Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Michael Ambrose | Country Manager, Nnormal & The Evolution of Trail Running

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Michael Ambrose | Country Manager, Nnormal & The Evolution of Trail Running · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, guys?
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we've got something really exciting, fun and special for you all.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: None other than Michael Ambrose joins the podcast, the country manager in the United States for Normal that's right, normal, qualian Jourdain, his brand pretty awesome.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: One of the fastest growing, if not the fastest growing shoe and apparel brands in our sport.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Right now, it's a really exciting time to be with that brand.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: So it was fun to sit down and talk to Mike about everything he's currently doing and some future plans for what they've got down the pipeline, which is pretty exciting.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We also talked to Mike all about his background.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: He has pretty storied history in our sport, formerly working for Salomon in the marketing group, as well as a product line manager.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: We talk all about how he brought the Solomon Ultra Glide to life, as well as one of the most notable signings pretty much the signing of Michael Jordan in our sport was when he signed in 2016 Courtney DeWalter, which is kind of wild.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: We also dive deep into Mike's background as an athlete.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: The dude is a stud, he's a competitor and I love to hear that.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: So he's kind of a stud athlete in his own right.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: So it was fun to talk about some of his past races and things that he's done in the past so pretty exciting.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Mike is a really, really interesting character in our sport.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It's crazy he's only a few years older than me, but I feel like he's lived an entire lifetime getting to just meet and work with and interact with just some of the best athletes in our sport and just make such a big impact.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this one.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: We are live.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Mike Ambrose.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Steep Stuff Pod.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: How are you?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me Doing great Thanks.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah man, how's your?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: day, week, everything going.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been busy.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: It's a busy time of year in the running industry.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: We're getting ready for the running event which comes up in a month, and it's kind of in between seasons of spring 25 and fall 25.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: So it's just a really, really busy time for planning.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: We're also planning 2025 budgets.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: So it's been a busy week and busy month.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Wow, so you're Leadville man.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Welcome out to the Front Range.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: First of all, I know you've got a busy day ahead of you.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been warm.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I was just at your way last weekend and I was like, wow, I ran up quandary.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: So just on the other side it's been a warm, warm October.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It's been weird.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been strangely warm.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I know, um, like seven years ago when I got married, you know it was snowing in September on my wedding and uh, you know, 10 years ago, just living in Leadville, it was always seemed to be snowy this time of year.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: So it the high country, you know, no problem, and yeah, it's still.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: It's still great for running, but I think the skiing is still a bit away.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no big time.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Do you ski at all?
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: Cross country ski Mostly, yeah, same, same.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Dude, I just got to set roller skis.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Oh no, no, it's terrifying, it's, it's all right.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: So I'm in the Springs and like we don't, uh, there's not a lot of like paved bike paths, if you will.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Um, so I'm like, and like I'm like going around my neighborhood and these things people are driving past me, like what is this guy doing?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I had a lady stop me, um, and like it's like is everything okay?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, one of my, my good buddies, is a six years ago, and then, as soon as, like, I moved away from him, I sold him immediately, cause those things are just, they just terrify me and I mean they're great tools, right, they're amazing, but uh, just not not for me.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I just uh, I can't quite figure them out.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I feel like the skis, I feel like snow is easier in my opinion.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean great, I've been on them, but yeah, still still super fun.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: So, dude, you're very influential person in the sport.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Um, I think a lot of people definitely know who you are.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So for those who don't, maybe introduce yourself and talk a little bit about your background.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so, um, mike Ambrose has already talked about uh, right now I'm the country manager for normal.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Uh, so normal, you know, brand new trail run outdoor brand, run outdoor brand that was started by Killian Jornay and Camper.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: So my job with Normal here in the US is basically as an employee.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: One of one is everything that you could think of to start a brand and build a brand in a country.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: So it's a little bit of sales, commercial, marketing, supply chain, logistics, a little bit of HR and legal in there too when we're hiring new people.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: So it's a pretty all-encompassing position and I think the reason it was a really good fit for me and the reason Normal brought me on board was everything I've done in the industry to this point has gotten me here.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: So, to go through my background, I started off working in a run specialty shop in Breckenridge, colorado.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: At the same time I was working for the Ultra race of champions, which at the time went from Breckenridge to Vail.
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: It was part of the sky running world final.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: So I got a nice, uh nice intro into like global trail running by working with sky running at the time, uh, in this event series.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, shortly after that I became a tech rep for Solomon in new England.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: So I started working for Solomon uh, just, you know, being the cool guy that shows up to events and shops and hands out hats and mugs and gets shoes on people's feet which was an amazing experience too.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: So, you know, at this point I'd seen it from the retail side a little bit of sports marketing, a little bit of event side.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Now I'm like into, you know, driving sales and shops.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Then also, you know really grassroots marketing, you know activations.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: And then I was brought in-house at Solomon to be the Solomon Marketing Associate for the whole category.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: So I moved out to Utah and oversaw, you know, a very entry-level marketing type role for Solomon in all categories, quickly became the brand manager for Solomon Endurance.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: So that was now we're.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: We went from 2014 to 2017.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Um, and then, you know, as brand manager is basically, yeah, marketing manager for North America for endurance, which was trail running uh, a little bit of road running at the time that Solomon was into not fully like it is now and then also Nordic ski.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: So that was super cool.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: Uh, did that for two years and then stayed with solomon.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: But they offered me a job over in france, uh, as a product line manager for trail running, so kind of overseeing the, the product marketing side of bringing a product, a trail shoe, to life, uh, globally there.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So I moved over to france for three years, from 2019 to 2022, which was amazing Also really interesting because 2020 is a year that's in between there and we all know what happened during that time and then came back to the US after my contract was up and became the commercial manager for Solomon North America so now we've seen it from stores, marketing, product development, commercial management and actually left Solomon for a brief stint at Black Diamond.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Black Diamond was getting into the footwear space.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I think it's since been a little, maybe on pause.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: So I worked with Black Diamond for eight months to help bring footwear to life there.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure what's happened there I can't speak to it a hundred percent but around Christmas in 2022, right around Christmas, um, killian and his longtime agent, uh, jordy, who's now the brand director of normal, uh reached out and said they were interested in hiring a country manager for normal and I thought about it a lot.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I just started with black diamond and had an amazing team there and, uh, you know, really loved what I was doing there and wasn't looking to leave, but you know, I was thinking about it really holistically and I was like, well, everything I've done in my career has gotten me to this point of, you know, managing a brand in a country in all different elements, so all those different facets that I mentioned.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: It just to me felt like a really good fit.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: I worked with Killian a lot at Solomon from the marketing side, the product side, emily as well, so it was just.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: It was just a really really good fit, I think, and so I made the jump to normal in February 2023.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: So we're coming up on two years now.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Wow, dude, what an experience.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: We can dive into all that stuff.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: That's the LinkedIn for you.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that and we're going to dissect all of it, but like what a great Christmas present to have someone reach out to you at KJ and be like yo, like this is the something we're thinking about.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: So that's and, like I said, one of the reasons I reached out to you.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, you and I obviously had met when you were at the Colorado running company and you had some shoes on, just like I don't know to me, being in the space, being an athlete in the space, knowing the brands, I just I don't know to me I thought it was one of the coolest jobs in the sport.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So that's why I had to talk to you.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: So, damien, let's unpack that.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And one of the things first, before we get into kind of your experience, everything like I think a lot of people that are interested in the space or just breaking into the space, um, you know, could really be inspired by your story in a lot of ways.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Like you started, as you said, a tech rep right, and then, at Solomon, kind of worked your way up into this amazing role and it's just I don't know what a cool story.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's been, it's been fun.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: You know I never, never, thought of myself getting into the running industry or business at all.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: You know I, I grew up in New Jersey.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: I think we we share that similar geographical bond there Uh, spent a lot of my summers at the beach.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: You know I was really into I mean I was, I wasn't really into the outdoors, I was into surfing a lot.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: You know I got into that.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, as a teenager uh, kind of gotten to running a little bit in college, but I was never, I was never really a runner.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You know I played every other sport, like most most American kids.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know trail running, mountain running.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: You know mountaineering that was never on my, my radar, or like I could never have even imagined that.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: And and even now, you know, from business side, like I studied psychology in school and ended up coming out to Colorado with a bunch of friends, cause we got drunk one night in Vermont and we're like let's quit our jobs and move to Colorado.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: You know it's just like.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: You know, cause we just started to get into into into running and trail running and just wanted to do it more.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: You know, and I, you know, at one point.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to run as much as possible, like that.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: That was my sole focus, was like I need to live someplace, do some job.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: You know, I worked in coffee shops, retail jobs.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like I just want to run in the mountains, like that was that was it?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: You know, I never thought that you know the guy I was watching in Solomon TV episodes in my apartment in Philly before moving to Colorado would be you know someone that I I guess you could say working for and and and what's happening with and uh, and you know, and helping build his brand.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just, it's just crazy and it's hard for me to even, uh, even believe it.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: It's real sometimes.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: It's funny, man, like, like I like, as a student of the sport and someone who just genuinely loves the sport, it is so weird to me when I meet like I don't know, like I've met francois a few times when I meet these people, I'm just like yo, like that's, that's really wild, like I definitely look up to you in a lot of ways, so it's just really interesting.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, when you get to meet, I don't know when you meet your heroes and stuff like that.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Anton's a great example too.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: So, so people like that, um, so dude Philly, uh, it's so funny Like we have a very similar connection there.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Like I grew up in Bucks County, um, and you were talking about how you're from Jersey.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Do you ever go down to like Wildwood or anything like that?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, actually a lot of.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Um, I went to high school pretty close to the beach there.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: I went to a private high school and a lot of summers down there.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I've been to wildwood quite a bit north wildwood, yeah.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: So my dad grew up, so that's why I asked yeah yeah, cool, cool town.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: So surfing dude talk about that.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Like how did you, did you find that as a kid?
