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Navigating Emotions through Prayer with Anjuli Paschall · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you are new here, then welcome to the community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: So let's get started.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: But in particular, when this book that you're going to hear more about today came across my desk, well, I was delighted because it was a resource I needed, but it was also a resource I felt was really going to benefit you and the community here.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was something I could wholeheartedly endorse.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, it's true.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: So the book is Feel, a collection of liturgies offering hope for every complicated emotion.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the author, Anjulie Pascal, she has written three books.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: This is her third one.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: And she is a spiritual formation and soul care director who lives in Southern California.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: And you're going to hear about her retreat center and all the things that she does as a mom of five as well.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: But oh, the conversation was so good.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: I can't wait for you to hear all the tidbits about why the book was written, how long ago it was started, a little bit about her personality as an Enneagram 3.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then at the end, she gives us a little bit of an inside scoop and reads one of the prayers.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I cried as she read it.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I shouldn't say of course, but I did cry as she read the prayer.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: So the conversation ends a little bit on a tearful note, but a really beautiful one.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think that this conversation is timely.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to share it with you here at the beginning of the holiday season.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe you're listening to it and you're already here and it's Christmas or we just passed it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Either way, this conversation is timely and it's also evergreen.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: You can listen to this anytime, and I think you're going to gain a lot from it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: And you're going to want this book as well.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Feel is just going to be an incredible resource to have on your nightstand, or maybe where you sit in the morning to have coffee with Jesus, or even just to have at your desk or at the ready when you're going through the day and you just need a little help with your prayers.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is the book that you're going to want to get.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: So let's get right to this conversation.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, by the way, before I forget, I have linked the book and Julie's contact information in the show notes, like her Instagram.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it would mean so much to me if you let her know how much you enjoyed this conversation.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: I know that will bless her to have you share specifically what stood out to you in this conversation.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I admit I am new to your world.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And what happened is your publicist sent me your book.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I get a lot of books.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm a little bit picky now because I've been spoiled over the last eight years of podcasting.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: And your book came out of the package, and I was like, what is this?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Truly, truly.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm just so excited to talk about it, but I'm excited to get to know you a little bit better.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: I, of course, have poked around to learn more about you and just know what you are about.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: And you do retreats and you're an author, and sounds like you do a lot of spiritual direction.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: So would you tell me a little bit more about you?
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: What do I do?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um I get that a lot too.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: What do I not do is often better.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it'd be safe to start with.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I live in San Diego.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I am a pastor's wife.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: My husband pastors a church here locally, and together we have five kids.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: My oldest is 17, whom five minutes ago just got in a fight with.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when you started the podcast with a prayer, I was like, Yes, Lord, all is well.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is normal.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then my seven.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a sweet little range of kids, two boys, three girls.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my husband and I really were fortunate at a young age to go through a really amazing program at seminary called ISF, which was Institute for Spiritual Formation.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so we studied so much about the spiritual growth and not only how you grow spiritually, but emotionally and really grow up into maturity.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so our lifelong dream has been to do a retreat center, which we launched last year.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So next door to us, uh, we have another house where currently nine young adults are living that we do a year-long discipleship program with.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, life is beautiful and full and uh filled with lots of tears and filled with lots of laughter and a lot of Seinfeld around 11 p.m.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: at night to fall asleep.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a sweet little snapshot.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's precious.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do do writing as well.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, and just you know, on top of that, you do writing.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So I have the benefit of uh my oldest who is a young freshman um at college.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: She's 17 as well.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we do not yes, yes, she'll be 18 here in a couple months or next month technically.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: We launched her a little bit early, but she's thriving.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll have to say, our conversations are rarely arguing now because now it's just sweet because we're looking forward to connect.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, we talked two hours just yesterday.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, wait a minute, what what is my world now?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: You like me?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna love you.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, it's so sweet.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have a very sweet exchange and she's been on cast episodes before.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: So some of our friends know about her and some of our journey there.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: And we were really dreading the goodbye.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And she's far, she's in Phoenix, so she's closer to you than she is to me.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I lived to tell about the separation.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I can also say I'm living through it in a way that goes, oh, okay, I'm not gonna die.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't catastrophic.