Here's what the pre-trib rapture teaches.
• 7:09
  Here's what the Bible actually says, point by point by point.
• 7:12
  He dismantled biblically using the Bible, everything that I had been taught.
• 7:18
  Which was incredibly disconcerting.
• 7:21
  I mean, I, you know, they talk about these different stages, anger denial, except that I I mean, I was depressed.
• 7:27
  I was like, wow, how could I have been so misinformed?
• 7:31
  By the way, it took me a few weeks to accept that this was true, this pre-rapture concept.
• 7:36
  Um, I Googled, trying to find rebuttals.
• 7:38
  I mean, I was determined to prove this Marvin Rosenthal guy wrong.
• 7:41
  I was like, there must be material out there that says, oh no, no, no, here's some Bible verses that contradict what he's saying.
• 7:46
  There weren't.
• 7:48
  And so it took several weeks, but I eventually um figured out like, okay, I was misinformed.
• 7:53
  What do I do now?
• 7:54
  It took me 10 years to answer the question, what do I do about this?
• 7:57
  So from 2006 to 2016, I would just try to influence individuals, have conversations.
• 8:02
  I got nowhere.
• 8:03
  And so I thought to myself, well, you know, the left behind books were very impactful.
• 8:07
  They influenced a lot of folks about the end times.
• 8:10
  Why don't I do something like that?
• 8:12
  And use that as my mechanism to try to educate my brothers and sisters in Christ about the true sequence of events and the true timing of the rapture.
• 8:21
  And that's what I did.
• 8:22
  So 2016, 18, 17, 18, I basically wrote one book per year.
• 8:27
  Uh, and since then I've been um using social media, um, of course, to promote the book series, but more importantly, to promote Marvin Rosenthal's book, The Pre-Raph Rapture of the Church and this whole theory about the the timing, the eschatology, what it what the Bible actually teaches.
• 8:44
  And I've been so I've been doing this since really 2018, I would say.
• 8:48
  Um, and it's been a ton of work.
• 8:51
  It's been uh it's been a rough fight to be in.
• 8:55
  You know, you you get beaten up like a we when I was writing these books, and I won't go into great detail, but the amount of demonic attacks in our family, the things that happened to me while I was writing these books are unbelievable.
• 9:09
  The the attacks, I mean, that's how you know you're in the right game when you're getting beaten up.
• 9:12
  And we got beaten up in ways you I you wouldn't even if I told you something that you'd be like, no way, you had to deal with that.
• 9:19
  It got so bad that at one point my wife, out of frustration, turned to me halfway through the book series and said, please stop writing these books.
• 9:25
  Because she knew she knew this was a spiritual attack.
• 9:28
  The demonic realm did not want this information out there.
• 9:31
  And I just the more I got beaten up, the more I stayed in the game because the more it was confirmation to me, then I'm doing the right thing.
• 9:37
  So that's sort of how I got here.
• 9:40
  Well, give us a couple of examples of that.
• 9:42
  Because and the reason I ask you for that is that you know, people may not understand really what demonic attack really is and what that kind of feels like.
• 9:51
  And that there may be things that are happening in their life that they just kind of blow it off.
• 9:54
  So share with us some of your experiences about that.
• 9:58
  It was it was so rough.
• 9:59
  So let's start.
• 10:00
  With work.
• 10:00
  Work's going along well.
• 10:02
  I'm getting these really positive reviews, like top 20% ranking.
• 10:06
  As soon as I started writing these books, everything fell apart at work.
• 10:09
  I they moved me to a new group to a new manager who started verbally like giving me a hard time on a weekly basis.
• 10:16
  It was awful.
• 10:17
  I mean, it was my stress level from work went from zero to 10, like in two weeks.
• 10:22
  So work just became horrific.
• 10:24
  Um, we my daughter, um, and I won't go into great detail out of respect for her privacy, but my oldest daughter ended up at that exact time with a medical issue that resulted in her temporarily passing away, like literally dying.
• 10:37
  She had a cardiac event while getting on a plane in Miami.
• 10:41
  Um, this is a wild story.
• 10:43
  We could talk about this at some point.
• 10:45
  Uh her she died.
• 10:46
  Her spirit left her body, floated above the plane.
• 10:49
  She watched from above the plane as paramedics came on the plane, put her body on a stretcher, took her out.
• 10:54
  She ended up being resuscitated on the way to the hospital.
• 10:57
  This was an 18-month nightmare that was happening all during this same time.
• 11:01
  We started having behavioral issues with another one of our children that were just horrific.
• 11:06
  So we were getting hit.
• 11:08
  I mean, we had financial problems at the same time that just came out of nowhere.
• 11:11
  We're like, oh my gosh, are we going to be able to keep our house?
• 11:14
  Over and over, we were just beaten down the entire time.
• 11:18
  And so it was confirmation for me that I was doing the right thing.
• 11:23
  And honestly, in my history as a Christian, I've spent lots of years as a couch potato Christian, right?
• 11:29
  Not really doing anything, just kind of coasting.
• 11:32
  I don't get beaten up during those times.
• 11:33
  Whenever I get in the game, whenever I try to encroach on the mnemonic realm on that kingdom, here it comes, huge target on my back.
• 11:42
  Things happen that are just unexplainable, right?
• 11:44
  Unless you understand the spiritual dynamic.
• 11:46
  So I'm just getting, oh, and during that time, uh I got cancer.
• 11:51
  So like I you're you're I mean, it's unbelievable to me that all these things happen while I was writing those books.
• 11:57
  And you can see why my wife got to the point where she's out of just exasperation, just please stop writing them because it was so bad.
• 12:06
  And I kept going.
• 12:06
  I didn't, I said, you know what?
• 12:08
  The only way the demonic realm is going to stop me from finishing these books is if they kill me.
• 12:12
  So they'll literally have to kill me.
• 12:14
  And unless that happens, I'm gonna finish it.
