Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Nicole Bolea and Zach Whitney, Coffeewomple

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Nicole Bolea and Zach Whitney, Coffeewomple · Coffee People Podcast

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help them out. Random.
1:19
You should see an alert pop up there.
1:20
It was super random that when I was looking for a photo of Chuck
1:23
for the podcast we put out today that it was a picture that he
1:26
had posted with you. There's like only like 3
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pictures of them and that was one of them.
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So I'm going to get started here.
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And I do that every show by saying hello, welcome to the
1:36
coffee people podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Walt.
1:38
The show is presented by Roast, our coffee packaging found
1:41
online at rostar.com. The Coffee People pod is part of
1:45
our Roast West Coast coffee network.
1:47
You can go to roastwestcoast.com to find recaps.
1:51
Our Coffee Smarter podcast, so much more.
1:53
And if you haven't poured yourself a cup of coffee, I just
1:56
poured myself a Costa Rica Yellow Honey from Coffee Wamble.
2:00
Now is the time. I'm also very excited because I
2:03
don't normally drink coffee in the afternoons when we're
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talking. Our guests today are and I want
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to make sure I say this right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Nicole Belaya and Zach Whitney, the Co founders and owners of
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Coffee Wample in Minneapolis, MN.
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You can find them online at coffeewample.com.
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Of course, we'll have those links in our podcast show notes.
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Welcome, Zach and Nicole. I appreciate you being here.
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Cool. Thanks Ryan.
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We appreciate it too. And you and you nailed the
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intro. It's something that I've been
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practicing. It's like a new thing for the
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show. Coffee Wample.
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One word or two. One word.
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One word. OK, I want to, I'm going to
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learn all about you guys. But before we get into that, I
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read that coffee wample is a take on the word coddy wample.
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Could you tell us what that means and why the connection?
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Yeah. So katiwomple is an old Welsh
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kind of slang term that means to go to an unknown destination
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purposefully. We kind of wanted to jump into
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roasting and see what we're doing, but not really know where
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it's going to take us, you know, and also getting outside and
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just going for those adventures and hanging out.
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And, you know, when we go on vacation, we don't fully plan
3:14
things out. And so it's just kind of way we
3:18
live. That is commendable.
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I start planning my trips months and months in advance, knowing
3:27
that none of it will go as I plan, especially now when we're,
3:31
you know, working around fires and, you know, tornadoes and
3:34
whatever weather. But it's something that is a
3:38
real challenge for me and I'm actively working on.
3:40
You can Lisa, that's what I tell my therapist.
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I'm wondering if you could give us a little background on the
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two of you. You know, how did you meet and
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kind of get started on this process?
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And if you have any first coffee memories that you know, inspired
3:55
you, you think back and go, oh, that might have been the start
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of something. Sure.
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So we met in engineering school. So we're both, you know, nerds
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by nerds by background. We met up in Duluth where we
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both went to school for engineering and Zach was working
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at the coffee shop then or later while we were in school.
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And we've always, I've always really loved coffee.
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I'm embarrassed probably about what I thought was good coffee a
4:20
long time ago. But I've always had, you know,
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even as a poor college student, always bought my own hoping
4:25
coffee and grounded. And I've been drinking it since
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I was like 16 or younger and grew up around it and so
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passionate about coffee. But obviously recently we've
4:36
kind of taken it to the next level.
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But I'll switch over to Uzak and you can give the the barista
4:41
side. Like Nicole said, we met at UMD
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and I worked at the campus coffee shop.
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We met in physics class though, so not not at the coffee shop,
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but I in high school, I worked at Caribou Coffee.
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It was my first job and so I kind of went through their
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training program and learning about coffee and then I worked
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at the school coffee shop and then I served and bartended when
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I was in school as well during the summer.
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So I've kind of been in that service industry and that side
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of things for quite some time. Yeah, you're, you're in
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Minneapolis now, South of Duluth.
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I'd point out to anyone listening, Duluth has been in
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the news a lot as a climate haven, Very long winters.
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As a former Wisconsinite, even I looked at Duluth and went Oh no
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like that's going to be long. Does coffee mean something
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different when you are living in a cold environment than it does
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for the rest of us? I'm curious if you have any
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thoughts on that. I definitely prefer to take a
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hot mug of coffee with me. You know, having something warm
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in the car when you're traveling in the cold is never a bad idea.
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Yeah, I can't imagine, like, starting out the day with cold
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coffee, even when it's really hot out, just because, yeah, I
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always start with a hot, hot cup of coffee regardless.
