Latest / Common Mystics / 128: The Confession of Charlie Johnson, The First Legally Hanged Man in Etowah County, AL

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128: The Confession of Charlie Johnson, The First Legally Hanged Man in Etowah County, AL · Common Mystics

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hey, guys, it's Jill. Jen and I wanted to give you a heads up about the content on today's episode. It may be triggering for more sensitive audiences. Refer to the show notes for more specifics and take care while you listen.
• 0:22
  Speaker B: On this episode of Common Mystics, we uncover the chilling story of a man sentenced to death in 1889 in the deep South. Convicted of murder under dubious circumstances, his tale is filled with startling revelations that will leave you questioning everything. I'm Jennifer James.
• 0:47
  Speaker A: I'm Jill. Stanley.
• 0:49
  Speaker B: We're psychics.
• 0:50
  Speaker A: We're sisters.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. And today's story takes us to Etowah County, Alabama.
• 1:02
  Speaker A: So when we were just doing the introduction just now, I was going to say my maiden name. I'm Jill. And I was like, yes, Stanley.
• 1:12
  Speaker B: Jill. Remind our listeners where we were and where a home base was.
• 1:17
  Speaker A: So our niece Kelly was getting married in Chattanooga. So we did something unusual for us. We had a home base in Chattanooga. And then we would set out each day in a different direction, asking the spirits to come through. Can you remind everyone what our intention is?
• 1:36
  Speaker B: Our intention is always to find a verifiable story previously unknown to us that allows us to give voice to the voiceless.
• 1:45
  Speaker A: Now, I will tell you, this is the day that you were in the car fucking around, and the guy was next to us, and he was like, it was so embarrassing. That was this day, right?
• 1:54
  Speaker B: We were sitting in the parking lot doing the Intention, and it was embarrassing. It was very embarrassing because someone saw us and we were like, we're not doing anything weird. Anyway.
• 2:05
  Speaker A: So, Jennifer.
• 2:06
  Speaker B: So, yes.
• 2:07
  Speaker A: You put together this outline. Take me through the hit.
• 2:11
  Speaker B: You had the first hit. You were. Should we just use our maiden name?
• 2:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's why I was.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: Gonna say my maiden name. Just do it.
• 2:23
  Speaker A: My birth name. My birth name was Jill Elizabeth Jarvis. And Jennifer.
• 2:33
  Speaker B: So what was your name? Jennifer Jarvis was my name. Anyway, the point. The point is, Jill. The point is that you were picking up on the name Jarvis in the car. I wrote it down in the notes. We were driving in Alabama. We had been in DeKalb County. And do you remember how dogs. We kept like, yes, seeing dogs. And there was this one guy, and he was on his porch with a dog.
• 3:06
  Speaker A: And the dog was like a German shepherd. And he looked mad.
• 3:08
  Speaker B: The dog looked mad. And it was like. It was a guard dog. And usually we're like, oh, cute. It was not cute. It was like.
• 3:14
  Speaker A: It was on high alert.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: It was on high alert.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: It was like, keep driving, you Yankee. I knew he. I knew he knew we weren't from around there.
• 3:21
  Speaker B: True. And then we stopped at this cemetery called Old Antioch Cemetery in DeKalb County.
• 3:27
  Speaker A: True.
• 3:28
  Speaker B: Do you remember what happened there?
• 3:30
  Speaker A: Yes. First of all, I was already feeling a little wigged out, like. And we were walking around the cemetery and we start hearing this dog barking.
• 3:41
  Speaker B: Uh huh.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: And I was like, no, absolutely not.
• 3:45
  Speaker B: We actually turned around and ran to the car as if a dog was gonna show up and just start chasing us. That's what it felt like.
• 3:53
  Speaker A: That's exactly what it felt like.
• 3:54
  Speaker B: We never saw a dog.
• 3:55
  Speaker A: Never saw a dog.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: Never saw a dog. But we heard the barking. It sounded ferocious. And we're like, f this. And we ran.
• 4:02
  Speaker A: Absolutely. I remember that.
• 4:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. You were also picking up on some very specific references. Can you tell us about those references to evil?
• 4:16
  Speaker A: See, I didn't know it was evil. I literally didn't know it was evil.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: Tell us, what was it?
• 4:21
  Speaker A: So when we were in the cemetery before we ran for our lives, I was picking up in my head the song Bohemian Rhapsody. I see a little silhouette up of a man. See, I did not know that it had any reference to evil.
• 4:38
  Speaker B: Oh, okay. You specifically said in the car you were seeing the dark faces. From the video.
• 4:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, from the video. Because if you see in the video.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker A: Everyone see, it's almost like. It's almost like they are lit.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 4:57
  Speaker A: In front of them. But their faces come out of the dark and every side of their light is like a different angle of their face.
• 5:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 5:04
  Speaker A: So it. It looks like the spooky circle of faces, of faces.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: Right. It's like when you have a sleepover and you put the flashlight under your chin and you tell a spooky story.
• 5:15
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 5:16
  Speaker B: All right. But there was also a movie, Jill, that came to mind. What movie came to your mind? Right around the time that Bohemian Rhapsody was. Oh, yes. What was it, Jill? Which movie?
• 5:27
  Speaker A: The Exorcist.
• 5:28
  Speaker B: Uh huh. Okay. And so you think of that as a feel good film or is it? Indeed.
• 5:33
  Speaker A: It's one of my favorites. It's actually one of my favorite films. And I do not think of it as a feel good. But I often. This is not a lie. I will often put it on to go to sleep.
• 5:44
  Speaker B: Are you serious?
• 5:46
  Speaker A: Swear.
• 5:46
  Speaker B: You know what, dude? That is half of your problem right there. You put that on before you go to sleep.
• 5:54
  Speaker A: I know what's gonna happen.
• 5:57
  Speaker B: Don't do that anymore.
• 5:59
  Speaker A: And The Exorcist Part 3, that's actually a Funny movie.
• 6:03
  Speaker B: You guys, seriously, you should not be putting on scary movies before you go to bed. Especially one with the devil. Like that is the main character in that movie. Nice.
• 6:11
  Speaker A: Well, Linda Blair is the main Regan in Captain Howdy.
• 6:17
  Speaker B: All right, so, Jill, other than the devil you were getting, you were getting hills.
• 6:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I was. I was telling you that, you know, maybe there wasn't a dog. Maybe there's just the sound bouncing off the hills.
• 6:31
  Speaker B: Oh, interesting. Okay.
• 6:33
  Speaker A: As we were running for our lives back, like, maybe we're okay.
• 6:36
  Speaker B: And then there was another song that you were getting. Honestly, all these hits are yours and they're crazy. What? What's the other song?
• 6:44
  Speaker A: It's one of the best songs. It's one of the best songs from my 90s childhood. It is Gin and Juice by Snoop Dogga Dog.
• 6:52
  Speaker B: Uh huh.
• 6:53
  Speaker A: Laid back with my mind all my.
• 6:56
  Speaker B: Money and my money yeah, you're that.
• 6:59
  Speaker A: Tempo is not gonna do it.
• 7:01
  Speaker B: All right. Do it, do it right.
• 7:04
  Speaker A: Laid back with my mind on my money and my money on the mind yeah.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: All right.
• 7:11
  Speaker A: Because we don't love them hoes yeah, we gonna smoke an ounce of this Jesus bounce to this. Rolling down the street smoking and dough Sipping on gin and juice do we have to pay for that?
• 7:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, don't sing it anymore.
• 7:27
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 7:28
  Speaker B: Okay. So we enter a town called Gadsden, Alabama.
• 7:32
  Speaker A: We sure did.
