Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 24: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 2 - To Have or Not Have

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24: Full Therapeutic Disclosures Part 2 - To Have or Not Have · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey everybody. So we are going to continue in
0:02
on the journey with the Part 2 of the therapeutic disclosures.
0:06
I wanted to share with you a couple things before we dive
0:09
into it. We're going to be talking today
0:11
about the reasons for a Full disclosure, and we're also going
0:15
to be touching on the reasons not to disclose why we wouldn't
0:20
hold a Full disclosure, and also the reasons why men, or at least
0:27
the person that did the betraying, have to avoid
0:30
disclosure. And I'm curious to see what
0:33
resonates for you. And then the last piece, the
0:35
importance of why you need a professional guidance in the
0:40
disclosure process. So looking forward to having the
0:44
conversation. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
0:49
podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
0:51
I'm thrilled to have you join me in the space today.
0:53
What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
0:56
triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
0:59
Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
1:02
moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
1:04
commitment to self that reveals a rich connection and meaning
1:08
that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
1:10
time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
1:13
What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
1:16
You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
1:19
incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
1:22
Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
1:24
immeasurable. So welcome to Beyond the Facade.
1:27
Let's get started. Hello, everyone.
1:31
Welcome back. Thanks for joining us.
1:32
In Part 2, we're going to be like in Part 422, just kidding.
1:39
When we do these little hash outs before we hit record,
1:42
there's so many things that we want you all to know, but we're
1:44
going to continue our conversation around full
1:46
therapeutic disclosures. Again, the amazing Luke Gordon
1:50
joining us as well in these conversations to add so much
1:53
more to the content of what we all want you to walk away with.
1:57
And today we're going to touch even more so on the reasons why
2:01
you would have a disclosure and why not, along with some excuses
2:05
that we hear as to why not hopefully to debunk some of
2:09
those. But let's just get right down to
2:11
it with this episode, y'all Like why?
2:15
Let's just go through some of these reasons as to why we as
2:18
professionals in this field doing what we do, knowing what
2:22
we know, seeing what we see, why do we want our clients to
2:27
consider a full therapeutic disclosure?
2:30
And the first one, we actually have it on our website.
2:32
I was reading through it before we went on here, and I wrote it
2:35
in our bullet point as #1 because it just really hit me.
2:39
It's your basic human right and relational right to know the
2:42
truth and know your reality. I just wanted to start off with
2:44
a bang because I think that basic human right is a powerful
2:48
statement. A lot of people don't realize
2:50
that that's a basic right, that they have been denied that in so
2:54
many relationships in their life, like even in their family
2:59
relationships and childhood relationships, but especially in
3:04
your primary relationship. It is a relational right and a
3:09
basic human right to have truth. Yeah, truth about you.
3:13
Truth about your body. It is really, really important
3:17
truth about your reality. I think when we talked so much
3:20
in the past about that reality collapse, reality fragmentation,
3:23
like what that has done to you, what that does to your higher
3:27
body, entire system, it's very impactful.
3:30
And yeah, I don't think I know. I didn't write realize until I
3:34
started doing my own work how serious this was and how much of
3:38
A. You.
3:39
May basic human right this is so just wanted to put that one out
3:43
there. This is your right.
3:44
What's what's interesting in this is the compartmentalized
3:48
brain and how destructive it can be.
3:51
And the often it comes from this place of like somebody going,
3:55
yeah, that person has truth, they have it and determining for
4:01
the other person that they have reality.
4:04
It's such an interesting thing because it's so dangerous to to
4:07
think that I know that that person has all the pieces that I
4:11
get to determine that for them. And I think about the
4:13
entitlement associated with that.
4:16
But it's such, it's so stems from family of origin, so stems
4:20
from that experience. Yeah, good point.
4:24
The next one is just being able to have informed consent on how
4:29
you show up in a relationship when you don't have as a
4:32
betrayed partner, when you don't have all the information about
4:35
person, about your body, about the reality of your
4:39
relationship, your sexual relationship, your sexuality,
4:41
the impact that all of their behaviors have had on your on
4:46
your body sexually especially. I think informed consent is
4:50
another really big kind of mic drop for me when we talk about
4:54
the reasons why this is a really important piece to healing and
4:59
getting repaired is that can. I ask a question on Amy, like do
5:03
you mind describing specifically for the the person that acted
5:07
out or betrayed what informed consent is like if they're just
5:11
listening just this episode, like what is informed consent?
5:14
Yeah, and Alana, please add to this because I love your brain
5:17
on this too. But the first thing that just
5:19
comes to my mind is what I was saying, like when?
5:22
And I'm going to go ahead and use my own personal experience
5:24
here. When I was in my relationship
5:27
with a person that I thought was holding on to the same values,
5:31
fidelity, and not acting out sexually with another person,
5:35
then the way that my body responded, the way that I
5:38
mentally, physically, emotionally responded,
5:40
especially not sexual interaction, was based on this
5:45
idea, this false information, if you will, of how he was also
5:49
showing up to that sexual experience.
