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I Know No Other Way - LOTR: An Author's Journey, Bk 4 Ch 3 · Mythmakers

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  Hello and welcome to MythMakers. MythMakers is the podcast of fantasy fans and fantasy
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  creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. My name is Julia Golding and
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  I'm continuing our sidecast series as we read our way through the Lord of the Rings,
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  taking a look at it from an author's point of view. And today we have reached chapter
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  three in book four so that's halfway through the two towers. And this chapter is called
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  the Black Gate is closed. So that really tells you what's going on in this chapter. And
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  I was thinking about what is in fact a relatively short chapter by the standard of the other
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  ones in this book that in terms of its structure it really is hinged around a decision or it
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  leads up in fact to a decision. So it's not a complicated one. They arrive, they discuss,
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  Frodo has a decision to make and that is the structure of the chapter. And it's interesting that
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  Tolkien wanted to separate it out from the previous material crossing the marshes and the
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  materials to come which is when they head off into a Thillion because it is one of those moments
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  on which the quest hangs on the decision of an individual. And so he is highlighting that
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  in the choice of structure. So when you think about this as an author remember the power of your
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  divisions that you can do that you can put something in a separate package so people really focus
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  on it. Okay so let's think about this chapter and the decision that Frodo is taking is actually
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  one of those chapters that starts with a fairly shocking and a bit misleading first line because
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  the first line is before the next day dawned their journey to Mordor was over. And I've mentioned
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  a couple of times that in the original plan as far as he planned Tolkien had thought he was getting
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  near the end. And perhaps it was when he reached the gates and thought hang on a minute it really
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  isn't going to be so easy that you don't just walk into Mordor to borrow the famous
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  Boromir phrase. It's got to be harder. You don't want a story where the sequence of events
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  isn't earned so imagine an alternative where he thinks okay we're at the gates they're going to
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  smuggle themselves in on the end of a line of marching soldiers or in a wagon unpretending
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  to be a barrel of something. You know he he possibly ran all these different scenarios in his
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  mind. I thought no no no if we're going to believe that the bad guy if the dark lord is
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  all powerful it's got to be hard to get close it's got to be hard to get into his land.
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  If his world is too porous then he's not much for a threat is he?
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  So the passage after that gives you a new piece of orientation Tolkien's very good
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  in setting up this imaginary landscape for us and this is the first time we've got close to Mordor
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  so he tells us of the main ranges of mountains he is using words that describe them
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  based in Elvish but and they have a meaning for him but what I find interesting is that he does
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  tell us the meaning but he does gloss it by the descriptors just in front of each of them
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  so he talks about the gloomy range of FL duaff the mountains of shadow so he does translate that
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  but then he goes on to talk about Erid Lithwy, Grae's ash and the Elven sort of
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  syndrome I think it is. I'm not great on Elvish is that idea of ash and then you go inside
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  into places like the sea of Nuren and that holds its idea of sad or bitterness so he's not
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  wanting to keep stop the action to give you his clever language glasses he puts it there in
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  the description so you understand the context so we now know we get to understand there are some
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  roots of Elvish which we see again and again and so we can probably do a bit of guessing ourselves
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  and that is important because we're going to come towards the end of the chapter where an
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  hidden name is actually a massive clue as to what they're going to face next.
