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Strictly Come Hamster - Season 14 (starring Lee McMenemy & Lucy McCaul) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:00
Can't take Sarah to Gallifrey. Must get her back home.
0:06
Must reset the coordinates. South Croydon.
0:18
You're a good girl, Sarah. Oh look, it's too late.
0:21
Apologizing now. Everything's packed.
0:23
I've got to go. How did you know?
0:32
What? I've had the call from
0:35
Gallifrey. So.
0:40
So I can't take you with me. You've got to go.
0:42
Oh. Come on, I can't miss Gallifrey.
0:48
Look, I was only joking. I didn't mean it.
0:51
Hey, hey, you're not going to regenerate again, are you not?
0:56
This time I don't know what's going to happen.
1:01
You're playing one of your tricks.
1:02
I'm just trying to make me stay, no.
1:06
I've received a call and as a Time Lord I must obey.
1:12
Alone. Yes.
1:24
And I'll give you a love to Harry and the Brigadier.
1:27
Oh, and I can tell Professor Watson that you're all right.
1:29
We've. Landed Sarah what we've landed.
1:33
Where? South Croydon, Hillview Rd. to
1:38
be exact. That's my home.
1:45
Well, I'll be off then, yeah. Thanks.
2:04
Don't forget me, Sarah. Don't you forget me.
2:13
My doctor You know, travel does broaden the mind.
2:22
Yes, till we meet again Santa the.
3:03
And the one question that's on everyone's lips, the question of
3:07
the day as his supremacy leaves public life, is who will he name
3:12
as winner of Strictly Come Hamster?
3:15
Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster.
3:18
My name is Joe Ford and I'm a little bit turned on by rods.
3:22
ASMR there as he leant very close into his microphone.
3:27
My large Yeti. Indeed, I'm I'm going to start
3:30
with I wouldn't even say no to a salami sandwich.
3:37
Didn't sound anything like Tom Baker.
3:39
I'm really definitely in that line, isn't it?
3:41
Oh no, I didn't mean me. That's definitely a phone call
3:45
at 3:00 in the morning, that isn't it.
3:46
Yeah, it's not the first time he's used that voice to say.
3:49
We all know that. That'll be me at the end of this
3:51
bloody recording 4 hours later. Hello everybody, I'm going to
3:56
hand you straight over to Rod to do all the introductions because
3:59
I can't be asked to do anything else.
4:02
Good evening, Joe. How are you?
4:03
Oh. I'm fine, thank you very much.
4:06
Well, I suppose I should start by saying, in the finest
4:08
traditions of Henry Golden Jago, that it's a great honour and
4:11
privilege for me to be working with you on this devilish affair
4:15
because he's. Supposed to be Christopher
4:16
Benjamin. Well, it was.
4:18
It was a homage. We say OK, we have reached
4:22
season 14, as if anyone at home hadn't already guessed that it's
4:27
1976 and we've just had one of the longest, hottest, driest
4:31
summers ever. Water's being rationed.
4:33
People are having to queue up in the streets to get water from
4:36
taps. Inflation is nearly at its
4:38
highest since get this 1750, but who gives a damn because Doctor
4:43
Who is back on the tally. So let's get into it and to help
4:47
us sort out our Astro rectifier from our Multiquanti scope as
4:51
well as our million nuts from our Ganymede driver.
4:54
I can see Joe nodding there. He knows all about merging nuts.
4:57
We have been joined by two fresh young donors.
5:00
I mean, sorry, two blundering dolls.
5:02
Oh Nope, sorry. Two very special guests and
5:07
between us we're going to decide which story will be lifting that
5:10
the cursion glitter ball and which will be left to get cold
5:13
and wet. Hypnotized left, right and
5:15
centre, shot at Savage by bug eyed monsters and never knowing
5:19
whether it's coming, going or being.
5:21
So you do realize we're going to have to make that bloody
5:24
Likursion glitter ball by the end?
5:26
I know, I know, but it's purely conceptual.
5:30
It will be handed over. I know people are already asking
5:33
what's going to happen at the end of this, but we'll get
5:35
there. They want it over with, that's
5:36
what. So let us welcome today's guest.
5:41
We've got one returnee and one strictly virgin.
5:44
So let's start with our virgin. Set in very ominous stones
5:49
there. Hello, I'm Lee.
5:51
I'm one front of the Universal Justice dispensers that are the
5:55
Polish folks. Good evening.
5:58
I'm fam. It's like to finally be on
6:01
episode Strictly. I've polished my the cursing
6:04
glitter balls and I've squeezed myself into the tightest kicks
6:06
possible, ready to dance my way to victory tonight.
6:10
Everyone's on form tonight. Lee, did it sound like you at
6:14
the beginning of this as he was starting talking about the
6:16
years? I mean, that's how you start the
6:18
Polish box. I think you can actually sue him
6:21
for nicking your ideas. Well, you know, but I know
6:23
you've nicked most of our ideas for the gold spots for this so.
6:28
You know what, Clede? Doesn't that's out the window
6:30
now it's done, it's dusted so. As Terence said, just use a good
6:34
idea, a good original idea. It just doesn't have to be your
6:37
good original idea. We've nicked everything,
6:39
including you. Now you.
6:42
Know it'll. Take care for being touch.
6:45
And Lucy. Welcome.
6:47
Lucy. Hello.
6:51
Is that all you've got to say? It's.
6:53
Been a long day, what can I say, I'm definitely not dancing.
6:58
It's what it's great to have you back.
7:00
Oh I love. Lucy after she firmly put me in
7:04
my place in our season 18 retrospective I'm expecting.
7:07
Can I say the line please? Please do.
7:09
Sorry Lucy to embarrass you but leave.
7:13
You didn't hear it and I'm assuming you didn't.
7:15
The amount of rules you wanted from royalty.
7:16
In that group chat. He gave her a what felt like a
7:21
nine hour criticism about Ligopolis.
7:24
And then Lucy was next and she just went brilliantly.
7:29
Well, yes, given the fact that I don't actually look upon this as
7:32
to whether it's good or bad, as to whether I enjoy it or not, I
7:36
don't care about anything you just said.
7:38
Oh my God, it was glorious. I couldn't stop laughing.
7:41
And trust me, and Joe has used that comment to me pretty much
7:46
on a daily basis ever since. I don't care about what you
7:49
said. The plagiarism is real.
7:52
Anyway, before we get into the stories, I've got one question
7:55
for you all. What are your overall feelings
7:58
about the season? Let's start with Lee, right?
8:02
I have not watched season 14 in the longest time because you've
8:06
got episodes like Hand of Fear, Mask of Mandragora, Talons not
8:11
generally accepted as being like a pinnacle of Doctor Who in some
8:14
way or another. So it's not really a series of
8:17
kind of felt of need to go back and watch quite a lot.
8:20
So I'll go back and watch like under loved stories and revisit
8:23
those more often. So I've been into this fairly
8:26
reasonably fresh and apart from 2 examples, broadly positive.
8:32
Good, good, Lucy. I think there's quite a lot to
8:36
like in this season. I did.
8:38
There are some stories that are sort of definite high points for
8:41
me that I like a lot, others that I don't like quite so much.
8:45
Possibly a couple where it might be a little longer between RE
8:49
watches for them. You know, ones that you don't
8:52
feel you need to come back to so much, but generally positive.
8:56
Joe, are you going to be the villain of the piece today?
8:59
Well, I sort of stepped back from the season and realised
9:01
I've only covered two of these on a hamster or blunt pen knife.
9:05
And that's that's the least represented season of the entire
9:09
run of Doctor Who in terms of percentage.
9:13
And I think this is a very expensive, very stylish, very
9:18
well cast, mostly well written season of Doctor Who.
9:23
But three of these stories are fine, immensely dull.
9:27
And so I've got a bit of a mixed reaction to this.
9:31
After several positive episodes of Strictly, I'm sort of on the
9:34
fence with Season 14. I don't Finch Hinchcliffe got it
9:38
as right as he thinks he did. And he thinks he did, because
9:41
I've watched a lot of special features this week.
9:45
Interesting. Well, I was 10 when this came
9:47
out, so it's probably kind of the peak age fortune, this kind
9:50
of doctor. And I fucking loved it.
9:52
And I find it difficult to step away from that and put these
9:57
episodes on. And I can genuinely feel myself
10:00
back at 10 years of age watching these for the first time.
10:02
So there is so much nostalgia wound up with all of these that
10:06
it's it's very hard for me to be critical.
10:08
So I'm going to unfortunately be quite boringly positive about
10:13
pretty much all of these stories.
10:14
I would say I don't want to give too much away, but yeah, I'd,
10:17
I'd love this season. I think for years I used to say
10:19
this was my favorite season of Classico.
10:22
What's weird about this is I don't think I can put it at any
10:24
of this and say it's bad telly. It's all really quite well made.
10:28
You know, it's polished. It's as expensive as the show's
10:31
ever looked. So it all kind of came down to
10:34
just my reaction to it. It's what lands for you or not,
10:38
isn't it? Well, let's see.
10:40
Let's should we go into the overall comments from our lovely
10:43
listeners first, Lee and Lucy? Absolutely.
10:48
OK, so Loser Ray, excuse me if I mispronounce anybody's names,
10:53
says one of the best 15th century Colts.
10:55
A sad farewell. Mary Whitehouse, fuming over the
10:57
Matrix, a scantily clad companion for the dance, and
11:02
Agatha Christie, who done it with murderous robots and
11:04
rolling rat on steroids in the lungs and sewers.
11:06
Bloody love it. Matt V has been in touch to say
11:11
best and worst implies that any of the season deviates from
11:14
slightly above average. Even my favorite, The Robots of
11:17
Death, isn't actually a noteworthy story, it's just
11:19
brought to life brilliantly by the cast, director of costume,
11:22
makeup, and sets. Is that a?
11:24
Positive comment, I'm not entirely sure.
11:26
No, I would say probably not. No, he's saying production over
11:30
life. The.
11:30
Story, The best story is pretty average.
11:33
Is that what he's? Saying, I think that's what he's
11:35
saying. Well, big Orange, Michael says.
11:39
A season that exudes confidence on all sides of the camera.
11:42
It's almost unfair how much fun it is.
11:45
It's still yet to be determined how big an orange Michael
11:48
actually is, you know. That's going to run around.
11:52
It's. Becoming a running joke.
11:55
Up here, that means something very different.
11:58
It. Does if?
12:01
The man's got a ball of heart and a flute then.
12:05
Swiftly on. That's all we said in the cut
12:08
sign there, so I'll move on to the next.
12:13
We've got the beacon of positivity that is Mr. Sigh
12:15
Heart, who says it's a pretty consistent season.
12:18
Lots of very good stories with robots standing tall above them
12:22
all. Best of all time though.
12:24
Maybe if you were there in 7677, but RE watches show up more than
12:28
a few flaws. Where were ugly female
12:31
characters for a start? Yes, good point.
12:35
We've got more women on this call than you get in some of
12:38
these stories. True.
12:41
OK, so Andy Parkinson, really good season with no stinkers.
12:44
We say goodbye to a beloved companion and hello to another
12:47
great one. It's not the best Tom season,
12:49
but it's a very strong one. OK, John Arnold says they still
12:52
really have any depth beyond pump thrills.
12:55
Some of it is dated badly, but they're absolutely thrilling
12:58
when you're watching them. I wouldn't disagree with that.
13:03
Tom Newsom says Hinchcliffe, Holmes and Baker Beyond
13:06
rightfully get praised, but this wouldn't have worked without Liz
13:10
Laden, Louise Jameson, Chris Boucher and David Maloney.
13:13
It's layers of focus to its audience, and the last three
13:16
episodes reach new heights of production.
13:19
I think he means the last. Three stories.
13:21
Yeah, I was going to say. Jason Thompson says not sure if
13:26
it's as good as it's cracked up to be.
13:28
Tom is at his best though, and Louise makes a fantastic start.
13:33
Chris Hopkins is my favorite era of Tom.
13:35
That beautiful box in a box scene.
13:37
The gothic inspired console room.
13:39
Only Mary Whitehouse could ruin this.
13:42
Hold on to your heart, I could join us.
13:44
Joe can ruin it. Yeah, don't worry.
13:46
Don't worry about that. I never thought I'd see the
13:48
debut. Joe compares himself with Mary
13:50
Whitehouse. There are there are many
13:52
similarities, many similarities. Brilliant in many.
13:55
No, I won't do the Mary Whitehouse.
13:57
Sorry, Lucy, back to you. Oh, we're on to on to Lee.
14:02
All right, so we are so Dan N says, not a bad season, not a
14:05
great season. Seasons 12 and 13 are so strong
14:08
for me though that it's almost impossible to keep up with
14:11
quality. I agree with that as well.
14:13
I've never spent so much time agreeing with people.
14:16
Dan Pin says. I find both mask and hand a bit
14:19
dull, but from Assassin onwards it's classics all the way.
14:23
Sarah's farewell is heartbreaking and so subtly
14:25
played by Tom and Liz. Has any other companion had a
14:28
better first three stories than Leela?
14:30
I don't think so. I'm with them on two of those
14:32
stories. Yeah, me too.
14:34
The first two, yeah. Well, well, I'll keep up with
14:40
the dry for that. When we get to you, who's next?
14:43
Michael Storm says peak of the Baker era.
14:46
Each story has villains, moments and iconography that leave
14:48
lasting impressions. The downside is it's a bit of a
14:51
sausage fest. Can I, Can I actually ask, how
14:54
is that ever a downside when something's a sausage first?
14:57
I'm all for the sausage first. No, when we get into the Graham
15:00
Williams era and there's all those ladies everywhere, it's
15:03
just fabulous. Oh, sorry, we're talking about
15:05
Sorry I got. I got confused by that.
15:07
Apologies. Will you calm down please?
15:11
No, Chris Barnes says one of the best Hinchcliffe goes out in
15:14
style. OK, after that look, Dan
15:15
Hollingsworth says this will be a hard one to pick any from the
15:19
bin. The quality of the last few
15:21
seasons continues, and even replacing a much loved companion
15:24
with a slightly controversial new one doesn't reduce its
15:27
power. And that just goes to show you,
15:28
though, how a single word said wrong in a statement can change
15:33
because you said at the start that this will be very hard to
15:35
pick any from the bin. And it says for the bean,
15:39
technically, yeah, he's thrown them all away.
15:42
No, he hasn't. He loves it.
15:43
He loves it. OK, Tom Turlo says the final
15:47
series in what is arguably the greatest period in on the show's
15:50
history. Not every story is a classic,
15:54
but there are no real clunkers. Tom is in his prime.
15:56
Liz Sladen and Louise Jameson are two of the most fondly
15:59
remembered companions. Although I enjoy the Graham
16:01
Williams era, it's fair to say that things would never be quite
16:04
the same again after this. These were the glory days.
16:07
We never saw their like again. OK, and finally is a man who is
16:11
about to say he's got an unpronounceable son name, but
16:13
that'll be a damn cheek. But somebody a suddenly
16:14
Mcmenamy. So we've got John Basalia.
16:19
I think that's one from one. It says right there at the top
16:24
is one of the most consistently brilliant series of Doctor Who.
16:27
Dramatic, funny, scary, stylish, intelligent.
16:30
What's not to like? Tom Baker is at the height of
16:33
his powers, a benevolent, unpredictable alien revelling in
16:36
his adventures First Class. He does genuinely think of all
16:41
that, but we will point out that he loathes the new series so
16:45
much that I think he overplays his love for the classic series
16:49
because we have to read out so many comments of him bitching
16:52
him. He's got a few of those in the
16:54
comments coming up, don't worry. Oh, is he?
16:56
Oh yeah, right. Bring it on.
16:59
Right, so let's get into the stories themselves.
17:01
Come on, Lee, as our first timer, you can have the choice
17:05
of all six stories. Pick your story and you've got
17:07
60 seconds to tell us for three reasons why you're.
17:11
I just come to me and just Lee's told me how much prep he's done.
17:17
I'm just trying to lower expectations.
17:20
Right, let's see, where did I go first?
17:22
What did I go? Did I play enough trump card
17:24
straight away? Do I?
17:28
Do I do I OK, yeah, I'm going to go for it.
17:31
I'm going to. I'm going to play the big gun
17:32
straight off the bat. Go for it.
17:34
Let's start by saying, ah, the deadly assassin.
17:37
Let me list the ways in which you should be consigned to the
17:39
bin forever. I love starting with
17:45
controversy. OK, point #1 which is entitled
17:49
to George Pravda and his non performance.
17:53
I mean, God bless him, he's trying his best, but it really
17:56
is like your daughter, old one. Cole has won an equity card and
17:59
a Radio Times competition. At no point does this man sell
18:04
his performance. I can only think that the person
18:06
who done the cue cards for William Hartnell and the three
18:08
doctors needed some extra work because for all the world it
18:12
looks as if he's reading his lines off boards.
18:15
There's a flat delivery throughout its breadth of any
18:18
sort of nuance or excitement. I mean exhibit A for the
18:21
prosecution all of Gallifrey is falling.
18:24
The end times are upon us. The Master is in the ascendancy
18:28
and Georgia boy delivered his line.
18:29
If the Doctor was right, then the end of the world is
18:32
approaching. If all the zest and passion of a
18:34
man reading the training instructions on the side of a
18:36
packet of fenders crispy pancakes, he's.
18:39
Not wrong. He's not wrong, you know.
18:43
Similarly, at the end of the story, the day seemingly saved
18:46
with the villain of the peacemaking his escape in a
18:47
grandfather clock on Gallifrey for that matter.
18:50
So, you know, even the Masters chameleon suck it as knackers
18:53
too, we get. Look, the Master, delivered in
18:57
such a ways of George's himself, is at home idly flicking through
19:00
the channels before landing on this scene.
19:04
The history of Doctor Who is littered with Duff performances,
19:06
but this stands head and shoulders above the rest.
19:09
A bizarrely flat and monotonous performance.
19:12
I'm sensing Lucy's not agreeing with this because we'll get
19:16
there, Lucy, don't worry. I'm with you, Lucy, Don't worry.
19:20
Doesn't he have a mint? At one point he says a line and
19:23
then he puts like a an extra soft mint in it.
19:26
What's going on? It's called naturalism, Joe.
19:31
I wouldn't know anything about that.
19:37
OK. Should we go into the next one
19:39
then? Go for it, OK?
19:41
Right point #2 the companionless Dr. Now, if any story
19:47
illustrates the need not to give in to the whims of one Mr.
19:49
Thomas Stewart Baker, it's the Deadly Assassin.
19:53
Now I get it, An actor's life is a precarious one, and once you
19:56
get a full on taste of the limelight, you want to hold on
19:59
to that at all costs. But The Deadly Assassin is the
20:03
start of the manifestation of the greatest Doctor Who monster
20:06
of them all, Tom Baker's ego. We all know the story that wants
20:10
Leslie and left. Tom wanted to have the limelight
20:12
to himself, not in any way because he was bitter about
20:15
having to share the spotlight with Liz because as described,
20:17
the two of them couldn't have had them tight or working
20:20
relationship and he wanted to play the Doctor without a
20:23
companion. Now the sensible thing to do in
20:26
this situation, the producer of a popular show that Andrews and
20:28
having a good or double act front and centre would be put
20:31
the foot down and say no Tom, we're bringing in a new
20:34
companion straight away and no, you won't be able to select it
20:36
from the local green roasters. Instead, perhaps as a misguided
20:40
experiment, perhaps as a SOP to the leading man that's allowed
20:44
to go ahead and it just doesn't work.
20:47
We've got Tom talking to himself in the TARDIS, explaining the
20:50
plot to a degree, but without the naturalistic dialogue you
20:53
would have with Liz there to make these scenes engaging and
20:57
seem less like a director's commentary to the audience
20:59
explaining what's going on. If Thomas the Fly solo, then you
21:03
need to rely on the strength of a good supporting cast, and as
21:07
we all know, a Doctor Who, that's not necessarily a given.
21:10
If Tom had no one of a similar quality to bounce off, it all
21:13
falls flat. Take away a companion, someone
21:16
for the Doctor to spark off and have a solid relationship with,
21:19
then you take away be the heartbeat of the show.
21:21
No amount of talking cabbages in the world can replace that.
21:25
The deadly Assassin kick starts Tom Baker's ego on a runaway
21:27
ride to megalomania, sowing the seeds for every difficult
21:30
working relationship from here on and until he leaves, and
21:33
perhaps has some bearing on the way that poor old Louise Jameson
21:36
is treated by him when she comes aboard.
21:38
The Deadliest Assassin should go in the bin for feeding the
21:40
monster of Tom Baker's ego and setting it on a destructive
21:43
path. You know what?
21:46
I don't think I've agreed 100% with as many words as what you
21:52
just said there. I I actually think this is what
21:54
the tipping point for Tom. And he's, he is a monster from
21:58
this point on, unless there's a a female companion actress who
22:04
is strong enough to stand up to him, like Mary Tam and like Lala
22:06
Ward. And then even only sometimes,
22:09
yeah. Yeah, why do you agree?
22:13
So I'm so used to telling people they're talking nonsense, it's
22:16
quite nice to just say you know you're talking sense.
22:18
Refreshing change for you, Joe. OK, third and final point, and
22:23
this one does go on slightly, so I'll bring it on.
22:25
I'll try to get through as much as I can.
22:27
It's a little bit of a left field choice, but the headline
22:30
of giving it #3. Ian Levine, just just end there.
22:37
Just in the bed. It's in the.
22:38
Bed I'll explain my reasons. So my final reason for the
22:43
deadly assassin why it should be kicked into the time vortex.
22:46
It's the C word continuity. That story gives rise to the
22:51
specter of all the tedious continuity that plagues Doctor
22:54
Who from this point on. For starters, Gallifrey who
22:57
actually cares about Gallifrey. Really, the appeal of Doctor Who
23:00
up until this point is a Doctor is a mysterious traveller in
23:03
space and time who will know little about about his sight of
23:06
his adventures and his relationships with his
23:08
companions. Every adventure is a story onto
23:11
itself. It's wrapped up, we move on,
23:13
always going forwards. Sure, we get a little
23:16
tantalizing mentions of his past every so often, and a couple of
23:19
meetings with his own kinds along the way, but they're
23:21
always at arm's length to a certain extent.
23:24
Until now, though, I'm not going to deny that Robert Holmes is
23:28
right to world building. But in Deadly Assassin, he's
23:31
done the unthinkable. He's crossed the streams, he's
23:33
accidentally dropped the Mogwai in the sink, he's fed the
23:36
ferocious blossoming beast of fandom.
23:39
We get so much info dumped upon us here.
23:41
You've got Time Lord hierarchy, you've got Rasalon, the Eye of
23:44
Harmony. All of these things set in stone
23:47
and given in importance. This sets and feels in motion
23:50
for the whole raft of identity stories of Time Lord, betrayal,
23:53
the Time War, several Big Finish box sets.
23:58
All of it. Stuffy protocol and back story.
24:01
It's all here. A quicksand strap right there.
24:04
Boom. Sorry, a quicksand trap ready to
24:07
bog the showdown should it dip its toes in.
24:08
Too often it provides an anchor to this world.
24:11
The Doctor can wander as much as he likes, but here he gets too
24:14
integrated in the politics of this world to ever really, truly
24:17
shake it off. And of course, the biggest crime
24:20
of all, paving the way for a continuity laid in future,
24:23
inevitably giving rise to the employment as continuity advisor
24:26
of one Mr. Ian Levine. If we raise the deadly assassin
24:30
from assistance existence, then we also lose Ian Levine.
24:33
How can anyone argue against that?
24:36
Well, quite. Yeah, but you, you.
24:39
Can't blame Deadly Assassin for some of the app that comes after
24:43
that. To be fair, you're laying,
24:46
you're trying to, you're trying to, but you know.
24:50
No, I get what he's saying. I get what I get completely what
24:52
it's all. Put on paper here all of the
24:54
rules about Gallifrey, the regenerations, everything that
24:58
basically informs the series in the 80s.
25:01
Yeah, I've never thought of it that way before.
25:04
Oh, I might change my mind. Shall we go to the comments?
25:08
There were quite There were more negative comments on deadly
25:11
assessment than I was expecting, and that was obviously before I
25:13
heard Lee's diatribe against it. But let's go to the comments.
