Transcript

Sharri | 28 October · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Thanks, Andrew. Good evening.
0:08
Speaker 2: Well, shock result in the Israeli election. Looks like Netanyahu
0:12
Speaker 2: might be back.
0:13
Speaker 1: I've got all the details.
0:15
Speaker 2: Penny Wong makes a major admission that she cited inaccurate
0:18
Speaker 2: figures in her United Nations speech. James Patterson will join
0:22
Speaker 2: me live. And Albanese abuses the phrase to turn down
0:27
Speaker 2: the temperature when pressed on high inflation. It's all coming up.
0:31
Speaker 2: But let's start with the Israeli election results. They're coming in.
0:35
Speaker 2: The local time is 11am in Israel. It's the day
0:39
Speaker 2: after the election and over 72% of the vote has
0:43
Speaker 2: now been counted. And Benjamin Netanyahu has surged ahead.
0:47
Speaker 1: This is a shock result.
0:49
Speaker 2: With many expecting a neck-and-neck tie, a stalemate between Netanyahu
0:56
Speaker 2: and Gadi Eizenkot. And then a wild period of negotiation.
1:01
Speaker 2: But at this point, Netanyahu is ahead, although not in
1:05
Speaker 2: a position to form government. Let's have a look at
1:08
Speaker 2: the latest numbers. Likud and its coalition partners are sitting
1:12
Speaker 2: on around 54 seats. The opposition bloc is on 48 seats.
1:19
Speaker 2: So Netanyahu's bloc leading there with 54 seats, while the
1:23
Speaker 2: Gadi-Eisenkot bloc on 48 seats. Now, as I said, the
1:28
Speaker 2: votes are still being counted. around 30% still to go.
1:33
Speaker 2: But at this point, Netanyahu's Likud-led bloc is ahead, although
1:37
Speaker 2: it's still short of the 61 seats needed for a
1:41
Speaker 2: governing majority. And unless he meets the 61 seats, there
1:46
Speaker 2: will be a period of negotiation to form a coalition government.
1:50
Speaker 2: And I'll come back to that in a moment. But
1:52
Speaker 2: let's look now at the party votes. Now, Netanyahu's Likud
1:56
Speaker 2: party won 28.
1:57
Speaker 1: I think that's now 28 seats.
2:00
Speaker 2: Gadi Eizenkot's Yashar won 21 and Naftali Bennett's 11. It's
2:07
Speaker 2: clear Netanyahu's Likud had the highest primary vote.
2:11
Speaker 1: Now, last night, as.
2:13
Speaker 2: The vote started rolling in, it looked like the anti-Netanyahu
2:17
Speaker 2: coalition had the majority. And this led Gadi to declare
2:22
Speaker 2: that Israelis had voted for change.
2:25
Speaker 3: This morning the people of Israel went to a referendum
2:28
Speaker 3: on the leadership that will guide Israel in the coming years.
2:32
Speaker 3: Tonight we received an answer. The public decided in favour
2:35
Speaker 3: of change. The coalition of failure has lost the trust
2:38
Speaker 3: of the people.
2:40
Speaker 2: And of course that's a translated voiceover because he was
2:42
Speaker 2: speaking in Hebrew. And he also urged Netanyahu to step down.
2:47
Speaker 2: But Bibi delivered an election night address where he said
2:51
Speaker 2: the right-wing bloc has a clear majority among the Jewish
2:54
Speaker 2: public and he's excluding the Arab parties here.
2:58
Speaker 3: He also warned against forming a government that's dependent on
3:00
Speaker 3: the anti-Zionist Arab parties. Now, the Arab parties did better
3:03
Speaker 3: than expected.
3:16
Speaker 2: And they're projected to win around 18 seats. I mean,
3:20
Speaker 2: they could become potential kingmakers. Now, as a reminder, the
3:24
Speaker 2: fact there are Arab parties in the Knesset, which is
3:27
Speaker 2: the Israeli parliament, shows that Israel is a true democracy.
3:32
Speaker 1: And accusations of.
3:33
Speaker 2: Apartheid are completely absurd. Arabs compromise about 20% of the
3:38
Speaker 2: Israeli population. You also can't underestimate Netanyahu's ability to negotiate
3:45
Speaker 2: a governing coalition.
3:46
Speaker 1: He's done it before, many times.
3:49
Speaker 2: And by the way, this may look like a messy process,
3:53
Speaker 2: but this could be what our election outcomes start resembling
3:57
Speaker 2: with the rise of One Nation, a third major political contender. Now,
4:03
Speaker 2: it was a record voter turnout in Israel and voters
4:06
Speaker 2: focused on some major issues. Having a full commission of
4:10
Speaker 2: inquiry into October 7, the ultra-Orthodox not serving in the
4:15
Speaker 2: military many want them to serve, the threat of Iran
4:18
Speaker 2: still looms large, the war considered unfinished and Hamas.
4:23
Speaker 1: Still a problem in Gaza.
4:26
Speaker 2: For many, this was also an election on Netanyahu personally,
4:29
Speaker 2: on his personal brand. And so for Bibi to be
4:33
Speaker 2: surging ahead, and I say this with the caveat that
4:36
Speaker 2: the votes are still being counted, but for Netanyahu to
4:41
Speaker 2: be surging ahead shows that Israelis were voting on security
4:46
Speaker 2: and the future rather than domestic issues. His relationship with
4:52
Speaker 2: President Trump and the unresolved Iran war also.
4:56
Speaker 1: Weighs in Bibi's favour. So what's next?
5:00
Speaker 2: Well, the votes have to be counted, the remaining 30%.
5:04
Speaker 2: That should happen by tomorrow. Then Israeli President Isaac Herzog
5:09
Speaker 2: will then, depending on the final vote, but it looks like,
5:13
Speaker 2: he will now likely invite Netanyahu to try and form
5:17
Speaker 2: a government, giving him a period of negotiation over several
5:21
Speaker 2: weeks to negotiate with other parties to see if he
5:25
Speaker 2: can reach the 61 seats needed. Now, here in Australia
5:32
Speaker 2: and around the world, the left, including the Greens and
5:36
Speaker 2: the Albanese government, were hoping that Netanyahu would be voted out.
5:42
Speaker 2: But one thing is for certain, whatever the outcome, Israel
5:46
Speaker 2: will remain hated by its opponents because it's not about
5:51
Speaker 2: who the Prime Minister is. The enmity towards Israel has
5:55
Speaker 2: been the same, whether it's Golda Meir or Bibi. The
5:59
Speaker 2: enemies don't hate Israel because of the leader. They hate
6:03
Speaker 2: Israel because it's the Jewish state. And that won't change,
6:08
Speaker 2: regardless of whether Gadi or Bibi are leader.
6:11
Speaker 1: It is an exciting night. It always is.
6:13
Speaker 2: Every election night is exciting. So it's an exciting night
6:16
Speaker 2: as the results come in. And we're standing by to
6:19
Speaker 2: cross live to Israel with our panel. We've got Daily
6:22
Speaker 2: Telegraph reporter James O'Doherty on the ground and also we're
6:25
Speaker 2: bringing international.
6:27
Speaker 1: Law expert as well.
6:28
Speaker 2: We'll come back to that for the latest. Well, Foreign
6:35
Speaker 2: Minister Penny Wong has today admitted she cited inaccurate figures
6:40
Speaker 2: in her United Nations speech criticising Israel last month. And
6:45
Speaker 2: she's also been caught unstuck in a stunning and impressive
6:49
Speaker 2: interrogation from Senator James Patterson on whether the Palestinian Authority
6:54
Speaker 2: is meeting the preconditions the Albanese government outlined for recognising
6:59
Speaker 2: a Palestinian state. Well, let's go to Penny Wong's major
7:03
Speaker 2: admission first. Now, she claimed at the United Nations last
7:07
Speaker 2: month that 15,000 Palestinian children had been displaced from the
7:12
Speaker 2: West Bank. And here she was making that claim at
7:15
Speaker 2: the UN.