5:51
And so without that informed consent, I was, that's where
5:55
abuse comes in, right? Where I did not have information
6:00
that I needed to be able to fully give something that was
6:04
mine solely as a human, to give to my partner, my sexuality, my
6:09
body. I didn't have key information
6:12
that I needed to be able to be fully informed, to do that
6:16
authentically, to do that knowingly.
6:20
I remember the first time that I learned this concept back when I
6:25
was a partner going through it. And it blew my mind because it
6:30
occurred to me how one thing that he took away in his acting
6:36
out was the ability for me to make choices for myself with the
6:40
knowledge. And so it's just another way of
6:43
saying informed consent. But I went, Oh my gosh, like if
6:47
I knew this, I would have protected myself in sexual
6:51
interactions. If I knew this, I would not have
6:54
been a stay at home solely. I would have had other ways to
6:59
protect myself financially. If I knew this, I wouldn't have
7:03
been chasing him and begging him and pleading to just connect
7:07
with me, and I wouldn't have been taking all these things on.
7:10
I lost the ability for all of those years to really choose for
7:14
myself with full knowledge, because if I had full knowledge,
7:17
I would have been making very different choices.
7:20
So when somebody else took away that ability to choose or took
7:23
away that agency, I remember I was mad that like sadness was
7:31
deep, grief was all legit, but this peace in particular really
7:35
went into an anger peace for me because one of my values that is
7:40
at the core is to have freedom and freedom to choose for
7:43
myself. And so somebody else taking away
7:46
that freedom and making those choices for me about what I get
7:50
to know and not get to know in my primary relationship was
7:54
very, very destructive. So being able to restore that
7:58
and allow for that awareness and consent so the partner gets to
8:04
choose for themselves is such. I want to say it's a gift but I
8:09
don't like. That goes back to basic human
8:11
right. Yeah, because it's a basic
8:12
right? Freedom is your basic right and
8:15
that freedom was taken away which is why the word abuse is
8:18
very fitting with this. This type of behavior takes away
8:22
choice. So giving information so that
8:25
one can make a full conscious choice is another basic human
8:29
right. But it's it's relational, so.
8:32
Well, and I think this goes really well into the next one of
8:35
just simply truth and transparency.
8:38
The foundation of any healthy relationship is built off of
8:44
trust and truth and transparency.
8:48
And any 12 step group that you go to, step one is honesty with
8:53
self and honesty with others because that is so foundational.
8:58
And so full disclosures, we go back to that very foundation and
9:04
put those pieces back in place. Yeah.
9:06
Absolutely. Anything more around truth and
9:09
transparency, you use that word Foundation it is.
9:12
And like we said in last episode with that healing pyramid, it is
9:15
the foundation. And it's hard to, it's
9:18
impossible to feel true safety, trust, vulnerability and
9:22
intimacy without it. I'm just wondering, Luke, is
9:25
anything coming to your mind? Just that it's learning how to
9:28
tell the truth is a process. Learning how to be transparent
9:33
is a process. It's like, OK all the way, I'll
9:36
just share my truth. I'll just share real.
9:38
I'll just be transparent. When you tuck things away
9:41
forever, it's hard to know what truth actually is.
9:45
I can think of an experience from one guy and he, he ended up
9:49
1D day hit and the crap hit the fan for them.
9:52
He wrote on a document everything that he thought that
9:55
mattered. And it was all the big stuff.
9:57
The way he thought was the big stuff, the big heavy things, the
10:01
things that he thought would end the relationship, that if she
10:04
could accept, they could go on. And he, he did something he'd
10:09
never done before and he shared stuff that he'd never shared
10:11
before. And hey, there you go.
10:12
He was pretty sure that she just had to look at that list long
10:15
enough and decide whether to stay or go.
10:17
And he was really surprised by all the follow up questions.
10:21
He wasn't surprised by it. He was.
10:24
He was. Didn't understand matters,
10:26
that's what I see. He didn't understand why it
10:30
matters. So there was a time where he
10:32
listed all the big things and there was and she would come
10:35
with follow up questions. And he said I have about 12 or
10:39
13 months from really big acting out underneath my belt.
10:43
And this happened at the time of disclosure.
10:44
So he's like, I'm I'm good last 12 or 13 months.
10:47
So it's behind me. And in that process, she got
10:51
digging through bank records and found out that he withdraw
10:54
money. And she's like, where is this
10:56
money? Where did it go?
10:57
Where did it come? Well, what happened to it?
11:00
And he's like, well, and he thought, OK, I have good news
11:03
because I didn't act out in a major way with this, but I did
11:06
intend to. And that was that was really,
11:11
really, really hard for her. And he was very confused by
11:14
that. He had no intention to share
11:16
that because he didn't think it mattered, because he didn't act
11:19
out using that money. And it absolutely mattered.
11:24
And truth and transparency for a Full disclosure standpoint, it's
11:28
not impossible. I don't like that word.
11:30
But to give it on my own because I have to use the brain that got
11:34
me here doesn't really work. So yeah.
11:38
Well, as you're talking, several things are coming to my mind and
11:41
I say I appreciate you going in that direction, just getting on
11:44
the same page, right? Like what you're saying there's
11:47
this is according to this particular example, this is
11:50
according to me, what I feel like is really important to help
11:53
bring you up to speed and in reality.