25:18
John Bensalia says so many genres, horror, whodunnit,
25:21
political commentary, sci-fi, SATA, action, realism, and yet
25:25
this tale scores top marks on all of them.
25:28
A bold experiment with lots of quotable lines.
25:31
The Masters bravery voice does make me laugh though.
25:34
It's terrible. Wouldn't it?
25:35
Daniel Knight rewrites Gallifrey as a space version of Last of
25:38
the Summer Wine and brings the Master back to great effect.
25:42
Part three maybe padding, but it's perfectly filmed and
25:44
directed on film. Iconic.
25:47
Paul Quinn says no longer Dix's Krypton.
25:49
Like Gallifrey, this is Holmes's satirical, cynical, corrupt,
25:53
hypocritical state, part Oxbridge College, part
25:56
Whitehall, part Vatican, decaying and pompous.
25:59
And this is where the Master first appears as a deranged
26:02
psychopath. Delgado's cool controlled
26:05
supervillain is replaced by Doctor Who's equivalent of the
26:07
Joker. Jason Thompson so little plot
26:11
that part three is 25 minutes of fantasyland where the only point
26:15
is revealing Goth as a traitor. And again, the ending is piss
26:18
poor. Oh, I'm assuming he's got some
26:20
issues with other endings then as the Master falls down a big
26:23
hole in terms of Doctor Who's future history.
26:27
This is a low a load bearing tale, but been Jason.
26:32
Big Orange Michael said Robert Holmes's stories have been
26:34
planting seeds that maybe the Time Lords weren't as noble as
26:37
originally presented for a while now.
26:40
Deadly Assassin brings this to the fore with the deconstruction
26:43
of their society and law. That's a bit like Harry Hill's
26:47
TV poetry corner, isn't it? The the once the fore with their
26:50
society and law. A masterpiece.
26:52
Keep it. Tom Newsome.
26:54
I thought The Deadly Assassin was the coolest idea ever when I
26:57
was younger, but now it seems tiresome.
27:00
The definition of style over substance.
27:02
Baby Gillespie Pratt says the job is season needed.
27:05
The first two episodes are magnificent, building politics
27:08
and intrigue. This is something quite unlike
27:10
the series has ever done before. Part three though.
27:13
Lovely production but drags. Final episode is just OK.
27:17
Complexicated cookie. I can take it or leave it.
27:19
It's a great premise, but the scenes of the Matrix are so good
27:23
that the rest of it pales in comparison.
27:25
Steve Malice is a favorite for a long time.
27:27
Very mature in candidate but all the better for it.
27:30
Love seeing Inside the Matrix and finally getting a glimpse at
27:33
Gallifrey. Michael Storm masterpiece, no
27:36
pun intended. Brilliant dialogue and
27:39
characterization. The set design and lighting are
27:41
gorgeous. Peter Pratt is great as the
27:43
master and the make up is fantastic.
27:45
It certainly freaked me as a little bit.
27:49
Darren Lit Roundel says the individual episodes are all
27:51
strong with fun dialogue, but they failed to make a cohesive
27:54
whole. I love the production.
27:56
David Maloney makes it amusingly arch and melodramatic.
27:59
Gallifrey would never be as stylish again.
28:01
Superficial fun. Oh here he is, the Gallifrey
28:05
lover himself. Jr.
28:07
Southall one of those glorious 1 offs that the series manages
28:11
only when it's coasting on a full tank.
28:13
I doubt you could have tried this with Pertwee and Davison,
28:15
but Tom was vindicated. Although it's Maloney sublime
28:19
direction that brings it all together.
28:21
Dave Rennie says So different and violent.
28:23
This was Holmes, This was Holmes.
28:25
Unfiltered injections, getting gunned down by a plane.
28:29
An insane master. I think they did go too far with
28:31
this one. The insightful Cy heart says
28:34
part the. Insane Cy heart.
28:36
Dreary, violent episode, long chase that's well shot by the
28:39
slob to get through. Part four, however, is one of
28:43
the single funniest episodes of the show.
28:46
Especially the pratmaster trying to sound menacing through that
28:48
mask. It's like, and you'll get the
28:54
same. It's terrible.
28:58
Paul Smyth is very overrated, the scenes in the Matrix are
29:01
interminable and go on nearly half the story, the two old
29:04
codgers in Gallifrey are very poor and the reveal of Goth is
29:07
the masters puppet was so obvious.
29:09
I do like the Master here, but he has very little to do.
29:12
I do hope Paul Smyth is a young man.
29:14
You know, throwing shade on those two old codgers.
29:18
Kev Blower a tad overrated. The time laws are now very
29:21
ordinary and petty with Gallifrey looking cheap.
29:24
The matrix scenes are still very atmospheric though.
29:27
I'm finally mad, Paddington says.
29:30
I've fallen asleep every time I've tried to watch it.
29:33
So, Lucy, you've got Mad Paddington and Madly to contain.
29:39
How do you feel about The Deadliest?
29:41
Lucy, how do you feel about this?
29:43
I've got pills for that. You know, I enjoyed it.
29:47
Actually. I, I wasn't expecting the
29:49
beginning of it to be so funny, or at least I thought it was
29:52
funny. The, the kind of yes, Minister
29:56
power struggles of the, the Time Lords being just really petty
30:00
and unpleasant. And, and the the bit that really
30:03
tickled me was when they chalked the outline on the ground of his
30:06
cake. That made me laugh rather more
30:09
than it should have done. Probably.
30:12
I like George Pravda as the detective.
30:14
I'm not going to argue the toss with people, with the with the,
30:17
you know, your view of his performance.
30:19
I had a totally different one. That's just how it is.
30:22
I like that Bernard Horsehall isn't it?
30:24
Because he's always great and he is you.
30:28
You do know it's him. But then I don't mind knowing
30:31
that. It's because when you know,
30:34
slightly ahead of the characters, it adds to the
30:36
tension a bit, I think anyway, in some cases it doesn't.
30:40
In some cases you think, oh you idiots, why haven't you seen
30:42
that? But I don't think it works in
30:43
this case because he appears to be just keen to do everything by
30:46
the book. But actually, he's the villain
30:48
all along when he's. In the Matrix though, Lucy, he's
30:50
got that sock over his head and he's clearly got sort of a burn
30:54
of horse form sight sized. Head but anyway.
30:57
It takes until he pulls it off and he goes golf.
31:01
But then I suppose I think that that Tom in the Todd is talking
31:06
to himself works OK because of his tone, because you can
31:11
imagine him as the sort of person who would wander around
31:14
talking to himself out loud. I didn't mind that particularly.
31:20
I think the bit in the Matrix does go on a bit.
31:22
I liked the idea of the Matrix as a kind of assemblage of Time
31:27
Lord experience rather than what it turned into, which was sort
31:32
of the strands of time being woven together as far as I
31:36
understand it later on. Where you know the Master has
31:39
control of the Matrix and the bit in the shock of Infinity
31:42
where. Omega has control of the matrix.
31:44
Exactly. So yes.
31:46
So yeah, it it the idea of it being a sort of Time Lord
31:50
experience Databank seemed to make a bit more sense, but it
31:57
didn't really make sense. Although that idea made sense, I
32:01
didn't understand then how the Master was able to turn it into
32:05
what the Doctor landed in. Because if it's a kind of Time
32:11
Lord encyclopaedia of all their experiences, what, How did that,
32:16
How did that work? I don't understand, but I did
32:18
enjoy. The Matrix has appeared so many
32:20
times, I don't think they've ever quite got their finger on
32:23
Wallace. No, I just, I just love because
32:24
when he, when the the, the ancient, I did like the ancient
32:27
archivist. Of course, I like the ancient
32:29
archivist. The when he was talking about
32:33
it, it sounded to me like, yeah, like a kind of Time Lord
32:36
encyclopedia. So we take the cells that had
32:38
their experiences ingrained in them.
32:39
It's a bit yikki, but we put them together and it makes this
32:42
huge Bank of knowledge and what have you.
32:46
And then he goes into it and it's sort of North by Northwest.
32:50
What? It's Eagle Wikipedia.
32:54
Yeah. But yeah, on the whole I quite
32:57
enjoyed it. Fabulous.
32:59
So that's a plus from Lucy Joe. Nay, now come on now, you know
33:04
that your vote doesn't count, right?
33:06
So it's just the three of us voting now.
33:08
You should have gone for something that you did like
33:11
because I was really bored watching this as well.
33:14
I didn't really like this at all and I have like this in the
33:18
past. I think the biggest problem with
33:20
this is Gallifrey and my relationship with Gallifrey,
33:23
which I think is the dullest planet ever to exist.
33:27
And, and unfortunately this sets the mould and all the sort of
33:32
the visual imagery, the collars, the tedious, all, the, all the,
33:38
oh God, what word am I looking for?
33:42
That's the word, all the tedious rituals, the politics, all that.
33:46
This leads to Invasion of Time, which is worse than this, which
33:51
leads to Arc of Infinity, which is worse than this, which leads
33:55
to Hell Bent, which is about as low as it goes.
33:58
Sorry, Jr. Southall.
34:00
Yeah, this they just don't. They can't do this planet.
34:03
Well, this is the ultimate planet Zorg.
34:05
And I can see what he's doing. He's trying to take away that
34:08
God like image from the war games and bring this right down
34:12
and make it a sort of gothic fantasy and political and
34:15
interesting, but it isn't really that interesting if I'm honest.
34:22
I think we've got a disappointingly crude and
34:24
characterless master in this as well.
34:26
Everybody lures Peter Pratt's performers.
34:29
I can't even see him giving a performance because of that
34:32
hideous bloody mask. He's got stuck on his face and
34:35
so it's right, you can't hear half the dialogue.
34:37
So it's all sort of done with body language and even that's
34:40
not great. I think the way you do of Saline
34:43
is quite funny sometimes. I don't understand why he's as
34:46
angry as he is that the the script doesn't bother to go into
34:49
it. So if you.
34:49
Look like that, you'd be pretty angry.
34:51
Yeah, We don't know why he looks like that, though.
34:54
The last time we saw him, he looked like Roger Delgado.
34:57
I mean, you'd be happy with that, wouldn't you?
34:58
I don't know. I, I, I mean, I think the Master
35:01
is a fairly boring character anyway, but he's at his most
35:03
boring here because he seems motiveless and there's no
35:07
explanation as to how we got here as well.
35:09
So it all just feels a bit unsatisfying.
35:11
You put him in that mask with the lack of performance and the
35:14
whole thing just feels empty to me.
35:16
The threat anyway. And one of the biggest problems
35:21
of this season are the episode fours.
35:23
Robert Holmes can script edit a story that starts really well
35:28
and he very rarely conscripted it.
35:30
A story that ends well and a load of the episode fours even
35:33
in the good stories this year are fucking lame.
35:37
As. And that chaotic poorly realised
35:40
scene of Jabberlite being thrown around in the panopticon while
35:44
that enormous crystal like shoots up from the air.
35:47
I don't have a bloody clue what's the razzle OnStar but
35:51
jeez it's like. That's the McCoy voice.
35:54
That's how to. Use it for everything.
35:57
I don't know. I so after an episode 3, which
35:59
just runs on the spot, it looks pretty but runs on the spot.
36:02
And then in episode 4, it's just I can't, I don't really know
36:06
what's happening, if I'm honest. Yeah, it all falls apart from
36:09
me. I think the first two episodes
36:10
are quite witty and you have some fun character.
36:13
I love run sport. I think he's really fun.
36:14
Unfortunately, he gets a knife in the back, so that's where my
36:18
interest in the story falls out. And Tom is very charismatic in
36:21
this, but this talking directly to us, I mean it, it goes into
36:26
the face of evil as well. At the beginning when he walks
36:28
out the tarts and goes, oh, there's a knot in my hanky.
36:30
Why is that there? It's just awful.
36:33
Give him someone to talk to. Big Finnish has been doing this
36:36
for years and years, having the Doctor in the TARDIS at the
36:38
start and it just never works. So yeah, I think there's there's
36:44
lots of good filming in this. Maloney is a good director.
36:47
The world building is well done, but the lack of companion, like
36:52
they said, means I never want to go back and watch this because
36:55
one of my joys of Doctor Who is watching that chemistry between
36:58
the two leads. They're my my in.
37:00
The characters are always my in. So yeah, I I wasn't impressed,
37:03
I'm afraid. So it's one apiece.
37:05
So I have the deciding vote. And obviously this is going in.
37:09
I don't know what you two are talking about.
37:12
Lucy, you're right, you bonkers. The power of you.
37:15
I think you can't really blame what follows of this story.
37:20
Seen this the first time. This is the first time we've
37:22
seen all of that pomp and circumstance, those costumes and
37:26
Gallifrey presented this way. So it's fresh and unique at this
37:29
point. Yes, it does get overused and
37:31
yes, it does lead to Arc of Infinity and the water fountain
37:34
The Five Doctors, but that is not the fault of this episode.
37:38
We blame what came before then because this is a reaction to
37:40
that. It is absolutely it's.
37:42
Boring. Well, I don't think it's boring
37:45
in the slightest. And I'll tell you my reasons why
37:50
You, you make a very, very nicely.
37:53
You're really going for the heart there, aren't you?
37:55
But no, I'm still putting it through.
37:57
I'm closing my ears to the, the possibility of this, you know.
38:01
But anyway, I've got three reasons and they're all numbers.
38:04
And my first number is #22 can anyone work out what 22
38:10
represents in this story? How many minutes sleep you had
38:13
during Part 3? Definitely not.
38:16
You're in the right ballpark. It's actually the number of
38:19
nightmare images created in the matrix sequence.
38:22
So you've got an alligator falling off a Cliff, a masked
38:26
samurai, an operation table, World War One battlefield being
38:30
trapped in railway gorges, breaking an egg, vultures eyes
38:33
watching you, a clown, World War Two biplane bleeding to death,
38:36
masked man with a shotgun, a giant spider, thirst, hand
38:39
grenade poisoning, being haunted, low pipes stuck in
38:42
mask, studying, stuck in mud, even being set on fire and being
38:45
drowned. Now what a note that was.
38:48
Absolutely. It's such an unrelenting
38:51
sequence and to me, I'm sorry, I mean, I'm going to really like,
38:54
but as a 10 year old watching that, that was the most
38:58
thrilling thing I had ever seen in my life.
39:01
It was just remarkable. And to even compare to what's
39:04
gone before as a pure fancy sequence, compare that to the
39:09
tedium of the Celestial Toy Makers Domain or the
39:12
childishness of the Mind Drop anymore.
39:15
Not anymore, no. I love the new animation, but
39:17
that's another story. But the original production is
39:21
shoddy at best. This, in comparison, feels
39:24
gritty and threatening. And it's sold even more by the
39:28
fact that we keep going back to the Doctor and seeing him
39:30
sweating. We're seeing the physical strain
39:31
on him, and we, Elgin and Spangled, keep reminding us that
39:35
he can die in the Matrix. So the stakes feel really high
39:38
here. And the Doctor's on the back
39:40
foot. He's filthy, his clothes are
39:42
torn, he's got blood all over him.
39:44
I don't think we ever see the doctor looking this.
39:47
Believe it again in the classic run.
39:49
Possibly Andrews Army with them up, but not to this degree of
39:52
bleeding and blooded. I'm almost down.
39:55
I'm not going to suggest anything against your psychosis
39:59
roles please. Is is this still for kids?
40:01
So really. A bloody doctor being held
40:04
underwater, shot at poison darts like is this.
40:09
For kids, yes, it is absolutely OK.
40:11
It's not for very young kids. Sitting there.
40:15
It's moved on from but that's, I mean, Holmes and Hinchcliffe
40:18
always said they were pitching it more at your 14 year olds.
40:21
It's not for very young kids anymore.
40:23
Absolutely not. That's not a bad thing.
40:25
I was 10 and absolutely lapped it up.
40:27
I say I thought this was the greatest thing ever and I think
40:30
that Episode 3, watching that now, is a fantastic piece of
40:34
television. So sorry, Si, you're completely
40:36
wrong. My second point is number 13,
40:40
Lee, you've already touched on this and Joe as well.
40:43
You know, yes, we do learn a lot of Time Lord law here, that Time
40:46
Lords can have 12 regenerations, 13 bodies.
40:49
And at the time that that put the fear of God into me because
40:52
I suddenly thought, shit, this program has got a finite life.
40:55
It's only got 13 lives to go out.
40:56
The production team said they thought it was a long way in the
40:59
future. But to a kid that loved Doctor
41:01
Who, the thought that it could end at some point was very
41:03
scary. But what is symptomatic is, is
41:05
Robert Holmes adding flesh to the law and the bones of the
41:08
Time Lords and yes bands, probably even Ian Levine were
41:12
absolutely out outrage at the time.
41:14
When I joined DWAS in about 79 they were voting this the worst
41:18
story of all time. I thought you were trade the
41:20
past. I thought you were the look of a
41:22
DWAS member, you know? I got out very quickly.
41:25
I skate, he's seen. Things, man, he's seen things.
41:29
Oh, I did see things. Yeah.
41:30
That's that's a therapy session for another day.
41:33
Do you? Not think it's straight jackets
41:35
to show though by knuckling it down like this.
41:38
A show that has endless possibilities like you said now
41:41
has a finite life unless you get to that point like we did and
41:46
then you just need some lame ass excuse to keep it going.
41:50
Do you know what the 13 lives wrong but bleed a little bit the
41:55
rest of it? No, because it's treated as a
41:57
stand alone story. And the thing I find really
42:00
fresh about this compared to your Arcs of Infinity and your
42:03
Five Doctors is that nobody knows what's going on.
42:06
So Spandrel and Elgin don't recognize the police box.
42:09
They don't know who the Master is, they don't know who the
42:11
Doctor is. That feels really refreshing
42:14
after I've rewatched lots of Arc Infinities and Five Doctors when
42:18
everybody bloody knows everything about everyone here.
42:21
It's still new and they're all learning at the same time that
42:24
we're learning. So I, I find it really
42:26
interesting. Like you, Lucy, I find it quite
42:28
yes, Prime Minister, I love the kind of political machinations.
42:31
I think that works really well. You got Spandrel.
42:34
Spandrel and Elgin, I think they're a great So Yahoo sucks
42:38
to you, Leigh. I love the sardonic wit of it
42:41
all. I I find it really tickles my
42:43
fancy. This and my last number is #9
42:47
because Barusa awards the Doctor 9 out of 10 at the end.
42:50
But fuck him, he's wrong. It's 10 out of 10.
42:53
It's going through. Don't you ever go at him and say
42:56
he's only got 60 seconds. Would you go on for that long?
42:58
Jesus Christ, I I'll say one thing to you, Rod will never
43:04
amount to anything in strictly. Come, hamster, have you insist
43:07
on this propensity of vulgar facetiousness?
43:11
Thank you, Sir. Lucy, would you like to pick
43:15
your first story? Oh yes.
43:18
OK. So I'm going to choose one that
43:21
I like and that is Mask of Man Dragger, which I have talked
43:27
about with, with Dave on the Kettle before and I, I enjoy a
43:32
lot. It's possibly because of other
43:35
interests that I have or possibly just because I enjoy
43:37
it. I like the, I mean, it sounds
43:40
bad to start with the settings. So that sounds like a show where
43:43
you go home whistling the scenery.
43:45
But I do like the setting. I think it works really well.
43:48
Port Marion looks gorgeous and double s well for Renaissance
43:52
Italy and I think the indoor and outdoor sets work well together.
43:56
Obviously you can tell the difference because you always
43:59
can. I like the characters the the
44:04
the two young men are great and they have a great relationship
44:07
and Tom Pickett Smith is gorgeous in this on a totally
44:13
shallow level. He looks just as if he stepped
44:15
out of a Titian portrait. And just gorgeous.
44:18
You're in the right place to be shallow.
44:19
Listen right. I really, I really like their
44:22
relationship. I like that they built it on,
44:25
apparently built it on the idea of Hamlet and Horatio.
44:28
There's a reading of Hamlet and Horatio's relationship that says
44:33
that they are romantically involved.
44:36
It's not one that I follow for Hamlet, but I think in this case
44:38
it's certainly there, which is great.
44:43
I love the Duke because he's so horrible and rude and hissable,
44:47
and it's like the writers trying to get a bit of sort of
44:51
Shakespearean insulting going on as well.
44:54
I'm not sure that the whole rationality versus superstition
45:00
works entirely because you've got the priest as well as the
45:06
mad high priest, who I'd also love.
45:08
He's fab. I mean, in anything, choose the
45:11
scenery when required. Sarah doesn't have a
45:15
particularly good showing in it is one thing I would say.
45:19
On the other hand, it does contribute to the fact that
45:22
she's just about reaching the end of her tether with the
45:26
various incidents and accidents that she undergoes in the thing.
45:32
So. But on the whole I like it.
45:34
Fabulous. Let us go to the comments.
45:37
Hold on, says beautifully designed, lovely costumes,
45:39
wonderful locations and nice direction.
45:42
All the magical elements are there.
45:44
So why is it boring as fuck? Jr.
45:47
Southall says solid and somewhat less light on its feet, but the
45:51
BBC period drama characters are very watchable and Port Mary,
45:55
the setting is gorgeous. Daniel Knight says a sumptuous
45:58
historical, yet it feels a bit flat.
46:00
Is it the direction the brothers doing the hokey cokey?
46:03
Is it the crap sparkler effect? All of the above, perhaps?
46:07
Darren lit roundels a quality cast and strong production, but
46:10
it's pretty boring. Oh, we're hearing that a lot.
46:12
Tom and Liz separated for so long isn't good.
46:15
David Gillespie, Pratt says, looks nice, but it's all quite
46:17
flat and unmemorable. It's one of those stories that's
46:20
just they're not doing much. A dreary bunch.
46:25
Jack Coyer like Castro Valvo. A breezy, quaint Sunday
46:29
afternoon story that might as well be about magic rather than
46:31
science fiction. James Lark says, is it taking
46:34
yourself a bit too seriously to deliver the romantic, daring do
46:38
it aspires to? I love Tom Baker buckling his
46:41
squash. I love her scenery chewing
46:43
villain. But we have to wait another two
46:45
years to see it done with Rio gusto.
46:47
Oh, he's. Talking about Andrews of Tar,
46:49
isn't he he? Must certainly is.
46:51
Jason Thompson. In terms of the voices alone,
46:53
it's the richest casting ever. Oh man, don't you love the way
46:56
you manages to make traitor have like 15 syllables You with Tim
47:03
Pickett Smith, Robert James, Norman Jones and John Lorimore
47:06
in particular giving Tom a run for his money.
47:09
A decent plot and a pleasing conclusion where the alien
47:11
intelligence is trying to prevent humanity's scientific
47:15
progress. Ian Winston says Hinchcliffe
47:17
often picks this is his favorite, but I think it's the
47:19
lesser of all these episodes. Still good fun though.
47:22
And Norman Jones Anonymous is great.
47:25
Paul Smy. A wonderful story, helped by
47:27
some fantastic location filming, some exceptional performances
47:30
from the cast and some classic cliffhangers, especially Part 3.
47:34
John Bensalia And this is where we get the first New Who jab
47:37
from good old John, unfairly criticized for being dull just
47:41
because it's not shallow high speed app like New Who thanks
47:45
John. Instead, this is a strikingly
47:47
sumptuous production that includes equal helpings of
47:50
intelligence, scripting and horror.
47:52
Luke Sims Jenkins, A rarity for the 70s, a story set hundreds of
47:57
years in the past. I love it.
47:59
Great characters, imagery and the Doctor sword fighting.
48:02
Michael Stones is a strong season opener with an
48:05
interesting, unusual and abstract threat in the form of
48:07
the Helix. Norman Jones does his best
48:10
Vincent Price. A perfect mix of period
48:12
political intrigue and sci-fi gothic horror.
48:15
Absolute gem. And Hollingsworth the weakest.
48:18
But it's still an entertaining story and I love the absurd
48:21
TARDIS scenes and new console room design.
48:24
Andrew Kerno says worthy but dull, like all Louis Marks
48:27
scripts. That's day of the Daleks day.
48:31
Steve Miller horribly overlooked.
48:33
God there's a lot of comments on this one.
48:35
Horribly overlooked but has some nice folk horror elements.
48:38
I love secret cults, cults, and supernatural forces.