• 12:16
  That's what dude.
• 12:18
  What a rough time.
• 12:19
  What an insane time.
• 12:21
  Yeah.
• 12:21
  Well done, good and faithful servant.
• 12:24
  Well done.
• 12:25
  You know, you know, God never God never promised us an easy ride.
• 12:29
  And you know, he lets Satan sort of tweak us once in a while to kind of and because it's sort of like the story of Job, you know, you can do anything you want to him, but you can't kill him because he's never going to deny me.
• 12:41
  And you know, uh, the end is always successful.
• 12:46
  So, where did you come up with uh, or I mean, other than this book from um Marvin Rosenthal that you mentioned, the difference in definition between pre-trib rapture and pre-wrath rapture.
• 12:59
  It's a great question.
• 13:00
  The key word is wrath.
• 13:02
  So, in order to understand the correct sequence of events or the timing of the rapture, you only need to understand one thing.
• 13:09
  When does God's wrath begin?
• 13:12
  That is the most important question.
• 13:14
  And the Bible promises promises us as believers, we're not appointed to wrath.
• 13:18
  We're not appointed to God's wrath.
• 13:20
  We will never be subject to God's wrath.
• 13:22
  So you have to pinpoint when God's wrath begins, because that means the rapture is going to happen right around that same time.
• 13:28
  And here's the great thing.
• 13:30
  It's so simple.
• 13:32
  I mean, men have made this whole conversation, and nothing against folks with PhDs, but I've I've read books by lots of folks with PhDs and doctorates, and they make this so confusing.
• 13:43
  It's so simple.
• 13:45
  All you need to do is understand when God's wrath begins.
• 13:48
  And so the great news is the Bible tells us exactly when God's wrath begins.
• 13:52
  And it's found in Revelation chapter six.
• 13:55
  It tells us that God's wrath begins with the opening of the sixth seal.
• 14:00
  That's exactly when God's wrath begins.
• 14:02
  And it and it says his essentially it says his wrath is come.
• 14:06
  And so that grammatical construct, his wrath has come, is the same as Jesus' words in the Garden of Gethsemane when he said, My hour has come.
• 14:13
  Both speak of an event that has not yet happened, it's about to happen.
• 14:17
  So God's wrath begins with the opening of the sixth seal.
• 14:20
  That's what the whole pre-wrath rapture concept is based on, the timing of God's wrath.
• 14:26
  So that's fundamental, it's foundational.
• 14:28
  On the pre-trib side, they they falsely believe that the entire seven-year period is God's wrath.
• 14:34
  They just ignore this verse altogether.
• 14:35
  Like, oh, that doesn't really mean that, or it means it's retroactive to the first seal.
• 14:41
  No, it's not retroactive to the first seal.
• 14:44
  It's clear from the chronology and the sequencing there that God's wrath begins with the opening of the sixth seal.
• 14:49
  So what that means is we as believers will be here for the first five seals for deception, war, famine, pestilence, martyrdom.
• 14:56
  We're going to be subject to that.
• 14:57
  This five seals represents the wrath of man, the wrath of the antichrist, the rest of wrath of Satan, the trumpet and bulls are God's wrath.
• 15:06
  And so once you see that, you kind of can't unsee it.
• 15:10
  So the key is it tells us right when God's wrath begins.
• 15:13
  It begins with the opening of the sixth seal.
• 15:15
  So then once you understand that, you ask the question naturally, okay.
• 15:19
  So if God's wrath begins with the opening of the sixth seal, shouldn't we see evidence of a rapture right about that same time, right in that same neighborhood in scripture?
• 15:29
  And the answer is we absolutely do.
• 15:31
  Just a few verses later in Revelation 7, chapter nine, John sees a number of an in a group appears in heaven that's so large that no person can number them from every tribe, every nation, every people group, every tongue.
• 15:46
  So in Revelation 7, 9, that's the rapture church.
• 15:49
  And it's in that show the church shows up in heaven exactly when we'd expect.
• 15:57
  But before he does that in the trumpet and bowls, he takes us to heaven.
• 16:01
  He also, interestingly enough, seals the 144,000 for his protection because now his wrath is coming.
• 16:06
  So we've got to protect them from his wrath.
• 16:08
  But it fits perfectly and unstrained with scripture.
• 16:11
  So what the pre-the-so the difference is simple.
• 16:14
  The pre-wrath rapture says the Bible tells us when God's wrath begins.
• 16:17
  It begins with the opening of the sixth seal.
• 16:19
  Pre-Trib camp says, nah, we think that is retroactive to the first seal.
• 16:24
  We think the whole seven years is God's rat, therefore we'll be taken out before the seven years.
• 16:28
  That's the difference.
• 16:30
  And for the listeners, what is the sixth seal?
• 16:34
  The six.
• 16:35
  So when you read Revelation, you know, you get through deception, war, famine, pestilence, martyrs, the fifth seal is martyrs.
• 16:42
  The sixth seal is essentially God declaring that He's He's um His Wrath is come, right?
• 16:48
  And the seventh seal is now opening up the trumpet and bold judgments.
• 16:52
  So it's a transition, if you will, from man's wrath to God's wrath.
• 16:56
  That's what the sixth seal is.
• 16:58
  And you know, once you and that's why I say it's so simple.
• 17:01
  I mean, a 10-year-old can understand this, it's not complicated.
• 17:04
  Once you see this, then you start applying this the sequencing to things like Matthew 24 and all these other passages about the end times, and it fits perfectly.
• 17:15
  What I mean by that is in Matthew 24, the all of it discourse, Jesus provides this extensive detail on the sequence of events in the last days, right?
• 17:24
  It's famous.
• 17:24
  Everyone who's studies in times knows Matthew 24.
• 17:29
  Well, what interestingly enough, when his disciples ask him, tell us what's going to happen.
• 17:34
  What does Jesus do?
