Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / Talking 50 Years Of KISS with Author Martin Popoff [Episode 162]

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Talking 50 Years Of KISS with Author Martin Popoff [Episode 162] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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I think what happens with Kiss, and it's one of the amusing things about
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the Kiss fan base is we're really passionate, and we're big complainers, and
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we fight all the time about all sorts of things, and we love getting
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to complain. And I think you notice this with any fans of bands who
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are super dedicated and knowledgeable about a band. You go over a mountain and
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you come down the other side and realize that there actually is a lot to
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complain about us. We're totally booming rock and roll. I mean, I'll
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leave you. You're reading Little Hands says it's time to rock and roll.
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Rock band roll out a totally booked Welcome to Booked on Rock, the podcast
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for those about to read and rock. We're online at booked on rock dot
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com, where you can find every episode, along with links to listening platforms,
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exclusive videos, blogs, and the latest rock book releases. Kiss fans,
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there's a brand new book out now called Kiss at fifty and this is
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one you will want to get. Part of a fin nomenal at fifty series
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from Motor Books. This is a trip through fifty years of the hottest band
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in the world. It's beautifully packaged and produced in a hardcover format with stunning
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photos of the band on and off stage, much of them never before published
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images of memorabilia, including gig posters, seven inch picture sleeves, ticket stubs,
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and more. If there was ever a book that deserves something this visually
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stunning, it is Kiss. To add to the experiences veteran author Martin Popoff
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Martin page tribute to the band on the occasion of their fiftieth anniversary by curating
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and examining the fifty most significant milestones, starting with the band's formation in the
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early seventies, to their meteoric rise to fame by the end of the decade,
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to the departure of original members Peter Christ and Age Failey, to the
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roller coaster ride of the eighties, the massively successful nineties reunion of the original
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four, right through to the band's current end of the road tour. Martin
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is here to talk about all of it. To hear a playlist of Kiss,
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make sure you head over to the show notes page. Martin, Welcome
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back. We're talking Kiss at fifty fifty years. Is that hard to believe
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for you at time flies? Doesn't it? Yeah? It's pretty interesting.
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I mean this band I have a fondness for them because they've been around basically
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exactly as long as I've been sort of, you know, buying and conscious
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with rock and roll. So I definitely got the first Kiss album as a
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new release back in seventy four, so I would have been eleven years old.
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It's a little bit like Queen Elizabeth being our queen for my entire life
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and Rolling Stones being around for my entire life and the Beatles, although the
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Beatles, you know, they weren't around for most of the back end of
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my life, but the Stones have been there my entire life, which is
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kind of cool. I like that, and I have a fondness for that
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reason. But yeah, Kisses like that because seventy four, I was already
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on board as a new release. You're among those who were able to experience
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Kiss when they first hit the scene. Joined I got on the train maybe
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late seventies, when I was maybe seven or eight. What was that like
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getting at first album? Was it underwhelming? Was it like, who the
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hell are these guys? What was your reaction to when you first heard Kiss
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and saw them too, because they're so visual. It's a really interesting question
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because I remember us being not particularly sent insane by the makeup, so it
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was like, eh, okay, so here they are, they're wearing makeup.
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We're eleven years old looking at this and going okay whatever. But the
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music was at the heavy end of what we knew. So essentially at eleven
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years old, like I remember, there was some Sabbath and deep purple in
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our lives, there was some bto and Kiss sounded like even then we knew
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that they weren't as skilled as as our favorite UK bands, right, so
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it sounded a little bit like like Bachman and Overdrive. It sounded a little
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bit rounded off at the edges, just a bunch of chords. It's not
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particularly mobile or nimble. The production's a little bit soupy and dirty, but
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you know it was. It was fairly heavy because there really wasn't much heavy
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out at the time. So quickly it was immediately in there as one of
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our one of our favorite bands, but there was no reason to like vault
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them to the top of the list Casablanca. In the promotion for this book,
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Kiss at fifty, there's a quote in there it says the fortuitous signing
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to the Casablanca label, So how important was it that they signed to Casablanca.
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Was it the type of label, the only type of label that would
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have supported this type of band, because I would think labels were looking at
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them and saying, well, they're not There isn't enough musicianship there, the
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songs aren't good enough. But maybe Casablanca saw something different. Yeah, it's
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a good point. I mean, I think the whole thing with Casablanca almost
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feels more like, so this, this is Neil Bogert was forging out on
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his own. You know, before that there was Buddha Chemistuture Buddha. Right,
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So I think the main point here is that Kiss was just blindingly the
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priority at this small new label, and they liked to They didn't mind spending
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money. They had a beautiful little little logo thing. They they were good
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at promotion. They really kind of like risked it all on on Kiss sort
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of thing. Although you know, the deal wasn't that great out of the
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gates, but it all worked out and they you know, and they spent
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a lot of time with those guys, and they you know, they forged
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a really sort of close relationship. Later on you had Village people and Donna
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Summer and and so they had some other big things coming down the pipes.
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But Kiss was the big deal early on, So you wonder had they got
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on directly with a big label, they might have just been kind of a
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you know, another band of the stable, you know, albeit with the
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novelty to them, with this massive state show and the makeup and all that.
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But yeah, with Casablanket, it's almost like it's basically an indie.
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They're in there, so they're definitely getting a lot of attention, and you've
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got a good manager and Bill acoin and they're just trying all sorts of crazy
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stunts, you know, whatever they can do, cut whatever corners you can
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to make this band big sort of thing. So yeah, we'll never know.
