Latest / Off the Chart: A Business of Medicine Podcast / S1 Ep132: PAs, AI and the onboarding problem, with Kelly Villella of Wolters Kluwer Health
Transcript
- 0:00 AI is changing so rapidly, people are trying to keep up, and this is a profession that we chose to zero in on pa specifically because it's one of the most rapidly growing healthcare provider professions that's actually transforming health itself, while AI is also transforming health. So I think it's interesting intersections that we find in the survey welcomed off the chart a 0:35 business of medicine podcast featuring lively and informative conversations with healthcare experts, opinion leaders and practicing physicians about the challenges facing doctors and medical practices. My name is Austin Latrell. I'm the associate editor of medical economics, and I'd like to thank you for joining us today before we get started. As a quick note, physician's practice will be hosting practice Academy's new practice management track on Thursday, March 19. The Virtual Learning Experience is designed for physicians and practice administrators looking for practical, real world strategies to strengthen operations, improve performance and build more resilient practices. Speakers include Anders Gilberg of MGMA, Bronson Cox of encoded Justin, Lamb of cool blue, VA and Mark Herzog of Vera dime. You can register today by clicking the link in the show notes or by going to registration.physicianspractice.com that said in today's episode, Keith Reynolds, the managing editor physicians practice, sat down with Kelly Villella, segment, leader and Director of Product Management at Walters Kluwer health. They're talking about a recent Walter Kluwer survey of physician assistants, and what the results mean for the practice managers who hire them and onboard them. Kelly walks through where the new pas tend to feel confident on day one and where they tend to struggle why documentation keeps coming up as a pain point and what practices should actually be doing. About AI right now. Kelly vilella, thank you for joining us, and now let's get into the episode. 1:54 Hey there folks, today. We're talking to Kelly Villella, the segment leader and Director of Product Management at Wolters Kluwer. We're talking about a physician's assistant survey that they've done recently. How you doing today? 2:05 Kelly, nice to be here. Keith, I'm doing well. Glad to Hey, glad 2:09 to hear it. So tell us a little bit more about yourself. 2:12 Kelly, yeah, as almost five years as director of the medical education business unit, Wolter health, our portfolio, interestingly, when the name addresses digital products and textbooks for students studying to be pas, but also physicians, pharmacists, PT, OT, exercise physiology, so we, and I have peers who oversee nursing education. I'm approaching 27 years in higher ed tech and learning all these years preparing students for critical professions, and I'm looking forward to talking about our survey, 2:46 all right, so let's, let's dig right into it. So when you read this report, you know what felt most familiar and what sort of surprised you about it? 2:55 Nothing was extremely shocking, but you know the results I found to be a helpful offer, a helpful reminder that physicians associates, one are grappling with many of the same challenges all professionals across Healthware are and even healthcare and even other industries during this technical revolution that we're in with. AI also, you know, physicians associates expressed extreme confidence. What employee survey can any of us find where 96% feel really confident to interact with patients? A lot of high confidence on documentation, although you know there's 20% who weren't as feeling as prepared when it came to documentation. What's most interesting and standout, but not surprising is that they're although their use of AI is growing, 87% still feel like they need more AI training. And I think that's true across a lot of healthcare and other professions. AI is changing so rapidly, people are trying to keep up, and this is a profession that we chose to zero in on pa specifically, because it's one of the most rapidly growing healthcare provider professions, and that's actually transforming health itself, while AI is also transforming health. So I think it's interesting intersections that we find in the survey. 4:17 Okay, so, yeah, we're in, we're in the, you know, the brave new world of you know, AI being involved in everything. So what's changed most in the day to day reality of being a PA in the last few years? 4:31 They mentioned in the survey themselves that, you know, primarily the top two things were dealing with insurance companies, which is an interesting area that we'll need to dig in further on. We didn't get a lot of detail around that, although we all deal with insurance companies and can imagine what that must be like. And then also, you know, just the use of AI tools, I think, as AIS around us, and every practice hasn't taken on AI officially into their i. Technology so multiple people are grappling with, what to use, what not to use, acceptable use, and and then that documentation piece that came up, I think both documentation, the intersection of AI to support documentation that was an area that they cited, and other surveys have also cited that could be most supported by AI. So it's really interesting, that's an area that people feel less prepared. It's tricky, documentation, it's important, but it's also takes you away from face to face with the patient and and the use of AI might be tools to support making it more efficient and effective. So that's my connections from what I saw on the survey. 5:43 All right, so, you know, our audience is mainly, you know, practice, administrators, managers, leaders, things like that, when they're bringing in new pas, you know, where do pas tend to feel strongest on day one, and where do they need the most support? 