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Surviving, Adapting, and the Jingle of the Keys: Sam Mangel Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:04
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
0:07
In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
0:10
fears and nightmares that set yourself free.
0:13
We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
0:20
These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
0:22
Sad. There's some humor, but
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hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something that'll
0:27
help you knock down some of the prisons you built up in your own
0:30
mind. All right, Welcome back,
0:36
nightmare success, Internet listeners.
0:37
This is where you come for what happens when your worst fear
0:39
becomes your reality. How do you adapt, survive,
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overcome, set yourself free? Well, I have a I've got a great
0:47
guest here today and I want to, I want to give a shout out to
0:49
Drew Chapin because he connected Sam and Sam Mangle and myself
0:54
and if anybody's playing the board game at home.
0:57
Drew was a guest tech entrepreneur San Francisco and
1:05
actually he's got one of the top ten listen podcast so you have
1:08
to check that one out. So Drew checked He he he
1:13
connected Sam and I and I was just telling Sam before we got
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on he's doing such great work. If you haven't been watching the
1:20
news, if you any or if you have been watching news, you might
1:24
have seen Sam on quite a few news stations.
1:26
He he got. He got out not too long ago and
1:32
he has started a business where he is, he's giving he's a
1:37
federal prison consultant who's who's doing things that help
1:40
mitigate the process of the the federal criminal justice
1:46
journey. And he's doing such a good job
1:48
with him. He's helping CE OS and doctors
1:51
and politicians and and he's foreign nationals people facing
1:57
their nightmare. And he he's doing an incredible
1:59
job with it. And I'll tell you, it's his
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story, is one of those that everybody's fears. 7:00 in the
2:09
morning, you get a knock on the door and it's a bunch of FBI
2:13
agents with windbreakers on, and they come into your house and
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Sam had no idea what was going on.
2:19
They shout out to his wife that they're arresting him and away
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he goes in the back of the car. He later finds out it had issues
2:27
to do with the insurance company that he had sold years prior.
2:30
And the nightmare began. And Sam ended up supposed to be
2:36
getting sentencing guidelines of about 18 months.
2:38
He got 16 months. And that's why he's become such
2:40
an expert on how in the world does this happen?
2:43
How do you get into this? How do you get out of it?
2:46
And and who can help you with it?
2:48
It's Sam. I can't wait to jump into all
2:51
this. Before we do, I want to
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Auto Plaz Direct. Tell them Brent from Nightmare
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Success sent you. Sam Mangle, welcome.
3:33
Thank you for being here. Thank you.
3:35
Thank you for having me. Sam your your story is one that
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like I said would at the top. I I think that's every citizen's
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nightmare, isn't it? That you are at home and all of
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a sudden your world spins into something that's feels so out of
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control and. It was.
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There's certain things in life that people remember.
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They they say that those who are not just and impacted remember
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their first born. They remember certain monumental
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days or important days in life. Well, one of the days I remember
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is that I think it was April 18th of 2016.
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I have been retired for four years and getting a knock on the
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door of my my house 7:00 in the morning.
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I look outside the window and there were, I don't know, 1517
4:27
men and women in the blue flak jackets, yellow FBI stencil
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carrying shotguns. Man.
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Living in South Florida, I opened up the door.
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I figured, you know, it must be some drug dealer.
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They were looking. For wrong address.
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And I I was, you know, didn't say anything.
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And they said Sam Mangle, yes. Within, I don't know, 2 seconds.
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They grabbed me by the shirt collar, put me up against the
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wall, had me handcuffed anyone else in the house, any firearms.
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I think my wife was in the shower.
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They got her out, put me in the back of the car, drove me to
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West Palm Beach, didn't tell me anything, couldn't tell me
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anything, wouldn't tell me anything.
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I didn't have an attorney. I finally, you know, remember
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the last words to my wife were call an attorney, find someone.
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That was the 1st $2500 that I spent to have an attorney at
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arraignment. And that started at that point
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A2 year nightmare of working my way through the justice system.
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You know, plopping down that half $1,000,000 for the attorney
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who guaranteed Promise me. Don't worry.
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I'll take care of you. This before you're in the bed.
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And I remember him saying to me, don't worry, I'm always
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available. And he handed me a piece of
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paper that had a 5 or 7 numbers on it and then one was, you
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know, his boat, the other was his, you know, his daughter's
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college dorm number. That was on a Friday.
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On a Monday I went to call him and his assistant said that he's
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not in today. Will he call me later?
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Sure, I'll give him the message. Took until Thursday for him to
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call me back. And now I realized that the the
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nightmare, yes, that I was in for it.
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You were in for it. So Sam, let's go back a little
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bit. You know, what did you did you
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grow up in, in that area in Florida.
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Like what was your life like growing up as a kid?
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Mom, Dad, Siblings. Yeah, I mean, I Mom and dad.
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Very, very close. My brother's 15 months younger
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than me. He's a a physician in Atlanta, a
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perfectly adjusted public school education in in Cherry Hill, NJ.
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Graduated, went to my freshman year and part of my sophomore
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year From Where you're from, Wash U in Saint Louis.
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Then I transferred back east to Penn, finished in 85.
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Moved to Hong Kong for about four years to work for a family
6:51
company. Came back.
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What was that like, Hong Kong and what time period was that?
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It was before the turnover. It was a British colony and it
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was one of the best experiences of my life.
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I was there before China opened. I remember going into China for
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the first time, dirt roads, you know, people had the little Mal
7:12
red book that they were giving out.
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So living in the Orient from 85 to 89 full, you will experience
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what I learned, the culture, and I'd done a lot of traveling
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growing up with my parents, but living there on my own, I think
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was probably one of the best experiences of my life.
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And so many things have changed with China.
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I mean I we had a business and it was like 2004 five, six and I
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was I'd go over to Shanghai and and you know we were treated
7:46
like rock stars when we when we arrived you know and and at that
7:50
time there was such a different type of vibe of America, China
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everybody's growing together and and how things have changed in
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the last 15 years that the adversarial approach to where we
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are now to where we were then. Well, when I was there, I
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remember the Chinese and the workers in the factories viewed
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America as as a country paved with gold.
