Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Building the Future Physician Workforce Through Medical Education Partnerships with Leon Clark & Dr. Peter Broderick

Transcript

Building the Future Physician Workforce Through Medical Education Partnerships with Leon Clark & Dr. Peter Broderick · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  - There's a small circle of people who truly
• 0:04
  - understand what it takes to lead a health
• 0:05
  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
• 0:08
  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
• 0:11
  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
• 0:14
  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
• 0:17
  - And it's why the most effective c suite
• 0:19
  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
• 0:21
  - pressure test their thinking.
• 0:22
  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
• 0:28
  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - have easy answers.
• 0:39
  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit becker'shospitalreview.com
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  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
• 0:50
  - This is Laura Dierdahl with the Becker's Healthcare
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  - podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined by
• 0:55
  - Leon Clark, vice president and chief academic affairs
• 0:58
  - officer at Sutter Health, and doctor Peter Broderick,
• 1:00
  - director of undergraduate medical education department and executive
• 1:04
  - consultant in graduate medical education at Sutter Health.
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  - Leon, doctor Broderick, it's a pleasure to have
• 1:09
  - you both on the podcast today. It's our
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  - pleasure to be here.
• 1:13
  - Yes. Now I'm excited for our conversation. I
• 1:15
  - know we're gonna talk about some of the
• 1:17
  - big issues plaguing many health systems, looking at
• 1:19
  - physician shortages,
• 1:21
  - rising medical education costs, and some of the
• 1:23
  - disparities in care as well, and how you're
• 1:26
  - addressing that at Sutter Health
• 1:27
  - through a partnership with the Charles R. Drew
• 1:29
  - University
• 1:31
  - of Medicine. I I think it's an exciting
• 1:33
  - way to think about how the next generation
• 1:35
  - of physicians,
• 1:37
  - is gonna grow and lead and and strengthen
• 1:39
  - that pipeline,
• 1:40
  - of folks not only who are committed to
• 1:42
  - providing health care, but those with diverse backgrounds
• 1:45
  - who can serve these communities in a very
• 1:47
  - strong way. So
• 1:48
  - I'd love to hear first and foremost, Leon,
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  - could you tell us a little bit about
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  - that partnership and the program that you're working
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  - on there at Sutter Health? I would love
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  - to get a a little bit of a
• 1:57
  - lay of land of what the program is
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  - and,
• 2:00
  - how you're working on this partnership to strengthen
• 2:02
  - the pipeline for the future.
• 2:05
  - Sure. Thanks for the question, Laura.
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  - Let me first start by, talking a little
• 2:10
  - bit about, why Charles Drew and and and
• 2:12
  - Sutter, came together.
• 2:14
  - I think, both organizations
• 2:16
  - share this, commitment to educating
• 2:19
  - future physicians,
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  - but it's really about expanding access and improving
• 2:24
  - health care outcomes.
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  - What attracted us to Charles Drew, quite frankly,
• 2:28
  - is that they bring this,
• 2:30
  - long standing mission of preparing health care,
• 2:33
  - leaders dedicated to,
• 2:35
  - serving the underserved.
• 2:37
  - And when you combine that with, Sutter's,
• 2:42
  - scale of an integrated health care delivery system,
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  - and our capabilities
• 2:47
  - and clinical training, mentorship,
• 2:49
  - and research opportunities,
• 2:51
  - together,
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  - we believe that, you know, we can create
• 2:54
  - pathways that,
• 2:55
  - neither organization could have done, on its own.
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  - The partnership has three primary components.
• 3:02
  - One is, we provide,
• 3:04
  - Sutter provides
• 3:05
  - full tuition scholarships for,
• 3:08
  - 50 of our, Drew students or 50 Drew
• 3:10
  - students,
• 3:12
  - over a five year period.
• 3:14
  - We also provide,
• 3:16
  - clinical clerkships or clinical training,
• 3:19
  - for their, medical students.
• 3:21
  - And then there is a a research alliance,
• 3:24
  - where together,
• 3:25
  - we,
• 3:27
  - try to divide,
• 3:29
  - design interventions,
• 3:31
  - that improve health care outcomes for the communities
• 3:34
  - in which,
• 3:35
  - we operate.