5:59 Yeah, I mean, the survey was very clear that they are, feel completely prepared for patient interaction. They are, and I was pleased to see exactly what we know about this profession, that they're trusted, highly trained, and patients can expect a really great experience. There was you know, 20% who said, you know, documentation, documentation is a challenge, if you think about it, there's preparation, but then each each individual practice has different systems. So always in onboarding, you have to onboard in the systems, and possibly even think about what are best practices so that they can focus on the patient while doing all the necessary administrative paperwork. And then, you know, AI they're asking for training on AI that can mean a variety of things. And I have a lot of thoughts, since you know, from working in education, on what can be done to prepare before pas come into practice in the education program. And I think there's a level of preparedness that needs to happen related to how to understanding AI, how to use it. And then I think you know, from a practice perspective, one at a higher up administrator level, integrating tools that make your clinicians more efficient and more effective, but that are already proven to be trusted, approved, acceptable for you for use, and then I think to guiding, providing a clear guiding policy in your onboarding about what's acceptable to use and not how to use it. So I think that kind of onboarding training, specifically in the ecosystem of these are the tools that we have Alrighty. 7:40 So if you were designing the ideal onboarding plan for a busy clinic, what are the must haves? 7:47 I mean, there are so many things that they're already working. I think the must have I would focus on the add ins are, again, what I was just saying, a plan related to guidelines and policy, what are the technologies that we currently have integrated into our systems? How are you able to use those AI technologies and really addressing head on? You know what? Like shadow AI unacceptable uses. There are all kinds of open sources proliferating, and you might think because you use it day to day now in your personal life as a new clinician, a new clinician. Well, I'm just like, let me run my notes through this. That is not unacceptable, because we have to, you know, so I think that's an important like upskilling like to your policies and onboarding to incorporate clear understanding of, I think people don't even all know the term shadow AI, like understand, like there's acceptable AI and things that you do in your day to day, you might not be able to do leverage when you're in the practice. And that's true in any organization. All right, so 9:01 we've already touched on it a little bit. Little bit. But, you know, the report really looks at, you know, a workflow friction amongst, you know, pas, what do you see as the root cause of that? 9:11 Yeah, I mean, I just was with a PA today, my medical appointment, and I just there's, they have to write things down for this organization. They also have to type things up. It has to go into an EHR. They want to focus on the patient. So I think they're, you know, and then I was also working with a PA student today, you know, every place that she has rotated has a different system. So imagine if, like, I use the same systems every day at work. You know, like, if you're you're just adjusting to different systems, and the systems are necessary, and there's a lot of things that need to be written up and stored, but you really are there to focus on the patient and giving the best cares. To me, that's the friction. It's a. Necessary workflow. But in some ways, it takes you away from the passion and the mid of the mission, right? How can we make it more efficient to keep that documentation? I think that's the opportunity for AI as well, to integrate into the workflow in ways that are protected, secure. But you know, I think the that the friction is this isn't the reason you do the job. This is just a necessary part of the job. 10:28 So, you know, part of that is, you know, the balance of, you know, productivity and quality and documentation and stuff like that. How should you know practice managers balance those expectations when bringing in newer clinicians? 10:47 I'm still thinking in the vein of AI, but in general, you know, when you're brand new, you're learning for the first time at a full time, you know all the responsibilities and juggling that. And as I said, I think that's why documentation can be a friction point. The reason you get into the field and your focus is that the patient has a good experience, that their diagnosis and support is correct, that they're on a, you know, the treatment plan that they need, but that thinking about, you know, how to really put thought on the training related to tools and systems that are going to make them more efficient, so that they feel like they can focus on the, you know, the core part of the responsibility. So again, I would go to the the leaders of the practice need to be thinking about like now, what are our trusted solutions that we're already using in our workflow, and what are they doing to add AI in expert AI into a workflow where it will actually make my staff more efficient, more effective, but also educating staff that you know, AI, humans aren't perfect. We all make mistakes. But you know, like, check your work. If you're going to leverage AI, let's say to transcribe a lot of ambient listening, transcription, read it through again, make sure there isn't a mistake, you know. So like, how can we use technology and AI is really driving this to be more efficient and more effective, but also checks and balances, and that's what we're talking about, even day to day with our own employees. Like, you know, we have ways to use it, but you can't. It's not doing your whole documentation job for you. It's an aid. So getting really explicit about that, like, what the expectations are, you can leverage these tools, but then you need to, you know, have checks and balances. 