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: We will survive, and it can actually be pretty sweet.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I love it.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: I love when moms can speak hope into moms who are in a different season because we need that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And remember when your kids were in like diapers, it's like, please just tell me one day you sleep through the night.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Just please tell me that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes, that's so real.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: And every stage, and I I feel so grateful.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: I work with a lot of moms who are coaches, my clients, and of course, friendships.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And it is the conversation where at this point in time with just teenagers in the house or launched, I go, wow, this is so hard.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought it was really hard when I had three, three, and under.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: And the old ladies who would stop by and be like, oh, precious, just savor the days.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: They go by so fast.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dying.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: I can't sleep.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: And then here we are, right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: And we go, Oh, yeah, that's right.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: It did go by fast.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: And thankfully, we love to tell about it.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: And we went on to do other things with our lives than just change diapers and not sleep.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's so many different things that I'm excited to talk about.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: The book for one.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: I love the idea of a retreat center.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love hosting retreats.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: I've been doing some retreats online, even just like an hour once a month this year, to just foster some of that connection with the Lord and offer different spiritual practice opportunities, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's a whole world out there.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of us mainstream Christians don't know about.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I love opening up that world.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: But tell us a little bit about your personality type as it comes to launching a business, writing a book, launching a book, and all the things included with doing that and being a mom.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, huh.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: On paper, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: The life looks really full.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I really thrive in, I don't even want to say busyness, but I feel like I thrive when I have a lot of plates spinning.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's so it's so activating, it's so invigorating just to passionately pursue things that you are that you deeply feel called to and deeply care about.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, we're tired all the time, we're exhausted all the time.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also would say I feel really alive and really connected to who I am and my vocation.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: When a three talks about being energized by their work, there is a natural drivenness that comes along with the personality and forward facing and future thinking and vision casting, along with owning a business, launching a book, also comes potential for comparison because all these other people are launching these things and doing these things, even growing a church and working as a pastor to your church.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: How do you wrestle through that, or what has been a way through that natural inclination to measure yourselves by certain standards?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or you know, just that that pressure of the matri out there for the three is usually pretty strong.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's incredibly challenging at times.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Amy, I think um in relationship and in regard to comparison, which is a really strong temptation of a three.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking about the Enneagram.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking about like what drives us, what motivates us.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that I don't think it's a great comparison because nothing can totally compare to motherhood.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like with launching a book, this is book number three for me now.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's in so many ways similar to having a third child.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where when you have your first kid, we are so ambitious, are we not?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: We are so like we are gonna do it better than anyone we know.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And anyone who's ever been a mother that's ever lived centuries and centuries before us, they're gonna be trilingual, they're gonna be reading by one, you know.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're so ambitious.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, life really comes with challenges that knock you down, that really humble you, that really make you face your humanity and your brokenness that come, and I think it's a grace as well, but I think come baby two and baby three, and if you have more babies than that, you really, really come to a place of like, oh my gosh, I actually have no control.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I can be responsible for and be faithful to what God has given me, but the result is entirely out of my hands.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we want to treat a book launch or a business or a church or our children kind of like vending machines.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: If we put in the right coins and we push A7, then the Doritos are gonna come out.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you've lived long enough and been through significant trials, you realize I could put in a thousand quarters and no Doritos are coming out.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I've come to a really sobering season in my life where uh the worth and value, especially that's derived for threes in success and uh accomplishments.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just that is not where my worth can come from.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it just really I've really been flatlined in that is like pouring energy into something and yeah, releasing results, you know.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that makes sense.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: It does.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's you said it beautifully, and it gives a testament to your work in the upstream practices to help you veer in this place of surrender.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: And just last month I had a conversation with three of my coaches on the podcast, who are threes, and they each had a unique typing journey where they struggled to face some of the facts of the three and be able to see on paper what was true of them and how it fit, how the personality type fit them.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things we talked about was the matrix piece, but also vulnerability.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: You started this conversation very vulnerable.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen your work as I've explored it.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: You are honest and open and vulnerable.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so tell me a little bit about you also getting there.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: And does every time that you share a little bit more behind the scenes or behind a possible veneer, do you struggle with it a little bit or has it gotten easier for you?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: And is it just this natural thing that you do?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe I would say I don't think vulnerability is something we do.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think vulnerability is something we are.