• 7:33
  Speaker B: Located in Ottoa County. And we get out of the car and we explore the cute historic downtown. Jill, can you describe the downtown area of Gadsden?
• 7:47
  Speaker A: You know, it's interesting. It is cute. It reminds me of a movie set. Like almost Hill Valley.
• 7:58
  Speaker B: What's that? Hill Valley. Back to the Future.
• 8:00
  Speaker A: Back to the Future. Did you know? Did I tell. I know I told you this. Hill Valley from Back to the Future. Gremlins and A Wonderful Life all share the same set.
• 8:08
  Speaker B: You did tell me that.
• 8:09
  Speaker A: It's all the same set. So that's how it felt. It felt like a movie set.
• 8:13
  Speaker B: Yes. Yes.
• 8:14
  Speaker A: And this is relevant for our next story. But there were speakers on the light poles playing music.
• 8:22
  Speaker B: Old music. Old music, yeah. So it literally felt like we were on a movie set, but it also felt thick with spirits, did it not?
• 8:31
  Speaker A: There's. There's a lot of energy going around.
• 8:34
  Speaker B: A lot of energy.
• 8:36
  Speaker A: It felt, you know, it was cute. It was just so cute. But I. I wouldn't buy property there. You know what I mean? Like, like you cute, but you crazy, you know, like that's the. That's the vibe. Because, like, you cute, but I don't know. About you.
• 8:53
  Speaker B: There was a sign that I saw in downtown Gadsden that I took note of because I thought it was interesting with all of the dog references. There was a sign commemorating a man named Billy Ray Bulldog Williams who happened to be an Etowa county commissioner who died in 2002. But I made note of Bulldog Williams in the notes because I felt like it was significant.
• 9:19
  Speaker A: This next significant event really pissed me off.
• 9:22
  Speaker B: Okay, tell us about it.
• 9:24
  Speaker A: Okay, so it's April 1st, and we are driving through this area and we see a sign saying Free puppies with each book from the local library. So of course I'm like. And I'm turning around in a fire station, totally cutting off traffic, to get back to the library to find the puppies.
• 9:50
  Speaker B: And were there puppies, Jill?
• 9:52
  Speaker A: No, no, no.
• 9:54
  Speaker B: There was Jennifer Fools.
• 9:57
  Speaker A: It was an April Fools.
• 9:58
  Speaker B: I was really mad.
• 10:00
  Speaker A: Do you even know we were both Level of anger. First of all, there was like, I don't want to talk too much, but.
• 10:07
  Speaker B: I'm going, no, let's not talk shit. The thing is, you don't promise because.
• 10:12
  Speaker A: Of the puppies, the puppy. I would never talk shit if it wasn't for the puppy situation. Okay? We go in their fucking library. There are fucking four librarians just chitty chatting in this small. It's not like, how do you guys employ four librarians?
• 10:25
  Speaker B: And no puppies?
• 10:26
  Speaker A: And no puppies.
• 10:27
  Speaker B: And no puppies.
• 10:28
  Speaker A: Somebody could have went out and got a puppy, or at least a stuffed puppy, you know, something, something. And I want to know. I wanted to, like, sit down. Those librarians who were just talking it up and yakking a yakking and being like, which one of you thought this would be fucking funny? And you guys have such a sick sense of humor. That's not okay.
• 10:48
  Speaker B: It wasn't right. Okay, it wasn't right. But it got us in there. We looked around for a little bit, but I noticed in this one section where the periodicals were, that there was a slew of these papers called the Historical News. And they were free to take. It was really just a vehicle for local advertising. But within them, they printed old news articles from the area. And I happened to pick up 1, volume 43. And I happened to turn to page 18, standing there in the library, and the name Jarvis appears on the top left hand side of the page. And I'm like, what is happening? Jill was just talking about that name when we were in the car. This must be a card name, Our name. So I double checked with the librarians. If they were free to take. And then I took a bunch of them home and I had them folded up in the notebook.
• 11:48
  Speaker A: Interesting.
• 11:49
  Speaker B: And I took those home when I began the research.
• 11:53
  Speaker A: Jennifer, tell us about your research.
• 11:58
  Speaker B: So I was reviewing the notes from our March April trip in 2016.
• 12:02
  Speaker A: I just want to say I love having you help and do the research because it's so much fun and it brings you life. Right? Don't you enjoy doing the research and finding the story?
• 12:13
  Speaker B: It was very fun finding this story. And honestly, Jill, you blow me away with stuff that you picked up on. I can't wait to get into it because I'm.
• 12:22
  Speaker A: You stop. You stop that right now.
• 12:25
  Speaker B: You really are incredible. You picked up on so much. So I reviewed and do you know what I have to say?
• 12:31
  Speaker A: Do you mean incredible like the Natalie Merchant song, I Must be one of the wonders Ghats of creation? Is that what you mean by that?
• 12:42
  Speaker B: I mean that you're a really good psychic is what I mean. And I'm not even throwing shade. But the way this story came about is also. Was also really intuitive on my part. So I want to kind of take us through.
• 12:55
  Speaker A: So I'm looking at. I will tell you that I'm impressed that you found this story, and I'll tell you why. Because I've been studying Gadsden to try to find the story for like a month, and I did not find the story. And I did find a story from Gadson, but it seems like it's bookends. Like your story that you found in my story. I'm kind of excited. So please. Okay, wait. No more. Unveiled.
• 13:20
  Speaker B: All right, so I was reviewing the notes from our trip, and I also had those copies of the historical newspapers that I had taken from the bitch ass librarians who promised us free puppies and then never delivered.
• 13:33
  Speaker A: Not even a stage stuff puppy.
• 13:36
  Speaker B: So randomly, I pick up one of the multiple copies of the historical news, and I opened it and I turned to crime news 1871-1892. That's what it says at the top of the page. It's the same page that I looked at when we were standing in the library together. And it's the Jarvis story that's on that page. Page 18.
• 14:00
  Speaker A: The Jarvises were criminals back then too.
• 14:05
  Speaker B: So I'm like, okay, this particular page, I happened to pick it up in the library and then I happen to open it. Now our voice list has to be on this page, right? So there's like so many different crime stories on this page. Okay. Some are little blurbs, some are Longer. And I spend hours in different rabbit holes trying to figure out which story has our voice list.
• 14:27
  Speaker A: That's what happens.
• 14:28
  Speaker B: I have no luck. And so then I get a little frustrated and I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to step back from these historic crime stories because I don't have like three weeks to figure out who the voiceless is. So I go to the Internet and I do kind of like a down and dirty little trick that sometimes works. And so I type in.
• 14:47
  Speaker A: It's sounds provocative. I type in a dirty little trick that really works.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: Etowah County History Ghosts. Because a lot of times the voiceless will come through as a haunting, and you will sometimes see that. So I was like, you know what? I put that. I put the newspaper down. I type in Etowah county history ghosts. The first result is an article from the Gadsden Times about hauntings in Gadsden, Alabama. And it highlights the story of Charlie Johnson, the first man legally hanged in Etowah County, Alabama. And I was like, wait a minute. Charlie Johnson? That name sounds familiar. I look back at the historical news, volume 43, page 19, and lo and behold, I see the following blurb from The Vernon Courier, January 2, 1890. Quote, Charles Johnson, alias Wade Holmes, was hung in Gadsden for the murder of policeman Kidney last November. That was our story.
• 15:56
  Speaker A: Damn.
• 15:57
  Speaker B: And it was on that page with the Jarvis story.
• 16:00
  Speaker A: Damn.
• 16:02
  Speaker B: But I needed to step away to find it. So the first thing I did was I wanted to learn a little bit more about Gadsden as a place.
• 16:10
  Speaker A: I like when you do this. Take us through the history of Gadsden.
