Latest / TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast / 91: Redefining NFTs with Akaswap's Jinyao Lin

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91: Redefining NFTs with Akaswap's Jinyao Lin · TezTalks Radio - Tezos Ecosystem Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Testworks Radio.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I am Marisa Tru, and today I am joined with Jinyao Lin, the co-founder of Akaswap, an intuitive, user-friendly green NFT trading platform that enables users to easily create, collect and trade NFTs.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: So welcome Jinyao.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: How are you today?
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hi, I'm good.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you for inviting me to the program and I'm happy to talk to you about how we are doing in Taiwan and, of course, the archive swap and, of course, our background and our future.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to have you on the show, so first I want to start off with your personal journey.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: So how did you come to discover the world of blockchain and Web3?
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, I have a few friends.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: They go to the blockchain world first and they start to create their works in the foundation or we have a here and now platform before, so they start to do this first.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: And then some of the friends told me that it's very good to develop the digital artworks in the blockchain because it can make us to explore more potential collectors to collect our piece.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: So I think it's very interesting because we are doing digital art for a long time but it's still not so easy to find a huge amount of collectors in the market.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: But by the blockchain and also the TESOL foundation, that's what we found that more and more digital artists they start to to announce, to publish their works on the TESOLs.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: And we found, okay, it's quite amazing and we really see the future that how artists can really make the connection to the collector, each other.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: So this is how we start.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: So I start to first I start to publish my piece at FXH and also to, but meanwhile we have a plan to think about.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: We need to have a really marketplace focused on the digital art.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: So we start to plan to build the archive swap.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, this is how we start.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: So you started by minting your works on FXHash after you found out how diverse the art community was on Tezos.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: But what motivated you to create AquaSwap?
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: You know, what was the thing that was missing from other marketplaces that you thought AquaSwap could solve for?
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, I think the community is very important and I found that all these communities running in behind, like FH is mostly in Europe and here and now happens in South America, but of course they have a widely worldwide user, but they still have a real communication in the local area.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: So I think for Asia, and how to make all these artists get together and to have a really warm place, I think it's very important for us.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: So we think, okay, it's a very good idea to start from Asia, that we can create a marketplace locally and support.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Of course, we have a language which is support.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: In the beginning, we start to support like Korean, japanese, taiwanese and Indonesia, and of course, english is the basic.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: So we start to.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: We think it's very important to have a localized marketplace for each market.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So that's how we start to build.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: So essentially even though I guess the blockchain web3 universe was non-stop it meant that, like the marketplaces were only really serving time zones, that didn't really service asia.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: So akaswap was going to service the asia time zone and basically build the crypto art community within this region specifically.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, I think it's a very the thing happened.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Very interesting is because actually, the blockchain is the technique start and it's still very young, so actually there are still a lot of techniques that need to be developed and to be customized.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: So I think the two because, for example, if you want to do a lot of campaigns and we are using the campaign to use a lot of blockchain functionality, but the developer community is not localized, then you have a very difficult to develop the application.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: So I think work with a local artist and to tightly work with them and to develop the functionality is very important.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Then that makes us very special, that we can develop a really good application for them.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: So I think that's very wonderful because we talk to many artists and also like to talk to TCAPEC.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: They also have some need that we can help them to develop very unique function, and I think that's because we are very close living in Asia and we are very easy to communicate Otherwise, of course, but you can still talk to play somewhere else in very far away, but it's not so easy to work together.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: I think so.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: So that's why we think it's very nice to have a local marketplace like Akasua.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: And, as you mentioned, I think what people often overlook is that you can keep a closer relationship with the very people who use the platform so you can actually develop it in a the very people who use the platform, so you can actually develop it in a way that continues to serve their needs, without having to sort of, I guess, speculate what everyone else is doing within the space and how you can adopt the same features.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: It's very much.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: What do artists need?
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: How can we support and what resources do we have?