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Like we just came back from a trip to original Honduras and it
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was hot there, but I'm still gonna drink hot coffee.
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But yeah, so it's definitely a part of like in Minnesota and
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like not, I'm not Norwegian, I guess maybe you are a little
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bit, but there's a lot of that Scandinavian culture of like
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very, you know, dark, hot coffee, right?
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Yeah, dark, hot coffee, a little bit of a sauna, hop in the ice,
6:23
in the icy water and then and then back to it.
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Before you were in coffee, you mentioned you met at UMD and
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you're both in engineering school.
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Science, I think science is it all is a blur for me.
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I took like astronomy in high school.
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That was kind of the end of it. What?
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What were you doing before you started coffee Wample that you
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know, was the thing that you were thinking was you going to
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be your life? Well, we're still doing it.
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I'm, I'm doing building electrical design.
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I work for a electrical engineering consulting firm and
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we do mechanical design as well. So working on commercial
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buildings, designing buildings, breweries, you know, I've worked
7:11
on breweries, coffee shops, high rises, you name it.
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So you. Designed the transformer that
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powered our roaster. Oh.
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That's cool. I don't even know what that
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means, but it sounds very cool. What about you, Nicole?
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What? What was your path out of
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college before coffee wample? So similarly, we fondly refer to
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coffee wample as our 5:00 to 9:00, but for for 9:00 to 5:00
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grind backgrounds in chemical engineering.
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But I've always been in the environmental space and super
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passionate about that. And right now work for a company
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and we design, manufacture, supply equipment for drinking
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water for like big cities. So yeah, water quality, it's
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important to me obviously. And especially with climate
7:55
change and scarcity, it's, you know, going to continue to be an
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issue, just like how it's affecting coffee, right?
8:01
Sure. It's something that my wife and
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I think about as we look at places in the world to move, we
8:05
don't consider places that maybe we don't think have a water
8:09
friendly future, at least in our lifetimes.
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When did coffee become something that you guys were doing
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together? Let's say become this discussion
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of hey, this is something more than just we're waking up having
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a hot cup of coffee. Yeah, Zach was roasting in our
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kitchen, like at home. What was that like almost four
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years ago now, just for fun. And I was like, this is really
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good. And we've done, we've done all
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sorts of things, like we've brewed beer, we've made cheese.
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We've tried all these things as hobbies, but no one's ever
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wanted to buy that before, you know what I mean?
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Like we've never made beer that people are lining up to to take
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home with them. But it was different with
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coffee, and I was going through my MBA program at the same time.
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So I'm like an engineer turned business person.
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And yeah, I was like, this could be a fun adventure for us.
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I'm obsessed with entrepreneurship so.
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So you were roasting coffee at home and then giving it to
9:06
people and asking for opinions. I mean, did you feel confident
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doing that? I think there's always a turning
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point where when you make something the first time, you
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think, you know what? I think this is good, but I
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think other people will also think it's good.
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You know, any nervousness going into that or how long between
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that point and then going, no, we're going to we're going to
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try to start a business. So that, that kind of first year
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of kitchen roasting on a fresh roast, I was playing around with
9:32
different stuff and we went to a local coffee showcase or
9:36
whatever of local roasters. And some of the stuff I tried
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was I'm like, I, I think I got something that's pretty Dang
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good. You know, it stacks up with some
9:46
of these. I wonder, you know?
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You're like, we could do this too.
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Like maybe foolishly now, but it also was cool to see the people
9:56
that were really passionate about it, how they were bringing
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up these just crazy flavors that I didn't know coffee could
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taste, like strawberries, you know, like that blew my mind.
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And so that also put us down a rabbit hole of chasing fun stuff
10:09
too, to roast ourselves. The idea that it's that you're
10:15
making something and you also have these full time careers.
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There's AI don't want to call it a a conceit, but there has to be
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this idea that we can do this well enough in the time that we
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have to justify not just the expense, but also that we're
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giving it out to the world and asking them to give us something
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in in return. What made you think that you
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were the right couple to do that?
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What made you think you could work together on a business
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which is a different type of relationship than you had had
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previously? Yeah, I think we're also driven
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by like back to the environmental.
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We're both super passionate about the environment, you know,
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having our own business and doing it in a way that's more
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sustainable and not caring about like we get to make the decision
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because we know this is the best choice long term.
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This is the most sustainable option, not this is the best
11:08
option for our bottom line. And so it's really freeing to be
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able to do that. And then, I don't know, you put
11:15
up with me. We're still working on that part
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I that's, that's a never ending. That's a never ending thing, you
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know. Well, you do you have like
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distinctive roles in the business or does it just kind of
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what is occurring today and we work on it together?