• 16:14
  Speaker B: Okay, a brief, brief history. Gadsden, Alabama, is a city located in the northeastern part of the state in Atowa County. The city of Gadsden sits along the Coosa river, offering beautiful scenic views, but also a rich history. Like most other places in the United States, the Gadsden area was originally home to indigenous peoples who are deeply connected to the fertile land there along the Coosa River. And this region belonged to a people who were Mississippian in culture, the network of Native American civilizations that ranged very early, from 800 to 1600 A.D. the area near present day Gadsden was part of the chiefdom of Cusa, the same name as the river. And the chiefdom of Coosa was a very powerful entity that dominated trade and alliances across the southeast. So there happened to be a very powerful Mississippian culture living in Gadsden between 800 to 1600 A.D. wow. These are also the same peoples who did all the mounds that you see up and down along the Mississippi? It's the same Mississippian culture.
• 17:31
  Speaker A: Stop it.
• 17:33
  Speaker B: Their very old culture.
• 17:36
  Speaker A: We're familiar with that now.
• 17:38
  Speaker B: European exploration, of course, changed everything. Right. So in Gadsden, European exploration began just 48 years after Columbus arrived in the Americas. 48 years. I want you to think about that for a minute, because that means that Gadsden is old af, not only because of the old indigenous population that lived there, but the Europeans were there so much earlier than most of the other country, most of the rest of the country, I should say. So. Do you remember the name Hernando de Soto from history class in middle school.
• 18:21
  Speaker A: And from our podcast we've spoken about DeSoto.
• 18:23
  Speaker B: Before De Soto was a Spaniard, he was a conquistador, and he landed in Florida, present day Florida, in 1539. And then after arriving in Florida, he spent three years exploring much of the southeastern United States, including the area now known as Gadsden.
• 18:50
  Speaker A: Interesting.
• 18:51
  Speaker B: I want to tell you something about DeSoto, because 10 years before he was poking around Gadsden, he was part of an expedition to Peru in South America. And that was where the Spanish captured the Inca emperor. And the Spanish were offered a massive ransom of gold and silver for the emperor's release. And they were given, like, this room of gold that the Incas just had. And it was one of the largest hauls of precious metals ever to be collected by the Spanish in the Americas.
• 19:28
  Speaker A: That is so messed up. Is that the detour?
• 19:33
  Speaker B: No, it's not the detour. I have a better idea for the detours, but we'll talk about that later, okay? It is so messed up. So here he is ten years later, and he's looking for more gold because he scored big in Peru. Yeah. And so that's what he's primarily doing. He's looking for territories. He's looking for riches.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: And.
• 19:50
  Speaker B: And so in 1540, he led over 600 Spaniards into Alabama and explored the southeast. And he came across this stunning, pristine valley surrounding the Coosa river, home to the Coosa people. Now, there weren't any rooms of gold to plunder in Alabama, but they were jerks anyway. They demanded food, they. They demanded supplies using force when necessary. And the Port Cusa people were like, we have never seen anything like this. So they, you know, were allowed themselves to be taken advantage of by these Spaniards. And, of course, the Spaniards left behind diseases, diseases that devastated pretty much the entire population of the Cusa society in the years that followed.
• 20:44
  Speaker A: That sucks so bad.
• 20:46
  Speaker B: But here's what happened with the decline of the Coosa chiefdom. That created a power vacuum. And that's when other Native American groups like the Cherokee and the Creek moved into the area. Oh, yeah, and then the Cherokee and the Creek lived there for hundreds of years before Europeans started to pretty much settle the land.
• 21:11
  Speaker A: Right, yeah, we know about that.
• 21:13
  Speaker B: We know about that. And we know that in the 1830s, there was the forced displacement of the Native Americans, primarily the Cherokee, but also the Creeks via the Trail of Tears. That cleared the way for European American settlers to occupy that land.
• 21:28
  Speaker A: And that led to the development of.
• 21:32
  Speaker B: Modern day trade and transport along the Coosa river and. And the development of Gadsden as an important trading post and later an industrial hub, particularly with the rise of river powered mills and the railroad. Now, here comes the Civil war in the 1860s, and the Coosa river is a major waterway for transporting goods, primarily agricultural products like cotton and food supplies that supported the Confederate military. Gadsden's proximity to developing railroads in Alabama made it an integral part of the region's wartime logistics.
• 22:14
  Speaker A: I had no clue.
• 22:16
  Speaker B: Neither did I. And we were there walking around the streets.
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy talk. Okay.
• 22:22
  Speaker B: Now, during the conflict, Gadsden citizens faced so many hardships because the men joined the Confederate army, leaving families to manage the farms and businesses. So women, children and the elderly were struggling to maintain life under these difficult conditions. And the war caused economic hardships for the south, with the Union blockades disrupting trade and leading to shortages, inflation, and widespread uncertainty for residents, including those in Gadsden. And so the Civil War has a lasting impact on the city of Gadsden. Race relations in Gadsden, Alabama, during the late 19th century, after the Civil War, were deeply influenced by Reconstruction and the rise of segregation. And African Americans in Gadsden, like elsewhere in the south, sought economic opportunities and political participation. Of course they did. And. And as we know, Reconstruction initially brought some progress in these areas. Very true, as formerly enslaved individuals engaged in their politics and worked to rebuild independent communities, to rebuild churches and schools. But as we know, the end of Reconstruction came in 1877, and it marked a huge turning point. The federal troops were withdrawn and then white dominated local governments implemented policies aimed at disenfranchising black citizens. And systems of segregation, enforced through Jim Crow laws and social customs, limited access to resources, housing, education and economic opportunities for African Americans. Violence, intimidation, including acts perpetrated by groups like the Ku Klux Klan, further suppressed black voices and maintained racial inequalities. And black residents faced constant Threat of violence, including lynchings and intimidation. And the legal system, Jill, the legal system offered little if any protection for them as law enforcement and the court systems were often complicit in upholding white supremacy.
• 24:37
  Speaker A: Is the whole point of the Ku Klux Klan just to be like, we're white, we're cool, let's kill, like, let's keep our power? Is that the whole point of them? I know nothing of the history. I just know there are bunch of racist, violent pricks that are really like, they feed each other's hatred of other cultures and people.
• 25:00
  Speaker B: That's my understanding, yes.
• 25:01
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 25:02
  Speaker B: So it is in 1888, Jill, during this post reconstruction area in Gadsden, Alabama, that our incident takes place.
• 25:12
  Speaker A: Oh, take me to the incident.
• 25:16
  Speaker B: On November 7, 1888, Chief of Police Cunningham, accompanied by Police Officer Kinney, entered a cabin in a black neighborhood in Gadsden, Alabama to arrest a man who had been charged with gambling. Officer Kinney forced open the front door while Chief Cunningham went around to the back of the residence. Officer Kinney barged through the door and was met by a man with a gun who's later identified as 25 year old Charlie Johnson.
• 25:53
  Speaker A: 25. That's 25 super young.
• 25:57
  Speaker B: According to the Times Democrat out of New Orleans. December 7, 1889, Officer Kinney realized that the man he was looking for to arrest was not in the cabin. Kinney stated to Johnson that he was not after him and treated towards the door. That is a direct quote from the paper.
• 26:20
  Speaker A: So he was like, my bad, it's not you. I'm leaving.
• 26:23
  Speaker B: You are not the man I'm looking for. I'm going to leave the premises. According to the newspaper, it was then that Charlie Johnson allegedly found fired at Kenny, killing him.
• 26:39
  Speaker A: What?
• 26:39
  Speaker B: Johnson then fled the cabin, escaping Gadsden and escaping authorities and living on the lam for 10 months.