• 3:36
  - And again, I think this is a opportunity
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  - for both organizations to leverage,
• 3:41
  - their respective expertise
• 3:43
  - to really improve,
• 3:44
  - health care outcomes for all.
• 3:47
  - That's amazing to hear, and it seems like
• 3:49
  - such a great opportunity to not only strengthen
• 3:53
  - the pipeline of clinical leaders coming into the
• 3:55
  - organization, but also provide such needed services,
• 3:59
  - to the community
• 4:00
  - where where you operate.
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  - So, from your perspective,
• 4:04
  - you know, what does it take
• 4:06
  - to build a program like this? How do
• 4:08
  - you really make sure you've got the right,
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  - people in place to provide that mentorship and
• 4:13
  - and build
• 4:15
  - a program that will actually bring in folks
• 4:17
  - who then stay in the community and become
• 4:20
  - part of the larger health care delivery team?
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  - Well, I'll start out, and I know that,
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  - doctor Broderick will, also want to opine. I
• 4:28
  - think, I I think it requires some intentionality.
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  - On the Sutter side, of course,
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  - long before we signed our partnership agreement,
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  - we made sure that we had physicians and
• 4:40
  - administrative leaders,
• 4:42
  - across the organization who,
• 4:44
  - recognized the need to develop
• 4:46
  - a strong clinical
• 4:48
  - pipeline given the shortage of physicians that,
• 4:51
  - is not only projected for California, but the
• 4:53
  - nation, writ large.
• 4:56
  - And, we have, come to understand,
• 4:59
  - that you can't really recruit your way out
• 5:01
  - of the workforce shortage.
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  - We believe that the best workforce strategy is
• 5:05
  - to actually help build the workforce itself.
• 5:08
  - And, we also recognize that the physician pipeline
• 5:11
  - begins long, before residency. And so creating these
• 5:14
  - pathways,
• 5:16
  - is, not only the right thing to do,
• 5:18
  - but it's, the strategic thing to do, and
• 5:21
  - in order to support the,
• 5:23
  - aspirations of, Sutter Health as a
• 5:26
  - growing,
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  - health care delivery system that wishes to serve,
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  - more more patients. So, you know, part of
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  - how we make this work is by securing
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  - the commitment from,
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  - Sutter Health leadership, writ large, the physicians who
• 5:41
  - ultimately
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  - provide,
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  - mentorship and clinical training,
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  - to the Charles Drew students.
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  - It involves engaging,
• 5:50
  - CDU,
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  - leadership,
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  - in making sure that their students are well
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  - prepared when they show up on to our
• 5:58
  - campus,
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  - and ready to, you know, experience,
• 6:02
  - you know, clinical training and clinical care and
• 6:04
  - research,
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  - in our environment.
• 6:07
  - But, Peter, what would you what what did
• 6:09
  - I miss, and what would you add?
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  - Yeah. Well, thank you, Leon. You know, Laura,
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  - you know, the scholarship and partnership
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  - are really the visible commitment,
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  - but the real work is building the clinical
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  - learning infrastructure, as Leon was saying. You know,
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  - it allows students to become confident, community oriented
• 6:25
  - physicians and,
• 6:27
  - etcetera.
• 6:27
  - That means clerkships,
• 6:29
  - need preceptors, preceptor engagement,
• 6:32
  - site readiness,
• 6:33
  - housing, we provide for our students since they
• 6:36
  - are, some distance from their home,
• 6:38
  - onboarding support, helping them learn our EMR,
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  - feedback systems,
• 6:44
  - and a learning environment where the students can
• 6:45
  - really turn
• 6:47
  - their classroom knowledge into patient care. And it
• 6:49
  - really gives them an authentic experience
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  - of what it will be like for their
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  - future career. And it's really it's not just,
• 6:56
  - as Leon says, a scholarship program or relationship.
• 7:00
  - It's a pipeline strategy. And so by showing
• 7:03
  - them
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  - what a highly accountable health care system can
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  - deliver
• 7:07
  - in terms of quality patient care, I think
• 7:09
  - our hope is that it inspires them and
• 7:12
  - even hopefully consider, you know, practice within our
• 7:15
  - region and and keeping them within California.
