Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Attachment Styles & Relationships: Q&A with Dr. Sarah Hensley | E10

Transcript

Attachment Styles & Relationships: Q&A with Dr. Sarah Hensley | E10 · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: People aren't random. They're incredibly predictable. This is a show
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: about the science of human behavior, relationships, emotional healing, and
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the hidden patterns running our lives that most of us
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: don't even realize exist. Because once you see the pattern,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: you can finally change it. I'm Dr.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Sarah Hensley.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: And I'm Raina Butcher.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: You think your life is random.
• 0:24
  Speaker 4: It's not. Welcome to the Dr. Sarah Hensley Show.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Dr. Sarah Hensley Show.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we are going to be discussing questions
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: from our audience. So if you guys didn't know, we
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: have a free Facebook clients and community group that you
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: can join. It's called Dr. Sarah Hensley Clients and Community.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: And we often take questions from those posts. And we
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: don't identify you. We're not going to ever identify you.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: And most of the questions are from anonymous sources. they
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: are not identified anyway. And so we're going to read
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: the questions and then I get to answer them without
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: knowing what.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: The questions are.
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: No, you have no prior knowledge of these questions. And
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: you guys always seem to really like these episodes. So
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: we like to do them once a month just because
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: it's really the audience's voice.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: And that's really what we try to, we try to
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: make this all about you guys.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: We want to make it all about you guys.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: And I think that the best way to learn from
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: you is really from the questions of your audience. Yes.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: So Raina takes questions that I have not yet answered
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: because I try to moderate.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: We try to moderate the best we can. But there's
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: so many questions today. We can't get to all of them.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: So we try to choose from ones that we haven't
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: yet answered.
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And so I'll start with, of course, everyone's favorite,
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: the dismissive avoidant.
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: 21 years with a dismissive avoidant husband.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: I've only had the language for it the last year
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: or so. Last night, we had a major disagreement, and
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: he said something that he has said before, and I
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: wonder if other partners have heard the same thing time
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: and time again. He said, no one has to put
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: up with as much crap as I have. No one
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: has to listen to this crap for years. I know
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: DAs often say the same responses and wondered if anyone
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: else had heard this one along with normal responses of
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: nothing I ever do is good enough. I just want peace.
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: Why are you always starting something, et cetera, et cetera. Note,
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: the crap he's referring to is me wanting to discuss further, explain,
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: be understood, be validated, and have resolution.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Textbook, baby. Textbook.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so if that description was in the dictionary under
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: dismissive avoidant, it would not surprise me. So, yeah, those
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: are common things that dismissive avoidants say. So I'm assuming
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: that most people would get on there and respond, yeah, honey,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that is what they say. They are super conflict avoidant.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Their internal blueprint is you go handle your feelings inside
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: of yourself. I'll handle my feelings inside of myself. Even
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: if it has to do with the relationship, we'll handle
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: them internally and kind of get over it. And then
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: our jobs just come together and be peaceful and happy
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: and have fun.
• 3:06
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And it's just not a healthy blueprint for what intimacy
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: should look like. There is going to be conflict. People
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: are going to have needs. And they do a really
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: good job of suppressing their own needs and meeting their
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: own needs on their own, which makes them very self-directed,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: which takes them away from being able to meet their
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: partner's needs. So they don't understand why their partner can't
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: just meet all of their needs kind of outside of
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the relationship, maybe except for the sexual needs, and then
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: why they have to come bring it to them to
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: talk about it. It just feels so foreign to them.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: And you have to realize that everybody feels justified in
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: their responses in a relationship. When a conflict starts, and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: two people get dysregulated because they don't have skills to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: maintain regulation, their perspective suddenly gets tunnel vision. It's like
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: there's no other reality but their reality. That's how people
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: feel when they're dysregulated in conflict. And so the dismissive
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: avoidant is very much going to feel like you're the troublemaker,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: you're the drama queen, you're starting stuff.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Look at me.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I have the moral high ground. I'm the peacekeeper. You
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: just want trouble. And so this isn't about your needs
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: actually being valid. This is about you being too sensitive
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and being someone who just likes to have drama in
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: the relationship. And until one of you guys breaks the
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: cycle where you can start holding boundaries around resolution and
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: know what those boundaries should look like and communicate them respectfully,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: this is never going to stop. And then what can
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: unintentionally happen is that he shuts down, right? You get
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: really tired of the disconnect. either he's going to come
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: moseying back around acting like everything's fine and you're going
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: to let him because you just don't want there to
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: be any more disconnection, or you're going to start reconnecting
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: in some way, trying to act like everything's fine, avoiding
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the subject so you can have reconnection. Either one of
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: those things where you continue to just allow this to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: be avoided teaches him and reinforces his avoidance, teaches him
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that he does not have to have any uncomfortable conversations
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: because if he just avoids long enough, you'll just be okay.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: And so that's where your attachment anxiety has overruled your
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: actual needs for resolution.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: And this is how resentment builds too.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: And this is the land of resentment.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: In 21 years.