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  One of the interesting things about Tolkien and his imagination is his belief that evil is
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  a corruption of the good and you see that in such things like the alt grace but you get it here
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  in terms of the buildings the edge mordor I'm only aware really of there being one structure
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  other than roads in mordor which is built by the Dark Lord which is Baradur but all the other
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  towers are based on Numenorian buildings which were put there to keep watch and were then
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  overrun and turned to evil purposes so what was the defensive move becomes a yes flipped over
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  and that sort of goes with the philosophy about where evil comes from it creates little
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  but corrupts a lot and the descriptors here reinforce that with some telling phrases like
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  none could pass the teeth of mordor and not feel their bite so the the landscape is almost
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  a character here as a very often it is in Tolkien it reminds me quite a lot of the cold war the way
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  this is described many some people listening to this will perhaps not remember that but there was
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  a sense of a line across Europe with these security guards on the borders but you know the
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  Berlin war was being constructed in the 50s so perhaps that's not the right comparison but certainly
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  by the time I was reading it that was the kind of thing I was thinking of that that dangerous space
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  in Berlin between east and west where people would get shot trying to get across it's that feeling
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  of the forbidden landscapes separating sides that he captures very well here full of grim but great
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  detail there's a moment when you get a brass fanfare and he sums it up like this another dreadful day
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  of fear and toil had come to mordor and the night guards were summoned to their dungeons and deep
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  halls and the day guards evil eyeed and fell were marching to their posts so he gives you this
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  sense of a well regulated midcheristic oppressive world which keeps on ticking over every day every
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  dreadful day so once he's painted that we get of course a little bit of Shia grounding where Sam
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  is saying well for the gaffer could see me now he'd say I told he so it does feel as though
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  they've come to a dead end so what are they going to do they're in an impasse and Frodo it
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  refuses really to accept golems and golems view that obviously they can't go any further and this
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  is where Frodo is in some ways that he's very he's most heroic and his face was grim and set but
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  resolute and he follows simple logic I know no other way every time I read this I am I ask
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  myself a question that talking raises later in this chapter which is we never do find out what
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  other way Gandalf might have planned there is no if because he he's shocked when he hears about
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  going through curious angle so what other way was there I don't know that he ever answers it maybe
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  Gandalf never actually in terms of the plot Gandalf never has to say oh well if you follow my plan
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  you know I'd have gone around the back it doesn't seem as though there's an easy answer so Frodo's
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  quite right I know no other way and this actually prompts what I think is probably the best summary
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  of the threat that Sauron poses and surprisingly it's actually from Golem that this comes he says if
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  the Dark Lord gets the ring he'll eat us all if he gets it eat all the world so he wants to consume
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  and destroy and I think it's very vivid and it's simple words simple stakes
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  and then you get the little phrase which is let's past to start but comes back again he says give
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  it meaning the ring back to smegel so what is going on in this I think I don't know but I'm wondering if
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  Tolkien actually knew what was going to happen sometimes as a writer if you don't plan I mean I
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  expect Tolkien knew the ring was going to go into the fire he had a sense of where his ending was
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  going but he didn't know the route to get there and he's probably reached a point here I feel
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  he's reached a point that he has written himself to the edge of what he knows
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  Fiddit Pullman has a phrase about writing into the dark he's in one of those dark moments he
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  doesn't know the next steps so I get the sense that this debate is almost a debate he's having
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  with himself he's hoping the characters will show him away out of it that's my guess that's
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  what I I feel myself when I write things that I meet these moments and this is what I feel here
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  there are obviously earlier versions of this in the papers but I think that it still holds true
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  that when the first drafting of this he was looking for that chink of light that would show him
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  away forward Frodo is the person who is kind of representing the stuck author should we say he's
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  saying what comes after must come I'm going to go ahead whatever happens Sam is the showing his
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  own heroics by saying that whatever happens he's not going to go alone and within this little
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  group of three Tolkien comes to the realization if anyone is going to come up for an alternative it
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  will have to be smegel golem and he's hinted at it already of course when he talked about maybe she
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  will help which had come in the previous chapter and he is the one has the alternative that is