• 26:48
  Speaker A: What in the fuck?
• 26:51
  Speaker B: There's so many questions, right?
• 26:53
  Speaker A: I have so many questions because I don't know how true it is that the officer was like, my bad, sorry about that, I'm leaving.
• 27:04
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:04
  Speaker A: I think if the paper reported that he was like shot in the back or something, would have been more evidence based. But for them to be like, hey, I'm going. And to report something like that, there's no way you could have known that.
• 27:20
  Speaker B: Mm, mm. Let's keep going, shall we?
• 27:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know it sounds a little sus, but you know that reporting back in the day is like scrolling through Facebook now. You know what I mean?
• 27:33
  Speaker B: That's true. The newspapers reported on anything sensational and fact checkers were not a thing.
• 27:43
  Speaker A: And anything not sensational, they'll be like. Mrs. Peach was over at Mrs. Lawson's house today. And you're like, great.
• 27:50
  Speaker B: Well, I think the other important thing is that the newspapers are largely white newspapers. True. Where these quote unquote facts are coming from.
• 28:01
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:01
  Speaker B: So one wonders. Yeah, right.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Fair. In fair terms during this time that. How. How can we possibly know this? And here's a black man getting.
• 28:12
  Speaker B: Right.
• 28:13
  Speaker A: Yeah, right.
• 28:15
  Speaker B: Okay, so he escapes Gadsden and he's on the lam for 10 months.
• 28:20
  Speaker A: It's a long time to be on the lam.
• 28:22
  Speaker B: It is ten months later, on September 27, 1889, Charlie Johnson was finally apprehended by Detective B.J. irwin in Knoxville, Tennessee. Detective Irwin had been tracking Johnson in Tennessee for several weeks. He finally located him at a railroad camp near Felico, Tennessee. Detective Irwin did some fancy detectiving.
• 28:50
  Speaker A: What'd he do?
• 28:51
  Speaker B: It's very impressive actually. He dressed and disguised. He dressed in a, quote, rough suit as if he were a railroad worker. And he actually got a job working on the railroad tracks.
• 29:06
  Speaker A: Wow. He went undercover.
• 29:09
  Speaker B: He sure did, because that's where Johnson was working. So he disguised himself as a laborer and he was working on the tracks and, and he was able to buddy up to Johnson during this time.
• 29:21
  Speaker A: Gotcha.
• 29:22
  Speaker B: Uh huh. And he formed a kind of acquaintance. So they got to talking a lot. And according to Irwin, again, according to this white detective, during their conversations, Johnson confidentially admitted to murdering Officer Kenny in Gadsden. Soon after, Irwin arrested Johnson and personally delivered him to authorities in Gadon. What do you think about his confession?
• 29:52
  Speaker A: I think, I mean, sus. Right, it's sus.
• 30:00
  Speaker B: Like. Yeah, he told me, he, he whispered to me, he said, he said he did it.
• 30:05
  Speaker A: He went through a lot of work. Like Detective Irwin went through a. A lot of work to, to get close to this guy. Yeah, but again, there's really no proof. Like. Detective, can I have some evidence about like, like guns, like ballistics. Give me something.
• 30:24
  Speaker B: Well, there's another thing you need to know. Detective Irwin received a hefty sum of reward money for capturing Johnson.
• 30:33
  Speaker A: That's his job though, dude. Like, he's doing his job and then he gets like a bonus that doesn't. That seems, that seems more sus.
• 30:40
  Speaker B: Jill. $600. Which today. Over $20,000 in today's money for capturing and delivering Johnson.
• 30:50
  Speaker A: For doing your job. So.
• 30:53
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think that also frames in another way, don't you?
• 30:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. It's like a Jailhouse confession. Like, so the person that receives the confession that goes to court and says it gets, like some kind of perk from it, like a reduced sentence or whatever, right?
• 31:10
  Speaker B: So word gets to Gadsden, right? The people hear the news. Now they're pissed because this is the guy who killed Officer Kenny.
• 31:19
  Speaker A: This is the guy they suspect of killing Officer Kenny.
• 31:23
  Speaker B: Yes, yes. Allegedly black. And there's a black man.
• 31:26
  Speaker A: There's a strong KKK presence in the area, as.
• 31:30
  Speaker B: You got it. You got it.
• 31:32
  Speaker A: So the people are spicy.
• 31:34
  Speaker B: The people of Gadsden hear the news and that Charlie Johnson has been arrested and is coming to Gadsden. And there is talk of a mob lynching.
• 31:47
  Speaker A: There is. There are fires, torches. People are gathering in the town square. They be a talking. And they're like.
• 31:56
  Speaker B: But officers. Officers really don't like the mob to get involved. And so they sneak Johnson in to the Etowah County Jail at night before the mob could form to steal him away and murder him. Okay? So they kept him safe. They sneaked him in at night. Now he's in downtown Gadsden because that is the county seat, and that's where the Etowa County Jail is. And as it happens, Jill, the circuit court was in session. Isn't that a happy coincidence? So they're already there. They're already working. They're already hearing murder cases.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: And.
• 32:33
  Speaker B: And this meant that legal proceedings could begin right away. We can start this immediately, and justice can be delivered swiftly by the letter of the law.
• 32:42
  Speaker A: And you don't have to worry about the mobs as much.
• 32:45
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 32:46
  Speaker A: Get it going. We can get it going, right?
• 32:48
  Speaker B: So the mob is like, okay, things are going to happen. We don't. So that kind of cooled the mob down, you know, because they're like, all.
• 32:54
  Speaker A: Right, they're still interested.
• 32:56
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, they are way interested. But they're like, okay, we don't have to step up right now because they.
• 33:01
  Speaker A: Snuffed out their torches.
• 33:02
  Speaker B: Right, okay.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: Brought their pick force back to their houses.
• 33:06
  Speaker B: Okay, Right. Still, Johnson was guarded by six officers for his safety in the courthouse. So they are doing everything to protect this man from the mob breaking in.
• 33:16
  Speaker A: Really commendable, because a lot of times, especially in Jim Crow south, like the. The police. Explicit. Yeah. So I'm really impressed with the police officers of Gadsden.
• 33:27
  Speaker B: Not only that, but then you have these curious onlookers who want to come see. See the prisoner. They wanted to, quote, take a look at the prisoner, and they were all refused. They're like, no, this Is not a zoo weird? Well, yeah, it is weird, but I can see how, like, twisted MFers before TV and Facebook would, like, want to go see the person who, you know, I don't know who allegedly did this crime.
• 33:56
  Speaker A: I think that's a little sus too, too. Because if, if, if the. If the jail or the courts favored with him, they want to be able to identify him so they can get the mob.
• 34:07
  Speaker B: Oh, well, they were all turned away. So these six guards were always on Johnson. They didn't let anyone come to see him out of curiosity.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: Good for them.
• 34:16
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker A: Impressive.
• 34:17
  Speaker B: Now, Johnson was interviewed, and when interviewed, he refused to say anything, which is really smart.
• 34:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, he did say that. Note, people note, if a cop asks you anything, you don't have to answer that question. You can get an attorney. You have the right to remain silent.
• 34:35
  Speaker B: Because always better to say nothing you.
• 34:38
  Speaker A: Say can and will be used against you. They don't just say that shit for them. They're like letting you know, hey, dumbass, don't tell me anything because I'm going to use it. I'm going to use it.
• 34:48
  Speaker B: When interviewed, the only thing that Johnson said was that he was innocent. He stated that he was in the house when Officer Kinney entered it, but he did not fire the fatal shot. But he saw someone else do the killing. That's what he said. He's like, I was there, but who was it? But I was with someone else and someone else did it. I didn't do it.