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: Oh gosh.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: I couldn't do it.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: I couldn't either. There's no way.
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: I can't deal with passivity anymore. So I'm just the
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: type of person where I want to get it out.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: I'd rather just speak and have the hard conversations, even
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: if the truth hurts, instead of just continuously being passive
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: and walking on eggshells would be my literal hell.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. My hell. I get it. I mean, I lived
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: in walking on eggshells for a really long time.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: But when someone's immediate response is to push you away
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: because they don't like what you have to say, that.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Is them being the dictator. Of the relationship.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: It's one thing to say, hey, you know, I feel
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit overwhelmed in this conversation. I need a
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: little bit of space. I'll be back in X, Y,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Z time. When someone takes space in a relationship, their
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: job is to always give their partner sort of an
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: idea of when they will return.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah. That's why communication and the way you communicate.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Is so important.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: So important.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, next one.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Hello, Dr.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Sarah Hensley.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Is it possible that people with insecure attachment are unconsciously
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: only attracted to insecure partners because of their familiarity and
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: not based on love? It makes me so sad because
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: now that I'm doing the work as an FA and
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: knowing that insecure people attract each other, it made me
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: realize that maybe my ex-DA only saw me from the
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: start consciously or unconsciously as.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: A broken, defective person.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: That he loved me only because of the trauma that
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: was familiar between us and not based on who I
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: really am and all the other things that define a person.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: This idea that someone secure would not want me anyway,
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: that insecure attachments assume that they don't deserve real and
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: safe love seems very hurtful. So is this true? The
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: more I'm aware of my partners and trauma, the more
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: I realize how difficult and likely impossible it would be
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: for me to experience real love.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: And this hits me very hard.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a really sad question. And there's multiple parts
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: to that question. And the first thing I need to
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: address is if partner is dismissive avoidant, they're going to
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: be seeing themselves as defective, not you as defective. They're
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: going to be seeing themselves from a subconscious space as defective.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: And then consciously they'll twist that into we're just not
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: compatible because you bring things to the table that feel
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: like they shouldn't be in a relationship, which is expectation
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: for vulnerability, conflict resolution, all of those types of things.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: That's not in the DEA blueprint. So they're going to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: see themselves as defective. Sometimes consciously they recognize it as
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: maybe I just can't give you what you need. Consciously
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: they usually turn this into it's a compatibility issue between
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: us versus a them defectiveness issue because that's the subconscious wound. Second,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: is it true that insecurely attached people only really attract
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: insecurely attached people? That is true based on what we
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: know in the science. of like attracting like nervous systems
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: that are dysregulated and feel like love is something that
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: they have to earn or something that is performative or
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: something that eventually betrays them or something that eventually abandons them.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Whatever your wounds are, those are a self-fulfilling prophecy. You
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: will choose people that confirm those wounds. That is just
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: the way the subconscious mind works. And we've studied that
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: for a really long time, but that doesn't leave you
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: hopeless and helpless. There is an answer to that, which is,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: pouring into your own attachment security because secure nervous systems
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: act as a compass.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: They act as a guide that you can trust, right?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So if you're in the dating phase and you meet
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: someone and your nervous system is very secure, meaning that
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: it's learned to live in safety as its baseline, when
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: someone starts showing red flags and you get that feeling
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: of fear, your nervous system is going to be like,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: this is fear. This is not okay. This is not
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: something that you should proceed with. This is a red
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: flag here.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Whereas an insecure nervous system that only knows love is
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: pain or abandonment or criticism or whatever it is, is
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: going to be like, oh, well, this is just what
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: love is. And this is just a little hump we
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: have to get over. Or this is my opportunity to
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: show them I can love them better. It's going to
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: find a way to bypass that red flag because it
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: doesn't know what safety really feels like. And it's going
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: to mistake fear for chemistry because chemistry is excitement and
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: fear and excitement feel the same to an untrained nervous system.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: So this is why earning your attachment security is just so,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: so important.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: And I think you and I can both speak from experience.
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: It doesn't really happen overnight. Like I can think about
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: the trajectory of like the relationships that I had before
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, this is it, right?
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Like with my husband now.
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: Where it was sort of gradual with each one where
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I was able to recognize more and more. And so
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: the more I became safer within myself, I was able
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: to recognize like, no, this isn't it.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Even if I really liked the person.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Right. You can really like someone and still realize that
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: they don't give you everything you need or they have
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: attributes that may not make them a safe and healthy partner.