48:42
In Who? There are some nice comic
48:44
elements in there too. Anthony Carroll says a great
48:47
romp and a great villain in the Count.
48:49
Lush location work. Gareth Baley suffers like poor
48:52
old time lash by being surrounded by more interesting
48:54
stories. Don't often hear Time Lash being
48:56
called. Poor old time Lash, Joel
48:59
Catherine says. Feels tedious since you're
49:01
constantly waiting for the plot to catch up to all the things
49:04
you already know. And finally, Mikey Smith, my
49:08
least watched story. I just can't engage with it.
49:12
So Lee Lucy has made a rousing defense for, well, I would say
49:19
so if I'm asking, how do you feel about the mask man,
49:22
Dragara? Well, two of my points.
49:25
One definitely agrees with what Lucy said, One sort of.
49:30
Half agrees, half doesn't. So we'll start on the +1.
49:33
We'll go point number one, Location, location, location.
49:37
Port Marion is a brilliant choice of location, really sells
49:40
the idea of 15th century Italy as Lucy said, and it really sets
49:44
herself apart from all the location shoots of the classic
49:47
era. It's a perfect location without
49:50
adding too much set dressing. It's got the look and the feel
49:53
of the time and it does make you wish that the classic CDs that
49:56
make more use of unusual locations like this.
49:59
There's been a lot of attention paid to what's going on in the
50:02
screen. It's very colourful, the
50:04
settings, the colours of Pope Marion's buildings all pop off
50:07
the screen. Especially now we can enjoy it
50:09
on Blu-ray and the production rises to it.
50:12
There's colourful surroundings are matched with the rich
50:14
colours of the costumes, complementing the backgrounds
50:17
perfectly. Well.
50:18
That's through locker design. We don't know, but the
50:21
production team have played an ace year classic Doctor Who that
50:23
looked so good. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing
50:25
with you. Once again I feel like however
50:30
coming, Yeah, I feel. It's a however coming.
50:35
Well, let's see, what's the next point?
50:37
Let's Slayden. And this is, you don't have to
50:41
run with me on this one because it's a bit of a reach, but list
50:43
laden the Patrick Troughton of companions.
50:47
She only had one family. OK, that's a bold claim,
50:53
perhaps, but let me back it up. And this year of the show, list
50:55
Laden is great. Keep an eye on every single time
50:59
she's not speaking. She's saying 1000 lines with her
51:01
face, reacting and responding to everything that's going on in
51:05
each scene without even saying a word.
51:07
There's not a single beat wasted while she's on screen.
51:10
Unlike some actors who grace the halls of Doctor Who, she's never
51:14
passively waiting for her next line.
51:16
Like shouting. There's always a little subtle
51:18
bit of business going on in the background if you care to look
51:20
for it. It's never distracting from the
51:22
plot or the performance of another actor.
51:24
It's never seen stealing. But just there in the background
51:28
is Liz. Given rounded natural reactions
51:31
enhance each scene without a single origins, and this story
51:35
in particular get a nicely nice tiny humour former she's
51:38
painting and sympathetic to Giuliano.
51:41
Any lesser complaining would they call him a fucking idiot
51:43
when he states that the earth might be around, but she humours
51:47
them. If I ever coming across as
51:48
someone who knows better, she's also the hypnotism queen.
51:52
I mean, not for this, not for this lady.
51:55
The stomping about the same without the light looking at
51:57
monotonous voice. Every line's peppered with an
52:00
inflection of a slightly different delivery.
52:03
Of course it's aided and abated by fire chemistry with Tom,
52:06
which I think shows when they bring back loosely than any
52:09
point in the future. It never really feels the same.
52:12
That element is missing. Well, it's a change in acting
52:15
style or directors trying to mould their back into being
52:18
1970s Liz Sladen. I don't know, but you never get
52:21
those sort of same level of performances again.
52:24
And somebody then she is the companion.
52:26
Patrick Troughton, always an engaging and presence on the
52:28
screen, watchable, likeable, enhancing what's going on,
52:32
forever distracting or stealing the limelight from others.
52:35
Are you paying attention? Tom Baker, she's always
52:38
mentioned as being the best companion of all on the strength
52:40
of performances like this. Hard to argue with it, isn't it?
52:44
Absolutely. It's all the things you just
52:46
said. Until Louise Jameson comes along
52:49
and then she shows us how it's really dumb.
52:52
I can joke, I love Sarah Jane. I'm nearly I'm nearly
52:57
disconnected then. It's just that unfortunately, in
53:01
this particular, I mean, I'm I'm absolutely about her
53:03
performance, completely agree. But the character has a terrible
53:07
time and and doesn't have doesn't have what has hardly any
53:12
agency at all. Yeah.
53:14
It's not the best story for the character, but I think Liz's
53:16
performance really does kind of bring it up several notches.
53:19
It's really good final point for the Masked Man Dragara.
53:25
Familiarity doesn't breed contempt, so this might sound
53:28
like a strange opening gambit for a point in favour of Masked
53:31
Man Dragara, but run with in this one.
53:33
It's perhaps the most regressive story of the season.
53:36
It feels like something that belongs in a pair of WE series.
53:39
It's got the trappings of lavish costumes and sets.
53:42
There's to be a sacrifice. There's demonic forces at work.
53:46
It's traditional Doctor Who, for this time period at least,
53:49
whereas all the other stories in this season are trying to do
53:51
something new and different. But that's no bad thing when
53:54
this is the end result. It's a story that holds the
53:57
attention, has some great set pieces and action scenes.
54:01
It's very familiar. But isn't that the best approach
54:03
for the series opener? Something that's fun, engaging,
54:06
but won't scale the horses as a weight, Easy audience back in
54:10
for another series of adventures.
54:11
You could do a lot worse than Mask and Dragara.
54:15
Hey, positive reading. Excellent.
54:16
OK, I'm going to go on mask and absolutely I'm putting this
54:21
through. So just before this launch there
54:24
was an interview with Philip Hinchcliffe in the Radio Times,
54:26
which is quite a dry interview, but all dry with oh I know and I
54:32
was terrible. Have you heard the commentaries?
54:34
I have unfortunately, however, he nearly put me off Doctor Who
54:38
for life in this interview and I've not really read this
54:41
interview since, but this phrase stuck in my head for the last
54:46
God knows how many years. Nearly 50 years.
54:48
I remember this phrase. I went back to the interview to
54:50
check it was there and it was there and he said what this
54:53
series was going to do was to accommodate.
54:56
And I quote the growing taste for science fantasy and romance.
55:02
Now as a 10 year old, the thought of romance in Doctor Who
55:07
absolutely terrified the bejesus.
55:10
I would. Love it now.
55:11
Well, at that time, at 10, I thought romance we're going to
55:15
have hissing and stuffing. Doctor.
55:17
No, no, no, no, no, no no. I was absolutely apoplectic as
55:22
only a 10 year old can be. No hanky panky.
55:26
Absolutely. And then it turned out to be a
55:28
gay romance, Say hey, it's fine. Is it?
55:32
But I but I but I don't think it's, I don't think he means
55:35
romance in that. Sense.
55:36
Oh I know, I know. But as a 10 year old reading up,
55:39
obviously all I could think of I wouldn't have.
55:41
Been up for that. No, I all I could think of was
55:43
Barbara Cartland at that point. Thank God this we didn't get
55:46
that when you should have made a good villain.
55:47
Is it a gay romance? So like, I think, I think they
55:51
they flirt with the idea, but in a season that's very bold in a
55:56
lot of ways, they don't really go through with it.
55:59
They're they're friends. They just come across as
56:01
friends. I.
56:02
Think there's enough touchy feel in US there, Joe, to kind of
56:05
yes. It's not overt if you don't see
56:07
it, but once you know it's there, you can't.
56:09
It's the dullest gay romance you're ever going to see.
56:13
What a pair. Anyway, my three reasons.
56:16
The first one is this is an absolute melting pot of
56:19
different sources. There's so many different
56:21
influences and homage is that Lucy, like you, I absolutely
56:25
pick up the Hamlet. There's a lot here, though.
56:28
There are a lot of parallels to Hamlets.
56:30
You've got the Prince with his trusty male companion, as you
56:33
rightly say that he's vying for power with his uncle after the
56:37
death of his father, which happens before the action
56:39
begins. And what follows is all that
56:41
series of court intrigues and switching alliances.
56:44
So there is a lot of Hamlet parallels here.
56:47
Hieronymus has got more than a touch of Rasputin about him, and
56:50
that's ironic seeing as the Tom Baker was the last to play
56:52
Rasputin on film in 1971's Nicholas and Alexander.
56:56
We've got lots of Hammer Horror influences.
57:00
Alexander Alexandra, you're right.
57:04
I'm making it a gay. Version it's a whole different
57:07
relationship I've. Got.
57:08
I've got that whole gay romance in my head still.
57:11
It'd make an interesting film though, wouldn't that?
57:12
You're obsessed, man. I'm sorry it's talking to you,
57:15
Joe, that's still out. This is a romance after.
57:19
All, absolutely. There's also more than a hint of
57:23
hammer in there. You got possessions, sacrifice,
57:25
devil worshipping. You got lots of Dennis Wheatley
57:28
influences there, who was writing all those books of the
57:30
occult in the 60s and 70s. And then there are so many
57:33
parallels to a little film called Mask of the Red Death,
57:37
which is a 1964 film based on the Edgar Allan Poe novel, which
57:40
also set, ironically in medieval Italy and also features Satanic
57:45
pulse and robed figures and mask being ripped off to reveal
57:48
hideous things beneath. There's a lot of parallels
57:51
there. So yeah, there's a melting pot
57:52
of different sources here. Second reason you guys have
57:56
already touched on it, The Doctor and Sarah Chemistry, yes,
57:59
they don't get an awful lot to do together in the story, but
58:02
when they do, they absolutely shine.
58:04
Liz has been working on the show now for three years.
58:07
She knows exactly how to play this stuff.
58:10
It's interestingly, as you were talking, saying watch her in the
58:12
background. I wanted to pinpoint the scene
58:15
at the at the mask at the very end where she plays that so
58:20
incredibly well because a lot of actors would have just done gone
58:23
in and danced as if they knew they were doing.
58:25
Liz doesn't do that. She plays it.
58:28
She's always slightly behind everyone else and she's staring
58:31
intently at all the other characters and you can see her
58:34
thinking right now, I move here, now I move there.
58:37
So she's just slightly behind the beat with everyone.
58:40
She's scrutinizing their moves. It's really subtle, but it's
58:43
there. And you're absolutely right,
58:45
she's constantly acting as socks.
58:47
Often it's lovely. And then look at those lovely
58:49
opening sequences, the beginning round those awfully ramshackle
58:52
CSO TARDIS corridors. There's so much chemistry
58:55
between the two of them. That little laugh when he says,
58:58
oh, how big are you? And he says 5 foot 4 1/2.
59:01
It feels like it's kind of an impromptu outtake.
59:03
They're just laughing and joking together.
59:05
They genuinely feel like the best of friends.
59:08
So I love them for that. And then my third reason is,
59:11
look, this just oozes quality. There is some there are some
59:15
clunky bits. The Helix is pretty bad even by
59:18
1976 standards. Don't think the direction always
59:21
works. Terry Walsh is so bloody obvious
59:23
every time he's standing in for Tom.
59:26
But you know what? Overall it it looks gorgeous
59:28
acted to how it rarely lets up and it's endlessly entertaining.
59:31
So of course it's going through Joe.
59:35
Well, it's going through, but there is so much to love about
59:38
this. It is probably the most gorgeous
59:41
looking Doctor Who story frame for frame.
59:44
I don't just mean the location work, I mean the costumes as
59:47
well. I think it's got a gorgeous
59:49
Dudley Simpson soundtrack. I think individual scenes are
59:53
wonderful. You can't count count.
59:55
You know when he comes into the sword fight?
59:58
Sarah Jane at the dance at the end, Fabulous.
1:00:02
A huge camp over the top villain right in the middle of this.
1:00:06
So I don't understand why I find this also fucking boring.
1:00:09
It's so boring, this story. I'll never have started the
1:00:13
season on this note. I think the points that you guys
1:00:17
have made about Sarah Jane are really important.
1:00:20
And it's quite indicative of what's coming in the season,
1:00:22
sort of pulling back from giving women interesting things to do.
1:00:26
I don't often agree with Sophie Aldred, but I do agree with her.
1:00:30
I do agree with her in the Behind the Sofas, when there's a
1:00:33
scene in Giuliano's study where all the men are discussing the
1:00:38
politics and literature and all the exciting and interesting
1:00:42
things that are going on, and Paula Sladen is in the back of
1:00:45
the scene. She don't get one line.
1:00:46
She don't do nothing at all and I think for her penultimate
1:00:50
story that is a bit of a shame if I'm honest.
1:00:52
She she gets a better showing a hand of fear, but it's a shame.
1:00:57
I really dislike the gay couple in this.
1:01:01
I find them very quite dull and too too good.
1:01:04
There's no shades to them at all.
1:01:06
You've got the panto villain and then you've got these two guys
1:01:09
that are so good. There's no Shades of Grey in any
1:01:12
of this at all and I think the man Dracula Helix is a really
1:01:16
badly defined villain. I'm not entirely sure what it
1:01:19
astral forces or something. A bit like the master of the
1:01:23
deadly assassin. I know Robert Holmes has a good
1:01:25
idea for a villain or a monster but then we don't really do
1:01:30
anything with it. And again, Episode 4A,
1:01:34
completely lame ass conclusion where it's irved into the
1:01:38
ground, which we could have done in episode 2.
1:01:40
Frankly, yeah, I don't know. I'm really quite baffled because
1:01:43
this is full of incident. It's full of stylish direction,
1:01:47
great performances. There are witty lines in this,
1:01:51
but I am just utterly unengaged by most of it.
1:01:54
And I found myself sort of foam watching quite a bit when going
1:01:57
through it. So I think the problem here is
1:01:59
me rather than the mask of Mandragora.
1:02:02
But yeah, I thought this was really boring.
1:02:05
Joe, a little hint for you for the future.
1:02:06
It's always you love it is it is OK so it's going through anyway.
1:02:13
So that's our second one to go through.
1:02:16
Joe, it's your turn. Pick your story I.
1:02:18
Feel like I should be nice about something now after.
1:02:20
Please don't mean about. Please don't.
1:02:22
So let's talk about the Robots of Death, one of our best Doctor
1:02:27
Who stories of all time, according to everyone ever
1:02:30
again. In a season pack full of great
1:02:33
production values, this might be the peak.
1:02:37
And Philip Hinchgood says it. He bring in Michael Bryant and
1:02:40
he'll do lots of technical things.
1:02:41
And I wanted to actually focus on one quite dull shot.
1:02:46
And that is, it's a shot pulled right back where you've got the
1:02:50
TARDIS on a gantry and then there's like a matted in huge
1:02:55
space around it. And the stories full of bits and
1:02:58
bobs like that, the the robots on the bridge superimposed in
1:03:03
the window, things like that. There are just so many
1:03:06
impressive little details in this.
1:03:08
Now, I know Michael Bryant wasn't all that impressed with
1:03:11
the script and said, yes, Chris, we know exactly what you're
1:03:15
doing. You know, 10 little aliens or
1:03:17
whatever we're allowed to call it, 10 little aliens.
1:03:19
That's by Chris Steve Cole. I said there were none.
1:03:22
I think it's. Thank you.
1:03:23
Very much Lucy, yes. And then there were none.
1:03:25
It's. Had various titles.
1:03:27
You, you've got, you've got him out of a very trippy corner very
1:03:29
nicely now, Lucy. Well, we haven't even touched on
1:03:32
the racism yet, but I'm pleased he was displeased with this
1:03:38
script, which is a very accomplished script, may I say,
1:03:41
because then he went to town on the production value and you
1:03:45
know, those fabulous costumes that everybody's wearing, the
1:03:48
insane eye makeup, the hats on display, the Art Deco sets, the
1:03:54
robots themselves. So scary, that weird, beautiful
1:03:58
parody of the human face. Absolutely terrifying.
1:04:03
So yeah, the whole thing just looks like it's had $1,000,000
1:04:07
spent on it, and I'm sure it didn't have much more money than
1:04:09
your average Doctor Who story. So it just goes to show you got
1:04:12
the right director on the right script.
1:04:14
They really can bring this together.
1:04:16
I think this is one of the scariest Doctor Who stories as
1:04:19
well. I love the psychological angle
1:04:22
of robophobia and how that's played.
1:04:26
I think the the idea of needles going in people's heads is a
1:04:30
very brutal image. In particular, I think the POV
1:04:35
shots of the robot strangling people, especially twos and her
1:04:39
quarters. We are put in the very
1:04:42
uncomfortable situation of being the robot in that scene,
1:04:45
murdering somebody and for a child that's a bit confronting.
1:04:49
And then little details like the robot, I realise he's wearing
1:04:53
marigolds and it blunts it a bit.
1:04:55
But the robot that's anxious as the needles going into his head,
1:04:58
his hands are sort of playing about the the hand that's
1:05:01
covered in like blood and gunk and things.
1:05:05
Yeah, scene for scene. I think this is really, really
1:05:07
scary stuff. And most importantly of all, I
1:05:11
think this has an incredible cast of actors in it.
1:05:14
And in episode one, the doctor and Lena are in about about 20%
1:05:19
of episode one. And it is held up by that
1:05:22
incredible cast. Pamela Salem Russell Hunter is
1:05:26
Manny's charismatic in this, isn't he?
1:05:31
The sequence in episode one where he brings them all
1:05:34
together, You know, tell me, Zelda, why do you hate me?
1:05:39
That scene of that whole, that could be a television show, that
1:05:43
cast, and it's a shame they all start getting bumped off a bit
1:05:46
at a time. Travis from Blake Sevens in
1:05:49
there as well, finally given a chance to, well, no, finally.
1:05:51
He ain't done it yet, but he's doing a bit of good acting
1:05:54
before he goes and hands it with David Maloney on Blake 7.
1:05:58
The only person who lets it down a little bit is, oh, I can't
1:06:02
remember her name now. Thank you.
1:06:04
What's the actress's name? It's Tanya.
1:06:07
Something I don't know. And it's only the bit where she
1:06:10
cries. You know, it's really terrible,
1:06:13
but I love it when she goes on the speaker going you know you
1:06:16
didn't. You know you've been disgusting,
1:06:19
man. Oh my God, glorious.
1:06:22
I think on Avery cats. My I don't know how many reasons
1:06:25
I've given now 500. I'm going to give one more, and
1:06:28
that is Chris Boucher's incredible world building of a
1:06:32
world that we never, ever see. And I brought this up previously
1:06:36
in Strictly Come Hamster. Usually it's about characters we
1:06:39
don't see. This time it's Cowdor City,
1:06:42
which is really impressively realized entirely through the
1:06:47
dialogue of these characters. And we never, ever go there.
1:06:50
But it's so impressively done that they managed to do a really
1:06:53
great audio series on the back of this and a lot of the leg
1:06:56
works done for them. I, I just think on every level
1:06:59
this, this is superb. It's brilliantly written, it's
1:07:02
excellently directed, the acting is incredible.
1:07:06
It's scary, it's funny. And then at the heart of it
1:07:10
you've got Tom Baker and Louise Jameson, who by all accounts
1:07:13
weren't getting on and you'll never tell because it's, it's, I
1:07:17
think for this and talents of Wenchuang, it's the best you'll
1:07:20
ever see a doctrine companion together.
1:07:22
So on every single level, this scores fantastic.
1:07:27
So let's go to the comments, lovely Joe Short says possibly
1:07:31
the best murder mystery Doctor whoever, Steve Miller.
1:07:34
Controversially not a fan. Steve Good murder mystery and
1:07:40
some nice elements, but something always fell off about
1:07:42
the underlying concept. David, Robots, What's off about
1:07:46
that? Exactly, David Gillespie, Pratt
1:07:48
says. Almost pure perfection.
1:07:49
A special mention for Russell Hunter as Jovanov giving a
1:07:52
fantastic performance. Going from mean spirited and
1:07:55
sardonic commander to ally and the death of D84 is
1:07:59
heartbreaking. Did I not mention the 84?
1:08:02
You can't mention everything. Please do not throw hands at me
1:08:06
Adrian Berry. Never tired of watching it.
1:08:08
Tense moments, creepy score comedy.
1:08:11
The robot with the doctor's hands.
1:08:12
Oh, that's hilarious, isn't it? Do not kill me when his V7 goes
1:08:16
to wake up to Paul's Robophobia is believable.
1:08:20
Michael Storm says another banger.
1:08:22
The robot design is iconic. The music is relentlessly creepy
1:08:25
throughout, the crew a well characterized and feel very much
1:08:28
like real people. Leela continues to be well
1:08:31
written, being portrayed as uneducated but not stupid.
1:08:34
Jason Thompson's feeling excited.
1:08:36
Fucking superb. He says the only weak Link is
1:08:40
Zelda. Yeah, but everything else,
1:08:42
sparkles, dialogue, performances, design all
1:08:45
combined to make something far more than the sum of its parts.
1:08:48
It could go on forever, please don't.
1:08:50
But it's the story my non fan union mates all got drawn into
1:08:54
and loved 25 years ago and for that reason alone it has to
1:08:57
stay. James Larks As for all the
1:09:00
ostentatious horror surrounding it, the subtle, creeping dread
1:09:03
hair is the scariest thing this season.
1:09:05
The moment when Toos, alone and completely vulnerable, realizes
1:09:09
the robots are picking off the crew gives me chills every time.
1:09:13
That she plays that brilliantly as well.
1:09:15
John Binsalia. A masterpiece.
1:09:17
Bryant takes what's already a superbly written script and
1:09:19
pushes it even higher with well considered, innovative direction
1:09:23
and a cracking cast. VOC POV shots are especially
1:09:26
creepy. Bonus points for Chubs
1:09:28
unintentionally funny screen. Oh someone do it please.
1:09:33
I don't think I could do it justice.
1:09:35
I. Don't.
1:09:35
Couldn't do it. Justice that.
1:09:38
Sounds like Tarzan Jr. Southall says.
1:09:43
The kind of story that would have solidly underperformed had
1:09:46
it been attempted 10 years earlier.
1:09:48
Yet the production team turned this year's My Standard Run
1:09:50
Around into the highlight of the season.
1:09:53
Paul Smy one of the all time greats.
1:09:55
Tom is simply wonderful in this story.
1:09:57
The robots are so well designed and every member of the cast is
1:10:00
on top form one of the greats. Luke Sims, Jenkins says near
1:10:03
perfect. Too bad they spoiled the killer
1:10:05
in episode 3. Otherwise, classic stuff, even
1:10:08
if Bryan Croucher is in it. Weird that fit with Dusk's face
1:10:13
on the screen. Agatha never did that.
1:10:16
Ian Winston designed classic robots, a cracking plot and
1:10:19
Leila and the Doctor firing on all cylinders.
1:10:21
One of the best adventures ever. Dan Hollingsworth says a
1:10:24
textbook Doctor Who classic, a who done it on an alien world in
1:10:27
a gloriously designed ship with Art Deco robots and well defined
1:10:31
sporting characters. It cannot fail.
1:10:33
Please do not throw hands at me. Glen Fitzgerald I wouldn't say
1:10:37
it's the best of all time, but it's certainly one of the best.
1:10:40
Paul Quinn says top three Baker beautifully acted and designed
1:10:44
and a rarity in this era that it's working with major sci-fi
1:10:47
text and authors rather than film adaptations of gothic
1:10:50
texts. And the title doesn't ruin the
1:10:52
mystery, it tells us the murder weapons rather than revealing
1:10:56
the identities of the murderer. Richard Cubit.
1:10:59
That's not a name I recognize. A murder mystery is always fun.
1:11:02
Hello, Richard, by the way. Especially when the victims are
1:11:05
entertainingly jerking. Jerking.
1:11:07
Entertainingly jerking. I did.
1:11:09
Well, I did leave that one in. I did.
1:11:11
I did wonder why he was alluding to you.
1:11:14
Gave it for me as well maybe. It's all the hand fiddling.
1:11:17
Robots and robophobia sequences are genuinely chilling, so it
1:11:21
has some of the best dialogue in the entire show.