• 17:35
  He lists every single one of the five seals.
• 17:37
  And then a few verses later, he says, Then I'm going to send my angels to gather my elect from the four winds of heaven.
• 17:43
  So he lists the seals, then lists the rapture.
• 17:45
  What he doesn't talk about, which makes complete sense logically, he never talks about the trumpet and bold judgments.
• 17:51
  It's obvious why.
• 17:52
  We're not subject to those as believers.
• 17:54
  Those are for unbelievers.
• 17:55
  That's God's wrath.
• 17:56
  So my point is I could give you a dozen examples.
• 17:59
  Once you have this framework for the timing of God's wrath, and you juxtapose that against all other scripture related to the same topic, they all fit.
• 18:08
  It's like hand and glove.
• 18:09
  It fits perfectly, unstrained, no contradictions.
• 18:12
  What I came to understand belatedly, kind of after the fact, right?
• 18:17
  Um, in my pre-trib zealot days when I thought I was so knowledgeable and I was not, I was just parroting what my pastor said.
• 18:25
  What you discover when you kind of have this epiphany is that wow, the pre-trib rapture, you have to ignore scriptures, you have to twist some scriptures like a pretzel.
• 18:34
  Um, you you have to it's it's amazing the the mental gymnastics you have to do and the linguistic gymnastics that the pre-trib camp of which I used to be part, uh the the degree to which you have to twist things to make it work because it doesn't work, it doesn't fit, it's not biblical.
• 18:51
  Um, and I didn't, of course, realize that when I was in the late 90s and early 2000s, it's Bristol queer to me today.
• 18:58
  So wow, that's really that's super powerful because um there are so many different factions, I guess I would say.
• 19:06
  I'm not sure that's the right word.
• 19:08
  Um it is the right word, okay.
• 19:11
  You know, oh where you fall where people fall on the line of eschatology.
• 19:16
  Yes, see, instead of being a word with a definition, it seems to be a word with a with a range.
• 19:23
  And it doesn't see, and it's never really made sense to me.
• 19:26
  That's why reading through your trilogy here, your wrath trilogy, it just made so much more sense on all the things that were happening there.
• 19:34
  And um it interestingly enough, I'll tell you a little bit of uh a little aside.
• 19:39
  Um, when your books came across my desk, and you know, we had you um uh down for a guest on the show.
• 19:46
  I had already gone through because I've uh about two-thirds of book one on my audible account because I was so interested in what you had to say.
• 19:54
  So I was already like really excited about this because it's like, oh, now I have a good read.
• 20:00
  Reason to read the rest of it because now he's just on my show because I read all of the books from that.
• 20:05
  You know, you mentioned sort of in passing about uh the left behind series, which you know was 95 to 2007.
• 20:13
  There were 12 books, 175 million copies sold, and there was a movie series.
• 20:18
  Yes.
• 20:19
  Do you have further aspirations for your book along those lines?
• 20:23
  You know, I've learned as a believer, I don't try to ever open any doors for myself or kick down doors.
• 20:30
  I just do my part.
• 20:32
  I I do a lot of social um media posting, and I just let the Holy Spirit take it from there.
• 20:38
  I mean, I've been invited to their podcasts.
• 20:40
  I've I've been invited to speak at a church or two.
• 20:43
  So I don't, I don't try to make things happen.
• 20:45
  Does that make sense?
• 20:46
  Like if God wants to do something bigger with this, it's it's on him.
• 20:50
  It's not, I could never make anything happen for myself.
• 20:53
  I mean, who am I?
• 20:54
  And and so that's my perspective.
• 20:57
  It would be awesome.
• 20:58
  I I think the second book in the series would make a pretty wild movie.
• 21:01
  It's the closest thing to a Jason Bourne movie, is I could write as a book because it's pretty it's it's pretty intense and pretty graphic.
• 21:08
  Um, but if that happens, that's awesome.
• 21:10
  Um, but it's going to be up to God to decide if that happens, not me.
• 21:14
  I will never try to make something like that happen.
• 21:17
  Yeah.
• 21:17
  Well, give the give the listeners here listening to us today just a kind of a brief overview of the three books and how they fall into your wrath, pre-wrath of uh eschatology.
• 21:29
  Sure.
• 21:30
  So um they say write what you know.
• 21:32
  So honestly, um, a lot of what's in here are actual quotes for my kids and a reflection of maybe some of their belief systems.
• 21:39
  So um, you know, there's not coincidentally, there's three kids in in this family, and there's three kids in my family.
• 21:45
  So it follows this family.
• 21:46
  It starts a little bit before this seven-year period, which the Bible calls the 70th week of Daniel.
• 21:51
  So it it causes, it shows you a family who's kind of struggling with this pre-trib thing.
• 21:56
  Is that really true?
• 21:57
  And and they sort of gradually discover it's not true, and that we're going to be here.
• 22:02
  And so it book one is this family um trying to survive the five seals, right?
• 22:09
  Deception, war, feminine, pestilence, martyrdom.
• 22:12
  Um, and that's that's that's a tall order because a lot of Christians won't survive.
• 22:16
  Many in the church will be martyred for their faith during that time.
• 22:19
  Um, that's the fifth seal, martyrdom.
• 22:22
  And so it carries them through their attempts to survive, and then ends essentially with the rapture, which is the opening of this, which is it ends at Revelation 7-9.
• 22:32
  You could argue the last sentence in the book is Revelation 7-9.
• 22:35
  It's the rapture.
• 22:36
  And then book two picks up with a family member who's left behind who didn't believe any of this.
• 22:41
  They're like, yeah, that's that's all a bunch of fantasy.
• 22:44
  Um, and then that person then has to try to survive um through the God's wrath, which is the trumpet and bold judgments.
• 22:53
  And that period is really horrific.
• 22:55
  I mean, it's the whole seven years are pretty rough.