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Yeah, we definitely have like our division of Labor, if you
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will, to play to our strengths. And then a lot of it is
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ultimately collaborative though. Like we're we're a true
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partnership. Like inside and outside of the
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business, you know, we see each other as equals.
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We do things together we enjoy like I wouldn't do this
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otherwise. Like I love spending time with
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you. Like it's, you know, it's just
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easy and it's more fun together. I couldn't imagine trying to do
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this by yourself. Like it's so hard doing a small
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business to not be all in and not have a partnership with that
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I think would be more challenging than maybe when we
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don't always agree. Right.
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Yeah. And like, you know, as I'm
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roasting and she's, you know, she's packaging or whatever and
12:13
filling that, you know, we're using our free time, so to
12:18
speak, as best we can and just divide and conquer and work
12:23
toward that same goal. It says on your website that I'm
12:27
quoting here. The passion for good coffee and
12:29
the outdoors collide, you get coffee womple when the passion
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for good coffee and the outdoors collide, you get coffee womple.
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When you have free time that allows you to get out into the
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outdoors, you know what's the adventures that you're looking
12:43
for. We're headed to Colorado to go
12:48
hit the mountains, so we'll be snowboarding.
12:51
We're going to dabble in some some split boarding for the
12:53
first time that I'm super excited about.
12:56
What else do we do? I go ice fishing on Lake
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Superior, so always making a cup out there is like little joys,
13:05
especially when the fish aren't there.
13:08
We like to take our dogs places, so we've been, you know, going
13:12
mountain biking in North Carolina or just, I don't know,
13:17
trying to take them with too. And so we really just travel all
13:21
over Honduras. We went to Japan earlier this
13:25
year. I mean, honestly, it's been kind
13:27
of crazy and just like bringing coffee with us everywhere we've
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gone has just like, I don't know, you go looking for that
13:36
different side of things that maybe you wouldn't normally.
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It's a different, it's just a different people than what I am
13:43
normally seeing or working with on a job site.
13:47
And it's other creators of coffee and flavors and, you
13:52
know, you want to know what they think.
13:53
They want to know what you think.
13:55
So there's like a lot of community built there.
13:58
Even if there's language barriers or whatever that may
14:01
be, you know, there's still that foundation of coffee that can
14:05
really, you know, bring people together.
14:09
You get back from a trip like Honduras or North Carolina or
14:13
Japan or something. Yeah, I'm assuming those are
14:16
invigorating and inspiring. How do you then turn that into
14:19
the the business? How do you how does that impact
14:22
what you're doing day-to-day? Yeah, Honduras is the easy
14:26
example, right, 'cause we were there Trip to Origin, we were
14:29
with the farmer to farmer nonprofit group that we roast
14:33
for and they import from Guatemala and Honduras.
14:36
And so having that connection directly to the farmer is really
14:39
impactful. I think when you're at those
14:43
coffee farms and you're talking to the coffee farmers about what
14:45
they're dealing with, the impacts of climate change are so
14:48
much more real. I mean, you in California
14:51
obviously feel it, but in Minnesota, we're privileged to
14:55
so far, you know, not feel as maybe dramatic of effects unless
14:59
you're a farmer. They're still hurting for sure.
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So I don't want to diminish any of that, but it's just so real
15:04
down there. It is 46° though, on January
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30th. That's true.
15:09
That's no snow on the ground. Yeah.
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And I'd point out you're saying that's warm.
15:15
That is warm, yes. Normally the time is you know,
15:20
at or around 0 so. And on the other side of things,
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you know, I'm here in Southern California today.
15:27
I'm headed out to Joshua Tree on Monday.
15:30
They they had snow in Joshua Tree this weekend, this past
15:34
weekend. And our nights are getting into
15:35
the low 40s and it's definitely this kind of weird kind of
15:39
things are mixed up. Most of my family still in
15:42
Wisconsin so I I always wait every year for those snow
15:44
pictures and they just have not been coming.
15:47
Nope, Florida got more snow in January than Minnesota this
15:52
year. Something's not wrong now I
15:54
don't. Know, I mean it's just
15:56
everything is upside down and that brings me to this idea or
16:01
this question I have for you. You mentioned earlier starting
16:04
sustainable business. You mentioned the value that has
16:08
to you and that you can make decisions in part because you
16:13
have full time jobs that you think are just best for what you
16:16
want out of, you know, your values and your ethos.
16:20
Not every small start up business has that option.
16:23
So that's a great thing to take advantage of.