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are we're human.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like we are born vulnerable, we're born naked, we're born with nothing, we're born screaming.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And what we've learned to do is cover it up.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: What we've learned to do is hide.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I share my vulnerability, it is just uncovering what I've hidden.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I'm vulnerable, it's actually the more, it's like the most connected I am to my reality.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's practice, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the first time I, you know, consciously remember being vulnerable, it was terrifying.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like because we're so afraid of rejection.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: But also what it paved away for was connection and intimacy and relationship, which gosh, I wouldn't abandon that for fear.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like that's worth it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: The relationship is worth fear of losing it, and so yeah, I think it's less and less of me trying to be vulnerable and more and more of me trying not to hide.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: That is gonna preach to someone, and I would just pig you back and say, yeah, the fruit of vulnerability, being honest, being real, being transparent has just always been good, even if it was just for my soul.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And that's worth it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Terrifying that terrifying, yes.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: But when you survive the terrified, it builds this resiliency in you and even the courage meter to rise up and go, okay, I can do this again.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Remember how hard it was, but I also remember how I survived it and what was on the other side.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So well, I think especially for three.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, everyone has their own strategies for covering and hiding.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: The threes are very good at it for some reason.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're just like we perform, and so there's always for me the temptation to perform.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's right there, it's so accessible, right?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: If I do blank, then I'll get love.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: If I succeed, then I'll be safe.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so easy to play the part.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that was like a really eye-opening thing.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember the guy that did all those songs for the Enneagram?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, The Sleeping at Last.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I remember that was like one of his lines, like we just play the part, and it's so hard to be like, I don't want to play that game anymore.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because it doesn't work, like it doesn't actually bring me love.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And it's exhausting.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's so exhausting.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's so exhausting.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really good one.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because the book is called Feel, a collection of liturgies offering hope for every complicated emotion.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: As I read it before I knew about you, I was like, Angela's gotta be a four.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: She's put in language to feelings and emotions.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: She's given words for things.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, how does she do that?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm guessing, right?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: And and then when I go to read more about you and prepare for a conversation, I was like, she's a three.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: How is this possible?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's two things here.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: One, I want to hear the catalyst about the book, but two, feeling repression is a thing for three seven and eights.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I won't go into the details here because each type has to do their work and it's part of my wholehearted transformation process.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's a whole thing.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And especially because as a seven, I've been having to do the work.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's a thing.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I love a resource like this.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, I mean, tell me about this book and feelings and feel and you feeling and you helping others feel like this is a little bit of a phenomenon in my in my world.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say the catalyst to write the book was really I wanted a resource myself of like, gosh, I have all these complicated feelings and emotions, betrayal, dread, resistance, loneliness, um, depression, you know, all these things where it's like, these are really challenging, and I get really stuck in them from dismissing them to indulging them to being busy, you know, all of our strategies to not feel.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through a really significant experience, probably gosh, 20 years ago where I was definitely feeling repressed.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I went on a three-week retreat where the whole intention of the retreat was to feel.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it wasn't fire.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that'll terrify a seven real night.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it would.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Three weeks of that.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Three weeks of solitude, where uh I was basically in a cabin by myself where it was like, okay, feel everything you've never felt before.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like let it come up from rage.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: So hours upon hours of screaming to sadness, hours and hours and days of sobbing, to gosh, dealing with resentment, dealing with jealousy, dealing with fear and anxiety.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what that did for me was completely ran radically change my life, and that feelings are the pathway to connection.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: Myself with others, with God.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's just been really well, not fully, but well integrated into my life where I want to be fully free and fully alive.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And feelings are really a gift along the path to help you get there.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I definitely think I'm a wing for.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what actually has helped me write this book is because I'm a three, is because I mean, I could you're the expert on amigram.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you tell me if I'm wrong here, but it's my understanding that a three can really what is that word?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not camouflage, but chameleon.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I can become what I think other people need me to be to acceptance and love and affection.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've spent, I don't know, 40 years trying to understand, figure out what I think other people want me to be.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like I can really try on every number pretty well.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, I can get into the brain of a seven, I can get into the mind of an eight, I can get into the heart of a five, you know?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me to write this book, I think that actually aided me in doing it because some of these feelings I haven't totally felt.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, okay, how would someone feel that?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's not my automatic go-to feeling.