• 35:17
  Speaker A: But who was the someone else? You're not in a house with a stranger.
• 35:22
  Speaker B: Didn't say. When arrested, Johnson was in possession of two pistols, which he kept in a box at the head of his bed. So when Irwin arrested him in Tennessee, working on the railroads, he happened to be in possession of two pistols.
• 35:38
  Speaker A: I mean, that's not unusual today. It's not unusual. Then you know what I mean.
• 35:43
  Speaker B: His case went to trial, and the trial caused a great deal of excitement in Gadsden. Large crowds packed into the courtroom.
• 35:54
  Speaker A: Got nothing to do in Gadsden.
• 35:56
  Speaker B: Here we go again. In a statement, Charlie says the same thing. He said another black man. His name was Tom Roberts.
• 36:02
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 36:02
  Speaker B: He was there. That's incredible. He was there in the cabin, too. He did the shooting. He killed Officer Kinney. And interestingly, there were testimonies of other witnesses that seemed to corroborate this claim that Tom Roberts was there and he did kill Officer Kinney. And it wasn't Charlie Johnson that was responsible for the murder.
• 36:24
  Speaker A: Well, Detective Irwin. Go, buddy. Up To. To Tom Johnson or Tom.
• 36:30
  Speaker B: Tom Roberts. His trial lasted three days, and the jury took almost no time at all to determine his fate. Arguments closed at 10pm on October 10, and he was declared guilty by the jury the very next morning and condemned to suffer the death penalty.
• 36:53
  Speaker A: This is a very speedy trial. Very speedy, very speedy. Especially for having evidence that really could suggest that this man was innocent.
• 37:05
  Speaker B: Exactly. Charlie Johnson was hanged in a private execution in accordance with Alabama law at the Etoa County Jail in Gadsden on December 6, 1889, about two months after he was condemned to death. For two months he sat in jail on death row.
• 37:24
  Speaker A: Well, I'm. I mean, I don't know about the judicial system in Gadsden, but the police. Police force certainly is commendable to humanize Charlie Johnson and to make this not like a mob lynching, but to protect his right to a trial, to protect his privacy, to die with as much dignity as he can. I'm really, really impressed with that.
• 37:47
  Speaker B: Right. But still, you might be thinking, was justice served, right?
• 37:51
  Speaker A: I mean, how can't you be thinking that?
• 37:53
  Speaker B: Was it a fair trial? Was Charlie Johnson murdered for a crime he didn't commit because the town of Gadsden was thirsty for revenge for whomever killed Officer Kinney?
• 38:07
  Speaker A: Well, you know, I'm a Judge Judy lawyer.
• 38:09
  Speaker B: Uh huh.
• 38:10
  Speaker A: And I think it depends on whether or not he had good representation. Oh, but just saying. But I do think that.
• 38:25
  Speaker B: I mean, he probably did not have good representation, I'll tell you right now.
• 38:29
  Speaker A: Well, then I feel like this may have not been a good trial. And the Innocence Project today would have stepped in and been like, hey, excuse me, guys.
• 38:38
  Speaker B: Yeah, right. It's almost like his fate is kind of a symptom. A symptom of the racist social, economic and political systems that were in place throughout the south and the rest of the country at the end of the 19th century.
• 38:53
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 38:54
  Speaker B: That's what I was thinking.
• 38:55
  Speaker A: That's what you were thinking, because that's the thing.
• 38:59
  Speaker B: But then, plot twist. Charlie Johnson gives a lengthy confession during those two months that he's sitting in jail awaiting his death.
• 39:12
  Speaker A: Shut up.
• 39:13
  Speaker B: Huh? Not only that, he. He composes this lengthy confession that is written down and published into a pamphlet.
• 39:26
  Speaker A: What? Published into a.
• 39:29
  Speaker B: So he is dictating his confession to someone who's writing it down with the purpose of publishing it as a pamphlet, and he's okay with this? In his confession, Charlie Johnson not only states that his sentencing was just. And he admits to murdering Kinney, but he also details the history of his life and crimes. And what I have here is a summary of the biography of Charlie Johnson as was published in his own confession by his own words.
• 40:16
  Speaker A: I am intrigued this would be going so viral right now. I want all the tea. Shut up. I'm sorry, Officer Kinney, tell me everything about this. I mean, this guy's kind of crazy. Who does that? Wait, can I ask you a question first? Oh, wait, no. I'll save it till the end. I'll save it to the end. I'll save it till the end.
• 40:32
  Speaker B: All right.
• 40:33
  Speaker A: Save it to the end.
• 40:33
  Speaker B: Okay. So remember, all this comes from him as published in the newspapers and in this pamphlet of his lengthy confession. Okay? Charlie Johnson was born in Georgia in 1864. He lived with his parents, and he ran away from home at the age of 12. But his brothers found him and brought him back. And he.
• 40:56
  Speaker A: He.
• 40:56
  Speaker B: He had to stay at home until he was 15, and then he was able to leave the house. So from the beginning, he was trying to get away from home. He called himself a bad boy. His words, quote, unquote. He was a bad boy who spent his time trying to wreck trains and break glass bottles on telegraph poles.
• 41:21
  Speaker A: What?
• 41:22
  Speaker B: That's what he spent his time doing as a child.
• 41:25
  Speaker A: Is that a thing? What do you mean? Wreck trains?
• 41:28
  Speaker B: Wreck trains. Okay. So there was thing called rocking trains that boys did, and they would.
• 41:34
  Speaker A: Is it like cow tipping?
• 41:36
  Speaker B: No. No, it's not. Trains are much too heavy to tip. They would take rocks and throw rocks at the windows of passenger trains as they drove through town.
• 41:46
  Speaker A: What is wrong with you?
• 41:48
  Speaker B: So Charlie was a child and he was throwing rocks at the windows of a passenger train, and he crushed the skull of an old man. And he died. He died before the train reached the next station. Charlie ran away and avoided capture by hiding out in the woods for several weeks as a child. Authorities never found out that it was him who was responsible for the man's death.
• 42:15
  Speaker A: It reminds me of kids nowadays that are dropping rocks from the interstate.
• 42:20
  Speaker B: Yes, exactly. Bad dude.
• 42:24
  Speaker A: I mean, fucking serial killer type dude. Like, what are you doing?
• 42:28
  Speaker B: Here's another thing. His mama. His mama would send him. Would send him into town to sell chickens and produce for money. He said that he used to sell for a lot more and then keep half for himself and give her only half of the money. And then he would spend it on whiskey and girls.
• 42:54
  Speaker A: How old was he? Jesus.
• 42:55
  Speaker B: He was. He was living at home. So he was. He was under 15. Because he left home at the age of 15.
• 43:00
  Speaker A: I honestly can't talk. I was smoking, drinking at 13. I don't know why I sounded so self. Right? Like, how old was he? My God. No, I get you, Charlie. I get you.
• 43:09
  Speaker B: Do you believe that he was scamming his own mama?
• 43:12
  Speaker A: That I don't agree with.
• 43:13
  Speaker B: That's. How do you do that?
• 43:15
  Speaker A: No, especially because, you know, she's working so hard.
• 43:18
  Speaker B: He started. He started gambling when he was 14. And when he left home at the age of 15, he was able to make a living gambling, which was illegal, of course. He committed his first robbery at the age of 17.
• 43:33
  Speaker A: See, he doesn't need to rob if he was that good at gambling.
• 43:36
  Speaker B: True. He was working in the fields near the home of a well to do man, and Johnson watched him. And he learned that this rich man kept his money in a trunk in his bedroom. So he was probably looking in the windows and like, diabolical, this guy. One day when the rich man saddled up his horse and rode off, Charlie broke into his house through a window and stole $367 and a pistol. That's over $9,000 in today's money. That is a big haul.