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: For example, you mentioned TZAPAC in order to make that a reality.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: So I know Akerswap was one of the Fortify Labs cohorts, so what was actually the experience like of working with TZAPAC?
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I think TZAPAC is very, very helpful to us because they have very good connection and with their help that we are able to reach many collectors and investors to us.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: So it's very important and of course, they have a very nice network and they know how the market's going and what kind of function they need right now.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a result with them it very joyful, and then for our engineer, we can also know how the market is thinking and which kind of functionality we should develop right now.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, so while you have a close relationship with regional artists, basically using channels like TZAPAC meant that you could amplify those artists' work onto a global stage through what resources TZAPAC could provide.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: You also said in terms of the incorporation of new features.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: What's next on the roadmap in terms of how is Akerswap developing products and features are you planning on implementing?
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, actually we have already implemented a lot of interesting functions.
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Like we've seen, the artists, all the campaigns they want to have some tools to help them to promote their activities.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: So, like in Akaswap, you can.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: The basic function is like you can have a gacha.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: Gacha means that you can make a lucky draw of the tokens, and we also have like an ocean, which is very basic.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: But at this moment we are also trying to help people to much easier to get into the NFT market.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: We have like a AkaDrop.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Akadrop is a functionality that, for example, if you want to give your token to those people, they never using the blockchain and they just need to have their email address and with the email address, they can turn into a wallet and they can collect easily.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Then they even don't need any money in their wallet and they can start into a wallet and they can collect easily.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Then they even don't need any money in their wallet and they can start collecting things.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: So this is a kind of reverse the relationship, that it means that I just want to give you some token and that you don't need to do it.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: You just need an email to receive.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: But in the future, if you want to go to the NFT market.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Of course you can do more, but we give you full authority that you can use.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You can transfer, you can send this token to other people, and I think that's a very important way for the novice people.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: They can come to the NFT market or the Web3 market very easily.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: So it's basically smoothing out the initial user experience when it comes to interacting with things like digital art and, I guess, in some respect, gaming as well, in terms of providing gachas and that component as well.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: So different components.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: That's a very important thing because for the gacha, you know, there's a lot of people, because for the people, they're holding the activities but they can cheat because it's a gacha, it's a game, so it's very easy to cheat.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But how we are doing is trying to use the blockchain to make the gacha much more fair.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: It would be very fair because everything you can see on the blockchain and there's nothing to cheat.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: So I think it's very convincing for people to believe okay, it's a fair game.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: That's using the gacha system in the game system.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: And now we are also developing some very exciting.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I can tell you that we are trying to do a new feature.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: It's VOTE.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Vote is also a new product.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: We are doing that.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: We allow those people able to vote, but we also have some algorithm to hide before the result can be revealed.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: But everything is happening on the blockchain, so you can verify afterwards, after the vote ends, and you can verify everything and there's nothing can cheat on the Web3.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: So we are now also developing this kind of tool and we think that these are very essential function if you want to activities or want to hit a whole campaign, and with this kind of a tool, we make the people feel, okay, it's a very fair game and you can read this and try to enjoy the campaign very much.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we have the gacha system and the vote system, and I think what I'm still sort of thinking about the gacha system and how it leads to better onboarding, and I think what's great is that it's a very familiar dynamic, at least within gaming.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: So then applying it to the NFT space, it doesn't feel that different.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: But I think with voting, it can be a new experience because you don't really understand the voting system you're participating in.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: So is that more for people who are, I guess, a bit more experienced with the platform, or how do you encourage people to learn how to engage in voting?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what we want to do is to convince people that, of course, all the data will be online and we have some new algorithm that can prove that it's very safe and very convenient for people.