• 21:36
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a muscle that had already been there of trying to connect to what others and how others experience and see the world.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: Does that make sense?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you're saying basically that moment for this book was birthed 20 years ago or began to be created.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: And you've noted, you haven't experienced.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Necessarily all of these feelings.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: So you step in someone else's shoes, but what does that process look like?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: How do you choose which feelings to dive into and explore?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, I just want to share this is kind of one of those things that I'll be giving this book as a gift for years to come.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know how many feelings do you have here?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: You have these sections, you kind of do a big word and then you do little words.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh like I'm just amazed.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm serious.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's one of these things where I'm like, I it just is so beyond what anything that I could do.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: And yet it's exactly what I need.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's remarkable.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe an easy way to break it down is that there's six core emotions: surprise, fear, anger, happiness, disgust, and sadness.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: But within each of those bigger emotions are smaller feelings that would be subcategories.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, you feel fear, but you could also feel afraid, nervous, overwhelmed, scared, desperate, anxious, stressed, guilty.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really important that we understand and name correctly what we're feeling.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to understand there's a difference between nervousness and worry, even though they might feel similar, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Nervousness is the fear that something good won't happen.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, our offer won't get accepted on the house.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And worry is the fear of a bad thing happening.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll run out of money.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna get sick.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: My kids can get sick.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like going into the doctor, right?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's very similar.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you go into the doctor, you have to like um explain the symptoms, and there's a different treatment for if you have the flu or the cold or allergies.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna treat it differently.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's the same way with our emotions that when you start to name it, like, oh, actually, I'm nervous.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're gonna engage with that differently than you would with worry.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so my hope is that as you have a feeling that's just complicated, or you get stuck in, or you feel paralyzed by or overwhelmed by that, you can open up the table of contents and be like, oh, actually, I'm not angry.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually sad.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually feeling hurt.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can open up to page 224.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, for many people, they don't have words for how hurt feels.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people you ask them, how are you feeling?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I don't know.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here, let me help you.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Let me maybe help describe what it feels like to feel hurt, and even in that, what are some of your temptations to do with your hurt?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Or usually indulge it, distract it, avoid it.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then my hope is that you can open your heart up to God in that.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I offer a liturgy or like just a prayer for that feeling that can take you to the throne of grace.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the throne of grace is where our perspective can change, our circumstances may not, but even the physical sensations that go along with the feelings can be um pacified and calmed and nurtured.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in a way that I, you know, I think just like you said, that's exactly where there's been uh my community knows this year has been just the like, did not see that coming.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Just one thing after another and slam, slam, slam.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: And but that was following after a couple of years of some really big traumatic changes.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, you go through those and you think you're incubated, and then you have another year of what you're like, huh, okay.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: So, all that to say, I've experienced all the emotions in this book, and it was very helpful from the moment I got it to go, I'm feeling something in my body.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't quite put my finger on it.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: And for for me as a head type, I tend to run anxious before I deal with the shame and then the anger that follows.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: And then I go through that cycle, and everyone has a unique, you know, cycle in that way.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: But it was just so helpful to kind of go to that anxious, you know, and talk about that that big feeling, but then go down deeper to the emotion and go, what is really going on here?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Or even at the surface, feeling anxious, but going exploring a little bit more of there's like sadness and disappointment and yeah, just all of that.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that has been, like you said, you kind of play out, tease out the feeling itself, and what does that look like potentially, and how am I maybe tempted to respond, or what is my maladaptive behavior?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then you give me this prayer that invites me to oh, wait, who's in control and who cares and who sees and who knows, and who's caring and in control, even when it feels like it's totally out of control?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, I mean, I I know I'm like sounding overly enthusiastic in my seven-ness, but I just want people to know how much this resource has meant to me.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's just been so good.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: What has surprised you about it or your even yourself discovery?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think all the different emotions, all the different feelings tied in there where I right and being repressed in that area, I'm not usually taking time to know a little bit more.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: I might feel the anxiety and go, what's causing it?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll follow that thread and I'll usually deal with where I can get to the root of like, oh, somebody said something or this happened, or I read this or saw this.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm able to like take that thing to the Lord.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: But I love being able to, even before I get to the like thing, the circumstance, that I can just take the emotion and the feeling that it's created in me and take that to the Lord and talk to him about and talk through it before I even trace it all the way back.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because then it's like if I'm reoriented then and I'm reoriented to who's in control and who's in charge and who cares and who loves and who's tending, I can go back and look at that circumstance.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: I almost don't even need to because I've already put it in his hands.