• 7:19
  - Absolutely. That sounds amazing to hear, you know,
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  - really a smart way to think about strategy
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  - and be upstream when you look at where
• 7:25
  - the clinical workforce is headed and what's gonna
• 7:28
  - be most valuable in the future.
• 7:30
  - I'm curious.
• 7:31
  - As you have gone through this process and
• 7:33
  - and matured the partnership,
• 7:35
  - what have you learned along the way? Is
• 7:36
  - there anything that you have pivoted or adjusted
• 7:39
  - as time went on, to really
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  - make these types of,
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  - scholarships and the experience more valuable?
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  - Yeah. I think, you know, one of the
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  - first things
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  - being a physician
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  - is kind of an entry into being a
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  - teacher, but that isn't enough in and of
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  - itself. You have to do
• 7:57
  - preceptor development. You have to have engaged, enthusiastic
• 8:01
  - preceptors because they're really the gateway to,
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  - you know, the aspirational,
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  - desire of the students to become excellent clinicians.
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  - And so choosing our preceptors, having them trained,
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  - having our site directors also be attentive to
• 8:17
  - the learning environment
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  - such that the students are embedded into the
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  - health care system, not just observing it. They're
• 8:24
  - participating
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  - alongside our clinicians,
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  - our our residents in which they, also co
• 8:29
  - learn, and that kind of environment is a
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  - really authentic
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  - experience for the students, gets them out of
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  - the classroom,
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  - and starts to make their their learning,
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  - real and really applied.
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  - So it does take some infrastructure work. It
• 8:42
  - takes some encouragement.
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  - It takes some faculty development.
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  - And, you know, the time and incentives need
• 8:49
  - to be recognized
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  - as in competition to a lot of other
• 8:52
  - demands on our clinicians. And I think Sutter's
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  - done a great job in trying to balance
• 8:57
  - those demands and support the medical education enterprise
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  - that we're developing.
• 9:02
  - And, Peter, if I could just add to
• 9:03
  - that, Peter and Laura. I think the other
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  - thing that we've, we've learned and,
• 9:09
  - are are
• 9:10
  - is essentially,
• 9:11
  - reacting to
• 9:13
  - is, we're coming into an understanding that scholarships
• 9:16
  - alone isn't enough.
• 9:18
  - But it's really about,
• 9:20
  - pairing the students with,
• 9:23
  - interested faculty,
• 9:25
  - providing mentorship, providing research,
• 9:28
  - experiences. In other words, you know, building a
• 9:30
  - connection,
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  - with the students beyond, you know, the scholarships
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  - is really gonna make the the difference. What
• 9:36
  - we're developing is,
• 9:38
  - relationships,
• 9:40
  - you know, with the students, with the university,
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  - such that,
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  - over time,
• 9:46
  - they can see themselves part of our system,
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  - part of, you know, serving the needs of
• 9:51
  - communities in, California,
• 9:54
  - writ large.
• 9:56
  - That makes a lot of sense and is
• 9:57
  - really valuable information. I know that have a
• 10:00
  - program like this, I can imagine it is
• 10:02
  - a lot of moving parts and it takes
• 10:04
  - a lot of enthusiasm, energy,
• 10:06
  - and people who are really committed to seeing
• 10:09
  - this pipeline be successful.
• 10:11
  - I'm curious too. I know as you mentioned,
• 10:14
  - being able to provide
• 10:16
  - the access for medical students who have, significant
• 10:20
  - financial barriers as well, providing the scholarships, housing,
• 10:23
  - and more.
• 10:24
  - How are you able to make sure you
• 10:26
  - have,
• 10:27
  - a program that's financially sustainable, especially
• 10:30
  - thinking about how,
• 10:33
  - the finances in in
• 10:34
  - in health care overall are challenging in many
• 10:37
  - ways. So it's great that you have this
• 10:39
  - commitment and then being able to,
• 10:41
  - create the type of program that will be
• 10:43
  - sustainable.
• 10:45
  - I just love to hear how you make
• 10:47
  - sure that the finances
• 10:49
  - are every dollar counts, basically.
• 10:52
  - Yeah. I think from the very beginning, we've
• 10:54
  - we,
• 10:55
  - thought about, financial sustainability.