7:17
Speaker 4: In the West Bank, the situation is worsening. In the
7:19
Speaker 4: first six months of this year alone, settler violence has
7:23
Speaker 4: driven more than 15,000 children from their homes.
7:27
Speaker 2: The Israeli Foreign Ministry publicly said it was a lie.
7:30
Speaker 2: They asked from where and from whom did Australian Foreign
7:34
Speaker 2: Minister Penny Wong get this blatant lie. At the time,
7:38
Speaker 2: I reported that she wouldn't answer questions about where she
7:41
Speaker 2: sourced these figures when the United Nations said the number
7:45
Speaker 2: was 1,000. Yes, 1,000 compared to 15,000. Well, today, Penny
7:51
Speaker 2: Wong admitted, under questioning from James Patterson, that this figure
7:55
Speaker 2: was inaccurate.
7:57
Speaker 4: We can have a discussion about timeframes and I accept
8:01
Speaker 4: what was in the speech should have had a different timeframe,
8:05
Speaker 4: except that was an error.
8:07
Speaker 2: I accept that was an error. That was the last
8:10
Speaker 2: thing she said there. But then she also claimed that
8:14
Speaker 2: her office had corrected the record with journalists.
8:19
Speaker 4: We corrected the figure then or the underlying timeframe for
8:24
Speaker 4: the figure. And we've done so again today.
8:27
Speaker 5: Sorry, corrected it how or corrected it where?
8:30
Speaker 6: To the media?
8:31
Speaker 1: To the media.
8:31
Speaker 4: So we get a media inquiry and we indicated to
8:34
Speaker 4: them what the timeframe should have been for the underlying
8:37
Speaker 4: timeframe for the figure.
8:40
Speaker 2: Well, on September 29, and I think I was the
8:42
Speaker 2: first journalist to report this. On September 29, I asked
8:46
Speaker 2: Penny Wong's office where she sourced her figures and whether
8:49
Speaker 2: she'd be correcting the record, and they dug in, refusing
8:52
Speaker 2: to back down from the 15,000 figure, in fact repeating it,
8:57
Speaker 2: certainly not withdrawing or correcting it. So it seems Wong
9:02
Speaker 2: may have misled the Senate today, and it seems she
9:05
Speaker 2: hasn't publicly corrected the record anywhere at all for this
9:10
Speaker 2: gross accusation against Israel. It matters because she's Australia's foreign
9:15
Speaker 2: minister and it's misinformation like this that contributes to the
9:19
Speaker 2: environment of hatred that's risking the safety of Jewish Australians. Now,
9:24
Speaker 2: moving on, there was an even more astonishing interaction today
9:28
Speaker 2: between Paterson and Penny Wong and her bureaucrats. And this
9:32
Speaker 2: has to do with the recognition of a Palestinian state.
9:36
Speaker 2: Now you might recall, that when Anthony Albanese and Wong
9:40
Speaker 2: announced they'd recognise a Palestinian state, they gave five preconditions.
9:45
Speaker 2: These were holding elections, governance records, which is improving government
9:49
Speaker 2: accountability and financial transparency, stopping the Pay for Slay program,
9:54
Speaker 2: where it pays terrorists' families, stopping teaching incitement to violence, in.
10:00
Speaker 1: Schools and demilitarisation.
10:03
Speaker 2: So these were five preconditions Albanese gave before recognising Palestinian statehood.
10:10
Speaker 2: And here was the PM and Wong at the time.
10:13
Speaker 7: Australia will recognise the right of the Palestinian people to
10:16
Speaker 7: a state of their own. predicated on the commitments Australia
10:21
Speaker 7: has received from the Palestinian Authority.
10:25
Speaker 2: Well, today, Patterson asked Wong and DFAT officials how each
10:30
Speaker 2: of these preconditions were progressing. And as he went through
10:33
Speaker 2: each point, it became very apparent there was little to
10:38
Speaker 2: no progress on any of them.
10:39
Speaker 1: I mean, here's one example.
10:42
Speaker 5: What's our assessment of progress on demilitarisation?
10:45
Speaker 8: That is a work in progress. To get a detailed response,
10:48
Speaker 8: you'd have to come back to you on that, Senator,
10:49
Speaker 8: but it is obviously a challenge because of the Hamas factor.
10:53
Speaker 2: It's obviously a challenge because of the Hamas factor. I mean,
10:55
Speaker 2: it makes me laugh because there is no sign of
10:57
Speaker 2: Hamas giving up its arms any time soon. Yet this
11:01
Speaker 2: was a precondition for Wong and Albanese recognising a Palestinian state.
11:05
Speaker 1: Here's another example.
11:07
Speaker 5: Moving on to elections, I think President Abbas is 21
11:11
Speaker 5: years into his four-year term. How are we going on elections?
11:17
Speaker 8: Senator, the Minister joined other Ministers' counterparts in expressing our
11:21
Speaker 8: disappointment at the postponement of the elections. We called on them,
11:27
Speaker 8: as we've called them in Bermuda, to ensure elections take
11:30
Speaker 8: place without delay. It was part of their commitment, as
11:35
Speaker 8: we said before. And we continue to make clear their
11:38
Speaker 8: expectations on that matter.
11:40
Speaker 5: Were we surprised that we've had yet another delay in
11:43
Speaker 5: Palestinian Authority elections?
11:45
Speaker 8: As the Minister said, we were disappointed in it.
11:48
Speaker 5: Disappointed doesn't seem all that strong. I mean, it's one
11:52
Speaker 5: of the core commitments. This is not the first time.
11:55
Speaker 8: To be clear, we were... We expressed deep disappointment in it, yes.
11:59
Speaker 5: Deep disappointment. OK, well, that's a bit stronger.
12:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's hilarious.
12:05
Speaker 2: Penny Wong repeatedly tried to stop Patterson's line of questioning.
12:08
Speaker 2: She wasn't happy with his interrogation. And when she interrupted
12:12
Speaker 2: her officials from answering his questions, Patterson asked her the question.
12:18
Speaker 2: And instead of giving an answer on whether the Palestinian
12:20
Speaker 2: Authority was going to hold elections, she tried to turn
12:24
Speaker 2: it all back on Patterson and Israel.
12:27
Speaker 1: Have a look.
12:28
Speaker 5: What's your assessment then, Minister? If you won't let the
12:30
Speaker 5: officials answer, what's your assessment? How many times more will
12:33
Speaker 5: President Abbas be allowed to delay elections before we recognise
12:37
Speaker 5: that maybe he does not intend on holding them at all?
12:39
Speaker 4: And I respond to you by saying, you know, that's
12:42
Speaker 4: like asking you, when will Israel stop building settlements that
12:45
Speaker 4: prevent a Palestinian state?
12:47
Speaker 5: I mean, like it's... I'm not the government. It's not
12:49
Speaker 5: my policy.
12:50
Speaker 2: I mean, this is unbelievable because her own condition for
12:54
Speaker 2: giving the Palestinian statehood was holding elections. She can't turn
12:58
Speaker 2: this back on Israel or Patterson. And she kept telling
13:02
Speaker 2: him what he should be asking. And Patterson politely, firmly,
13:06
Speaker 2: articulately and repeatedly pushed back, saying the government MPs could
13:11
Speaker 2: ask those questions that she wanted, but he was asking
13:15
Speaker 2: how the Palestinian Authority was progressing on its preconditions for statehood. Now,
13:20
Speaker 2: there were a couple of occasions when it seemed like
13:23
Speaker 2: Wong was coming close to losing her patience.
13:27
Speaker 4: But this is the problem with your position. Continued tests,
13:32
Speaker 4: thresholds for the Palestinian people that you know that you
13:38
Speaker 4: keep setting before you will go to a two-state process. Meanwhile,
13:46
Speaker 4: thousands of people, including children, are displaced and human rights
13:52
Speaker 4: abuses continue to occur in the West Bank and the
13:55
Speaker 4: former Israeli government. continues to build settlements which render on
14:00
Speaker 4: the ground a two-state solution impossible or highly unlikely. There
14:08
Speaker 4: is no Palestine left to recognise if we just wait.