• 22:59
  Um, but if you're left behind um after the the sixth seal, and you have to try to survive, as say you're a Christian now, you're like, whoa, this is true.
• 23:08
  Um, I was wrong.
• 23:10
  Um, that's going to be pretty tough.
• 23:12
  Um, obviously it's clear from scripture that you won't be subject to like these demonic scorpions flying around stinging everyone because you'll have the seal of God on your forehead.
• 23:21
  That doesn't mean you'll have an easy life.
• 23:23
  I mean, it's going to be the whole earth is going to be in this chaotic place during that time.
• 23:28
  So, book two is essentially the trumpet in bold judgments and takes us right to the end of that time period.
• 23:36
  And so, book three is essentially the millennium, the thousand year reign of Christ.
• 23:41
  It includes, and you know, because you listen to the audio books.
• 23:44
  It includes kind of, and this was the toughest one to write because there's lots of stuff in the Bible about what's in book one and two.
• 23:51
  The Bible doesn't have a ton about the millennium.
• 23:53
  I mean, it gives us some broad strokes.
• 23:55
  The lion lays down with the lamb, the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth.
• 23:59
  You know, everyone has to go to nations have to send representatives to Jerusalem once a year, or God won't send rain on their land.
• 24:05
  And you know, it gives you some broad strokes, but I really had to dig deep creatively to say, well, what's it going to be like?
• 24:11
  Like, and we know there's a huge rebellion at the end of the millennium.
• 24:14
  So I tried to build that up.
• 24:16
  Like, okay, you have this almost perfect world.
• 24:19
  I mean, there's people are still sinning, but you have this like Garden of Eden type scenario.
• 24:24
  How in the world could all these people rebel at the end as soon as Satan is released from the bottomless pit.
• 24:28
  And so I kind of build up to that, how people become more disgruntled over time.
• 24:32
  Each generation is further from kind of what happened during the 70th week of Daniel.
• 24:38
  And so they're kind of entitled.
• 24:39
  And you know, and so I carry it all the way to the end of the millennium, um, and that final rebellion.
• 24:45
  Then I cover the judgment seat of Christ, where believers are rewarded for the things they did with correct motives.
• 24:52
  I cover the Great White Throne Judgment, where non-believers are then punished and judged for their sins.
• 24:58
  And then I kind of it's weird to say this, but then we go into the beginning of eternity.
• 25:04
  And of course, eternity is outside of time.
• 25:06
  There is no beginning, middle, or end of eternity, but how else are you going to describe it?
• 25:09
  The start of the new heavens, the new earth, and kind of a little peek into what that might be like.
• 25:16
  Um, so I think the books are unique in that they cover that quite all of that.
• 25:21
  Like from just before that final seven-year period all the way to what it looks like with this new Jerusalem coming down to the earth, which is 2500 miles square, just amazing imagery.
• 25:33
  Um, so it's pretty thorough.
• 25:37
  Um in that sense, right?
• 25:39
  And unique in that sense.
• 25:40
  And it covers the same family and the and the same family dynamics and how they interact and you know, how they respond to each other.
• 25:47
  Um, there are some very emotional parts in the book series for me.
• 25:51
  Um there were a couple of parts where I was like, wow, this is this is really an emotional thing happening that I'm writing about right now, and it was tough to write.
• 26:00
  Um, and then there's some scary stuff, and then there's some funny stuff, of course.
• 26:04
  So well, it's really really, really well written.
• 26:07
  Even though I, you know, I listened to it on Audible, but it's it you you just glued to your headset because you're just stuck right with the storyline.
• 26:15
  It's really, really good.
• 26:16
  So at this point, I think this is a good place for us to take a break.
• 26:20
  So hold that thought right there, um, DR, and we're gonna take a hear from our sponsors on America Out Loud.news.
• 26:26
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• 26:33
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• 26:39
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• 26:48
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• 26:54
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• 27:35
  We will be right back with more with DR Rokemore about his three-part action packed booked trilogy, Wrath on the Tribulation and the Millennial Reign, which has more than 30,000 copies in circulation.
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• 33:36
  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 33:37
  Today's conversation is with D.R.
• 33:39
  Rokemore about his trilogy, Wrath on the Tribulation and the Millennial Reign from a different perspective about the about the Rapture.
• 33:49
  Let me tell you just a little bit more about today's guest.
• 33:52
  D.R.
• 33:52
  Rokmar has spent more most of his career in leadership positions with Fortune 500 companies in the business services industry.
• 34:00
  After changing his position on the timing of the rapture, he authored the Wrath trilogy, these action-packed fictional novels follow one family through the tribulation period, The Rapture, The 1000 Year Reign of Christ, and the Beginning of Eternity.
• 34:16
  It's been well received with already more than 3,000 copies, 30,000 copies in circulation.
• 34:22
  DR, welcome back.
• 34:23
  You know, right before the show, we were talking about you're giving sort of a little bit of an overview of what each part, each one of the three books is about.
• 34:32
  Which part, which book was your favorite one.
• 34:36
  That's easy.
• 34:37
  So the second one, Wrath left behind, just because it was uh, as I said earlier, probably the closest thing to a Jason Bourne movie that I could create as a writer.
• 34:45
  A lot of action, pretty graphic.
• 34:48
  And it was easy to write because the script was just the book of Revelation, right?
• 34:53
  The the it tells you it tells us exactly what's going to happen during the Trumpet and Bull Judgments, which is which represent God's wrath.
• 35:00
  So I actually had an outline to follow, which I really didn't so much in the first book and the third book.
• 35:05
  Um, and so yeah, the uh the second book is I think the second book would, if any of them were ever made into a movie, the second book would be awesome to see as a movie.
• 35:14
  It's pretty intense.