11:55
And she's like, Oh no, no, no, no, I need all of these pieces
11:59
of the puzzle to bring me up to speed in reality.
12:01
And so this going through the process of disclosure brings you
12:06
both on the same page, which is you have to get on the same page
12:09
if you want to have like healing and and repair in the
12:12
relationship. The other thing that you said,
12:14
learning how to tell the truth. And I would say it is also
12:19
process for most of my betrayed partners to learn how to hear
12:22
the truth. And that is also really, really
12:27
challenging to do on your own. And so having someone to help
12:31
you hear the truth. And that's where these questions
12:34
come into play as well. Like, again, we're going to go
12:37
into more detail with specifics as we walk further along this
12:40
this journey of disclosure. But one of the things is I will,
12:44
when I'm working with the trade partner, help them come up with
12:47
those questions. And like you're saying, this one
12:51
particular client, she's like, I have all these other questions
12:54
like, but how many times, Alana, have you worked with a betrayed
12:57
partner too? Where they start off with like
13:00
I, I don't, I don't know what to ask.
13:02
What do I, what do I need to know what.
13:04
So I think learning how to hear truth is also really challenging
13:08
part of the process in this. Well, and not just hear the
13:12
truth, but working through the fight, flight and freeze and the
13:16
emotional regulation because trauma completely dysregulates
13:21
you. And somebody who prior to trauma
13:24
was able to stay emotionally regulated may find themselves
13:27
the littlest piece of information sending them over
13:31
the top because their whole system has been so hijacked.
13:35
So even having that support system in place, preparing to
13:40
hear the information, working on this, the body and the somatic
13:44
healing. So not just learning to listen
13:46
to it, but preparing the body for the experience it's going to
13:50
have of hearing truth 100%. Well, and I think what comes to
13:54
mind is the, the what can't happen unless the Full
13:59
disclosure happens. When there's transparency,
14:01
there's truth and reality set in play is what I think what we all
14:06
want is the new meaning, the new assigned meaning to the behavior
14:10
and of the circumstance, which is the, and that's the
14:13
relational piece. You can't get that till you have
14:15
truth and transparency, which is the OK, I get the root.
14:20
I understand it. I've asked my questions and now
14:23
we get a chance to build the actual meeting around that, then
14:26
the the perceived meeting. So we've just said this many
14:29
times, but another really important reason for full
14:33
therapeutic disclosure is safety.
14:35
Can we just, I know we throw this word out there a lot.
14:38
And Luke, I would imagine as you work specifically with betraying
14:42
partners, this word also I think sometimes is challenging for
14:48
them to understand. Would you mind just speaking to
14:50
this piece? Yeah, reasons to have is because
14:55
that safety piece, we're going to talk about safety more for
14:58
both, for one or the other of the partner or the betrayed.
15:02
Well, I think I would love for you to maybe speak to why this
15:06
is part of giving the betrayed partner safety, a sense of
15:11
safety by doing this disclosure. Because a lot of things, the
15:14
betrayed, the betraying partner doesn't see it this way.
15:19
They have a hard time putting this piece together I find.
15:21
Well, in a lot of times they hear the word safety and they're
15:23
like, I'm not hitting my partner.
15:25
What do you? Yeah.
15:26
Yeah, that's what I mean. Like break this down to like,
15:28
what are we really talking about here with the word safety?
15:31
Yeah, the two things come in mind.
15:32
And the first thing that comes to my mind is what creates
15:35
safety pretty quickly is just the, the new, the new pattern
15:39
breaking the old pattern of doing something different.
15:41
And you stay in that person starts to show up in ways they
15:44
never showed up before by giving information they've never given
15:46
in a different way. So that creates safety by just
15:49
actually showing up and doing the work.
15:51
The other part that went to my mind immediately was that
15:53
creates safety. The person that did the
15:56
betraying, they stop catering and just focusing on their
16:01
partner who's hurt. And that makes sense why they
16:03
are because they don't because of the pain.
16:06
And they go, OK, what are we actually doing here?
16:08
What does safety need to look like?
16:10
And it's not about what the the partner saying now, it's about
16:13
what do I need? And I need a based upon my
16:16
history. And now I can create safety for
16:18
myself and which in turn creates it for my partner.
16:22
Well, I love that because it goes back to what are you had
16:25
said. I feel like right out of the
16:27
gate in episode 1 was I want to misquote you.
16:30
It was really good. It was their willingness.
16:32
It's the first step. Am I willing to change?
16:34
Am I willing to do something different?
16:38
It was a really beautiful. You had different words than
16:41
that. But anyways.
16:42
Yeah, their, their their willingness to engage in the
16:45
experience shows their readiness for change.
16:47
Is that what you're talking about?
16:49
I'm not. I haven't been betrayed, so I
16:51
can't speak to this. I can only just pay attention to
16:54
the experiences that I've had in my own life and the people that
16:58
I work with. But you have somebody who's hid
17:02
their entire experience and they only get caught and they do
17:08
something different and they start showing up proactively
17:12
with additional information. That's that's different, right?
17:16
So that has to do something psychologically for another
17:19
person's brain, right? It has to show different.
17:22
I'm not saying use that as an A manipulation tactic.
17:25
You're going to get what you want.