• 10:57
  - And, there's a couple ways to, in in
• 11:00
  - which we think about it. One,
• 11:02
  - this is a investment in the future workforce
• 11:05
  - of,
• 11:06
  - Sutter Health,
• 11:07
  - and a way to invest in,
• 11:10
  - communities across, California
• 11:13
  - by providing,
• 11:14
  - you know, pathways for, new physicians who, like,
• 11:18
  - again, will, you know, serve,
• 11:20
  - the communities in which we operate.
• 11:22
  - I I think when you you think about,
• 11:24
  - the investments that we're making today in the
• 11:27
  - future workforce,
• 11:29
  - with a goal to, you you know, recruit,
• 11:32
  - these,
• 11:33
  - medical students into our residencies and then ultimately
• 11:36
  - into our,
• 11:38
  - aligned medical groups.
• 11:40
  - There is a, a return,
• 11:42
  - on investment that could be,
• 11:44
  - realized from that. Right? When you think about,
• 11:47
  - you know, the cost to recruit
• 11:48
  - a a new physician,
• 11:50
  - we look at this one holistically. We also
• 11:53
  - look at it over over the long run,
• 11:56
  - knowing that the investments we make today will
• 11:58
  - pay off,
• 12:00
  - downstream,
• 12:01
  - not only for us, but for the students
• 12:03
  - themselves. And so, that's,
• 12:06
  - in part how we,
• 12:07
  - we we think about it. It's not just
• 12:10
  - a gift,
• 12:11
  - but it is in fact,
• 12:14
  - an investment in the future workforce of, Upsetter
• 12:17
  - Health
• 12:18
  - and an investment in,
• 12:20
  - California communities, especially those communities that,
• 12:23
  - are most vulnerable.
• 12:26
  - Yeah. And I I would add one more
• 12:28
  - benefit that medical education really affords Sutter.
• 12:33
  - I come from a background in academic medicine,
• 12:35
  - and the and the truth is there are
• 12:37
  - many,
• 12:37
  - clinicians who find the combination of medical practice
• 12:42
  - and and teaching to be a very enlivening
• 12:44
  - experience and help them, you know, keep their
• 12:47
  - verve for their profession and their calling. And
• 12:50
  - we have seen a great, response to the
• 12:53
  - growth in medical education in terms of recruitment
• 12:55
  - of
• 12:56
  - highly talented
• 12:57
  - clinicians who are both excellent
• 13:00
  - in their specialty, but also excellent teachers. And
• 13:03
  - not every health care system can offer that.
• 13:05
  - So I think it does give Sutter a
• 13:07
  - competitive advantage in terms of recruiting excellent talent.
• 13:11
  - And what that really does for our patients
• 13:13
  - is expand access to care, the highest quality
• 13:16
  - care,
• 13:17
  - that we achieve, and also gives the students
• 13:20
  - the aspirational view of what their future could
• 13:23
  - be in a system like Sutter's.
• 13:26
  - Absolutely. That makes a lot of sense. And,
• 13:28
  - you know, it's fascinating to think about,
• 13:30
  - that mindset in in truly transforming how you're
• 13:33
  - looking at these types of programs, giving Sutter
• 13:35
  - the competitive advantage and being able to continue
• 13:38
  - down that pathway of high quality care. Now
• 13:41
  - I'm curious if either of you are able
• 13:44
  - to share, you know, some of the the
• 13:47
  - fruits, I suppose, of this program or any
• 13:49
  - specific things that you've noticed as a result
• 13:51
  - of being able to have this type of
• 13:53
  - partnership,
• 13:54
  - successes that you've had, and,
• 13:56
  - just ways that you've seen really,
• 13:59
  - that talent pipeline turnaround a bit.
• 14:03
  - Well, I think one of the things that
• 14:04
  - I find most gratifying and we just finished
• 14:06
  - our first,
• 14:07
  - cohort of third year students.
• 14:10
  - So in medical school, traditionally, the first two
• 14:13
  - years are often basic sciences and and, the
• 14:17
  - classroom learning.
• 14:18
  - But the second two years, the the third
• 14:20
  - and fourth years, are particularly important for the
• 14:23
  - development of professional identity.