• 28:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think you touched on something too.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we so struggle with how painful and uncomfortable a feeling is that we just want to gone.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of here.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to deal with it.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so we don't most of the time, but it's like remembering the goal is not to get rid of the feeling, the goal is to be loved by God through it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it doesn't necessarily fix the feeling, it's not like okay, now I'm not scared anymore.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I'm scared with Jesus.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like I'm scared with the shepherd of my soul.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm scared with the one who's gonna run out and meet me in my shame.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is the essence and the core of what relationship is.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like anytime you struggle with in your marriage, it's like, okay, it would be nice if this was just fixed, or you are fixed and changed.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, you're with me, we're together on this, you know, and it's like there's the power, there's the intimacy, is when it's like, I'm not alone.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: In my coaching process and in a few other past podcast conversations and teachings, I've talked about the bottom of the you.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're familiar with the Allender Center, um, yeah, this is something, you know, that is taught.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I did not invent it, I'm always quick to disclaim, but it's this concept of when we stop using spiritual bypassing or maladaptive behavior, other constructs to avoid the pain or the reality of where we are, then we are allowing ourselves to go to the bottom of the you.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And especially, I would say three, seven, and eights are most inclined to really avoid the bottom of the you.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: But I think this is part of helping be able to sit there a little bit because when we sit there, not in wallowing and self-pity or shame and fear and anger.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not talking about that.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's going being able to sit there and acknowledge where we find ourselves and realize the only way up and out that really brings freedom is reaching out an arm for help or just even staying there and just saying, help God.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that a tool like this helps a person like me sit there a little bit longer instead of, as you said, I just want the feeling to go away.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I want just this fix or just like, okay, I'll hand it over to you, God.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And it just like toss instead of sitting there a little bit longer of going, how did I get here?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_03: And why is this circumstance bothering me?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: And what about this brings sadness or fear or anxiety and getting you know more intimate with the savior because he wants to meet me, just not in these blanket things and feelings, but he wants to meet me in that mess and just the disaster of even that emotion does on the inside.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's so helpful even when you think about motherhood, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you don't care if your kid's a mess, you just want them to talk to you.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like for sure.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can kick, you can scream, you can lose your mind, you can sob.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, I want to be with you in that.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think recently recently uh we were trying to help our 16-year-old understand that the whole reason why we had kids was for relationship, not to control their world.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_03: And when your daughter is an Enneagram eight and a 16-year-old, sometimes all they hear is that you're trying to control their world.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so it actually birthed a really beautiful moment where I think she at least understood the fact that God created us for relationship.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: And by having that flip of a phrase going, we had children for relationship.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: And and so may our friends hear that both that God had us for relationship.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: And as you have enjoyed mothering for relationship, and as you said, no matter what emotion they're dealing with, you just want to know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: You just want to hear about it, you want to tend to it, you want to care for it, you want to offer nurturing.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: A beautiful story about adoption, where this parents had brought in a daughter, and for months the daughter just like ignored the mom.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ignored her, silent trimming completely, like just you know, difficult attachment.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one day the mom came home and across the master bathroom, so the parents' bathroom mirror in huge lipstick, right?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Her the mom's lipstick, the young girl had written I won't say the word, but F U across the mirror and the mom just sobbed with joy because she wants she's connecting, you know, and it's like yeah, how often do we think, oh, right?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I can't bring that curse word to God, you know.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I can't work that thing I did, that feel that thought I had, that behavior that's shame-filled.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, no, God's like, yeah, yeah, right.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want to.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: I have maybe shared before on the podcast, I don't remember, but when we went through a season of uh the short version of my dad had a double life our whole life.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: And when I was like 41, we found out um more to the story.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: And four months after my parents' divorce, he was married to another woman, and we don't have a relationship with him anymore.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so this has been several years.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so painful, you can imagine, and you know, so many, so many layers.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_03: But the reason why I share that bit is that in the healing process of it, and I'm still healing, right?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's took 41 years to get there, I'll take another 41 to get out.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: But the moment I finally yelled with my family with as witnesses, I am just freaking mad at God.