17:26
But if I'm used to, if I'm the person that got hurt, that was
17:31
betrayed and all I get is, is all I've experienced in my life
17:35
is catching them, catching them, catching them.
17:38
And all of a sudden I have somebody showing up in my world
17:41
going, let me give you information, let me tell you why
17:45
that actually occurred. I mean that's it seems to make
17:49
so much sense to me why that creates safety right away, not
17:52
all the safety. I want to say yes to that so
17:55
much and a reminder and a disclaimer that the fall
18:00
disclosure process is a process and it is the beginning of truth
18:06
telling that we'll continue moving forward or needs to
18:08
continue moving forward. Because like we mentioned last
18:12
week, I see unfortunately too often is the partner who's
18:17
betrayed is like, OK, I'm going to do this really brief thing.
18:20
I'm going to jump off the bridge and jump into the cold water and
18:23
do this hard thing. And then they want to dry off
18:25
and be done and go, OK, we did the hard thing.
18:27
Now we're done. And it is a big leap and we have
18:32
to keep continuing in doing the work.
18:36
It's a tool for the readiness. It's the tool for the readiness
18:40
have changed. That's how you phrased it.
18:43
And so that's to what you were saying Alana like yeah, it's I'm
18:46
ready and then change is a process.
18:49
It's not a done. It's not a look at me.
18:52
I did a Full disclosure so I'm changed.
18:55
And I'm thinking about the people that we've been around,
18:58
the brave people that we've been around doing full disclosures.
19:00
And it is, it is a hard experience.
19:03
And they get through that monumental piece.
19:05
And I'll speak mostly the person of betraying like I did it.
19:08
And then there's this realization of, OK, now I show
19:11
myself I can give truth. So now I'm going to continue to
19:14
do truth and continue to exercise that muscle over and
19:18
over and over again. All right, to the next one.
19:21
And I think it just goes in with what we've been talking a lot
19:24
about. But I like the way that this is
19:25
phrased and it's just putting the story gap together for the
19:29
betrayed partner. So the pieces that just got blew
19:33
up exploded. A lot of times we're scrambling
19:36
on the floor trying to find all the missing pieces to this
19:38
puzzle. And giving a Full disclosure
19:40
helps put those pieces together where the betrayed partner isn't
19:43
scrambling trying to put them together.
19:45
And I just really want to hold space for those, especially a
19:49
lot of my women that I work with that will never get those pieces
19:53
from their partner. I know this is part of my story
19:56
is that I didn't have a partner give me pieces.
19:58
And I really want to caveat this one too.
20:00
It's like, yes, this is helpful. This is, you're right, this is
20:04
relational. And if for whatever reason we're
20:07
going to go into reasons why not.
20:08
And if this doesn't happen for you, I just want to say that
20:12
like you can still find healing and peace if your partner
20:15
doesn't do this for you. I know it's important.
20:18
It would be so fantastic. This one just for me, resonates
20:23
in a different way where I know I didn't get that.
20:26
This whole series is why this is important, but this one right
20:30
here y'all. If this doesn't happen, you can
20:34
still get healing and put your truth to the story together and
20:39
I promise it can be enough. So there's my little caveat with
20:42
that one, but having a disclosure helps put the story
20:45
gaps together for your partner. It's really interesting watching
20:49
because when a partner puts their general history down on a
20:53
piece of paper and then they go into the Full disclosure and
20:56
they're hearing it in a timeline and they're going, they're
21:00
matching up. Oh, this happened around the
21:03
time I had this baby. Oh, this happened when you were
21:06
working at that place and I was doing this.
21:08
Oh, and they're able to take their reality as they know it,
21:13
and then these new pieces of information and it gets put into
21:16
their reality and the story gaps.
21:21
Getting those little puzzle pieces.
21:24
What it does to the nervous system to just no one understand
21:27
more is truly healing. Yeah, if you want to stay in the
21:32
relationship, This is why I don't know how you would do it
21:35
without it. I've been able to move on and
21:37
heal without it, but I'm not in the relationship.
21:39
So if you want to salvage and stay in this relationship, then
21:42
this is important to have those pieces together.
21:44
As a side note, I'll just plug Amy, you need to do this is
21:48
she's been talking about this forever, doing the closure
21:51
without disclosure course because you can have closure
21:57
without disclosure for those of you who do not have this
22:00
opportunity because doing a Full disclosure takes two people who
22:04
are willing to engage in the process.
22:06
Yep, Yep, OK, which the next one is.
22:10
It reduces obsessive thinking and assuming.
22:16
I think this is such an important one because your brain
22:19
as a betrayed partner is going to go hog wild.
22:22
And I think there can be a lot of over assuming under assuming,
22:28
obsessive thinking, intrusive thoughts, when like we've been
22:32
talking about, you don't have the truth and the pieces of
22:34
reality. Your brain naturally, like by
22:36
design is going to be doing this.
22:38
And so to calm that down, having a Full disclosure can help.
22:41
And it reduces, not removes. I wish it removed but.
22:45
Reduces. Yeah, OK.
22:48
The next one is it brings the reality to both partners.