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Or like what?
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I, I kind of did.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Um, I think I was in like the fifth or sixth grade.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Uh, we were doing a at that time.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I was living closer to phil Jersey and we did a summer, summer vacation down in the at the, at the beach in Jersey.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I won't use the word Jersey shore, cause I hate that.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I hate what that brings.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But, um, at the beach in Jersey and, uh, I took like a surfing lesson and then, uh, getting into middle school and high school, uh, just having more friends that lived by the beach, I just got got into it.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I thought it was just another, I don't know, it just became like a pretty big part of me.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: You know, something like kind of like running, where I was like I just wanted to do it every day and then it came down to like, you know, getting houses at the summer with friends and like that's all I really wanted to do.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: All day was just like you know, get off work and surf before the sun went down.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Or I had jobs, sometimes working late till four in the morning, and we'd stay up and surf when the sun was kind of coming up, and I don't know.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: I guess in a sense it was like very similar that I just that's all I wanted to do, right, like I just consumed me.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And then I at some point running kind of took over, where I just once I discovered trail and mountain running, I was like, oh, I could.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: Just, it just kind of became the next thing that I was super into.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, but still, surfing has a has a big part of like really fond memories with friends and and still a sport that I follow and you know I look to for like parallels to and in marketing and product and just the way the industry reacts to change and things.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I still I still go back in and look at surfing.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know, it's just uh, it's kind of funny that that that was something that you know.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I think it also it also led me to get into running, cause it was very I liked surfing, cause I liked being part of the natural world, I liked the, the inspiration of just like being moved by nature, and now I think running is just a different medium for that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, I mean, I think Doug Mayer said it best like in his book it's a soul sport, you know.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: So like that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know Doug's, one of my best friends.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know Doug's, one of my best friends, oh really Okay, yeah, yeah, and we'll talk about Rod the Alps in a little bit, but like, yeah, just like his book is great and and his, just the things that he he also he did a great podcast with uh was Finn Melanson for the single track and just talking about the just having that discussion, that it is a soul sport and you can draw a lot of parallels between the two.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, man, I um there's so much to dive into.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I have like so many questions for you, um, so maybe we can fast forward.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: I think one of the big things that I want to talk about is like your career with solomon, because I just think it's it's just like textbook, so neat how you're able to start as this tech rep and we could talk about that and just kind of work your way up, and we could talk about just kind of how it evolved from there.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Um, um, and we'll talk about the ultra glide too.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: It's something I want to talk about also.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, maybe like discuss like what a tech rep is and kind of like how how that opportunity came to you and from there.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So anyone who's listening that wants to get into it.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: Uh, tech reps also, I think, synonymous now with, like community leader or um, community marketing manager, like a lot of them some not every company uses the same terminology.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: It used to all be tech rep, like Brooks had tech reps, hoke had tech reps, sakuni everyone had tech reps.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: So that's what that was.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: So if you're looking around, that term can be interchangeable.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: But the main point of being a tech rep is to go to dealers, go to retailers, go to local events and be the face of the brand by.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: You know talking about the product, you know product clinics, you know this is the drop, this is the weight, this is who it's good for.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And also putting shoes on people's feet through through demos.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Right, it's a, it's a very entry level job, but it's, I think.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I think it's the best job in the industry for sure.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Like you know, myself and a bunch of industry friends, when we get together, like at the running event or we see each other at Western States, we're like remember we were at TechRest man, that was awesome Because it's fun.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: You know, you get to travel around in your territory.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: You know, for me it was New England, so I had kind of like Connecticut, connecticut, to like Western Vermont, to Bar Harbor, maine, so I had this kind of this nice New England pocket and yeah, you're just basically you're the face of the brand and it's a really great learning opportunity.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: You work a lot with the sales rep too, so the person that's actually selling the product, and you can learn a lot about just the selling cycles and you know selling tactics and there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff that goes into selling product and it's a really good way to learn both sales marketing and when you are a tech rep.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: If you want to go into sales, it's a great segue.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: If you want to go into marketing, it's also a great segue.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: So it's it's a great entry-level job that that has a lot of opportunity to to grow and and have a lot of fun while you're doing it Wow.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it's such a such a I don't know.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I thought it was really really cool.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So from there you're starting at this, you know, at the kind of the ground floor, and it was from there you jumped to Ogden right when you moved to Ogden, correct, yeah, okay, how did that like?
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: How does that opportunity come to be and what is that role you move into?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: So you know, I think you know, before even coming onto Salomon, I was a big, just Salomon nerd.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I think there were a lot of us around 2013, 2014,.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: Like glued to Salomon TV, the S-Lab kit TV, the S lab kit, like it was.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It was just, I mean, it is a cool brand, it's an amazing brand, but at the time I think they were just like the pioneers in content and media.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I get goosebumps even thinking about, like, waiting for Solomon TV to drop, and I was such a fan boy of Solomon and I took a lot of that passion into the job.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: You know, to leave Colorado to go to Boston, you know, for a kid who wanted to run up a mountain every day, like it was a big, you know, it was a pretty big jump, but I just I wanted to be a part of Solomon, I wanted to get into the industry.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: So I think that passion just showed every time that I interfaced with anyone in the office in Ogden anytime, you know, I was at a sales meeting or they came out for retail tours and I was just, you know, there interacting with them.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I think that that passion and love for it just, and work ethic, just, you know was really apparent.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: So when this job opened up at at ethic, just you know was really apparent.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: So when this job opened up at uh, at headquarters in Ogden, you know I was, I was recommended by a lot of the team and, you know, went through a pretty, pretty long interview process but they're like hey, you know we have this job in Ogden, do you want to come back back out and to go back West?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Was, was, was, awesome.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Leadville, no but yeah, it was just like I don't know I'll say this about every job that I keep getting but it was like a dream come true, you know, to be in the office now now you're in the mothership and actually a guy who I worked with, josh Korn, a longtime trail runner, nordic skier, the guy with the roller, like a he was like a sports marketing guy for Solomon.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know his exact title, but I met him in 2013 at the rock Creek stump jump and he gave me my first era pair of Solomon's Solomon's B cross three and like bright yellow, excuse me.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, I always looked up to him.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: You know he was like the cool guy.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You know he was a he's, he's an amazing, amazing athlete, amazing runner.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: But then now I'm like working with him in the office and now we're, like you know, best friends.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: He works for normal now too, which is cool, but like it was just cool to be around these people.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: That inspired me and you know it was like I was part of the magic and yeah, it was.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: It was just amazing to now be a part of like sports marketing conversations, marketing campaign conversations.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: You know, working with athletes, working with events, uh, working with, like big retailers.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It was just, um, yeah, it was, it was a dream come true, and and I now I started to kind of think about, well, now my job is to like, spread this magic right and and to keep, keep, keep the gasoline on the fire for Solomon, and that was really, really motivating and inspiring for me, wow dude, and on your to the point of like Solomon TV.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: That was like one of the first things I found when I came.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: So it's funny, we're around the same age you're a few years older than me, but you entered the sport way before I did so I came into like 2018, 2019, probably 2019.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: So Solomon TV had already been out and, dude, I'll never forget watching the Mount marathon video that Killian did and I was like, whoa, I need to do this race and just I don't know all the aura and everything surrounding that.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Um, and I can remember watching the golden trail series.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Uh, I think it was like 20, it might've been 2019.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was the year when Killian came out to, uh, the Pikes Peak marathon and won it and they did like a whole uh, those videos were just so well done.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I, especially for me being like I love sub ultra don't get me wrong, I love the ultra side of the sport, but my heart does love it Like lion sub ultra.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So all of the cool things that they did surrounding, you know, mont Blanc marathon and just series and all of those races was just like very special.