14:10
Speaker 2: I mean, it's extraordinary that she genuinely blames Israel for
14:16
Speaker 2: the Palestinians' authorities' failure not to meet its basic commitments
14:21
Speaker 2: like an election. Now, Patterson calmly wouldn't accept her attempt
14:24
Speaker 2: to reframe the questions he was asking.
14:28
Speaker 5: Winston Churchill once said, no matter how good the intentions are,
14:31
Speaker 5: occasionally we should check the results. So what I'm trying
14:33
Speaker 5: to do today is check the results on your good intentions.
14:36
Speaker 4: And the results of your position, of.
14:39
Speaker 5: An alternative position.
14:40
Speaker 9: We're the opposition.
14:42
Speaker 6: Sorry. You are the government.
14:43
Speaker 4: James, I'm not actually, Senator Paterson, I'm not actually trying
14:46
Speaker 4: to set up an opposition political debate. Sort of seems
14:50
Speaker 4: like it.
14:51
Speaker 10: No, no.
14:51
Speaker 4: I'm actually making a point, which is it depends what
14:54
Speaker 4: your policy position is.
14:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm just assessing... I just want to assess
14:58
Speaker 5: how your policy's going. How's it working out, Minister? That's
15:01
Speaker 5: what I'm trying to get to.
15:03
Speaker 2: And Patterson asked, if these commitments are not fulfilled, then
15:07
Speaker 2: will the government still be recognising a Palestinian state? And
15:12
Speaker 2: DFAT was giving nonsensical answers like this.
15:16
Speaker 8: We have remained in touch with the Palestinian Authority to
15:20
Speaker 8: hold them to account, and we are satisfied they are
15:23
Speaker 8: making progress on that basis.
15:26
Speaker 2: They're satisfied they're making progress on elections. No sign of
15:30
Speaker 2: elections happening. No sign of Hamas giving up its weapons.
15:34
Speaker 2: And that's even as Israel goes to the polls yet again.
15:37
Speaker 2: And here was the ludicrous interaction with the DFAT official.
15:42
Speaker 8: On the governance matter, I cannot give you a clear
15:45
Speaker 8: answer on that one. I'll come back to you on
15:46
Speaker 8: that one.
15:47
Speaker 5: Sorry, could you explain why? You just said at the
15:49
Speaker 5: start you assessed there's been good progress made at governance
15:51
Speaker 5: and now you can't tell me.
15:53
Speaker 8: No, I mentioned on the social payments, I was going
15:55
Speaker 8: to come to education after that, Senator.
15:57
Speaker 5: Okay, well, the first precondition was governance. You started your
16:01
Speaker 5: answer by saying you assessed there's been significant progress on governance.
16:04
Speaker 5: I was a bit surprised by that. I'm not sure
16:06
Speaker 5: that everyone would agree. So what progress has been made
16:09
Speaker 5: on governance? I'm asking what progress has the Palestinian Authority
16:13
Speaker 5: made against each of these objectives? So what is our
16:17
Speaker 5: assessment of the progress the Palestinian Authority has made on governance?
16:23
Speaker 8: I would have to come back to you on that, Senator.
16:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, because the reality is they're not progressing on any points.
16:30
Speaker 2: Yet the Albanese government will never withdraw the recognition of
16:33
Speaker 2: a Palestinian state. So as James Patterson points out, these
16:37
Speaker 2: weren't preconditions at all. There are no conditions. Albanese and
16:41
Speaker 2: Wong are happy to recognise a Palestinian state even with
16:46
Speaker 2: a bloodthirsty terror group in control. And joining me to
16:53
Speaker 2: discuss now is Shadow Minister for Defence, James Paterson. And James,
16:57
Speaker 2: I mean, can I start by saying I was beyond
16:59
Speaker 2: impressed at your questioning. It was among the best I've
17:02
Speaker 2: seen and it was gripping viewing. And I recommend actually
17:06
Speaker 2: everyone watch the whole Senate estimates because it's a stunning
17:10
Speaker 2: insight really into how Penny Wong and her officials think.
17:15
Speaker 5: Well, thank you very much, Shari. I did think that
17:17
Speaker 5: one year after the Albanese government had announced recognition of
17:20
Speaker 5: a Palestinian state and had attached conditions to that recognition,
17:25
Speaker 5: that it was reasonable to get an update to see
17:28
Speaker 5: how those preconditions were going, whether those five areas of governance,
17:32
Speaker 5: pay for slay, education, elections and demilitarisation had been implemented.
17:38
Speaker 5: And you won't be surprised, and I certainly wasn't surprised
17:41
Speaker 5: to hear that there'd been very little progress against any
17:44
Speaker 5: of those objectives, particularly given Mahmoud Abbas has yet again
17:48
Speaker 5: delayed elections in the Palestinian Authority, now 21 years into
17:52
Speaker 5: his first four-year term, and looking like he's going to
17:54
Speaker 5: make that a very, very long four-year term.
17:57
Speaker 6: But what I.
17:57
Speaker 5: Was hoping there would be was at least some reflection
18:00
Speaker 5: on the part of the government that the modest leverage
18:03
Speaker 5: that we might have once had over the Palestinian Authority,
18:05
Speaker 5: they gave away when they recognised Palestine. Why on earth
18:09
Speaker 5: would the Palestinian Authority do anything now that we've already
18:12
Speaker 5: given them what they want, which is recognition? And so
18:15
Speaker 5: the key question for the government is, will they cancel
18:19
Speaker 5: this recognition? Will they reverse this recognition? Is there anything
18:22
Speaker 5: the Palestinian Authority can do that would make them revisit
18:25
Speaker 5: this decision? And the answer from the Foreign Minister was no.
18:29
Speaker 5: No matter what the progress is, no matter whether there
18:31
Speaker 5: are elections or not, no matter whether they continue to
18:33
Speaker 5: pay terrorists, no matter they continue to radicalise children in
18:36
Speaker 5: schools to hate Jews, no matter what they do, the
18:39
Speaker 5: Albanese government will always recognise Palestinian statehood. And I think
18:43
Speaker 5: that's shameful.
18:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that admission you extracted from her was
18:48
Speaker 2: very insightful. These weren't preconditions at all. They were not prerequisites.
18:52
Speaker 1: They're irrelevant.
18:54
Speaker 2: Just on the 15,000 figure that I spoke about at
18:57
Speaker 2: the start there, do you think it's appropriate for Australia's
19:01
Speaker 2: foreign minister to spread misinformation in order to attack Israel? And,
19:07
Speaker 2: you know, she said she corrected the record, but there's
19:09
Speaker 2: no evidence she or her office actually had.
19:14
Speaker 5: Politicians are human and they can make mistakes, although a
19:17
Speaker 5: foreign minister delivering a speech at the United Nations you
19:20
Speaker 5: would certainly hope was carefully fact-checked before she spoke. But
19:24
Speaker 5: when you do make a mistake, it's important to own
19:26
Speaker 5: up to it, to take responsibility and to correct the
19:28
Speaker 5: record as promptly and as prominently as you can. But
19:32
Speaker 5: if you look up the Foreign Minister's speech on the
19:34
Speaker 5: DFAT website today, it still includes her false claim that
19:39
Speaker 5: 15,000 Palestinian children were displaced in a six-month period in
19:42
Speaker 5: the West Bank due to the actions of Israeli settlers. Now,
19:46
Speaker 5: it was pointed out very quickly by the Israeli Foreign
19:49
Speaker 5: Ministry and questions were asked by journalists, yourself included, very quickly,
19:53
Speaker 5: whether this was accurate or not. And the Foreign Minister
19:57
Speaker 5: has made no public statement, has made no communication with
20:00
Speaker 5: the government of Israel, has not even updated the speech
20:04
Speaker 5: on her website to reflect the fact that she misspoke,
20:07
Speaker 5: that she was in error, And all we are told
20:09
Speaker 5: is that maybe possibly to some journalists, on background, they
20:14
Speaker 5: made some acknowledgement of their error. But as you've pointed out,
20:18
Speaker 5: it's not transparent, it's not public, and we should expect
20:20
Speaker 5: better from a foreign minister.
20:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
20:24
Speaker 2: Just on another topic, the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess, has
20:28
Speaker 2: confirmed that two Australians were targeted by Iran in cyber
20:32
Speaker 2: intelligence operations this year.
20:34
Speaker 1: Of course, I was one of them.
20:36
Speaker 2: How concerned are you that the IRGC is targeting Australians
20:41
Speaker 2: on Australian soil?
20:43
Speaker 5: I'm deeply disturbed by this, Shari, and it is why
20:46
Speaker 5: for years I have campaigned, along with many of my
20:49
Speaker 5: other coalition colleagues, for the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps to
20:53
Speaker 5: be listed as a terrorist organisation, for the Iranian ambassador
20:57
Speaker 5: to be expelled and for us to significantly toughen our
21:01
Speaker 5: approach to Iran, including sanctions on the Islamic Republic regime. Sadly,
21:06
Speaker 5: I'm not surprised that someone prominent and courageous like you
21:09
Speaker 5: and my friend and political commentator Michael Kroger have been
21:12
Speaker 5: targeted in this way. And since your story broke, someone
21:16
Speaker 5: else has come forward to contact me to say they
21:19
Speaker 5: recognised what happened to you and they believed it's happened
21:21
Speaker 5: to them.
21:22
Speaker 6: Now, I won't reveal their identity.
21:23
Speaker 5: It's their choice to do so. But they're now in
21:26
Speaker 5: touch with our agencies to determine whether they are a
21:29
Speaker 5: third victim of these kind of attacks. It just shows
21:31
Speaker 5: how maligned this regime is, which is why I asked
21:34
Speaker 5: Penny Wong in Senate Estimates today whether she was willing
21:37
Speaker 5: to close the Iranian embassy, which remains open in Australia,
21:41
Speaker 5: and which is a source of fear for the Iranian-Australian
21:43
Speaker 5: diaspora as well. And she refused to say whether or
21:46
Speaker 5: not the government would contemplate closing the embassy. The question
21:50
Speaker 5: for the government is, how bad does it need to get?
21:52
Speaker 5: We already knew that they were responsible for terror attacks
21:55
Speaker 5: on our soil. We now know they're targeting journalists and
21:58
Speaker 5: political commentators and with cyber attacks. What else do they
22:02
Speaker 5: need to do before we decide that they shouldn't be
22:04
Speaker 5: allowed to operate an embassy in Canberra?
22:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
22:06
Speaker 2: We've actually got some of her comments on this.
22:08
Speaker 1: So let's have a look at them.
22:10
Speaker 5: You would be willing on advice to close the Iranian
22:14
Speaker 5: embassy if necessary?
22:14
Speaker 4: I'm not going to speculate on advice from security agencies.
22:17
Speaker 5: Well, I'm not asking you to speculate on what their
22:19
Speaker 5: advice might be. I'm asking you to tell me what
22:21
Speaker 5: the government's thinking is.
22:23
Speaker 4: I'm not going to be drawn on hypotheticals.
22:24
Speaker 5: I apologise for interrupting you before, but you're interrupting me now.
22:27
Speaker 4: Well, I hadn't finished my answer. So we would make
22:29
Speaker 4: any decisions that we thought and were advised were necessary
22:33
Speaker 4: to protect the security of Australians, as we have done.
22:37
Speaker 2: So it did sound there, and she said that a
22:39
Speaker 2: few times, you know, the focus on the safety of Australians.
22:42
Speaker 2: So it does sound like this might be something they're considering, James.
22:46
Speaker 5: Well, I certainly hope so, Shari, because when we first
22:49
Speaker 5: called on them to ban the IRGC and we first
22:52
Speaker 5: called on them to expel the ambassador, they said they
22:54
Speaker 5: couldn't do that and they wouldn't do that. And subsequently,
22:57
Speaker 5: under pressure, they were forced to do so. So I
22:59
Speaker 5: hope they relent on this too. But the reason the
23:02
Speaker 5: foreign minister advanced why this embassy remains open... is so
23:06
Speaker 5: that people who need it have access to documents from
23:08
Speaker 5: the Iranian government and visas. Now, that doesn't seem like
23:11
Speaker 5: a good enough reason to me to keep open the
23:14
Speaker 5: embassy of the largest state sponsor of terror in the world,
23:19
Speaker 5: which has targeted Australians, and it is only luck that
23:22
Speaker 5: it didn't end up killing Australians. This is a malignant regime.
23:26
Speaker 5: Our embassy in Tehran is closed. Why should their embassy
23:29
Speaker 5: in Canberra be open?
23:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point. James Patterson.
23:33
Speaker 2: And again, I mean, it's so important that the government
23:36
Speaker 2: is held to account on critical issues like this. So,
23:39
Speaker 2: you know, and Penny Wong won't come on this program.
23:42
Speaker 1: Certainly not.
23:43
Speaker 2: So it's, you know, it's really good to see that
23:46
Speaker 2: you are asking the tough questions and giving her a
23:49
Speaker 2: tough time today.
23:50
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.
23:51
Speaker 9: Thanks, Shari.
23:54
Speaker 2: All right, let's turn to the Prime Minister's $ 6 million
23:57
Speaker 2: golf club grant scandal now. And there's another twist. The
24:01
Speaker 2: Australian newspaper has gone back to Albanese's original announcement for
24:05
Speaker 2: the Marrickville Golf Club and found that it contained no
24:09
Speaker 2: mention of sewage problems at all. Even the briefing by
24:12
Speaker 2: the golf club didn't mention sewage. And that's despite the
24:15
Speaker 2: Prime Minister continuing to insist that sewage.
24:19
Speaker 1: Was in the scope of the works.
24:21
Speaker 2: For more now, I'm joined by the Sydney Morning Herald's
24:23
Speaker 2: chief political correspondent, Paul Sakal.
24:26
Speaker 1: Paul, good to see you again.
24:28
Speaker 2: Look, there's also a push to refer this entire matter
24:31
Speaker 2: now to the National Corruption Watchdog.
24:36
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's a story that keeps on giving this one, Shari,
24:39
Speaker 11: and the Prime Minister has a pretty special knack these
24:42
Speaker 11: days of keeping tricky stories that he could dismiss in
24:45
Speaker 11: a day by apologising or conceding, keeping them going for weeks.
24:48
Speaker 11: It's becoming a trend of this government.
24:50
Speaker 9: On the knack.
24:51
Speaker 11: there is a push to send this to the corruption watchdog.
24:54
Speaker 11: The reason it won't get up is because... Well, I'll
24:58
Speaker 11: just give you a little bit of history, and it's
25:00
Speaker 11: worth remembering the history on grants and how we got here,
25:02
Speaker 11: and it speaks actually to the absurdity of this debate
25:04
Speaker 11: about what the grant was for and whether it was
25:06
Speaker 11: sewage or not.
25:07
Speaker 9: The last coalition government.
25:08
Speaker 11: Some of your viewers will remember, Bridget McKenzie had a
25:11
Speaker 11: really hard time over grants to a gun club that
25:14
Speaker 11: she had a link to. The reason Labor prosecuted her
25:17
Speaker 11: so strongly was because this was a grant that was
25:19
Speaker 11: meant to be competitive, It was meant to be, we'll
25:22
Speaker 11: open it up to all different kinds of clubs and
25:24
Speaker 11: the most meritorious one would win. And then by happenstance,
25:27
Speaker 11: the one that Bridget McKenzie knew got the grant. Labor
25:30
Speaker 11: says that type of awarding of grant through competitive process
25:33
Speaker 11: is wrong. And so what they've done is they've done
25:36
Speaker 11: effectively the exact same thing as Bridget McKenzie, but they've
25:38
Speaker 11: done it through an election commitment process, which means there
25:42
Speaker 11: is no merit at the core of it. They effectively
25:44
Speaker 11: pick places in their own seats and if they win government,
25:48
Speaker 11: they make those grants and there's pretty much no due process.