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  logical isn't it because smegel has come out of Mordor so he will know away back in so he
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  he provides the answer and that's very often when you're writing you'll find that the answer is
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  there amongst the elements you've already assembled you just need to work out which one it is
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  which of the clues it is or which thread it is that you tug that will release that particularly
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  knotted point of the plot the points of view that you get in this chapter are fascinating because you've
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  got largely Sam you get a bit of Frodo and you get a bit of the narrator and Sam is interesting
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  here because he is getting to understand in a very what Tolkien puts down as a slow but
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  shrewd mind he understands the two halves of golem and smegel slinker and stinker and he realises
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  having heard that discussion he's the one who knows that golem's already been plotting that the
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  two halves have reached a truce and a temporary alliance but what's really fascinating is the danger
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  there if you think oh well Sam knows what's going on it would make Frodo look a bit of an idiot
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  in contrast and Tolkien's very clear that that's not the case in fact he underlines that Frodo is
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  he is the officer in this little squad trying to invade Mordor and so he goes to the edge of the
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  little cleft where they're hiding out the del and he's granted a kind of vision of the state of
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  affair as seeing the movements of peoples and he sees it's not the armies of Gondor arriving but
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  it's further allies for the Dark Lord so knowing that knowing he there is no easy way in of course
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  he didn't expect there to be he takes the first step in his decision which is saying smegel I will
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  trust you once more and he goes on with this phrase may the third time prove the best the companion
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  to Lord the Rings points out that this is an old adage which you find in things like
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  so going in the green night so going in the green night the test of so going is the rule of three
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  it's a three times he has to pass a test and it is actually a rule of narrative three times
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  that if you're wondering how many times you attempt something twice that fail and once
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  has succeed it seems to be a pattern which our storytelling brain likes but anyway that has become
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  a sort of saying and Frodo is using it here because they have it's not that Fro not that it's not
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  that Gollum has failed them twice it's more that they have trusted him in small ways twice and he's
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  not failed them so this big gesture of trust is the moment when may it prove the best
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  that's what's going on here if the world were like a sleep number mattress everything would
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  adapt for your comfort because as your life changes and your body changes sleep number mattresses
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  adapt and shift to give you personalized comfort night after night and now it's the final days of
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  everything's on sale event save up to $1200 on mattresses our Memorial Day event ends Monday to
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  experience a whole new world of comfort visit a sleep number store or go to sleep number calm sleep
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  number to a good life sleep but Frodo goes on because occasionally there are these prophetic moments
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  in Lord of the Rings the sense that this world does have a direction a shape a guiding hand and
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  sometimes it's the insight of a character that points the way Aaron's done this, Galadriel's done this
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  Gandalf's done this and Frodo does too because he warns Gollum that he Gollum is the one most
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  at risk because the desire of it that being the ring may betray you to a bitter end
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  and the conclusion there is the kind of mixture of Sam's point of view and the narrator Sam
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  is approving of Frodo's stunness and there's a sort of overall conclusion reached at this point
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  to help us see Frodo as this noble heroic figure which not to mistake his kindness as softness
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  kindness is not blindness is what's put here and I think one of the things that the film did as a
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  disservice to the Frodo character is by casting it so young you miss out on this mature Frodo taking
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  the decisions because of course the Elijah Wood version of this seems so incredibly young
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  is you don't get that sense of leadership and it's quite it's good to do that reset in the brain
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  to think about Frodo and its character and how far he has to fall with the ring
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  from this authority wisdom that he has there's a sense of his maturity and wisdom here in these
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  moments so the column is given a chance to sort of make his case for what they should be doing
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  and he has this connection back to the tales he was told as a young proto-hobitor you know when he
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  was in the smegel and digel phrase of his life with tales out of the south and it's an interesting
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  way to restate the history of Numenor which we may have forgotten by this point because the early
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  discussion of that was way back in fellowship with the ring with Aragorn on the road
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  oh in fact before that it was with Tom Bombardill wasn't it but here it's just summarised again
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  and it's necessary to summarise it because Gollum is giving a context that he's describing