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Solomon TV was just.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was truly it was.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: It was the pioneer, for I think you know a lot of the running media and storytelling too.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean that's what I talked to, uh, dean Leslie, who was one of the first you know, directors, producers of use, part of the African attachment, and they did a lot of the original Solomon TVs like trail, dog and and the movie about Bill Duper and things, and uh, the one thing that we talk about a lot was just like the storytelling component to it.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: It wasn't, it was about running, but it wasn't about running too, uh, which I thought was super cool.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Even like Mount marathon, there was still, um, obviously there's the performance of the race, but the way Ricky kind of narrates it and tells the story about it, I think is is is really cool and I don't know, yeah, I don't know what it was at the time, but it was.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: I feel like maybe that some of that storytelling has fallen off, but they were, yeah, they were truly like they were the pioneers in it.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: For sure Big time.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: And just like I don't know they I feel like as a consumer and as an athlete, like those are the people you're looking up to and it's almost like just one-to-one, like they're telling this amazing story doing these amazing races.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Of course you're going to run in their shoes, of course you're going to wear their stuff, you know.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I just feel, and you know, even like onto that too, you know, on the normal side of the house, like I think you guys are doing a very unique and just exciting job at the athletes you're signing one and two, just like the apparel and shoes you're putting out there, and it's telling an amazing story.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: I find that like very interesting because there's not as many brands in the space right now doing that kind of thing.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: If you will like, very pure brand marketing.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're lucky too.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: We're still a really small brand.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we come off a lot bigger just because we have we have the goat, you know, as a founder and athlete representing the brand, and a lot of great athletes too on the team.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: But you know, we're still really small, so we can be, we can be agile.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: You know we're still really small, so we can be, we can be agile.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: You know we can quickly pivot to tell a different type of story.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Um, and yeah, we're just, we're just really agile with it.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: So we can, we can kind of cater to the storytelling, to what we want and what we want to achieve as a company.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Uh, which is kind of, you know, we know what we want to do as a company.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Right, we want to inspire people to respect and enjoy nature, Like that's first and foremost what we want to do, and then we can, we can find different ways to do it quickly and we can adapt, you know, year to year with with athletes, races or projects, and that's the beauty of being part, you know, part of a small company.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's super cool.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: All right, so I'm going to pivot back.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I keep, I'm all over the place.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pivot back to Solomon.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: So when you were at Solomon one of the you here to ask this I read an outside article that in 2016, you were one of the people that signed Courtney.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is, that is correct.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I I offered her a first contract, so it was actually.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: It was interesting.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, going into 2016, the summer of 2016, into the fall, uh, I met with our global sports marketing uh manager at the time, greg Valet, uh founder of the golden trail series, and we were kind of looking at the future of Solomon and the sport and we realized that, like, women were going to be the next generation, that's the next thing in the sport right, that we want to be the brand that would and I hate saying it like this, cause I sound like a guy in madmen trying to sell cigarettes to a woman in the sixties but it was like we have to win with women.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Like I hate saying it that way, like it's not, but we wanted to be that brand that told really great stories with women and we knew that some of the athletes on the team you know we had such great legends, you know it's Stevie and Anna and Emily, like just, and there's others for sure but we knew that their, their time in the spotlight was probably going to come to an end in a couple of years.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Like, we knew that, either from a race side or maybe just their personal lives like they.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: They not that we were phasing out of them, it was just like, well, we just want to make sure we have the next, the next generation, coming up.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, same with the male runners too.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: But, uh, so we, we made it a point, we were working with, uh, adam chase too at the time on the sports marketing side, and we're like, okay, we need to find the next, you know five to 10 women and we'll see if they're interested in running for Solomon.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And over the next few months, like, we basically just created a list.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we were just trying to find, you know, next gen talent, and Courtney was one of them.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Addie Bracey was another.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Corinne Malcolm was another that we all offered contracts to.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, adam and I compared lists and we found some that aligned.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, adam and I compared lists and we found some that aligned.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: And then I, yeah, I remember just I don't know if it was on Facebook or I forget exactly Maybe I just emailed Courtney or texted her or something and offered her a spot on the team and, yeah, that was fall, 2026.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm sorry, 2016,.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I got future in my brain after the budget meetings today.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: And then it was funny because I knew a little bit about her not nearly as much as I do now.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: She's one of my best friends and we're neighbors more or less.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: We live in Leadville, so everyone's kind of neighbors but I remember getting her product and she's like I need men's mediums or larges and I thought that was super funny.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Uh, clothing or sorry, yeah, and we wanted to get her uh gear for a race that was coming up and I was like okay, and I went down to the we had like a solomon store in the office and I was like grabbing every men's medium and large.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: I think I sent her like extra larges too, which I definitely don't fit courtney, but um, yeah, and I remember like sending her a box the next day and she signed over a contract and she was on the team and that was, yeah, fall november 2016.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, my gosh dude.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: So like that's the beginning of the long shorts, I would imagine.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of how that came before we even knew it.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she just wanted.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: She wanted baggy shorts and I was like all right, cool, let's, let's get her get what she needs.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so crazy, and so you, and did you have that connection through leadville at the time too, or no?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: no, no, uh, leadville.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Uh, when, when court moved up there, uh, briefly after, there became a WhatsApp group called, uh, let's get Mike back to Leadville and I was, I had just moved to France and I and I'm not sure exactly when they moved up there, but uh, you know, I would come back sometimes during the summer to to go in the mountains and see friends, and we'd get together in Leadville and it was kind of like, uh, it was just a slow burn to get me back to Leadville.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: She knew how passionate I was about living there over the years, just catching up about it, and then once I finally were for normal, could live anywhere, it was like, yeah, move back to Leadville, yeah.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Dude.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: That's so great and the reason it like it strikes out and it's so crazy to me is cause, like you know, courtney's career is just like just exploded in a lot of ways.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: So to me as an athlete and as someone that's just like a pure fan of the sport, I kind of look at that as possibly the biggest signing in in our sports history.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I in a lot of ways looking back on it, it's kind of wild.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's funny.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I've been asked a lot about her over the years Cause I've I've paced her at hard rock and there I was in one of the Solomon videos with her, and so a lot of people reach out and ask me about Courtney and I I always knew she'd be great, like I always knew.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I just knew deep down inside she had the mental and physical components Right and and I remember telling my boss I'm like this girl's going to win Western States, she's probably gonna win UTMB, she could probably win hard rock and but I'd never thought that she would be this dominant right.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: I mean who, who could go?
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, literally.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, I knew she'd be an amazing athlete and transform the sport in a lot of ways, but I could never have guessed this Like I can't take credit for that I mean also.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: she's the one running it, and I just but I, you know, I think the one thing that with with court, you know I just always believed in her.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: You know I always believed in her, at times, you know, even more than I even believed in myself, kind of thing, like I just always believed in her and always, you know, was rude I still refer, you know, a million percent and it's just been.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: It's been incredible to watch and I couldn't be happier for her and her and Kevin and and for the sport too, to to witness it.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like dude, what a time to be in the sport and witness this is so wild.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, wild, yeah, that's cool.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you breathe?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Were you, uh, at hard rock last year to pace, or two, or?