• 14:25
  - And in the third year, the the all
• 14:27
  - medical students are required to take certain core
• 14:29
  - clerkships, and Sutter is offering currently
• 14:32
  - core clerkships to the CDU in family medicine,
• 14:35
  - neurology, pediatrics,
• 14:37
  - surgery, and internal medicine.
• 14:40
  - And the feedback we've gotten from the students,
• 14:42
  - has been very gratifying. One student, you know,
• 14:45
  - said that
• 14:46
  - their preceptor really,
• 14:48
  - challenged their thinking in a very supportive way,
• 14:51
  - used opportunities and gaps of knowledge as opportunities
• 14:54
  - for learning, not as, criticism or critique.
• 14:57
  - And in working with the residents,
• 15:00
  - you know, they're they're on the learning continuum
• 15:02
  - as well,
• 15:03
  - and that relationship
• 15:04
  - often is very,
• 15:06
  - supportive
• 15:07
  - of the students' growth. And the feedback we've
• 15:10
  - gotten from our first first cohort of third
• 15:12
  - years has been really gratifying to see.
• 15:15
  - That's amazing to hear. Now before we wrap
• 15:18
  - up, I wanted to ask you all about
• 15:19
  - the future as well. What are you excited
• 15:21
  - about for the growth of this partnership? What
• 15:23
  - does it look like a few years down
• 15:25
  - the line? What are you growing towards
• 15:28
  - and expecting to see as time goes on?
• 15:31
  - Yeah. I'll I'll start and, you know, doctor
• 15:34
  - Broderick, of course, will will amplify. I think,
• 15:37
  - the way I think about it, success,
• 15:39
  - of the partnership over time,
• 15:41
  - means,
• 15:43
  - producing durable pathways,
• 15:45
  - you know, more students can, afford medical school,
• 15:49
  - more CDU learners complete high quality clinical and
• 15:52
  - research experiences, etcetera,
• 15:55
  - and more trainees see Sutter in Northern California
• 15:59
  - as places to continue,
• 16:01
  - their their careers.
• 16:02
  - We also want, as, doctor Breidorke was pointing
• 16:05
  - out,
• 16:06
  - this partnership to ultimately contribute to better access
• 16:10
  - for patients,
• 16:11
  - a stronger physician workforce that reflects,
• 16:15
  - the values and,
• 16:18
  - aspirations of Sutter Health as a system,
• 16:21
  - and measurable academic and community
• 16:24
  - impact.
• 16:25
  - And so, that's what we're looking forward to.
• 16:27
  - That's what we're we're building,
• 16:29
  - towards,
• 16:30
  - as we move forward.
• 16:32
  - Yeah. And I would say one of the
• 16:34
  - other long term,
• 16:36
  - outcomes that I think are going to be
• 16:39
  - really important for Sutter is, you know, my
• 16:42
  - my role is in helping make the clinical
• 16:44
  - education infrastructure reliable, onboarding, site readiness, preceptor engagement,
• 16:48
  - and such. And that is actually laying,
• 16:51
  - you know, sort of the DNA for our
• 16:53
  - future
• 16:54
  - as a medical education
• 16:56
  - enterprise. We're currently in the process now of,
• 17:00
  - in the very early stages of developing a
• 17:02
  - medical school in partnership with a local university,
• 17:05
  - and that gives our preceptors the opportunity to
• 17:09
  - grow
• 17:09
  - even further within the undergraduate med ed environment.
• 17:13
  - So this long term benefit and this continued
• 17:16
  - CDU relationship
• 17:17
  - helped jump start our development as a medical
• 17:20
  - education enterprise as well.
• 17:23
  - Wow. That's that's amazing. Thank you both so
• 17:25
  - much for jumping on the line and and
• 17:27
  - talking about this incredible program. I appreciate your
• 17:30
  - time today, Leon and doctor Broderick, and hopefully
• 17:32
  - we'll be able to catch up again soon
• 17:34
  - once you've spent more time with it and
• 17:36
  - and just really be able to share additional
• 17:38
  - wins and success stories from Sutter and Sutter
• 17:41
  - Home.
• 17:42
  - Well, thank you. It's, it's, our pleasure to
• 17:44
  - join you today, Laura. Thank you for
• 17:47
  - lending the platform, to have this important conversation
• 17:50
  - this morning.
• 17:51
  - Yeah. Thank you very much, Laura.