25:51
Speaker 11: The department has granted 98% of them on merit basis,
25:55
Speaker 11: as our newspaper reports tomorrow. So Labor trying to justify
25:58
Speaker 11: this grant on the basis that it was for sewerage
26:01
Speaker 11: and it wasn't just a handout because Albo, the Prime Minister,
26:04
Speaker 11: knew the people who ran the club. It's a kind
26:08
Speaker 11: of argument that they're contradicting their own point here in
26:12
Speaker 11: the way these grants are handed out. There was no
26:14
Speaker 11: merit at the core of it. But now they've got
26:15
Speaker 11: themselves in a bind by claiming there was this sewerage element,
26:19
Speaker 11: which actually wasn't part of the grant at all. I
26:21
Speaker 11: hope that wasn't too long a history.
26:23
Speaker 1: No, no, that was good to know.
26:24
Speaker 2: I mean, there's also this discussion and debate about whether
26:27
Speaker 2: he did or didn't mislead Parliament over this.
26:30
Speaker 1: What's your view?
26:32
Speaker 11: Well, he clearly has got it wrong and he's admitted that.
26:35
Speaker 9: He hasn't apologised.
26:36
Speaker 11: He hasn't used the term mislead, but he did say
26:39
Speaker 11: the wrong thing in Parliament.
26:41
Speaker 9: That is clear.
26:42
Speaker 11: The Australian system doesn't really penalise misleading Parliament in the
26:45
Speaker 11: same way as the British system. In the British Parliament,
26:48
Speaker 11: there are actual consequences for that. The Australian Parliament moves
26:51
Speaker 11: on pretty quickly, which is just a function.
26:53
Speaker 9: Of our system.
26:54
Speaker 11: But he's not winning the public argument on this, so
26:58
Speaker 11: there might not be any censure in a formal sense,
27:01
Speaker 11: but it's a political problem for him that has gone
27:05
Speaker 11: from a pretty small, trivial matter to one.
27:08
Speaker 9: That goes to his.
27:09
Speaker 11: honesty and competence and political management. So the government's not
27:14
Speaker 11: having a great time with it.
27:16
Speaker 2: You've written in the paper about how the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers,
27:20
Speaker 2: is facing massive resistance to his capital gains tax changes,
27:24
Speaker 2: which he tried to rush through Parliament yesterday. And you're
27:27
Speaker 2: reporting that even Allegra Spender and Labor-linked business leaders aren't
27:33
Speaker 2: happy with the latest overhaul.
27:35
Speaker 1: What's the main sticking point?
27:38
Speaker 11: Yeah, as Liberal Senator Dave Sharma has pointed out today
27:41
Speaker 11: on social media, this is a backflip on Spender's part.
27:44
Speaker 11: She's been a long-term advocate for doing something on the CGT,
27:47
Speaker 11: but in response to Labor's budget changes, she's done consultation
27:51
Speaker 11: and genuinely spoken to business people and stakeholders in her
27:54
Speaker 11: community and determined that Labor's change went too far and
27:58
Speaker 11: might actually penalise entrepreneurs who are trying to take a
28:01
Speaker 11: risk and grow a business from scratch and become the
28:04
Speaker 11: next big thing. And what she's telling Jim Chalmers and
28:08
Speaker 11: the Prime Minister is that if the government goes forward
28:11
Speaker 11: with changes that they lumped on the parliament this week
28:13
Speaker 11: without much consultation with other crossbenchers and parliamentarians, there will
28:19
Speaker 11: be a fundamental change to our incentive system in our
28:24
Speaker 11: tax base, which discourages risk-taking right at the time when
28:27
Speaker 11: the country is struggling in a productivity crisis that's at
28:31
Speaker 11: its core. got a problem with business investment. So she's
28:35
Speaker 11: saying reverse course, have a think about what you're doing
28:37
Speaker 11: here and how you're making us globally uncompetitive.
28:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting when even the Teals are aligning with
28:44
Speaker 2: the Coalition on this. Reports in your paper again that
28:49
Speaker 2: the New South Wales government, the men's government, could lose
28:51
Speaker 2: more than a dozen seats to One Nation at the
28:53
Speaker 2: next election. That's, of course, at the higher end of
28:56
Speaker 2: the scale. But, Paul, and I've been reporting on this
28:59
Speaker 2: for a month or so now, this is why Premier
29:02
Speaker 2: Chris Minns is warning that the next opposition, and the
29:06
Speaker 2: election's just in March, he's saying one nation will either
29:08
Speaker 2: be the opposition or the government.
29:11
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's pretty shrewd from Chris Minns because he's trying
29:15
Speaker 11: to do everything he can as far out from the
29:17
Speaker 11: election as possible to reinforce in the minds of New
29:21
Speaker 11: South Wales voters that This is an election about state issues,
29:25
Speaker 11: not federal issues. So it's pretty smart from him a
29:28
Speaker 11: few months out before people are paying really close attention
29:31
Speaker 11: just to start making clear that this is about New
29:35
Speaker 11: South Wales, that One Nation is a, you know, just
29:38
Speaker 11: to make clear that his government is on the line.
29:40
Speaker 9: Here, not the Albanese government.
29:42
Speaker 11: And elevating One Nation to the extent that he has
29:44
Speaker 11: also forces voters to really pay closer attention to One Nation,
29:48
Speaker 11: which he thinks will yield the result of people, you know,
29:52
Speaker 11: scrutinising their policies and their personnel. It also marginalises the
29:55
Speaker 11: Liberal Party and casts them as irrelevant which is also
29:58
Speaker 11: politically advantageous for him.
30:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is indeed.
30:01
Speaker 2: But no question, One Nation is surging ahead in New
30:04
Speaker 2: South Wales. It's the strongest state for the party. All right, Paul,
30:07
Speaker 2: thank you so much again. All right, we're standing by
30:10
Speaker 2: to cross to our reporter and an analyst in Israel
30:13
Speaker 2: for the latest on the election results as Netanyahu pulls ahead.
30:17
Speaker 1: And Albanese uses.
30:18
Speaker 2: The excuse of lowering the temperature to avoid scrutiny over
30:22
Speaker 2: high inflation. Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson will join.
30:25
Speaker 1: Me after the break. Thanks for watching.
30:31
Speaker 2: Well, the RBA is expected to raise the cash rate
30:34
Speaker 2: again next week on Melbourne Cup Day. After trim mean inflation,
30:37
Speaker 2: the bank's preferred measure increased to 3.6% in September, above
30:42
Speaker 2: market expectations. Governor Michelle Bullock has called out Labor for
30:47
Speaker 2: its spending.
30:49
Speaker 4: Government spending, federal and state, I have to say here,
30:54
Speaker 4: all contributes to aggregate demand.
30:55
Speaker 9: In some way.
30:58
Speaker 2: Now, when Albanese and his team blamed the Middle East
31:02
Speaker 2: for inflation rising today and the opposition objected, the Prime
31:06
Speaker 2: Minister then told them to lower the temperature.
31:09
Speaker 1: Have a look.
31:10
Speaker 7: This is about the RBA governor. And we should turn
31:14
Speaker 7: the temperature down.
31:16
Speaker 1: And maybe people could stop.
31:18
Speaker 2: And joining me now is Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim,
31:21
Speaker 2: was this an off-colour attempt to avoid scrutiny by the
31:25
Speaker 2: Prime Minister, you know, to use a sentiment expressed in
31:29
Speaker 2: the wake of the Helen Haynes attack?