• 44:10
  Speaker A: That's a lot of money.
• 44:11
  Speaker B: But he was caught by authorities and sentenced to four years in the Georgia penitentiary.
• 44:16
  Speaker A: Oh, good. I'm glad that there was a justice department for that.
• 44:19
  Speaker B: Well, he only lasted six months in a penitentiary before Johnson attacked a guard, knocking him senseless, and escaped. On the way out, he was chased by bloodhounds and he killed two bloodhounds with an axe.
• 44:37
  Speaker A: Wow. What? No, you don't. You don't do that. You don't kill dogs.
• 44:43
  Speaker B: He ran eight miles and. And hid out in a barn before finally riding out on a mule named Bell. He stole the mule named Bell. During this time, he was in pursuit by penitentiary guards because they were looking for him. He was stopped on the road by one of these guards, but Johnson escaped by hitting him in the head with a pickaxe.
• 45:07
  Speaker A: What the.
• 45:09
  Speaker B: And killed the guard and left his body on the road.
• 45:11
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 45:12
  Speaker B: It's a bad dude.
• 45:14
  Speaker A: This is a bad dude.
• 45:16
  Speaker B: Authorities heightened the search for him, and Johnson was pursued by eight to ten men and several bloodhounds. He rode the mule for eight miles and then cut its throat with a razor.
• 45:27
  Speaker A: My. Why? Why?
• 45:29
  Speaker B: And left the animal on the road to die. Because he's a bad mfer.
• 45:33
  Speaker A: But, like, why?
• 45:34
  Speaker B: Like, I know there's no reason he could have left it on a farm somewhere.
• 45:38
  Speaker A: Not even that. Like, you're being chased. You're going to take time With a little itty bitty razor hurt the baby mule. That took you so far?
• 45:46
  Speaker B: I think it was a big razor. Razors were big back then. Don't you remember the big cartoons? How they had the big razors and they take the.
• 45:53
  Speaker A: Why you didn't use the big razor.
• 45:56
  Speaker B: They were all big. They didn't have the safety razors.
• 45:59
  Speaker A: Oh, they didn't have the bic.
• 46:00
  Speaker B: No, they didn't have. They didn't have the. They didn't have. No relo.
• 46:04
  Speaker A: They didn't have the moisture seal.
• 46:08
  Speaker B: No. Those are nice, though.
• 46:10
  Speaker A: Those are nice.
• 46:10
  Speaker B: This is so nice. Okay, so, yeah, so he kills the mule and leaves it on the road. So of course he's in. He's still being chased by the guards from the penitentiary and the local authorities who are looking for this murderer who.
• 46:25
  Speaker A: He doesn't even have to murder. Like, this is how. Like, there's murder for necessity and then there's murder for joy. He didn't have to kill that bell.
• 46:36
  Speaker B: No.
• 46:36
  Speaker A: You see what I'm saying?
• 46:37
  Speaker B: This is.
• 46:37
  Speaker A: This is next level.
• 46:39
  Speaker B: He was on the run for three months in a constant state of anxiety. These are his words. In a constant state of anxiety without being caught. And you know where he slept. So you know how railroad bridges are really high up off the ground, and a lot of times, like, they. They go over big rocks and things. He would climb up and sleep on the trestles on the under part of the bridge, 80ft up off the ground so that the blood hounds couldn't sniff him out.
• 47:10
  Speaker A: Okay. That, to me, is a sign of someone that actually does not know, like, anxiety the way we know it. Like, you don't sleep on a trestle if you're like.
• 47:22
  Speaker B: Well, he certainly wasn't afraid of heights. Well, let's say this. He was more afraid of being caught than he was of heights.
• 47:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that that's indicative of a serial killer. Like, it's the excitement of trying to get away. It was like, you know what I mean? As opposed to, like, there is absolutely no way that I would do that.
• 47:41
  Speaker B: So the dogs couldn't get to him because he was sleeping basically in the air, like in the sky right under these big railroad bridges. But there were posses who were out looking for him. And so the bloodhounds would get him so far towards where he was. But then, of course, the bloodhounds couldn't get up to the underside of the railroad bridge.
• 47:59
  Speaker A: But couldn't they sniff up the. Like.
• 48:02
  Speaker B: Well, there was a guy that. There was a guy who had climbed up and was just about to sound the alarm. He. He found him and he saw him. Johnson pushed him and the man fell 60ft onto the rocks and died instantly. And he watched as the other men saw him and they just assumed that he had tripped and fallen. They had no clue that he was hiding right there.
• 48:22
  Speaker A: Oh my Lord.
• 48:25
  Speaker B: Finally, finally he was captured and carried back to the convict camps and in Georgia. But he escaped the camps and was captured again and brought to the Georgia Penitentiary where he stayed for one year. So he's serving one year in the Georgia Penitentiary.
• 48:39
  Speaker A: All that killing.
• 48:42
  Speaker B: Then he escaped again from the penitentiary. This time he cut his way through the roof of a building and jumped 30ft from the roof to the ground.
• 48:53
  Speaker A: Do you know how much I would be injured if I jumped 30ft?
• 48:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, he would not survive that.
• 48:59
  Speaker A: Like I, I would let probably land on my head. I would probably like break both legs in an arm.
• 49:05
  Speaker B: He said that he did sustain minor injuries from the 30 foot fall from the roof. But still he was able, able to overcome a guard by beating him in the head with a rock. Another person who died of his injuries at the hand of this man.
• 49:23
  Speaker A: That's a lot of energy to kill someone with a rock. Especially someone who is coming after you.
• 49:28
  Speaker B: Oh, again, Johnson was on the run. He broke into a house. Get this, get this. He was on the run. So he broke into a house, which you have to do when you're on the run. Right, because you don't have any resources. A bulldog was in the house. He killed it. He killed the bulldog. And then he stole a fine suit of clothes and a hat so that he could pass as someone who wasn't a convict. And in his own words, he quote, actuated by that spirit of devilment which had carried me so far in the way of sin, threw a box of rough on rats into the well with the intention of wiping out the whole ranch.
• 50:21
  Speaker A: So he put rat poison in the well?
• 50:24
  Speaker B: Yes. He basically says the devil made him do it. The spirit of devilment that led him to sin caused him. Nobody was home. So he just throws rat poison into the family well.
• 50:38
  Speaker A: Oh my God.
• 50:39
  Speaker B: Later he found out that one of the members of the family did die from poisoning because of the well water.
• 50:48
  Speaker A: Unreal.
• 50:50
  Speaker B: Then he states, this is a quote. I had a girl in the neighborhood and went to see her that night. The same night he poisons the well because now he's got a suit. He goes to court his girl. When he got there, he found out that another guy named Tom Grosi Was courting her. Quote, I called him out, cut his throat with a razor, carried his body to a creek nearby, threw it in, went back to the house, told the girl he had gone home and remained with her and courted her until near morning.
• 51:27
  Speaker A: We know what he means by courted.
• 51:28
  Speaker B: We do know what he means by courting her.
• 51:33
  Speaker A: Gross.
• 51:34
  Speaker B: From there, he went to Big Shanty. Now, the name of that town is Kennesaw, Georgia. Then it was known as Big Shanty.
• 51:41
  Speaker A: They should have left it as Big Shanty. That's. That's a cool name.
• 51:44
  Speaker B: I think there are racist connotations, really. Big Shanty. Shanty towns were usually like, I did not know.
• 51:53
  Speaker A: I'm learning a lot.