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The roads were paved with gold and everybody was friendly and
8:17
and there wasn't a suspicion. There was a sense of we're going
8:22
to get there at some point. Very hard working
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entrepreneurial spirit and the last time I was there was 1992
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with my son, when my son was six months old.
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We took him there and that's where he learned how to walk.
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But I was. I was have not been there since
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the handover back to the Chinese can.
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You imagine and I've personally I've got a a great grandmother
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who before commies a she she left with a missionary came over
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here to the United States. She thought she was going to
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Manhattan winning New York and she ended up a little further
9:01
from Manhattan, KS and Chetopo. So she she had quite an eye
9:05
opening to the United States. She was an incredible woman, but
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she never saw her family again. So I thought, always thought
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that was interesting. How many people were affected
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by, you know, that whole change over with with China and and how
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many families didn't, you know, see, I'd love to go back and see
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relatives that, you know, what are they doing over there now?
9:26
But that had to be a heck of an experience for you.
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What? How old were you, as in that
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time period? I was probably 23 until I was
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27. OK, what a great time to go.
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Unbelievable. I was single.
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It it was. I was living in the expat
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community. I remember the first time I went
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to China and as I crossed the border at Lo Wu there was a
9:47
McDonald's. The first McDonald's was Chen
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Chen China. And the people had to save weeks
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and weeks to get a hamburger and there were lines around the
9:57
building around the block to get into it and and that's that was
10:01
the the spirit you know of the the the the locals and and in
10:07
the early 80s it it was a completely different non
10:11
confrontational vibe and again as a single guy I loved it.
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Yeah, it had to be a great. So you come back from Hong Kong.
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What what's your next step in in your life journey there?
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Worked for my father's company for a few years and in 2000,
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actually 1998, I was approached by at that point CNA Life
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Insurance. I just got my life license and
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they were getting into what was called viatical settlements.
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Yes, very aware of that. I got a fraternity brother that
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got into that and he was in San Francisco, did really well.
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Right. So terminally ill people, and
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that's not something that really appealed to me.
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I I felt that it was praying on the terminally ill and to me
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that was more like Vulture Capital.
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So I approach the actuaries at CNA and say guys if you can
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underwrite mortality for a a certain period of time, in that
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time I think it was four years or less.
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You can do an extension by, you know, extension risk and go out
11:12
to 8 years, in 10 years and still the same underwriting,
11:16
same discounting procedure, but why not buy policies?
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It's an asset, a fungible asset on individuals that were in
11:23
their 60s and 70s with still somewhat defined mortality.
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Maybe they had heart, cardiac issues, diabetes, things that
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were known to reduce life expense and present value.
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That asset for them and CNA, lovely idea and they said wrong
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with it. So from about 2000 until 2010,
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eleven, I became the largest broker of at that point it's
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called life settlements. We weren't really dealing with
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terminally ill anymore and we were transacting billions of
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dollars for this a year. I was.
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I sold the company in 2011 said to my wife why don't we move
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down to South Florida, why don't we become snowbirds, take a
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couple months off and came down here six months and loved it.
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My children were in college at that point.
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They they were in GW. So I said this is a great
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opportunity. Came down after in month 7 is
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when oh gosh no. It was a couple years later that
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I remember we just moved to a house and getting that knock on
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the door and that's that's when all the fun started.
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Well, so you were you, you would really thought that you had
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accomplished what you were wanting to accomplish in life,
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that you were going into the slow lane.
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I was going to bicycle. I I'm an avid cyclist and I was
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going to cycle the rest of my life every morning right along
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the beach. That was my thing.
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Unbeknownst to me, the only cycling I was going to be doing
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for 21 months was on one of the spin bikes at the camp in Miami,
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which probably was also my job. That's.
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That's probably, but you know that that's having a good prison
13:07
job doesn't help you eat time, Sam.
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So you get the knock on the door.
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The the world spins out of control.
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You get an attorney, what with your family and your friends
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around what? What's going through your mind
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as you're walking through this? So I always tell people it's
13:33
like the five stages of grief, the 1st is denial.
13:36
Absolutely. This the government's crazy.
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They don't know what they're doing.
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I'm going to fight this. This is this is just absolute
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lunacy First attorney I met who was at my arraignment said to
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me, OK, if you want to retain me, it's $100,000.
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But by the way I'm not licensed in in the Eastern District of
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Pennsylvania. So we have to get another
13:59
attorney up there for me to appear and I said why not just
14:02
get an attorney up there. That was my first interaction
14:06
with criminal defense attorneys after the deny.
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And I remember on my first meeting with the attorney, I
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said to him this is this is crazy.
14:14
This is this is you know we're going to fight this.
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And that's when he said to me, OK, half $1,000,000, one fee,
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I'll get you through through sentencing and then don't worry,
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I'm always here. That's perfect.
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You know, I'm going to do this. It's worth it.
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That was on a Friday check cleared on Saturday.
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I didn't speak to him for six more days, but my natural
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reaction was the first stage of grief.
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This couldn't have happened. It's not possible.
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Not me. And the attorney in my first
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meeting said something used the term Mens Rea.
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Why did I know or have knowledge of what I was doing now?
14:55
My situation was, I'm going to say, might have been different
14:59
from others in that it had happened.
15:02
The statute of limitations was running out two weeks before I
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was arraigned or charged or. That's interesting.
15:09
But I didn't know that they had a sealed indictment for almost
15:12
six months prior to. That OK.
15:16
During when I met the attorney and he showed me the rings and
15:20
and and the amount of information, I said, well
15:23
explain to me where this came from and he said, well did you
15:26
have an appoint a employee and at the time I had 150 employees.
15:31
Did you have an employee named Joe?
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I said sure he was my senior manager of one of the the
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divisions. Well Joe was arrested in 2011
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for a state drug charge in New Jersey.
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Joe made a deal with the the, the prosecutors in New Jersey
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that he could bring a bigger fish to the table, which was me,
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no matter how you look at it, right, wrong or indifferent, it
15:55
was my company, the benefits inured to me and my wife owned
15:59
one of the companies. And when my attorney said, you
16:02
know, if we don't do something quickly or you don't settle
16:05
this, they're going to bring your wife into it.