1:11:23
You know, Rod, you're the classic example of the inverse
1:11:26
ratio between the size of the mouth and the size of the brain.
1:11:28
I was waiting for that. And best all round design work.
1:11:32
Brendan Jones says sumptuous with a terrific guest cast.
1:11:35
It's less about the mystery of who is killing and more about
1:11:38
the why. It's unsurprising that this
1:11:40
world's got a long extended life in multiple forms of spin off
1:11:44
media. Well look, I shut up. 15
1:11:46
minutes. Thank God this is the last
1:11:47
comment. Herald of Creation, the pick of
1:11:50
the series which should be shown to everyone who says that 70s
1:11:53
Doctor Who looks cheap. OK, so I am absolutely going to
1:11:58
put this one through as well and I want to just talk about three
1:12:00
members of the cast and crew. I'm not going for the obvious
1:12:03
ones because everyone else will talk about Michael Bryant and
1:12:06
Ken Sharp and the cast. So I want to pick on on three
1:12:09
other people. My first one is Dudley Simpson.
1:12:12
And look, whilst many people in the production team will
1:12:14
absolutely and quite rightly take plaudits for this, I think
1:12:18
Special Notes got to go for Dudley Simpson for this because
1:12:20
so much of the kind of dread and horror in the scenes with the
1:12:23
robots on their murderous spree is created by his brilliant
1:12:27
score. That heartbeat sound,
1:12:28
accompanied by the increasing loudness of the music is there
1:12:32
right from the first murder of Chubb, and it becomes quite a
1:12:35
motif throughout the four, four parts.
1:12:38
So the minute you hear that heartbeat that is more thrilling
1:12:42
and more indicative of that something is coming than any
1:12:45
kind of glowing eyes or any other form of horror, you just
1:12:48
know the robots are about to kill someone.
1:12:51
And just try watching any of those scenes in episode 3,
1:12:53
particularly the ones where the robot's trying to get into the
1:12:56
room to a tattoos. Imagine that without that music,
1:12:59
it just wouldn't have the same life.
1:13:02
You know, Dudley doesn't get talked about in the same way
1:13:04
that Murray Gold does or Sagan I canola.
1:13:07
But at this stage, I think he's a fundamental member of the
1:13:09
Hinchcliffe team. And I think his music is is part
1:13:12
of why, you know, a generation of kids were being chased behind
1:13:15
the sofa. So I want to put a call out for
1:13:17
Dudley. My second member is Gregory
1:13:20
Depalmay, who plays D 84. This is the man who single
1:13:25
handedly made us long for a robotic companion for a whole
1:13:28
year before K9 trundled onto screen.
1:13:31
I think he's got really quite a hard job.
1:13:33
I mean, Miles Fothergill, who plays SV7, has got the easier
1:13:36
job because he's got the calm, smooth voice, but it's the words
1:13:40
that he's saying that are terrifying.
1:13:42
So you combine that kind of Uzi charm with the scary dialogue
1:13:46
and that's what creates the menace.
1:13:47
But Gregory's got to convince us that he's a robot who initially
1:13:51
could be the mastermind behind it and pretends to be dumb.
1:13:54
And then we find out that actually he's a lovely, lovely
1:13:59
robot and he's helping Paul. And it's not until the Doctor
1:14:03
confronts him in episode 3 and Yvonne or we get to see that he
1:14:06
is sympathetic and he can be an ally for the Doctor.
1:14:09
And I think his voice acting really helps convince us.
1:14:12
It's only really the last two episodes that he's he has that
1:14:15
role and we see him for who he is and that voice.
1:14:18
I think on that acting work that he does really convince us that
1:14:22
by the time he commits self suicide at the end, I think we
1:14:25
really feel for him. So it's a great performance,
1:14:27
sure. How he would have fitted into
1:14:29
talos of Wing chi Ang, though, hadn't.
1:14:31
He well look what they do with Chameleon.
1:14:33
They just shoved him in a cupboard.
1:14:34
Didn't so. The way you sense that line.
1:14:36
What is it? We'll take the crystals from a
1:14:38
snowflake 1 by 1. Oh, bless them.
1:14:44
And the final third member of the cast I want to call out is,
1:14:47
of course, that really important member of the Hinchcliffe team,
1:14:50
Agatha Christie. So yeah, of course this has a
1:14:54
nice one. She's she was always there
1:14:57
rewriting. Of course this has links to
1:14:59
Isaac Asimov and Frank Herbert's Dune, but that's come on, this
1:15:03
is pure Agatha Christie, isn't it?
1:15:06
Half from Unicorn and the Wasp, which is obviously it's parody.
1:15:09
This is pure homage. Lucy already mentioned and then
1:15:13
there were none. This is absolutely.
1:15:14
And then there is none done for Doctor Who group of misfits
1:15:18
being isolated and picked off one for one.
1:15:21
We've got the red herrings of D84.
1:15:23
We've got loads of double Bluffs.
1:15:24
They even talked twice in the scripts about there being double
1:15:27
Bluffs. So you know it's all there.
1:15:29
And then of course, they bring them all together on the command
1:15:31
desk in episode 4. We don't reveal Dusk there
1:15:34
because we already saw his Dusk in the previous episode.
1:15:37
But yeah, I mean, it's brilliant, isn't it?
1:15:38
And I am just going to call out quickly one more.
1:15:41
I'm going to cheat and throw a fourth one.
1:15:42
And that got to call out Lou Jameson for a similar reason.
1:15:45
We were talking about Elizabeth Slayden before with her acting
1:15:48
in mask. Lou Jameson does something
1:15:51
really similar here and it's such a small bear, but I
1:15:54
absolutely adore it. It's an episode one when she
1:15:56
jumps on the sofa when she first goes into the and she's jumping
1:16:00
and bouncing around on the sofa. And do you think that's just
1:16:02
such a clever move because she's never seen a comfy sofa before,
1:16:06
so of course she'd do it. She's like a kid.
1:16:07
She's bouncing up and down on me, she thinks.
1:16:09
That sofa is at all comfortable. I mean, how are you supposed?
1:16:12
To sit on it, it's a little bit turned.
1:16:14
Up in many a many a shower. I know it did.
1:16:16
It was on. It was on salvage hunters,
1:16:19
restorers as well. Sofa.
1:16:22
Definitely turned around car fail as well.
1:16:24
And on. And it wasn't in Blake 7 too.
1:16:27
Ohh undoubtedly was in Blake. I failed.
1:16:29
I don't. You need an articulated spine to
1:16:31
sit on that thing. Watch, watch her.
1:16:34
She's drinking that water as well before she goes, oh, this
1:16:37
has no taste and he's putting the things in the water and
1:16:40
she's so I'll watch it. It's business all the time.
1:16:43
She is. And you know, I mean, she's
1:16:45
she's fantastic. This is only a second story as
1:16:47
well. And you're right, she's
1:16:48
struggling with Tom, but bloody hell, she's committed to what
1:16:51
she's doing. So yeah, absolutely this is
1:16:53
going through. I want to say one line to you
1:16:55
very quickly. Go on, you need to say the line
1:16:57
back. Otherwise it looks like I'm
1:16:58
being really rude. I'm used to that.
1:17:01
Go for it. Why don't you shut your mouth?
1:17:03
Oh. I can't remember the comeback.
1:17:07
Why don't you shut yours? That's all.
1:17:10
I just want to say it. I just want to say it.
1:17:14
You say it every day, Joe. True.
1:17:18
Now we better let our guests talk.
1:17:19
They've been waiting a while. Lucy, what do you think?
1:17:22
I'll say to your relationship you 2 tonight.
1:17:27
Lucy, what do you make of Robots of Death?
1:17:29
I really like it, I'm an absolute sucker for a whodunit
1:17:31
if it's done well and I guessed who the villain was because of
1:17:36
his trousers. Because ever since watching the
1:17:44
Miss Marple 450 from Paddington with Joan Hickson and my my
1:17:48
brother identifying the main suspect because of the turn UPS
1:17:51
on his trousers, you now look very closely at the trousers of
1:17:54
anybody who's in the whodunit. And I think again, it's you're
1:17:58
supposed to know ahead of them. It doesn't matter really that
1:18:01
what matters is that they don't know who who did it.
1:18:06
And yeah, I like it. I like that the characters are
1:18:09
so horrible because, but they are people, so you do kind of
1:18:13
care about them, even though they're really quite obnoxious
1:18:17
and unpleasant. You feel the peril of them.
1:18:19
It's interesting that that DH4 is so is so charming and so
1:18:23
lovely. And he's a robot, so he's not a
1:18:26
person, he's a machine, programmed machine.
1:18:30
But we feel an emotional attachment to it.
1:18:34
Although of, you know, obviously he's a person in the suit, but
1:18:36
he's supposed to be a machine. So you, yeah, it plays with your
1:18:40
emotions in that way. Yeah, I really like it.
1:18:42
Lucy, if I was to tell you that the world would end tomorrow,
1:18:46
would you merely believe my word?
1:18:50
Nah. Good call, good call.
1:18:56
Lee. Yeah.
1:18:58
Apologies for the count. By the way.
1:18:59
It's no shouting. You probably hear it only.
1:19:00
No, no, no, it's actually something all happening.
1:19:03
I. Think it might be your Scottish
1:19:04
accent? Did you say it's just shooting?
1:19:08
If she's 17, there's every possibility.
1:19:11
That's what I heard. That's what.
1:19:16
I OK robots of death. Well, I can only add to the
1:19:18
chorus of positivity. Oh my God.
1:19:23
I should warn you before starting these three points that
1:19:26
it does contain a joke that is really going to be the worst pun
1:19:29
you've ever heard in your life. Or it'll be the moment I might
1:19:32
drop and leave podcasting forever.
1:19:34
My host is rolled so it's probably not the worst one I've
1:19:37
ever had. Come on.
1:19:39
Let's see if you can spot it right.
1:19:40
It's point #1 great supporting cast.
1:19:42
They're obviously all impressed with the story and the script,
1:19:46
and everyone's going at this with Zealand relish.
1:19:49
There's not a cast iron Duff performance in here.
1:19:52
The Human Sand Miner staff are great.
1:19:54
They feel like an actual workplace.
1:19:56
You've got some needle there of some sly quips.
1:19:59
There's hints of personal relationships, there's bickering
1:20:02
and outright rebellion at one point.
1:20:04
You get become. Hamster.
1:20:09
You get mistrust and backstabbing when the
1:20:11
accusations start to fly. When the bodies are discovered,
1:20:14
they feel rounded and real, and as a result you can't help but
1:20:17
care about these characters. I mean, I don't know about you
1:20:21
3, but I really feared for Tush when she was attacked by SV7.
1:20:25
I really thought that was Salem's Lot.
1:20:30
Ohh do. Shall I just go?
1:20:33
Come on. Please.
1:20:36
Sorry. Was that it?
1:20:36
That was the joke, was it? Yeah.
1:20:39
Auctioneer then, wasn't it? Yeah.
1:20:42
Hang on, I might be busy on Thursday now, no.
1:20:45
I've let myself down. I've let the hamster down.
1:20:49
I've let the police box down again.
1:20:50
You've. Left the whole of podcasting
1:20:52
down to. Be fair, every time I watch this
1:20:54
story now I will think of that guy when he's got his hands
1:20:57
round her neck. And cringe inwardly.
1:21:02
OK, let's move on from that. Swift, Len and Shelby, boys and
1:21:05
girls, Let's go to point #2 this is more like it from the two
1:21:09
regulars. Tom and Louise seem much more
1:21:11
engaged with the production here than they did in The Face of
1:21:13
Evil. Despite the fractious, odd
1:21:16
screen relationship, they really feel like a team here.
1:21:18
And what a difference with Leela in this story compared to the
1:21:21
previous one. She's much more like the
1:21:23
character. Will come in over the next
1:21:25
series in a bit which is odd is this is also written by Chris
1:21:28
Boucher. So you have to ask what went
1:21:29
wrong with the face of evil as this is night and day.
1:21:32
I'm starting to get some inland of what you think of the face of
1:21:35
evil, you know? SPOILERS Leila is great in this.
1:21:40
I love Leila and she's excited by what's going on and she's
1:21:44
inquisitive, she's brave, she's ready for action at any given
1:21:47
point. She's not above being sarcastic
1:21:49
towards the 84, and she's not taking any shit from anybody,
1:21:53
kicking the commander right in the mining and giving one of
1:21:56
Leila's great lines. Try that again and I'll cripple
1:21:59
you. Don't mess with the and point
1:22:03
number 3IN praise of Robots of Death.
1:22:07
The resolution. What could be more Doctor Who
1:22:09
than undermining a mutinous rampage aboard the outer space
1:22:12
sand Miner than making the ringleader sound like Joe
1:22:15
Pasquale? Perfect.
1:22:19
And for once this year, right, the the episode 4, it really
1:22:23
feels tense and like the shit has hit the fan.
1:22:27
You know, it's not just a damp squib.
1:22:29
Well, I suppose that isn't that squib of an ending.
1:22:31
But yeah, no, it's a good episode 4.
1:22:35
Fabulous. So it clearly looks like robots
1:22:37
he's going through, as has everything so far.
1:22:40
OK. So not for want of trying though
1:22:42
Ros. No, and I've got a feeling that
1:22:44
my choice might not be universally loved, but I am
1:22:48
going to champion the Face of Evil, which is a bit dangerous
1:22:52
now after what? Lee's just sad, but I'm going to
1:22:54
go for it. I think Face of Evil is possibly
1:22:59
the best script of the season. I don't think it's the best
1:23:03
production or the best overall watch.
1:23:05
Oh, it's directed by Pennant Roberts.
1:23:07
Oh, exactly. Poor Pennant.
1:23:09
But I think the script itself is possibly the best script.
1:23:13
So I've picked out three lines or three bits of dialogue that I
1:23:17
think really work and encapsulate what I want to talk
1:23:19
about. So first one is in episode one
1:23:22
when the Doctor, I'm not going to do voices.
1:23:24
I'll pre warn you now. So when the doctor gets
1:23:27
surrounded by the seven team and the doctor holds up the Jelly
1:23:31
baby to the 17 Warrior said now drop your weapons or I'll kill
1:23:34
him with this deadly Jelly baby. The warrior says kill him.
1:23:38
Then the doctor says bite the top of the Jelly baby.
1:23:41
I don't take Ords from anyone. Take me to your leader.
1:23:44
I mean that is just pure unadulterated Tom Baker, isn't
1:23:48
it? It just shows how he settled
1:23:50
into the role, made it his own. This could have been an awkward
1:23:53
moment for Tom because he's lost Liz, who he worked so incredibly
1:23:57
well with. He's lost his battle to be
1:24:00
companionless and play it just by himself.
1:24:02
Plus, he's got Leela, which is a character he doesn't approve of.
1:24:06
But you know what? None of that shows here.
1:24:08
He's bold, he's confident, he's assured and he's inputting into
1:24:12
the script so that that I exchange that I just quoted and
1:24:16
ruined. It was actually originally
1:24:18
written in the script that the doctor was take a knife and hold
1:24:21
that to the warrior guard. And Tom said, Nope, not having
1:24:24
any of that. I'm going to use a Jelly baby,
1:24:26
which is far more a Doctor Who, isn't it?
1:24:27
And certainly far more Tom. So I think Tom is great in this.
1:24:32
We see him as the bohemian Trevor at the beginning.
1:24:34
I don't think any other classic Doctor could have kind of broken
1:24:37
the 4th wall quite in the way that Tom does.
1:24:40
I love it when he first meets Leela.
1:24:42
Straight away he takes her by the hand.
1:24:44
I'd forgotten that till I rewatch this twice.
1:24:46
In this story, episode one and episode 2, he actually takes
1:24:49
Leela by the hand and leads her away to safety, which is not
1:24:53
something you see with Leela later on in her run.
1:24:56
But then we see so many other facets of him.
1:24:58
He's angry, he's furious, Leela using Jane of Thorns, he's
1:25:02
slightly psychotic, the way he flicks that hoarder at the 17
1:25:05
guard until the little rubbery monster goes chewing the guards
1:25:10
shoulder and he has to go running off.
1:25:12
He's wrong footed by the Tesh and Zoan on.
1:25:14
In a fantastic Part 3 cliffhanger, he admits there was
1:25:18
probably his own egotism that led to him giving Zoan and his
1:25:22
personality. I'm not sure if that's a little
1:25:23
bit of a real life leaking into the script, but you know what?
1:25:27
Tom plays it with such ease and such confidence.
1:25:30
He probably believes he is the doctor at this stage and I think
1:25:33
we do too. My second exchange is between
1:25:37
Nevor, Neva and Andor, who's the leader of the seven team.
1:25:41
So Neva says Zoannan has promised us victory and Andor
1:25:44
says, no, he has promised you and you have promised us that
1:25:50
I'd love the 17th, that we're not dealing with this cliche
1:25:53
group of homogeneous grunts. We've got a nuanced group of
1:25:57
characters here whose belief in Zoana and a commitment to the
1:26:00
tribe kind of comes and goes depending on what they're
1:26:03
discussing and whether it's going to be politically,
1:26:05
politically expedient to them as an individual, whether it's
1:26:08
going to further their case. Again, as you were saying, Lucy
1:26:12
with deadly assassin. This is quite yes, Prime
1:26:15
Minister on an alien world. There's all this vying for
1:26:18
power. I love when Caleb and Neva are
1:26:20
debating whether the doctor's the evil One doctor treated like
1:26:24
it's a tennis match, watching the back and forth as they're
1:26:27
trying to kind of assert their authority and win the support of
1:26:29
the leader. I think it's great.
1:26:32
And they'd also, we see that they're not stupid because that
1:26:34
brilliant moment in part three when the doctor's in the Tesh
1:26:38
headquarters and he talks on the microphone to Neva via the
1:26:42
communicator and Neva responds and says yes, Doctor to him.
1:26:46
So he knows it's the Doctor. He knows it's not Zoannan
1:26:49
speaking. I just think that's really
1:26:51
clever. Again, Boucher is giving his
1:26:53
characters intellect and intelligence.
1:26:56
And then my third bit, my third bit of dialogue is someone and
1:27:00
at the end where they're talking about what the setup of the
1:27:02
premises and Joanna says I gave them independent strength,
1:27:05
boldness and courage in one tribe, self denial, control,
1:27:09
telepathy in the other. And the doctor says yes and
1:27:12
hostility and conflict to speed up the process until you were
1:27:15
ready to select the best of both.
1:27:17
I think that just shows what a clever, intelligent, mature
1:27:20
script this is. The supercomputer that's been
1:27:22
driven schizophrenia by the introduction of the Doctor's
1:27:25
mind has created. It's the societal division.
1:27:28
And it just shows the Doctor Who is now working on such a more
1:27:31
mature level. Mixed up with all the brilliant
1:27:34
imagery of the Doctor's face, the stone carving, the face
1:27:37
coming out in the jungle, the imagery in Zoannan's
1:27:40
headquarters, you got an exemplary cast, great forest,
1:27:45
plus some lovely hunky men. So yeah, what is not to love
1:27:48
about the face of evil of Thomas?
1:27:53
Oh, he's a twink. He did nothing to him, OK?
1:27:58
Those eyes, I'll give it another Those eyes just just stare into
1:28:01
those eyes. Not around the eyes, just look
1:28:03
into the eyes. I'll stick with our Brian
1:28:07
Croucher from Robles of Death. So.
1:28:11
Let's go to the Commons. Face of Evil Mikey Smith says
1:28:14
the big reveal and the child's voice are rare psychedelic plot
1:28:17
pivots. All done slow and turgid, and
1:28:21
the only thing of note is Leela's arrival.
1:28:24
Oh, Paul Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul.
1:28:26
No, Joe Short says. Leela is one of the best
1:28:29
companions and Louise is one of the best actors ever to be in
1:28:31
who faces great. Although the all male tribe
1:28:35
Leela leaves will surely die out soon, they might they might have
1:28:38
a bit of fun in them in the interim.
1:28:41
Steve Miller Nice introduction to Leela and seeing the Doctor
1:28:44
confront his mistakes for once. Love the concepts behind divided
1:28:48
societies and false gods. Luke Sims, Jenkins says,
1:28:51
introduces Leela, but alone makes it GOAT status.
1:28:54
A great cast, a fleshed out world.
1:28:56
And have I mentioned Leela? She's the fucking best.
1:28:59
He's a horny bugger. He is Ian Winserton.
1:29:01
Love it. Studio bound Flash Gordonness
1:29:03
though the story isn't all that. What is great though is Leela
1:29:07
simultaneously from far future but also primitive so requires
1:29:10
audience friendly explanation. Bricks the Doctor's pomposity
1:29:14
too. And of course, in Louise Jameson
1:29:16
we have one of the best actors the show has ever seen.
1:29:19
David Gillespie, Pratt says. Am I in a minority liking this?
1:29:22
No, David, you're not. Voucher's debut is an
1:29:24
intelligent script full of ideas.
1:29:26
The jungle on film works incredibly well, and the
1:29:28
Cliffhanger's Path 3 is wonderful.
1:29:31
Daniel Knight Some clever ideas about faith and belief without
1:29:33
it seeming to be offensive. Moffitt, take note.
1:29:36
Yes, Chris Voucher's script is smart.
1:29:39
Louise Jamison makes an immediate impression as Leela,
1:29:42
but the jungle set is a bit lacking.
1:29:44
Darren Litt Randall says an interesting concept, turgidly
1:29:46
realized some awful set design and bland direction from Pennant
1:29:50
Roberts first half is better than the 2nd.
1:29:53
Jack Coyer. This story and it's writer get
1:29:55
unfairly forgotten amongst some of the heavy hitters around
1:29:57
them. Immediately establishing what
1:29:59
makes Leela so special and engaging in performance from
1:30:02
Tom. The Doctor deals with prior
1:30:04
mistakes. John Bensalis has intelligently
1:30:07
plotted and written this unsung gem is something of an anomaly
1:30:10
in a horror based season. Well drawn characters,
1:30:13
especially Louise who's an instant hit.
1:30:15
That disembodied shouty Tom Bakehead in part 4 is really
1:30:18
funny though. They are now thought massively
1:30:21
underrated. The ideas are terrific, the
1:30:23
dialogue and characterization even of the tesh is absolutely
1:30:27
on point, and the realizes and the realization of all this on
1:30:32
the budget we're talking about is far better than it deserved
1:30:35
to be. Michael Storm says the premise
1:30:37
is intriguing, building on some very pulpy tropes and elevating
1:30:40
them further. There's nuance, debate about
1:30:42
faith and science, a great supporting cast, and the jungle
1:30:45
looks great. Episode 3 has one of the
1:30:47
defining cliffhangers of the era.
1:30:50
Anthony Carroll. It's the only story here I don't
1:30:52
really dig, but it's steady horde order on naff.
1:30:57
Yeah, he thinks the horder on naff, Jason Thompson says, gives
1:31:01
us Leela has a gorgeous jungle set, and that part one
1:31:04
cliffhanger is a belter, but the rest is poorly acted tripe with
1:31:08
jarring switches between film and video and a massive shift
1:31:11
from jump sumptuous jungle to cheap 1970s sci-fi corridors.
1:31:16
Barty and Parsons all very competent but doesn't quite
1:31:18
work, cracking cliffhangers. And Leela is amazing from the
1:31:21
start. Louise is the best actress ever
1:31:24
to play a companion. Big Orange Michael.
1:31:26
This one is subversively brilliant in its way.
1:31:28
Like mask, it's overlooked by what surrounds it.
1:31:31
Would be the best in many other seasons.
1:31:33
Keep it. Not sure about that
1:31:34
complexicated cookie. I adore this one.
1:31:37
It's always great when we get a story where the doctor has
1:31:40
previous involvement, and they work best when the previous
1:31:42
involvement has actually led to the problem at hand.
1:31:46
Very underrated. So Joe Face of evil, underrated.
1:31:51
Overrated. I think it's very dull indeed,
1:31:54
I'm afraid. And I think everything you've
1:31:55
said about this story is true. I think it has a a dense,
1:31:59
substantial and involving script, but it's what hits the
1:32:03
screen is what's important. Like I shouldn't have to go
1:32:07
looking to find things to make this entertaining because what
1:32:10
hits the screen is very boring indeed.