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But had they gone on with got on with Warner Columbia or EMI or
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something like that, they might have just got lost in the shuffle, right,
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They would have been way down on the priority list. Yeah, that
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makes sense. And then in turn they save Casablanca because Casablanca is ready to
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go bankrupt. I think they're on their heels up against the ropes and then
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Kiss Alive comes out and fortunes changed. Now, this is another interesting thing
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that I want to get insight from you on because you were there when it
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all happened. That Kiss, a live album comes out. Well, now,
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all these years later, many many articles have been written now about the
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overdubbing of that show and it's not all live. I think the only thing
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that's live is Peter's drums. And does that matter to you? What did
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you think about it then? Has it changed since now knowing there was a
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lot of overdubbing, Yeah, I think it matters. I don't think about
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it too much, just because it doesn't matter in the grand scope of things,
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right, But you know, it's uh. But at the time,
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I remember it was a massive, big deal. When that came out,
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there was a lot of Like I say, there's a lot of promotion the
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rule there were always ads and circus and stuff. And the Kiss ads were
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interesting because they didn't say very much. They didn't come up with a bunch
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of hype texts. They just like gave you the picture of the album cover
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and said coming soon or whatever. Right, So there was something kind of
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like expensive and corporate about Kiss, or they fooled us that it was that
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way right when everything was run on a shoe string kind of thing. But
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no, when that album came out. It just felt like, even before
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it broke big, it looked like they were superstars. It was expensive looking,
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it was gatefold, It had those letters from the band in it and
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stuff. It had the amazing iconic album cover. But you're right, I
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mean many many albums are faked in a whole lot of ways. You know,
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there's some stuff has come to light about Van Halen Radio right now recently,
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and even Kiss Alive two, same sort of thing happens. So yeah,
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it does matter somewhat. But they did an amazing convincing job of making
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it sound like a super exciting live album. I think the other good thing
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about a live is it's one of those examples of albums where the reason it's
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doing doing well, or one of the reasons for it to exist, it's
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Raisin detra sort of thing. Is that all three of this studio albums are
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not great productions in one way or another. They're not terrible productions. Second
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one's certainly the most radical, third one is the most maybe polite, meat
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and clean. The first one is just generally pretty good, but it's maybe
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a little soupy and reverby, but alive. The performances soundedat eight you know,
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it was a It was a genius idea to leave the crowds in there
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to give that beatles, you know, girls screaming effect. So it sounded
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like a real crazy party. And I've told this story before, but one
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of our one of our crazy situations was so we would have been twelve years
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old. So what grade are you in? Seventh grade? Maybe at that
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point, yes, So, so we had a we were having one of
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our famous dances in my my parents' basement, you know, in our house's
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basement, right, wreck room, right, And my my buddy Forrest Houpe
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and I were scrounging around at the dump, as you do as a kid.
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And as we walked into so so our town dump and trail was in
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this, you know, between these two big sand dunes, and it was
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all sandy and everything, and there was a long sandy road leading into it,
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right, And so we're just walking up to up the road, and
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sitting there in the middle of the road is a nice pristine cardboard box full
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of like about three to four inches thick let me let me not exaggerate here,
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one too, maybe two inches thick of a pristine untouched April Wine,
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nineteen seventy four tour poster, right, and so it's the cover of the
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April Wine Live album, that really evil looking purple and black live shot of
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April Wine. It's basically that cover. And you know, I guess they
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were playing trail and someone was too lazy to put up all the posters or
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whatever, right, and they just threw it out. Right. So sitting
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there right at the entrance of the door, So we take this, Wow,
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this is awesome, you know. And so so we lined the entire
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rec room with these posters, ceiling the floor, cutting out for the receptacles.
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It looked incredible. I wish I had a picture of it. But
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so all around hundreds of these April Wine Tour posters set up for this party,
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right, And so we're having this dance, and we're dancing, you
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know, Elton John, you know, Crocodile Rock and all this stuff,
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right, and all of a sudden, Bobby Davidson bursts through the door,
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holding Aloft in his in his hand. I tell this story. I think
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this story is in the introduction to the book. Right, He's holding up
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a copy of Kiss Alive like he was the first to get it. It
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was downtown. It must have come in when he was rummaging around the record
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store and boom, so he runs in with this this kiss Alive. And
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I remember all of us dog piling on top of them and he and he's
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holding this record out so it doesn't get ruined, right, And we just
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ripped the cellophane off and started playing it on the stereo. And it turned
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into a kiss Alive listening party. And and we turn around to look up
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a few minutes later, and all the girls have gone home. Everybody's no
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one left in the room, right except for these these four or five boys
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sitting around looking at all the bits and pieces of kiss Alive and playing it
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so so kiss Alive like destroyed a Grade seven dance for us. That's a
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story, man. Yeah, it is awesome. I love it. I
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love it. Did you have a favorite member? I always loved Jeane the
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Demon, I still to this day. Yeah, you know. I I
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was a drummer and I eventually and I got to meet meet Peter Chris,
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and I for some reason had found I had my nineteen eighty one, you
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know, receipt from my big Pearl drum set that I bought, you know,
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because of my love of Peter. So Peter definitely as a drummer,
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and I thought he looked really cool. And I thought Ace looked a little
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feminine, and Paul looked a little feminine, and Jean was awesome, you
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know, he looked cool too, but Peter just had the the you know,
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Peter had the coolest look I think out of all of Did you ever
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dress up as Peter for Halloween? That's the question. I dressed up as
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Gene for Halloween. Okay, yeah, yeah, I don't know if I
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ever did Peter, but yeah, and we drew the kiss logo on everything
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and drew kiss members on everything. Well yes, yeah, Well, and
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it's interesting you mentioned about how all the girls walk out of the room they
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don't want to listen, and that's kind of what Bob Egmen was thinking when
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he takes over and he produces Destroyer right in nineteen seventy six is Destroyer?
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He wanted to like a song like Beth. He saw as the perfect way
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to expand their audience, get more of the female audience in there. And
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that's their first commercially successful studio album, thanks to Beth and Detroit Rock City
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and Shouted Out Loud. But it's interesting to hear many of the Kiss fans
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say that Destroyer was not the band's best. It's the follow up album Rock
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and roll Over that gets ranked at the top, or love Gun from seventy
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seven. Those were produced by Eddie Kramer, not the polus that Destroyer had.
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Are those albums superior to Destroyer or I would say no. Those have
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really gone down in my estimation in recent years. I don't think they're produced
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very well. The songs are really kind of simple and non ambitious. I
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definitely hear I still hear a lot of people saying Destroyer is the best,
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and I think it's the most sensible answer to say it's the best. We
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know it's the most ambitious. I would say it's got the most peaks and
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valleys. It's got strings and piano and all that stuff. But I think
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it also has got a thunder and kings of the nighttime world and Detroit Rock
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City's possibly the best Kiss song ever, and I always like shouted out Loud.
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I even think Flaming Youth is pretty good. Do you Love Me?
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He's cool on it as well, So I don't know. I I just
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think, uh, I just think for that early era of the band and
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then we can get into a big debate about you know, are they even
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better in the eighties? And is Revenge I've I've said Revenge is my favorite
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kiss out Oh yeah as well? So yeah, So Destroyer I think looking
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back and playing it against rock and Rock and roll Over and love Guns sound
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like really like weak sauce to me compared to uh to Destroyer, I think,
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Uh, I'm gonna have to go with Destroyer as the best one.
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Hotter and Hell gets a lot of kudos to and it deserves it. Hotter
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and Hell's a badass album. The tragedy with Hotter than Hell is the production.
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When I first got a copy of album, it was a burned CD
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and I remember thinking, oh, my friend just burned this on a very
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very low bit rate because it sounds so terrible. And then and then somebody
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said, here you go, here's the real thing, and they gave me
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the actual CD. I'm like, oh, it sounds the same. The
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drums, What was up with the drums? I mean that was intentional.
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I mean, have you hae. Richie Wise and Kenny Kerner right produced those
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first two and uh yeah, and they have the association with dust the band
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Dust with those great album covers, but they aren't heavy as the album covers.