22:50
I think we already touched on this a little bit bringing with
22:54
a comment you made, Luke, around getting on the same page, just
22:57
being on the same page. And I think where this one came
23:00
to mind too is in the stage of the multi dimensional partner
23:04
trauma model where we can't grieve what we don't know.
23:08
We can't move into that next stage of grieving what we've now
23:12
understand we really lost. And part of the healing as a
23:15
couple is also grieving a shared story.
23:18
Bringing both partners to reality of the story so that we
23:22
can then grieve the story is part of what this can give.
23:26
Well, and Luke, when you're working with partners who have
23:29
betrayed, what I noticed is even the person who had all the
23:35
information rarely has sat down to like lay it out and to look
23:40
at it and to notice patterns and see how it's trying to connect
23:43
it to childhood. So it it brings them into a
23:46
different level of reality and awareness.
23:49
Yeah, and I would say the biggest thing that they notice
23:52
it will, as I watch the betrayed sit there in that room and
23:57
reflect and ask questions about the story.
24:01
It it fascinates me how I can see her, breathe through that
24:06
experience of, OK, there's truth now that makes sense, baby
24:10
infidelity, job loss, But whatever it is the story, it
24:14
fits now. And I see that experience or her
24:18
and they are the person of the betraying in that experience.
24:22
They're just like a cluster. Their mind is just fried because
24:27
what a Full disclosure gives them that they get the clarity
24:30
on is here's my choices and here's me and they get that
24:33
separation. That's the clarity that they
24:36
get. And I would say the shared story
24:39
happens more after the disclosure with a continuation
24:43
of the work for him. He gets a chance to go, oh, I'm
24:47
not my choices. And then the shared story comes
24:50
with the continued work after that point.
24:53
Yeah. I like that.
24:54
The other really big piece is to what you're saying there, Luke,
24:57
is the accountability, being accountable of those choices
25:00
that the betrayed partner has made.
25:03
And there is something I think equally healing around the
25:07
betrayed partner, seeing that accountability, hearing it,
25:12
taking ownership of it in that in the way that that we set that
25:17
up in person and we have that whole room even structured.
25:22
We'll get into more of how we do that, but like the way that we
25:24
even structure the room, right is is so much around supporting
25:30
this accountability and receiving that from the betrayed
25:34
partner, receiving that. So accountability piece is huge.
25:39
Yeah, watching them show up and say, hey, here's my behavior.
25:43
This is what I know about it. It's huge.
25:45
Yeah, and hearing them own it, I've had partners say to me
25:49
before and it and it's like this quiet little.
25:52
I don't know if I want a polygraph, but I do want them to
25:56
have a polygraph because I want them to actually like do
25:59
something hard and show me that they're willing to do the hard.
26:02
It's not even the polygraph result and that and Alice and
26:06
the usually it's like almost like a shame thing around that
26:09
or embarrassment of like, I want them to have it, but I don't
26:11
need the answer. I just want to make them do a
26:13
hard thing and I'll validate that because what I'm hearing
26:17
you actually say is I want them to have accountability.
26:20
I want them to stand up and say, yes, I did this and yes, I will
26:23
do the hard things to start to repair and yes, I'll face my
26:27
choices with whoever and whatever I need to do to
26:30
actually allow for real repair to happen.
26:33
So I just validate them that you want accountability and that
26:38
makes sense. And, and, and a lot of times the
26:42
accountability part, it's even distracting for me right now
26:46
because I hear the shame piece coming in with accountability.
26:49
You want me to say that I'm what I messed up like and you want me
26:53
to feel pain over it? That's what the person that hurt
26:56
somebody, the betrayed betrayer is filling in that moment.
27:00
And I, I like to take a little different look at that and go,
27:03
well, it's the difference between getting caught and
27:06
sharing information when you're accountable, when you're
27:10
accountable, what your partner sees as somebody that's ready
27:12
for change and is in the change process and they're ready to go.
27:17
It's not so much that hey, cool, now you get to now we get to
27:20
beat you down for your choices as much as it is.
27:22
I've got somebody with me that's my partner that's ready for
27:25
change, that is in the change process and those are which.
27:29
Makes you feel safe, which makes you want to lean into trust,
27:32
which makes you be more of a yeah.
27:36
So really ultimately before moving to like the why not, why
27:39
you wouldn't do this just a little bit less on those the
27:42
process. And we keep using this word
27:44
intentionally. The process going through the
27:46
process of disclosure in of itself is like provides even
27:52
additional healing awareness, self-awareness, relational
27:56
awareness. As you go through this.
27:59
It's it's not all about, I will probably say this 100 times
28:03
more. It's not about checking off the
28:04
boxes. When you really each partner is
28:07
stepping into this and leaning in to this process, you will
28:10
find even more additional reasons why you're finding
28:15
personally this to be very healing and helpful for you.
28:19
But the reasons why not, there's just a few, but safety concerns.
28:23
And Alana, can you just talk a little bit about like what we
28:26
would consider safety concerns and where we would be like not
28:29
ready or? No, yeah, I'm always looking for
28:33
if there is any type of abuse or retaliation that will happen.
28:38
And so if the B trade partner is going to have retaliation after
28:43
be punished for getting information, I'm not going to
28:47
put them in a situation that's going to put them in potentially
28:50
a dangerous situation. If there's active emotional
28:54
abuse happening, I am not going to move forward with that.