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: yeah, yeah, it's last three years.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, last three years.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Wow, that's pretty cool man.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun, it's fun, and maybe, maybe we'll go back this year.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, we haven't we haven't talked about it, but uh, we'll see.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now you're.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: You're quite the runner yourself and I've had some like crazy, really good finishes.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Like I'm not going to lie, Like your Kendall mountain race is was like I mean, you're three months off Jackson Cole, who's, I mean, to me, one of the better mountain runners in the country right now, like he's, he's a monster.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: And Jeff Cuno, who you beat which.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: So I mean I'm just going to say, like you, you've got some, some crazy results yourself what's funny after that?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: after that kendall uh, dakota was running too, yeah, yeah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And we all camped out together before the race and and someone's like hi, you know, dakota only beat you by like 13 or 15 minutes.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: I'm like yeah, but that's a minute per mile difference, like, that's like he smoked me.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Like what are you like?
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm flattered, that's great, but like yeah, like no, he totally smoked me.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, we were all.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: We were laughing about that at the bar after yeah, that's funny.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, dude, like, seriously, like me a walk I've got you ran under 10 hours of black Canyon.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Did you ever consider yourself Like?
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you have this great presence as on the marketing side of the business, but like, did you ever pursue, like, possibly being like a professional athlete in the sport?
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: So is this?
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: This is funny, I mean, yeah, I mean I've always, like, had those ambitions for sure, a lot of it's just like I want to get the best out of myself and whatever that is, and live up to whatever potential.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: I believe or maybe there's some external validation in there, maybe I'm not sure, but I was actually a member of the old Pearl Zoom Ultra team back in 2013 or 2014.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I think myself this is funny I think I was the last person to get signed.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Scott Himey signed me and I think I was the last one that added the team and then Seth Swanson was added right after me.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I think they made an exception for him and we've had different trajectories.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: For sure he's an animal, but that was a fun time.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I had like a year, year and a half, of technically running pro and had a few sponsors at the time.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: But I think the career stuff kind of took over.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: But at the same time I still tried to.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: I still try to race, you know, as best as I can and prepare as best as I can for races and get the best out of myself for sure.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Dude, you just crushed the fall Apple marathon.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I was impressed.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: That's a, that's a Jersey race right, that's right.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Northeast races will sneak up on you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: I had to go out to New York for for work and I was sitting in my hotel I'm like wonder, like what's going on in South mountain preserve, which is a little mountain area.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I was like looking for trails and I saw there's a race and so I got to.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I got to hop in it and got my butt whooped by some, uh, 80% humidity, which we don't have out here, but yeah was literally.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: I was just out there two weeks ago and I went for the FKT on Mount Beacon.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: I was a little upset to not get that but, dude, yeah, the humidity kicks your butt and, like I don't know, east coast trail running is so underrated.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I remember when I first moved out to Boston for Solomon I was going to, I was going to try to go set an FKT in Vermont and I just run like 330 for 50 K or something and I thought I was super fast and and I got my butt whooped by the just the steepness, the rockiness, the wetness of the trail and I got humbled pretty quick.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like oh gosh.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: And and then you start looking into some of these, these runners.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: I mean there's amazing, amazing New England runners that are just total beast that a lot of the world hasn't heard about.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: But they're, they're, they're unbelievable at their craft and uh, it's, it's, it's really cool.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you a question on top of that, like it's funny Cause I know we have like I don't know Dan Kurtz on the East coast.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: We've got like Eric Lapuma.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of like big name runners on the East coast, is it because, like brands are more just like concentrated around the mountain West and that's where they do a lot of their stuff, right?
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Why is that?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I mean definitely like.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I mean I'm a huge fan of new England and the East coast and the running scene.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: I think there's amazing races and amazing runners, amazing community.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I think maybe there's just more of it out West Um, and maybe that's where runners want to go, like you know they want to come to Boulder and Flagstaff in the Bay area.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not sure there's definitely more races out here in the Mountain West, so I think that's probably part of it.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I mean it's cool to see these.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: You know, like the runners you mentioned, you know Eric Lapuma especially like just really, really strong, really quick.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: You know, even like David Sinclair.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: You know he came from, he's a Vermont guy.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: I think I could be wrong on that but yes, he's he's, he's fast as all can be.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Uh, noah broadagam, I think, was an east coast guy.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: He's super fast.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: He's in sweden now.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: But and also, like you know, look at katie scheid and hillary gerardi right that's right, they're new englers and and both really good friends of mine and and I, and I would tell them that they're you know they're sitting right here.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I'd be like you know, part of the reason you're so good in the alps is like look where you came from.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: You know you came from steep, rocky, wet terrain.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: You know hauling.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: You know they were white mountain hut keepers and caretakers and you know hauling big backpacks up and then going for runs up there.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: I mean it's just yeah, it was great training for them and I don't know.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I didn't really answer your question, but no, no, it's fine.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I just was always curious because I've heard like always conflicting things, like like I, so I run for ultimate direction in Las Portiva and I just know having that local connection helped me a lot.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: But I don't know.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I was just always curious Cause you know everybody it depends on like geographic location and stuff like that.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Really quick to pivot, to like Hillary Girardi and Katie Scheidt, like how cool has it been, especially Katie Scheidt and Hillary Girardi is like one of the greatest now Unbelievable Of all time, easily.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: But like to see Katie's like ascent in the sport over the last few years, that's wild.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually first met Katie in 2019.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: I was living in France and went to Doug Mayer's apartment Actually, he had like a run the office apartment and her and your mom were there and got to meet them for the first time and kind of knew who they were Really weren't on my like, didn't know a ton about them, and Katie had just won the 90k and maybe germond did as well in 20.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not, I could be wrong on that, but I'm pretty sure katie won and immediately I, you know, from there I feel like their success, just like you know, just took off.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, pretty quickly.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, and hillary's been over there forever and I mean she's been crushing sky running and keema, I mean there's everything.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's kind of like the queen of sky running, you.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's been amazing to see Dude that.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: Traverna, kima, I can't remember how it's pronounced correctly, but that's a cool race.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I didn't know.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: Every other year they had that race.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I guess my guess was environmentally.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Is that the reason they do it?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: To protect that alpine area?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I just thought it was really amazing.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Good question for Gerardi.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: She would definitely know.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she just named her cat Kima.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, so she's.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: But yeah, she's won, like the last three times and course record.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we'll get Gerardi on here.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: She'll.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: She'll answer your Kima questions, I wish man.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: So back on the Europe conversation.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about a little bit about your time.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Is it Annecy?
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: Is that right, Right, Right.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: I say NC, but NC works too.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Can you talk about like cause I don't know, and I'm going to kind of float this into the Solomon ultra guy conversation and stuff like that.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I just want to hear about your experience there, as an American going over there, what it was like moving for a job and just kind of living that life.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, again it was a dream come true.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: You know I definitely underestimated the cultural challenges of going over there.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: You know I was going over there twice a year anyway for meetings and had really great relationships with almost everyone in that building, partially just me being such a fanboy of Solomon's.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: When I got to meet them, when they'd come over for different events or you know whatever I just kind of like kind of clung to them, you know, like just because I was super interested in what they're doing and really big fans of them.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: So I had really great relationships, was really excited to get over there.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And you know there definitely was some hurdles culturally, especially when you know Solomon has this amazing heritage, you know 1947, born in NC.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: You know Solomon has this amazing heritage, you know 1947, born in NC.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: You know kind of I can't say they created the trail running category but really elevated it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: So they had a lot of pride in what they had done.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And you know, as the sports evolved and products have evolved, you know my job was to kind of bring a new perspective on products and development and stuff and it was just a little bit challenging, you know, I think maybe at times it came off that I was a bit aggressive and pushing my agenda, you know, for for what I thought was the future of the sport and products and stuff, and they were very protective of their, you know.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course it would be a very successful history.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: But, um, you know, there was some like just business culture stuff.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: And also, just like you know, french culture is different than American culture and business culture is different.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And language, like I didn't speak any French, you know, going over there I barely spoke any when I was there, or at least you know good enough to really integrate myself.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: So it was definitely challenging.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: But I think you know one thing that held it all together was, you know, being there in that company, like everyone is so passionate about the sports they serve, whether it's, you know, free skiing, you know trail running, the outdoors, backpacking, whatever, and you know that's just part of my everyday life, you know I I'd run up the local peak Montverier, like every day, you know, and I feel like we, at least when we couldn't agree or we had those headbunning moments, we like we all knew that we just were doing, doing the best we could for the sports we loved, right, and they knew I loved Solomon, they knew I was a, you know my old boss, carl, always say like I know you're a, you're a, you're a Solomon lifer, like you're a Solomon guy, like you're, you're a Solomon guy.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And I think that that held it all together.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: But I mean it was, it was challenging though I mean it's, it's a.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: It's a totally different culture and different way of doing everything.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: I mean day-to-day life is different.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: You know, obviously I were to give advice to someone going over there.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: It'd be like just keep an open mind and and and just be really passionate about what you do and and just be just be open to, you know, challenging conversations and challenging topics.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: But uh, they, they really are an amazing, amazing group of people over there at the design center and yeah, it was a very, very enriching experience.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: That's so cool Now your time.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: There was that around the time when you were developing the ultra glide Cause I feel like, from the research that I did a lot of, it was most of the articles written with the ultra glide were about with you in it as well, which was really cool.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: Um, can you talk a little bit about like how that came to be?