16:07
Yeah. And that's chapter and verse.
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I mean, that's something that's in the playbook.
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And I said, well she had nothing to do with it.
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She, she, she just owned it in name only.
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She was not an active. But this doesn't matter.
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That's what they're going to do and that's when denial turned to
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anger and frustration. How could they do this?
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And I remember the attorney said you're dealing with the 800 LB
16:30
gorilla, they win 98% of their cases.
16:36
Let me negotiate. This was after my check here and
16:38
we're not at that point. We said let me negotiate the
16:41
best possible plea for you. Don't worry, you're never going
16:44
to serve a day. I promise you words to to live
16:48
by. And he said give me a couple
16:53
months. That was, say, June of 2016.
16:58
It took about a year and a half for the plea to be negotiated.
17:02
Finally, negotiate the plea. Don't worry, great plea.
17:06
You have roughly 12 points on this point chart, which I knew
17:09
nothing about. You're never going to serve a
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day? Did my pre sentence report
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didn't explain anything to me about my pre sentence interview?
17:18
Don't worry, we'll have dinner afterwards.
17:21
And let's talk about that a little bit, Sam, because there's
17:24
a lot of people that listen to this that you know, some people
17:29
know about that pre sentence report and some people don't.
17:33
That's maybe one of the most important things that you have
17:36
in your world, going from that moment when you do that to
17:41
sentencing to your case manager to the probation offices office
17:45
when you get out. What is that?
17:48
That's the Bible. That is your Bible from the day
17:52
of the interview into the day UN supervisor release.
17:55
That document is not only the chances are the only document
18:00
that your judge will ever read about you, but I tell clients
18:04
all the time the judge typically sees you two times.
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First day is your change of plea because usually your arraignment
18:11
is a magistrate, your change of plea and the day of sentencing.
18:15
And the day of sentencing, the judge has five other people
18:17
being sentenced. You're just a number.
18:19
So he reads this this document this. 3 ring binder.
18:23
Right about you. And that tells your life story,
18:27
tells your education, how you grew up, your criminal history,
18:29
criminal you know, your charges. But that document is a direct
18:35
reflection of how the judge sees you, how your case manager in
18:39
prison sees you, how your counselor if you go to a halfway
18:42
house, how supervise your lease that tells you if you're at
18:46
risk. Are you, you know?
18:48
Do you have substance abuse issues?
18:50
What's your family life like? Everything.
18:53
And if you don't help to create the narrative of that document,
18:57
unlike what I did, the fallout can be so vicious and
19:05
problematic not only in terms of sentence length, it could cause
19:09
the judge to see you in such a negative way like myself that
19:13
increases your sentence length it it could potentially decrease
19:17
the amount of non custodial halfway house home confinement
19:20
time you have and how much freedom and liberty you get from
19:23
supervisor lease. And if I can share how mine
19:27
went. Yes, please do.
19:29
Exactly what your guests and viewers should not do.
19:33
So I went into my meeting and my attorney said don't worry, it'll
19:36
be over in 1/2 hour. We'll have dinner and drinks
19:39
afterwards. And during the interview, the
19:42
young lady, who I'm sure was a very nice person, asked me a
19:45
question. One of the questions was about a
19:48
trust that I had and I felt that it wasn't her business to know
19:51
about an irrevoable trust that I technically didn't know.
19:55
So I said it's none of your business.
19:57
And she looked at me and said, what do you need?
19:58
Some of my business. I'm entitled to everything.
20:01
And my attorney didn't say anything and I took the
20:03
position. It's none of her business, she
20:06
said. We'll call the judge.
20:07
The judge sat on a speaker, whatever her name was, really,
20:12
it is none of our business at this point.
20:14
And I felt a victory, man, I got.
20:17
Got it. I won and I beat the government
20:21
and we started talking about things like was I drinking or if
20:24
I'd done drugs? And I said, ma'am, I hadn't done
20:26
drugs since the late 70s, early 80s, since since college,
20:30
drinking. Yeah, you're kidding me.
20:31
I drink like wish. Who wouldn't give him the stress
20:34
and strain I'm under? And she said to me, well, is it
20:36
a problem? And I said, well, not so much
20:38
for me, but it is for my wife. And the only thing I'm thinking
20:41
of is I got to get out of here and have a drink.
20:43
And. And I didn't know why she was
20:46
asking me about this. My attorney who promised me
20:48
probation never told me about the RDAP drug and alcohol
20:52
program and why he's asking me that.
20:54
But fortunately I answered that question honestly, but without
20:59
knowing the significance of it. Day of sentencing I turn up and
21:03
that interviewer was sitting there and unbeknownst to me she
21:07
was the judge's favorite employee, smiled at me and she
21:11
had the last laugh. And I remember and we kind of
21:14
skip ahead to the day of of sentencing and my attorney got
21:18
up and said their piece. Prosecutor got up and
21:21
recommended 12 months non custodial followed by three
21:25
years or two years of probation. And it was my turn and I was
21:28
still mad as hell at the judge and said what I did to the to
21:33
the judge in the court and the judge, and this is one of those
21:36
things you'll remember. Judge looked down on me and this
21:38
is a particularly difficult judge, well known for this,
21:41
looked down and said Mr. Mangle, you are no different than any
21:44
vagrant on the street. You're actually worse.
21:47
Clearly you came from a better background than many people who
21:51
stand in front of me. Yet you do not understand the
21:53
gravity of your situation. You clearly accept no
21:56
responsibility, should know, show no remorse for for what you
21:59
did or your victims. That diatribe went on for 20
22:03
minutes, and afterwards he said I'm going to do something I
22:07
rarely do. I'm deviating from guidelines or
22:09
recommendation, and I'm giving you a sentence of 60 months.
22:13
And I I looked down. I thought he said six.
22:17
I looked down at my attorney, who wrote 60 last time I ever
22:19
saw my attorney, 60 on his legal pad.