16:25
I'm wondering as you're going through this process and you're
16:28
looking into packaging and you're looking into the impact
16:31
that your business has, you very familiar with how water impacts
16:35
the community with your other career.
16:37
Nicole, do you find hope in the things that you're seeing out
16:41
there? Or do you actually see it to be
16:43
a bigger challenge than maybe you realized to have us to say a
16:47
sustainable business of your own?
16:50
We're hoping so. You know you first hand have
16:55
gotten one of our fully compostable bags and it showed
16:59
up blown up. You know I.
17:02
Wasn't going to say anything. That's OK, That is 100% what
17:06
we've been up against this entire time when sourcing
17:09
compostable packaging. It's not strong enough.
17:13
It's not whatever. So this is finally a fully
17:17
printed bag and after your showed up blown up I went and
17:21
grabbed the next like 5 bags out-of-the-box and tried to
17:24
punch out the bottom and I I couldn't right away.
17:27
So I have no clue what happened on that one, but it's definitely
17:30
something we'll have to keep an eye on.
17:34
But yeah, it's extremely frustrating.
17:36
There isn't enough demand yet, at least in the US, to drive
17:43
more sustainable options when it comes to packaging because 90%
17:48
of people seem to buy a package, RIP it open, put their coffee in
17:53
another container or whatever that may be.
17:56
And at least when it comes to specialty coffee, and if we can
18:01
eliminate some of that waste and just, you know, have it be
18:05
better, and then that's important to us.
18:08
So we went from our labels falling off our other bags and
18:12
you know, you can't get on the shelf if your label falls off
18:15
and you know, they're half blowing in the wind at the
18:18
farmers market. You know, you, you find that the
18:21
people that care, care and they don't care that your labels
18:25
falling off. But to go somewhere and be on a
18:29
shelf or push into that kind of longer market, no way.
18:34
So I I understand why people go with more robust packaging and
18:41
easier solutions. I mean, it took us over a year
18:45
probably to even find someone that would make this for us.
18:51
Do you think you'll ever get to a point in this business where
18:54
it meets the sustainability baseline?
18:57
I've got to stop saying sustainable.
18:58
I'm going to just be slurring all over the place where it
19:02
meets the baseline for what you, you would hope in your, you
19:06
know, in your dreamland of environmental sustainability.
19:09
That's also a business making money.
19:11
Do you think it's possible to get to that point or is it just
19:15
kind of a never ending Every day?
19:17
It's like we're going to make some sort of decision or
19:19
compromise to take one step forward.
19:23
I think ultimately there is no, I mean, we're all the nihilistic
19:26
view is that none of us are sustainable.
19:29
No business is sustainable, right?
19:30
That we are all burdening the earth in some way.
19:33
And so I think it's always a challenge to do better.
19:36
And I think it's important that we're aware of like what the
19:39
better options are. But if we don't as businesses or
19:43
consumers or people demand that, it's never going going to become
19:47
more economical. Like we just watched Apbs
19:50
documentary last night and they're talking about how the
19:52
projections for solar, wind, all of these more sustainable forms
19:56
of energy were a lot more pessimistic than what is
19:59
happening in the real world world.
20:01
I can't talk either in terms of economics.
20:03
So we didn't think it would be as economical as it is to do
20:07
solar right now 1015 years ago. But it is so I think.
20:12
Sometimes these models are a little more pessimistic and I
20:14
think it's the same thing. If we all just keep demanding
20:17
slightly better choices, it will become the norm, right?
20:21
Our business as usual should continue to get better.
20:25
You just mentioned solar. California just set a record for
20:29
the number of days that we went in a row where we depended
20:32
solely on renewable energy. And that was a really cool
20:36
thing. We went 98 straight days where
20:38
they didn't use any sort of energy that wasn't wind or water
20:41
or solar. But then I got my energy bill
20:45
and it was the same or more than it had been the month before.
20:49
And you go, well, wait a minute. How does that work?
20:51
And the reality is, is we generationally are, are
20:55
essentially paying for the energy sins of our our
20:58
forefathers. You know, we're paying for
21:00
upgrading systems. We're paying for lawsuits from
21:03
fires. We're paying for all these other
21:04
things. In my case, all of the energy in
21:08
my apartment is coming from renewable energy, but I pay a
21:11
tax to use the the outlets essentially from the company
21:16
that has them. And so is it a challenge to, or
21:21
is it even possible to educate a customer that they should want
21:24
this stuff if they're not seeing, you know, what you're
21:26
going through or the benefit? How much is that part of your
21:29
story and how much should it be part of the story as opposed to
21:33
just This is a great cup of coffee compared to you know,
21:36
what you might else be getting somewhere.