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: So day one uh, march of 2019, I sat in like a development meeting where we were outlining the architecture of the trail running product range for the next two to five years or so, and there was a project they had codenamed Product Ultra Flagship it was just an internal name on it and the idea was it was supposed to be an ultra distance shoe, ultra distance inspired shoe, but at a certain price point for a wider audience.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: And a lot of that was to have, you know, to kind of go with the trend of softer shoes, more max cushion, making sure that we're still doing it the Solomon way, and then also thinking about the US market as a huge, huge opportunity, because Solomon shoes were always traditionally very narrow and very, very firm.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So, like day one, you know, I got handed this, like this project, and you just basically dove right into it and this is this was 2019.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, the shoe came to life in fall of 21.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, but I mean, you're always working on a lot of different seasons at that time, but that was like day one.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: First mission is like nail this, get this right.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't until probably a year after that that we finally had the right recipe for the shoe.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: So it was.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: It was actually right before all the lockdown, so it's probably December 2019.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: So not quite about eight or nine months that we'd finally had the recipe to like put this shoe into development.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: And we we I wouldn't say rushed it, but we definitely prioritized it in like the factory side, sourcing side, design side, everything to get it out as soon as possible, because it's actually supposed to come out in spring of 2021.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: And then we pushed it out to fall the fall season of 2021.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: But that was, yeah, that was a very, very singular focus of mine for a good solid like a year, year and a half.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, it felt like it was a very I mean when it came out, cause it was very unique and very different from anything Solomon had produced before and it seemed like I don't know.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: To me it seemed like a very popular shoe.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, like at the time I remember like Kieran, nay, and quite a few people were in you know, we're in that shoe and had amazing things to say about it, so pretty cool, yeah, yeah, I think, I think.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I think it ended up being one of Solomon's top selling shoes.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: That wasn't a speed cross, um, cause they sell so many speed cross a year, uh, but I think the coolest thing that came with that shoe was it's actually the same foam that we used in the S lab pulsar with Killian Okay, uh, just a different durometer, different hardness, basically.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: And what I'm most proud of that shoe other than like, I think it was a really great tool for people to enjoy themselves on the trail right and and achieve their goals.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of like philosophical ways could go down it, but I think it's.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: It was really cool because it it brought that foam into the whole range of Solomon now and it allowed them to like it's in the Genesis, it's in the road running product, it's in, it's in everything, and that's, I think, what I'm most proud of was like standing behind, like knowing that this was, this was the right way to go for the sport and the consumer, and then it working and then it really helping elevate a lot of other products at Solomon, both ones I worked on when I was there and ones they still develop now.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now, a lot of that role too.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: It seemed like it was very it's always forward-facing.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: You're always thinking what a year or two, sometimes more, into the future Is it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Is there a large crossover now into your current role, where you're very much so thinking about maybe less on the development side, but we're thinking about what's happening 2020, like even, like you said, 2026?
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: I think everyone who works works in the industry is always, yeah, got a couple of years ahead, definitely more in, like you know the commercial roles, sales roles and product roles.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: You're you're definitely looking a bit further ahead.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: So right now, you know, looking at budgets for 25, and then also, you know, looking at 26,.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: You know what, what do we want to be by 26, 27, actually even beyond right, like we have five to 10 years often, you know, as a North star, so, yeah, we're always, always looking ahead and bouncing back and forth through seasons.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: So that's that's part of the part of the slip up is, yeah, I sometimes even forget it's 2024, but yeah, dude, I get it, I get it, I'm like I.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: so my day job I work in corporate finance, so it's on an accounting calendar, so I'm literally always thinking like a month ahead and I'll get confused.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so for your.
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: So your in your current role, is there less?
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you have any involvement in like product development or any say in that at all now or no?
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: A little bit Bertie, who's our head of product over in Mallorca.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: Her and I have a great relationship and we're always kind of bouncing ideas off of each other.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: She comes from Adidas, from a similar role I had at Salomon, and she's yeah, she's always, you know, bouncing ideas off of you know off of me and and just kind of more around, like just the general product line management of things.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Of course, it also has implications too to the commercial side, because we want to make sure that we're we're we're lining product up right in the right launches, the right seasons and, you know, keeping in mind, like you know, our retailer partners as well.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: So I'm not like as involved, you know, as I was where I'm like signing off on product or anything, but, yeah, definitely in the conversation and testing shoes too and when we launched molds my size and, you know, still testing out souls and stuff when it comes up, yeah, yeah, the only reason I ask is because, like you're, you're so passionate and knowledgeable about shoes.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like I could talk to you about shoes all day.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Um, really quick.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: So normal's coming out with a shoe.
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Is it called the key boy, key boy, something like that?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, Damn, I got to get better at these.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: Um, can you talk a little bit about the shoe?
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I just find it so unique that there's these three uh inserts that you use almost like a midsole.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Can you?
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Can you chat?
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: about that a little bit.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really interesting concept.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: So, basically, the shoe that you, you get uh, you get like a shell of a shoe basically that's a good way to describe it where the upper is sewn directly into sidewalls that connect to an outsole, right.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: So it's a matrix upper Vibram outsole and then you can put in the midsole that you want.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: So it's definitely a pillar of our innovation as a brand going forward.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: It's not going to be our best-selling shoe, but it's definitely an innovative concept.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: And the idea here is that you can repair the shoe and replace the midsoles whenever you want, however you want.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: So you know, when the outsole wears off, you can resole it.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: If the upper gets a little banged up, you can stitch it, because it's matrix.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: You can also customize the run experience you want.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: So if you want a bouncy run, you want a soft run, a firm run, you can customize it.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: But also, when those were out, you can just you'll be, you'll be able to buy new ones and just replace it.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: So really, in theory, it could be like one of the last shoes you ever buy.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You just keep repairing it and we're just basically allowing you to customize your, your running experience, but also keeping shoes out of, out of landfills and oceans and things like that.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, I've tested, uh, you know, proto since last summer and yeah, I find myself, you know, easy days, I put in the soft midsole.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know days where I want to run a little bit faster, I put in the bouncier one, and you know, maybe more technical day, I put on a firmer one, just to have a little bit more stability.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: So that's a general, general concept of it.
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: Uh, we're going to bring it to market by the end of this year, maybe end of November, december.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, we'll see, we'll see what happens.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Uh, but it's, it's, it was an idea of Killian's for a long time, I know, uh, you know, we talked about it at Solomon even.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: Uh, it's just really hard to do.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: It's really really hard to construct a shoe that way and keep it stable and keep it fitting Right, and so I think we have a really good recipe.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, we'll see what we'll see what we'll see what the people say.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: That's so interesting.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I mean I thought it was really unique too and very cool that it was announced.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, it had to have been a year before it actually comes to market.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: And what I thought was really interesting too was that and you could speak obviously more to this is like did you guys, you select people like applied right To be able to test these?