• 51:54
  Speaker B: Communities of very poor housing for black people. So from there, he went to Big Shanty, now Kennesaw, Georgia, which, where he climbed into a baggage car on a high speed train and found himself in Dalton, Georgia, 74 miles away from there. Jill. He travels through Chattanooga and other Tennessee towns and finds himself in Jellicoe, Tennessee, on the Kentucky state line, 142 miles from where he made his escape. So he's getting some distance between him and the guards that are looking for him. Yeah, he got a job, but worked only one week before he learned that detectives were hot in his trail, even there in Kentucky. And so he kept running into Kentucky and ended up in Cincinnati, Ohio. And that's where he started a counterfeit money operation.
• 52:43
  Speaker A: Jesus.
• 52:45
  Speaker B: He made two silver dollar molds and then bought a metal dipper from a hardware store and melted it down and used the metal to make $9 worth of counterfeit coins. And he kept up this counterfeit operation whenever he needed money. That's pretty enterprising.
• 53:05
  Speaker A: I mean, he should have been doing that from the beginning. Instead of robbing people and cutting up dogs and shit, just melt down some metal.
• 53:13
  Speaker B: Johnson lived on the run, moving from city to city and crossing state lines, hopping on railroad cars, making money through counterfeiting, gambling, and working on the railroad when he could. In Oliver Springs, he worked for the railroad for four months and lived with a woman who he claimed was his wife, but wasn't. Then in March 1887, he traveled back to Georgia and took up a gambling operation with a partner. The two of them came to Gadsden, Alabama, and they gambled daily with both white and black people. Johnston won a lot of money playing poker. I would sometimes get broke, but there were white people here who would back me in any game. And they would go my halves and furnish me money whenever I wanted it. So I guess the white gamblers and Gadsden were friends of his because they backed him.
• 54:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy.
• 54:06
  Speaker B: Then he left Alabama, ran to Georgia, Kentucky, Ohio, and then back to Kentucky. He successfully won a lot of money shooting craps in Louisville and, quote, had a gay time with the girls wherever I went. Then he made his. This guy. What?
• 54:23
  Speaker A: This guy is just appalling. And he had to be like, I made a gay time with the girls.
• 54:30
  Speaker B: Yeah, right. Oh, this is his confession. And he's bragging about what a ladies man he is.
• 54:36
  Speaker A: He's gross.
• 54:37
  Speaker B: In the same confession that he's talking about these brutal killings and the ladies loved him. Ew. Then he made his way back to Gadsden, Alabama a second time, where he gambled regularly and made money from all the boys he played with. He was stealing watermelons one day near Gadsden when a man saw him and shot at him. But he got away with a watermelon under one arm. Again, he's like bragging about it. He did a, quote, great deal of mischief in the city of Gadsden. He broke into a depot and stole a great sum of money and a silver watch. So in his confession, Charlie Johnson admits to looting Tolston store in Gadsden. But. But he set the record straight and he said the other stores that were looted, he didn't do that. That was someone else. Also, he set the record straight about murders. There were murders of a woman and two men committed at, quote, the tunnels in Gadsden, and the authorities wanted to pin those on him. According to him, he says it's not true. Quote, I only killed one woman and one man out there and would not have done that if the woman had stopped, stuck to me as she said she would.
• 55:51
  Speaker A: Wow. What a gross man.
• 55:55
  Speaker B: Finally, his confession gets to the crime for which he was going to be put to death for the murder of Officer Kinney. In his published confession, Johnson states that he was staying at the house in Gadsden when Kinney and Chief Cunningham arrived there around 8am in the morning. He said he was getting dressed when Kinney came to the door. He said that Kinney broke in through the front door but did not announce his business. When he came in, Johnson was on the other side of the room and Kenny advanced towards him without stating what he wanted. Johnson said he picked up his gun and told Kenny for the third time to back away. He said Kenny did not say anything. Johnson describes Kenny moving towards him and him shooting Kenny in self defense.
• 56:54
  Speaker A: Even if he was moving towards him. That's not self defense.
• 56:59
  Speaker B: He grabbed his pants and ran because he was in the process of getting dressed, escaping Chief Cunningham and escaping into the mountains with all of Gadsden in pursuit. For the next several months, he evaded capture by staying on the move until he was ultimately captured in Knoxville by Detective Irwin. Johnson said that he would have initially pled guilty, but he was afraid of the mob, and he actually thanked the sisters and brothers, both black and white, who showed him kindness. He ends his confession by discussing his early life. My early life was spent among evil associates. When I was five or six years old, I used to go down into the woods and watch the men, both white and black, gamble. And my main desire was to become a gambler. I was a very bad boy and was up to all kinds of devilment. My father and mother were good people and tried to raise me right, but the devil was in me from the start, and he has brought me to this sad end.
• 58:13
  Speaker A: Do you think that how much of this confession, if anything, is legit?
• 58:21
  Speaker B: That's a good question. I thought that, too. But the other thing you need to know is, aside from the written confession right before he died, you know how they ask if you have any last words?
• 58:33
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 58:34
  Speaker B: He talked to the people there for 10 minutes about his life. So it wasn't just like, you know, he dictated this to someone and then it was published. And you can question whether or not the person dictating it embellished.
• 58:49
  Speaker A: What do you think the point is of writing out your entire life so story of horrible things before being put to death?
• 58:59
  Speaker B: Well, he does in. At the end of his confession, he asks for God's forgiveness, and he instructs the other people not to follow his vagabond ways that included whiskey, gambling, and bad women.
• 59:13
  Speaker A: So I don't think it had anything to do with the women, sir. Don't. Don't bring us into this nonsense.
• 59:20
  Speaker B: I mean, it's a really good question if you. If you believe. All right, let me ask you this question intuitively. Do you believe that this written confession is legit, or do you think that the person transcribing it kind of embellished and. And, like, made it more sensational than it really was? That's my first question.
• 59:42
  Speaker A: I think both things can be true.
• 59:46
  Speaker B: I think it's legit even if it was embellished. I think it's based in fact.
• 59:52
  Speaker A: Agreed.
• 59:54
  Speaker B: Do you think our voiceless is Charlie Johnson? Do you think he's coming through wanting a voice?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker A: I do.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker B: I do, too. And this is one of those situations where I don't like the person coming through for a voice. But that. To answer your question, Jill, that's the point of the 10 minute confession. He wanted his story told. He's an egomaniac, he's a sociopath, he's a narcissist, all of those things.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker B: He wants to be heard. And it seems like some of the things in here, it's like he's bragging a hundred percent. He's bragging. Even in this confession where he's like, don't follow my ways. And you know what do you think he's haunting the site of the old Atoa jail where he was hanged? Because that's how I found him, by going online and being like, you know, what are the haunts? And people are like, hey, Charlie Johnson is still haunting Gadsden where he was hanged.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker A: I do.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker B: I do, too. I think he's still hanging around.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker A: I think he's pissed people forgot about him. He's like. He's like, I'm one bad y' all ain't talking about anymore. And it's like. And, you know.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker B: And our hits bring that out. Your hit of that Snoop Dogg song about being pretty much a quote unquote gangsta, about the women and the. And the liquor.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker A: He's not a gangster. He's just a liquor lovin' woman. Lovin man in the song. It's a good song.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker B: It's a good song. But it's also. It's also like Snoop Dogg is like.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker A: A Persona, hip hop royalty.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker B: I mean, of all the rap songs that he could have come through as, he sees himself as like the archetype of that.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. 100%.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker B: That he sees himself in the archetype of a gangsta.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker A: Someone outside the law saying gangsta.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker B: You know what I mean? But that's how he comes through to me.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker B: Like someone in this. I know. I know what you're saying. And I'm not trying to sound racist right now, and I'm really not. That's just the. The way he's presenting, like, to me.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker A: I think he's presenting. And the archetype that is described in the song, like, I have zero fox to do, but for what? We don't love them hoes, we're gonna smoke an ounce. Jeez. Up breeze up.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker B: I mean, it's a great song. It's a pit. It's actually a really important song in terms of musical history. I mean, it's. And Snoop Dogg, like you said, it's an image. It's. It's this, you know. Yeah. And it is a bad boy image. Right? It's counterculture.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. It is a bad boy image. I don't give a fuck. What's interesting is that Snoop Dogg and Martha Stewart are, like, best friends right now.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker B: I know. I love that.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker A: It makes me sad.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker B: I love that. Yeah. So please understand the way I'm using the gangsta.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker A: I know, I know.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker B: I'm not using it.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker A: When we talk about gangsters from Chicago, we say gangsters. When we talk about gangsters, we should just say gangsters and not gangsters. You see what I'm saying?