22:22
And then I remember the first thing I thought of, wow, I'm
22:26
going to be in prison for four years and two months, 85%.
22:30
And he remanded me to custody. Oh man.
22:33
Which is not done often. No.
22:35
And I went into the bowels of the Philadelphia Detention
22:37
Center and and I can share that story now if you want.
22:41
I remember going down into a holding pen with 20 other inner
22:45
city inmates, defendants from Philadelphia.
22:49
And I was the only, you know, 54 year old white Jewish guy, bald
22:55
with glasses that walked in and they quickly got me up to my
22:59
floor and they gave me a bed roll and they said you're in
23:02
cell 31B or something or upper. And I remember going to my cell
23:08
and it was a young man, 30 years old with two teardrops and he's
23:14
looking at me and nothing was said.
23:16
And we're talking. And 30 minutes later, another
23:19
inmate came to the door and just shook his head like this and
23:22
left. And that's when I realized,
23:24
wait, these guys have phones. They know that I'm not a sex
23:27
offender because that, you know when when a young or an older
23:31
white guy comes in and and it's remanded the custody, usually
23:35
it's a sex offense or some form of violence, it's not a white
23:37
collar crime. That's when that 30 year old who
23:40
was there for 30 years to life, fentanyl said to me, You know, I
23:45
never met a Jew before and the only thing I can think of saying
23:49
was, wow, I never met a gang member before and I figured, you
23:53
know, if he didn't stab me, then I was going to make it.
23:58
You're going to survive and. That started my six weeks at the
24:00
detention center before, you know, I took the bus.
24:03
Oh man. And and and you know I talked
24:05
about this same when we were talking on the phone is that
24:08
that is the worst of of detention is is that jail piece.
24:15
You know when you you know it's so transitory.
24:19
Somebody could be there for a DWI or somebody that could have
24:21
killed somebody. Everybody's thrown into the same
24:23
thing. Most people don't ever go
24:24
outside. They're stuck in this pod.
24:27
And I mean it's it's like shock treatment and you went directly
24:32
into that totally unplanned. I can't imagine, because I'm
24:35
sure the conversation you had with your wife going into that
24:37
courtroom, you were not thinking that was the last conversation
24:39
you were gonna have before you were remanded to custody.
24:42
I took my daughter to work that day and I said to her, Kelly,
24:46
where do you want to go for dinner tonight, 'cause after
24:48
this is over, any restaurant you want to go will go for dinner.
24:51
Unbeknownst, my dinner was going to be a Bologna sandwich in the
24:54
Holding Center or the Philadelphia Detention Center.
24:58
So. So let's talk about that six
25:01
weeks because are you, what kind of communication do you having
25:06
with your attorney or anyone in that world of what happens next?
25:11
Because that that's an that's you've entered into the unknown
25:14
world immediately. And you when you get into that,
25:19
the worst thing you want is to travel as a prisoner which
25:23
you're you're automatically, you know, signed up for when they do
25:27
that to you. Otherwise you have a voluntary,
25:30
you know, surrender to that prison at the they give you a
25:33
date and time and you show up at the gate and say I'm here.
25:36
That's not your world of what you went through, Sam.
25:39
So I learned quickly what to say, what not to say and to kind
25:45
of hide behind my cellie, my roommate.
25:48
He was the king of the pod. Clearly it was a a more senior
25:52
gang member. And I I tried to be as low key
25:56
as possible. I never talked to my attorney
26:00
again, had no communication. But on the first night I called
26:03
my wife and I said appeal. The first thing that people
26:07
think about after they get to prison or they're sentenced is
26:11
an appeal. Somebody got it wrong, my
26:13
attorney got it wrong, or the judge got it wrong.
26:16
Appeal, because that's the last vestige of of hope is an appeal.
26:22
And people don't realize what goes into it in the likelihood
26:25
or or not of success. And money.
26:28
So it was another $50,000 on an appeal attorney and same
26:33
treatment where I had to deal with him in Philadelphia.
26:38
I didn't know that I wasn't going to stay at the detention
26:41
Center for the length of my sentence, or I thought maybe
26:43
they were going to transfer me to a local prison while I was
26:47
there. It was they.
26:52
They had violence, there's no question about it.
26:54
There was quite a bit of tension on the floor.
26:57
So it may get stabbed and you learn very quickly how to stay
27:04
out of things. But I also remember one thing
27:05
about being in a in a in a cell is the Jingle of the keys.
27:10
That's how you know the door is being locked at night.
27:13
And that's how you know when you're being let out for either
27:16
after count or in the morning. And you pay attention because
27:19
there are no clocks or no alarms.
27:21
It's the Jingle of the keys. And I can't imagine being in a
27:25
higher level institution for a long sentence because that's
27:29
that is the only thing that is with regularity is the Jingle of
27:34
the keys. And it was a great feeling when
27:38
I finally got down to the camp in Miami.
27:40
Not to hear that anymore, but. So how did you get transported
27:45
down there? One afternoon they called me and
27:48
said pack up. Well, in the detention center, I
27:50
don't have much to pack up. And I said, where am I going?
27:53
We can't tell you. I said we mean I have to tell my
27:56
wife. We mean, I'm like, you can't
27:57
tell me. So a counselor said to me,
28:00
pulled me aside. I said I think you're going to
28:02
Miami. I said Miami.
28:03
Well, I had been a resident of Florida and I didn't understand
28:06
how the BOP functioned and how designation worked.
28:09
So I said no, I can't go to Miami.
28:11
My appeal is being heard up here.
28:12
I need to go to a place closer. There was no discussing it.
28:16
And my cellmate said to me, you're going to camp, right?
28:19
And I said, I hope ask to be a bus orderly.
28:24
And I said, what is it? He said, trust me, ask to be a
28:27
bus orderly because you're minimum security.
28:30
So I went downstairs the following morning at 4:00 or
28:33
you're in a long line of inmates going on a on a bus that has
28:37
rails and and bars on the outside.
28:40
And they stand everybody in line, put you in a in like a
28:43
polyester jumpsuit and they start shackling you and they
28:46
shackle your feet and they shackle your hands, but they
28:49
also put you in a black box in front of you so you have no way
28:53
of moving your hands. And I said to the Marshall, I'm
28:57
going to a camp, I'd like to be an orderly.