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: How did that work?
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: How was that?
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: And like that, it's's very unique because I've never seen that done from a brand before.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Do you only have we don't have every single size available in that phase of development and we just we asked for feedback.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: You know what do you like, what do you not like about it.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: You know what insole do you use more than the others?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Do you not use one?
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Why is it stable, all these things.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: So it was a really cool way to for us to validate and sign off on the product to make sure that it was at least going in the right direction, right Cause, or, okay, maybe we don't need that firm one, or I don't use the soft one, or it's not, the soft one's not as stable as it could be.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, we need to redesign maybe the sidewalls or the way the midsole sits in there.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: So it was just a way for us to, yeah, validate what we were going to.
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: You know, launch essentially.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Interesting, yeah, for a big company like Salomon versus a smaller company like Normal?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Is it harder or easier to bring a shoe to market at, like a super large company versus a smaller one, or is it like?
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: inverse.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: How does that work?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: You know a lot of it comes down to.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: You know, when you're sourcing and you're building a product, obviously the more units you have, the better.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: You get more cost savings right on materials and you can bring costs down but still remain profitable.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: When you have smaller volumes it's a lot harder to do so.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: You usually have to be on the upper end of pricing.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not 100% sure.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I can't speak on how Norda does it, but I'm guessing that's part of why Norda is so expensive.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because they're not doing Solomon-like or Hoka-like volumes.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: You know, it's probably easier as a big brand but at the same time, like you're, you know these big brands are like, they're like freight trains right, they're just, they have a lot of momentum and they're just going and they can't be very flexible.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: But for us, like if we we want to change directions on a product, like when we came out the Tomewear one, it was a good shoe, great shoe.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: It still is, but we knew we could make a really quick, better update, we could introduce super critical foam into it.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Um, we can make the decision like really, really quick and and within a few months we could be reactive and do that, whereas a bigger brand probably can't do that, just because they're so locked into high volumes, everything is so baked and it's just like that.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: They have a ton of momentum and they can't.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Really, we're like a light rail, you know.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: We can bounce back and forth, so there's there's pluses and minuses to it.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, seeing it from both sides, I think it's all.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: It's all a challenge.
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know, sometimes bigger brands have more resources or more of a team and it's, you know, less pressure on everyone.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: You know we're a pretty small team.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I think there's only a couple of, there's only a couple of designers.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: There's one head of product, a couple of type PLM type roles, developers, uh, over in, uh, in my work, uh which they're all amazingly talented, but it's still a really really small.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: you know it's like one 10th of what Solomon would be in trail running.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: So, uh, yeah, I don't know.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I think that there's it's probably a little bit of both, yeah.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, one of the reasons I asked you is cause, like it's funny, you brought up Norda, like I before hard rock, and I happen to be doing a photo shoot with them like a couple of days before.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I was like yo, let me see those.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: And got to play with them a little bit.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I was like yo, this is, this is legit.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: But he had just got them from China, like they came from the factory within a couple of days.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: So I just found it interesting how you can order those up and just have it like super quick versus like a larger company where I guess you have to.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: It's more volume, more economics.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like you're just different for sure, yeah, yeah, and I mean, and I mean Nord is probably also expensive because they make a really great product Like I mean they're, I mean everything, top to bottom in that shoe is action-packed with all the best, best in class, everything.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know everyone.
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: Every company is a little different, yeah.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was super cool.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: What a job, dude.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: What a job, yeah.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: On the apparel side, one of the things I found really interesting too maybe you could speak a little bit to this is dude, the color schemes are really well like.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: Whoever is like picking the colors and stuff like that really well done, Like, and the stuff is just like awesome.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, shout out to Regis.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: Regis is our creative director.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: He's in Paris, really.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good question about color.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: So everything in our color palette at normal, so you see, like the race, the race team green, like Ellosian's wearing, killian's wearing actually all the athletes are wearing it's actually a tree that's just pixelated.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: So a lot of times companies go to a company called Pantone and they get the colors for the season which is why you often see very similar colors between all brands is because there is like a general color bank that's available for for sourcing materials.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: But, um, everything we do is is very much inspired by nature.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: So the like the tome or two that just came on orange is like basically a picture of the sun that we just pixelate and and make the.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not a creative guy really, but like we extrapolate the colors and make it a representation of that.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: It's not a Pantone that we go and we get from a factory or something like that.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of where the color story also comes from.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Is is still that inspiration from nature.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: That is so cool, yeah, and I like that.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: That's just I don't know.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: There's more of a story to it.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: There's more, there's a reason and a why.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: I kind of like that better for sure.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: All right, so I'm going to pivot a little bit from normal, cause I I one of the things I found in my research is that you are an ambassador for run the Alps and there's some some cool backstory there.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: So maybe talk a little bit about like what run the Alps is and just kind of like how I'm going to thread that into kind of that alt Mont Blanc route that you did a while back.
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: So run the Alps amazing company, founded by Doug Mayer, the American guy, uh, from New Hampshire, from the white mountains, and yeah, basically run the ops is a trail running tourism company.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: I guess you could say they do guided trips in the Alps, both with with guides that they hire in the region, also like you could do something self-guided.
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: So if you didn't want to, you know, have a guide with you every day.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: You buddies want to do a TMB like you can work with run the Alps and they'll.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: They'll schedule all of your, your luggage drops and all your huts and hotels and and basically kind of work with you on the whole experience and they have tons of trips all through the Alps and the Dolomites.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: And yeah, really, really cool company it's been.
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: It's been super fun to see, see it grow.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I first, I first reached out to Doug when I was living in Boston.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Someone who knew him from his NPR days was like you know, if you're into, you know you're so fanatical about running the Alps, you should talk to this guy, doug.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: And I just, like, wrote him an email.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, doug, I want to run the Alps, like, tell me how to do this, or like, and we have been friends ever since and uh, yeah, it's just really cool company Like just really providing an amazing Alps trail mission control.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: She's, I guess, tour coordinator, logistics coordinator, a little bit of everything.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: Vice president, you know of Run the Alps, but that's so cool.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: So I'm very much in that world because we both work from home, so I'm very much connected to Run the Alps and last year got to go on a trip and spend a lot of time with those guys and girls when I went over in Chamonix.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, really amazing company.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: They they have amazing tours.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: I saw you had Jordan Milbrath on your podcast.
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: I actually met Chase and Jordan.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: They were interns from the Alps in 2019.
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that and then that's actually how I know them really really well.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: But, yeah, super cool company and yeah, if you ever want to go on a really cool either guided or self-guided trips in the Alps, it's.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: I think they're the best company there is.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: So I'll put it on my list man.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um, no, one of the reasons too I brought it up was because they did this like beautiful write-up about this route.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: That you had done was was like this mont blanc alt route.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that, like that experience and like the route and how that came to be?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Um, so in trail running I've always been super inspired by, like the mont Massif, like whatever it was.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: The first time I saw it in a Solomon TV episode I just I was just like captivated by it.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't know what it was, um, I knew nothing about the region at the time.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: I just like I just couldn't believe people ran there.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: And then you know you get more and more into the sport and you start following.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: You know it's, it's, it is.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: I don't recommend people just to run up it without experience, cause it is, it still is an active glacier, it's.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: There's rockfall, there's crevasses, it's.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: So don't just go run up it.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Like, do your homework on it before you do that.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it just always was like this, like I don't know beacon of hope or something.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: To me it was this huge inspirational like mountain, you know, and then living over there, you know, getting to go up it and around it and on it and all different you know ways.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: I just I think one day looked at it might've been at Girardi's house actually the big Topo relief map up and I just kind of was staring at it a while and started like to think like, well, it'd be really cool to to go up and over it and around it and maybe we could do like an infinity loop on it.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Cause I know, like I was, I was really inspired by Caitlin up in the Pacific Northwest and I was like, well, maybe I could do something like that.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: And then I just kind of they created this route.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: I was like you know what I'm going to start on the Italian side, Also inspired by Killian who climbed it from the Italian and French side, and one day that's also where some of it came from.