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: So it'll happen. Just don't give up hope.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Don't give up hope.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: And I think we should have a little detour and
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: recognize that we showed up to the podcast studio with
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the exact same top on pretty much.
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: We're twinning again, guys. We do this a lot.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: The amount of times that Raina and I have done
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: this is absolutely absurd. It's crazy. And I'm sure that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: people watching on YouTube have now noticed that we have...
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: almost nearly identical outfit on.
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: I don't know if it's just from, well, I think,
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: you know, working together and then being friends for almost
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: a decade now.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: Isn't that crazy?
• 10:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Almost a decade.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: I know. Look at us.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Look at us.
• 10:59
  Speaker 4: I think we're just so intertwined. Yes, for sure. But anyway,
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: like I said, if you're twinning, you're winning. So we're
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: going to win. September is the month of winning.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: It is the month of winning.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: August was a little rough.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: That's okay.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: We're wrapping it up. Okay, so here we go. Moving on.
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I'm an F.A.
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: In a relationship with another F.A. I'm really struggling to
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: show my feelings towards him. This morning I decided to
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: put a meme or send him a meme that he
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: sent me a few months ago on WhatsApp to make
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: him happy. But there are lots of words missing in
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: this one. But it freaked me out, and I took
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: it down and then put it back up again. I'm
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: in love with him, but I'm really struggling. Even looking
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: him in the eyes is a challenge. I try, but
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: I fail. He tries to show me that he loves
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: me through acts of service, but I freeze each time
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: I have to reciprocate. I don't want to lose him,
• 11:55
  Speaker 4: and I don't know what to do.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: Asking for advice.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you have to work on your nervous system.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have to do a lot of nervous
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: system work here, specifically around intimacy and conditioning safety around
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: your own emotional experiences is huge. And really diving into challenging,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: what are you telling yourself when these things happen? What
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: are your stories? What are you mentalizing? What are your
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: own thoughts about? And how are those thoughts contributing to
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: your nervous system activity? It really just comes down to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the work, right?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: The work.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: The work that we know changes someone from insecure to secure.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: And even though each attachment style might have to utilize
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: those tools a little bit differently because they have different
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: nervous systems, outcome has to be the same. You have
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to be able to feel your own emotions, process them through.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Because fear is a very top level emotion. Anger and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: fear are always top level. Emotions are like onions and
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: there's so much underneath the surface of that that you
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: are not touching. Underneath anger and fear sometimes is shame.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Or even really underneath fear sometimes is anger and then shame.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we go from fear to shame. There's always layers
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to these emotions.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: And you have to be able to peel them back.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: There's even more.
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Because even above shame can be like, well, I
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: have to perform to be worthy or, you know, so
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: it keeps going.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, there's so much.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: There's so much.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: And you have to be able to peel those layers
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: back and feel them through your body. It's the only
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: way we get resolution. It's the only way the psyche
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: actually integrates those past experiences as if we can peel
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: those back and feel them through our body. And make
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: sense of them, right? And make meaning of them. And
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: I think we have enough data to tell us that
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that has to happen.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: And I just want to read a comment under this question,
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: which is so appreciated.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: It says, Dr.
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: Hensley's program, podcasts, and videos have so much great information
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: in them.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: So please go watch them.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jordan, thank you.
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: I won't say your last name, but Jordan, thank you
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: so much for that shout out.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: That means so much to us.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: That is so amazing. So thank you so, so much
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: for that. Because I agree. I agree that you give
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: out so much free knowledge and information. And I will
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: say for the person who posted that, you know, you
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: have some awareness. So that's a good step.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: Help.
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: I went to my ex's house earlier. We had planned
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: for me to have the two younger kids while him
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: and the oldest went out.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: He was on the phone. And when he told me
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: with Sorry, guys. Some of these.
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: Are really hard to read because people leave out words.
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: He was on the phone when he told me with
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: who I asked him if they were seeing each other.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: He blew up on me. Okay, so I'm assuming there's
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: some context around this. You guys are separated. He was
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: on the phone. You came in. You asked him who
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: he was on the phone with. He blew up on
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: me and said I was invading his privacy and being disrespectful.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: He told me to leave and that I needed to
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: apologize to him for being disrespectful and And it had
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: to be the way that he wanted me to say it.
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: But I truly did not feel like I was disrespectful.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: I really pray, actually, that he finds a woman that
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: will love him and treat my kids amazing. The kids
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: were so upset after all this happened, begging him to stop.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: But he continued to tell them it was my fault
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: and that all the plans were canceled. He told the
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: kids that I was the toxic one and he was
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: cutting me out of his life so that they could
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: be healthier.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: How do I handle this?