12:53 Hey there. Keith Reynolds here and welcome to the p2 management minute in just 60 seconds, we deliver proven, real world tactics you can plug into your practice today, whether that means speeding up check in, lifting staff morale or nudging patient satisfaction north. No theory, no fluff, just the kind of guidance that fits between appointments and moves the needle before lunch. But the best ideas don't all come from our newsroom. They come from you got a clever workflow? Hack an employee engagement win or a lesson learned the hard way. I want to feature it. Shoot me an email at K Reynolds at mjh life sciences.com, with your topic, quick outline or even a smartphone clip. We'll handle the rest and get your insights in front of your peers nationwide. Let's make every minute count together. Thanks for watching, and I'll see you in the next p2 management minute. You it. So, you know, you know this a lot AI is all over the report. So it seems to me, and you know, correct me if I'm wrong, because often I am. You know, it seems that practice leaders, when they're sort of implementing the AI into their practice, should think of it more as an augmentation of, you know, the things that clinicians are actually able to do instead of, you know, sort of a replacement, or even, you know, just an add on to it, but it's more of a start from you know. How can this help our employees, rather than, you know, step in? Does that right? Does that sound right to you? 14:21 There are so many different opportunities and uses in healthcare for AI. And I'll, you know, take a moment to mention, you know, AI is already being any radiologist will talk about how AI is already being used as a second read on our scans and our screens, and a human, an expert human, is still in the loop. But then there's also AI looking and detecting maybe something we didn't see, or maybe that, you know. So there's, there's so many different kinds of use cases. I mentioned the documentation. There's already clinicians, pas and other clinicians referencing evidence based sources, looking up sources when they're trying to diagnose and. Three I think about in my everyday now, being able to leverage AI to scan multiple sources more quickly and bring me back information, but with cited references. So the other thing is incorporating, instead of just looking at AI as a thing, it's, you know, as a separate thing or tool set. Think about it as, how are these features going to be integrated into trusted, evidence based, secure solution workflow solutions that we already would be implementing? So So, yes, I think of it as, instead of a be all, end all, like AI is a solution. AI is a feature that is augmenting a solution and making it even more powerful for you in your everyday practice, so you can be more efficient. I think that's really where we want to see AI go. And we want to make sure, you know, a practices should be thinking about, how are they starting to evaluate even the current solutions that they have to make sure they have this expert AI that's trusted built into those solutions, alrighty. 16:06 So if a practice manager, you know, watches this video or looks at the report, you know, what's one thing that they can do differently next week 16:15 down as a team and work on, what are the policies we might just work on, you know, writing written and plan for communication of policies related to acceptable use, safe use. Don't assume, because it's so nascent and evolving, that every clinician coming in has the same understanding. You and I might say, of course, you never put something in some open AI, so it's best to at this point where things are changing so much, not assume anything, and just sit down and document your current policy and revisit that because, as you might not actually have AI solutions integrated into your current workflow. Now make a plan to evaluate with your vendors and your different solutions, like what is going to be incorporated, related to expert AI, how you can train your staff and your team to leverage that, and also explicitly write some policy for the different clinicians on your team about what they can and cannot use today. 17:21 Alrighty, I think that's all the questions I've got for you. Is there anything else you want to add? Anything you think I'm overlooking? 17:27 Yeah, I would just say, I know you're very focused on practice. And, you know, practice begins with education. So, you know, I really, you know, we looked to do this survey to think about, what do we need to do more upfront in the education in the years that you're studying at the university to become, you know, a Physician Associate. So I think there's a great message in the survey for the PA programs that are educating to also think about, what are our how are we starting to model use of AI now in education, how are we starting to communicate acceptable use or not in the curriculum. So that when a practice manager is getting a new clinician, they already have a mindset related to this, and that's really, you know, it's evolving so rapidly that I think that connection is really important. And then when they get to practice, they can be trained on the specific tools, the specific use cases, but they still have like a mindset towards how to think about it an appropriate use, because it is going to be transformative. Alrighty. 18:30 Thank you so much. Kelly, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. Thanks, Keith. 18:42 Once again, that was Director of Product Management at Wolters Kluwer health, speaking with Keith Reynolds, the managing editor of physicians practice, on behalf of the whole medical economics and physicians practice teams. I'd like to thank you for listening to the show and ask you to please subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. And don't forget, physicians practice will be hosting practice Academy's new practice management track on Thursday, March 19, featuring practical, actionable education for physicians and practice administrators. You can register today by clicking the link in the show notes or by going to registration.physicianspractice.com as always, be sure to check back on Monday and Thursday mornings for the latest conversations with experts, sharing strategies, stories and solutions for your practice. You can find us by searching off the chart wherever you get your podcasts also, if you'd like the best stories that medical economics and physicians practice published delivered straight to your email six days of the week. Subscribe to our newsletters at medical economics.com and physicianspractice.com off the chart, a business and medicine podcast is executive produced by Chris Mazzini and Keith Reynolds and produced by Austin Luttrell. Medical economics and physicians practice are both members of the mjh life sciences, family, thank you. You.