21:38
I think what we've learned is there are people it resonates
21:42
with. That's important for there's
21:43
people we've met at these markets that reach out to us as
21:46
a resource for things about composting and things that are
21:50
more sustainable because of our background.
21:52
But at the end of the day, the coffee still has to be awesome,
21:55
I think, to be successful. Like we can't have a MIT product
21:59
and and greenwash things to to sell it right?
22:02
Like the coffee still has to be has to be good and on point and
22:06
just as good or if not better than everybody.
22:07
Else's So the package is not sold the coffee today.
22:12
In fact, it probably only hurt it.
22:14
Definitely with like our labels fallen off for sure.
22:18
And bottom line in general, you know using compostable packaging
22:22
and the labels and everything and then just that cost, upfront
22:27
cost has always been higher to keep your coffee the same or
22:31
competitive price with everybody else.
22:32
Like again, we just wrapped it in, wrapped it in and understood
22:36
that we're going to make whatever less per package and
22:39
that's just the way it's going to be.
22:41
So we feel good about it and. Right.
22:46
I just, you know, come back to like, I don't want to be a part
22:48
of the problem. I'm not going to be the reason
22:50
that more single use plastic exists forever on this earth.
22:53
And so that's just how it is. I want the audience to
22:58
understand what Coffee Wample as a business is right now.
23:02
Could you give us just kind of like a description of where
23:04
you're at in the life of this business?
23:06
I mean, is there retail? Is it wholesale?
23:08
Is there a place people can go to taste Coffee Wample for
23:11
example, you know, where is the Business Today?
23:14
Yeah. So we opened our commercial or
23:16
like expanded. So we were roasting out of our
23:18
house expanded into a commercial space this past summer and
23:23
upgraded to a much larger roaster because we were saying
23:25
no to a lot of retail, wholesale opportunities like that.
23:29
So now we're trying to capitalize on those
23:32
opportunities. So we're hyper focused on
23:34
wholesale, a little bit of retail.
23:37
We of course have the e-commerce piece and then we also roast for
23:41
other people. Zach has like this amazing
23:43
ability to roast whatever me. I mean, we've taken some
23:48
professional classes and like shout out to Bryant, who was on
23:52
the podcast earlier. He's an incredible teacher and
23:54
and works locally here at Mill City.
23:57
So we roast for other people as well too and like help white
24:00
label and then create their vision as well.
24:02
So he was just profiling some Vietnamese coffee, for example,
24:07
for a potential client. So it's just fun too, is what
24:11
we're doing, I guess. But that's, that's the, the
24:13
whole business right now is we have our brand, we're roasting
24:15
for a couple other people trying to leverage the the roaster
24:19
more, but you know, making sure it's still stuff that excites us
24:23
and it's fun. And not to put you too much on
24:26
the spot, but there's no like, immediate plans to walk into
24:29
your workplace someday and throw a a quitting letter on the
24:32
counter and say no, take your health benefits back.
24:35
I want to go open a cafe. Based on the business plan and
24:40
the current numbers of coffee waffle, that letter is it's.
24:43
Not coming too soon. Nowhere here, nowhere near the
24:47
current plan. All right, well, if you change
24:49
your mind, I won't tell anyone until you until you put that
24:52
letter out. I will let you know.
24:54
I'm trying to figure out where you find the time with a job and
25:00
a business and spending time with the dogs.
25:04
But I read that you, Nicole, are also part of the Women's
25:07
Environmental Network, the board.
25:09
I'm wondering for either of you, we kind of ask people what
25:13
their, you know, what are the things that they're passionate
25:16
about, if there are charities or nonprofits or efforts that they
25:19
like to support. Could you tell us a little bit
25:20
about that and why you find value in taking your little bit
25:24
of free time into it? Right, I know.
25:26
Yeah. Just another thing on on the
25:27
list. We don't have kids.
25:28
So that's like the big I think thing that then people get the
25:31
light bulb of OK, if you think about how much time you're
25:34
spending, you know, on that, then I think that's part of it.
25:37
And we sacrifice too. There's definitely things that
25:39
we probably like to do these days that we give up on for the
25:42
business right now as we're in that grind.
25:45
But yeah, the Women in Women's Environment Network, I joined
25:49
locally previously I worked for a company that didn't have a lot
25:54
of female leadership, you know, an engineering science based
25:57
space. There just are not as many
26:00
women, of course. And so this was kind of an
26:02
outlet for me to network with other women in the space.