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  but it also gives it's one of those passages that does lots of jobs it reminds us
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  it lays out the land gives us the historical perspective and it also introduces the idea of the
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  fall of the dark lord Sauron and there's this mention of when he lost the ring and Gollum says
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  about there being only four fingers on the black hand this is interesting isn't it because
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  he's kind of disembodied in the eye but yet he's seen in the palantir it's possibly a case where
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  a bit like the black riders where the shape is clothed in things like robes and rings and gloves
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  but anyway so it suggests that Sauron does have a physical body as well as that I never quite
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  work that out in my mind if you know a bit more let me know what you think the answer to that is
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  and then follows a argument mainly between Sam and Gollum and what I think is interesting here is
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  that you can tell that everybody is frustrated none of them want to do this
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  but all of them in the case of yeah all of them have to Frodo and Frodo because he's promised Sam
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  because of his loyalty and Gollum because of his promise to Frodo and it's so one of the things
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  to learn as an author is that sometimes what people are really feeling can be displaced into
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  something that isn't directly about that so rather than say Sam is really miffed about it
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  you actually do it through how he's reacting in this argument and you very clearly get a sense
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  of where they all stand on their current situation because they're so techy so grumpy so
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  the Sam is recognizes he's not being fair to Gollum why did you bring us this way then
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  wasn't Gollum's fault but he feels that and he's also pushing back there is no easy answer but he's
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  saying even the answer that Gollum is giving sounds too easy he's correct of course he's correct
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  but then what are they supposed to do but we get the hints that all is not well remember in the
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  previous chapter Sam had to notice the green and the pale light we get a glimpse of the green
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  gleam when the question is asked is it guarded and a second reading you know exactly why the green
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  gleam is flashing but first reading we're thinking ah ah that's a danger sign there is some kind
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  of guard there and Gollum also shows here another sort of foreshadowing of what later happens
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  is how he twists an order to suit his purposes another reason to distrust him of course
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  which both Frodo and Sam are well aware of because he says he was given an order when he left
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  more door to seek the precious but he goes on to say but not for the black one I didn't do it for him
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  so we see how he can take the words and and twist them to his own purposes
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  so Frodo of course is in this in video's position where he's well aware of all these doubts but
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  he's still got to make a decision and there's a good summing up of this
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  which lays this all out I read it because it's worth this is the this is what the action is in the
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  chapter it's the decision that comes after realizing all of the uncertainties facing him Frodo felt
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  a strange certainty that in this matter Gollum was for once not so far from the truth as might be
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  suspected that he had somehow found a way out of more door and at least believed that it was by
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  his own cunning for one thing he noted that Gollum used I and that seemed usually to be a sign
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  on its rare appearances that some remnants of old truth and sincerity were for the moment on top
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  but even if Gollum could be trusted on this point Frodo did not forget the wiles of the enemy
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  the escape may have been allowed or arranged and well known in the dark tower
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  and in any case Gollum was plainly keeping a good deal back this is where the book feels more like
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  a spy thriller a kind of John LaCarrie almost if you think of Gollum he is a spy but what rich
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  side is he working on does he know the full agenda that his masters has for him knowing what he
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  might do so it's it's a fascinating psychology involving both Frodo analyzing how to trust or not
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  trust what Gollum says plus what Gollum knows and what he doesn't know and what he's hiding
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  so when they push Gollum he does not name Curith Angle the translation of Curith Angle is spider
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  cleft but the narrator does gloss that for us and it's notable that at this moment when the narrator
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  is stepping in so the hobbits writing about this in the future of course is one of the explanations
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  for this backward looking explanation is it is a moment to connect it to the other narrative which
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  we've just left and it's the one moment in this chapter where Gandalf is most present Frodo
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  doesn't know Gandalf has survived but we're connected here to the moment when the plant here is
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  thrown out of the window of or thank so here we again it's these moments so if you unpack it you're
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  doing lots of things you're saying this is where we are in the two narratives that's how far
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  those lot have got this is what's at stake over there but they are in terms of Gandalf always thinking
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  about Frodo and really Gandalf is very present in this last section as Frodo makes up his mind