31:32
Speaker 10: What we've seen is a pattern of behaviour from the
31:34
Speaker 10: Prime Minister where every time he doesn't want to debate
31:36
Speaker 10: a topic, he tries to distract from it. I've no
31:40
Speaker 10: doubt this was yet another one. But the problem is
31:42
Speaker 10: Australians are living the consequences of his active inflation agenda,
31:47
Speaker 10: not of his rhetoric. Australians know that government spending is
31:51
Speaker 10: driving up inflation and, of course, interest rates. And it's
31:54
Speaker 10: the reason Australians go to the supermarket and and they're
31:57
Speaker 10: paying more and they're getting less. And what spin the
32:00
Speaker 10: Prime Minister gives, people won't buy it because they know
32:04
Speaker 10: he's responsible.
32:06
Speaker 2: I mean, the government today, I heard the Treasurer, he
32:08
Speaker 2: says the RBA has pointed to the war in the
32:11
Speaker 2: Middle East as the reason inflation is rising.
32:14
Speaker 1: Is he right?
32:17
Speaker 10: Well, what the RBA governor pointed out was that it
32:19
Speaker 10: was a compounding factor, but the underlying problem is one
32:23
Speaker 10: of government expenditure. And in Senate estimates today, the government,
32:29
Speaker 10: the Secretary of the Treasury and Treasury officials admitted that
32:33
Speaker 10: the government was spending $ 100 billion more than they claimed
32:36
Speaker 10: that they were doing, because every time they provide $ 2
32:40
Speaker 10: of saves... What they then go and do is spend
32:43
Speaker 10: an additional $ 3. So the government continues to put pressure
32:47
Speaker 10: on household budgets, on inflation and, of course, interest rates,
32:51
Speaker 10: and it's why Australians are going to the supermarket and
32:53
Speaker 10: they're paying more and they're getting less.
32:55
Speaker 2: I mean, other countries, other developed nations around the world
32:59
Speaker 2: haven't had to raise interest rates, some of them, this year.
33:04
Speaker 10: Now, we're in our fourth, and that's the 16th of,
33:07
Speaker 10: fourth this year and 16th over the life of the
33:09
Speaker 10: Albanese government. But, you know, I read out some of
33:12
Speaker 10: the numbers in Parliament today. Japan has an inflation rate
33:15
Speaker 10: with a one in front of it. The problem isn't
33:18
Speaker 10: the war in the Middle East. No one's dismissing that
33:21
Speaker 10: it's compounding the factors the RBA governor outlined. But the
33:25
Speaker 10: problem is the underlying inflation rate or the true mean rate.
33:28
Speaker 10: which has been above the RBA's target band since July
33:34
Speaker 10: of last year, a full seven months before a single
33:36
Speaker 10: bomb was dropped on Tehran. And that's why we're so
33:40
Speaker 10: confident that government spending is the driver and why the
33:44
Speaker 10: only thing that will change it is if the government
33:47
Speaker 10: pulls its belt in before it asks the Australian people
33:49
Speaker 10: to do so.
33:51
Speaker 2: Look, the property market's already in a downturn, and now
33:54
Speaker 2: the RBA is warning that a 20% decline in prices,
33:57
Speaker 2: and we are seeing that sort of levels in some areas.
34:01
Speaker 1: They're saying that that.
34:02
Speaker 2: Would result in 5% of borrowers ending up in negative equity. Now, Tim,
34:07
Speaker 2: this would be a really serious situation for a lot
34:10
Speaker 2: of young buyers who are already stretched.
34:14
Speaker 10: Absolutely, and what we know is that people who bought
34:18
Speaker 10: under the government's first home buy, or Lourdes under the
34:21
Speaker 10: government's first 5% home deposit scheme, are most exposed to this.
34:26
Speaker 10: But there are parts of the country already that are
34:28
Speaker 10: hitting those levels of property price drops. And let's never
34:32
Speaker 10: forget this. It was by design and intention of the
34:35
Speaker 10: Albanese government that they would see a fall in the
34:38
Speaker 10: primary asset value Australians have. The question is, where is
34:42
Speaker 10: the bottom? Because what we've seen is people go in stages. First,
34:48
Speaker 10: they try and find a way to hold on to
34:51
Speaker 10: their asset. Then eventually they'll rent it out if they
34:55
Speaker 10: have to. But then eventually they put things on the
34:58
Speaker 10: soft market and then the full market. And sometimes price
35:01
Speaker 10: drops can take quite a while to follow through.
35:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the market's just dropped.
35:06
Speaker 2: You know, it's not even that people are selling necessarily
35:08
Speaker 2: at a lower price. It's just there are no transactions
35:11
Speaker 2: happening because of the uncertainty. I've been reporting on the
35:15
Speaker 2: tensions between the Prime Minister and the Treasurer, and the
35:18
Speaker 2: PM was asked about some of this today.
35:20
Speaker 1: He seemed defensive.
35:22
Speaker 7: Under this Treasurer, debt in 2025-26 is $ 198 billion lower.
35:31
Speaker 7: This is a Treasurer who takes his responsibilities on the
35:35
Speaker 7: economy seriously. And it is hard to take those opposite seriously,
35:43
Speaker 7: given their performance today.
35:45
Speaker 2: I mean, Tim, given the government is under such pressure
35:48
Speaker 2: over the economy, shouldn't the Coalition be further ahead? You know,
35:52
Speaker 2: do you think you could be doing a better job?
35:56
Speaker 10: I think we've absolutely made it clear to the Australian
35:58
Speaker 10: people how much of a failure this Prime Minister and
36:01
Speaker 10: this Treasurer has been. What I'm seeing now is a
36:05
Speaker 10: kind of circling of the guard because they know how
36:08
Speaker 10: unpopular the Prime Minister is. We know how unpopular the
36:11
Speaker 10: Treasurer is. And the Prime Minister has to back in
36:14
Speaker 10: his Treasurer because if not, it risks his own political
36:18
Speaker 10: neck in the process. When I watched that speech from
36:21
Speaker 10: the Prime Minister today, it was extraordinary. It was like
36:24
Speaker 10: he was patting his Treasurer on the back and saying,
36:27
Speaker 10: this is my Treasurer, I'm ambitious for him. To me,
36:30
Speaker 10: we were almost at the point where it looked like
36:32
Speaker 10: he was going to fall by Christmas because the Prime
36:36
Speaker 10: Minister knows how much of a liability the Federal Treasurer is.
36:40
Speaker 10: So much of his spin no longer cuts through or
36:42
Speaker 10: works for him because he hasn't changed the changing conditions.
36:46
Speaker 10: But the one thing that has changed is Australians now
36:49
Speaker 10: know the government, through their spending, is going on and
36:52
Speaker 10: contributing to rising interest rates. and their financial pain.
36:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
36:57
Speaker 2: There's a lot of speculation about whether there'll be a change.
36:59
Speaker 2: All right, Tim Wilson, thank you very much for joining us.
37:02
Speaker 2: All right, still to come, Michael Kroger will be on the.
37:04
Speaker 1: Show to reveal how ASIO told him he was on
37:08
Speaker 1: an Iranian target list.
37:10
Speaker 2: And after the break, we'll cross live to Israel for
37:12
Speaker 2: the latest election results.
37:14
Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere.
37:19
Speaker 2: OK, let's get the latest on the Israeli election results.
37:22
Speaker 2: It's 11.42am local time and I'm joined live from Israel
37:26
Speaker 2: by The Daily Telegraph's state political editor, James O'Doherty, and
37:30
Speaker 2: international law expert Professor Eugene Kontorovich.
37:33
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both.
37:35
Speaker 2: James, starting with you, can you give us an update
37:37
Speaker 2: on the results as they stand now?
37:41
Speaker 9: Yes, good evening, Shari.