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: So first of all, you have to triage the kid
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: situation because it is never, ever, ever, ever, ever appropriate
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to talk about the other parent to your children in
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: a negative way ever because they are made up of
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: both of those parents and they want to love both
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: of those parents and they have the right to love
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: both of those parents. So that is extremely psychologically challenging.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: unhealthy on his part. And I would set boundaries around that. Um,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: you know, that it's, it's never let, just at least
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: let him know that it's never appropriate to bring the
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: kids involved. He's allowed to have whatever opinion of you
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: he wants to have, but it's, it's going pretty low
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: to try to make those kids have that same opinion.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: And so, I mean, there's honestly not a tough, a
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: lot you can do with that. I should say there's
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: not a lot you can do with that. I mean,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: family court's not going to care that you guys are
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: talking crap about, or that he's talking crap. Just don't do,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: don't do it back. Do not say a negative word
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: about their dad to them. Just say, I'm sorry that
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: that made you feel bad. I can understand why that
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: hurt to hear those things.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I'm so sorry.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: Just acknowledge their experiences and love them. And then what
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I will say is, yeah, you probably shouldn't have asked
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: that question. I mean, if you guys are truly separated
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: to move on, Like you are in divorce proceedings or whatnot.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: Or already divorced. She just called him her ex.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So it would be an appropriate question if you guys
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: are trying to make it work.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Then it would be like, oh, who are you talking to?
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Right. That's part of intimacy and relationships is that we
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: reveal pieces of our life. And I think if you
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: are in an intimate relationship where you're at the point
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: of having children, living together, engaged, moving in together. sharing
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: those things and giving up your right to privacy is expected.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, in marriage, there's really not much privacy and
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't expect there to be. So yeah, you probably
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: overstepped a little bit, but his reaction was definitely inappropriate
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: given that there were children involved. And he could have
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: totally texted you and just been like, hey, I think
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that that was not appropriate. I think you overstepped a
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: little bit and I think we need to have boundaries.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: So he's dealing with some major types of insecurity. I
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: don't know what's underneath the hood there, but you need
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: to triage the kid's situation first and make sure that
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: they feel psychologically okay. Step up and be like, don't
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: be saying this in front of the kids. That's damaging
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: to them. You can have whatever feelings you want about me,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: communicate them however you want to me without the kids around.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: And then you can decide if that's in line with
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: your boundaries or not. And then you can go full
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: low contact.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: You need to.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Don't ask that question again.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Only talk about the kids.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: And maybe it was innocent.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Like, I can understand, like, walking in, especially, like, if
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: you have a good relationship with your ex and be like, oh,
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: who are you talking to? Or, you know, but still,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: it's just best if there's still some turmoil.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: Just don't. Just don't. I wouldn't.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Okay. Hello, Dr.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: Sarah Hensley. Is this an example of well-done emotional completion?
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: When you're experiencing a heartbreak or grief, to let yourself
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: cry your eyes out instead of numbing or disassociating, feeling
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: the pain and telling yourself that you are sad right now,
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: but you will be okay and this too shall pass.
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your precious mind. That's the flow.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Yes, with a caveat. It is
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: good that you felt through those feelings. It's good that
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: you let them come through your body. It's good that
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: you were, you know, acknowledging that these things are temporary.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: My question would be, did that self-talk help you feel safe?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And then we can get into the part where we're
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: thinking too much while we're trying to feel, and then
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: we don't actually really integrate the emotional experience. Because feeling
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: emotions is all about attention on the body and really
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: just allowing feelings to be there and move through you.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And so... That self-talk may be.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: A form of kind of conditioned safety, but we don't
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: want to be too much in our head when we're
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: trying to, because then essentially we can kind of talk
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: ourselves out of feeling the way that we do and
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: then we don't actually let go. that energy move through
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: us to completion. So emotional completion is all about attention
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: on the body with conditioned safety, trying not to think
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: too much, trying to just feel through it. You know,
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: almost like in meditation when, you know, you find your
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: mind wandering, you want to just bring the attention back
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: to your body. It's the same principle.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's some things, there's some ways you feel
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: after you have emotional completion.
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: Explain some of those things.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: You should feel very tired because emotion is energy in motion.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: And when we get to the sort of, we can
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: be kind of frozen and then we can drop down
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: into more fight or flight energy. And crying is a
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: way to release some of that energy. And so we
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: should feel an energy shift. when we've completed emotions. And
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: usually when people really start doing it correctly, fatigue is
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: a big side effect. I would say that's the most
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: negative side effect people have to deal with. It's like,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I'm so tired. I just want to take a nap.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, yeah, because you've been running on adrenaline
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: for so long in this fight or flight state. And
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: your body is learning that it doesn't need to have
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: a baseline of running on adrenaline and cortisol and all
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: of the things. So yeah, you will feel tired, but
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that wears off. Your body learns how to adjust to
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: run off regular old glucose or ketones or whatever you
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: got going on.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, it'll learn.