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: And just that, like that brought breakthrough.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't like in that moment, but releasing that with God as my witness, with my family bearing witness, that was the reality of the pain that the kind of the source of the pain of being like God is sovereign and free will ended up ruining, you know, the relationship.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: And and in that just being angry.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: But several days later, there was a moment where the light finally broke through, and I felt like I was starting to be pulled out of the bottom of the U.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I really feel like that moment of expression and honesty brought me to that place.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not that I haven't definitely uttered that phrase again since then for different things, but but in that there's freedom.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, he's like, okay, we can work with us.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, let's let's go from here.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: It takes me back to the beginning of our conversation about vulnerability.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, what you were doing is just being honest.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you were just being honest with what was true, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I am not okay.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not okay here.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am so mad at you, God.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so angry.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like God's like, I can work with that.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like great.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and part of me is like, oh, oh, Amy, like, oh, there you start.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's prayer.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is prayer.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: That is when it's the truest voice from the center of your soul crying out to God, like, oh, that's prayer.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: We can work with that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: If psalms are prayer, yeah, and I've been reading through the psalm again this year because I've been reading in conjunction with Jeremiah, and let's just say I need a breath of psalms throughout that book, because Jeremiah, whoo, it's taking me a while.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: But there are plenty of prayers from David that he penned for us that I'm like, ooh, all right, I'm not praying for the head of my enemy.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, whatever I've got to start with feels a little bit tamer for sure.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's so fascinating to me when you know, I don't know what church environment you grew up with, but but very common I hear of church environments of like dismissing feelings.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, I just want to say so boldly, like it's unbiblical to do that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do agree.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: When you look at the Psalms, it's like it is so biblical to embrace and speak your feelings to God.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's so modeled for us from as early as Abraham and Moses to John, Paul, Peter, and Jesus Himself.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's like to deny feelings is truly to deny relations, like genuine, true relationship with God.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's so much to that, and Julie.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think you're right, a lot of environments haven't given the permission.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, it's all about what are we doing with them?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: And are we are we taking them to the Lord and maturely navigating them?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: And but it is about acknowledging, naming, and working through them instead of just suppressing them and pretending like they're not there when they are.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: They're just gonna bubble up and go sideways, and you'll have a sideways sandwich, and you'll you'll ruin more than just a day with that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I send I sense that you are a little bit of a teacher and obviously being a mom, there's natural teaching and a retreat space director and a pastor's wife, and all of that, obviously in our book.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: But I just wondered if you had a little bit of encouragement for those who are were headed into the holiday season officially.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, Costco started that before, I don't know, August, September, I think I saw Christmas.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Before Halloween.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, before Halloween for sure.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I kind of was thinking this would be a beautiful gift for yourself, certainly a gift for others, but to be able to have some prayers to navigate just the stress and disappointments around the holidays, because we all got them.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: So just help us a little bit and how you would see us using this resource in this time.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say that headed into the holidays, it's likely you're feeling a bundle of different emotions.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so to kind of go on the journey of paying attention and noticing what you're experiencing, uh, most likely stress, most likely overwhelmed, most likely longing, the longing for what was and what you hope will be.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think a strong one, honestly, is nostalgic, feeling of hope and a longing for home, and then a lot of times discouragement that things haven't gone the way you hoped they would, even after working so hard.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think you even named it right there disappointment.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, wanting peace and experiencing conflict, wanting joy and experiencing anger.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think this book could really be a genuine and real resource to help you um not just think your feelings and try and look at them like a Rubik's group to solve them and not to push them under, but how to be with Jesus as you engage in relationships and um all the activities that come with the holidays.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: I love a few of those that you read off there that are in the book.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't read through those yet.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm already like earmarking them in my mind, going, Oh yeah, those are gonna be so good.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have in years past, especially December, has been so loaded.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's also my birthday.