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That's a big joke in the business, right, everybody talks about Dust
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that way. But yeah, you're right. It's almost like their Black Sabbath
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Born Again, right, or their Metallica and Justice for All. It's just
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a really radical, strange recording. As soon as you get used to it,
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just like listening to a bootleg, right, soon as you get used
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to it, you kind of forget, right, Ye, But it's just
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a weird production. I don't think it's a terrible production, it's just strange.
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Now Live Too I connected that more than a live one, just because
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when I became a fan, and my story was that there was a kid
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that lived down the street that was a huge Kiss fan and he listened to
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the album so much that he replaced them all and he just handed all of
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the old ones to me. He said, here you go. It was
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like the first three albums, and it was Kiss Alive and it was but
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a Live Too was on the top. And so that was the first thing
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I did, was open up the gatefold and I was like, whoa you
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know Dell with gene with a blood and He's sweating And I loved that album
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and I still do so I go to that one more than one only because
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of a personal connection there. But do you like a Live Too and the
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new songs like rocket Ride and all America larger than Life Than Life? Yeah?
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Yeah, so so that gatefold. I mean, I grew up in
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a small town in Canada, not close to any big towns except Spokane,
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so I didn't go to a lot of concerts as a kid. But that
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was one of the first concerts I ever went to because we were on a
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family vacation across the country. So I saw, I saw. I guess
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it was the Love Gun tour it was. I think it was July seventy
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seven, but Cheap Tricks certainly support of them in Montreal, So so got
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to see that show that you hold the gatefold up of that, so that
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was really cool. Yeah. I love Alive Too. I think it's a
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great selection of songs on there. I even like the album cover Strange Again,
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corporate album cover, Swing, the different you know, the broken up
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pictures of the band like that, and and it always bothered me that Alive
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has an exclamation mark and Alive Too doesn't have an exclamation mark. Yeah.
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But and I the studio side's great. I thought the studio side was as
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strong as any side on Rock and Roll, Over or Love Gun and Rocket
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Ride is clearly people always have that in their top five of kiss songs of
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all time. It's super heavy, really cool, dramatic. It's got that
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cool hook, you know, that ascending riff sort of thing in it,
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and All American Man is just a good, high quality, heavy Paul Stanley
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song on there. But this is when things are starting to fall apart.
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Peter, Chris and Ace Freely. We're not happy with the direction of the
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band, and they're living the rock and roll lifestyle to the excess. Paul
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and Jean are just the opposite. All business, no party, so they
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think, well, let's try to fix things. Let's give the two guys
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a solo album and we'll do our own solo albums. That's just to keep
18:12
things together. It doesn't really work those four solo records. Ace comes out
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on top. He's got the hit single in there, the cover of New
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York Groove. I do like some of Jean's I do like about three quotas
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of Paul's Peters. I just I really I'm just not digging any of it.
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Your thoughts on All four. I go along with what everybody sort of
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says, although you know, i'd say in recent years, for the first
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time ever, I'm slowly edging Paul's album ahead of Aces. Possibly. You
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know, they're talked about in the book a fair bit, and I think
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one of the sidebars has Ace talking about his solo album. But you know,
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clearly Aces is the heaviest and most kiss like, and that's the one
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that it's almost like a unanimous decision that that's the best one, right,
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But a lot of people will pick Paul's and I just like Paul's whole personality,
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and I think his personality comes out on that album, and it is
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fairly kissed like anyways. And then of course we know that Jeans is a
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little less kiss like, and there's more guest stars. It's like a big
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sort of glitzy, oh look who's all over this album sort of thing,
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but it is still somewhat kiss like and it's enjoyable. And then Peter's,
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Yeah, Peter, you really wonder, and you listen to all his solo
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material and stuff as well, and you really wonder, you know, you
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want to ask the guy like, were you living a lie and Kiss?
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Because obviously you didn't like that kind of music very much, right, I
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mean, you didn't want to do any of it on your solo album.
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But then a lot of people have the opinion that, you know, the
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solo album is where you do step out and do something totally different. So
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that's a whole philosophy as well. But yeah, Peters is really hard to
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listen to because it's just so it's just so poppy and yacht rocky. Right.
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Having said that, though Peter Chris underrated drummer, or is it fair
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he got He's got a lot of hits towards the end of his run with
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Kiss just because of his substance abuse. But at his best, what do
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you think of Peter Chris? Who knows? Right? I mean, I
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I that's a great question, because who knows how good a drummer he is?
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He is? On the evidence we never kind of got to find out,
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right, you know, Kiss had these pretty simple songs. I don't
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know if if it's a if it's a case of the whip is being cracked
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or whatever, and they're and they're saying keep it simple, and he wanted
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to play more, but we don't really hear very much from him. Even
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his drum solos are really rudimentary, Like they're really simple and and just just
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hooky and catchy and and and meant kind of for the novice, right or
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or meant to be entertaining for someone who might be a novice, right,
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So we never got to know, you know, he he he professes to
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be come from a you know, a gene croup of school and I love
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jazz and all this stuff. We never really got to hear that ever either.
20:52
So yeah, it's it's really kind of a big question mark. But
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uh yeah, suffice to say on on the court at evidence, he's a
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pretty simple player. The book Done Rock Podcasts will be back after this.
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I'm talking to author Martin Popoff, who's on the podcast to talk about his
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latest book, Kiss at Fifty, which is out now and you can get
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it wherever books are sold, but also go to Martin Popoff dot com to
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get a signed copy. What about the merchandising, Ason Peter, They felt
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that Paul and Jean were going way too far with that. The lunchboxes,
21:26
the comic books, the action figures, they catered too much of the kids.
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I think it's those kids, including myself at that time when they got
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older, they helped pack the stadiums in nineteen ninety six when they reunited,
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So I think in the long run it paid off. What is your take
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on the merchandising too far? Yeah, that's a good way of putting it,
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you know, I don't. I don't have any ambivalence or anger or
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think it's a great thing either. It's I'm kind of in the middle.
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It was there. I bought a fair bit of it, but not all
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of it. Later years, I certainly didn't really care. I was part
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of the Kiss Army right away, soon as you know, got that little
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order form. I believe most of us joined, or I can't remember the
22:06
timeline exactly, but I'm pretty sure I joined off of what was inside of
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Destroyer. I think in there it is how you learned about it. But
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the Cardboard Gun that came out and Love Gun, Love Gun had that great
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ideas, yeah, yeah, idea, and the solo albums had the interlocking
22:21
posters with the puzzle pieces they all went together to It was very simple and
22:26
strange artwork, almost like you know, it was meant to be sort of
22:30
rude and crude kind of artwork. But yeah, the merchandising was all there.
22:33
I mean, I don't think as a kid we ever thought they were
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very mercenary. I mean it was just cool that all this stuff was out
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there, so never never thought of it in a negative sense as a kid.