26:05
And it's just something that's important to me to, you know,
26:08
empower women into leadership, especially, you know, in the
26:11
sciences. But we've kind of expanded
26:13
beyond that. We have folks from other
26:16
industries and artists that are part of the board that and
26:19
that's really fun to not just be a bunch of nerds all the time,
26:23
but it's a group of women that I also leverage as we went through
26:27
our packaging journey. You get people that will reach
26:30
out, they'll tell you one thing because they want to sell their
26:33
packaging. And then I talked to the people
26:35
I work with because they work in solid waste or they work at the
26:38
recycling facility. I'm like, hey, is this really
26:39
recyclable? Is this really compostable?
26:42
Like what we're being told? Is that actually going to happen
26:46
out in practice? So it's also been awesome to
26:48
have that extra due diligence to our work so we can feel good
26:53
about what we say with our packaging.
26:57
Passionate about that nonprofit. I know Zach has some too that
27:00
he's passionate about. Yeah, I'm president of the local
27:05
ham radio club. And so we got that going.
27:09
And also with that and part of that is we we report severe
27:15
weather to the National Weather Service from spotters, local
27:19
people on the ground. So with that, I'm also on the
27:22
Metro Skywarn board. And so we we see, you know,
27:26
direct impacts of climate change and everything else.
27:29
Storms are getting worse. Maybe the last couple years we
27:33
haven't had direct severe weather in the metro per SE,
27:37
which we cover the seven county metro, but it's something we're
27:41
all noting and tracking and seeing in real time, just kind
27:46
of the effects of everything. So yeah.
27:49
Can I ask how you got interested in ham radio and could you just
27:53
give us a quick what the F is a ham radio for most of the
27:56
audience listening? Yeah, so ham, ham radio is just,
28:01
you've probably seen one at like your grandfather's house or
28:04
something. It's radio that you the FCC,
28:08
lets you communicate on around the world.
28:13
Like ACB radio, a truck or CB radio for your home, right?
28:17
Exactly exactly or mobile so. How did you get interested in
28:22
that in the first place? Oh, so I was big into kind of
28:27
rally racing, and we have a stage forest rally here in
28:31
Minnesota. And so it's a national stop on
28:35
the circuit. Cars go racing through the woods
28:38
as fast as they can and they have to shut down all these
28:41
little side roads and things. And so I went up as a spectator
28:46
one year, and I heard all these little radios going off, and I
28:49
was like, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, this is the
28:52
only way this event can run out in these forests is with ham
28:56
radio volunteers. I said cool.
28:59
So I looked up the nearest club to me, and yeah, that was about
29:04
six years ago. So car racing through the woods
29:07
actually got me into ham radio and it.
29:10
Yeah. That's like the opposite of what
29:12
I was expecting to be. Honest, I know.
29:14
Right. I think that probably would
29:15
surprise a lot of people. One of the great things that
29:19
we've been able to do with this show is collect just a lot of
29:23
knowledge of people starting businesses and in coffee in
29:26
specifics. And Rostars asked us to be a
29:29
little bit more intentional with that.
29:30
And so I'm wondering if there is some advice perhaps that you
29:35
could give us, Zach, about working with an electric roaster
29:38
for anyone listening that's thinking about that, why they
29:41
should consider that in the future?
29:45
Yeah, I mean, so to start off the big, the biggest kicker on
29:49
an electric roaster and why you'd go to one is we have 98%
29:54
less emissions and a gas roaster.
29:56
So we just have the, you know, the carbon and the steam
29:59
released from the beans. Right.
30:01
And that's out the stack. That doesn't account for the
30:03
fugitive emissions coming from the methane delivery system.
30:07
Correct. So it's, it's just way more
30:10
efficient to run from an environmental standpoint.
30:15
The other thing is I would say is I can't tell the difference.
30:21
You don't taste the gas and you don't taste the electricity.
30:25
You know, that it, it's different than say like wood
30:28
fired roasting or something like that where you can taste that
30:31
smoke. You just don't get that, you
30:34
know, in a commercial roaster. So then, then my argument was,
30:39
well, why not? And the answer is because no one
30:41
makes them that big for commercial roasting.
30:45
So we went two years ago to the SCA Expo and we're asking all
30:49
the manufacturers, you know, when are you going to have one
30:52
larger than 10 kilograms, You know, because we wanted to not
30:56
start small. I was already on a 1K electric
30:59
bullet. I'm like, I don't want, you
31:01
know, 234 kilos because I already know what that, you
31:05
know, the time in verse, time out is not like getting us
31:09
there. So then when Geeson approached
31:11
us that they had a 15K ready to go, yeah, we said yeah.