• 1:03:23
  Speaker B: I see what you're saying. All right. That might be a little racist on my part. Okay. Other hits. Unfriendly dogs, Guard dogs, Dogs pursuing us. Billy Ray, Bulldog.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker A: I think dogs are pissed off. I think dogs are pissed off.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker B: This man killed so many dogs. He killed bloodhounds. He killed the bulldog. And how about the bulldog that I picked up by.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker A: That's a great hit.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker B: That's like my one hit.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker A: Being afraid of the dogs. He was killing dogs because dogs were chasing him. We felt like we were being chased by the dog out of the cemetery. Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker B: And what about your comment about sound bouncing off the hills and the hills?
• 1:04:01
  Speaker A: I do not know.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker B: He ran into the hills, into the mountains to escape, number one. And number two, when you said sound bounces off the hills, it made me think we need to be quiet because we don't want to be heard because we're. We're hiding.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker B: So it all makes sense. I bet that's something. He was thinking like, you have to be quiet when you're hiding out in the hills and in the mountains. Because sound echoes.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker A: Yes. Yes.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker B: Okay, let's talk about the Exorcist.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker B: It occurs to me that the devil possesses Regan, the character in the movie. She says so.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker A: She says so she says that she is being possessed by the devil. That's like saying that she's being possessed by Napoleon Boulevard. That's what. And.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker B: And you have in his confession Charlie Johnson basically saying the same thing, that he was possessed by the devil throughout his childhood.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker A: He says, I believe Reagan, and I do not believe Charlie Johnson.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker B: And here's the Bohemian Rhapsody part that really blows my mind.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker B: Aside from the. The lyrics, I'm just a poor boy, nobody likes me. He's just a poor boy from a poor family, which he was Charlie Johnson. Right. It starts, mama just killed a man, put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he's dead. Mama, life had just begun but now I've gone and thrown it all away Mama, didn't mean to make you cry if I'm not back again this time tomorrow Carry on as if nothing really matters it's too late My time has come Send shivers down my spine Bodies aching all the time Goodbye, everybody I've got to go I've got to leave you all behind and face the truth Mama, I don't want to die Sometimes I'd wish I'd never been born at all yeah.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker A: Holy. I thought that that song was about suicide. That song is about an execution.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker B: Huh.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker A: I had no clue.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker B: Huh.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker A: Great song.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker B: Beezlebub has a devil put aside for me for me, for me Jill, this is. This is so close to the confession, the lyrics. I am dying right now. I cannot believe. You are amazing. That is incredible. I don't even know what to say. Yeah, he was 100% coming through. Now, I don't like this guy, and I don't want to give him a voice except to say he deserved what he got and what a. What a terrible person. I mean, and I'll say this. We had questions about whether or not, like, the investigation was fair, whether or not the trial was fair. It doesn't even matter. Dude got what was coming to him. Thank goodness he couldn't hurt or kill any more innocent people or animals.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker A: Thoughts? Yeah, thoughts. Well, I do believe in the due process. However, I would say that this is an intervention. That God was like, no, you know what I mean? Like, this guy's like, I don't know. I don't like, man. I don't like thinking of all the destruction, just like, this wave of killing. And it's really hard to be like, damn, like, I hope he gets a fair trial. I don't give a fuck about, like, now at this point, it's like, I don't thank fucking God. And I do think that. I do think that it was hyperbolic in the writing of his story. However, I do think those bad things he did, he did in just, like, the way he would breathe. Like, I don't think he thought that. These are sensational things. I think that this was a way of life for him. Just murdering and. And gambling and drinking and just not giving a fuck.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker B: And he had good parents. He had a mother and a father who tried to. To raise him right. And after he was executed, his brother took his body back to Georgia, near Big Shanty, where he was buried, near family.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker A: I feel bad because I didn't know Big or Shanty. Had any kind of negative connotation.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker B: As.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker A: As I learned earlier this week about the shirt. The. The shirt that Jenny was telling us about. That was a racial thing, too.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker B: The dago tea.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker A: Yeah. I had no clue.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker B: We're being so schooled. And I know I shouldn't say gangsta, but I think our listeners understand where I'm coming from. Let's end it there.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker A: Please don't cancel us. She doesn't know what she does.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker B: Okay, Jill, where can the people find us?
• 1:09:18
  Speaker A: Well, I want to say thank you for tuning in. And if you're loving Common Mystics, we've got more for you. Please check out our Patreon. For what? Jennifer, what do you get when you check on Patreon?
• 1:09:30
  Speaker B: You get monthlies at tier four, mystical mentorship with us, monthly zoom calls. At tier three, you get monthly educational topics. This month's is how to meet and work with your spirit guides. Very cool stuff. And at tier two, more Mystics, you get the detours. Now, Jill, for our detours, yes, I would like to talk about the different hauntings in Gadsden because this place is so freaking old. You've got the water, you've got the. The land itself. You've got the old, old history. You. You have the Civil War, and then you have all of the. The racial strife. There's so much happening in Gadsden. I want to talk about hauntings.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker A: Okay. Love it, love it, love it. I also want to say, so if you're tier four, you're getting all of that.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker A: You're getting it all. You. You're not just getting one thing. You're getting it all. You're getting more mystics in every way. And we support even just like one time donations. If you guys are like, what, can I spend my money on a good cause? And please know that we will accept it and put your money to help us offset the cost of this podcast. So literally means the world to us because we couldn't do this without you.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker B: Thank you, thank you. Thank you for considering supporting us on Patreon. We need your support to keep going.
• 1:11:02
  Speaker A: Hey. Yes, they should check out our website, commonmystics.net they should connect with us on socials to schedule a reading. So hook us up on our DMs. CommonMyStics. Wherever you're playing on the socials, email us just to say hi, tell us how we're doing@commonmysticsmail.com and if you are.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker B: Interested in taking a class on psychic development, let me know. I just finished my second class and it was insane. Amazing. And I am open to to putting together a class for you if you and some friends would like to get your Spideys on.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker A: Hey, one more thing. Jen and I, you and I, Jennifer and I, yes, us, are really trying to grow this podcast and we've been getting attention from people in different industries, but we have to show them that we can draw an audience. So please, please, please. If not Patreon, if not a one time donation, if not a reading, if not a class, just share the show and tell people how much you like the show. Also leave us a comment on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening because that is going to bring attention to us and that's what we need. We need attention. I need attention.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker B: You are such an attention whore.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker A: That's fair.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker A: What be Norm MacDonald. Celebrate the whore in me.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker B: You can celebrate your own bluntness.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker A: Thank you guys for listening. We love you.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker B: Love you. Bye bye.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker A: This has been a common mystics Media Production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.