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You know, as time goes on, I suppose you think of it
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a little more that way. Yeah, ninety six, I just looked back
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to those times. Wememb have the jigsaw puzzle for kiss Destroyer brought back great
22:55
memories and I was also a fan of Kisses music, but there was that
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emotional connection I made that again. I think in the long run it paid
23:02
off. And the other thing is that once they took the makeup off,
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you can't ever go back to what I think maybe the best publicity move of
23:10
them all, which is to never know what they really looked like. That
23:14
was really the mystery of that. I think that was so important. Yeah,
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that was cool. You know you can picture in your head, they're
23:21
burned into your memory, the shots of them covering their face up or with
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sunglasses on or whatever. You know, the couple of shots that you saw
23:29
on cream or whatever coming out of a restaurant with sack. Yeah. Yeah,
23:33
so yeah, so when they did that, Boy did they ever do
23:36
that because the cover of Lick It Up is just so absolutely as plain as
23:40
you can imagine. Right, It's just here they are in a white background,
23:41
right, you know, and even the text there's no color in the
23:45
text, right, It's just says kiss lick it up. Right. So
23:48
so yeah, so that was pretty interesting seeing what they looked like. It's
23:51
yeah, they looked cool. But of course two of the guys were gone
23:52
by then too. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to ask
23:56
you about when we get to that. Just before we get to there,
23:57
though, let's backtrack a little bit and just get back to seventy nine where
24:02
they put out Dynasty and then Unmasked. Now, Dynasty has the huge hit
24:07
I Was Made for Loving You. But did they alienate their audience with that
24:11
single or are you a fan of that song? Yeah? I'm somewhat of
24:15
a fan of that song. I think it's a pretty good quality disco song
24:18
with good chord changes and stuff in it. But the thing about that album
24:22
is it really made people think the album was a discouye album, and it's
24:27
really almost as heavy as Love Gun and Rock and Roll Over. It's not
24:33
appreciably lighter than those two albums right when you play it in total, and
24:37
the production's pretty good on it, so it's a good quality Kiss album.
24:41
A lot of people rate it pretty highly in the catalog. But I remember
24:45
as kids, Yeah, definitely it was a turnoff, and Unmasked was a
24:48
turnoff. You know, the new wave of British heavy metals starting. By
24:52
the time you get to Unmasked, there was all sorts of super exciting,
24:55
really heavy stuff out there that Kiss was, and Kiss was plainly not anticipating
25:00
in it, especially for Unmasked. They came back with Creatures of the Night,
25:03
mind you. But but even at that point it just seemed like there
25:07
were a lot of younger baby bands doing heavy metal a lot better than Kiss,
25:11
and they were just now kind of like the old the old grandfathers.
25:15
You pat on the head and say, yeah, good boy, thanks for
25:18
putting out this Creature of the Night album. It's okay, haha. You
25:21
know, but look, Angel Witch, Iron Maiden, you know, you
25:25
know already you've got genius albums from Judas Priests, you got Sad Wing,
25:29
Sin after Sin, staying Class hell bent for leather. I mean, I
25:33
mean just absolutely there was Van Halen was out. There was so much amazing,
25:37
amazing good music by that time, and Kiss was going the other direction.
25:41
Yeah, think about Unmasked and that poppy sound up against Van Halen and
25:45
Van Haleen two and Women and Children First came out the same years on Mass
25:48
nineteen eighty and I barely remember listening to Unmasked. I had it. It
25:52
was one of the albums that my friend down the street gave to me,
25:55
but I don't think I listened to it more than once. Later in college,
25:59
my roommate had it on CD and I listened to and I thought,
26:02
boy, Peter sounds awesome on this just al them and you find out it's
26:06
Anton fig on drums. But I like that Peter. I mean. One
26:11
of the amazing things about this band that I always say, and I always
26:15
remind people of, is they had four lead singers, four great voices,
26:23
and somewheers around three great singers. So four great voices, three great singers.
26:30
So so Ace Freely wasn't the greatest singer, but I still loved his
26:33
voice, you know, he was He was always a little flat or sharp
26:37
or whatever, hollery, but you still loved them. It was still charming,
26:41
right. But but Peter had a great voice and was a great singer.
26:45
Paul had a great voice and was a great singer. Jeane had a
26:48
great voice and was a great singer. Do you like anything on Unmasked?
26:52
Not particularly, you know, it's it is definitely poppy. They they they
26:57
try some interesting things on it, and it's almost like with with some bands
27:02
like this, you're almost happy that they're trying something different, so it's kind
27:04
of cool. And then and then even The Elder, I wasn't much of
27:08
a fan of either. Okay, see, I was gonna ask now,
27:11
because you are the contrarian. I was thinking maybe you were gonna like something.
27:15
I mus it from the Elder because I can. I'm gonna defend it
27:18
a little bit. It is the most bizarre album of Kiss No Question,
27:22
concept album, strange, the first featuring her Car by the Way, poor
27:26
a Car. He's like, this is my first gig, I gotta do
27:30
this, but I will defend the songs the Oath, Dark Light, Mister
27:33
Blackwell, Escape from the Island, and I I do like that if they
27:37
were just standalone songs on a Kiss album. I think they would be great.
27:41
Of course, the rest, you know, I'm Joss the you know,
27:45
all that stuff is like, what the hell is this? Is there
27:48
anything on that album you like? And yeah, I like all the same
27:52
songs you Okay, World without Heroes is on that too, right, it
27:55
is on there? Yeah, I hate that that was the single. Yeah,
27:57
and they have jin crying video. Yeah, I hate that song.
28:02
But yeah, and the rest of all those ones you mentioned are are definitely
28:06
very cool. I thought the production was pretty good, the productions you're you
28:08
know, it's interesting that the production is moving into even though it's bob Ezra
28:12
and the production is actually moving into this interesting not great drum sound, but
28:18
everything sound sounds pretty good together, sound that you get on Lick it Up
28:23
and Animalize and even not so much Asylum because Asylum sounds really good to me.
28:29
So it's it's funny this this fits in almost that category of us wishing
28:33
for concept albums from some of our favorite bands, and when they deliver them,
28:37
you're not happy that they did. And I'm starting to feel a little
28:41
bit that way of Rush with Clockwork Angels, and I certainly felt that way
28:45
with Deal and Magica and is seventh Son of a seventh son a concept album
28:49
or not, you know, kind of but it's almost like these bands that
28:55
hadn't done them, when they do them, you kind of wish they had.
28:57
So the band follows up with the best of called Killers. Four new
29:00
songs on there, I'm a Legend, Tonight, down on your Knees and
29:03
Know Where to Run, Partners in Crime, good songs. They're back to
29:07
that hard rocking, old school Kiss sound, but by then most Kiss fans
29:11
had checked out. They're bringing Vinnie Vincent on guitar, and we get Creatures
29:15
of the Night nineteen eighty two, hard heavy album, again largely ignored because
29:21
a lot of the fans checked out, But years later, looking back on
29:23
that album, a lot of Kiss fans say it's one of the best,
29:26
maybe the best. What are your thoughts on Creatures of the Night? I
29:30
thought Creatures was a really good album. Again, it's got this not crazy
29:36
about the drum performance or the drum sound on it. Really that's what people
29:40
most love and the applaud the drums, the big sound, the massive bottom.