• 35:15
  So you know, the third book, when you when you go through the judgment seat of Christ and the people that come up and you write like a story about somebody, what their life was like, like uh one guy was uh good Catholic and he couldn't understand what you know what the judgment was all about, then other people about how they got rewards and how they felt like they wasted their life, and other people that thought they really hadn't done anything, but they'd done magnificent things for the kingdom.
• 35:41
  I found those stories very interesting and very compelling.
• 35:46
  And the judgment scenes really um, I mean, I would have I had chills when I was reading some of the ways that you described some of the judgments of um of the lake of fire and things like that.
• 35:58
  I think part three would be a fantastic movement to really show people listen, people, you need to get serious about the gospel of Jesus Christ and understand you could live to be 120 years old on this planet, but eternity is a really long dime, you know, and I just think it was really, really good.
• 36:18
  So I think all three of them were really good.
• 36:20
  The first story, um, you could just the first book, you could just feel the conflict in that family that you know they um had a one person in their family that wasn't a believer.
• 36:31
  You could just feel the conflict of what that was all about and what they went through.
• 36:36
  So I I just think all three of them were, you know, and I don't read much fiction, you know.
• 36:39
  I spend most of my time reading nonfiction, but these were really, really compelling and great stories.
• 36:46
  They really were.
• 36:47
  And you mentioned that you do a lot on social media.
• 36:50
  How has your posts been uh how have they been accepted on social media?
• 36:55
  So it's been pretty rough.
• 36:57
  Um so a lot of folks in the pre-trib camp.
• 37:02
  Remember, I used to be a zealot for the pre-trib rapture theory.
• 37:05
  I mean, I was Mr.
• 37:06
  Pre-trib.
• 37:08
  Um, a lot of them just get angry.
• 37:11
  You know, and remember when I'm doing these postings, generally, I'm I'm posting scripture.
• 37:15
  I'm not just saying, well, I think this and I think that.
• 37:17
  I'm like, let's read Revelation six together.
• 37:21
  Let's, you know, read Matthew 24, different parts of it.
• 37:24
  So I'm quoting scripture and showing how it's not possible for the rapture to be pre-tribulational.
• 37:30
  Um, people get really angry.
• 37:32
  I mean, there's just there's just some name calling that goes on.
• 37:37
  I mean, I I just when I say you have to have a thick skin to be in this game, you have to have a thick skin because I have been called everything you can imagine, you know, tool of Satan, false prophet.
• 37:46
  I mean, it's wild.
• 37:48
  And so that part of it has been pretty depressing.
• 37:51
  Because I'm like, you know, this is a public forum.
• 37:53
  There could be non-Christians in here reading what you're posting.
• 37:57
  And when they see that kind of vitriol being poured out on another Christian, they're probably thinking, you know, maybe I'll go check out Buddhism or something else, because these Christians are kind of mean.
• 38:06
  You know, so it that part makes me sad.
• 38:09
  Um, there's not a lot of Bereans out there, and so the Apostle Paul commended the Bereans because in in they were in modern day Greece today.
• 38:18
  But he the the reason he commended the Brians is because he said they were more fair-minded than the the folks in Thessalonica.
• 38:25
  When I would tell them something, they wouldn't say, Oh, Paul, that's great.
• 38:28
  I agree with you.
• 38:29
  Or they wouldn't say, I disagree with you.
• 38:31
  They'd say, you know what?
• 38:32
  That's interesting, Paul.
• 38:33
  We're gonna go back and search the scriptures daily to find out if what you're saying to us is true.
• 38:39
  And I had I guess I had hoped I'd run into more Bereans.
• 38:42
  I mean, I was a Burean myself when I ran into this book by Marvin Rosenthal, and I said, you know, I don't know if I agree or disagree with that, but I'm sure gonna check it out.
• 38:50
  And I had hoped that there would be more Berean Christians in America who would say, Well, that's interesting.
• 38:55
  I've never heard of the pre-Wrath Rapture theory.
• 38:58
  I think I'll dig into that and see if it's true.
• 39:00
  Instead, I get a lot of name calling.
• 39:02
  Now, having said that, there are a smaller percent, let's call it 20%, who respond exactly the way I would hope.
• 39:09
  They'll say things like, oh, well, I've never kind of been exposed to that thinking before.
• 39:15
  Let me go back and dig into that, or I'm gonna buy that book and see if it's true.
• 39:19
  And um, so the reason I stay in this game, and I consider myself a missionary to the church, by the way.
• 39:25
  I'm I'm my goal is to wake up the bride of Christ to the true end times chronology so that they're prepared.
• 39:30
  This is a preparedness issue.
• 39:32
  And so I stay in this, even though I'm insulted weekly, daily, um, because a small percentage are Bareans, and a small percent are digging into this and discovering and having the same kind of epiphany that I had.
• 39:46
  And wow, this is actually true.
• 39:48
  So it's worth it for that small percent, you know.
• 39:51
  Um Jesus was not into big crowds.
• 39:53
  Uh, Jesus routinely turned big crowds into small crowds, so I don't measure my success by, oh my gosh, I haven't sold.
• 40:00
  10 million copies yet, I must be a failure.
• 40:02
  Um, big crowds would follow Jesus, and then he would give them a hard saying, and then the crowd would shrink.
• 40:07
  And that's the opposite of churches today.
• 40:09
  Churches just want to grow bigger and have multiple campuses, and that's not me.
• 40:12
  I'm like, if if only 10%, if I can influence just 10% and get them to kind of be prepared for what's coming so that this end time stuff doesn't hit them like a freight train, totally worth it to me.
• 40:24
  I'll take the insults from the other 90, no problem.
• 40:26
  I've got I got three.
• 40:28
  Anyone with kids has a thick skin for sure.
• 40:33
  So it's so important for Christians to have a really accurate understanding.
• 40:37
  And I think that um my experience with some of my friends are either you're a pre-trib rapture rapture person, or you really don't believe in the tribut in there in the rapture at all.
• 40:47
  I mean, it's just like that's just a bunch of nonsense.