28:58
The the emotional abuse piece is a little tricky because with
29:03
addiction you get emotional abuse.
29:07
And so there are some levels of that that even as we're trying
29:11
to heal from addiction are residual.
29:13
And there is also more often, not more often, plenty of times
29:20
that I see where there is not just the abuse that comes from
29:25
hiding and lying and secretive, secretive and protecting the
29:28
addiction, but also patterns of domestic violence and emotional
29:33
abuse that is outside of the addiction that I am keenly aware
29:38
of. And if we have that physical
29:40
violence or emotional violence happening, that's beyond just
29:44
the protecting of the addiction, those type of patterns, that's
29:47
not something that we're going to go charging into a Full
29:50
disclosure with a. 100% This is why it's important to do this
29:54
professionally to have people that know what to watch for it
29:58
and look for. I mean, as we've said it before,
30:01
we go through this with a fine tooth comb so that when you are
30:04
receiving truth, it is not coming with a lot of the
30:07
emotional immaturity attached. That's some.
30:10
I will just say too, I do wish that more professionals as a
30:15
whole were trained in domestic violence and emotional abuse,
30:19
but specifically in this range of expertise because it is much
30:25
higher when we have addiction and we have.
30:29
There's a report coming out, it was in the Appsets conference
30:33
last year. I am really embarrassed.
30:34
I can't think of. Yes, Kim told me about it.
30:37
I can see her face. I'll have to add it later, but I
30:40
know. Added to the show notes, but
30:43
there's research coming out that it is much higher to have
30:46
domestic violence when we have the sexual addiction.
30:50
It's much higher than the general population.
30:53
And so I, I do wish and if you were a professional listening to
30:56
this, if you have not done additional training specifically
30:59
on recognizing, seeing, understanding domestic violence
31:03
and emotional abuse, I think that would really benefit.
31:07
I truly see that as the future of our work.
31:10
As a side note, I will plug Sarah Morales and her work on
31:13
gaslighting and her course on gaslighting.
31:15
And she has courses for professionals that you can be
31:19
trained in it. Amy and I have both done it,
31:21
Luke. I want to get all of our team
31:23
doing it because it really does lay a good solid foundation for
31:30
understanding that. 100% yeah. There's things.
31:33
The other reasons why you wouldn't is if you're actively
31:35
divorcing, you're in the process of divorce.
31:38
I've had clients come specifically say, I don't know
31:41
if I need to divorce or want to divorce and I feel like I need
31:44
the Full disclosure to make that decision.
31:48
So I will put if you were in that place of like I'm leaning
31:50
towards divorce, but maybe I'll stay with me.
31:54
I don't know. I'm on the fence that is not
31:57
just, that's different. Yeah, it's not like you have to
32:01
say if you have the disclosure, you can't divorce.
32:03
That is not what I'm saying. It's if my client is in front of
32:06
me, she's like, Oh yeah, I got a lawyer on the side.
32:08
I'm just trying to get the truth and then I'm out.
32:10
No, we're not. We're not doing that.
32:12
OK. The lack of cooperation from one
32:15
or both partners, it just makes it like you said earlier, it
32:18
takes both, both have to choose into it.
32:20
So if one isn't choosing into it, one is dragging their feet
32:23
or resisting or being a pain in the around moving this forward,
32:27
then we would put, we would push, pause and say, OK, hold
32:30
on, time out. We got to re evaluate.
32:31
We're not, we're not pushing this.
32:33
Our job isn't to push it. Our job isn't to make it happen,
32:36
to force any of our clients into it, whether it's the trade or
32:39
the betrayer. So any lack of cooperation from
32:42
both partners would prevent that from happening.
32:45
Not enough sobriety or still actively lying.
32:48
Luke, do you want to just briefly talk about that?
32:50
Yeah, we thought here is and I want to call it not just
32:54
sobriety, but emotional sobriety.
32:57
When we go to that disclosure, we have to do is not be shame
33:02
proof or anything, but we've had to put some space between US and
33:07
the acting out behavior and be able to go I'm so we can go.
33:11
I'm not my choices. You can't separate yourself.
33:13
If you're still making the choices, you're still there,
33:16
which makes it really hard, then you won't be able to be
33:18
emotionally present for your partner, which will be
33:21
absolutely destructive. And so that's the reason why
33:25
there has to be some time there. But just want to recognize that
33:29
it's not. We don't oversimplify that that
33:32
it's that it's we'll, we'll make sure that we understand it
33:35
because we put act or actively lying.
33:39
You have to have a person that's ready for that process.
33:42
We should have said this prior. The type of Full disclosure
33:46
we're talking about is a restorative disclosure.
33:49
There are times that we have done full disclosures where the
33:53
betraying the partner who's being betrayed needs information
33:58
immediately or very quickly for their safety and they need that
34:02
information. And that type of disclosure is
34:07
not what we're talking about here.
34:09
When we're talking about this restorative disclosure that is
34:12
laying the foundation for healing.
34:14
It's laying a foundation for relational and recovery work.
34:18
Then yeah, we need, just like you said, look that time and
34:21
space between the acting out behavior.
34:24
We need to be able to objectively look at it.