31:18
Did you price wise comparable, I mean in the ballpark, is it a
31:23
big jump or is there a benefit on the other side of it when
31:25
you're using electricity as opposed to say propane or gas?
31:29
We're in a place where methane's cheap.
31:32
Gas is cheap. So, you know, maybe one day that
31:36
will pencil out. We definitely paid a premium
31:39
both because Geeson is a really high end nice roaster.
31:42
It's a beautiful, very well machine, you know, design
31:46
machine. And then the electric piece cost
31:48
a little bit more too. But because we were kind of like
31:52
an early mover, they gave us a little bit of a deal.
31:55
Our roaster was actually on the floor at the SEA conference in
31:59
Chicago. So we didn't have to pay to
32:01
bring it from the Netherlands to the US.
32:04
We did explore some like manufacturing domestically and I
32:08
visited some people, but no one was really very far along with
32:11
anything over like a 5K roaster, honestly, or like maybe 10 lbs,
32:18
but nobody had anything substantial.
32:21
And if we're going to spend the amount of money that we're
32:24
looking at spending to do that expansion, we didn't want to.
32:27
It was a go big or go home moment for sure.
32:30
It's not the cheap option when buying a roaster, Definitely
32:34
not. But there's some nuance too,
32:36
like you should share, like roast, because we roasted on gas
32:40
regimes as well, too, like when we took the Mill City class.
32:42
And roasting electric is different, like you have to
32:46
approach it a little bit differently for sure.
32:48
I mean, you've, you always, at least with an electric roaster
32:51
coming from an allele bullet and to this Geeson is you, you tend
32:58
to have to throw more heat at it in the beginning.
33:02
And with the bullet, if you cut your energy down too soon,
33:05
that's it. I do not find that though with
33:08
this geese in, you can kind of kick it down a little bit and
33:12
kind of save your profile if you're getting off track where
33:16
that was not an option before. So they really have made it
33:21
extremely similar to gas in their electric panels too.
33:25
You can, there's three of them underneath and you can select
33:29
1-2 or three on. So normally you'd have them all
33:32
on, but if you need just a little kick in there too, you
33:35
can turn just one on as well, so.
33:38
That's all good to know and we'll I'm going to link to some
33:41
of these some resources on this for anyone listening.
33:44
I do have one more piece of advice question I wanted to ask
33:47
the two of you. You're in a unique situation
33:50
where you are partners at work, partners in life.
33:53
Any advice you'd give to a a couple thinking about going into
33:57
business together? Warnings.
34:00
Advice. This works, this doesn't.
34:02
Anything you you might think might be relevant?
34:04
Yeah, I'll start. I will say that I will say that
34:09
when problem solving, especially coming from two people that
34:13
always like having the answer, you know, and when it comes to
34:17
packaging or whatever it be box sizes when it comes to shipping
34:22
coffee and starting out is like you got to is is never attack on
34:27
you. We're just trying to like figure
34:30
out like, isn't it? You didn't make the wrong
34:32
decision. It's.
34:34
It's just the never ending search for finding better ways
34:39
to do things. It's not so.
34:41
You know when things come up, right?
34:44
It's it's never a personal attack or whatever that may be.
34:49
It's just I think we can. We're always trying to do things
34:52
better. For sure.
34:55
Yeah. Because like, for me and my
34:58
background, you know, I'm used to knowing all the answers and
35:01
I've been in my career a long enough time where it's super
35:05
humbling to be bad at things. You know, like when you you go,
35:11
you go through school, you go through your career and you
35:12
definitely make mistakes, of course.
35:14
And so it's tough to have to go back to that reset where you
35:18
have to relearn a bunch of new things that you think should be
35:21
easy but maybe aren't. So, yeah, patience.
35:24
Patience with each other for sure.
35:27
What comes next for coffee wample?
35:31
Hopefully a bunch of more events.
35:33
We're we're leaning into quite a bit of retail and wholesale
35:37
early this year. Our space is very fun.
35:40
So people are in the area. We're trying to do more events
35:43
in our roastery space. It's in this very cool building
35:47
in Northeast where they used to make rye crisp crackers
35:50
actually, which is a fun fact. So, yeah, I think leveraging
35:56
that kind of third space that we've created with friends and
35:59
family in the community, I'm excited about back to Zach's
36:03
comment about the coffee community, the thing that I
36:06
didn't realize going into this business that would be so
36:09
rewarding is all of the people we've met at markets and
36:13
roasters showcase other roasters along the way.