• 40:49
  We're just gonna all go through all of this stuff, and then we're gonna die and we're gonna go to the final judgment.
• 40:55
  And I know that you know, I'm saved through Jesus, and so you know, this other stuff it's irrelevant.
• 41:00
  Why do you think it's so important for people to really have an accurate understanding of the end times?
• 41:06
  Hugely important question.
• 41:08
  And the short answer is the calendar.
• 41:11
  If it was 1826 instead of 2026, this would just be academic.
• 41:17
  I mean, we wouldn't be doing a podcast in 1826, but maybe we'd be talking and we'd be like, Oh, this revelation stuff is kind of interesting, these flying scorpion things, demons, wow.
• 41:26
  Wouldn't apply to us because we're not in that time period.
• 41:29
  So the short answer, it's so important because I believe, um, and most Christians do as well, that we're living in that end time.
• 41:37
  Like it applies to us now.
• 41:38
  It didn't apply directly in 1826, honestly.
• 41:42
  It does apply in 2026.
• 41:44
  So that's the short answer.
• 41:45
  The long answer is we know from scripture that during this period of time, this seven-year period, um, there will be a great falling away from the faith.
• 41:55
  Jesus talked about this in his parable of the 10 virgins.
• 41:59
  Of the 10 virgins, five were wise, five were foolish.
• 42:01
  The foolish ones don't go to heaven, they fall away.
• 42:04
  So we know that there's going to be this huge falling away.
• 42:07
  And I believe that will happen, by the way, at the midpoint.
• 42:09
  You know, when the antichrist goes in the temple, says, I'm God, take my mark.
• 42:12
  Oh, you can't buy and sell unless you take my mark on your right-handed forehead.
• 42:16
  That's when things get really rough.
• 42:17
  That starts the great tribulation, right?
• 42:19
  That second half.
• 42:21
  Um, there's going to be a great falling away.
• 42:23
  We know that.
• 42:23
  And so, why is it important?
• 42:25
  The long answer is you don't want to be part of that group that falls away.
• 42:29
  And I believe that there is there are two groups primarily that will be composed of that group that falls away, kind of the five foolish version virgins.
• 42:36
  One group are kind of Christians who attend churches that don't teach anything about the end times.
• 42:43
  And that's a lot of churches.
• 42:45
  Um, I've had two corporate reloads in my life.
• 42:47
  One took me from California to Ohio, and then another company um did a corporate reload and moved me to Texas.
• 42:53
  So on two occasions, my wife and I had to church shop, right?
• 42:56
  We had to attend dozens of churches, try to find a good church.
• 42:59
  Again, this is exactly what we found.
• 43:01
  Most churches don't say a peep about the end times.
• 43:04
  They just don't teach on it.
• 43:05
  So you have one group of Christians who are completely uninformed.
• 43:08
  They're going to be hit like a freight train when all this stuff happens.
• 43:11
  The second group is the group I fell in, where I attended churches that did teach, but they taught a false eschatology of escapism, that we're we're going to just be whisked away in a secret rapture and no eye will see him, and and we won't have to endure deception, war, famine, pestilence, martyrdom.
• 43:27
  That group is equally at risk.
• 43:29
  In either case, when this stuff starts happening, like, oh, they've restarted the twice daily sacrifices.
• 43:36
  Oh, there's these two witnesses that just showed up in Jerusalem.
• 43:39
  You know, when things start to unfold, these two groups are going to be hit like a freight train.
• 43:43
  And I believe that it's that those two groups who are completely ignorant, maybe on purpose, because I've met Christians or like, I don't want to hear any of this.
• 43:51
  Don't tell me any of it, TR.
• 43:53
  I don't want da la la, you know, it'll it'll all just play out how it plays out.
• 43:57
  So, but these two groups are going to be at great risk for being part of that 50% that falls away.
• 44:02
  And so that's my mission is as a missionary to the church is to try to reach that group who is completely unprepared for what's coming and at risk, real risk.
• 44:12
  That's why it's important to understand we're living in that time, and there's a great number who will fall away.
• 44:18
  You don't want to be part of that group that does not endure to the end.
• 44:22
  Why do you think it is that the churches have don't teach eschatology at all?
• 44:27
  I don't even think that most of the time churches even teach the gospel anymore.
• 44:31
  I'm not sure they don't.
• 44:32
  Yeah.
• 44:33
  Well, well, number one, the Bible told us this would be true.
• 44:35
  It said in the last days, people won't endure sound doctrine.
• 44:38
  They won't.
• 44:39
  And so when you have big churches with thousands of people, they're teaching a false gospel of prosperity gospel, or you know, these that so Jesus said, Look, and in the last days, teachers who are churches who are teaching sound doctrine are going to be small.
• 44:54
  Churches who are teaching false doctrine or or or you know, prosperity gospel or these false ideas will be full of people.
• 45:01
  And so part of it is the Bible told us it would be this way.
• 45:04
  Um, and so another reason that churches won't teach on this is I call it nickels and noses.
• 45:09
  It's controversial, and they're worried.
• 45:11
  Well, if I take this position, well, half of my congregation will agree, half will disagree, and my church might shrink and I might lose my position.
• 45:20
  And I mean, Marvin Rosenthal, um, when he changed his position on the timing of the rapture, he was kicked out of of his ministry.
• 45:29
  They said, Well, you can't, you have to believe in the pre-trib rapture as though it's a condition of salvation.
• 45:33
  You have to believe in the pre-trib rapture, you can't run this ministry anymore.
• 45:37
  In all these social media posts, I've gotten responses from people saying I got kicked out of a small group Bible study by not agreeing with the pre-trib rapture.
• 45:45
  I got kicked out of Sunday school.
• 45:46
  I mean, this stuff is real.
• 45:47
  There is a it's there is a maybe fight is too strong a word, but if you're someone like me who who goes against this orthodoxy of this machine, if you will, of pre-trib rapture, rapture, you you there's a price to pay.