29:00
He said, well, how do you know about that?
29:01
And I said, you know, I don't. But I was asked.
29:04
He said, OK, you're the orderly. I think this is great.
29:07
We're getting on the bus now is a Thursday.
29:09
It was a whatever. Thursday morning, I'll be in
29:11
Miami by Friday night. Perfect.
29:13
And I'll be in orderly. So the only thing in the orderly
29:16
is your hands weren't shackled, but your legs were.
29:17
And when they marched you on the bus, they assigned the seating
29:21
and I was the person to give out water and food to the people on
29:26
the bus. What a great thing to get his
29:29
advice from your cell mate. This is perfect.
29:32
It's 19 hours to Miami. I'll deal with it till I
29:35
realized that's not how the BOP transports people.
29:38
It's called diesel therapy. So the first stop we had was
29:41
Washington, DC to pick up and drop off people.
29:45
Then we stopped at Petersburg, VA where they said get off.
29:48
I said I'm not getting off. I'm going to Miami, get off the
29:50
bus. That'd be a mistake.
29:53
Maybe they want to clean the bus.
29:55
It shows you how deluded my my got off the bus and they marched
30:00
us in the Petersburg where they restripped us, gave us a a bag
30:04
of baloney and put us in a cell and they put me in a cell with
30:08
somebody I don't remember who it was for five days and that cell,
30:12
thank God, had a shower. But I couldn't get my wife.
30:14
I, you know, my my wife didn't know where I was.
30:16
She just knew I wasn't in the system anymore. 2 weeks later
30:21
after going to Petersburg Atlanta, which is the worst
30:26
facility I could ever imagine. It's a United States penetrator.
30:29
You've heard about it Where? I was housed with a individual
30:34
illegal immigrant medium security that couldn't sleep and
30:38
he would walk the cell at night and that was scary.
30:41
Five days later we went to Tallahassee.
30:44
We were for one night. Finally 2 weeks later on a
30:47
Friday got to the camp in Miami and and I.
30:50
Have you ever talked to your wife through this whole process?
30:53
One time in Atlanta, I was allowed to use the phone.
30:56
It cut off after about a minute. So that was it.
31:00
It got to my Wow, this is perfect.
31:02
I'm in Miami. I can see the camp next door.
31:05
No wires. Guys are outside.
31:07
They're running. The track guard said to me, come
31:09
inside. I went inside to R&D the
31:12
reception and he said, mangle, you're in the shoe.
31:16
I said shoe. Is that a?
31:18
Is that a unit? He said.
31:19
No, we don't have your paperwork.
31:22
I've been on the bus for two weeks.
31:23
How could you not have my paperwork?
31:25
Sorry. They put me in the in the shoe
31:27
for the weekend, which was pure hell.
31:31
It was two nights of banging and yelling.
31:34
Finally got out of the shoe on a Monday morning, went across the
31:38
street and I was in the camp where I spent 21 months roughly
31:42
of my 16 months sentence. Wow.
31:46
Sam won an entry into the world of prison.
31:49
I mean, from the I I didn't know that story.
31:52
I I that you're talking about hardcore entry therapy.
32:00
I mean when you when you got to that camp, I'm sure you felt
32:03
like I'm in prison. But OK, well.
32:06
So the first night a gentleman, an older gentleman said to me,
32:09
am I there for Ardap? So what's Ardap?
32:11
I didn't know what Ardap was. Remember I was getting
32:13
probation, He explained to what Ardap was.
32:16
And I remembered saying in my pre sentence interview that
32:19
yeah, I drink a lot. Back then Miami was actively
32:23
seeking participants to the program.
32:24
There was. They needed people in the
32:26
program. Yeah, so I went the next day and
32:28
I applied. That was May of 2018.
32:31
They put me in the August class and I I completed the class
32:35
there. What was interesting is I
32:37
remember about two weeks into my stay in Miami, another old,
32:40
older gentleman came running down the hallway.
32:43
President Trump is closing all the camps.
32:45
Big budget change. That's where I got exposed to
32:47
inmate.com. And I ran to the phone and I
32:51
called my wife and I said, candy, you're going to have to
32:54
come pick me up in a couple days.
32:55
Trump is closing all the camps. Really.
32:58
Yeah, really. This guy just said it.
33:00
I didn't know that inmate.com existed, and all the wishful
33:04
thinking goes along with it. So in many ways it was diesel
33:09
therapy, it was shock therapy, all in a very short period of
33:12
time. Wow.
33:15
So what? So you get into this unknown
33:17
world where you're going to be spending however long that
33:19
you've, you know, you start mitigating your situation.
33:22
But how? Did you have any strategies at
33:26
all? Go and say I'm into that crazy
33:29
unknown world? Or did you just walk in after
33:32
spending the time that you spent getting there?
33:35
Were you in shock? Worn out Or you were thinking,
33:40
OK, this is a recharge. Let me figure out how I'm going
33:43
to live here. The latter I I think that I was
33:46
exhausted from the eight week experience and at that point
33:50
keep in mind there was no first step act that didn't until the
33:54
end of 18 and I didn't know about R DAP.
33:57
So when I got into R DAP, I realized, OK, well that's one
34:01
year that's going to come off of my, you know, four year and
34:03
two-month sentence, but. Which is a huge thing.
34:08
I mean when like even when you go in and you have to they do
34:12
your interview or whatever they're at the prison.
34:15
You don't know for sure until it shows up that yes, you've got
34:18
accepted and it shows up in your your release date that they've
34:22
knocked a year off. Which is huge when you're
34:25
looking at a you and I both had sixty months and and you know
34:28
you can count that any way you want to, but it's it's not you
34:31
know, it's sixty months. I I I remember when that year
34:35
came off and I called my wife and I said it's now down to
34:39
about 37 months roughly again still and it came off before the
34:43
first step back still. But it wasn't until COVID hit
34:50
that things started to change. And and I'm a big fan of telling
34:56
people when they enter prison A you want to be a little fish in
35:01
a big pond because especially in camps guys are all still living
35:06
what they perceive to be a dream.