29:44
Yeah, it's a version of big sounds. It's a kind of strange,
29:48
restrained, corporate cloistered, big Sound, claustrophobic, big sound. I
29:53
don't know, but it's but it's a pretty heavy album and definitely you know,
29:57
quite into it. Yeah, war Machine in the all of those I
30:00
look at pretty similarly now basically Creatures, Lick it Up and Animalize I look
30:08
at as a trio almost. I kind of like the direction that they're they're
30:12
going on it. They're basically inventing hair metal. I mean, people don't
30:17
give them enough credit for how enthusiastically they participated in hair metal. They were
30:22
the most hair metal looking guys of the entire hair metal scene with their get
30:26
ups, their costumes right, and the music was absolutely squarely hair metal.
30:30
So they're like diving right in and literally helping invent this genre. You know,
30:34
we give credit to Van Halen, Aerosmith, Motley Crub being in early,
30:38
but Kiss is a huge part of this thing. They're putting together the
30:42
rule book with with Lick It Up and Animalize into Asylum and then they're totally
30:48
fully participating with Crazy Nights and Hot in the Shade there. They're absolutely right
30:52
in there like a dirty shirt and doing well. You know, these records
30:56
are going gold and they're they're out there playing. You know, apparently the
31:00
tours are not doing so great, they're losing money here and there or whatever
31:03
because they're still trying to keep as big as show as possible. But that
31:07
whole era, I appreciate it. It's one of these funny things where you
31:11
go at the time everybody groused about it, right, but later on it
31:15
and when you look back at the career, it gives the career contours and
31:19
everybody, I'm sure the band thinks this as well, and most of the
31:22
fans think it. They're like, I'm glad this happened. It's pretty interesting.
31:26
It's pretty interesting that they kept working, kept making records and putting them
31:30
out despite you know, some of the attention going away and having only middling
31:36
success. But we all look back and and it just gives us something to
31:41
talk about. Let's talk about that unmasking in eighty three now, because I
31:44
think they waited too long. Yeah, it was dramatic, but like you
31:48
said, it was half the guys right, half as dramatic. Since the
31:51
official unmasking on MTV didn't include asan Peter, did they wait too long?
31:55
Yeah? Well I suppose so MTV starts in the summer of eighty one.
31:59
We're already up in eighty three, but you know, it was it was
32:01
good timing in terms of there was a lot of excitement around this new genre
32:07
of metal happening, right, so this is the time of Twist's Sister's Ascendants,
32:12
but definitely Quiet Riot and Dawkin and Great White. Who else is in
32:15
their rat, you know, right at that time. So it's like a
32:20
nice coming out party to say we're going to be part of this whole thing.
32:23
And you know, also the Old Guard is doing well at this time
32:29
too, so it's a good time for Kiss to be back and making the
32:31
news. So you've got Ozzie doing well. Sabbath is starting to bust up
32:36
at this point, but Ozzie's doing well, Judas Priests and Scorpions are doing
32:39
well at this time, so Kiss is kind of part of that whole thing.
32:44
Blewister Cults on the Descendants, Aerosmith's kind of taking a little time off,
32:49
Ted Nugent's on the Descendants, but some of them are are are,
32:52
you know, having some of the best years of their career. So yeah,
32:55
it's kind of cool. And MTVS really start to have a lot of
32:58
power At this point, this is like the golden era of MTV eighty three
33:02
eighty four, right, So yeah, it's good not her brought attention to
33:06
that album. Look it up. I mean, if they had done it
33:08
on Creatures of the Night, what would have that album done commercially? I
33:13
think it would have done much better. It would have brought more attention to
33:15
it. But yeah, hey, they did it, and it was the
33:16
right move, I think ultimately, because it's also sets up the reunion in
33:21
later years, but before we get to revenge. Because you were saying you
33:23
love that album eighties kiss best album of that decade, and what's the low
33:29
point your least favorite from that decade. I have a real soft spot for
33:32
Asylum. I think it's the best recorded and it's got some really great pall
33:37
type songs like Tears Are Falling, King of the Mountain. The opener is
33:40
good on that as well. I just think that's Who Wants to Be Lonely
33:44
a really good one on there. So I think that that one, to
33:46
me is the most seriously well put together one. It just sounds like the
33:52
most ambitious, best fidelity. The low point would be Crazy Nights for me.
33:58
I feel like not a great recording, too long, too much filler.
34:04
I think I think it's a it's a I used to put down hot
34:07
in the shade. But I think that was a good, good comeback.
34:09
I think, uh, the ambition is back for that one. Uh.
34:14
The in the in the first three are are just a little, a little
34:16
juvenile. I'm happy about them. I'm glad they're there and it's cool.
34:20
And I was excited about Kiss at the time, and it's got some great
34:23
hits. But yeah, I'd go with Asylum as the best one. All
34:25
right, smashes, thrashes and hits. Let's put the X and sex and
34:30
you make Me in parentheses rock hard, that's and that was a big hit
34:36
album. I I love, I love this whole thing with this. It's
34:39
almost like a neat podcast episode. Maybe I've even done one on this.
34:43
But the unsung greatest hits albums that do really well for bands, right,
34:47
you know, and great Gonzos, Aerosmith with those what are they called classics,
34:52
right, classics classics, I mean huge sellers, right, So so
34:57
that that album really that was that was a good idea that that Kiss had
35:01
that album come out. What did you think of Eric Carr singing on Beth.
35:06
I'm not crazy about it. I think Tommy's a better, better singer
35:08
later on. And again, just something strange about his drumming style. It
35:14
seemed like like shreddy. It seemed like over the top, but it but
35:17
it never seemed to fit into these Kiss type songs. And and again they
35:22
always gave him a weird production treatment, which is which is kind of odd.
35:27
But yeah, Kiss tried to do these shreddy songs, these up tempo
35:30
songs, you know, over the top. We used to call it ott,
35:34
which was a term you saw on Kerrang early on, right, and
35:37
it never quite worked. Van Halen was never good at those either. With
35:40
Beth though. I'm assuming that they didn't get permission from Peter to put Beth
35:45
on the smashes, thrashers and hits, and that's why they had Aircar singing
35:49
it. I don't know, I'm just I don't remember I I to me,
35:52
it just seems like it would be a more of a great business move.
35:55
It's it's kind of a neat idea. Right. Yeah, let's get
35:59
to Revel nineteen ninety two. What is it that stands out for you about
36:02
this album? Why do you feel it's their best of the non makeup era.