• 46:03
  And and pastors are like, nope, I don't want that controversy.
• 46:06
  I don't want my congregation to shrink.
• 46:08
  I'm not going there.
• 46:09
  I had a pastor at two churches ago here in Dallas, he'd been in the pulpit for 20 years here locally, and never taught end times ever.
• 46:17
  And he was a great expositional teacher.
• 46:19
  Oh my god, love when he would teach on stuff, it was like, wow, that's so insightful, but never taught on the end times.
• 46:25
  Finally, someone must have brought it up because he commented on it in church one time.
• 46:28
  And you know what he said to the congregation?
• 46:30
  He said, Well, you know, the reason I don't teach on that is I just don't think I'm mature enough yet.
• 46:36
  20 years in the pulpit, and he's not mature enough to teach something that a 10-year-old can understand as it relates to, for example, the timing of the rapture, it's like that's a cop out, right?
• 46:46
  Um, so yeah, it's a variety of reasons.
• 46:48
  But Nicholson knows is people don't want controversy, they want to grow their church, they want to have six campuses.
• 46:54
  And if they start getting into taking a side on some of this stuff, they're worried that people will leave.
• 46:59
  And they will, by the way.
• 47:00
  People don't want to hear hard messages.
• 47:02
  I never heard that expression before, Nicholson noses, but I wrote it down because I like that.
• 47:06
  I like that I'm gonna use that.
• 47:08
  That's good.
• 47:09
  Because I think you're right.
• 47:10
  And you in your first book of your of your trilogy of wrath, your first book, um, you know, the the things were happening, and um, that the end times looked like it was happening, you know, the the antichrist showed up and the people in this what seemed to be like a mega church went to the church and really attacked the pastor.
• 47:30
  And I thought that what the way that you wrote that, and you know, he actually asked them to forgive him, and you know, I'm wrong, I was wrong for not doing this, was such an important message to the church.
• 47:42
  You know, the if you're not gonna do this because you don't feel like you're mature enough, or I don't know enough about it, or I don't want to teach it wrong, or whatever excuse that you want to make, you know, what the Bible says, woe be to the teacher because you are held more accountable for things like absolutely to get your books and the the this pre-wrath rapture in front of many pastors to show them from a biblical perspective what it is and why they need to be teaching it.
• 48:11
  Like, so the the question is like, is there a strategy for that?
• 48:15
  No, have you been able to be in touch with like have you spoken at conferences like Pastor?
• 48:20
  I've I've I um interestingly enough, um I collected email addresses on my own for like it must have been 200 plus pastors, and I sent them a kind of uh an email message that documented some of the stuff to try to get them thinking.
• 48:40
  And uh again, it was more than 200.
• 48:43
  And of those 200, one pastor um said, Wow, that's really interesting.
• 48:49
  Could you send me a copy of that book, the pre-wrath rapture of the church?
• 48:52
  I said, Of course, give me your address, I'll pay for it, I'll send it to you right now.
• 48:56
  One so again, pastors.
• 48:59
  I mean, you put yourself in the shoes of a pastor who's been who has been teaching on the end times and for let's say 25 years has been teaching a pre-tribulational rapture theory.
• 49:09
  Can you imagine?
• 49:10
  And Rosenthal talks about this when when he came to this new understanding, this correct understanding of end times chronology.
• 49:17
  He shared it with a lot of the people in his ministry, and most of them privately said to him, you know what, Marvin, I think you're right.
• 49:24
  I agree.
• 49:25
  But they also said, and it's in his book.
• 49:28
  They said, We I can't go public with this because this is gonna jeopardize my position with this ministry.
• 49:34
  Uh, in other words, I'm gonna get in big trouble.
• 49:36
  And so the same thing is true for many of these pastors.
• 49:38
  I think some of them inherently know the weaknesses in this in the argument, biblical argument.
• 49:43
  Um, but they're like, you know what?
• 49:45
  I've I've had this church for 25 years.
• 49:47
  Do I want to throw everything up in the air?
• 49:49
  And the answer is they should, because truth matters more than how big your congregation is, and they will be held to a higher standard than the rest of us who are lay people, right?
• 49:58
  The Bible clearly says.
• 50:00
  Says that.
• 50:00
  And so I would be terrified if I was a pastor teaching a pre-trib rapture and I dug into this and discovered, oh boy, I think I've been wrong for 25 years.
• 50:11
  I would say to my spouse, I'd say, you know what, we may lose everything here, but it's worth it for the truth.
• 50:16
  And I would tell the truth.
• 50:17
  And God would honor that, but most won't.
• 50:19
  And not only would God honor it, but the people, most of the people sitting in front of you, people, you know, particularly if they are Christian or at least they claim to be Christian, you know, take would take it sincerely when you say, listen, I've been doing this for 25 years, and I have new fun, no new information.
• 50:36
  And I realized I was wrong, and we need to clean this up.
• 50:40
  I mean, the ears would open and they would hear differently.
• 50:43
  And those that didn't hear it, you know, that woe be unto them for not heeding the important lesson.
• 50:49
  I think that people they want to hear the truth, even if it if you have to admit that you were wrong.
• 50:55
  Sadly, I think most people aren't willing to admit they're wrong.
• 50:58
  And that's probably more to the truth, also.
• 51:00
  It's a pride issue.
• 51:02
  Yeah.
• 51:02
  Yeah.
• 51:02
  Yeah.
• 51:03
  You got to swallow your pride and say, Wow, I was I was 100% wrong, and now I'm gonna tell the truth.
• 51:08
  Yeah, it's hard to do.
• 51:10
  It's hard to do for anyone.
• 51:11
  When you went for what what is the main take home message that you want, because um it and I'm gonna say this to the audience, you really have to read all three of these books.