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Even for a seven, when you hit the holidays as an adult, it loses some of the shininess of childhood.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and so as a seven wrestling with that, and there's that disappointment of like, oh yeah, I have responsibility, and sevens really don't love responsibility.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's childhood trauma wrapped up in that, and then you know, birthdays and the passing of another year, and maybe things didn't turn out the way I had hoped, with great optimism.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to say, like, those have been my feelings, but breakthrough finally started happening with the heaviness that I just almost even started dreading the time of year instead of anticipating it was a dread.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: And as I started realizing, recognizing this feeling repression and going ahead and going through it.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish I'd had this resource years ago, taking those kind of emotions to the Lord, or even just sitting with the Lord a little bit longer to unpack what is really going on there.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: The even the language I was able to just describe in a short amount of time, what was really going on, I didn't know it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: I felt a way that I didn't want to feel, right?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that oftentimes is where we start.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a resource like yours is gonna help us go, I'm feeling a way that I don't want to feel.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And even if I can't name it, even if I'm not sure what that looks like, sitting a little longer with the Lord, having some, I don't know, it's like a feelings wheel in a book.
• 42:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then pairs to go along with it.
• 42:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: Could really be a catalyst to some breakthrough and and where you can receive some peace and joy in the season that isn't manufactured.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, you're selling the book for me.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, like I said, I just genuinely really love that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's clear that there's a lot of like-hearted, like-minded just things in our life experience and call to invite others to intimacy with the Lord, because that's what prayer is building intimacy with Him.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I kind of love it.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you have a last piece of advice, but maybe you'd also just like to read a prayer because I kind of think I'd love to hear it in your voice.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I know they're all a little bit long-ish, so I'll put it down.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, Amy, how do you feel today?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel?
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, how do I feel?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna open it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going to, I've been excited about this, but there's been a lot of swirl today.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna lie.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna like open here.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'm going to see.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how about longing?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: 221.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: So when you open to it, oh, I think one really helpful thing is that every at the top, you open to longing, and then it just gives you the definition, which I think is always helpful.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: Designing a life person.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or things that you don't have yet or anymore.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll just kind of read a little snippet from there.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: If it's too long, you can edit it, right?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I just might be crying by the end of it, but that's all right.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the first section, which I won't read, but it's a language for longing.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I just share a brief experience of longings I've had and my temptation with longings.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: So one would be just make it happen.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get that person thing or experience?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other one is to give up on longings because it's too painful.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not gonna long for anything anymore.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's too, it hurts too much.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then the invitation in the liturgy is um to open your heart up to God with your longing.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the liturgy for when I feel longing is breathe in, Jesus, help me breathe out, trust in you.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I feel longings, I feel desires within me, and my body reacts.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: I pay attention to how I receive or reject my longings.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: God, this is where I find myself, and I ache.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: For a moment, I allow myself to feel what I feel when I have the courage to look intently at my longings.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_00: I find where my heart really is.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like a mirror, longings never lie.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Filters lie, photographs lie, smiles lie, people lie, I lie.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: But longings, they always tell the truth.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: My longings don't tell me what to do, but tell me what I want.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: God, my sorrow is close to me.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Sadness can be a hard feeling for me to feel because I fear there is no end.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yet here, comfort always awaits me.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Comfort from you, and comfort from letting myself feel what I really feel.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: God, I question if my desires even matter.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've nearly forgotten some.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some of my longings were once loud, but as hope faded and pain endured, it seemed like the best choice I had was to let them go.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: I may have convinced myself that the quieter my longings were, the less they could hurt me.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: God, sometimes my longings overpower me.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I feel them and see them and can almost touch them.