35:10
A lot of guys were very successful and lost it all.
35:14
For instance, the only person I was considered somewhat friendly
35:16
with in the camp in Miami was Peter Madoff, Bernie's brother,
35:20
great guy who used to walk the track at night.
35:23
And a lot of the the white collar inmates there wound up
35:29
losing everything. And we still live the life of,
35:32
well, when this is over, a helicopter is going to pick me
35:34
up and take me to my Gulf Stream.
35:36
And there there's in many ways almost psychosis.
35:40
You can't really call people out on it.
35:42
You just shake your head and OK. But what I wanted to do was not
35:48
only be quiet and and kind of a wallflower, but also I always
35:54
have people know your audience, know the counselor, know the
35:57
case manager and in my case know the warden.
36:01
And I, if I can tell a story maybe a couple months into it, I
36:06
was out back. I was always the first one up in
36:08
the morning 5:00 and in Miami the the spin bikes which were
36:13
old Schwinn bikes that they weren't in the new bikes you see
36:15
now we're underneath the pavilion and there was some TV's
36:18
outside. So I was Outback one day, 6:00
36:22
in the morning. The warden walked up to me with
36:25
his administrative assistant and he said, you know, I always see
36:28
you out here by yourself in the morning.
36:30
Have you been riding for? For a while?
36:31
And I said, yes. This is my passion.
36:33
I really enjoy riding. It was right around the Tour de
36:35
France of 2018 and he said, well, let me tell you, I'm a new
36:41
rider and I got this bike and it's just not fitting me well.
36:45
And I don't know what it is. Maybe you'd be willing to give
36:48
me some suggestions, I said. Sure, he said.
36:50
Well, I'll bring the bike in tomorrow and I'll put your name
36:53
on on a call out and you'll hear your name page because my office
36:57
is in the low next door. His office is in the camp.
36:59
Can you come over and help me with the bike?
37:03
Sure I didn't. No.
37:04
No reason not to. To.
37:07
One of the older inmates that had been through the system for
37:09
many years said to him. Were you talking to the warden?
37:12
I said, yeah, it came up. You can't talk to the warden, so
37:15
why? The guy just came up to me about
37:17
cycling. If anybody sees you talking to
37:19
the warden, they're going. To take me to.
37:21
Your stitch and it's a problem, I said.
37:24
It's not my problem. I I don't care what you guys do.
37:27
And I'm going to talk to the warden.
37:31
When in the next day, my name was called out and escorted me
37:34
because you have to go through security into the his office.
37:36
And there's a big box of Dunkin' Donuts and Dunkin Coffee.
37:39
And the TV was turned on to the Tour de France.
37:43
And then at that point I figured, all right, I can make
37:45
it through this. So I helped the warden for this
37:47
bike. He said if you want to come back
37:49
next couple days to watch the tour, you can.
37:51
I appreciate your help. OK.
37:54
When I went back that night, the same inmate who threatened me
37:58
said to me, hey, and I must have mentioned I was going back.
38:01
Any chance you can find something out for me, whatever
38:04
it was? He asked.
38:05
I said, So you want me to ask the warden a favor for you?
38:08
That would be really cool. Sure, I'll ask for you.
38:11
Well, all of a sudden now guys are coming up and saying, hey,
38:14
can you find something out from the warden?
38:16
But the warden said to me towards the end of that two
38:19
weeks. Listen, if there's anything I
38:21
can do for you that's appropriate, you know, not
38:23
illegal or anything you know, I'd be more than happy to try.
38:28
I remember they in October of 2019, the case manager called me
38:33
in and gave my release paperwork and said I was getting 6 to 9
38:37
months halfway house. I was being released July of
38:40
2020 and I remember I could get 12 months.
38:44
That's that's what you're allowed on a 16 month sentence
38:46
with home confinement. And I remember the warden said,
38:49
well if there's anything I could do for you, emailed the warden.
38:52
Do you remember you said that to me?
38:54
Can I can I meet with you? Yes.
38:56
At 4:00 that afternoon I get paged into the case manager's
38:59
office. This was a really angry case
39:02
manager. She did not like me.
39:04
I don't think she liked any white collar guys.
39:07
She said mangle, you went over my head and I said yeah I did
39:10
because I was entitled to 12 months.
39:13
You got your 12 months and she lot of expletives between you
39:16
went you got your 12 months handed it to me.
39:19
I never want to see you here again.
39:21
OK, that's it. I walked back out, never had to
39:24
see her again. But I got my 12 months.
39:26
So reading your crowd and knowing you're in jail, you're
39:31
in, you're you know you're with 85% of the people have nothing,
39:36
have no money and and everybody has a hustle understanding your
39:41
environment. And and what really got me into
39:44
this was I saw guys with charges greater than mine, guidelines
39:49
greater than mine that had sentences well under mine that
39:51
knew about our debt. Remember saying to a couple of
39:54
them, how did you know this? Did your attorney, attorneys
39:57
knew nothing. We hired A consultant and they
40:00
gave me the name of a couple of different consultants and I
40:02
remember saying to my wife and daughter when they came to
40:04
visit. Because they kept saying what
40:06
are you going to do when you get out?
40:08
I'm going to help people. I'm going to be a consultant.
40:10
And my daughter was livid. You know, she thought you have
40:13
to stay away from this business, this industry.
40:15
Why would you want to get, you know stay immersed in something
40:18
this horrible? And I said because I think I can
40:21
help people and I understand the system.
40:23
And I got out and you know I interviewed four or five
40:25
companies, wound up going with one, one of the larger companies
40:29
in the in the country left them after about two years because of
40:32
a difference of opinion and started my own I guess in
40:36
December 22 and never looked back.
40:40
It's it's a great story, Sam. And you know I talked a little
40:44
bit about this because it's re entry is hard, you know.
40:49
But you one of the things I think is is so great about your
40:54
story is, is that you've you are who you are now you you you were
40:57
a successful entrepreneur successful business.