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  even with this little dream he has of him writing on a army of oliphants he stays with Frodo
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  and the narrator describes Gandalf thinking about Frodo always with hope and pity which are really
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  the the chief values in Lord the Rings hope and pity and love of course and then there's one of
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  those beautiful little sentences of the small person up against the massive odds Frodo is fully
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  aware of how inadequate he is to the task when you have a hero he shouldn't well the ancient
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  Greeks used to have people like Hercules we have I suppose superheroes but superheroes are
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  only interesting when there's kryptonite around there is no need for kryptonite with a halfling
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  because they're already got the odds set against them we need to have a feeling that they cannot do
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  this easily and here he was a little halfling from the Shire a simple hobbit of the quiet countryside
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  expected to find a way where the great ones could not go or dare not go remember we're on the same
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  doorstep of Mordor which is where all that arrogant can do in a few days a few weeks time is March
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  up blowing his trumpets pretending to attack one of the great ones they can't get in it has to be
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  the little person who does and what we get as we run up to this decision which is the
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  the seesaw moment in the adventure we go from we're gonna go in by the gate to we're gonna try
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  this other way and the decision is the action but we get a moment of prolonged stillness
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  we get an overflight of an eagle looking down or an imagined eagle we see the characters from above
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  the small characters hidden in the landscape and then following that the black riders
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  overfly altitude and the stillness is very powerful it's underlining that it's like when you get
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  those talent shows for example where they're giving a verdict and they run on with the drum
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  beat saying and the answer is and that keeps going you you suspend the decision point so much
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  to build the tension in a quieter way this is what's going here so again when you're writing if
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  you've got some moment where someone's declaring or deciding something don't rush your fence
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  spend the time to make it work and Frodo in fact has a couple of things which helps him shift
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  first is the arrival of the men of the south they are described very much like an Ottoman army or
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  a crusading as in a Islamic crusading army how they would be described in a medieval world or a
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  drawn in a medieval manuscript with their gold rings and their dark eyes and so on and colorful
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  coming from the south and adding to the idea of what it seems as an exotic to the northern kingdoms
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  is Sam's thought that okay if they're men from the south maybe they've got olyphons with them
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  here we are very much in a medieval world because an olyphant is an old word for an elephant
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  elephants appear in strange and wonderful forms in medieval vestuaries because people didn't
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  know what they actually were like and his poem reflects that it's the sort of I haven't seen
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  this thing but this is what I think they're like including such nonsense ideas that they never lie
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  on the ground or even to die it's that idea of the imperfect knowledge of something you're hearing
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  about in a kind of Chinese whispers game where it goes from person to person you never quite know
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  and you see that Sam is curious he wants to know if there's an olyphance and golem really isn't
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  that's another difference in their character but Sam's openness and excitement about the world
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  and his recitation of what is a shire poem in this most unshirelike unfunny situation is what prompts
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  laughter and laughter is said it released him from his hesitation the shire and Sam helps him make
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  the decision and he goes back to the idea which is how he started in this conversation that trusting
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  golem for a third time will hopefully produce the way into more door that he requires
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  and golem gets the last word in this chapter he says soft and quick as shadows we must be
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  so it ends in uncertainty but we have moved on we have made the decision we are progressing
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  so we started having been told we arrive and now we've been told actually there's a long way
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  not much further to go because the way is shut you can't go in that way and so the stillness is
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  broken and they move on into one of my favourite chapters because they're going to reach a
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  Thillion which is going to be a green breath of fresh air after the dust and the ashes and the
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  marshes that we've been spending and the rocks that we spent the last three chapters lingering in
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  thank you very much for listening
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  if the world were like a sleep number mattress everything would adapt for your comfort
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  because as your life changes and your body changes sleep number mattresses adapt and shift to
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  give you personalized comfort night after night and now it's the final days of our everythings
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  on sale event save up to twelve hundred dollars on mattresses our memorial day event ends Monday
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  to experience a whole new world of comfort visit a sleep number store or go to sleepnumber.com
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  sleep number to a good life sleep