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I've experienced both too, where like I've cried, I've
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: had a really good hard cry and it's felt, I've
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: felt the release versus like a really good hard cry
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: and I'm like sweating and like stressed and like I
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: don't feel as good afterwards. I would say that when
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: I have a good emotionally processing cry and I am tired,
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: but I feel like this weight is lifted off my shoulders.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty exhausted even the next day after I have
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: a huge emotional release. And I think that there's probably
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: some evolutionary components to that. Like our body is telling
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: us to rest because we've had too much emotional stress.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So once we release it, it's like the body's natural
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: inclination to rest.
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: So yeah. Yeah.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Just rest, baby.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. Pride out and rest.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: It's not always an option in the life that we live, though.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: No, it's not. Yeah, life is demanding.
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: Okay. Trying so hard to trust my DA husband, but
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: there is this ache in my gut that he isn't
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: wholly faithful to me.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I feel like I'm crazy.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Maybe he isn't cheating, but my gut says he has
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: female contacts he shouldn't have or that he is misleading
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: women just as entertainment. Is this a common feeling? There's
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: zero evidence of it, though, and I know a lot
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: of people who would tell on him, friends, et cetera,
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: that work with him. Are we non-DAs just wired to
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: assume that that's happening when a man feels emotionally withdrawn?
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: He must be cheating.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: My husband and I have been through it, but things
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: are a ton better than they once were. But I
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: can't seem to just shake that fear.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a tough one. One, intuition is very powerful.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: It is extremely powerful. However, our attachment wounds can screw
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: with our intuition a little bit where, you know, if
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: you have this wound around betrayal, if you're an FA,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: you know, I expect everybody to betray me. Peace can
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: kind of disrupt that. You're going to be hypervigilant and
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: being like, where is the, where's the betrayal, right? And
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: someone who's neglecting you inherently, there is some betrayal associated
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: with neglect. So It's not unreasonable that your brain might
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: go to, well, maybe because there's neglect, there's someone else.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: But you can only operate within the evidence that you have, right?
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And you need to be able to work on your
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: own nervous system so that your nervous system is a
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: good compass. Again, I can't say it more. Your nervous system,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: when in a healthy state, when in a baseline of
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: non-threatening activity, ventral vagal safety.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: It's a good compass.
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: When your nervous system is chronically dysregulated because you're in
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: a bad relationship and or most of the time and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: you have insecure attachment, you can't trust it. And questioning
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: your own intuition, that's the thing that'll make you the craziest.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: That'll make you go absolutely bonkers.
• 24:11
  Speaker 4: I have a friend that I'm trying to walk through
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: this right now where she's like, I need to reach out.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: She has an XDA and she feels this need for closure.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: But I'm like, where is that coming from? Isn't the
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: closure just that you guys broke up and he's never,
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: other than maybe like a like on a picture, like
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: he's never tried to reach back out and seek any
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: type of connection?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of times in life when we have
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: to make our own closure because we can't rely on
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: somebody else to give us something that they are not
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: capable of themselves giving. You can't, you know... squeeze water
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: from a dry spout. Like you can't do it. And
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: so the only answer to that is you giving up
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the need for it. And that has to be work
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you do within yourself that you say, listen, someone's behavior
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: sometimes is the closure. My radical acceptance of their bad
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: behavior is the closure. It's their lack of capacity is
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the closure. Not having closure does not keep you from
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: moving on. It's, you'll convince yourself that it does. It's
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: something we want, but it's not something that most people
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: can give if they're insecurely attached.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: And that's what I told her.
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: I'm like, you could seek that out and not find
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: it anyway, or potentially just get back. I mean, this
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: was like a very long three to four year long
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: relationship where it was just the constant DA cycle, constant
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: DA cycle. And I'm like, you risk getting back into
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: that when you've already removed yourself and you've done the work.
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: What triggered it in her was she had a dream
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: about him. And I'm like, that is not– don't let
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: that fool you. Don't let that tell you that that's
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: what– like that you need to reach out to him
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: because that's just your subconscious.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, God told Lot and his wife, don't look back, right?
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And she did, and we all know what happened to her.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: She turned into the salt. So sometimes in life when
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: you're already a little bit removed, you just need to
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: keep trudging forward and not look back.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: And she's made so much– growth in it. And I'm like,
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: don't go back. I even told her, she was like,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: I'm like, she was like, well, I've had this urge
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: to really reach out to him.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: I'm like, every time you have that urge, just text
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: me and I'll talk you through it.