1:32:14
It's very planet Zoggy. It looks very planet Zoggy as
1:32:17
well. What is Jason Thompson talking
1:32:18
about? This lush jungle that hits the
1:32:21
screen? Jason.
1:32:22
Go and watch Creature from the Pit and you'll see a lush
1:32:24
jungle. This is just a load of Hoover
1:32:26
attachments hanging from the lighting grid.
1:32:28
It looks terrible. Pennant Roberts, I think, is
1:32:32
mostly to blame for this story being as tedious as it is.
1:32:36
It feels paceless and it feels cheap, and I find it quite
1:32:40
difficult to watch. The flat direction has lots of
1:32:43
long language shots of very dull sets.
1:32:46
The test sets in particular. So the test, Yeah, They're the
1:32:49
technicians, aren't they? Yes.
1:32:50
I don't even remember. None of this impacts my brain.
1:32:54
And the action is never when you and me talked about this on the
1:32:57
pirate planet, it's never Pennant Robber's strong point.
1:33:00
So when you can't prolong scenes of people firing space guns at
1:33:03
each other in very dull sense, he.
1:33:06
Just can't do it, can he? It's.
1:33:07
Not pleasing on the eye, no. And you've got poor laser
1:33:10
effects there and just no pace whatsoever.
1:33:12
I don't think there's any pace to this story at all, which
1:33:15
doesn't help. You're right.
1:33:17
I think it is well cast and I think it is well characterized.
1:33:22
So I don't understand why none of these characters stay in my
1:33:24
head. You said Andor earlier, and I
1:33:26
was thinking of that Star Wars show.
1:33:28
I didn't have a clue you were talking about if I was, and I
1:33:31
can't neither. I could just about remember
1:33:32
because he's got that weird cricket glove on his head.
1:33:35
That's all I really remember. I don't remember any of these
1:33:38
people. He does it again in Robots of
1:33:40
Death, and I can literally tell you the back stories of most of
1:33:43
those characters. So yeah, I'm, I'm not sure what
1:33:45
doesn't work here, but it they didn't come across as being
1:33:49
especially memorable to me. And the second-half of the
1:33:53
story, Jason's right there. All of that stuff on those tests
1:33:57
is so boring. Like, I do perk up a little bit
1:34:00
in that cliffhanger with all of his faces coming at me.
1:34:03
But mostly because I'm like, what the Hell's going on, You
1:34:06
know? And it is a visually interest in
1:34:09
image for for a second. But, you know, you know, the bit
1:34:12
where they're all sort of being taken over by as I went on and
1:34:16
walking around with like, knives like this.
1:34:18
And oh, God, it's all so boring. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't work for
1:34:24
me if I I can see that they're playing with interesting ideas
1:34:28
here. The idea of the size society
1:34:30
that is the savages one side and the technicians the other, the
1:34:35
brilliant bit where the gong goes into the thing.
1:34:37
You realize it's the survey ship.
1:34:39
They have really interesting ideas at play here.
1:34:41
They just don't get realized in a way that tickles my testicles.
1:34:46
I think I think it's great script but I I can't.
1:34:53
The weakest production of the year by by some degree.
1:34:56
And I interestingly on the behind the sofas, Philip
1:34:59
Hinschcliffe says this is one of his favorite stories.
1:35:01
So I don't know how on point he is.
1:35:03
I'm kind of pleased that you had Robert Holmes there for his run
1:35:07
going. No, no, no, no.
1:35:08
It'll be, you know, a brain in a jar or a creature made out of
1:35:12
like bits from a butcher's shop. I think so, because I think we
1:35:14
would have got a lot of this if, if Hinchcliff had or the mask of
1:35:18
man drag around. It would have been a very dull
1:35:20
sort of. But then you got Holmes in the
1:35:22
background going, no, let's scare the fuck out of the kids
1:35:24
and we'll make it really funny as well.
1:35:26
You know, unfortunately, he did neither of those things here.
1:35:30
Anyway, over to the guests. Lee Well, before I get into my
1:35:34
points, I think a little bit of inside the baseball for the
1:35:37
listeners of Strictly Cum Hamster.
1:35:39
We're recording this on the 1st of July and I'm a.
1:35:42
Insider Secrets I'm. Getting the game away here, I
1:35:46
assume that much like as in Edinburgh just now where you
1:35:49
three are, it's a relatively nice sunny evening outside.
1:35:52
Not bad. Mostly.
1:35:54
Yeah, it's pissing down with rain, actually.
1:35:56
Oh. Well, that's convenient,
1:35:58
Rodford, because here comes a nice big dark Scottish cloud to
1:36:01
rain in your face of evil. How many points have I got
1:36:07
against this? A lot.
1:36:08
So I had to condense it down to free.
1:36:09
Oh. Go on.
1:36:10
Here's the free I've gone with point number one, that Leela's
1:36:14
character is oddly watered down in a story, which is odd.
1:36:17
Is this a or debut? So you'd think her creator would
1:36:19
want to give her a strong debut story.
1:36:22
And B, she's much more rounded and fleshed out as a character
1:36:25
than the next story, which is written by the same author.
1:36:29
Bit strange #2 there's a kernel of a good story here.
1:36:32
There's previous involvement in the fears of a planet and it's
1:36:35
people coming back to bite them further down the line and
1:36:38
putting the current inhabitants of the planet in danger.
1:36:41
However all that is lost is I never really feels like there's
1:36:43
any sense of threat. Although Zwanon is truly out of
1:36:46
control, it feels quite pedestrian and flat in the
1:36:49
directions and direction and performances.
1:36:52
Louise tries her best for what she's been given and has some
1:36:55
good moments, but Tom never really feels engaged with it and
1:36:58
it rarely feels as if he's getting out of second gear.
1:37:02
Final point, Leela's possession seen as overall too quickly and
1:37:06
loses all it's sense of threat and drama.
1:37:09
It should have been one of the high points of that episode.
1:37:12
Even a doctor's new friend is susceptible to the powers of his
1:37:15
own Anon and turns against them. But it's over in seconds.
1:37:18
I mean, fair play at the Louise. She does her best with it by
1:37:20
silently mounting. Sorry Cat coming in now.
1:37:24
Does her best, of course. She silently mounts Cat coming
1:37:26
in. I don't remember that, but yeah.
1:37:29
That's in the outtakes, all right.
1:37:31
She does her best by silently moving, Destroy you and be free
1:37:34
as she bears down to the doctor, which is more creepy than had
1:37:37
she been chanting it. But the spell was broken almost
1:37:40
instantly and off we go to the next thing.
1:37:42
A wasted opportunity there. Not a lot to say in favour of
1:37:46
Face of Evil. There are some good points, but
1:37:49
something's going to give at some point.
1:37:50
We can't put everything through. So Face of Evil then?
1:37:54
Yes, once gone. Lucy, I'm sorry your vote is
1:37:58
superfluous, but we absolutely want to hear what you've got to
1:38:00
say. That's fine.
1:38:03
I, I'm sort of it's one where I'm kind of on the fence about
1:38:06
it. I, I like it.
1:38:07
I like the I I it's the one where I feel that the concept
1:38:12
kind of out overpowers the story a little bit.
1:38:16
The the idea of the doctor coming back to face a problem
1:38:21
that he created in the past is an interesting one, but we never
1:38:25
saw him create the problem. It's all talk.
1:38:29
It's all, you know, each talking about what happened, what
1:38:32
happened, this happened and then this happened and this and, and
1:38:34
I think that the whole, the idea you've got the doctor imprinting
1:38:38
his identity on the computer, which made the computer go
1:38:41
berserk. And then the computer decided to
1:38:44
do a eugenics experiment on the remaining members of the crew,
1:38:49
all but one of whom appeared to be male.
1:38:55
Are we talking some kind of path in the Genesis here or what?
1:39:01
I don't want to be cancelled, but there's one very exhausted
1:39:04
woman in the 17. Well, you know, it's just that
1:39:09
you don't get AI mean. I understand that tribal in in
1:39:13
the he's in the righteous view of the tribe.
1:39:15
The tribal elders will probably be male, but we've got Leela and
1:39:20
we've got nobody else. Lucy, this is coming on the back
1:39:23
of the deadly assassin that has no women in it at all apart from
1:39:27
the woman that does the voice over at the start.
1:39:30
True, but I think if you're talking about two, I mean that
1:39:34
you've got the upper levels of Gallifrey who are very dull and
1:39:36
very present company accepted pale.
1:39:41
It doesn't feel like in this you've got two, you've got two,
1:39:44
what are supposed to be two self-sustaining societies.
1:39:48
And depending on what's happening, there's no visible
1:39:52
means of that. You know, there's no children.
1:39:54
There's no, for instance, in like in Kinder where you've got
1:39:57
the kids and you've got a sense of the families and things.
1:40:02
But I like, I like Leela the way she starts off.
1:40:05
I like her, her nerve and her wanting to sort of say the
1:40:09
awkward things that the others don't want her to say.
1:40:11
I like the creepy little priest bloke.
1:40:15
I think he does that very well. The other thing that that.
1:40:20
But then again, on the other hand, the other thing that
1:40:22
bothered me slightly was the fact that all the technological
1:40:25
stuff looks new. I know that the space corridors
1:40:29
look like 1970s space corridors. It was the 1970s.
1:40:33
That's what space corridors look like in the 1970s.
1:40:35
But like it was when you put the hat on with the glove on it, I
1:40:38
thought it doesn't look like what hundreds of years have
1:40:43
passed in the meantime that they've entirely forgotten as
1:40:47
they were and the language has changed and they're all wearing
1:40:49
skins now. And it just that kind of, I
1:40:53
don't know, it just it's parts of it I really like and parts of
1:40:57
it I find quite unsatisfying. So it's probably good that I
1:41:00
don't have the deciding vote because I can't decide.
1:41:04
You're right, though. I mean, none of these things
1:41:06
look like ancient artifacts at all, do they?
1:41:09
They're like brand spanking, yeah.
1:41:12
But the thing, the thing that the machine that he uses to cure
1:41:16
Lila, it works. Yeah.
1:41:19
Although I would buy your argument about space corridors
1:41:22
in the 1970s, but we've just had the deadly assassin and we're
1:41:24
about to have rebels to death and the space corridors in those
1:41:27
two stories look amazing. It's a lack of imagination on
1:41:31
the designer's part and a lack of skill on Pennant Roberts part
1:41:34
there. And he does make, it's just one
1:41:36
triangle, isn't it? And he does make it so obvious
1:41:39
it's just one triangle that they're going round and round
1:41:42
and round the. Bit that I did like and also
1:41:45
there's the the sort of the facial the make up of the test
1:41:47
as well is they look much more because the obviously the seven
1:41:53
team don't really look like big talking tribes persons and they
1:41:58
but you can kind of buy into that because they've been there
1:42:02
are other television programs where you see people pretending
1:42:04
to be things that they aren't in that kind of vein.
1:42:07
When you see the test, they're so weird that it kind of took me
1:42:12
out of it a bit because there's such a contrast and they're
1:42:16
these people in weird sort of double it and hoes with funny
1:42:18
hats and green faces. But I did like the bit where one
1:42:21
of them comes in screaming and the other one says control
1:42:24
yourself. It's like.
1:42:25
You're at the gates. What are you going to?
1:42:26
Do we do we do head into that sort of Shakespearean acting at
1:42:30
one point? That when she goes, do not beg
1:42:32
for me, Father. I was like, oh God, is this
1:42:35
really where we're starting with this story?
1:42:37
I don't mind that so much. It was just, it was just the
1:42:39
contrast was was so different. It was like being in a
1:42:43
different. But yeah, I can't make my mind
1:42:45
up so. I do love that.
1:42:46
The fella or the Cricket Club? What's his name again?
1:42:49
Neva. When he's going around going
1:42:53
like some crazy evangelist, that was quite funny.
1:42:56
Yeah, I think he does. It's quite fun as well.
1:42:59
I think he does that sort of unreliable menace quite well
1:43:04
because you it becomes apparent fairly quickly that he is
1:43:07
actually in it for himself, although obviously he's he's
1:43:10
God, quote UN quote does talk to him.
1:43:13
He's but at the end he wants to destroy it because he thinks
1:43:17
it's betrayed him. So he's he's he's clearly also
1:43:20
in it for himself as well As for he's good do.
1:43:23
You know, I'm not sure as well. So I know we're moving on, but
1:43:26
I'm not sure that Tom Baker's confidence helps here either,
1:43:30
because he waltzes through this story and doesn't break a sweat.
1:43:33
And when we don't have an identifiable companion to be
1:43:37
afraid, because Leila's pretty tough as well, it's like, well,
1:43:41
but who's in danger here? Who's who's affected by?
1:43:43
Any of this, you never really get an impression at any point
1:43:45
and there's many stakes really. Isn't it just really it seems
1:43:48
like Tom on autopilot and like you see?
1:43:50
Like you do in the next one. So in the next one, there's lots
1:43:53
of other characters that we care about around that are being
1:43:55
affected by the story anyway. So Face of Evil is the first to
1:43:59
fall. So we are left with two
1:44:02
diametrically opposed stories. If you believe fandom by Hey,
1:44:06
we're here to rock the boat. So we've got Hand of Fear and
1:44:09
the towns of Wyang Chang Lucy. Take your pick of the final two.
1:44:13
OK, in that case, I'm going to defend the Hand of Fear.
1:44:16
If it needs defending, it's obviously the last adventure in
1:44:22
this time period for our Sarah Jane, and it's a very moving
1:44:27
departure. I'm starting at the end,
1:44:28
obviously. Why wouldn't I?
1:44:30
It's a very moving departure because of the way that it's
1:44:33
acted and because it's convincing.
1:44:35
You can believe that that those two characters would indeed say
1:44:39
goodbye to each other in that way because it's too much.
1:44:42
It's too important for them to do it, to be serious about it.
1:44:46
They have to just kind of brush it off or they won't get through
1:44:49
it, I think. I think that the the creepy hand
1:44:53
is actually really creepy and it shows that you don't, if you can
1:44:59
have a sort of an effect that that works well, it doesn't need
1:45:04
to be. I mean, I'm sure it was
1:45:05
complicated to do, but it looks like a hand is creepy.
1:45:09
Also, there's as a child of the 70s and 80s, the threat of
1:45:14
nuclear, the explosion was ever present in the 70s and 80s.
1:45:21
And that was the big, that was the big bad effectively of a lot
1:45:25
of television and films. And there would be nuclear
1:45:29
explosion. There will be nuclear accidents.
1:45:31
There will be. And, and so that makes it in the
1:45:35
episodes that are in the power station.
1:45:37
It grounds it in reality. So you've got this creepy hand
1:45:40
thing that's doing it's creepy alien business.
1:45:42
You've got members of the staff being possessed, you've got
1:45:45
Sarah Jane being possessed. But what really grounds it for
1:45:49
me is when the, the professor calls home and tells his family
1:45:54
that he might not be back. And it's so convincing and
1:45:59
moving that you, it, it really puts it into reality.
1:46:04
You know, it's all mad and wacky and no aliens and stuff, but
1:46:08
that, that makes the threat real.
1:46:11
I'm also all for fight scenes where people get hit on the head
1:46:14
with a giant spanner. I mean, what's not to like?
1:46:18
I've got to watch you closely from now.
1:46:20
Absolutely. I think, I think Eldrad works
1:46:23
well, particularly in their female form and the idea of the
1:46:28
alien, the alien who is clearly unreliable and quite evil
1:46:33
because of what they've done already.
1:46:36
But they've chosen that form because their, their records
1:46:41
have shown that that's they judge that to be the most that
1:46:45
people will will be most attracted to that form.
1:46:47
They'll trust it if it's, if it's female and the idea of sort
1:46:51
of the, the kind of swindling alien.
1:46:53
Again, the actress who I I watched on I think it was the
1:46:59
time that Utopia was online as well as in person.
1:47:04
The actress gave a talk about it and said that she actually was
1:47:07
almost crushed by the giant stone thing and had to scream
1:47:13
the stop word very quickly. And she actually said and I
1:47:16
thought, well, I've never really liked my nose perhaps.
1:47:19
And then and then she decided that actually, no, that wasn't
1:47:22
that wasn't something that she wanted to try out after all.
1:47:25
So but yeah, it was all that all nearly went very hardly wrong.
1:47:28
And I've, I've seen, I think sort of some criticism of the
1:47:31
planet the, but I actually don't mind it.
1:47:35
I mean, it's dark, it's full of rocks.
1:47:37
There's a bit of peril there. And really the, the sort of the
1:47:42
important stuff has happened beforehand.
1:47:45
This is the final realization that Eldrad isn't who they made
1:47:49
out they were. And then you get Sarah finally
1:47:53
having had enough of absolutely everything and saying, no, this
1:47:57
has to stop now. And that's the end.
1:48:00
So I like it and I want to put it through.
1:48:02
The the the planet model work on film looks gorgeous with the
1:48:07
Dome and all the snow going through it.
1:48:10
I think it's well realised. Let's go to the comments.
1:48:13
Andrew Kearney says it's all over the place, but ultimately
1:48:16
it's a story about the friendship of the Doctor and
1:48:18
Sarah. Plus Tom and Liz are gorgeous
1:48:20
together. Daft.
1:48:22
Daft as it is, I'd rather love it for that.
1:48:25
Jr. S for one of those stories that
1:48:27
really stuck in the memory as a child, although mostly for the
1:48:29
second episode and it's creepy illusions to countless
1:48:32
disembodied hand horror films. What a sentence.
1:48:37
And Glenn Houston is amazing. Jacoia says runs out of steam,
1:48:41
but that's not what we're here for.
1:48:42
Listen Tom have great chemistry. So much so that they can't give
1:48:45
the Doctor another companion straight away.
1:48:48
The hand is a nice effect and Female Ideal Drug is great, but
1:48:51
it's a sparse production. This is really telling, Martin
1:48:55
Parsons. I always enjoy it more than I
1:48:57
think I'm going to. That's because you've been
1:48:59
listening to reviews all those years.
1:49:01
It's totally a bit weird but has so many excellent moments.
1:49:04
The I worry about you scene is glorious.
1:49:08
Oh, voice glorious. I worry about you all that
1:49:12
Liverpudlian love. Obviously, Sarah's leaving scene
1:49:15
could break the heart of a statue.
1:49:17
Ian Winston says probably the Bristol Boys finest hour and one
1:49:20
of my favourites. Bit of a quick exit for Sarah
1:49:23
though. Thank God we got more of her.
1:49:25
James Lark If ever a story demonstrated the era's
1:49:28
weaknesses around final episodes, it's this.
1:49:30
But thankfully the story ends not with a pound shot, Brian
1:49:33
Blessed tripping over a scarf, but with the leaving scene to
1:49:36
end all leaving scenes. Make orange, Michael says.
1:49:39
The Bristol Boys give us a verbal hook story that would be
1:49:42
the best story of several other seasons.
1:49:44
I don't love it, but I still respect it a great deal.
1:49:48
Darren lit roundels in terms of direction, Lenny Holy flaming
1:49:52
cow Mane does a good job and the calves are solid.
1:49:56
Judith Paris stands out until the shouty man turns out.
1:49:59
As a plot, it's very one, though only memorable for Sarah's
1:50:02
departure. Jason Thompson, good old Jason,
1:50:05
needs to straighten with the facts.
1:50:06
Over the years, people have pointed out the absurdity of
1:50:09
sheltering from a nuclear blast behind a Jeep.
1:50:12
But blowing up a nuclear reactor doesn't cause a nuclear
1:50:16
explosion because the design doesn't allow it.
1:50:19
It would be bad. Well, I think it probably would.
1:50:21
Yeah, but not like that. Jesus, thank God he said that.
1:50:24
Because when Lucy mentioned that earlier, I was going to say, was
1:50:27
the advice on those videos that you hide behind a Jeep?
1:50:30
No it. Was hide hide her under a bridge
1:50:33
or under the stairs I think. And take a door off and proper
1:50:36
door over you to. Yes, absolutely.
1:50:38
Far, far more safe. Yeah, that's, that's going to,
1:50:41
you know, you're going to do that in 2 minutes.
1:50:43
You know what what? What can you tell the population
1:50:45
what that isn't? You're all going to die
1:50:47
horribly, some of you more slowly than others.
1:50:51
What's that noise? Yeah, it's a kind of a morale
1:50:54
crusher. That really isn't it.
1:50:56
Yeah, it is. So they had to, they had to spin
1:50:57
it somehow, and that's how they span it.
1:50:59
Brendan Jones says it's great, but in a season of greats and
1:51:04
has It's great, but it's in a season of greats and has the
1:51:07
usual Baker mark invariant focus.
1:51:09
Liz Vaden gets her wish of not being married off and killing
1:51:12
Sarah Jane, as she suggested, would have been a huge mistake.
1:51:16
Absolutely. Complexicated Cookie says maybe
1:51:19
the weakest of the season, but it's a high bar.
1:51:21
Liz gets something to really get her teeth into for a send off
1:51:24
and is of course brilliant as a result.
1:51:27
Tom takes a little bit of a back seat.
1:51:29
Both versions of Eldrad are great and that final scene is an
1:51:31
all time classic. Plus it ends with a dog.
1:51:35
Daniel Knight, a bit clunky but Liz gets to be the baddie.
1:51:38
As for Eldrad, I quite like her, but I can't stand him and the
1:51:42
last episode is a retread of Pyramids and Mars.
1:51:45
The final scene brings a tear to the eye as well as a smile.
1:51:48
Until we meet again, Sarah. Oh.
1:51:50
Don't say that or you'll start me off Luke Sims, Jenkins says.
1:51:54
What photos did Bob and Dave have on people to keep getting
1:51:57
gigs? Half their half their scripts
1:52:00
are just one line repeated. Eldrad must live.
1:52:04
Paul Dunn first two episodes are superb.
1:52:07
As soon as Eldrad arrives, the Boredom Express has pulled into
1:52:11
the station. Tom Newsome says Judith Paris
1:52:14
really helps this one and the ultra modern setting adds the
1:52:16
eeriness of Sarah being possessed at the start.
1:52:19
The hand is the best special effect ever in Doctor Who.
1:52:22
Thank goodness they rewrote the final scenes.
1:52:25
Mad Paddington? Who are you?
1:52:27
Mad Paddington, The Hand of Fear is ace, and Lady Eldrad is the
1:52:31
sexiest classic. Who monster Tom Baker agrees.
1:52:35
And he's on that sofa and he's going, oh.
1:52:36
God, yeah, Judith. Paris Sarah's exit is too
1:52:42
abrupt. Gorgeous.
1:52:43
And finally Dan N says the usual Bristol boys mix of the good,
1:52:47
bad and indifferent and it doesn't really give Sarah Jane
1:52:49
the send off she deserved. Lay yes.
1:52:54
Are you sharing the hand of fear?
1:52:55
Love? Well, as a general rule of
1:52:58
thumb, folks, I would not dare disagree with Lucy McCall.
1:53:01
And ladies and gentlemen, I ain't about starting out.
1:53:06
He's learning his lesson. The hand of fear is got to go
1:53:12
through. I'm going to probably echo quite
1:53:14
a lot of the points that Lucy made because that's basically
1:53:18
what I've got in my notes. So first, first notes, let's
1:53:21
call that going nuclear. So there's some great location
1:53:25
work going on in this story that's all to the story's
1:53:27
benefit for all. That's a staple and indeed a
1:53:30
cliche of Doctor Who locations. Yes, there is a quarry, but it's
1:53:34
used sparingly and effectively, helped along by Lenny means
1:53:37
direction. There's short, snappy scenes of
1:53:40
things going on going on in and around the quarry.
1:53:43
There's some near seamless use of stock footage when that
1:53:45
explosion happens. But 1,000,000 miles away from
1:53:48
the church and the demons here, Lenny keeps the pace up.
1:53:52
We're only here for as long as it takes to get the story going.
1:53:54
But all the pieces work. And then there's a nuclear
1:53:57
reactor plant. What a choice of location.
1:54:00
It gives the story a huge sense of scale, of fast, cavernous
1:54:05
interior that makes the story feel big.
1:54:08
It's put to perfect use by Lenny.
1:54:10
I mean, here we've got a wide angle shots, low angle shots,
1:54:13
shots from all angles as all well let it gives a sense of
1:54:16
scale and high stakes. There's a scene where Carter
1:54:19
attacks the doctor with the rubber spanner on the stairs,
1:54:23
but that's shot in such a way that it takes in the sheer
1:54:25
height that they're at. So it helps to add a bit of
1:54:27
jeopardy to what could otherwise have been a very flat scene.