36:06
Boy, I think it's just a first of all, it might be
36:09
the best sounding Kiss album ever. I mean, I think the production's great.
36:14
It's just really tough and powerful but still very correct and expensive sounding.
36:19
So that's kudos to Bob Ezrin on that one. And I think the songs
36:23
are like really ambitious, but they're still funny and tongue in cheek and kiss
36:28
like they haven't they haven't, you know, succumbed to any trends at all,
36:32
Like Kiss, Kiss went went along with a few trends along the way,
36:36
and that's fine. I mean, I think Carnival Souls is really good,
36:40
Okay, yeah, but this album we'll speak to that in a bit.
36:44
Yeah, But this album, I just think it's just a really high
36:46
quality I did my audio podcaster History and five Songs with Martin pop Off.
36:52
I did a I did an episode called Go to Vancouver and Try Harder.
36:57
Now this isn't a Go to Vancouver album, but what it is is is
37:00
a try Harder album where once grunge happens, anybody who's still doing hair metal
37:07
has to try really hard to make a super good quality album. If they're
37:12
going to stay in their genre, and that's when you actually get some of
37:15
the masterpieces of the whole hair metal era. Is is ninety two ninety three,
37:20
and I think this is just the best, the best version of Kiss
37:24
from Creatures of the Night through to Revenge. I think Revenge is the best
37:29
one of that version of Kiss. And a lot of people will say too
37:32
that Gene the songs fit him better, the songs they're more of a fit
37:37
of his demon character. Plus he looked he's some to look cool again,
37:40
because he was kind of lost with that look throughout the eighties and he didn't
37:44
It just was never really He's never really got into a groove and never felt
37:47
comfortable with that look. But here he's looking demonarch again. So I think
37:52
there's that to it. But also we don't want to leave out Bruce Culic.
37:54
How important is Bruce Kulic to the band in the eighties, right up
37:59
through the Revenge era because he was a loyal foot soldier. He was he
38:05
never caused any issues. Vinnie Vincent caused problems. They had problems with what
38:09
I'm trying to think of, who are the other guitarists that Mark Saint John
38:13
Ark Saint John. You know, I don't think he has a style of
38:16
his own. Particularly, I don't think any of those solos, any of
38:21
that shredding type stuff. There's there's not a lot of musicality to too much
38:24
of that that goes on there. I still feel like the strength of personality
38:30
is in Paul and Jean in that band all through that era anyways, and
38:34
those are the guys you think of as projecting personality. I'm sure if Bruce
38:37
was allowed to write more, he would have done great. We would have
38:40
got, you know, better songs out of them, and better songs period.
38:45
Maybe, but we'll never know. But as a guitarist, I can't
38:50
think of you know, he certainly didn't have. This is my characteristic.
38:53
This is the thing I do more than other guitarists, like a personality.
38:57
A lot of guitarists don't have a personality, and a few do. And
39:00
I think he's one that that, you know, personally, I don't think
39:05
he added a lot to it in terms of personality when when he you know,
39:09
took his moment to do a solo. All right, so let's talk
39:12
about Carnival of Souls. Why do you like this album? I don't know
39:15
anybody who does. I know people who like a few songs, but you
39:17
like the album as a whole. Definitely. I was mostly on board when
39:22
any of my hair metal bands tried to do something a little grungy. I
39:27
generally like those albums, so it was cool. I remember thinking, Ah,
39:30
it's neat that they're trying something different. It's dark, it's it's you
39:34
know, the song structures are not the normal thing we've We've already got seven
39:38
or eight albums of Kiss doing hair metal, Like, sure, why not
39:43
try something different. I don't like the album cover. It seemed like a
39:46
little rushed in, you know, the carnival souls, the you know,
39:50
the the sessions or whatever it was called. Right, I wish it was
39:53
was just a straightforward Kiss album, And and it wasn't treated. It didn't
39:58
have this narrative where we earned the laundry, you know, the dirty laundry
40:01
of well, we're not really doing this, we're not really promoting this.
40:05
We moved onto this, you know, reunion thing or whatever. So the
40:07
timing and all that was terrible. Yeah, yeah, well and it's least
40:12
for a grunge album too, right, And they released it after the buzz
40:15
of the Ace and Peter coming back to the band. Yeah, right,
40:20
that was. They put it out after that, so we were I think
40:22
at that. Yeah, it's like a lame duck president in a way,
40:25
right right, we were all looking forward to this reunion and it's like,
40:29
oh, by the way, here's carnivalo Souls and Yeah from a promotional standpoint,
40:34
it didn't stand much of a chance anyway. Yeah, Yeah, I
40:37
thought it was pretty cool. I thought the songs. Songs were good on
40:39
it. I didn't mind it was a little darker down, you know.
40:43
I know they they kind of fought about direction on it or whatever. But
40:45
production's good. So yeah, I'm fine with it. The book done.
40:51
Rock Podcasts will be back after this. The reunion. Now we get to
40:57
that, the ninety six reunion, Paul Gas and Peter, did you feel
41:00
that day would eventually come and did you expect it to do the huge numbers
41:04
that it ended up doing. It sold out Tiger Stadium in like what four
41:07
hours or something. Yeah, I mean I suppose I expected it to do
41:10
the huge numbers. I mean that's great. Unfortunately, the album was a
41:15
disaster. It was not a good album. I can't think of anybody who
41:20
likes it. It's got ten songs on it. You quickly learned that the
41:23
playing was all compromised. There was just you know, a little bit ace
41:27
and a little bit of Peter and all that kind of thing, and you
41:30
know, guest musicians and guest writers and stuff like that. The songs just
41:34
were not very good. The production wasn't even very good, you know,
41:37
it was soupy and reverby. It's a little bit like it's a bit like
41:44
when I think about the Stooges trying to make two more studio albums, right,
41:47
It's like, how do you capture the magic of being a chaotic,
41:52
punky, dirty you know, we're all on Heroin's sort of band, and
41:57
you're trying to make a new album that It's like, well, how do
42:00
we make an album kind of for all intents and purposes sound bad on purpose?
42:05
Right? So Kiss has that problem where they're saying, how do we
42:07
make a simple, unambitious, stupid album on purpose? Right when when like
42:14
so much rock history has gone by. I guess I guess what I'm saying
42:19
is certain bands they've got a past that seems to be an inviting thing to
42:24
try to reproduce Kisses Past is really of its time, and it's simple,
42:30
and it was for twelve year olds and all this kind of stuff. Right,
42:34
it's like, so, how do we do that again and make it
42:37
sound good and not sound stupid. Instead, it just came out sounding stupid.