41:00
You got taken down a track that you never thought you'd be down,
41:05
but they didn't take your brain. And you're using that for the
41:09
experience that you've had from the time that you went to Hong
41:12
Kong to the time that you got out of prison and what you've
41:15
experienced and that can help so many people in so many ways.
41:21
And I think that's the thing that, you know, I find, you
41:25
know, I think I've been out seven years is, you know, when
41:29
you first get out, it's it's kind of like you have to find
41:31
your sea legs. You know it's like Oh my God I'm
41:32
out and you know you you come out with this gusto I'm gonna
41:35
conquer the world but you do find and can find your passion
41:39
you know and and I think that's why you are so have done so well
41:44
in a short amount of time is that is passion you get filled
41:48
up with that you you get and one of the things you told me is is
41:51
you know it's not about money to you it's a lot of the things you
41:54
do. I mean you you make money doing
41:56
this but you also just help people and and it's a it.
42:00
You balance that out and that's it's a needed thing.
42:06
People are scared to death in this environment of the criminal
42:10
justice system. And somebody who truly has good
42:14
intentions to help someone can be a lifesaver, can actually
42:18
save someone's life because a lot of people can get indicted
42:23
and they think I'm ending it. And and if they have somebody
42:27
that's holding their hand and says no, you can survive this
42:30
and this is how you survive that's that's what you're
42:34
offering people is to walk beside them and and give them
42:37
what they need. As I told you when we first
42:40
spoke, 85% of my practice is therapy.
42:43
It's about telling a client their their spouse, their
42:47
children, their parents. Hey, I'm available seven days a
42:51
week, and I don't tell you that because I expect you to call me
42:54
seven days a week. But you're going to get scared
42:57
on a Saturday night because you watched Orange is the New Black
42:59
or Oz and and the the fear of the unknown and the opaqueness
43:05
of prison is what really causes a lot of of turmoil and strife
43:10
within families. And if, if I could bring down
43:14
the temperature so much to where the family is ready for it and
43:20
understands it and they don't have to be happy about it, but
43:24
they're emotionally, physically, psychologically ready for it and
43:30
understands what they're getting into.
43:32
I remember when I first got out and the company I worked for
43:35
said, you know, you can't do this.
43:37
You have to be behind the scenes.
43:38
You need permission from your supervisor, lease officer.
43:42
And I went to him and I told him what I wanted to do.
43:44
And he said, Yep, you got it, No problem.
43:47
And what's interesting now is this coming Saturday, I'm going
43:52
back to the camp in Miami to visit my client.
43:55
Who's there? And I got permission.
43:59
So when I filled out the visitor form and I emailed it to the
44:02
counselor you have to indicate you know are you a felon and and
44:06
who was your supervisor release and I had it indicated all and
44:09
he got back and said Yep you can come.
44:10
So my my family saying why would you want to go back.
44:14
It's because I I know what it's like sitting on that bench in a
44:18
green outfit and waiting for the vending machine line.
44:23
And when I tell people this is going to be a blipping time and
44:28
it's going to be over. And what really upsets me is
44:32
when people say to me, what am I going to do when I'm out or I
44:35
have no future and and they have a family to support.
44:39
And I say, I just want to smack them on the head and say stop
44:42
it. You were successful before
44:44
whatever you did, you were successful.
44:47
You might not be able to practice medicine or law again,
44:50
but the knowledge that you had that made you successful will
44:53
make you successful again. And something else.
44:57
And. And I've helped people get jobs
44:58
in car dealers, and they're now the manager of the dealership.
45:02
Oh, right. It's not.
45:03
Oh, woe is me. What?
45:04
Am I going to No guess what? You have mouths to feed.
45:08
You have a responsibility. You have victims you have to
45:10
repay. So stop with a pity party.
45:13
Let's figure out a plan. And my mentality is as a
45:19
consultant, 15% of what I do is projects, you know, helping
45:23
people with with the interviews and and you know different
45:27
specific projects. 85% of my my time is talking to them and
45:33
helping them get through from step to step to step.
45:37
I get 50 emails a day from clients in custody with
45:39
different things. The funniest is I heard that,
45:42
you know, new criminal justice and 50% that's OK.
45:48
You know, I I went through that. So being a consultant is is not
45:54
about writing a narrative for somebody or or a fancy release
45:59
plan. It's about helping somebody
46:02
understand the situation they're in and get through it because it
46:06
will end. No.
46:08
And you're and that what you've just said there is is so
46:10
powerful because it's a mindset and and you're you're taking
46:14
them from if they have a victim mentality you're bringing them
46:17
over to the side of a survivor mentality and that's how they
46:20
will get through it. Before we I want to talk to you
46:23
about too one of your your takeaways through this but I
46:27
want to recognize Nightmare's success podcast is sponsored by
46:30
the White Collar Support group. It's the world's first support
46:32
group devoted to people navigating the white collar
46:34
criminal justice system. I'm a member of the White Collar
46:37
support group, and I can tell you this is a bunch of people
46:39
who help each other through the criminal justice journey for
46:41
free. Whether you're just starting
46:43
your journey or you made it through to the other side, this
46:45
is a great space for you. Come join us on Zoom.
46:48
Monday 7:00 PM Eastern, 4:00 PM Pacific Reformation.
46:51
Go to prisoners.org. That's prisoners.org.
46:54
Start here. So, Sam, you know when you first
46:57
started because I I what I the other thing I love about what
47:00
you're doing. I just happened to see you and I
47:03
think it was on CNNI. When I'm at home I'll put up all
47:07
four screens of with my YouTube TV so I can see all the the
47:11
different networks and and you popped up I think on the CNN
47:13
square and I thought that's interesting and what I love also
47:19
about what you do is you're a great voice for the justice
47:23
impacted community. You do a great job being you
47:26
know a consultant for someone individually.
47:29
What I also love is is that you get on and you're a great voice
47:34
for US. And by you being one of us and
47:39
being seen and talking and communicating, it's it's
47:47
breaking a narrative in a sense that whatever that narrative
47:51
thing is that is brought on by an ex felon, the way you present
47:57
yourself, the way you talk and the way that you present the
47:59
community is also creating its own path.