1:54:31
It's also a rare treat and a novelty to see Tom Baker in a
1:54:34
contemporary air saying I wish we'd had a bit more of that
1:54:38
because we literally get that on a handful of occasions and has
1:54:40
run and there's a sheer ordinance of it as well.
1:54:44
Those exterior scenes outside the nuclear power plant, I've
1:54:47
got a real wet Wednesday afternoon fuel to them which
1:54:51
helps ground the story even more.
1:54:54
So fair enough. The last episode sort of reels
1:54:56
against that somewhat and it does look a bit cheap in places
1:54:59
and does let the site down slightly, but that's unavoidable
1:55:03
because they couldn't realise an alien planet like that on
1:55:05
location properly. So to summarize the first point,
1:55:09
fantastic location work coupled with some classy direction
1:55:13
peppered with action sequences. A use of stock footage clearly
1:55:16
selected with care so that it fits and seams like to the
1:55:19
action taking place. It all looks great and
1:55:22
convincingly immerses you in this story.
1:55:24
Bravo. Excellent, Joe.
1:55:30
Yeah. Do you know what?
1:55:31
This is a story I'm told isn't very great surrounded by two
1:55:34
stories that I'm told are really great.
1:55:37
And I didn't find those two stories really great, but I
1:55:39
really thoroughly enjoyed this one.
1:55:43
And I'm not entirely sure why because it's very unfocused.
1:55:46
This story, it starts off as like an early episode of
1:55:48
Casualty with something going hideously wrong and someone
1:55:51
ended up in and then it goes to the nuclear and it's all sort of
1:55:54
like a horror up with the hand on the move.
1:55:57
And then it's sort of like a character drama and like Lucy
1:56:00
said, fear of nuclear winter. And then it's full on planet and
1:56:05
Zog again and we're doing sci-fi.
1:56:07
But for once, I think Lenny Mayne is absolutely on the ball.
1:56:12
I really dismissed his direction of the Three Doctors, didn't I?
1:56:15
Or we didn't. You certainly did.
1:56:17
Actually, I do think his direction of Curse of Peloton is
1:56:19
pretty good. So he's sort of variable from
1:56:21
story to story, but this is his best and everything Lee said
1:56:24
there, I kind of got notes about a lot of those bits.
1:56:27
All of that location work, how he shoots that the scenes in the
1:56:31
quarry where he's looking down on the and then underneath with
1:56:35
the stone coming up just. Yeah, the sense of scale and the
1:56:38
sense of pace of it, It's amazing.
1:56:40
There's a there's a very strange shot down in the the well, the
1:56:44
the car that they're driving shooting up at their faces, but
1:56:48
it's very dynamic. The scenes of Sarah Jane walking
1:56:51
through the power station and she's this tiny little person in
1:56:54
this huge space that would James Bond would be jealous to have
1:56:58
that location. So I just think, yeah, for the
1:57:01
the most part, I don't mind Episode 4 either.
1:57:04
Lucy in this one, I don't mind them sort of going through what
1:57:07
looks like keys and Mariner sets, because we do that quite a
1:57:10
bit with Doctor Who and the rest of us look so great.
1:57:12
Who cares? Lots for Elizabeth Slayton to do
1:57:16
Happy Days. That makes me very happy indeed.
1:57:18
And she's playing evil. And the way she does it with
1:57:21
that sort of childlike, you know, that bit when she comes up
1:57:24
to the camera and she's got her fingers in her mouth like that
1:57:26
and then just attacks the fella. Absolutely terrifying.
1:57:29
Now, I don't know why she forgot how to do this because she was
1:57:32
possessed once again in Judoon episode of the Sarah Jane
1:57:35
Adventures and went into, like, camp nonsense.
1:57:38
It was really quite terrible. But this is brilliant, how she
1:57:41
plays all of this. Yeah.
1:57:44
Wonderful, wonderful stuff for Elizabeth Sladen to do.
1:57:46
And the. I worry about you.
1:57:49
Well, I worry about you saying it's one of the best Doctor
1:57:52
companion scenes ever. I do wonder if at this point,
1:57:56
yeah, she does need to go because they're so in simpatico
1:58:00
with each other. I'm not sure there's too much
1:58:02
drama around with the two of them, many more.
1:58:04
But they do just wander through the stories, very confident.
1:58:07
Boy, boy, they light up the screen, the pair of them.
1:58:12
I think Judith Paris is excellent as the female Eldreds
1:58:15
and it's a great costume as well.
1:58:17
Like I think I fancy her a little bit as well, if I'm
1:58:20
honest, But she embodies the role completely.
1:58:23
And I it's a bit of a shame actually, that they do bring in
1:58:26
Stephen Thorne, who has don't you roll your eyes at me.
1:58:30
As I said to The Three Doctors was a bit disappointing, and
1:58:34
he's a bit disappointing here. After having a nuanced villain
1:58:38
and then down to a panto villain, it feels like a step in
1:58:40
the wrong direction. His performance is very much
1:58:43
Tell me you want to cast Brian Blessed as a Doctor Who filled
1:58:45
without actually casting Brian Blessed as a Doctor Who villain
1:58:49
isn't it's. What he?
1:58:50
Does it's also oh I did Omega a few years ago, let's just
1:58:54
recreate the same character and play it in identically the same
1:58:57
way again. But you know, weirdly enough,
1:59:00
for a Bob Baker and Dave Martin script, I think the silent
1:59:02
fiction through line of this story is really interesting.
1:59:05
I love the opening scene of them of detonating the ship that
1:59:09
gives an explanation as to why the hands there in the quarry
1:59:12
after all these years, Sarah Jane then taking it to the power
1:59:15
station. It all makes sense.
1:59:17
From beat to beat to beat, it makes sense.
1:59:19
And then the pay off to it. All hail King Eldrad, King of
1:59:23
nothing, because there's no one left to say.
1:59:27
It's a it's a really interesting science fiction story.
1:59:31
I'm not sure why I've written down glum Houston.
1:59:34
I think I'm meant to write Glenn.
1:59:37
But that is a really thankless role.
1:59:39
And boy, does he do well. The bit you said, Lucy, where he
1:59:42
gets the most cliched line you could possibly give a character,
1:59:46
Kiss the children for me, tell them I love them.
1:59:49
It's so touching. So it just goes to show bringing
1:59:52
in good acting talent can salvage many a line.
1:59:55
It wasn't glum. No, it's definitely Glenn, not
1:59:58
glum. That's what is.
2:00:01
It even for a glim that's glum. That's probably got, that's
2:00:05
probably got a shout as being one of the best sort of
2:00:08
character moments in all of Doctor Who, though, at that
2:00:11
scene with Carter on the phone. I mean, as a wise man once said,
2:00:15
the memory cheats. And before I rewatched this, I
2:00:18
had it in my mind that that was a scene where he was killed off.
2:00:23
But, you know, you, you watch it, and it's just so beautifully
2:00:26
played. And we've got a man selfishly
2:00:28
putting his life on the line, staying with the sinking ship,
2:00:30
getting everybody out to evacuate the building.
2:00:33
And, well, he stays and faces down the problem at hand.
2:00:36
And what does he do? There's no big heroics.
2:00:38
There's no running headlong in a danger, no grandstanding.
2:00:42
Potentially his last act of his life is to phone home.
2:00:45
A quiet call, no histrionics, just a calm, reassuring
2:00:49
conversation with his wife and kids.
2:00:51
Saying goodbye without saying goodbye.
2:00:53
It's a lesson a lot of Doctor Who stories could learn,
2:00:55
actually giving the the lesser characters little moments like,
2:00:59
but you even the bit where he, the little girl picks up the
2:01:01
phone and he goes, Oh, did you? Oh, that's great.
2:01:05
You know, don't get your mum. It just feels so real.
2:01:08
And in the middle of all this madness with, you know, hands
2:01:11
wandering about the place and things like that, that's all the
2:01:14
more impressive. And the final scene, the final
2:01:17
scene rewritten by Tom Baker and Elizabeth Sladen and all the
2:01:21
better for the restraint. And I hate to sound like John
2:01:25
Bensalia. Hello, John.
2:01:27
But the new series could do with learning this lesson a little
2:01:30
bit by reigning it back a bit and not going too much for the
2:01:34
sentiment and just show how devastated two people are to be
2:01:39
splitting up without going I love you and all this bullshit.
2:01:42
Yeah, it's really sad the bit, it's the bit where he goes, I
2:01:45
have to go and she just goes alone and he says yes.
2:01:50
And then you realise, Oh no, this is this wonderful journey
2:01:54
is over. Well, not quite.
2:01:55
She'll be back, but I. Think about the best bit for me
2:01:59
is when right to the very end and he does the till we meet
2:02:03
again Sarah and she just stands there.
2:02:05
It's just that little noise and it just breaks your heart.
2:02:09
It's the fact that he can't quite show how he's feeling.
2:02:13
He can't quite deal with it. Like don't forget me.
2:02:15
Oh, don't you forget. Me.
2:02:18
Yeah, it's that. Deflection.
2:02:20
Yeah, it's two real life friends saying goodbye to each other as
2:02:22
well though, isn't it? And that's what makes it so
2:02:24
good. And but like you know, we've
2:02:26
just had a, well, just had a couple of seasons back, we had a
2:02:29
brilliant exit for Joe Grant. We then get a brilliant exit.
2:02:31
So they're setting the bar now and unfortunately.
2:02:36
Next time are a. Bit lame until we get to Attric,
2:02:39
and that's an explosive win. Yeah, I didn't go in expecting
2:02:44
to think too much of this. I even thought it was full of
2:02:47
witty lines as well. I was laughing quite a bit.
2:02:49
The Gadhafre Island bit made me laugh unbelievably.
2:02:52
Yeah, put it through. It's great.
2:02:54
Fantastic. OK, so I'm superfluous on this
2:02:56
one, but I'm going to put this one through as well.
2:02:59
Absolutely. So I was 10.
2:03:02
Was this gone? I think I've mentioned that a
2:03:03
few times, but I won't bore you with the reasons why.
2:03:05
But episode 4 went out during the October half term holidays
2:03:09
and I had to write a report of my half term holidays every year
2:03:14
for space reasons that we don't need to go into here's.
2:03:17
The Doctor Who episodes. I watched this.
2:03:20
No, I had to kind of, I was advised to keep it away from any
2:03:23
kind of WHO references. However, I've still got this
2:03:26
report and I actually looked up this episode and it says this is
2:03:31
from me at age 10. It was a very sad evening for me
2:03:35
because Sarah Jane Smith left Doctor Who, which was very
2:03:41
interesting. You lied and said I went to a
2:03:43
power station, got possessed. By a ring.
2:03:49
And then I said fuck off at the end.
2:03:51
The next appearance, even when I submit something else, you just
2:03:53
keep sitting in the corner saying something a bit.
2:03:55
I'll drive, I think I need. To book him in for an.
2:03:59
Appointment somewhere that was. That was said many times, lad,
2:04:03
it was. A very moving confession, I'm
2:04:05
sorry. All right, all right,
2:04:08
absolutely. I'm putting this one through.
2:04:09
So I've gone for my first reason is part one.
2:04:13
And unlike you guys worried that there's something about the
2:04:14
modern day setting here that feels really refreshing because
2:04:19
usually with Tom so far Earth settings being cut off or we've
2:04:23
had Zygon duplicates or Android duplicates or we've had really
2:04:27
over the top people like Harrison Chase and Amelia Dukar.
2:04:30
And yes, whilst they're all magnificent, this actually feels
2:04:33
refreshing because we're just in a quarry with regular blue
2:04:36
collar work. Then we're off to an NHS
2:04:38
hospital with a regular doctor and it just feels real.
2:04:42
And I think that reality really works.
2:04:44
And yes, we're not. I know in Doctor Who in the.
2:04:48
70s. We've got a woman in the second
2:04:50
episode as well. What the hell is happening?
2:04:52
Doctor Who has gone? I'm slept now.
2:04:57
Don't worry, we'll have all the races of next week.
2:05:01
We haven't got a. Quarry that actually makes sense
2:05:04
as a quarry. Exactly it.
2:05:05
Needs to be a quarry because, because that's the plot.
2:05:09
Demanding of all of Doctor Who because I'm like, terrifyingly
2:05:13
claustrophobic. The situation that she's in,
2:05:16
that is the scariest situation I could possibly imagine.
2:05:19
I'd reach out for that hand as well.
2:05:21
Would you be screaming as well? Definitely yes.
2:05:26
Thinkly you might be right, but I think that wasn't stock
2:05:29
footage as well. That quarry explosion, I think
2:05:31
they shot that specifically for that because yeah, stories about
2:05:34
cameras getting. No, they says it in the behind
2:05:36
the sofas. They lost the camera, but they
2:05:38
but they managed to salvage the footage.
2:05:40
Yeah. So it wasn't stock huge with the
2:05:42
budget then? Yeah, apparently Lyric Lenny
2:05:44
made the phone call. Phillip.
2:05:46
Sorry, we've just destroyed a camera.
2:05:49
Did you get the shot? Did you get the?
2:05:50
Shot yes, OK, but it. Is fantastic and it makes it
2:05:55
feel comes back to that reality again.
2:05:56
It just feels real. And then Sarah needs to go to
2:05:59
hospital for attention again. Usually we're used to our
2:06:02
heroes, you know, going through all sorts of explosions and just
2:06:04
standing up and dusting themselves down here.
2:06:06
She's got to go to us. It just makes us feel real.
2:06:10
Sorry to keep it wrong. Do you remember that space
2:06:11
hospital in The Invisible Enemy? I mean, that's how bad it can
2:06:14
get. I kind of love that.
2:06:16
Yeah, me too. That's a story for another day.
2:06:20
And then we get Sarah's possession which works really
2:06:23
well because we've had all that kind of, we grounded this in
2:06:26
reality. Now remember Sarah was possessed
2:06:29
2 episodes ago in the Maskerman Dragon Bar and it couldn't be
2:06:32
more different than it is here. Here it's shot with, you know,
2:06:36
real unearthliness, everything shot through fish eyed lens.
2:06:40
The music, the sound list, Laden's fantastic acting.
2:06:43
As you rightly say Jo, she actually feels possessed now and
2:06:47
it feels scary as that one shot, she approaches the power station
2:06:51
through the traffic camera and you just see her approaching.
2:06:54
Brilliant bit of direction. And then of course we end up
2:06:58
with that all time classic cliffhanger of the hand in the
2:07:02
Tupperware. So yeah, Part 1.
2:07:04
Brilliant. My second reason Part 2 now.
2:07:07
See where this is going do. You.
2:07:09
Yeah, you're a clever man. You know what?
2:07:12
Part 2 is the most brilliant example of plate spinning
2:07:15
because we start the episode with the hand in the reactor
2:07:18
room and we end with the hand in the reactor room.
2:07:21
Actually, what always happened in Episode 2?
2:07:24
But you could rework the script and lose that.
2:07:27
But, but Baker and Dave Martin turn it into 25 minutes of
2:07:31
thrilling TV. And actually, unless you're
2:07:33
looking closely, you wouldn't notice that.
2:07:34
It's totally inconsequential. Yes, we've changed location.
2:07:38
So we've got that power station, as you've all rightly alluded
2:07:41
to, look very different to the empty power station we saw in
2:07:44
episode one where Sarah just killed one guard on the ladder.
2:07:47
Here's something we've got loads of technicians running around.
2:07:50
We've got a well staffed control room.
2:07:52
We meet Professor Watson, as everyone's talked about, and
2:07:55
he's very much the everyman hero.
2:07:57
And isn't it interesting he actually gets the cliffhanger at
2:07:59
the end of episode 2, not the Doctor or Sarah.
2:08:04
And you know, over the course of the episode we going see him
2:08:06
going through panic through to incredulity, into acceptance.
2:08:10
And I just think he goes on a real everyman journey.
2:08:13
And we go along with that and we get chases, we get pursuits, we
2:08:16
get misdirection, we get humour. All of this is in 25 minutes of
2:08:20
TV that means absolutely nothing because the plot doesn't
2:08:23
progress. But my God, it's so bloody
2:08:25
entertaining. Deadly.
2:08:26
Assassin episode 3. Well, there we go.
2:08:29
And my third reason is Part 3. So now I.
2:08:33
Never would have guessed. Would you not?
2:08:36
It's clever. You don't do 20 episodes of
2:08:38
these before working out. That's.
2:08:41
You have done this before. So now we're in path three,
2:08:45
we're building momentum. We find out Eldred can survive a
2:08:48
nuclear core. She can absorb a radiation
2:08:50
blast, she can even absorb RAF nuclear missiles.
2:08:54
We're creating a really dangerous foe here.
2:08:57
And then we introduced Judith Harris.
2:08:58
As you've all said, she's quiet, she's restrained.
2:09:01
Her eyes boggle almost as much as Tom Baker's.
2:09:04
It's a bit of a boggle off, isn't it?
2:09:06
She's got great tits as well I wouldn't know about.
2:09:10
That I didn't notice that actually I.
2:09:11
Did. I'm surprised, but I did.
2:09:13
Did you know I'll I'll stick with Thomas in the the Facebook
2:09:18
look at Lee. I said nothing.
2:09:23
I was talking about boggly eyes. Keep keep your keep your mind
2:09:26
clean, Ford don't. You drag me in it.
2:09:28
They got a usual Ford, sorry. And it's not that type of gutter
2:09:33
he's used to either. But anyway, there's no time to
2:09:36
pause because we're off to Castro.
2:09:38
We've got Alien on board the TARDIS, which feels really,
2:09:41
really different and fresh. And again, we end with a
2:09:43
cliffhanger with someone other in peril rather than the Doctor
2:09:46
and Sarah. So part three is brilliant.
2:09:48
And those are my three reasons I'm going to stop that because
2:09:51
Part 4 is a bloody awful mess. I think Part 4 is such a
2:09:56
shambles. I hate Castria I Stephen Thorne
2:10:00
just gives the worst cliche performance you could possibly
2:10:04
get. It's so sad.
2:10:05
Howard, this suddenly collapse a bit in Part 4.
2:10:07
But but but but it's completely rescued by the leading scene,
2:10:11
isn't it? Which cannot be topped as a
2:10:14
leading senior Doctor Who. So yeah, absolutely.
2:10:17
This is still going through on Balance.
2:10:19
I refuse to believe her worldly possessions on that flower and
2:10:22
that owl toy. Oh, don't you love as well?
2:10:26
Sorry, one last thing that you love.
2:10:28
When they go from Earth to Castria, she goes, Oh well, I'm
2:10:31
going to get changed and that's it.
2:10:33
It's so casual, isn't it? She comes back and goes, are we
2:10:35
there yet? You've got a car at this point.
2:10:41
Oh bless, no she didn't. It broke my heart.
2:10:44
I know this is, I know this is going through, we've all decided
2:10:47
that this is progressing to the next round.
2:10:49
But I will say one final thing in favour of the hand of the
2:10:51
fear that does give us a terrifying monster on a
2:10:54
Tupperware box years before Gillian Mckeith came on.
2:10:58
That. Is true, yes.
2:11:01
I know in the Guard with Mr. Joe Fortune.
2:11:04
You're very welcome to join me, don't worry.
2:11:06
Feel a little bit sick? The hand effect though, whoever
2:11:09
said that in the comments, that's one of the best effects
2:11:11
ever. He's he's very footlessly down.
2:11:14
Isn't it the way it goes from the stone to moving And there's
2:11:18
one bit as well where she puts her hand in and it goes and just
2:11:21
grabs her really quickly? Yeah, really good do.
2:11:24
You think that's a prop because you don't see him moving at all.
2:11:27
So I thought I was just standing and then she touches like grab.
2:11:29
Brilliant. It's a big like that spider
2:11:31
under the bed in Iraq is in the UK.
2:11:33
It's fucking nothing on my move. It's nothing like that CGI shit.
2:11:38
Don't start me on that again. But.
2:11:39
He's like a spider and that's what the fear it's playing.
2:11:42
As well I will. I will go with that Lucy.
2:11:44
It's not like a dreadful CGI spider, though.
2:11:48
Well, I haven't seen that one so I don't know, but.
2:11:51
As a person who is. Nervous around spiders as a
2:11:53
general rule. It looks like the sort of the
2:11:56
creeping thing is playing into that fear as well.
2:11:58
Absolutely it does, right Lee? You have got possibly the poison
2:12:03
chalice. We don't know, but head for the
2:12:06
talons of Wyang Chi Ang. Why?
2:12:09
Should you say wyang chi ang? It's Wen chi Ang.
2:12:12
I always said wyang chi ang, I don't know.
2:12:16
I've got a certain ring to it though I.
2:12:17
Feel like we might be being racist now?
2:12:21
No, we're not. Well, talking of which, the
2:12:25
title one's a win, Shang. I'm going to put it through
2:12:27
because at heart, I'm a massive racist.
2:12:29
No, I'm joking. I'm massive.
2:12:33
For tonight, cancel forever. Good night.
2:12:37
I felt like this. Maybe we should address it.
2:12:39
Lee. Lee.
2:12:40
Yes. I've heard you're a massive
2:12:41
racist now. Are we all to be racist, Lee?
2:12:46
With that accent? Yes, I've got yeah.
2:12:48
That's not Hilton, is it? I mean that's where we started
2:12:51
with you accusing me of being a massive racist, so we may as
2:12:53
well end here. What's an all an offensive
2:12:57
accent between the frenzy? OK, well let's start with the
2:13:01
one thing that we're always going to come up in the
2:13:03
discussion of this episode. It's the betrayal of the
2:13:05
villains. Now there are many problems and
2:13:08
issues with the Oriental make up employed, and while it's far
2:13:13
from an ideal choice, to say the least, we're looking at this
2:13:16
through modern eyes. Now, I'm pretty sure there would
2:13:18
have been Asian actors that could have been cast in those
2:13:20
roles, but we're talking about a television landscape in the
2:13:23
1970s here, which I feel fairly confident in saying was nowhere
2:13:28
near as diverse as what we have today in terms of casting or the
2:13:32
attitudes of the day. No one at the time would have
2:13:34
batted an eyelid at this portrayal.
2:13:37
I mean, if you look at what's been televised at the time,
2:13:39
you've got The Sweeney with its prevailing macho attitudes.
2:13:43
You've got any number of sitcoms of the day we have a sizeable
2:13:46
portion of which have lessened, enlightened attitudes towards,
2:13:49
say, female characters. You've got Basil Brush.
2:13:52
It was almost certainly a racist.
2:13:58
I'm not touching that I'm not touching.
2:14:01
If the fox dresses like a Tory and speaks like a Tory, chances
2:14:04
are. There we go.
2:14:06
I only remember him dirty girty from #30.
2:14:09
Those sitcoms, Lee, I mean, I love IUP and certain things like
2:14:12
that, but they're so problematic now to watch them.
2:14:15
It's not things like love, my neighbour.
2:14:17
That on the buses is still being shown on repeat on some channels
2:14:21
because it's it wasn't right at the time, it's definitely not
2:14:24
right now. It's not improved with you just
2:14:29
so the approaches are a problem, but even with the questionable
2:14:31
choices put in place here and well off, he should have been
2:14:35
cast in the role in the 1st place.
2:14:37
You cannot deny that John Bennett gives anything less than
2:14:39
a superb performance as Lee Sen Chang, from the moment he steps
2:14:44
on screen, is dripping with a quiet menace that has you, the
2:14:47
viewer, slightly on edge every time he's around.
2:14:50
It's contained, it's rained in, and isn't it all the more
2:14:54
terrifying for it? Despite all the questions as to
2:14:57
whether you should have had the part in the 1st place, you can't
2:14:59
ignore that John Bennett puts in a stellar turn here, oozing
2:15:02
malevolence, a calmly sinister performance.
2:15:06
Evil doesn't shout, it whispers. And by God, this John Bennett
2:15:10
whispered the bejesus out of you and talons of wenchuang.
2:15:13
You know, he, he is a a very sympathetic character as well.
2:15:17
When you learn about his background, when you learn about
2:15:19
what he was promised, like people suggest it is all just,
2:15:23
they're just all monsters in this.