42:42
Yeah, that was their opportunity to go back to the original days of
42:45
all four guys writing the songs together, recording the songs together. But I
42:50
believe that the only song that features all four is Into the Void. I
42:54
don't think Psycho Circus. I don't think is the case. That title,
43:00
you know, it reminds me of the whole Monster Magnet, Zodiac Mind Warp,
43:05
Sonic Temple, Sound Garden, like like Psycho Circus. It's like,
43:10
well, nobody really thinks Kisses Psycho in any way. I mean they think
43:14
they're a circus, I suppose, But those two words together are kind of
43:17
dumb. The album cover is pretty good, you know, with the reticulated
43:22
thing going on or whatever. Right, So the cover was okay, but
43:27
just that title was just it's a bit negative too, having Psycho in there,
43:30
so it's a bit like uncheery and then it's put with circus. Yeah,
43:36
it just seemed like one of these one of these nineties smush two words
43:40
together titles. The touring numbers still continue to do very well, but then
43:45
they start to kind of peter out and no pun intended. As and Peter
43:47
both eventually out Paul and Jean, bringing back Eric singer. This time he's
43:52
in the cat makeup. Tommy Thair from the band Black and Blue, who
43:54
worked in various roles for the band since nineteen ninety four, took over for
43:59
eight or a spaceman makeup. This is after they said they were done in
44:02
two thousand and one, two studio albums, two thousand and nine, Sonic
44:07
Boom, twenty twelve Monster, several successful tours. They still have plenty of
44:12
fans, but some of the longtime fans checked out once again, a lot
44:15
of them pissed off. Two guys are in Asent, Peter's makeup and costumes.
44:20
Should Kiss have called the quits and no one? Or are you cool
44:22
with what they decided to do? More? No? So, this is
44:25
what I think about that era. I mean what I just said about Psycho
44:29
Circus, like trying to go back to this past that's hard to go back
44:34
to and you can't really do it. I think both Sonic Boom and Monster
44:37
are the right balance of value for your money ambition but still having a retro
44:45
sound so to me. To me, what they do with those albums is
44:50
they make a smart, hip knowing, self aware version of the best of
44:57
their eighties and seventies sound, their eighty sounds. So I have no problem
45:01
with both Sonic Boom and Monster. I think they're both good albums. They're
45:06
both the recordings are fine on them. Eric Singer is a great drummer.
45:10
Tommy Thayer is a great addition to the band, so I think. And
45:15
given that Kiss is kind of like this corrupted corporation y sort of thing where
45:20
there's all these people helping out and blah blah blah all the time, there's
45:22
no reason that Psycho Circus couldn't have been exactly as good as Sonic Boom and
45:28
Monster. I think both those albums are fine. But I think what happens
45:30
with Kiss, and it's one of the amusing things about the Kiss fan base
45:35
is we're really passionate, and we're big complainers, and we fight all the
45:38
time about all sorts of things, and we love getting to complain. And
45:43
I think you notice this with any fans of bands who are super dedicated and
45:46
knowledgeable about a band. You go over a mountain and you come down the
45:51
other side and realize that there actually is a lot to complain about, right
45:54
so, so you know as you climb them out and it's like, oh,
45:58
we love everything, don't you? Dare you insult anything about Kiss?
46:00
And then as soon as you like, all the curtains are open and you
46:05
learn everything about all the different personalities. There's a lot to complain about.
46:07
And I feel like people really complain unjustly about both of those albums. I
46:13
think both of them are really good albums, and like I say, I
46:15
think what they discovered is is a way to be old Kiss but still still
46:21
offer value for the money and be very ambitious about it and put together just
46:25
good quality songs. There's not a lot of crappy filler type songs on either
46:30
of those albums, and more than half of Psycho Circus with only ten songs
46:37
sounds like how did this make the cut? By the way, in your
46:39
book Kiss at fifty, there's a picture of you with that lineup. Where
46:45
is this picture from? It's you rocking your thin Lizzie shirt and there's Gene
46:49
pointing at you with that you're very handsome, successful, charming man look on
46:52
his face? Right, what's that quotit? He always says you're very charming?
46:55
Oh yeah, I don't think you said it, but the point and
47:00
putting thess his sunglasses on somebody as is something. Yeah, so its and
47:07
it's and he charms you, right, he's a charming guy. He charms
47:09
you over. I mean, I like listening to Jane talk about politics even
47:13
I mean, unfortunately he was born in Israel. But if he wasn't,
47:15
I I'd be Gene for president, you know. I mean, I think
47:19
Jean would would make a great politician. He's just a smart, sensible guy.
47:23
He's just a well rounded, sensible dude. I like him. So
47:27
where was this photo taken with all four of the guys? So yeah,
47:30
so what happened was Stanley and Jean. Yeah, it was so a label
47:35
buddy mine. Dave McMillan invited me. It was like, whoa, this
47:38
is so cool. He said, come come to the Monster launch party here
47:42
in Toronto. Right, So I remember I was so stressed out getting there
47:45
because it was right in Russha to go right across town in Toronto, which
47:50
is brutal, and it was pouring rain, so I thought I was going
47:53
to be late, and it's like, come on, come on, you
47:55
know, it's hard to get to. But once I was there, it's
47:59
like there's beers, there's all of Kiss. You know. I had some
48:04
things to sign, and fortunately I was not, you know, timid enough
48:07
that I did pull this stuff out and got I got to talk, you
48:12
know, with everybody, you know, Eric Paul, you know, Tommy,
48:15
got my black and Blue stuff signed by Tommy. So it was just
48:20
a great party once I got to relax about the Harry drive to get there,
48:24
right. Yeah, it was just it was at a suburban recording studio
48:30
and they did a whole they did, you know, they played it and
48:32
they had they had the Monster you know album flats that were handing out to
48:37
everybody, and like I say, free Booze and and a lot industry buddies
48:42
of mine were. There was not a big party. It was like literally,
48:45
I don't know, might have been thirty five people, maybe forty people
48:50
something like that. But yeah, all the Kiss guys just hanging out talking.
48:52
It was it was absolutely amazing And as I look back, it was
48:57
one of the greatest, you know, hangs that I've ever gone to do
49:00
is being being a rock journalist. And they were all super nice guys and
49:04
attentive and just just charming dudes. And yeah, I had a great time
49:09
at that party. Because of YouTube, everybody's analyzing every everybody nowadays. But
49:15
Paul, they say, you know, his lip syncing. Are people being
49:19
a little too rough on him? Or is it because he used to talk
49:22
about how you should go out at the top of your game, and they're
49:23
saying, well, he should have gone he should have gone out a while
49:27
ago. What do you think of that? Are you for or against a
49:30
singer singing to a track live? Are you okay with that? Yeah?
49:34
No, I'm not okay with that. I've never liked any of that whole
49:37
idea. You know, I almost sometimes liken it too, or what I
49:42
like in this analogy to that I use often. I don't like the whole
49:45
outside songwriter thing. I've never liked that. And Kisses guilty of that as
49:51
well, but I always liking it to you know, Aaron Rodgers doing a
49:55
pre NFL game interview and saying, by the way, I'll be playing Tom
50:00
Brady today. You know Tom is not even in the building, but I'm
50:04
going to be representing the uh you know, the character of Tom Brady today.