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Sometimes we have to do that. Sometimes we have to
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: lean on our support systems a little bit when we
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: start having weak moments and remind ourselves to go back
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: to the work that we've been doing and not continue
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to go backwards.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: Because it's so easy to get snapped backwards.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like you said, like it's
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: just that constant questioning of like, and that's what she's doing.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: She's questioning all these like.
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: Little things. Yeah, like signs or, you know.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And also once you start learning about attachment theory and
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: you see it, what happens to so many people is
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: they go, oh my gosh, I did everything wrong.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Because I had a DA partner.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: If I could have just responded so much differently to them,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: then we could have had a better relationship. Well, maybe,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: but there's all tons of damage that's already been done.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: And you can't undo that just because you know better now.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: And so most of the time, it's probably the right
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: decision to just keep moving on versus lose all of
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that healing, backtrack, get yourself into a relationship where someone
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: may or may not respond to your new security. And
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: most of the time when people do earn their security,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: they lose attraction for those people. It's a huge sign
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: that you've become secure is when you look at your
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: ex and you go, ugh.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: How was I ever into him?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: How?
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: How?
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: What was I thinking?
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: Right? Yes. Okay. Do secure people engage in chasing or
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: proactively pursuing when someone caught their attention? Note, it doesn't
• 27:57
  Speaker 4: need to be full-on sparks or neither obsessive.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I'm not asking that.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: I'm asking about a healthy, moderate pursuing, like the one
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: that men in the 80s were expected to have towards women.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I think we should continue to keep up that expectation
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that men should pursue women.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, healthy, secure partners pursue. In fact, they're very
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: honest about their intentions, what they want, and they're freaking consistent.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: They are not going to leave you feeling confused. They
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: are not going to dip their toe in it. They
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: are going to keep things at a healthy pace for sure.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: They're going to take you out on a date. They're
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: going to let you know that they like you. Secure
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: people aren't afraid to share that information. And then they're
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: going to be consistent. And the consistency is what you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: have to really look for. People who are secure are
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: generally pretty consistent in terms of reciprocation and energy and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: effort and temper and all of those things. If you
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: really start to see a shift, that should be your sign.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: That's your sign.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: Yep. Yep. And if you're not attracted to when that
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: person shows up that way.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: That's your red flag. That's your sign that you're the
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: red flag.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: You're the red flag.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: Exactly. Okay.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: Hensley, I'm an FA who recently started my journey to
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: become secure. I'm two months post-breakup with a DA boyfriend.
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: I've been doing your 12-week self-led course. Well, it's four weeks,
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: but it's 12 weeks of information over four weeks. I've
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: noticed that when I'm doing the breathing techniques and the neurofeedback,
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: sometimes I will randomly start crying.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Yay.
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: Yay.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good sign.
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: Even when I was not upset or sad. I'm not
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: really a person that cries a lot.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: There have been times... when I haven't cried for like
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: two or three years.
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: Wow. Now I feel like I'm crying every week, sometimes more.
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: Is this normal and what does it mean? Also, is
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: it normal when doing neurofeedback to be able to identify
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: in my body where my pain and emotions are? I
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: always feel tight in my jaw and neck. but thought
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: that was my TMJ. I don't know if I'm doing
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: this right. Thanks for any insight. Yeah.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: It sounds like you're doing it right. Cause you know,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to get to some emotional release. You're supposed
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: to be able to feel emotions and allow them to
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: release from your body. And sometimes that looks like crying.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it looks like, you know, shaking. Sometimes it looks
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: like just, you know, feelings of exhaustion and fatigue kind
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: of coming over you and just this pent up energy,
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: just kind of letting go. So yeah, I mean the solace,
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: somatic looping for attachment-centered embodiment, neurofeedback technique that I developed
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: and is proprietary from the science. And I'm going to
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: be publishing a paper on it. And part of what
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: got me my book deal, it really is meant to,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: for people who have suppressed for a really long time,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: AKA the DAs, the FAs, to be able to finally
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: release that stuff and integrate your life experiences.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it sounds like you're doing a great job.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: And of course it's going to take time, babe.
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: It will.
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Like, it's not like you're just going to cry once
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: and be like, okay.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: You can't, you can't release like a lifetime of suppressed
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: or unprocessed stuff. You'll never release it all. It's about
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: releasing enough to repressurize your nervous system into feeling like
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I'm safe enough. Hmm. You know, not like I'm safe
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: from everything that has ever happened to me in my
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: entire life.