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Of course, because we are verifying the data and all the results were encrypted and we can prove that it's very safe, that even you vote, people only know the result, but they don't know who is doing the vote, so we keep the people very safe.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's very interesting and we also published a paper to the conference to make people believe okay, it's very strong in the algorithm we are developing.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: So, by this kind of procedure, we hope people they can challenge us that, okay, what we can do in the future about the vote and we really believe in the future voting system is very important because, for example, in this time, the vote in the US or someplace people believe that, okay, some people will cheat in the vote, but with all this kind of data brought to the Web3, and everyone can verify by the algorithm, I think it's a very nice experience For people to think about.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, we can start using the vault In the Web3 world.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily about Just binding it to the NFT platform, but ArcaSwap is really diversifying the product so that its utility is actually much greater and it can be applied to other Web3 functionalities as well.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I think the token or the NFT is only the foundation.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: But with this kind of foundation, you need to start to think about how you are going to use this token, because the usage is the only way to make it useful.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: So this is how we think that we are not only developing the NFT market, but we also need to think about, okay, how we can really use the token well and to make people believe it's worth to invest their money or their time into this kind of world, the Web3 world.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So it's understanding how to engineer the utility, and I like the idea that you know, the NFT marketplace is just the gateway, but there's so many other things that need to be developed for a platform like Akerswap to be truly powerful and have the impact that it wants to create.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: But then, if we were to look at the art space again as sort of the starting point, how has that evolved ever since more of this technology has become available?
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, you mean from the ArcadSwap.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: I think ArcadSwap is still the marketplace for digital art piece, so there are still many people developing the tools.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: But we are also facing that people not too many people know about Web3 and we still need more and more.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: We want to make people believe okay, what we are doing is very useful, it's very worthy that you can come.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: But meanwhile we still keep doing the digital art developing because it's our career that we are digital artists, so we never stop to developing our piece.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: But I think this is like a true kind of mission that we want to bring the the many digital artists to the marketplace and to keep published their works on akasua.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: But we also want the more people they come to the place to know, okay, it's not only for art, but it can be also used in many ways.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, so I don't want to glaze over the details of your background, which is why art is such a powerful component in your work, which is that, if I'm not wrong and correct me if I am, I learned that you hold a bachelor's and a master's degree in music and new media, as well as a PhD in computer science.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: So you do have this blend of art and technology, which is pretty much everything that's celebrated in web.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So I understand why there is always this creative core in what you're doing, in terms of the passion of what you're building, but in terms of understanding, the functionality is what's sort of leading you to break outward and expand.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: But one important question is when you began building this platform, what was it that was unique about Tezos that made you want to build there?
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, of course, the beginning is the stuff from here and now.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: There are many artists that come to the TESOL and then, by comparing to the Ethereum, that's because the gas fee and the transaction is too high and which is not very good for the artist to create because, you know, there are many levels of artists and, of course, there are some artists that are very nice, very expensive, so it's very suitable for them to use in the East Union.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: But in the art descent there are still many young artists and they need to go to the market.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: But if the gas fee or the transaction fee is too high, which is not good for them because the collector they don't want to spend too much gas fee in collecting the piece because it's depending on the value of the piece.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So we really think that to reduce the barrier of the marketplace, which Tezos is very nice at this moment, we really think that to reduce the barrier of the marketplace, which Tezos is very nice at this moment, because there's a lot of community already here and like from here and now and like the OBJKT and the FXH, there are so many artists coming to the Tezos and the guest fee is very friendly to all the users and I think that's the most important factor that people start.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: We should still keep developing the TESOS in this area, because this is the community and the gas fee, which is very, very nice for the community.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: So not only did the community or the art community already exist and I think you mentioned Hickett, nunk or here Now, objects and FXHash, so there was already this sort of active ecosystem of creatives that you could bring Asia-based artists into and be sort of that connecting bridge, but also it was just a friendlier environment to start, because it wasn't expensive to access and it would empower artists to actually start without feeling like they were being priced out from the beginning.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Is that right?