37:43
Speaker 12: 76% of the votes have been counted here in Israel,
37:46
Speaker 12: and that's giving Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party the
37:52
Speaker 12: majority of the votes. The coalition block is at something
37:56
Speaker 12: like 54, predicted to get 54 seats in Israel's 120-seat parliament,
38:01
Speaker 12: the Knesset. The change block, led by former IDF Chief
38:05
Speaker 12: Gaddy Eisenkot, That's looking at getting 47 seats in that
38:09
Speaker 12: parliament with Arab parties increasing their vote to around 19 seats. Crucially, though,
38:15
Speaker 12: no one side has a majority in that 120-seat Knesset.
38:21
Speaker 12: They need 61 votes. The change bloc doesn't have it.
38:25
Speaker 12: Neither does Benjamin Netanyahu at this time.
38:28
Speaker 1: Eugene, many were predicting a stalemate.
38:30
Speaker 2: So this is a stronger-than-expected result for Netanyahu, isn't it?
38:35
Speaker 13: Yes, absolutely. I think he's shown that people in the
38:39
Speaker 13: end place approval of his significant performance, his significant achievements
38:46
Speaker 13: in the war started on October 7th over casting blame
38:49
Speaker 13: and accountability over October 7th itself. So, you know, much
38:53
Speaker 13: of the opposition's campaign was that because Netanyahu was in
38:56
Speaker 13: power on October 7th, he bears responsibility or at least
39:00
Speaker 13: accountability for And the campaign for Netanyahu relied very much
39:05
Speaker 13: on the extraordinary successes of the campaigns against Hamas, Hezbollah
39:10
Speaker 13: and Iran. And ultimately the voters thought that was more important.
39:15
Speaker 2: James, the next step in the process now is for
39:18
Speaker 2: the Israeli President Isaac Herzog to invite one leader.
39:22
Speaker 1: To form a government. Can you tell us how this
39:24
Speaker 1: will play out?
39:26
Speaker 9: Yes, that's right.
39:27
Speaker 12: Here in Israel, under the proportional representations no one party
39:32
Speaker 12: ever gets majority. So the party with the most likelihood
39:36
Speaker 12: of forming a government is invited by President Herzog to
39:39
Speaker 12: try and form one, to cobble together votes in the
39:42
Speaker 12: Knesset from other parties.
39:44
Speaker 9: So in the coming days, when those.
39:46
Speaker 12: Votes are counted, President Herzog will choose who he thinks
39:49
Speaker 12: is most likely to be able to form government, give
39:52
Speaker 12: them 28 days to form a government that has the
39:55
Speaker 12: support of the Knesset, and that's when a government will
39:58
Speaker 12: be formed. Importantly, it doesn't have to be the party
40:01
Speaker 12: with the most votes. President Herzog could choose a party
40:04
Speaker 12: or the leader that he thinks is most likely to
40:08
Speaker 12: form government, whether that is Gaddi Eisenkot or Benjamin Netanyahu.
40:12
Speaker 12: But until that government is formed, Benjamin Netanyahu is essentially
40:16
Speaker 12: the caretaker prime minister.
40:18
Speaker 9: He's still in charge.
40:19
Speaker 12: Both sides are claiming a mandate, but there's still plenty
40:23
Speaker 12: of counting still to go.
40:23
Speaker 9: Mm-hmm.
40:25
Speaker 2: I've been in touch tonight with a contact in Netanyahu's office.
40:30
Speaker 2: They're expecting to get to 57 seats. They're on 54
40:34
Speaker 2: at the moment.
40:36
Speaker 1: But, Eugene, you know, they need 61.
40:38
Speaker 2: The other parties have promised they wouldn't do a deal,
40:42
Speaker 2: they wouldn't.
40:43
Speaker 1: Help Netanyahu form government.
40:44
Speaker 2: So do you think there's a possibility some will break
40:48
Speaker 2: their promise?
40:49
Speaker 1: Eugene?
40:50
Speaker 13: Yeah, so definitely the opposition parties have made completely incompatible promises.
40:55
Speaker 13: They said they won't sit with Netanyahu, they won't sit
40:58
Speaker 13: with the ultra-Orthodox parties, and they also won't sit with
41:01
Speaker 13: the anti-Zionist Arab parties. But without them, they don't have
41:05
Speaker 13: a government. So there either needs to be some kind
41:08
Speaker 13: of unity government, in other words, some of the parties
41:10
Speaker 13: need to come together, though they've said they wouldn't, or
41:13
Speaker 13: there would have to be a minority government, in which
41:16
Speaker 13: Eisenhower relies on support from Arab parties that are not
41:20
Speaker 13: in the government, just to replace Netanyahu, or new elections.
41:25
Speaker 2: Or Netanyahu finds a party that will support him.
41:29
Speaker 13: There's different ways of unity, right? One way is Bibi
41:32
Speaker 13: breaks someone off from the left's block, or they really
41:36
Speaker 13: come together in a bigger way. For example, one possible
41:38
Speaker 13: scenario would be that Eisenkot's party, the largest party in
41:41
Speaker 13: the opposition, and Netanyahu's party form a very stable base
41:45
Speaker 13: for a national unity government. I think that's what a
41:47
Speaker 13: lot of people in Israel want, because these are very
41:50
Speaker 13: difficult times for Israel. There's an ongoing conflict with Iran.
41:53
Speaker 13: Hezbollah is trying to reconstitute itself in Lebanon and Hamas
41:57
Speaker 13: in Gaza. National unity is really, you know, something that
42:01
Speaker 13: people like in times of war rather than a minority
42:05
Speaker 13: government or yet another round of elections.
42:08
Speaker 2: James, I want to get a bit of a vibe
42:10
Speaker 2: from you about what the mood has been like in Israel.
42:13
Speaker 1: You've been there I think around a week and a
42:16
Speaker 1: half now.
42:18
Speaker 12: Yes, that's right, a week with the Jewish Board of
42:20
Speaker 12: Deputies and since Sunday here by myself.
42:23
Speaker 9: Look, the mood is, it's really fascinating.
42:26
Speaker 12: Israelis love voting in elections and exercising their democratic right,
42:31
Speaker 12: voluntary voting here in Israel, as you know, but the
42:35
Speaker 12: participation rate is huge. 77% of Israelis cast a vote
42:39
Speaker 12: at this election. That's the highest since 1999. And the
42:43
Speaker 12: thing that has really struck me since being here is
42:45
Speaker 12: just how seriously Israelis take that responsibility. For them, forming
42:50
Speaker 12: a new government is not just about domestic issues, tax,
42:53
Speaker 12: cost of living. It does seem that there is this existential,
42:59
Speaker 12: they feel this existential.
43:00
Speaker 9: Risk, as you would appreciate.
43:02
Speaker 12: Being in a part of the world that has been
43:04
Speaker 12: wracked by conflict for centuries, they know that the choice
43:08
Speaker 12: of government is going to have real implications for them
43:12
Speaker 12: in their day-to-day life, whether they go to war, whether
43:15
Speaker 12: the war in Gaza continues and who is held responsible
43:18
Speaker 12: for October 7.
43:19
Speaker 9: So it really is like a crucible of democracy here, Sharon.
43:25
Speaker 2: Just finally, before we go, Eugene, I saw that Trump
43:28
Speaker 2: has come out and claimed some responsibility for Netanyahu's success.
43:34
Speaker 2: He said that his endorsement shifted the momentum in Netanyahu's favour.
43:38
Speaker 1: What's your reflection on this?
43:41
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think it's a possibility, but it's also just
43:44
Speaker 13: as likely that the polls under-reflected Netanyahu's popularity because of
43:50
Speaker 13: the so-called shy Tory effect and perhaps even because of
43:54
Speaker 13: purposeful bad design and bias amongst the pollsters. In other words,
43:58
Speaker 13: it may not be that Bibi overperformed his polls. It
44:01
Speaker 13: may be the polls were simply wildly inaccurate.
44:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think he made some comments to that
44:08
Speaker 2: effect last night. All right, Eugene and James, thank you
44:12
Speaker 2: both so much for joining us.