50:07
Right. It's like, literally, this is your artwork and you're not
50:12
on it and you didn't write it. I mean that drives me nuts,
50:15
right heart never let yeah, never liked that idea, but so so yeah,
50:22
And analogous to that is this whole live thing. And I've always wondered
50:27
and I've asked rock stars this all the time because this is this is my
50:30
bias. Obviously, it's not theirs. Like a they love performing. They
50:35
want to make money too, and you know, we often find out that
50:38
there's not as much money as we think in being a rock star, so
50:44
so we we tend to forget that and think, you know, well,
50:46
this is their bread and butter, going playing live. You know, that's
50:50
why Ben's continue to play live. So so there is that aspect of it
50:53
as well. But they love performing, you know. We know Ozzie's whole
50:57
pathology about I mean, is it's his reason to exist is to play live.
51:01
Right. We blame Sharon, but it's like Ozzie would would wither away
51:07
if he if he wasn't able to perform, right, So I get that,
51:10
but yeah, just the whole thing of having fake tracks, I don't
51:15
you know, you literally are saying, come see us play live, and
51:20
we're not doing it right, So it's such a lie, right, So
51:23
yeah, I've never liked that, And so yeah, I guess what I
51:25
was getting at is I wish more rock stars would take the approach that because
51:30
I couldn't care less about seeing most bands live ever again, I wish more
51:35
rock stars would realize again my bias. But I wish Kiss would just hole
51:40
up and make records and most of my favorite bands rather than rather than sully
51:45
the reputation by playing live or even going and playing live. I wish bands
51:52
would take the fact that, you know, decades from now, years from
51:55
now, when you're long and dead sort of thing, it's your it's your
52:00
artwork that's going to live on those records. But having said that, I
52:04
guess with YouTube, your live presence is going to live on too. But
52:08
I just think, I just think the most important thing a band can do
52:12
is their records. What do you think is next for Kiss? The end
52:15
of the road tour, It's going to have to eventually come to a close.
52:17
Only because time waits for no one. Do you think a kiss two
52:22
point zero will happen? Will they find four new guys to keep the kiss
52:24
name going into the future? And so is that okay? That's yeah?
52:29
I love that. I love that idea. I mean, I I've done
52:30
a whole podcast episode on this too. How Lynyrd Skinnerd is is literally the
52:36
living embodiment of this, right, you know, you think of the Grateful
52:39
Dad, although they didn't really do it because they kind of retired the name
52:43
right or the Alman Brothers or whatever. But Lyonard Skinnerd's a hilarious example of
52:47
this. How you know people are just dying left and right, but as
52:52
long as you've replaced that lead singer with someone who's valid and you know he's
52:57
one generation earlier or whatever. But I don't want them to replace all four
53:00
of them at once. But I would like to see Gene retire, set
53:06
off by Paul retiring, and then Tommy, although Tommy's not that young a
53:10
guy, right, But I would like to see Tommy stay for much longer
53:15
and Eric stay for much longer. And then the replacements have to be really
53:19
really key, proper replacements, right, And to me when you do this,
53:24
you want you know, I almost think they should go to the deep
53:28
serious fans, you know, and the fans that are forty and fifty and
53:31
sixty years old and ask them who they think should replace them, because I
53:36
think I always feel like these replacements should be people that have as much stature
53:42
as you like. The Pantera thing is a perfect example. Like those They
53:45
did a perfect job of replacing those guys, and I would love to see
53:50
Pantera make records right. So interesting though to see Tommy and Eric Singer are
53:54
still there without Gene and Paul. I was just imagine it. If they're
53:59
going to do it just a clean slate, let's just get four new guys
54:00
from from like the best tribute bands out there. No, I want to
54:06
see. I want to see guys almost as famous as successful as Kiss,
54:09
but guys who are between the ages of fifty and sixty, so legends.
54:15
I want to see two legends in there. So those guys last for another
54:20
five or six or seven years and then they're gone, and you know,
54:23
and at that point they've hopefully made some records, because that's the other thing.
54:29
I couldn't care less about any version of Kiss playing live. I just
54:32
want to see them make records. I want to see that new band make
54:36
records. So that's that's how you become valid. I think in trying to
54:39
do this replacement thing is and you're writing, right, you're in there writing.
54:44
So I don't know, I've never thought about it off the top of
54:46
my head who that would be. But Jean son can step in Jean Sons.
54:52
Well, you know, that's the other way of doing it. Like
54:52
that's how you you know, you got your Jason Bonham and your John Bonham,
54:57
You've got your Johnny Van Sant and you and your your Ranie vans An't
55:00
right, can't put Wolfgang in there. He's not going to do that.
55:04
Well, Wolfgang's kind of a decent idea. Actually, yeah, he won't
55:08
do it. Yeah, but I always thinking Wolfgang, you know, Wolfgang
55:12
and Van Halen. That's a super valid thing. But even Wolfgang and Kiss
55:15
would make sense, right right, right? Dad wanted to be in Kiss,
55:17
remember that that was the rumor. Yeah, yeah, but you know
55:21
all of your you know, I could see a Metallica member and Kiss maybe
55:24
or something. So I want someone who's got some gravitas and some weight to
55:29
them. By the way before I forget too. Are you hoping? Does
55:31
it matter to you? Should As and Peter at least be there for the
55:35
very last show. It's going to be at Madison Square Garden. Ah.
55:37
There's so much bad blood that everybody knows anyways that it wouldn't really feel sincere.
55:43
But yeah, sure, of course, yeah, I think they should.
55:45
They should all be part of it, for sure. Will it happen
55:47
though? Apparently not? I mean, all all I keep hearing is them
55:52
keep saying no, yeah, he's ain't going up there if he's got to
55:55
stand next to a guy wearing his his spaceman outfit and make ours. Yeah.
56:00
I never cared about any of that makeup stuff, Tommy and Ace's makeup
56:06
blah blah blah. I don't. I just don't care. It's just it's
56:08
not important to me. To me, the important thing is the records,
56:10
right, Have Vinnie go up there in his unk makeup? Yeah? Yeah?
56:15
Kiss at fifty. It's out now through Motor Books and they can get
56:19
it through Amazon all the usual places, but they should also go to your
56:21
website too. Yeah, definitely, you can get it at Martin Popoff dot
56:23
com. Of course I signed them and send them out from the office here.
56:28
And you know, slight discounts if you order one or two things at
56:31
once, pop something else into the box. But yeah, I've ue you
56:36
definitely get it at mark popoff dot com. All right, Martin, thank
56:37
you man. This was awesome and I will talk to you again soon.
56:40
Okay, sounds good. Eric, we'll talk to you later. That's it.
56:52
It's in the books.