• 51:21
  I mean, reading each one of them is is good and of itself, and it's they're all standalone, but the whole message is the summary of the three books of this series.
• 51:33
  What were you really hoping that people would remember from from reading this whole series?
• 51:40
  So, you know, the saying, if you don't remember anything else, remember this.
• 51:43
  Well, I hope I hope folks remember.
• 51:45
  Well, you can always replay this if you forget.
• 51:48
  But there is there is one uh message that I want folks to take away, and I'm borrowing it from a pastor friend of mine in New York named uh Alan Weaver, because he wrote this down recently and I told him I'm gonna steal that from you because it's really good.
• 52:02
  So the the one thing I want people to remember is a your particular understanding of end times chronology is not a salvation issue, but it is a preparation issue.
• 52:14
  Um, our entrance into heaven is not going to be predicated on our view of the timing of the rapture.
• 52:20
  Sorry, even though a lot of pre-trib rapture folks, especially leaders will say that someone like me is actually not going to heaven because I don't agree with them.
• 52:28
  So that's false.
• 52:29
  I mean, it's not about salvation, it is about preparation.
• 52:32
  Um, if you don't believe you're going to be subject to anything bad, and this is an American construct because bad things happen in other countries like North Korea, China, but this is an American Christian perspective.
• 52:42
  Oh, nothing ever bad has happened in 250 years, therefore it won't in the future.
• 52:46
  But if you if you don't believe you'll ever have anything tough that you'll have to face, you're not going to be prepared at all.
• 52:52
  It's going to hit you like a freight train.
• 52:54
  And many of those will fall away.
• 52:56
  Here's what's interesting.
• 52:57
  Some people in these posts will say, Well, you say we should be prepared, but there's there's no preparation.
• 53:02
  Jesus never told us to prepare.
• 53:04
  Oh, yes, he did in Matthew 24, with which is the most famous dissertation on the end times in verses 45 and 46.
• 53:13
  And I miss this.
• 53:14
  I give credit to Nelson Walters and his YouTube channel for finding this.
• 53:18
  He found this.
• 53:19
  I didn't.
• 53:20
  Jesus tells us, um, and I'll quote it 45 and 46.
• 53:24
  Jesus, after he says there's famines, war, all this terrible stuff coming, Jesus asks the rhetorical question, who then is a faithful and wise servant who his master made ruler over his household to give them food in due season.
• 53:39
  Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.
• 53:45
  So I read this, these two verses a hundred times, and I'm like, who's the faithful wise servant who was made ruler over his household who gave food in due season?
• 53:55
  Of course, it's Joseph.
• 53:57
  It's Joseph from the old testament.
• 53:59
  He was the servant, he was put in charge and he stored up food and provided it when the famine came.
• 54:05
  It's the most logical thing in the history of Christianity.
• 54:08
  Jesus tells us, oh, by the way, you know, if if the two of you are alive during this time period, there's a famine coming.
• 54:15
  And not only that, at the midpoint of this seven-year period, the only way you can buy food is to take this mark of the Antichrist.
• 54:22
  And you certainly don't want to do that.
• 54:24
  So he says the most logical thing he can tell us.
• 54:26
  Store food like Joseph did, so that you're prepared.
• 54:29
  So it is a preparedness issue.
• 54:31
  And if you don't think you're gonna have to be subject to any of this stuff, you're not gonna prepare, and you're gonna be hit like a freight train and it's gonna be rough.
• 54:39
  And when your kids are starving to death in front of you, and you've done nothing to prepare.
• 54:44
  And can you imagine the pressure on a young parent?
• 54:46
  Like God will understand.
• 54:49
  I mean, God doesn't want my kids to starve to death.
• 54:51
  If I take this mark, he'll he'll forgive me because he doesn't want my kids to starve.
• 54:54
  I mean, you can see that pressure, you can see why so many will fall away.
• 54:58
  When in fact, Jesus gave us instructions on how to prepare.
• 55:01
  So the closing thought is this is not a salvation issue.
• 55:04
  You're not gonna be denied entrance to heaven because of your particular opinion about the timing of the rapture, even though some people feel that way.
• 55:12
  It is, however, a preparation issue.
• 55:15
  There are specific things we should be doing to prepare right now.
• 55:19
  And I would encourage everyone to give that some serious thought.
• 55:23
  Oh, amen to that.
• 55:24
  And what a what a great way to promote your book and to say a book series, you have the whole trilogy, the whole wrath trilogy that you can get in print, you can get an ebook, you can get on audible, so you can listen to all of it.
• 55:36
  Um, it's it's really the guy, the people who did the audible series who did a pretty good job of changing voices to these represent the different people in the storyline and things like that.
• 55:47
  So it was really, really good.
• 55:48
  And I learned a lot, and I really am um I you know, because someone had told me a long time ago, I I don't know if it's there's a pre-trib rapture or a mid-trib rapture or whatever it is, but all I know is somebody's right.
• 56:01
  And so I really haven't given much of thought to that.
• 56:05
  But what you're talking about in the the uh support to the what you put into this book, this series about the pre-wrath rapture and how you say once you see it, you can't ever unsee it.
• 56:15
  Absolutely spot on.
• 56:17
  So DR wrote thank you so much for being with us here today.
• 56:21
  Thank you for your series.
• 56:22
  Thank you for your work.
• 56:23
  Thank you for being a good and faithful servant servant and enduring to the end by putting up with all the things to get this book out here.
• 56:30
  So I want to say to everybody, thank you for joining us here today.
• 56:33
  Um, you know, I always close out my podcast with Romans 12 12, which is rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble, be persistent in prayer, and also be prepared for the end.
• 56:44
  So I want to thank you.
• 56:45
  We'll see everybody here.
• 56:46
  Have a great rest of your day.
• 56:48
  Uh, we'll see you here tomorrow or the next time on the 10 penny files.
• 56:52
  Goodbye, everybody, and God bless.