44:13
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. All right. After the break, Michael Kroger.
44:16
Speaker 2: Joins me to tell us just how he was informed
44:19
Speaker 2: that he'd been put on an Iranian target list.
44:23
Speaker 1: That's next.
44:27
Speaker 2: Well, ASIO Director General Mike Burgess confirmed that two Australians
44:31
Speaker 2: have been targeted by Iranian intelligence. myself and my regular
44:35
Speaker 2: Wednesday guest, Michael Kroger. In my case, it was a
44:39
Speaker 2: two-month intelligence sting where a senior former Trump official's personal
44:43
Speaker 2: account was infiltrated by a suspected Iranian agent. In Kroger's case,
44:48
Speaker 2: he was on an Iranian target list. And Michael joins
44:52
Speaker 2: me now. Michael, thank you. Look, our stories are different
44:56
Speaker 2: because I knew immediately I'd.
44:59
Speaker 1: Been the subject of a cyber attack, but you didn't.
45:02
Speaker 1: How did you find out?
45:07
Speaker 14: Well, look, about two months ago, something happened to my
45:10
Speaker 14: phone and computer and being a bit of a technology infidel,
45:17
Speaker 14: my children just said to me that I'd pressed the
45:19
Speaker 14: wrong button. So I didn't take much notice of it
45:23
Speaker 14: until ASIO phoned me and asked to have a meeting.
45:26
Speaker 14: And they said, you've probably been the subject of a
45:30
Speaker 14: cyber attack by the Iranian government. And then as the
45:34
Speaker 14: rest is history, Mike Burgess phoned me and gave me
45:37
Speaker 14: some other information, which I won't go into publicly, but
45:40
Speaker 14: in the same boat as you, Shari, we've both been
45:43
Speaker 14: on this list. And, you know, obviously these things are worrying.
45:47
Speaker 14: I don't think anyone's really safe in the modern world
45:50
Speaker 14: to a rogue regime like the Iranian government. I mean, look,
45:54
Speaker 14: if Donald Trump can be almost assassinated, if Charlie Kerr
45:57
Speaker 14: can be assassinated, you know, it's very hard for people
46:02
Speaker 14: to remain safe in the modern world. So who knows
46:07
Speaker 14: what's going to happen to anyone? And you look at
46:09
Speaker 14: this terrible incident in Australia last week to that outstanding MP.
46:12
Speaker 14: I mean, really, you know, just one rogue person. So
46:15
Speaker 14: I don't think anyone's really safe these days, Shari.
46:20
Speaker 2: So the way Burgess described it when I interviewed him
46:22
Speaker 2: and I published these comments on our website and here
46:26
Speaker 2: last night, he said that you were on an Iranian
46:29
Speaker 2: to-do list or an Iranian target list. I mean, were
46:33
Speaker 2: you shocked or what was your reaction when ASIO first
46:37
Speaker 2: told you about this?
46:42
Speaker 6: Well, I was bemused.
46:45
Speaker 14: There would have been, you know, quite frankly, there'd be
46:48
Speaker 14: more important targets than me, no doubt as important as
46:52
Speaker 14: I am in the modern world.
46:53
Speaker 6: In world affairs.
46:54
Speaker 14: There probably would be Australian commentators and public figures who
46:58
Speaker 14: would somewhat more influential than me.
47:00
Speaker 6: So I was bemused.
47:03
Speaker 14: But then you think to yourself, you know, when you've
47:05
Speaker 14: got family and children as you have, that you have
47:08
Speaker 14: to take these things incredibly seriously. I mean, ASIO is
47:12
Speaker 14: an outstanding organisation. That fellow Burgess, to me, seems quite outstanding.
47:16
Speaker 14: He served Liberal and Labor and everyone seems to have
47:19
Speaker 14: a very high regard for him. So if he rings
47:20
Speaker 14: you and tells you things, you obviously take what he
47:23
Speaker 14: says incredibly seriously, as I have. So I was surprised
47:28
Speaker 14: in the sense that, you know, surely there are more
47:30
Speaker 14: important targets than me and you.
47:33
Speaker 6: But at the same time, I mean, let's call a
47:35
Speaker 6: spade a spade here.
47:36
Speaker 14: We've both said and I've said repeatedly that I think
47:39
Speaker 14: Iran is the centre of evil in the modern world.
47:43
Speaker 14: If that Iranian government falls, then Hezbollah falls, Hamas falls,
47:47
Speaker 14: the Houthis fall. And a lot of these sort of
47:50
Speaker 14: anti-Jewish sort of neo-Nazi groups around the world parading as
47:54
Speaker 14: Palestinian freedom fighters will collapse because they won't get funding,
47:58
Speaker 14: et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So this government is
48:01
Speaker 14: incredibly dangerous and they are the most evil regime in
48:06
Speaker 14: the world today. And that's saying something, given we've got
48:10
Speaker 14: some other communist regimes that are causing the.
48:12
Speaker 6: Odd bit of trouble.
48:14
Speaker 2: Do you think the Albanese government needs to realise more
48:17
Speaker 2: that Iran isn't a distant threat, but it is actively
48:21
Speaker 2: currently targeting Australians on Australian soil.
48:27
Speaker 6: Of course, of course.
48:29
Speaker 14: And I saw that extraordinary cross-examination by James Paterson this morning.
48:34
Speaker 6: It was excruciating to.
48:37
Speaker 14: Watch Paterson, who was utterly outstanding, outstanding performance by Paterson
48:43
Speaker 14: and Wong screaming and those officials, I feel sorry for them.
48:47
Speaker 14: I mean, clearly the whole Palestinian recognition, the recognition of
48:51
Speaker 14: the Palestinian state, the mistake she made at the UN,
48:57
Speaker 14: sort of.
48:57
Speaker 6: Saying, oh, yes, we kicked out the ambassador.
48:59
Speaker 14: I mean, big deal. I mean, there's so much. This
49:03
Speaker 14: government has been shocking. And, you know, on a similar topic, Shari,
49:08
Speaker 14: Albanese says you need to turn the temperature down. You've
49:10
Speaker 14: got to remember this. You don't need to say anything
49:13
Speaker 14: to turn the temperature up. You know, silence can be golden,
49:17
Speaker 14: can say a lot.
49:18
Speaker 6: So, for example.
49:20
Speaker 14: If you refuse to hold a royal commission into anti-Semitism
49:24
Speaker 14: and you let people know you are opposed to a
49:28
Speaker 14: royal commission into anti-Semitism and Jewish hatred, you don't need
49:32
Speaker 14: to say anything publicly for everyone in the country to
49:35
Speaker 14: know exactly what you're thinking, exactly who you are and
49:38
Speaker 14: exactly what type of person you are. So it's not
49:41
Speaker 14: the spoken word alone that does immense damage. It's the
49:44
Speaker 14: unspoken word. And that's where this Labor government federally, I think,
49:48
Speaker 14: has just been utterly appalling. Disgraceful.
49:50
Speaker 1: Well said.
49:52
Speaker 2: Michael, I hope you've gone back to your children and
49:54
Speaker 2: said you're not a Luddite with tech.
49:56
Speaker 1: It was Iran. It was state-sponsored hackers.
50:01
Speaker 6: Well, we're still here. We're both still here, Shari.
50:04
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying with your children when they just said
50:06
Speaker 2: you were hopeless with tech when your computer wasn't working.
50:09
Speaker 13: Oh, right.
50:09
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:10
Speaker 11: All right.
50:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
50:12
Speaker 6: It was around. I've told them that.
50:13
Speaker 1: You've told them, yeah.
50:14
Speaker 6: Thanks, Sherry. Good.
50:14
Speaker 1: All right. Thanks, Michael. Appreciate it. All right.
50:17
Speaker 2: And I'll see you tomorrow night at 8 o'clock. Thank
50:20
Speaker 2: you so much for watching.
50:21
Speaker 1: Right now, here's Paul Murray.