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: If you've never processed emotion, you can't reach into that
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: file cabinet and be like, well, let me just take
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: one file at a time.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't work that way.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, your nervous system sort of compiles these life
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: experiences into sort of themes and predictions about the future.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And when you finally sort of hit on a deep
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: theme that has been painful in your life and you
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: truly start to release that, it's going to take a while,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: but eventually... those safe experiences with yourself and feeling your
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: own emotions are going to kind of override those old
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: stories that, you know, I'm not safe if this specific
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: emotion is happening inside my body.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Just keep going, babe.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: All right. My wife is hardcore F-A-E slash D-A, which
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: probably means she's F-A.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Fearful avoidant that means dismissive.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And just now really starting her healing journey with
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: new meds plus psychiatry.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: She's been the primary wedge in our marriage.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: I've instituted a policy of I'll only start couples therapy
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: and working on us once she is much further along
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: in her personal healing journey to truly be emotionally available
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: for us.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Is this the right way to handle this?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I think if there, so there's different issues here, right?
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: We have attachment and then we have mental health, right?
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: So is she dealing with anxiety, depression? Is she dealing
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: with some kind of other mental health issue that she,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: that needs stabilized first? I think giving her some room
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to have that issue addressed properly can be appropriate. I
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: think if she's truly emotionally unavailable, I just would not.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Suggest couples therapy.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: It is so triggering for them and it can set
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: you back so far because you have to think about this, guys.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: if they have wounds around vulnerability and criticism, which people
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: who are in any way dismissive, whether that's fearful, who
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: just leans to more of that dismissive side, or the
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: true dismissive avoidant, the moment they get in the couples
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: therapy chair is the moment their nervous system goes bonkers.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And a dysregulated person can't learn, and a person who
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: tends to freeze is not going to participate well. So
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: you could end up in a really bad cycle. That's
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the whole reason I created my hybrid group, because it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: not forcing them to be vulnerable or to take criticism,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: but it also gives them what they need to change.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: And they just need to be in an environment that
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: is not, a couple's therapy is just rehashing fights.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Most of the time.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, you might get some tips on, yeah, you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: shouldn't say it this way, or you shouldn't do it
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: this way, or here's maybe how to approach regulation. But
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: there's usually not a very specific protocol. Their brain only
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: works around specific protocols. This whole abstract, do this, do that,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: say this, not that, just doesn't work. And I'm just
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: really so saddened by modern-day couples therapy, couples counseling. I mean,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: it's generally, in my opinion, not that effective.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: People end up worse.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, I know that you've seen this time and
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: time again where couples come to you and they've been
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: in years of couples therapy and they're like, we're worse
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: than we ever were.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, an AP with an FA, you've got some
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: hope there, you know?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: What about two FAs?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if the therapist is very, very aware of of
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: the type of conflict cycle and dysregulation and gives them really,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: really solid tools around regulating in conflict and a really
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: solid conflict resolution protocol. But someone who's FAA-leaning dismissive with
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: a DA or with, like, I don't know. It depends
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: on how dismissive one of the partners is.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Right, right.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: And I can imagine, like, I mean, even in my
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: more avoidant moments in my life, and I've had them
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: for sure, The idea of someone forcing me into that
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: intimate of a situation to kind of expose my avoidance
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: would be like, I would reject that like the plague. Yeah.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're defensive the moment you sit down.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: The moment. The moment you sit down.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Because you're not going to feel safe with a stranger
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: criticizing you. And then you're not going to feel safe
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: with your partner criticizing you. And your brain's going to
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: not feel safe to be vulnerable in front of a
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: stranger like that. It's just for those that have that
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: real strong dismissive side, it's just not a good situation
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: for them.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Check out Dr. Hensley's hybrid group.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Which doesn't rule out that therapy cannot be beneficial for
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: some types of couples.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: It can be very beneficial. But the dismissives, no.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: No.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: It's just not going to work. I know them too
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: well and it doesn't It doesn't even make sense with
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: their nervous system.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: Well, and you've seen it.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: You've seen it over and over and over again.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, the majority of people that come to me
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and are like, couples therapy was a nightmare.
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do a couple more guys
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: and then we're going to wrap up. I'm a healing DA.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: My kid's dad says he's a healing AP. Wow. Okay.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: The kids seem very aware.
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: We just started the divorce process. A little backstory.
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: I got pregnant by complete surprise and we got married
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: when I was three months along with our first. We
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: had a really rough first few years of marriage and
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: I was not the easiest to live with eight years
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: into our marriage. My husband told me he had been
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: watching porn since right after our first child was born.
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: I was crushed as when we were dating, we both
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: agreed porn was cheating. Yes. Then the next night he
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: informed me he had an affair with a coworker a
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: few months before he told me I was upset, but
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: agreed to try to work it out. Less than six
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: months later, he had another affair with another coworker who
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: was married and in an open marriage. It was a
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: very involved affair and was off and on for a year.