2:15:25
But actually I feel so much empathy for him as the story
2:15:28
goes on. I think it's yeah, the casting
2:15:31
is an issue, but I think the characterisation.
2:15:33
I think the characterisation is real, Yes, absolutely spot on is
2:15:36
a lot more. Nuanced than people suggest.
2:15:38
It is. It is.
2:15:41
OK, then point #2 and you're going to have to forgive the
2:15:43
terrible impression I'm about to do here, but oh.
2:15:45
No. Oh God.
2:15:46
Point number. I think you're a terrible racist
2:15:49
now. It's not a Scottish.
2:15:51
Had an Irish accent. Don't worry folks, point #2 is
2:15:55
simply entitled. Red veins.
2:16:00
Yes, it's tiny. To address the giant rat in the
2:16:02
room and I guess. Superstar, yeah.
2:16:10
I'm I'm sure Lucy's going to be on the side of this one, but the
2:16:12
giant rat is nowhere near as bad as everyone says it is.
2:16:16
Look at the other monster in this story.
2:16:18
We've got Mr. Sin, a murderous psychopathic robot toy with the
2:16:22
cerebral cortex of a pig grafted onto it.
2:16:26
Talons, eventually Young, deals in the grotesque, and in order
2:16:29
to make Mr. Sin feel frightening, you have to raise
2:16:32
the other elements of the story to match him so he doesn't feel
2:16:34
daft or ridiculous. So why not a giant rat for all
2:16:38
the time it's on screen? That hardly damages the
2:16:41
atmosphere of the story. And let's face it, even though
2:16:43
Louise Jameson does a damnedest to sell that attack, it's only
2:16:47
on screen for a matter of seconds.
2:16:50
It's an amazing cliffhanger though, isn't it?
2:16:52
Oh, why the the rat's in the dock, You can barely see it.
2:16:56
She's screaming her head off for the only time ever.
2:16:58
Really really sells it. And the rat takes a variable
2:17:02
break back so the fans like my boy the marker, but blinking you
2:17:05
miss him. And in keeping with the rest of
2:17:07
the story for not dealing with a magnum, a beast here.
2:17:10
Rehabilitate the rodent. I say.
2:17:12
Clear his name and of all the fandom so that one day we can
2:17:15
finally see him share the stage with John Levine at a convention
2:17:19
recanting stories of the old times.
2:17:21
I say restore the reputation of the rat.
2:17:24
I feel like you've become, you know how Fraser Gregory is like
2:17:27
champion of the damned of all the really shit Doctor Who
2:17:30
stories, Lee from the Polish box, Champion of all the shit
2:17:33
monsters. Oh me.
2:17:35
Too. I learned from the best.
2:17:38
Although the bit there is one bit though, just one bit where
2:17:42
there's a whacking great close up on him in his big fluffy head
2:17:44
and he's sort of like bobbing up and down like that.
2:17:47
That's the only bit. I'm going over to you.
2:17:49
But equally, I will counter with that the scene where he's
2:17:52
gnawing leasing Chang his body, who we think is dead at that
2:17:56
stage in the waters sounds terrific.
2:18:00
It's. Horrible it is.
2:18:03
Oh no, wait. And the bit where he takes for
2:18:05
me, the grill is. Sorry, nobody can actually see
2:18:10
this, but it's an incredible giant rat impression.
2:18:13
That was an amazing I I was there, Joe.
2:18:15
I was actually there. Justice for the Rat I.
2:18:19
Would never have gone in my head that Roland rat should be this
2:18:21
instead. No, God, no.
2:18:24
Creeping down the cigars, all he can hear in the distance.
2:18:29
That would be way scarier. With having the gerbils, Mr.
2:18:36
Sin. She should have finished him off
2:18:38
in no time. I beg your pardon?
2:18:39
Lucy, Lucy McCall I do not expect.
2:18:44
Your mouth. Sorry, Lee, you haven't got
2:18:47
your. Interpretation.
2:18:49
It usually is Lucy. Well, my 4th and final point
2:18:54
isn't going to be air shattering or relevant revelatory in any
2:18:57
sense whatsoever. But let's just admit right here
2:19:00
and now that talons of Wenchai Yang, you can keep your genesis
2:19:04
in a Daleks. You can kick your Caves of
2:19:06
Androsani down a mineshaft. This is perhaps the finest
2:19:10
Doctor Who story ever. It's got all the hallmarks of a
2:19:14
great 1970s episode. It's got all the freight, it's
2:19:17
got the menace, it's got the danger, it's got great
2:19:20
performances. You've got a good double act in
2:19:22
Jago Lightfoot, two strong leads really getting into the story.
2:19:26
It's got great production values, the whole kit and Kibido
2:19:29
is here. Great story in the 70s, yes,
2:19:32
great story of all time and Doctor Who.
2:19:34
I'd say so. It's even got a hooker in it.
2:19:39
One for the duds. Blow me love a duck Gov should
2:19:44
we get? Flights up for a few hours?
2:19:46
Savvy. He just suddenly turned his teak
2:19:48
on that. Let's go into the comments.
2:19:54
Let's. Go into the comments.
2:19:56
I do need to put a public warning out first before we read
2:19:59
the comments. We've received a couple of
2:20:01
comments on this particular story that were essay length.
2:20:05
When I say essay length, almost like kind of obverse book
2:20:08
length. So we have had to be quite
2:20:11
judicious in our editing, so apologies hopefully.
2:20:14
Please, please restrain yourselves to one or two tweets.
2:20:19
But hopefully we've captured the spirit of what you're saying.
2:20:21
Let's start with Brendan Jones. Yes, the casting is a racist
2:20:25
problem. That's how it was back then.
2:20:27
Doesn't make it right, but the script is good.
2:20:30
Unlike Mask, there's a concerted effort to evoke not only the
2:20:33
era, but also our perceptions of the era through the lens of TV.
2:20:37
Well, I'll just address this point though.
2:20:39
Yeah, because pointing at talents of Wen Chai Ang and
2:20:42
saying this is a problem and it doesn't make it right.
2:20:44
Fine, then you can't watch half of the 60s as well where they're
2:20:48
blacking people up all the time. In fact, there are problematic
2:20:52
things in most classic Doctor Who stories if it's racism or
2:20:56
sexism or people involved that were racist and sexist.
2:21:00
Like you have to dismiss the entirety of classic Who for the
2:21:04
most part if you're going to take that angle.
2:21:07
I don't buy it and it. Was television in the Sixties,
2:21:10
70s and 80s Isabel? Well, Lee, the the big one that
2:21:12
you didn't mention obviously with the big Saturday night show
2:21:15
is the black and white Minstrels where, you know, people were
2:21:18
doing blackface and dancing. And I mean, that went on for
2:21:20
about 30 years on the BBC and was much beloved.
2:21:23
And it was certainly going out at this period.
2:21:25
And yes, it doesn't make it right, but it was what was
2:21:28
happening at the time. This didn't feel out of kilter.
2:21:31
What? So in fact, probably what felt
2:21:33
out of kilter here was that the whole of the Chinese tongue
2:21:35
actually were being played by Asian actors.
2:21:38
I think it's only, it's only John Bennett's performance that
2:21:41
isn't so. It's not.
2:21:43
And it's not a shortage of Asian actors.
2:21:45
I mean, they've got them playing the gang, so why could you not
2:21:48
find an Asian actor to play the main role?
2:21:52
I'm not making an, I'm not making an excuse for the
2:21:55
casting, but he gives such a great performance.
2:21:58
Maybe he was just. The best actor.
2:22:01
To play the part. Yeah, I think they were very
2:22:04
blinked at the time, but it was the time and the yes, it doesn't
2:22:07
excuse it now, but it is. It's just the way it was at that
2:22:12
time. Well.
2:22:13
On that note, Jack Hoyer says. But for those who say it was a
2:22:17
different time, please watch The Mind of Evil.
2:22:20
I believe the only Asian character in that is evil.
2:22:22
Wasn't, isn't she? Yeah.
2:22:24
OK, then be reminded how this subject matter can be handled
2:22:27
better. The idea that any child, in
2:22:29
particular a Chinese child, could hear some of the things
2:22:31
that the doctor is saying is outrageous.
2:22:34
It's a stain on the legacy of some of the greatest names in
2:22:36
Doctor Who history. But it's because of their
2:22:39
tremendous achievements that I'm compelled to separate what they
2:22:42
did so well from where they fail so badly.
2:22:45
That's a well, no judge comment, Jack Bravo.
2:22:48
And on a similar vein, Paul Quinn says it may be beautiful
2:22:51
to look at and it's acted to near perfection, but it's an
2:22:54
ugly production, racist and sexually problematic.
2:22:57
I know it's the final story of a beloved period of the show, but
2:23:00
there are blind spots in that production theme.
2:23:02
This is one, and the most mostly limited sporting roles for women
2:23:06
is another, and that's clear for most of this season.
2:23:10
Which he lauded James Lark I always felt there was something
2:23:15
sickly about Talons and we shouldn't overlook or excuse the
2:23:18
attitudes to race or women that permeate it.
2:23:20
What's a pity when there's such richness elsewhere.
2:23:23
Victoriana gives us a smoky London streets, the Music Hall,
2:23:27
the celebrated double app that emerges in the final two
2:23:29
episodes and the giddy Oh God, why did you thank you inspired
2:23:35
pursuit through the theatre. The big orange Michael says a
2:23:39
master class of Holmes is tropes.
2:23:41
Every penny is on the screen. A great script of double acts
2:23:44
view today though that are problematic elements.
2:23:47
That said, I still respect this as the combination of one of
2:23:50
whose most confident errors keep it.
2:23:53
I'm not going to keep banging on about this, but I do.
2:23:56
I find it problematic that this is the story that everybody
2:23:59
finds problematic because we've we've done a lot of comments,
2:24:03
you and I, Rod, about problematic stories.
2:24:06
And. Nobody has mentioned how
2:24:08
problematic as much as they have here.
2:24:11
No, this one is the one that gets kind of cherry picked a bit
2:24:13
as the the ultimate evil. Maybe everybody just have a
2:24:17
quick look around you at all the other stories before Martin
2:24:23
Parson sumptuously. It looks amazing.
2:24:25
The dialogue is as delicious as a hot buttered muffin.
2:24:29
No, he said. Hot, muttered muffin.
2:24:31
Hot, muttered Muffin. He does he.
2:24:34
Doesn't love a hot muffin though.
2:24:36
I love a hot buttered muffin though.
2:24:38
I don't like a hot muffin personally.
2:24:40
Oh. I was talking about Lee.
2:24:42
The atmosphere is as thick as a pea.
2:24:44
Super over the Thames. Jayco and Lightfoot are just
2:24:47
adorable. Darren Litt Randall says a
2:24:49
simple plot, but the production is so rich with atmosphere and
2:24:52
quality. The shows rarely look so
2:24:54
expensive and never would again. The last time Tom really tries
2:24:58
before the ego takes off. A story to savour.
2:25:02
It's quite subdued in horror fan rock.
2:25:05
Sorry I'm taking issue with everyone's comments.
2:25:07
All done. The finest of this series.
2:25:09
Not problematic, a product of its time.
2:25:12
Jago and Lightfoot are glorious. Not a Duff bit in it.
2:25:15
Even the Rat is fine. There you go.
2:25:18
Lee Gothic, who at its best? Steve Mallard says despite his
2:25:22
problems, he's become a fan favorite for a reason.
2:25:25
The closest who gets to Holmes, with the Victorian setting
2:25:28
becoming a character in its own right.
2:25:30
Jake and Lightfoot? Compelling, if not A trifle
2:25:33
stupid, but that's all in good fun.
2:25:35
John Bensalia, A Sunday roast of a finale with all the trimmings.
2:25:39
The assured direction matches the richly written script, plus
2:25:42
Jago and Lightfoot. If you're bothered by the fact
2:25:44
it was made in 1976 and not 2024, build your own TARDIS, go
2:25:50
back in time and remake it. Complexicated Cookie even says
2:25:55
there are significant problems, but at the same time this is a
2:25:58
truly brilliant story, wonderfully written, performed
2:26:01
and with characters the just of the test of time.
2:26:03
It being a wonderful story and also being racist are two things
2:26:07
that can and do coexist. The racism is bad and it makes
2:26:11
it a difficult watch a time, but it doesn't turn this into a one
2:26:14
star story. You ever seen one of my
2:26:16
dinosaurs as missing? Yes.
2:26:19
It's an absolutely hilarious movie, like rolling in the
2:26:24
aisles funny. It's also one of the most racist
2:26:27
things I've ever seen. He's right.
2:26:29
He is right. And wasn't that 1980?
2:26:32
I think I was made in 80, so you know, a couple years after that.
2:26:35
Things have not got better Rod let's Kev Blower loved Halon
2:26:40
since the 80s VHS proceeds. Yes, yellow face is wrong, but
2:26:43
Benedict gives a sympathetic portrayal.
2:26:45
The acting, sets, costumes and locations are among the the best
2:26:48
ever. Mr. Sin is terrifying and by
2:26:52
Jove we get Jago and Lightfoot. Ian Winston says yes the yellow
2:26:56
face reflects racist aptitude to the time, but I still consider
2:26:59
this as my favorite ever. Who Leela as Eliza Doolittle?
2:27:03
The giant rats Hinch clips insist on that they not be the
2:27:06
master, so pushing homes to create Greal and the terrifying
2:27:09
Mr. Sin. John Newsome, Hinchcliffe and
2:27:12
home reach apotheosis. Tom Baker hasn't quite been let
2:27:16
off the leash yet, but with this script he doesn't need to.
2:27:18
And it's perfectly paced. Miraculous for A6 parter.
2:27:22
And our final comment, Anthony Carroll says second best story
2:27:25
of the season. Very adult and gripping.
2:27:27
I even excuse the rat. So there's a lot of rat love
2:27:30
going on. Lucy Rat Love.
2:27:35
Yes, I am going to put this in the bin though, but not for
2:27:38
that, not for the reasons that you might expect it to go in the
2:27:41
bin. The reason it's going in is
2:27:42
because I just didn't like it. I would usually not mind
2:27:48
Sherlock Holmes pastiche. I've watched several of them,
2:27:51
although I prefer Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock Holmes
2:27:54
pastiches. I think.
2:27:56
I mean, I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but I
2:28:00
think that perhaps some of the things that people, there is a
2:28:05
lot of racist language in this, in this episode, a lot of it.
2:28:09
And I think that again, I'm putting words in Holmes's mouth,
2:28:14
but he's showing Victorian attitudes and the the people
2:28:19
talked like that about Chinese people in Victorian London.
2:28:23
What makes it uncomfortable is that although you can see the
2:28:28
doctor's reaction to it, you know, when somebody says
2:28:31
something like he, he will sort of look at them like, oh, you're
2:28:34
saying that are you? This is it's pitched as horror
2:28:40
entertainment rather than social commentary.
2:28:44
And Jago and Lightfoot are characters that we are intended
2:28:48
to find sympathetic, and they follow the habits of their time
2:28:54
in the way that they address other characters.
2:28:57
You've also. Understandably.
2:28:58
Yeah, understandably, but they're still characters we're
2:29:01
supposed to find sympathetic. And you've got, of course, the
2:29:04
comedy Irish stagehand, of course as well, who is another
2:29:08
trope from the past. I feel like the story gets
2:29:13
muddled with like, Mr. Sin, Why is there a homunculus from Hong
2:29:18
Kong in the past with a pig's brain in what?
2:29:23
What? Apart from you wanting to have a
2:29:26
terrifying ventriloquist dummy creature, which you could have
2:29:28
had without the whole kind of. There's lots of bits where the
2:29:31
doctor talks very fast about things and describes things and
2:29:34
says, Oh yes, I was at this battle and this is.
2:29:37
And then the pig part of his brain took over.
2:29:38
And at that point I just went. I know you can see Big Finish
2:29:41
taking notes on every bit of exposition, can't you?
2:29:44
Yes, he's he's really, he's the character is is definitely
2:29:48
creepy. And the idea of have you seen
2:29:51
magic the film with Anthony Hopkins as a ventriloquist who
2:29:56
who may or may not be having a breakdown.
2:29:58
He's either having a breakdown or his puppet has come to life.
2:30:02
And it's not entirely clear for most of the film which which it
2:30:07
is. So this is an actual
2:30:09
ventriloquist dummy that looks like a ventriloquist dummy that
2:30:12
does terrible things and it's really, really creepy.
2:30:17
So my, I suppose my point kind of is you can have a thing
2:30:20
coming to life without needing all the And he went back through
2:30:24
time and he got the homunculus from Hong Kong and he bought it.
2:30:27
And at that point, I just sort of think, is there really any
2:30:31
apart from giving the character back story, which could have
2:30:33
been a bit more straightforward? I'll counter that though,
2:30:37
because this is still not to who so I don't Oh yeah, just have a
2:30:42
a magic puppet going around. Oh no, no, I'm not saying.
2:30:44
You need a science fiction reason?
2:30:46
Yeah. You need a science fiction
2:30:47
reason. I'm just saying.
2:30:48
The science fiction, science fiction reason seemed to be just
2:30:53
kind of plumped in there and then Weird.
2:30:58
He's a foe from the future and he's bought his toy with him,
2:31:00
his teddy bear. Yeah, I suppose so.
2:31:04
There is the question that there is obviously the the thing that
2:31:08
the women are all victims, all of them apart from Leela.
2:31:14
They there is the suggestion that it's sort of oh, it could
2:31:19
be the Ripper yet. No, don't go there.
2:31:23
Those were real people who were murdered and it's not like a
2:31:28
novelty to play with in but. I count on that again.
2:31:33
Yeah, if you must, because. Well, no, no, no, no.
2:31:35
It's a debate show. I would say that about the Great
2:31:39
Fire of London as well, though. Those are the real people that
2:31:41
died, and we're giving a science fiction reason for that.
2:31:44
Yeah, absolutely, completely. I'm the Black Death, if we're
2:31:47
coming to it. Yeah, it's absolutely true.
2:31:49
I completely accept that. I think, I think with with the
2:31:55
questions around Jon Bennett's casting, it is something that as
2:32:03
John said, it is coming. You yellow face is, is always
2:32:10
going to be racist because it is a white person pretending to be
2:32:14
a person who is not white. And it is at the same time
2:32:19
preventing a Chinese person being cast in a role, whatever
2:32:24
the decision making process was behind that.
2:32:27
It's up to the viewer to decide what their attitude to that is.
2:32:32
I think the the the language which is which is offensive
2:32:36
language that's used against the Chinese characters is used in
2:32:39
the context of Victorian London. And I'm not sure how much the
2:32:43
kind of, I'm not sure how much that necessarily.
2:32:48
It feels to me as if some, perhaps people would prefer that
2:32:55
to be challenged more by the contempt.
2:32:57
Contemporary in inverted commas. Obviously they're from the
2:33:00
future characters, yeah. It's when the doctor adopts the
2:33:04
language himself, this little man and other little man, that's
2:33:07
when it becomes a bit of an issue, yes, and it's.
2:33:09
Definitely challenged at any point either, isn't it?
2:33:11
The characters try and it's not directly.
2:33:15
Sorry. Where the doctor looks at sort
2:33:17
of at Lightfoot when he's talking about being in and you
2:33:22
know, oh, the fireworks are set off to drive away evil spirits
2:33:25
and English really. But it kind of it's, it's so
2:33:31
yes, it was a thing that happened at that time and it's
2:33:34
so brought to the forefront that you, it's right there, right in
2:33:40
front of you. And I I guess perhaps people
2:33:43
would prefer it if there was some kind of challenge to it in
2:33:47
the program rather than in the minds of the viewers.
2:33:50
I think though, to meet there are there are single Riley's
2:33:53
heat doesn't outwardly or directly challenge it, but I
2:33:57
think there are scenes that very clearly.
2:33:59
So I'm thinking of the scene in episode one where the the
2:34:03
Chinese tongue member has been captured and is sat in the in
2:34:06
the police tape and the policeman talks to him in a
2:34:09
very, very derogatory, racist, laboured way.
2:34:13
And the doctor just completely looks at him, completely ignored
2:34:16
that sit down and speaks to him in Mandarise directly, therefore
2:34:20
respecting him and his language. And whilst he doesn't say to the
2:34:24
policeman what you've just said is wrong, I think his action by
2:34:27
showing respect to the member of the Chinese tongue, by speaking
2:34:31
to me in his own language and doing it in a respectful and
2:34:33
direct way, that to me kind of says that's where the doctor is
2:34:39
being and he is showing respect. Unlike the policeman, because
2:34:43
they're both using language, they're using it in a very
2:34:45
different way, The doctor being respectful, the policeman's
2:34:48
being dismissive and racist. What what bothers me is people
2:34:53
should be offended by this. It is offensive.
2:34:55
What's happening in this story is how kind of would you said it
2:35:00
there, Lucy? It's up to the viewer to decide.
2:35:03
It's not up to other viewers to decide what other viewers should
2:35:08
decide. And that's what happens a lot.
2:35:10
Oh. No, absolutely.
2:35:11
I mean, there is, as you've said, you, you and others, we've
2:35:15
all discussed programs that we like to an extent, a greater or
2:35:20
lesser extent, that have problematic depictions of people
2:35:26
in them from different countries, different racial
2:35:30
cultures, different cultures. We need to decide whether it
2:35:35
bothers us, whether we are going to say it was the 1970s.
2:35:40
I mean, I feel uncomfortable saying that because I was born
2:35:43
in 1973. It wasn't 100 years ago yet, so
2:35:51
it's really, I don't again, I don't want to put words in
2:35:55
people's mouths, but it's something that needs to come
2:35:58
from you where you watch it and say, OK, I enjoy this.
2:36:02
It really means a lot to me. I so for instance, I grew up
2:36:07
reading Biggles books, which are very racist.
2:36:12
I enjoyed reading them when I was a child.
2:36:14
I was a naive child. I had a sheltered upbringing.
2:36:16
I didn't appreciate what was in the books.
2:36:19
I have an emotional connection to them now, even though I know
2:36:22
how massively problematic they are.
2:36:24
I wouldn't recommend them to anybody, particularly not a
2:36:26
child necessarily today. But you need to recognize
2:36:30
whether what your attachment with it is.
2:36:32
If you have an emotional attachment to it, fine.
2:36:35
You have an emotional attachment to it.
2:36:37
But it's possible for something to for you to feel emotionally
2:36:40
attached to something which another person would find hugely
2:36:43
problematic. But that's on you.
2:36:45
That's your how you feel about it.
2:36:48
I I'm not going into it from the point of view of saying it's
2:36:52
appallingly racist. It should go in the bin.
2:36:54
That's not why I want to bin it. I want to bin it because I just
2:36:57
didn't enjoy it. It felt nasty.
2:36:59
And although I do sometimes like nasty episodes, but it it felt
2:37:05
like and also the the going back, just stepping side
2:37:08
stepping back. It plays on the sort of
2:37:11
Sinophobia of the Victorian era. Obviously, hugely.
2:37:14
The gangs. They're all in gangs.
2:37:16
They're all, you know, the tones.
2:37:18
But they are, they're not, you know, innocent laundry
2:37:23
employees. They are gangsters.
2:37:24
And John Bennett's character is a massive villain because he's
2:37:28
kidnapping and hypnotizing young women to be turned into soup for
2:37:32
his boss. So it's not really turning it on
2:37:36
its head so much because although the characters are
2:37:40
treated in a way that is unacceptable, they're also
2:37:43
villains as well. So it's like almost having its
2:37:45
cake and eating it. And now I've tied myself in
2:37:47
knots again. But I don't.
2:37:50
I just, it just felt kind of although you've got the period
2:37:54
and although you've got Jay going Lightfoot, and although
2:37:56
you've got all the other things, it didn't feel like something I
2:37:59
want to watch again. It just felt mean and yeah, just
2:38:06
nasty, really. Nasty taste in the mouth, yeah.
2:38:08
Despite despite the rat, which is adorable.
2:38:11
James Lark said. He said sickly, didn't he?
2:38:13
He's got a There's just. Something about it that's kind
2:38:16
of, and I suppose that means it's capturing the period
2:38:18
because there are Victorian stories that you read and you
2:38:20
think, oh, I wish I hadn't read that, but yeah, I've obviously
2:38:24
talked myself into a hole again, but never mind, I would like to
2:38:27
put it in the bin. Fabulous.