34:28
We need to be able to own our truth.
34:31
And there are times that we will do disclosures with just
34:36
information, just an informational disclosure, but it
34:40
is a totally different process and it is very rare that we
34:43
recommend that. Right.
34:44
I'm glad you clarified that because there are all these
34:46
little one offs, unique situations.
34:49
So thank you for clarifying that.
34:51
Can I circle back to one piece that's on my mind, which is
34:55
there was something you said, Alana, which the betrayed
34:59
partner says, I think I I don't know if I need to stay or go.
35:03
I feel like I need a disclosure to make a decision.
35:06
I picture every person that's betrayed that hears that it
35:08
goes. See, she just needs a reason to
35:11
leave, right? And can one or both of you talk
35:15
about how that's not what that means?
35:18
She needs the elastics. She just needs one more really
35:21
good reason to get it out of this situation.
35:23
Most of the time they need reasons to stay.
35:27
Most of the time I see partners of like, just give me reasons to
35:30
stay. They don't want to leave their
35:33
relationship. They don't want to blow up the
35:35
world as they know it. They don't want to disrupt their
35:37
kids life. And so they're saying instead,
35:41
give me the truth, give me understanding, give me reasons
35:46
that show me that I can actually stay with you.
35:50
And the other answer I would say is because I agree with that,
35:53
Alona, is go back and listen to the episode Luke that you and I
35:56
did on your podcast around separation.
35:59
And we touched on a piece of this where I get that fear that
36:02
would come from the partner that betrayed.
36:04
And it goes back to choice, right?
36:07
When you're trying to control your partner's choice of whether
36:11
they they stay or go, that's a problem.
36:15
So I understand the fear. I wish I could, I wish I could
36:19
just like share that and go. Did you, did you hear that
36:22
you're the betrayer? Did you hear that?
36:24
Like trying to find I need a reasons to stay.
36:28
And that's what you said, Alana, in the very, very beginning.
36:31
I can take anything, but I can't take the lies or some some
36:34
version of that. Not a direct quote.
36:36
And that's what this is about true.
36:38
Let. Me just wrap up with some
36:39
excuses that we hear that are maybe re you believe might be a
36:45
reason to not haven't have a disclosure money.
36:49
Can I jump in here? My gosh, I don't know.
36:55
I don't know if it's here's my unfiltered, the unfiltered Luke,
37:00
if you haven't seen it before, here you go.
37:02
I've got all this thing like in my life where if I want it, I
37:06
get it, right? I'd go get it.
37:09
If it's important to me, I make it happen, right?
37:12
And if I don't want it, I I'll give you a really good reason,
37:16
right? I got a really good reason for
37:18
you. And this part with the money and
37:21
it doesn't grow on trees. And I recognize sometimes there
37:24
in in this situation, there just isn't enough to go around, but
37:29
we're talking about one of the most one of the most pivotal
37:34
parts of your entire life, of your entire existence.
37:38
And for the people that go to a place and they go, no, I just, I
37:44
just can't. I like to look at how much that
37:47
that's actually been explored to a be understood and the level
37:51
that goes with it, the level of urgency that goes with it.
37:54
And I think it says a lot about the readiness for change.
37:57
And I feel with all of that, that I would have activated or
38:02
pissed off or frustrated some people that you know and, and I
38:08
don't know which is what I think about.
38:09
What's been really interesting to me is we have had people who
38:13
have really struggled financially.
38:15
There has been more than one occasion where we have sat down
38:18
and said, OK, well let's let's work something out and all of a
38:22
sudden it was a different reason and it wasn't actually the
38:26
money. It's like that obstacle gets
38:28
removed and then there's another reason.
38:30
Then I've also seen people who are like, I have no idea how
38:34
going to make this work, but I'm going to make this work.
38:38
And they do. And so that drive is there.
38:42
It's, it's funny because it's as a professional who I get paid
38:47
for doing full disclosures, it's hard to speak about this.
38:51
And in my own head, it's like, Oh, well, people are just going
38:55
to think I'm wanting to get paid.
38:58
I don't care. Again, where you do the Full
39:00
disclosure if you are getting right treatment.
39:03
But it doesn't change the patterns that I see, right, that
39:07
those who are willing to really invest in themselves and do the
39:11
work. And I'll tell you, a divorce is
39:13
expensive and recovery work is expensive.
39:19
And because of the choices that have been made, unfortunately we
39:23
have to face some really expensive consequences.
39:27
Yeah, my therapist, the very beginning of the journey, he
39:30
said, hey, Luke, I think it was the second session, maybe it was
39:33
the first. He said, we'll be working
39:34
together for five years. And I'm like, whoa, like, that
39:39
was intense. And I love the expectations out
39:42
there of you're in this thing and this is going to be.
39:45
He didn't say this, but I I grabbed it.
39:48
This is going to be expensive. It's going to disrupt
39:50
everything. Your life is going to change.
39:52
Buckle up, right and I I want to negotiate with all this stuff.
39:56
My attic brain wants to negotiate with the money, with
39:59
the time, with the energy, with really true with really just
40:03
change. I don't want to do something
40:06
different and the amount of negotiating that I see with that
40:11
the the reasons that come up in a lot.