36:16
That's been really fun because we would never meet those people
36:20
otherwise. We're both fairly extroverted
36:22
people, but you just, you know, in our day-to-day lives you
36:26
don't come across maybe as many makers or small business owners
36:29
as as we do now, which is really cool.
36:32
I find it's easier just to communicate when I have a cup of
36:34
coffee and I think people feel more relaxed and and normal,
36:39
which is why I brewed one even though it's the afternoon
36:41
because I'm still getting used to like the knowing that I'm
36:44
talking on video part. Normally I can kind of just be
36:47
myself and now I feel very aware of what is being seen at all
36:51
times. Speaking of cups of coffee, when
36:54
you're out in Minneapolis, which I think is a very underrated
36:57
coffee community, particularly in the city, not so much the
37:00
suburbs, they're catching up. What is it that you're going to
37:03
order off the menu? I'm always going to go for a
37:08
pour over. Yeah, every time.
37:12
If they say they got their new favorite something on it as a
37:15
pour over, yes, let me try it. Yeah, pour over or I'll drink a
37:22
lot of drip too, right? As we're trying to figure out
37:24
like who has what coffee and what it tastes like and how it's
37:28
brewing, I think we need to challenge ourselves to get
37:31
espresso drinks more so we get exposed to that.
37:35
But at the end of the day, I just want like a black cup of
37:37
coffee. Yeah.
37:40
Are you able to sit and enjoy it and not think about it from a
37:44
business person's perspective? Probably not.
37:48
Are you? That's good.
37:49
This is good compartmentalization.
37:51
I am no. Anything that I missed today
37:55
that you wanted me to ask that I didn't, or that we just missed?
38:01
How about Chuck, OH? Yeah, we didn't talk about
38:04
Chuck. Well, I'll we have a photo of
38:07
you on our website with Chuck Patton, a recent guest on the
38:09
show. How did that come about?
38:12
Yeah, Chuck's obviously a big deal and we're not so much, but
38:16
we. Chuck acknowledged that when he
38:20
looks in the mirror, he sees a legend.
38:23
He. Told me that I believe.
38:25
That that's too funny. We what was oh, roast, roast
38:31
like their news outlet wrote an article about us and you know,
38:37
as many coffee people get that and then Chuck, of course, is
38:40
trying to build up his business too.
38:42
He reached out on Instagram and I saw the message and I was
38:46
like, who's this guy? And then I googled who he was
38:48
and I was like, Oh my gosh. I was like Zach, this guy who
38:51
started Bird Rock reached out to us and we were going to San
38:54
Diego cause Zach's cousin was getting married.
38:57
And I'm like, we should go meet him.
38:58
How fun. And so we did.
39:00
And but the reason why he reached out was because he was
39:03
the first Geeson owner in the United States.
39:07
And he's like, well, you guys are the first ones with an
39:09
electric one. So I have a cautionary tale and
39:13
it's by their service kit and their emergency kit.
39:16
So you're not down and out. So funny enough, we emailed Gisa
39:21
and we're like, hey, so can we get this emergency kit?
39:24
And they're like, I don't know, you know?
39:26
We're still working on that, that piece of like hopefully
39:30
helpful advice. Fortunately, you're very handy.
39:35
We have friends around us that are very mechanically inclined
39:38
and, and we're, we're pretty savvy, but yeah, we we may need
39:44
to fix our own thing someday. So it would be good good to get
39:46
the kit that's still on our list.
39:48
I'll introduce you to Steve from Zumbar Coffee, one of our very,
39:52
our very first, the very first interview we ever did on the
39:55
show, who's been working on the same machine, roasting on the
39:58
same machine, I think for like 22 years and has always done the
40:02
maintenance himself. And now people won't do
40:05
maintenance for him, I believe, because he's done so many
40:07
modifications that nobody understands.
40:11
That he's the only one that can work on it.
40:14
To both of you, Zach and Nicole, it's been just a real pleasure.
40:18
I appreciate the time and and getting to meet you.
40:21
To everyone listening, you can find links that we chatted about
40:23
today, including the one to coffeewomple.com in our show
40:26
notes in our newsletter. This show is part of our Roast
40:30
West Coast Coffee network. You can find it on your favorite
40:33
podcast platforms like Apple, Spotify.
40:35
Please like and subscribe. I think it helps.
40:38
I don't really understand algorithms.
40:40
A shout out to our presenting sponsor, Rostar Incorporated,
40:43
the coffee packaging company that helps small businesses tell
40:45
their big story. And that's it.
40:48
Thank you guys for being here and to everyone to look for
40:51
listening. Tip your baristas and be sure to
40:53
drink good coffee. The.