2:38:29
Thank you, Lucy. Joe.
2:38:32
I've got one more point to say on the racism angle and then I
2:38:35
just want to drop it. And that is I think that there
2:38:39
is a reaction to a viewership now watching this and being
2:38:44
judge mental about it. And like when you have episodes
2:38:47
like Thin Ice where the Doctor punch is a racist or you have
2:38:50
episodes like Rosa where she confronts, you know, she says, I
2:38:54
don't recognise anybody of that description and actually calling
2:38:57
out the racism and and obviously that is the better approach.
2:39:01
But then you have another celebrated Doctor Who story,
2:39:04
Human Nature, which has a massive racist at the heart of
2:39:07
it. And that's Joan Redfern.
2:39:08
And people love that story and they ignore that really
2:39:12
troubling aspect of her character it.
2:39:15
It does. I think particularly with Modern
2:39:17
Who because because I'm saying, oh, it was made in 1970s, but I
2:39:21
was born in 1973. Modern, Who is being watched by
2:39:24
people who were children when they watched it.
2:39:27
And so they feel like it's too modern for this to have a
2:39:30
character like that at the center of it.
2:39:33
Whereas she also was reflecting the views held by a lot of
2:39:37
people at the time and the idea that the character can be, in a
2:39:42
way, simple. Well, I mean, look at what's his
2:39:44
name, Mike, in remembrance of the Daleks.
2:39:48
Yeah, no. Look at the Doctor in the
2:39:51
Shakespeare code where he says just walk around like you own
2:39:54
the place, Martha, you'll be all right.
2:39:56
Not really. Not really a nice boy, was he?
2:39:58
Mike What? What I would say is in human
2:40:00
nature is what the doctor should do is when he gets his memories
2:40:03
back is go, well, you're a horrible old racist, see you
2:40:06
later. Instead, he says, come with me
2:40:08
on my adventures, you know? Then and then goes to visit her
2:40:11
on his point of death. It makes her a more interesting
2:40:13
character. It makes her a more nuanced
2:40:16
character. I it's just I do just find it
2:40:20
problematic how this story is picked on and there are
2:40:24
problems, but I just find it problematic anyway.
2:40:27
I'll I'll I'll move on from it. Otherwise we will go round and
2:40:29
around in circles. I've.
2:40:31
Already done that so. I'm I'm really glad that my
2:40:33
somewhat clumsy point about race and this story has led to this.
2:40:37
I'm sure, I'm sure people will be throwing bricks at me
2:40:40
virtually as soon. As it does.
2:40:41
No. Probably me for trying to defend
2:40:43
this thing, Lucy. I'm not.
2:40:45
I'm not did criticizing or defending.
2:40:46
I mean, I want to be because I didn't enjoy it.
2:40:51
I want to keep it because I love it and I'm with Lee I.
2:40:55
It's one of my favourite Doctor Who stories of all time, if not
2:40:58
my favorite Doctor Who is all done.
2:41:00
I like the more ghoulish aspects or you know, the horror aspects
2:41:05
of this. I like all the different roots
2:41:08
that seep into the story, all the Victoriana that Holmes puts
2:41:11
into it, most of why, Just like how funny this is.
2:41:14
It's one of the wittiest Doctor Who scripts of all time, and
2:41:18
it's being brought to life by some of the best character
2:41:20
actors the show's ever had. So those lines just sing.
2:41:23
You know, the most formidable combination in the annals of
2:41:28
criminology. It's an honor and a privilege to
2:41:30
be working with you on this devilish affair.
2:41:33
You know it. It is that one zinger after
2:41:36
another, one great character after another.
2:41:38
Jaco and Lightfoot was so successful, Big Finish ably
2:41:42
proved that they had the legs to have their own series.
2:41:45
And as much shame as we thrown at Big Finish, that Jaco and
2:41:48
Lightfoot series is brilliant and Trevor Baxter and
2:41:52
Christopher Benjamin were they were good enough to do it and
2:41:55
it's a shame it never happened. So Django and laughter are are
2:41:59
one of my reasons I'd like to put this through.
2:42:01
I love the fact that we get scenes with them with the Doctor
2:42:05
and Leela on their own in the first four episodes, and then
2:42:08
how they come together to give the story a kick up the ass
2:42:10
again in the last two episodes. And their chemistry is just
2:42:14
divine. But like the scene between Leela
2:42:17
and Lightfoot where she's eating the meat, you know, from the
2:42:21
table, and then he sits there and he does it with her just
2:42:24
because he's so polite, such a Victorian gentleman.
2:42:27
It's just gorgeous, this characterization and all the
2:42:30
scenes with Jago and the Doctor. You know, don't bother coming
2:42:34
back on Saturday. Oh, well, that is just
2:42:37
wonderful. A money spider.
2:42:40
Just hilarious. So I love Jago and Lightfoot.
2:42:43
I'll put them, I'll put this through just for them.
2:42:45
But I also think it's the best Doctor of companion combination
2:42:49
ever. For this story alone.
2:42:51
I don't think the Doctor and Leela work particularly well in
2:42:55
season 15, but I think in Robots are Deaf and Talented.
2:42:58
When Cheyenne, you have a 1-2 punch with two phenomenal actors
2:43:03
that the look on his face when she comes in wearing the dress.
2:43:06
You know, he's absolutely bewitched.
2:43:08
And apparently that wasn't in the script.
2:43:09
Tom said, I want no, I want to I want to be dazzled by her coming
2:43:13
in, you know, wonderful together.
2:43:15
Look how Doctor Blue guards, you know, going down in the sewer to
2:43:19
face the rat to get all of it. It's all just wonderful.
2:43:24
And the third reason I want to put this through is it does
2:43:27
something really unusual and it does those scenes in the theatre
2:43:31
in episode 4. So the pace slows down a lot and
2:43:34
the suspense comes from when is Chang going to make his move on
2:43:39
the stage. And all of those scenes, Daisy,
2:43:45
Daisy, you know, the card trick, all of it.
2:43:48
It's one of the best episodes of Doctor Whoever.
2:43:50
For once, we just forget about the monsters and the aliens and
2:43:53
all of this, and we're just sucked into the period
2:43:56
atmosphere of the time. It's unbelievable.
2:43:58
It's unbelievable. We just watch a theatre show for
2:44:00
an episode. It's just the production value
2:44:04
on this thing is out of this world.
2:44:05
It's one of the best looking Doctor Who stories of all time.
2:44:08
Dudley Simpson is on fire there. I just.
2:44:11
Apart from the obvious problem, I can't see any problems with
2:44:16
this at all. It is practically flawless.
2:44:19
I'm putting it through. Hey, I've got the casting vote.
2:44:22
Yeah, sorry, I'm not going to address the issue in the room,
2:44:26
the elephant in the room or even the rat in the room.
2:44:29
I'm going to avoid that one. Now.
2:44:30
I think we've talked it to death, but I am also this one
2:44:34
through one final little sad anecdote from my sad childhood.
2:44:40
No, we love them. Come on.
2:44:41
So. I came home from school, primary
2:44:44
school, at lunchtime. New copy of the Radio Times was
2:44:47
waiting on the table for me. I flip it open to Saturday
2:44:51
night. It's part one of a new story and
2:44:54
the the write up says the doctor plans to take Leela to a
2:44:57
Victorian Music Hall. But murder and a sinister
2:45:01
marionette spoil That evening I was well, I was tense.
2:45:06
I wasn't orgasmic, but I was fine.
2:45:09
I was so unbelievably enriched by that description that just
2:45:15
fired so much in my mind. I got my mother to phone my
2:45:20
father at work so that I could read the synopsis on the phone
2:45:25
to him. I was so excited.
2:45:28
I'm Needless to say my father was not enamoured either by the
2:45:32
fact that my mother had called him during the day, and
2:45:34
certainly not by the fact I was reading out a plot of a
2:45:37
forthcoming episode of Doctor Who.
2:45:39
Nevertheless, it did not say what.
2:45:41
Excited you so much, Is it? Was it the musical theatre
2:45:44
aspect of it? I think it was the Victoriana,
2:45:47
the sinister marionette. It just sounded so unutterably
2:45:51
enticing. I just thought it just sounded
2:45:54
wonderful. So yeah, And it and it didn't
2:45:56
disappoint me when I watched it. So no, in many ways, this is
2:45:59
absolutely traditional. Holmes and Hinchcliffe taking
2:46:02
literary tests, texts, film texts and point out who's spin
2:46:05
on it. So we've got Pygmalion, we've
2:46:07
got Sherlock Holmes, we've got Fu Manchu, Phantom of the Opera,
2:46:10
We've got Charlie Chan, Jack the Ripper, Perils of Pauline.
2:46:14
But I think what's quite different here, I think Holmes
2:46:18
does quite a few subversive things here in the storytelling.
2:46:22
And it reminds me, I'm going off peace because I thought everyone
2:46:24
will talk the obvious thing, so I'm going to do something, talk
2:46:27
something a bit different. There are subversive elements
2:46:29
and storytelling here that remind me of early RTD.
2:46:34
And I don't mean the obvious thing like on Quiet Dead, which
2:46:36
is Victorian setting, fruity characters, Music Hall, and
2:46:40
actually we even get the same beat of the Doctor looking at
2:46:42
Rose the same way that Tom Baker's Doctor looks at Leela's.
2:46:46
You just described Joe, so I'm not talking that one.
2:46:49
I'm talking other ways that the storytelling works.
2:46:52
So my first one is to equate to Love and Monsters.
2:46:55
So in Lover Monsters, Russell gives us Elton Pope, who becomes
2:46:59
far more fleshed out and far more of a real character than
2:47:03
most supporting characters in Doctor Who.
2:47:05
And it's through his eyes that we view the story.
2:47:08
And yeah, whilst Robert Holmes doesn't obviously go to that
2:47:10
extent, I think what we get with Henry Gordon Jago is a character
2:47:15
who's given far more screen time and far more development and the
2:47:18
vast majority of supporting characters, particularly in
2:47:22
classic, who in many ways it's almost his story.
2:47:25
The story starts with him, the story ends with him.
2:47:28
He gets to interact with all the characters, he visits all the
2:47:31
key locations. But the kind of important point
2:47:34
for me is that he gets lots of scenes with characters that the
2:47:37
Doctor and Leela hardly interact with, like Casey.
2:47:40
He's got his own stories, he's got his own now, he's got his
2:47:42
own beats. It is kind of Jayco's story in a
2:47:45
way. Then when Lightfoot is is comes
2:47:48
along, he's almost like the straight man to Jayco's commie
2:47:52
and that's that meeting of opposites which absolutely makes
2:47:55
him a celebrated double act. They were considered
2:47:58
realistically considered for a spin off.
2:48:00
And then obviously, as you rightly say, Joe, those
2:48:02
fantastic series with Big Finish, which they both excelled
2:48:06
at and had great stories. So yeah, I think there's a
2:48:09
there's far more to Henry Gordon Jay Go than you normal
2:48:12
supporting character. My second episode is bad Wolf.
2:48:16
So in the season series one finale, Russell gives us
2:48:20
parodies Big Brother, weakest link, what not to wear.
2:48:23
And it's great to see the dachshund companion in those
2:48:25
kind of familiar settings that we know, which then become
2:48:28
twisted and dangerous. And that means the story have
2:48:31
got the audience have got something grounded that they
2:48:34
know and recognize. And then there's a spin on it.
2:48:36
And we absolutely get the same here because as the part you
2:48:40
just talked about, Joe, that episode or the audience of the
2:48:43
time wouldn't remember, Obviously they wouldn't remember
2:48:45
Victorian Music Hall. But they knew a show called The
2:48:48
Good Old Days, which had been running since 1953, went on till
2:48:52
1983 and was absolutely that recreation of the Victorian
2:48:57
Music Hall with the songs, with all the dialogue, hosted by
2:49:01
Leonard Sachs, who obviously we see stumbling his way gainfully
2:49:04
through Archive Infinity not. A post loop.
2:49:08
Fetch it folia him. Yeah, him.
2:49:10
God. He is the he is the Jago of the
2:49:14
good old days, but the organs knew the good old days so well.
2:49:17
So to drop the story, this Doctor Who story into that
2:49:21
setting and then make the Doctor participate in Chang's act, it's
2:49:25
got the same kind of twisted horror and anticipation that
2:49:29
you've got in Bad Wolf, which I think is really clever.
2:49:33
And Holmes, again, doing things way ahead of his time.
2:49:36
For my third, who referenced, I was going to give aliens of
2:49:40
London because obviously there we've got a pig in a space suit,
2:49:43
and here we've got a pig in a country, a quick stomach.
2:49:45
But I'm not going to do that one.
2:49:47
I'm going to do the empty child. Because just as Moffitt's story
2:49:50
has got all that iconic iconography of World War 2, here
2:49:55
we've got all the visual imagery of Victoriana.
2:49:58
And this story absolutely wallows in it compared to the
2:50:02
most recent kind of Victorian story of Islam, which is
2:50:05
pyramids, which doesn't really capitalize on that that period
2:50:08
peace so much. This is just swathed in
2:50:12
Victorian London got all level society.
2:50:15
You got the street prostitutes, you got opium dens, you got the
2:50:19
mudlarks in episode one. And then we go up to the the
2:50:22
grand houses and the buffets that Lightfoot enjoys.
2:50:25
You got handsome cabs, swirling fog.
2:50:27
It's pure Victorian melodrama. Unlike The Empty Child, it's all
2:50:31
set at night and it's just pure undiluted Victoriana.
2:50:35
Isn't it brilliant? So yeah, I am putting this this
2:50:38
through and I'm not mentioning the rat in the room.
2:50:42
It's going through and we are on to round two.
2:50:46
Yeah, Can I just say? This, can I just say at this
2:50:49
point, this is quite an entertaining novelty for me
2:50:51
being a Scottish football fan to get beyond the first round.
2:50:53
It's all going to enjoy this for all it's worth.
2:50:59
I'm sorry, that's a. Football Reference What?
2:51:01
Language do you speak? You misjudge your audience, Sir.
2:51:05
I'll explain later. I heard some cheering yesterday
2:51:09
but I figured a lot of people were having sex.
2:51:14
Right, let's go to round two. We've only lost one.
2:51:17
We've lost the face of evil, you swine.
2:51:20
So music. Joe Cab music a go.
2:51:25
And we start with the hand of fear, and the hand of fear is
2:51:30
up. Oh dear.
2:51:31
Hand of fear versus robots of death.
2:51:34
I think I might know where this one is going.
2:51:37
Let's start with Lee. I am going to cast my vote for
2:51:42
the Hand of Fear above the Robots of Death because laying
2:51:46
the cards on the table, it's my favorite of the series for all
2:51:49
the reasons I mentioned earlier on.
2:51:51
It's death competition in the former Robots of Death, but I'm
2:51:54
going to go for the underdog in this occasion.
2:51:57
I'm going to go for Hand of Fear to go through.
2:51:59
Brilliant, Lucy. I'm going to go for Robots of
2:52:03
Death because I find it more entertaining.
2:52:06
Hand of Fear I really like. It's very good, but it's not one
2:52:09
that I would necessarily go back to too many times.
2:52:14
Bad comments, Joe, I'm. Going to go for the Hand of Fear
2:52:19
because I love Robots of Death and I loved it on this watch.
2:52:24
I didn't think I loved Hand of Fear and I loved it on this
2:52:27
watch. It's the one of the year that
2:52:28
surprised me the most and moved me the most.
2:52:31
The hand of Fear. Right, do you know what I am
2:52:37
going to go for the hand of fear.
2:52:41
And the reason I'm going for The Hand of Fear is 3 words, Sarah
2:52:46
Jane Smith and it's her leaving. And that is such a momentous
2:52:51
moment in Doctor Who. For me personally, after the
2:52:54
whole of Doctor Who, I think because she's been there 3 1/2
2:52:57
years, Tom and her we getting 1415 million viewers.
2:53:02
People loved her. I absolutely loved her and that
2:53:05
end scene. You couldn't write a more
2:53:07
glorious ending scene if you tried today.
2:53:11
So I'm going to be controversial and we are putting through the
2:53:14
hand of fear and booting out the robots of death.
2:53:17
I think it's Joyce, Rod. I don't care for the art to see
2:53:20
it. I always thought you're a good
2:53:21
guy, so let's get friends. But good.
2:53:24
If you can listen very carefully, you can hear Zelda
2:53:27
crying in the distance. Do you want to give her a first
2:53:30
of her crying? OK, we're now having lots of
2:53:37
people throwing hands at us, I would imagine.
2:53:39
So let's roll the wheel and we have deadly assassin Blaze and a
2:53:51
fear. And a fear.
2:53:56
Deadly Assassin. And a fear.
2:54:06
And a fear. Oh.
2:54:07
My goodness. Oh.
2:54:09
Yes. What is going on?
2:54:12
No, I did enjoy, I did enjoy Deadly Assassin, but of the two
2:54:16
and a fear. Yes, I beloved Dave, deadly
2:54:19
assassin Raiken. It's an easy choice.
2:54:21
It's and a fear. What we're saying about the
2:54:24
assassin wasn't a bit. I genuinely meant that.
2:54:27
Well, this is the home you would not be expecting Mask, Hand of
2:54:31
Fear and Talons to be the final thing, I don't think.
2:54:35
Usually the big hitters are Deadly Assassin, Robot Step and
2:54:38
Talent. So one of the big hitters is
2:54:41
here, Let's spin the wheel, and we've got the Hand of Fear this
2:54:44
time up against Mask Mandragera. Oh, fear.
2:54:52
And the fear for me under fear for me.
2:54:57
Don't forget me. Don't you forget me.
2:55:03
All right, don't care. Tough, tough, tough, tough,
2:55:10
tough, tough, but I'll stick with my initial thoughts on this
2:55:16
episode. Given the two, I'm going to go
2:55:18
Hand a Fear because it's the better story.
2:55:20
I think Masks has got a lot going for it, but Hand a Fear
2:55:23
just just shades it for me. And I'm going to stay with Moss
2:55:28
because I enjoy it more. So we are down to the final two
2:55:33
and the fear. And no one saw that coming.
2:55:37
And talons. They never do on this show.
2:55:41
So ladies, gentlemen, let's start with Lucy Talons or Hand.
2:55:48
And the fear, because I like it better.
2:55:51
Lee. To completely contradict what I
2:55:55
said earlier on, I'm going to go Hands of Fear because it's my
2:55:58
favorite story this season despite how good, for all its
2:56:01
flaws, talent Wenchuyang is and I just fancy being contrary.
2:56:05
So how about that under Fear? I've never saw this.
2:56:10
Calvin Joe. I think Talons Wing Chiag is one
2:56:19
of the best Doctor Who stories ever.
2:56:21
I had to feel was a lovely surprise this season.
2:56:24
I'm going with Talons. Oh, you're putting me in a
2:56:28
difficult position here. Oh.
2:56:30
No, I wanted to. Do I break the dash long?
2:56:35
Oh. Come on guys, do the right
2:56:38
thing. My heart says talons.
2:56:43
My heart also says hand of fear because of Sarah.
2:56:48
Two hearts. Topical.
2:56:49
I want a bath. I just want to feel human again.
2:56:53
Let's. Tilt until we meet again, Sarah.
2:56:57
Oh fuck it, Hand of fear, you've won me over.
2:57:04
Eldrad not. Live Eldrad tops the season 14
2:57:11
strictly come hamster. Who saw that coming?
2:57:14
Tin hats on everybody. Absolutely bricks to come flying
2:57:18
in. Oh, they usually are Lucy.
2:57:20
They usually are I. Mean there's one cliche in
2:57:22
Strictly come hamster is if it's a Sarah Jane dominated story
2:57:26
score reunion. Hand of Fear wins the year.
2:57:29
Good, good. Because Elizabeth Sladen is so
2:57:32
fabulous. Yes, she can't go wrong.
2:57:35
Wow. OK, so we've got to the end of a
2:57:37
controversial episode. Lucy Lee, thank you so much for
2:57:41
helping us get to that conclusion.
2:57:44
And would you like to tell people where they can find you
2:57:47
on social media or point them to anything in particular?
2:57:50
Lucy, I'm. Not sure they'll want to, to be
2:57:52
honest after all that, do you? Want to go into hiding after
2:57:56
that? I love following you on social
2:57:57
media. Okay, well, in case anybody does
2:58:00
want to follow me on social media with a half brick in a
2:58:02
silk or otherwise, I am Lucy McCall on Twitter and various
2:58:09
sort of versions of that on Blue Sky and Facebook and Instagram,
2:58:14
some of which I check more often than others because there's just
2:58:17
too much now and I'm old and tired.
2:58:21
I've got I've got some fan fiction which you can also throw
2:58:26
bricks at if you want to on who fick.com and I wrote a couple of
2:58:31
stories which I would advise I would ask you not to throw
2:58:34
bricks at because other people were involved that the people at
2:58:37
who corner to corner have turned into audio place.
2:58:41
Wonderful. Lucy, are you allowed to talk
2:58:43
about something else? No.
2:58:45
OK, then we won't mention something else.
2:58:47
Good. In a future episode, we'll
2:58:49
mention something else. Yeah.
2:58:50
What a cliffhanger. Absolutely.
2:58:52
What a tease. OK.
2:58:55
And Lee? Yes Phil, the Polish box is for
2:59:00
bread and butter. Me, David Cameron.
2:59:02
We are back back, back on Thursday with the TV movie going
2:59:08
on trial. If you've never heard the police
2:59:09
box, the premise of the podcast, there's we take an episode of
2:59:12
Doctor Who. We put it on trial.
2:59:14
Somebody defends somebody, he prosecutes.
2:59:16
Live vote as it's on live on YouTube and you get to decide
2:59:21
the outcome of the episode. You can decide well, it's
2:59:24
drafted into our official unofficial Canon of Doctor Who
2:59:27
or booted into the wilderness. We've got some bloke called Joe
2:59:30
Ford on Thursday night. Who?
2:59:32
No idea. I've heard he's terrible.
2:59:35
Yeah. I mean, it's on.
2:59:36
It's on everything. I think it's overexposed.
2:59:38
It's. Just it's just knob joke, knob
2:59:40
joke after knob joke. Yeah, I wouldn't.
2:59:42
I wouldn't bother. Really brings the tone down, do
2:59:44
you know? What?
2:59:45
There's literally gonna be like seven straight men on that call.
2:59:48
I'm gonna be in my element. All your Christmases come at
2:59:51
once, isn't? It.
2:59:53
Well, something's come at once anyway.
2:59:55
Look at him down there. He's so handsome.
2:59:57
Oh, I'm gonna have a great time. Fantastic.
3:00:02
Like the Polish box, and if you go to YouTube every second,
3:00:05
first people are there and it's just search for the Polish box
3:00:07
but the first thing that pops up.
3:00:08
So that's where you find this. By the sound of it won't be the
3:00:11
first thing that pops up for Joe on Thursday It.
3:00:15
Is a heavenly Doctor Who podcast stroke YouTube channel.
3:00:20
Please everybody check it out. Oh my God, it's wonderful to be
3:00:24
a part of but it's just as fun. I'll get in snacks, you know,
3:00:27
when I'm not on it, and I'll sit there tweeting on you guys to
3:00:29
say terrible things to each other.
3:00:34
Fantastic. Well, we've come to the end,
3:00:36
Joe, of yet another controversial episode.
3:00:38
Next. I'm talking of controversial
3:00:40
episodes. Our next episode is going to be
3:00:42
I Better say This quietly, Series 7 Bay with Matt Smith.
3:00:48
The comments are already rolling in, so thank you for those.
3:00:52
Run, you impossible boy. And Joe, stop wearing that tight
3:00:58
skirt. Oh, I didn't stand up for that
3:01:00
reason. Can I misquote something that I
3:01:03
said earlier, please? I feel as if this has been the
3:01:07
most formidable combination in the annals of podcastography.
3:01:12
It has been my delight and pleasure to be discussing these
3:01:15
stories in this devilish affair. That's all I wanted to say.
3:01:19
Well, we. Started with that quote and we
3:01:21
ended with that quote. So thank you all for listening
3:01:25
and until next time, good night everybody.
3:01:31
Good night. Bye
3:01:56
the.