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: But I don't know, it's like I just want to do something different and, you know, put my heart and soul into a route, an idea that was really really inspirational to me.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: And there's also a component of it too and a story that I wanted to tell at the time about.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Like you know, there's only certain times a year you can kind of go the way that I did because of glaciers melting and rockfall and things like that.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: So that was also kind of part of it was like, well, we have really good conditions in June, rockfall and things like that.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: So that was also kind of part of it was like, well, we have really good conditions in June and the Italian side, the Pope route, is often really serract and really crevassed and sometimes even close the hut by mid June.
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: So you really can't go that way.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: And we had really good weather and, uh, you know, talk to some, some people who are going to join me on the route and they felt really good about it and, like, this is our window to go.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, we.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: So we, yeah, we just left um Cormier and went up to, uh, the summit of Mont Blanc and then down the normal route into France and to Les Uges and then ran through the Valley with some, with some friends, um, actually, uh, intern of mine, alexi at the time at Solomon, also Meg McKenzie.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: Uh, hillary joined on bike, uh, briefly, at one point I think she was she was tapering for the 90 K among Blanc, like the next week.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: And then, uh, I was joined on the technical parts by Dave Searle, who's an amazing free skier and high mountain guide in the Chamonix Valley, and then went up and over the Massif again, over the um plateau, treant and by um the tour glacier and then basically dropped down the TMB and ran the UTmb course more or less back over grand col foray back towards cormier, oh wow.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was just something that I I don't know just really inspired me and you know I I kind of had gotten into more of the fast and light mountaineering, uh, and it was just kind of a cool way to do a little bit of everything you know, like you know real kind of technical stuff on ridges and crossing some glaciers and and trail running too.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: It's kind of just a fun, fun way to I don't know celebrate living in France and and and being inspired by this this, this beautiful mountain.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: So Dude, what an amazing route and it's so cool that you got to incorporate.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: It's not just running, it's not just mountain running, there's so much to it.
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: Do you still like practice any any like mountaineering?
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Living in Leadville, like not that they're.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Most of our mountains are big hills, but like, do you still do anything crazy or out here or no?
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: No, I mean, uh, since moving back to the U S, I mean I've gone on Mount hood and the grand Teton, um, and when I've gone back to France, like this summer, I got to play on the massive a bit, uh, going up some high peaks and some high peaks in Italy, but not not nearly as much as I mean when you're living in NC and you can, you know, get a call from a friend on a weekend like let's go up Mont Blanc, or let's go up Aguita tour, let's go up grand Paradiso, it's, it's really easy to throw the gear in the car and get up there and do it, um, a little bit harder, just to get, even get out to the Cascades no-transcript.
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I think just mountain sports in general, it's a.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: It just seems a bit more extreme and more intense, definitely more humbling.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: I remember one day walking through the Chamonix Valley I've told this story a bunch of times to people but I did this thing that I called the Chamonix half pipe, which is it's not overly creative.
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: But you start in town and you've run up to this high point where these two glaciers meet, called La Junction, which actually was one of the original routes up Mont Blanc.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: You run up it's one side of the Valley and you run down and then you go up to the other side, to this, this peak called Brevant.
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: Uh, and did you basically create like a half pipe, so to speak?
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: That's pretty cool actually, and it's like I don't know it's, it's like 11,000 feet of vert, I think, or 12,000.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember the meters to feet conversions.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I thought I was like super cool and like inspiring and creative, like I just did the Chamonix half pipe and Doug actually I've done it a few times that Doug joined me a few times for it and, uh, I was like blown out.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: You know I was tired, you know it's a, it's a pretty big day and you know, six or seven hour day, and I was walking down the main street and Chamonix, and Dave Searle, the guy I mentioned, a guide, I see him walking towards me.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: He looks like haggard, destroyed, like he's just like trying to get through a sandwich.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: And I was like, dave, what's going on?
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: And he's just like, oh, I just, I just flew off mont blanc, he just paraglided off mont blanc, my god.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: And he's like I gotta go out to the field because my climbing partner I think you know she couldn't get the wind the right way.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: I think she's gonna be, she's gonna land outside the valley, so I have to get down there.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: And I was like, well, how'd you get like?
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: And he's got this small little kid on, you know, like just a little ice ax on his paragliding pack.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: And and I was like, oh yeah, this is Chamonix now.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: Like, no, you're actually really cool, like I thought I was cool.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And no, no, dave, you're actually like, really, really cool.
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy, it's incredible, yeah, and like anytime you think you find and I find that sometimes in time I think I do something insane I I meet someone that like one ups me by like a million, for sure, just prepare to get one up when you go to chamonix for sure.
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh man yeah, no, it's definitely, definitely on the list.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of those things where, like, we just got married in july and it's like we wanted to do uh, thank you.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: we want to do like europe for a honeymoon cool.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, can I raise my lot to raise really cool with this?
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I'm like maybe I'll just do all VKs.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm not like, totally smashed, that's perfect, that's good, yeah, yeah.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: So, dude, we're almost at like an hour, so I'm going to try to start getting into some some ending questions.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: Now I'm just curious to know, like, who inspires you?
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: You know it's, that's a really really good question.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Um, this may sound really silly, but I think it's.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: It's something that's really it's.
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: It's been with me since I was a little kid.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: Um, michael Jordan, honestly, uh, you know I was, I was born in 87, you know I was primed, born in America in 87, like, liked sports as a kid, like Michael Jordan was, you know he was, he was everything to me, someone I looked up to for for a lot of.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I think he's the greatest ever and we can get into that debate on another podcast but I think, like, his will and his fight and his ability to just overcome challenges was something that I always admired.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: I watched the VHS tapes of him, like on sick days and the way you talk about, I mean, competition I'm not overly competitive, but I think, uh, just the way he would push himself to get the best out of himself.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: I think that's where that comes from.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: And I think too, like you know, having air Jordans as a kid.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: You know, that's where I fell in love with shoes.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I fell in love with this idea that, like you know, shoes can make you fly.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: You know, and that that concept that you know I think it's.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: It sounds it sounds silly, but like, I really do think that, like shoes, are these tools and or keys to doors that open you to worlds you don't even know exist, and when you can find them, they can change your life and stuff.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: And then all that came from just the combination of Michael Jordan, the person, the athlete, um, the, the product that he created, you know, the commercials, everything, uh, you know, yeah, it's just something about him then and I always kind of go back to like that, that, that killer instinct and the motivation that he has just to to be the best.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't feel the same way about being the best, but to get the best out of myself, yeah, and I've definitely taken a lot of you know what Nike didn't around the year Jordan into into products.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: And you know I remember being in a meeting at Solomon.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: You know I remember being in a meeting at Solomon.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I was like I want every single trail runner to feel like they can put on a pair of Solomons and when they put them on, they enter this world where they can almost see themselves running, like we can see Killian running on these ridges, like I.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Like, that's what I think.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Products like that's what I want trail running to feel like you know, and but yeah, I think yeah, everything about Michael Jordan was is is still really really inspiring to me today.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: Wow, dude, that was a great answer.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be a little different.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, man, so you know, there's so much I can like ask about that, but really quick, like so definitely jordan over lebron, then 100.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I feel the same way, dude, he was the ultimate competitor, he's killer, like.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love sports, I draw a lot of um.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I guess you could say parallels between other sports to this, to what we do in trail running, um, but there will never be anybody like Michael Jordan again.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: There's just no comparison, yeah, and I think it's funny.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: In our sport too, you know, like there's definitely competitors and killers, right.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: Like I mean, yeah, I don't, I don't want to name any names, but there's, there's definitely runners that are, that are cutthroat, and but they're amazing people, right like in our sport also yields like really, really amazing people like.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: There's not a lot of people who say like oh, they're, they're not a good person or they're they're a bad person or they're they're rude or mean or like they're malicious in any way, but I know for sure like they're out there to win, like they're like I mean, you can look at the sprints from the golden trail series.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: Like elezine is one of the most wonderful human beings in the world, but that dude's a killer.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Like I don't want to get in a sprint race with him.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Like no way, you know.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that I don't know.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there's a story there to to to tell a bigger story about that mindset, because it's.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: They are such wonderful people, right.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know if Michael Jordan is like the nicest guy in the world but I've heard conflicting things.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just said he inspires me.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but like I could tell you for sure, like you know, El-Hussein is an amazing person, 100%.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: So I don't know.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: It's interesting for sure no.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: And to El-Hussein, I know, with that sprint finish with, like Phil Amon, I've raced Phil Amon this year.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: Phil Amon, they're just amazing.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I don Um but and and obviously LZ is like, probably at this point other than KJ, like one of the best, if not the best in the world.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: It's kind of wild, um, but yeah to to your point on Jordan.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, straight up killers.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: And I love that our sports got like evolved to that point too where, like, we can have these conversations like like especially more so, I'd say, on the sub ultra side, but even now, like, like you can't tell me like Katie Shive's not a killer, like you know, like it's crazy, uh, even in the long stuff now, like it's wild to see like where we've evolved.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: I remember leave, uh, courtney was living, uh, you, ray, uh, this past year at hard rock and you know she's got that, you know she's.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: She's a great competitor, obviously an amazing athlete, also an amazing person.