40:12
That's why I'm so grateful you say that, which is interesting
40:15
to tell a person, OK, all right, we're not going to charge you
40:19
for that. And and that person go, that's
40:22
person that's not ready for change.
40:24
Is also like, well, there's this other thing too.
40:27
I OK, I'll make this really fast.
40:29
But in a recent therapy session, I was working on some individual
40:34
changing of something. I was like, yeah, I have some
40:37
hesitation making this one change.
40:40
And my therapist goes, yeah, because it would take away your
40:42
excuse. And I was like, I'm sorry.
40:44
Excuse me. Excuse me, what?
40:47
And I was like, OK, I'm going to chew on that.
40:50
I said I don't, I don't like it, but I'm going to chew on it.
40:52
And then the next few weeks, his little voice in my head of,
40:58
yeah, because if you do that type of work, you'll take away
41:00
your excuse. And I saw that over and over and
41:03
over. And I was like, shit, He was
41:06
right that if I made this one change in my life, it would take
41:11
away my excuse for another change I wasn't ready to face
41:14
yet. We as humans are very
41:17
complicated. We're very complex and we have
41:21
to get real with ourselves about what's really going on and
41:25
what's what we really want and what we really don't want and
41:29
then face that and work through it.
41:31
Yeah, Sometimes I wonder if it's just like really simple.
41:35
It's just like just do the thing that scares, scares the shit out
41:39
of you the most. Just do.
41:40
Just do that one. Just pick that.
41:43
Then that's the right thing. So any of these other excuses
41:46
just really quickly of they say already know all of the
41:50
information or the partner who betrays is my partner can't
41:54
handle the truth. And so I'm just it's going to be
41:56
too hard for them. So I don't want to go through
41:59
this like putting it under this idea of like, I'm protecting my
42:03
partner, which no, you're you're self protecting.
42:06
And then it again, that last excuse, it has nothing to
42:09
actually do with my partner. So why tell my partner the
42:13
truth? Those are just some of the
42:15
common, not all those are some of the common things that we
42:17
hear as excuses. And I think if you're
42:21
recognizing, resonating or have heard yourself say them before,
42:24
it's just a good opportunity to pause, reflect, to get get a
42:26
little bit more real with yourself around those excuses
42:30
and almost. Every Full disclosure we've ever
42:32
done, there has been at least one piece of new information.
42:37
Almost every single one. A lot.
42:40
I think that there's tons of new pieces of information in all of
42:45
them. The least I've ever seen is is
42:48
is a lot that doesn't make any sense.
42:50
And but yeah, the ones that are like, oh, that's a little bit
42:53
bigger. Yeah.
42:54
That's the you don't. It says I already know it all.
42:57
That's that's not possible because compartmentalization is
43:00
a play. I guess.
43:02
The only other part, the only one that I just wanted to
43:04
mention was the you already said to Amy.
43:06
But my partner can't handle the truth.
43:08
It will be too hard for them. You don't know how strong they
43:12
are. You don't.
43:13
You don't know. I don't.
43:14
I don't know. Humans are so resilient.
43:19
Do not take that away from them. Do not make that choice for
43:22
them. I one of my friends the other
43:24
day, he was telling me about a run that he went on.
43:28
It was over 100 miles and he got done with that run and he said,
43:31
I think I could have done it faster.
43:34
And I'm like, dude, you got to be happy with yourself that you
43:36
did 100 miles. And he and he wanted to share
43:39
this point with me, which is he's like Luke, I have no idea
43:41
what I'm capable of. I'm capable of so much.
43:45
And I love that he found that for himself.
43:47
And I see often that we take that away from the person that
43:51
we love is whether they're strong enough or not.
43:54
It's not our choice. And part of that, the partner
43:57
who has been betrayed, part of their process is taking the time
44:01
to figure out what they need to know and how much.
44:04
So let them have that autonomy to make those choices for
44:07
themselves. Yeah.
44:11
It's so funny. Here's another episode.
44:13
And we haven't even like gone into the details or specifics of
44:16
what Full disclosure looks like, but really does lay a
44:19
foundation. I will tell you, I already know
44:22
a bunch of these episodes are going.
44:23
I'm going to be sharing with my own clients and hopefully they
44:28
are being beneficial or are beneficial for you.
44:31
Next week we'll jump into the topic of am I ready?
44:35
What does it look like to be ready?
44:37
Also, I'm just going to put a plug, we have AB Trail trauma
44:40
Intensive coming up here in Spanish Fork, UT in October.
44:45
If you are in your healing journey from betrayal and are a
44:49
woman who is looking for having that support and tools, then I
44:53
highly suggest coming and joining myself, Hallie Roderick
44:57
and Laura Fisher for that. So as always, thank you for
45:01
hanging out with us this week. Thank you for learning more
45:04
about full disclosures. And Luke, thank you for joining
45:06
us. We look forward to seeing you
45:08
all next week. Hey, thanks for joining us
45:13
today. If this is something that you
45:14
connected with, I'd love to meet with you more and talk about it.
45:18
So what you can do is go to chooserecoveryservices.com or
45:21
check the show notes and there what we can do is set up a quick
45:24
conversation we need. Thanks so much for listening to
45:27
Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.