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's correct.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: And, by the way, they're now also developing the Etherlink.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: That's in the future.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: Not in the future, but using the Etherlink it's very easy to connect the TESOS to the Etherium, which also makes a nice bridge to them.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: So I think we're looking forward to the Etherlink, which can bring more, because there are already a lot of assets in the Tezos network.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: By the Ethereum Etherlink, we can bring this token in exchange to Ethereum, which is a very nice idea, to this.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: So how do you think you will adapt Akerswap for something like Etherlink so that you can potentially attract Ethereum artists over to Tezos or to give greater exposure to the Tezos-based artists to a wider community of crypto users?
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: I think we're not, of course, developing this kind of Etherlink and we want in the future that people can have more freedom if they want to exchange their token to the Etherlink and in the Etherlink they want to exchange to Ethereum.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: That's possible.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: So I think the Etherlink we are going to keep more.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I think we are providing more choice for the user and the user.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: They can choose wherever they want to stay.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: They can still keep staying in TESOL, they can stay in EtherLink if they want in the future.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I think it's a very, very fascinating ecosystem because actually they can start to use the taser and when they have more collectors, they can start to bring their piece to Etherlink and then to Ethereum, which is like a different level of artists that can do.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So it's basically about giving the users the choice rather than forcing them into sort of these siloed environments, and it just makes it an open and freer space to interact with?
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that, all being said, has developing Akerswap and this is from the point of view of artists and the art community?
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Has developing Akerswap given you new insights into how the crypto art world operates, or is this like?
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: What are the main things that you've learned about interacting with this space?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: okay.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I think it's a very to find the support from the community and with the support of the community, that makes the artists they can keep developing their piece in this place.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So I think it's very important that for like this time in Asia, we have a new exhibition.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: It's called Dialogue.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: It's a combined artist from Japan, taiwan, mainland China and Korea.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: So there will be totally like 40 artists, digital artists, and we have an exhibition in the full place, in the full city.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So now the exhibition happened in Korea right now and it just finished last two weeks in Taipei.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So I think it's very important that the artists they get together into the community and when they get together to publish their work and they are more collected, they see, okay, like the digital art or the generative art is so important in the future and which make the collector they have more intention to collect the digital art.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: I think it's a very nice circle for the ecosystem.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of seeing its fusion into almost the traditional art world and sort of seeing that momentum take off and like how there is a bridge that exists between and that, at least kind of in the same way that, you know, teslos is using etholink to bridge into the ethereum ecosystem there is this bridge between the digital art world, the generative art world and the traditional media space, which means that kind of everyone benefits because it doesn't keep people confined into specific environments, which I agree with with you, I think is wonderful.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: We're coming up to the end of the year now, so what are Akaswap's plans for 2025?
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Okay first, of course, we are going to develop more functionality in the Etherlink and those functions like the AkasiveDrop, and we are now doing the ArchiveVault and we are now also developing some functions.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: So in the 2025, I think we are bringing more functions to the users.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, we are also working with many activities right now.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: I think okay, actually now we have more co-workers with VR, virtual reality this time.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: So next year we are going to have more virtual reality products in the future that's combined with the Web3.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: So let's see how we are going to publish this new function.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: So a lot of new features, a lot of new functions, but they're all still underdeveloped, so we will see how they play out in the near future and hopefully we will see some exciting new things on Akerswap very soon.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really, if there was any final message you wanted to share with our listeners, what would it be?
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: And also, where can people find more information about Akerswap?
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: Of course, just come to the Akerswap that we always in the event that you can always see.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: That's what we are doing recently, so trying to find out this, and then we like we were also launching the, the if you can see the that we also publish our information in the archive swap.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: So by the Twitter, you can also see what we are developing soon.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: So please follow us on Twitter and subscribe us, thank you.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, jinyao.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to see how Akaswap develops, especially in the coming months with all of the new features.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: And you know, until we speak or interact again, I wish you the best of luck with all of the projects that you are currently working on.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you Okay.