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: And Finn was like, oh, courtney's going into clinic mode and I was like, oh gosh, I got to pick her up at Adamus on the other side and then pick her up and I was like I feel bad for anyone who's close by because we're just going to get them, we're going to catch up.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: Like she's unbelievable.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: It's so.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I mean you know her better than I do.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: I don't happen.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: I'm surprised it hasn't happened already.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: Um oh man.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: All right, so I feel like I'm going to have three podcasts with you.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Um, so, now that I know about your Jordan background and I know you like Jordan what's your what's your walkout song?
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: You're getting ready for a race.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: You're getting pumped up Like what's the song that you're listening to?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: oh man, I think it really.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: You know it's a good question.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: It changes all the time, uh, depending on the race, depending how I'm feeling, uh like I think in the car, uh, going to to miwok back in may, because I remember I had like a long drive to the start, it was everything.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: It was like, it was like roddy rich, it was lupe fiasco and I, you know, definitely end it with like some bruce springsteen, because I'm a jersey guy, I think I like atlantic city.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: This live version will just like get me, you know, super amped up, but it's all a little bit different, but the one consistent is definitely some some springsteen in there.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: For sure there's definitely uh, gotta, gotta get, gotta get started with some bruce.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: For sure there's definitely a gotta gotta get, gotta get started with some Bruce, for sure.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: What's your Bruce song man?
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Like what's your, what's your favorite.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: I'll be huge Bruce fan by the way.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, I yeah yeah, I mean like okay, it's a constant debate between me and my wife Cause, like she's a Bon Jovi fan, I'm like yo, sorry, it's Bruce, all the way.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: So like I'm going to go see my also big Jersey Jersey guy, bruce guy.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: I've seen Bruce like 13 times with them and if we're feeling sentimental, it's probably like growing up.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: If it's we're just feeling like inspired, empowered, it's probably like the rising or promised land or land of hope and dreams, but I think Atlantic city.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: But there's a special live version they did which is just like it's just a force.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes me, when he, when he plays it, I just I lose my mind.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Wow, you're probably the only person I've ever had on the podcast that's brought up Bruce Springsteen.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: So pretty, pretty dope, all right.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: Last question, actually last serious question.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: So, like, dude, you've had a very cool career and you're very young still, like when it's all said and done, like, what is it that you want to like, look back and be proud of?
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: Is there anything you feel like you haven't achieved yet, and what is it whether you want to be proud of when you look back?
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, like just objectively right, I mean, I could become a VP or president of a of one of these companies, or, you know, normal one day, or you know whatever it is Like.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, running a company at the highest level objectively could be like that's the ultimate goal for me.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: I I've said this, uh, I've said this, uh, I think mostly only in close friends that I just want to give back to the sport more than it's given me and whatever that is, you know, and I think that's that could be product, that could be marketing, that could just be, um, empowering, you know, new groups of people to get into trail running.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: It'd be better represented.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't really have a great answer.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: I think we could probably expand, uh on that, but, uh, I just want to give back more than it's given me.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: The trail running has has given me the world.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: You know I'm I'm beyond grateful for everything that it's.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: I'd never expect this to happen.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Life could have gone a million different ways and it's been.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: It's been a huge, huge blessing for me to have have trail running in my life and be a part of my life from a personal level and a career level.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: So I just just want to give, give back more than I take, and, yeah, I think that's what I want to be remembered as someone who did yeah, I love that.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: One more serious one, and the only reason I ask this is because one of my best friends wants to have a job just like yours one day.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: He's like in the market.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: He just he was in the marketing space, but in a completely different space, if you will, and but wants to break into the outdoors.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for someone like that, that like wants to break into the outdoors or into the marketing industry, specifically for what you do?
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's a really hard industry to get into.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: Like once you're in, you're kind of in and because your network really explodes, and I think there's there's two different ways to get into it.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: You can get into it.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: There's two different ways and there's one constant, two different ways.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: You can be very formally trained right.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: You can go get an MBA, you can have degrees in these things.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: You can, uh, you know, be designer and engineer if you want to get a product um.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Or you can go like the school of hard knocks route right, where you can, you know, work on a retail floor, you know, be a guide, be, you know, just kind of take a more like entry level way in, where you just were really really passionate about it and you worked in shops and then ultimately, you apply for these jobs and got in Um and that's basically what I did, right, I studied psychology, I mean, I went on to get an MBA throughout my career just to to kind of sharpen some more, um, hard skills.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: But I think the one thing that is completely constant is like you have to be passionate about it and you have to love it and you have to have a way to take that passion and translate it into into marketing, into product, into sales, cause there's definitely ways that you can.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: You can do that.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: So I think, just be really passionate about it, look for opportunities.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: There's there's really no.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: If you want to get into this industry, there's no bad opportunity.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: If it's out there, you know, maybe it's a.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: It could be a bit lower, a bit higher than what you're at if you're coming into it from outside the industry.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: But if there's a good opportunity there that gets you in the door, just take it and be passionate, work really hard and, yeah, just translate that passion into everything you do and I think you'll be set up for success.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I love that Dude.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: You have so much stoke for the sport, it's very obvious just talking to you you do love it.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely not hiding that.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that you do love it.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, it's definitely not hiding that, I appreciate that.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, um last question.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Um, what's your take on Bigfoot, do you believe?
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I just saw some more photos allegedly come out, uh, which I had not thought about Bigfoot in a long time.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: Uh, it made me think about it, though I don't think so.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, no.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: I don't believe, I don't believe.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: No, you, you, you thought about it for a second, but I feel like he or her, they would be discovered by now.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: I think you're right, man.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: I think you're right.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately, as much as I want to want it to be real, it's.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: It's probably not really Well, dude conversation.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man, thank you.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: What'd you guys think?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: I told you this would be a special episode.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: I just want to personally thank Mike so much for coming on the podcast and and giving me this really sweet normal hat that I'm wearing right now as I record this big shout out to normal, some really cool apparel and branding and just some cool shoes and stuff that they make.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: So thanks to Mike for bringing that to life and just being a great ambassador for our sport.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Guys, before this is all said and done, hop on Instagram, type in Mikeambrose1.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: Give him a follow, send him a DM, Slide into Mike's DMs, let him know what you thought about the episode and just send him some positive words, send him some positive messages.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: I'm sure he'd love to hear from you guys.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: I know he's like I said, he's the country manager of Normal.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: He's trying to help build this brand in the United States.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: So buy some shoes too.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: That'd be dope Cool.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: So, guys, now this episode's over.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: If you could do me a solid favor, if you wouldn't mind hopping onto Spotify or Apple giving us a five-star rating and review, that would be amazing.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: But even more amazing, I think would be really cool, is this fun little call to action I would challenge you guys to do.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: If you're still listening to this after an hour 20, hour 30, I would challenge anybody if you did enjoy this podcast, whether it be this one or any of the episodes hop on and share your favorite episode and write why on social media.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: I think that would be really cool, I think it'd be really exciting and it's a great opportunity to get this podcast out to the world.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: That is my goal is to cover sub ultra.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I want to get this out to as many listeners as possible so we can grow this thing and help bring the sport to the masses.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: That'd be kind of dope.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: So, guys, I would challenge you to share that on social media and why you enjoyed the episodes, whatever.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate that.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: Much love to all of you, guys, have a great rest of your week and I'll be with you next week.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Take care, thank you you.