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: I see others with the very thing I long for most in life.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: In my longings, I feel my grief.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the gap between where I am and where I want to be.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel the distance between my reality and what seems like an unreachable dream.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: Father in heaven, you invite me to pray honestly.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you make room for my longings to live.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: You make space for me to feel.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: You make a way for my dreams not to die in the dark.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: God, I touch my longings with vulnerable faith, like the sick woman in Luke 8, 43, 48.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: I reach for you.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: I reach out with just a pinch of hope that you can make all things well.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: You alone can meet me in the very depths of my longings, secret dreams and whispered desires.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: You are with me in the ache.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: My longings become my soul's song.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Pain is the melody, and hope is the harmony.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: They don't compete, but rather complement each other.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: They are my heart's hum and they remind me that my life is woven together with complexities that don't fracture me but form me.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I won't run ahead and I won't run back.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: I won't swallow up my sadness, but I will sigh forward.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: God, I lean into my longings with you.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: I trust that whatever may come will come.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: With this, a wellness settles within my soul.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: For even in my longings, you gather me in and greet me with love.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: Here with you, my longings find reprieve.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then at the end of each section, I offer a verse, and this one is Proverbs 13:12.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, bless you, sister.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: It was beautiful.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: I I warned you I might cry.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_03: But that's the power prayer.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: Such a place in your soul and you're not always sure how you can access.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_03: But on the other side, there's reprieve and there's healing.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: So your longings are seen.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: I feel that.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: I always hate these moments where it gets me, but that's it.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's the real deal.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's being vulnerable and authentic.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I know it's a gift that we can get of others because I know that other friends heard that and listened and prayed that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: And evoked the same emotion.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like uh it's okay that it's not tied up in a red bow.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, that's right.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: And we go about our day making lunches and doing errands and returning emails.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, um, like God holds even all the unmessy, unput together places, and just okay.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the phrase that comes to mind, the resolve of all of our hearts when we're vulnerable is God, let it be so.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like into your hands, into your hands I put my life.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And whatever comes, let it be so.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: That sweet prayer of Mary.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, God, let it be so.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm praying that for you, even now, and for even my own heart and anyone who listens, God, let it be so.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: Amen and amen.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Angulie, this is beautiful.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've been excited to just share this with my friends and just get to talk to you and hear more about it because it has blessed me.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I know it's going to bless many others.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: This is a classic.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there's unfortunately, fortunately, feelings never go out of style and are are always a classic.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it will be a resource that will stand the test of time.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for your creation of it and just the work that you're doing and the opportunity to get to chat.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's my joy.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks so much.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I warned you there were some tears.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also confident that you enjoyed this as much as I did.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, there's not a whole lot more to say here, except for go get the book.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be so glad you did.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you'll want to add a couple extra to the cart as gifts during the season or in the months to come.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know you and a lot of others would really benefit and really appreciate this book.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Next week I'll be back with more conversations to help queue up the holiday season.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're diving right in.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: I know we've already been sprinkling in some of those Advent holiday conversations, but I'm excited to have you hear from Carlos Whitaker.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: He was on the podcast years ago, I think in the first year or two of this podcast, so a long time ago, but he has come out with a new book that, man, it's powerful.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm excited for you to hear more from him and maybe even think about getting reconnected as you disconnect a little bit more in this holiday season.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_03: So until then, remember we're all broken, we're all blowing it, and it's the brave one who does something about it.