48:03
And and I I know that there's and I know you're probably aware
48:08
of that but that's that is a big part of the re entry community
48:12
is we all have to break the narrative because we all carry
48:16
that extra scarlet letter on our forehead that we're going to be
48:20
an ex felon for the rest of our lives.
48:23
But that's how we handle it, by overcoming and carrying that
48:27
weight and finding a new path and getting your passion, doing
48:31
whatever and helping break the narrative that all of us go back
48:34
to prison. Everybody's you know, a lost
48:37
cause and and I think that's one of the great things about what
48:40
you're doing, love the consulting, love the mitigation,
48:43
but the fact that you're on TV and you're doing the things that
48:45
you're doing helps the overall community.
48:47
So it's that's also a big deal. I don't let and I tell
48:51
everybody, don't let the Scarlet Letter define who you are.
48:57
If you do, you're doomed to you're doomed to fail.
49:00
If you say to yourself, yes, I I had an issue.
49:03
I've overcome the issue. That's not who I am now and move
49:07
on. As a a father, a husband and a
49:13
member of my community, I have a responsibility to a lot more
49:17
than just myself. If I was, if I was selfish and
49:19
worried about myself, only then I could sit and well in my own
49:23
pity. But that's not how life goes and
49:25
that's not how responsible people should live their lives
49:28
and tell anyone that's going through this or their family
49:33
that to hiccup, you know? That's that's another point I
49:37
don't want to just brush over. You and your family survived
49:42
your your your family stayed intact and it was a nightmare.
49:46
And it's something that the whole family goes through.
49:48
It's not just you. The whole family experiences
49:51
this nightmare and they figure out how to get through it.
49:53
I also see that as something you help people with of because you
49:58
know, the saddest thing that I ever saw in prison was is seeing
50:02
people lose everything in their family.
50:05
Those are really, really dark days and if we can do anything
50:09
in our world of helping families try to stay together, that's
50:12
that's a huge thing for for people to navigate through.
50:15
But if it can be done, I think it's a game changer.
50:19
In the end we. Just married 35 years and my
50:21
wife is a frequent speaker of spouses that are going through
50:26
this. And I always tell the spouse,
50:29
you can talk to clergy, you can talk to support groups, you can
50:32
talk to friends or family. But there's nothing like talking
50:35
to someone who's going through it and come out the other end
50:38
successfully. And my wife often tells people
50:41
the worst experience of this is when I came home and she lost
50:44
ATV pusher at night. Hey, hindsight, if that's the
50:48
worst thing, we can deal with it.
50:50
Well, I and and I I still identify with that I had.
50:53
I had a wife that I always say that she should have worn a Cape
50:56
for the superhero status that she she had with.
50:58
I had three daughters and I think the way they got through
51:01
it was looking at her as a role model of how she got through it.
51:05
And you know, she was one of the wives that showed up every every
51:09
week and that's how we stayed plugged in and it was a four and
51:12
a half hour drive one way. And those things that spouses do
51:19
when we're in is remarkable. It really is.
51:23
She held down. Really is.
51:25
Like she tells me before this happened, she never opened the
51:28
checkbook. Ever.
51:29
Never paid the bill. My wife didn't either last.
51:32
She only does the checkbooks and the pills and I said that's
51:35
great, I never liked that. You learn very quickly and and
51:38
it's an unfortunate way to learn, but we learn.
51:43
Yeah, I I always ask people this question, Sam and I'm curious
51:49
what your answer is on what do you think is your greatest take
51:53
away through all of this that you've experienced a?
51:58
Certain probably sense of humility and a loss of arrogance
52:06
because that experience is humbling.
52:09
So humbling. When you're told lights go on at
52:12
6:00 in the morning, everyone wears the same colour, eats the
52:14
same meal, has the same amount of money every month to spend, I
52:18
think it's not only humbling, but it it it gives me a new way
52:23
to. I'm a lot less judgmental of
52:26
people and much more forgiving to family and and to anybody,
52:32
because people are not perfect inherently.
52:37
We make mistakes, some worse than others, and mistakes have
52:41
consequences. And I don't feel that you can
52:44
judge someone necessarily by the mistakes that they made,
52:50
especially if they take the action to either correct it, own
52:54
it and move forward. Absolutely.
52:58
That's great. That's a great take away.
53:01
And it's so true. It opens up your eyes to so many
53:04
things. Sam.
53:06
If people wanna get a hold of you, where where do they go?
53:09
Is it? Is it Sam.
53:10
Mingle dot. Wow, actually interesting story.
53:12
Might the former firm that I worked with bought my name for a
53:16
domain name, so you can't use mangle dot?
53:19
I actually take that as as a as a an my.
53:22
Name back headed Compliment? Sure.
53:24
So it's sam-mangle.com. You can Google Sam mangle or
53:30
they can, you know, just look me up, call me.
53:33
The best place is just to Google.
53:35
You have a YouTube channel too. YouTube channel, but just now
53:39
you can Google Sam Mangle and it doesn't go to my former firm's
53:41
website. I love it.
53:45
I love it. And you know, for any of you out
53:48
there, I know that you had to have gotten something from this
53:50
today because Sam's got one heck of a story with a lot of Nuggets
53:54
of wisdom. Follow.
53:56
Subscribe. Share.
53:57
It's a big deal. Comment.
54:00
Hey, if you're looking for a book out there, I've got one
54:02
nightmare success, Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
54:04
Go check that out. I know it's a hassle, but if you
54:08
got time it it puts the show on steroids.
54:10
If you leave a review on Apple, it says something to the show
54:14
and it's a really good thing. If you want it to find me, it's
54:17
brentcassidy.com. I spell it wrong.
54:20
It's with aty not a DY Sam. Thanks so much for being on.
54:26
I love your story. I'm a big fan of yours and and I
54:29
wish you the the best of everything that you're doing.
54:32
The. Opportunity.
54:34
Neimer's success in and out. Oh, and as I always used to say
54:38
when I was writing my emails back and forth, stay strong.
54:40
I'll do the same. See y'all later.
54:42
Bye.