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: He wants to work it out and is very pushy
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: to me about it. I don't think I will ever
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: be able to not question if he is talking to
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: someone again. How do I set boundaries and still have
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: a good co-parenting relationship? I'm not going to work it
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: out and I'm at peace with my decision to divorce.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: Thank God.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So glad about that.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: So glad about that. That's habitual.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a habitual pattern.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like once can be a mistake, like twice is
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: a pattern. So I would say go head first into
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: your own attachment security. You know, focus on healthy co-parenting.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I know everybody wants to be this freaking BFF with
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: their co-parent for the sake of their children. But a
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: lot of times there's too much pain.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: To be able to do that.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: And so do what's best for your kids, but don't
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: feel like that means you have to be some kind
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: of best friend with, your ex, you don't. You are
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: simply making decisions and only speaking about what's best for
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: the kiddo. And if he's AP and very pushy, you're
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: going to just have tons of boundaries that I'm not
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: having conversations that are about you and I. I'm only
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: having conversations about the children. And then disengage if he
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: starts to push about the relationship. You have to have
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: steadfast boundaries around we're not doing this.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: We're not getting back together.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So when you're ready to talk about the kids only,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: feel free to message me. But if it's anything other
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: than the children, I'm just not going to respond to it.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: And I highly suggest the apps, the parenting apps, where
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: you communicate over the app because text messages cannot be
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: really verified very well in family court. If you have
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: an app that can't be messed with, that's your best bet.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Because if he starts getting a lot of times people
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: that are capable of that type of deception and have
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: very high attachment anxiety can start to spiral a little
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: bit when you truly remove the possibility of the relationship
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and you need to protect yourself from that potential spiral.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: And just relinquishing the control, I think I experienced this
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: too with my ex of like, I felt like I
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: needed to be friends with him in a sense so
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: that I could change the narrative that he had of
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: me But it didn't matter. He was going to have
• 39:27
  Speaker 4: the narrative that he wanted either way. And so once
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: I accepted that, it was this, it was hard. It
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: definitely was hard to really, really let go of any
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: type of relationship. But I really felt like for a
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: long time, I need to be friends with him for
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: our kid. And then, you know, we can make sure
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: I can make sure that you know, he's not talking
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: bad about me.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: It didn't matter.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: It didn't matter. He was going to talk bad about
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: me anyway.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: If your co-parent wants to talk crap about you, they're
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: going to talk crap about you. There's nothing you can
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: do to try to prove that you are somehow now
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: worthy of not being talked about. That is their issue.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: When I finally accepted, why do I care what this
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: person who's not really even that great of a person
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: thinks of me? And once I thought that, I was like,
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: you know what? Okay.
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: It kind of clicked.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Worry about what your kid thinks of you.
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Don't worry about what your ex thinks of you.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: And the best thing you can do there is just
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: don't do the same thing.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Don't.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: No.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Because I promise you guys, kids realize by the time
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: they're 9, 10, they really.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: Start to get it.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: They really start to go, oh, wow. When I'm with mom,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: she doesn't talk bad about my dad. She doesn't pressure
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: me about what happens at dad's house. She doesn't, you
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: know– make me feel bad for loving my dad, I
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: feel safer with mom versus when I'm with dad and
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: dad talks about mom bad.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And I mean, my own oldest child recalls all of this.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Absolutely.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I am made to feel guilty for loving
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: my mom or my dad talks bad about my mom.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: And it could go the other way too, right?
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I've personally been involved in situations where, you know,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: the dad is definitely the better parent and doesn't talk
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: crap about the mom and the mom just can't help it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: But talk bad.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Gender isn't an issue here.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: It can go absolutely both ways. It is not, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: an issue.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: We just have personal experiences with ours.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: So, okay, last one, guys. This is a good one. Curious.
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: For people who have reached their security, how long did
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: it take you and how long does it typically take
• 41:34
  Speaker 4: once you start doing the work consistently?
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: And any comments, welcome from DAs or APs. I'm FA,
• 41:41
  Speaker 4: so asking for reference.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I wish humans were math problems, but they're not math problems.
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: And so the answer is, you know, anywhere from four
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: months to two years, depending upon how severe you are
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: when you start, how much you are engaged with the tools.
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: All right, guys, that was the last one. And we
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: just thank everyone who writes into our clients and community group.
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: We do these episodes once a month. So please, if
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: you've got a question, go ahead, write into that group.
• 42:10
  Speaker 4: You can also write into me personally, Raina at drsarah.love.
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: And I will also bring your questions to Dr. Hensley.
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: But please go join the Facebook clients and community group.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: Continue to tune in, like, subscribe, follow, leave us a comment.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: And until next time, peace, love, and perspective.